Inside the Trillionaire Mindset, with Ben Cahn & Emil DeRosa

What is the Trillionaire Mindset? How do you enter the Trillionaire Mindset? Are you born with the Trillionaire Mindset, or can it be taught? All these questions and more will be answered by Ben Cahn and Emil DeRosa — hosts of a podcast called... Trillionaire Mindset. Josh and the boys go on a wild ride through the world of money, the entertainment industry, politics, and the modern thrill of being in front of a live audience. Discussed: the Coronation, desks, cartoons, gambling.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hey, and welcome to What Future. I'm your host, josh
Wa Topolski, and we have got a barnstormer of an
episode today, which I'm excited about.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Now.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
You may or may not know this, but my day
job is the operation of a media brand called Sherwood Media,
which is interested in and thinking about how money moves,
how the markets function, what's going on in business and
technology and the worlds of finance and geopolitics and all
those fun things. And so I'm thinking all the time

(00:49):
about money and about you know, where the markets are
shifting and what it means culturally. And there's a great
podcast that I've been listening to, and there are these
two guys that do the podcast. It's called Trillionaire Mindset,
and I think they're just fantastic and we want to
have them on here to talk about business both large

(01:09):
and small. And I should say this is the first
time ever that What Future is having two guests at once,
so it's going to be quite a handful. I don't
want to waste any more time. Let's just get right
into this conversation. I'm just gonna say it right now.

(01:38):
This is not a financial advice. I don't know if
you guys consider what you're doing financial advice. But I'm
gonna say.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
I was going to say, actually it is so everybody
can take it to the bank and if they want
to act you luck.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
So what Ben says is financial advice? Emil, what do
you are you?

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Also?

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, doing financial advice?

Speaker 3 (01:56):
Uh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Unfortunately, for the record, we are joking. We absolutely really
you don't want to get a fine? Yeah, I don't
want be fined. We can't do that.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
You guys have a podcast called Trillionaire Mindset true or false?

Speaker 2 (02:09):
True?

Speaker 3 (02:09):
True?

Speaker 1 (02:10):
We needed a party. I don't know anything about Trillionaire Mindset.
What would you tell me? How would you describe the
podcast to me?

Speaker 2 (02:17):
I would say, I got to go to the bathroom here,
let him answer it for you, and then defer to
a meal.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
I'd say, you seem like a lonely guy who's uh,
could maybe use friends, and.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
So you can't explain it. I got no, we can
explain it.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
It's it's we're taking the piss out of all out
of you know, the entire financial and economic system. So
we're breaking down kind of any story surrounding that, and
it includes like all kinds of financial, economic political stories,
tons of current events, but we're joking about them and

(02:50):
explaining them and making them fun.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, you're turning heavy stuff into lighthearted topics.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah, we want to make what otherwise is boring to
younger people, well an audience of all. We want to
make what's otherwise boring and uninteresting interesting and not boring.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Right Emil, are you British?

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Out of curiosity?

Speaker 1 (03:08):
You froming anybody in your family from England? Now what
you said take the piss which is an expression that
I really only hear British people say, and I always
it's a big red flag for me if there's any
British people involved.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Mindset is actually staunchly anti British. Yes, yeah, we are
on record, so as it should be. I retracted my
taking the piss out, and I would like to say
we're making fun of them.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, it's more like it. That's an America, that's the
American way to say it. That's good. I like it
anti British stance. I don't have any personal grievance against
the British. In fact, they've been very good to me historically.
But I don't know, it just feels like I need
to have a couple of like grudges to hold, and
I think the British seemed like an easy target.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Perhaps they're so easy to make fun of, right in
the most loving way.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
Nothing against British people individually.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, no, well, I mean, I don't know, maybe something
against them. Yeah, did you guys watch the coronation? That's
a big that's a big news event.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
That's a huge We tried to get in and they
denied our visas.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
You need a visa to go to the coronator.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
I guess so I think they might have I think
they might watch our show.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Wait a second, did you actually try to go to
England for the for no King Charles's coronation?

Speaker 3 (04:15):
We have a running joke that we're always at important
events that we're actually not at.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, I say, I say, I actually watched the I
watch you guys on YouTube. You have a great desk.
Where do you get a desk like that? So he
make it for you? Did you purchase it? Is that
something that like I want to know about the How
did you get the desk?

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah? This guy, I don't know if we've been told
all sorts of stuff about what not to talk. It's fine.
Some guy builds those sets. That's it, he's I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Well you told you're not supposed to talk about that.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
They like to keep the guy because he's built a
few sets for the network, and they kind of like
to keep him their own little secret, which is kind
of fun.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
When you say the network, what do you mean are
our network that we're under? You're okay, yeah, no, right, okay,
because it does remind me of a kind of like
late night kind of desk. It's but it's for.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Two yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that is the vibe we
were going for.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Have you ever had a third person at the desk?

Speaker 2 (05:08):
You've had two other people at the desk? Oh? Really?

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah, but that makes sense because you've got quadrants. But
if you've got a third, I guess you. Guys said
on one side, is that how you arrangement?

Speaker 3 (05:16):
We stick them right in the middle, Right in the middle,
we say, head on, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
No, for really, you put the person in the middle.
That's crazy. That's a crazy arrangement. So you make that
person have to look back and forth between the two
of you, and that's very strange.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
No free rides at trillion our mindset.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
So so trillionaire mindset is, but there's obviously a through line.
You talk about all sorts of stuff like you talk
about current events and politics. In fact, I was just
listening to you guys. We're talking about Biden and his
re election campaign, and I think this is your most
recent episodes from a few days ago. You were talking
about the Republicans using AI to make an ad, so
very political. Yeah, and you guys are both hardcore right wingers.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
Would you say, yeah, what's the word crypto fascist?

Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (06:00):
We described oah yeah, right, okay, good neo conservatives.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
But there's a through line, Like there's a money through line, right,
Like I mean you guys are like interested in money
and in the markets, and I mean there's some investing
stuff'll y'all talk about. It's like you talk about hedge
fund guys like they're you know, household names. So yeah,
how do you end up doing a podcast which is
very funny and obviously for entertainment purposes, but it's also

(06:25):
like quite seriously about like stuff that is very nerdy,
like market stuff.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Right, this has been speaking Hello. I I am a
trader and I've been a trader for I don't know
fifteen years in a professional trader only professional for the
last few I got licensed a year ago, but before that,
I was trading for myself for since like twenty eighteen.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
So you have a job at a brokerage. Is that
at a trading firm?

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, at a proper okay, And yeah, I'd always been
interested in it since I was a kid, and I
made a lot of money doing it in my late
twenties and then I no need to brag, but then
I lost a lot of money too, oh okay to
taxes into a couple bad investments. But I've always like it. Yeah,
I've always I've always had an interest in the stuff.

