February 17, 2022 • 37 mins
"This week DK & LF discuss the implications of Coach Brian Flores' lawsuit against the NFL for alleged racial discrimination on the fight for racial equity and labor rights more broadly."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You are listening and waiting on reparations a production of
I Heart Radio, Yo Yo Yo. What's good people, I'm
dope knife, I'm with Franca and you are listening to
waiting on reparations? Are you doing? Oh, I'm good, I'm good. Yeah.
I have a working, hard working smart trying to at
(00:24):
least take a little dance breaks posting them on TikTok. Oh,
where'd you've been. You've been doing the TikTok TikTok a
little bit. It's been kind of fun. I don't know.
It's just like it's been fun to do silly little
like oh no, like a little mini plays in my
kitchen when the baby sleep, taking a little breaks from
work with just you know, I forgot I have dance moves.
(00:44):
I am a good dancer. I am and so I've
been doing a little dudle dance sixtoks. But like I was, ship,
I gotta like that. I still I have a TikTok account.
I've been like I've been flirting with the idea of
like just posting up versus like like everything that a
little bit too fun. It's just like I don't know why.
It's like I think I just need to go ahead
and do it. I think I've been getting too carried
away about one of those round white light things and
(01:07):
it's like it's a pain in the ask to set up.
I'm like, man, no, no, I should be blurry as
hill like it's not it's really not that so all
like that. So well. I well, speaking of breaks, I
took a little break this past weekend. I went on
a little vac down to Florida just you know, hung
out some people's and watched the Super Bowl. Did you
(01:28):
get to see the Super Bowl? I literally so. One
of my fellow commissioners shoutouts to Russell Edwards texted me
in the just like out of the blue, he said, Fitty,
and I was like, what is he talking about? Um?
I assumed it was football related because I had had
to get off Twitter that night because all everybody's time
was football. It was like I don't I don't sport.
I don't do it. But then he was like, yeah,
(01:50):
you've missed the halftime show. It's like Kendrick and Dr Dre.
And I was like, well, it was the first ever
all hip hop headline super Bowl halftime show, so I
saw it was pretty cool, you know, I mean it
was like a bunch of legacies. It was all legacy acts.
You know. You had Snoop, Dr Dre, Eminem, Mary J. Blige,
(02:12):
like you said, the cameo by fifty and then we
had Anderson Pack in the bags playing the drums. I
was pretty cute. Was his little thing caught me. It
was like, you know when he was doing um I
and he was like and we hey, yeah, I want
to kill us dad in the Street Bump show. I
was like, what did you hear about the Okay? So
(02:34):
there was some dust up before, right at least for
as much, you know, as reliably as you could go
on like Twitter stories and Twitter drama and stuff. But
so the word was a couple of hours before the
Super Bowl that and Eminem had planned to kneel and
that the NFL had told him, you know, explicitly, you know,
you can't do that. And then Dr Dre wanted to
(02:57):
split the line, still not loving police and still Dre
and the NFL told him that you couldn't do that,
and both things happened. So that was so Kendrick was
the one that kind of like bowed to that. I
don't want to say he bowed but you know, I
mean em and EV and DR to be honest with you,
(03:19):
like that was like while because I had been I was,
you know, reading ship on Twitter while the game was
going on, so I was like letting everybody I was
in the room with know about that whole thing. So
when we were actually watching the halftime performance and Eminem Neil,
that was like the biggest pop or reaction that anybody
that the whole game got. You know, we were like
(03:42):
the NFL later on declared that they knew that Eminem
was gonna do it and stuff like that. I don't
know about that. I'm just gonna imagine the Eminem just
said fuck y'all or said I don't give a fucking yeah,
that's cool. And you know, two things come to mind.
For one, you know that at first it's like, well
they had like cops feel in districts with people like
two summers ago whatever, like to kneel these days has
(04:05):
become such a watered down act. But when you also
consider the context of within the NFL as well as
like what Colin Kaepernick has gone on to do with
like creating you know, Kaepernick Publishing, and now they're putting
out all this like radical, you know, like black feminist
and like abolitionist like writings and essays and stuff. It's like,
you know, if you're drawing attention back to him in
(04:26):
the context in which he was sort of radicalized and
like marginalized politically at first, which then caused him to
game this larger political platform. It's a pretty dope thing.
I appreciate he did that. I appreciate eminem give a
shine to the you know, like yeah, and I mean
in this day and age, when you've got like massive
media figures like given motherfucker's the green light to say
(04:48):
the N word and ship, I'll take a superficial kneeling gesture.
You know, I'm not mad at that. Let's not yeah
at all. But speaking of the NFL, guess that's a
good idea. It wasn't even planned in that look at
that freestyle in the show, But that's a good transition
because today what we're going to talk about is these
(05:08):
uh class action lawsuit that's been taken against the NFL
by the former Miami Dolphins head coach Brian Flores. So
just to give you a little recap of it, So
Black History Month kicked off this year with a lawsuit
from Brian Flores. He was suing the NFL and three
of his teams for alleged patterns of racist hiring practices
(05:31):
by the league and racial discrimination. In this class action lawsuit,
the teams involved where the Miami Dolphins, the Denver Broncos,
and the New York Giants. Now there's just one active
African American coach in the NFL going into next season,
and that's Mike Tomlin of the Pittsburgh Steelers. UM. Six
(05:53):
of the nine vacancies leading into this hiring cycle where
all they all went to white men, and the two
of the final three openings went to a first cast
of candidates. So the Texans hired Levy Smith, who's a
veteran coach any black man, and the Dolphins hired Mike McDaniel,
who is multiracial. UM. But both of those hirings came
(06:16):
after Flores issued his lawsuit. So we are I mean,
just your before because you know I'm gonna get your thoughts.
Oh no, let's hit the jump, because I got all right,
we're gonna be We're gonna be back with that and
more after the jump. But we're gonna try to for two.
I'm not necessarily a sports ball sports person, but I
do like basketball. Football is not really my thing. So
(06:39):
for two football novices are going to try to see
if we can dig into this topic or after the jump,
all right, we are back. So if you're just joining us,
re rhyin the goddamn podcast and find out what we're
talking about. Mariah, So what are your initial thoughts on
(07:01):
the situation before we get into some of these facts.
So the the facts arising about this lawsuit and the
change that it has already spurred brings me back to
in my work kind of like um, contemplating the value
of lawsuits generally, because there's a lot of things that
the city attorneys like plead with us not to do.
(07:22):
That sometimes we will do anyway, because even if we
get suited, it raises an important issue. And even through
threats of legal action, you can force people. On the
other hand, you can through that's a legal action, you
can get people to do all kinds of things. So,
um thing about Yeah, like in the terrain of organizing
all the tools we have at our disposal, getting folks elected,
(07:44):
marching the streets, colony of the congressman, filing lawsuits. I
think this this Um, this juncture here kind of underscores
the importance of also like using the law against the system,
where it's like, yeah, I mean, I don't know if
he's gonna win this lawsuit, but already they hired like
two black, you know, diverse um football coaches and so
(08:06):
like there you go. Well, I mean even some of
that might be a little I mean, we'll we'll get
into you know, some of the history of of the
NFL's coach hiring in a little bit. But even some
of that might not even be adequate with not certainly
not yes, yeah, not at all to say that whatsoever.
