Isha Sesay Talks Motherhood, Rebranding Areya Media, Diddy, Protecting Black Women + More
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
What's up.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
It's way up with angela ye, and I'm here getting
advice from iushous to say thank you so much. He also, well,
she's changing my life already for the better. But I'm
just so honored to have you here today. I told
you I really admire the work that you've been doing
ever since I first seen you.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Want CNN thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
And you know you have an you have a book
out called Beneath the Tearmentry that came out some years ago.
But you're a person that's been highlighting stories that other
people don't touch.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Yeah, I mean I think the way I look at it,
I think journey speaking. When it comes to stories about
black women and girls, journey speaking, they don't get as
much attention, if they get attention at all. So as
a black woman, and also specifically as a black woman
from Africa, I feel that, having been blessed to have
some form of platform and exposure, I need to use
(00:50):
my voice.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
And you are from Sierra Leone and then you moved
to the UK for it was it for.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
School, So it's some sort of a little bit the
other way around. I was born in the My parents
are from Serralian both of them. I was born in
the UK when they were doing second degrees. You know
that old post colonialism story where these countries had you know,
European or French overlords, if you will, and then those
people that those countries could go broad and study. So
(01:17):
my parents went to the UK. They had us there, myself,
my brother and sister, and when I was seven, they
moved us back to Serrali and so I lived there
from seven to sixteen, then went back.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Why did they move back?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
You know, it's really interesting because and I think about
this a lot, because it has meant so much to
me and who I am to date. They moved us
back because they very much wanted us to grow up
in Africa, to feel rooted, to feel connected, to never
feel feel like outsiders, and to also, and now when
I look at it, to grow up in a place
(01:49):
that was majority black, where you know, my notion of
what is beautiful, my notion of what is valuable, my
notion of my own safety are paramount, right, which in
other places like the US and the UK is not
the case. Right, We are battling notions. Many black girls
are dealing with that issue. Am I pretty enough? My
hair isn't the norm. How do I show up? How
(02:11):
am I see reflected back to me myself on screen
on social So anyway, my parents gave me what I
think is the biggest gift.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Were they did they see something You're the middle Are
you the middle town?
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Okay? So did they?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Did they have experiences there that they were like, we
don't want I don't know.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
If they if I don't know if they could pinpoint
something that happened to them that led them to the
conclusion that it was important for their kids to be
raised elsewhere or specifically in Africa. I think they just
themselves just felt fiercely connected to Africa and wanted their
kids to have that.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Okay now.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Also, I didn't even start with why we're here today though,
as we're talking about Okay Africa Okay Player, but it's
under a new name now, Arraya Media, so just for
people who are listening okay Player. I remember when Quest
Love launched okay Player twenty six years that is crazy.
He was so early and ahead of the curve, and
(03:09):
I feel like he's like that with a lot of things.
But when he first launched that, it was kind of
more like a connecting.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Music the music community, right. It was those who were
passionate about music, passionate about the culture. It was a
safe space for lovers of music and makers of music
to come together and share opinion, vibe, disagree, talk shack
to each other. And that's what they did. And in
a way it with like early social media, right, and
it existed on something called the boards.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, and I remember those boards, those.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Boards, right, and they're still going. And I tip my
hat to quest Love just the foresight to understand that
we need those spaces.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I just think back to how things used to because
we didn't have Twitter, Instagram, YouTube the time.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Simple. So yeah, definitely the simpler.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
But now it is also I think leveled us out
in certain areas where people who didn't have access to
be able to produce or do certain things, or do
an interview with a magazine that's gonna come out, you know,
two to three months from now to promote.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It does give people who are creatives.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I agree with that so so much. I think also
when you think about people of color, their access to opportunity,
which is large, they've largely been kept out of by gatekeepers, right,
who all too often, particularly in media, don't look like us.
That has held back a lot of creatives and a
lot of people with immense talent who just maybe haven't
(04:41):
had the connections with the opportunity to be in the
room and to build. Social media has eliminated those gatekeepers
in many regards and has allowed people to get in
there and basically chart their own course. And it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, it's amazing and get some instant feedback.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
And it's a fare. I mean, I'm watching people do
things on social media. I'm like, we're how did they
come up with that? Sometimes I can barely post.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
And you're like, and I have a space for them
now at a rage?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I do? I do? And I think that's the other thing.
You know, it's been such a blessing to go from
being at CNN for thirteen and a half years, where
you know, you're largely at the beck and call of
the executives who tell you where to be, how to look,
what to say, what to do, to having your own
autonomy and being able to lead an organization that is
specifically created to uplift black voices and create a space
(05:29):
for black creatives. That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I think what is amazing about that is also being
able to tell stories from our voices. Yes, and that's
important too because I also feel media is so powerful
because they can choose what stories to highlight, but also
choose how those stories.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Are presented completely.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So depending on what you watch on the news, you'll
have a whole different view of what's happening in this
country and around the world.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, I think that. I think that so much. I mean,
depending on where you go in terms of the media landscape,
where you're consuming your news, you are consuming it through
a lens, a particular lens, particular POV and so you
know it is and again, very often it is not
with the too often it's not with us in mind
(06:14):
right in terms of how those stories are being told.
A lot of stories, you know, particularly if we talk
about Africa, for instance, maybe about war, tragedy, disease, you know, desperation, trauma,
paorn if you will, It's very different. When you get
to be in the position where you get to commission
stories and commission how what is told and how it
(06:37):
is shaped, it's deeply empowering.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
It's interesting now because I feel like narratives have shifted.
I see so many people are like, I want to
buy land in Africa. I want to do this. Everybody
was going Aghana, yes, did you do that?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
I did not.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I actually would rather go when everyone's not going. So
I was talking about that the only place I've been
is to South Africa and Johannesburg, and so that was
an amazing experience.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
It's beautiful, Yeah, I mean, I do say it so
Africa for beginners though.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, I was there for an event and for a
women's event.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
But I also know that like that flight is no,
it is long. You gotta have like because I.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Was only there for a few days and I was like,
next time I go back, I need to be able
to be here for at least a couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
You do, and to soak it up and to move
between Cape Town and Johannes Bug and you know, do
wine country. It is stunning. The people are amazing. But
I do think that again I'm biased. I'm West African.
I like I fly my West African bias. I fly
that flag proudly. You need to come to West Africa.
You need to come. You need to come to Cirlian
(07:46):
for the food and for the beaches, and then obviously
you need to do Nigeria. And Ghana.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I want to say, when it came to the food there,
everything tastes so much more fresh. And I just think
about how there's certain things that we eat here that
are not even allowed, oh yeah, in other countries. And
it's like, I feel like America is the worst at
that when it comes to like what is the cheapest
way to get this done, to preserve it for the longest,
no matter what risk it is to our health.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
And that's not just our food but also everything.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Yeah, everything, everything from our products, what we put in
on our skin, what we ingest pharmaceutically, what we eat
on our dinner tables. Everything. The level of regulation here
is so prone to manipulation, you know. And these large
corporations how they move is is they move here so
differently from the way they move in Europe and other
(08:39):
possible We know that just in terms of the OPI
old crisis, right, what they were able to get on
shelves here that they weren't able to get on shelves
in Europe. So we know that our regulation there is
there's some gaps which ultimately leave us as the victims.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, I mean I tasted the difference.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
You can taste it in the food, I was like this,
it just feels amazing.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
You know. I'll also say this like just being in Africa,
the sun, the vibe, like the food just feels it tastes,
everything feels different, tastes differently. Your sensations are rewired to
experience life differently.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And yeah, and I think even with movies, with media
with people actually traveling and going and the music, I
mean when it comes to afrobeats and how that's also
united everybody and made people feel like this is where
I want to be and I want to go here.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
I think that also our plays a large part.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Listen, the music and the afrobeats being the export, like
the continent's biggest creative export at this moment in time
is amazing to watch. I mean, we have a podcast
that we're doing as under the Okay Africa banner, Afrobeats Intelligence,
posted by Joey Aikhon, and it is an amazing show
where he gives you a front row view to how
(09:52):
the industry is being shaped, that the executives, the artists.
