March 12, 2025 • 42 mins
Charlotte Gibson swings by the Par-Tee to talk about the massive spike in women’s sports coverage, what the LPGA can do to make golf more fun to watch, and the one golfer she thinks could strike reality TV gold. Plus, we play a game of real or fake headlines.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I don't want to look like I'm a giant next
(00:01):
to you. I don't want to look like I'm a giant.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I actually don't think I can go anything.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I did that with Kevin Hart.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You interviewed Kevin Hart.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Yeah, it was a New York City Marathon and we
were sitting at the Nike headquarters in New York and
We're sitting on a couch and the camera guy that
was there just was like new he was very green,
and I'm an angle. It was just like my body
and then like little Kevin. And then like the comments
were like savage and they were like whoa, she's an
(00:30):
Amazon woman. And I'm like, I'm five five angles angles. Yeah,
I was like, I'm five to five. I'm not that tall.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I'm very excited to introduce my next guest for so
many reasons. She is such a force in the sports
journalism world. She's a writer for ESPN, ESPN W. Basically,
if there's a story to be told or a profile
to be made, especially for females or women in sports,
you're going to see it from her. She has become
such a dear friend of mine. Our puppies love to
play together. We now go on brunch dates so our
(01:07):
puppies can hang and we're moms. We just get the chill. So,
without further ado, Charlotte Gibson, welcome to the party.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Thank you. I'm happy to be here. I'm so happy.
I'm happy to be at the party.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, the par dash tea. That's right. So my producers
and I we love a good pun and we wanted
to actually start out with a little bit of foreplay.
So we have rapid fire questions for you. Let's do
How are you ready? So first thing that come to mind? Okay,
all right, okay, here we go. You wake up and
golf doesn't exist. What is your new passion? Dogs always
(01:40):
been the passion.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Now that's still my passion. That's actually it is actually
my passion. But like I would just be like a
dog trainer there, Yes, yes, okay, I love that.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
What's one thing LPGA players do better than PGA tour players.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Everything?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Everything, everything, every boys.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, sorry, I what are we talking about? Okay?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
You get to add one new rule to golf that
shakes things up.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
What is it? Oh? God? You know there are some
really archaic old school rules and I think they just
might need to open up that rule book, and like,
let's do a complete rehaul. I love what's happening LPGA
right now with the slow play violation. It's true because
people don't want to be out there for five six hours.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, I get that. And so for those of you
who are not familiar with the Golf rule Book, it's
a book.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
It's a book. It's a real book.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
It's a book. There's there's you know, ways that you're
supposed to drop, like from your knee, there are places
you're supposed to stand. There's so much etiquette to it.
So we can also get into that later, but we're
not doing rapid fire, and that was not very rapid fire.
But we do like the answer. Okay, okay, next, have
you ever gotten ghosted by an athlete for an interview? Oh?
Speaker 1 (02:52):
All the time?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Okay, name names all the time.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I mean, I think right now, I'm in a position
where I have a lot of athletes who are very
eager to work with with me, you know, which is
an amazing place to be. But early days I definitely
got ghosted. And I feel like I've said yes, but
to name a huge name. I don't want to put
them out there like that. No one in the women's space.
I will say no one in the women's space. So
(03:15):
women's space, they have been very eager.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Okay, all right? Who would be the best and worst
LPGA player to go out on to night with?
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Okay, best would be Charlie Holl' I'd go out with
her in a second. I think anyone would, to be honest, like,
just everything she's doing for golf, it's so fun and
you know, she just has her own personality and she's
bringing a flair to it that honestly, we need y
worst person savage, that's savage. Lexi Thompson, Maybe I don't.
(03:46):
I'm sorry, Lexi, I just don't. I think she just
got her because she's so serious. She's so serious out. Yeah,
she's not going out and that's the thing. And when
I go out, I want to have fun.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I'm gonna have fun, and she's she's.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Definitely not going out past eight pm and I'm definitely
going out past eight ps.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
She's definitely gonna wake up for a five am workout
and we're not going Yeah. One more, Who in golf
would make the best reality TV star?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I'm going to pick Charlie Hole again. I think she
is one right now. That people are very interested in.
And you know it's more than just the cigarettes, because
that's one part of it. Also, she's British, so like
everyone relaxed, but you know, she is someone that I
think has this flare to her. And you know she
talks about her training in the gym and how she
(04:30):
doesn't train for golf. I think that's fascinating. She definitely
loves fashion, so I'd watch that whole thing. I love
what she's doing with her sponsors, so I would love
to watch a reality show with her. It would give
us like the only way is essex. But Charlie Holver, Yes,
good point.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Well, we will get into all the personality into golf later,
but we have to start from the very beginning, where
how did golf step into your life?
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So I was thirteen when golf came into my life.
It was the summer before my freshman year of high school.
And I had played softball and I'd played basketball, volleyball.
I was just the sports girl. So I was playing
a little bit of everything at that point, and my
mom signed me up for golf camp and I'm like,
you are kidding me, golf, like really, And I show
(05:17):
up and I'm like one of two girls there and
the rest are little boys, you know, middle school boys
or even younger elementary school boys, and I'm like, what
am I doing here? Then I realized why she put
me in it, because everything clicked for me. I was
good at it. Number one, it came pretty natural. But
I loved the mental aspect of it, and I love
(05:38):
the solidarity part of it. I'd been on team sports
for so long, and I love a team, don't get
me wrong. But I also loved just being able to
go out on the course by myself and like I'm
competing with myself. And then I decided to try out
for the girls golf team at Wesley High School and
I make it, and you know, so far, so good,
(05:59):
having fun, and then I meet other girls that play golf,
and there was still just a small group of us,
but you know, I kind of fell in love with it.
I was playing softball still at that time, so softball
and golf with dual athletes. Dual athlete, but not the
sports to be a dual athlete. And I think a
lot of baseball players could tell you there's a reason
why they wait to start golf until after they retire,
(06:20):
because playing the two at the same time is very difficult,
like swing wise. Yeah, So you know, I stepped up
to the plate for softball that spring season and first
set bat, you're just going for a low one, and
my mom from the stands is like, this is not golf,
like it would be your own mom, you know sense
which we love. But then I kind of realized, like, wait,
(06:41):
do I even like softball as much as I like golf?
Like it really just became a passion. And then it
was college time. There was really for me no option
to abandon golf completely. But I also was like, I
don't want sports to be my entire life, which is
so funny.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Because what are we doing what we're talking about, And.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
You know, I think as a teenage girl, I think
that's a fair assessment. In the moment, you're thinking, like
you're seeing your friends and people be in sororities and
do all of that. But for me, I did know that,
like I wanted golf in my life. I just wasn't
sure if I wanted to go to a D one
school where golf was my entire life. Absolutely, and I
(07:24):
ended up at the University of California, Santa Cruz. It's
D three. So that's the beauty of it. D three.
You're like, hey, I'm going into this, but I know
I'm not going to have this rigorous travel schedule. I
worked at the radio station. I had a radio show
with one of my best friends, a riot girls show,
which is punk rock, all female bands. It was called
(07:45):
Bikini Kills, So we had that, and I was a
sporting director, so you know, I kind of always had
this place of like, I can do multiple things at once,
and like golf doesn't have to define me, but I
do love it.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So you were able to basically touch on everything that
you love and do now, yeah, so you still were
able to kind of keep everything together exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And that's where like I honed in on that at
Santa Cruz and Pasa Tiempo, which is an Alistair McKenzie design.
You know, most people like have that course on their
bucket list. I was playing there multiple times a week,
and I actually worked in the pro shop at one point,
and you know, so that was really cool for me.
And that's an experience that honestly, I'll never forget. But
(08:25):
then I went to Columbia for grad school, right, and
now I'm in New York city, and I'm focused on
journalism and a crash course of journalism ten month program.
I'm not golfing at all, right, you know, I'm broke
in the city. I'm not golfing. And you know, for me,
I thought, well, I don't really know where golf's going
to fit into my world. I have no idea, and
(08:47):
that was kind of the beauty of it, though, like
I didn't know, it wasn't forefront of my mind. And
then I took a big break from golf wild for
a long time until I moved back to La. Next thing,
you know, I think i'd posted one golf video. I
was at the driving range and all of a sudden,
it just like the golf world in La kind of
popped up. And then yeah, and then but then still
(09:09):
it was a little trial and error, right, Like you know,
you and I connected, love that connection. But as we know,
there are so many people in this industry that I
don't even know if they like golf, to be honest,
when you're working it, well yeah you're like, I don't
know if you even like it, which is fine. But
for me, I was at a place where I had
taken such a big break from it and I just
(09:32):
wanted to have fun. And it really wasn't until this
year that I found Bunker Club that I was like, wait,
now I have a community of people that love golf
but also want to have fun enjoy themselves of women women,
which is very yeah, and that's like, very very critical. Right,
Like when I was in Connecticut, I was surrounded by
(09:52):
a lot of men and that's who you know, those
guys were playing golf. And sometimes you're like, I was
just with you in the office all day. I don't
really want golf. And it's hard when you are the
token woman on the golf course, you know, and that's
something that I know you can relate to it. It's hard. Yeah,
So I think for me it took it was a
kind of a long journey to get there, to get
(10:14):
to loving golf again. Say that.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
So let's now touch on your career. So you went
to Columbia, right, and at first you were actually not
even going to go into sports, right, you were going
to go into political journalism. And so then what ultimately
made that switch in your mind?
