The Co-Conspirators: Dennis Mahon, Pt. 5

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Col Zone Media. A little after six a m. On
June twenty fifth, two thousand and nine, there was a
knock at the door. Dennis Mayhan looked outside and saw
deputies from the Ogle County Sheriff's Office standing on the
stoop of his parents farmhouse, but he said he wasn't

(00:22):
coming out unless they had a warrant. A deputy held
up the paperwork copies of arrest warrants and search warrants
for the property, but Dennis still wouldn't open the door.
Dennis Mayhan and his twin brother Daniel, were nearly sixty
years old, and neither man had a criminal record until
that day. Their elderly parents were asleep in their beds upstairs,

(00:48):
but agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
had briefed the deputies that morning before they all set
out for the Mayhon farm. Dennis had once told their
confidential informant quote, as long as I have my gun
and my ammunition, my final act will be a total, complete,
violent act against the government. I'm going to be dying

(01:10):
with the gun in my hands. He was cordial enough
at the door, but as the sound of his footsteps
were seated the officers saw the blinds go up in
an upstairs window. The officers scattered, fearing the brothers had
chosen to open fire instead of opening the door, but
nothing happened. For half an hour. They tried making contact

(01:33):
with the brothers, but Dennis and Daniel didn't answer the phone.
They were busy making phone calls of their own. Most
of their friends failed to answer the phone so early
in the morning, but Dennis left a voicemail for Becca Stevens,
or at least the woman he thought was Becca Stephens.
He would soon find out that his friend Becca was

(01:55):
an ATF informant whose real name was Rebecca Williams, and
he would later claim that he'd long suspected that she
wasn't who she said she was. But at dawn on
the day of his arrest, he called a woman he'd
been in love with for years and told her he
was considering going down shooting, but he didn't. At six

(02:16):
forty five a m A deputy tried Dennis's cell phone again,
this time from a number he wouldn't recognize. He picked
up and agreed to surrender. Officers entered the house and
arrested both brothers. They were just sitting calmly feet away
from a loaded AK forty seven lying on the table.

(02:38):
For the next two hours, the brothers sat in a
van on their parents' front yard as ATF agent searched
the house. They didn't know it yet, but ATF agents
were searching the homes of their longtime friends Tom Metzker
in Indiana and Robert Joes in Missouri. Sitting side by side,
hands cuffed in their laps in a minivan, the twins

(02:58):
discussed their situation. Dennis seemed to regret his choice, saying
they should have had a shootout. Daniel seemed less ready
to die, asking his brother what good it would have
done to take out those agents. They were offered snacks
and drinks, and the air conditioning was on. They took
a few bathroom breaks, but mostly they sat and talked

(03:20):
to each other as the agent searched the house. They
speculated about what the agents might find him there, illegal
armor piercing rounds, ornography, white supremacist literature, guns, and bomb
making supplies. They worried about their mother, over whom they
had recently been appointed legal guardians due to her advancing
Alzheimer's disease, and they agreed that they'd stay silent. When

(03:46):
Denis climbed out of the van to stretch his legs,
around nine thirty, there was a man in a suit
standing in his parents' front yard. He looked the man
up and down and said, you know, I think I've
seen you before, and atf Agent Tristan Morland, the man
Dennis had known up until that moment as a neo
Nazi named Jimmy the Wolf, answered, yes you have. I'm

(04:14):
Molly Conger. And this is weird little guys. This is

(04:35):
the last chapter of Dennis Mayhon's life. It has to be.
It ends with a seventy four year old man who
isn't scheduled to get out of federal prison until he's
ninety three. He will almost certainly die there. And I
really didn't intend for this to become a five part series.
That's too many parts. Even with the cuts and compromises

(04:59):
I've made, there's still so much left to say about
the life this man led. But we can't let this
become the Dennis Mayhon Show. There are too many weird
little guys whose stories I've promised to tell you for
us to spend any more weeks on Dennis. But one
thing we keep discovering together on this show is that
no Weird Little Guy is an island. Their lives intersect

(05:24):
and intertwine and overlap. They share hate group affiliations, They
date the same women, their suspects, and the same crimes.
They attend the same cross burnings, and subscribe to each
other's racist newsletters. I found a photo this week of
Dennis Mayhon's White Berets at a clan rally in Tennessee
in nineteen ninety three, where the headline speaker was Past

(05:48):
Weird Little Guy's subject Berry Black. The influence their hate
and violence has on the world can be devastating, but
their worlds are actually pretty small, and through the lens
of Dennis's life, we've traveled through several decades of hate,

(06:08):
meeting side characters like the Tulsa Midtown boot Boys, a
neo Nazi skinhead band in Oklahoma that was linked to
years of racist violence. We followed Dennis to Germany, where
he stoked the flames of anti immigrant violence amidst a
resurgence of the Ku Klux Klan. We met Carol Howe,
the first ATF informant that Dennis fell in love with,

(06:31):
and we followed Carol and Dennis to Alohem City, a
white separatist compound with blurry connections to bombings and bank robberies.
A lot of the bit players in Dennis's story will
be back because they have whole stories of their own, too,
like Daniel Rush, the bassist from the Midtown boot Boys,

(06:53):
a few years after we left him in the early nineties,
after his stint in prison for racially motivated violence, Strated
a Nazi comic book that William Luther Pierce wrote for children.
Or Wolfganroga, the German born neo Nazi Dennis was trying
to visit in Canada when he got deported in nineteen
ninety three. A few years before he invited Dennis to Toronto,

(07:16):
he was a key player in a hair brained scheme
to overthrow the government of Dominika. That plan failed, but
in a roundabout way, it's why the Nazi message board
Stormfront exists. The website's founder, Don Black, learned how to
use a computer during his prison sentence for attempting to

(07:37):
coo the government of a Caribbean nation. So I think
maybe you can understand why I've had so much trouble
getting myself out of this rabbit hole. Admittedly, I often
find that I am completely at the mercy of my curiosity.
I have a list of episode topics ten pages long,

(07:58):
and Dennis wasn't even on it. Back in November, I
was reading a book written by Kelvin Pierce, the son
of National Alliance founder William Luther Pierce. I was just
trying to squeeze in a little research where I could
for whenever the day comes that I try to tackle
that story. And I got fixated on the question of money.

