Don Cheadle On 'Fight Night', 'Oceans' Series, Working with Jay-Z & Kendrick Lamar + More
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
What's up? His way up with the Angela Yee I'm
Angela Yee beat I is guest hosting with me, you
know what. He usually leaves before the interview, but don
Cheeto's here, and he asked me so nicely, he said,
do you mind if I stick around for don Cheto?
But when I tell you this, whole entire flor is
so excited and so am.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I prepared to be very disappointed.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Now listen, and I can see the background with stand
up comedy.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
A little hey man, you know, got to keep them
laughing right the way they just don't stay focused on
other stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Well, listen. I did have a chance to watch the
first five episodes. Oh cool, A fight night. Fascinating story, Yeah,
really interesting, you know, one that so many people have
never heard of.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I mean, I guess it's not surprising that they haven't
heard of it, given you know how our history kind
of goes and gets overlooked sometimes. But yeah, really interesting
story about Muhammad Ali's first comeback after he was a
conscience just objector to the war. And it's nineteen seventies,
so he'd been out a fight game for three years
and the senator in Atlanta was able to find a
(01:07):
loophole in the law and get him a fight in
Atlanta when Atlanta was really starting to become like Chocolate City,
you know, really starting to become this burgeoning mecca for
black people to kind of find their way as entrepreneurs
and all these other you know, business models that they
were able to create and vehicles for themselves at that time.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, they had stripped him of his license, so he
really couldn't fight anywhere exactly. It's interesting, and I know
you come from there to I went to go see
Home on Broadway, and you know, the subject of Home
is he refused to fight in the war and ended
up having to go to jail, right, And people sometimes
look at that as you die, as the draft and X,
Y and Z. Some people really don't believe in a war.
How do you fight for awarded you don't believe in absolutely?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I mean not that soldiers don't do it every day, right,
but to really sacrifice what he sacrificed and put it
all on the line, and really you know, not just
put his money whereas but put his reputation. He risked everything.
There was no promise that he was going to be
able to come back, you know, what I mean, And
for a lot of people in the country at that time,
(02:08):
he was a pariah. They were like, just like you said,
they're like, this dude's a draft dodger. This guy doesn't
he's not a patriot. But you know the other side
of that coin is that that's the height of patriotism,
right in some ways, standing up for your principles and
really fighting for what you believe is the better idea
of what your country should be and what they should
be doing, and when they're not be willing to risk everything.
(02:31):
I mean, he did something that very few people would do.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Right. Absolutely, you go, you try to just be stationed
somewhere where you don't have to necessarily. But you know,
you're right about that. And we also don't think about
the sacrifice that that takes because the media looks at
it and people will talk about you like you are
the worst person because you don't you're not patriotic and
you don't want to represent your country. But watching this,
it certainly shows me also that I didn't even realize
(02:56):
how black people weren't supportive of Muhammad Ali during that time.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I mean, and my character is you know J. D.
Hudson that I play is from a different era. You know,
he's a throwback in many ways, and it does bring
into question what it actually means, you know, And I
think again, right now, we're in a real moment where
we're going, are y'all patriots? Like you know, all these
people standing up and talk about there being patriots, It's like, really,
(03:22):
I don't know. I think it's it's time to redefine
what that means and actually look at that in terms
of uh, when you when you hold your country or
you hold your leaders to a higher level of responsibility,
and you know, this is this is what this moment
is about. You know, who is the real patriot the
person that just shows up and salutes and says yes
(03:44):
sir and gets in line no matter what's going on,
or somebody who goes, no, my country has to be
better than that. We have to be we have to
be better in that. And I recuse myself from you know,
standing up and coming to the line as Ali did
when I think they're acting in a way that's not
in the interest of the citizens.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
And you've been he's been very vocal too about talking
about politics. That's all you're talking about Trump, And when
you talk about Trump in a negative way when I
tell you they come for you.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, yeah, come on, I mean, yeah, come on.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I always say it's so important who doesn't like you,
just as important it is as who does like you. Absolutely,
and so certain people I'm like, good, stay over there,
don't like me, don't for me, I don't.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Well that's the best. Yeah, that's that's one of the
best things about this moment is that you actually get
to see who everybody is. You know, It's like, okay, cool,
let your freak flag fly. I want to know who
you are. I want to understand when I go over
there that I'm p and G. I'm persona on grouded
for you. So yeah, just be just let's let's be
real about it. I'm not I'm not worried about that
at this moment. It's it's so much more important that
(04:40):
we do what we have to do and and come
together and push back on you know, I think this
is really a vote for democracy. This is really a
vote for are we going to buckle under to authoritarianism
or are we going to try to do something for
the country?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Beat that I got to put you on blast because
he said he didn't know who he wanted.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
To for Yeah, I tried not to.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So much misinformation.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I know it's a lot of misinformation right now.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
So it's like, I don't know what side of defense
I should you know, right, well, I'll tell.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
You it's right.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, But sometimes you know, there's so much out there,
and I think that Donald Trump does a great job
of making things seem true that's not true, and just
saying things like their facts even though they're not. And
people believe what they want to believe too. You can
choose to believe what's not real, right, and that's a choice.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I think it's about your feelings. And look, he's doing
something that is directly out of the mind comp playbook.
I mean, if you say a lie, of the bigger
the lie, and the more times you repeat it, the
more that it can can you know, be persuasive. And
he's on the mic and he's a he's P. T.
Barnum and you know, we've we have not seen someone
(05:50):
like this in the political arena to this degree, and
clearly we're not equipped and able to respond in some ways.
And I think it is true that with all of
the different places that you can go and kind of
have your a la carte news experience that you don't
have to listen to opposing views and you don't have
(06:11):
to do your research. You can just point to one
source and go see that's what they're saying. Yeah, yeah,
And I think really this is you know, it's more
it's as much about feelings as it is about facts
right now, especially for the people who are like if
your feelings. It's like, I've never seen more people in
their feelings and if your feelings people in my life
(06:33):
stop it. You know, this is really about like how
people connect emotionally in some ways. To you don't want
that cognitive dissonance. You don't want to be feeling like
this is the truth. But this doesn't make me feel good,
So let me just go to what makes me feel good.
And I'm just gonna ride with that. And people are like,
this dude's funny. He's like he breaks the mold. He's
(06:54):
not your regular everyday politician. He's like, you know, he's
a tough guy. It's like any of those tricks if
you break them down and go but really, how like
but really how not just just making a statement. I'm like, really,
show me how he's a good businessman? Literally, show me that.
Please show me how he's not. In multiple ways. Everyone
can show you how he's not. Show me, name one
(07:15):
policy that he's enacted that has done anything for you
that's actually going to be progressive and help you in
your in your life. It's like, well, we were doing
better under him. He was able to bring in something
that was already happening before him and ride on the
wave of that.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Those texts that got signed that wasn't him, He didn't.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
But what a brilliant thing he did is like hold
he held it up, yeah, until he could sign them.
