EP #9 | Machaela Simmons: Duquesne University Women's Basketball Walk-on |

Machaela "Mac" Simmons, was a 3 year walk-on for the Duquesne University Women's Basketball team in the A10 from 2018-2020.

After many hardships, constant struggle, unfair treatment and uncontrollable situations thrown at her, she decided to step away from the program.

Mac & Noah discuss:
- Coaching staff being weird from the start
- The lack of respect given to her
- Her mental health: wanting to cry all day everyday
- Going from validation seeking to believing in herself
- Coaches lying to her and leading her on
- How she got through it / what she took away from it

Mac is currently finishing up her degree in Physical Therapy & runs a newsletter & fitness account called 'GetMactive'. which focuses on connecting people to mindfulness through fitness; which she explains more about in the show.

Link to GetMactive pages: https://linktr.ee/getmactive 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Walkie Talkies is a presentation of I Heart Radio and
the College Athletes Network. Hello, Hey, Yeah, what's up Walkie Talkies?

(00:25):
Welcome back to Walkie Talkies podcast and the College Athletes Network,
featured on I Heart Radio. I'm your host, Noah Bano
and this is episode nine of the podcast. Now, our
first two orders of businesses to one, make sure you
are subscribed to Walkie Talkies podcast. You don't miss any
of this greatness. And to leaving the show, review a
star a comment to help us out. It is always appreciated. Now,

(00:45):
this intro will be very brief because I want to
get right into the interview, but not without the proper
introduction for our guest. Today's guest is Michaelis Simmons, former
walk on for the Duquene University women's basketball team from
two thousand eighteen to two thousand twenty. Now, max journey
as a walk on will be different than any of
the others that we have had on so far. And
to put it simply, her experience was hot, garbage and
a major struggle. Her coaches treated her with no respect

(01:07):
and they played games with her the entire time she
was on the team. It was honestly just weird to
hear that these kind of things even took place um
in Mac's situation, and that older, grown, quote unquote professional
adults would treat a young kid the way they treated her. UM.
So we essentially get through all of the negatives and
the struggles she endured and turned it into the present

(01:27):
moment and how she was able to power through all
of it and translate the same energy and passion that
she was putting into basketball into other endeavors. And let
me just lastly say this, these are the kind of
stories that I had expected to hear more of when
I started this podcast. Not that I was seeking out
only stories like this, but my own experiences and bias
led me to think that all walk on journeys were
more like the one we're about to hear than the

(01:48):
ones that we have been hearing. So Mac shines light
on the not so pretty experience that she had as
a walk on, but more importantly, throughout the episode shows
off her intelligence, her strength, her courage, and her perseverance.
And I'm grateful for her opening up about exactly what
her journey really was. So here goes my full conversation
with former Duquesne women's basketball walk on MICHAELA. Simmons from

(02:10):
the jump. We'll started off with how your walk on
spot at Duquesne came about? Where you preferred, not preferred?
How did your whole opportunity to be a part of
the Duqueanne women's basketball team come about for you? Yeah? So,
I mean what was really happening, um, was that I
had tore my a c l um right before my
senior season of high school. So I was like an
unsigned senior type thing. Um. I kept emailing schools trying

(02:34):
to see if anyone had a spot for me, and
I kept getting a lot of nose. I had some yes.
Is it just really depends on people's like last minute decisions. Um.
But I did have a teacher in high school that
ended up going to school, um with my head coach here,
and she was like, you know, take a look at
the school. You know you want to do physical therapy,
you know, just give it a try. See see what
he says. So I had been contacting him, emailing like

(02:57):
the staff, you know, sending them some videos. I had
everything like that, um, to see if they had some space. UM,
And I actually hadn't. I started doing that back in
I think I had been doing that since maybe September
October of my senior year, and I didn't hear anything
back from them until maybe maybe March, maybe April. One

(03:17):
of those like I had, I was pretty much about
to graduate in like a couple of weeks at that point, UM,
and I ended up getting on the UM on the
phone with him, the head coach, and he was just like, hey, well,
maybe we have space for you to come up. UM,
maybe we don't. He was like, maybe you should just
come and be a manager. And then as the year progresses,

(03:38):
we can see kind of where we're at with that. UM.
So that's kind of what how it happened. UM. So
throughout the summer, I was still practicing and everything like
that because I didn't know if I would be getting
an opportunity or not, but I just want to kind
of stay ready. And then I got a call later
that summer, like a couple of weeks before I'm supposed
to be moving into du Guage because I decided on

(03:59):
du guag and for academic reasons. And he's like, hey, yeah,
go and get your sickle cell test, Go and get
everything you need and then when you get here you
can get your try out because like we have space.
So then I got here, we had to try out.
It was like maybe like a month and a half
long of practicing, UM lifting, doing the extra conditioning. UM.

(04:22):
It was a pretty extensive tryout process, to be completely
honest with you. But yeah, and then I think the
first day of like official practice, he let me know
that I had made the team. I had already done
the the team photo media day, so I had I
had done all of that without even knowing if I
was going to be officially on the team. So you

(04:44):
you had a month long tryout, it was over. It
was over a month the whole preseason. I mean it
is all September October, so September October. And he never
never let you know like you're on the team or
you're like, he just like okay, yeah, we we got
to we talked to media day. We got to media

(05:04):
day and I was like, do I come, Like do
I what am I doing? And they're like, yeah, we
we put a jersey out for you. You know, you're
you're doing media day like you're taking a team picture,
You're taking your own pictures. And I'm like, nobody's even
told me if I'm on the team. I didn't find
that out until like a couple of weeks later. Many
of you couldn't imply that you were on the team

(05:26):
based on like that stuff like hey, you're gonna be
in the team picture, you have a jersey, you're gonna
get your own media day picture. There was no like
implication in your head of like I'm definitely on this team,
because they were what making it seem like off the
court that you maybe still wouldn't be on the team. Yeah. Absolutely,
So I wanted to go ahead and make that assumption,
like you wouldn't have me in the team picture if

