Muhammad Abdul‑Hadi Talks His Journey From House Arrest to CEO, Down North Pizza, Collabs + More
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
What's up his way up at Angela Yee. And this
is a very special Wealth Wednesday for us today. I
got Stacy Tisdale here.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Happy Wealth Wednesdays, everybody.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
We are so excited today to talk about how someone
is transforming lives one slice at a time. I had
to say this life, slice of Life. We're really super
excited to have Mohammad Abdulhadi, who is the founder and
owner of Down North Pizza, which is an incredible mission
driven movement and also the author of We the Pizza,
(00:35):
which when we're done talking about all of you guys
are going to run to Amazon out West Cafe, He's
going to talk about in a new coffee shop. You're
a serial or right, and prior to all of that,
you built a career in real estate and developing. But
Down North Pizza is amazing. First of all, tell everyone
(00:56):
what it is so.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Down North Pizza is a mission based, for profit restaurant
in the heart of Strawberry Mansion, which is a very
decorated neighborhood in Philadelphia. And what we do is that
we exclusively hire formally incarcerated individuals and provide them with
resources so that they can navigate society post incarceration, and
it's very important because we are in the area which
(01:20):
is high on recidivism rate. Recidivism meaning people are being
recycled in and out of the system. So for me,
it was very important to go into where the problem
is so prevalent and try to help from within. So
that's exactly what we did with Down North Pizza, and
it was strategically placed you in this area so we
can from within inspire as well, because Strawberry Mansion is
(01:42):
the area that, for the most part, when you hear
about it, it's all negativity. It's all you know, nefarious
thing's going on. So for us, we wanted to change
the narrative and bring some positivity into Strawberry Mansion, and
that's what we've been doing for the past five years.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
It's so personal for you. You started it during lockdown,
which is amazing in and of itself, and you were
actually under house arrests. Yes, so tell us how that happened.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Yeah, I started while everybody was on lockdown, and I
was actually on lockdown too, so it was crazy when
I think back on it, and I was going through
my own legal troubles and before the shop opened, that's
when I actually got my sentence handed down to me,
maybe like three or four months prior to the shop opening,
and I thought at the time that I was going
(02:28):
to actually have to go inside for a year.
Speaker 6 (02:31):
And I was blessed.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Enough for my lawyer and my team to be able
to get me a year on house arrest. So when
I got the sentence and I knew that I was
going to be on house arrest for a year, I
had to think, like, how am I going to do this.
I'm in the middle of trying to open up a
restaurant and my time is limited. I had literally six
hours a day to be out the house. But for
me very I had an opportunity to make an excuse
(02:54):
to not push forward, but that's not what I wanted
to do, and I had a valid excuse, but I
chose to turn into something positive and push forward because
I noticed how my life was impacted by being a
felon now and really the people that I'm doing it for,
you know. And I had resources, so I'm thinking about
(03:14):
the people that don't have the resources when they land
in these situations. So that was my motivation to keep
it pushing and make sure that I keep it going.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
When you even think about your conviction, because I read
about it and what happened. People would hear that, right,
you had no record of anything before that, something happened
to you, Like you've said, you were involved with the
wrong people. Sometimes we're not aware we're doing something that
we could get in trouble for. But people just hear
conviction and they don't care what it is. You're automatically like, oh,
I don't know if we want to you know, fell
(03:44):
in working here.
Speaker 6 (03:44):
Or yeah, all of that.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
It's hard to even get a place to live, and
you can have all the money in the world and
they look at you as a felon and then they're like, well,
we don't want them.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
Living in this particular complex or this building.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
So even myself, I've seen how my life just changed
once the conviction got handed down, and it was like
all the things that we took for granted, even something
simple as.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
Pre check right PreCheck.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
So I was like, they let you know very early
on that these things have been suspended. So it was
like me just noticing, like, oh, my life will be
very v You can't even.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Get a real estate license at first, like you have
to go through a whole process. You'll never get global entry.
Forget you can't even get global entry. And there's so
many things because even like getting a real estate license
is you can take the test, you can pass, you
can have an agency of brokers that's like okay, we'll
have you on as an agent, but you can't automatically
get that done.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
You have to go through a whole process, you know,
to make it happen. And sometimes it's also something that
people are ashamed to even have to talk about.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Yes, it's very it's a very sensitive subject matter because
they're thinking about what's going to happen. Happen after they
people notice what their situation was. So it's like sometimes
people will lie on.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
Their applications because they're housing.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
You know, out of survival. It's like, I need this
job at least to get me a couple of dollars
and maybe when they find out that I'm a felon
and they eventually fire me, then not at.
Speaker 6 (05:06):
Least have a couple of checks get me through the
next couple months.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Oh, you'll be thinking, well, at least they know me
now and I'm in here, so maybe they'll know that.
But that's why I love what it is that you're
doing right, because this is also what I find is
that people that have uh, these convictions and these felonies
on their record, they want to be able to work,
They want to be able to be productive members of society.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
They just need a chance.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
You hire, just for everybody to be clear, you hire formally, incurious.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
As all we do, all right, So everybody in that
shop has been you know, justice impacted.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
What do you think other businesses, society as a whole
are overlooking about this population?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
I mean a wealth of talent, a wealth of dedicated,
you know, skilled individuals that want to prove you wrong.
And I think when we look at it from that
lens of somebody like just waiting for some a person
to give them a chance to say yes, and then
they're going to show you what they can do behind
the yes, versus people just no, no, no, you can't
do this, or not even knowing them and then looking
at them just because they have a record and saying that, oh,
(06:06):
because you have a record, you cannot do this, and
don't even know from a canapign So it's like very
important for the people to just give them a chance
to show you what they can do do.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
You think you were treated fairly by the justice system.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
No, not at all, and for multitude reasons. And you know,
for me, looking back at when I was going through
what I was going through, I was just looked at
as a feeling. It wasn't looked at the people lives
that I changed and saved when I was you know,
in that industry, right the countless the hundreds of people
that I still in contact with that you know I've
(06:39):
affected their life in a positive way.
Speaker 6 (06:41):
None of that was discussed.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
It was just, now, this is your situation, this is you,
and this is what you've done, and that's what you
know continues to follow me to this day. But for me,
I don't look at it from that negative perspective. I
just try to stay focused on what we're doing is
try to stay grounded in what this movement that we're
pushing and then continue to push forward.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
How do you do that? Sorry, Like, how do you
find the resilience and the financial, not financial, the psychological
strength to do that?
Speaker 4 (07:09):
I mean, if we don't do it, then who's going
to do it? I think, you know, there's nobody that's
going to attempt to try to save us from you know,
the things that you know have been following us, you know,
since somebody has gotten convicted. Once you get convicted, it's
essentially like a life sentence, right, because whatever you've done
follows you for the rest of your life. A lot
(07:29):
of people who've been justice impacted when they are starting
businesses and want to and aspire to be entrepreneurs, it's
out of survival. A lot of times people don't have options.
If you know that you're unable to get a job
and that you have walked into countless interviews and somebody
has just excluded you just because that simple fact, then
it's like, what can I do. I don't want to
(07:50):
go back to what I was doing before, which is
the common misconception that people think that people just want
to go back to the things that got him in jail.
Speaker 6 (07:58):
That'd be the last option, right. A lot of people
want to change.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
When you give people opportunities and people have certain boxes checked,
which is, you know, having somewhere to live and having employment,
you reduced forcidivism by a lot. So those two basic
are the two basic drivers other citivism. So if we
can you know, cover those, then people can at least
get a start to try.
