February 28, 2024 • 28 mins
Libby Caswell is unable to share her experience of domestic violence in her own words. In this bonus episode, four anonymous women tell their stories of domestic abuse- the details they remember, the ones they wish they could forget, and how they eventually got out.
If you or anyone you know is experiencing domestic abuse, call the National Domestic Abuse Hotline for help at 1-800-799-7233.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode includes detailed discussion of domestic violence. It can
be hard to hear, but we think it's important not
to gloss over the reality of what happened to Libby
Caswell and what happens to countless other victims every day.
Please take care while listening.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I stayed for so many reasons, you know. I wanted
that image of what I saw for us when we
got married. I wanted my girls to have their dad around.
I wanted, you know, our family to be okay. I
just wanted us to be okay.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Domestic violence relationships have one thing in common, and imbalance
of power and control, but the behaviors used to maintain
that power can take many forms. Abuse that is physical, verbal,
sexual abuse can start subtly and get worse over time.
There can be periods of calm or a constant state
(00:57):
of threat. It can be difficult to recognize from the outside,
but also when you're in it. Whatever form it takes,
domestic violence is ubiquitous in their lifetimes. More than one
in three women in the US will experience rape, physical violence,
or stalking by an intimate partner in their lifetimes. About
(01:19):
one in four women will be subjected to severe physical
violence by their partner, hit with a fist or something hard, beaten,
slammed against something, and not all of them will survive it.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Strangulation became his go to method at the end of
our relationship. When I finally did get out, the only
reason I left really was because I wouldn't be here today.
If I had stayed, he would have killed me, I'm
sure of it.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Libby Caswell endured years of domestic abuse, but we are
unable to share her experience in her own words. And
because we think it's important to let survivors speak for themselves,
we wanted to give them a voice. In this bonus episode,
our team spoke with five women who've all asked to
(02:15):
remain anonymous. Many of the stories may sound similar to
Libby's teenage love, drug use strangulation, but these stories are
all very different from Libby's in one key way. These
women are alive to share them. So I'm going to
step aside and let you hear their stories, the details
(02:39):
they remember and the ones they wish they could forget.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
He was controlling, but at that time I was really young,
and I kind of romanticize the control and the extreme jealousy,
and in addition to that, friends and family would encourage
me to believe, oh my gosh, he loves you so much,
(03:21):
and this is why he's doing this. You're so lucky.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
He was always angry. He would punch walls or punch trees,
or slam doors and punch the bed to create an
environment of physical intimidation threat.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I thought, like, he's got a temper, he can be
really mean. But it wasn't physical or was you know,
I guess emotional more so. But I didn't see it
as abuse at that time.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
All the red flux were there.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I was just didn't have the capacity to understand it.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
When I started dating my abusive boyfriend, a lot of
it started as emotional abuse, psychological abuse, verbal abuse, and
I told myself if it were to ever get physical,
then I would leave because in my mind at the time,
(04:41):
I thought, physical findings is the worst thing that can
happen to me.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
The first time that he ever put his hands on
me was actually right after we had our first child,
and it was my first night out as a new mom.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
A year and a half into our relationship. It physical,
and in that first instance where he was physically violent
with me, I ran home to my parents, and I
cried and I confessed everything.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
We had gone to a concert and we came out
of the concert, and then all of a sudden, he
grabbed me and threw me on the ground in front
of all of these people and all of our friends.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
And at the time, my parents didn't know a lot
about the legal system in America. They are immigrants, their
first language isn't English, So they asked me if I
wanted to report it to the police, and I decided
not to because what's so tricky about domestic violence is
(05:49):
that even though my boyfriend had just been physically violent
with me, I still loved him and I still wanted
to protect him.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
And it happened so fast, and all of our friends
like kind of swooped in and grabbed him and took
him away, and I remember thinking, like, what the hell
was that.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
I did recognize that something was off about my relationship
when he became physically violent with me, but there was
always something in my head saying, well, you're just not
a good enough partner. You just need to change yourself.