(07:14):
And then when the game stop debacle happened. Noel Miller,
who's one of the two guys who runs TMG Studios,
we were talking about it and he was asking me
to parse all of the information that was coming out
daily about the GameStop thing, and I was breaking it
down for him and making him laugh, and at one
point he said, you know, you should do a finance podcast,

(07:37):
and I said, yeah, I'd love to. I've always wanted
to get into radio, but that's kind of a dead
dream at this point. And he said, well, let me
talk to Cody the other guy who runs TMG, because
we're thinking about expanding and turning our flagship podcast into
a network, which is what they did with us being
the first foray into that. And he said, you know,

(07:57):
who would you want to be your partner? And I
thought of this young man right here, because we'd we're friends,
and we'd he's a he's a comedian and he's very funny.
And we were working on this other thing at the time,
doing these voiceovers for this fledgling, small little Instagram cartoon
that never went anywhere, but it was really fun.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Find that on Instagram.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, it was called Office Fire. I think it's under
Office Fire show. And we both it was like a
Beavis you're doing voices, yeah, voice We were writing it hand,
doing voices.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
It was one of the strangest times because it was
peak pandemic, peak lockdown, and they said you can't, you
can't come into the studio. We don't have a studio.
We're allowed to have you in. So they sent us
mikes and we and it was so hot it was
that summer, that first summer, and so we had to
turn off the AC because of the sound, and we

(08:49):
had to put blankets over ourselves. So the sound would
sound and it was just we were just sweating and
Ben department recording this animated show.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
I know I got you off track from the background here,
But but was that fun or was that like a nightmare?

Speaker 2 (09:01):
Because I think it could go either way. It was.
It was a good time.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
It was incredibly fun. I wasn't leaving the house at
that point.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
You know.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
We would record, and then we would also just have
these long conversations because I hadn't talked to anyone in weeks.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, and I would be telling him about certain trades
that I had made that day or things that had
happened in the news that like, hey, here's someone to
talk to about it. And he'd ask me questions because
he didn't fully understand. He'd at this point had known
very little about the markets and stuff.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
And you weren't you weren't playing the market, you were.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Not in the game.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
I'm not a market playboy.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Interesting, And I'd kind of break it down from him,
and he found it entertaining, but would also make little
jokes and make me crack up. So when Noel asked
me who I would want to do it with, I
knew exactly who the right person would be. And then
we months later recorded a pilot episode and it went
really well, and then we were off to the races.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, so that was mit you said, like peak pandemic.
You said twenty twenty or later.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Well, we ended up launching the first episode in October
twenty twenty one, I think over twenty twenty one, just
right around my birthday. It's a very special time.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
That was your birthday present from us.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
I appreciate that. That really hit the spot. So then
you're doing this stuff all day. They're like actually engaged
in the art and the craft of tradeing. You were
playing the market very poorly. Yes, okay, okay, that's I'm
sure your employer loves to hear that. I'm sure they're like,
we love what our guys are, Like, I suck at this.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
They do not give a rats ask because they're collect
in their desk fees and whatnot, and they take ten
percent of my profits. So even if I'm unprofitable, they're
still making money off of like commissions and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Oh okay, So it's a it's like a boiler room
kind of set up there, right, Is that in my mind?

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Not quite? But the way that it works is you
give them a little bit of money as a deposit,
as a security deposit, and then they give you like
twenty x leverage, oh to trade with.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
This sounds a little bit like MLM. It's not no
right at all? No, Okay, are you sure? Positives you
might be you might be involved in an extremely complex scam.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Well here's a possible. You've got fifteen minutes. I promise
you I can change your life. Okay, so you can
decide for yourself it's an MLM or not. But I
guarantee you it's not. You're not gonna be.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Thinking that I'm interested in getting in on the ground
floor on something.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, the thing is if you can then get three
people under you to sign up for this program, yeah,
then the money that they make. Okay, this bit has
gone on for two now.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
This is great.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
I love this.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
I noticed you do a thing on the podcast. Actually,
speaking of your bits, you're very like, uh, maybe this
is because I guess your background is not and you're
not a professional comedian like Emiala. Is right, you're a
you're a professional pro comedian. Is that what I'm meant
to understand?

Speaker 3 (11:44):
I mean, that's a loose sure, I make money off comedy.
But uh yeah, I mean we're both we both met
in the comedy world, that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Okay, So wait, so then you are a comedian that
I don't know when.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
I think we both have similar weird backgrounds where we
have like professional backgrounds, but we're in comedy. So I
am like, weirdly a non practicing lawyer.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
So oh wow, you just really that's interesting, A non
practicing lawyer. But you're you could be a lawyer if
you wanted to be.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
I'm like licensed, passed the bar, all that kind of stuff.
But right, what kind of law I just don't. I mean,
the only thing I do you don't want to say.
I mean, the stuff I work for is is pro
bonus stuff. I'll do legal aid stuff, okay, but I
don't work in any real capacity.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
You know.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
My focus is all on comedy and our show. And
it wouldn't it wouldn't be right to right be fully
representing people as I'm he.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
Doesn't want to spread himself too thing, right, I get it.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
You can always fall back on being a lawyer if
you need to, but you don't do that right now.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
But so you know, But yeah, so we were introduced
to each other through comedy, friends and stuff, and we
both kind of had these weird other things outside of
comedy that.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Like normal, normal lives.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
Yeah, sure, that made it fun, and I think we
each had an interesting perspective rather than just two guys
who were like, let's start a pod and just start chatting.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, you want to distance yourself from other men who
started a podcast, is what I'm hearing.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
We are standing on the shoulders of two guys with
a microphone everywhere.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Right, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. But how long have you know?
Did you know each other before you started doing the podcast?

Speaker 3 (13:28):
We probably knew each other, Yeah, maybe foursh five years maybe.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Were you like casual buddies or like you were hanging
out all the time.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
No, so my very good friend, my best friend in
the world, actually was he met Ben online when Ben
was moving back to LA and what you guys got lunch?
Got lunch and he talked to me after and was like,
I met this guy. You guys would love each other
and then.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
He both freaks.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
He said, yeah, he said, you guys both absolute freaking interesting,
and he was right, Yeah, we hit it off. If
we started hanging out all the time, climbing, going to
the beach.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, oh, you guys climb, you're like sporty types and.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Not anymore though he doesn't climb anymore. I don't climb anymore.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
But we both go to the same gym. Still, well,
you can't risk your body now that you're worth so much.
It's truly on our mindset taking off. You can't risk it.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
I stay climb a little bit. I'll go outside and stuff.
But yeah, it is, it is a bit.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Going outside is just that's not climbing.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
Though, climbing outside rather than the gym.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Oh I see, I see. So I don't do any
sports at all, so this is all news to me,
like that there's could be an indoor outdoor consideration.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
But I was hurting my back a lot, so I
switched over to you, you know, started playing more tennis,
and then he hurt his knee and his elbow instead.
We're working it out.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Should you maybe not just don't do any sports at all?

Speaker 3 (14:41):
Hey, that's the whole question. In your thirties, should you
just give it up?

Speaker 1 (14:46):
I guess so? Are you in your thirties? I don't
know your ages. I don't want to be presumptuous.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
I'm in my thirties.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, I'm middle thirty. It's a great time. Have you
met a trillionaire? Have either of you met a trillionaire?
Do you feel like you have ever encountered one in
real life?

Speaker 3 (15:08):
No, but we have met billionaires.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Oh yeah, Okay, who's the richest person you've ever met?

Speaker 2 (15:13):
I guess it would have to be the CEO of
Robin Hood led Tenant when he came on her show
the time, worth like a little over a billion dollars.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
I know Vlad his body of mine. Yeah, but he's
done a body. But I got to work for him
technically speaking.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
I encouraged him to quit.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Encourage him to quit Robin Hood.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
I said, why don't you quit? Man? I still stand
by it.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
I can't believe I have not watched this episode. I
should have really bound up on it before I had.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
You guys know, it's an okay one. But I my
logic that it's a pretty good sport. From what I
could tell, he was a great sport.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
It was a very strange thing because they asked to
come on, and we said at first, why, because you know,
our whole thing is like making fun of this, like.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
The PR team was like, hey, or have you ever
thought about having laid on the show?

