EP #4 | 9yr NFL Vet - LEIGH BODDEN / Non-scholarship & Undrafted - WalkieTalkieZ Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Walkie Talkies is a production of I Heart Radio and
the College Athletes Network. Hello, Yeah, Walkie Talkies, What's up everybody?

(00:25):
Welcome back to Walkie Talkies podcast with Google's walking On
in the Country. I'm your host, Noah Buono. Al Right, everybody,
So we're three weeks in now, and have you been
listening every week or you've listened to just a couple
of episodes? How are we liking the show? What do
we think that? The reason I'm asking is because I
got so many more amazing guests and interviews that are
just sitting in the vault, like such a wide variety

(00:46):
of different walk On stories that I'm really so excited
to keep sharing with you all as I continue to
interview more and more people. But anyway, if you have
been enjoying the show and you like what you've been
listening to, then please make sure you are subscribed to
the podcast on the I Heart Radio app or wherever
you listen to your podcast. You don't miss any episodes,
because God forbid, who who would want to miss one
of these? Right? Alright, alright, let's get into today's episode,

(01:09):
the real Juicy Stuff. Today's conversation with a nine year
NFL veteran Lee Boden. Lee was a non scholarship athlete
at Duquesne University from two thousand two, as Ducaine's football
program at the time was a one double, a non
scholarship football program, which in my books, technically makes Leah
walk on and that's why he's on the show. But
during the recording of this conversation, I was super unaware

(01:31):
of the fact that Ducane and its football program was
a one double, a non scholarship football program. Didn't even
know that was a thing. And you'll hear my confusion
as to how the best football player in Duqueesne history
want to walk on? All right? Anyway, Lee went undrafted
to the NFL in two thousand three and played for
the Cleveland Browns and Detroit Lions and the infamous New
England Patriots. So a quick note about the episode before

(01:51):
we get into it. It is divided up in roughly
three parts, and if you refer to the episode description
below on your phones, everything has laid out very plain,
very simple, so you can see the structure of the episode.
But just to make it brief, essentially, the first half
hours about Lee's story, his mindset, and his underdog mentality
and the perspective that helped catapult him into a nine
year NFL career. The second part is our quick hitters,

(02:14):
where I asked Lee a ton of stuff and I
honestly got kind of carried away, just completely off script,
asking him random stuff because I was just having a
blast and he didn't mind. Um, but you know, I
asked him about a fun moment from being a part
of the o N sixteen Detroit Lions team. He gives
his story about being released from the Patriots, which ultimately
ended his football career. UM, he talks about a moment
he had with Dion Sanders. He talks about what a

(02:36):
retired thirty year old millionaire does. He talks about some
investments and his favorite purchases and just so much more.
And then, lastly, the third part is just a quick
candid conversation once we finished recording about the moment I
met Lee when he came to a Duquene basketball practice
to talk to our team, uh, and just how I
went about getting him on the podcast. Plus after that
little candid moment, Lee shares his famous commencement speech that

(02:59):
he made into a app that actually explains his life
story and you won't want to miss it. It's great.
I was completely stunned when he did it, and it
was It was absolutely amazing. And I put it at
the end because once you listen to his whole story
and then you listen to the rap, you're like, oh
my god, everything he just said in the podcast, he
just put in this little one minute commencement speech. It
was great. Again, the times are all down below in
the description, so if need be referred to that um

(03:21):
for the structure of the episode. And uh, let me
shut the hell up and let's get into it. Here's
my full conversation with former non scholarship athlete turned at
nine year NFL veteran Lee boden Welle. What's up, man,
Thanks for coming on, and I appreciate you having pleasure
is mind? Bro? This is big time for me, all right.
So let's start it off. UM, coming out of high

(03:41):
school back in to Duquesne, you were technically considered a
non scholarship athlete. Uh why were you non scholarship to
start off? And how long were you a non scholarship
athlete until they started giving you some money? Yeah? So
I was, um, non scholarship and I was just not
Holly to outed because my higst school that I graduated

(04:02):
from wasn't a good high school historically in sports, and
I only went there for two years. I went to
Demand of High School actually my freshman and sophomore year,
and then my junior and senior year I transferred to
the Northwestern where I graduated, and again that high school
wasn't that great in football or basketball. Football. We turned

(04:23):
it around my senior year in high school. We were
one game away from the States, and so you know, obviously,
you know, as far as colleges go, they look for
people their junior years sophomore and they're seeing guys and
knowing about them and knowing about schools, and so nobody
really knew about that school until my senior year. And

(04:46):
that senior year actually propelled younger guys to go on
to the University of Maryland's Georgia Tech Dukes because now
recruits came to that school. So my senior year I
kind of had to shot my tape around my VHS state.
Uh from No No Live man Um, I went up
to Duquese Robert Morris, Waynesburg, and I shipped my tape

(05:08):
to like Le High. A lot of these schools like
one double a school. So so I would say that's
one of the reasons why I wasn't uh you know,
Holly Totter in high school. Um and in University of Maryland.
Actually they saw my tape late again and wanted me
to be a recruiter walk on. But I felt like
I could play right then and there my freshman year,

(05:30):
so I didn't want to wait a year. So again Duquesne,
I was no an scholarship. But you know, obviously you
have a backup plan. It's like, you know, if I
don't make it to the league, I gotta have a
good education. Duquine gave me that, and um so I
picked at school. And yeah, for the first year I
had to pay. I mean, I had grants and things

(05:51):
like that. I don't know the exact number, uh that
my balance was. But no athletic scholarship, no athletic scholarship
at all, just a bunch of grants, um you know
that I filed for. And um again, my parents didn't
make a lot of money, so maybe that was the
reason why I got a lot of grants or whatever.
But um so I had to pay some money. And

(06:14):
then at the end of my freshman year, I wasn't
gonna go back because my mom couldn't pay the money,
m um. So then uh, you go onto like that
after football. Um, you know, they found some money for
me to be able to not be a scholarship, but
I didn't have to pay any longer for those last

(06:35):
three years, right, you were kind of covered. Yeah? Well,
I mean, to be honest, for everything, I was covered
for the balance, I was covered. Uh and from then on,
you know, from pretty much my freshman year to my
senior year. So was there any debt that you had
to pay back from that first year when the grants
maybe didn't cover a little leftover balance that you had

(06:58):
to pay back or you kind made it through those
four years debt free. Yeah. I made it through those
years debt free. Again, the balance that I did have
that my mom was like, I don't know, I'm gonna
pay this. Um. You know, they paid it for me
and and was able to let me stay in Duquesne
because I was ready to transfer it, to be truthfully honest,

(07:19):
because you know, I was going to take that Maryland
offer because I knew it would be cheaper with my mom,
I knew I could play and I was like, if
I just played one year, just get one chance at
University of Maryland, I would be good to go to
the NFL. So when you committed to Duqueese, though, you
knew you weren't gonna get any money, and you had

(07:40):
to go in there with that that mindset. If I'm
gonna go get some money, it's either I play really
good this first year, I'm gonna have to figure something
out and potentially pay a second year. So you they
didn't have they didn't have any more money to give you. Like,
what was the differences back then with you not being
a scholarship athlete versus maybe now as to why that
was the case for you? And you know what the

(08:01):
crazy thing is, And you even say that, I mean,
that wasn't even my mentality to go and get some money,
you know. I mean obviously, because I was a kid,
I wasn't the one paying you know what I'm saying,
So I really, you know, my parents is paying um.
So that wasn't even my mindset. My mindset was just
to go and ball out, man. You know, That's just
what I wanted to do. And that's why I didn't

(08:21):
take the University of Maryland offer. Because they wanted me
to sit out and be a prop for AID all
this stuff, and I was like, no, man, I feel
like I can just go somewhere and play right now.
I felt like I was that good at to play
in college, so that I did that. A dude came
um and and I really didn't do it because of
the mindset of, you know, going to get some money.

(08:42):
It was just I wanted to start. I wanted the
ball because all I had on my mind was again
making it to the league. That's really it, because I
last obviously college, right And lastly, though you didn't, you
technically weren't considered to walk on. You weren't walking around,
and it was like, leasa walk on like you were
fighting for starting spots. You are a part of the team,
but in essence, when you don't have a scholarship, you

(09:04):
technically are a walk on. So yeah, yeah, I mean
technically it is. And again as I grew more mature
and and just aware of the situation and what it was,
that's essentially what everybody's damn there walk on because anybody
could come on the team and come play, So that's
really what it was. But obviously, like you said, I'm

(09:24):
fighting my freshman and I'm fighting for starting spot. Uh.
It was a senior ahead of me and a junior
as well. That's why I didn't get that much playing time.
But a lot of my coaches knew that I should
be playing more than I was. But they put me
in sparingly. But towards the end, Uh, you know, when
we played some tough games against Patre League teams, they

(09:46):
put me in there and I made plays and I
had three interceptions in two games at the end of
that year. And I mean, it ended up working out
pretty nicely for you because even if you were non scholarship,
you were two time All American, senior year, Defensive Player
of the Year, career interceptions, and I almost I'm pretty
sure you were a long jump champion in eight ten.