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I had a professor at Columbia Journalism School. She was
actually the Master of Arts professor, the head the arts program.
I was in the Master of Science program, but she
taught a class called the Art of the Interview, which
I love. Obviously, the art of the interview is something
I'm always fascinated by, which is why I'm a journalist probably.
But she sat me down close to when the year
(11:15):
was kind of coming to a close, and she said,
why are you fighting? It's so hard to be, like,
you don't want to be a sports reporter, Like you're
fighting it, but I think it would be great at it.
But you're fighting at hardcore. Like I can tell that
you are trying not to do sports stories, and yet
when you do sports stories, you're really excelling and you're
(11:38):
blossoming and you're bringing something that we need in the
sports space. And I said to her, I said, you know,
I'm looking around me and I'm surrounded by peers who
are doing stories about wars, and you know, like these
just unbelievable projects that are making huge impacts. And she
looked at me and said, why do you believe that
your sports stories can't make an impact? Absolutely, I think
(12:01):
for so long I was pigeonholed. Right, you are a
young blonde woman from California. You say you want to
do sports, and I always got the like, do you
want to be Aaron Andrews? Right, thank you so much
for thinking that I could be Aaron Andrews. We adore
Aaron Andrews. She's a pioneer in this field. But I
did not want to be Aaron Andrews. I didn't want
(12:21):
to be a sideline reporter. I didn't really even want
to be on air. So I feared, you know, that
if I got into sports, I would just be like,
that's who you are. You're not a writer. You're going
to be asking like, hey, how was the game? You know, yes,
the question just didn't move me, and so it was
a professor though that was like like, snap out of it,
(12:43):
what are you talking about? You can do whatever you
want with the stories. And now, you know, I'm ten
years at ESPN this summer. I truly do believe that.
I feel that I feel like my stories make an impact,
and absolutely, you know, I feel like I've crafted it.
I've crafted this space for myself, and it took a
lot of time and effort. You know, it doesn't happen overnight,
(13:04):
and I wasn't expecting it to happen overnight, but it
took some time for me to be like, Okay, you
can be in this space and you can own it,
but you can redefine what it looks like and you
can also redefine it in multiple different spots too.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Absolutely, after Columbia, you sen there after got ESPN right,
and then you said that your first year was extremely humbling,
and I am all about the grind. I guess everyone
knows that about me because we're just we're just workhorses, right,
But I love the grind.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
We love the grind, right, That's.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Part of it. And I think people sometimes, especially with
social media, you wake up and you're like, she's a writer.
I'm gonna be a writer. But again, you've been at
ESPN for a long time. Take us back to how
it all began and what that first year was like
and how you got to where you are now.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I love that question because I mentor a lot of
young women in this space, and I'm all about the grind,
and I tell them like to be yeah, it's not easy,
and like you better be prepared to be humbled. You know. Here,
I am college golfer, had all of these things on
my resume, internships, radio station sports director, all of this stuff.
(14:09):
Then I have my master's from Columbia and the position
I'm offered is you know, I like to say it
was it felt like the equivalent of working in a
mailroom in the entertainment industry, you know, you are in
the basement. And I was literally in the basement of
one of the buildings at ESPN.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Same job, And I'm in a basement and oh, by
the way, like you're la and you're just living in
New York, but now you're going to move to Connecticut,
a place that you don't know anyone.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
And I knew that was going to happen, right like,
I was ready for that ESPN calls, You're not going
to say no. At least that's where I was at.
And I was a really really small fish in a
big pond. Still am I'm okay with that? Because I
had to put in the work and I was on
a project position and it was called content curator, which
(14:56):
is essentially a very fancy name for you get to
cut first take highlights and game highlights. This is what
you started it, and the instant of your writing is
headlines and captions, so wow, which honestly, headlines and captions
are really hard to write. So here I was, you know,
(15:17):
twenty two years old. I'm like, I'm going to write
the best headlines and captions for every single you know
clip that I cut, and they're all on ESPN dot
com and social media, and I'm like, oh, that's my headline. Okay,
I got that in there. I made it clear though
from the beginning, like I want to be a writer,
I want to be a reporter. And as it goes,
(15:37):
the person that hired me was laid off about a
month into me being in Bristol, and I was worried.
I was worried because he was a big advocate for me.
He knew that I was, you know, a golfer, he
knew that I had an interest in women's sports. And
then he's gone, and I'm thinking, well, now what do
I do? Where do I go? I'm also working really
(15:57):
odd shifts at ESPN, and a lot of people at
ESPN do work odd shifts because it's twenty four to seven.
So I was working really odd shifts, so sometimes I
wasn't in the office when the executives are the people
I needed to talk to were there, so I had
to really navigate, and my saving grace was ESPN the
magazine is still here and it's in Bristol, and the
(16:22):
magazine existed, so I'm like, I need to get over there.
Walked in the building one day and just met the
research chief, George Milcoff, and he said, look, I'm going
to have a part time fact checking position available, but
it's actually a step below the job you currently have.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
I was like, I don't care, Okay, I want that role.
And I knew that some of the best journalists in
the industry, not just the sports industry, just journalism industry,
were fact checkers. You know, like, let's be real, if
your facts are wrong, right, there's no credibility.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
So it's a.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Role and it's a very important leant and unfortunately a
lot of media outlets and organizations don't have that role anymore.
ESPN we do. And George Milcoff was my first boss
at ESPN the magazine, and he gave me a chance.
And you know, you have to take a research test,
which means like you have to be an encyclopedia of
(17:16):
sports knowledge. I was not an encyclopedia of sports knowledge.
I loved sports, but they knew that, Like that's what
I wanted. To do. I wanted to be at the magazine,
so fact checker, reporter, researcher, associate editor, and then last
year I signed a talent contract with ESPN. It's amazing.
That took nine years though, So that's why I tell
(17:36):
young women like it took nine years, and it doesn't
mean that just last year was the first time I
got a chance to write. I got the chance to
write and report when I was a fact checker at
the magazine, which was incredible and amazing for me. But
my first big break for writing was I knew women's golf.
We didn't have a women's golf reporter. Here's this, you know,
(17:57):
twenty something fact checker, reporter, researcher the magazine who knows
women's golf. Let's let her write some tournament previews and
you know, interview players, and let's have her do that.
And I was ecstatic to do that.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
That's amazing. It takes a lot of balls to be
able to really shape shift your own career, right, And
you could have just kept saying yes to whoever was
in charge of you, but you literally said no, I'm
gonna do it my way and so be it right.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
And that's a really scary thing to kind of take
control of that, right, I do say, I feel like
I do have lucky girl syndrome. I really like and
you know, you could believe in it or not. But
for me, I'm really blessed with the opportunities I've been
given and it's not lost on me. You know, I'm
very grateful and I work really hard at it and
(18:42):
I make sure that when I'm presented with certain opportunities,
I'm taking advantage of those. Right.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
So, you recently posted on social media and you use
the hashtag women in men's fields, and I think, obviously
I'm in it too, in a different way. Like golf
is a very male dominating the space. But I guess
I forget that sports journal it's still so male dominated.
But that being said, have you seen it improve? How
has that journey been for you in the last I
(19:07):
guess nine years now.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, honestly the last decade, I've seen it improve greatly.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
However, I am a long form writer. I do profile features.
I'm a features writer reporter. When it comes to women
who are features writers in the sports space, there's very
few of us, and you know, it's changing, it definitely
is changing, but it's still a pretty small group. And
that's really honestly, maybe just people don't want to be
(19:37):
doing long form journalism anymore. Maybe that's in part to it.
Maybe social media has just caught on so much that
people are realizing, well, I could write a three thousand
word story or I could hop on a TikTok and
talk about it for three minutes and that gets more views.
So that might be in part for the reason why.
But I still find my inbox flooded with young women saying,
(20:00):
you know, I want to talk to you about journalism.