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (15:55):
Yeah, and we were obviously like we're down, but just
we just want you to know what the show is
show and they were like, no, no, we get it.
We think we should still do it. So we did
like a pre production meeting with them, and we were
very upfront, like we're gonna make fun of him and
we're gonna ask, you know, a question, tough questions, and

(16:16):
then they were like, what if instead we did you know,
you guys talked about how Robin Hood is now offering
crypto and we were like.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
That's not you know, you can't blame them. I mean
that's their job. They got to like do the promo stuff.
You know, it's good.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
So we were very much like if you don't want
to do it, don't do it, and uh they were
like no, let's do it, and they he was against bored.
They let us do. They let us do our thing
and it was it was very fun.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah. I got him a custom hat that he put
on it said oops, sorry about that because he was
kind of in the middle of his unofficial apology tour
for right.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
But I think he's kind of a podcast fan. It's
possible he listens it's your podcast, because we've we've talked
about it a few times that I think he's, uh,
he's sort of into the art.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Wait.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
But so when you said he's your boss.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
What does that he is my Well, technically how does that? Well,
I'm the I'm the president editor in chiefs was something
called Sherwood Media, which is a subsidiary brand of robin Hood,
which is a new media company. And you guys didn't
even google me. Didn't fucking if.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
I knew about that. I'm building along.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
You didn't even go check out. There's a great Axios
article about it. You can read, Yeah, I'm building this
new media thing that is adjacent to but no longer
actually like a direct part of robin Hood. So so,
you know, a couple levels up there's Vlad.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
I still stand by the suggestion that he quit. And
part of it was so let me, let me explain.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
What was the motive? What what were you're thinking?

Speaker 2 (17:45):
I said, look, you you've gotten a lot of bad
pr a lot of the monkeys what are they called
the apes out there? Yeah, I hate your guts and
the market the stock was at fifty two weeks all
time lows. I said, if you were to step out
of the out of the spotlight, out of the limelight,
and just announce that you're stepping down, you would no

(18:05):
longer have to deal with all this shit. Plus the
market would probably like it, and I'm sure that the
stock might rally tend to twenty percent, thus making you
a little bit richer. So you right, you don't have to.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Deal like you're doing a like a self blood sacrifice
that also drives the price.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
Nobody's going to care about what you do.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
It's interesting, hardly a sacrifice. I mean, the guy is
a billionaire. It's like that's yes.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
That is true, that is true. I think he legitimately
likes the product a lot. Like my impression of interacting
with him and seeing him interact with other people is
like he's legitimately excited about like the concept of Robin.
I think it's like, I don't know. I mean, I
think about this all the time. Like, if you're very rich,
let me get you this way. If you were a billionaire,
would you, guys, as far as I know, are not right,

(18:50):
fortunately ye would you engage in any part of society
that you didn't absolutely can we.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
Talk about this all the time on shore. Oh really,
because you know so many of these guys are getting
into trouble, right, you have these guys. It's like, we're
just talking about Carl Icon, who's what eighty six?

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Oh no, what did he do? Did I missed some news?

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Who is it?

Speaker 3 (19:09):
Henny Hindenburgh, the short sellar basically released a lot of
information about Icon enterprises, and so they're trying to weather
that storm. And we're just talking about Carl Icon, who's
a billionaire and he's probably eighty two, and yeah, yeah,
our minds were like, how do you not just go away?
How do you not just quit? I'm done, I'm not
gonna again.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
I don't have I'm not in the trillionaire mindset or
even the billionaire mindset for that matter. But I can
imagine a future state where I am in that mindset.
And my feeling is I have like a lot of
creative pursuits and things I'd like to do that have
nothing to do with like working or generating more income.
And if I knew, if I knew that, like, I
can live off dividends and then some right, like, and

(19:52):
so can my family for the rest of eternity essentially,
you know, would I continue to go into an office,
you know, on a zoom. In Vlave's defense, he runs
the company and I think he really enjoys it and
that's like his pursuit, and I think it's wonderful. But
I'm saying, imagine you're a billionaire, You're an eighty two
year old billionaire, and they're like, hey, there's a Zoom
call today to talk about that thing. Like can you

(20:13):
just imagine you have to open up your laptop or
whatever your your I want to say, it's a think
pad or something, and you got to you gotta get
on to it. You gotta log into the zoom for
a conference call about something. It's like real, you know,
it's crazy, I mean very least delegate that all away
from you, like delegate everything away. I think that's a perplexing.
It's interesting that you guys talk about it, because I mean,

(20:36):
in particular, I think about it with like Elon is
a perfect avatar for this. It's like there was a
lot of stuff going really well in his his like career,
in his life and.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
Oh, I mean he completely torched his own reputation for.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
I was just talking about somebody spit on my tesla
the other day?

Speaker 3 (20:52):
Is that real?

Speaker 1 (20:53):
And uh, well, okay, now, in fairness, the guy was
wearing a full Jack Sparrow outfit, riding a bike in
the opposite direction alongside my car, and as he drove by,
he spit on it.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
Come on my model?

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Why? And I was like, that's definitely because it's a tesla,
although maybe it's because he like, I know, there's like
a Tortuga situation going on or whatever the island is called.
I don't know. I mean, he could have been something else,
but no. A friend of mine was just telling me
that in Brooklyn people are taking their tesla that goes
off the car because people like fuck with yeah if

(21:27):
they're you know, and it's like that didn't have to happen.
There's no reason for that to have happened.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
It's funny because you know, there was a ton of
valid criticisms of Elon way before he kind of took
this hard turn, and we talked about a lot of those,
but those were pretty i don't want to say fringe,
but like specific and unless you were really digging into
Elon's whole you know, business practices and views and all

(21:52):
history yeah, history then you weren't really privy to it,
and he was just kind of the guy who might
save humanity or no.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Right, he was like a weird avatar. You're like, oh wow,
there's this like crazy genius doing all these things.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Right.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
No, the Tony Stark era was very good for him, like,
and you didn't hear a lot from him. He wasn't
really talking.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
Now it's strange because like normis are just they hate him.
I mean I was at a yeah, I was at
a super Bowl party and when he came on screen,
they flashed him on screen and everyone booed. I was like,
oh my god, yeah, okay, It's.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Like it's like when he came out the Chappelle concert.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
Right right, right exactly.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
I forgot about that.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, you forgot about it, you kind of there's so
much it's almost it is Trump like in this just
gonna say that. Yeah, yeah, because like remember you remember
like with Trump, it was like it wasn't like one
thing a day or one thing a week. It would
be like there'd be eight completely insane situations happening every day.
They were new, you know, they were new. They were like,
oh his pants fell off during here and that was

(22:54):
like it at nine am, and then at like at
eleven thirty he said, like the Kukos Klan is cool whatever,
and like that went on for another twelve hours. Elon
is kind of like that now where it's like, also's
so many like the pedo guy thing, you don't even
remember the pedo.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
Guy in a case to really beautiful, right, yeah, which
he won, by.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
The way, he fucking beat He beat the chargers on
the pedo guy case, which is I guess impressive. But yeah,
it's like I just think, like, man, I mean, whether
he's a brilliant person or really stupid or somewhere in between.
I think probably somewhere in between. In between. I just
feel like, don't just why tweet? Yeah, like why get
on there? Like like you could do anything, I mean