(10:07):
You were running track a little bit in your spare time. Um,
but like, it's crazy to me that, like the best
football player and all of Duquean's football history started his
career off without any scholarship money and now you're at
the top of the cream always rises to the top,
and so that non scholarship back in college, two time
All American, you go undrafted in two thousand three, and

(10:28):
you end up making the Browns fifty three man Rosster.
You make a name for yourself on the special teams
as a cornerback, and you eventually earn a starting position
on that team and your next two teams. But clearly
you were the underdog in college. Clearly with the underdog
coming into the league, you were slept on. But you
did it. You played nine years at the highest level
in the NFL, and you started for the Browns, Lions,

(10:49):
Patriots all at some point. So what I really want
to get into is that mindset that you had to
fight through all that adversity and get yourself to this
point being counted out and doubted all throughout your career.
So explain what it kind of took out of you
every day to get yourself over that barrier, beat those odds,
change the narrative about yourself, and just not care that
you were the only one that believed in you. Man.

(11:11):
I mean, listen, I don't even really need need to
say much. You said it. All the people need to
hear from you. Man. Yeah, I know, I know, I know,
but you know I could, obviously, you know, put my
personal spin on it. But I mean again, you said
it all. It's it's just not listening to what somebody
else says. I knew the talent that I had in me.

(11:33):
I knew what God gave me. And just because somebody
didn't see it in me, that didn't deter me from
always going out and shining and showing what I had inside.
And was I the best every time? Was I perfect
every time? Absolutely not? But that never UH sunk in

(11:54):
too much, you know, UM to make me believe like
this isn't you you know? UM? And I in my
commencement speech to my high school, uh, my alma mater
in Northwestern High School, I I said it in two
thousand and fourteen. UM, is that like it's no way.

(12:15):
You know, people can take away what is inside of you,
like like it's no way. And and you have to
let everything be fueled. You gotta believe in yourself and
you gotta let everything be fueled. UM. And if you don't, UM,
you know, you're not gonna get to where you want
to go. So battling all these things, I mean at

(12:36):
at the math of High School, they threw me in
in the fourth quarter when the whistle blew. You know
what I mean, as a tenth grader. So I'm running
on the field. I want you to picture this. They say,
lead go in. I'm running on the field, and the
whistle blue and the game is over. You know this
is a sophomore. You know you're fifteen years old. Most
kids want to quit, you know what I mean. Um,

(12:58):
I don't want to quit. I want to go back
and pray this and and show them why I should
be playing. You know, I couldn't wait for practice because
that's my games. You know what I mean. You don't
want to put me in the game. Well, I'm gonna
show you in practice why I should be playing. And
I'm better than every everybody on this uh feel um,
And I'm not gonna be ignored, you know what I mean.
And so that's just what it was. It was always

(13:20):
the fight, and I wasn't willing to back down. I
was always willing to fight to um. And I hate
to say because it wasn't really for recognition, but for
somebody to to finally realize that Lee Boden is is legit,
his talent is legit. And I just wasn't gonna stop until. Um,
I got to the top. Like you said, cream rises
to the top. And always knew in my head. I

(13:40):
was like, Uh, who's going to know me when I
get to the highest level. You know, who's gonna say?
Lee and good enough? Now? You know what I mean?
Sports writers anything. I was great in high school because
they had, you know a lot of people with bigger names. Um,
you know, and obviously you go back and look at
that listen and check and see who made it to
the league and who didn't, you know what I mean? Um,
but not just was always fighting for that relentless pursuit

(14:04):
of just what you wanted and didn't care what anybody
else wanted for you. Um. You know. I believe in
like working on my own daily growth and just having
this constant pursuit like you're talking about, of just ascending
upwards and climbing higher and higher. Um. But there's things
that I need to do mentally to keep myself on
the train tracks, right, Like trick my mind into eliminating
the fear or the doubt that kind of seeps in

(14:27):
inevitably have this sort of like delusional confidence about my
ability and like be able to sustain those things. So
I want to ask you a question about each of
those three things. First, is there anything specific that you
tell yourself that you were telling yourself every day, feeding
your mind to keep the doubt and the fear from
seeping in and just keep you from falling off that
train track. You know, Like I said, they're inevitable thoughts,

(14:48):
They're gonna come. But what would you do to trick
your mind get into like trick your mind into getting
away from those thoughts so you could keep that delusional confidence,
unwavering belief in yourself? Man, you know what I mean?
I would just say at a young age, very young age,
I just again had that confidence. I didn't care what
anybody thought. I just did me. And I think what

(15:10):
sports did was it allowed me to speak, you know
what I mean with my play. I didn't have to
talk with him with anything. And I remember, I tell
this story a lot um because I was in d C.
I lived in d C until I was teen years old.
But then I moved to Maryland and I moved right
next to uh A Rex Center, and you know, all

(15:30):
these kids playing basketball and I was walking in and
I was like, man, who's the best player in here?
Because I wanted to play him because so that would
tell me if I beat him. And y'all tell me
that's the best player, then I you don't have to
tell me I'm the best player, like I know. So
I just would seek these crazy challenges that nobody probably
will seek, you know what I mean. Um, So that's

(15:52):
what made me realize and understand, and it put me
in my mindset, Okay, I'm here, and if I would
have lost to him, then I'm like, okay, well and
here's what I gotta do. So I just played games
like that to myself, to you know, to really make
me realize who I am, you know, I mean, and
where I stood in whatever. So I would say when

(16:13):
I was younger, those are the type of challenges I
put myself through two to make me understand or to say, okay, Lee,
oh here's where you at, you know, and to push
me you know, if I beat him or if I
lost him or whatever. Um And I just took that.
Every single day. I challenged myself in games, uh you
know however, games that I'm playing anywhere everywhere, I just

(16:36):
challenged myself. I feel like that's something that separates like
a professional athlete from someone who maybe had the potential
to be a professional athlete. Is just like, how early
can you grasp Like I feel like, not that I
could have played in the NBA, but like if I
would have had maybe that sort of itch when I
was younger to think about that stuff, like what would

(16:57):
that have done for me? So I always think like, well,
guys in the it probably just clicked with them a
little bit faster, you know. And that's and that's why
I like to talk to you, um children young about
this about the mindset, because that's really what it is.
And God just blessed me to have that mindset at
a young age. To be honest, I don't know why,
you know. I mean, people always ask me, but I

(17:17):
just I just knew it, you know what I mean.
When I was young, and nothing deterred me, nothing stopped me.
Anything somebody said, I would challenge that and say, you know, ship,
I'll show you. You know what I mean backf I
taught myself about backlot. You know, all these crazy just
challenge myself. I'm telling me you I just challenged myself
to juggle to I mean everything, you know, and when

(17:38):
I've seen somebody do it, I'm like, man, I can
do that. And then I just looked at him, saw
how to do it, and just kept practicing and got
good at it. It really sounds like you just never
set any limits on yourself. So like when you were
in this constant pursuit and you picked up on that
mindset super early. Going back to what I was saying
about eliminating the fear of delusional confidence and sustain any

(18:00):
of those things. You know, it's not always peaches and
rainbows once you figure it out, right, So how do
you keep the fire lit inside of you to sustain
the mindset through all those up and downs? I mean,
I would just say continue the same thing as to
continue to challenge yourself whether you want or lose um,
you know, And that's what football does, and that's what
sports does. You watch the film and you look at

(18:22):
what you did wrong, and you have to acknowledge that
that you did that wrong, and now you have to
assess how you can get better. And that's really what
I did assess. And sometimes I mean I used to
sit up at night. When I sit up at night,
but just sleep in my bed and or sit in
my bed, excuse me, and just think about what happened
that day? How could I get better for tomorrow? And

(18:43):
I'm gonna show them to all that I got better,
you know what I mean, And that it's just a
constant challenge yourself every single day and can't wait to
wake up to then go do it again to prove
yourself right and to prove to other people that man,
he did something to get better. Yes on you know
what I mean. Um, And so you're looking like a
different person than what they saw yesterday. And that's just