I want to talk to you about writing. And it
for me has changed. I didn't have a mentor when
I started at ESPN. I didn't have a mentor for
a really long time until I joined this features unit group,
the Enterprise and Investigative Unit, And I am surrounded by
women who are powerhouses in the investigative space, women who
(20:25):
I've gone through the ranks with as well. But you know,
we're in it together. So I'm lucky that my department
is full of powerhouse women who are in this space,
but we are isolated. Get on cameras different you know,
we do have like those amazing trailblazers, and we have
Malika and we have l and you know, we have
(20:46):
these women who are just really doing their thing. But
when you talk about like the written word, that's a
different story. Not that many, not that many, and it's
still you look around and you're like, Okay, there's more
men still. And what I find as a woman who's
writing and reporting on women in sports, I get the
(21:06):
question a lot, not from my colleagues, from outsiders, and
sometimes from colleagues. I will say, there's every once in
a while, but is the goal to write about professional
male athletes? I find that so offensive beyond belief because
if that was my goal, that's what I would be doing, right,
and I have done that already. I don't want to
(21:26):
do that.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I want to first and foremost tell the most compelling
stories that are in sports. Yeah, just so happens. I
believe that most of the women stories in sports are
the most compelling right now. I agree, and I take
great pride in elevating and amplifying voices of women in sports.
So for me, you know, the do you want to
(21:49):
write about a guy in sports? Not?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Really?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
You know, good? And it just so happens I'm working
on a story right now about an incredible athlete from USC.
He is a man. His story is so compelling and beautiful,
and it's a story that I've been really advocating for
for many years. Those stories are going to come about.
But I do find myself really just drawn to women
in sports storytelling because those stories matter and we need them.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Going into women in sports, clearly there has been such
a positive shift, So I would like to hear I
guess from your perspective, like when did you feel like
women's sports went through a big shift? Like was it
characters in sports? Like what was it for you?
Speaker 1 (22:52):
I think the shift during the pandemic was a big shift.
I think women's college basketball had them where you know
Sedona Prince like she called out the inequalities for women's
basketball and college basketball, the weight room debate, that was huge.
I think that elevated it elevated it because also social
(23:14):
media was taking off at that time, TikTok was taking off.
So now we have the attention of millennials gen z
and then you had the WNBA also and is just
you know, they are changing the way that people view
women's sports. You can't really talk about like the evolution
(23:36):
of women's sports without acknowledging everything that the players in
the w have done for the characters, the characters and
the ones who aren't afraid to speak up and share
their voice and share their opinions and talk about you know,
this isn't cool. We were not saying that we should
be paid exactly the same as the men, but pay
us fairly. Absolutely, And look, women's soccer is a huge
(23:59):
part of that. I think though this shift has really happened,
I'm not going to say it's the Kitlin Clark shift.
I'm not gonna like Caitlin Clark has definitely elevated the space.
Angelies elevated the space that rivalry too. We need more
of that. Yes, the more that we can get that
the better. Absolutely, you know, it draws people in. We
see that on the men's side all the time. We
(24:20):
want the drama. Let's be real, we want the drama.
Men the competitive give us drama and scores every single day.
And women, I find have been so worried about appearance
and how they're going to be characterized by the media
and by the audience, by fans that they don't want
to ruffle any feathers. But now we're seeing, like, you
(24:41):
know what I'm here, this is who I am and
that's powerful, right, and that's what I hope to see
for the LPGA.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I was just going to ask you, because it's clear
that women's golf is in an upward trajectory, what is
it that you think that they need so that we
can have our WNBA and WSL moment.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
LPGA has been around for what almost one hundred years,
and there have been a lot of game changers in
the LPGA, a lot of women. The founders alone, what
they did there was a moment years and years ago.
I can't I don't know the exact moment, but the
LPGA was like, we're going to have child's care at
every single tournament. They set that tone. We're just now
(25:22):
seeing that in the NWSL. They are just now allowing,
not allowing, because allowing the wrong word, but you know,
basically saying like, hey, we are going to have these
resources for you. You can be a mother, you can
be a player. You don't have to decide, you don't
have to choose, you don't have to make that decision.
LPGA did that a long time ago. That was a
(25:45):
moment that could have made a really big cultural shift,
and it didn't. No, I think it went under the radar.
I think most people don't even know that that is
a resource for mothers on tour and that's something that
a lot of the leads to implement and are implementing.
I think what we find with LPGA golfers and golfers
(26:06):
in general, and I think it's due to the nature
of the sport. Yes, you are buttoned up traditional traditional.
To have an opinion is to be wrong.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
And that's the hard part, right, because we have to
almost change the culture of the entire game. But we
can try, and I guess influence Let's say the women
in the game now to try and speak. So if
you could give the girls on tour or the girls,
any girls that's really coming into the game, what would
you tell them so that we can have our huge
(26:41):
pivotal moment that we deserve.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
First talk to me, let's talk because share that is
that's a huge roadblock. I do fine with women's golf.
Is this desire to have publicity, right, and then we
go okay, great, let to do it. And then you're
saying no, or you're being skittish or you're keeping it
(27:05):
very surface level and very I like to call it fluff.
I don't write fluff pieces.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Like what's the story?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, I don't write fluff pieces. And so I will
say roseng last year was incredible and she went there
with me. She was vulnerable, she got emotional, and we
had a really really beautiful profile feature on Rose in
the summer on ESPN dot com. As a result, it
also took months and months of me making sure that
(27:31):
Rose felt comfortable with right and trusted me. It shouldn't
have to take months and months and months for every
single player. Rose was a very specific one. We knew
we wanted to do a long form feature. I was
in it for the long haul with her and I
wanted her to go there with me, and she did.
But what I fear is that women on tour are
so afraid to even have any opinion, And to be honest,
(27:54):
the men aren't any better, you know, they just are
kind of living in their live and PGA world, so
they just think that that is having a position on
something for them. But I really would hope that the
women on tour understand that, like, the more we see
who you are, the more people are going to want
to follow you. And it goes back to the slogan
(28:17):
that the LPGA had for a long time. Hugs not handshakes.
Why not a handshake?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yeah, you don't.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Need to hug everyone you need, you know, But I
think that kind of facilitated that, Hey, we have to
be friends. Yeah, let's keep it peaceful, let's keep it PG.
I don't ruffle any feathers. Feathers and some women they
don't want to ruffle feathers. And I'm not saying, you know,
you have to go be a rebel and take a
stance on something. I just would like them to take
(28:46):
a you know, a stance on.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Anything, just like you can general in general.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
And you know, don't also let it fall on the
shoulders of the top ten. Let's make sure sure that
we're fostering a space so that women don't just have
a seat at these tables, but they own the table,
they own the studio, they own wherever they're at, you know,
they own that space. And for women's golf, I just
(29:13):
fear that they're like always nervous that it's going to
be taken away from me.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
And I feel like, you know, I've been able to
interview a few LPGA players now and just have really
close quarter conversations. And I think what's so hard is
that within the LPGA tour, it seems that there is
like a culture there. The LPGA players are given like
these media answers and they're like, okay, we're not making
the tour mad, and the tour is also trying to
help them, but also still trying to keep it very safe.
(29:38):
And I'm like, no, we just need like a do over.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I don't know why that's so.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I think it's hard because there are certain players that
just want to play golf.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Unfortunately, when you are a professional athlete, you can't say
that you want more people to watch. If you are
going to just show up and play golf, you need
to do a little bit more, right. You know, we
look at men and the top athletes. Some of them
are just like I just want to, you know, play basketball,
just to play football. But they still are outspoken on
(30:09):
certain topics. Yeah they you know, they say that, but
they still are talking and you know, giving interviews or
not giving interviews. But it becomes a moment and so
I would love for the women to just find their
voice maybe a little bit more, and I think that
falls on the media. I think it falls on us.
You know, we have to do a better job of
finding those stories, finding those characters. You know, Let's make
(30:33):
sure that we are giving you a voice and it's
not cookie cutter, and let the men do what they're
going to do. Let's stop comparing the two tours because
they're different. Yes, they're so different. And I would love
to see, you know, more group events essentially, you know
what's happening with TGL. Like that would be great.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
If we could have a woman include women.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I think that.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Would be like have meant and women together, So that
would I think that would really really amplify and bring
out the women's personalities without having to feel so like controlled,
you know. And I think that's the goal.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
And you just allow them to be in a space
that they feel safe, right, And that's the biggest thing. Yeah,
and that's why, Like I don't know if some of
them are just not feeling that. I think it's the
travel schedule part of it too. It's a grind, you know,
you all you round sport all year round and if
you don't make the cut, you're not making money. So,
you know, I think a lot of people who maybe
(31:31):
are casual golf fans, they don't understand that, so they
do question. They wonder, you know, it would be great
too to see a professional women's event at Augusta. You know,
let's put these women in places. And that's happening with
the US Women's Open. But let's keep doing it, let's
keep raising the bar.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
No, I agree, So how has it been covering women's
sports in general versus women's golf when you're trying to
do profiles?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
So this is a great question to because I actually
haven't really like sat down and thought about it, you know,
because I'm just in the moment. You know. I'll say
I do a lot of women's basketball stories and women's
soccer stories.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
And I'll assume they're probably more open.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
They are more open, and I think part of it
is the nature of their sport. Yeah, the confidence that
they have to have when they step out on the pitch.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Also, a team sports team, you got your people behind.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
You, You're girls with you, you have and you have
a whole team behind you. Yeah, you know, I think
that makes a difference. I do find that golfers just
need that safe space a little bit more, and and look,
I always say if someone was like, hey, can I
write a profile about your life, I'd be like, no,
thank you, Thanks, I'm good. So, you know, I understand that,
(32:49):
like it's a lot to ask of these athletes. It's
a lot to ask of the athletes, the families, you know,
it's just it's a lot. Yeah, And so I do
think that with there's just that extra layer of like,
let's make sure the time is dedicated to them. That
saves space. But I do that with all of my athletes.