Speaker 6 (08:19):
To do something.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I also wanted to ask you because I know your
family also was definitely for the movement as well and
did a lot of positive things in the neighborhood you
know too. So was this something you feel like was
ingrained in you when you think about even aside from
your personal situation, but just wanting to make sure that you.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Were part of this solution.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Was it something that even when you were young, you
knew somehow, some way this was going to be your path.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Yes, my father was very heavily involved in community, and
you know, he was on a movement. I have, you know,
family members that were part of the Black Panther Party
Philadelphia chapters. So I feel like this definitely was something
in me. And also have a family of entrepreneurs. You know,
my older brother his name is Kenya, and he started
a scheme which is a holding line that you know,
(09:05):
one of the top clue line that ever come out
of Philadelphia. Yeah, that's a bit back in two thousands.
So I was able to see, you know, very early
on that entrepreneurship was possible because I had people around
my life that showed me and to this day he's
still an entrepreneur and still pushing that movement. So for me,
I was blessed to be around individuals who I can,
you know, be exposed.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
To and see that something is actually possible.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
So let's talk about Down North Pizza for a minute.
Because when you first opened, there was so much press
around it, so much going on that you guys were
like not even prepared for what was going to happen
that first day.
Speaker 6 (09:41):
No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
When I think back and we laugh about this now,
because Miji opened a restaurant with no restaurant experience.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
You know, none, because even with restaurant experience, it's hard
to open a restaurant.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Yes, And I remember when I was telling people about
Down North in my idea and it's like, dude, what
are you talking about.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
You don't make pizza.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
You going in like probably one of the worst neighborhoods,
which is in Philadelphia, and you don't have any experience.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
And black people with pizza shops. Yeah, I mean there's
a few, but that's.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
Not normally say yeah. So it's like you sure about this?
Speaker 4 (10:17):
And I think that was one of the driving reasons
why I wanted to do it, because I'm very competitive,
so I wanted to prove people wrong. And I was like,
you know, and the fact that I was hiring felons,
They're like, this sounds like a recipe for a disaster,
and I was like, actually, I think about it the
other ways. I feel like this is a recipe for
success because for me, when I approach like business, it's like,
(10:39):
where's the void in the marketplace for something? So that's
my guide in light. So it's like, if we can
find out things that doesn't exist and push the envelope
and for me to be creative, the creative mind that
I am, that's where I am.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
I'm at the intersection. So for me, that's what I'm
looking for.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
So I saw this as a very unique opportunity to
as we say, bank some poles and save some lives.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Lank and Pime, I love that that you just stay
you listen to your voice.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
Yeah noise, Yeah, it's always going to be noise.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
And my biggest thing is focused, Like you have to
stay focused because there's always going to be noise around you.
Speaker 6 (11:14):
And if you can stay focused to stay of course
and you know, you can do something.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
You know, as an entrepreneur, I have to ask you,
like you said you had no experience in the restaurant business.
So that means you have to figure out, like all
of the permits, what is the things that I need?
You got to have all kinds of like, hey, we
got to have our food handlers license. We got to
make sure somebody's on site to handle this. You got
to worry about inspections, all of those things. Did you
have to Did you sit down and have like a plan.
(11:38):
Some people will tell you, all right, I put together
a business plan. I did X, Y and Z, Like
how did you even say okay, we're ready for opening day?
What was that process?
Speaker 4 (11:47):
So now I started account as business before, so I
feel like business at the core there is the same.
It's just different systems. Systems the world make or break businesses.
So I had to learn the restaurant systems. And you know,
I understand market and I understand stand all the back
end stuff. And that's why leading up to down North
opening it took about six months. People don't know about
(12:07):
how you know long it actually took for it to
actually open up and actually sell pizza. That in itself
was the whole process. You remember, I'm telling you I'm
going through my own legal troubles during the time, I'm
still building out the space that down No Pizza resides in.
So for me, it was a lot leading up to that,
and you know, hiring the right people and finding the
(12:27):
right talent because I needed to learn from them.
Speaker 6 (12:32):
One of my biggest features being the entrepreneurs like humility.
You have to be humble.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
You have to know what you know, and you have
to know what you don't know, right And I was
comfortable with what.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
I didn't know nothing about running the restaurant. The first
time being in the back of a restaurant was when
I built Down North. I'm in the back of the house.
Speaker 6 (12:48):
And it's like, oh, this is a restaurant. This is
what it feels like. And I had to learn. I
learned from the chefs.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
You know that we work together, you know Chef Mike,
you know, the executive chef at Down North, Like we
worked hand in hand to you know, for him to
allow me to you know, grow into it what it
is right now in the restaurant space.
Speaker 6 (13:06):
You know, I was working the line essentially, we talked.
We laugh about it now.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
But when I first we first opened up, I was
at the job of this fries and wings like just
put it.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
And I'm like, okay, let's do it.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
And it's like it's a whole kitchen culture that I
wasn't privy to prior. So it's like people moving around,
you know, all the stuff that we watch on the
Bear Bear and it's like all that language. It was
foreign to me, so all that noise, you know, and
all that yes. So it was like I'm.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
Sitting there and I'm learning how to navigate within the
kitchen space. It was fun.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
I made some mistakes, you know, made a lot of mistakes,
but they were cool because I was able to learn
and grow from them. And you know, we're still together today.
You know, Mike is this chef at the new restaurant.
So we were able to grow over time. And that
was very important because, like I said, had I not
had that humility, and I wouldn't be able to say
I can learn from that, you know works.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
There was so much more to you. There is so
much more to you. You were in real estate developing
and property management before that, and you actually own the
building that Down North is in.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Yes, prior to down North, I had a real estate
development company in I always sort of value in individuals
who've been formally incarcerated, and my whole development team was
comprised of them.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Pre incarceration was because your family, Yeah, yeah, justice impacted
and who knew that whatever happened to you.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Yes, And my thing was, I had a whole staff,
a whole you know, electricians, you know, tradesmen that were
formingly incarcerated or impacted by you know, some type of
addiction that worked and actually built that building as well.
So the full circle moment was building was actually built
by hands of individuals who've been justice impacted. So for me,
it was like, like I said, one of those full
(14:53):
circle moments, and then seeing the building, the shell, you
know initially that was there, and then from the shell
to the first slice of pizza, it was like a
surreal feeling to see a customer walk out the door
with the pizza. Because, like I said, opening the business
is not easy, opening business during the pandemic.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
It's definitely not easy.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
And what we.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Were trying to do, and I attributed a lot of
that to timing as well. So you know, sometimes you
just get caught at the right time with a business
concept and it can take off from there.
Speaker 6 (15:23):
I think timing is very important.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
And dealing with what you dealt with also put another
fire behind you to say this has to happen.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
Yes, it has to happen.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
And you had the InKo monitor and people didn't even
know while you were working that you were in the
pizza shop with an ankle monitor on.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
No nobody knew.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
I think a lot of people found out through the
book because I didn't.
Speaker 6 (15:43):
I wanted to.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
I'm all, I'm a big person when it comes to accountability,
and I wanted to be held accountable for what my
role was within that. So don't look at my ankle
monitor and say, oh, I'm gonna let you off the hook.
Let me know what I have to do, and even
if it's not myself, I can utilize resources around me
to you know, take care of what I'm responsible for.
So and I also did not want this to be
(16:06):
a big media thing where they focused on myself and
it never was about.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Me being a James Beard Award winner. As much as
you can step back, I love your business and kind
of life.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Mantra.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Competition is at the bottom and collaboration is at the top.
Speaker 6 (16:23):
Yep, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I mean we always open collaborations with pizza shops, other cafes,
other restaurants, because we don't look at it as a
competitive thing. We you know, understand that they have a
customer base. We have a customer base, and you know,
you also can share a customer base. And we've done
collaborations with other pizza spots. One of our favorites, you know,
Scars in New York. We do a lot of collaborations
(16:46):
with them. And sometimes people can understand, like how you
collaborating with the pizza shop. It's like it's easy. You know,
you both do something different, right, every business, even whether
it's in the same business, you do something different. So
how can we come together and formulate something based off
of what you do, based off of what I do?