(08:21):
If you can even remember back nearly two months ago. Now,
this all started with a question of money. William Luther
Pierce almost certainly paid for his West Virginia compound with
stolen cash given to him in nineteen eighty four by
Robert Matthews. But then I wanted to know what happened

(08:42):
to the other four million dollars those Nazis stole out
of the back of a brinkstruck. From there we got
to the three hundred thousand dollars that ended up in
the hands of Tom Metzger, the founder of White Arian Resistance.
Have you ever read the children's book If You Give
a Moose a muffin? I think there's one about a

(09:03):
mouse and a cookie too. But when I was a kid,
I was a moose and muffin girl. Basically, the moose
asks for a muffin, but once he gets the muffin,
he realizes he needs jam to go with it, and
it's so delicious that when he's done, he wants to
go to the store to get more muffin ingredients, but
it's cold outside, so he needs to put on a
sweater to go to the store. But when he puts

(09:24):
on the sweater, he loses the button and he wants
to mend it, and before you know it, that one
little muffin has turned into an afternoon long ordeal that
has nothing at all to do with muffins. And that's
kind of where I am right now, except there's no
BlackBerry jam and there's a lot more hate crimes. Because

(09:47):
while I was digging around into what Tom Metzker's immediate
next move was after getting that mountain of cash, it
was his nineteen eighties public access TV show, And that's
where I first found Dennis. When we first encountered him,
he was a side character in someone else's story. He
was just one of many men around the country who

(10:09):
were trying to air copies of Tom Metzger's show on
their own local TV channels. I made a passing reference
to his story ending with a bomb and a prison sentence,
but I didn't realize i'd find all of this in between.
I figured it would be a quick one and done
follow up on the story of that bomb. It was
a pretty well publicized case, and maybe I wouldn't even

(10:32):
have to read any books or spend a lot of
money on court documents to get a good story out
of it. I have never been more wrong in my life.
So after nearly two months on this story, let's finally
get to the only bomb anybody ever proved Dennis Mayhon made.

(10:55):
In two thousand and four, a package bomb exploded in
the hands of Don Logan, director of Scottsdale, Arizona's Office
of Diversity and Dialogue. He and two other city employees
were injured. The Mayhon brothers were arrested in two thousand
and nine and went to trial in twenty twelve. The
jury found Dennis guilty, but acquitted his twin brother, Daniel.

(11:19):
I'm telling you the ending here at the beginning, because
this isn't an episode of Law and Order as easy
as it would be to tell you a straightforward story
of a trial, which is what I set out to
do two months ago. I drove myself to the brink
of madness instead, because those facts alone, that timeline raises

(11:43):
a really big question. What took so long? You might think.
The answer is, will investigations take time? Maybe they didn't
know it was him, but they did almost immediately a
few months before the bombing, Dennis Mayhon was unhappy to

(12:05):
see that the city of Scottsdale was celebrating Hispanic Heritage Month,
so he called the Office of Diversity and Dialog to
share his feelings with them. He called from his own phone,
and he introduced himself as Denis Mayhon of the White
Arian Resistance of Arizona. He left a rambling, racial slur

(12:26):
laden voicemail that ended kind of ominously quote, anyway, we've
got lots of support. The White Arian resistance is growing
in Scottsdale. There are a few white people who are
standing up. So Dennis Mayhon was on investigator's radar pretty quickly,

(12:48):
and his name was already very familiar to agents from
the ATF. They'd had their eye on Dennis for nearly
twenty years, but it still took another year before they
began their undercover investigation into the Mayhun brothers. So at
this point you might be thinking, Okay, they've got their suspect,

(13:08):
they've got an undercover operation, but they're going to want
to get him dead to rights. And maybe it took
a long time for the informant to get him to
confess on tape another reasonable assumption, but you'd be wrong again.
In January of two thousand and five, nearly a year
after the bombing, the Mayhun brothers were living in a
trailer park in Catoosa, Oklahoma. The ATF arranged for their informant,

(13:33):
Rebecca Williams, to move in a few trailers down and
try to befriend them. Within hours of this beautiful blonde
new neighbor's arrival on a Wednesday afternoon, the brothers were
drinking in her trailer with ATF agents listening in. In
their very first meeting, Dennis boasted about his long history

(13:55):
of bombings. Mid drinks, he ran back to his own
trainlor to get his photo album because he was eager
to show his new friend Rebecca pictures of him in
his clan robes. By the time the weekend rolled around.
They were all drunk on Ever Clear, and the brothers
were regaling her with stories of bombings and drive by shootings. Daniel,

(14:17):
the quieter brother, explained that when he blew up people's cars,
it wasn't out of anger, it was a sense of duty.
Barely a week into their budding friendship, Rebecca told Dennis
a made up story about a child molester. She said
there was a man she knew who was molesting a

(14:37):
young relative of hers, and she wanted to hurt him.
She was thinking of using a mail bomb. Dennis responded
by describing what kind of bomb a person might make
in such a scenario, and the bomb he described was
identical to the one that had blown up in Scottsdale.
In a conversation that took place inside her train, Tayler

(15:00):
captured on audio and video recording live streamed to agents
from the ATF, he said that he had successfully made
such a bomb and that it blew the fingers off
the diversity officer in Scottsdale, Arizona. Now he's probably drunk.
He usually is, and he says things he shouldn't say

(15:23):
when he's drunk, and he backtracks pretty quickly, saying, actually,
he didn't build that bomb. It was the Scottsdale Police
Department who did that, but he'd taught them how to
do it. He would maintain for years that it was
in fact, disgruntled white police officers in Scottsdale who built
the bomb. The ATF did investigate those leads. Several employees

(15:49):
of the Scottsdale Police Department where polygraphed, their phones were tapped.
They were investigated and cleared, But that was the story
Dennis stuck with for a long time. But still here
he is on tape, just days into this undercover operation,
linking himself to that bomb. Within weeks, Dennis was taking

(16:14):
Rebecca to the gun show to buy the parts he'd
need to teach her how to build a bomb. Over
and over and over again for years, Dennis Mahon makes
incriminating statements on tape to a federal informant. He admits
to having machine guns and illegal silencers. He teaches her

(16:36):
how to make a letter bomb that will only injure
and not kill its recipient. They discuss the Scottsdale bomb often.
After she moves to Arizona, he asks her to mail
him news clippings about the ongoing investigation. A year into
their friendship, she sent him a news story where Don Logan,

(16:57):
the victim of that bombing, was interviewed. Afterwards, he called
her to talk about it, and he's clearly in a
rage to see that his victim is still carrying on
the work of the diversity office. He called Logan a
quote very arrogant bastard who just might get what's coming
to him again. And he said, quote, I just wanted