(05:46):
I wasn't gonna be on the team. I wanted to
go ahead and assume that, um. But they were also
kind of telling me off the court like, whoa, you're
still technically trying out. We don't know, like we still, um,
you're still going to try out, And I don't know,
I don't know if that was just their way of
just making sure that I was continuing to work harder.
So I'm not really sure where that came from. But yeah,

(06:09):
I didn't find out until late So so they were
weird from the jump, like not hitting you back until
March and then not letting you know. I mean you
had you had willingly decided to go to Duquesne with
no guarantee that you even get on get on the team,
or even get a try out until he hits you
back like close to when you were moving in. So

(06:31):
it was it was weird from the jump, like they
you got weird vibes from the moment you got in
touch with these, like like I should have known, but
it's like, yeah, no, it was. It was definitely, Um,
I've I felt like I kinda was a little bit
desperate to get to Duquine just because it's really where
I wanted to be for school because with the program Moman,

(06:52):
I would have been able to save a year, save
a lot of money, and then it's a great program
to be in. So because I know this is where
I want to be and I know I can play here,
so like let's just make two and to add up,
you know what I'm saying. But so I think in
the middle of kind of like my desperation and just
really trying to get here, I definitely overlooked kind of
like what they were was just early early warning signs

(07:16):
of like kind of what I would be experiencing for
the next couple of years, you know. Yeah, so rocky start,
and then you spent three years in the program, and
then this past season you stepped away from the team. Um,
would you say that it was rocky like your whole
time throughout it? I mean it started rocky, it was started.
I would say it started weird more than it started rocky,

(07:39):
Like that's just weird to not let you know. But
from that point on, like it was, it was a
rocky three years. It wasn't what you expected it to
be at all. Yeah. Absolutely, And it's like I want
to say, some parts were some parts of it were amazing.
I mean like just being with the teams, some of
the things I got to experience, like the girls I

(08:00):
got to meet. Like some parts, seriously, I wouldn't trade
it in for the world. Um. But then there were
other parts. The vast majority of it, um, was really
a struggle. It was like a never ending kind of
loop of just hey, like trying to get an opportunity,
not really understanding why I wasn't getting an opportunity, you know,

(08:22):
trying to have honest conversations with my staff, but I
felt like I was being like lead on and I
feel like there was no honesty there, um, because I'm
the type of person if you had just honestly told
me what it was, I would have been able to
swallow that and you know and deal with that. But um,
I felt like I was kind of being led on

(08:43):
in a way that was just like you were trying
to keep me around. You didn't want to tell me
something that might make me want to leave, so you
just kept stringing me along. And that really wasn't well,
that was definitely more prominent um that third year. Um,
that's really what pushed me to try to leave. So
I just don't understand why they would like lead you

(09:04):
on in that sense and not really formulate any sort
of relationship or honesty or like any sort of camaraderie
with you, like you know, put you on the team,
and then it just be just be weird. Like I'm
gonna keep saying this whole episode, like just weird behavior
from adults, Strange behavior from people that that are definitely

(09:26):
mature adults, like that entire third year, Like first year,
I was a red shirt freshman. I knew I wasn't
playing anyways. I had a lot to learn, I had
a lot to get adjusted to. And it's like practice
was was hard because there, um there was also another
coach would who would pull me out of durrows and
pull me out of practice. So I was barely even

(09:47):
practicing my freshman year, which is like you would think,
I'm a red shirt freshman, I can't playing games anyways.
You would think that's an opportunity for me to develop
some more in practice and everything that that that wasn't
the king Ace. I was certified cheerleading, Like, yeah, how
many people were on the roster that year? I want
to say maybe fourteen? Okay. The reason I ask is

(10:10):
because it's like, if you have more than fifteen people,
you only get thirteen scholarships in those last two spots
normally are for walk on. So it's like you have
three teams of five when you have fifteen girls on
your team. But if you don't even have the full
amount of scholarships, or you do when you're the fourteenth
person on the team, like there's enough space for you
to be getting some reps. And I'm I'm only saying
this because like part of me understands why like a

(10:32):
red shirt freshman walk on would not get any burn
in practice because like the coach is just like I
don't care about you, you know, not that I don't
care about you, but like I gotta focus on these people.
It is what it is. You'll have your time, and
that wasn't the case for you at all. But I
just think it's weird that like not enough, not overwhelming
number of people where you couldn't get reps, like you
could have easily been sub for a team at the
very least, absolutely absolutely, And it's like I had tried

(10:55):
to have conversations with them throughout the next couple of
years years UM and really once I got to my
second year, I was able to get way more active
in practice, and I was I was pretty much you know,
like practice squad, you know, scout team, which I was
fine with because I was really able to like getting
the flow of things and really show what I can do.

(11:17):
But in a way it kind of played against me
because once I figured like once I could show them
what I could really do UM and where I was at,
that I would actually get an opportunity to start practicing
in the context of like being in the rotation and
like actually looking at me and seeing if I would
fit in what you want like the context of the game,
you know, But I actually ended up just kind of

(11:38):
getting like a little bit discouraged because I'm like, Okay,
I'm doing great. Now, I'm doing I'm doing what I
need to be doing, but I'm also not seeing like
the opportunity to get involved in a way that could
have me in like rotation. So my biggest struggle throughout
the past few years was like I wasn't even given
the opportunity to to really practice on on in like

(12:03):
the rotation that you know you would look at to
then make decisions about who would play in the game, right,
you know, So I knew I wasn't getting in the
game for sure, because I'm like, I'm not even getting
in the rotations and practice. But you know, that's really
what I wanted, was just the opportunity. And you know,
when I have that opportunity, I'll do with it what