That's brilliant. I mean, it's diabolically brilliant. But it's like
those kinds of things over and over again to me
tell you the character of who this dude is, and
I just you know, and what happened with the Supreme Court,
which I kind of blamed the Democrats for, It's like,
how did we let that happen? So I think there's
(07:57):
just if you dig into it and you really granular
about what's happening, I don't think there's I think there's
a delta between the two choices and it's not even close.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
And sometimes playing by the rules is what really hurts
you because I feel like democrats can play by the
rules a whole lot, and then people who break the
rules and do what they want, they'll get certain results
a lot faster, but it's not done even the legal
way a lot of times.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Absolutely, And that's what we think have seen more than
anything during this term, is that it's not about what
you will do and if it's quote unquote right or wrong,
it's like what will the consequence be? And I think
that something else that Donald Trump was very a student
doing was you know, testing the fence everywhere and exploited
(08:42):
all of these sort of weaknesses in the system and
places that we were unequipped to deal with because we
never imagined they would be.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Challenged, like we needed a law to make sure.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, we didn't know that we needed to have a
law that said, if you're a convicted fella, you cannot
be the president. That's not a law. He could be
con they didn't go to jail and serve from a
prison cent for prison cell. That's actually the law in
this country. So again, yes, nobody ever thought that we
would have to say anything like that. But that's something
that I mean, and it's not just him. Look, you know,
he's this is this has been in play since the
(09:15):
think tanks happen. You know, this is you know, Dick
Cheney is still around, these guys that you know, we're
under Nixon. We're seeing things that are coming to fruition
that put in play a long time ago. So I
just hope that people will get informed, not sort of
equalize these choices as if they're too they're too equally weighted.
(09:39):
This isn't really This democracy is in play right now
for real and real and real in the real world.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Thank you, go.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Ahead talking about character, talk about the role you're playing
in this film.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Nice see yeah right, I mean, okay, well I'll go nice.
It's still nice.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
One of the first black detectives or the first black
detective in Atlanta, I think.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
One of the one of the first black detectives is
probably true.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
How'd you prepare for it?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Crack? Yeah, just I mean you can go through to
do acting exercise and research and all that, but if
you really want to break some stuff open, you gotta
get crazy. No, you know, there's a lot of research
about this guy. Uh, there's you can see video of
him being interviewed, and there's just a lot of research
(10:28):
about the police department at that time, and uh, the
first before he was a detective, he was you know,
he was he wasn't the first class of officers that
became officers police officers just in general, and then matriculated
moved his way up to becoming a detective. But yeah,
that that period of time, those his his descendants still
(10:49):
are around, you know. So, and we also had this
podcast to go off of that was yeah, I hear,
it was really it's really a great one. And that's
you know that, Plus the script that Shane wrote really
kind of gave us most of what we were going from.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I feel like you love a true story. I think
everybody kind of always more fascinating. I feel like then
a lot of times fiction true stories are like what
this really happens?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And again, to be one hundred, I'm gonna say, based
on a truth story, yeah, you have to because there's
poetic license we take everywhere. Always when you're doing these things,
characters get you know, combined, other things are omitted, things
take place at places that they didn't take place. But
the spirit of it, the truth of it, not the
facts of it, is clearly in here and it is
(11:39):
what it is, and it's based on yeah, this true story,
and absolutely I think it's always more fascinating because things
happen in real life. As we know that if you
saw in the script, I mean, let's go back to it.
If Trump existed in a script, they'd be like, dude,
take it down, that's too much.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
You also love an accent man.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Sometimes sometimes I hate it those oceans and preferred I
don't know about perfect. Thank you for saying yeah, it's
always that. That's that's a grind. It's something that's been
you know, but it's part and parcel of the character.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
It's hard for anybody, I think when you have to
put on I think Will Smith, like everybody's had, you know,
people who are like that was great or not. I
remember when the Bob Marley movie came out, people were
very concerned.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, but I mean it's it's challenging. Some people can
do it very easily. Some people have a real facility
for it. It's not easy for me. And it's something
that you know, when you're in your trailer going over
words and people are outside clowning around, You're like, dang,
I have to do this final I just do it
as me.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
So Ocean's fourteen is happening. It feels like, I mean,
I can find hearing conversations about.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
It and nobody called me.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
How could they not, though, I mean, how could they not?
How can they not do it or not call you
if they're doing it. I mean, that's impossible, is it?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
We need basheer.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that we've seen
everything happen. I imagine if it's happening, they're going to
call me for sure, but I don't. I don't know
that it's happening. I just think it's been a lot
of talk.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So yeah, a lot of talk about the script is
ready and they've been working on it. But you like
it though, right? You would? You would be willing?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yes, I mean I mean it would depend you know
what I mean. Like I almost wasn't in the second
one because, uh, interesting story, the timing of it on
paper at the time is going to be a direct
conflict with Hotel Rwanda.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Oh, Hotelwanda's classic, And I was like, there's no way
I'm going to do Ocean's twelve over Hotel over Hotel Rwanda,
So if I'm sorry, And then Brad playing the character
Achilles in the movie that he did tore his Achilles
and it pushed the movie eight weeks, which was the
(14:00):
window that I was able to do Oceans to How
crazy is that? All the times that you probably have
roles that you really wanted to do but timing wise
you couldn't. You know, that has to hurt sometimes when
you're like, man, I want to do it, but.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I mean, I'm gonna say honestly, I I'm sure that happens.
But I've rarely been in that situation. I've been very
fortunate and blessed in every word you want to use
to have the opportunity to do most of the things
that I've I've wanted to do in some ways they've
come together and you know, I've just been really blessed
in that way. But it doesn't always It always looks
(14:32):
easier than Like when when I was doing Hotel Rwanda
the first day, what was it lunch? And my agent
called me and he's like, how's it going. I'm like, oh,
it's great. He's like you, how are the is everything good?
The house? Yeah, with the kids are good, and the
kids are in school, they're good, doing everything's good. He's like, Okay,
I just want to let you know there's no money
in escrow for the movie. What are you talking about it.
(14:55):
He's like, there's no money in escrow for the movie.
So right now you're you're out. You're out there for free.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
WHOA, that's a scary situation.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah. I was like, so what does that mean? He's like,
I don't know. He goes, I don't know what it means.
It means if you stay out there. It's like I
can send you tickets and you can come home. It's like,
my kids are in I put my kids in school there.
You know that I'm out here with the three hundred
people in a production and a crew. It's like he's like,
I'm just telling you there's no money. I said, so
what's going to happen? He's like, well, Alex, who is
our producer at the time, He's like he's just going
(15:26):
to start putting it on his credit card and hope
that this waterfall, all these different waterfalls whenever you produce.
So often when you make an independent or a low
budget movie like that. I don't even know what the
budget was on Hotel Rount It maybe eight and a half,
maybe ten and a half. It wasn't that much, and
it went further in South Africa where we were filming it.
But there's all this waterfall of money that has to happen.
(15:47):
Like I'd say, we're all producers on it. It's like, well,
once Angel's money comes in and Don's money will come
in and beat outs money. It's like, but everybody's waiting
to be the second person to put their money.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
In, right, and sometimes sometimes people pull out.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, well it's happened on my movie. I had a
producer five weeks before the movie say like, I think
I have a million dollars too much exposure Like that
mean he's like, I'm taking a million dollars out of
the movie. Now when you have an eight point five
million dollar budget, that's significant.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah that's almost that's smart than Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah, that's a week. That's you got to figure out
locations and maybe not parts you can people can't put
people in parts, and got to lose days on things,
and so it's it's really like, I mean, that's why
it's a miracle anything gets made outside the studio system.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
It's still you think today though, because yeah, you think
it's worse it because I was going to say, with
technology and not having to have like you know how
they used to have to have the filming was different
and digitizing things, I would think in a way that
could make it easier, but no easier for who financially.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Well, No, look, I think that's the scary part about AI, right,
it'll be easier for them to put us in things
that you know, they don't have to pay us to
be there, and they don't have to, like, you know,
spend that capital on physical human beings. And they're also
using AI now to do schedules and to do boards
and to do you know, days and breakdowns and scripts
(17:10):
and all that stuff. They're taking the jobs away from
Those are all people that used to do those jobs.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I saw.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
They'll lay people off, but then bring in a whole
new department for AI and spend money in that space.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Unlet's oppose on is that a black jobs? AI jobs
or black jobs?