(19:05):
what UH kept me going, was just wanting to continue
to get better. And again that's what sports does, especially
at the college level and the pro level. You watch yourself,
you see what you've done. And a lot of times
kids they don't self assess, you know, when they hear
bad things that happen to them, it's just, oh, you're
you're going down on me. You're you're hard on me,

(19:28):
and and they shoven that. But me, Um, I took that,
and I was harder on myself than anybody as a kid,
you know. And so and I could self assess what
I did and then I could improve on that based
upon what I know. I would say that most of
and you were a professional athletes who you could tell me,

(19:48):
but most people who are successful in the pros like
have a great deal of self self awareness, like because
you want to get better, you like you want you
want to be the best. So it's like if you're
in that environment and the coaches own you something, you
learn to just not take it personal. And it's more
about just like, you know what, this guy has been
doing this for X amount of years. Let me let
me look at the tape, let me check this out,

(20:09):
and okay, yeah, maybe maybe I do correct, make that
a correction or that adjustment over here. And like for you, though,
when did you as a player, like you had a
moment that you won your coaches over right? Like do
you remember a specific moment in practice or was it
where it was like you know, I belong here, like
I can have a spot on this team, I can
be a starter on this team. Was there any specific

(20:31):
moment when you got to the Browns or even when
you left the Browns went to Detroit Um where that
happened for you to just you know what, like I
belong in this league and I belong to have a
secured contract and all that. Right. Well, again, if anybody
knows me, and everybody that knows me, I had a
lot of confidence, uh and stepping in Uh my rookie year,

(20:54):
I had a lot of confidence. And what gave me
a lot of confidence too, was obviously we had rookie
mini camp, and so all you're doing is facing rookies. Uh.
And I mean obviously you're facing guys from Michigan, mihould
be stayed, you know, uh, Georgia, all these you know,
top places. But that meant nothing to me, you know.
I just was confident in my and my ability, and

(21:18):
so going there with that mindset and going in there
and you know, doing my thing, you know, with the rookies,
I'm like, man, this this is easy. You know. Guys
called me from Buchanan, like, man, how's the league. I'm like,
I was like, this is easy, you know. But it
changed when the veterans came a little bit. But but

(21:38):
when the veterans came, I still had that confidence. And yes,
I got beat you know, um during you know those times.
But I also made my share of plays as well,
and coaches saw that. And it's all about how you respond,
you know, And coaches understand that and see that, and
if you can respond, because they know them starters get beat,
you know, and and them starters gonna have to respond, uh.

(21:59):
And forget about it and going to the next place.
And I feel like I just did that, even though
I was again down to myself some days, I was like, damn,
you know, I don't think I'm gonna make it because
you know, I'm thinking about these plays that I got
beat on or I didn't do that great. But it's
still something that I did great on. But you know,
I would say when the Vets came, it was probably
more um, you know, not so good than good, because

(22:22):
I didn't get that many reps either, um. But but
I would say as as it went along, I started
to make more plays, more good plays than bad plays.
And obviously that's the reason why they saw, uh that
they could trust me. And that's the reason I'm sure
I made the fifty three million Rosster because and then
preseasons coming and uh we scrimmage Buffalo and things like that,

(22:46):
and so I'm showing it every step of the way.
Not only did I show it, like I said during
the rookie camp when the veterans came, that camp, scrimmage, preseason,
you know, so it was just the cons I wouldn't
say it was one thing, but I just would say
it was just the consistent play of me and what
I did. So when you were getting like a lack

(23:06):
of reps when the rookie camp was over and the
Vets came in, like I know, you started off kind
of predominantly on the special teams and then that was
kind of what they started, positioning you at the corner
spot like you were getting I don't know how it
works in the NFL, like, like, are you getting third
string reps? Fourth string reps? As a rookie You're not

(23:27):
even getting a lot of reps, So how did you
even get on the special teams? Like is that just
because they throw guys on the fifty three man roster
into some sort of role. Uh So I would say, man,
starting off, yeah, I was probably third fourth string, you know,
coming in, I mean, you're getting a few reps, And
in my mind, I know I have to make those

(23:47):
reps count, you know, I have to show up on
film to where they're like, man, damn, this guy is good, right,
don't matter how many opportunities I get. And that's what
we all know as athletes. Well we shouldn't know what
people shouldn't know, but just in life in general, when
opportunity presents itself, you better be ready because you may
not get another And so so I had the limited

(24:09):
opportunities and so again I took the advantage of it.
But the one thing I would say that even helped
even more was Butch Davis was a coach and at
the end of the the practice, he would have, like
a lot of the rookies first year and I think
maybe even second year guys like play you know, just
by themselves, you know. So so now I got extra

(24:30):
reps there. So so that helped. And again once they see, uh,
you have ability to uh you know, you have the speed,
you can tackle, you can you know, do a lot
of things. Obviously, if you're not going to be on defense,
then you're gonna have to play special teams. So I
think the times where they knew that I was, you know,

(24:52):
pretty good on special teams was you know, maybe during
training camp, but I'm sure it was against the Buffalo
Bills because uh, you know, it's it's damn there and
no reps and they I mean, I don't know, if
you know, the gunner, which is the guy who's running
down a punt to um tackle the punt returner. Usually
they get double vice. So it's two people on them

(25:14):
blocking them, you know, to get down here. So I
just used to like get down there a lot, you know.
And it's and that's to be honest, that's like it's
like a battle. That's like a fight. I'm gonna fight
with two people and if I could beat them all ways,
you know. So they're like, man, it's those mentalities. You know,
it's it's crazy, you know it is. And and that's

(25:35):
really what I did. And I mean my rookie year
and my my second year, I was really good on
special teams and my second year I actually lead the
team and special teams tackles and only play their games
because I got injured. And I told my pick and
I know, and injuries, you know, played a part in
my career. But I know if I had finished that season,
I probably would have made the Pro Bowl that year

(25:56):
because I was I think the leading special teams tacklers
in the league. He had and I had eighteen and
eight games man, and injuries man, yeah yeah, so um
and I would have you know, propelled me. But you know, uh,
it went the way it went. But just going back
to what you were saying, it was just because they

(26:17):
just saw the fight in me, you know, and so
it's like, we gotta find some way to put this
kid on the field. Yeah. Right. So I want to
ask you one more time, just because I kind of
said it for you in a sense about having like
delusional confidence and not letting yourself get off the train
track with the doubt and the fear, Like how often
did the fear and the doubt creep in on you

(26:38):
where you were like, ship, can I do this? Like?
Can I can I really like keep myself on the
straight and narrow and stay in the league and make
a name for myself. Yeah? Um during a training camp. Um,
like I was telling you, when the vets came, that's
kind of when the doubt it was kind of creeping in.
It's like can I do this? You know? Because again

(27:00):
from Duquesne, I'm barely getting beat you know, if getting
beat at all, And now it's it's kind of coming
more frequently than I like to. You have been beaten,
and so again I know that, So I know the
coaches know that and see that. So I'm like, man,
you know, can I make it? And to be honest, man,
my mom was kind of my rock. I would say

(27:22):
sometimes I used to call her, and she like talks
about this to this day too. Sometimes she's like, you know,
you would call and say, man, Mom, I don't know
if I will make it, um, you know. And it
was days like that. But then um, I would even say, uh, honestly,
it used to be a free Bible in our in
our hotel room. So I would go to a passage. Man,

(27:44):
it was just like, uh, what did it say? All right,
you'll be a reward or God will reward you, um,
when you diligently seek him, you know what I mean.
And so I just kept the faith, you know what
I mean, And kept the faith that God put me
here for this reason. And um, yes I had a
bad day or what I thought to be a bad day,

(28:06):
but that doesn't have to be tomorrow. And so having
you know, somebody to talk to other than myself, other
than God, um was my mom. And then I just
you know, just repped up and was like, man, let's go.
You know, this is what I'm here for. This is
what I wanted all my life when I was young,
And like you said, having just that that confidence that

(28:27):
it's like why you leave, you know what I mean?
It's like and then me it's like why not me?
And and it should be me? And I felt like
it should be me because this has been in my
mind since I was a little kid, and I was
not about to let this dream go. And I'm right
here right now. Um, and it's just being crazy, it's
just being like but he is, like, no one would

(28:49):
think that Lee Boden could make it, you know, but
Lee Boden thought it and and Lee Boden is gonna
make it come true. So now when you look back, like, damn,
he did it, you know, I mean, and that's really
all I wanted was to show people that you didn't
have to be uh, the all met You know that
I wanted to be all Met back in d C.