(08:26):
But it's interesting what you can get them to do,
like to start nudging them in the right direction. And
like so like, um, for someone who like I mean
you're out of all the people who I know in
my life, you're like probably like one of the few
people who I know personally that it's like, oh, this
like Marie on some revolutionary ships, you know what I'm saying, Like,
(08:49):
like she's actually out there like like doing the work
and stuff. So for someone like you, who I consider
her to be or or like more on the revolutionary tip,
is there any sort of is there any sort of
like paradox created by like using the system to fight
the system. I mean, I think we have to. I mean,
(09:10):
there's arguments on either side. He looked. There's a lot
of people out here that are like, we have organized
totally separate from the state. We gotta do mutual aid,
we gotta like, you know, build up for the revolution
whatever whatever. You got people in the middle that see that,
you know, have a more militant vent or like, oh,
let's march in the street and get our asked bet
by the cop and you know, dota at it up.
(09:31):
And then you got folks that like fully just focus
on what you can do within the system, etcetera. And
I've seen in my time a tendency among organizers to
like be purists about their way of doing things. And
I get it. You you know, you commit your heart
to something because you think it's the right thing. But
like I try and my work try to like not
prescribe what is the best way to do it. I've seen,
(09:52):
you know, I've advocated for getting people elected and then
I've been elected and seen that like it is somewhat
limiting and um, ETCeteras. I've seen organizations that are like
trying to like do abolitionist work outside of like the state, Like, oh,
we don't even wanted to fund the police. We're going
to create our whole own like systems of safety and accountability.
(10:12):
And then they won't like they can't get any money
to do it because it's all it's all like state
grants or whatever, and so they're hampered because they don't
have any money. So I'm just all for a directory
of tactics whatever, you know, just like I'm not gonna
tell you what you should and shouldn't do. I'm not
gonna be like, oh, following the lawsuit doesn't really changed it.
Like you and our kids out here with your you know,
(10:34):
super kitchen, Like do your change? Do you think like
it's none of my business what y'all up to, Like
the same sort of thing that we're just saying about
Eminem and the kneeling. It's like at this point, like
any gesture helps, you know, So right, if it's gonna
like get someone to like google calling Kaepernick again like
I was saying in the intro, and then they're like, oh,
he started a publishing company and they stumble upon like
(10:56):
essays by Derek Parnell or whatever, Like that's kind of cool.
And I mean anybody anybody who wants to like point
towards like another like lane of attacks that's different from
a lawsuit. Then by all means you know what I'm saying,
like point it out or go do it, you know,
but like don't hate on anybody else's trategy. And there's
already there's already precedent in you know, going back to
(11:18):
once again where um basketball players started striking and like
refusing to play right, and so there's a labor organizing
tactic have been having been used in sports. Now we're
trying out lawsuits like who knows, who knows what's next.
I'm excited to see, like if people are really serious
about this and they don't just sort of succumb to meager,
(11:41):
succome to meager like like oh, you know headpaths as
as you know, solutions and justice. I don't know, let's
see you let's see what they try next. I don't know.
So I'm sorry, I heard you all. Now you're doing okay.
So per NFL dot Com, only five of the last
thirty six head coaching openings gone to black men. This
(12:05):
is an unacceptable quote unquote reality as said by the
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, who acknowledged that who acknowledged those
four days after the league had said of Flores's claims
were without merit. Now, Goodell was asked about the discrepancy
between the two comments, and he said, it's a good question,
which I've asked our office. He's a it's a good
(12:27):
question which in our office, and we've talked about it.
I think the initial reaction was regarding the legal claims
themselves and not really what we would say the experience
of what coach Flores was going through. And that's what
and that's what the most colorful, flavorful word salad I've
(12:48):
ever seen. And that's what and then he Goodal continues,
and that's what I'm more interested in. I put the
legal claims in the legal process to the side, and
that will be handled by lawyers. To me, it's more
important for us to lawyers. Goodell, who's for me, It's
more important people you hired to sort of listen to
Flora's and understand what he and other coaches are going through.
(13:09):
I'm sorry, just wanted to get the brazen contradiction. So
let's and I mean, yeah, just just Florid, just before
you let the commissioner have it. Let's just let's just
go through some of the facts about the NFL right
now in this particular issue. So the workforce, which by
(13:33):
this you know what we're going to say, the players
of the workforce. Obviously there's way more people that go
into making a team a team, YadA, YadA. But of
the players, the player workforce sev black. The assistant coaches
who that is drawn from the players that's black. Then
currently we have two black head coaches. I only say
(13:56):
too black because the third guy is listed as multiracial
and not as black. So we have two black head
coaches and zero black owners and there are thirty two teams. Mariah.
So look the fact you brought up an interesting point
to start with the black player who work force, because um,
(14:19):
I am curious because this is even this suit is
even brought about by like the mid tier person, right,
like a like a t like a what Brian Flores
was a head coach. He was a head coach this
past he was a head coach, right, So he's not
a team owner. He's not like a shareholder or something.
He's like kind of like a middle management from in
(14:40):
the grand. In the grand, the coaches are management, but
they're definitely in this for in terms of this discussion
their labor, their labor right right. They don't run the internet,
they don't own the team you have steaks in it
or anything like that. I think this is very echoes
in many ways what we see sometimes and like like
larger labor organizing movements. Okay, take for example, what's going
(15:04):
on with Starbucks right now, Like you know, the first
Starbucks unionized in December, like ever since then, like a
thousand workers at Starbucks across the country have filed for
having union elections. It's like the what the the wild
fiery is the spreading is like labor movement in recent history, right,
But you think about the kinds of peoples that Starbucks
(15:25):
wants to hire to manage their image is like very
like forward thinking liberal kind of thing. They're hiring a
lot of like college grads. They're calling on a lot
of artists, a lot of people that you know, identify
with like the Black Lives Matter movement. So these aren't
the like I mean, this is not I'm not too
like paying you know, a blanket picture of everything. I'm
(15:47):
sure there's a lot of diversity in their workforce. But
you know this, this isn't like the like the hood
nigga's got out of jail that's going to work at
the poultry plant. And like you know, the blue who
who we typically associate with blue collar folks there's tend
to be more educated, etcetera, etcetera. And so those are
the folks that like will advocate for getting there's more
so than the folks at the real about like the
(16:08):
bottom bottom like that really needs like ship so that
like I don't know what the role of the players
is and all this especially and we're not even talking
about the folks that you know, clean the clean, the clean,
the clean, cheerleaders, cheerleaders, mopping the locker room floor. I
think so those people are completely left out of the conversation.