(17:19):
to teach the motherfucker a lesson the first time, and
there will be no lesson to learn a second time.
And it was still another three years after that phone
call before cops showed up on his front porch. What
could they possibly have been waiting for. They had enough

(17:40):
evidence to arrest him on a wide variety of federal charges,
and they clearly planned to because they kept pouring resources
into the investigation, but they waited four years. I think
the answer, though, is pretty simple. They had enough evidence

(18:02):
to arrest Dennis, but they didn't just want Dennis. In
last week's story, we flirted a little bit with conspiracy theory.
Carol Howe provided information to the ATF in nineteen ninety
four that Dennis mayhon was talking about blowing up a
federal building. A few months later, someone else actually did

(18:27):
blow up that federal building, but there was never anything
substantial that actually connected Dennis to the Oklahoma City bombing.
There are a lot of unanswered questions, some of which
are aggravated by Dennis's own habit of getting drunk and
bragging about having been involved. But as far as the

(18:49):
official record goes, the only connection between Dennis Mayhon and
Timothy mcveay is that they possibly once met at a
gun show. This week, though we aren't talking about a
conspiracy theory, we're talking about conspiracy in the legal sense.
In twenty twelve, a federal jury found Dennis Mayhon guilty

(19:12):
of three things, distribution of information about explosives, malicious damage
of a building by means of explosives, and conspiracy to
damage buildings in property by means of explosives. That's a
lot of words to say he talked about making a bomb,
planned to build a bomb, and set off a bomb.

(19:35):
But the conspiracy charge is what I want to talk about.
A criminal conspiracy is just an agreement between two or
more people to do something illegal. The conspirators discuss an
illegal act, they intend to commit this illegal act, and
at least one of them takes some kind of step

(19:57):
to carry the plan out. It's a little bit more
complicated than that, but this isn't a criminal law class,
so let's not get bogged down. The thing to understand
here is that a conspiracy requires more than one person.
In this case, the government did indict Dennis's twin brother Daniel,
on a single count of conspiracy, but the jury found

(20:20):
him not guilty. Two people is enough for a conspiracy,
and these were the only two people who got charged
in this one. But the ATF's theory of the case
involved a much wider cast of characters, people all over
the country. Halfway through this investigation, Agent Morland filed an

(20:44):
application for a wire tap. In it, he reveals who
he thinks might be involved. An heir to a banking
fortune who is locked in a legal battle over his
family's charitable foundation. A pair of Nazi brothers who did
time in the eighties for a fouridi plot to blow
up an elementary school in Ohio. A Christian identity preacher

(21:05):
hiding machine guns and precious metals in caves on his
compound in the Ozarks, an infamous white nationalist leader and
a wealthy farmer from Illinois who once got us teeth
knocked out by Heraldo Rivera at a clan rally. We

(21:34):
should start with the bomb. At the end of last
week's episode, Dennis was at Arionfest and Phoenix, Arizona. It
was the end of January two thousand and four. Dennis
was fifty three years old and claimed to be retired
from the movement. He spent the weekend listening to white
power bands and speeches from movement leaders like his friend

(21:56):
Tom Metzger, Arian Nation's leader, Richard Butler, and Billy Roper,
and he got really, really drunk. A reporter from the
Phoenix New Times overheard him bragging to some young neo
Nazis about having been involved with Timothy McVeigh. When the
article came out a few weeks later, Dennis left the

(22:18):
reporter several very trunk voicemails trying to explain to her
that he had actually been cleared in the investigation into
the Oklahoma City bombing, and he wanted her to make
that clear in the article. Tom Metzker, whose speech at
arian Fest included what you might interpret as incitement to

(22:39):
carry out bombings, also responded to the article, emailing the
reporter quote amusing article. If only you knew, but you will.
Years later, a man named Alan was arrested for defrauding
buyers on eBay. Alan Ellen wasn't at Arianfest. He's not

(23:03):
involved in any of this. I think he's just a
normal guy who did a pretty staggering amount of wire fraud.
But in two thousand and nine he was being held
at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Chicago. Dennis Mahon was
there too. He'd just been arrested and he was awaiting
extradition to Arizona to be tried for the bombing, and

(23:24):
for a week in July two thousand and nine, Dennis
and Allen shared a sell. During their time together, Alan
asked Dennis what he was in for, and Dennis refused
to say. This prompted Alan to speculate that if you
won't say, it must be pedophilia, and that apparently made

(23:44):
Dennis angry enough to tell the truth. He said he
was in for making bombs, specifically that he was the
Scottsdale bomber. I think it's fair to say that you
always have to take the story of a jailhouse informant
with a grain of salt. Allan was definitely hoping to
exchange this information for some consideration in his own case,

(24:07):
and ultimately he did. But from the time he claims
he had these conversations with Dennis, until he was interviewed
by federal agents about it, he was in seg He
wasn't involved in the movement, He had no connection to Scottsdale, Arizona.
I can't promise you that everything he said is true,

(24:29):
but I do think it's very safe to say that
everything he told those agents really was something Dennis told him,
because there's just no other way he could have produced
any of these details. Some of the things Dennis told
Alan are not true, but they are consistent with the

(24:49):
kinds of lies Dennis is known to tell. He boasted
about his friendship with Timothy McVeigh and even hinted that
he had been one of the John Does that witnesses
saw with McVeigh on the morning of the bombing. He
claimed to have opened fire on civilians during the Miami
riots in nineteen eighty and we've talked about both of
those claims in previous episodes. These are lies that have

(25:12):
come up before, and I don't think either of those
things are true, but there are things that Dennis sometimes
wants you to think are true. He also told Alan
that he'd been on the phone with Tom Metzger on
the morning he was arrested, and that it had been
Tom Metzger who convinced him to surrender, telling him he
didn't need to go down shooting, that he'd get him

(25:33):
out of this, and that may be true. Metzger certainly
would not have wanted to end up charged in connection
with the deaths of a bunch of federal agents. The
other revelations from Alan are intriguing. By his account, Dennis
decided to build that bomb in February of two thousand

(25:54):
and four because he'd recently met a man that he
wanted to impress. Alan couldn't remember anyone's names, but he
says shortly before the bombing, Dennis met a man from
Europe who had recently been released from a prison in
the UK for blowing up a building. It struck me