(12:24):
I what I can and let the ships fall where
they may. But I I just wasn't given that. I
hate it, um not seriously, though, So let's let's do
like a little rundown of you know, how you'd explain um,
like your day to day as a walk on for
the Douque women's basketball team like a day to day
basis the way you felt walking into that gym every

(12:45):
day knowing there was no opportunity, knowing you could, you know,
work as hard as you want to work, but you
were going to still have all these adult coaches not
talk to you, not respect you, not have any sort
of you know, inclination to have a relationship with you,
like every single day. What what what was it like
walking through there? Man? I think, Um, I would start out,

(13:07):
I was the first person in the gym for all
of our practices for all three years. So I showed
up to every single practice an hour early, just because
that's how I like to do things. Like it helped
me mentally prepare whatever, you know, I just like I
like doing it. Um. And when I would be there, uh,
some of the coaches would come in and they would
see me like putting shots up and you know, just
trying to get some reps in, and they would just

(13:28):
sit down and like just talk to each other or
like watch and like they wouldn't say anything. And then
like thirty minutes after me, my other teammate would come
in and you know, she'll grab a ball and start
shooting and then you know they're like rebounding for and
talking to her, and I'm like, okay, so this is
how it's starting. But then you know, we get to
practice and I just kind of feel like, Okay, I

(13:50):
know I'm gonna work hard because I'm not gonna come
here and waste my time, you know, and I'm I
respect my teammates so much. I'm like, yeah, the situation
isn't what I wanted to be, but we're all doing this,
so you know, I'm gonna give it a hundred percent.
But it was just so uh, it was challenging, like
just knowing that, yeah, I'm gonna dive on the floor,
I'm gonna hit shots, I'm gonna do great things and

(14:13):
still never see the court. And like it would have
been different if, like I had had that open and
honest communication from them and had that like true expectation
going forward. But they were telling me in the huddle
every couple of weeks, hey, like you're gonna you're gonna
play in this game, be ready, like and this is
in front of like a team huddle like just often.

(14:37):
So I'm just like it's stuff like that I I
couldn't deal with like telling you what what were they
telling you in a team huddle. In the team huddle,
they'd be Mac, you did a great job today. You
need to be ready for tomorrow's game. We're gonna have
you come in blah blah blah. And this would be
in the middle um. All throughout last season, this was
happening throughout the entire season. It happened at least once

(15:00):
a week, head coach, head coach again, weird, strange because
that's weird that I got to find another synonym for weird,
because like it's just getting really weird, like because it's
the only way to explain it. It's just weird behavior.
It's upsetting, it's it's what the hell, why are you
playing with me? Like you're literally toying with my my emotions,

(15:20):
my goals, my aspirations, my work, like you're every little
thing that you do. He's fucking with you. Yeah, no,
I mean I'm talking the dude will come to me.
It wasn't even just in huddles before games. Sometimes it
would be when we're warming up for the game. I'm
warm enough for the game, and my man's would come

(15:41):
and pull me to the side and be like Max
stay ready for today, Like I'm putting you in the bull,
but what do you call that? What do you call that?
And then of course now I'm like like I'm trying
not to keep my hopes up, you know, and like
stay kind of realistic because I don't want to get crushed,
you know what I'm saying. I don't want to get

(16:02):
you know, I don't want to get burned like that.
But I would have to also try to be expecting
it so that I can be ready and get in
and not fold, you know. So yeah, then I wouldn't obviously.
So now I'm just set. So it's just yeah, how um,
Like if he's saying those kind of things to you
in front of the team, like, and this is a

(16:24):
question in regards to I guess the whole staff, Like
what is your relationship with them outside of the huddle,
you know, on the court, in practice or like in
the office, on the road trips, team meals, Like what
is the vibe with you and the coaches? They don't
come and rebound for you while they see you there
an hour early putting in work. Not sure if they
say anything to you in those moments or like any

(16:46):
instructive coaching tips, like a coach, would you know, normally
do like, what is your vibe with them outside of
those ridiculously weird, obnoxious bullshit comments that you were getting
that we're not true, so long, long winded question, but yeah,
what is that? What's that? Honestly is love hate? And honestly,
I feel like nine times i'd attend it's it's not

(17:07):
not love, but it's just like we've had moments um
where it's like I don't necessarily dislike these people at
their core, Like I feel like the way they go
about things in the basketball context and like the team context,
leadership context, I I can't get behind. I don't for
the life of me, I can't understand why you would

(17:28):
expect a certain culture but then treat your your players
that way. But then when it comes to them is
people you know, like, especially for my head coach, it's
it's definitely love hate because I'm like, whoa, you know,
he was still the only coach to really take a
chance on me and give me a spot, you know,
and give me a place for me to call it
a home and a team you know, let me travel

(17:50):
even though I he knew. I guess apparently knew, he
knew I wasn't playing, still brought me on the trips,
you know, So it's it's weird. I wouldn't say I
have a relay ship with them because I was pretty
much just for three years really just trying to get
inside their head and understand what was going on, and
all it was was just a lot of lies. So

(18:11):
in general, I don't really have like a trust for them.
There's no trust in our relationship. Um, I feel like
in general when when I do think about them, just
kind of like like I'm very hesitant just because I
felt like they were being very manipulative. But I you know,
i'd be completely dishonest if I were to just stay
here and act like they didn't have any any good

(18:34):
qualities as well. Yeah, I mean, it's one thing to
be appreciative of, like him giving you a spot and
and all that, but it's like there's contingencies when you
get a spot on a team, regardless of you're giving
a scholarship or you're paying your way, like to treat
a human being with respect and you know, literally like
that's the main thing. It's just like being respectful and
like it's not a hard thing to do. If you're

