November 22, 2023 • 34 mins
We learn more about the secrets in Libby’s life that threatened to endanger it, and the tumultuous cycle that led Cindy to a difficult decision.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Originals.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is an iHeart original. This story might be hard
to hear. There's detailed talk of suicide and violence, but
we think it's important not to gloss over the reality
of what happened to Libby Caswell. Please take care while listening.
(00:25):
I've read a few autopsy reports over the years, and
it's always a peculiar, disconcerting experience. They're written in dispassionate
clinical language and yet are oddly intimate. For example, in
Libby's nine page report, we learned that her right lung
weighed ten grams more than her left. Her teeth were
(00:46):
in good repair and appeared healthy. Old acne scars were
visible on her forehead. Libby's autopsy was performed by doctor
Robert Pyitek of the Jackson County Medical Examiner's Office the
day after her body was discovered at the sports stadium
in She still had Devon's belt around her neck. Doctor
(01:08):
Pytak noted that Libby's neck was completely encircled with a
mark called a ligature furrow, apparently caused by the belt
pressing into her skin. He also documented a number of
other bruises and abrasions on Libby's throat, chest, back, and hands.
The opinion section of the report is short and concise.
(01:31):
Libby died of asphyxia a lack of oxygen, but doctor
Pytak could not determine if Libby had hanged herself or
was strangled by someone else, and so he left the
manner of death undetermined. There's one more page of the autopsy,
(01:53):
the results of Libby's post mortem toxicology report. Libby's blood
was tested for certain substances like cocaine, which was negative,
and alcohol, which was negligible. But one drug did show
up at the time of her death. Libby had a
high level of methamphetamine in her body.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
You know, she was found with a toxing amount of
math in her system, and so I struggled with that
when I got that report.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Meth didn't literally kill Libby, but as I discovered reporting
the story, it was a big part of her undoing
as a fun through wine.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Sod is She.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
From iHeart Podcasts. I'm Melissa Jelson, and this is what
happened to Libby Caswell.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
When I walked past, I saw him roll her to
the side and just punch your really hard in the thigh.
I was like, kind of like what I did?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
He just hit her, but just the rest a little bit.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Did something bad happened that thanks kind of out of control?
Speaker 5 (03:13):
No, sir, positive that promise.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
He would laugh and say that you're never going to
catch me. I am too smart for them, And yeah,
he'd just run off.
Speaker 6 (03:29):
You know, I couldn't be there could be a thousand.
Speaker 7 (03:31):
Maybe I should, but that didn't. What happened.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
A chapter four talk.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I knew you know a lot about marijuana growing up,
but I'd never heard about meth amphetamine because we didn't
know anything about that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Cindy Libby's mom isn't what I would call a partier.
She rarely drinks, doesn't smoke cigarettes, and would rather watch
TV than stay out late. She told me that recently
she began using legal marijuana edibles to help with the
dread and anxiety that surfaces when she tries to sleep
at night. But although Cindy didn't have any personal experience
(04:37):
with meth a highly addictive drug that can be made
with household chemicals. The town she raised her family and
did in the nineteen nineties, Around the same time Cindy
started having kids, Missouri and Independence in particular became a
hotbed of meth production. In nineteen ninety six, alone, authorities
(04:57):
busted seventy five meth labs in Dependence, the largest number
per capita in the nation. This prompted the Christian Science
Monitor to dub it the quote meth capital of the
United States. Rolling Stone later ran a feature story on
Independence called Postcards from Tweakville that solidified its reputation as
(05:19):
a meth haven. Fox News ran a national story that
shined the spotlight on meth and the Independence Police Department.
How bad is the myth problem an Independence, Missouri?
Speaker 7 (05:32):
And it's bad.
Speaker 8 (05:34):
We've got a major epidemic.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
For the next decade or so, meth continued to dominate
local headlines and shape the workings of the police.
Speaker 9 (05:42):
Every night, Independence police make at least three arrests related
to methews.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
They wont ipd solicited help from the community, and positioned
itself as the best solution to the problem.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
To stop the.
Speaker 9 (05:54):
Cycle, Independence police are asking residents and business owners to
call police about suspicious drug activity.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
And while the labs were mostly busted by the time
Libby and Devon were in high school, the town was
still sometimes disparagingly referred to as meth dependents, and the
drug it was still pretty easy to find. I don't
know for sure what year Libby first tried meth, but
by her friend's accounts, it took place in high school
(06:21):
sometime after Zave was born, and it was her boyfriend
Devin who introduced her to the drug.
Speaker 10 (06:27):
He had started dabbling and drug like harder drugs than
what any seventeen year old s could be doing.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Holly, Libby's high school friend.
Speaker 8 (06:38):
It wasn't just the.
Speaker 10 (06:38):
Weed that he was, you know, smoking, and I think
that's whenever he had actually started doing meth, and then
he got Libby on it. She said that, you know,
he kind of peer pressured her into trying it because
they were in front of you know, a bunch of
head spreads.
Speaker 6 (06:54):
I mean, I didn't think she knew about alcohol by
the time she met him, and then she knew. She
met him, she knew every drug, every pill, every drink everything.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Nathan was childhood friends with Libby and later became friends
with Devin too. He told me they would all sometimes
get high on meth together.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
For Libby, I think it just made her more sociable.
I think that we both always agreed that we liked
the rush of it. Russia gave us. That's what I like,
not that, And I like the fact that like whenever
I did it, you know, I you know, could go
in public, I could, I could basically accomplish anythings what
it made me feel like.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
As Nathan saw it, Libby used meth to boost her
confidence and maybe also to fit into Devon's social circle.
This new part of her life. She kept it secret
from her family and even many of her close friends.
Here's Holly again.
Speaker 10 (07:46):
She didn't tell me about the first time.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
I mean, she just kind of goes to me for
a while.
Speaker 10 (07:51):
I knew she was doing something, but she just wouldn't
admit it to me at first. And she just finally
broke down one day and she's like, I don't know
what to do anymore.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
And here's where I believe Libby's life split in two,
the bright social side that she presented to her friends
and family and the darker, drug consumed side that she
kept hidden. But with a drug like meth, it's not
so easy to conceal its effects from those who really
know you, and her family soon began to suspect something
(08:23):
was going on. Here's Natalie, her younger sister.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Her whole face would just completely change and she would
be like just not herself. She was always like this
really bubbly, happy, talkative person, and then when we would
go see her, she was just like depressed and angry
and irritable, and so it was like a completely different person.