You just need to make yourself a better partner, then
(06:31):
the violence will stop.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
And I was pissed. If I'm gonna be honest, I
was really really angry, and I was one of those
like fiercely independent women, like no man's ever gonna put
his hands on me, and then that situation came to
me directly, and so it was, Okay, what are you
going to do now?
Speaker 6 (07:11):
Whenever got upset was always to go up to my
face and grab it by the leg.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
The first time I experienced strangulation in my relationship was
on my thirtieth birthday.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Was around our second year of dating. Was actually during sex,
I remember clearly because at the time I was the
youngest living with my parents and both of them were
at work and I was alone at home. He just
knocked at the door, and I remember feeling really scared.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Because his eyes look.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Lost. He was under the influence of crystal math.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
My ex had planned this whole elaborate birthday party for me,
and he had gotten belligerent, and I had two children
at the time, and our baby was sick, and so
I was like, you know what, this is silly, We're
going home. And as we're driving home, it was only
about five minutes, but he punished me in the face
on the way home, and when we pulled into the driveway,
(08:17):
I got out, and he came around the car and
he grabbed me by my throat and slammed me against
the garage.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
It was definitely shocking to me because we were being
intimate and all of a sudden he laid his hands
on my neck, and I think he had gotten the
notion that I would enjoy this, perhaps as a sexual act,
(08:49):
but since there really was no consent involved in that,
it made me incredibly terrified.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
On his way out, I just was like standing holding
the door open for him to leave, and he looked
at me directly and put his hand around my neck.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And he is a.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Pretty tall guy, around sixty sixty one, and he's big hands,
so it only took him one hand to just go
around my whole neck.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
He was holding me up by my throat against the garage,
and I was like, he's going to kill me. And
then he slammed me on the ground and cracked my
head open. And then he went inside the house, and
I remember thinking, oh, thank god, I'm okay, and I
grabbed the kids out of the car really quickly, and
he had locked me out of the house, so I
(09:46):
broke into our bedroom through the window, holding the kids.
And I barricaded us in the bedroom.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
And I just remember just thinking about who he was
inst asked to what was happening in that moment, I
just was in shock and couldn't believe it. I just
was like so terrified that she felt pretty comfortable doing
that to me.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
He would do it to the point before killing me.
It was more of proving a point. I'm the boss,
you listen to me, you obeyed to me, and then
release you.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I remember sitting in the bathroom like smoking a cigarette, thinking,
I can't believe this just freaking happened to me. So
that was the first time, not the last.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
I actually thought that strangulation was pretty normal, or it
happened so often that it became so normalized. It didn't
especially stand out to me as a red flag. It
was just another kind of manipulation tactic, another method for
him to gain power and control over me.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Once he realized that he had the power to do that,
then what was going to stop him to do more
things in the future.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
For so many years, it went from actual hitting, pushing
and leaving bruises on my arms and realizing, oh, there's bruces,
to strictly using the weight of his body and usually
was like on the bed like way to his body
on me and choking, and then I remember having to
learn how to do self defense, how to hurt him
a center area so he would release, because my fear
(11:56):
was always I'll get killed.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
When I got pregnant and I started leaving with him,
that's when the physical abuse was more intense and frequent
in the relationship. So he felt he had a more
power to do anything that he wanted. However, he was
(12:20):
a very intelligent person and he would physically abuse me,
but not to the point of leaving any marks on
my body. He was pretty aware of the consequences of
having some sort of physical ruths or mark on my body.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I had marks that time, and I was like, oh,
my gosh, people are going to see this. And I'm
a social worker, and that was something I struggled with
for the entire time because I thought I helped people
that are in the same situation that I'm in, and
I'm you know, like pretty much preaching what I'm not practicing,
(13:30):
and so that was really also embarrassing for me, I think,
which contributed to me not saying anything.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
I was a pretty popular student during high school and
I definitely put on a facade of how great my
life was, and to everyone else it seemed like I
had the perfect boyfriend, and to admit to my friends
that hey, actually I'm being abused by him on an
everyday basis was terrifying for me.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I never talked about anything that happened to me with
anybody until I actually left for the final time. He
was very charismatic and like he was fun and funny,
and I tried to protect that, I think, and not
show him in a different life to our friends and family,
(14:22):
and especially my family, I think, because they already weren't
sure about him from the get go, and so I
really didn't want to make him look bad in any way.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
I was with my abuser when we were teenagers, and
I think that made it incredibly more difficult for me
to seek out resources, seek out support. I was terrified
of sharing with my parents and my sister because I
(14:55):
thought that they wouldn't believe me, and that they would
instead chastise me for being with someone at such a
young age, for engaging in sex at such an early age.