(29:12):
That's like, you know, it's just the biggest honor that
you get in high school. Uh, But you don't have
to be that. You don't have to go to the
Maryland the Alabama's you can still uh if you believe
in yourself, like I said that, everything be few, you
can make it however you want to make it. You
can create your life however you want to create it.

(29:33):
And you can make that dream that's in your mind
come to life. And and that's just what I did,
no doubt, man, clearly, clearly that's what you did. You
did for the best of your best of your ability. UM,
that's that's that's aspiring for me to listen to. So
I appreciate you sharing that. UM. Before the quick hitter
is the last thing I want to ask you is
you know you mentioned the injuries, and like, just as

(29:55):
someone who kind of had to sort of retire earlier,
I think you retired at thirty one or thirty two
due to probably your ohs thirty due to your injuries. Um,
you know, even though mentally you probably felt like you
still had more to give. UM, what advice would you
give to someone like myself or just people in the
field of sports who have played a particular sport their

(30:16):
entire life and now they're on the brink of their
career ending. They know it's about to come to an end,
and they you know, they're gonna have to start pursuing
new avenues in life outside of that sport and in essence,
find a new identity outside of you just as a player.
So what advice do you give to those people? The
advice that I would give, um is to know that
you're not just that you're not just an athlete. Um.

(30:40):
And that's really what I knew too. I knew I
wasn't just an athlete. I knew, I mean, and we
all are, and but sometimes we don't realize it because
we want this so much. We just encompassed, uh, just
our whole life into this sport. UM. But I would say,
you know, any talents, anything that you are passionate about

(31:01):
other than the sport, you know, don't leave that aside.
Don't like abandon that, I would say, because again, in sports,
it's only gonna be a short run in your life. Again,
I ended that thirty. A lot of people are starting
their life at thirty, you know, starting to get their
money and and find out what they want to do
and what they're good at, um and so and by

(31:23):
that time again most athletes are they done, you know
what I mean. And so you just gotta understand that
you are more than an athlete. And you know, I
would say, spend some time again with yourself and understanding
what you like, what you're good at other than that,
other than the sports. Um. And that's that's, to be honest,

(31:45):
the only thing I can say, because I just knew
I was more than an athlete. And I knew that
one the NFL and they say it stands for not
for long. Um. And again I'm undrafted. I don't know
if tomorrow I'm gonna get cut. So what I did
was and that's one thing that I try to tell
a lot of young people, is it just save your money.

(32:06):
The name of the game is to save money. People
talk about finantural literacy, and you just gotta save your money,
you know what I mean. That's the literacy. That's the
whole literacy about it, you know, because you know they
want you to spend the money, you know what I mean,
to to come back and want more money from them,
you know, from a job or whatever. So um. So
to have that financial freedom, uh, was was what I

(32:26):
wanted and what I knew. And I knew that football
wouldn't last, so um, I would just say, just hone
in on who you are outside of that sport. That's
really all I couldn't say, um, because again we all
know that it's going to end, but your life won't,
you know what I mean. And you have so much
more to give. We all have so much more to
give than a sport to the world because we all

(32:49):
have something inside of us that we can bring to
the world again other than like entertain form of entertainment,
We're here to help people. And and and just like even
you man with this podt casts, it's like, you know
this is to help people, um, and we all have
that somehow in us. And it's like, how do you
be creative with who you are and established that and

(33:10):
and do that for you know, the rest of your life.
I couldn't have said it any better. The one thing
I do want to ask you before I hit you
with some lighthearted quick hitters, is were there any veterans
that took you under your wing along your ride, talk
to the ropes, how to handle your business, invest your money,
and have that kind of professional mindset at a young age. Yeah,
I'm glad you said that one. I mean, I just

(33:32):
had that mindset already, but I wasn't um And I
don't want it to sound like I think I had
it all figured out, but my mindset just was that.
But what I did do as a rookie was always
put myself around those veterans and listen to them and
ask them questions because I knew I wanted to be
in their position, and so I knew if I learned

(33:53):
from them and listen to them, um, you know, they'll
give me some gyms and some jewels that I can take. Uh.
And again I remember Ross Berber, this guy, he's alignment.
I was talking to him and he was like, man,
you know he told me, he was like, save your money, um.
And he was like, trying to pay off or any
big debts or big you know, your house or your
car if you can when you leave the league, you know.

(34:15):
And I did that, you know, I mean, um uh
listening to remember just and I don't know who specifically,
it was in our defensive back room, but guys were like, man,
you need a team when you leave here, you know. Um.
And I was like, Man, a team? What the hell
you mean? A team? You know? I didn't know. And
then as I got older, I understood. You know, people

(34:35):
that can help you in in ways where you're not strong,
you know, and where they're strong as far as you know,
marketing or financial buys or whatever it is. Um, but
just build a strong team around you that's gonna help
you build. Uh. So I would say, man, A lot
of my defensive backs man Dylan mccusheon and Anthony Henry
Robert Griffith or a little Mike Jamison, all these guys,

(34:59):
we're Lewis senators. They were all just influential, even if
they didn't necessarily know it. But I just used to
watch them, uh, ask them questions when I um have
the questions, and they were willing to answer any question
that I had. So so I think it was just
a good group of veterans that I had to be around,

(35:20):
and I was just eager to learn, like a little kid,
you know, That's how it was in that locker room,
just a little kid asking questions and you know, just
trying to be better. It's funny you say that, because,
like I'm twenty three, but I'm still in like a
real I mean, I'm like the second oldest kid on
the team, but I still love being in the position
of just like, who can I ask questions to learn

(35:41):
something new? Who can I talk to about something that
I don't know enough about that can give me some information,
drop some wisdom on me. Like I don't think I
had enough appreciation for that my early years in college.
Not that I thought I had it all figured out,
but kind of like you said, like it was just
how I am like I just you get more curious
as you get older. You want to keep exp ending,
broadening your horizons, learn more. So I feel like I'm

(36:03):
right in the mix of that of just like who
can I and like, you know, talking to you and
hearing this like just absorbing more wisdom, absorbing more knowledge,
like from people older than you, because really like the
wisdom thing, Like my dad always says this stuff to me, like,
you don't get wise until you get older, because you know,
you need the experience of living to get right. Hearing

(36:24):
from you know, people like yourself and just anybody that
is older than me. Uh, And not that you can't
learn stuff from people younger than you, but it's just
like it's stuff that you guys go through, Like you know,
I look at my parents and the things that they've
been through, and I'm like, damn, like how the hell
are you still standing up? Like you know, Like, so
it's just it's, uh, I appreciate it, you know, yeah,

(36:47):
and not and it's true because it's it's like, you wanna,
life is a test, and they got the answers, you
know what I mean, So who doesn't want the answers
to the test. So it's like, go to those people
who happen to like you see, it's not like I
can't learn something from a younger person, but the person
who took the test, I'm gonna go to them first,
you know what I mean, and try to get the

(37:08):
answers uh to you know, aced this test past this test,
and so that's really what it is. They got the blueprint,
like you have the blueprint in front of you on
how to make the NFL. You know, like why would
you go ask a cornerback at Alabama right now on
how to make the NFL who's not there, Like, we're
gonna go ask the guy that did it for nine years,
made millions of dollars. So all right, Walkie Talkies at

(37:29):
that time quick break, stay with us to hear the
second part of my conversation with Lead to hear him
talk about some memories he has with Tom Brady, Bill Belichick,
some things he remembers about his own sixteen Detroit Lions team,
uh moment he had with Dion Sanders, and how Lee
Boden's career ultimately came to an ends. All coming up next,
and remember you can follow Walkie Talkies podcast on Twitter, Instagram,

(37:52):
and TikTok at w t z podcast and you can
follow myself on Twitter and Instagram at snow dot three.
This is Walkie talk Podcast with your host me Noa Bono. Alright, folks,
let stay with us. We'll be right back, and Walkie
Talkies Podcast on the College Athletes Network featured on I
Heart Radio is back. I'm your host, Noah Bono. Please

(38:13):
make sure you are subscribed to Walkie Talkies Podcast on
the I Heart Radio app or whichever app you listen
to your podcasts on so that you don't miss any episodes.
We wouldn't want that to happen. And let's bring back
in my guest, nine year NFL veteran Lee boden Um.
All right, so some quick hitters for you if you
can remember. I'm sure you have something in mind. What's
the craziest thing that happened to you while you were