(26:15):
as completely extraneous at first, but this next detail is
the most important one. He mentions that the man was Protestant.
This is all very vague. This sounds like it could
be nothing, but hear me out because I'm going to
do a little wild speculation based in half a day

(26:37):
of wasted research. Let's go back to arian Fest two
thousand and four for a second. It takes a lot
of work to pull off a Nazi picnic, so there
were several groups involved in planning the event. It was
organized mainly by a group called Folksfront, but that's not
important right now. A lot of the on the ground logistics, camping, food,

(27:01):
communication were handled by women. Obviously, specifically, it was a
group called Women for Aaryan Unity. The group's newsletter indicates
that they had active chapters in several US cities and
in Dublin. But I didn't need their newsletter to tell

(27:23):
me that the Women for Aaryan Unity probably know some
Ulster loyalists. Victoria Cayhill was living in Colorado by the
time she was responsible for the Women for Arian Unity's newsletter,
but she is from Dublin. She's also the niece of
an infamous Irish crime boss named Martin Kyhill. When Martin

(27:46):
kay Hill was murdered in nineteen ninety four, the IRA
issued a press release claiming responsibility. Was believed that Khill's
criminal organization had been trafficking guns for the Ulster Volunteer Force,
specifically for the the unit that had recently murdered an
IRA member who prevented a loyalist bombing attack at a
Dublin pub. So no, it's not hard to believe somewhat

(28:10):
an ary infest would invite an ulsterman to the party.
In the few digital scraps remaining of the defunct online
message boards set up for Aryan Fest two thousand and four, attendees,
several organizers from Women for Aryan Unity make reference to
their Irish guests, but I haven't been able to put
any names to it. There are honestly quite a few

(28:34):
possibilities here because after the Good Friday Agreement was signed
in nineteen ninety eight, over four hundred prisoners from both
sides of the troubles were released early from prison, and
the last batch of those releases took place in two
thousand and Alan told the agents from the ATF that
Dennis built that bomb because he wanted to impress a

(28:55):
Protestant from the UK who went to prison from blowing
up a building, and that will be a very strange
thing for a man who didn't know any of that
to pull out of thin air. He also claimed Dennis
told him after the bombing, Tom Metzger had arranged for
the brothers to stay with a man named Harrington in Tulsa.

(29:16):
This one took me a minute to sort out, because
the ATF report spells Harrington with an A, not an E.
But I believe this has to be Clifford Harrington, the
founder and former chairman of the National Socialist Movement. He
had stepped down as chairman a few years earlier and
was living in Tulsa at the time. Alan's memory is

(29:39):
fuzzy here, but he said something about how maybe this
Harrington fellow also needed Dennis's help because of his own
trouble with the law, And that doesn't make much sense.
How can two men hide each other from the law.
But I think I can explain this. I think Al

(30:00):
is blending together two different similar stories because there are
rumors in the weirder corners of the white nationalist world
that cliff Harrington crashed at Denis's house for a while
in the mid nineties after he got caught with an
underage girl in Minnesota. So maybe Harrington was just repaying

(30:22):
the favor ten years later by letting Dennis stay at
his house after the bombing. Harrington's wife, Andrea, has denied
any of this ever happened, but she was also a
priestess with the Nazi cult Joy of Satan Ministries, and
she spent many years denying a lot of allegations after

(30:43):
it came out that the Nazi's wife was running a
Satanic cult out of the same po box he used
for National Socialist Movement business. She died in twenty twenty
after falling and hitting her head, so we can't ask
her about any of that. During that week in two
thousand and nine that Dennis and Allan share a sell,

(31:04):
Dennis talked a lot. He talked a lot about a
lot of people he knew and a lot of things
that he'd done. He talked about his friend Steve Waddell,
a man who'd lived down the street from the Mayhon
Brothers in Tulsa in the nineties, and he told Alan
that he's worried his friend John McLaughlin might be a
federal informant. Talked a lot about Tom Metzger. He was

(31:28):
so sure that Metzger was already hard at work organizing
a big, expensive legal defense team for him. After all,
he'd promised on the morning of the arrest, We'll get
you out of this. But that never happened. Like I said,
Maybe nothing Dennis told Allan in that jail cell in Chicago,

(31:50):
five years after the bombing means anything at all, but
whether he felt moved to impress an aging monarchist from
Ireland or not. It was just two weeks after airing
Infest two thousand and four that he really recommitted himself
to violence. On February thirteenth, two thousand and four, Dennis

(32:12):
Mahon wrote out his last will and testament. He planned
to leave five thousand dollars to Tom Metzger and everything
else would go to his twin brother Daniel. The document
was signed by Daniel as his witness, and it reads,
in part, I request to be buried next to Robert J.
Matthews ashes on his widow Matthew's property in Medeline Falls, Washington.

(32:35):
I have fought the evil, greedy race and culture destroying politicians,
the corporate leaders, the bankers, and the powerful Jews since
I was twenty eight years old, after studying the real
history of our race. At the bottom, he signs off
by writing in memory of Robert Matthews, and Tim mcphay

(32:55):
just above his own signature. He sent the document to
his fow in Illinois by certified mail. Postal Service records
indicate he mailed it on February twenty first, the same
day the bomb was discovered. Now, I've never built a bomb, obviously,
I don't even know how to change a car battery.

(33:16):
I certainly wouldn't trust myself with a soldering iron and
black powder. But I've read enough about bombers to know
that it's not uncommon for a bomber to blow himself
up by accident. So maybe if I were tinkering with
a bomb, I would get my will sorted out beforehand,
just in case. But that's not actually the timeline we

(33:39):
have here. He wasn't concerned he would die trying to
make the bomb. He assumed the cops would link him
to the bomb immediately after the explosion, and he was
getting his affairs in order because he planned to die
in a shootout with the ATF in the very near future.
He even asked to be laid to rest alongside Robert Matthews,

(34:02):
the Nazi who died in a shootout with the FBI
in nineteen eighty four. On February twenty First, he mails
his will, and he made a lot of phone calls.
No one can save for certain exactly how the bomb
ended up in the Scottsdale Public Library, but the most

(34:22):
logical answer is that Dennis put it there himself. He'd
said several times over the years to both informants and
reporters that it was his practice to hand deliver his
package bombs in disguise. The package was located at about
ten thirty am, and Dennis's phone records show that he
was on the phone most of that day, starting at

(34:46):
six am, but he didn't make any calls between nine
thirty am and eleven thirty am, which is the perfect
window of time for him to make the thirty minute
round trip drive to Scottsdale's Civic Center and leave the
package on the desk in the library where it was found.
And who did Dennis Mayhon call on the morning he

(35:08):
planted that bomb? Quite a few people, as it turns out,
the day the bomb was planted, Dennis Mayhon got up early.