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Let's go great seeing you and Sam Jack in person again.
This is the second time you guys are on screen.
How was that chemistry?
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Like, it's great, Sam and I have a great time.
You know, he comes from a similar background theater actor,
you know, takes it really seriously and very collaborative and
down to play and find stuff, and that's kind of
how I work. So I've known Sam Sam for a
long time and we've been hoping to be able to
(17:52):
do something that had something, and it was nice to
be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Kevin Hart, really Kevin Heart, I don't know. He did
an amazing job here. I do want to say that,
oh that short dude, Yeah yeah, sure he is short. Yeah,
but he did an amazing job. I just want to
But I can't even imagine what this was like with
you guys on camera together.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
It was every day, every day, every day.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Lori Harvey's in the in the series as well. I mean,
how was it for you, like as far as having
people around you, because it's all different levels of acting
you know, around you, and like you said, you do
come from theater, so does Samuel L. Jackson. But then
you have you know, people like Chloe Bailey who's newer
added and Lori Harvey. Yeah, so how is that like
(18:36):
on set? Are you giving advice to the yo? I mean,
because you're also a director, so that could be something
really helpful to have you Like in the second job.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I mean, I've I've worn every hat you know, the
director written, and I think that that's good when you
can be additive, and you can you can be helpful.
And I try to be full service and not just
be like, just take care of myself and my own
performance and my thing. You have to do that, that's
job one. But you know, if you have the ability
(19:08):
to see around a corner and understand that, oh, this
is something that would be helped if we did this
or that or move this this way, you know, and
then you know you mentioned Sam again, dude who's steeped
in the game, and Taraji too, Terrence to the right,
you know. So there's a lot of years and when
we're all pulling in the same direction and trying to
(19:28):
accomplish the same things, then it's it's helpful and it's
it's necessary because you never have enough time, you know,
you never have all the resources you need, and you
can be an impediment to the process if you sit
on your heels or you know, just make it me, me, me,
And that was not what this experience was at all. Everybody,
(19:48):
like I said, was was on board with the story
and wanted to really get the best out of it.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
My character.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I'm on one side of you've seen the first five.
I'm like on one side of the show for most
of the show, and it's not until the fifth or
sixth episode I think when it's I kind of start
to even meet those other characters, right, So that that
was a whole you know, it was kind of happened
in two parts. For me.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
There was some really key parts in here where that
I loved that you had. For instance, like when you
found out you had to protect Muhammad Ali and then
there was a moment when he was fighting and you
were like yes. I was like, finally, this is Muhammad Ali.
Because it seemed like at first you didn't even want
that job. So why was that a job that would
have been considered something that was like beneath what you do?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Well, it's not what he was. That's how how does
that get you on your path to being a detective?
You know? How is that actually police work? I think
for JD police make security exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
You have to go to the fight, yeah, bring out
with Muhammad Ali.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, but that ain't what he That's not what his
character ever was in it for He really had, you know,
a path that he was trying to be on and
taking this detour to make sure that this guy doesn't
get assaulted, which also looks like a sucker play for him.
It's like the amount of death threats that he had
and the amount of hatred that was around him. He's like, now,
(21:13):
what happens if this dude gets shot on my watch?
Now I'm like demoted for a thing I didn't even
want to do. You know, so, I think from JD's perspective,
this was not you know, this was a sidestep at best,
and even some in some ways of demotion.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Okay, what does j D's family think about your role?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I have not talked to him, but no one's showed
up with a you know. Well, look, there's a lot
of As you said, I've done this a lot. I've
played real life characters and I've had you know, when
we did when Hotel Rwanda screened at the Toronto Film Festival,
the guy who I played and his wife sat right
(21:52):
next to me during this pressure.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, lots of pressure, lots of pressure.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
So that's you know, it's great to have them as
a resource, and it's great to have them there to
be able to check with. And you know, when I
played the Goat, when I did you know Rebound? He
was there. Earl Manigat was there. So it's again it's great,
but it is it can be intimidating.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Right, You've worn many hats, like you said earlier, and
you have also a multi time Grammy Award winner.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Ten years ago you started next to jay Z in
the Run trailer. Can you talk about that experience?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
It was brief, but we had a good time.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
We shot a little like improv video where we were
playing poker and just like we're just improv It doesn't
really show up a lot and you don't hit hear
it in the video it's all the song. But yeah,
there's a whole scene that we just improvd and and
we're messing around with and it was fun to do.
It's fun to do.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
And Kendrick, yes, does that mean you paid attention to
like the battles? I know you like hip hop? So
were you paying attention to?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
How could you not pay it? Under a rock?
Speaker 1 (23:00):
What happened?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
No attention was paid? And you know, to talk about
acting like when we shot that video, Kendrick was so
like with it, you know what I mean? He was
so like between takes, you know, and in our part
of the video. He's handcuffed to the table and he's,
(23:21):
you know, doing his whole stuff and cuffs and we'd
cut and they would go to take the handcuffs off
and he'd be like, Noah in character, and he's in character.
He stayed in them the whole video. I was like,
does he know that he doesn't.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
He's in the cameras.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
He's like no, he's dead, like really committed. And I
had wanted him. He was something that I had thought
about casting in my movie that I did miles ahead
and have him played the role of Junior, and we
talked about it for a long time and he was
ultimately he said, I don't think I'm ready to do that,
and I'm kind of working on a project right now
and I kind of don't want to, like I have
(23:55):
to see that through, and I also don't want to
come in here halfway. And I'm like, no, I get it.
And it was to Pimp a Butterfly. I was like,
I think you made the right choice on that one.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Oh, that's commendable because somebody would be like, let me
pause my album because that's a huge wow. I can't
even imagine that.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
But that's what I'm saying. He's that kind of a dude.
And he had called me up one day and he's like, you,
what are you doing? And I kind of took a
screenshot of when I was writing the movie and I
had all these three by five cards laid out on
the counter and he's like what is that? Like, Oh,
I'm just trying to figure out what scenes go where
and how to organize that. And he's like, why would
you do that? And we were on the phone for
(24:29):
an hour with him just so curious and so inquisitive
about the writing process and how it works and how
do you prepare this and why would you move that
scene there? I was like, Wow, this dude's just a
curious He's just a very curious dude. Yeah. I did
kindrink a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Oh and then we were talking about how you really
do get into these roles. And even after you did
Hotel Rwanda, you were very involved in making sure that
you were active when it came to Darfur and everything.
So tell me about the impact that movie had on
you and why you were so intentional after that and
still continue to make sure you bring attention.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well, that that was something that it wasn't a plan.
You know, I didn't go into it with when I
took the movie, I didn't. I didn't know anything about
what had happened. Wanted and I saw a Frontline documentary
which is amazing about it and you know, tragic and
really really sad. But that was the first I became
interested in it. And then after the movie came out,
(25:23):
we were approached by a bunch of congressmen, Democrats and
Republicans and they were getting ready to go on a codel.
Congressional delegation was getting ready to go to darfour or not.
They couldn't get into darfour, but they were going to
go to they were going to go to Chad. They
were going to meet with the African Union to try
to bring attention and awareness. And we did a screening
(25:46):
at MGM and they said, we're going to go on
this codel. Would do you want to go with us?