(23:33):
literally anything. You could go anywhere, be with anybody you want.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
I think you start to believe the fairy tales about yourself,
especially when you become the richest man in the world.
You then feel like, well, I have an moral obligation
to truly save humanity, and there are many ways in
which I could do that, and starting with free speech,
which is under a tech and I've got to take
over the very platform for free speech, the only one

(23:58):
that there is. And and also just to speak on
him and Carl Icon and all these people, I think
that they just they probably lose touch with whatever it
was that truly made them feel alive and now this
business and rocking. Like Gordon Gecko, whatever his whole thing was,
like greed, greed is good? Was this thing I've suffered

(24:19):
a little bit of that. I'm a creative person myself,
and the whole reason that I got into trading was
to fund my creative ambitions. And I just kind of like.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
It's a classic tale and then you end up a soul,
you end up tainted. Yeah, yeah, doing a podcast, Yeah,
you end up with a podcast about investing, but it rocks.
I do love it right well, I mean it's going
well right like you guys, are you feel like it's
things are growing like this? The podcast world is hard.
I mean I say this as a person who's had
multiple podcasts, and like, you know, here we are on

(24:49):
one right now doing one. Do you feel like it's
moving in the right direction, like people are responding to it.
There's like an audience that you've you've built up.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yes, I would say the most interesting thing. And it's
kind of like what we were expecting to get later
on we got first, which is that we got people
first who aren't interested in this subject matter. Right. The
way it worked was TMG gave us the opportunity to
tap into the audience that they had already built and

(25:17):
cultivated for themselves just as a straight comedy podcast. So
for all intents and purposes, these people should not have
necessarily been interested in what we were selling, but they were.
And the number one thing that people collectively would say is, Wow,
I didn't give a shit about this stuff. You guys
make it entertaining.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, I think that's a magic trick that is really valuable.
Like I think if you can make stuff that's really
complex and seems impenetrable, like understandable, but also if you
can make it funny or fun like, that's a huge
that's a huge deal. And not that many people can
do it, Like, I think it's a pretty rare talent.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
So, yeah, you're talking about you know, how we feel
and you know the audience and all that stuff. We
just did our first live show in New York and
it was that was just huge. I mean, because we've
been doing this thing. It's basically it's just like this,
except you know, we're on our set and we're doing
it to we're doing it to nobody basically, and right like.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Well there's somebody there, right, there's somebody behind it.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
But you know, we're going, is this even funny? Are we?
And then to do it in front of a crowd
and then you know, they all hung out after and
wanted to talk to us, and it was like, oh
my god, this is so great. It's not just some
guy behind a screen going like ha haha, or sometimes
like heat you, I can't believe you said that or whatever.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
No, live sh it's the best. I mean, that's amazing,
absolute best. Where did you guys do it? Bellhouse?

Speaker 3 (26:40):
We're actually going to the Bellhouse soon because.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
There's a lot of a lot of live shit.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
We did a caveat because we we we had no
idea if we could even sell tickets or not.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
We just how big? How big is?

Speaker 3 (26:52):
It was a one hundred and fifty people that one.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
Oh okay, ok, it's pretty it was uh.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
We we put the link up and I remember I
was about to get in the show, and so we
threw the link up and then when I got out
of the shower, Benet texted me and said they were
all gone.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
So oh yeah, no doubt. I mean I would have.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
I would have definitely. I mean, if not that you
would need to come and ask me for advice. But
if you'd be like, hey, it's one hundred and fifty
percent venue, I'd be like, you definitely can get more
people than that.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, I mean we just had. Yeah, so we're going
to do the Bellhouse this summer, and.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Uh, that's exciting. I got to come. I gotta come
and check it out.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
We love that.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
Oh yeah, I love live. I think live is great actually,
I mean one of the things. I mean, at some
point we'll probably do hopefully do some some roadshow with this.
But like, because I used to DJ and playing bands
and and there's it's pretty magical when you get like
a room full of people just vibing, like no matter
no matter what's going on, like if it's if it's
a comedy thing or if it's music or whatever, it's

(27:43):
like it's pretty magical. Like, and I think I love
the fact that podcasts have kind of leapt in out
of like you know this, yeah, into something that is
really visceral. I feel like in some way, especially lately
it's been it is a bit of a reaction to
the pandemic, right, Like everybody wants to be in physical
spaces with people now, right. I feel like not to

(28:06):
say that's why people come out to see you, guys,
they come out to see you because you're great. But
I do think there's a there's an excitement around the
live thing with podcasts. A new feels new to me.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yeah, I want to do it as much as possible.
It's like, it's so fun and it just feels so
nice to be in the room with the people who
like just enjoy it so much. They seem to be
just so excited to like be hanging out with us
and watching us do it.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, did you record it and then you put it in?

Speaker 2 (28:30):
I ordered it.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
We haven't put it out, Oh okay, probably not gonna Yeah,
we want them to kind of be I don't know.
Sometimes people are like, we're going on tour and you
can listen or watch to watch every single one we do, and.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
Us we say cancelable things, no, no, really do yeah
horrible things really?

Speaker 1 (28:48):
Andrew give me an example, I.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Mean, name a racial slur.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Oh, Wow, Okay, I mean even that is could we cancel?
I mean, do you actually feel like you cross a
boundary and a live No?

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Not at all?

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Really yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
It's very cool.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Definitely not, although we have to go back and listen
to be sure. No, I get it. I've I've been
in conversations with people, I mean, even on this show,
and I'm like, am I saying something right now? That's
going to really sound wrong when I listen back to.
Of course, we have the power of editing. Well.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
I think that's another thing. Even sometimes when you're saying
the most benign things, you kind of find out later
that some commenter is like, I can't believe you would
say that, you're implying blah blah, and you're like, ill, no,
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
That's really Yeah, you've gotten a lot Have you gotten
a lot of any feedback like that? People were like,
you crossed the line? No, not a lot, and it's
happened here and there. Yeah, And I think that's the
weird thing.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
Sometimes we'll respond and we'll go like, oh, we did
not mean that at all, Like I think you're missing
and people like just back, They're like, oh, I don't
you know I'm sorry, Like it's a very weird no.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
No, responding to critics is actually substantially impactful. I've found
I actually many many years ago. Actually, do you guys
know a journalist named Walt Mossberg. He is a technology journalist.
He's been around forever. He's retired now. But I was
like giving him shit on Twitter about something. This is
many years ago, Like this is like a decade or
fifteen years ago or something. And he called me on

(30:15):
the phone. He did not tweet back at me. He
did not email me. He called me, and I was like,
holy shit, this is like an amazing power move. And
I have since done it. I've adopted the practice like
in a sphere where you could get their phone number
and call them. It's an if you ever get an opportunity,
I really recommend it. Where you somebody's like being a
shithead to you or something, don't email them, don't tweet