(18:55):
doing it, if you're respecting thirteen other women and the staff,
why can't you just add one more person to the list.
I mean, so, I don't know, it's really bizarre and
it's unfortunate for you. Um So to me, it feels
like what it was personal or it was like you
should be lucky and just happy to be here and

(19:16):
not ask for ship else like kind of thing. And
if that's the case, like I mean, yeah, you can
look at it as like, Okay, yeah, I am really
grateful and happy to be here. However, like if I'm here,
there's gotta be some purpose for me to be here.
Like I'm a competitor, I'm a basketball player, I have goals,
I have a life. I am a human being, like
I want to do a bunch of ships. Like and

(19:38):
if you're putting a cap on my head and telling
me like this is as far as I can go
and as high as I can jump without even letting
me stand up off the couch, what the hell are
we doing here? So, what I mean is like I
don't know if they had a vandettic against you, I
don't know if it was personal. I don't know. I
don't know, like, do you think that that blatant treatment

(19:58):
was coming off like that? I think for some of
the coaching staff it was. And and here's why, because
I feel like, um, my head coach was also a
walk on, and every time I had like tried to
have a conversation about how things were going, you know,
I tried to be you know, reason with them, Like listen,

(20:18):
this isn't making sense, you know why I'm not receiving
an opportunity, you know, Like, and every single conversation that
I've ever had with him, he's kind of circled it
back to like, well, you know, I was a walk
on for this school, you know, and like West Virginia
or something. And I'm like this that this isn't you.

(20:39):
You're like forty, I don't even know, you know what
I'm saying, Like times have times have changed. I'm my
own player, you know, I'm not you, you know, And
and I'm doing great. I can't speak for how you
were doing when you were trying to walk on or whatever,
but the way I'm playing right now, I definitely deserve
just a shot to practice, you know what I'm saying.

(21:01):
So I think to an extent, I think it was.
I don't want to use the word personal because I'm
not sure if he meant it with any type of
like ill intent, but I definitely believe that he was
projecting his own experiences on onto onto my own. Yeah
that's crazy. And I remember the first time I ever
met him, I had no idea who he was. He

(21:22):
kind of just comes up to me and he's like, hey,
you're the new walk on on the team, and I
was like, yeah, yeah, my name is nol Bono, like
and he was just like he was like, oh, that's great,
Like don't ever give up on yourself, Like, don't ever
stop believing yourself. I was a walk on too, like
you can do anything to put your mind to, like,
you know, something along the lines of that cliche ship.
And in my mind, I'm like, I don't even know
who that guy is. Had no idea he was the

(21:43):
women's coach, and I was like that was great, like
really motivating, inspiring, like like great words of encouragement and
you know, I've had conversations with you and I'm like, oh, wait,
like he's you know, he don't mean any of that ship. Yeah,
everything is just so weird. Okay, So let's let's keep
on the negatives before we get into the positives. I
guess since that's what we're on, let's let's go with

(22:05):
what's the worst thing that happened to you during your
time there. If it's more than one, feel free to
rattle it off. But worst thing, hardest thing, what do
you got? Oh? Man, there's one one incident in particular,
and when I was a freshman, and as you recall,
I had not really been practicing that whole year. It

(22:26):
was really just strictly sidelines. You know, maybe the drills
in the beginning of practice for like the first fifteen
minutes UM, just like shooting drills, ball handling drills, just
stuff like that. But we also there would be like
a part of practice where we can just run through
our sets UM. And I was like, man, like I
really I would love to get involved with that because
I had come in the fall, so I wasn't there

(22:48):
for the summer when they put them in UM. So
I was like, you know, like I would, I would
love to get in and like kind of like practice
these UM, run through the sets, show show them, I
know the sets. So I would, Oh, and a few
of my teammates would help stay after practice with me
and like we would run through the plays and everything,
and then when we would like run through them in practice,

(23:10):
I would like sub in so that I can, you know,
start start running through the plays and everything with the team.
And one of my coaches would just pull me, pull
me right back out, and he'd like, well, you know
the plays. And I'm thinking to myself, like I just
stayed after like an extra hour with my teammates to
run through the plays, like I I know the plays,
but you know, um, I was like, I guess I
have to figure out a way to show him that

(23:32):
I I know the place. So one day after film,
it was like a few days after that, Um, I
went up to him after film and I'm like, hey, coach, like, uh,
is it okay if like we spend like twenty minutes
one of these days like just going over our plays
just so that we're both on the same page about
the place, Because like, I want you to be confident

(23:54):
that I know the plays. This man's fully screams that
he's cussing me out. Is like it's December and you're
you're coming to me talking about plays. Blah blah blah,
just full on custing me out. He's screaming and it's
only me and him in the film room. And then
one of my g as, the g A, like heard
all of it. And then after he was done yelling,

(24:16):
I just went to the locker room. I was just
like trying to get myself together because mine even like
a baby. I'm like a freshman, you know. So I'm
just like, I don't even know what's happening. Like I
handled that the best I could, and it just blew
up in my face. I don't even know what to
make of that, Like what. So my g A comes
down to the locker room and she's like, hey, like,
let's go through the plays. Um on paper. You write

(24:39):
them out. We'll take our time write them out, show
them to him um and and that way you can
show them that you know the plays and you can
start getting more involved in practice. I said that. Next
day we spend at least two hours going through all
of our play sets, writing them all out. They're looking beautiful.
Next day, before the team leaves for a trip, I
go up to him and I'm like, hey, like, I

(25:00):
drew out all of our plays okay, and I would
really appreciate it. If maybe on the bus, you just
looked them over and let me know if if they're
like correct, I just want you to to see them.
Man's turns, He's like okay, cool, takes the papers later
down the hall, just throws them away. And then I
find out a couple of months later that this whole time,

(25:23):
this whole thing about me knowing the plays everything, It
turns out that he had a video put together of
all the play sets, and he had print outs printed
out copies of the plays that I he just never
let me know about. I never saw him, he never
let me touch them. I didn't know they existed. But