I was like yeah, you know, so on the way over,
you know, they briefed me about everything that was happening.
I brought another guy, John Prendergast, who I co wrote
a book with, and Uh and Paul Recess Beginning, who
I play in the in Hotel Rwanda. We all went
(26:07):
UH on this congressional delegation and then when they left,
we stayed behind and we were actually UH able to
with the African Union. We snuck into Darfur through Chad.
We snuck into Sudan and saw one of these villages
and saw the aftermath of that, and went to a
refugee camp, and just having that experience, you just become
(26:29):
sensitized in a way that is different than just hearing
about it. No, meeting survivors of the genocide, talking to
people on the ground who have experienced at firsthand, meeting
with these NGOs who have committed their lives and dedicated
their lives to to bringing awareness and trying to stop this.
You personally not every and and and it's not I
(26:50):
don't think it's everyone's responsibility. I'm not saying like how
could you not? I'm going I could not.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
You could not.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
After I walked away be like, well, I got this
platform and I have all this way I think to
raise awareness and attention, but now I'm not going to
do that. I was like, how what can I do?
What can we do? And how can we become involved
to try to stem the tide? And we did a
lot of different things. You know, we tried a lot
of things, and for a moment, it looked as if
there was going to be you know, there was a ceasefire,
(27:17):
it's looking like there was going to be another civil war.
But right now you look at the continent and you
see what's not the country the country now and it's
it's devolved pretty dramatically. It's it's really bad. There's a
huge humanitarian crisis there that that at levels that we
saw before, you know, not more than even before when
it looked like it was when the genocide was happening.
(27:39):
So it's it's really one of those things where you
take two steps forward and take three steps back and
you have to, you know, continue to double down and
try to keep doing what we're doing. Thank you for
asking because it gives me the opportunity to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Again, right, No, I appreciate that, and and like you said,
everybody is not responsible to do that, but I feel like,
how could you not when you have an opportunity to
see something like that and then say what is my
responsibility as a human being? You know? And then the
movie Crash, of course that was a phenomenal movie, but
that was something that you also came on to produce, right, Yeah,
(28:10):
it was first producer. You're the first producer anyway.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Bobby Moresco was Paul's close friend and he was also
produced it and Paul produced it.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
As well, and you were. But you were the first
actor to sign on, so that really helped everybody else
kind of get on board too. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, I went. Yeah, I went around the country and
talked to folks and grab people and you.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Know, did you really you really physically went Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
So you got Luda, Chris in.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
There, Chris and Terrence.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah, now hear you and Terrence Howard I was here,
was flawless in this fight night by the way out.
As soon as he came on the screen, I was like,
I like.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
That here, Yeah, a white Barbie do you had a
nice yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Pressed, But yeah, so that was an important story, you
felt like, well stories to be able to tell.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Well, I just that was purely from an artistic standpoint.
I read the I read the script and I was like, Wow,
it's rare that I read a script and I'm like,
I wouldn't change it, you know, I'm like, this is great.
I saw people were really upset with that movie. I
think that in some ways maybe didn't take it as
(29:16):
it was. It was an allegory to me. It wasn't
supposed to be seen as literal as much as it
was a bunch of what ifs, right, you know, because
of course all these storylines overlap and intersect, and you know,
life doesn't work like that. But in this instance, I
thought it was really, you know, a compelling story. And yeah,
Paul and I went around to studio after studio after
(29:39):
studio trying to raise the money for that, and yeah,
part of what I did was try to talk to
actors and get them to say.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yes, you think Hollywood is better now than it was
when it has to be better than when you first started.
In what regard as far as I getting we're getting
their respect that, you know, because I would feel like danteto.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Oh you mean for me personally, well, okay, yeah, let's
look at it. What's the bucket?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I feel like it's a Danceeto can make a call.
You don't have to audition for anything.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
No but that. But but I think it's you know, conversely,
harder to find the kinds of projects that I want
to do, okay, you know, and to even if you
do find the kind of project to actually get it
over the finish line. It's very difficult right now. I
think Hollywood is quote unquote Hollywood writ large is suffering,
(30:30):
and you can see that in how these you know,
legacy studios are. You know, I think Warner Brothers wrote
down nine billion dollars in losses this year and then
Paramount came out and they're nine billion behind. I mean,
there's you're going to see like three studios in the future.
There's gonna be like, you know, two places or three
places to make movies. And the movies that they're gonna
(30:50):
make are gonna be these tent pole, four quadrant huge
movies because they have to try to get their money back.
So they're taking many, many fewer shots than they used
to take, and it's hard to find the money. And this,
of course streamers completely changed the game. Yeah, it's happening everywhere.
(31:12):
And if like again, if you could have seen around
a corner, you would been able to see this coming.
And it's harder and harder for artists of all walks
to to to to find ways and places and finances
and opportunities to get these important or not even important
because that's a medicine word. But to get these special
(31:34):
you know, authentic to them and sort of particular things made,
because it's hard to make the argument to somebody who's
going to be paying for it, how they're going to
get their money out of it.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
We were talking about Francis for a Coppola and how
he did Mechalabolis and he he borrowed a hundred million
dollars against his wine company to get it done. But
it made like between five and seven million dollars exactly
the first week in the box office.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
And that's what I'm saying. So and they will point
to that as a reason to not ever do that again.
So everything is in the rear view mirror, like what
is it done for me lately? You know, how did
it do in the past, And people are always trying
to chase that thing that worked before, and we know
that that's rarely, if ever, how anything original and interesting
gets made. You know, it's it gets you know, if
(32:20):
people are trying to just you know, replicate what's come before,
it's just going to be a bunch of the same
kind of stuff we've seen. And you guys know, we
all know as consumers, there's that that there's a zillion
things out there, but how many things are you like
dying to look at?
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Well, Marvel's usually a short shot, right I was going
to say, is it difficult because you're part of one
of the highest grossing movies of all time?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I am difficult in one way.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Difficult because it's like other non comic based movies might
not necessarily get the same sort of appreciation.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Or absolute variety. It's difficult for Marvel too, quote unquote.
I mean it's like, look, I think it's not easy
for anyone right now in this business, given what has
happened and post COVID post strikes, you know, pre what's
happening in this election post everyone trying to figure out
how the money is going to cut, who's gonna get what.
(33:10):
Every studio kind of messed itself up trying to chase Netflix.
Netflix is the only one that's crushed it, and it's
still crushing it and figured all that stuff out. And
there's a lot of tap dancing right now happening. There's
a lot of uncertainty and layoffs, and you know, it's sweaty,
(33:33):
and it's sweaty in Hollywood right now for sure, and
not just because of that tape.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Don Teto has to go, but you this was such
a blessing to have you here today, honestly, Like, and.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Where's the so I thought it was. I thought there
was like some money it's supposed to happen.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yes, the check is in the mail.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I hate that.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Actually, Kevin Hart has it. But make sure you guys
watch Fighting Out. It is amazing, amazing series. When I
tell you, when I first started watching it, that's definitely
a binge worthy show to get into. And it's got
its funny moments. It's got you on the edge of
(34:10):
your seat Taji. I mean that moment where she had
to yeah, man, oh that's all I have to say,
you know exactly. You gotta watch it if you haven't
watched it. But I feel like people are into and
shout out to Bill Packer too.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Shout out to Will Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I love the work that he does and he's so
supportive of other creatives as well, And I think that's
a safe place for people to feel like I can
work with Bill Packer and feel good like on set.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah, he put it down this for sure. On this one.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
On set must have been so much fun. I can't
even imagine what this might be real? All right, well anyway,
but Angela dono thank you.