(16:29):
And someone who's like in the middle, like you know,
like you know, has a sense of more has slightly
more privileged than other folks is the one that's coming
for their well. I think that's what makes conversations like
this heart. I think that the reason why it's like
hard for like these sort of like topics too kind
of blow up as being a large labor issues because ultimately,
(16:53):
you know, Brian floor has just got paid like three
million dollars for the season, you know, I mean, ultimately
we're talking about rich trying to get more are of
theirs at the at the end of the day. So
we have to take the conversation with that prism or
that grain in salt or whatever that you know, it's
rich people arguing about themselves, even though there is like
a further you know, racial and economic divide that you
(17:15):
can dig into it. But I want to be clear
though that like true, like economic transformation of this country
is going to require people like Brian Flores to see
themselves as more like the black player workforce and the
janitors mopping the locker room, to realize he's more like
(17:37):
them than the people that really run ship well in
his in his and I don't even know if this
is a defense because you weren't attacking him, but something
that aspect of football that you might not know if
you don't like watch it or if you don't know
like the inner workings of it. This is a huge
sacrifice for him, Like he's most likely ever going to
(17:57):
coach again, you know what I'm saying, That's what I'm
talking about, Yes, we're gonna need people like that to
be willing to sacrifice a little bit in order for
even them get justice, but also the people below them,
you know, so like a lot of people everyone thinks
they're like, what's it like temporarily embarrassed billionaires or whatever,
especially middle class folks who think they are like you know,
(18:20):
or like even upper middle class folks who, let's say,
like Brian Flores, who think they're closer to like Jeff
Bezos than they are to homelessness. But if this is true,
if he loses this lawsuit, can't ever coach again, Like
his life could take a significant turn for the worst,
and that he's actually closer to the folks at the
bottom than he is someone like whoever, like the CEO
(18:41):
of the NFL, I don't even know. That's the thing,
Like he's he's doing this for future generations, Like he's
not going to coach in the even if they win,
even if he wins the lawsuit, he's never going to
coach again, Like they're they're they're not, I mean, And
and through this there's been there's been a lot of
there's a lot of like there's aspect of the story
(19:01):
that's very very much football Insider football ship that we're
not a sports show, so it's like it's not really
you know, I'm not really interested in covering up, but
like you know, the aspects of like them asking him
to throw games and to tank his team and things
like that, that yeah, he's suing on those grounds. But
(19:25):
if like this lawsuit is successful and it ends up
being the end result is that there's more black coaches
and there's more U coaches of color, that's all gonna
be dope. But on his account, like that's what he's
doing it for, because he's not going to be one
of those coaches. The next thing I want to say
is that having more black coaches is cool, but that's
(19:46):
still management, that's still reinforcing the idea that like we
need more black CEOs and like black business owners to
like get free when like at the end of the day,
like the people not on the floor are still going
to be on food stamps or whatever. Like just I
guess in the culture of American football though, is like
(20:09):
black people and this is this is my general sense
again as somebody who football is not my favorite sport,
but like black people in football are very much considered
like workhorses and like laborers. They're not really considered thinkers,
you know what I'm saying. So the aspects, the aspects
of aspects of football that are like cerebral and require
(20:31):
thinking and study and watching tape and stuff like that,
these white billionaire owners don't trust black men in those positions,
you know, I'm saying, like quarterbacks. You know, there was
for the longest time there was a stigma about black
black men camp quarterbacks. Black black still make good quarterbacks.
(20:52):
That's kind of been shattered now. But even in shattering that,
like a lot of those a lot of those stigma
still persis us, you know what I'm saying. And I
don't think that anything like this is really going to
change until the ownership changes. But then again, like I said,
it's like your that argument is an argument for you know,
we need more black billionaires, you know what I mean.
(21:14):
I mean, if the ownership changes, you put more black
people in charge, and they are more um understanding of
the various kinds of like skill and labor and intelligence
that people are putting into all of these positions. Even
if you say, oh, like you know, the players aren't smart,
they're just buff and and like strong or whatever. It's like, well,
it takes a certain kind of like what you could
(21:34):
call like bodily intelligence to know how to like do
a little swivel pirouette around some dude when you're trying
to tackle you, or like line like you know, line
the football up and kick it straight through the like that.
Those that's like very like complicated and underappreciated, like thinking
that has to be done in order to do that,
and so like they are very intelligent and someone who
(21:55):
if you get a black coach in place, you might
you might find somebody who like sees at and recognize
it's like, you know, maybe we need more equity, etcetera.
But it's just but it's not it's not something you
can just assume. You know, I'm not all skin folks,
kin folk, etcetera. So it's not something you just like
as will get better. Is like an insult to injury
in this whole thing. Whereas like you know what, what
(22:18):
uh group of people actually do end up having positions
as head coaches in the NFL, people whose fathers were
coaches in the NFL. So they've got a bit of
a nepotism issue going on within their ranks as well.
That only exacerbates the racial issue. But let's get back
(22:41):
into some of these facts. So, Fritz Pollard, I don't
know if I'm pronouncing that right. Fritz Pollard. Yeah, Fritz
Pollard broke the coaching color barrier back in ninete man.
The early days was an interesting time for naming your children.
I mean, my kid's name may stop Fritz Pollard. But
(23:05):
it took. It took an additional sixty eight years before
Art Shell became the second black man to lead a team. So,
I don't know how many of you all out there
are familiar with something called the Rooney Rule. Are you
familiar with the Rooney rule at all? In terms of
football r I have never heard of that game. Okay,
(23:27):
So the Rooney rule was developed in two thousand three,
two thousand two. So it is the National Football League
policy that requires league teams to interview ethnic minority candidate
for head coaching and senior football operation job. It is
an example of affirmative action, even though there was no
hiring quota or hiring preference given minorities. It's only an
(23:47):
interviewing quota. It was created in two as it was
created as a reaction to the two thousand two firings
of head coach Tony Dungee of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
and Dennis Green of the Minnesota Vikings, but with black
at the time when Dungee had a winning record and
Green had just had his first losing season in ten years.
Shortly afterwards, US civil rights attorney Cyrus Marie and Johnny
(24:14):
Cochrane released a study showing black head coaches, despite winning
at a higher percentage of games, were less likely to
be hired and more likely to be fired than their
white counterparts. Former NFL players Kelly Kellyn, will Wilson, and
John Wotton. Oh Sorry, Former NFL players Kellen Winslow and
John Wotton then put together an infinity group of minority scouts, coaches,
(24:39):
and front office personnelity to advocate for rules creation. Its
purpose was to ensure that minority coaches, especially African Americans,
would be considered for high level coaching positions. Now dig this.
At the time that the Rooney Rule was installed, there
were four black head coaches in the NFL, and they
(25:00):
aim that to be a problem that they created the
Ruoney Rule. In two before this lawsuit, there was one
head coach, one black head coach. Oh my god. So
clearly this is operating brilliantly. So we've regressed the rule
obviously didn't work. Thoughts on that love that for us? Well,
(25:23):
I mean, first of all, I think it's really cool
that they did have sort of like a collective organizing
project of getting together the scouts, these front office personnel
to make a demand, you know, to like ask them
to make things better. But I mean, ultimately it does
seem like it was a superficially measure. I don't mean,
I don't I don't mean to cut you off, but
there's some context I need to give you about black
(25:44):
Brian Flowers his lawsuit all right, Okay, So one of
the things that he's that he alleges in his lawsuit
is that the Rooney rule is like a sham and
it's a charade. Like they do. They do like the whole,
you know, the whole, the whole, all the tricks, the
smoking mirrors, and they do these interviews, but at the
end of the day, they don't have any intention of
(26:07):
hiring these black closers are the diverse coaches that they're seeing,
so they're not even coming into the interview process with
a fair shake. One of the things. One of the
examples was, so, you know you've heard the famous coach
Bill Belichick. You've heard that name. Okay, So, Brian Flores
was an assistant coach, I believe, underneath Bill Belichick. So
(26:27):
when uh, Brian Flores and another coach who also was
an assistant under Bill Belichick, they were both vuying for
the same job, and Bill Belichick hit up Brian Flores
congratulating him for the job. Yeah, I thought he was
texting the other dude. I did hear about like four
or five days before it was announced that other dude
(26:48):
got the job. Bro, what people trying to say, Oh,
the coaches are smarter to so much strategy and the
players are dumb, But like that's dumb, so so in
other in other words, they knew they were going to
give the job to the white guy, and they had
already spread that, that word had already gone through to
the people who needed to know, and they accidentally and
(27:10):
and you know, I don't know how much involvement, but
I'm not trying to pay Bill Bill Belichick is a
bad guy or anything like that. But Bill Belichick accidentally
hit up the black guy to be like, hey, congratulations
on getting the job that he was getting ready to
go interview for and it was already given to somebody
else before he even did his interview, like behind the scenes,
(27:33):
so he was about to go interview and they had
already picked someone else. I mean, you know, the the
I don't want to be the one to like, you know,
be like, oh man, there needs to be more black owners.