(30:38):
at them, call them on the phone and be like, hey,
I want to talk to you about the stuff you
were saying. And I've done it a couple of times,
and I gotta tell you, everybody's me. They're like, oh,
I'm so sorry. I didn't mean it. The way it
came out or whatever. It's a kind of a it's
kind of special.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
But yeah, but people will be reasonable if you respond
to him.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
Yeah. But so that's where I think the live element
is much nicer, where I think it feels to people like, oh,
we're all just here experiencing this. At the same time,
it's not, I don't know. There's something about online recorded
things where people watch them and they just kind of
feel like, I don't know, they want to like pick
it apart or interrogate things.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
And right, well, part of it is also context collapse, right,
Like you get people will take us a bit of
something out of context, out of not part of a conversation.
You don't hear the rest of it, and you're like,
there's just that clip that plays or whatever that somebody's sharing,
and it's like, okay, well context matters, right.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
So Yeah, I've had that happen with TikTok, where we've
taken clips from either our show or when we've been
guests on TMG or something like that, where it then
gets picked up on TikTok and someone's ripping me apart
in the comments or ripping someone else and it's just like, God,
you guys just fucking.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
I mean it's good though in a way, like I
think it's a sign that you're doing something right if
you've engendered an emotion as strong as like a hater. Yeah,
if someone is like legitimately like this guy fucking sucks,
I hate his guts, like that, you're doing something right,
You're succeeding. Maybe this is just a gag that you do,

(32:13):
but you analyze a bad joke that you've done, like
a joke you did not execute on the show. Is
this like a recurring thing for you that like you'll
like kind of make a attempt at kind of bad
joke or is that a bit in and of itself.
Is this like a you're legitimately critiquing your own or
trying to reframe your own bad joke or do you
know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, I feel like it's a little bit of both.
I feel like, a, yeah, it becomes a bit and
it also if it if the joke doesn't land, well
I'm just gonna drive it into the ground and agree
with the unspoken word that that was terrible.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, no, you did h on the on the last episode,
the one that I was just watching, uh something about
Jenny Ellen saying that something's gonna come quicker. Oh you
we thought or whatever, and and you're like, that's like
what my wife said. Then you did. Like there was
like a solid like forty five seconds of you going
over that.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
Joe he tries to take it again.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, And I was like.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Trying to figure out if like I'm trying to figure
out if, like you're if that was a legitimate I actually,
I mean this perhaps is your genius again, Emil, I
don't mean to focus on Ben and his great comedy.
Does the same ship? Does he because he's Oh god,
I feel like he's so much more put together on
the show. I feel like he's got a ship so
much more together.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Oh no, we're both maniacs.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
No, there's actually a super cut of me screaming at
the editor cut that, and because they never cut it,
they go.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Like you legitimately upset.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
No, No, it's a like if I up. I'm like,
oh please fucking cut that.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
And they're like, yeah, that's good. People want to see that.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Realize it is the parasocial relationship is the thing? Is
the is the one point one jigawatts of podcast fucking uh.
You get where I'm going with that.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, that's how you're going to travel to the to
the past, the future of this future you have. Yeah,
you have to go backwards to go forward with Yeah,
that's what they say, at least based on the film,
based on the sequence of the film. That's my understanding.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
That is true.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Okay, so let me ask you this. So, so you're
a trader band again, Emil. Sorry, I apologize, but this
guy's so interesting. I find him so fast. I mean, like,
you know what am I going to say? You know,
we're talking about law. We're gonna talk about you doing
like pro bono work for people down in their lockdown.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
Any questions you got for him? Shoot him Adam.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah, well you said you mentioned earlier. I'm just curious.
It was in the back of my mind you were like,
I made a ton of money and then I lost
a ton of money. Yeah, when you say you made
a ton of money, what are we talking about, because
obviously scales are all scales right different, But like, you
give me a range, and then I'd like to know
how you made it and how you lost it?

Speaker 2 (34:41):
Sure, so real fast. I will plug our very first episode,
Episode one, called get rich or die crying. Okay, I
lay it all out as as kind of our primer
primer or whatever for the audience.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
Primers is not so I would like technically speaking, do yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
But anytime someone says that in the future, okay, yeah,
fucking edit that. But we won't. Let's see, I'll just
cut right through it. My dad died when I was
twenty three, and when he died, I got his third
of a you know, substantial inheritance of like two hundred
grand because then my grandmother subsequently passed a few years later.

(35:23):
And yeah, yeah, it's you know.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
The story is not fun so far, just so you know,
it's just kind of a downer. So I'm hoping it
gets it.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Gets it gets uh, it gets better. But up until
that point, I had been trading and working, and funny,
all my money would go into my trading account and
then into the ether because I would lose.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
You were invested in ethereum.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
No I wish. I remember being told about ethereum at
three bucks and I was like, that's oh my god, stupid. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
No.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
The worst is when you've had some bitcoin when it
was worth five cents.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
I remember when it first debuted, and I was like,
this is fucking stupid, and it just this will.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Ever be anything. Now we could have been fucking millk
I know, just by doing nothing.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
It drives me. You're so stupid. But so I had
been trading at that point for close to ten years.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Did you go to school for that or was this
like a self taught thing?

Speaker 2 (36:10):
No, I studied. I studied philosophy in college. Total waste.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
And okay, well that's kind of a way to get
to yeah a little bit, I find critical thing. Yeah,
but you're good at math, I said.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Oh, fucking terrible. I'm so bad.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
Okay, so God kind of a gut thing as well.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Sure, that's how I thought. I'm like, I'm I could
do this. I'm smart enough. God damn it, I can
handle it. And I was I would find myself making trades.
But then because of the small account size that I had,
I couldn't hold on for long enough. I couldn't endure
the losses that you have to endure if you want
to be a trader, because you need Part of it
is losing. In fact, most of it is losing.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
It's just that's I feel like the really successful guys
don't do as much losing as you're described.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
They do, but successful traders lose all the time. It's
about it's about cutting the losses early and about knowing
how to let the winners ride. But so I just
took cut to it.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
This is not financial no, no, just chime in with that.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
I keep going. But I ended up at there was
one year where I made like one hundred grand or something,
and then the very next year I made a little
over one point two or one point three million dollars.
So that's huge fucking money, which when you're twenty eight
or however, all.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
That was crazy. Any any age that's like over a
million dollars making over a million dollars investing is like
a very good You've done a great job.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
At the peak, my account size had gone from two
hundred k to like two million.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Just out of curiosity, what were your big drivers there?
I just want to know.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
I caught a lot of the marijuana stocks, oh okay,
and when they really really had a big, big rally.
But among that were some options trades that I that
I did okay at. But so when I go on
to say I lost a bunch immediately after making that money,
I learned about how much I would have to pay
in taxes. You hadn't factored that, man, I mean I did,

(38:02):
but I didn't think that it would be almost half
of that money just immediately vanquished. Gone.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yeah, but still, I mean sucks. Have you heard of
decentralized currency, because there's a really you know, you could
just float out.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah, I should have done that.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Cryptocurrency is very hot. Tax corn tax is very easy
to avoid. It made would have been nice. You gotta
stay liquid, you gotta stay right, you got it. You
can't really okay, but anyhow, so you so you find
you get your tax Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
I had it. I had like a panic attack cause
I felt like, Okay, I've made more money in just
a couple of years than my dad made in his
entire life. And in my brain, the next thing, the
next logical step was to die like he did. So
I was like obsessed with death for this couple months,
and I'm smoking weed and getting heart palpitations. And then

(38:53):
uh yeah, I paid my taxes. And then I ended
up overstaying my welcome in an investment that I really
believed in, but mainly believed in because some guy who
I thought was way smarter than me, believed in more.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, and it just I probably lost a guy you
knew or a person you just like looked at or
watched on. The guy I knew, okay, who had tipped
me off to one of the big stocks that was
the bulk of my profits, and he was like, I'm
putting all my profits into this other thing.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
And I was like, well, he can't be fucking wrong.
He's a he's a genius, and he's way smarter than me.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Right, All that's to say, I overstayed my welcome and
I lost like a little over half a million dollars
on that other things. So I was like, oh, that's cool.
I mean I had other things going for me that
that did, okay, that kind of offset that. But so yeah,
I went from my friends. It was very hard because
a lot of my friends were like, what do you
you go to a million dollars? I'm like, no, I

(39:47):
fucking don't anymore?