(33:10):
I'm not kind of singling them out, like I'm not like, Okay,
it's a golfer, so I got to do this. Yeah,
I love interviewing, and I love interviewing for the fact
that it's a vulnerable space you have to take the
time and just earning their trust is huge. So the
difference is I think the bravado perhaps, you know, and
in some of them, like especially my girls, who are
(33:30):
number one in their class for basketball. They're number one
for a reason because on the court they're incredible, but
they've got that swagger, they have that whole thing. They
want to be forward facing. Hey, come out to this practice,
come out to this game, come out. Let's do whatever.
I do have athletes where it's a little bit more
of like, Okay, maybe you can come out. Okay, you
(33:52):
came out to this you know this practice? Yeah yeah, okay,
so yeah, and almost like there's a secret and I'm like,
just trust me, let me go. Yeah. Like I'm like,
I am a safe space for you. And that might
sound really bizarre because a journalist doesn't seem like a
safe space, but I'm doing a profile feature on you,
(34:14):
and I am also on this journey with you. A
lot of my subjects are trying to figure out who
they are, and through the process of these profiles, we
aren't one undred percent identifying who they are, because that's
impossible for anyone at any point in their life to
know what one hundred percent with certainty who they are.
But I find a lot of the times after the fact,
(34:35):
these young women, their families, they go, WHOA, we didn't
even know that that's what I was doing, And you
helped me understand a little bit more about my characteristics,
my habits, and what I want. I'm also not trying
to pull a fast one on anyone. The facts are
going to be right. We can't ignore facts either, But
(34:58):
you know, running through. This is what on the record means,
This is what on background means at the records want
some of these people this is the first time they're
having these big moments, right.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
You know? This is again something that you and I
were just chatting about outside of this pod, that there
are there's so much interest in women's sports right now.
There's so many people that want to invest in golf.
But what's so interesting about it is that the people
who really want the growth of the game to happen
also seemingly are not comfortable with perhaps the newer voices.
(35:28):
And you're someone who's in hard media, and I feel
like you're very accepting of any and all voices. So
I guess, like that being said, like, how do we
change that mindset so that we can only just grow
for the greater goods?
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah? I just feel like for me, I want us
all to kumbay off, yes, and to understand that, like,
my work will just be elevated by your work. Yeah,
your work will be elevated by my work. You are
not claiming to be a features writer, right, I'm not
claiming to be a influencer podcast host. I think identifying
(36:05):
our roles and all of This is very important and
understanding that your roles can change, you know, and I
think I want, especially the women in sports media, women
in golf media, we can all be in this together
and we don't have to be competitive with each other
and fight over it. You know, this is not high school.
(36:26):
I already went to high school. I'm good. You know,
I'm done. I went to high school. I'm a grown
adult now. I understand that. You know, I'm secure in
my career. And I think that's what it comes down to,
right people who are going to maybe criticize, talk poorly,
talk behind our backs. They're not in a secure place.
(36:47):
And that's when I just say, I will pray for you,
and you know, I hope you find your community. I
have found my community. Yeah, absolutely, I find your community
that lifts you up so that you don't have to
take people down.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I love that answer.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
And I think acknowledging too, like, if you are in
this space for the male gaze, that's fine. Don't pretend
you are in this space to elevate aolutely women. Let's
not flip flop on that, because those are the narratives
that then become confusing to the outside world, and then
they look at women like us, and they're like, are
(37:23):
you just here for the male gaze? You just here?
That is a big issue. I think that we are
facing kind of in women's golf right now. Yeah, in
non professional women's golf, you know. And I think that's okay.
If you just want to post certain photos for the
male gaze, more power to you. I love that for
you own that narrative for sure. Don't knock me down though.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Because I'm doing something.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
I'm doing something different, very different my followers. I always
say my followers are mostly women, and that just is
what it is, you know, and could be shocking to some,
could not get others, But most of my followers are women,
and so for me, I'm you know, and I'm always
for the girls, like I dress for the girls.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
I do.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Like that's just who I am. If that's not who
you are, that's okay, right, We accept you for that. Yeah,
we love you for that. But let's just all understand
that all of our rules play a part in how
outside perception.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yes, and the grand scheme of things.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yes, the grand scheme of things. So, like, let's just understand,
I want to elevate the sport. You want to elevate
the sport. I want more young and girls and boys
to play the sport. Yeah that's my mission right.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Well, end the hard interview at that we do have
a fun game as we only have a couple minutes.
So the game is real or fake headline, This game
was customized.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Just for you. Oh my gosh, this is gonna be hard.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Are you ready this?
Speaker 1 (38:48):
We are in a world of headlines that seems so fake.
I is going to be very difficult, but I am ready.
Now I'm sweating. But it's all fun. Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
First, one reel or fake LPGA player miked up during
round drops f bomb on live TV.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Real.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Absolutely, Charlie Hull, twenty twenty three. That's great and that's great.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Love it.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Okay. Next, NCAA women's golf team forced to withdraw a
mid tournament due to a single lost golf bag.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
A single lolf that seems fake. You could still keep playing.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
You would think, But because of that lost golf bag,
they had to reel headline and they had to withdraw.
It happened to Oregon State in twenty three. I know,
I know how what I know?
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I mean, I showed up, But golf tournaments my driver was,
you know, got broke and like the travel and everything,
and he's still playing I.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Think a whole lost golf. Who's you got to fun?
Go find a set, I guess, yeah, go find a set. Okay,
all right. W NBA stars signs endorsement deal with Taco
Bell demands free crunch Raps for life.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
No, that is fake. Good job. That sounds amazing, but I.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Would I could see it happening.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
But that is I really hope that someone after that
you write that head like, let's make it a real head. Yeah, yeah,
buddy's a man. Crunch Traps for life.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Okay, LPGA pro wins a car with a whole one
immediately gives it to her caddie.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
That's real.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Good job, Amy Olsen in twenty twenty. Yeah that was
a very bad Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Last one, Tisha
Allen puts an ento rumors about dating Tiger Woods.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
You guys, that's real.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Now you had to while, yeah, you had to like and.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
That's but that's the thing that's crazy. That's a real headline.
Because you're a woman in sports, it's automatic that you
want to date an athlete. It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
And it's like one picture beside me and Tiger, and
I'm like, you, guys.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
I see that. I can see it in my mind.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
It was just one photo. Yes, I think you know
which one. And then I'm like, I'm so gay, guys.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
But wow, that's but that's hard and yeah, it's hard
for young women, yeah, to see because they don't want
to come into this space and just be told you're
in this space because you want to date an athlete
or you're dating an athlete or whatever. That is very
real and you had to live that.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
I know, and you know what though, like okay, but
also no, very not but also know.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
And like you are happily engaged and so yes, anyway,
exactly that is the game.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
And that wraps it up. Charlotte, thank you so much
for joining the party. I really enjoyed our chat. Where
can everyone find you before we let you go?
Speaker 1 (41:29):
I mean, you can find me on Instagram and Charlotte
Sue okay, Sue, I post a lot of my stories
on there, and I have a couple of TV features
coming out spring summer, so you can stay tuned for that.
Just google me. Yeah, if you really want to read
my such to google.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Google Google find it or look at the very end
of any ESPN or espn W article and you made it.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
See yeah. And then also you can subscribe to the
espnW newsletter and I write it every month, so amazing.
You get a little taste of my voice and what
I find to be the most interesting and compelling stories
of the month. Love that. Thank you, Thank you. Thanks.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Welcome to the Party with Tasha Allen is an Iheartwoman's
sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports Entertainment. I'm
your host, Tisha Allen. Julia Weaver is our lead producer
and showrunner. Our executive producers are Christina Everett and Jesse Katz.