We just shot with you a Savage a few days ago.
Joe boy loj like great guests in this season and
just to hear and in those conversations how it has
moved from back in twenty sixteen when it really start
to take off to where it is now where people
are selling out MSG right.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Right, that's wild. Yeah, like breaking records.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Breaking records, seeing you know, burna Boy doing boss you
know campaigns, and you know, seeing you know Thames on
the red carpet at the met Gala. You know, these
people have become global superstars and it's not just the
music they're bringing, it's the culture right and opening a
window to Africa for people, And as an African, I mean,
that's that's just beautiful.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Even seeing like you know what I was just thinking
about culturally too, sometimes like what happens in certain parts
of Africa and how we perceive it here is just
so different. And I think that's you know too, even
like if we look at how we use words here
and how they're Yeah, you know what, but we also
have to be accepting of that, because I do think
(11:01):
sometimes Americans can be really arrogant and thinking that we're
the center of everything. Yeah, I mean, I mean it's
the truth when I travel, because I also think traveling
and for you, it's fascinating to me because You've lived
in all these different places, right, so you're a person
that's culture. But I also feel like that makes you
(11:22):
also have a lot more acceptance and understanding of people
who are different than you.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
I am so grateful for my journey. You know, I
was born in England, my parents are from Sera Leone.
I live in America, so I'm what they call third culture, right,
and now I have a daughter who was born in America.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
We're gonna talk about that in a set and.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
So you know, it is amazing to have experienced all
these different cultures and to have that understanding, that insight,
and I think it makes you more empathetic. I think
it makes you more open minded. I think that's what
travel does, and it allows me. I like to think
it allows me to move through the world with a
level of ease, is you know, just by virtue of
(12:02):
those different experiences.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Now, you just mentioned your daughter, and when I first
met you, I had to come up to you and
tell you that that story to me is something that
is just beautiful. You decided you wanted to have a baby,
but you had gotten divorced. Yeah, I saw you posting
on Valentine's Day wedding dress from.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Out of storage. I seen it until that day, that's
you know.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
But there was like the box came out and I
was like, oh, that's where it is. I wonder that
had gone and what condition it was in. And I
pulled out the dress and I was like, whoa. I
like a different time and place and when I you know,
I wore it. Well, first of all, my life was
so different. I think I got married in my very
late Thursday. I think I might have been thirty seven,
(12:49):
and at that point I thought, you know, it's going
to get married and have a baby and it would
just be very straightforward. My mom walked me down the aisle.
At age forty, I was getting a divorce. So it
was a very short lived marriage. I have like closed
that are older than my then the marriage no shade
to my ex husband, who's a good, good man, just
(13:11):
not my man, as I like to say. And by
forty I was divorced and my mom had a catastrophic stroke.
And then I spent like six years really just focused
on her recovery, which sadly just did not go as planned.
And I got to like forty six and I thought, wow, like,
first of all, where did six years go and I
(13:33):
my mother's illness did a lot for me. It really
gave me, and it gave me important perspective. My mother
was an incredibly accomplished politician, academic, the first woman to
be on the ticket to be vice president in our country,
and so she helped me write the constitution, She helped
mediate peace when there was a civil war. She did
(13:54):
tremendous things. But here's the thing. I say all of that,
but when she took ill and had this catastrophic stroke,
it meant nothing, right, meant absolutely nothing. We strive for
these accolades, we strive to be in the room, we
strive for the assignments and these moments in the light.
But A, your health is everything. B. When you take ill,
(14:17):
it's really your family who are there for you if
they are right. And I realized that I was a
person who was there for my mum. And six years on,
I realized that CNN, all of this stuff that I've
done means nothing. I want to have a kid like.
It really grounded me and helped me understand what is important.
And I realized that my greatest regret in life. You know,
(14:38):
if I came to the end of my life, and
I was asked, what did I regret? It would have
been not having become a mother because I was chasing
glory or you know.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
And that's an issue a lot of very accomplished and
successful women have, is that you kind of keep on
putting it off. Now, the conversation about freezing eggs is
such a way more something I never even thought about
when I was younger. Okay, so then you decided to.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
So here's the thing. So I got to forty six,
and then I started dating an actor and you had
to curse on the show. Yes, okay, he was so shitty.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Right, but he still was like I was like.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
But you know, and I was like forty six, forty
seven and I was like, okay, so let's see where
this is going. Could he be? I mean, he was
never going to be the one. I mean he was
again good guy but way too broken. But I was like,
in this really tortuous relationship which triggered all of my
like abandonment issues and just like it was just a lot,
(15:36):
and the relationship ended and I'll never forget. Like he
was like we was supposed to hang out and then
I lost min He's like I can't and I was
like boiling my eyes out and I was just like,
this is shit. And I remember I was in New
York at the time. It's like I'm going back to LA,
packed my bags, got to LA, and I thought, I
can't do this. Not only can I not do this relationship,
I can't wait for another shitty guy to like waste
(16:00):
more of my time. I'm just gonna have a kid.
I'm just like it was literally and I actually call
him my buddha. I call this guy my budder because
it was my path to enlighten me, Like I'm not mad.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
At serve the purpose.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
He served the purpose of you realizing what it is
that you wanted to do and to ass her because
you could have said, well, because a lot of times
I'm gonna do this too. You're like, I got to
hurry up and have a kid. Whoever i'm with, I'm
just gonna totally yeah. And then now I have to
deal with this person totally right.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
And then I did see him while I was pregnant
and I said to him, I was like, he came
around and I was like, thank you so much for
being so shitty, because you know, you led me to
this place. And he was like, can I be godparent?
I was like, fuck, no, you gotta be God god parism,
Oh you can't be god parents. So Menn like literally, so,
(16:49):
but now I have a twenty six month old beautiful girl.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I'm so cute. She has your whole face.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Thank you. I used a donor. I went through the site.
I looked them up. Now so amazing. You can hear
their voices, they give them questions, they do all the screening,
all the testing. It's like it's a thing. It's not like,
oh those shoes sort of loo.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Can hear their voyage?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, you can hear their voice.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Do you get to keep that?
Speaker 3 (17:11):
So? Yeah? And you get baby pictures? And and for me,
the donor that I chose, I was struck by his
acknowledgments of the importance and the power of Africa and
how it's like at the center of civilization and how
more people should go And I just found that really
that is amazing, really touching that he had that do they.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Have the aption of if they went to ever meet? Okay?
Did he want to?
Speaker 3 (17:35):
No?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
And I chose him because of that, Like this macket,
all right, that's what that I can deal with. You so,
but you know, I also am aware of the fact
that where we are with genetics and things, you know,
ten years from now, she will if she wants to,
probably be able to find him if she wants to,
right right, just by virtue of the way science.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Because he do that.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
My cousin's cousin.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
People find out who their parents aren't to I know,
say that happen like my whole life.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
This was my dad and.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
It's my uncle. So I'm grateful. People often ask me,
They're like, do you do you miss not having a
man as part of the experience, but you can't miss
what you never had. And I have a lot. I
have a really great village around me that were around
me as I was going through the pregnancy, and I
(18:31):
you know, I had my baby, and my daughter has
a lot of like I have a brother. I have
lots of great men in my life who provide that
male figure.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Did you date while you were pregnant?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
I'm just asking because some people would feel, like I've
seen it in movies that yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
And they feel vulnerable and they want you know when
I get it. I get it. No, No, no, I didn't.
And even now I think a lot about people ask me.
They're like, will you remarry? Like, how do you feel
about dating? I'm totally open to it, but I always
say he has to be worthy of us, and he
has to be a person of great moral character, someone
(19:09):
who's stable and settled, preferably someone who's been married before
so they've done this before. But yeah, and someone who's
just not out looking to run streets.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Okay, so maybe not somebody younger.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Funnily enough, all the men I end up like dating.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Ten to be younger than you look very young.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I mean I'm forty nine, which is great, so thank you.