(25:43):
yet he claimed that the only reason that I wasn't
involved in practice because I didn't know the plays. Yet
he had those resources the entire time. He even gave
them to other people on the team. That was the worst. Yeah,
that sounds like it would be the worst. I'm I
can only think of two words right now when it's

(26:03):
fuck him. I mean, I'm sorry. That is ridiculous. Um, Like,
there's only so much rationalizing I can do for head
coaches when they like treat, you know, their players who
are on the bottom of the roster a certain way.
But when it comes to like a player trying to
you know, watch film and get better or learn the

(26:24):
plays and you know, be knowledgeable about the coaches system,
and they're putting a literal barrier up to even allow
you to do that. Like I've never even heard you're
sitting here saying that you were you Drew drew the
plays up and handed him a playbook like of his place,
And I'm like, what the hell, it's crazy, It's crazy.

(26:46):
I can't believe that that was even something you had
to do, like I I and then it it's still
backfired on you. And I couldn't relate more to being
nineteen and asking like such a simple question, and then
like you're getting cursed out and screamed at, and you're
nineteen and you're like petrified and uncomfortable, and then you
want to like cry and you're upset and you're like,

(27:07):
what did I do wrong? Dude? I was just asking
you a fucking question. Man. I I hate that you
had to experience that side of it. Um. Unfortunately some
of us do a lot of the walk ons that
I have talked to, oddly enough, which is not what
I expected. You know, I haven't. And there's been a
couple with like some some like iffy stories were on,
Like oh, like yeah, that's because you're a walk on.

(27:28):
That makes sense. Like and then you come with this
and like you know, this is ten out of ten
worth ship Like yeah, yeah, I'm not saying it to
make you feel bad either. I hope it. I hope
you're not taking it that way, because like you know,
I know you're not, but it's just like it sucks.
It sucks that you had to experience that and like
push yourself through that. I mean, so okay, everybody hang tight.
Directly after this break, Mac tells us about her mental

(27:50):
state and what all of these things did to her
mental health. Stay with us, We'll be right back. This
is Walkie Talks podcast on the College Athletes Network, featured
on I Heart Radio. Now, let's ring back in former
Duquesne University women's basketball walk on Michaylas Simmons. So, these
things happened to you, and like I said, we're young,
we're petrified, we're scared. Like what did that do to
your mental like your mental health? What what helped you

(28:12):
get through that? Like where were you at? That's why
I said in the beginning, what was your day to
day like going in there, but ultimately, what did you
do to your mental Like where the hell was your
head at it on a day to day basis? Like
how are you feeling? I mean, I'll be like if
I can level with you, Like that was the worst
that my mental state's been in my life. And I
think it was because of several different things. I mean

(28:33):
I was already a walk on, like you already know
about like that stigma and like that that stereotype um
of already being treated kind of like you're less then
or like being seen like you're not as important, that
you like don't have as much value like, but the
fact that it was kind of taken to the extreme
in this program really just didn't help either. And I

(28:54):
had already kind of like basketball was my identity. It
was a pretty sharp contrast from what I and experiencing
in high school. You know, like I just felt pretty worthless,
like every single day, and then I would try to
compensate for it by like being in the gym until
like one or two am, barely getting any sleep. Then
my grade started dropping, you know, as things just really

(29:17):
started to snowball, and it it was just I really
can't describe what that was like other than it just
being extremely hard every single day, Like I definitely want
to cry going to practice. I want to cry coming
back from practice. I don't want to cry in practice.
You know, Like it was, it was like it was

(29:37):
a lot to deal with every single day because I
felt like, you know, like there's just a certain type
of like disparity you feel when it's you know, there's
nothing you can do about it. You're doing all you
can't already, and that's just the situation. So getting out
of that, though, I think probably the first step to
that was when I connected more with my teammates. So

(29:59):
as the year went on that first year, getting connected
um and building some like real good relationships with my teammates,
that was kind of like the first step, just because
it allowed me to see more from the situation. Like
I could focus less on like how unhappy I was,
and I could just kind of gravitate towards what I

(30:20):
was a little grateful for, you know what I'm saying, Like, Yeah,
this situation is like hot ass right now, It's like
not okay, but it's like but there's also some good parts.
Like then the next year, I had roomed with the
other walk on who's like my best friend now, and
it's like if we had not been rooming together, I
wouldn't have even lasted a couple more years. Like that

(30:41):
was just just to have someone who I saw every day.
That's just like at the end of the day, we
could just recap and like we could talk about these
things and it's like she gets it, you know what
I'm saying. Like, So it's really relationships that just really
carried me through that. I felt like I was insane,
Like yeah, for for almost all of it, because I'm

(31:04):
just like, man, like am I am? I just really
really bad? Or is it like it's like people had
to I was really relying on other people's like you know,
like I guess validating my experience. Um, because every time
I would talk to the staff about it, you know,
it was like they made me feel like I was

(31:25):
crazier that it wasn't even happening, you know. So then
I felt in like clinically insane. It was. It was
it was a lot. It was a lot mentally, I definitely, Um,
I learned a lot about myself during that time, But
I learned from hitting like a rock bottom. Yeah, and
it sucks that you had to even get to that

(31:45):
point at such a young age too, Like they're putting
you through ship like that was the other walk on
getting similar treatment while that was all going on, I
think it I think it was similar. Yeah, I would
say it's similar, especially into terms of like not really
getting a shot at at you know, getting into rotation
and stuff. We were we were pretty much in the

(32:06):
same boat. I just you know, especially like being in
two thousand twenty two and like, you know how important
mental health has become, like to the public, which is
a good thing because, like you know, we went generation
after generation of just people literally neglecting their depression, their anxiety,
their paranoia, like just totally just being like yeah, well,

(32:29):
I mean, nobody's gonna feel bad for me. And now
we're at this point where, like, you know, someone going
through what you went through that made you feel the
way you feel like it was a detriment to you,
not only mentally, but because mentally, like it fucked up
probably the rest of your everyday life. Like you just said,
you want to go to basketball a game you love

(32:51):
and cry on the court. That's wrong. That's not your fault,
but that's wrong, Like like that's a crazy, crazy calm
bow for me, because like if you look at it,
like it's literally just basketball. It's a game. It's a
children's game. You start playing it as a child, and
all of a sudden, yes, the stakes get higher, it
gets more serious, money gets involved, like politics become a thing.