(38:34):
in the NFL? Mm hmm, craziest thing that happens to
me in the NFL? Um, you know, I don't know,
you know? And what's considered crazy, man, I don't know,
like someone maybe burning, like someone who shouldn't have beat you,
got a touchdown on you. You're making a crazy play
that maybe you never played, maybe you got on offense

(38:56):
one time called a pass. I don't know what's the
like anything that stands out about Yeah, literally anything could
be off the field in the locker room. I don't
know if somebody like put it in your locker I
don't know. Man, I'll tell you what, man quote now
that you said that, just locker them because on the field,
I mean, there's a bunch of stuff that it's running

(39:16):
through my hand. But I wouldn't consider them too crazy.
But man, like seeing guys like like fight, like you
know what I'm saying, Like straight up, straight up, straight
up fist fight. And this was right before we took
off for a plane ride. I mean, and they both
of them was knotted up, they wearing glass and it

(39:37):
was all from something stupid that was in the shower.
It was like dumb. But what I would say, I
would say, yeah, yeah, I've seen you know, crazy fight.
And it was a veteran man. I was like, the
hell did you go? But we had to just let
a fight because it's like, man, you know what I'm saying,
We gonna let y'all just get it out, you know
what I mean? And then let's move on. How long
did it was that verse younger guy a vet verse

(40:00):
as a younger guy, and the VET kind of started it.
I mean, he wasn't too young. He wasn't too young,
I mean, but he was, you know, young in the league.
I was saying, maybe he was like four years in
the league. Maybe did he win? Did he hold his own?
He held his own? Man, he held his own. But
you know, I couldn't score about you know what I mean,
because I was just trying to make sure because they

(40:21):
we was like, you know, he was like, man, I
don't go ahead and take it outside, man, And we
were just like just get it out and then kind
of e gauging when we felt like it was supposed
to be over. You know what I'm saying. We wasn't
really counting the blows. So you were calling that the
craziest moment because it's that the only one you've seen,
and when it happened, you were like, are these dudes

(40:42):
really fighting right now? Like I've seen a little skirl,
another skirmish, But it wasn't to that extent, you know
what I'm saying. It wasn't to that extent where they
just like it was like you know, like a schoolyard fight,
like we boy this fight after school type thing. And
we were both walking out like okay, we're about the fight.
The other one was like, you know, just kind of
spread a moment, you know what I mean. Uh, he didn't,

(41:04):
you know, and then it was real quick and then
it was over. But this one was like all out
like you know, then then then here it comes, you know. Uh, yeah,
you gotta say the name. It's cool, you know, pon
that number one, number two. You know. Um, you said
you had a couple of moments in your head that

(41:25):
happened on the field. If if they're small or they're
just they're frequent, just throw one out there because I'm
you know, I mean, I would just say. And they
were like surreal moments. I mean it was like when
Dion Sanders was playing that's an idol of mine, is like,
and then he was like down on the uh he
was pump returning and again, like I said, I was
a gunner and I didn't even see who was back there,

(41:45):
and um, you know, I beat the guys and then
made the tackle. But as I was running down I've
seen it was den. I'm like, oh hey, yeah, So
I tackled him. I was like, I was like, get
your old ass off the field, but it belong back here,
you know. But h what I was just, you know,
I had to say something to that. I don't want
to say. I didn't want to say, hymny thing, you're

(42:06):
my favorite player. He doesn't remember, but I remember that
moment of course, yeah, because he's probably had a thousand
people tackle him and say the same thing. You know. Um, So,
is there a specific moment exchange or memory or maybe
just a nugget that you've gotten, you know, maybe just
a moment or memory that you have with Bill Belichick

(42:28):
and Tom Brady during your two two years stint with
the Patriots. You mean individually or collectively, or it could
be one individually. Yeah, I mean like one one of
each of them, because I'm sure you're around Tom and
so saying rephrase it all the time, say like a
specific moment exchange that you had just memory with Tom

(42:51):
with Bill? Yeah, I mean again, it's it's a few
of them, man. But Tom, I remember one time we
were and what he was in the training room where
we kind of do some rehab and I was going
in there too, and you know, he had like some
music playing that. I didn't think he would be playing
that music, you know. I was like, damn, Tom, you
listen to this? He was like hell yeah, but it

(43:12):
was what was the song? You must be used to
me spending all that one and and done and um
getting you two nine? So I forgot who Who's song
or something like that because I didn't pick up one.
But um, but like that was a crazy I couldn't

(43:33):
believe he was listening to that. And Bill Bill, I
would say nothing specific. Well, I would say when I
first talked to Bill, um when they were about to
saw me my rookie year, I mean, I was like
shock that he knew a lot about me. But I
mean obviously he I mean, he's a guru, so he's
gonna you know, do his research and homework. Um. But

(43:56):
I mean, and I didn't know how down the earth
he was, you know, because you see his uh, his interviews,
and it looked like he just unapproachable. You can't talk
to him. He's just dry and uh, but he's um,
you know, far from that. Um. I mean obviously Kenny
b yeah, but but personally, um, he's he's really you know,
down on earth. He has a sense of humor. Uh,

(44:18):
and you can talk to him. So um, I would say,
just that moment, that first moment um was was dope.
And then just and I would say, and I tell
this to people all the time. Uh, when I kind
of first got there, I don't know remember when it was,
but but when we watch the film, Bill was like, Tom,
what then you just throw it to the flat, you know,

(44:42):
like He's like, get a sack, and this is in
front of the team. And so that's I think that's
how um, he got everybody to be on board with
what he was talking about because he wasn't just ragging
on you know, the free agents or the lower people
on the totem pole. He just expected, you know, everything
from Brady and afraid to say it in front of everybody.
And Brady took it, you know, didn't you know, lash

(45:05):
back as Brady you know could have done. But but
it was just that energy and that synergy that they
had that you know, when you see it, it's like, Okay,
I see why they win a lot of games because
nobody has like a big ego necessarily, and and everybody
can be coaching. Everybody is down on the earth and
and we're all working for one common goal. So I
think that was huge for me to see, ye for everyone, Yeah,

(45:29):
because like when when it starts with your leader. And
obviously Tom at that time had three Super Bowls and
the one lost to the Giants. Um you know, you
know none none, you only had yeah, three of them things? Right,
So the wait, but were you there? Were you there

(45:50):
in two thousand eleven when they lost to the Giants
or were you not there? But that was the year, Um,
I had my injury. So I had back surgery in
um in December of that year. So you were you're
playing in that season up until that point, like kind
of right before the playoffs started. Yeah. Well, and I
would say it was like mid season, okay, mid seasons

(46:13):
when I stopped well, when I had the surgeries was December,
but my injury was around like October November, and then
that was kind of the that was the rap that raped.
So yeah, I mean I got released actually, and that's
another story for another time because that was you know, crazy,
but um, well, yes, so I got released in the

(46:34):
middle of that year. Do you mind if I asked,
do you mind if you explain that story? If you don't,
we don't have time. It's okay. Oh yeah, no, I
mean yeah, so um, I would say, I mean the
first game of the season, I hurt my back. It
was Monday night versus Miami. Uh. And then from then on,

(46:56):
I just had injury after injury with my throwing my hip,
my back, and then it was messing with my right
side of my leg and so I noticed it and
I was I was getting atrophy in my knee, my
foot was becoming number and I was playing like this
in some of these games, uh in two thousand eleven.