But at the end of the day, in this particular situation,
with this particular problem, if we're you know, we're we're
we've got to overlook We've got to overlook the you
(27:56):
know a lot of other things to focus on this
aspect of the airs and coaches and ownership and stuff
like that. Like you said, there's a lot of people
on the lower rung who aren't even being mentioned in
this labor dispute. But but yeah, I mean I think
that like it comes back to the fundamental question of
like does representation equaliberation, because I think getting black coaches
in there might give us the opportunity for them to
(28:18):
like see the value of the lower folks see the
value and the players see you know, how to be
culturally responsive and implement some of that into their coaching,
but they might get some black coaches in there that
are like, Yo, I've got my bag, fuck y'all, and
not do anything to help advance the conditions in the league.
And so I mean, yes, it's better to have black owners,
I guess, but that does not ensure that we are
implementing fairer policies for everyone else involved. They could also
(28:42):
just kind of reproduce the current situation that all of
them are experiencing. When you're gonna like this next part,
because leaders of the n double a c P, the
National Coalition on Black Civic Participation, the National Action Network,
and the now No African American Clergy Network have requested
(29:03):
to meet with the league's commissioner, Roger Goodell, and the
leaders have called on Goodell to replace the existing rule
and for the league to examine the specific recruiting and
hiring procedures when it comes to its executive and coaching positions.
The group also called for meaningful consequences for teams that
do not abide by the rules. Their statement says, however
(29:24):
well intentioned, the effect the Rooney rule has been for
team decision makers to regard interviewer interviews with candidates of
color or interviews with candidates of color as an extraneous
step rather than an integral part of the hiring process.
I see this all the time in city contracts where
we can't per state law, like tell them we can't
(29:48):
buy state law. Tell them that, like they have to
hire a certain number of minorities, are paying in a
certain kind of wage, so we can ask them nicely
to put in a good faith effort to do so.
And so recently this cat called me up talking about how,
you know, for this big arena project here, um we
had we had like put in a contract and they
needed to put in a good faith effort to hire
minority contractors. And his friend they called him up like yo,
(30:09):
I went to there like recruiting luncheon or something, and
there was literally just a whole bunch of white people
the only black person there, and like, I don't are
they going to follow up with him? Like you know,
really they just you know check the box of like,
oh we tried, and there's no accountability. So I do think,
you know, beefing up the Rooney rule by like saying
they have to actually hire a certain amount of people
(30:30):
like makes a lot more sense than just like asking
them to put in a good faith effort when really
it ends up being a superficial effort to recruit people
for these positions and take you know, take them seriously
as candidates. And I mean, and then the owners, Like
I'd like that part about making them, you know, making
some some penalties if they don't do it or if
(30:52):
they violate ship. But it's like, what can what penalties
can you do? I mean, there's only thirty three of
these positions, these owner positions in the world, you know
what I'm saying, Like, I mean, and we just got
to consider like the NFL is like a money making
cultural phenomenon of entity and ship like that. There's only
(31:12):
thirty three, thirty two of these owner positions and every
last person who has the position is a billionaire. So
it's like, what are you you know, at the end
of the day, they're gonna put their fucking boys in
and if there's any rule that they have to break,
you know what I'm saying, Like, short of one of
these guys getting in like some serious like legal trouble
(31:33):
that you know, you can't take the team away from
them as their team. So and this is why we
should take the teams away from them and COLLECTIVI the
NFL sees the means of production. Let the owners be
the workers, be the folks out there quarterback in and
kicking and putting the thing through the thing and stop
(31:56):
in the locker room. Just collective ownership and management, no more.
Ray is um utopia would be great. Let's go get that.
Brian Flors be the leader. We got a Al sharpon quote.
So UM. The National Action Network, their founder Al Sharpton
said the organization will be approaching states and municipalities to
(32:17):
stop public funding and tax incentives to NFFL stadiums until
the goals presented by the leaders are met. So well,
we should do that anyway, I mean, like, why are
we publicly funding like arenas that are making these billionaires
billions of dollars. But in a nutshell, you know, it
doesn't look good. And and shout out to Brian Flores
(32:40):
for shining the spotlight almost especially in Black History Month.
I can't help but think that that was done on purpose.
Is um. Yeah, there's a lot of stud stud and bucking.
Oh god, yeah, there's so much of that. The workhorse
and like he's a you know, like you know, he's
a bru. I mean, okay, it's it's not like slavery slavery,
(33:03):
but like conservatives, hey, when you make the slavery in
NFL comparisons, and let's be clear, look, yo, no one
is making a literal comparison of chattel slavery in the NFL,
so please, it's an analogy. It is an analogy. I'm
(33:23):
not trying to say that it is actual slavery because
these people are making millions, but like yeah, yeah, I
mean that and and that's that's that's where you know,
if you're getting paid, you're not a slavery. I mean,
the comparisons are fair to make if they're there. I mean,
I've I've heard I've seen some foot like pro football
players and pro basketball players like talking, and the one
(33:46):
dude was like, yo, man, the in the NFL, the
relationship that the players have with the owner is kind
of like some slavery ship. It's like it's the it's
the most it's the furthest removed from the owner that
you is in the NFL, you know what I'm saying.
Where it's like really they're up there and you're down here.
Catch the ball, nigger, run you know, it's like like
(34:07):
you don't really interact with him at all, so he's
like it really does end up kind of feeling like
you're fucking buck out there on an auction block. And
then you know whether it's coincidence or not. You look
at the combines when they're testing out the new recruits
and the people who are going to be drafted and
ship like that. It does. Yeah, I know, the imagery
(34:28):
is definitely slavy. I mean, can we can we can
we at least say that? I mean, can we at
least on that? Yeah, I mean I don't appreciate when
like liberals trying to hyperpoleize issues, but like there is
a certain way in which it reproduces the social structures
of slavery, and that there's like physical labor that's like
being like commodified to make somebody a billionaire. And then
(34:51):
these folks get get out and then she'd like c
t E and then like die earlier, like have mental
illness later in their lives, so their body are just
having the labor wrung out of them and then they're discarded. Oh,
speaking of Peel, did you did you see the Jordan Peel?
Do you see the trailer for his new joint. It's
(35:12):
called Nope what no what it looks It's like it
looks like Signs with Black People, which I'm I'm with it.
I'm with it. Let's just yeah, let's make remake all
the Grades with Black People. Needs to He needs to
start with the titles though, like, oh, what, come on
what You're gonna need to get some regular titles? Though,
(35:35):
no more, no more us and Nope, you know I
don't just get I don't like the one word titles.
Signs is one word. I mean, like like, I don't
like that title either. Come on, give me a title.
I'm not I'm not making any m night exceptions. Canny
man is candy man is two words. I like that. Yeah,
Kenny man is two words. It's at least two syllables.
(35:57):
What you know what I'm saying? This is the hill
you're gonna die on? Really anyway, that is what we
got for the day. Um do you want to wrap? Yeah?
All right, yo, Taylor Joel, I can't see through the glass.
I don't know which one of y'all is, but somebody
give me a beat please? Yeah? Uh waiting, no reparations, waiting,
(36:21):
no reparations, lava. Frank can tell them the black of
the bevery, the sweet at the quarterback, and but when
it comes to the coaches, the blackness and sort of lacking.
And it's sort of battling because there'll be a lot
of athletes who could be the funding things that said
they placed in the back seat all across the country.
The workers organizing we're talking to taxis you at the
end of having to come from feeling timely? Bryan flower As,
(36:44):
get your shine, be get your Shane be hit up
with the class action doing it for the culture. Like
the last Bassip. The Rooney rule was cool, but it
lacks traction. Only one black coach got a brother back then.
You gotta keep fighting because it ain't over. Gonna put
pressure on the stakeholders because they in the owner's box
feeling like a slave owner and they're really scared of
the revolution. Take ova Dope. Hey, I'm dope knife And
(37:10):
you have been listening to Waiting on Reparations, mofo, have
a good week. See you next time. Listen to Waiting
on Reparations on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts.