What's up? His way up with the Angela Yee I'm
Angela Yee beat I is guest hosting with me, you
know what. He usually leaves before the interview, but don
Cheeto's here, and he asked me so nicely, he said,
do you mind if I stick around for don Cheto?
But when I tell you this, whole entire flor is
so excited and so am.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I prepared to be very disappointed.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Now listen, and I can see the background with stand
up comedy.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
A little hey man, you know, got to keep them
laughing right the way they just don't stay focused on
other stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Well, listen. I did have a chance to watch the
first five episodes. Oh cool, A fight night. Fascinating story, Yeah,
really interesting, you know, one that so many people have
never heard of.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I mean, I guess it's not surprising that they haven't
heard of it, given you know how our history kind
of goes and gets overlooked sometimes. But yeah, really interesting
story about Muhammad Ali's first comeback after he was a
conscience just objector to the war. And it's nineteen seventies,
so he'd been out a fight game for three years
and the senator in Atlanta was able to find a
(01:07):
loophole in the law and get him a fight in
Atlanta when Atlanta was really starting to become like Chocolate City,
you know, really starting to become this burgeoning mecca for
black people to kind of find their way as entrepreneurs
and all these other you know, business models that they
were able to create and vehicles for themselves at that time.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, they had stripped him of his license, so he
really couldn't fight anywhere exactly. It's interesting, and I know
you come from there to I went to go see
Home on Broadway, and you know, the subject of Home
is he refused to fight in the war and ended
up having to go to jail, right, And people sometimes
look at that as you die, as the draft and X,
Y and Z. Some people really don't believe in a war.
How do you fight for awarded you don't believe in absolutely?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I mean not that soldiers don't do it every day, right,
but to really sacrifice what he sacrificed and put it
all on the line, and really you know, not just
put his money whereas but put his reputation. He risked everything.
There was no promise that he was going to be
able to come back, you know, what I mean, And
for a lot of people in the country at that time,
(02:08):
he was a pariah. They were like, just like you said,
they're like, this dude's a draft dodger. This guy doesn't
he's not a patriot. But you know the other side
of that coin is that that's the height of patriotism,
right in some ways, standing up for your principles and
really fighting for what you believe is the better idea
of what your country should be and what they should
be doing, and when they're not be willing to risk everything.
(02:31):
I mean, he did something that very few people would do.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Right. Absolutely, you go, you try to just be stationed
somewhere where you don't have to necessarily. But you know,
you're right about that. And we also don't think about
the sacrifice that that takes because the media looks at
it and people will talk about you like you are
the worst person because you don't you're not patriotic and
you don't want to represent your country. But watching this,
it certainly shows me also that I didn't even realize
(02:56):
how black people weren't supportive of Muhammad Ali during that time.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I mean, and my character is you know J. D.
Hudson that I play is from a different era. You know,
he's a throwback in many ways, and it does bring
into question what it actually means, you know, And I
think again, right now, we're in a real moment where
we're going, are y'all patriots? Like you know, all these
people standing up and talk about there being patriots, It's like, really,
(03:22):
I don't know. I think it's it's time to redefine
what that means and actually look at that in terms
of uh, when you when you hold your country or
you hold your leaders to a higher level of responsibility,
and you know, this is this is what this moment
is about. You know, who is the real patriot the
person that just shows up and salutes and says yes
(03:44):
sir and gets in line no matter what's going on,
or somebody who goes, no, my country has to be
better than that. We have to be we have to
be better in that. And I recuse myself from you know,
standing up and coming to the line as Ali did
when I think they're acting in a way that's not
in the interest of the citizens.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
And you've been he's been very vocal too about talking
about politics. That's all you're talking about Trump, And when
you talk about Trump in a negative way when I
tell you they come for you.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, yeah, come on, I mean, yeah, come on.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I always say it's so important who doesn't like you,
just as important it is as who does like you. Absolutely,
and so certain people I'm like, good, stay over there,
don't like me, don't for me, I don't.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Well that's the best. Yeah, that's that's one of the
best things about this moment is that you actually get
to see who everybody is. You know, It's like, okay, cool,
let your freak flag fly. I want to know who
you are. I want to understand when I go over
there that I'm p and G. I'm persona on grouded
for you. So yeah, just be just let's let's be
real about it. I'm not I'm not worried about that
at this moment. It's it's so much more important that
(04:40):
we do what we have to do and and come
together and push back on you know, I think this
is really a vote for democracy. This is really a
vote for are we going to buckle under to authoritarianism
or are we going to try to do something for
the country?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Beat that I got to put you on blast because
he said he didn't know who he wanted.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
To for Yeah, I tried not to.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So much misinformation.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I know it's a lot of misinformation right now.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
So it's like, I don't know what side of defense
I should you know, right, well, I'll tell.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
You it's right.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, But sometimes you know, there's so much out there,
and I think that Donald Trump does a great job
of making things seem true that's not true, and just
saying things like their facts even though they're not. And
people believe what they want to believe too. You can
choose to believe what's not real, right, and that's a choice.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I think it's about your feelings. And look, he's doing
something that is directly out of the mind comp playbook.
I mean, if you say a lie, of the bigger
the lie, and the more times you repeat it, the
more that it can can you know, be persuasive. And
he's on the mic and he's a he's P. T.
Barnum and you know, we've we have not seen someone
(05:50):
like this in the political arena to this degree, and
clearly we're not equipped and able to respond in some ways.
And I think it is true that with all of
the different places that you can go and kind of
have your a la carte news experience that you don't
have to listen to opposing views and you don't have
(06:11):
to do your research. You can just point to one
source and go see that's what they're saying. Yeah, yeah,
And I think really this is you know, it's more
it's as much about feelings as it is about facts
right now, especially for the people who are like if
your feelings. It's like, I've never seen more people in
their feelings and if your feelings people in my life
(06:33):
stop it. You know, this is really about like how
people connect emotionally in some ways. To you don't want
that cognitive dissonance. You don't want to be feeling like
this is the truth. But this doesn't make me feel good,
So let me just go to what makes me feel good.
And I'm just gonna ride with that. And people are like,
this dude's funny. He's like he breaks the mold. He's
(06:54):
not your regular everyday politician. He's like, you know, he's
a tough guy. It's like any of those tricks if
you break them down and go but really, how like
but really how not just just making a statement. I'm like, really,
show me how he's a good businessman? Literally, show me that.
Please show me how he's not. In multiple ways. Everyone
can show you how he's not. Show me, name one
(07:15):
policy that he's enacted that has done anything for you
that's actually going to be progressive and help you in
your in your life. It's like, well, we were doing
better under him. He was able to bring in something
that was already happening before him and ride on the
wave of that.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Those texts that got signed that wasn't him, He didn't.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
But what a brilliant thing he did is like hold
he held it up, yeah, until he could sign them.