And I'm always open for that.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
I'm going to step out of this conversation for a minute, everybody,
because I'm a non coffee drinker and I have someone
who has started as shame by the way I want to.
I still push friends of mine who have coffee and
push their coffee and.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
I don't even know if it's good coffee.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Everything she does is good. Come on, because she was
I saw how hard she worked in learning and studying coffee.
She went to Columbia. Yes, to study and learn about coffee.
You're opening a new cafe that's coffee, And now I'm
just gonna not say anything for a while.
Speaker 6 (17:37):
No.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I opened my coffee shop during the pandemic as well,
coffee up those people. So that was definitely a very
challenging time build out wise, as far as the materials
and getting people to come and get things done and
getting even permits and stuff like that that we needed
to make happen. It was probably like three times more
expensive than it would have been to do it right now,
just as far as that's but definitely want to hear
(17:59):
about the coffee and talk to me about it.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
So I thought that the concept about West in twenty
twenty one when I'm West and it's a play on words,
just like down with pizza. It's like you gotta be
facility to understand.
Speaker 5 (18:16):
Oh, okay, you're from West Philadelphia.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
Yes, West Philadelphia actually a block away from.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
Where the Morning raised.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Sorry, And I thought of the concept of like, you know,
I want to do coffee.
Speaker 6 (18:30):
I always love coffee.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
I was always on the consumer side, but I actually
wanted to open up a cafe and I'm like, I
want to do it. I want to continue the mission.
I know that we had to open up a spot
so we can provide more opportunities for individuals who've been
justice impacted. So I thought about it back then and
in the midst of it. I'm the type of person
that if I'm going to get into something new, I.
Speaker 6 (18:48):
Need to learn as much area.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
I love that, no need to learn to be able to,
you know, open up this business, because I feel like
when you're opening something, there shouldn't be You never should
be put in a position where it's somebody can tell
you something about your business that you can't confirm it deny,
and if you don't know something about it, then you
at the mercy of somebody telling you you need this
or this doesn't work because you.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
Had no knowledge about it.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
So for me, I wanted to like study coffee like
in every you know form that it was. So had
an opportunity to study coffee and I think Staten Island
or Columbia, those are my two options.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Which one did you pick?
Speaker 6 (19:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (19:29):
So I took up the opportunity. And there's a univer
it's university nights more so university diversity, but Coffee Academy
in Bogota, Columbia, and they literally teach you everything about coffee.
Speaker 6 (19:45):
That was the first time I actually knew coffee.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Was a fruit and I think he's a fruit. Yes,
it's a very.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
And then because you know what a lot of people
don't understand too about coffee is like light rose versus
dark roast, and which one is more caffeine?
Speaker 5 (20:00):
And why onenes a light roast? Why on it? There
is so many different things.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
It's so many different layers. I don't you know.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
We traveled, you know, eleven thousand feet above sea level
to actually see the coffee trees and where they grow,
and it was an experience.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
And even thinking about how people have to pick coffee
beans or just how people are also compensated in these
black and brown countries where coffee is grown, and why
it's important for us to be part of that whole,
you know, just bringing we talk about fair trade, but
it has to go even deeper than that.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Yes, that definitely has to go. And I was blown
away just by the experience. I spent by a total
like three months there.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
That's amazing, and really.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Getting into them with like coffee in different ways. And yeah,
because I know another thing people probably be like, well,
y'all know it's about coffee.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
Yeah, people would just assume that.
Speaker 6 (20:47):
I assume that, And it's like, no, we we stamped.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
What do you say to a non coffee drinker like Stacey?
Because because I also believe that people have this notion
that coffee is not good for you for reason and there,
and coffee does have a lot of benefits.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I think it's great.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
I just grew.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I think it's because my mother didn't drink coffee. My
father was a big coffee drinker, but I just I
just never drank it. I think I've had two cups
of coffee in my entire life.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
It's an acquired taste. I would say, if you don't
like coffee, try macha.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Okay, that's a fact matcha would give you.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
But Macha has a much more earthier taste, so or
a tea.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I can barely contain my energy. I never wanted to
ingest anything that gave me more energy.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Macha is a little different when it comes to I
think coffee like takes you on that, you know, straight up,
But macha is like micro dos and caffeine.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Nothing against it.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I just but you know, I love what you had
to say about actually going and studying what it is
that you want to do, because you know, even for
us when we started our coffee company, we started underneath
another brand and then we were able to get our
education that way and then eventually start roasting our own
beans as well and learn how to do that. And
I'm a big fan of once you decide to get
(21:59):
into to a business, just like you said, to learn
every aspect of it that you possibly can, and to
continue to learn and grow because industries are always evolving, yes,
you know as well.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
And so no, that was that's very important because you know,
like you said, industries are evolving. Coffee is being roasted
in different ways as opposed to just the traditional way
that people have been roasting. There's a lot of local roasters.
We deal with local roasters in Philly that we get
coffee from. And I think the evolution of coffee is
could be a benefit for everybody.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
What kind of coffee are you going to serve? A
new cafe?
Speaker 6 (22:32):
So right now we've been open for two weeks.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Oh this is fresh fresh, Okay.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
It took about two and a half years to you know,
build out the space, equipment, staff and everything. So week
two weeks and it's been a hack Fay experience. And
we not only sell coffee, we also sell premium breakfast sandwiches.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
So you're selling your own blends of coffee.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
Not yet, we're going with the local roaster Poem Roasting
in Philly. Definitely that you know the best, you know
roads locally.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
That you can get another rose. We always opened.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
We all love doing collapse with each other. As a
matter of fact about that, we.
Speaker 6 (23:14):
Talked about.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
You want to touch on your book before you go,
but I also just really want to give you a
shout out that you have a foundation, new pizza foundation,
tell everybody what that does.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
So when and I opened Down North Pizza maybe a
year or so later, we figured that we're doing a
lot of community based things and we also wanted to
know how can we like transform that and elevate that
because we're doing a lot of like this volunteer stuff.
And that's when the idea of the Down North Foundation
was birthed and we operated a little different than traditional foundations.
(23:47):
So with us, we actually work with community, whether it's
the justice impact community or the community within Strawberry Mansion
at Down North Pizza resides in and we talked to
them and we you know, connect with them to see
what they're need. We go out raise the money and
then we take the you know, the resources back to them.
So we build out initiatives underneath the foundation based off
(24:08):
the community's needs. That's amazing and that's what we've been
doing for the past three years. And I was telling
you about one of the programs that we got called
Protect Your Crib. As we see how gentrification is like
ravaging through our communities, like how can we help? And
a lot of people are losing their houses simply because
they're defaulting on like property taxes right like a big
(24:29):
and then in Philadelphia County you can actually your house
will be going to what's it called sheriff cele with
the sheriff or auction.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
Off, your auction off your house just because of these taxes.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Because of these taxes. So we like, well, how can
we help? And two years ago we started Protect your
Crib And I'm like, well about we just pay their taxes,
get them a fresh, clean slate. They are programs that
will give you tax credit. They just don't know about them.
So provide an informative session so that they can learn
about these programs, enroll them in the programs. Now you
have a Ziro balance, so we know that at least
(25:00):
for the next five or ten years. You know, based
on how you can budget your money, that you'll at
least be in your house for that and kind of
build off of that, because even though the neighborhoods are
being gentrified, you still should be able to enjoy the
neighborhood when it turns over.