You are listening and waiting on reparations a production of
I Heart Radio, Yo Yo Yo. What's good people, I'm
dope knife, I'm with Franca and you are listening to
waiting on reparations? Are you doing? Oh, I'm good, I'm good. Yeah.
I have a working, hard working smart trying to at
(00:24):
least take a little dance breaks posting them on TikTok. Oh,
where'd you've been. You've been doing the TikTok TikTok a
little bit. It's been kind of fun. I don't know.
It's just like it's been fun to do silly little
like oh no, like a little mini plays in my
kitchen when the baby sleep, taking a little breaks from
work with just you know, I forgot I have dance moves.
(00:44):
I am a good dancer. I am and so I've
been doing a little dudle dance sixtoks. But like I was, ship,
I gotta like that. I still I have a TikTok account.
I've been like I've been flirting with the idea of
like just posting up versus like like everything that a
little bit too fun. It's just like I don't know why.
It's like I think I just need to go ahead
and do it. I think I've been getting too carried
away about one of those round white light things and
(01:07):
it's like it's a pain in the ask to set up.
I'm like, man, no, no, I should be blurry as
hill like it's not it's really not that so all
like that. So well. I well, speaking of breaks, I
took a little break this past weekend. I went on
a little vac down to Florida just you know, hung
out some people's and watched the Super Bowl. Did you
(01:28):
get to see the Super Bowl? I literally so. One
of my fellow commissioners shoutouts to Russell Edwards texted me
in the just like out of the blue, he said, Fitty,
and I was like, what is he talking about? Um?
I assumed it was football related because I had had
to get off Twitter that night because all everybody's time
was football. It was like I don't I don't sport.
I don't do it. But then he was like, yeah,
(01:50):
you've missed the halftime show. It's like Kendrick and Dr Dre.
And I was like, well, it was the first ever
all hip hop headline super Bowl halftime show, so I
saw it was pretty cool, you know, I mean it
was like a bunch of legacies. It was all legacy acts.
You know. You had Snoop, Dr Dre, Eminem, Mary J. Blige,
(02:12):
like you said, the cameo by fifty and then we
had Anderson Pack in the bags playing the drums. I
was pretty cute. Was his little thing caught me. It
was like, you know when he was doing um I
and he was like and we hey, yeah, I want
to kill us dad in the Street Bump show. I
was like, what did you hear about the Okay? So
(02:34):
there was some dust up before, right at least for
as much, you know, as reliably as you could go
on like Twitter stories and Twitter drama and stuff. But
so the word was a couple of hours before the
Super Bowl that and Eminem had planned to kneel and
that the NFL had told him, you know, explicitly, you know,
you can't do that. And then Dr Dre wanted to
(02:57):
split the line, still not loving police and still Dre
and the NFL told him that you couldn't do that,
and both things happened. So that was so Kendrick was
the one that kind of like bowed to that. I
don't want to say he bowed but you know, I
mean em and EV and DR to be honest with you,
(03:19):
like that was like while because I had been I was,
you know, reading ship on Twitter while the game was
going on, so I was like letting everybody I was
in the room with know about that whole thing. So
when we were actually watching the halftime performance and Eminem Neil,
that was like the biggest pop or reaction that anybody
that the whole game got. You know, we were like
(03:42):
the NFL later on declared that they knew that Eminem
was gonna do it and stuff like that. I don't
know about that. I'm just gonna imagine the Eminem just
said fuck y'all or said I don't give a fucking yeah,
that's cool. And you know, two things come to mind.
For one, you know that at first it's like, well
they had like cops feel in districts with people like
two summers ago whatever, like to kneel these days has
(04:05):
become such a watered down act. But when you also
consider the context of within the NFL as well as
like what Colin Kaepernick has gone on to do with
like creating you know, Kaepernick Publishing, and now they're putting
out all this like radical, you know, like black feminist
and like abolitionist like writings and essays and stuff. It's like,
you know, if you're drawing attention back to him in
(04:26):
the context in which he was sort of radicalized and
like marginalized politically at first, which then caused him to
game this larger political platform. It's a pretty dope thing.
I appreciate he did that. I appreciate eminem give a
shine to the you know, like yeah, and I mean
in this day and age, when you've got like massive
media figures like given motherfucker's the green light to say
(04:48):
the N word and ship, I'll take a superficial kneeling gesture.
You know, I'm not mad at that. Let's not yeah
at all. But speaking of the NFL, guess that's a
good idea. It wasn't even planned in that look at
that freestyle in the show, But that's a good transition
because today what we're going to talk about is these
(05:08):
uh class action lawsuit that's been taken against the NFL
by the former Miami Dolphins head coach Brian Flores. So
just to give you a little recap of it, So
Black History Month kicked off this year with a lawsuit
from Brian Flores. He was suing the NFL and three
of his teams for alleged patterns of racist hiring practices
(05:31):
by the league and racial discrimination. In this class action lawsuit,
the teams involved where the Miami Dolphins, the Denver Broncos,
and the New York Giants. Now there's just one active
African American coach in the NFL going into next season,
and that's Mike Tomlin of the Pittsburgh Steelers. UM. Six
(05:53):
of the nine vacancies leading into this hiring cycle where
all they all went to white men, and the two
of the final three openings went to a first cast
of candidates. So the Texans hired Levy Smith, who's a
veteran coach any black man, and the Dolphins hired Mike McDaniel,
who is multiracial. UM. But both of those hirings came
(06:16):
after Flores issued his lawsuit. So we are I mean,
just your before because you know I'm gonna get your thoughts.
Oh no, let's hit the jump, because I got all right,
we're gonna be We're gonna be back with that and
more after the jump. But we're gonna try to for two.
I'm not necessarily a sports ball sports person, but I
do like basketball. Football is not really my thing. So
(06:39):
for two football novices are going to try to see
if we can dig into this topic or after the jump,
all right, we are back. So if you're just joining us,
re rhyin the goddamn podcast and find out what we're
talking about. Mariah, So what are your initial thoughts on
(07:01):
the situation before we get into some of these facts.
So the the facts arising about this lawsuit and the
change that it has already spurred brings me back to
in my work kind of like um, contemplating the value
of lawsuits generally, because there's a lot of things that
the city attorneys like plead with us not to do.
(07:22):
That sometimes we will do anyway, because even if we
get suited, it raises an important issue. And even through
threats of legal action, you can force people. On the
other hand, you can through that's a legal action, you
can get people to do all kinds of things. So,
um thing about Yeah, like in the terrain of organizing
all the tools we have at our disposal, getting folks elected,
(07:44):
marching the streets, colony of the congressman, filing lawsuits. I
think this this Um, this juncture here kind of underscores
the importance of also like using the law against the system,
where it's like, yeah, I mean, I don't know if
he's gonna win this lawsuit, but already they hired like
two black, you know, diverse um football coaches and so
(08:06):
like there you go. Well, I mean even some of
that might be a little I mean, we'll we'll get
into you know, some of the history of of the
NFL's coach hiring in a little bit. But even some
of that might not even be adequate with not certainly
not yes, yeah, not at all to say that whatsoever.
(08:26):
But it's interesting what you can get them to do,
like to start nudging them in the right direction. And
like so like, um, for someone who like I mean
you're out of all the people who I know in
my life, you're like probably like one of the few
people who I know personally that it's like, oh, this
like Marie on some revolutionary ships, you know what I'm saying, Like,
(08:49):
like she's actually out there like like doing the work
and stuff. So for someone like you, who I consider
her to be or or like more on the revolutionary tip,
is there any sort of is there any sort of
like paradox created by like using the system to fight
the system. I mean, I think we have to. I mean,
(09:10):
there's arguments on either side. He looked. There's a lot
of people out here that are like, we have organized
totally separate from the state. We gotta do mutual aid,
we gotta like, you know, build up for the revolution
whatever whatever. You got people in the middle that see that,
you know, have a more militant vent or like, oh,
let's march in the street and get our asked bet
by the cop and you know, dota at it up.
