WUWY INTERVIEW: Wallo Opens Up About Betrayal, Grooming, Hospitalization, Inmate Dating Profiles + More

Wallo Opens Up About Betrayal, Grooming, Hospitalization, Inmate Dating Profiles + More

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
What's up.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
It's way up with Angela yee, and we got Philly
in the building all the way around in here. Gigi
is guesting on this interview because she loves her some
Wallow period. Yes, but Wallow's in the building too, and
your book, armed with good intentions is out.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
I read the whole book already, Yes, honestly.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
Is that how you feel about it?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
It was a definitely, first of all, well done, like
the way that you tell the story of how everything happened.
I think we know you Wallow, and we get to
see a lot of you on you know, a million
dollars worth of game and in interviews, but this was
like a different type of more introspective because it's different
when it's like, you know a lot of jokes, and
I know you and Gilly have a lot of jokes.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
But then to read a book.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Like this to understand what made you who you are,
that was I think really eye opening for anybody who
wants to read this.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
I honestly read the whole thing straight through.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Thank you, damn. That was good. I'm glad it caught
you court you, that grabbed you enough to say let
me keep going.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, because a lot of stuff like I knew certain things,
but reading everything in chronological order. Yeah, just to sit
down and see, Okay, this is where it all started
to be introduced to your family members, to understand why
you made certain decisions that you made, to understand, you know,
being in juvenile then going to jail, going to prison,
how that formed you. And also how the system works,

(01:21):
because I know you're involved with Reform Alliance as a
CMO over there as well, and I can see why
somebody like you who's been in that position is somebody
that can really relate to helping people because I think
a lot of people that talk about prison reform and
all of that, a lot of them haven't been in
the system, so they don't understand it.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
You got a lot of people out here as far
as politicians.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Politicians and people in general that you got some people
trying to actately trying to help black people. Don't like
black people be disconnected from the culture. But sometimes it
be a money play and to be a cloud play, right,
So you got to be real careful sometime, you know
what I mean, Because like you know, we always talk
about we need helping aid by acting like they're coming
to help us and they not. It's real deep, you
know what I'm saying. And you can't say you're trying

(02:05):
to help something that you don't mess with, right, yeah,
and you're not connected to Like I think it's a
lot of times in the black culture, they think rappers,
entertainers and athletes they don't represent Black people at the bottom.
They not all representative. So I just think a lot
of times the white folks don't understand that, and they
give money and donate money to all these all these people.
They don't They don't come and kick it with us

(02:26):
at the bottom. They don't kick it with the people.
And I'm out there. I deal with the people. I
deal with the real people at the bottom that you
know in the bottom dictate the top. And I don't
think we understand it in the culture, but we forget that,
and a lot of artists forget that. It's like Brook,
you're not popping to the hoods here you popping. Then
once the hoods here you popping, you get popping. You
start to act like you don't know the hood no more, right,
and then you go corny. They go corny at the

(02:47):
white because when the hoods, how fucking with you as.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Corny because people always act like once you make it,
don't you got to leave the hood, and like don't
go back, something like I can't.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
Port the hood, you can support the hood. Some people do.
A lot of people that think like that they never
was from the hood. I just think a lot of
people and a lot of people really don't care about
the hood. They don't care about the people because they
never was. They never felt as though they was a
part of the people. So you got I just think
a lot of times when we look at this ship,
we be having a lot of people that they be
thinking that represent us. They don't. They they never was

(03:17):
with us, you know. And then you got a lot
of people that and are culture when you come up
and you was corny or something. I'm just being realistic,
you know, when you're corny y'all women know how it is.
Do corny get money? Then they hate everybody They mad
now because down they feelings like, yeah, I can pay.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Back now, reinvent themselves.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
I think, yeah, you was corny your whole life, right,
you could have been got.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Money to move to another city.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah you got some money now and now you just.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
The money story is about how you know, you're just you're.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Him behind the money, but you're still corny. So it's deep.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
People from your hometown know what it really is.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yeah, it get real crazy, but you know it's just
like this book right here is just to show people. Man, listen, man,
I don't only was on with good contentions, but I
never gave up. I could have came out of prison
saying oh that's over for me. Oh I'm a victim.
I was in jail, the white men. I ain't do
none of that shit, right. I came out here and
turned it up on them.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
And I think also people from the outside looking in,
like you came home for nine months.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
And then ended up going right back.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yeah that was the first time.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, the first time.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
But you know, people from the outside would be like, oh,
he's so stupid, why would he do that? But even
when you're leaving, it like see you again soon, because
they talk about recidivism, but it's also decision making and
like learning certain things. You know, they act like prison
is supposed to be a place that rehabilitates.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
And oh, you got to rehabilitate yourself. They ain't doing
I'm just saying I'm on the block. It's fine. And
people on the block is we're sharing two counselors, like
rehabilitate what you go to a program that just cycling
these programs you go to and it's like, okay, you're
going to a program, like how many? Like what really
gonna help you? Like, how the fuck that's really gonna help? You?
Go to program? Out of the twenty years you do.

(04:48):
You might go to the program for ten weeks, then
you go to another program for ten weeks. You might
do five programs in that twenty year time. Like it's
about you. It's really a U game, but it is
not just jail. When you come home, like I tell
people the bigges, the most scariest day at prison of
the day. You come on right, I come home, right,
I'm come home one of y'all, ladies. I got a
kid about one of y'all. As soon as I come home,

(05:09):
you're putting pressure.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
On me because you got to take care of that.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
As a black woman, your whole thing is like, all right,
my man, you ain't come home and step up. You
better figure something out and get a package, do something.
So now you got this, You got this pressure up.
Unless you got to understanding child's mother. You in trouble
from the day one, because now you got to deal
with that. Do you got to deal with the fact of, Oh,
everything I said I was before this, I gotta beat that.