So I felt so incredibly alone.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
I never told anyone. I never told anyone what had happened.
I didn't want to believe what had happened, and it
was scary to even think about it, and of course
I wouldn't imagine myself sharing it with anyone.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
And it was shameful too.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Right, just like, oh my gosh, I have this wonderful, charming,
handsome boyfriend.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
What is people going to say?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Why did I say, by yours?
Speaker 6 (16:09):
That's what I was supposed to do, because till death
do your part is your vows, and you have to
honor it for your family's namesake, for your religious sake,
for your culture's sake. You want to be the one
who did everything right. And damn it, there's a one
thing I didn't do right. I didn't pick the right person.
(16:31):
How do I make this better?
Speaker 4 (16:33):
When you're in love with an abuser, your logic changes.
They're so good at changing your logic to a point
where abuse is all that you know, it's all that
you think about, it's all that you justify. I would
have done anything to make my abuser happy. His happiness
(16:56):
was the most important thing to me on the planet.
I thought that this was just my reality, This was
the rest of my wife that I would of course
get married to him. Of course I would have children
with him, and this is just something I would endure
for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
We'll be right back after the break with more from
these women, including how they got out of their abusive
relationships and how they feel about it now. It can
take many attempts to leave an abusive relationship. Libby left
(17:40):
Devon multiple times and came back just as many. This
can be hard to understand from the outside. These women
stories illustrate the risks and costs of leaving, but ultimately
they did leave for good.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
That weekend where I visited him in college was one
of the worst weekends I've ever experienced in my life.
Because we had been going to different colleges, the emotional
and verbal abuse he was putting me through was heightened
because he couldn't physically touch me, he couldn't sexually abuse me.
(18:28):
But when I saw him in person, now in the flesh,
I had all four kinds of abuse that I was experiencing.
So the emotional and verbal abuse continued, but now the
physical violence and the sexual violence were occurring because we
(18:48):
were now physically together. So after that trip, I returned
home and I decided to break up with him. But
often when survivors try to leave, it takes them on
average anywhere from seven to eleven times to actually leave
the relationship, And at that point it probably was my
(19:09):
third or fourth time trying to leave the relationship.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Then I got to the point that he was strangling
me and I was welcoming it. I was like, please
just and kill me, you know, I just fucking kill me.
And that really, really was what kind of kicked my
husband a gear that scared me that I was welcoming it,
(19:34):
and I had gotten so desperate and wanted out of
that situation so badly that I just wanted him to
kill me. And then I thought, what's going to happen
to my girls? It scared the crap out of me.
And one night he came home and told me to
get the luck out of his house and take my
fucking children with me, and I listened, and I didn't
(19:56):
ever turn around. I called my brother. He flew out day,
brought a duffel bag and said, just pack which you
can carry, and so for me and my three girls
through whatever we could carry into one duffel bag, and
he got us out of there while my husband at
the time was just watching us from his car. He
(20:18):
just sat there and watched and like kind of taunted us.
Speaker 6 (20:21):
Eventually I got the courage to say I'm done, and
he attacked me. It was really bad, and I ended
up in the hospital and you know, in a hole.
That was there for three days, but it felt like
I was in a safe place because there were individuals
like me. And that was when I realized being away
and him like, I have a way out.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I have a lot to live. I had a.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
Great therapist in there that reminded me that I still
have plenty of years to live and I was able
to get out of that scenario because of that. Realizing
the way I still see God and religion it's not
the way of to get through part.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
No matter what they.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
Do, it's only when they honor you.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
It's a mutual honor. And realizing that gave me so
much freedom.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
My son started to imitate his behavior. My son was
around six at that time, and that was impactful to me.