Speaker 3 (39:48):
Right I did?

Speaker 2 (39:49):
I did?

Speaker 1 (39:50):
Did you show me your tax.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
I would tell him, I'm like, hey, I look at this.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Look what the governments they took all this. Did you
feel like you were becoming radicalized by the way when
you saw the tax bill. Did you still to think
about how you needed to like hide your money from
the government you didn't want to pay taxes?

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yes and no. I definitely was like, this is fucked up.
I just got this money. Do you have to take
it right now? Can I just can I just do
something else with it first? Like really in my accountant.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Like reinvested in a sure thing thing, yeah, double or
nothing on a sure back.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
But put it on roulette like the FedEx guy did.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
So you cashed out of stuff then, I mean you didn't.
You didn't stay in the money like you were. You
took the you took it out. Yeah, well that was
your mistake right there. You gotta stay in the market.
You gotta you gotta migrate that to a nice slow
and steady.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
I should have done that. That that might have been smart.
I should have brought I should have bought Nvidia. I
should have bought Tesla. I should have Ugh.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
I mean, the most dangerous thing is that it's possible
to have success when you don't really fully understand what
you're doing. And then once you're up and you've got options,
that's when like it becomes very complicated, Like you can
make a lot of really like, I actually, I mean
this is in any way comparable. But I had a
couple of a couple couple of things I bought that
just on I actually like the businesses, some solar stuff

(41:07):
that I was like, I like what these guys are doing.
I'm just gonna buy. I'm just gonna buy a little bit.
And it did amazingly well over like during like in
the mid mid pandemic was doing amazingly. I know, everything
was doing amazingly well, but this was like outperforming everything,
and I was like, things are going so well, my
gut is seems so great. I'm just gonna go I'm
gonna bet bet big on this, like actually cannabis related
pharmaceutical business. They're like, we're gonna do We're gonna come

(41:29):
up with like gene just cannabis gene therapy or something.
I'm like, this sounds good.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
I like this.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
I'm liking the feel of that. Just absolute huge waste
of money went to almost to zero at this point,
complete like never coming back, like penny fucking stock and
my probably my largest amount of money I spent on
a single on a single ticker. So you know, you
can't wait them all, you can't win them all. But
I was like, that's like small potatoes because I believe.
I don't believe in my ability to gamble at all,
like you do? You gamble in Vegas?

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Do either of you?

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Are you either of you gamblers?

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Never?

Speaker 1 (41:57):
No, No, you don't go. You don't hit the you
don't hit the blackjack table.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
I've done it before, but it's not like a I'm
never like, oh I want to go gamble.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah, same Emil. Are you investing like now? I mean,
because you're obviously like in this you're in this conversation,
the ongoing TRILLIONAI mindset conversation. Have you become more of
a so Ben?

Speaker 3 (42:17):
What Ben does is trading. I don't trade it all,
but I have I buy like index fund.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
You're like long term like retirement stuff. Yeah, you're like
a normal person.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
The smartest thing.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
There's no like huge return like sudden dip situation.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
Yeah, I know that's so stressful.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
That's not well. This is why you guys balance each
other out so well, because you got this the impulsive
gambler over here, junkie junkie, right, gambler junkie is willing
to risk it all.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
You know, you a gambler me.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, No, I don't. I don't.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
I've never learned to play poker. I'm still not sure
how poker's played at all. Like I couldn't tell you
the first thing about how the game is played. Nobody
really knows, no, but people play it for sure. People
love poker. People are and I'm like, I don't know,
Like whatever this is, it's impenetrable to me. And I
can play, I can do very complex things, like I
can build a computer, but like I couldnt tell you
how to fucking what a poker game does. No, I'm

(43:13):
not I'm not even remotely enticed by gambling. And I
could gamble, like it's not like I don't have some money, right,
Like it would be very easier for me to go
like fuck it, I'm gonna like take like ten grand
and I'm just gonna go fucking hit the table that's blackjack.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
Said, don't know you had it like that? That's sick.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
I know a guy. I know a guy, an old
coworker of mine who could count cards or basically count cards.
He could get close enough that he could go to
a blackjack table and win a lot.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
And I was like, Michael, here's like five hundred dollars
go play this. For me, I was like, I'm not
going to fucking play, but I'll but happily watch you
spend my money. And you know, it's like, I don't know,
we ended up a little bit up, but like that's
that's as far as I'll go, Like, I will delegate
my gambling to a person who knows better than I do, because.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
I have friends who like to gamble, and I think
seeing them, it's so unappealing when you're when you're around
people who really like it, it just feels so gross
and weird.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
I remember we were in Atlantic City. We were there
for the weekend.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
No matter what you're doing there, yeah, already, already it's
a dark it's a dark vibe.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
And I remember, so we had a house that was
it was nice because we were by the beach, but
and we were away from all the kind of heart
of the darkness. And the first day our friend comes
back and he said he was down like eighteen hundred bucks,
and I was like, damn. And then the next night
he comes back and he's like, let's go out. I'm

(44:38):
up nine hundred bucks and I said, holy shit, you won.
What's eighteen hundred plus nine twenty seven hundred.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
I said, oh, wow, you won twenty seven hundred bucks
and he was like, no, I won nine hundred. I
was like, wait, but you're still down, Like, dude, don't
be such a like oh, don't be such a spoil
And I was like, oh, all right, I didn't.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Well, that's the that's the that is the that is
not the trillion there mine mind set.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
That is resets every every day.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Does That's the thing. But that's isn't that the trick
of it?

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Right?

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Like you go, well, sure I lost some money, but
you know, out of sight, out of mind, right, let
me go hit the get some more of the chips
or whatever they give you. It's chips, right, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
So watching people actually do it, I was like, I'm
not built for this.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
Let's do predictions real quick, and then at a later
date we can come back and check your predictions. All right,
let's let's see. Okay, you give me some predictions on
what is going to be the most overhyped topic of
the year in the world of business, the most overhyped,
most overhyped trend.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
I feel like I think a little bit of AIRR
is going to come out of the AI stuff. I mean,
so a lot of people are comparing it to cryptos,
and I think there is a lot of comparisons there. Right,
A lot of the money that's coming out of crypto
is going into like every business being like, oh my god,
we got to find the next big AI scheme whatever.
It's being implemented into all these businesses and everyone's like,