(33:14):
The X and i's get more in depth, but it's
still a fucking It's still that same child's game. Still,
it's still that same game that we're like, sure, we
should obsess over and we should want to be masters
at and and you know, win championships all that. But
at the same time, like you know, if you've got
people in your program that are feeling the way you
were feeling like and you still don't care, I don't know.

(33:36):
I just I can't wrap my head around that at all.
It's kind of stumping me a little bit, um, because
I've experienced like very similar things like to to the
same degree that you have different ways, but like very
very similar my first two years that I had no
idea or even a thing, And that's why I can
fully relate to you, um on a particular scale of

(33:57):
like I wrote that exact wave that you wrote, like
that wave eat the ship out of us, like you know, properly.
Oh like yeah, like it was just you know, it's
just sometimes you don't even like have the worst to
really described people how hard it is mentally just because
first start of how how much of your day is

(34:19):
consumed by it, like every of your day and your
years it's half your year almost, you know, maybe three quarters.
Have you spend your summer up there too? Like yeah,
and it's it's like not optional. There is no running
away from it. I I can't storm out of practice
or miss I can't miss practice. I won't be on
a roster in two weeks like nah, that it won't

(34:43):
even fly. It's just like having to like hold yourself
to such a high standard, having to like exceed expectations
just to be on maybe like maybe the same uh
you know level of respect is everyone else. You know,
it's that and it's self is exhausting. Man, Okay, one
more break, but you've made it this far, So stay

(35:03):
with us to hear the bright side of all of
this and what's come out of all of it for Mac,
really awesome stuff from her. So stay put. We'll be
right back, and we're back. This is what You Talk
podcast Here for the home stretch, let's bring back in
our guest michaelis Simmons. Okay, so let's flip it to
you know, I know it was hard and it was
crazy and it was sad, but let's flip it to

(35:24):
the bright side of what do like these experiences and
that hitting rock bottom at such a young age to like,
you're we're all in that phase of like turning into
young adults, exiting childhood, entering early adulthood. Like right at
that transitional point for you, what did it do for
you to be where you're currently at. Yeah, I mean,

(35:45):
I think the most important thing it did for me, Um,
was it it really taught me how to believe in myself.
Like through all of this. Up until this point, I
had really just been relying on other people's kind of
perspectives at pay means of me, you know, like, yeah,
you're a great basketball player, Yeah you're whatever, you know,
and like because I felt validated that that was what

(36:09):
was carrying me through a lot of um situations because
I hadn't even really developed like that belief in myself
for myself yet. Um, And then I got here and
there was no more validation. There was no more crowd,
there was no more UH. I didn't have uh coach
that was, you know, investing into me, even talking to
me or coaching me, you know, so that that was

(36:32):
kind of stripped away from me. I felt like kind
of like the rug was pulled out from underneath me.
But you know, through a long process, I really had
to learn to just believe in myself, like just for
me alone, Like I don't. It's to the point like
right now, I really couldn't give a damn if you
didn't believe in what I was doing. I don't care.
I really don't. Like if I believe it, it's really wraps,

(36:55):
it's really raps. And like you already know, we got
the work ethic. We're literally bred for that. We would
even have the opportunity to walk on if our work
ethic was some cut you know. So it's like that
combined with the fact now that like I don't need
you to believe in me, I don't need you to
see what I see for me to go ahead and
pursue what I want to do. That's the most important

(37:16):
thing that it taught me, because now I feel like
knowing the work ethic, I have knowing the passion I have,
Like all I really have to do is decide where
I want to direct that energy. After that, it's really
up right right, that's it because once you can put
the same amount of time and energy that you just
put into basketball and you go put it into all
the other things that you're trying to accomplish, that you

(37:38):
know you will be you know, given back what you deserve.
It's much more rewarding that. The thing I want to
say though, is like, you know, we can put in
a lot of work and do a lot of things,
and you can be in any field you want to
be in, and it doesn't always like yes, you put
the work in, and you probably think mentally like I

(37:58):
do deserve this because I gave of it all that.
But that's when like the whole cliche life is not
fair thing comes into play, because there's a million people
in the world, billions that do enough good and do
enough of the right stuff and deserve a certain outcome
and still don't get it. And I think I fall
victim to that, like you know, and you do as well.
Like that, There's there's plenty of people and I'm saying

(38:20):
that for us in the basketball world, Like you put
all that working and you would think that, like you
have more than your ten thousand hours in that damn
jym like, but you still never got your tuition paid for,
You never got a scholarship, you never got minutes, you
probably didn't score points. Like our laundry list, mine and
yours very parallel situations. It goes on and on and on,
and so it's not to say, like you know, you

(38:41):
didn't deserve it or you don't deserve it. However, like
I always look at these as like a signal from
whatever the universe telling me, like dude, like if you
just use that same time, energy resources and like intensity
at something else, maybe you will get back what you
thought you deserved in the basketball world in an other degree.
Like and so I always just try to hold on

(39:03):
tight to that because like I'm a wholeheartedly believe that,
Like you know, you can put enough good out in
the world and you will get good back, but it
just it might not be in the exact area you
thought it would be. Like use my brother as an example,
Like he loved basketball just as much as I did,
but his career got cut short right after high school.
Like he got his love got stripped immediately after his