(05:32):
Now everything I told you when I was on a
phone call. So you and my daughter let him come home.
Daddy going chill. I'm telling you know some baby, I'm
telling you want my family back. I want my family back.
But I'm telling him I'm a different dude. You got to
come home and be that you never was that before.
And it's like, now you come home and booboo, how
at you? And black? And they're like, yo, let's get
it man, we got you know, I gotta move. And
you're like, it's pressure because you because his whole thing

(05:53):
is he looking at you. You didn't involve you're registered nurse.
Now you got your body done. You look at good.
You live in a suburbs herbs and I'm like, damn,
I can't. You like I can't. And you're like, damn,
I want her back and you to live with your moms.
She's like, no, then you ain't coming up living up here.
You gotta get some paper. That pressure is something else.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Well besides that, I want to say, you know, because
first of all, it's a guilty pleasure.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
But I love watching Love after lock Up.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
Oh no, let's listen. Let me play something to you.
Let me play something to you. I'm gonna put you down.
I'm gonna put you down, so so listen, so listen,
so listen. I'm in the joint. Right, you got several websites, right,
Gil killed me about this, So you got you got.
You had inmate dot com, you had friends beyond the wall.
You had me to prisoner dot com.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
I know that one.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
So you will take like thirty dollars, right, you'll take
thirty You get you. You gotta write your spill together.
You gotta get your buio together. You know you'll got
to buy you just sit down and if you ain't
built like that, like it was a couple of dudes
that come read and I used to write stuff for them.
I used to write letters, but sometimes I write a bio.
I used to sell bios. So you overhook your bio
up and then you'll take thirty five dollars off your account,
send it to these different spots. So now you got
you got you on you on these different platforms, and

(06:59):
women be going next thing. You know, the letters start coming. Yep.
I knew this old here. I knew this old here. Right.
He was old. He was like sixty something, right, So
he would pay a young boy want to work out boys,
pay you man conversations. You'll give me your pictures and
send me some pictures. He'll set up the profiles. Man.
He'd be man. Had a thousand women writing them, sending
any money and all good time, you'd be surprised the

(07:22):
prison visiting room be jumping, you know, because.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
I always wondered this too.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
I would tell anybody like and tell me if you
think this is true for a woman, if you're dating somebody, right,
and I know, like in your last year you met
somebody y'all kicking it. But I feel like things will
always change when you come home, like you never know,
not always, but a lot of times it's.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
Hard when you come home, especially if it's somebody that
you wasn't rocking with before before you went to prison,
because it's like you come home and you sitting there
you're thinking about you know, damn baby, my baby, I'm
telling you the world were going to the top. But
then you get out there, you see all these asses
out of the new dollars, all this new shit, especially
if you did some real time. You wasn't out here
for all these new bodies.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
So you come home be like a playgrounds.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
Oh shit, it's cool that you come up to visit
all the visit pitches, the snacks and zoom zooms and
wan wings. But now it's like, but you know, I
think everybody's story is different.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah it's not. That's a big risk, right.
And then because some people will say, well, he used me.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Would you would you do a bit with somebody that
you was to tell the truth? Would you do a bit?

Speaker 1 (08:18):
How long?

Speaker 3 (08:19):
What was too long before you start doing something? Before
you go get with baby Lake?

Speaker 1 (08:22):
It depends. It depends on how long we was together before.
It just depends you.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
Were you were together with somebody? Yeah for five years? Okay,
and he gotta go do a three year bit? You
warn him down?

Speaker 1 (08:32):
Is you not doing nothing three years?

Speaker 2 (08:34):
I could do that for three years, especially now I'd
be so busy. I'll be work working, No, I tell you,
it's not gonna happen. But I believe in honesty, you know,
And I still hold you down, like if you need something,
But I'll be like sorry a long time.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
And also what did he do?

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Let me expec you? All right, so listen, you gotta do.
He married you, put you in a big house, set
you up, eightything, cool, y'all going together. You find out
he was doing some embezzlement something something, but he did.
They think care you left you off right? You gotta
do seven years you're doing that bit with him.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
And I'm in a nice big house and I got
everything taken care of.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
You doing a bit.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Because you know once you.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
Would, you know, once he goes to jail, Baby Lake
looking for you, everybody looking for you.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Can I go and like we can still have conjugal
visits and everything depends on what state you in the FEDS.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
You can't do that.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
It would depend. Okay, So and you say no congrego
visits or nothing.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
Is you gonna go You're gonna go slide on you.
You're gonna go get with Baby Lake.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
I mean, if we was together all that time, I
think a guy as a man, wouldn't you assume that's
gonna happen anyway?

Speaker 3 (09:32):
Oh, I already know you're getting busy for listen, man,
because whether or not you do, he gonna think you are. Listen, listen,
let me tell you seven.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
God forbid, I'm sleeping. You call me not seven years.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
One of the most faithful days outside of my brother
and stuff and you know, family members dying is I
was dealing with this girl right she was going to
spellman right now. This is my girl on the streets.
I called her. Boy answer the phone. Wow, listen, listen,
I'm inside of it. I'm in side of the because
you when you're on the phone, where you take your sock,

(10:02):
because you put your sock over the phone, so it
be like clean, you put your sock on. I'm on
some cool ship. That motherfucker just some phone you. I'm like,
you're no, no, no, I heard that first. Then the operator,
come on, the operator, come on, you have a collect
call from so he's running down.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
So I'm like you could do so, I'm like.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
The love, I'm ready to pass out in the fore room.
I'm over the phone.

Speaker 4 (10:23):
Jo.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
I'm like, damn please, he got my baby, right, So listen,
he answered that joint click. Thank you for seeing this call.
He comes to YO, what's going on? Man? I'm like,
I ain't gonna say a name because I want to
say name. She's married. Now she's like a lawyer and
all this ship in Boston. I'm like, it's be there.
You're like, no, she ain't here right now. She went
to the store. Man, you want to believe a message
or something. So I'm like, why are you in this
dorm room? An, I'm like, damn taking a message. I'm like, damn,

(10:46):
I'm like so so so I'm like and I'm like,
I'm like so, I'm like, I'm like, like, like I
felt the tears coming down something. I'm like this, I'm hurting, right,
I'm hurting because listen, this is my first interaction with
this ship in jail. Everybody got to go through this, right.
So I'm like, damn. I'm like, all right, man, thank you, man,
appreciate call call any time. I'm like, call anytime. What

(11:07):
the fuck you think? I'm up? What she told you?
I'm a brother something. What's going on?

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Right?

Speaker 3 (11:10):
So I'm like, man, I went to the sale. Man,
I almost passed out. Man, it was a herd piece. Man,
Baby Lake had my check.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Man, Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
It was crazy.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
But there's nothing you could do about it. There's nothing
you could do to call back after that, like conversation.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
Oh you know, it's crazy. I had to because I
wanted to be player. So when I called it the
next time a couple of days ago later, she answered
the phone. He was cool, like, she ain't even talk
about it, did you? I ain't talking about I just
kept taking.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
A level today, my gys, cause you know, and you
even say this in the book, you talk about that,
like how what do you expect this woman to do?