(46:12):
and now we're powered by GPT four.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
And I do think it's different in it's different from
crypto in the sense that like there is a use
case for it. There's you know, there's there's utility in
the way that crypto took you know, ten years to
start and they still don't have one.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
But well, you can generate value if you do it right, right.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
Right, But it was just purely a speculative asset that
there was no real right. But so I don't think
it's going to go away, but I think it might
die down a little bit.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
That's a good call. I agree.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
I think I will jump in and say, like, we'll
come back and revisit this prediction. But I think AI
will prove to be the most overhyped whoa new thing.
I just think it's this year's it is this year's
metaverse or whatever. Like crypto is a good I mean,
but that's like two I feel like two years ago.
I want to say, like mid pandemic was the was
the NFT boom that sort of was like married up

(47:08):
to the crypto sort of the real crypto moment maybe
presaged a bit by the crypto moment, like NFTs were
certainly like occupied an entire year of bullshit, right yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
But the but the real difference feels like there there
are use cases here, right. For example, when Duo Lingo
is talking about implementing their chat butt where you're now
you know, talking to someone where you can.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
I'm just thinking of the thing just making up fake words.
That's the kind of shit that it.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
Does, right, yeah, right, right, that's the problem. But if
it can get to a place where they can actually
do these things and and the if the promise is real,
then you're like, okay, that's kind of you know, there's
a real use there.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
There's a real sure No, I agree, I agree. AI
is definitely a more interesting technology, and I think has
u the prospect of it turning into something real as
much higher. But there's no killer app yet. There's like
cool tricks, right right, like and cool tricks don't make
like don't make a business.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
Yeah, but I mean, I mean, I do think it
is putting some people out of business. For example, I
think art generation is a real oh yeah thorn in
the side of any kind of graphic.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Do oh no, it's fuck eddy images.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Yeah yeah, I actually uh made It's funny because I
was time of making music, but I've been doing it
like as a hobby now and I just I was,
you know, I'm putting out a new song on a
new track, and I was like, I need I need
art for this, like just for fun, and I use
mid Journey and it produced like fucking very cool results
for the thing that I wanted. And it's like, yeah,
I know it definitely one percent. Like that's the place

(48:38):
where there's real I mean, it's an edge thing in
the sense that not everybody's an artist, right, there's not
like the there are a lot of people who work
in that field and design and art that are going
to get screwed by it. But it's not like, wow,
it's replacing you know, the factory workers who build cars.
Like it's not exactly the same, right, I mean, though
it presumably can as well. Once we get into a

(48:58):
terminator body, I assume, right, that's the book. Well, that's
like the guy from Google's like, once they put this
in a in a terminator body, we're all screwed. It's like, no,
don't do that. Then I guess, like, don't put it.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
Kidding, don't put.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
Also, they got to be the first. But also like
you could turn the fucking robot off. People are acting
like I hear people talk about the future of AI
like destroying humanity. It's like, you know, like we don't
have the good robots right, Like they're not really that great.
Like the Boston Dynamics dog can only jump around for
like ten minutes before it needs a fucking charge.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
They're getting pretty good.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
They're getting good. They're getting good, but like they're not
gonna kill you, Like you can like put them in
water and then they stop functioning.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
I welcome it, honestly. Let the Bosting Dynamics dog kill
me already.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Let it fuck my wife.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Dude, Wow, are you even fucking married? No, you made
an ex wife joke and now you're making a wife joke.
But I liked it. That's you're saying.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
That's great. We love to do that. We we both
we we love joking about our non existent wives.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Neither one of you were married. You're both single. Ye single,
you're out there.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
In our minds.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
Were married, but I am single and thirty five.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Wow, you're looking for love?

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Can you describe it?

Speaker 1 (50:06):
Can you describe your perfect partner? Let's hear who you're
looking for, what kind of person you're looking for? Maybe
we can make this happen.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Let's see, she's got four legsic body.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
Made in a facility in Boss.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
I know, I know, just.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Boston Dynamics dog. But with a great rack.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
They can do that. They can do that for sure,
that's one they can do, no problem. Like a Boston
Dynamics dog with great tits is definitely a thing that
can happen.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
So my other prediction, my other prediction is that Ben
will be married to a Boston Dynamics dog.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
But Bus, I feel like you just use it. I
feel like you're just using recent data on that. All right,
we need at least one more good prediction. I'll let
me think of, let me think of. Oh, oh, here's
a good one.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Oh, let's hear it.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Will Elon must be the owner of Twitter and or
will Twitter be in business by the end of twenty
twenty three.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
I think he will still be the owner. I think
that to mask a bad Tesla corder, I predict that
he will probably announce someone is stepping in to take
over as a CEO of Twitter, which will satisfy the
market enough to further booie Tesla's stock price, because I
think Tesla's scene has its best days behind it in

(51:12):
terms of the stock price.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Yet what about the what about the actual product?

Speaker 2 (51:17):
Uh? When I drove a Tesla years ago, I fucking
loved it. I was like, this is how driving is
meant to be. And I'm really pissed off that I
didn't buy the stock back then, even though at the
time it was valued at like eighty billion dollars and
I thought, well, it's it's all priced in at this point.
I missed it. But I think that the competition is

(51:40):
has caught up, and I think the damage that he
has done alone to the to the brand value is irreparable.
I think people who have wanted a Tesla, or thought
about getting a Tesla, or even own a Tesla don't
want to be associated with I don't know how you
feel like I'll tell you what.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
I've least two don't like it because I feel like
I want to upgrade every time every few years. I'm
not going to get another Tesla, like I won't buy
another Tesla or well no, I know, like like there's
a ton of great shit out there. I mean, yeah,
but that's the but it is like I mean, Ben
as you were saying, right, it's the one two punch.
It's like the brand has been kind of tarnished and

(52:18):
there's great competitors in the market now, so it's like
what's the edge.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Right, Yeah, Because he was untouchable for so long, he
could continue to make lofty promises that the market chose
willingly to look past or just blindly believe. And I
think his douchebaggery is starting to really have an impact
on the things and the promises that he makes, and
people are starting to not just blindly swallow the bullshit anymore. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
I gotta say, though, I will say one thing about
about why I don't want another Tesla. I mean, yes,
like his all of his stuff definitely colors it, like,
but they're legitimately some dumb fucking things about the car
that drive me that are so minuscule and yet so preventable,
so avoidable, and drive me insane. Like, for instance, this

(53:11):
is the one that probably bothers me the most. You know,
when you flip down, you know the visor you can
flip down in a car. Yeah, you know how they
attach those little things, You kind of push them up
into they're like a little like half circle and you
to hold them in place. Yeah, on the Tesla there's
no half circle. You don't push them into place there.
It's a magnet that holds them on into place. And

(53:32):
you know what, every fucking time I go to a
just advisor, it detaches from its base and slides forward
and I have to reattach it to the magnet because
it doesn't hold as good as the little fucking piece
of plastic that every other car has. And I'm like,
this was something that you didn't need to touch it
all you need to go here. Everything was fine. This
is not an innovation. Like, why it's fucking annoying.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
My big beef with it is that they put a
lot of things in those cars that then other car
companies started to be like, well, this is what people want.
And one we complain about often is that now every
car thinks that every car company thinks that people what
they want is a huge fucking screen in the middle
of the car that has every you know control. Yeah,
and I just saw an article that I guess companies