(09:31):
And then you got folks that like fully just focus
on what you can do within the system, etcetera. And
I've seen in my time a tendency among organizers to
like be purists about their way of doing things. And
I get it. You you know, you commit your heart
to something because you think it's the right thing. But
like I try and my work try to like not
prescribe what is the best way to do it. I've seen,
(09:52):
you know, I've advocated for getting people elected and then
I've been elected and seen that like it is somewhat
limiting and um, ETCeteras. I've seen organizations that are like
trying to like do abolitionist work outside of like the state, Like, oh,
we don't even wanted to fund the police. We're going
to create our whole own like systems of safety and accountability.
(10:12):
And then they won't like they can't get any money
to do it because it's all it's all like state
grants or whatever, and so they're hampered because they don't
have any money. So I'm just all for a directory
of tactics whatever, you know, just like I'm not gonna
tell you what you should and shouldn't do. I'm not
gonna be like, oh, following the lawsuit doesn't really changed it.
Like you and our kids out here with your you know,
(10:34):
super kitchen, Like do your change? Do you think like
it's none of my business what y'all up to, Like
the same sort of thing that we're just saying about
Eminem and the kneeling. It's like at this point, like
any gesture helps, you know, So right, if it's gonna
like get someone to like google calling Kaepernick again like
I was saying in the intro, and then they're like, oh,
he started a publishing company and they stumble upon like
(10:56):
essays by Derek Parnell or whatever, Like that's kind of cool.
And I mean anybody anybody who wants to like point
towards like another like lane of attacks that's different from
a lawsuit. Then by all means you know what I'm saying,
like point it out or go do it, you know,
but like don't hate on anybody else's trategy. And there's
already there's already precedent in you know, going back to
(11:18):
once again where um basketball players started striking and like
refusing to play right, and so there's a labor organizing
tactic have been having been used in sports. Now we're
trying out lawsuits like who knows, who knows what's next.
I'm excited to see, like if people are really serious
about this and they don't just sort of succumb to meager,
(11:41):
succome to meager like like oh, you know headpaths as
as you know, solutions and justice. I don't know, let's
see you let's see what they try next. I don't know.
So I'm sorry, I heard you all. Now you're doing okay.
So per NFL dot Com, only five of the last
thirty six head coaching openings gone to black men. This
(12:05):
is an unacceptable quote unquote reality as said by the
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, who acknowledged that who acknowledged those
four days after the league had said of Flores's claims
were without merit. Now, Goodell was asked about the discrepancy
between the two comments, and he said, it's a good question,
which I've asked our office. He's a it's a good
(12:27):
question which in our office, and we've talked about it.
I think the initial reaction was regarding the legal claims
themselves and not really what we would say the experience
of what coach Flores was going through. And that's what
and that's what the most colorful, flavorful word salad I've
(12:48):
ever seen. And that's what and then he Goodal continues,
and that's what I'm more interested in. I put the
legal claims in the legal process to the side, and
that will be handled by lawyers. To me, it's more
important for us to lawyers. Goodell, who's for me, It's
more important people you hired to sort of listen to
Flora's and understand what he and other coaches are going through.
(13:09):
I'm sorry, just wanted to get the brazen contradiction. So
let's and I mean, yeah, just just Florid, just before
you let the commissioner have it. Let's just let's just
go through some of the facts about the NFL right
now in this particular issue. So the workforce, which by
(13:33):
this you know what we're going to say, the players
of the workforce. Obviously there's way more people that go
into making a team a team, YadA, YadA. But of
the players, the player workforce sev black. The assistant coaches
who that is drawn from the players that's black. Then
currently we have two black head coaches. I only say
(13:56):
too black because the third guy is listed as multiracial
and not as black. So we have two black head
coaches and zero black owners and there are thirty two teams. Mariah.
So look the fact you brought up an interesting point
to start with the black player who work force, because um,
(14:19):
I am curious because this is even this suit is
even brought about by like the mid tier person, right,
like a like a t like a what Brian Flores
was a head coach. He was a head coach this
past he was a head coach, right, So he's not
a team owner. He's not like a shareholder or something.
He's like kind of like a middle management from in
(14:40):
the grand. In the grand, the coaches are management, but
they're definitely in this for in terms of this discussion
their labor, their labor right right. They don't run the internet,
they don't own the team you have steaks in it
or anything like that. I think this is very echoes
in many ways what we see sometimes and like like
larger labor organizing movements. Okay, take for example, what's going
(15:04):
on with Starbucks right now, Like you know, the first
Starbucks unionized in December, like ever since then, like a
thousand workers at Starbucks across the country have filed for
having union elections. It's like the what the the wild
fiery is the spreading is like labor movement in recent history, right,
But you think about the kinds of peoples that Starbucks
(15:25):
wants to hire to manage their image is like very
like forward thinking liberal kind of thing. They're hiring a
lot of like college grads. They're calling on a lot
of artists, a lot of people that you know, identify
with like the Black Lives Matter movement. So these aren't
the like I mean, this is not I'm not too
like paying you know, a blanket picture of everything. I'm
(15:47):
sure there's a lot of diversity in their workforce. But
you know this, this isn't like the like the hood
nigga's got out of jail that's going to work at
the poultry plant. And like you know, the blue who
who we typically associate with blue collar folks there's tend
to be more educated, etcetera, etcetera. And so those are
the folks that like will advocate for getting there's more
so than the folks at the real about like the
(16:08):
bottom bottom like that really needs like ship so that
like I don't know what the role of the players
is and all this especially and we're not even talking
about the folks that you know, clean the clean, the clean,
the clean, cheerleaders, cheerleaders, mopping the locker room floor. I
think so those people are completely left out of the conversation.