Speaker 3 (11:46):
No, you can't, because that happened to me multiple times
going to jail. I can say this. One girl named Veronica,
Veronica Smith Ronnie. She was my join too, And you
know I was crazy because when you're in jail, you
get illusion. Yes, my girl, I wrote her every day
for a year, like every day I was writing. She
never wrote back, So I told her, hint, I'm telling something.
I'm in the juvenile jo. I'm like, you know what,

(12:07):
mom and the hold my letters. Man they hate come home.
Knock on her door day one to tell my man, whire,
just take me to the crib. He taking me up
to the crib. I'm like, yeah, I'm my baby. She
come out.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Shit.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
I'm like, damn, what's up baby? This that third she
told him something, Oh my god, wowy. I'm like, So,
she's like, let's walk down the street. I'm like, so
we walked down the street. She's like, I got it, man,
it's there. I'm like, damn, did you get my letter?
She's like yeah. I'm like, but I was in a situation.
I'm just like, I start punching in the ear, remember
like my man on Boys in her I was punching
in the ear and ship.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
It was her.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
It was heartbroken, like but I always was a dude
that was like, it was cool. It was just like, damn.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
I thought she was going to say she opened the
door and she was pregnant.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
No, it was like the same thing.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
He said, No, that's not the same thing. Pregnant is permanent,
Like well, unless it's not.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
But but she was already done. She never wrote back,
so it was cool.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, I think that's a hint. If I don't write
your back, and you know, you think of some magical
ship in jail will make up anything, right.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
I'm like her brother, her brother brother taking my letters.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
You know what's interesting.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
So there is a scenario you talk about in the
book to Brenda, and you were like thirteen years old
and she was almost thirty wow.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
No, No, I wasn't thirteen. I was seventeen.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
She was seventeen, okay, teen and all right, so all right,
but she had been grooming you pretty much.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
I ran up on her enough, you know, I ran
up on her and she was in the way. Really,
I ran up on it. She's in a store, and
then shot my shot and it.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Was on right.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
But while you were in jail, you realize at the
time it feelt like you lit. And this happens a
lot with young men. You know, you get with the
older women and you feel like you're the man. But
later on in life feel like, was I taking advantage
of Yeah? And when you think about that, now, how
do you think? How do you frame that in your head?

Speaker 3 (13:52):
You know what's crazy is wold and I was. I
was speaking at a at It was a couple of
years back. I was speaking at Charlamagne the health thing
he had, the mental health joint, and I spoke about
something I said, we don't talk about in our community,
and it's crazy and it's major in the black community, pedophilia. Right.
A lot of times it's usually the older black men
dealing with the younger women. In history, I'm talking about

(14:14):
like if you go all the way back to sixty seventy,
it was always like and the first time I witnessed it,
then I started reaching later on in life is when
I watched what love got to do with it and
how they passed team to turn it off. But that
been going on since the beginning of the time, because
when you look at a lot of our family members,
Grandpa was already like fifteen twenty years older than grandma's
and it's like that been going on. But that's something

(14:36):
that never get talked about, and a lot of women
experienced that on a high level in the communities, and
that's why it's a lot of trauma later on with
relationships and things because it's issues that never was dealt with.
They never spoke to nobody about it. Sometimes it got overlooked,
and then I think a lot of times in our
mind is encouraged. The amp might be like, girl, you
better go talk to him.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
He got money, oh he got a car, or he
got to the side. He buying us to the same thing.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
With you a young guy, You're like, damn you winning,
I got I'm the man.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
The teacher. Because guys always act like it's a fantasy.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, the teacher.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, to be with your teacher, and something's wrong with
you if you don't. Even if you hear some I'm
not going to name no rappids, but they've talked about
how they have their son, you know, sleeper to older
women and do things like that, and it is really
kind of like that's it could.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
Destroy you for life. It could mess you up because
you don't really know. You're thinking you're winning, sometimes you're losing.
Especially in our community, the women be taking it be
destroying a lot of the sisters, right, and because they
don't talk about a lot of them to talk about it,
but you hear it a lot.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
So now that I'm asking you, how did you frame that?

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Like when you think about it now today when you
were seventeen years old, she was thirty one years old, Like,
how do you think that affected you? Because you wrote
about it in the book, so it's got to be more.

Speaker 3 (15:49):
It was deep because I'm like, damn, what happened? Because
you don't know? And then I'm looking at it like
because and I think, what really made me think about it?
But it's like the girls that was my age, they
wasn't talking to us, They was talking.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
To the old the guys.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, So it was like, what the fuck was going
on in the community because it was like all the
girls that we liked, they wouldn't pay time.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
I was fifteen with a twenty four year old. You
had no business doing.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
It, you see what I'm saying. So it was like
it was just deep. It was deeper than and so
I was just trying to break down, like put it
out there. It's just like, yo, we gotta be more
on point with this, right, you know what I mean,
because it's going on like never before.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
I looked so young when I was fifteen sixteen. I
looked like a little baby when I was that age.
I remember my friend's older brother used to drive us
to school, and he definitely tell he bought me a
Valentine's Day present, but he was so like, he seemed
so old to me. I was like fourteen or fifteen,
and he had on a suit every day, and I
was like, Io, why would he even be trying to

(16:42):
talk to like a little young girl like myself.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
I just thought it was grol.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
I didn't even want to ride to school with them
anymore after that. It was so disgusting to me as
a kid.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah, but it's an issue we had to deal with
in the community.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Now listen, you were in the hospital and there's all
these different reasons why.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
Oh yeah, I got I got it, you got it.
So listen. Well, I'm gonna just say this. Gill said,
I was in the hospital because I got extended, right,
I got beefed up, right. I mean, now, I'm not
gonna I'm not gonna common Okay, all right, I'm gonna
just say, like, you know, that's that's you know, that's
you find.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Out it was any No, we can't find out.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
How you stand, you know, do the research, you know,
I mean, but it is how long.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Would that put a person down?

Speaker 2 (17:24):
I was I was about to say, just heavy healing
to whatever it was. You nothing, but you know how
that works. They they snipped the ligament this cap. I'll
explain it.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
I can't explain it.

Speaker 4 (17:34):
I well, there's well, to be honest, there's two different
types of surgery you can get. You can't get the
one where they snipped the snip and then they extend
they can put inside of you, so they pulled that out.
Then the other one is you know, somebody got one
I do, and then the other one is you. I
know somebody got the other one. Okay, the other one
is you get light bo and then they put the
fact they give you girl.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
No, you're forgetting the other one. It's a joint. Whereas
though you don't even need to do the lippo to
get you, gir they got something to get you shooting.
And they don't blow up like a like it'll blow
college and it blow up like a cannon blow. No,
you don't blow up like a soda can.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
My god, yeah, I would hate to see men on
flights on their knees with like hem, I can't put
my balls on breezy.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
Well, you look good and you look like you're you
look like you're feeling better, and that's the good time
to get the d d L.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Right before the book comes out, you know what I'm saying,
before for real? Right, you're going on to it.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
You want to be right. You know here you aren't
limping and nothing.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
You don't look sick, so so the recovery is off
standing A great doctor.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
I think you're joking with you.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
He's a great doctor.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
That's she's a great Wow.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
Okay, she's a great doctor. I guess you probably don't
want to wouldn't matter for men operated.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
Man, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (18:50):
I'm here for all elective surgery, y'all. You know, I
don't got the problem laying on the table, right, and
I support you in your journey start.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
So you wouldn't mind a man getting light bo and
nothing like I was with a man in.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
Head like yeah, she said she was for somebody that
got suxtended.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
So he got that. Oh he did the light but one. Okay,
he did a whole lot. Let's just say that, like
fool body. Now listen.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Obviously you and your cousin Gilly always have jokes on
each other. What did he say when he read this book?