I cannot allow this to happen. Seeing my son, I
knew if I had said, he would have totally adopted
that behavior. And my daughters were going to learn what
(21:35):
I was doing, right, So that really helped me have.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
The courage to leave that a music relationship.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
At that time, we were leaving his mother's home and
he would not allow me to live with my kids.
I was undocumented and he was documented, so he used
my latest status to threaten me to take me to
Tajuanic and kill me, you know, or to take the
kids to Mexico. And I would never find out where
(22:07):
he was with my kids, and it got to the
point where I was one hundred percent isolated from my
family and friends. But my parents got really worried that
they were not able to talk to me, and one
time they just came to visit and my father was like,
what's going on And I was like, Oh, everything's okay.
(22:28):
I'm just like, you know, out all the time, busy
with the kids. He's like, no, but we know what's happening.
And my father was like, you're not my daughter anymore,
and I want my daughter back. So it really helped
(22:49):
me to leave the shame and fear off my shoulders
and knowing that I was not alone. So after that,
I just came up with the plan to leave. But
that was just the beginning of a long journey of
leaving safely and seeing safe with my.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Kids, leaving an abusive relationship, You're afraid to love again.
(23:30):
You're afraid to trust others because you might feel that
people are inherently bad or people are out to get you.
When I look back at my younger self, sometimes I
wish I could shake her shoulders and be like, there
are eight billion people in the world I have yet
(23:54):
to meet, so many amazing people that I don't need
to endure this. There are many many people I'll continue
to meet who would love me for who I am,
will never ever lay their hands on me, never ever
say disgusting insults and comments to me, and I wouldn't
(24:17):
have to spend the majority of my days crying and
screaming and feeling so incredibly glow.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
The aftermath has been quite a roller coaster. We're going on,
let's see, nine years that I got out, and I
still have hard days. I still, you know, because I
still have scars from him, I still have marks. But
definitely the emotional abuse was brutal, Like I was a
(24:49):
shell of a person when I came back, and that
has taken a lot of time and work, and I
kind of just dove into like things that I loved
because he had take and all those away from me.
That has been my path to kind of healing. I
know that I have a longer way to go, and
(25:09):
I think that's hard for me. I feel frustrated sometimes
because I think, God, I should be better by now,
and I can't rush it. You know, there's no rushing it,
and so I have to kind of take a step
back and say, you know, you'll be okay when you're
supposed to be okay, which isn't always easy.
Speaker 6 (25:29):
And actually do have a scar from my then spouse.
He did cut me pretty bad in one of my arms,
and I actually do have a scar in my body
that always reminds me I did live this. But you
carry these cars, but people don't see those cars because
they're in your heart. They're in your soul, they're in
your mind, they're in your triggers, they're in the defense
(25:49):
mechanism that you build around yourself.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
You have to be okay with the uncertainty of what
lies ahead. And it's okay if you make mistakes. It's
okay if you don't do things right the first time,
second time, third time. You know, just be patient with yourself.
I think that would be the best advice I can give.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
If you, or anyone you know is experiencing domestic abuse,
you can call the National Domestic Abuse Hotline for help.
That number is one eight hundred seven nine nine seven
two three three. Thank you also to the National Network
to End Domestic Violence for their help with this episode.
For more information, you can visit their website to find
(26:37):
a coalition near you at NNEDV dot org. What Happened
To Libbycaswell is written, reported, and hosted by me Melissa Jelson.
This episode was written by Lauren Hansen and edited and
mixed by Jeremy Thal. Our executive producer is Ryan Murda.
(27:00):
For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are Jason English and Katrina Norvel,
with our supervising producer Carl Catl. Our theme song is
written by Aaron Kaufman and performed by Aaron Kaufman and
Elizabeth Wolfe. Original music by Aaron Kaufman with additional music
by Jeremy Thal. To find out more about my investigation
(27:22):
or to send a tip, please email me at what
Happened to Libby at gmail dot com. Thanks so much
for listening. One five.