Special thanks to Jess McCallister and the teams at GERSH
and Catalyst nine. Listen to Welcome to the Party with
Tasha Allen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
(42:40):
you get your podcasts.
I don't want to look like I'm a giant next
(00:01):
to you. I don't want to look like I'm a giant.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I actually don't think I can go anything.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I did that with Kevin Hart.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You interviewed Kevin Hart.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Yeah, it was a New York City Marathon and we
were sitting at the Nike headquarters in New York and
We're sitting on a couch and the camera guy that
was there just was like new he was very green,
and I'm an angle. It was just like my body
and then like little Kevin. And then like the comments
were like savage and they were like whoa, she's an
(00:30):
Amazon woman. And I'm like, I'm five five angles angles. Yeah,
I was like, I'm five to five. I'm not that tall.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I'm very excited to introduce my next guest for so
many reasons. She is such a force in the sports
journalism world. She's a writer for ESPN, ESPN W. Basically,
if there's a story to be told or a profile
to be made, especially for females or women in sports,
you're going to see it from her. She has become
such a dear friend of mine. Our puppies love to
play together. We now go on brunch dates so our
(01:07):
puppies can hang and we're moms. We just get the chill. So,
without further ado, Charlotte Gibson, welcome to the party.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Thank you. I'm happy to be here. I'm so happy.
I'm happy to be at the party.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, the par dash tea. That's right. So my producers
and I we love a good pun and we wanted
to actually start out with a little bit of foreplay.
So we have rapid fire questions for you. Let's do
How are you ready? So first thing that come to mind? Okay,
all right, okay, here we go. You wake up and
golf doesn't exist. What is your new passion? Dogs always
(01:40):
been the passion.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Now that's still my passion. That's actually it is actually
my passion. But like I would just be like a
dog trainer there, Yes, yes, okay, I love that.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
What's one thing LPGA players do better than PGA tour players.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Everything?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Everything, everything, every boys.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, sorry, I what are we talking about? Okay?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
You get to add one new rule to golf that
shakes things up.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
What is it? Oh? God? You know there are some
really archaic old school rules and I think they just
might need to open up that rule book, and like,
let's do a complete rehaul. I love what's happening LPGA
right now with the slow play violation. It's true because
people don't want to be out there for five six hours.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, I get that. And so for those of you
who are not familiar with the Golf rule Book, it's
a book.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
It's a book. It's a real book.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
It's a book. There's there's you know, ways that you're
supposed to drop, like from your knee, there are places
you're supposed to stand. There's so much etiquette to it.
So we can also get into that later, but we're
not doing rapid fire, and that was not very rapid fire.
But we do like the answer. Okay, okay, next, have
you ever gotten ghosted by an athlete for an interview? Oh?
Speaker 1 (02:52):
All the time?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Okay, name names all the time.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I mean, I think right now, I'm in a position
where I have a lot of athletes who are very
eager to work with with me, you know, which is
an amazing place to be. But early days I definitely
got ghosted. And I feel like I've said yes, but
to name a huge name. I don't want to put
them out there like that. No one in the women's space.
I will say no one in the women's space. So
(03:15):
women's space, they have been very eager.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Okay, all right? Who would be the best and worst
LPGA player to go out on to night with?
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Okay, best would be Charlie Holl' I'd go out with
her in a second. I think anyone would, to be honest, like,
just everything she's doing for golf, it's so fun and
you know, she just has her own personality and she's
bringing a flair to it that honestly, we need y
worst person savage, that's savage. Lexi Thompson, Maybe I don't.
(03:46):
I'm sorry, Lexi, I just don't. I think she just
got her because she's so serious. She's so serious out. Yeah,
she's not going out and that's the thing. And when
I go out, I want to have fun.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I'm gonna have fun, and she's she's.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Definitely not going out past eight pm and I'm definitely
going out past eight ps.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
She's definitely gonna wake up for a five am workout
and we're not going Yeah. One more, Who in golf
would make the best reality TV star?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I'm going to pick Charlie Hole again. I think she
is one right now. That people are very interested in.
And you know it's more than just the cigarettes, because
that's one part of it. Also, she's British, so like
everyone relaxed, but you know, she is someone that I
think has this flare to her. And you know she
talks about her training in the gym and how she
(04:30):
doesn't train for golf. I think that's fascinating. She definitely
loves fashion, so I'd watch that whole thing. I love
what she's doing with her sponsors, so I would love
to watch a reality show with her. It would give
us like the only way is essex. But Charlie Holver, Yes,
good point.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Well, we will get into all the personality into golf later,
but we have to start from the very beginning, where
how did golf step into your life?
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So I was thirteen when golf came into my life.
It was the summer before my freshman year of high school.
And I had played softball and I'd played basketball, volleyball.
I was just the sports girl. So I was playing
a little bit of everything at that point, and my
mom signed me up for golf camp and I'm like,
you are kidding me, golf, like really, And I show
(05:17):
up and I'm like one of two girls there and
the rest are little boys, you know, middle school boys
or even younger elementary school boys, and I'm like, what
am I doing here? Then I realized why she put
me in it, because everything clicked for me. I was
good at it. Number one, it came pretty natural. But
I loved the mental aspect of it, and I love
(05:38):
the solidarity part of it. I'd been on team sports
for so long, and I love a team, don't get
me wrong. But I also loved just being able to
go out on the course by myself and like I'm
competing with myself. And then I decided to try out
for the girls golf team at Wesley High School and
I make it, and you know, so far, so good,
(05:59):
having fun, and then I meet other girls that play golf,
and there was still just a small group of us,
but you know, I kind of fell in love with it.
I was playing softball still at that time, so softball
and golf with dual athletes. Dual athlete, but not the
sports to be a dual athlete. And I think a
lot of baseball players could tell you there's a reason
why they wait to start golf until after they retire,
(06:20):
because playing the two at the same time is very difficult,
like swing wise. Yeah, So you know, I stepped up
to the plate for softball that spring season and first
set bat, you're just going for a low one, and
my mom from the stands is like, this is not golf,
like it would be your own mom, you know sense
which we love. But then I kind of realized, like, wait,
(06:41):
do I even like softball as much as I like golf?
Like it really just became a passion. And then it
was college time. There was really for me no option
to abandon golf completely. But I also was like, I
don't want sports to be my entire life, which is
so funny.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Because what are we doing what we're talking about, And.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
You know, I think as a teenage girl, I think
that's a fair assessment. In the moment, you're thinking, like
you're seeing your friends and people be in sororities and
do all of that. But for me, I did know that,
like I wanted golf in my life. I just wasn't
sure if I wanted to go to a D one
school where golf was my entire life. Absolutely, and I
(07:24):
ended up at the University of California, Santa Cruz. It's
D three. So that's the beauty of it. D three.
You're like, hey, I'm going into this, but I know
I'm not going to have this rigorous travel schedule. I
worked at the radio station. I had a radio show
with one of my best friends, a riot girls show,
which is punk rock, all female bands. It was called
(07:45):
Bikini Kills, So we had that, and I was a
sporting director, so you know, I kind of always had
this place of like, I can do multiple things at once,
and like golf doesn't have to define me, but I
do love it.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So you were able to basically touch on everything that
you love and do now, yeah, so you still were
able to kind of keep everything together exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And that's where like I honed in on that at
Santa Cruz and Pasa Tiempo, which is an Alistair McKenzie design.
You know, most people like have that course on their
bucket list. I was playing there multiple times a week,
and I actually worked in the pro shop at one point,
and you know, so that was really cool for me.
And that's an experience that honestly, I'll never forget. But
(08:25):
then I went to Columbia for grad school, right, and
now I'm in New York city, and I'm focused on
journalism and a crash course of journalism ten month program.
I'm not golfing at all, right, you know, I'm broke
in the city. I'm not golfing. And you know, for me,
I thought, well, I don't really know where golf's going
to fit into my world. I have no idea, and
(08:47):
that was kind of the beauty of it, though, like
I didn't know, it wasn't forefront of my mind. And
then I took a big break from golf wild for
a long time until I moved back to La. Next thing,
you know, I think i'd posted one golf video. I
was at the driving range and all of a sudden,
it just like the golf world in La kind of
popped up. And then yeah, and then but then still
(09:09):
it was a little trial and error, right, Like you know,
you and I connected, love that connection. But as we know,
there are so many people in this industry that I
don't even know if they like golf, to be honest,
when you're working it, well yeah you're like, I don't
know if you even like it, which is fine. But
for me, I was at a place where I had
taken such a big break from it and I just
(09:32):
wanted to have fun. And it really wasn't until this
year that I found Bunker Club that I was like, wait,
now I have a community of people that love golf
but also want to have fun enjoy themselves of women women,
which is very yeah, and that's like, very very critical. Right,
Like when I was in Connecticut, I was surrounded by
(09:52):
a lot of men and that's who you know, those
guys were playing golf. And sometimes you're like, I was
just with you in the office all day. I don't
really want golf. And it's hard when you are the
token woman on the golf course, you know, and that's
something that I know you can relate to it. It's hard. Yeah,
So I think for me it took it was a
kind of a long journey to get there, to get
(10:14):
to loving golf again. Say that.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
So let's now touch on your career. So you went
to Columbia, right, and at first you were actually not
even going to go into sports, right, you were going
to go into political journalism. And so then what ultimately
made that switch in your mind?