Speaker 6 (25:13):
And a lot of people in Philly are homeowners.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Right, A lot of people from New York are moving
to Philly. I just want to say I was reading
an article about that.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
How Yeah, we wasn't too happy about being called the
sixth borough.
Speaker 6 (25:24):
I name it that. I just said, yeah, that was
with the art.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
I saw the article and I'm like, Philly, none of
the Philadelphians is.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Okay, look at the football team I inherited.
Speaker 6 (25:34):
Which one the Eagles? Okay I gave you.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Don't get me, Okay, I'm not going to turn this
on because you're not gonna call us no sense.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I also want to point out that not only are
you doing this mission based business with Down North Pizza,
but the piece is also amazing and you guys have
gotten tons of awards. No, because listen, it could be great,
good mission pieces nasty yeah, but that is not the
case here.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
No, And that was that's important that even though, like
I always tell people, you know, even though there's a
difference between a supporter and the customer, and when we
opened Down the Earth, we had tons of supporters, it
was our job to convert to supporters into customers and
you only can do that through products and services. So
we know that we had to provide a premium product
so that all the support we can get that we
were getting can translate into customers. And that's what you
(26:23):
need to suffice a business. You need return to customers,
you need customers. And we knew we had to make
a premium product and that was you know, at the forefront.
And it's like, we don't want to be known at
you know as just oh this great mission, but there
you know, when it comes.
Speaker 6 (26:37):
To these products.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
So we know we had to be on the forefront
of providing this premium product and that's what we worked
tirely to do to make sure that we're providing quality
with everything we do and people not just thinking that
they had to support because we're doing this good thing
you should want to go and spend.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
Your money because I also like it, yes and feel
good about it.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
And the other thing, because I was reading, I think
you guys did like a thousand pis or something like
that for the grand opening. But you have to give
people of grace too when they're first opening.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
Yes, yes, we got a lot of grace.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, that's important because sometimes people will give like bad
reviews and Somethime's only been open for like a week
or two and you're like, yo, give us a moment.
Speaker 6 (27:12):
Yeah, so we got a lot of grace.
Speaker 5 (27:14):
Because you have to start making pies right.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
Yes, I remember that grand opening weekend where people stood
in line for two hours just to order really, and
then probably another hour or two.
Speaker 6 (27:24):
Oh that's awesome.
Speaker 5 (27:25):
See.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
So don't ever think that community doesn't support when you
want to do something like this. There are so many
people when you get the message out there that are
willing to support. But then it's on you to make
sure that the product is something like you said, that
turns into a customer, will turn you into a customer.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
I'm going to call you the Renaissance Fair because in
addition to your foundation and all these other things, your
incredible book, We the Pizza not only tells your story,
but it's a history lesson. Yes, it preached you schooled
me about the thirteenth Amendment and what happened.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Yeah, because a lot of people don't know how we
got to this point we're talking about with the prison
system and the evolution and why is a business model
like this even necessarily in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
How do we get to the point where we needed this?
Speaker 4 (28:09):
And we take you on a journey within the book
that it started from slavery. Slavery just transitioned into the
prison system, and that's where we're at right now, and
that's where a lot of people don't know about prison.
So throughout the book, and everybody you know copy your book.
You can see that there's little footnotes throughout you know,
(28:30):
the book on the bottom of the pages that give
you timestamped you know, events that happened to get you
to the point of where we're at right now with
the carcal system.
Speaker 6 (28:40):
How is evolved into.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
This this industry that employs so many people, that so
many people rely on.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
You broke it down so clearly, how the economy really
fell apart in the South when slavery.
Speaker 6 (28:51):
Oh yeah, stopped.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
So they had to figure out how to get those
people back in the fields. Yeah, so they just made
more things illegal.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
I mean yeah, it's like convict leasing and things like
that that were prevalent, where you know, they had to
figure out how can we get people back on these
fields and work. It's like, oh, well, let's create the laws,
let's lock them up, and then when they can't beil
themselves out, we'll show up and be like, all right,
well you can come work this dead off and make
that a revolving you know, door like loitering, like one
(29:21):
of those laws where you can even be caught standing outside.
Mind you, when they released the slaves, there was just like.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Go ahead, you can't stand here.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Yeah, so it's like that became a crime. So it's
like when we create the laws, then we also can
say you know this is wrong, you can't do this,
and then we can control the systems. And the system
evolved to what we have today where you have so
many different systems entangled within the cartal state.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I saw you also wrote in here I think it
was one in three black men your age will end
up getting arrested.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Oh yeah, absolutely, and that's you know, something that's been
prevalent in America for a very long time.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Well, this is really moving.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
And I was telling you before we started this, I
was in Detroit, you know, shout out to Detroit, and
I was just randomly out and it's like, oh, you
got to get this book, you know. And I saw
I got a copy of this book while I was
in Detroit. That's how everything that you have is traveling around.
And it turns out, as I was reading it, this
(30:22):
is based on Detroit style pizza, the pizza that you
had there with the Philly twist.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yes, don't leave out that Philly twist.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Yeah, Now that you got the book, shout out to Ashtley, Yes,
thank you as as a ray no from Detroit. They
behold me down out there and for me, yeah, the
Detroit style pizzas were inspired the Philly style pizza that
we have right now.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
And we were doing research.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
I wanted to do a square pizza because there was
a lot of nostalgia around growing up and.
Speaker 6 (30:49):
Eating square pizza. So we were like, what are we
going to do?
Speaker 4 (30:52):
So we landed at oh, well, Detroit style is a
good starting point, and we saw how the Detroit style pizza.
You know, used the Wisconsin break cheese, the line goods
that like that great fence that comes around you use
those pants that that special pants that you have to
cook the Troit pizza. Detroit pizza is more like a
rectangle though, and it's way more dense than the pizza
(31:13):
that we make. And that's why I think we switched
it up. We overhydrated the dough. We made it more
of a square and it's not as dense. And we
don't use Wisconsin.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
You didn't bring any, he said.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
It's crazy as that. He said, forget New York. You know,
we're the sixth Borough and all, but we're gonna go
to Detroit.
Speaker 6 (31:32):
Crazy.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
I'm just kidding. I don't want nobody from Philly to
get mad at me. I'm just playing.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Okay, guys, but yes, and even the names of the pizza,
by the way, super cute.
Speaker 5 (31:41):
So I love that.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Yeah, So we definitely get pay hamas to a lot
of the Philadelphia artists. So all of our pizzas are
named after notable Philadelphia songs and that's like the theme
of the restaurant. So you know, you get some history too,
because we you know, even go back to the older song.
So we pay homus to Philly in a different way,
because you know, we just prod for when it comes
to Philly, be wed on that shoulders. You'll know a
(32:03):
Philadelphia anywhere, Yes you will.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
And we the pizzas on Amazon.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
We the pizzas on Amazon, Barnes and Noble anywhere you know.
You can buy books online. Also a lot of local bookstores.
You want to support local bookstores, and there are a
lot of local bookstores around the United States.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
The full name. I love it. We the pizza slinging
pies and saving lives.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
All right, well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I cannot wait to come out there and come by
the pizza shop and the cafe.
Speaker 6 (32:29):
So we're gonna talk about this coffee thing.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Yeah, I came here with you got your coffee drinkers.
I can't believe you.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
You know it's crazy. Can I just have a moment
of honesty.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I had pizza earlier today and then I was like, oh, shoot,
what if he brings pizza out?
Speaker 5 (32:42):
So I stopped eating.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
I didn't eat lunch.
Speaker 6 (32:45):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
I was like, nobody's going to bring pizza from Philly.