Speaker 6 (27:48):
In Peace, in Pieces and Bozo, You us tell one
away a five mine so
Speaker 2 (28:09):
And he SAIDs, and the SAIDs, and the thing
This episode includes detailed discussion of domestic violence. It can
be hard to hear, but we think it's important not
to gloss over the reality of what happened to Libby
Caswell and what happens to countless other victims every day.
Please take care while listening.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I stayed for so many reasons, you know. I wanted
that image of what I saw for us when we
got married. I wanted my girls to have their dad around.
I wanted, you know, our family to be okay. I
just wanted us to be okay.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Domestic violence relationships have one thing in common, and imbalance
of power and control, but the behaviors used to maintain
that power can take many forms. Abuse that is physical, verbal,
sexual abuse can start subtly and get worse over time.
There can be periods of calm or a constant state
(00:57):
of threat. It can be difficult to recognize from the outside,
but also when you're in it. Whatever form it takes,
domestic violence is ubiquitous in their lifetimes. More than one
in three women in the US will experience rape, physical violence,
or stalking by an intimate partner in their lifetimes. About
(01:19):
one in four women will be subjected to severe physical
violence by their partner, hit with a fist or something hard, beaten,
slammed against something, and not all of them will survive it.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Strangulation became his go to method at the end of
our relationship. When I finally did get out, the only
reason I left really was because I wouldn't be here today.
If I had stayed, he would have killed me, I'm
sure of it.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Libby Caswell endured years of domestic abuse, but we are
unable to share her experience in her own words. And
because we think it's important to let survivors speak for themselves,
we wanted to give them a voice. In this bonus episode,
our team spoke with five women who've all asked to
(02:15):
remain anonymous. Many of the stories may sound similar to
Libby's teenage love, drug use strangulation, but these stories are
all very different from Libby's in one key way. These
women are alive to share them. So I'm going to
step aside and let you hear their stories, the details
(02:39):
they remember and the ones they wish they could forget.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
He was controlling, but at that time I was really young,
and I kind of romanticize the control and the extreme jealousy,
and in addition to that, friends and family would encourage
me to believe, oh my gosh, he loves you so much,
(03:21):
and this is why he's doing this. You're so lucky.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
He was always angry. He would punch walls or punch trees,
or slam doors and punch the bed to create an
environment of physical intimidation threat.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I thought, like, he's got a temper, he can be
really mean. But it wasn't physical or was you know,
I guess emotional more so. But I didn't see it
as abuse at that time.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
All the red flux were there.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I was just didn't have the capacity to understand it.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
When I started dating my abusive boyfriend, a lot of
it started as emotional abuse, psychological abuse, verbal abuse, and
I told myself if it were to ever get physical,
then I would leave because in my mind at the time,
(04:41):
I thought, physical findings is the worst thing that can
happen to me.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
The first time that he ever put his hands on
me was actually right after we had our first child,
and it was my first night out as a new mom.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
A year and a half into our relationship. It physical,
and in that first instance where he was physically violent
with me, I ran home to my parents, and I
cried and I confessed everything.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
We had gone to a concert and we came out
of the concert, and then all of a sudden, he
grabbed me and threw me on the ground in front
of all of these people and all of our friends.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
And at the time, my parents didn't know a lot
about the legal system in America. They are immigrants, their
first language isn't English, So they asked me if I
wanted to report it to the police, and I decided
not to because what's so tricky about domestic violence is
(05:49):
that even though my boyfriend had just been physically violent
with me, I still loved him and I still wanted
to protect him.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
And it happened so fast, and all of our friends
like kind of swooped in and grabbed him and took
him away, and I remember thinking, like, what the hell
was that.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
I did recognize that something was off about my relationship
when he became physically violent with me, but there was
always something in my head saying, well, you're just not
a good enough partner. You just need to change yourself.
You just need to make yourself a better partner, then
(06:31):
the violence will stop.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
And I was pissed. If I'm gonna be honest, I
was really really angry, and I was one of those
like fiercely independent women, like no man's ever gonna put
his hands on me, and then that situation came to
me directly, and so it was, Okay, what are you
going to do now?