(35:33):
He placed his first call of the day at six
am to Robert Joe's. Joe's is a curious character, and
we may have to revisit him. He still lives on
his three hundred acre compound in Missouri. Over the course
of the investigation into the bombing, Dennis told the ATF
informant Rebecca a lot about his friend Robert Jo's. They'd

(35:56):
known each other for quite a long time. When Joe's
went to prison in the mid nineties, the Mayhon Brothers
maintained his property for him. He's a bit of a
sovereign citizen type. In the late eighties, he was charged
with interfering with the courts because he wouldn't stop filing
nonsense motions in cases he wasn't involved in, but the

(36:18):
cops couldn't manage to get their hands on him. In
nineteen ninety four, he was finally detained by a state
trooper during a traffic stop and held on that old warrant.
Shortly after his arrest, a man who'd been living on
Jose's compound took revenge on that trooper, shooting him in
the chest while he was sitting at his own kitchen table.
The trooper survived, but the shooter, a man named Timothy Coombs,

(36:43):
remains on Missouri's Most wantedless to this day as a
convicted felon. Robert jos is not supposed to have any
guns at all, but according to Dennis, the caves the
landscape of his compound are full of stockpiled weapons. Those caves,
he told Rebecca, were where he and his brother would

(37:03):
go if they really started to feel any heat from
the FEDS. During the investigation into the Scottsdale bombing, the
informant visited Joe's on his Missouri compound three times, twice
in the company of an undercover agent, with the Mayhun
brothers vouching for Rebecca and Rebecca vouching for her friend
Jimmy the Wolf. Jo's welcomed the informant and the agent

(37:25):
onto his property. They discussed bomb making and purchasing illegal weapons.
Over the course of those three visits, Joe's got very
comfortable discussing bomb making and illegal guns with his new friends.
Agent Morland, posing as Jimmy the Wolf, had a fairly
explicit conversation with Jo's about the fact that he understood

(37:49):
that he was not legally allowed to own any guns,
and that he did in fact own guns guns that
were in the room with them as they had this conversation.
While the ATF was never able to scrape together enough
proof to charge Joe's as a co conspirator in the bombing.
He was arrested the same day as the Mayhon twins
and charged with being a felon in possession of guns

(38:11):
and explosives, both of which were found in abundance on
his property. In his own criminal case, he tried to
downplay his connection to the Mayhans, claiming that he had
no real knowledge at all of what the brothers were into.
Admitted into evidence in his case, though, was a videotape
the ATF found at Tom Metzger's house. In nineteen ninety three,

(38:35):
Dennis Mayhon conducted paramilitary training drills for members of White
Airyan Resistance on Jose's property. By the time the twins
went to trial in twenty twelve, jos was already two
years into his seven year sentence. I'm not sure what
I thought I would learn by paying thirty dollars to
read the transcripts from his trial. I didn't get much

(38:58):
of substance out of it, but I couldn't live with
myself if I didn't tell you that He tried to
attend his own trial in his underwear. He claimed that
his religious beliefs require him to wear clothing that complies
only with God's Law, which means that he can only
wear clothing that has fringed down the sides and a

(39:20):
violet ribbon around the border. Now me personally, I'd rather
show up in court in my underwear than unpack the
strange appropriation of misinterpreted Jewish law by the world's weirdest
anti semites. In the end, the jail wouldn't let him
go to court in his underpants, so he showed up

(39:42):
to the first day of his trial in his jail uniform. Apparently,
by the second day someone had provided him with satisfactorily
fringed garments, but there aren't any pictures. He was released
from prison in twenty fifteen and seems to have stayed
out of any criminal trouble since then, But it looks
like he's being sued by his ninety four year old

(40:04):
mother over the title to that land. Robert Joe's wasn't
called to testify in the Mayhans trial, and I don't
know if he's had a chance to read any of
those documents since he got out of prison in twenty fifteen.
He may have no idea that before his arrest in
two thousand and nine, Dennis had started to talk pretty

(40:26):
seriously about putting a bullet in Robert Joe's and taking
the thirty thousand dollars worth of the silver he believed
was hidden in the caves. Back to the morning the
bomb was planted in two thousand and four, After he
got off the phone with Joe's, Dennis spoke briefly with
his brother, who was finishing an overnight shift at the

(40:46):
Phoenix Airport, and then he made his second phone call
of the morning, and he called Charles Koontz. Kontz is
an interesting element in this story because outside of this relationship,
I can't find anything that connects him to the white
power movement. No arrests, no group affiliations, no racist letters

(41:08):
to the editor of his local paper. Aside from the
filings in this case, the only other places name really
exists is in the extensive litigation regarding his seat on
the board of the Gilbert and Martha Hitchcock Foundation, a
charitable foundation in Nebraska that was run for decades by

(41:29):
his father, Denman Kones Junior, the great grandson of the
founder of the first National Bank of Omaha. But it
seems Charles Kuntz had been a quiet but enthusiastic supporter
of white supremacist terror for many years. He sent the
Mayhon brothers money, he visited them occasionally, he called often,

(41:51):
and he once gave them a car. By the time
Dennis's conversations were being recorded by a federal informant, though
they had been enjoying for years, seemed to be drying
up a little. After his father's death in two thousand
and five, Kons lost his seat on the board of
the Hitchcock Foundation. Factions formed within the family, and they

(42:13):
all spent years suing each other, which probably took up
a lot of his time and money. Over the years
between two thousand and five and two thousand and nine,
Dennis would often tell Rebecca that he was concerned Kons
maybe an informant, which is a little funny because we
only know he said that because he was sharing those

(42:33):
fears with the actual informant. After Coon's visited Dennis one
day in two thousand and five, he called Rebecca to
complain that Coons wouldn't stop asking if they could shoot
some of Dennis's guns together, and it was very suspicious
how insistent he was that he wanted to try shooting
with a silencer, something that would be a federal crime

(42:56):
for Denis to own. Later that year, he told Rebecca
that Koons had been asking him a lot of questions
about various bombings he'd carried out in the past. He
was trying to get specific details about which abortion clinic
it was that he bombed in the eighties, and he
really wanted to talk about Scottsdale. And honestly, that sounds