It'll be cold by the time it gets here.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Your heart.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
That just means a road trip and I'm excited for
that and press some collaborationally yes that we can do
in the future.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
So thank you so much for coming do for wealth.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Happy Wealth Wednesdays, everybody,
What's up his way up at Angela Yee. And this
is a very special Wealth Wednesday for us today. I
got Stacy Tisdale here.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Happy Wealth Wednesdays, everybody.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
We are so excited today to talk about how someone
is transforming lives one slice at a time. I had
to say this life, slice of Life. We're really super
excited to have Mohammad Abdulhadi, who is the founder and
owner of Down North Pizza, which is an incredible mission
driven movement and also the author of We the Pizza,
(00:35):
which when we're done talking about all of you guys
are going to run to Amazon out West Cafe, He's
going to talk about in a new coffee shop. You're
a serial or right, and prior to all of that,
you built a career in real estate and developing. But
Down North Pizza is amazing. First of all, tell everyone
(00:56):
what it is so.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Down North Pizza is a mission based, for profit restaurant
in the heart of Strawberry Mansion, which is a very
decorated neighborhood in Philadelphia. And what we do is that
we exclusively hire formally incarcerated individuals and provide them with
resources so that they can navigate society post incarceration, and
it's very important because we are in the area which
(01:20):
is high on recidivism rate. Recidivism meaning people are being
recycled in and out of the system. So for me,
it was very important to go into where the problem
is so prevalent and try to help from within. So
that's exactly what we did with Down North Pizza, and
it was strategically placed you in this area so we
can from within inspire as well, because Strawberry Mansion is
(01:42):
the area that, for the most part, when you hear
about it, it's all negativity. It's all you know, nefarious
thing's going on. So for us, we wanted to change
the narrative and bring some positivity into Strawberry Mansion, and
that's what we've been doing for the past five years.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
It's so personal for you. You started it during lockdown,
which is amazing in and of itself, and you were
actually under house arrests. Yes, so tell us how that happened.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Yeah, I started while everybody was on lockdown, and I
was actually on lockdown too, so it was crazy when
I think back on it, and I was going through
my own legal troubles and before the shop opened, that's
when I actually got my sentence handed down to me,
maybe like three or four months prior to the shop opening,
and I thought at the time that I was going
(02:28):
to actually have to go inside for a year.
Speaker 6 (02:31):
And I was blessed.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Enough for my lawyer and my team to be able
to get me a year on house arrest. So when
I got the sentence and I knew that I was
going to be on house arrest for a year, I
had to think, like, how am I going to do this.
I'm in the middle of trying to open up a
restaurant and my time is limited. I had literally six
hours a day to be out the house. But for
me very I had an opportunity to make an excuse
(02:54):
to not push forward, but that's not what I wanted
to do, and I had a valid excuse, but I
chose to turn into something positive and push forward because
I noticed how my life was impacted by being a
felon now and really the people that I'm doing it for,
you know. And I had resources, so I'm thinking about
(03:14):
the people that don't have the resources when they land
in these situations. So that was my motivation to keep
it pushing and make sure that I keep it going.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
When you even think about your conviction, because I read
about it and what happened. People would hear that, right,
you had no record of anything before that, something happened
to you, Like you've said, you were involved with the
wrong people. Sometimes we're not aware we're doing something that
we could get in trouble for. But people just hear
conviction and they don't care what it is. You're automatically like, oh,
I don't know if we want to you know, fell
(03:44):
in working here.
Speaker 6 (03:44):
Or yeah, all of that.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
It's hard to even get a place to live, and
you can have all the money in the world and
they look at you as a felon and then they're like, well,
we don't want them.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
Living in this particular complex or this building.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
So even myself, I've seen how my life just changed
once the conviction got handed down, and it was like
all the things that we took for granted, even something
simple as.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
Pre check right PreCheck.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
So I was like, they let you know very early
on that these things have been suspended. So it was
like me just noticing, like, oh, my life will be
very v You can't even.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Get a real estate license at first, like you have
to go through a whole process. You'll never get global entry.
Forget you can't even get global entry. And there's so
many things because even like getting a real estate license
is you can take the test, you can pass, you
can have an agency of brokers that's like okay, we'll
have you on as an agent, but you can't automatically
get that done.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
You have to go through a whole process, you know,
to make it happen. And sometimes it's also something that
people are ashamed to even have to talk about.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Yes, it's very it's a very sensitive subject matter because
they're thinking about what's going to happen. Happen after they
people notice what their situation was. So it's like sometimes
people will lie on.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
Their applications because they're housing.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
You know, out of survival. It's like, I need this
job at least to get me a couple of dollars
and maybe when they find out that I'm a felon
and they eventually fire me, then not at.
Speaker 6 (05:06):
Least have a couple of checks get me through the
next couple months.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Oh, you'll be thinking, well, at least they know me
now and I'm in here, so maybe they'll know that.
But that's why I love what it is that you're
doing right, because this is also what I find is
that people that have uh, these convictions and these felonies
on their record, they want to be able to work,
They want to be able to be productive members of society.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
They just need a chance.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
You hire, just for everybody to be clear, you hire formally, incurious.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
As all we do, all right, So everybody in that
shop has been you know, justice impacted.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
What do you think other businesses, society as a whole
are overlooking about this population?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
I mean a wealth of talent, a wealth of dedicated,
you know, skilled individuals that want to prove you wrong.
And I think when we look at it from that
lens of somebody like just waiting for some a person
to give them a chance to say yes, and then
they're going to show you what they can do behind
the yes, versus people just no, no, no, you can't
do this, or not even knowing them and then looking
at them just because they have a record and saying that, oh,
(06:06):
because you have a record, you cannot do this, and
don't even know from a canapign So it's like very
important for the people to just give them a chance
to show you what they can do do.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
You think you were treated fairly by the justice system.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
No, not at all, and for multitude reasons. And you know,
for me, looking back at when I was going through
what I was going through, I was just looked at
as a feeling. It wasn't looked at the people lives
that I changed and saved when I was you know,
in that industry, right the countless the hundreds of people
that I still in contact with that you know I've
(06:39):
affected their life in a positive way.
Speaker 6 (06:41):
None of that was discussed.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
It was just, now, this is your situation, this is you,
and this is what you've done, and that's what you
know continues to follow me to this day. But for me,
I don't look at it from that negative perspective. I
just try to stay focused on what we're doing is
try to stay grounded in what this movement that we're
pushing and then continue to push forward.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
How do you do that? Sorry, Like, how do you
find the resilience and the financial, not financial, the psychological
strength to do that?
Speaker 4 (07:09):
I mean, if we don't do it, then who's going
to do it? I think, you know, there's nobody that's
going to attempt to try to save us from you know,
the things that you know have been following us, you know,
since somebody has gotten convicted. Once you get convicted, it's
essentially like a life sentence, right, because whatever you've done
follows you for the rest of your life. A lot
(07:29):
of people who've been justice impacted when they are starting
businesses and want to and aspire to be entrepreneurs, it's
out of survival. A lot of times people don't have options.
If you know that you're unable to get a job
and that you have walked into countless interviews and somebody
has just excluded you just because that simple fact, then
it's like, what can I do. I don't want to
(07:50):
go back to what I was doing before, which is
the common misconception that people think that people just want
to go back to the things that got him in jail.
Speaker 6 (07:58):
That'd be the last option, right. A lot of people
want to change.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
When you give people opportunities and people have certain boxes checked,
which is, you know, having somewhere to live and having employment,
you reduced forcidivism by a lot. So those two basic
are the two basic drivers other citivism. So if we
can you know, cover those, then people can at least
get a start to try.