Speaker 3 (19:18):
Uh? He listened to the audio version because we was.
He was in the studio with me just hearing it.
You know what I mean. It's you know, he one
thing about cous cousin knows the story already, so it's
nothing new to him, and he know more of the
story than you know what I mean. So it's like
he just it's just regular to him because it's our
story and the ship that we talk about. Even outside

(19:38):
of social media, we just be in our own world,
zoning out.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
I know he's proud of you.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Though, Oh, without a doubt, that's my biggest he put
the biggest pushing he that's my biggest cheerleader right there.
I love. Give me a w.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Now, were there's some things that you're like, this might
be too much to put in the book because there's
some very graphics stories about.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
The jail, story about the drugs in the butt.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah it's me.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
It's not. Let's be clear everybody who reads it.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
There was no drugs, crazy shit you got.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
But honestly that made me.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
I had to put it down for a minute. I
want to be clear now, I had to put the
book down for a minute when it came. Yeah, no,
it was very deep, Paul. It's honestly off of though,
because I know a lot of times like people would
say jail. It's not like you think, you know, because
people will always think like, oh, you went to jail,
that means you definitely was.

Speaker 3 (20:34):
Like, like, you know, you know what's crazy? You know
what's crazy about jail, Like when you get you know,
you know, you be on the streets, it's some dangerous ship.
But when you get to jail and you really see
that ship. And he asked you where you want your
body sent? And all that type of ship. It gets
real immediately. I don't care who you was on the streets.
It's the unknown because now you ain't got no gun.

(20:54):
You ain't got and you don't know who's on the
other side of that wall. When you're going to the
assessment and they're sitting there taking your bitols and they
talking to you, and he asked me about your address
and that way you want your body since shit is like.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Just I might not make it out of you.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
The fuck is going on back there right and you're
sitting there waiting to go upstairs and you got to
get to your cell or whatever. Is it get real scary?

Speaker 2 (21:17):
You know, Solitary confinement is a big topic today. I've
been there, and that's what I want to ask you about,
because you know here in New York they don't have
solitary confinement, but they do have something where they might
have to separate you if you are a danger to everybody,
Like how.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Do you see in protective custody?

Speaker 2 (21:35):
I want to know what you think about solitary confinement
and what you think should be happening in situations where
maybe it is a situation where somebody does pose a
danger to other inmates or to even the CEOs or yeah,
so what do you think should happen in that situation.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
It's deep because when I was I wasn't greatest for
a penitentiary. That was like one of the that's the
biggest penitentiary in Pennsylvania. When I went to the hole
because I went to the hole for cell phones. Other
than that, I never went to the whole. I spent
six months in the whole.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
Six months for the cell phones, six.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
Months for the cell phone. That's the street No, no, no,
that's that's.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Major in there because it's not like you were hurting anyone.

Speaker 3 (22:11):
No, I spent six months for that, plus I got
a street case. But what happened is when I went
to the the wing where the hole is at, where
they had a hole at is death row like and
greats for a prison. So you see the dudes in
the death row cages and stuff like that, because it's
like doll cages you're going to for like when you
go when you go to your yard, you only get
out hour. You get to either go to the yard.

(22:33):
Sometimes it depends on the guard. They say you're going
to the yard. This show what you're doing. Wow, you
so you'll be in the joint. And I never forget
it was this one brother that was there and he
wasn't on death roll, but he was in the hole
for like fifteen years.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
That's crazy, that's really, that's beyond it.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
And he was like the type of dude whereas though
you had to be real mindful the way you talk
to him through the gate, because he might be on
the gate. See I might be talking to somebody on
the gate. He'd get on there and get in the
conversation and start saying all type of shit and you
got to back down sometimes because this dude was a
master chemical warfare. When I say chemical warfare, this dude
the ship in the shit in like a lotion bottle. Shit, piss,

(23:10):
Come all that shit in a lotion bottle. Let it
sit in the cell and just wait. He's spray a guard.
He'll spray you. And when he spray this shit, it's
a smell that you never smelled in the history of life.
And the like the whole wing up, the whole prison wing.
So you'll had to be mad. You had to throw
them like like when he coming out sometimes when you're
going out and if you gotta walk past his cell,

(23:31):
like because you shackled up to go to the shower whatever,
you gotta like wrap your face up because you don't
know if he don't like it. So it was deep.
It was deep, and it was like if the guard
come in there, I got to distract somebody from the cell.
I'll put you in the chair. It's this chair where
they cuff you to the chair and they put a
mask on you, so you want to spit and you
just be sitting in the chair like this basically like
your boxes and that's it. And it just like like

(23:53):
if they got to pull you out of their cell,
they're going through it with you about something or if
you don't want to come out the yard, if youn't
want to come out of the shower. And when they
had come on a tier there spray if they spray
thatt mace, that shit go through the events. So you'll
be sitting there, You'll be sitting there away for that
shit that the fan out had your mask going. So
it's real deep. It get deep in there because you
got to think about it. You just in there, can't

(24:14):
call your peoples and none of that shit. You better
hope somebody that get.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
On the phone can you think he was like that before.
You think he became like that because it was in
solitary confinement for so long.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
I think a lot of times you adapt to the environment.
That's a part of that environment and the culture of
solitary confinement. It's a mental game. A lot of people
don't make it out on the other side. And then
you got people with all type of mental issues, people
on psychotrophic medication. Some people that got to the psychotroph
and medication didn't get there because they really had issues.
They got there trying to get high. Okay, so they'd

(24:46):
go to the cycle. Oh I can't sleep. So now
when you go to the site and say you can't sleep,
they give you all these type of pills to help
you sleep. But you don't even know they them goofy
pills right next thing. Next thing, you know, you got
somebody that you knew your whole life walking by on yard.
Don't even identify you. I didn't. I didn't have situations
with that like that with me, whereas do I'll see home, like, yo,
what's up? They look walking to you? They did stare

(25:09):
they be done us? Get them drugs? Is deep?