(16:29):
And someone who's like in the middle, like you know,
like you know, has a sense of more has slightly
more privileged than other folks is the one that's coming
for their well. I think that's what makes conversations like
this heart. I think that the reason why it's like
hard for like these sort of like topics too kind
of blow up as being a large labor issues because ultimately,
(16:53):
you know, Brian floor has just got paid like three
million dollars for the season, you know, I mean, ultimately
we're talking about rich trying to get more are of
theirs at the at the end of the day. So
we have to take the conversation with that prism or
that grain in salt or whatever that you know, it's
rich people arguing about themselves, even though there is like
a further you know, racial and economic divide that you
(17:15):
can dig into it. But I want to be clear
though that like true, like economic transformation of this country
is going to require people like Brian Flores to see
themselves as more like the black player workforce and the
janitors mopping the locker room, to realize he's more like
(17:37):
them than the people that really run ship well in
his in his and I don't even know if this
is a defense because you weren't attacking him, but something
that aspect of football that you might not know if
you don't like watch it or if you don't know
like the inner workings of it. This is a huge
sacrifice for him, Like he's most likely ever going to
(17:57):
coach again, you know what I'm saying, That's what I'm
talking about, Yes, we're gonna need people like that to
be willing to sacrifice a little bit in order for
even them get justice, but also the people below them,
you know, so like a lot of people everyone thinks
they're like, what's it like temporarily embarrassed billionaires or whatever,
especially middle class folks who think they are like you know,
(18:20):
or like even upper middle class folks who, let's say,
like Brian Flores, who think they're closer to like Jeff
Bezos than they are to homelessness. But if this is true,
if he loses this lawsuit, can't ever coach again, Like
his life could take a significant turn for the worst,
and that he's actually closer to the folks at the
bottom than he is someone like whoever, like the CEO
(18:41):
of the NFL, I don't even know. That's the thing,
Like he's he's doing this for future generations, Like he's
not going to coach in the even if they win,
even if he wins the lawsuit, he's never going to
coach again, Like they're they're they're not, I mean, And
and through this there's been there's been a lot of
there's a lot of like there's aspect of the story
(19:01):
that's very very much football Insider football ship that we're
not a sports show, so it's like it's not really
you know, I'm not really interested in covering up, but
like you know, the aspects of like them asking him
to throw games and to tank his team and things
like that, that yeah, he's suing on those grounds. But
(19:25):
if like this lawsuit is successful and it ends up
being the end result is that there's more black coaches
and there's more U coaches of color, that's all gonna
be dope. But on his account, like that's what he's
doing it for, because he's not going to be one
of those coaches. The next thing I want to say
is that having more black coaches is cool, but that's
(19:46):
still management, that's still reinforcing the idea that like we
need more black CEOs and like black business owners to
like get free when like at the end of the day,
like the people not on the floor are still going
to be on food stamps or whatever. Like just I
guess in the culture of American football though, is like
(20:09):
black people and this is this is my general sense
again as somebody who football is not my favorite sport,
but like black people in football are very much considered
like workhorses and like laborers. They're not really considered thinkers,
you know what I'm saying. So the aspects, the aspects
of aspects of football that are like cerebral and require
(20:31):
thinking and study and watching tape and stuff like that,
these white billionaire owners don't trust black men in those positions,
you know, I'm saying, like quarterbacks. You know, there was
for the longest time there was a stigma about black
black men camp quarterbacks. Black black still make good quarterbacks.
(20:52):
That's kind of been shattered now. But even in shattering that,
like a lot of those a lot of those stigma
still persis us, you know what I'm saying. And I
don't think that anything like this is really going to
change until the ownership changes. But then again, like I said,
it's like your that argument is an argument for you know,
we need more black billionaires, you know what I mean.
(21:14):
I mean, if the ownership changes, you put more black
people in charge, and they are more um understanding of
the various kinds of like skill and labor and intelligence
that people are putting into all of these positions. Even
if you say, oh, like you know, the players aren't smart,
they're just buff and and like strong or whatever. It's like, well,
it takes a certain kind of like what you could
(21:34):
call like bodily intelligence to know how to like do
a little swivel pirouette around some dude when you're trying
to tackle you, or like line like you know, line
the football up and kick it straight through the like that.
Those that's like very like complicated and underappreciated, like thinking
that has to be done in order to do that,
and so like they are very intelligent and someone who
(21:55):
if you get a black coach in place, you might
you might find somebody who like sees at and recognize
it's like, you know, maybe we need more equity, etcetera.
But it's just but it's not it's not something you
can just assume. You know, I'm not all skin folks,
kin folk, etcetera. So it's not something you just like
as will get better. Is like an insult to injury
in this whole thing. Whereas like you know what, what
(22:18):
uh group of people actually do end up having positions
as head coaches in the NFL, people whose fathers were
coaches in the NFL. So they've got a bit of
a nepotism issue going on within their ranks as well.
That only exacerbates the racial issue. But let's get back
(22:41):
into some of these facts. So, Fritz Pollard, I don't
know if I'm pronouncing that right. Fritz Pollard. Yeah, Fritz
Pollard broke the coaching color barrier back in ninete man.
The early days was an interesting time for naming your children.
I mean, my kid's name may stop Fritz Pollard. But
(23:05):
it took. It took an additional sixty eight years before
Art Shell became the second black man to lead a team. So,
I don't know how many of you all out there
are familiar with something called the Rooney Rule. Are you
familiar with the Rooney rule at all? In terms of
football r I have never heard of that game. Okay,
(23:27):
So the Rooney rule was developed in two thousand three,
two thousand two. So it is the National Football League
policy that requires league teams to interview ethnic minority candidate
for head coaching and senior football operation job. It is
an example of affirmative action, even though there was no
hiring quota or hiring preference given minorities. It's only an
(23:47):
interviewing quota. It was created in two as it was
created as a reaction to the two thousand two firings
of head coach Tony Dungee of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
and Dennis Green of the Minnesota Vikings, but with black
at the time when Dungee had a winning record and
Green had just had his first losing season in ten years.
Shortly afterwards, US civil rights attorney Cyrus Marie and Johnny
(24:14):
Cochrane released a study showing black head coaches, despite winning
at a higher percentage of games, were less likely to
be hired and more likely to be fired than their
white counterparts. Former NFL players Kelly Kellyn, will Wilson, and
John Wotton. Oh Sorry, Former NFL players Kellen Winslow and
John Wotton then put together an infinity group of minority scouts, coaches,
(24:39):
and front office personnelity to advocate for rules creation. Its
purpose was to ensure that minority coaches, especially African Americans,
would be considered for high level coaching positions. Now dig this.
At the time that the Rooney Rule was installed, there
were four black head coaches in the NFL, and they
(25:00):
aim that to be a problem that they created the
Ruoney Rule. In two before this lawsuit, there was one
head coach, one black head coach. Oh my god. So
clearly this is operating brilliantly. So we've regressed the rule
obviously didn't work. Thoughts on that love that for us? Well,
(25:23):
I mean, first of all, I think it's really cool
that they did have sort of like a collective organizing
project of getting together the scouts, these front office personnel
to make a demand, you know, to like ask them
to make things better. But I mean, ultimately it does
seem like it was a superficially measure. I don't mean,
I don't I don't mean to cut you off, but
there's some context I need to give you about black
(25:44):
Brian Flowers his lawsuit all right, Okay, So one of
the things that he's that he alleges in his lawsuit
is that the Rooney rule is like a sham and
it's a charade. Like they do. They do like the whole,
you know, the whole, the whole, all the tricks, the
smoking mirrors, and they do these interviews, but at the
end of the day, they don't have any intention of
(26:07):
hiring these black closers are the diverse coaches that they're seeing,
so they're not even coming into the interview process with
a fair shake. One of the things. One of the
examples was, so, you know you've heard the famous coach
Bill Belichick. You've heard that name. Okay, So, Brian Flores
was an assistant coach, I believe, underneath Bill Belichick. So
(26:27):
when uh, Brian Flores and another coach who also was
an assistant under Bill Belichick, they were both vuying for
the same job, and Bill Belichick hit up Brian Flores
congratulating him for the job. Yeah, I thought he was
texting the other dude. I did hear about like four
or five days before it was announced that other dude
(26:48):
got the job. Bro, what people trying to say, Oh,
the coaches are smarter to so much strategy and the
players are dumb, But like that's dumb, so so in
other in other words, they knew they were going to
give the job to the white guy, and they had
already spread that, that word had already gone through to
the people who needed to know, and they accidentally and
(27:10):
and you know, I don't know how much involvement, but
I'm not trying to pay Bill Bill Belichick is a
bad guy or anything like that. But Bill Belichick accidentally
hit up the black guy to be like, hey, congratulations
on getting the job that he was getting ready to
go interview for and it was already given to somebody
else before he even did his interview, like behind the scenes,
(27:33):
so he was about to go interview and they had
already picked someone else. I mean, you know, the the
I don't want to be the one to like, you know,
be like, oh man, there needs to be more black owners.