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I had a professor at Columbia Journalism School. She was
actually the Master of Arts professor, the head the arts program.
I was in the Master of Science program, but she
taught a class called the Art of the Interview, which
I love. Obviously, the art of the interview is something
I'm always fascinated by, which is why I'm a journalist probably.
But she sat me down close to when the year
(11:15):
was kind of coming to a close, and she said,
why are you fighting? It's so hard to be, like,
you don't want to be a sports reporter, Like you're
fighting it, but I think it would be great at it.
But you're fighting at hardcore. Like I can tell that
you are trying not to do sports stories, and yet
when you do sports stories, you're really excelling and you're
(11:38):
blossoming and you're bringing something that we need in the
sports space. And I said to her, I said, you know,
I'm looking around me and I'm surrounded by peers who
are doing stories about wars, and you know, like these
just unbelievable projects that are making huge impacts. And she
looked at me and said, why do you believe that
your sports stories can't make an impact? Absolutely, I think
(12:01):
for so long I was pigeonholed. Right, you are a
young blonde woman from California. You say you want to
do sports, and I always got the like, do you
want to be Aaron Andrews? Right, thank you so much
for thinking that I could be Aaron Andrews. We adore
Aaron Andrews. She's a pioneer in this field. But I
did not want to be Aaron Andrews. I didn't want
(12:21):
to be a sideline reporter. I didn't really even want
to be on air. So I feared, you know, that
if I got into sports, I would just be like,
that's who you are. You're not a writer. You're going
to be asking like, hey, how was the game? You know, yes,
the question just didn't move me, and so it was
a professor though that was like like, snap out of it,
(12:43):
what are you talking about? You can do whatever you
want with the stories. And now, you know, I'm ten
years at ESPN this summer. I truly do believe that.
I feel that I feel like my stories make an impact,
and absolutely, you know, I feel like I've crafted it.
I've crafted this space for myself, and it took a
lot of time and effort. You know, it doesn't happen overnight,
(13:04):
and I wasn't expecting it to happen overnight, but it
took some time for me to be like, Okay, you
can be in this space and you can own it,
but you can redefine what it looks like and you
can also redefine it in multiple different spots too.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Absolutely, after Columbia, you sen there after got ESPN right,
and then you said that your first year was extremely humbling,
and I am all about the grind. I guess everyone
knows that about me because we're just we're just workhorses, right,
But I love the grind.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
We love the grind, right, That's.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Part of it. And I think people sometimes, especially with
social media, you wake up and you're like, she's a writer.
I'm gonna be a writer. But again, you've been at
ESPN for a long time. Take us back to how
it all began and what that first year was like
and how you got to where you are now.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I love that question because I mentor a lot of
young women in this space, and I'm all about the grind,
and I tell them like to be yeah, it's not easy,
and like you better be prepared to be humbled. You know. Here,
I am college golfer, had all of these things on
my resume, internships, radio station sports director, all of this stuff.
(14:09):
Then I have my master's from Columbia and the position
I'm offered is you know, I like to say it
was it felt like the equivalent of working in a
mailroom in the entertainment industry, you know, you are in
the basement. And I was literally in the basement of
one of the buildings at ESPN.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Same job, And I'm in a basement and oh, by
the way, like you're la and you're just living in
New York, but now you're going to move to Connecticut,
a place that you don't know anyone.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
And I knew that was going to happen, right like,
I was ready for that ESPN calls, You're not going
to say no. At least that's where I was at.
And I was a really really small fish in a
big pond. Still am I'm okay with that? Because I
had to put in the work and I was on
a project position and it was called content curator, which
(14:56):
is essentially a very fancy name for you get to
cut first take highlights and game highlights. This is what
you started it, and the instant of your writing is
headlines and captions, so wow, which honestly, headlines and captions
are really hard to write. So here I was, you know,
(15:17):
twenty two years old. I'm like, I'm going to write
the best headlines and captions for every single you know
clip that I cut, and they're all on ESPN dot
com and social media, and I'm like, oh, that's my headline. Okay,
I got that in there. I made it clear though
from the beginning, like I want to be a writer,
I want to be a reporter. And as it goes,
(15:37):
the person that hired me was laid off about a
month into me being in Bristol, and I was worried.
I was worried because he was a big advocate for me.
He knew that I was, you know, a golfer, he
knew that I had an interest in women's sports. And
then he's gone, and I'm thinking, well, now what do
I do? Where do I go? I'm also working really
(15:57):
odd shifts at ESPN, and a lot of people at
ESPN do work odd shifts because it's twenty four to seven.
So I was working really odd shifts, so sometimes I
wasn't in the office when the executives are the people
I needed to talk to were there, so I had
to really navigate, and my saving grace was ESPN the
magazine is still here and it's in Bristol, and the
(16:22):
magazine existed, so I'm like, I need to get over there.
Walked in the building one day and just met the
research chief, George Milcoff, and he said, look, I'm going
to have a part time fact checking position available, but
it's actually a step below the job you currently have.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
I was like, I don't care, Okay, I want that role.
And I knew that some of the best journalists in
the industry, not just the sports industry, just journalism industry,
were fact checkers. You know, like, let's be real, if
your facts are wrong, right, there's no credibility.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
So it's a.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Role and it's a very important leant and unfortunately a
lot of media outlets and organizations don't have that role anymore.
ESPN we do. And George Milcoff was my first boss
at ESPN the magazine, and he gave me a chance.
And you know, you have to take a research test,
which means like you have to be an encyclopedia of
(17:16):
sports knowledge. I was not an encyclopedia of sports knowledge.
I loved sports, but they knew that, Like that's what
I wanted. To do. I wanted to be at the magazine,
so fact checker, reporter, researcher, associate editor, and then last
year I signed a talent contract with ESPN. It's amazing.
That took nine years though, So that's why I tell
(17:36):
young women like it took nine years, and it doesn't
mean that just last year was the first time I
got a chance to write. I got the chance to
write and report when I was a fact checker at
the magazine, which was incredible and amazing for me. But
my first big break for writing was I knew women's golf.
We didn't have a women's golf reporter. Here's this, you know,
(17:57):
twenty something fact checker, reporter, researcher the magazine who knows
women's golf. Let's let her write some tournament previews and
you know, interview players, and let's have her do that.
And I was ecstatic to do that.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
That's amazing. It takes a lot of balls to be
able to really shape shift your own career, right, And
you could have just kept saying yes to whoever was
in charge of you, but you literally said no, I'm
gonna do it my way and so be it right.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
And that's a really scary thing to kind of take
control of that, right, I do say, I feel like
I do have lucky girl syndrome. I really like and
you know, you could believe in it or not. But
for me, I'm really blessed with the opportunities I've been
given and it's not lost on me. You know, I'm
very grateful and I work really hard at it and
(18:42):
I make sure that when I'm presented with certain opportunities,
I'm taking advantage of those. Right.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
So, you recently posted on social media and you use
the hashtag women in men's fields, and I think, obviously
I'm in it too, in a different way. Like golf
is a very male dominating the space. But I guess
I forget that sports journal it's still so male dominated.
But that being said, have you seen it improve? How
has that journey been for you in the last I
(19:07):
guess nine years now.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, honestly the last decade, I've seen it improve greatly.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
However, I am a long form writer. I do profile features.
I'm a features writer reporter. When it comes to women
who are features writers in the sports space, there's very
few of us, and you know, it's changing, it definitely
is changing, but it's still a pretty small group. And
that's really honestly, maybe just people don't want to be
(19:37):
doing long form journalism anymore. Maybe that's in part to it.
Maybe social media has just caught on so much that
people are realizing, well, I could write a three thousand
word story or I could hop on a TikTok and
talk about it for three minutes and that gets more views.
So that might be in part for the reason why.
But I still find my inbox flooded with young women saying,
(20:00):
you know, I want to talk to you about journalism.