(43:21):
like snitch behavior. That's exactly the kind of conversation an
informant might try to have with you. But the ATF
put his name in their wiretap affidavit as a suspect,
so I don't think he was their informant. I guess
we have to leave open the possibility that he was
informing for another agency, or maybe he was just planning

(43:44):
to do some freelance snitching down the line. More likely, though,
I think he just liked living vicariously through the domestic
terrorists he'd been funding for years. He sent them money,
and in return, he got to feel like he was
part of something exciting. By two thousand and seven, he
was only sending the Brothers a few hundred dollars every

(44:05):
couple of months, around the same time that he started
talking about killing Robert Jo's and stealing his guns in Silver,
Dennis was complaining to Rebecca that Koontz had millions in
the bank and he was holding out on him. He
said he was thinking about asking Kons for one hundred
thousand dollars so he could do something big, and if

(44:28):
Konz refused, maybe he'd take him out to Jos's compound
and quote cut his balls off with a dull knife.
Kontz was never called to testify in the trial, and
as far as I can tell, he's never spoken publicly
about any of this. I couldn't even find in the
documentation for the case any transcripts of intercepted calls between

(44:50):
Dennis and Coots. They may be there, there are thousands
of documents, but I didn't see them. So most of
what I know about their relationship comes from transcripts of
calls where Dennis gets off the phone with Coons and
then calls Rebecca and describes it to her. But based
on the information I do have, it seems like in

(45:13):
the months before Dennis was finally arrested, his long time
benefactor really did have his best interests at heart, he
was incredibly suspicious of Rebecca. For the most part, Dennis
believed Rebecca when she said she'd moved out to Arizona
and gotten involved in order militia type activity. The ATF

(45:34):
staged a whole photo shoot out in the deserts with
agents dressed up as right wing extremists posing with guns
and Nazi flags. She mailed Dennis a photo from that outing.
She's sort of leaning up against a blue pickup truck
and the edge of a Nazi flag is visible behind her.
She's wearing a cameo print bucket hat and a white
bikini top, and then there nestled between her breasts, there's

(46:00):
a hand grenade. And Dennis apparently really really enjoyed these pictures,
and that may be why he chose to believe her,
But Coons just wasn't buying it. Just two months before
the ATF showed up to arrest Dennis, Coons called him
to say that he'd been searching for any news stories

(46:22):
in Arizona about the kinds of things Rebecca claimed she'd
been doing for the movement right. She'd been telling Dennis
about various actions she and her cell were carrying out
and Konz was looking to see if there was any
news about any of this, and he couldn't find anything.
And Dennis was irate at this implication, and he told

(46:43):
Kons that Rebecca had done more for the movement than
Coon's ever had. And then he reminded Kons that Dennis
was someone who knew what he was talking about, shouting,
you don't know how many pipe bombs I lit off.
You don't know how many transformers I've destroyed and put
people out of in the early eighties, from eighty two
to eighty seven before I got outed. And again here's

(47:07):
Dennis making some oddly specific claims about things he'd done
in the past. Last week, I tried and failed to
find any news stories about a five hundred pound ammonium
nitrate bomb blowing up a truck in Michigan in the eighties,
which is a very specific claim that he made to
Carol Howe. And here he is now talking about carrying

(47:30):
out a grid attack in the eighties. I wish you'd
be a little more specific about what region and maybe
exactly which year, because I feel like I could solve
this if he just gave me a few more clues.
One possibility is in nineteen eighty one, three power substations

(47:51):
in Martin and Saint Lucie Counties were attacked in the
same night using a combination of rifle fire and explosives,
the method that Dennis would later drunkenly describe to Rebecca.
The attacks coused about a million dollars worth of damage,
but the lights actually only went out for about an hour.

(48:11):
I couldn't find any follow up stories about the incident
being solved, and Dennis did live in South Florida at
the time, so I don't know. In another conversation with Rebecca,
he's starting to get very paranoid that his past might
catch up with him, and he's sure that the Feds
are closing in quote for something that happened in nineteen

(48:34):
eighty six nineteen eighty five. Quite a few things happened
in those two years around the country. A lot of
bombs went off.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
End.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Quote Yeah, I don't know about that one. I mean
some bombs definitely did go off in eighty five and
eighty six. In nineteen eighty six, there was a series
of bombings in Idaho carried out by members of the
Arian Nations, but there were a rest made in those cases.

(49:05):
Nineteen eighty six is also the year I found for
an unsolved pipe bomb at a Jewish community center in
West Bloomfield, Michigan, a bomb at a Detroit abortion clinic,
and an arson at a Planned parenthood in Kalamazoo. I
don't think any of those were ever solved, but again
it's hard to say so. If you know a retired

(49:28):
ATF agent with loose lips, for the love of God,
asked them to just give me a hint, Just give
me a hint, because I lost days trying to figure
out every unsolved bombing in the span of fifteen years,
and I just can't figure out which bombs Dennis is
trying to take credit for in that angry phone call

(49:50):
with his secret benefactor. But back to Dennis's phone calls
on the morning he planted this bomb. So far, he's
called Robert Joes, his brother, and Charles Kon's. He talks
to his brother again briefly, and then he received a
call from someone using a calling card with an Atlanta

(50:13):
area code. The call lasted less than a minute. He
may not have even picked up, but the same number
called again two more times five days later, just a
few hours after the bomb actually went off, and both
of those calls also lasted just a few seconds. I

(50:35):
can't explain that, and there's nothing offered in the record.
He missed two more calls from his brother while he
was on the phone for his longest call. That morning,
he spent half an hour on the phone with Edward Gerhardt.
And this was another surprise. I didn't expect to see
them here. Edward and his brother John started a short

(50:57):
lived Nazi group called the American White Nationalist Party in
nineteen seventy two. In nineteen seventy four, they were sentenced
to a short stay at the State Reformatory for shooting
out the windows of a state education official and then
calling to let him know that it had only been
a warning from the clan. A nineteen seventy six issue

(51:18):
of the Ohio National Socialist includes a brief mention that
Ohio leaders of the National Socialist Movement had met with
ed and John Gerhardt of the American White Nationalist Party
to discuss how their Nazi groups might present a unified
front against forced busing in Columbus. One of the representatives

(51:38):
at that meeting was a young James Mason. Just a
few years before he would start writing the essays that
would eventually become Siege every Nazi terrorist's favorite book. And
as for that United Front against desegregation in Ohio, the
Gerhardt brothers would spend a few years in federal prison
after they were arrested in nineteen seventy nine for plotting