Speaker 6 (08:19):
To do something.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I also wanted to ask you because I know your
family also was definitely for the movement as well and
did a lot of positive things in the neighborhood you
know too. So was this something you feel like was
ingrained in you when you think about even aside from
your personal situation, but just wanting to make sure that you.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Were part of this solution.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Was it something that even when you were young, you
knew somehow, some way this was going to be your path.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Yes, my father was very heavily involved in community, and
you know, he was on a movement. I have, you know,
family members that were part of the Black Panther Party
Philadelphia chapters. So I feel like this definitely was something
in me. And also have a family of entrepreneurs. You know,
my older brother his name is Kenya, and he started
a scheme which is a holding line that you know,
(09:05):
one of the top clue line that ever come out
of Philadelphia. Yeah, that's a bit back in two thousands.
So I was able to see, you know, very early
on that entrepreneurship was possible because I had people around
my life that showed me and to this day he's
still an entrepreneur and still pushing that movement. So for me,
I was blessed to be around individuals who I can,
you know, be exposed.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
To and see that something is actually possible.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
So let's talk about Down North Pizza for a minute.
Because when you first opened, there was so much press
around it, so much going on that you guys were
like not even prepared for what was going to happen
that first day.
Speaker 6 (09:41):
No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
When I think back and we laugh about this now,
because Miji opened a restaurant with no restaurant experience.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
You know, none, because even with restaurant experience, it's hard
to open a restaurant.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Yes, And I remember when I was telling people about
Down North in my idea and it's like, dude, what
are you talking about.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
You don't make pizza.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
You going in like probably one of the worst neighborhoods,
which is in Philadelphia, and you don't have any experience.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
And black people with pizza shops. Yeah, I mean there's
a few, but that's.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
Not normally say yeah. So it's like you sure about this?
Speaker 4 (10:17):
And I think that was one of the driving reasons
why I wanted to do it, because I'm very competitive,
so I wanted to prove people wrong. And I was like,
you know, and the fact that I was hiring felons,
They're like, this sounds like a recipe for a disaster,
and I was like, actually, I think about it the
other ways. I feel like this is a recipe for
success because for me, when I approach like business, it's like,
(10:39):
where's the void in the marketplace for something? So that's
my guide in light. So it's like, if we can
find out things that doesn't exist and push the envelope
and for me to be creative, the creative mind that
I am, that's where I am.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
I'm at the intersection. So for me, that's what I'm
looking for.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
So I saw this as a very unique opportunity to
as we say, bank some poles and save some lives.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Lank and Pime, I love that that you just stay
you listen to your voice.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
Yeah noise, Yeah, it's always going to be noise.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
And my biggest thing is focused, Like you have to
stay focused because there's always going to be noise around you.
Speaker 6 (11:14):
And if you can stay focused to stay of course
and you know, you can do something.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
You know, as an entrepreneur, I have to ask you,
like you said you had no experience in the restaurant business.
So that means you have to figure out, like all
of the permits, what is the things that I need?
You got to have all kinds of like, hey, we
got to have our food handlers license. We got to
make sure somebody's on site to handle this. You got
to worry about inspections, all of those things. Did you
have to Did you sit down and have like a plan.
(11:38):
Some people will tell you, all right, I put together
a business plan. I did X, Y and Z, Like
how did you even say okay, we're ready for opening day?
What was that process?
Speaker 4 (11:47):
So now I started account as business before, so I
feel like business at the core there is the same.
It's just different systems. Systems the world make or break businesses.
So I had to learn the restaurant systems. And you know,
I understand market and I understand stand all the back
end stuff. And that's why leading up to down North
opening it took about six months. People don't know about
(12:07):
how you know long it actually took for it to
actually open up and actually sell pizza. That in itself
was the whole process. You remember, I'm telling you I'm
going through my own legal troubles during the time, I'm
still building out the space that down No Pizza resides in.
So for me, it was a lot leading up to that,
and you know, hiring the right people and finding the
(12:27):
right talent because I needed to learn from them.
Speaker 6 (12:32):
One of my biggest features being the entrepreneurs like humility.
You have to be humble.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
You have to know what you know, and you have
to know what you don't know, right And I was
comfortable with what.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
I didn't know nothing about running the restaurant. The first
time being in the back of a restaurant was when
I built Down North. I'm in the back of the house.
Speaker 6 (12:48):
And it's like, oh, this is a restaurant. This is
what it feels like. And I had to learn. I
learned from the chefs.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
You know that we work together, you know Chef Mike,
you know, the executive chef at Down North, Like we
worked hand in hand to you know, for him to
allow me to you know, grow into it what it
is right now in the restaurant space.
Speaker 6 (13:06):
You know, I was working the line essentially, we talked.
We laugh about it now.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
But when I first we first opened up, I was
at the job of this fries and wings like just
put it.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
And I'm like, okay, let's do it.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
And it's like it's a whole kitchen culture that I
wasn't privy to prior. So it's like people moving around,
you know, all the stuff that we watch on the
Bear Bear and it's like all that language. It was
foreign to me, so all that noise, you know, and
all that yes. So it was like I'm.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
Sitting there and I'm learning how to navigate within the
kitchen space. It was fun.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
I made some mistakes, you know, made a lot of mistakes,
but they were cool because I was able to learn
and grow from them. And you know, we're still together today.
You know, Mike is this chef at the new restaurant.
So we were able to grow over time. And that
was very important because, like I said, had I not
had that humility, and I wouldn't be able to say
I can learn from that, you know works.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
There was so much more to you. There is so
much more to you. You were in real estate developing
and property management before that, and you actually own the
building that Down North is in.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Yes, prior to down North, I had a real estate
development company in I always sort of value in individuals
who've been formally incarcerated, and my whole development team was
comprised of them.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Pre incarceration was because your family, Yeah, yeah, justice impacted
and who knew that whatever happened to you.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Yes, And my thing was, I had a whole staff,
a whole you know, electricians, you know, tradesmen that were
formingly incarcerated or impacted by you know, some type of
addiction that worked and actually built that building as well.
So the full circle moment was building was actually built
by hands of individuals who've been justice impacted. So for me,
it was like, like I said, one of those full
(14:53):
circle moments, and then seeing the building, the shell, you
know initially that was there, and then from the shell
to the first slice of pizza, it was like a
surreal feeling to see a customer walk out the door
with the pizza. Because, like I said, opening the business
is not easy, opening business during the pandemic.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
It's definitely not easy.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
And what we.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Were trying to do, and I attributed a lot of
that to timing as well. So you know, sometimes you
just get caught at the right time with a business
concept and it can take off from there.
Speaker 6 (15:23):
I think timing is very important.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
And dealing with what you dealt with also put another
fire behind you to say this has to happen.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
Yes, it has to happen.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
And you had the InKo monitor and people didn't even
know while you were working that you were in the
pizza shop with an ankle monitor on.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
No nobody knew.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
I think a lot of people found out through the
book because I didn't.
Speaker 6 (15:43):
I wanted to.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
I'm all, I'm a big person when it comes to accountability,
and I wanted to be held accountable for what my
role was within that. So don't look at my ankle
monitor and say, oh, I'm gonna let you off the hook.
Let me know what I have to do, and even
if it's not myself, I can utilize resources around me
to you know, take care of what I'm responsible for.
So and I also did not want this to be
(16:06):
a big media thing where they focused on myself and
it never was about.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Me being a James Beard Award winner. As much as
you can step back, I love your business and kind
of life.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Mantra.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Competition is at the bottom and collaboration is at the top.
Speaker 6 (16:23):
Yep, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I mean we always open collaborations with pizza shops, other cafes,
other restaurants, because we don't look at it as a
competitive thing. We you know, understand that they have a
customer base. We have a customer base, and you know,
you also can share a customer base. And we've done
collaborations with other pizza spots. One of our favorites, you know,
Scars in New York. We do a lot of collaborations
(16:46):
with them. And sometimes people can understand, like how you
collaborating with the pizza shop. It's like it's easy. You know,
you both do something different, right, every business, even whether
it's in the same business, you do something different. So
how can we come together and formulate something based off
of what you do, based off of what I do?