(54:17):
are rolling that back. They're like, Oh, people do not
fucking like when you have to swipe through pages to
find the climate set it.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
It's crazy. No, it's great. I have to I have
to go into a menu to open the glove box.
Literally literally, that's all it's not. That's not an exaggeration.
There's literally like a I have to open a menu
and then there's a little symbol and it's like you
hit glove box and you open it. You can also
put a pass code on it, by the way, if
you've got your gun in there or whatever, which I
assume you know most people.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
Josh, you'll like this. That reminds me of when right
before the iPod first came out. I was a big
mini disc guy. I fucking I'm a big I'm a fan.
I get it, and I just I would rave about
it to my friends. But then when they would ask
me how it worked. As it was coming out of
my mouth, I knew that it sounded so impractical. It's like,

(55:04):
oh yeah, no, they're like, can you buy mini discs
with the music on it? I'm like, like some maybe
a dozen artists on it. But here's the cool thing.
You hook it up to your CD player and you
press play on the CD player and record on the
on the mini disc player and it it you know,
it migrates it over now, but it records it in
real time. It doesn't even like upload in a few

(55:25):
minutes now.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
I mean, you're listen, you're you are right, And yet
there is something just innately cool about the mini discs,
Like it's like the one of the most cyber of
all products ever made.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
It was fucking awesome.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
It's like the matrix. It's like a matrix object and
it actually there are many discs in the matrix. In fact,
I think the software that Neo is given is on
mini discs. Yeah, which because because the Waikowski is new.
That's fucking cyberpunk and that's how you do it. Okay,
one more quick thing and then we got we gotta
wrap up because we now it's like fucking two hours
of this nonsense. Apple VR heads, have you heard this rumor? Yes,

(55:57):
here's my take on this. This is never going to happen. Like,
it's not They're not going to release this product. Give
me your take. That's my my prediction for this year
is this will be an infinitely delayed product that never
sees the light of day.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
I mean, isn't it already? Hasn't it been? Like it's
like every year they're like, oh, we're doing.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
It well, and yeah, it's like the car. Remember when
every talking about the car was going to happen, or
the TV. There was a it was talking about they're
going to make a TV. Yeah, there's just products. I
think they're real inside of Apple. But then somebody goes like,
that's not it.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
This isn't gonna work.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Yeah, we're not gonna go to sell a bunch of this.
I just think anything you gotta put on your face
is fucking da Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
I think that the only way that it could work
is if there were no there was nothing covering your
eyes and it was more of an ar experience.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
Yeah, but like you used to have to wear something
on your head, you just think about it.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Do you wear glasses? I used to up until December
and I got LACEI.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Why'd you oh, because why'd you stop wearing glasses? Glasses
are cool because I just I want I didn't want
to wear glasses.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
It was impulsive. I'd been wearing him for like a decade.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
Is there some reason you didn't want to have them
on your face? Is that what I'm UNDERSTANDE. I just
was like, yeah, I mean I gotta change it. You
think you'll wear the Apple a R Thing?

Speaker 2 (57:08):
Nah? No, it probably wouldn't be me.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
What do you think would you wear the Apple a
R Thing?

Speaker 2 (57:12):
No?

Speaker 3 (57:12):
I mean I've tried. I've tried uh VR stuff. I
don't want anything on my head.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
You doesn't want to get bullied by high school Nobody
wants That's right.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Nobody wants anything on their heads. So unless it's fucking invisible, Yeah,
Like I would do an eye like a contact that
is like AR that might be cool. I go for that.
They're not releasing that they don't have that they have
they have like a visor like Jordie LaForge and fucking
Star Trek the next Generation something like that. All right, great,
that's not really nothings been a real prediction about that.
I guess I'm making a prediction that it'll be infinitely

(57:42):
delayed and never release. But uh, anything you want to
tell the audience about trillionaire mindset, oh ship, or anything
else for that matter.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
We didn't prepare for this.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Oh really a lot of second Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
I'm been fuck they already know.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Uh you you should go subscribe to our show on
you too. You should also go find it on whatever
audio thing you listen to podcasts on rate us and
listen to us.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Truly, if you just google trillion in our mindset or
put punch it into Apple Music or Spotify or whatever,
you'll find it and you'll listen to it, and we
think you'll really really enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
You're the only trillion in our mindset, right, There's not
another one.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
Yeah. We get a lot of like, oh, I'm not
really interested in that kind of thing. But you guys
seem fun. I swear the show is still fun, and
you might you know, are you.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Telling yourself out of the audience. I feel like the
show is fun. I've just seen it and it's enjoyable. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
Yeah, but we get we get people who are are
maybe afraid of the subject matter sometimes, but we often
say give us a chance, and when people do, they go, wow,
this is very fun.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
No, I think it's good. I think it is a
lot of fun. And I think you guys are like,
you know enough to be dangerous, but you don't know
so much that you're so sure of yourself that it's
like a Joe Rogan experience or whatever.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Like that's exactly know what we want. I think.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
No, I mean, I think you could get to a
Joe Rogan experience level in terms of your power. But
I think what's what's interesting about listening to what I
what I have enjoyed from what I have heard and seen, Well,
one is the desk is great. That's number one. If
you're gonna it's a great It's just a great, wonderful desk.
Got nice colors, nice shape. It's really really actually kind

(59:16):
of looks like those one of those Bow's wave radios.
Do you remember the ones that were kind of tall?
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
Yeah, designed it was designed with that in mind.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
It has kind of a shape of a Bo's wave radio.
But no, I think what's good about the show is
that you guys are not you're not taking yourselves too seriously,
and you're making things that are often like a real
down are like pretty pretty accessible. And I think that's
a huge that's a huge asset and like the fact
is like you're not, like you don't have an ego

(59:45):
about it. I think that's great. There's a lot of
people in the world, in the world of investing, like
who'd want to talk about like where money's moving that
have like a huge ego about it, And I think,
like it's actually very refreshing to listen to people who
are like.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
Yeah, so those guys are kind of like our I
guess issues sometimes where I think we get lumped in
with them. When people hear about the show, they go, oh,
finance bros. Pass and it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
No, no, no, a glance. I mean, look at you.
I mean I understand, Like right, they see you, they
see the still frame, they see trillionaire mindset. You got
a couple of bros.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
We thought that the name itself indicate that we're being ironic.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Unfortunately, in that world people are like, yeah, I could
do a trillion I can get there.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
It's our fault for picking an ironic title. Yeah, exact,
it's good.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
I think it's real. I thought I think the titles great,
and I think that the right people will read it,
thank you the way you want them to read it.
And the people who'd read it the other way are
stupid and suck and you don't have to worry about them.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
All right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Any other closing thoughts before we before we go into
that grade to beyond, just that this was very lovely
and I appreciate you having well, I feel that it
was lovely as well. I really enjoyed this conversation. You
guys are super fun duo. You have a lot to say.
You've said a couple of things that are cancellable, but
I think you know you can weather the storm and

(01:01:01):
you know, yeah, we gotta do it again. We got
to come back and we got to see if any
of these predictions are We'd love that. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
Maybe if we're in the same location, we can all
do it irl.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Yeah, well you guys are in La right, Yeah, that's
where all the That's what it all happens. Yeah, it's
all happened anyhow.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
This is great.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
Thank you so much for doing it, and we'll do
it again.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Great, Thank you for having.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Us, Josh, Well, look that is our show. I think
you know, I think you know where I've had it
with this. That is our show for this week. Because
it was it was a big one. We covered a
lot of ground. We left no stone unturned. We got
the full reveal I would say spoiler alert. We said

(01:01:42):
it all and so we've got to wrap up. But
we will be back next week with more what future
and as always, I wish you and your family the
very best