Speaker 1 (25:12):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (25:13):
You know people always like look at where you are today, right, Like,
it's amazing to see the success that you've had and
you should be very in such a short time that,
you know, you should be honestly, like really proud of
everything that you've accomplished. You know, in spite of all
the people who might not have ever thought you would
be here. Teachers, you know, family members, people in the neighborhoods, judges, yeah, everybody.

(25:38):
Some some would say, well, if you didn't go through this,
she wouldn't be here today.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
But what are your thoughts when I.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Think that too?

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (25:46):
I think, uh, you know your stories, your glory. You
got to go through that to learn certain things. You know,
everybody in here, you probably won't be where you was
at if you ain't go through your life. Your life
is your life and it's designed for you. I just
think that's that's what is really about going through it
and through that through you know your journey, You learn things,
you take a lot of l's, you learn from the l's,

(26:08):
you get back up and you keep going.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
So what were you saying with the Okay, so being
in jail, you got your ged. That was a positive,
that was a major. Yeah, maybe you wouldn't have done
that you were able to be.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
In the library. I want to gain, you want to
cary it at all.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
So there were some things that you feel like if
you can take advantage of it, then you can benefit
from from that. Because you needed to sit down. You
didn't need to sit down because you was. And one
thing you're very.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Honest about in this book is that you were a follower.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, and that's kind of what landed you where you are,
And that's probably the situation with a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
No, I think on the street game, everybody's a follower.
You ain't invent the streets. You ain't have been selling dope,
You ain't invent shoot, you ain't invent none of this shit.
You're following the culture that was laid down as a
foundation for you from your environment and your neighborhood. Ain't
nobody no leader out there, leader or what everybody answered
to somebody in some type of way. And you didn't create.

(26:59):
You didn't create no new shit. You ain't create the
cell phone. You create. You went out there commedic committed,
you know, you going out there committing crimes in your community,
bringing your fucking community down. What is you leaving everybody's
all following. But it's hard, like we live in in
the black culture, being vulnerable. And that's why I always
be me and I let people see it. I don't
try to hide it because I think that's what we

(27:19):
missing in the community, We missing being human. I think
everybody want to be tough. Everybody masking is bullshit. They
scared to somebody gonna see who they really are. They
don't even matter, just be you, and I think that's
where it comes from. I think the what you call it,
the defense mechanism is killing people. Everybody got a defense

(27:41):
on when it's like it's so it's so much move
or soothing and relaxing to just be you and say
fuck it.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
I wish more people understood because it's a journey to
get to that too.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
I mean, I think people have to go through things
also to even know who they are, because sometimes you don't.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
It's like everybody in the beginning, everybody who they think
I was talking to. Uh, there's a couple of youngins
that I talked to. I know the dads, we grew
up together. Some of the dads dead on the penitentiary.
And when I get with him and talk to him,
just kicking it with him. Did ship they be saying,
I'd be like, y'all crazy man, because I'll be like, yo,
like if you if you don't let her walk by,
don't say nothing. You're trying to look for our instagram.

(28:20):
Tell us she looks good, say something to her. Like
everybody like afraid like.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Compliments is like, well, people do feel like I don't
want to. It depends on where you are, too, Like
in the workplace, people can't say that you.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Just walking in the shape regular regular.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
Like everybody afraid to compliment people like we just sw
up to everybody uptight for whatever, motherfuck up tight you
go past your page, won't like your picture just because,
don't you know what funny We were.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
With her the other day.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
She came to angela y day and she had posted
on her page a video of how this girl kept
looking at her and she's like, she looking at me
like this I'm looking at her, and then she said
the woman was like, I love your hair, but you know,
automatically when somebody's looking at you, Huh, didn't you ever
had on? No, she I don't know that day, but
her hair is nice and big, and I don't know
when I don't know when she somebody was looking at her,

(29:07):
but you know she has a beautiful, big curly hair.
But it's too Sometimes people are looking at you and
you automatically assume and you put.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
The defense up. I think I think it's I think
social media made it so made people so defensive because
it seemed like everybody critical, especially especially if you won.
Our culture, the black culture is the most critical, and
they more they only it seemed like it seemed like
it's more they more critical when you win.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Let me tell you I put so I went live.
I was a little to sy at my house.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Now I got a Brownstone in Brooklyn, which is, you know,
my second one, but yeah it is in Brownstones in
Brooklyn are.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Not second one. But anyway, it was a full gut rehab.
So I was live. I didn't like keep the video up.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
I just was like showing off a little bit of
the paintings I had in my living room because I'm
excited about that, Like I've been collecting art for years
nowhout out to my grandma Shanda and who kind of
helps me with that, and my girl Ingrid. So anyway,
this web live, I say always like post people's lives
that may not have been posted, and I only saw
a couple of and then I was like, let me

(30:12):
not even look at this. But people was like criticizing
my house. It's not even done. It's like a fogut rehab.
So it's probably not going to be fully done for
like another who knows, six months or whatever. But people
were like, I'm like, do y'all understand You're not gonna
make me feel bad about.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Let me tell you. I wanted to fight them people
in the comments. I was like, there's no way in
life I will ever. Number one, you got to feel
bad about that.

Speaker 3 (30:38):
You got to activate your fuck it button right just
number one and number two is one thing about the
black culture. I'm speaking about us. I can't speak about
one thing about us that I understand and and you know,
you deal with it. When a black see a black win,
the black win, it needify a lot of people that
didn't win. It ain't do that. They ain't do nothing that.

(31:00):
That notification is hard. That's a notification nobody want to open.
And that's shit hard to deal with because when I'm
looking at you like or if you come from the
same environ as me, your mom and your dad, struggled
like mins you. You was on section eight like me.
You was on welfare like me, and you fucking made
it and I didn't. Now I got to look myself
in the mirror, have a real conversation that I'm not
ready to have. So that win a lot of time

(31:21):
on social media. That's how you got time to be
so critical about me. What button that I fucking pushed
in you? I just had to a notification.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
But I was like, there's no way I feel bad
about this.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
I love my better not I was like, imagine trying
to make somebody feel bad that it was wild? But
you know what I want to ask you, because Michael
made those comments about the black community, and people were
very divided on how they felt about him, saying, you know,
black people are so critical of each other and he
and that community in particular.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
Some people were saying wrong messenger.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
You know a lot of times it's the messenger.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
What did you think about those kind.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Of Oh, you know, I know Mike. I know Mike personally,
and I know Mike. You know the thing about Mike,
I tell you, I'm gonna just tell you a story
about Mike. When Meek got sentenced that day, and he
got and we was in the courtroom. We go back
to you know, the judge and they're snapping, so we
take a take a recess. Mike go in the back
like what's going on here? Like I'm just looking at him.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Like he has no idea this what goes on?