And I'm always open for that.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
I'm going to step out of this conversation for a minute, everybody,
because I'm a non coffee drinker and I have someone
who has started as shame by the way I want to.
I still push friends of mine who have coffee and
push their coffee and.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
I don't even know if it's good coffee.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Everything she does is good. Come on, because she was
I saw how hard she worked in learning and studying coffee.
She went to Columbia. Yes, to study and learn about coffee.
You're opening a new cafe that's coffee, And now I'm
just gonna not say anything for a while.
Speaker 6 (17:37):
No.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I opened my coffee shop during the pandemic as well,
coffee up those people. So that was definitely a very
challenging time build out wise, as far as the materials
and getting people to come and get things done and
getting even permits and stuff like that that we needed
to make happen. It was probably like three times more
expensive than it would have been to do it right now,
just as far as that's but definitely want to hear
(17:59):
about the coffee and talk to me about it.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
So I thought that the concept about West in twenty
twenty one when I'm West and it's a play on words,
just like down with pizza. It's like you gotta be
facility to understand.
Speaker 5 (18:16):
Oh, okay, you're from West Philadelphia.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
Yes, West Philadelphia actually a block away from.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
Where the Morning raised.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Sorry, And I thought of the concept of like, you know,
I want to do coffee.
Speaker 6 (18:30):
I always love coffee.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
I was always on the consumer side, but I actually
wanted to open up a cafe and I'm like, I
want to do it. I want to continue the mission.
I know that we had to open up a spot
so we can provide more opportunities for individuals who've been
justice impacted. So I thought about it back then and
in the midst of it. I'm the type of person
that if I'm going to get into something new, I.
Speaker 6 (18:48):
Need to learn as much area.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
I love that, no need to learn to be able to,
you know, open up this business, because I feel like
when you're opening something, there shouldn't be You never should
be put in a position where it's somebody can tell
you something about your business that you can't confirm it deny,
and if you don't know something about it, then you
at the mercy of somebody telling you you need this
or this doesn't work because you.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
Had no knowledge about it.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
So for me, I wanted to like study coffee like
in every you know form that it was. So had
an opportunity to study coffee and I think Staten Island
or Columbia, those are my two options.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Which one did you pick?
Speaker 6 (19:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (19:29):
So I took up the opportunity. And there's a univer
it's university nights more so university diversity, but Coffee Academy
in Bogota, Columbia, and they literally teach you everything about coffee.
Speaker 6 (19:45):
That was the first time I actually knew coffee.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Was a fruit and I think he's a fruit. Yes,
it's a very.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
And then because you know what a lot of people
don't understand too about coffee is like light rose versus
dark roast, and which one is more caffeine?
Speaker 5 (20:00):
And why onenes a light roast? Why on it? There
is so many different things.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
It's so many different layers. I don't you know.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
We traveled, you know, eleven thousand feet above sea level
to actually see the coffee trees and where they grow,
and it was an experience.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
And even thinking about how people have to pick coffee
beans or just how people are also compensated in these
black and brown countries where coffee is grown, and why
it's important for us to be part of that whole,
you know, just bringing we talk about fair trade, but
it has to go even deeper than that.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Yes, that definitely has to go. And I was blown
away just by the experience. I spent by a total
like three months there.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
That's amazing, and really.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Getting into them with like coffee in different ways. And yeah,
because I know another thing people probably be like, well,
y'all know it's about coffee.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
Yeah, people would just assume that.
Speaker 6 (20:47):
I assume that, And it's like, no, we we stamped.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
What do you say to a non coffee drinker like Stacey?
Because because I also believe that people have this notion
that coffee is not good for you for reason and there,
and coffee does have a lot of benefits.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I think it's great.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
I just grew.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I think it's because my mother didn't drink coffee. My
father was a big coffee drinker, but I just I
just never drank it. I think I've had two cups
of coffee in my entire life.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
It's an acquired taste. I would say, if you don't
like coffee, try macha.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Okay, that's a fact matcha would give you.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
But Macha has a much more earthier taste, so or
a tea.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I can barely contain my energy. I never wanted to
ingest anything that gave me more energy.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Macha is a little different when it comes to I
think coffee like takes you on that, you know, straight up,
But macha is like micro dos and caffeine.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Nothing against it.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I just but you know, I love what you had
to say about actually going and studying what it is
that you want to do, because you know, even for
us when we started our coffee company, we started underneath
another brand and then we were able to get our
education that way and then eventually start roasting our own
beans as well and learn how to do that. And
I'm a big fan of once you decide to get
(21:59):
into to a business, just like you said, to learn
every aspect of it that you possibly can, and to
continue to learn and grow because industries are always evolving, yes,
you know as well.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
And so no, that was that's very important because you know,
like you said, industries are evolving. Coffee is being roasted
in different ways as opposed to just the traditional way
that people have been roasting. There's a lot of local roasters.
We deal with local roasters in Philly that we get
coffee from. And I think the evolution of coffee is
could be a benefit for everybody.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
What kind of coffee are you going to serve? A
new cafe?
Speaker 6 (22:32):
So right now we've been open for two weeks.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Oh this is fresh fresh, Okay.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
It took about two and a half years to you know,
build out the space, equipment, staff and everything. So week
two weeks and it's been a hack Fay experience. And
we not only sell coffee, we also sell premium breakfast sandwiches.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
So you're selling your own blends of coffee.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
Not yet, we're going with the local roaster Poem Roasting
in Philly. Definitely that you know the best, you know
roads locally.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
That you can get another rose. We always opened.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
We all love doing collapse with each other. As a
matter of fact about that, we.
Speaker 6 (23:14):
Talked about.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
You want to touch on your book before you go,
but I also just really want to give you a
shout out that you have a foundation, new pizza foundation,
tell everybody what that does.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
So when and I opened Down North Pizza maybe a
year or so later, we figured that we're doing a
lot of community based things and we also wanted to
know how can we like transform that and elevate that
because we're doing a lot of like this volunteer stuff.
And that's when the idea of the Down North Foundation
was birthed and we operated a little different than traditional foundations.
(23:47):
So with us, we actually work with community, whether it's
the justice impact community or the community within Strawberry Mansion
at Down North Pizza resides in and we talked to
them and we you know, connect with them to see
what they're need. We go out raise the money and
then we take the you know, the resources back to them.
So we build out initiatives underneath the foundation based off
(24:08):
the community's needs. That's amazing and that's what we've been
doing for the past three years. And I was telling
you about one of the programs that we got called
Protect Your Crib. As we see how gentrification is like
ravaging through our communities, like how can we help? And
a lot of people are losing their houses simply because
they're defaulting on like property taxes right like a big
(24:29):
and then in Philadelphia County you can actually your house
will be going to what's it called sheriff cele with
the sheriff or auction.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
Off, your auction off your house just because of these taxes.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Because of these taxes. So we like, well, how can
we help? And two years ago we started Protect your
Crib And I'm like, well about we just pay their taxes,
get them a fresh, clean slate. They are programs that
will give you tax credit. They just don't know about them.
So provide an informative session so that they can learn
about these programs, enroll them in the programs. Now you
have a Ziro balance, so we know that at least
(25:00):
for the next five or ten years. You know, based
on how you can budget your money, that you'll at
least be in your house for that and kind of
build off of that, because even though the neighborhoods are
being gentrified, you still should be able to enjoy the
neighborhood when it turns over.
Speaker 6 (25:13):
And a lot of people in Philly are homeowners.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Right, A lot of people from New York are moving
to Philly. I just want to say I was reading
an article about that.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
How Yeah, we wasn't too happy about being called the
sixth borough.