(08:50):
And that's how we started to recognize when she was
on and off.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Cindy started to notice something was wrong when Libby, already
lean rapidly lost a lot of wait.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I said, Libby, I'm so worried about you. You look
like a skeleton. You know, are you eating? What's happening?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
And what was it like for you to see your
daughter in that situation?
Speaker 10 (09:11):
It was bad.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
It was just devastating. I would leave here and cry.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Libby and Devon would use together on and off again
from around the age of seventeen until Libby's death at
twenty one. Their drug use pushed their relationship even more
into the shadows, away from others. Probing eyes and Libby's
friends tell me, the more Devin used drugs, the more
(09:41):
violent he became.
Speaker 8 (09:43):
She told me that when they would get in fights
and it would be really bad. He would push her,
hold her down and choke her, and.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
He would do it in front of their kids.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
When he was on drugs, he was really cool. That's
how we quit. But then you know, he was doing
drugs and he was one of those people that stayed
up for like a week, and when you do that,
you get crazy, you know. So he was always paranoid.
He's always angry, violent. He really went off the rails
that met. Like some people go off the rails, some
people don't.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
There's a lot of alarmist rhetoric around meth users that
they're unhinged, psychotic, and deeply dangerous. Take this Fox News
clip from the nineties and where meth goes death violence.
I'm talking about a drug.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
That induces violent behavior, that creates violence in people who
never have been violent, wouldn't think of being violent.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
This is still a common stereotype about people who use
meth and other drugs too, that they are more likely
to be violent, and specifically violent towards the people closest
to them.
Speaker 11 (10:55):
Not everyone who abuses substance is a domestic balance offender.
I think the important thing to remembers it doesn't cause
the abuse, but it definitely complicates abuse.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Mariann Metheni is the CEO of the Hope House, a
domestic violence agency that covers the Kansas City area, including Independence.
She has seen firsthand the complicated, interconnected relationship between drugs
and domestic violence, how drugs can hypercharge abuse that.
Speaker 11 (11:24):
Can take a situation into a more violent level much
more quickly when someone is intoxicated.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
And how drug use can isolate victims even further.
Speaker 11 (11:35):
I think where it gets difficult and it's really hard
for people to understand is that it is an unpallenge
for the victim and to also be someone who uses substances.
It can be a way to deal with what's going
on and trying to escape for just a little while,
like my world is falling apart, it's easier for me
to use. The other piece is that it's often used
(11:58):
as a control mechanism by the abuser as well. But
it's not uncommon for an abuser to force someone to
use at the same time that they're using, and then
becoming addicted becomes just part of that whole relationship.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Mathemei has observed how abusers often blame drugs and alcohol
for their own bad behavior. I'm not abusive, I was
just high. Victims may desperately want to believe this narrative too.
Speaker 11 (12:25):
Because it's easier in your mind to rationalize this atrocity
of behaviors that's happening to you, because otherwise you have
to look at this person and say, but you really
don't care about me if you're going to abuse me,
Because the reality is a person would have been doing
those things to you even if they were sober, because
we know that substances don't cause it.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I don't want to give the impression that drug used
defined Libby's life. She quit using on a number of
occasions and had long prosperous spells where she was clean
and sober. These periods, they tended to coincide with times
when she broke.
Speaker 12 (13:04):
Up with Devon, and that's whenever Libby was really her
best is when Devin wasn't around. She could see her
full potential, but.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Inevitably he would re enter the picture. Libby's friends Autumna
Mariah explained to me what that cycle looks like.
Speaker 12 (13:20):
Libby was almost like a dog on a leash, like
she could only get so far from Devon before here
comes Devon or here comes Devin's call.
Speaker 8 (13:28):
He would come back when he was sober.
Speaker 12 (13:30):
He would convince everybody. He's gonna do the right thing,
you know, and treat her right, and treat Zab right.
Speaker 8 (13:34):
He would love bomb her and give her everything, tell
her whatever she wanted, and all she wanted was to
be a family with the father of her child, and
he would promise her that.
Speaker 12 (13:48):
That's pretty much how Libby always got looped back into
the cycle, as how he claimed he'd be a good
dad this time around. You know, Zab needs a dad.
Blah blah blah blah blah, the whole good dad game.
Speaker 8 (13:59):
Sometimes they would be good for months. He wouldn't hurt her,
they wouldn't use drugs, they would be clean and happy
and healthy. And then the newness and him trying starts.
Speaker 13 (14:14):
To wear off, and he would get mean again, and
then he would go out and use drugs, and then
she would end up using as well, because I mean,
her partner's out there doing everything and being abusive to her.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And how many times you estimate that this happened while
you knew her.
Speaker 8 (14:34):
In the couple of years, probably like three or four.
Speaker 6 (14:40):
I know she always felt like when.
Speaker 8 (14:42):
She had nothing less like that's what she had was
him and drugs, and she would just keep keep going
back until she got her feet under her again, and
she'd kick him and kick the drugs and be happy
and healthy and sober by herself.
Speaker 14 (15:07):
Here, Menny, Happy birthday to you, Happy birthday to you,
Happy birthday year.
Speaker 12 (15:19):
Save.
Speaker 15 (15:21):
Half birthday to you.
Speaker 14 (15:24):
Flow your candles, load a candle fire.
Speaker 13 (15:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Do you want a piece of the Batman cake.
Speaker 14 (15:38):
Cake?
Speaker 9 (15:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 14 (15:40):
Okay, okay, I'm gonna give you some hand on.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
It's the beginning of May twenty seventeen. Zave is turning four.
Libby bake's in a chocolate cake decorated with a blue
and gold Batman symbol. It looks professional Cindy would be proud.
In the video, Libby appears happy and carefree, a mom
trying to make her son's birthday special, but really she's
(16:06):
putting on a brave face. Just a few days earlier,
she and Devin broke up once again, and this time
when he left, he took the car she used to
get to work and drained their joint bank account, leaving
her stranded and broke right before reent was due. Libby
was sad and understandably furious, but stealing with something Devin
(16:28):
was known to do when he was using he stole
from strangers, friends, and now the woman he claimed to love.
A few weeks later, Devin's reckless behavior caught up to him.