Speaker 3 (32:18):
Right? He was so enraged and so shocked. He was
like why is she talk what's going on? Why is
that it's just normal? Like and there was so much
that he didn't understand how the course system go for
us as black people in America that he flipped out.
So we walked back in the courtroom. He stepped up
to talk for me and the judge like blew him
off and all this shit. He was like, he didn't
even do it, like what's going on? Like he could?

(32:40):
He was shocked. He left and he and he made
a commitment that they to set it off, and he did.
From that moment I'm talking about it was like it
was like five minutes, not even five minutes, and him
just seeing how it took place for us. So a
lot of times people have good intentions of what they
what they want to say, but sometimes am with good intentions,
it's just it's just certain messages got to be heard

(33:02):
from different people in order for people for to be
receptive about it.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
Get it.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
But one thing I know about him, I seen him
show up, right, showed up.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
He showed up a lot about it. So he would
tell you like, I didn't know this was happening until
I met meek Man.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
No, No, I was dear, I don't know what everybody
hear shit. I was in the court room that day
with me. Mike was there. I seen what happened. He
came to ask, he asking us, like, what's going on?
I said, Mike, listen, let me plain this how this
should always go right. This is the story of our life.
And he vowed to do something about it. He built
you know, they built reform with him and him meeting

(33:34):
what's name, and the shit popped off and it helped
a lot of people. So that's what it is. You
see what I'm saying. But you know this is being
messenger right, and it's all to be a lot.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Of times listen.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
And then obviously recently fifty cent was on a million
dollars worth of game because of all kinds of responses
and controversy of no comments.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
I just interviewed, I just interviewed people I don't know about.
I don't know nothing about it.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
What do you think about I was saying earlier, I
was like, no matter what fifty cent could do, like
ten interviews, and there's always going to be great moments,
you know, and all of them because he does. I
feel like a lot of times he dictates kind of
where the conversation flows to.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
He's really good at that.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
Like like with me, my main goal when I'm sitting
down with anybody, especially of you as as as heavy
as him, I'm going in near working for the audience.
It's not about me. I'm working for the people back home.
I'm working for the people that want to know. And
so I'm I'm gonna always ask, I'm gonna keep pushing.
I got to ask you a bunch of questions that's

(34:36):
gonna give up information. And we got a lot of information.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
And Tyese.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Reesea is something yeah, I have, I mean had some
really monumental things happen on million dollars worth of game.
Why do you think that people open up so much
on that platform and tell because.

Speaker 3 (34:53):
When you get with us, you around the way, it
ain't you like they already know how me and Gil rolling.
It ain't no shit, it ain't sugar coating, and we
not like the traditional platform. We just us and we
kick it. And some of these people that y'all see
as what we kicked, they call us and we facetiming
us and we laughing about regular ship all the time.

(35:13):
So when you come and get with us, we're platform
whereas the like not not like most of these other
platforms where it's just free to be you. You just
be be yourself.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
You know, people really thought with strippers after you guys
came on and joked about it.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
And shaping you know, both of you, both of you.

Speaker 3 (35:33):
I had a couple of nights. I had a couple
I had a couple of nights, you know, but I
ain't you know, I ain't keep going, but you know,
it is what it is.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
It was like literally people would come up to me
and be like, yeah, you know, there used to be strippers.
I'm like, first of all, that was in the past,
and it's nothing.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Wrong with that.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yes it is off the hook.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
Was off the hook for me.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
So how do you feel now? I'm a good intentions.
I know this is not your first book, but.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
This this is my first day this is my real book.
This is one. The other ones was independing I put.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Out, but this is the big one, right yea, because
I had the other one too, so this is the
big one, all right.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
So how was it for you? Even like revisiting?

Speaker 2 (36:11):
I know you talk about this and like you said,
you give a lot of yourself, you know when you
tell your stories. But now this is like condensed in
one book. How was it for you going through the
whole process of writing?

Speaker 3 (36:22):
It was good, you know, just having you know, I
had a great writer, Raquel da Zeus. She helped me
with the book. Yes, yes, you know what I mean.
I had shout out to her, shout out to Aana
Bands and who did the forward I saw that. Shout
out to Jonathan Million, shout out to Simon Shuston Galla
the book thirteen eight for making this possible. You know.
It's a good process, you know, and especially when you

(36:44):
do the audio book, it's just like I'm laughing at
so much stuff because it's like I'm a crazy you know.
And then want my grandma she sees to see the
craziest thing. That's when I give it to Nanny. So
the first copies I gave it to Nanny, and Nanny
says she read it and like a night. Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
I plan on reading it as soon as.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
Nanny said you was a bad ass. I knew you
did a lot of stuff, boy, but she was telling
you from the beginning. Nanny. Nanny always was like, you know,
and to see how she'd be ninety September thirty of
shout out to Nanny. You know, it was just like,
it's just a good feeling. But the audiobook, y'all gonna
love that.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Oh my gosh, I can't even imagine what it's going
to be like hearing you rearing your voice.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
But you was wow though, because listen, I just was like.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Mask on.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
No, you know why, because I didn't listen. Let me
explain something to you about when I know, growing up,
I just was out there running around living it was crazy.
I didn't give a I didn't give a so, so
imagine on this side while make it happen so much
because I don't give a fo.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
You know what though, being to being able to disconnect
from how you back then, you were able to disconnect
yourself from what you were doing right and the fact
that like a woman could be screaming, yelling, but in
your head you're like, I'm not going to shoot her.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
I'm not going to kill her. It's no big deal.
It's not her money.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Like all the excuses that people make for why they
do certain things, acting like Okay, well I'm robbing the store,
but it ain't that money.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
What are they so mad at me?

Speaker 3 (38:08):
It is the impact of crime. Like see impact on
crime and I ain't gonna front this one class I
tak in jail. This shit was. Impact on crime is
the impact that it had, not just for the person
that you're committing the crime, their family when they hear
about what happened, your family, the community. So it is
deep no matter how you try to word it. Crime
is crime, long is wrong, right is right.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
That's interesting.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
My girl, Topeka Sam, she was up here and she
was talking about when she went to jail, and she
was saying how she really felt like she hadn't done
anything wrong until she met somebody who was born addicted
to drugs because her mom was taking drugs and you know,
she was helping drug dealers like you know, transport, and

(38:51):
she was like at that point, I was like, let
me just sit here and do my time because you
don't realize that you did something.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
You don't make every excuse, no, no, anybody.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
One thing about me. I was a time machine. I
did my time. I ain't doing no complaining in the wind.
And that's why why you think, you know in our community,
a lot of dudes, come on, man, I ain't come
on man.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
You came happy.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
It's own. It's lovely out here. I never was because
I couldn't blame nobody. I just I made. I made
the decision to do the dumb ship I was doing.
It ain't nobody fault. If you ain't send me no money,
you ain't visiting me, there ain't your fault. I'm gonna
do this time, and I'm gonna come home and I'm
gonna live.