(52:02):
to blow up Old Orchard Elementary School in Columbus. The
eleven year old daughter of the federal judge who'd ordered
Columbus schools to begin bussing was a student there. John
Gerhardt would go on to get arrested again in nineteen
ninety two for abduction. During the decade he spent in
Ohio prison, he sued the state prison system for infringing

(52:25):
on his free exercise of religion. The religion in question
was the Church of Jesus Christ Christian, which sounds like
it might be normal Christianity, but it's not. It is
the particular flavor of Christian identity that was popularized by
Arian Nation's leader, Richard Butler. I can't find much about

(52:49):
what Edward Gerhart got up to after he got out
of prison in nineteen eighty three. He doesn't seem to
exist anywhere that I could find, Although admittedly I ran
out of time to look. But based on my cursor research,
if I didn't know that he'd been on the phone
with a bomber on the morning of a bombing in
two thousand and four, I might have assumed that he

(53:12):
just didn't think about bombs at all anymore. But given
that I do know that he was on the phone
with Dennis the morning of the bombing, I gotta say
I don't think they were talking about the weather. And
just before Dennis Mayhon's phone goes quiet for that two
hour window, which is probably when he dropped off the bomb,

(53:33):
he made one last phone call. He called Tom Metzger,
and they spoke for seven minutes. Dennis must have been
very confused. Later that day, he didn't see anything in
the news about a bomb. He planted that bomb on
February twenty first. Then he went home and he waited.

(53:58):
What he didn't know is that he'd delivered it to
the wrong address. It's not entirely clear how this mistake happened,
but he wrote down on the box the address of
the library, not the address of the diversity office, and
so when the time came to deliver it, he took

(54:19):
the box to the address written on the box. It
took another five days before that package found its way
into Don Logan's hands, detonating around one pm on February
twenty sixth, and when the explosion finally hit the national
news that evening, Charles Koontz started blowing up Dennis's phone.

(54:41):
He called him several times that evening, right around the
time it would have hit the five o'clock news, But
it doesn't look like Denis ever picked up. He was
too busy calling Tom Metzger repeatedly and having his calls ignored.
A lot of the documents related to this wire tap

(55:02):
are kind of a riddle to me. They raise a
lot more questions than they answer. When Agent Morland applied
for those wire taps, he was exploring a theory of
this case that included this large cast of co conspirators.
But by the time the case got to trial, that
wasn't the theory anymore, that wasn't what was pursued by

(55:24):
the prosecutor, And so almost none of those names ever
come up in any other documents related to the case,
and no evidence was presented at trial to explain these
flurries of telephone activity on dates that were significant in
the bombing case, the day the bomb was planted, the
day the bomb went off, the day the sheriff showed

(55:45):
up with a warrant for his DNA. Now DNA ended
up being useless in this case. Dennis was careful. He
always wore gloves, and he taught Rebecca not to lick stamps.
But a year before the arrest, a warrant was served
to swab both brothers for DNA samples, and after that

(56:06):
sample was taken, Dennis called Tom Metzger and on a
line he surely did not know was tapped, he said,
over and over again, I'll never betray you, Tom, I'll
never betray you. I'll never implicate you. And he doesn't

(56:26):
say for what. And Tom Metzger doesn't ask, He doesn't
ask Dennis what he means. He doesn't say implicate me.
In what he responds, I know you won't. Some of
the calls to Joe's and Metzger were allowed into evidence
at trial, but Charles Coons and Edward Gerhardt were nowhere

(56:48):
to be found. The Wiretop documentation lists even more names
we never really see again. Dennis received several calls the
week of the bombing from Tina Higgins, the found of
a hate group called Central New York White Pride. Agent
Morland lists the brother's old neighbor, Steve Waddell, as a
target of the investigation, along with another name I can't

(57:11):
quite place, Stephen Sawyer. When Agent Morland spoke to Daniel
Mahon in the morning of the arrest, he told him
that agents were at Tom Metzger's house at that very moment,
and he warned Daniel that even more of his friends
would be getting the same treatment in the near future.
The transcription of his body camera during this encounter shows

(57:31):
Moreland telling Daniel that he's just trying to be straight
with him, telling him, mister Koontz, the Gerhardt brothers, Tina Higgins,
all them all, this stuff's going on all over the
country right now, McLaughlin down in Springfield, Sawyer, Waddell. It
goes on and on, and Daniel laughs and says they'll

(57:53):
have to get Sawyer to sober up if they want
to get anything out of him. As far as I
can tell, none of those other people got raided that day.
If they did, they never said anything. John McLaughlin, a
man who was exchanging calls with Dennis on a weekly
basis for years during the course of this investigation, was

(58:15):
never mentioned in connection with the case outside of these
wiretap documents. Maybe Dennis was onto something when he told
his cellmate that McLaughlin may have been an informant. He
died in twenty seventeen, so we can't ask him if
there's a better explanation for this. But in nineteen ninety five,
the ATF recovered a cash of illegal weapons that he'd

(58:36):
been stockpiling for the race War, but he wasn't charged federally.
The ATF let the state of Illinois handle the case,
and a county judge gave him community service. Maybe there's
an explanation, but I don't have it. In nineteen ninety two,

(58:57):
McLaughlin and HERALDA Rivera were both arrested after they got
into a fistfight at a clan rally in Janesville, Wisconsin.
Rivera says the man got in his face and called
him a racial slur. The charges against Rivera were eventually dropped.
Witnesses say the bloody teeth left on the pavement after
three cops pulled the reporter off. The clansmen belonged to McLaughlin.

(59:20):
A local TV news reporter interviewed a bystander for his
perspective on the brawl. He doesn't give his name, but
he's wearing a bright yellow ball cap with a white
Arean Resistance logo on it. And at this point, I'd
know that voice anywhere. It's Dennis.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
Haraldo. Came with the crowd of protesters. What didn't come
here to get information out of us? And how he
feel about things? He came with a crowd because you
weren't violence. When he got violence, I think he's got
busts and nose or buts and jaw what he deserves, justly.
What is he ever going to learn?

Speaker 1 (59:58):
The most maddening detail in the application for the wire
tap is a passing mention that this isn't the first
time the atf AS wiretap Dennis Mayhon. They'd done it
once before, back in nineteen ninety. He'd been suspected of
involvement in a series of mail bombs in nineteen eighty nine.