Speaker 6 (07:11):
Whenever got upset was always to go up to my
face and grab it by the leg.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
The first time I experienced strangulation in my relationship was
on my thirtieth birthday.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Was around our second year of dating. Was actually during sex,
I remember clearly because at the time I was the
youngest living with my parents and both of them were
at work and I was alone at home. He just
knocked at the door, and I remember feeling really scared.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Because his eyes look.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Lost. He was under the influence of crystal math.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
My ex had planned this whole elaborate birthday party for me,
and he had gotten belligerent, and I had two children
at the time, and our baby was sick, and so
I was like, you know what, this is silly, We're
going home. And as we're driving home, it was only
about five minutes, but he punished me in the face
on the way home, and when we pulled into the driveway,
(08:17):
I got out, and he came around the car and
he grabbed me by my throat and slammed me against
the garage.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
It was definitely shocking to me because we were being
intimate and all of a sudden he laid his hands
on my neck, and I think he had gotten the
notion that I would enjoy this, perhaps as a sexual act,
(08:49):
but since there really was no consent involved in that,
it made me incredibly terrified.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
On his way out, I just was like standing holding
the door open for him to leave, and he looked
at me directly and put his hand around my neck.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And he is a.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Pretty tall guy, around sixty sixty one, and he's big hands,
so it only took him one hand to just go
around my whole neck.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
He was holding me up by my throat against the garage,
and I was like, he's going to kill me. And
then he slammed me on the ground and cracked my
head open. And then he went inside the house, and
I remember thinking, oh, thank god, I'm okay, and I
grabbed the kids out of the car really quickly, and
he had locked me out of the house, so I
(09:46):
broke into our bedroom through the window, holding the kids.
And I barricaded us in the bedroom.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
And I just remember just thinking about who he was
inst asked to what was happening in that moment, I
just was in shock and couldn't believe it. I just
was like so terrified that she felt pretty comfortable doing
that to me.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
He would do it to the point before killing me.
It was more of proving a point. I'm the boss,
you listen to me, you obeyed to me, and then
release you.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I remember sitting in the bathroom like smoking a cigarette, thinking,
I can't believe this just freaking happened to me. So
that was the first time, not the last.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
I actually thought that strangulation was pretty normal, or it
happened so often that it became so normalized. It didn't
especially stand out to me as a red flag. It
was just another kind of manipulation tactic, another method for
him to gain power and control over me.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Once he realized that he had the power to do that,
then what was going to stop him to do more
things in the future.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
For so many years, it went from actual hitting, pushing
and leaving bruises on my arms and realizing, oh, there's bruces,
to strictly using the weight of his body and usually
was like on the bed like way to his body
on me and choking, and then I remember having to
learn how to do self defense, how to hurt him
a center area so he would release, because my fear
(11:56):
was always I'll get killed.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
When I got pregnant and I started leaving with him,
that's when the physical abuse was more intense and frequent
in the relationship. So he felt he had a more
power to do anything that he wanted. However, he was
(12:20):
a very intelligent person and he would physically abuse me,
but not to the point of leaving any marks on
my body. He was pretty aware of the consequences of
having some sort of physical ruths or mark on my body.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I had marks that time, and I was like, oh,
my gosh, people are going to see this. And I'm
a social worker, and that was something I struggled with
for the entire time because I thought I helped people
that are in the same situation that I'm in, and
I'm you know, like pretty much preaching what I'm not practicing,
(13:30):
and so that was really also embarrassing for me, I think,
which contributed to me not saying anything.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
I was a pretty popular student during high school and
I definitely put on a facade of how great my
life was, and to everyone else it seemed like I
had the perfect boyfriend, and to admit to my friends
that hey, actually I'm being abused by him on an
everyday basis was terrifying for me.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I never talked about anything that happened to me with
anybody until I actually left for the final time. He
was very charismatic and like he was fun and funny,
and I tried to protect that, I think, and not
show him in a different life to our friends and family,
(14:22):
and especially my family, I think, because they already weren't
sure about him from the get go, and so I
really didn't want to make him look bad in any way.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
I was with my abuser when we were teenagers, and
I think that made it incredibly more difficult for me
to seek out resources, seek out support. I was terrified
of sharing with my parents and my sister because I
(14:55):
thought that they wouldn't believe me, and that they would
instead chastise me for being with someone at such a
young age, for engaging in sex at such an early age.