Speaker 4 (39:25):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
And now you've got a tour for this book, and
I can't just imagine. First of all, I know this
is gonna be super lit because everybody's gonna come out.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
To see you.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
I want to tell y'all how hard it was to
get a while to come up here. You're so buckd
and busy all the time.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
But I'm up here with I mean, listen, listen, Oh no, no, actually,
I'm ready gonna I'm gonna do a couple of residency
and the magic mic when they got me herelined they
got me herelined there. Ever since, Yeah, they're gonna have
me hairline there residency in Vegas, So come out and
check me out. I mean, so we can see me there.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
But everything starts in the Bronx with you're gonna be.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
You won't be in the Bronx at the Data book
drops September tenth. We're going to be in New York City,
So I don't care what barrow you from. Get to
the Bronx where hip hop started, and we're going to
you know, some new stuff going to start that day.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
No, I'm definitely honored to be able to be on
that kickoff and the Bronx in New York City, to
be able to sit down and talk to you about
your book arms with good intentions when I tell you
an amazing read for anybody, like just really great, really
well told, and.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
You know, I'm very honest.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
If you to be able to share this with us
and talk to me a little bit about working with
Reform Alliance to as the CMO, I just want to
know what that means to you, because I think it's
a perfect fit for them.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
Well, you know, it's just like you know, you can't
teach what you don't know. You can't leave where you
don't go. You can't have a person.

Speaker 4 (40:42):
You know.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
I'm a person that that's from this. I'm a person
that did the time. I'm a person that's connected to
the issue. I'm a person that's right there with the
people that's affected, like in real time. I remember I
even did stuff with a Probation and parole in Philadelphia
before where so I help over like four hundred people
get reinstated. They was on a run and I did

(41:04):
a call one time, shout out to Pastor Whaller, shout
out the Christian Stevens from the Pennsylvania Parole Board, shout
out to the district attorney and the phill up your courses.
In twenty eighteen when we did this, and what happened
was they got with me. They was like, listen, while
though I know it sounds crazy, but we want people
to turn themselves in and we're gonna let him walk
out of this church. Pastor Waller said. Shout out to him.

(41:27):
He said, We're not doing this. If y'are any funny business,
we shutting this down. He got a big, big church
in Philadelphia, and I got on social media and I
got four hundred people to come down there and turn
themself in. And it was crazy because because I'm outside,
I'm outside, right, I'm like, y put my I said,
don't put my wrap on the line like you bad.

(41:48):
You got boys pulled up kill me. No, I ain't
worry about getting so. So I'm down there right, I'm
down there right. And this this was this years ago.
This is what the pennsylvani pril. So I'm down there right,
and uh, boys pulling up, ruled down the window, wallow man,
what's up with this ship? Minute? And I'll be but
I said, I tell them certain cases, right, I broke
the cases there so they'll pull up. You know. I

(42:09):
got to keep going enough, just keeping you, just keep
for you, the same for you, this same for you
and just.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
But but but it was like but like certain people
is pulling up and he was like, NA, we got you.
You good.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
Yeah, But it's like, you know, it's not just that
I gotta my non profit Wallow two six seven Foundation,
where I'm be helping provide resources. Did you and our
fenders when they come out of jail.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Right because you because it's what you needed.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
Yeah, because like you know, you know, your nephew come home,
your little cousin come home, he come home. Like in
a lot of times in these juvenile facilities, then that
they be playing games.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
And I'm going to do too much.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
They don't have no real resources teaching them real education,
teaching them technology, teaching them, you know, getting them job experience,
getting them real stuff, like getting them a.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Code, because a lot of times those kids are so smart,
but they're just using their intelligence.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
And I just that and I always believe in like
because I was just telling them a videography. I was like, damn,
I got to do a program in Philly Wars though.
I get like one hundred kids and get them and
get some coaches that could teach them how to make games.
Because our children, our kids, they know how to play
the game, they know how to master the game, so
they need to know how to make the game.

Speaker 4 (43:10):
Right.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
Fuck all that y'all know how much money y'all spending
on these games with cousins and nephews and little kids.
They're sitting there, they'll go crazy, So why are we
not making no games?

Speaker 1 (43:18):
Right? And even think about yourself.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
How you at that time you were reading and education
was below the level that you were supposed to be on.
But now look at the super intelligence that you had,
it just wasn't being activated.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
Yeah, and even now we got to be real careful
because a lot of these school districts they I'm talking about,
they passing kids just to be passing kids. No kids
left behind. And it's like hold up, put up, hold up,
you're making them dumb like that, Yeah, because you know
you're seeing grades, You're like, hold up.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Then that used to be like a dam Yeah, how
did you get it? I don't want to deal with
this anymore?

Speaker 2 (43:47):
And they also know they get certain benefits and financial
support when they are able to passing.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
Yeah, when they passing, it be fake. And and then
next you know, a kid twenty one you can't even read.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Teach cursive writing in school?

Speaker 4 (44:00):
What?

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Yeah, they don't teach kids how to write Chris, you
don't remember that. One football.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
There was a sports guy, I don't know football, basketball.
He was signing a contract and he said sign here,
and he like, what you mean signed? And like write
your name? He like how like he didn't even know
how to write his.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
Name and crazy. Yeah, you don't need to know how
to do long division enough anymore. Listen.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
And lastly, I want to talk about another thing that
happens in the book Rick who worked with you a lot,
you know, and it feels like he was a great
influence for you as well. But he asked you do
you love your mom? And I remember flashing back even
to before that, where you were wondering where was your
mother when all of this was happening, but also learning
how to be able to if you want forgiveness, to

(44:46):
also forgive me.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
We're doing the best that they can.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
One thing about our community is this, this is important
and I and I and it tapped into me one time.
It was his young young brother in Philly. He was
a twin and he was so angry, was like, my
pop ready to come home. I don't want to deal
with what do I do? While in that moment I
told him, I said, listen, you got to be patient
with your dad. A lot of us in the hood,
we don't understand a lot of our parents had us

(45:09):
as kids. So it was kids trying to raise the kids.
When for real, for real nanny, the grandmam's is the
one that really raised us, and a lot of us
had to disconnect with our parents based upon they were
still trying to figure out life themselves. So you know
what I mean, That that right there let me know
that like I love Jaqueline, people's my mom. I love
her to death, And it was like I grew to
understand it wasn't her, it was you know, her figuring

(45:31):
out life, her living life. And I think that that's
what really helped my heart heal and helped me be
like damn, because a lot of times when you're young,
you're looking for everybody to blame except yourself. And I
think I got caught up in that and you know,
looking for somebody to point the finger out and say ah,
because it is because of this the whole time I
was on some dumb shit. The whole time she was
growing and you know, she gave me life and she

(45:51):
was figuring things out for herself. And so I'm just
thankful that she's still here, you know what I mean,
I love her, you know, and everything is does he.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
The book read it?