That's brilliant. I mean, it's diabolically brilliant. But it's like
those kinds of things over and over again to me
tell you the character of who this dude is, and
I just you know, and what happened with the Supreme Court,
which I kind of blamed the Democrats for, It's like,
how did we let that happen? So I think there's
(07:57):
just if you dig into it and you really granular
about what's happening, I don't think there's I think there's
a delta between the two choices and it's not even close.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
And sometimes playing by the rules is what really hurts
you because I feel like democrats can play by the
rules a whole lot, and then people who break the
rules and do what they want, they'll get certain results
a lot faster, but it's not done even the legal
way a lot of times.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Absolutely, And that's what we think have seen more than
anything during this term, is that it's not about what
you will do and if it's quote unquote right or wrong,
it's like what will the consequence be? And I think
that something else that Donald Trump was very a student
doing was you know, testing the fence everywhere and exploited
(08:42):
all of these sort of weaknesses in the system and
places that we were unequipped to deal with because we
never imagined they would be.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Challenged, like we needed a law to make sure.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, we didn't know that we needed to have a
law that said, if you're a convicted fella, you cannot
be the president. That's not a law. He could be
con they didn't go to jail and serve from a
prison cent for prison cell. That's actually the law in
this country. So again, yes, nobody ever thought that we
would have to say anything like that. But that's something
that I mean, and it's not just him. Look, you know,
he's this is this has been in play since the
(09:15):
think tanks happen. You know, this is you know, Dick
Cheney is still around, these guys that you know, we're
under Nixon. We're seeing things that are coming to fruition
that put in play a long time ago. So I
just hope that people will get informed, not sort of
equalize these choices as if they're too they're too equally weighted.
(09:39):
This isn't really This democracy is in play right now
for real and real and real in the real world.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Thank you, go.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Ahead talking about character, talk about the role you're playing
in this film.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Nice see yeah right, I mean, okay, well I'll go nice.
It's still nice.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
One of the first black detectives or the first black
detective in Atlanta, I think.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
One of the one of the first black detectives is
probably true.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
How'd you prepare for it?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Crack? Yeah, just I mean you can go through to
do acting exercise and research and all that, but if
you really want to break some stuff open, you gotta
get crazy. No, you know, there's a lot of research
about this guy. Uh, there's you can see video of
him being interviewed, and there's just a lot of research
(10:28):
about the police department at that time, and uh, the
first before he was a detective, he was you know,
he was he wasn't the first class of officers that
became officers police officers just in general, and then matriculated
moved his way up to becoming a detective. But yeah,
that that period of time, those his his descendants still
(10:49):
are around, you know. So, and we also had this
podcast to go off of that was yeah, I hear,
it was really it's really a great one. And that's
you know that, Plus the script that Shane wrote really
kind of gave us most of what we were going from.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I feel like you love a true story. I think
everybody kind of always more fascinating. I feel like then
a lot of times fiction true stories are like what
this really happens?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And again, to be one hundred, I'm gonna say, based
on a truth story, yeah, you have to because there's
poetic license we take everywhere. Always when you're doing these things,
characters get you know, combined, other things are omitted, things
take place at places that they didn't take place. But
the spirit of it, the truth of it, not the
facts of it, is clearly in here and it is
(11:39):
what it is, and it's based on yeah, this true story,
and absolutely I think it's always more fascinating because things
happen in real life. As we know that if you
saw in the script, I mean, let's go back to it.
If Trump existed in a script, they'd be like, dude,
take it down, that's too much.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
You also love an accent man.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Sometimes sometimes I hate it those oceans and preferred I
don't know about perfect. Thank you for saying yeah, it's
always that. That's that's a grind. It's something that's been
you know, but it's part and parcel of the character.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
It's hard for anybody, I think when you have to
put on I think Will Smith, like everybody's had, you know,
people who are like that was great or not. I
remember when the Bob Marley movie came out, people were
very concerned.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, but I mean it's it's challenging. Some people can
do it very easily. Some people have a real facility
for it. It's not easy for me. And it's something
that you know, when you're in your trailer going over
words and people are outside clowning around, You're like, dang,
I have to do this final I just do it
as me.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
So Ocean's fourteen is happening. It feels like, I mean,
I can find hearing conversations about.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
It and nobody called me.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
How could they not, though, I mean, how could they not?
How can they not do it or not call you
if they're doing it. I mean, that's impossible, is it?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
We need basheer.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that we've seen
everything happen. I imagine if it's happening, they're going to
call me for sure, but I don't. I don't know
that it's happening. I just think it's been a lot
of talk.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So yeah, a lot of talk about the script is
ready and they've been working on it. But you like
it though, right? You would? You would be willing?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yes, I mean I mean it would depend you know
what I mean. Like I almost wasn't in the second
one because, uh, interesting story, the timing of it on
paper at the time is going to be a direct
conflict with Hotel Rwanda.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Oh, Hotelwanda's classic, And I was like, there's no way
I'm going to do Ocean's twelve over Hotel over Hotel Rwanda,
So if I'm sorry, And then Brad playing the character
Achilles in the movie that he did tore his Achilles
and it pushed the movie eight weeks, which was the
(14:00):
window that I was able to do Oceans to How
crazy is that? All the times that you probably have
roles that you really wanted to do but timing wise
you couldn't. You know, that has to hurt sometimes when
you're like, man, I want to do it, but.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I mean, I'm gonna say honestly, I I'm sure that happens.
But I've rarely been in that situation. I've been very
fortunate and blessed in every word you want to use
to have the opportunity to do most of the things
that I've I've wanted to do in some ways they've
come together and you know, I've just been really blessed
in that way. But it doesn't always It always looks
(14:32):
easier than Like when when I was doing Hotel Rwanda
the first day, what was it lunch? And my agent
called me and he's like, how's it going. I'm like, oh,
it's great. He's like you, how are the is everything good?
The house? Yeah, with the kids are good, and the
kids are in school, they're good, doing everything's good. He's like, Okay,
I just want to let you know there's no money
in escrow for the movie. What are you talking about it.
(14:55):
He's like, there's no money in escrow for the movie.
So right now you're you're out. You're out there for free.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
WHOA, that's a scary situation.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah. I was like, so what does that mean? He's like,
I don't know. He goes, I don't know what it means.
It means if you stay out there. It's like I
can send you tickets and you can come home. It's like,
my kids are in I put my kids in school there.
You know that I'm out here with the three hundred
people in a production and a crew. It's like he's like,
I'm just telling you there's no money. I said, so
what's going to happen? He's like, well, Alex, who is
our producer at the time, He's like he's just going
(15:26):
to start putting it on his credit card and hope
that this waterfall, all these different waterfalls whenever you produce.
So often when you make an independent or a low
budget movie like that. I don't even know what the
budget was on Hotel Rount It maybe eight and a half,
maybe ten and a half. It wasn't that much, and
it went further in South Africa where we were filming it.
But there's all this waterfall of money that has to happen.
(15:47):
Like I'd say, we're all producers on it. It's like, well,
once Angel's money comes in and Don's money will come
in and beat outs money. It's like, but everybody's waiting
to be the second person to put their money.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
In, right, and sometimes sometimes people pull out.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, well it's happened on my movie. I had a
producer five weeks before the movie say like, I think
I have a million dollars too much exposure Like that
mean he's like, I'm taking a million dollars out of
the movie. Now when you have an eight point five
million dollar budget, that's significant.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah that's almost that's smart than Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah, that's a week. That's you got to figure out
locations and maybe not parts you can people can't put
people in parts, and got to lose days on things,
and so it's it's really like, I mean, that's why
it's a miracle anything gets made outside the studio system.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
It's still you think today though, because yeah, you think
it's worse it because I was going to say, with
technology and not having to have like you know how
they used to have to have the filming was different
and digitizing things, I would think in a way that
could make it easier, but no easier for who financially.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Well, No, look, I think that's the scary part about AI, right,
it'll be easier for them to put us in things
that you know, they don't have to pay us to
be there, and they don't have to, like, you know,
spend that capital on physical human beings. And they're also
using AI now to do schedules and to do boards
and to do you know, days and breakdowns and scripts
(17:10):
and all that stuff. They're taking the jobs away from
Those are all people that used to do those jobs.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I saw.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
They'll lay people off, but then bring in a whole
new department for AI and spend money in that space.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Unlet's oppose on is that a black jobs? AI jobs
or black jobs?