(39:25):
senior year, where he chalked it up and didn't even
try to play at a Division three school or anything.
And he had to figure out a way to transform
that energy, time intensity throughout his adolescence, you know, zero
to eighteen playing basketball into something into his early adult life.
And now it's comedy, it's music, it's you know, content creation,

(39:46):
like he's doing all and and it's just better, Like
he's gonna put just as much into that and get
way more out of it. Why it works that way,
But you know, for some people it just does and
it's nothing to be ashamed of. I think it's just
a good Like that's the one positive. Well, there's a
couple of positives, but that's like a big positive of
this whole situation is like you go through ship, there's

(40:07):
no way to get out of it. You're seeking validation
from all these other people because you don't know what
else to do. You're also young, you're immature, you're inexperienced,
you haven't seen the world. And controllables. You were saying,
like a lot of the stuff that happened to you
was so out of your control. You couldn't do anything
about it, like you were just like would literally go
in there every day and it would be like, well,
I can't do anything, Like I'm not allowed to get

(40:28):
on the court, I'm not allowed to learn the plays.
I'm not allowed to have someone rebound me or work
me out or coach me. Like. I think that to
to sum it up is that when you experience all
those different things in different magnitudes, like but kind of
all at once, I think it does give you. And
I don't want to, you know, put a sliding scale

(40:48):
on people having a better perspective or a worse perspective,
but I do think it gives you a broader perspective
on like how to see the world, how to view people,
and then ultimately how you go on about your life
to treat people. And I would you agree with that absolutely?
And it's like, I think you hit it right on
the nail, because, um, before I kind of thought that

(41:11):
my passions, like I have to my outcome has to
kind of match what my passions are at the moment.
Like if my passion is to be an outstanding basketball
player and do this and that, then like the outcome
of the work that I'm putting in, I should be
seeing like way more playing time or like opportunities and
practice and stuff. But like it's become abundantly clear, like

(41:34):
abundantly clear to me now that sometimes your passions are
just used to like direct you to where you're actually
supposed to be at, like you're not in the wrong place.
I don't regret being on the team. I don't regret
the last three years at all. And it's because I
know that without all the things that I've learned, like
I had to go through that in order to be

(41:54):
where I'm at now. It was it was necessary, you know.
And it's like I feel like sometimes I feel like
people want to get discouraged because they're like, man, like
that was wasted time. Like I don't believe anything's wasted,
Like it was really just to lead me towards where
I can start putting this this effort now and like
this passion now, um, and I would not have stumbled

(42:17):
upon any of it if I hadn't first gone through
this experience, you know. I think that's the best thing
is like not eating ship. Eating ship is not the
best thing. The best thing that comes out of eating
all that ship is just like I want to say
that the gratitude and like the appreciation you have for
the time you spent eating ship, because in the moment,

(42:38):
it was not fun, it was not easy, it was
not enjoyable, it was not good for our mental health whatever,
like none of it. But because you powered through, you
came out on the other side standing on your two
feet and middle fingers up like, you know, you came out.
You you didn't die, You didn't you know, have any
catastrophic things happened to you. Um, And it it it

(43:01):
just it makes it because it's over. So now it's like, Okay,
I can look back on that, I remember how I felt,
and I know that I'll never you know, willingly put
myself in a position that could be any resemblance of that. Um.
But I think it's a big thing too, you know,
always look back and like have that appreciation because had
you not gone through that, there's a million things that

(43:24):
you currently feel, currently think, and currently do that probably
would be completely different had you not been exposed to
some of these things. And that's a weird, like I
don't know, it's a weird psychological thing to get behind on, Like, yeah,
you gotta eat ship and you gotta be treated like
ship to view the world in a good way. Like, yeah,
not necessarily, but it does really help you kind of

(43:46):
come out on the other side when you have those
really poor experiences. And so that's like a big, big
positive that obviously you've taken from it. I've taken from it.
Plenty of people that aren't even walk ons that have
had shitty experiences because they have a shitty ball that
bullies them and tries to embarrass them at every moment
they can they figure it out, how do I how
do I overcome this? Um? So let's on that note. Um,

(44:11):
Like where you're at now, we're talking about energy, passion,
doing things you love to do, Like is basketball maybe done?
Is there another avenue you're trying to take? I know
you have your really cool uh Instagram account get active,
which I want you to talk all about so that
the listeners can hear about it. But what where is
your energy and your passion being given to right now? Well,

(44:32):
right now I'm pretty much directing all my energy uh
in to get active and like growing that start off
with what it tell everybody what it is. That would
be a great way to start out. So like getting
active is pretty much it's a platform on Instagram. Um,
A little bit of it is on Twitter. I'm so
trying to get Twitter up and running, but most of
it is on Instagram. UM. And like it's designed to

(44:54):
connect like college students to mindfulness, So using my fulness
and fitness and blending it together in a way that
like allows you to move through life more empowered. Um,
and more in tune with yourself because I feel like
what happens and I you know, obviously being in D
one athlete, you would have thought I had recognized this sooner.