He was arrested and charged with burglarizing someone's apartment. He
ended up spending most of the summer behind bars. It
was a long time to be away from Libby. By
(16:50):
my estimate, this was the longest separation that had in years,
and for Libby this was a complicated period. She was
grieving the law loss of the life. She was trying
to build a family with Devon and Zave, but Devn's
incarceration allowed her enough space, both mental and physical, to
(17:11):
start reimagining her future.
Speaker 16 (17:14):
She was always out going, you know, and happy that
she also was a little stressed because she was trying
to do everything on her own.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
With Devon out of the picture, Libby began to re
establish relationships with people should cut off, especially her mom Cindy.
Speaker 16 (17:34):
We would make dinners and we had one of those
speakers that hipped up to the bluetooth and we'd take
her and spicking out songs.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
You know, and playing music. That summer, Libby kept herself
busy between visits with family, looking after Zaev, and a
new job at the mall food court, where she got
to work beside her friend Mariah.
Speaker 7 (17:56):
Oh was there recording yep.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
This is a clip of them walking from the park
working a lot to the mall entrance, already dressed in
their uniforms for the day. The person making that whoo
sound that's Libby in this video. She's laughing, mugging for
the camera, a pretty normal twenty one year old on
her way to a summer job. She worked right next
(18:19):
door to me.
Speaker 17 (18:19):
We would take our breaks in the hallway together.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
We would talk all day during work.
Speaker 17 (18:23):
I mean, our managers hated that we worked right next
to each other. We were constantly talking, constantly causing chaos together.
We would hang out outside of work almost every day,
if not every weekend.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Mariah's strongest memory of Libby this summer. The last summer
of Libby's life, was the day she showed up at
the mall to return the engagement ring Devin had given
her that past Christmas.
Speaker 17 (18:49):
I'll never forget. She called me in a super good mood,
saying that she's on the way up to the mall,
but it was her day off and she wanted me
to come out and walk inside with her. She was
just being She came up to the mall to a
exchange and get her money back for the ring that
Devin had bought her, and she said she.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Was going to be moving on. She told me like
she was done, done going back and forth.
Speaker 17 (19:08):
She's finally going to do what she needed to do
for her and she was finally turning a page.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Many people do successfully get out of abusive relationships. I've
met a lot of them, heard their stories. Rarely does
it happen on the first try, or even the second
or the third. In my opinion, the cycle that Libby
went through clean and single, using and back with Devon,
that was her process of trying to leave. Because leaving
(19:40):
is a process. It takes time and resources and support
and a hell of a lot of courage. And that
summer of twenty seventeen seemed like a turning point for Libby.
She was building a new foundation for her life. But
it wouldn't it turned out be enough.
Speaker 17 (20:03):
As soon as Devin came back into the picture. She
lost her car, her apartment, her job, everything, you know.
The only thing she was still hanging on to was
her sobriety.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Devin is released from jail in mid July. Almost immediately,
he tries to get back into Libby's life, calling and
coming by her apartment. Libby resists, stays vigilant. She never
knew when Devin was watching.
Speaker 17 (20:29):
I can't tell you a single time at night that
she'd ever have her blinds up, and she always was
looking over her shoulder always.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
When Devin fails to get Libby's attention, he posts on
Facebook about how she was stopping him from being the
good dad he yearned to be. Quote, Daddy has a
big boy and it's killing him not to be able
to see him. Libby, please just be grown about all this. Please,
It's not his fault that we can't seem to stay
in cahoots with one another. To all the mothers out there,
(21:00):
let your child be in the father's life. His next
post turns angry. I'm about to snap like a slim gem.
Can't believe the choices that she's making. WTF she won't
answer my calls. I don't know how Libby responded to
Devin's aggressive please, because she didn't share any of this
(21:22):
with her family. Here's Cindy.
Speaker 16 (21:28):
She didn't tell me a lot of stuff because she
knew I would be mad if she was talking to
I think she was ashamed of it, you know, like
after everything he had done to her.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
The close bonds that Cindy and Libby rebuilt that summer
disappears pretty quickly.
Speaker 16 (21:44):
I started not being able to really talk to her,
Like I noticed less contact with me, only like about Xavier.
And when we had to have contact, I was calling
her and texting her where are you?
Speaker 6 (22:02):
You know.
Speaker 5 (22:05):
I need to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Cindy had been here before. She knew what it meant
when Libby went silent. It meant Devon was back in
Libby's life, and probably meth was too. Cindy knew Libby
was back with Devon and using, and she felt powerless,
(22:30):
unable to help this situation. It might sound familiar if
you have a family member who struggles with substance abuse.
It can be impossible to know the right thing to do,
how to support your loved one without feeling like you're
enabling their drug use or punishing them when they're already
so low and practically there's very few options and not
(22:53):
a lot of resources for families going through this. Cindy's
overriding concern is her daughter's safety and the safety of
her grandson, Xavier. She's worried that he might be being
left unsupervised, and so she takes a quote tough love approach.
On September seventh, twenty seventeen, she calls Missouri's child welfare
(23:16):
hotline to report that she believes Xavier is living in
a home where drugs are being used.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
I felt horrible at first.
Speaker 16 (23:25):
I was just really down about that. But I was
also conflicted because I thought, this is exactly what needs
to happen. She needs to have this accountability and make
it serious, like you're gonna lose your child over this guy.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
The repercussions are swift and severe. Almost immediately, Xavier is
placed into temporary custody with Cindy. Libya is assigned a
case manager, and the state lays out of plan. If
she wants to regain custody of her son, she has
to prove she's a respectible mother, and a big part
of that is getting clean. She's required to do random
(24:05):
drug tests, to participate in meetings with a social worker,
and to go to court regularly. She has also allotted
a weekly visit with Zev overseen by Colleen Huff, a
state assigned parent Aid.
Speaker 15 (24:19):
We work with at risk families whose children have been
removed and placed in alternative care. We're kind of the
eyes and the ears for the caseworkers because they never
see the children and their parents interact together.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Calling observed Libby as she interacted with Zev, usually at
Cindy's house.
Speaker 10 (24:41):
She hated it.