Speaker 3 (46:00):
Yeah? She got the books. She wanted the first ones
to get the books. She's like a nigga win my book.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
At Did you ever have like these hard conversations where
you guys, even in the process of writing this, were
you like let me have a sit down, or or
even prior.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
To I think I think prior to that, we had
some conversations because you know, my mom is My mom
is real. She didn't play no games, and she she
was to. She was to, she was she was hardcore,
especially back in the day. I remember me going to
jail and you know, somebody called me like I remember
me calling then and she was like they was like, yo,
wollowing them, wallowing us steven jail. She thought, O them
niggas be already know aybody like she was real cool

(46:36):
and the ass whoopings was different too, you know what
I mean, the good ass whoopings back in the day.
But you know, Mom, Mom is mom, she know, you know.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
And what about like a void from not having your father?

Speaker 3 (46:47):
Oh, you know, it's crazy. Rest in peace to Hip.
Hip was like my stepfather, my real father disappeared when
I was like two three years old. Don't know what
happened to him, but like I think, you know, Hip
was the cloe thing, closest thing to my father. But
somebody and my mom deal with that. I respect that
all the mother niggas. I ain't really like the nigga,
like Tyree said, I ain't like the me, but I

(47:07):
like the Hip. So I understand what he was saying. Man,
you know what I mean, especially you coming to crib
you see a wave cap drying on your unshower with you,
You're like, you know what I mean? But like Hip,
Hip was like that guy. Man, he was like, you know,
he used to always try to prevent me from the streets.
But the problem with the problem that happened that didn't
Hip aka Jonathan Cuttingham, sixty year street Moon Game, West Philadelphia,

(47:29):
they know who that is. What happened was I'm going
to see him in the penitentiary as a kid. Right
We look at this picture right and it was crazy.
I'm going to see him as in the penitentiary as
a kid. Right here, this us at the prison visit
Dollars Penitentiary.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
That's Hip.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
That's me in the fact, that's my brother Steve rest
in peace. And that's my little brother Jiloud, that's Hip son.
So what happened is what happened is this prison right here.
We used to go to visit a like all the time.
My mom taking out we going to prison, this same prison,
this is eighty seven. In nineteen ninety eight, me and
Hip become cell mates there right and in two thousand

(48:04):
and five, me and Steve become sell mees my gosh,
generational coarceration. So you know what I mean, Like he
go to joint right here with me and Steve, this
with me and Steve with sellmates to go to prison.
I d's wow, you know what I'm saying. So it
was like it was deep.

Speaker 4 (48:17):
Man.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
I don't even want to give away too much of
this buck. I know we talked about a lot of it,
but yeah, I have so much I could.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
I can't wait to read it. I did flip through it,
and I love the pictures. I love the way they
go on chronological order.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Yeah, but when you.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Guys read this, I mean it is it's quite a
right and it's good, you know why, because we already
know where you end up when we start the book
that part.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Yeah, so it kind of makes you feel like at
least we know he's okay.

Speaker 4 (48:40):
You're feeling the relief after telling the story, like filling
in all of the the gaps and the dots from
the things that people don't know, like really like giving
the details.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
Years because I think people need that, because I think
a lot of people share I'm same. I think it's different,
different locations, different things, but everybody share that, and sometimes
it can help people to say, damn, you know what,
I still do the shot right, because you know, I
could have gave up. I could have sit. Damn, I
was in the system. I never looked at it like,
oh I'm in the system. Done.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
I'm like when I get out, is up, it's up,
and it's still up.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
It's up. I'm just and right now I'm just warming up.
That's all.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
Would you want to find your father if he's still
is that?

Speaker 3 (49:15):
I remember one day it was crazy. I thought I
seen him right and it was wow, man, you know
because I remember when I was a kid, Like the
only thing I remember is like driving with him in
the car. I remember that. Really am coming to my
grandma and nanny house. I don't you know me? If
I seen him, I'd be like, damn, nigga, where you
been at? Like I know how I am. I have
a comment like what's up? I want to be mad?
Or none of that. I just talked to him like damn,

(49:35):
what happened, what's going on? Like where you're at in life?
That I got any more? You know, family, Like like
it's just it will be that for me. I don't
I don't think I will be upset and none of
that shit, because I know, like for me growing and
living life, I just look at it like you don't
know how this shit gonna go, and you don't know
what people is up against personally, And I know we
always want to hold people accountable for some shit, and

(49:57):
you don't know where they be at in life.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
You don't know what happened. Yes, yeah, why he.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
Had to No, No, only thing. The only thing I
did know was he was a big time met fan,
Felo me, Dylan. Uh. He had rose voyces, benzes and
all that crazy shit. He was getting money, a lot
of money. And one of his homies that got killed
the week before he disappeared and then all of a sudden,
so I don't know. Yeah, he was definitely doing it.
I don't know if they got him too, you know

(50:23):
what I mean, But he was doing.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
It all right. Well, listen you guys.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
The tour is starting in the Brons on September tenth, Philly,
New Orleans Houston, Miami, LA, Atlanta, Detroit, Chicago, Cincinnati, DC.
Make sure y'all come out and check out while armed
with good intentions. You are gonna love it and you know,
just real. I think definitely an inspirational story that's going
to help a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
So we thank you so much for coming there for
heavy hope.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
Before I leave, listen, check out that airplanes at the hotel.
You see, I got it on. Check out that peer
if you are High Drecent Drink is official HIGHD Recent
Drinks for the phillyp Your sixth is Chicago Sky you know,
and anything else I got going on Wallow two six
seventh Foundation. We building it up. Oh yeah, that's the
camera right there. See I don't know y'all got all
these cameras, all these these little different cameras. But listen,
but go get this book right here. Man, it's a book, man, listen.

(51:12):
Get it for a friend holiday coming, Get it for
everybody in your family. They're gonna love it. You, your
grandma and your brother. Everybody's going down on with good intentions.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Check me out, all right, Well, thank you so much.
It's way up, way up,