So most of the time it meant ask slightly. Even
my ex husband was slightly younger than me. But it's
I think they just have to pass or cross certain
thresholds of life, have been through certain trials at which
point it's not the age per se, it's the life experience,
which if they've done those things.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, Because I think people in different, even in different
cities here in the US, they're different when it comes
to maturity.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yes, you tell me about that. What are you thinking?
Like between let's say New York, New yor New York Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
I feel like in New York people get married later
than they do, and say the Midwest, I feel like
family starting earlier is more of a thing. Yes, like
people set it down earlier. And I also feel like
that about like, you know, further South. Great, but I
feel like New York might be the last place and
maybe La too, like people wait later.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Yeah, I mean I would absolutely agree with that. I
think there's definitely a sense. I think maybe maybe it's
just there's so much more to do, there's so much
more life to be experienced. Yeah, I lived in Atlanta
for ten years. No shade to the folks in Atlanta,
but it's like, what else am I going to do
if I don't get married round here? Right? So it's
just and I got married in Atlanta, So I'm speaking
from experience. That's you know, and so but in New York.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
But and even for you making this decision right with IVF,
I know there's a lot of judgment that comes to that,
especially age wise, because people would be like, how dare
she you have a Yeah, baby, that's so selfish when
you're this, I've seen all of it online and so
not about you, but just in I probably say that
when somebody's like, I'm pregnant this is something we should
(21:04):
celebrate because, to be honest, you know, I was talking
to my girl laid them who's a doula. We had
this whole conversation about it, and yes, MAMAA love her.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
And she was just.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Saying how back in the day, people were dying a
lot earlier diseases. They weren't having the modern technology, the
science that we have now. So yes, it was a
lot riskier. But nowadays, if you take care of yourself,
and there's so many things that you can do, you
can be forty seven years old and.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Have a baby and live, you know, a long healthy
life and you know, God willing and be there for
your child till they reach you know, a level of
like adulthood, right, And so I don't think I you know, listen,
my mother had me young, and now my mother's incapacitated, right,
So who knows how the dice is gonna roll? Right,
(21:53):
So there's someone who had a baby young and now
she's not here. Right.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
You can't predict what's gonna happen and if it's.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Going to happen, and so you can't live in that
space of fear. I think all you can do is
make sure that the time you have with your child,
you are very present and you pour into them, and
you you you prioritize them, and you will be you
will be doing your part to create an amazing human being, right,
a good a person who does good in this world,
who brings light into this world. And the rest it's
(22:21):
beyond your control.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Now, your other baby is a ray of media. So
I want to make sure we discuss that you change.
So as far as creating something new and evolving what
that is as a media conglomorate, what made you say
is time to change it in because I know there
was like some drama with the previous CEO saw Quest
Love even when he had posted there were some issues there.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah, there was some. There was there was some there
was some darkness there in terms of chapters of past chapters.
Before I joined the company, and so it was previously
known as Okay Media, which is really a riff on
Okay Player Okay Africa, and so it was called Okay
Media and then there was this unfortunate chapter that you know,
(23:05):
brought a lot of disruption to the company, and the
person before me in this role left and so when
I joined the company, candidly, you know, I'm not one
for living my life in half measures of like just
being okay, right, and so for me, the name always
felt a little bit kind of felt a little a
(23:26):
little just mediocre, like the brands themselves mean something, you know,
okay player, okay Africa, like they meant something, but okay media.
In and of itself, I always thought there could be
a more dynamic name, there could be something that means more,
and so, in light of everything that had gone on,
I really just did not want to take that baggage
(23:48):
on myself, and so I came across the name A Rare,
which means sunshine and light, which to me was a
beautiful way of turning the page on the darkness that
had come before that dark chat perfect and I thought,
I also felt that it's also part of the mission,
right to bring our stories into the light. And so
(24:08):
that's why I settled on that name. And you again,
people always like, why did you change it? We needed
a new beginning.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
You know what. I love.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I saw an interview where you said you were wanted
to focus on meaningful work versus controversial and I think
that's a big significant difference because sometimes people think in
order for it to hit. It's got to be controversy
because controversy sells.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
And we see these you know.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
These headlines that are just shocking that will make people
be like, it's clickbaity, and that's what gets people going.
But for you, it's more about being meaningful. It doesn't
have to be controversial.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah, it's more about being meaningful, being impactful, right, I
would say, you know, what we want to entertain, we
want to inform an uplift as well, and so it's
really important that the work we do kind of broadens
people to rise and provides a different perspective, deepens their
knowledge and the in You can go other places if
you want clickbait stuff and listen, I'll click on it myself.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
But that doesn't mean I want to grow through social media.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
I mean I want to be the producer of it.
And you know, again, people can chase numbers, and I
get it, media companies. You want audience, you want reach,
you want impressions. That's all important. But I would ask
whether I would question the durability or I'd question the
(25:27):
loyalty of those audiences and the sustainability of those things.
What we're trying to do is build I mean we're
twenty six years old. We're building something that endures because
it's meaningful, because it's high quality, because we are doing
it to serve a higher purpose.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
What do you think about now?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Even just talking about journalistic integrity and things that are happening,
a lot of people are also covering this ditty trial,
and I'm seeing so many things online and a.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Lot of jokes too, and really troubling, and.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
A lot of of incorrect reporting or people that maybe
aren't I could say, yeah, they're not necessarily qualified to
be able to explain what's really happening, because it also
gets very distracting, and people also will be reading things
that are just simply incorrect, so responsibly reporting on that
because everybody now is like online like girl in court today,
(26:23):
let me tell you, you know. And it's starting to
feel a little bit like people are also thinking, well,
what did he do wrong? He just was having freequfs.
He just likes to have sex. But they're not understanding
how this is all unfolding and working. Like even in
the first couple of days, I saw people just acting like, ah,
this is a why she's getting off Scott free.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
But it's so early to be able to tell.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah, I mean, I just think that the Diddy trial
is so I find it so disheartening in terms of
the reactions that have been online to Cassie's testimony and
how people have minimized this woman's trauma. And you know,
in some way, it's almost like in some places lionized.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
You know, like she got thirty.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
But about you know, and it's you have all these
people now in the space where the bar to entry
for media and having your own platform has been lowered
through social media, everyone can click their camera and turn
it on themselves and they can speak. You know, while
we love the democratization of access, it it comes with
(27:30):
responsibility and the cost when now you have people who
are ill informed, ill prepared to deal with something as
complex and tragic as this, just spouting right and spouting
wrong information, helping form really really wrong headed notions about this,
not legally trained, not in any way even mindful of
(27:53):
the fact that some of the things are saying are
triggering to other survivors out there, like it's just the
whole thing. It's just to me, it's actually it's just
really disturbing to me. As you can tell this is
something that you know, I'm not saying you can't have
an opinion, but what people aren't doing is putting that caveat.
(28:14):
I'm not a lawyer, just my opinion, right and kind
of like and knowing how far to go right?
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Right?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
So do you have people like, as you say, saying, oh,
he's going to get off. They haven't proved that. It's
you know, ricompos rockets like what what do you know?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Right? And it's still nowhere near It's nowhere done. Yeah,
nowhere near.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
It's nowhere near done.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
People were mad that kid Cutty took the stance, I know, but.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
What does that say about? What does that say about
society that people mad that Kid Cutty spoke out and
people are mad that he's been that they're trying to
hold this man accountable? Why?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Right? Right?
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Why? What does that say about how they value women
or how they value our places and our safety and
our voices.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
You know, it's interesting to see this happenings parallel with
you know, Meganistallion and people are attacking her at the
same time.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yeah, it is, it is, it is, you know, But
also it was just comes back to this thing, you know,
in terms of the value of black women's lives and
our safety, you know, and our bodily integrity, and how
somehow that's a toss up, like, you know, how much
do we care about them? Like how much do we
want to protect them versus you know, particularly if a
man's position is on the line or certainly being challenged.