(01:00:19):
One of those bombs killed federal judge Robert Vance in Alabama.
Another killed Robert Robinson, a black civil rights attorney in Georgia.
Bombs mailed to the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals in
Atlanta and the NAACP office in Jacksonville did not go off,
And early in that investigation, a wire tap recorded Dennis

(01:00:41):
boasting about having made package bombs, and he describes with
great pride the care he took in disguising them well
and using inconspicuous mailing labels to avoid suspicion, but he
never said anything specific enough about the targets. He wasn't charged.

(01:01:02):
A man named Walter Moody was eventually convicted of those bombings.
Moody had been to prison once before for making a
package bomb. In nineteen seventy two, he constructed a pipe
bomb that he planned to mail to the car dealership
that had repossessed his car, but before he could get
it into the mail, his wife saw a box on
the kitchen counter and opened him. She was badly injured,

(01:01:25):
and he was sentenced to five years. And so it
looks like the theory of these later bombings, the one
that killed the federal judge, was that Moody wanted revenge
on the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals because they'd refused
to reverse his conviction in that nineteen seventy two bombing.
The idea is that he actually only wanted to kill

(01:01:48):
Judge Vance, and the other three bombings were an elaborate
ruse to make the bombing look racially motivated. It sounds
a little far fetched, but stranger things have happened, and
bombers aren't always the most rational kinds of guys. It
borders on beyond belief that Denis Mayhon had no criminal

(01:02:13):
record until he was arrested in two thousand nine. He'd
been investigated in connection with the assassination of a federal
judge and the deadliest act of domestic terror in American history.
He was cleared in both investigations, but how many times
can you be a suspect in something so serious if

(01:02:34):
there's nothing going on there? He was banned from Canada,
the United Kingdom, and Germany. He was designated as a
terrorist by Interpol. He boasted to reporters about being a
serial bomber, and for decades he published his Nazi propaganda

(01:02:55):
and drank himself to sleep. In the end, I think
the ATF wanted Tom Metzger. They kept tabs on Dennis
for years in the hopes that they'd turn up something
concrete that would lead them to Metzger, but they never did.
It's impossible to know why they finally made the arrest

(01:03:16):
when they did. Most federal crimes have a statute of
limitations of five years, but these explosive related offenses he
was charged with are actually an exception to that. So
they still had more than four years left on a
ten year clock. And it couldn't have been because they'd
given up on getting Metzger, because they did try. His

(01:03:37):
house was rated, too, but they failed to get enough
evidence to charge him. I think it's because Dennis's mom
was dying. That sounds terrible, but I don't mean they
were trying to exploit his grief or something like that,
because just a few months before his arrest, Dennis was

(01:03:59):
very drunk, as he often was. He and his brother
had just been to court to get legal guardianship over
their mother. She was dying, and caring for a loved
one dying of Alzheimer's disease is a terrible thing to bear,
and so he's very drunk and he calls Rebecca and
he leaves her a voicemail. It's a rambling, slurred several minutes,

(01:04:25):
but he explains that he's busy taking care of his
mother right now, and it won't be long. He fully
expects that she'll pass pretty soon, and he says, when
she's gone, quote, I'll go back to my radical bomb throwing,
sniper shooting realm. But until mom passes away, I really

(01:04:47):
can't do much. But when she does, look out, Zob,
look out, because I've got nothing to lose, motherfuckers. I
will shut the country down on electrical power. Yeah, I
know how to do it. I got the weapon. I
got the high powered rifles to shoot down the high
tower power accelerators. And he continues from there, and the

(01:05:08):
middle portion is largely unintelligible. There are portions of the
transcript that are just marked unintelligible. But he picks back
up by saying, take care, remember, learn, learn, get high
power weaponry to take out the high power towers, take
out electrical power. Understand that there's explosives, high powered rifles,

(01:05:32):
shoot the insulators. We need to do this when the
time comes. The time is coming this way. Close Take care, darling.
Remember the electrical power grid is the Achilles Heel of America.
Dennis's mother would end up hanging on for another three years,

(01:05:54):
passing away just a few weeks after Dennis was sentenced
in twenty twelve, But in March of two thousand nine,
it looked like she was on her way out and
Dennis was getting ready for the race war. And maybe,
just maybe, this time, when an ATF informant brought them

(01:06:15):
credible information that Dennis Mayhon was talking about blowing something up,
they acted on it. Dennis Mayhon is serving a forty
year sentence at Tara Hate. He occasionally writes in letters
to the editor at The Barnes Review, a quarterly Holocaust
denial magazine founded by Willis Carter. It seems fitting that

(01:06:39):
his story ends in the back pages of The Barnes Review.
One of the earliest mentions I ever found of Dennis
in white supremacist movement literature was in a nineteen eighty
one issue of another of Cardo's publications, a newspaper called
The Spotlight. Dennis and Daniel Mahon were featured in an
article for their heroic efforts distributing copies of the anti

(01:06:59):
Semitic Conspiracy Three newspaper in Florida. From prison. He sometimes
writes in to boast about all the famous Nazis he
once knew. He wrote in to tell his fellow readers
that he used to know Art Jones, he knew Robert Miles,
he knew Richard Butler. He once claimed that he'd met
American Nazi Party leader George Lincoln Rockwell, but I don't

(01:07:23):
think that's true. He was only seventeen when Rockwell was
shot by one of his own followers. As far as
the official record is concerned, Dennis Mayhon alone was responsible
for the package bomb that exploded in the Scottsdale Office
and Diversity and Dialogue on February twenty six, two thousand
and four. His brother was acquitted. No one else was

(01:07:47):
ever charged in connection with the plot Dennis and Dennis
alone is guilty of that bombing, but there are no
lone wolves. Really. Weird Little Guys as a production of

(01:08:15):
Cool Zone Media and iHeartRadio. It's research, written and recorded
by me Ali Konger. Our executive producers are Sophy Electroman
and Robert Evans. The show is edited by the wildly
talented Rory Gagan. The theme music was composed by Brad Dickard.
You can email me at Weird Little Guys podcast at
gmail dot com. I will definitely read it, but I
probably will not answer it. It's nothing personal. You can

(01:08:38):
exchange conspiracy theories about the show with other listeners on
the Weird Little Guys Subredda. Just don't post anything that's
going to make you one of my Weird Little Guys.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Co-Conspirators: Dennis Mahon, Pt. 5