Speaker 16 (24:42):
At first, she hated Colleen. She's like, when I got
to meet that lady, she gets on my nerves. And
then she ended up loving calling yeah, because she you know,
you don't want to be made to do things that
you don't want to do, but she saw the good
in it.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Eventually, he took the state requirements seriously, abiding by the
many rules and random drug tests intended to keep her accountable,
and as far as both Cindy and Colleen saw, Libby
was committed to getting her son back as soon as
she could.
Speaker 15 (25:15):
Libby loved her son. You could tell that by their interaction.
You know, just close connected, lots of hugs, kisses, and
you know, just to fun times, laughing and you know,
just doing whatever he wanted to do. So she was
super sweet and seemed vulnerable, you know, like she needed
(25:38):
strong support. She was just somebody that I really wanted
to help.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
The truth is that Libby did need help. I want
to pause here for a second to consider the formidable
challenges that she was facing at this moment. Libby was
trying to quit methamphetamine, a drug that is notoriously difficult
to kick. She was navigating a long term abusive relationship that,
(26:05):
by her account, had grown more dangerous, and then she
lost custody of her son, the person who brought her
the most joy. This was undoubtedly a low point in
Libby's life. Even with help, she would have had a
long road ahead of her.
Speaker 6 (26:26):
So she talked about telling herself to day, Yes, sir.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Is it possible that Libby was suicidal, as Devin claimed
the night her body was found?
Speaker 15 (26:37):
Why just because of our situations with real boss, cousin
and our friend.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
There are a number of factors in Libby's life that
studies have linked with increased suicidal behavior, like drug abuse,
which impacts brain chemistry and can result in the loss
of self control, and experiencing domestic violence, which can be traumatic.
One report by the CDC found that in twenty five
(27:07):
percent of female suicides, intimate partner problems are a contributing factor.
And that rate is even higher among teens. Libby's young
age might also qualify as a risk factor, says Elizabeth McCulloch,
a youth mental health expert and suicide prevention advocate in Missouri.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
One of the things that we see frequently in young people,
whether we're talking about trauma or substance misuse or behavior disorders,
is they only know what they know today. They don't
have the ability to do a lot of forward thinking.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
They also have not had the opportunities to experience a
positive failure or so learning from their mistakes or learning
from their failures, or having a better understanding that things
can improve, things are going to get better.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
This is just a moment. It's not the rest of
my life. McCulloch says, when it comes to suicideal factors,
it's never any one thing.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
It's a layering on a loss of identity, a feeling
of disconnection, of feeling that you may be burdened on
other people, that your behaviors or your activities are pulling
other people down. You're responsible for that, losing a sense
of purpose in life. There's no purpose for me to
keep continuing forward. Things are never going to change. I'm stuck.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
And then also that thought of is just hopeless.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
It's hopeless, there's no hope. So that really critical lethal
intersection is between hopelessness, burdensomeness, and a sense of having
no purpose.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
When I described all that Livy was facing at this
point in her life, McCulloch recognized another risk factor.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
Anytime there's a loss, and what you just described were
multiple losses. Right she awes her child, she's feeling like
she's lost herself. She's not able to control her substance use,
so she gets lost in that loss is a common
thread that we see, whether it's perceived or real. When
you peel away the substance use, you peel away the
(29:08):
abusive relationship, and you've really got some raw emotions that
are sitting there that are difficult to explain and talk
through if you don't feel that you can trust the
people around you to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
We know that Libby tried to hide a lot of
things about her life that she was capable of putting
on a happy face.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
On the outside. People could have seen her life and said,
she's maybe a little messed up, but she's got some
good things going on, and she's looking towards the future.
She's got some pleas and she's trying to pull it
together to get her son back without really recognizing the
energy and the distress that she's going through to try
to keep herself moving forward.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Of course, McCulloch never worked directly with Libby, and these
risk factors she's pointing out, they don't automatically mean Libby
with suicidal. They just mean she was at risk. And
the thing is, Libby did have experts in her life
around the time of her death, experts who were observing
her mental health and who didn't notice any overt signs
(30:10):
of suicidal behavior. One of them was her parent, aid Colleen,
do you believe that she was suicidal had she ever
made any suicide?
Speaker 8 (30:21):
I just I.
Speaker 15 (30:25):
Can't perceive her doing that, just because she loved her
son so much that I just don't believe she would
be capable of doing that knowing that she would never
get to see her son again and then her son
would grow up without a mom.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
So I don't believe so. If anything, Colleen saw Libby's
fight to get her son back as a catalyst that
propelled her into action. Despite the challenges of state intervention,
Libby was eager to do everything she could to prove
herself a capable parent.
Speaker 15 (30:59):
We had several I was working with her to get
these services set up for her son, also ged classes
and completion of those classes, and then we had started
applying for public housing.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Colin wasn't the only professional observing and monitoring Libby during
this time. I also talked to a social worker involved
in Libby's case who agreed to be interviewed anonymously. I
asked her directly if she saw any signs of suicidal
behavior in Libby. She said no. I've spent a lot
(31:36):
of time asking Libby's friends and family about how she
seemed in the few months before her death. And to
be very clear, there's no one way a person acts
when they're suicidal. They might make plans for the future,
or not appear in good spirits, or not confide in
others or not, And so I don't want to put
(31:59):
too much stock in these impressions. But by and large
they echoed the points made by Colleen, that Libby was
being challenged and pushed, but that she was embracing it,
determined to come out stronger with her son.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
She started jumping through all the hoops. She was like,
I am I know what I need to do now,
you know.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
She acts like she was just ready to move on.
Speaker 13 (32:33):
Like the last messages that I have with her, that
she had sent me with her asking if she could
possibly come and move in with me and her come
work with me where I was working acause I was
making a lot of money.
Speaker 7 (32:42):
All she wanted to do was clean up and get
away from him, stay clean, keep her rights with her son.
I watched her progress and try to get better there
at the end for really, and I thought she was
on a good road to it personally.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
On the next episode of What Happened to Libby Caswell,
we zero in on the last week of Libby's life.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I was like, why don't you just come home? We
could tell him you're not here. She just kept saying, like, no,
I can't do that. You don't understand what would happen
if I stay here? He would know I'm here and
it's not safe for you, and it's not.
Speaker 13 (33:18):
Safe for Zave.
Speaker 6 (33:20):
Let me dem Nathan, I don't. I don't think I
feel safe with Devin anymore.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Like I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Some seamed off right now. What Happened To Libby Caswell
is written, reported, and hosted by me Melissa Jelson, with
writing and story editing by Marisa Brown and Lauren Hanson.