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Let's go great seeing you and Sam Jack in person again.
This is the second time you guys are on screen.
How was that chemistry?
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Like, it's great, Sam and I have a great time.
You know, he comes from a similar background theater actor,
you know, takes it really seriously and very collaborative and
down to play and find stuff, and that's kind of
how I work. So I've known Sam Sam for a
long time and we've been hoping to be able to
(17:52):
do something that had something, and it was nice to
be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Kevin Hart, really Kevin Heart, I don't know. He did
an amazing job here. I do want to say that,
oh that short dude, Yeah yeah, sure he is short. Yeah,
but he did an amazing job. I just want to
But I can't even imagine what this was like with
you guys on camera together.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
It was every day, every day, every day.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Lori Harvey's in the in the series as well. I mean,
how was it for you, like as far as having
people around you, because it's all different levels of acting
you know, around you, and like you said, you do
come from theater, so does Samuel L. Jackson. But then
you have you know, people like Chloe Bailey who's newer
added and Lori Harvey. Yeah, so how is that like
(18:36):
on set? Are you giving advice to the yo? I mean,
because you're also a director, so that could be something
really helpful to have you Like in the second job.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I mean, I've I've worn every hat you know, the
director written, and I think that that's good when you
can be additive, and you can you can be helpful.
And I try to be full service and not just
be like, just take care of myself and my own
performance and my thing. You have to do that, that's
job one. But you know, if you have the ability
(19:08):
to see around a corner and understand that, oh, this
is something that would be helped if we did this
or that or move this this way, you know, and
then you know you mentioned Sam again, dude who's steeped
in the game, and Taraji too, Terrence to the right,
you know. So there's a lot of years and when
we're all pulling in the same direction and trying to
(19:28):
accomplish the same things, then it's it's helpful and it's
it's necessary because you never have enough time, you know,
you never have all the resources you need, and you
can be an impediment to the process if you sit
on your heels or you know, just make it me, me, me,
And that was not what this experience was at all. Everybody,
(19:48):
like I said, was was on board with the story
and wanted to really get the best out of it.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
My character.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I'm on one side of you've seen the first five.
I'm like on one side of the show for most
of the show, and it's not until the fifth or
sixth episode I think when it's I kind of start
to even meet those other characters, right, So that that
was a whole you know, it was kind of happened
in two parts. For me.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
There was some really key parts in here where that
I loved that you had. For instance, like when you
found out you had to protect Muhammad Ali and then
there was a moment when he was fighting and you
were like yes. I was like, finally, this is Muhammad Ali.
Because it seemed like at first you didn't even want
that job. So why was that a job that would
have been considered something that was like beneath what you do?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Well, it's not what he was. That's how how does
that get you on your path to being a detective?
You know? How is that actually police work? I think
for JD police make security exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
You have to go to the fight, yeah, bring out
with Muhammad Ali.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, but that ain't what he That's not what his
character ever was in it for He really had, you know,
a path that he was trying to be on and
taking this detour to make sure that this guy doesn't
get assaulted, which also looks like a sucker play for him.
It's like the amount of death threats that he had
and the amount of hatred that was around him. He's like, now,
(21:13):
what happens if this dude gets shot on my watch?
Now I'm like demoted for a thing I didn't even
want to do. You know, so, I think from JD's perspective,
this was not you know, this was a sidestep at best,
and even some in some ways of demotion.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Okay, what does j D's family think about your role?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I have not talked to him, but no one's showed
up with a you know. Well, look, there's a lot
of As you said, I've done this a lot. I've
played real life characters and I've had you know, when
we did when Hotel Rwanda screened at the Toronto Film Festival,
the guy who I played and his wife sat right
(21:52):
next to me during this pressure.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, lots of pressure, lots of pressure.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
So that's you know, it's great to have them as
a resource, and it's great to have them there to
be able to check with. And you know, when I
played the Goat, when I did you know Rebound? He
was there. Earl Manigat was there. So it's again it's great,
but it is it can be intimidating.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Right, You've worn many hats, like you said earlier, and
you have also a multi time Grammy Award winner.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Ten years ago you started next to jay Z in
the Run trailer. Can you talk about that experience?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
It was brief, but we had a good time.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
We shot a little like improv video where we were
playing poker and just like we're just improv It doesn't
really show up a lot and you don't hit hear
it in the video it's all the song. But yeah,
there's a whole scene that we just improvd and and
we're messing around with and it was fun to do.
It's fun to do.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
And Kendrick, yes, does that mean you paid attention to
like the battles? I know you like hip hop? So
were you paying attention to?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
How could you not pay it? Under a rock?
Speaker 1 (23:00):
What happened?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
No attention was paid? And you know, to talk about
acting like when we shot that video, Kendrick was so
like with it, you know what I mean? He was
so like between takes, you know, and in our part
of the video. He's handcuffed to the table and he's,
(23:21):
you know, doing his whole stuff and cuffs and we'd
cut and they would go to take the handcuffs off
and he'd be like, Noah in character, and he's in character.
He stayed in them the whole video. I was like,
does he know that he doesn't.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
He's in the cameras.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
He's like no, he's dead, like really committed. And I
had wanted him. He was something that I had thought
about casting in my movie that I did miles ahead
and have him played the role of Junior, and we
talked about it for a long time and he was
ultimately he said, I don't think I'm ready to do that,
and I'm kind of working on a project right now
and I kind of don't want to, like I have
(23:55):
to see that through, and I also don't want to
come in here halfway. And I'm like, no, I get it.
And it was to Pimp a Butterfly. I was like,
I think you made the right choice on that one.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Oh, that's commendable because somebody would be like, let me
pause my album because that's a huge wow. I can't
even imagine that.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
But that's what I'm saying. He's that kind of a dude.
And he had called me up one day and he's like, you,
what are you doing? And I kind of took a
screenshot of when I was writing the movie and I
had all these three by five cards laid out on
the counter and he's like what is that? Like, Oh,
I'm just trying to figure out what scenes go where
and how to organize that. And he's like, why would
you do that? And we were on the phone for
(24:29):
an hour with him just so curious and so inquisitive
about the writing process and how it works and how
do you prepare this and why would you move that
scene there? I was like, Wow, this dude's just a
curious He's just a very curious dude. Yeah. I did
kindrink a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Oh and then we were talking about how you really
do get into these roles. And even after you did
Hotel Rwanda, you were very involved in making sure that
you were active when it came to Darfur and everything.
So tell me about the impact that movie had on
you and why you were so intentional after that and
still continue to make sure you bring attention.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well, that that was something that it wasn't a plan.
You know, I didn't go into it with when I
took the movie, I didn't. I didn't know anything about
what had happened. Wanted and I saw a Frontline documentary
which is amazing about it and you know, tragic and
really really sad. But that was the first I became
interested in it. And then after the movie came out,
(25:23):
we were approached by a bunch of congressmen, Democrats and
Republicans and they were getting ready to go on a codel.
Congressional delegation was getting ready to go to darfour or not.
They couldn't get into darfour, but they were going to
go to they were going to go to Chad. They
were going to meet with the African Union to try
to bring attention and awareness. And we did a screening
(25:46):
at MGM and they said, we're going to go on
this codel. Would do you want to go with us?
I was like yeah, you know, so on the way over,
you know, they briefed me about everything that was happening.