But at the end of the day, in this particular situation,
with this particular problem, if we're you know, we're we're
we've got to overlook We've got to overlook the you
(27:56):
know a lot of other things to focus on this
aspect of the airs and coaches and ownership and stuff
like that. Like you said, there's a lot of people
on the lower rung who aren't even being mentioned in
this labor dispute. But but yeah, I mean I think
that like it comes back to the fundamental question of
like does representation equaliberation, because I think getting black coaches
in there might give us the opportunity for them to
(28:18):
like see the value of the lower folks see the
value and the players see you know, how to be
culturally responsive and implement some of that into their coaching,
but they might get some black coaches in there that
are like, Yo, I've got my bag, fuck y'all, and
not do anything to help advance the conditions in the league.
And so I mean, yes, it's better to have black owners,
I guess, but that does not ensure that we are
implementing fairer policies for everyone else involved. They could also
(28:42):
just kind of reproduce the current situation that all of
them are experiencing. When you're gonna like this next part,
because leaders of the n double a c P, the
National Coalition on Black Civic Participation, the National Action Network,
and the now No African American Clergy Network have requested
(29:03):
to meet with the league's commissioner, Roger Goodell, and the
leaders have called on Goodell to replace the existing rule
and for the league to examine the specific recruiting and
hiring procedures when it comes to its executive and coaching positions.
The group also called for meaningful consequences for teams that
do not abide by the rules. Their statement says, however
(29:24):
well intentioned, the effect the Rooney rule has been for
team decision makers to regard interviewer interviews with candidates of
color or interviews with candidates of color as an extraneous
step rather than an integral part of the hiring process.
I see this all the time in city contracts where
we can't per state law, like tell them we can't
(29:48):
buy state law. Tell them that, like they have to
hire a certain number of minorities, are paying in a
certain kind of wage, so we can ask them nicely
to put in a good faith effort to do so.
And so recently this cat called me up talking about how,
you know, for this big arena project here, um we
had we had like put in a contract and they
needed to put in a good faith effort to hire
minority contractors. And his friend they called him up like yo,
(30:09):
I went to there like recruiting luncheon or something, and
there was literally just a whole bunch of white people
the only black person there, and like, I don't are
they going to follow up with him? Like you know,
really they just you know check the box of like,
oh we tried, and there's no accountability. So I do think,
you know, beefing up the Rooney rule by like saying
they have to actually hire a certain amount of people
(30:30):
like makes a lot more sense than just like asking
them to put in a good faith effort when really
it ends up being a superficial effort to recruit people
for these positions and take you know, take them seriously
as candidates. And I mean, and then the owners, Like
I'd like that part about making them, you know, making
some some penalties if they don't do it or if
(30:52):
they violate ship. But it's like, what can what penalties
can you do? I mean, there's only thirty three of
these positions, these owner positions in the world, you know
what I'm saying, Like, I mean, and we just got
to consider like the NFL is like a money making
cultural phenomenon of entity and ship like that. There's only
(31:12):
thirty three, thirty two of these owner positions and every
last person who has the position is a billionaire. So
it's like, what are you you know, at the end
of the day, they're gonna put their fucking boys in
and if there's any rule that they have to break,
you know what I'm saying, Like, short of one of
these guys getting in like some serious like legal trouble
(31:33):
that you know, you can't take the team away from
them as their team. So and this is why we
should take the teams away from them and COLLECTIVI the
NFL sees the means of production. Let the owners be
the workers, be the folks out there quarterback in and
kicking and putting the thing through the thing and stop
(31:56):
in the locker room. Just collective ownership and management, no more.
Ray is um utopia would be great. Let's go get that.
Brian Flors be the leader. We got a Al sharpon quote.
So UM. The National Action Network, their founder Al Sharpton
said the organization will be approaching states and municipalities to
(32:17):
stop public funding and tax incentives to NFFL stadiums until
the goals presented by the leaders are met. So well,
we should do that anyway, I mean, like, why are
we publicly funding like arenas that are making these billionaires
billions of dollars. But in a nutshell, you know, it
doesn't look good. And and shout out to Brian Flores
(32:40):
for shining the spotlight almost especially in Black History Month.
I can't help but think that that was done on purpose.
Is um. Yeah, there's a lot of stud stud and bucking.
Oh god, yeah, there's so much of that. The workhorse
and like he's a you know, like you know, he's
a bru. I mean, okay, it's it's not like slavery slavery,
(33:03):
but like conservatives, hey, when you make the slavery in
NFL comparisons, and let's be clear, look, yo, no one
is making a literal comparison of chattel slavery in the NFL,
so please, it's an analogy. It is an analogy. I'm
(33:23):
not trying to say that it is actual slavery because
these people are making millions, but like yeah, yeah, I
mean that and and that's that's that's where you know,
if you're getting paid, you're not a slavery. I mean,
the comparisons are fair to make if they're there. I mean,
I've I've heard I've seen some foot like pro football
players and pro basketball players like talking, and the one
(33:46):
dude was like, yo, man, the in the NFL, the
relationship that the players have with the owner is kind
of like some slavery ship. It's like it's the it's
the most it's the furthest removed from the owner that
you is in the NFL, you know what I'm saying.
Where it's like really they're up there and you're down here.
Catch the ball, nigger, run you know, it's like like
(34:07):
you don't really interact with him at all, so he's
like it really does end up kind of feeling like
you're fucking buck out there on an auction block. And
then you know whether it's coincidence or not. You look
at the combines when they're testing out the new recruits
and the people who are going to be drafted and
ship like that. It does. Yeah, I know, the imagery
(34:28):
is definitely slavy. I mean, can we can we can
we at least say that? I mean, can we at
least on that? Yeah, I mean I don't appreciate when
like liberals trying to hyperpoleize issues, but like there is
a certain way in which it reproduces the social structures
of slavery, and that there's like physical labor that's like
being like commodified to make somebody a billionaire. And then
(34:51):
these folks get get out and then she'd like c
t E and then like die earlier, like have mental
illness later in their lives, so their body are just
having the labor wrung out of them and then they're discarded. Oh,
speaking of Peel, did you did you see the Jordan Peel?
Do you see the trailer for his new joint. It's
(35:12):
called Nope what no what it looks It's like it
looks like Signs with Black People, which I'm I'm with it.
I'm with it. Let's just yeah, let's make remake all
the Grades with Black People. Needs to He needs to
start with the titles though, like, oh, what, come on
what You're gonna need to get some regular titles? Though,
(35:35):
no more, no more us and Nope, you know I
don't just get I don't like the one word titles.
Signs is one word. I mean, like like, I don't
like that title either. Come on, give me a title.
I'm not I'm not making any m night exceptions. Canny
man is candy man is two words. I like that. Yeah,
Kenny man is two words. It's at least two syllables.
(35:57):
What you know what I'm saying? This is the hill
you're gonna die on? Really anyway, that is what we
got for the day. Um do you want to wrap? Yeah?
All right, yo, Taylor Joel, I can't see through the glass.
I don't know which one of y'all is, but somebody
give me a beat please? Yeah? Uh waiting, no reparations, waiting,
(36:21):
no reparations, lava. Frank can tell them the black of
the bevery, the sweet at the quarterback, and but when
it comes to the coaches, the blackness and sort of lacking.
And it's sort of battling because there'll be a lot
of athletes who could be the funding things that said
they placed in the back seat all across the country.
The workers organizing we're talking to taxis you at the
end of having to come from feeling timely? Bryan flower As,
(36:44):
get your shine, be get your Shane be hit up
with the class action doing it for the culture. Like
the last Bassip. The Rooney rule was cool, but it
lacks traction. Only one black coach got a brother back then.
You gotta keep fighting because it ain't over. Gonna put
pressure on the stakeholders because they in the owner's box
feeling like a slave owner and they're really scared of
the revolution. Take ova Dope. Hey, I'm dope knife And
(37:10):
you have been listening to Waiting on Reparations, mofo, have
a good week. See you next time. Listen to Waiting
on Reparations on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts.
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