(29:30):
And I just find it like and I don't know
how we are going to correct that. I don't know
how we're going to correct that to have black men
understand that they should want us to be safe and
they should want to see the men who harm has
held accountable. You know, I don't know how we make
that the norm versus it always being about let's protect
(29:52):
powerful black men, right right, And I don't know what
that is about. I don't know why it is why
they are considered more important and that they feel that
they should be able to get away with bad behavior.
I mean the R. Kelly thing as well, right.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
And people don't understand why women are so find it
difficult to even to.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Speak up when this is the reaction. When they're going
to able to.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Do speak, People have jokes.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
People are attacking you, People are saying it's your part.
People are saying you wanted it. People are saying, well,
why didn't you say something the moment that it happened, And.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
There's a lot of reasons.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
There's a lot of reasons because there is the fear
of not being believed. There's the fact that you've in
many cases been groomed and psychologically broken to not even
realize extent of the abuse you're enjuring, to somehow even
take on the blame that maybe in some cases of violence,
that somehow you ask for it and you're deserving of it.
To feel that there's you know, the shame if it
(30:47):
got out. There's so many complex reasons, and I just
wish those would be acknowledged. And then again, even when
first it goes and there's a range it's chi lying,
then it's oh she's telling the truth, but she deserves it,
or oh she's telling the truth, you don't deserve it, but
it ain't that bad.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
She got her money.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
She got her money.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Because I think the other misconception is people think that
if you're doing a civil suit for money, that means
that's all you want. And that's the truth is that
certain cases like rape, it's very hard to prove. So
a lot of times you have to because you can't
prove it beyond a reasonable That doesn't mean yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
You have to go, you have to go to the
civil right. And I will say this, and I said
I've said this before, my level of admiration for Cassie,
my level of deep appreciation for what she did, because
you we all have to acknowledge that what she did
wasn't just even about her. It was about every other
(31:48):
survivor and helping them understand that you don't have to
live in shame. Your life isn't over. You can start
again and you can rebuild. And that was the most
powerful example of that. And I am in deep, deep
awe of that woman and the strength it took at
her stage of pregnancy to do that and to look
(32:11):
him in the eye and say, this is what you
did to me. Now, it's a whole other case that
they have to prove, but the fact that she got
to say her part, right, I I you know, I
think she should be a Woman of the Year. I
really do.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
I just I think, Okay, I mean, that was a
lot of things to have to get up there in
front of the world and say and be honest about.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
In front of your parents, in front of your husband,
you know, even if they knew, even but to have
to say it publicly, knowing that the people who are
going to be judging her and looking at her. But
you know, I think what her husband said was again
also incredibly beautiful and moving. He did not heal her,
She healed herself.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
And So for you thinking about now, like you said,
bringing that darkness that was with the previous CEO, and
how your style of leadership is and how you are
restructuring things at ARRAYA aka Okay Player and Okay Africa,
what can we look forward to?
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Oh gosh, just so much. I mean we before these,
you know, in the last couple of years, before I joined,
these were straightforward, like just digital outlets, digital publications, websites.
Basically you could access us by going to our dot
coms or you could just go through to our socials.
But in the four years that I've been in the
CEO chair, the focus really has been on turning it
(33:29):
into a multimedia company. And so aside from the dot
coms and the socials we now have we have our
own studios, Okay Player studios where we have digital originals
like digging, so any you know artists out there who
want to come in and then be part of the
show where you dig through creative records and talk about
what they mean to you. You get to pick your selection.
(33:50):
We have Okay, that's funny, our own comedy shows, so
we have digital originals, a whole slate of this, and
I started a podcast division with Almanac of Rap hosted
by Donald Well being our very first one.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
That just want a web be congratulations. That's a big deal,
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Thank you. And now we have a whole new state
of shows that are dropping in May, including Afrobeats Intelligence
that we talked about to be clear, hosted by Door
Montgomery with Freddie b TV.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
I saw them at the event, which is amazing.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
They are such a talented duo, sort of giving you
that that take on the news and what's happening through
their own lens, sharp that they're funny and they're smart,
they're wicked smart. And then another show called Noahala, which
is sort of like a comedy skits show like Young Diasporan,
sort of like daily show, like just that kind of
witty take on what's happening. And then we also have
(34:43):
a show coming out much later in the year. We've
shown COOTI for the Kuti's son that is going to
take on more in Africa view and a kind of
some might say a controversial view of some of the
narratives around Africa.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Okay, I'm looking forward to all of this, and I
I know when I was there, they're like, so, if
you know anybody that you know has a.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Who wants to do a new show, who's got some
show ideas, somebody might want to partner, Like, we have
full production services, we have a great team. Obviously, we
have vibrant socials with big with big audience, big reach,
so we're looking to partner.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
I love that and it's interesting. I was having this
conversation with people who are also starting podcasts or thinking
about it, and so some people feel like, well, it's
oversaturated right now, and I don't feel like there's space.
But I feel like things always break through when they're
really great and they're consistent.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yes, I think I think that's the key. Consistency and
also patience. Yeah, overnight success.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
People be thinking like, oh man, this only guy x
amount of these it is not working.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
But it takes a while.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
It takes one. When you look at the top ten
of podcasts currently, when you look at you know, whether
it's Omta Experts or whatever it is, they've been around
for a minute. None of those shows just like popped
up and just you know, storm to the top of
the charts. So it takes time. And also it takes
time for you to define, to like refine your craft
and your voice and really figure out what the show's
(36:11):
hook is. And sometimes that's that iterative process takes time.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
But this is great.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
How do you see this growing in the future too,
because I know you already have plans. I mean you've
been there, you've been restructuring. It's kind of like a
full rebrand. And also, like we said, evolution is important too,
so taking it from what it was. It's been around,
as we know, for twenty six years, which is quite
some time. But in order to continue to grow, it's
(36:39):
got to evolve.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
It's got to evolve. It's got to evolve, and you know,
we want to make sure that we have a slate
of programming. I always say that now they're not a
great analogy today because share price continues to draw, but
like I would say that we're a little bit like Nike,
Like we are that brand where whether you're listening to
our podcast you're buying our merch you're getting our newsletter,
you're checking out on so there's something for you here.
(37:02):
And my mission is basically to make us a daily
habit for folks, a household name, so that at some
point in the day you are engaging with our content.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
That newsletter helps. You know that newsletter. I get the newsletter.
It's quest left still involved.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
You know. You know that man is one you know
for Oscars, and he's busy on the road producing multile films,
so he's not involved in the day to day, but
we like to think of him more like as a
kind of like our spiritual godfather. Right at the stage,
all right.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Love it well, I said, thank you so much for
coming through and when things are happening, whatever you need
for us to amplify. I know we're going to be
working with some of your podcasts two to come on
as on my podcast lip Service. We're going to have
them on there too, because I do want to make
sure that I'm working to us to elevate what's going on.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
There and what you have, because I think you're amazing saying.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
I think you're amazing too, And this has been such
a tread and super excited to see all the things
you're doing, and also just to congruct you for the
moves you've made to step into your own life.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
You want a Gracy I just got back from the
Gracies way. I just want to Gracie as well, so
we're proud of that. But the work that you've done,
you know, listen the Gracy Awards. I love that is
an amazing space to be in to see all these
other women who are empowering each other and so just
things like that I think are so important. But how
can people reach you if they're like or your team,
(38:25):
if they want to reach out?
Speaker 1 (38:25):
What's the best way?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
I think the West Listen, I mean slimantarium, You've a
clean slim and toar DMS, I am I am ixious
to say on ig reach out to us and you
know again we have reach out to Okay Player Online
or Okay Africa. You can directly DM the teams we're
(38:47):
constantly checking. But seriously, if you we're looking to grow
this family and we want more diverse voices, all ages,
all generations, as many stories as we can tell because
we're building something special.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
All right, we might have something for you. Okay, perfect
all right when it's way up, way up,
What's up.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
It's way up with angela ye, and I'm here getting
advice from iushous to say thank you so much. He also, well,
she's changing my life already for the better. But I'm
just so honored to have you here today. I told
you I really admire the work that you've been doing
ever since I first seen you.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Want CNN thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
And you know you have an you have a book
out called Beneath the Tearmentry that came out some years ago.