I brought another guy, John Prendergast, who I co wrote
a book with, and Uh and Paul Recess Beginning, who
I play in the in Hotel Rwanda. We all went
(26:07):
UH on this congressional delegation and then when they left,
we stayed behind and we were actually UH able to
with the African Union. We snuck into Darfur through Chad.
We snuck into Sudan and saw one of these villages
and saw the aftermath of that, and went to a
refugee camp, and just having that experience, you just become
(26:29):
sensitized in a way that is different than just hearing
about it. No, meeting survivors of the genocide, talking to
people on the ground who have experienced at firsthand, meeting
with these NGOs who have committed their lives and dedicated
their lives to to bringing awareness and trying to stop this.
You personally not every and and and it's not I
(26:50):
don't think it's everyone's responsibility. I'm not saying like how
could you not? I'm going I could not.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
You could not.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
After I walked away be like, well, I got this
platform and I have all this way I think to
raise awareness and attention, but now I'm not going to
do that. I was like, how what can I do?
What can we do? And how can we become involved
to try to stem the tide? And we did a
lot of different things. You know, we tried a lot
of things, and for a moment, it looked as if
there was going to be you know, there was a ceasefire,
(27:17):
it's looking like there was going to be another civil war.
But right now you look at the continent and you
see what's not the country the country now and it's
it's devolved pretty dramatically. It's it's really bad. There's a
huge humanitarian crisis there that that at levels that we
saw before, you know, not more than even before when
it looked like it was when the genocide was happening.
(27:39):
So it's it's really one of those things where you
take two steps forward and take three steps back and
you have to, you know, continue to double down and
try to keep doing what we're doing. Thank you for
asking because it gives me the opportunity to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Again, right, No, I appreciate that, and and like you said,
everybody is not responsible to do that, but I feel like,
how could you not when you have an opportunity to
see something like that and then say what is my
responsibility as a human being? You know? And then the
movie Crash, of course that was a phenomenal movie, but
that was something that you also came on to produce, right, Yeah,
(28:10):
it was first producer. You're the first producer anyway.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Bobby Moresco was Paul's close friend and he was also
produced it and Paul produced it.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
As well, and you were. But you were the first
actor to sign on, so that really helped everybody else
kind of get on board too. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, I went. Yeah, I went around the country and
talked to folks and grab people and you.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Know, did you really you really physically went Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
So you got Luda, Chris in.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
There, Chris and Terrence.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah, now hear you and Terrence Howard I was here,
was flawless in this fight night by the way out.
As soon as he came on the screen, I was like,
I like.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
That here, Yeah, a white Barbie do you had a
nice yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Pressed, But yeah, so that was an important story, you
felt like, well stories to be able to tell.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Well, I just that was purely from an artistic standpoint.
I read the I read the script and I was like, Wow,
it's rare that I read a script and I'm like,
I wouldn't change it, you know, I'm like, this is great.
I saw people were really upset with that movie. I
think that in some ways maybe didn't take it as
(29:16):
it was. It was an allegory to me. It wasn't
supposed to be seen as literal as much as it
was a bunch of what ifs, right, you know, because
of course all these storylines overlap and intersect, and you know,
life doesn't work like that. But in this instance, I
thought it was really, you know, a compelling story. And yeah,
Paul and I went around to studio after studio after
(29:39):
studio trying to raise the money for that, and yeah,
part of what I did was try to talk to
actors and get them to say.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yes, you think Hollywood is better now than it was
when it has to be better than when you first started.
In what regard as far as I getting we're getting
their respect that, you know, because I would feel like danteto.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Oh you mean for me personally, well, okay, yeah, let's
look at it. What's the bucket?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I feel like it's a Danceeto can make a call.
You don't have to audition for anything.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
No but that. But but I think it's you know, conversely,
harder to find the kinds of projects that I want
to do, okay, you know, and to even if you
do find the kind of project to actually get it
over the finish line. It's very difficult right now. I
think Hollywood is quote unquote Hollywood writ large is suffering,
(30:30):
and you can see that in how these you know,
legacy studios are. You know, I think Warner Brothers wrote
down nine billion dollars in losses this year and then
Paramount came out and they're nine billion behind. I mean,
there's you're going to see like three studios in the future.
There's gonna be like, you know, two places or three
places to make movies. And the movies that they're gonna
(30:50):
make are gonna be these tent pole, four quadrant huge
movies because they have to try to get their money back.
So they're taking many, many fewer shots than they used
to take, and it's hard to find the money. And this,
of course streamers completely changed the game. Yeah, it's happening everywhere.
(31:12):
And if like again, if you could have seen around
a corner, you would been able to see this coming.
And it's harder and harder for artists of all walks
to to to to find ways and places and finances
and opportunities to get these important or not even important
because that's a medicine word. But to get these special
(31:34):
you know, authentic to them and sort of particular things made,
because it's hard to make the argument to somebody who's
going to be paying for it, how they're going to
get their money out of it.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
We were talking about Francis for a Coppola and how
he did Mechalabolis and he he borrowed a hundred million
dollars against his wine company to get it done. But
it made like between five and seven million dollars exactly
the first week in the box office.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
And that's what I'm saying. So and they will point
to that as a reason to not ever do that again.
So everything is in the rear view mirror, like what
is it done for me lately? You know, how did
it do in the past, And people are always trying
to chase that thing that worked before, and we know
that that's rarely, if ever, how anything original and interesting
gets made. You know, it's it gets you know, if
(32:20):
people are trying to just you know, replicate what's come before,
it's just going to be a bunch of the same
kind of stuff we've seen. And you guys know, we
all know as consumers, there's that that there's a zillion
things out there, but how many things are you like
dying to look at?
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Well, Marvel's usually a short shot, right I was going
to say, is it difficult because you're part of one
of the highest grossing movies of all time?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I am difficult in one way.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Difficult because it's like other non comic based movies might
not necessarily get the same sort of appreciation.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Or absolute variety. It's difficult for Marvel too, quote unquote.
I mean it's like, look, I think it's not easy
for anyone right now in this business, given what has
happened and post COVID post strikes, you know, pre what's
happening in this election post everyone trying to figure out
how the money is going to cut, who's gonna get what.
(33:10):
Every studio kind of messed itself up trying to chase Netflix.
Netflix is the only one that's crushed it, and it's
still crushing it and figured all that stuff out. And
there's a lot of tap dancing right now happening. There's
a lot of uncertainty and layoffs, and you know, it's sweaty,
(33:33):
and it's sweaty in Hollywood right now for sure, and
not just because of that tape.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Don Teto has to go, but you this was such
a blessing to have you here today, honestly, Like, and.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Where's the so I thought it was. I thought there
was like some money it's supposed to happen.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yes, the check is in the mail.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I hate that.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Actually, Kevin Hart has it. But make sure you guys
watch Fighting Out. It is amazing, amazing series. When I
tell you, when I first started watching it, that's definitely
a binge worthy show to get into. And it's got
its funny moments. It's got you on the edge of
(34:10):
your seat Taji. I mean that moment where she had
to yeah, man, oh that's all I have to say,
you know exactly. You gotta watch it if you haven't
watched it. But I feel like people are into and
shout out to Bill Packer too.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Shout out to Will Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I love the work that he does and he's so
supportive of other creatives as well, And I think that's
a safe place for people to feel like I can
work with Bill Packer and feel good like on set.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah, he put it down this for sure. On this one.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
On set must have been so much fun. I can't
even imagine what this might be real? All right, well anyway,
but Angela dono thank you.
Way Up With Angela Yee News
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Angela Yee
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