Episodes are edited by Jeremy Thal and Carl Catle. Our
(33:51):
executive producer is Ryan Murdoch. For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers
are Jason English and Katrina Norvell. Our supervising producer Carl Catele.
Fact checking by Maya Shukree. Archival material courtesy of KSHB
forty one News. Our theme song is written by Aaron
(34:11):
Kaufman and performed by Aaron Kaufman and Elizabeth Woolf. Original
music by Aaron Kaufman with additional music by Jeremy Thal.
Our episodes are mixed and mastered by Carl Catele. To
find out more about my investigation or to send a tip,
please email me at what Happened to libbyat gmail dot com.
(34:33):
Thanks so much for listening
Originals.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is an iHeart original. This story might be hard
to hear. There's detailed talk of suicide and violence, but
we think it's important not to gloss over the reality
of what happened to Libby Caswell. Please take care while listening.
(00:25):
I've read a few autopsy reports over the years, and
it's always a peculiar, disconcerting experience. They're written in dispassionate
clinical language and yet are oddly intimate. For example, in
Libby's nine page report, we learned that her right lung
weighed ten grams more than her left. Her teeth were
(00:46):
in good repair and appeared healthy. Old acne scars were
visible on her forehead. Libby's autopsy was performed by doctor
Robert Pyitek of the Jackson County Medical Examiner's Office the
day after her body was discovered at the sports stadium
in She still had Devon's belt around her neck. Doctor
(01:08):
Pytak noted that Libby's neck was completely encircled with a
mark called a ligature furrow, apparently caused by the belt
pressing into her skin. He also documented a number of
other bruises and abrasions on Libby's throat, chest, back, and hands.
The opinion section of the report is short and concise.
(01:31):
Libby died of asphyxia a lack of oxygen, but doctor
Pytak could not determine if Libby had hanged herself or
was strangled by someone else, and so he left the
manner of death undetermined. There's one more page of the autopsy,
(01:53):
the results of Libby's post mortem toxicology report. Libby's blood
was tested for certain substances like cocaine, which was negative,
and alcohol, which was negligible. But one drug did show
up at the time of her death. Libby had a
high level of methamphetamine in her body.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
You know, she was found with a toxing amount of
math in her system, and so I struggled with that
when I got that report.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Meth didn't literally kill Libby, but as I discovered reporting
the story, it was a big part of her undoing
as a fun through wine.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Sod is She.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
From iHeart Podcasts. I'm Melissa Jelson, and this is what
happened to Libby Caswell.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
When I walked past, I saw him roll her to
the side and just punch your really hard in the thigh.
I was like, kind of like what I did?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
He just hit her, but just the rest a little bit.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Did something bad happened that thanks kind of out of control?
Speaker 5 (03:13):
No, sir, positive that promise.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
He would laugh and say that you're never going to
catch me. I am too smart for them, And yeah,
he'd just run off.
Speaker 6 (03:29):
You know, I couldn't be there could be a thousand.
Speaker 7 (03:31):
Maybe I should, but that didn't. What happened.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
A chapter four talk.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I knew you know a lot about marijuana growing up,
but I'd never heard about meth amphetamine because we didn't
know anything about that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Cindy Libby's mom isn't what I would call a partier.
She rarely drinks, doesn't smoke cigarettes, and would rather watch
TV than stay out late. She told me that recently
she began using legal marijuana edibles to help with the
dread and anxiety that surfaces when she tries to sleep
at night. But although Cindy didn't have any personal experience
(04:37):
with meth a highly addictive drug that can be made
with household chemicals. The town she raised her family and
did in the nineteen nineties, Around the same time Cindy
started having kids, Missouri and Independence in particular became a
hotbed of meth production. In nineteen ninety six, alone, authorities
(04:57):
busted seventy five meth labs in Dependence, the largest number
per capita in the nation. This prompted the Christian Science
Monitor to dub it the quote meth capital of the
United States. Rolling Stone later ran a feature story on
Independence called Postcards from Tweakville that solidified its reputation as
(05:19):
a meth haven. Fox News ran a national story that
shined the spotlight on meth and the Independence Police Department.
How bad is the myth problem an Independence, Missouri?
Speaker 7 (05:32):
And it's bad.
Speaker 8 (05:34):
We've got a major epidemic.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
For the next decade or so, meth continued to dominate
local headlines and shape the workings of the police.
Speaker 9 (05:42):
Every night, Independence police make at least three arrests related
to methews.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
They wont ipd solicited help from the community, and positioned
itself as the best solution to the problem.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
To stop the.
Speaker 9 (05:54):
Cycle, Independence police are asking residents and business owners to
call police about suspicious drug activity.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
And while the labs were mostly busted by the time
Libby and Devon were in high school, the town was
still sometimes disparagingly referred to as meth dependents, and the
drug it was still pretty easy to find. I don't
know for sure what year Libby first tried meth, but
by her friend's accounts, it took place in high school
(06:21):
sometime after Zave was born, and it was her boyfriend
Devin who introduced her to the drug.
Speaker 10 (06:27):
He had started dabbling and drug like harder drugs than
what any seventeen year old s could be doing.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Holly, Libby's high school friend.
Speaker 8 (06:38):
It wasn't just the.
Speaker 10 (06:38):
Weed that he was, you know, smoking, and I think
that's whenever he had actually started doing meth, and then
he got Libby on it. She said that, you know,
he kind of peer pressured her into trying it because
they were in front of you know, a bunch of
head spreads.
Speaker 6 (06:54):
I mean, I didn't think she knew about alcohol by
the time she met him, and then she knew. She
met him, she knew every drug, every pill, every drink everything.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Nathan was childhood friends with Libby and later became friends
with Devin too. He told me they would all sometimes
get high on meth together.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
For Libby, I think it just made her more sociable.
I think that we both always agreed that we liked
the rush of it. Russia gave us. That's what I like,
not that, And I like the fact that like whenever
I did it, you know, I you know, could go
in public, I could, I could basically accomplish anythings what
it made me feel like.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
As Nathan saw it, Libby used meth to boost her
confidence and maybe also to fit into Devon's social circle.
This new part of her life. She kept it secret
from her family and even many of her close friends.
Here's Holly again.
Speaker 10 (07:46):
She didn't tell me about the first time.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
I mean, she just kind of goes to me for
a while.