But you're a person that's been highlighting stories that other
people don't touch.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Yeah, I mean I think the way I look at it,
I think journey speaking. When it comes to stories about
black women and girls, journey speaking, they don't get as
much attention, if they get attention at all. So as
a black woman, and also specifically as a black woman
from Africa, I feel that, having been blessed to have
some form of platform and exposure, I need to use
(00:50):
my voice.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
And you are from Sierra Leone and then you moved
to the UK for it was it for.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
School, So it's some sort of a little bit the
other way around. I was born in the My parents
are from Serralian both of them. I was born in
the UK when they were doing second degrees. You know
that old post colonialism story where these countries had you know,
European or French overlords, if you will, and then those
people that those countries could go broad and study. So
(01:17):
my parents went to the UK. They had us there, myself,
my brother and sister, and when I was seven, they
moved us back to Serrali and so I lived there
from seven to sixteen, then went back.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Why did they move back?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
You know, it's really interesting because and I think about
this a lot, because it has meant so much to
me and who I am to date. They moved us
back because they very much wanted us to grow up
in Africa, to feel rooted, to feel connected, to never
feel feel like outsiders, and to also, and now when
I look at it, to grow up in a place
(01:49):
that was majority black, where you know, my notion of
what is beautiful, my notion of what is valuable, my
notion of my own safety are paramount, right, which in
other places like the US and the UK is not
the case. Right, We are battling notions. Many black girls
are dealing with that issue. Am I pretty enough? My
hair isn't the norm. How do I show up? How
(02:11):
am I see reflected back to me myself on screen
on social So anyway, my parents gave me what I
think is the biggest gift.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Were they did they see something You're the middle Are
you the middle town?
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Okay? So did they?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Did they have experiences there that they were like, we
don't want I don't know.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
If they if I don't know if they could pinpoint
something that happened to them that led them to the
conclusion that it was important for their kids to be
raised elsewhere or specifically in Africa. I think they just
themselves just felt fiercely connected to Africa and wanted their
kids to have that.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Okay now.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Also, I didn't even start with why we're here today though,
as we're talking about Okay Africa Okay Player, but it's
under a new name now, Arraya Media, so just for
people who are listening okay Player. I remember when Quest
Love launched okay Player twenty six years that is crazy.
He was so early and ahead of the curve, and
(03:09):
I feel like he's like that with a lot of things.
But when he first launched that, it was kind of
more like a connecting.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Music the music community, right. It was those who were
passionate about music, passionate about the culture. It was a
safe space for lovers of music and makers of music
to come together and share opinion, vibe, disagree, talk shack
to each other. And that's what they did. And in
a way it with like early social media, right, and
it existed on something called the boards.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, and I remember those boards, those.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Boards, right, and they're still going. And I tip my
hat to quest Love just the foresight to understand that
we need those spaces.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I just think back to how things used to because
we didn't have Twitter, Instagram, YouTube the time.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Simple. So yeah, definitely the simpler.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
But now it is also I think leveled us out
in certain areas where people who didn't have access to
be able to produce or do certain things, or do
an interview with a magazine that's gonna come out, you know,
two to three months from now to promote.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It does give people who are creatives.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I agree with that so so much. I think also
when you think about people of color, their access to opportunity,
which is large, they've largely been kept out of by gatekeepers, right,
who all too often, particularly in media, don't look like us.
That has held back a lot of creatives and a
lot of people with immense talent who just maybe haven't
(04:41):
had the connections with the opportunity to be in the
room and to build. Social media has eliminated those gatekeepers
in many regards and has allowed people to get in
there and basically chart their own course. And it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, it's amazing and get some instant feedback.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
And it's a fare. I mean, I'm watching people do
things on social media. I'm like, we're how did they
come up with that? Sometimes I can barely post.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
And you're like, and I have a space for them
now at a rage?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I do? I do? And I think that's the other thing.
You know, it's been such a blessing to go from
being at CNN for thirteen and a half years, where
you know, you're largely at the beck and call of
the executives who tell you where to be, how to look,
what to say, what to do, to having your own
autonomy and being able to lead an organization that is
specifically created to uplift black voices and create a space
(05:29):
for black creatives. That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I think what is amazing about that is also being
able to tell stories from our voices. Yes, and that's
important too because I also feel media is so powerful
because they can choose what stories to highlight, but also
choose how those stories.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Are presented completely.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So depending on what you watch on the news, you'll
have a whole different view of what's happening in this
country and around the world.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, I think that. I think that so much. I mean,
depending on where you go in terms of the media landscape,
where you're consuming your news, you are consuming it through
a lens, a particular lens, particular POV and so you
know it is and again, very often it is not
with the too often it's not with us in mind
(06:14):
right in terms of how those stories are being told.
A lot of stories, you know, particularly if we talk
about Africa, for instance, maybe about war, tragedy, disease, you know, desperation, trauma,
paorn if you will, It's very different. When you get
to be in the position where you get to commission
stories and commission how what is told and how it
(06:37):
is shaped, it's deeply empowering.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
It's interesting now because I feel like narratives have shifted.
I see so many people are like, I want to
buy land in Africa. I want to do this. Everybody
was going Aghana, yes, did you do that?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
I did not.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I actually would rather go when everyone's not going. So
I was talking about that the only place I've been
is to South Africa and Johannesburg, and so that was
an amazing experience.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
It's beautiful, Yeah, I mean, I do say it so
Africa for beginners though.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, I was there for an event and for a
women's event.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
But I also know that like that flight is no,
it is long. You gotta have like because I.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Was only there for a few days and I was like,
next time I go back, I need to be able
to be here for at least a couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
You do, and to soak it up and to move
between Cape Town and Johannes Bug and you know, do
wine country. It is stunning. The people are amazing. But
I do think that again I'm biased. I'm West African.
I like I fly my West African bias. I fly
that flag proudly. You need to come to West Africa.
You need to come. You need to come to Cirlian
(07:46):
for the food and for the beaches, and then obviously
you need to do Nigeria. And Ghana.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I want to say, when it came to the food there,
everything tastes so much more fresh. And I just think
about how there's certain things that we eat here that
are not even allowed, oh yeah, in other countries. And
it's like, I feel like America is the worst at
that when it comes to like what is the cheapest
way to get this done, to preserve it for the longest,
no matter what risk it is to our health.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
And that's not just our food but also everything.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Yeah, everything, everything from our products, what we put in
on our skin, what we ingest pharmaceutically, what we eat
on our dinner tables. Everything. The level of regulation here
is so prone to manipulation, you know. And these large
corporations how they move is is they move here so
differently from the way they move in Europe and other
(08:39):
possible We know that just in terms of the OPI
old crisis, right, what they were able to get on
shelves here that they weren't able to get on shelves
in Europe. So we know that our regulation there is
there's some gaps which ultimately leave us as the victims.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, I mean I tasted the difference.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
You can taste it in the food, I was like this,
it just feels amazing.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
You know. I'll also say this like just being in Africa,
the sun, the vibe, like the food just feels it tastes,
everything feels different, tastes differently. Your sensations are rewired to
experience life differently.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And yeah, and I think even with movies, with media
with people actually traveling and going and the music, I
mean when it comes to afrobeats and how that's also
united everybody and made people feel like this is where
I want to be and I want to go here.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
I think that also our plays a large part.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Listen, the music and the afrobeats being the export, like
the continent's biggest creative export at this moment in time
is amazing to watch. I mean, we have a podcast
that we're doing as under the Okay Africa banner, Afrobeats Intelligence,
posted by Joey Aikhon, and it is an amazing show
where he gives you a front row view to how
(09:52):
the industry is being shaped, that the executives, the artists.