I want to talk to you about writing. And it
for me has changed. I didn't have a mentor when
I started at ESPN. I didn't have a mentor for
a really long time until I joined this features unit group,
the Enterprise and Investigative Unit, And I am surrounded by
women who are powerhouses in the investigative space, women who
(20:25):
I've gone through the ranks with as well. But you know,
we're in it together. So I'm lucky that my department
is full of powerhouse women who are in this space,
but we are isolated. Get on cameras different you know,
we do have like those amazing trailblazers, and we have
Malika and we have l and you know, we have
(20:46):
these women who are just really doing their thing. But
when you talk about like the written word, that's a
different story. Not that many, not that many, and it's
still you look around and you're like, Okay, there's more
men still. And what I find as a woman who's
writing and reporting on women in sports, I get the
(21:06):
question a lot, not from my colleagues, from outsiders, and
sometimes from colleagues. I will say, there's every once in
a while, but is the goal to write about professional
male athletes? I find that so offensive beyond belief because
if that was my goal, that's what I would be doing, right,
and I have done that already. I don't want to
(21:26):
do that.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I want to first and foremost tell the most compelling
stories that are in sports. Yeah, just so happens. I
believe that most of the women stories in sports are
the most compelling right now. I agree, and I take
great pride in elevating and amplifying voices of women in sports.
So for me, you know, the do you want to
(21:49):
write about a guy in sports? Not?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Really?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
You know, good? And it just so happens I'm working
on a story right now about an incredible athlete from USC.
He is a man. His story is so compelling and beautiful,
and it's a story that I've been really advocating for
for many years. Those stories are going to come about.
But I do find myself really just drawn to women
in sports storytelling because those stories matter and we need them.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Going into women in sports, clearly there has been such
a positive shift, So I would like to hear I
guess from your perspective, like when did you feel like
women's sports went through a big shift? Like was it
characters in sports? Like what was it for you?
Speaker 1 (22:52):
I think the shift during the pandemic was a big shift.
I think women's college basketball had them where you know
Sedona Prince like she called out the inequalities for women's
basketball and college basketball, the weight room debate, that was huge.
I think that elevated it elevated it because also social
(23:14):
media was taking off at that time, TikTok was taking off.
So now we have the attention of millennials gen z
and then you had the WNBA also and is just
you know, they are changing the way that people view
women's sports. You can't really talk about like the evolution
(23:36):
of women's sports without acknowledging everything that the players in
the w have done for the characters, the characters and
the ones who aren't afraid to speak up and share
their voice and share their opinions and talk about you know,
this isn't cool. We were not saying that we should
be paid exactly the same as the men, but pay
us fairly. Absolutely, And look, women's soccer is a huge
(23:59):
part of that. I think though this shift has really happened,
I'm not going to say it's the Kitlin Clark shift.
I'm not gonna like Caitlin Clark has definitely elevated the space.
Angelies elevated the space that rivalry too. We need more
of that. Yes, the more that we can get that
the better. Absolutely, you know, it draws people in. We
see that on the men's side all the time. We
(24:20):
want the drama. Let's be real, we want the drama.
Men the competitive give us drama and scores every single day.
And women, I find have been so worried about appearance
and how they're going to be characterized by the media
and by the audience, by fans that they don't want
to ruffle any feathers. But now we're seeing, like, you
(24:41):
know what I'm here, this is who I am and
that's powerful, right, and that's what I hope to see
for the LPGA.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I was just going to ask you, because it's clear
that women's golf is in an upward trajectory, what is
it that you think that they need so that we
can have our WNBA and WSL moment.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
LPGA has been around for what almost one hundred years,
and there have been a lot of game changers in
the LPGA, a lot of women. The founders alone, what
they did there was a moment years and years ago.
I can't I don't know the exact moment, but the
LPGA was like, we're going to have child's care at
every single tournament. They set that tone. We're just now
(25:22):
seeing that in the NWSL. They are just now allowing,
not allowing, because allowing the wrong word, but you know,
basically saying like, hey, we are going to have these
resources for you. You can be a mother, you can
be a player. You don't have to decide, you don't
have to choose, you don't have to make that decision.
LPGA did that a long time ago. That was a
(25:45):
moment that could have made a really big cultural shift,
and it didn't. No, I think it went under the radar.
I think most people don't even know that that is
a resource for mothers on tour and that's something that
a lot of the leads to implement and are implementing.
I think what we find with LPGA golfers and golfers
(26:06):
in general, and I think it's due to the nature
of the sport. Yes, you are buttoned up traditional traditional.
To have an opinion is to be wrong.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
And that's the hard part, right, because we have to
almost change the culture of the entire game. But we
can try, and I guess influence Let's say the women
in the game now to try and speak. So if
you could give the girls on tour or the girls,
any girls that's really coming into the game, what would
you tell them so that we can have our huge
(26:41):
pivotal moment that we deserve.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
First talk to me, let's talk because share that is
that's a huge roadblock. I do fine with women's golf.
Is this desire to have publicity, right, and then we
go okay, great, let to do it. And then you're
saying no, or you're being skittish or you're keeping it
(27:05):
very surface level and very I like to call it fluff.
I don't write fluff pieces.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Like what's the story?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, I don't write fluff pieces. And so I will
say roseng last year was incredible and she went there
with me. She was vulnerable, she got emotional, and we
had a really really beautiful profile feature on Rose in
the summer on ESPN dot com. As a result, it
also took months and months of me making sure that
(27:31):
Rose felt comfortable with right and trusted me. It shouldn't
have to take months and months and months for every
single player. Rose was a very specific one. We knew
we wanted to do a long form feature. I was
in it for the long haul with her and I
wanted her to go there with me, and she did.
But what I fear is that women on tour are
so afraid to even have any opinion, And to be honest,
(27:54):
the men aren't any better, you know, they just are
kind of living in their live and PGA world, so
they just think that that is having a position on
something for them. But I really would hope that the
women on tour understand that, like, the more we see
who you are, the more people are going to want
to follow you. And it goes back to the slogan
(28:17):
that the LPGA had for a long time. Hugs not handshakes.
Why not a handshake?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yeah, you don't.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Need to hug everyone you need, you know, But I
think that kind of facilitated that, Hey, we have to
be friends. Yeah, let's keep it peaceful, let's keep it PG.
I don't ruffle any feathers. Feathers and some women they
don't want to ruffle feathers. And I'm not saying, you know,
you have to go be a rebel and take a
stance on something. I just would like them to take
(28:46):
a you know, a stance on.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Anything, just like you can general in general.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
And you know, don't also let it fall on the
shoulders of the top ten. Let's make sure sure that
we're fostering a space so that women don't just have
a seat at these tables, but they own the table,
they own the studio, they own wherever they're at, you know,
they own that space. And for women's golf, I just
(29:13):
fear that they're like always nervous that it's going to
be taken away from me.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
And I feel like, you know, I've been able to
interview a few LPGA players now and just have really
close quarter conversations. And I think what's so hard is
that within the LPGA tour, it seems that there is
like a culture there. The LPGA players are given like
these media answers and they're like, okay, we're not making
the tour mad, and the tour is also trying to
help them, but also still trying to keep it very safe.
(29:38):
And I'm like, no, we just need like a do over.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I don't know why that's so.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I think it's hard because there are certain players that
just want to play golf.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Unfortunately, when you are a professional athlete, you can't say
that you want more people to watch. If you are
going to just show up and play golf, you need
to do a little bit more, right. You know, we
look at men and the top athletes. Some of them
are just like I just want to, you know, play basketball,
just to play football. But they still are outspoken on
(30:09):
certain topics. Yeah they you know, they say that, but
they still are talking and you know, giving interviews or
not giving interviews. But it becomes a moment and so
I would love for the women to just find their
voice maybe a little bit more, and I think that
falls on the media. I think it falls on us.
You know, we have to do a better job of
finding those stories, finding those characters. You know, Let's make
(30:33):
sure that we are giving you a voice and it's
not cookie cutter, and let the men do what they're
going to do. Let's stop comparing the two tours because
they're different. Yes, they're so different. And I would love
to see, you know, more group events essentially, you know
what's happening with TGL. Like that would be great.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
If we could have a woman include women.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I think that.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Would be like have meant and women together, So that
would I think that would really really amplify and bring
out the women's personalities without having to feel so like controlled,
you know. And I think that's the goal.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
And you just allow them to be in a space
that they feel safe, right, And that's the biggest thing. Yeah,
and that's why, Like I don't know if some of
them are just not feeling that. I think it's the
travel schedule part of it too. It's a grind, you know,
you all you round sport all year round and if
you don't make the cut, you're not making money. So,
you know, I think a lot of people who maybe
(31:31):
are casual golf fans, they don't understand that, so they
do question. They wonder, you know, it would be great
too to see a professional women's event at Augusta. You know,
let's put these women in places. And that's happening with
the US Women's Open. But let's keep doing it, let's
keep raising the bar.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
No, I agree, So how has it been covering women's
sports in general versus women's golf when you're trying to
do profiles?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
So this is a great question to because I actually
haven't really like sat down and thought about it, you know,
because I'm just in the moment. You know. I'll say
I do a lot of women's basketball stories and women's
soccer stories.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
And I'll assume they're probably more open.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
They are more open, and I think part of it
is the nature of their sport. Yeah, the confidence that
they have to have when they step out on the pitch.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Also, a team sports team, you got your people behind.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
You, You're girls with you, you have and you have
a whole team behind you. Yeah, you know, I think
that makes a difference. I do find that golfers just
need that safe space a little bit more, and and look,
I always say if someone was like, hey, can I
write a profile about your life, I'd be like, no,
thank you, Thanks, I'm good. So, you know, I understand that,
(32:49):
like it's a lot to ask of these athletes. It's
a lot to ask of the athletes, the families, you know,
it's just it's a lot. Yeah, And so I do
think that with there's just that extra layer of like,
let's make sure the time is dedicated to them. That
saves space. But I do that with all of my athletes.