(47:18):
But and I told the team. And but after the
first game Miami, I knew I had a problem, and
I went to go get m R. I you know
that Monday, and they told me, um that a lot
of guys backs looked like this. And so it's just
playing through the pain. And so I'm like okay, uh.
And then so now, like I said, and then fast forward,

(47:40):
I'm playing with this pain atrophy and my my quad
and I'm lifting. Man, I'm lifting harder on my right
leg because I see it getting smaller and I feel
the pain, but I'm just pushing through it. Uh. Then
by week comes and I just wake up and I
could barely move, and I'm like, oh my god, how

(48:01):
am I gonna come back to New England off the
bye week and be hurt? Because I mean a lot
of people don't notice, but if you're hurt during the
bye week, or if you're hurt period, like you gotta
get treatment and you know, to try to get yourself back.
But I was, I was okay again because I was playing.
I had played the last game I forgot. We played
maybe the Cowboys, I believe, and so you know, I

(48:23):
played through everything, um, and they knew it. But I
went home. But coming back they would have been like, Lee,
why didn't you stay for treatment? You know, you should
have stayed for treatment. How could you get hurt? Blah
blah blah. And so I knew I was gonna go
through with that. So I went um through that week
with that. But and then I could barely I could
barely move, you know what I mean. And I'm but

(48:44):
I'm still out there playing, uh, and it wasn't getting
any better. And so now I got into it with
a coach. At one time, actually almost fought Brian Flores.
I mean I shoved him, you know, and kind of
got into a heated debate and um, you know, so
all this was a current um during you know that time.
And then my d back coach just and one time

(49:06):
talked to me. It was like, well, Lee, we don't
think you're on the same page as us. And I
was like, I don't think you're on the same page
as me, you know what I mean, Like I'm hurt,
you know what I mean, y'all pushed me out here
and I can't barely move and you're expecting all this
stuff from me. Um, And like the next day, um,
they released me. Uh and you know he wasn't You're
not supposed to really release somebody when they hurt. But

(49:26):
I signed the papers because I felt like I could
if I just you know, rehab and and you know,
not practice that much like I could. I could still
play because I was still playing, but they were like
kind of pushing me to the brink where in practice,
I mean, I can't do much. And so you know,
then Kansas City actually wanted to sign me, and it
got it got me in a visit with Romeo Cornell

(49:49):
and Romeo Carnell because he knew me from Cleveland. He
was a head coach at Cleveland, so he was deeper
as the coordinator at Kansas City at the time, so
he wanted to bring me in. Um. But then I
took a physical and and I ain't really passed their physical,
but they didn't want to fail me because they were like,
I know a lot of teams want to sign you,
so we don't want to put that out there, like,
but they were like, go get a second opinion. So

(50:10):
I got a second opinion. Uh. Then I had to
have surgery. Uh. And then I thought about trying to
come back from it. But uh, some days I would
feel great, some days I would feel bad. And I
knew I couldn't go through a sixteen game season like
that or even a training camp like that because some
coaches gonna want you to practice all the time. And uh.
And and you know, I was like trying to push

(50:32):
out one or two more years and risk you know,
even further injury, like was it worth it? So so
I was like that whole spiel, you know, where I
got released in damn settlements and all of that. I
went through all these settlements and crazy things with the
Patriots contractually. Um yeah. And then I mean because you
had guaranteed money from them, you had four I think

(50:54):
I read it was fourteen guaranteed on like a thirty
mile deal, so like they had to give you all that, right, Yeah,
well they had to give me the guaranteed money, not
not guaranteed. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um. So, I mean, you
know that was a good thing that obviously I saw
some guarantee. But um, you know, at the end of
the day, you want to play, you know what I mean. Um,

(51:15):
And you never want to get injured and and just
leave like that. And I think, I mean, I think
they they should have handled it a little bit better.
But maybe you know, because how I handled it as
far as like, because I was, you know, kind of
piste off, like y'all wasn't acknowledging, you know, my injury.
And then when I got when I got yeah, when
I got the second opinion, they said the doctors said that,

(51:38):
oh yeah, the Patriots wrote it down right here, you
had herniated this, you know, But they told me, you know,
something different. They just they didn't tell me the actual
thing that was wrong with me, you know what I mean.
And so it was, you know, it was a little
you know, messed up man. But that's the nature. That's
what the businesses and a lot of people do not
talk about that, and a lot of people know that
that's what occurs in the business, and it's it's messed up,

(52:02):
but you know, it is what it is. Man, What
can you do? You know as a player, that's why
we have a union. But the union you know, don't
necessarily fight that much for us. So it just sucks.
You didn't get to go out on your own terms,
you know, just like, but you know what, and that's
what I wanted to do, and I think a lot
of players want to do that, but a lot of
players it don't happen because injuries, unfortunately, do happen. And

(52:26):
obviously age is gonna happen. And then when your pay
is up there, you know, they're gonna want to get
somebody cheaper. Uh you know, you're getting older, you know
what I mean, They're like, you lost the step and
we can get this young guy in. So you know,
a lot of times it's not because of your play.
A lot of times, you know, when you start to
get into it's a business, and when you start to
get into those millions and uh, you know contractually, um,

(52:51):
they'll just uh, you know, do whatever they need to
do business wise. To suit them, to suit them, right, yeah,
all right, I appreciate you sharing that. I got like
three more back to the lighthearted quick hitters for you.
If there's one thing, one fun thing that you can
remember about being a starter on that O N sixteen
Lions team in that season, what would it be? What

(53:13):
would that one or maybe two fun things about that
year be, because it's a lot of you know, that
was probably really hard to go through every single day
and with and withstand the scrutiny and just the ship
probably all the teams you were playing, We're talking to you,
like what what was the one fun thing about that?
So the one fun thing about that season, and that
sticks out easy, it was playing on Thanksgiving because as

(53:36):
a kid, as a kid, always watching the Thanksgiving game,
and you know, Detroit Dallas used to always play doing
Thanksgiving and so it was like day, you know. And
even though we got RS beat blown out quick to
so and that brings up a crazy moment. I remember, um,

(53:56):
right after half time, I kept asking people behind me.
I was like, what time is it? Man? Because I
had a flight to catch. I was like, man, I
hope they just run this clock out. I'm even catch
my flight. That's all. Every time I came back to
the bench, I was asking what time is it? Damn
it was. I mean it had to be. That had
to be probably very very minimal amount of fun moments

(54:17):
going on in that season. Like it probably just had
to be, like it was so tense and just like
I don't know if it was toxic. I know there's
stuff with the Lions organization about ownership and why Calvin
Johnson left and all that kind of stuff, but you
know that had to be playing a major factor in
that season for you guys. Yeah, yeah, that's but at
the end of the day, you're still playing the game,

(54:38):
so you have some type of enjoyment in that, you
know what I mean, But now too much of the
other stuff outshadows it, you know what I mean. Um,
so that's the only like great spot is again you
get to still play the game that you love. Yeah,
you know what I mean. But it's like, I mean,
we're going into it, not saying we're going into it
and no one we're gonna lose, but like we it's
like we might not have a chance, you know what

(54:59):
I mean. Um, But but I mean, to be honest,
like you feel like you don't have a chance no
matter what. But I mean it's collectively everybody has to
be on the same page. And we were in Yeah
we were in a lot of those games, but you're
in a lot of those games. But it's just winning
the closes and that that was just the disappointment. You know,
a lot of times was um, you know, at the

(55:21):
end of the game, not being able to just execute
it in Do you ever get a lot of ship
like now that you're retired about being on that team
like yours, Like, oh yeah, my boys all the time,
all the time, all the time talking about that that
was a year because a lot of times, you know,
when somebody asked me who I played for, like the

(55:44):
Lions is like the last team, I say, like, I
don't even want to say that, because that was that
was your only year there, right, that was my only
year there. Um. But but I talked about it all
the time because you know, I look at it and
I didn't really want to go to the lines. And
they weren't that bad the year be four. I mean,
well they went eight and eight, but I believe they
lost their last eight games. I think they did. I

(56:05):
think they won the first eight and I think the
last something crazy yet something crazy. But I didn't want
to go there. But I'm like, you know what, I'm
just gonna go make the best of the situation. This
is what my life gonna be. Uh. Then, but when
sixth team comes in again, guess who's calling my agent,
you know, asking about me? It is Bill Belichim, you
know what I mean. You know, one of the greatest

(56:26):
coaches to ever coach, you know what I mean. So
um so it's like, you know it was written to
be that way. Uh did I want to be on
that team? You know, Calvin Johnson want to be on TOMPs.
But it was the case and you just had to
put your best foot forward. And and it wasn't like
every single game I set up there and gave my all.
I remember one time, I promise you and this is

(56:48):
going back to the Thanksgiving game. People was like leave,
why are you practice? Is all? I was like, because
we want to be on television, Like I'm not about
to get embarrassed on Televion, the national television on thanks
All right, folks, just another quick break, but make sure
you stay with us to hear Lee talk about which
receivers in today's game he'd like to cover most and

(57:09):
also how he views himself after he does good verse
quote unquote all time receivers super interesting perspective. So don't
go anywhere Walkie Talk his podcast. We'll be right back
and we're back. This is what You Talking podcast and
College Athletes Network featured on I Heart Radio. Please make
sure you're subscribed and downloaded so you don't miss any episodes.