So I felt so incredibly alone.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
I never told anyone. I never told anyone what had happened.
I didn't want to believe what had happened, and it
was scary to even think about it, and of course
I wouldn't imagine myself sharing it with anyone.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
And it was shameful too.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Right, just like, oh my gosh, I have this wonderful, charming,
handsome boyfriend.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
What is people going to say?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Why did I say, by yours?
Speaker 6 (16:09):
That's what I was supposed to do, because till death
do your part is your vows, and you have to
honor it for your family's namesake, for your religious sake,
for your culture's sake. You want to be the one
who did everything right. And damn it, there's a one
thing I didn't do right. I didn't pick the right person.
(16:31):
How do I make this better?
Speaker 4 (16:33):
When you're in love with an abuser, your logic changes.
They're so good at changing your logic to a point
where abuse is all that you know, it's all that
you think about, it's all that you justify. I would
have done anything to make my abuser happy. His happiness
(16:56):
was the most important thing to me on the planet.
I thought that this was just my reality, This was
the rest of my wife that I would of course
get married to him. Of course I would have children
with him, and this is just something I would endure
for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
We'll be right back after the break with more from
these women, including how they got out of their abusive
relationships and how they feel about it now. It can
take many attempts to leave an abusive relationship. Libby left
(17:40):
Devon multiple times and came back just as many. This
can be hard to understand from the outside. These women
stories illustrate the risks and costs of leaving, but ultimately
they did leave for good.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
That weekend where I visited him in college was one
of the worst weekends I've ever experienced in my life.
Because we had been going to different colleges, the emotional
and verbal abuse he was putting me through was heightened
because he couldn't physically touch me, he couldn't sexually abuse me.
(18:28):
But when I saw him in person, now in the flesh,
I had all four kinds of abuse that I was experiencing.
So the emotional and verbal abuse continued, but now the
physical violence and the sexual violence were occurring because we
(18:48):
were now physically together. So after that trip, I returned
home and I decided to break up with him. But
often when survivors try to leave, it takes them on
average anywhere from seven to eleven times to actually leave
the relationship, And at that point it probably was my
(19:09):
third or fourth time trying to leave the relationship.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Then I got to the point that he was strangling
me and I was welcoming it. I was like, please
just and kill me, you know, I just fucking kill me.
And that really, really was what kind of kicked my
husband a gear that scared me that I was welcoming it,
(19:34):
and I had gotten so desperate and wanted out of
that situation so badly that I just wanted him to
kill me. And then I thought, what's going to happen
to my girls? It scared the crap out of me.
And one night he came home and told me to
get the luck out of his house and take my
fucking children with me, and I listened, and I didn't
(19:56):
ever turn around. I called my brother. He flew out day,
brought a duffel bag and said, just pack which you
can carry, and so for me and my three girls
through whatever we could carry into one duffel bag, and
he got us out of there while my husband at
the time was just watching us from his car. He
(20:18):
just sat there and watched and like kind of taunted us.
Speaker 6 (20:21):
Eventually I got the courage to say I'm done, and
he attacked me. It was really bad, and I ended
up in the hospital and you know, in a hole.
That was there for three days, but it felt like
I was in a safe place because there were individuals
like me. And that was when I realized being away
and him like, I have a way out.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I have a lot to live. I had a.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
Great therapist in there that reminded me that I still
have plenty of years to live and I was able
to get out of that scenario because of that. Realizing
the way I still see God and religion it's not
the way of to get through part.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
No matter what they.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
Do, it's only when they honor you.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
It's a mutual honor. And realizing that gave me so
much freedom.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
My son started to imitate his behavior. My son was
around six at that time, and that was impactful to me.