Speaker 6 (25:24):
I name it that. I just said, yeah, that was
with the art.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
I saw the article and I'm like, Philly, none of
the Philadelphians is.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Okay, look at the football team I inherited.
Speaker 6 (25:34):
Which one the Eagles? Okay I gave you.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Don't get me, Okay, I'm not going to turn this
on because you're not gonna call us no sense.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I also want to point out that not only are
you doing this mission based business with Down North Pizza,
but the piece is also amazing and you guys have
gotten tons of awards. No, because listen, it could be great,
good mission pieces nasty yeah, but that is not the
case here.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
No, And that was that's important that even though, like
I always tell people, you know, even though there's a
difference between a supporter and the customer, and when we
opened Down the Earth, we had tons of supporters, it
was our job to convert to supporters into customers and
you only can do that through products and services. So
we know that we had to provide a premium product
so that all the support we can get that we
were getting can translate into customers. And that's what you
(26:23):
need to suffice a business. You need return to customers,
you need customers. And we knew we had to make
a premium product and that was you know, at the forefront.
And it's like, we don't want to be known at
you know as just oh this great mission, but there
you know, when it comes.
Speaker 6 (26:37):
To these products.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
So we know we had to be on the forefront
of providing this premium product and that's what we worked
tirely to do to make sure that we're providing quality
with everything we do and people not just thinking that
they had to support because we're doing this good thing
you should want to go and spend.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
Your money because I also like it, yes and feel
good about it.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
And the other thing, because I was reading, I think
you guys did like a thousand pis or something like
that for the grand opening. But you have to give
people of grace too when they're first opening.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
Yes, yes, we got a lot of grace.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, that's important because sometimes people will give like bad
reviews and Somethime's only been open for like a week
or two and you're like, yo, give us a moment.
Speaker 6 (27:12):
Yeah, so we got a lot of grace.
Speaker 5 (27:14):
Because you have to start making pies right.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
Yes, I remember that grand opening weekend where people stood
in line for two hours just to order really, and
then probably another hour or two.
Speaker 6 (27:24):
Oh that's awesome.
Speaker 5 (27:25):
See.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
So don't ever think that community doesn't support when you
want to do something like this. There are so many
people when you get the message out there that are
willing to support. But then it's on you to make
sure that the product is something like you said, that
turns into a customer, will turn you into a customer.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
I'm going to call you the Renaissance Fair because in
addition to your foundation and all these other things, your
incredible book, We the Pizza not only tells your story,
but it's a history lesson. Yes, it preached you schooled
me about the thirteenth Amendment and what happened.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Yeah, because a lot of people don't know how we
got to this point we're talking about with the prison
system and the evolution and why is a business model
like this even necessarily in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
How do we get to the point where we needed this?
Speaker 4 (28:09):
And we take you on a journey within the book
that it started from slavery. Slavery just transitioned into the
prison system, and that's where we're at right now, and
that's where a lot of people don't know about prison.
So throughout the book, and everybody you know copy your book.
You can see that there's little footnotes throughout you know,
(28:30):
the book on the bottom of the pages that give
you timestamped you know, events that happened to get you
to the point of where we're at right now with
the carcal system.
Speaker 6 (28:40):
How is evolved into.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
This this industry that employs so many people, that so
many people rely on.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
You broke it down so clearly, how the economy really
fell apart in the South when slavery.
Speaker 6 (28:51):
Oh yeah, stopped.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
So they had to figure out how to get those
people back in the fields. Yeah, so they just made
more things illegal.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
I mean yeah, it's like convict leasing and things like
that that were prevalent, where you know, they had to
figure out how can we get people back on these
fields and work. It's like, oh, well, let's create the laws,
let's lock them up, and then when they can't beil
themselves out, we'll show up and be like, all right,
well you can come work this dead off and make
that a revolving you know, door like loitering, like one
(29:21):
of those laws where you can even be caught standing outside.
Mind you, when they released the slaves, there was just like.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Go ahead, you can't stand here.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Yeah, so it's like that became a crime. So it's
like when we create the laws, then we also can
say you know this is wrong, you can't do this,
and then we can control the systems. And the system
evolved to what we have today where you have so
many different systems entangled within the cartal state.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I saw you also wrote in here I think it
was one in three black men your age will end
up getting arrested.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Oh yeah, absolutely, and that's you know, something that's been
prevalent in America for a very long time.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Well, this is really moving.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
And I was telling you before we started this, I
was in Detroit, you know, shout out to Detroit, and
I was just randomly out and it's like, oh, you
got to get this book, you know. And I saw
I got a copy of this book while I was
in Detroit. That's how everything that you have is traveling around.
And it turns out, as I was reading it, this
(30:22):
is based on Detroit style pizza, the pizza that you
had there with the Philly twist.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yes, don't leave out that Philly twist.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Yeah, Now that you got the book, shout out to Ashtley, Yes,
thank you as as a ray no from Detroit. They
behold me down out there and for me, yeah, the
Detroit style pizzas were inspired the Philly style pizza that
we have right now.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
And we were doing research.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
I wanted to do a square pizza because there was
a lot of nostalgia around growing up and.
Speaker 6 (30:49):
Eating square pizza. So we were like, what are we
going to do?
Speaker 4 (30:52):
So we landed at oh, well, Detroit style is a
good starting point, and we saw how the Detroit style pizza.
You know, used the Wisconsin break cheese, the line goods
that like that great fence that comes around you use
those pants that that special pants that you have to
cook the Troit pizza. Detroit pizza is more like a
rectangle though, and it's way more dense than the pizza
(31:13):
that we make. And that's why I think we switched
it up. We overhydrated the dough. We made it more
of a square and it's not as dense. And we
don't use Wisconsin.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
You didn't bring any, he said.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
It's crazy as that. He said, forget New York. You know,
we're the sixth Borough and all, but we're gonna go
to Detroit.
Speaker 6 (31:32):
Crazy.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
I'm just kidding. I don't want nobody from Philly to
get mad at me. I'm just playing.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Okay, guys, but yes, and even the names of the pizza,
by the way, super cute.
Speaker 5 (31:41):
So I love that.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Yeah, So we definitely get pay hamas to a lot
of the Philadelphia artists. So all of our pizzas are
named after notable Philadelphia songs and that's like the theme
of the restaurant. So you know, you get some history too,
because we you know, even go back to the older song.
So we pay homus to Philly in a different way,
because you know, we just prod for when it comes
to Philly, be wed on that shoulders. You'll know a
(32:03):
Philadelphia anywhere, Yes you will.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
And we the pizzas on Amazon.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
We the pizzas on Amazon, Barnes and Noble anywhere you know.
You can buy books online. Also a lot of local bookstores.
You want to support local bookstores, and there are a
lot of local bookstores around the United States.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
The full name. I love it. We the pizza slinging
pies and saving lives.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
All right, well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I cannot wait to come out there and come by
the pizza shop and the cafe.
Speaker 6 (32:29):
So we're gonna talk about this coffee thing.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Yeah, I came here with you got your coffee drinkers.
I can't believe you.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
You know it's crazy. Can I just have a moment
of honesty.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I had pizza earlier today and then I was like, oh, shoot,
what if he brings pizza out?
Speaker 5 (32:42):
So I stopped eating.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
I didn't eat lunch.
Speaker 6 (32:45):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
I was like, nobody's going to bring pizza from Philly.
It'll be cold by the time it gets here.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Your heart.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
That just means a road trip and I'm excited for
that and press some collaborationally yes that we can do
in the future.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
So thank you so much for coming do for wealth.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Happy Wealth Wednesdays, everybody,
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Angela Yee
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