We just shot with you a Savage a few days ago.
Joe boy loj like great guests in this season and
just to hear and in those conversations how it has
moved from back in twenty sixteen when it really start
to take off to where it is now where people
are selling out MSG right.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Right, that's wild. Yeah, like breaking records.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Breaking records, seeing you know, burna Boy doing boss you
know campaigns, and you know, seeing you know Thames on
the red carpet at the met Gala. You know, these
people have become global superstars and it's not just the
music they're bringing, it's the culture right and opening a
window to Africa for people, And as an African, I mean,
that's that's just beautiful.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Even seeing like you know what I was just thinking
about culturally too, sometimes like what happens in certain parts
of Africa and how we perceive it here is just
so different. And I think that's you know too, even
like if we look at how we use words here
and how they're Yeah, you know what, but we also
have to be accepting of that, because I do think
(11:01):
sometimes Americans can be really arrogant and thinking that we're
the center of everything. Yeah, I mean, I mean it's
the truth when I travel, because I also think traveling
and for you, it's fascinating to me because You've lived
in all these different places, right, so you're a person
that's culture. But I also feel like that makes you
(11:22):
also have a lot more acceptance and understanding of people
who are different than you.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
I am so grateful for my journey. You know, I
was born in England, my parents are from Sera Leone.
I live in America, so I'm what they call third culture, right,
and now I have a daughter who was born in America.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
We're gonna talk about that in a set and.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
So you know, it is amazing to have experienced all
these different cultures and to have that understanding, that insight,
and I think it makes you more empathetic. I think
it makes you more open minded. I think that's what
travel does, and it allows me. I like to think
it allows me to move through the world with a
level of ease, is you know, just by virtue of
(12:02):
those different experiences.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Now, you just mentioned your daughter, and when I first
met you, I had to come up to you and
tell you that that story to me is something that
is just beautiful. You decided you wanted to have a baby,
but you had gotten divorced. Yeah, I saw you posting
on Valentine's Day wedding dress from.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Out of storage. I seen it until that day, that's
you know.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
But there was like the box came out and I
was like, oh, that's where it is. I wonder that
had gone and what condition it was in. And I
pulled out the dress and I was like, whoa. I
like a different time and place and when I you know,
I wore it. Well, first of all, my life was
so different. I think I got married in my very
late Thursday. I think I might have been thirty seven,
(12:49):
and at that point I thought, you know, it's going
to get married and have a baby and it would
just be very straightforward. My mom walked me down the aisle.
At age forty, I was getting a divorce. So it
was a very short lived marriage. I have like closed
that are older than my then the marriage no shade
to my ex husband, who's a good, good man, just
(13:11):
not my man, as I like to say. And by
forty I was divorced and my mom had a catastrophic stroke.
And then I spent like six years really just focused
on her recovery, which sadly just did not go as planned.
And I got to like forty six and I thought, wow, like,
first of all, where did six years go and I
(13:33):
my mother's illness did a lot for me. It really
gave me, and it gave me important perspective. My mother
was an incredibly accomplished politician, academic, the first woman to
be on the ticket to be vice president in our country,
and so she helped me write the constitution, She helped
mediate peace when there was a civil war. She did
(13:54):
tremendous things. But here's the thing. I say all of that,
but when she took ill and had this catastrophic stroke,
it meant nothing, right, meant absolutely nothing. We strive for
these accolades, we strive to be in the room, we
strive for the assignments and these moments in the light.
But A, your health is everything. B. When you take ill,
(14:17):
it's really your family who are there for you if
they are right. And I realized that I was a
person who was there for my mum. And six years on,
I realized that CNN, all of this stuff that I've
done means nothing. I want to have a kid like.
It really grounded me and helped me understand what is important.
And I realized that my greatest regret in life. You know,
(14:38):
if I came to the end of my life, and
I was asked, what did I regret? It would have
been not having become a mother because I was chasing
glory or you know.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
And that's an issue a lot of very accomplished and
successful women have, is that you kind of keep on
putting it off. Now, the conversation about freezing eggs is
such a way more something I never even thought about
when I was younger. Okay, so then you decided to.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
So here's the thing. So I got to forty six,
and then I started dating an actor and you had
to curse on the show. Yes, okay, he was so shitty.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Right, but he still was like I was like.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
But you know, and I was like forty six, forty
seven and I was like, okay, so let's see where
this is going. Could he be? I mean, he was
never going to be the one. I mean he was
again good guy but way too broken. But I was like,
in this really tortuous relationship which triggered all of my
like abandonment issues and just like it was just a lot,
(15:36):
and the relationship ended and I'll never forget. Like he
was like we was supposed to hang out and then
I lost min He's like I can't and I was
like boiling my eyes out and I was just like,
this is shit. And I remember I was in New
York at the time. It's like I'm going back to LA,
packed my bags, got to LA, and I thought, I
can't do this. Not only can I not do this relationship,
I can't wait for another shitty guy to like waste
(16:00):
more of my time. I'm just gonna have a kid.
I'm just like it was literally and I actually call
him my buddha. I call this guy my budder because
it was my path to enlighten me, Like I'm not mad.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
At serve the purpose.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
He served the purpose of you realizing what it is
that you wanted to do and to ass her because
you could have said, well, because a lot of times
I'm gonna do this too. You're like, I got to
hurry up and have a kid. Whoever i'm with, I'm
just gonna totally yeah. And then now I have to
deal with this person totally right.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
And then I did see him while I was pregnant
and I said to him, I was like, he came
around and I was like, thank you so much for
being so shitty, because you know, you led me to
this place. And he was like, can I be godparent?
I was like, fuck, no, you gotta be God god parism,
Oh you can't be god parents. So Menn like literally, so,
(16:49):
but now I have a twenty six month old beautiful girl.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I'm so cute. She has your whole face.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Thank you. I used a donor. I went through the site.
I looked them up. Now so amazing. You can hear
their voices, they give them questions, they do all the screening,
all the testing. It's like it's a thing. It's not like,
oh those shoes sort of loo.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Can hear their voyage?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, you can hear their voice.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Do you get to keep that?
Speaker 3 (17:11):
So? Yeah? And you get baby pictures? And and for me,
the donor that I chose, I was struck by his
acknowledgments of the importance and the power of Africa and
how it's like at the center of civilization and how
more people should go And I just found that really
that is amazing, really touching that he had that do they.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Have the aption of if they went to ever meet? Okay?
Did he want to?
Speaker 3 (17:35):
No?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
And I chose him because of that, Like this macket,
all right, that's what that I can deal with. You so,
but you know, I also am aware of the fact
that where we are with genetics and things, you know,
ten years from now, she will if she wants to,
probably be able to find him if she wants to,
right right, just by virtue of the way science.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Because he do that.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
My cousin's cousin.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
People find out who their parents aren't to I know,
say that happen like my whole life.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
This was my dad and.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
It's my uncle. So I'm grateful. People often ask me,
They're like, do you do you miss not having a
man as part of the experience, but you can't miss
what you never had. And I have a lot. I
have a really great village around me that were around
me as I was going through the pregnancy, and I
(18:31):
you know, I had my baby, and my daughter has
a lot of like I have a brother. I have
lots of great men in my life who provide that
male figure.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Did you date while you were pregnant?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
I'm just asking because some people would feel, like I've
seen it in movies that yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
And they feel vulnerable and they want you know when
I get it. I get it. No, No, no, I didn't.
And even now I think a lot about people ask me.
They're like, will you remarry? Like, how do you feel
about dating? I'm totally open to it, but I always
say he has to be worthy of us, and he
has to be a person of great moral character, someone
(19:09):
who's stable and settled, preferably someone who's been married before
so they've done this before. But yeah, and someone who's
just not out looking to run streets.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Okay, so maybe not somebody younger.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Funnily enough, all the men I end up like dating.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Ten to be younger than you look very young.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I mean I'm forty nine, which is great, so thank you.