(57:30):
Maybe even leave a review that'd be super appreciated as well,
and make sure you stay to the very end so
you can hear Lee Baden's commencement speech about his life
in a wrap. Really good stuff down there at the end.
But let's get through the rest of this conversation because
I know we're all joining it. And then just make
sure you stay at the end. This was your friendly
reminder all right, time, going to shut up, bring Lee
back in. Um what current receiver would you love? The

(57:54):
guard in the NFL right now? Obviously like DeVante Adams
kay and even what's my guy from Hill from Treki
I would have loved it, you know, because I just
wanted to guard all the best. And like I told
you when I was younger, it's like I stepped to
the gym, and like who's the best? You know, so

(58:15):
then you don't have to call me the best. But
what I did with the best, I played very very
well against the best, So that has to mean that
I'm considered the best as well. You don't have nobody
has to say, No sportswriter has to say it. But
I know if y'all telling me he's the best, if
I faced him and did good, then that means I'm
considered I should be considered one of the best. So

(58:37):
I would say those guys right now, Hopkins, you know,
um Adams, who in your nine years do you think
you checked the best? Like? Was it Randy Moss? Was
it Terrell Owens? Uh? Chato Sinko? Like who Chato sino u?
And And it's not to say i'mem inber one game

(58:57):
he had a great game against me. But for the
most part, I play very well against him, and to me,
he's a Hall of famer. Uh. And I mean I
had a great game against uh? Uh? What's my guy named?
Then I don't know why I drew Blake Marva Harrison.
You know I was and I was with Detroit. I mean,

(59:17):
you can go back and you know people could watch
the film and see um and again you can look
at the stats, mean he had like two catches for
you know, I don't even know. Um, but Dallas Clark
actually killed us that game too. But but but I
would say, um, I had good games against Andre Johnson too. Um.
But again did I I the real reeves them, you

(59:39):
know what I mean? But my help my own and
to be honest, sometimes that goes with the defense, you
know what I mean. I can't really we're not a
man a man all the time. But the times that
I had man and man, you know, I one more
than I lost or you know, maybe it was even
you know what I mean, but uh, or or if
I lost more, you know, then you know it's right there.

(01:00:00):
You know. It wasn't where somebody just was killing me
all game. But I was just always wanting to play
against the best again to see I stood up against
you know, I was my own sportswriter, you know what
I mean. I'm like, okay, you did well, you know
what I mean. Um, I didn't need nobody's you know,
um article to say leaves the best, you know, and

(01:00:20):
I get that respect from those guys off the field
and the offseason I used to see him, and I
got respect from and even to this day when when
Chad talks about me um or talks and they asked,
you know what, and they asked him a lot like
what corner Um was in your era that was really
really good, that didn't get that much much recognition. And

(01:00:43):
he would always say me. And they would ask him
who was like a tough cover that you know, nobody
you know, really knows, and he would say my name too.
So it's just getting a respect from those from your peers,
the coaches, you know what I mean. That's really what
I did it for. I didn't really need no sportswriters
or fans of love me for. It was just respect
from those guys. So last too, obviously a retired NFL veteran.

(01:01:07):
And I want to know, there's a little two parter.
What's a guy retired at thirty after your recovery make
a bunch of money You're literally only thirty years old,
Like what do you what do you do on an
everyday basis? I'm sure for extended period of time you
gotta just be chilling. And then you're like, you know,
I gotta do something. I want to do something so
what is it? What is a guy at thirty years
old doing after making a ton of money in the league. No,

(01:01:29):
that's exactly what it is. You know, you're just chilling
because and but like you said, you spent all your
life doing this, So it's like what else do I do?
You know? Who else am I? Um? And when you
have a lot of money, that's really what you do
as far as work. You work for the money to
be able to retire, so you cannot do nothing, you know,
I mean, but what You're thirty and you got the

(01:01:52):
whole rest of your life, so you cheer for a
little bit. Then it's like, man, what do I want
to do? So you just started trying to figure out
what you like, what you enjoy because, like everyone says,
when you do something that you love, it's never a job.
So you don't want a job again because I just
put the work in to be able to make all
this money. I don't really want to work anymore, you

(01:02:14):
know what I mean? So so, but but what can
you do again as a job or as work that's
just as enjoyable as football was? So if you just
find that, Um, I opened up a gym because I
like helping people, like I said, and health goes, fitness goes,
and just I know that fitness and health goes a
long way with the mindset. You know we talked about earlier,

(01:02:37):
and so it was just wanting to get um, those
people were to have the right mindset in the community
that I was close to, the community that was raised
in giving them a gym that was low costs, but
um it was great amenities and a great facility. So
I did that for like, you know, five years, six
years right before the pandemic. And then but then I traveled,

(01:03:01):
to be honest, like I went and travel the world.
So I want to follow up quickly. I know I
keep saying last question, but I don't even give a ship. Um.
You you opened up three retro fitness Change. You put
like a one point two million of your own money
into that, and I read that you were gonna just
reinvest the profit back into the business, probably not put

(01:03:21):
much of your own money back into it. Um, So
you don't do that anymore. You said you did it
for five years up until the pandemic. Like you're if
you kind of segue out of that, Yeah, yeah, I did.
I sag out of that and so I'm out of
that completely. UM. And now I do real estate. I
have some properties in d C and in Baltimore, so

(01:03:41):
I do that, um. And that's not something that I
have to you know, I have a property manager, so
they take care of that, and and we go at
the end of the year and you know, talk about
everything that we need to do, either reinvest money or
anything we need to do as far as structurally to
the place. And so so I just you know, like
the freedom of uh not necessarily clocking into a job

(01:04:04):
or or just uh, you know, with the gym, it
was a lot because I had to in a sense, man,
you had the babysit some people, you know what I mean, Um,
and that didn't have the mindset that I had. And
it's difficult to adopt for them to adopt the mindset
that I have, because I mean, you would have a
few guys and a few people, but the staff needs

(01:04:27):
to adopt it. And um, you know, it really wasn't
the case. And I didn't want to you know, um,
well one, with the pandemic what's going on. In two,
it was just you know, hard to find you know,
the right people to be able to do that job. Because,
like I was telling my friends just the other day,
these are people that want to This isn't their career necessarily,

(01:04:48):
you know, they just want a job, you know what
I mean. So it's like they don't they can care
less about it, you know what I'm saying. So, but
but it was fun nonetheless, Uh, And it was something
you know, I did, and and I wanted to learn
how to to be honest, I wanted to learn how
to start a business, uh, from like the ground up.
And I knew I would have to do that or

(01:05:09):
to make the least mistakes, I would have to go
with an already established business to be a franchise z
um to kind of follow their bootprint on what to
do and how to do it. And so that just
helped me, uh, just to have some knowledge on how
to do it if I wanted to do it on
my own or do any you know, build any business alone.

(01:05:30):
Did you kind of wait until the end of your
career to really like invest your money into like whether
it was stocks, real estate, buying businesses? Like did you
do any of that while you were making that money
or was it just like put it in a savings account?
And then I'm gonna, you know, play with this money
when I when I retire, Well, um, it was put
in a saving savings account first, but then my money

(01:05:54):
was mostly in the market. I didn't do any outside
investing because that's really get handed my money to somebody
and I don't know really what they're doing. So I
put most of my money like in the stock market, bonds,
stocks and bonds to let it grow. Uh. And then
so I can you know when I'm done possibly whatever

(01:06:15):
I get into now I can be at the head
of it and understand where my money is going, what
what it's doing, who's doing this, who's doing that, And
to just you take hold of my money instead of
just giving it to somebody and just letting them go
without me having any type of I want to say

(01:06:35):
the input and what's going on. Okay, this is literally
the last one, I swear to God. So the coolest
thing you've ever bought, It doesn't have to be the
most expensive, but like coolest thing you own that maybe
you use the car, piece of jewelry, uh, an amenity
in your house. Coolest thing you bought. Yeah, I mean
I would just it comes to mind like a Ferrari. Yeah, ok, yeah,

(01:07:03):
and the crazy thing about it, that is, in two
thousand ten, That's Ferrari California came out and I had it.
It was on a cover of a magazine. I still
got this magazine to this day. It might be somewhere
in my office somewhere. Um, but I put it on
my coffee table. I could. I could afford it then,
but I just, you know, I just didn't feel like
I needed to buy it at that time. But I

(01:07:25):
was like, man, I'm gonna get this car because it
was always love convertibles and this and I like hard
talk convertibles and it was it wasn't many hard talk convertibles,
but this one was. And so but so I bought
it like maybe five years later, you know, two thousand
and fifteen, I think I bought it. And so I
love it, you know because again it's a hard talp.
It's a convertible. Um to drive it whenever wherever. So,