(33:10):
I'm not kind of singling them out, like I'm not like, Okay,
it's a golfer, so I got to do this. Yeah,
I love interviewing, and I love interviewing for the fact
that it's a vulnerable space you have to take the
time and just earning their trust is huge. So the
difference is I think the bravado perhaps, you know, and
in some of them, like especially my girls, who are
(33:30):
number one in their class for basketball. They're number one
for a reason because on the court they're incredible, but
they've got that swagger, they have that whole thing. They
want to be forward facing. Hey, come out to this practice,
come out to this game, come out. Let's do whatever.
I do have athletes where it's a little bit more
of like, Okay, maybe you can come out. Okay, you
(33:52):
came out to this you know this practice? Yeah yeah, okay,
so yeah, and almost like there's a secret and I'm like,
just trust me, let me go. Yeah. Like I'm like,
I am a safe space for you. And that might
sound really bizarre because a journalist doesn't seem like a
safe space, but I'm doing a profile feature on you,
(34:14):
and I am also on this journey with you. A
lot of my subjects are trying to figure out who
they are, and through the process of these profiles, we
aren't one undred percent identifying who they are, because that's
impossible for anyone at any point in their life to
know what one hundred percent with certainty who they are.
But I find a lot of the times after the fact,
(34:35):
these young women, their families, they go, WHOA, we didn't
even know that that's what I was doing, And you
helped me understand a little bit more about my characteristics,
my habits, and what I want. I'm also not trying
to pull a fast one on anyone. The facts are
going to be right. We can't ignore facts either, But
(34:58):
you know, running through. This is what on the record means,
This is what on background means at the records want
some of these people this is the first time they're
having these big moments, right.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
You know? This is again something that you and I
were just chatting about outside of this pod, that there
are there's so much interest in women's sports right now.
There's so many people that want to invest in golf.
But what's so interesting about it is that the people
who really want the growth of the game to happen
also seemingly are not comfortable with perhaps the newer voices.
(35:28):
And you're someone who's in hard media, and I feel
like you're very accepting of any and all voices. So
I guess, like that being said, like, how do we
change that mindset so that we can only just grow
for the greater goods?
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah? I just feel like for me, I want us
all to kumbay off, yes, and to understand that, like,
my work will just be elevated by your work. Yeah,
your work will be elevated by my work. You are
not claiming to be a features writer, right, I'm not
claiming to be a influencer podcast host. I think identifying
(36:05):
our roles and all of This is very important and
understanding that your roles can change, you know, and I
think I want, especially the women in sports media, women
in golf media, we can all be in this together
and we don't have to be competitive with each other
and fight over it. You know, this is not high school.
(36:26):
I already went to high school. I'm good. You know,
I'm done. I went to high school. I'm a grown
adult now. I understand that. You know, I'm secure in
my career. And I think that's what it comes down to,
right people who are going to maybe criticize, talk poorly,
talk behind our backs. They're not in a secure place.
(36:47):
And that's when I just say, I will pray for you,
and you know, I hope you find your community. I
have found my community. Yeah, absolutely, I find your community
that lifts you up so that you don't have to
take people down.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I love that answer.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
And I think acknowledging too, like, if you are in
this space for the male gaze, that's fine. Don't pretend
you are in this space to elevate aolutely women. Let's
not flip flop on that, because those are the narratives
that then become confusing to the outside world, and then
they look at women like us, and they're like, are
(37:23):
you just here for the male gaze? You just here?
That is a big issue. I think that we are
facing kind of in women's golf right now. Yeah, in
non professional women's golf, you know. And I think that's okay.
If you just want to post certain photos for the
male gaze, more power to you. I love that for
you own that narrative for sure. Don't knock me down though.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Because I'm doing something.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
I'm doing something different, very different my followers. I always
say my followers are mostly women, and that just is
what it is, you know, and could be shocking to some,
could not get others, But most of my followers are women,
and so for me, I'm you know, and I'm always
for the girls, like I dress for the girls.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
I do.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Like that's just who I am. If that's not who
you are, that's okay, right, We accept you for that. Yeah,
we love you for that. But let's just all understand
that all of our rules play a part in how
outside perception.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yes, and the grand scheme of things.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yes, the grand scheme of things. So, like, let's just understand,
I want to elevate the sport. You want to elevate
the sport. I want more young and girls and boys
to play the sport. Yeah that's my mission right.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Well, end the hard interview at that we do have
a fun game as we only have a couple minutes.
So the game is real or fake headline, This game
was customized.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Just for you. Oh my gosh, this is gonna be hard.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Are you ready this?
Speaker 1 (38:48):
We are in a world of headlines that seems so fake.
I is going to be very difficult, but I am ready.
Now I'm sweating. But it's all fun. Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
First, one reel or fake LPGA player miked up during
round drops f bomb on live TV.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Real.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Absolutely, Charlie Hull, twenty twenty three. That's great and that's great.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Love it.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Okay. Next, NCAA women's golf team forced to withdraw a
mid tournament due to a single lost golf bag.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
A single lolf that seems fake. You could still keep playing.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
You would think, But because of that lost golf bag,
they had to reel headline and they had to withdraw.
It happened to Oregon State in twenty three. I know,
I know how what I know?
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I mean, I showed up, But golf tournaments my driver was,
you know, got broke and like the travel and everything,
and he's still playing I.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Think a whole lost golf. Who's you got to fun?
Go find a set, I guess, yeah, go find a set. Okay,
all right. W NBA stars signs endorsement deal with Taco
Bell demands free crunch Raps for life.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
No, that is fake. Good job. That sounds amazing, but I.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Would I could see it happening.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
But that is I really hope that someone after that
you write that head like, let's make it a real head. Yeah, yeah,
buddy's a man. Crunch Traps for life.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Okay, LPGA pro wins a car with a whole one
immediately gives it to her caddie.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
That's real.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Good job, Amy Olsen in twenty twenty. Yeah that was
a very bad Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Last one, Tisha
Allen puts an ento rumors about dating Tiger Woods.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
You guys, that's real.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Now you had to while, yeah, you had to like and.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
That's but that's the thing that's crazy. That's a real headline.
Because you're a woman in sports, it's automatic that you
want to date an athlete. It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
And it's like one picture beside me and Tiger, and
I'm like, you, guys.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
I see that. I can see it in my mind.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
It was just one photo. Yes, I think you know
which one. And then I'm like, I'm so gay, guys.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
But wow, that's but that's hard and yeah, it's hard
for young women, yeah, to see because they don't want
to come into this space and just be told you're
in this space because you want to date an athlete
or you're dating an athlete or whatever. That is very
real and you had to live that.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
I know, and you know what though, like okay, but
also no, very not but also know.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
And like you are happily engaged and so yes, anyway,
exactly that is the game.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
And that wraps it up. Charlotte, thank you so much
for joining the party. I really enjoyed our chat. Where
can everyone find you before we let you go?
Speaker 1 (41:29):
I mean, you can find me on Instagram and Charlotte
Sue okay, Sue, I post a lot of my stories
on there, and I have a couple of TV features
coming out spring summer, so you can stay tuned for that.
Just google me. Yeah, if you really want to read
my such to google.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Google Google find it or look at the very end
of any ESPN or espn W article and you made it.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
See yeah. And then also you can subscribe to the
espnW newsletter and I write it every month, so amazing.
You get a little taste of my voice and what
I find to be the most interesting and compelling stories
of the month. Love that. Thank you, Thank you. Thanks.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Welcome to the Party with Tasha Allen is an Iheartwoman's
sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports Entertainment. I'm
your host, Tisha Allen. Julia Weaver is our lead producer
and showrunner. Our executive producers are Christina Everett and Jesse Katz.
Special thanks to Jess McCallister and the teams at GERSH
and Catalyst nine. Listen to Welcome to the Party with
Tasha Allen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
(42:40):
you get your podcasts.
Host
Tisha Alyn
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