(45:15):
Never did. I didn't realize it until after I put
up all down, uh coincidentally, but um, when you work out,
it's like you can't ever run from how your body
is feeling. Like your body is gonna talk to you
and let you know what your body is feeling in
that moment when you're working out. You can't ignore it.
You can, you can try if you want to, but
it's always gonna let you know how it's feeling. And

(45:37):
it's like this awareness, Like once you become aware of that,
then you can decide, hey, like do I want to
keep going? Do I want to push through this? Do
I need to rest? Do I need to stop completely
is it causing me pain? And like that same concept
it applies to life as well, Like the more aware
you are of your situations and how you're feeling and

(45:58):
like how you're really responding to certain things, that's when
you can really take your awareness and once you're conscious
of those things, make the best decisions possible for yourself.
But if I, if I don't even know how I'm
feeling about certain things are like how I'm really like
kind of wired to think about things in my own way,

(46:18):
on my own habits and perspectives, then I can't expect
myself to make decisions that make sense for me because
it's like I don't know myself. So I feel like
fitness is the easiest way for people to get their
foot in the door of kind of like mindfulness and
awareness and like that well being space and just really
all it is is just getting to know yourself and

(46:39):
accepting the fact that any questions you have, the answers
are in yourself. You just have to sit with them
for a little bit and sort through yourself for a
little while, Like the answers are all there in you.
So that's kind of like what you know, get mactive,
is we have like a newsletter, you know, which is
really just me sending like a thought spill every week

(47:02):
with a workout. Um. We're working with some companies right
now to try to like pitch some ideas to get
things bundled up for college students, UM, so that we
can you know, kind of grow together in that space.
But that's where most of my efforts are with basketball.
I still, you know, hoop on the side for leisure,
you know, when my knees, when my knees can handle it.

(47:26):
At this point, I don't believe, um, there's anything left
for me in terms of college hoops. I'm staying here
for for the rest of my college career, so I
don't really see myself returning to the team. So I
think that's it for college hoops. UM, maybe just for
hoops in general. But yeah, that's that's pretty much where

(47:46):
we're at. I'm a big, big Headspace um user. I
have been since I became a walk on. It was
like the main thing that got me through it. So, uh,
shout out Headspace. You get a free, fucking free endorsement.
Nobody's paying me to say that. Um, it doesn't matter. Um,
but no, I I think it's super cool because that

(48:07):
direction that you're kind of trying to take that in
super similar to like the same idea of what I'm
doing with the podcast. Obviously different concepts, but like same
idea in the growing phases of how can you partner
with people, how can you make this bigger? How can
you get it into the masses? Because I think that's
a really cool idea. And I mean, obviously, at this
stage in the game, like everything in the media world

(48:29):
is super saturated, there's so many people just doing very
similar things. Like there's nine podcasts in the world, there's
you know, a million Instagram fitness instructors or whatever you
want to call them. Like, so it's always about like
how can we separate ourselves um and find and grab
that little niche following. But I'll be happy to you know,

(48:52):
put get active in the bio um and all over
the twitters when when we post this, because I think
it's great and I I watch every video, I'm like,
I mean I work out all the time, like, and
I saw you start doing like the the mindfulness thing,
and I didn't really put the pieces together that that
was the concept and the goal. But I was like
the couple of videos that I saw doing it. I

(49:13):
was like, Oh, that's really cool. Like, I hope there's
more of those on the way. So I hope, you know,
a bunch of more people see it, find it, and
you continue to grow it. You're gonna have to teach
me how to make a newsletter too, because I got
no idea how to do that, and I got you.
It was a steep learning curve for me, but I
got we need to we need to build the getting
active community and the walkie talkies community because a lot

(49:35):
of good things coming out of both of them. Um, well,
I want to wrap it up there. I want to
say that I'm very grateful for you coming on the show.
I'm really sorry that you had to experience a lot
of that traumatic ship. But I mean you're a beautiful
person inside and out and you have a ton of
cool ship going on. And it was really cool to
like match up our two journeys very similar. Unfortunately they

(49:59):
had to be on the dark side, but I think
that we're both, you know, coming out on the strong side.
So really cool getting to talk to you. I know
that we have had some history talking about this blah
blah blah, and so it's a lot smoother this time. Um,
I was also a rookie. For everybody wondering the last
time Mac and I recorded a pod, that's why we're

(50:19):
kind of redoing this. But um yeah, I really appreciate
you coming on the show and uh, you know, best
of luck to you and keep it tough. Yeah for sure,
thank you for having me a great talk. Yeah, hell yeah,
this is fire. This was way better than the first one. Absolutely, dude.
The first one I was asking you ship like, yeah,
what do you do to get juiced up on the bench,

(50:40):
like fucking care like you fu you were fake, That
juice was fake. I'm so glad you shine light on
like the mental piece. That's so necessary. Okay, that's a rap.
What a great conversation. Really enjoyed it. Shout out to
Mac for coming on and opening up about her journey.
It's it's not easy being honest like that, but there

(51:02):
really is no sense of hiding from the pain. And
you know, Max's journey was what it was, and pretty
much every reason as to why it was that way
was out of her control. But you know, she stood
tall and it's the stories like hers and the strength
and perseverance like hers that make this show great. You know,
I also do want to just say shame on that
coaching staff for treating her like that, and shame on
any other staffs out there who have treated players like

(51:24):
that as well or think it's okay to treat their
players like that. Karma always comes back around in some
capacity because you simply cannot get away with treating people
like that. So I'll leave that at that. But anyway,
for Mac to see her making these big strides now
as an entrepreneur and creative content maker, trying to help
future college athletes as well as working on finishing her
degree in physical therapy, is exactly what comes out of

(51:46):
being a walk on, and it's to me what makes
this show so special when you actually listen to the
episodes in their entirety. Anyway, that work ethic never leaves
us walk on. You know, we just learned how to
apply that same energy and passion that we grew up
with four basketball or whatever our sport is and put
it into other things. So be sure to check out
her get back to page on Instagram for some helpful

(52:08):
tips and guidance on mindfulness and fitness. I will leave
the page tag in the episode description below and be
sure to leave the show a review. If you enjoyed
this episode and share it, pass it along with others
who you also think may enjoy this episode. And please
make sure you are subscribed to Walkie Talkies Podcast on
the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your podcasts, and stay tuned for next week's

(52:29):
episode to hear a little bit more about your host, me,
myself and I am my own walk on journey. Thank
you all for listening and see you on next week.
And remember, Walkie Talkies Podcast has been a presentation of

(52:51):
I Heart Radio and the College Athletes Network