(01:07:49):
oh yeah, that ain't going nowhere. I don't know if
you know, first Bueller, you know that movie, So that
car is the California Ferrari California. They just three, um
you know, made it, you know, kind of obviously spiced
it up a yeah. Yeah, and so that's that's the California. Yeah,
that's tough. You gotta take me for a spinning that

(01:08:11):
one day to d C. All right, man, that's a
rapid Lee Boden, nine year NFL veteran. I appreciate you
sharing your mentality, your growth, mindset and just what what
it took to sustain this long of an NFL career
and make the money you did and and just like
inspire the people you've inspired along the way. And you know,

(01:08:32):
I appreciate you sharing your story and just you know,
be willing to come on the show. It's been hard
to especially people of your caliber, you know, professional former
professional athlete, like helping a kid out like me. I
only started this podcast, like I'm eleven weeks in. I
started in early September, So for you to be one
of my first twenty five guests, I really couldn't thank

(01:08:52):
you enough. So I appreciate you, man. I'm gonna appreciate you.
And it's good that you know what you're doing. And
like you said, I mean, Duke came obviously love man,
but you know to be able to do this man
on your own and start this and just try to
uplift people and and just put out content and just

(01:09:13):
this is you know, obviously something that you want to do.
And so I always want to support people, uh that
you don't have dreams and and that starts something you
know and and want to see it through and finish it.
And and I'm again if I got to come on
again and we can talk about something else, man, But
now I appreciate you for having me and just continue

(01:09:34):
success with you and this podcast. Man, Thank you, brother,
appreciate it. I was a little nervous come up to
you at the at the gym because I'm like, brothers, dude,
don't want to know. And that's what, like you said,
the delusional confident, Like I mean, yeah, you would think
somebody may say no, but listen, you gotta ask. You

(01:09:56):
know what I kept like when I asked you that
question about like what do you feed your mind for
that delusional confidence? Like in those moments, like a couple
of years ago, I would have shied away, but I've
just instilled in my mind like close mouth don't get fed. Man,
I gotta go. I'm just walk like I don't. I've
been denied plenty of times. Closed mouths don't get fed, Yo,
you want to be on my podcast? I couldn't think

(01:10:18):
twice about it. Yeah, and most and that's what you
gotta do. And that's how you know you're successful, you
know what I'm saying. That's how you get people on.
I mean like if they say no, they say no,
but ship I mean if they may say yes, but
you'll never know if you don't never ask, you know
what I mean. And so do that, like you said,
change your mindset. And that's how it was even at

(01:10:40):
a young age. I mean we didn't talk about this,
but my freshman year, I was nervous. I didn't even
go out for the football team because I did have that.
And I probably should have shared that. I wish I
would have because it was again, it was a part
of my commissment speech, and it told my whole life. Um,
my commissment speech in like two minutes. It was like
a rap um and I was actually gonna do it

(01:11:01):
in front of the team, but I didn't do it
just because I felt like I was talking too much.
You know what I'm saying. Yeah, but maybe I'll just
do it even on here and you could just even
piece it together. But just before that, my ninth grade year,
I was nervous to go out for the team, just
because the Matha is one of the top high schools

(01:11:21):
here for sports. So I was like, man, I was thinking, man,
am I good enough? You know? I mean, I was
like a little nervous to go out and play, so
so I didn't even go out. But then I was like, man, basketball, though,
I try to go out because I knew I was
nice and basketball, but then I didn't get the grades,
so I didn't get a chance. And then I got
to a point was I was like, man, am I
good enough to even play with them? You know? So

(01:11:43):
but then that next year, I was like, in a way,
I don't give a hell, I'm going out, you know.
And so that's why I went out for the sophomore
team with JV. But that's when I didn't play that
much and I was upset. Um and then basketball I
got I get them in probation again, so I didn't
um get to try out the basketball. So I was like, man,
I gotta go to a different school. So that's kind

(01:12:06):
of again, like you said, just shipping my mind set,
like man, being scared or whatever, like is this what
you want? Lee? You know? What I mean. If it is,
then go all away. You know what I mean. And
that's what like you said, this is what you wanted
to ask me, you know what I mean. Fun if
you say no, whatever, Yeah, I would I would have lived.
I would have lived. You know, I would have been bummed,

(01:12:28):
but I would have been like, all right until the
next guy. Who the hell's the next guy? Right? You
know what I'm saying. And you really weren't even a
walk on like you kind of I don't know. I
guess the times we're different back then, but like like
I said on the show, like you didn't get yourhip
paid for, so technically you were I walk on And
I was like, yeo when you right when you said
non scholarship, I was like, because you said it right

(01:12:48):
in the beginning, I was like, all right, I'm gonna
listen to everything that this this guy has to say,
but I know exactly what the funk I'm doing. When
when when this huddle breaks, right, that's mom made up
and that's what you And then not only did you
have your mind made up, but then you actually follow
through with what was in your mind. And that's what
people don't do. They have it in their mind, but

(01:13:10):
then something takes it out of it. You know what
I'm saying. But you gotta execute what's in your mind
and then you know, see what happens after that. You
know what I mean. But so go ahead, but no,
so so I was gonna say, um, and maybe you
could should even play this for the time it's on,
it's online, so but I'm just gonna say it anyway,

(01:13:32):
just just us right, So so here it dog. So
figuring out what you want to be in life is
a struggle for me. It all changed once I stepped
aside the huddle as a kid. I never did it
for the fortune of fame. I did it for the
respect and the love for the game. The love got
a little taint it once I hit the tenth grade,
a sophomore at the maatham Man Your Boy barely played.

(01:13:56):
They threw me in in the fourth quarter as the
final whistle. Blue had questioning myself like this is what
you want to do. I was unhappy and my grades
went down. I knew it wouldn't get better until another
school was found. Northwestern came into picture and gave me
every opportunity. Around the same time, I started speaking of
God fluently and he gave me two rules. He said,

(01:14:19):
believe in yourself and let everything be fueled. I went
on a B, M v P and both respective sports.
I thought it didn't matter because I was in those
sports writers thoughts. They didn't recognize me as one of
the best in my position. So listening to God's number
two rules, I would make that my mission. I landed
at du Came, where I broke every record football track

(01:14:43):
even in the n c A A Section number one
or number two on all of those lists. So it's
no way the NFL could pass up on this. But
Draft day came, name wasn't even selected. I had so
much faith, ego not affected. I signed with the Brown
as a free agent and spent two years as the

(01:15:03):
starters replaced me. The third year came and I thought
it was the charm. I started Opening day I could
have swore I was on. But two weeks later, in
three games straight, I sat on the sideline and didn't
even dress. Outside I didn't care, but inside I was
a mess. I respoke to God and he said it

(01:15:24):
was a test. He said, be strong, don't stop you
the best I started the last ten games. I can't
believe it. He was right. I signed million dollars deals
me and my future looking right. The next six years
I started for every team, I retired, opened a gym.
Now I'm starting another dream. I know to be successful,

(01:15:45):
I gotta keep the same tools and always remembering his
two golden rules, believe in yourself and let everything be fueled.
And I said, you know, so that's pretty much my
whole life. Bro. You know what I'm saying in an
inter rap, What a vibe? What a vibe? Man? Thanks
to Lee coming on the show. He you know, he

(01:16:05):
conquered the journey in every facet and it's just the
epitome of the ultimate underdog. Uh. You know, I've really
enjoyed this whole process with Lee and putting together this
script and just being able to interview him. I thought
it came out really well. Uh So, I do just
want to say thanks again to my guy Lee Bottom
for coming on. I left his social media's in the
description below as well, so you can find those there

(01:16:28):
as for next week. Next week will mark the start
of brand new Wakie Talkies content and interviews, so stay tuned,
and as always, my last two favorites before we sign off,
as to please leave the show, a rating and a
small comment and tell us how you feel. That can
be done on the Apple podcast app under the show.
It would really really help. It's very big for the show.

(01:16:50):
When we get reviews and stars, you can start whatever
the hell you want. Man uh um, No hard feelings.
You didn't like it, fine, but please just go leave
those views. And lastly, make sure you are subscribed in
downloading the episodes on the I heart Radio app or
whichever app you listen to your podcast on so you
don't miss any All right, Walkie Talkie, See you next

(01:17:13):
week and remember walkie talkies. This a production of I
Heart Radio and the College Athletes Network. For more podcasts

(01:17:35):
from my Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,
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All Episodes

EP #4 | 9yr NFL Vet - LEIGH BODDEN / Non-scholarship & Undrafted

Episode Transcript

Host

Noah Buono

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP #4 | 9yr NFL Vet - LEIGH BODDEN / Non-scholarship & Undrafted