I cannot allow this to happen. Seeing my son, I
knew if I had said, he would have totally adopted
that behavior. And my daughters were going to learn what
(21:35):
I was doing, right, So that really helped me have.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
The courage to leave that a music relationship.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
At that time, we were leaving his mother's home and
he would not allow me to live with my kids.
I was undocumented and he was documented, so he used
my latest status to threaten me to take me to
Tajuanic and kill me, you know, or to take the
kids to Mexico. And I would never find out where
(22:07):
he was with my kids, and it got to the
point where I was one hundred percent isolated from my
family and friends. But my parents got really worried that
they were not able to talk to me, and one
time they just came to visit and my father was like,
what's going on And I was like, Oh, everything's okay.
(22:28):
I'm just like, you know, out all the time, busy
with the kids. He's like, no, but we know what's happening.
And my father was like, you're not my daughter anymore,
and I want my daughter back. So it really helped
(22:49):
me to leave the shame and fear off my shoulders
and knowing that I was not alone. So after that,
I just came up with the plan to leave. But
that was just the beginning of a long journey of
leaving safely and seeing safe with my.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Kids, leaving an abusive relationship, You're afraid to love again.
(23:30):
You're afraid to trust others because you might feel that
people are inherently bad or people are out to get you.
When I look back at my younger self, sometimes I
wish I could shake her shoulders and be like, there
are eight billion people in the world I have yet
(23:54):
to meet, so many amazing people that I don't need
to endure this. There are many many people I'll continue
to meet who would love me for who I am,
will never ever lay their hands on me, never ever
say disgusting insults and comments to me, and I wouldn't
(24:17):
have to spend the majority of my days crying and
screaming and feeling so incredibly glow.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
The aftermath has been quite a roller coaster. We're going on,
let's see, nine years that I got out, and I
still have hard days. I still, you know, because I
still have scars from him, I still have marks. But
definitely the emotional abuse was brutal, Like I was a
(24:49):
shell of a person when I came back, and that
has taken a lot of time and work, and I
kind of just dove into like things that I loved
because he had take and all those away from me.
That has been my path to kind of healing. I
know that I have a longer way to go, and
(25:09):
I think that's hard for me. I feel frustrated sometimes
because I think, God, I should be better by now,
and I can't rush it. You know, there's no rushing it,
and so I have to kind of take a step
back and say, you know, you'll be okay when you're
supposed to be okay, which isn't always easy.
Speaker 6 (25:29):
And actually do have a scar from my then spouse.
He did cut me pretty bad in one of my arms,
and I actually do have a scar in my body
that always reminds me I did live this. But you
carry these cars, but people don't see those cars because
they're in your heart. They're in your soul, they're in
your mind, they're in your triggers, they're in the defense
(25:49):
mechanism that you build around yourself.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
You have to be okay with the uncertainty of what
lies ahead. And it's okay if you make mistakes. It's
okay if you don't do things right the first time,
second time, third time. You know, just be patient with yourself.
I think that would be the best advice I can give.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
If you, or anyone you know is experiencing domestic abuse,
you can call the National Domestic Abuse Hotline for help.
That number is one eight hundred seven nine nine seven
two three three. Thank you also to the National Network
to End Domestic Violence for their help with this episode.
For more information, you can visit their website to find
(26:37):
a coalition near you at NNEDV dot org. What Happened
To Libbycaswell is written, reported, and hosted by me Melissa Jelson.
This episode was written by Lauren Hansen and edited and
mixed by Jeremy Thal. Our executive producer is Ryan Murda.
(27:00):
For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are Jason English and Katrina Norvel,
with our supervising producer Carl Catl. Our theme song is
written by Aaron Kaufman and performed by Aaron Kaufman and
Elizabeth Wolfe. Original music by Aaron Kaufman with additional music
by Jeremy Thal. To find out more about my investigation
(27:22):
or to send a tip, please email me at what
Happened to Libby at gmail dot com. Thanks so much
for listening. One five.
Speaker 6 (27:48):
In Peace, in Pieces and Bozo, You us tell one
away a five mine so
Speaker 2 (28:09):
And he SAIDs, and the SAIDs, and the thing
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