So most of the time it meant ask slightly. Even
my ex husband was slightly younger than me. But it's
I think they just have to pass or cross certain
thresholds of life, have been through certain trials at which
point it's not the age per se, it's the life experience,
which if they've done those things.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, Because I think people in different, even in different
cities here in the US, they're different when it comes
to maturity.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yes, you tell me about that. What are you thinking?
Like between let's say New York, New yor New York Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
I feel like in New York people get married later
than they do, and say the Midwest, I feel like
family starting earlier is more of a thing. Yes, like
people set it down earlier. And I also feel like
that about like, you know, further South. Great, but I
feel like New York might be the last place and
maybe La too, like people wait later.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Yeah, I mean I would absolutely agree with that. I
think there's definitely a sense. I think maybe maybe it's
just there's so much more to do, there's so much
more life to be experienced. Yeah, I lived in Atlanta
for ten years. No shade to the folks in Atlanta,
but it's like, what else am I going to do
if I don't get married round here? Right? So it's
just and I got married in Atlanta, So I'm speaking
from experience. That's you know, and so but in New York.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
But and even for you making this decision right with IVF,
I know there's a lot of judgment that comes to that,
especially age wise, because people would be like, how dare
she you have a Yeah, baby, that's so selfish when
you're this, I've seen all of it online and so
not about you, but just in I probably say that
when somebody's like, I'm pregnant this is something we should
(21:04):
celebrate because, to be honest, you know, I was talking
to my girl laid them who's a doula. We had
this whole conversation about it, and yes, MAMAA love her.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
And she was just.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Saying how back in the day, people were dying a
lot earlier diseases. They weren't having the modern technology, the
science that we have now. So yes, it was a
lot riskier. But nowadays, if you take care of yourself,
and there's so many things that you can do, you
can be forty seven years old and.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Have a baby and live, you know, a long healthy
life and you know, God willing and be there for
your child till they reach you know, a level of
like adulthood, right, And so I don't think I you know, listen,
my mother had me young, and now my mother's incapacitated, right,
So who knows how the dice is gonna roll? Right,
(21:53):
So there's someone who had a baby young and now
she's not here. Right.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
You can't predict what's gonna happen and if it's.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Going to happen, and so you can't live in that
space of fear. I think all you can do is
make sure that the time you have with your child,
you are very present and you pour into them, and
you you you prioritize them, and you will be you
will be doing your part to create an amazing human being, right,
a good a person who does good in this world,
who brings light into this world. And the rest it's
(22:21):
beyond your control.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Now, your other baby is a ray of media. So
I want to make sure we discuss that you change.
So as far as creating something new and evolving what
that is as a media conglomorate, what made you say
is time to change it in because I know there
was like some drama with the previous CEO saw Quest
Love even when he had posted there were some issues there.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah, there was some. There was there was some there
was some darkness there in terms of chapters of past chapters.
Before I joined the company, and so it was previously
known as Okay Media, which is really a riff on
Okay Player Okay Africa, and so it was called Okay
Media and then there was this unfortunate chapter that you know,
(23:05):
brought a lot of disruption to the company, and the
person before me in this role left and so when
I joined the company, candidly, you know, I'm not one
for living my life in half measures of like just
being okay, right, and so for me, the name always
felt a little bit kind of felt a little a
(23:26):
little just mediocre, like the brands themselves mean something, you know,
okay player, okay Africa, like they meant something, but okay media.
In and of itself, I always thought there could be
a more dynamic name, there could be something that means more,
and so, in light of everything that had gone on,
I really just did not want to take that baggage
(23:48):
on myself, and so I came across the name A Rare,
which means sunshine and light, which to me was a
beautiful way of turning the page on the darkness that
had come before that dark chat perfect and I thought,
I also felt that it's also part of the mission,
right to bring our stories into the light. And so
(24:08):
that's why I settled on that name. And you again,
people always like, why did you change it? We needed
a new beginning.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
You know what. I love.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I saw an interview where you said you were wanted
to focus on meaningful work versus controversial and I think
that's a big significant difference because sometimes people think in
order for it to hit. It's got to be controversy
because controversy sells.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
And we see these you know.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
These headlines that are just shocking that will make people
be like, it's clickbaity, and that's what gets people going.
But for you, it's more about being meaningful. It doesn't
have to be controversial.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah, it's more about being meaningful, being impactful, right, I
would say, you know, what we want to entertain, we
want to inform an uplift as well, and so it's
really important that the work we do kind of broadens
people to rise and provides a different perspective, deepens their
knowledge and the in You can go other places if
you want clickbait stuff and listen, I'll click on it myself.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
But that doesn't mean I want to grow through social media.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
I mean I want to be the producer of it.
And you know, again, people can chase numbers, and I
get it, media companies. You want audience, you want reach,
you want impressions. That's all important. But I would ask
whether I would question the durability or I'd question the
(25:27):
loyalty of those audiences and the sustainability of those things.
What we're trying to do is build I mean we're
twenty six years old. We're building something that endures because
it's meaningful, because it's high quality, because we are doing
it to serve a higher purpose.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
What do you think about now?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Even just talking about journalistic integrity and things that are happening,
a lot of people are also covering this ditty trial,
and I'm seeing so many things online and a.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Lot of jokes too, and really troubling, and.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
A lot of of incorrect reporting or people that maybe
aren't I could say, yeah, they're not necessarily qualified to
be able to explain what's really happening, because it also
gets very distracting, and people also will be reading things
that are just simply incorrect, so responsibly reporting on that
because everybody now is like online like girl in court today,
(26:23):
let me tell you, you know. And it's starting to
feel a little bit like people are also thinking, well,
what did he do wrong? He just was having freequfs.
He just likes to have sex. But they're not understanding
how this is all unfolding and working. Like even in
the first couple of days, I saw people just acting like, ah,
this is a why she's getting off Scott free.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
But it's so early to be able to tell.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah, I mean, I just think that the Diddy trial
is so I find it so disheartening in terms of
the reactions that have been online to Cassie's testimony and
how people have minimized this woman's trauma. And you know,
in some way, it's almost like in some places lionized.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
You know, like she got thirty.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
But about you know, and it's you have all these
people now in the space where the bar to entry
for media and having your own platform has been lowered
through social media, everyone can click their camera and turn
it on themselves and they can speak. You know, while
we love the democratization of access, it it comes with
(27:30):
responsibility and the cost when now you have people who
are ill informed, ill prepared to deal with something as
complex and tragic as this, just spouting right and spouting
wrong information, helping form really really wrong headed notions about this,
not legally trained, not in any way even mindful of
(27:53):
the fact that some of the things are saying are
triggering to other survivors out there, like it's just the
whole thing. It's just to me, it's actually it's just
really disturbing to me. As you can tell this is
something that you know, I'm not saying you can't have
an opinion, but what people aren't doing is putting that caveat.
(28:14):
I'm not a lawyer, just my opinion, right and kind
of like and knowing how far to go right?
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Right?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
So do you have people like, as you say, saying, oh,
he's going to get off. They haven't proved that. It's
you know, ricompos rockets like what what do you know?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Right? And it's still nowhere near It's nowhere done. Yeah,
nowhere near.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
It's nowhere near done.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
People were mad that kid Cutty took the stance, I know, but.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
What does that say about? What does that say about
society that people mad that Kid Cutty spoke out and
people are mad that he's been that they're trying to
hold this man accountable? Why?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Right? Right?
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Why? What does that say about how they value women
or how they value our places and our safety and
our voices.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
You know, it's interesting to see this happenings parallel with
you know, Meganistallion and people are attacking her at the
same time.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yeah, it is, it is, it is, you know, But
also it was just comes back to this thing, you know,
in terms of the value of black women's lives and
our safety, you know, and our bodily integrity, and how
somehow that's a toss up, like, you know, how much
do we care about them? Like how much do we
want to protect them versus you know, particularly if a
man's position is on the line or certainly being challenged.