Speaker 10 (07:51):
I knew she was doing something, but she just wouldn't
admit it to me at first. And she just finally
broke down one day and she's like, I don't know
what to do anymore.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
And here's where I believe Libby's life split in two,
the bright social side that she presented to her friends
and family and the darker, drug consumed side that she
kept hidden. But with a drug like meth, it's not
so easy to conceal its effects from those who really
know you, and her family soon began to suspect something
(08:23):
was going on. Here's Natalie, her younger sister.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Her whole face would just completely change and she would
be like just not herself. She was always like this
really bubbly, happy, talkative person, and then when we would
go see her, she was just like depressed and angry
and irritable, and so it was like a completely different person.
(08:50):
And that's how we started to recognize when she was
on and off.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Cindy started to notice something was wrong when Libby, already
lean rapidly lost a lot of wait.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I said, Libby, I'm so worried about you. You look
like a skeleton. You know, are you eating? What's happening?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
And what was it like for you to see your
daughter in that situation?
Speaker 10 (09:11):
It was bad.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
It was just devastating. I would leave here and cry.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Libby and Devon would use together on and off again
from around the age of seventeen until Libby's death at
twenty one. Their drug use pushed their relationship even more
into the shadows, away from others. Probing eyes and Libby's
friends tell me, the more Devin used drugs, the more
(09:41):
violent he became.
Speaker 8 (09:43):
She told me that when they would get in fights
and it would be really bad. He would push her,
hold her down and choke her, and.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
He would do it in front of their kids.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
When he was on drugs, he was really cool. That's
how we quit. But then you know, he was doing
drugs and he was one of those people that stayed
up for like a week, and when you do that,
you get crazy, you know. So he was always paranoid.
He's always angry, violent. He really went off the rails
that met. Like some people go off the rails, some
people don't.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
There's a lot of alarmist rhetoric around meth users that
they're unhinged, psychotic, and deeply dangerous. Take this Fox News
clip from the nineties and where meth goes death violence.
I'm talking about a drug.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
That induces violent behavior, that creates violence in people who
never have been violent, wouldn't think of being violent.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
This is still a common stereotype about people who use
meth and other drugs too, that they are more likely
to be violent, and specifically violent towards the people closest
to them.
Speaker 11 (10:55):
Not everyone who abuses substance is a domestic balance offender.
I think the important thing to remembers it doesn't cause
the abuse, but it definitely complicates abuse.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Mariann Metheni is the CEO of the Hope House, a
domestic violence agency that covers the Kansas City area, including Independence.
She has seen firsthand the complicated, interconnected relationship between drugs
and domestic violence, how drugs can hypercharge abuse that.
Speaker 11 (11:24):
Can take a situation into a more violent level much
more quickly when someone is intoxicated.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
And how drug use can isolate victims even further.
Speaker 11 (11:35):
I think where it gets difficult and it's really hard
for people to understand is that it is an unpallenge
for the victim and to also be someone who uses substances.
It can be a way to deal with what's going
on and trying to escape for just a little while,
like my world is falling apart, it's easier for me
to use. The other piece is that it's often used
(11:58):
as a control mechanism by the abuser as well. But
it's not uncommon for an abuser to force someone to
use at the same time that they're using, and then
becoming addicted becomes just part of that whole relationship.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Mathemei has observed how abusers often blame drugs and alcohol
for their own bad behavior. I'm not abusive, I was
just high. Victims may desperately want to believe this narrative too.
Speaker 11 (12:25):
Because it's easier in your mind to rationalize this atrocity
of behaviors that's happening to you, because otherwise you have
to look at this person and say, but you really
don't care about me if you're going to abuse me,
Because the reality is a person would have been doing
those things to you even if they were sober, because
we know that substances don't cause it.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I don't want to give the impression that drug used
defined Libby's life. She quit using on a number of
occasions and had long prosperous spells where she was clean
and sober. These periods, they tended to coincide with times
when she broke.
Speaker 12 (13:04):
Up with Devon, and that's whenever Libby was really her
best is when Devin wasn't around. She could see her
full potential, but.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Inevitably he would re enter the picture. Libby's friends Autumna
Mariah explained to me what that cycle looks like.
Speaker 12 (13:20):
Libby was almost like a dog on a leash, like
she could only get so far from Devon before here
comes Devon or here comes Devin's call.
Speaker 8 (13:28):
He would come back when he was sober.
Speaker 12 (13:30):
He would convince everybody. He's gonna do the right thing,
you know, and treat her right, and treat Zab right.
Speaker 8 (13:34):
He would love bomb her and give her everything, tell
her whatever she wanted, and all she wanted was to
be a family with the father of her child, and
he would promise her that.
Speaker 12 (13:48):
That's pretty much how Libby always got looped back into
the cycle, as how he claimed he'd be a good
dad this time around. You know, Zab needs a dad.
Blah blah blah blah blah, the whole good dad game.
Speaker 8 (13:59):
Sometimes they would be good for months. He wouldn't hurt her,
they wouldn't use drugs, they would be clean and happy
and healthy. And then the newness and him trying starts.
Speaker 13 (14:14):
To wear off, and he would get mean again, and
then he would go out and use drugs, and then
she would end up using as well, because I mean,
her partner's out there doing everything and being abusive to her.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And how many times you estimate that this happened while
you knew her.
Speaker 8 (14:34):
In the couple of years, probably like three or four.
Speaker 6 (14:40):
I know she always felt like when.
Speaker 8 (14:42):
She had nothing less like that's what she had was
him and drugs, and she would just keep keep going
back until she got her feet under her again, and
she'd kick him and kick the drugs and be happy
and healthy and sober by herself.
Speaker 14 (15:07):
Here, Menny, Happy birthday to you, Happy birthday to you,
Happy birthday year.
Speaker 12 (15:19):
Save.
Speaker 15 (15:21):
Half birthday to you.
Speaker 14 (15:24):
Flow your candles, load a candle fire.
Speaker 13 (15:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Do you want a piece of the Batman cake.
Speaker 14 (15:38):
Cake?
Speaker 9 (15:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 14 (15:40):
Okay, okay, I'm gonna give you some hand on.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
It's the beginning of May twenty seventeen. Zave is turning four.
Libby bake's in a chocolate cake decorated with a blue
and gold Batman symbol. It looks professional Cindy would be proud.
In the video, Libby appears happy and carefree, a mom
trying to make her son's birthday special, but really she's
(16:06):
putting on a brave face. Just a few days earlier,
she and Devin broke up once again, and this time
when he left, he took the car she used to
get to work and drained their joint bank account, leaving
her stranded and broke right before reent was due. Libby
was sad and understandably furious, but stealing with something Devin
(16:28):
was known to do when he was using he stole
from strangers, friends, and now the woman he claimed to love.
A few weeks later, Devin's reckless behavior caught up to him.
He was arrested and charged with burglarizing someone's apartment. He
ended up spending most of the summer behind bars. It
was a long time to be away from Libby. By
(16:50):
my estimate, this was the longest separation that had in years,
and for Libby this was a complicated period. She was
grieving the law loss of the life. She was trying
to build a family with Devon and Zave, but Devn's
incarceration allowed her enough space, both mental and physical, to
(17:11):
start reimagining her future.
Speaker 16 (17:14):
She was always out going, you know, and happy that
she also was a little stressed because she was trying
to do everything on her own.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
With Devon out of the picture, Libby began to re
establish relationships with people should cut off, especially her mom Cindy.
Speaker 16 (17:34):
We would make dinners and we had one of those
speakers that hipped up to the bluetooth and we'd take
her and spicking out songs.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
You know, and playing music. That summer, Libby kept herself
busy between visits with family, looking after Zaev, and a
new job at the mall food court, where she got
to work beside her friend Mariah.
Speaker 7 (17:56):
Oh was there recording yep.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
This is a clip of them walking from the park
working a lot to the mall entrance, already dressed in
their uniforms for the day. The person making that whoo
sound that's Libby in this video. She's laughing, mugging for
the camera, a pretty normal twenty one year old on
her way to a summer job. She worked right next
(18:19):
door to me.
Speaker 17 (18:19):
We would take our breaks in the hallway together.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
We would talk all day during work.
Speaker 17 (18:23):
I mean, our managers hated that we worked right next
to each other. We were constantly talking, constantly causing chaos together.
We would hang out outside of work almost every day,
if not every weekend.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Mariah's strongest memory of Libby this summer. The last summer
of Libby's life, was the day she showed up at
the mall to return the engagement ring Devin had given
her that past Christmas.
Speaker 17 (18:49):
I'll never forget. She called me in a super good mood,
saying that she's on the way up to the mall,
but it was her day off and she wanted me
to come out and walk inside with her. She was
just being She came up to the mall to a
exchange and get her money back for the ring that
Devin had bought her, and she said she.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Was going to be moving on. She told me like
she was done, done going back and forth.
Speaker 17 (19:08):
She's finally going to do what she needed to do
for her and she was finally turning a page.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Many people do successfully get out of abusive relationships. I've
met a lot of them, heard their stories. Rarely does
it happen on the first try, or even the second
or the third. In my opinion, the cycle that Libby
went through clean and single, using and back with Devon,
that was her process of trying to leave. Because leaving
(19:40):
is a process. It takes time and resources and support
and a hell of a lot of courage. And that
summer of twenty seventeen seemed like a turning point for Libby.
She was building a new foundation for her life. But
it wouldn't it turned out be enough.
Speaker 17 (20:03):
As soon as Devin came back into the picture. She
lost her car, her apartment, her job, everything, you know.
The only thing she was still hanging on to was
her sobriety.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Devin is released from jail in mid July. Almost immediately,
he tries to get back into Libby's life, calling and
coming by her apartment. Libby resists, stays vigilant. She never
knew when Devin was watching.
Speaker 17 (20:29):
I can't tell you a single time at night that
she'd ever have her blinds up, and she always was
looking over her shoulder always.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
When Devin fails to get Libby's attention, he posts on
Facebook about how she was stopping him from being the
good dad he yearned to be. Quote, Daddy has a
big boy and it's killing him not to be able
to see him. Libby, please just be grown about all this. Please,
It's not his fault that we can't seem to stay
in cahoots with one another. To all the mothers out there,
(21:00):
let your child be in the father's life. His next
post turns angry. I'm about to snap like a slim gem.
Can't believe the choices that she's making. WTF she won't
answer my calls. I don't know how Libby responded to
Devin's aggressive please, because she didn't share any of this
(21:22):
with her family. Here's Cindy.
Speaker 16 (21:28):
She didn't tell me a lot of stuff because she
knew I would be mad if she was talking to
I think she was ashamed of it, you know, like
after everything he had done to her.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
The close bonds that Cindy and Libby rebuilt that summer
disappears pretty quickly.
Speaker 16 (21:44):
I started not being able to really talk to her,
Like I noticed less contact with me, only like about Xavier.
And when we had to have contact, I was calling
her and texting her where are you?
Speaker 6 (22:02):
You know.
Speaker 5 (22:05):
I need to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Cindy had been here before. She knew what it meant
when Libby went silent. It meant Devon was back in
Libby's life, and probably meth was too. Cindy knew Libby
was back with Devon and using, and she felt powerless,
(22:30):
unable to help this situation. It might sound familiar if
you have a family member who struggles with substance abuse.
It can be impossible to know the right thing to do,
how to support your loved one without feeling like you're
enabling their drug use or punishing them when they're already
so low and practically there's very few options and not
(22:53):
a lot of resources for families going through this. Cindy's
overriding concern is her daughter's safety and the safety of
her grandson, Xavier. She's worried that he might be being
left unsupervised, and so she takes a quote tough love approach.
On September seventh, twenty seventeen, she calls Missouri's child welfare
(23:16):
hotline to report that she believes Xavier is living in
a home where drugs are being used.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
I felt horrible at first.
Speaker 16 (23:25):
I was just really down about that. But I was
also conflicted because I thought, this is exactly what needs
to happen. She needs to have this accountability and make
it serious, like you're gonna lose your child over this guy.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
The repercussions are swift and severe. Almost immediately, Xavier is
placed into temporary custody with Cindy. Libya is assigned a
case manager, and the state lays out of plan. If
she wants to regain custody of her son, she has
to prove she's a respectible mother, and a big part
of that is getting clean. She's required to do random
(24:05):
drug tests, to participate in meetings with a social worker,
and to go to court regularly. She has also allotted
a weekly visit with Zev overseen by Colleen Huff, a
state assigned parent Aid.