(29:30):
And I just find it like and I don't know
how we are going to correct that. I don't know
how we're going to correct that to have black men
understand that they should want us to be safe and
they should want to see the men who harm has
held accountable. You know, I don't know how we make
that the norm versus it always being about let's protect
(29:52):
powerful black men, right right, And I don't know what
that is about. I don't know why it is why
they are considered more important and that they feel that
they should be able to get away with bad behavior.
I mean the R. Kelly thing as well, right.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
And people don't understand why women are so find it
difficult to even to.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Speak up when this is the reaction. When they're going
to able to.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Do speak, People have jokes.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
People are attacking you, People are saying it's your part.
People are saying you wanted it. People are saying, well,
why didn't you say something the moment that it happened, And.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
There's a lot of reasons.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
There's a lot of reasons because there is the fear
of not being believed. There's the fact that you've in
many cases been groomed and psychologically broken to not even
realize extent of the abuse you're enjuring, to somehow even
take on the blame that maybe in some cases of violence,
that somehow you ask for it and you're deserving of it.
To feel that there's you know, the shame if it
(30:47):
got out. There's so many complex reasons, and I just
wish those would be acknowledged. And then again, even when
first it goes and there's a range it's chi lying,
then it's oh she's telling the truth, but she deserves it,
or oh she's telling the truth, you don't deserve it, but
it ain't that bad.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
She got her money.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
She got her money.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Because I think the other misconception is people think that
if you're doing a civil suit for money, that means
that's all you want. And that's the truth is that
certain cases like rape, it's very hard to prove. So
a lot of times you have to because you can't
prove it beyond a reasonable That doesn't mean yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
You have to go, you have to go to the
civil right. And I will say this, and I said
I've said this before, my level of admiration for Cassie,
my level of deep appreciation for what she did, because
you we all have to acknowledge that what she did
wasn't just even about her. It was about every other
(31:48):
survivor and helping them understand that you don't have to
live in shame. Your life isn't over. You can start
again and you can rebuild. And that was the most
powerful example of that. And I am in deep, deep
awe of that woman and the strength it took at
her stage of pregnancy to do that and to look
(32:11):
him in the eye and say, this is what you
did to me. Now, it's a whole other case that
they have to prove, but the fact that she got
to say her part, right, I I you know, I
think she should be a Woman of the Year. I
really do.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
I just I think, Okay, I mean, that was a
lot of things to have to get up there in
front of the world and say and be honest about.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
In front of your parents, in front of your husband,
you know, even if they knew, even but to have
to say it publicly, knowing that the people who are
going to be judging her and looking at her. But
you know, I think what her husband said was again
also incredibly beautiful and moving. He did not heal her,
She healed herself.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
And So for you thinking about now, like you said,
bringing that darkness that was with the previous CEO, and
how your style of leadership is and how you are
restructuring things at ARRAYA aka Okay Player and Okay Africa,
what can we look forward to?
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Oh gosh, just so much. I mean we before these,
you know, in the last couple of years, before I joined,
these were straightforward, like just digital outlets, digital publications, websites.
Basically you could access us by going to our dot
coms or you could just go through to our socials.
But in the four years that I've been in the
CEO chair, the focus really has been on turning it
(33:29):
into a multimedia company. And so aside from the dot
coms and the socials we now have we have our
own studios, Okay Player studios where we have digital originals
like digging, so any you know artists out there who
want to come in and then be part of the
show where you dig through creative records and talk about
what they mean to you. You get to pick your selection.
(33:50):
We have Okay, that's funny, our own comedy shows, so
we have digital originals, a whole slate of this, and
I started a podcast division with Almanac of Rap hosted
by Donald Well being our very first one.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
That just want a web be congratulations. That's a big deal,
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Thank you. And now we have a whole new state
of shows that are dropping in May, including Afrobeats Intelligence
that we talked about to be clear, hosted by Door
Montgomery with Freddie b TV.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
I saw them at the event, which is amazing.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
They are such a talented duo, sort of giving you
that that take on the news and what's happening through
their own lens, sharp that they're funny and they're smart,
they're wicked smart. And then another show called Noahala, which
is sort of like a comedy skits show like Young Diasporan,
sort of like daily show, like just that kind of
witty take on what's happening. And then we also have
(34:43):
a show coming out much later in the year. We've
shown COOTI for the Kuti's son that is going to
take on more in Africa view and a kind of
some might say a controversial view of some of the
narratives around Africa.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Okay, I'm looking forward to all of this, and I
I know when I was there, they're like, so, if
you know anybody that you know has a.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Who wants to do a new show, who's got some
show ideas, somebody might want to partner, Like, we have
full production services, we have a great team. Obviously, we
have vibrant socials with big with big audience, big reach,
so we're looking to partner.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
I love that and it's interesting. I was having this
conversation with people who are also starting podcasts or thinking
about it, and so some people feel like, well, it's
oversaturated right now, and I don't feel like there's space.
But I feel like things always break through when they're
really great and they're consistent.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yes, I think I think that's the key. Consistency and
also patience. Yeah, overnight success.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
People be thinking like, oh man, this only guy x
amount of these it is not working.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
But it takes a while.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
It takes one. When you look at the top ten
of podcasts currently, when you look at you know, whether
it's Omta Experts or whatever it is, they've been around
for a minute. None of those shows just like popped
up and just you know, storm to the top of
the charts. So it takes time. And also it takes
time for you to define, to like refine your craft
and your voice and really figure out what the show's
(36:11):
hook is. And sometimes that's that iterative process takes time.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
But this is great.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
How do you see this growing in the future too,
because I know you already have plans. I mean you've
been there, you've been restructuring. It's kind of like a
full rebrand. And also, like we said, evolution is important too,
so taking it from what it was. It's been around,
as we know, for twenty six years, which is quite
some time. But in order to continue to grow, it's
(36:39):
got to evolve.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
It's got to evolve. It's got to evolve, and you know,
we want to make sure that we have a slate
of programming. I always say that now they're not a
great analogy today because share price continues to draw, but
like I would say that we're a little bit like Nike,
Like we are that brand where whether you're listening to
our podcast you're buying our merch you're getting our newsletter,
you're checking out on so there's something for you here.
(37:02):
And my mission is basically to make us a daily
habit for folks, a household name, so that at some
point in the day you are engaging with our content.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
That newsletter helps. You know that newsletter. I get the newsletter.
It's quest left still involved.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
You know. You know that man is one you know
for Oscars, and he's busy on the road producing multile films,
so he's not involved in the day to day, but
we like to think of him more like as a
kind of like our spiritual godfather. Right at the stage,
all right.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Love it well, I said, thank you so much for
coming through and when things are happening, whatever you need
for us to amplify. I know we're going to be
working with some of your podcasts two to come on
as on my podcast lip Service. We're going to have
them on there too, because I do want to make
sure that I'm working to us to elevate what's going on.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
There and what you have, because I think you're amazing saying.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
I think you're amazing too, And this has been such
a tread and super excited to see all the things
you're doing, and also just to congruct you for the
moves you've made to step into your own life.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
You want a Gracy I just got back from the
Gracies way. I just want to Gracie as well, so
we're proud of that. But the work that you've done,
you know, listen the Gracy Awards. I love that is
an amazing space to be in to see all these
other women who are empowering each other and so just
things like that I think are so important. But how
can people reach you if they're like or your team,
(38:25):
if they want to reach out?
Speaker 1 (38:25):
What's the best way?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
I think the West Listen, I mean slimantarium, You've a
clean slim and toar DMS, I am I am ixious
to say on ig reach out to us and you
know again we have reach out to Okay Player Online
or Okay Africa. You can directly DM the teams we're
(38:47):
constantly checking. But seriously, if you we're looking to grow
this family and we want more diverse voices, all ages,
all generations, as many stories as we can tell because
we're building something special.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
All right, we might have something for you. Okay, perfect
all right when it's way up, way up,
Way Up With Angela Yee News
Host
Angela Yee
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