Speaker 15 (24:19):
We work with at risk families whose children have been
removed and placed in alternative care. We're kind of the
eyes and the ears for the caseworkers because they never
see the children and their parents interact together.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Calling observed Libby as she interacted with Zev, usually at
Cindy's house.
Speaker 10 (24:41):
She hated it.
Speaker 16 (24:42):
At first, she hated Colleen. She's like, when I got
to meet that lady, she gets on my nerves. And
then she ended up loving calling yeah, because she you know,
you don't want to be made to do things that
you don't want to do, but she saw the good
in it.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Eventually, he took the state requirements seriously, abiding by the
many rules and random drug tests intended to keep her accountable,
and as far as both Cindy and Colleen saw, Libby
was committed to getting her son back as soon as
she could.
Speaker 15 (25:15):
Libby loved her son. You could tell that by their interaction.
You know, just close connected, lots of hugs, kisses, and
you know, just to fun times, laughing and you know,
just doing whatever he wanted to do. So she was
super sweet and seemed vulnerable, you know, like she needed
(25:38):
strong support. She was just somebody that I really wanted
to help.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
The truth is that Libby did need help. I want
to pause here for a second to consider the formidable
challenges that she was facing at this moment. Libby was
trying to quit methamphetamine, a drug that is notoriously difficult
to kick. She was navigating a long term abusive relationship that,
(26:05):
by her account, had grown more dangerous, and then she
lost custody of her son, the person who brought her
the most joy. This was undoubtedly a low point in
Libby's life. Even with help, she would have had a
long road ahead of her.
Speaker 6 (26:26):
So she talked about telling herself to day, Yes, sir.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Is it possible that Libby was suicidal, as Devin claimed
the night her body was found?
Speaker 15 (26:37):
Why just because of our situations with real boss, cousin
and our friend.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
There are a number of factors in Libby's life that
studies have linked with increased suicidal behavior, like drug abuse,
which impacts brain chemistry and can result in the loss
of self control, and experiencing domestic violence, which can be traumatic.
One report by the CDC found that in twenty five
(27:07):
percent of female suicides, intimate partner problems are a contributing factor.
And that rate is even higher among teens. Libby's young
age might also qualify as a risk factor, says Elizabeth McCulloch,
a youth mental health expert and suicide prevention advocate in Missouri.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
One of the things that we see frequently in young people,
whether we're talking about trauma or substance misuse or behavior disorders,
is they only know what they know today. They don't
have the ability to do a lot of forward thinking.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
They also have not had the opportunities to experience a
positive failure or so learning from their mistakes or learning
from their failures, or having a better understanding that things
can improve, things are going to get better.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
This is just a moment. It's not the rest of
my life. McCulloch says, when it comes to suicideal factors,
it's never any one thing.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
It's a layering on a loss of identity, a feeling
of disconnection, of feeling that you may be burdened on
other people, that your behaviors or your activities are pulling
other people down. You're responsible for that, losing a sense
of purpose in life. There's no purpose for me to
keep continuing forward. Things are never going to change. I'm stuck.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
And then also that thought of is just hopeless.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
It's hopeless, there's no hope. So that really critical lethal
intersection is between hopelessness, burdensomeness, and a sense of having
no purpose.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
When I described all that Livy was facing at this
point in her life, McCulloch recognized another risk factor.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
Anytime there's a loss, and what you just described were
multiple losses. Right she awes her child, she's feeling like
she's lost herself. She's not able to control her substance use,
so she gets lost in that loss is a common
thread that we see, whether it's perceived or real. When
you peel away the substance use, you peel away the
(29:08):
abusive relationship, and you've really got some raw emotions that
are sitting there that are difficult to explain and talk
through if you don't feel that you can trust the
people around you to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
We know that Libby tried to hide a lot of
things about her life that she was capable of putting
on a happy face.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
On the outside. People could have seen her life and said,
she's maybe a little messed up, but she's got some
good things going on, and she's looking towards the future.
She's got some pleas and she's trying to pull it
together to get her son back without really recognizing the
energy and the distress that she's going through to try
to keep herself moving forward.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Of course, McCulloch never worked directly with Libby, and these
risk factors she's pointing out, they don't automatically mean Libby
with suicidal. They just mean she was at risk. And
the thing is, Libby did have experts in her life
around the time of her death, experts who were observing
her mental health and who didn't notice any overt signs
(30:10):
of suicidal behavior. One of them was her parent, aid Colleen,
do you believe that she was suicidal had she ever
made any suicide?
Speaker 8 (30:21):
I just I.
Speaker 15 (30:25):
Can't perceive her doing that, just because she loved her
son so much that I just don't believe she would
be capable of doing that knowing that she would never
get to see her son again and then her son
would grow up without a mom.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
So I don't believe so. If anything, Colleen saw Libby's
fight to get her son back as a catalyst that
propelled her into action. Despite the challenges of state intervention,
Libby was eager to do everything she could to prove
herself a capable parent.
Speaker 15 (30:59):
We had several I was working with her to get
these services set up for her son, also ged classes
and completion of those classes, and then we had started
applying for public housing.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Colin wasn't the only professional observing and monitoring Libby during
this time. I also talked to a social worker involved
in Libby's case who agreed to be interviewed anonymously. I
asked her directly if she saw any signs of suicidal
behavior in Libby. She said no. I've spent a lot
(31:36):
of time asking Libby's friends and family about how she
seemed in the few months before her death. And to
be very clear, there's no one way a person acts
when they're suicidal. They might make plans for the future,
or not appear in good spirits, or not confide in
others or not, And so I don't want to put
(31:59):
too much stock in these impressions. But by and large
they echoed the points made by Colleen, that Libby was
being challenged and pushed, but that she was embracing it,
determined to come out stronger with her son.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
She started jumping through all the hoops. She was like,
I am I know what I need to do now,
you know.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
She acts like she was just ready to move on.
Speaker 13 (32:33):
Like the last messages that I have with her, that
she had sent me with her asking if she could
possibly come and move in with me and her come
work with me where I was working acause I was
making a lot of money.
Speaker 7 (32:42):
All she wanted to do was clean up and get
away from him, stay clean, keep her rights with her son.
I watched her progress and try to get better there
at the end for really, and I thought she was
on a good road to it personally.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
On the next episode of What Happened to Libby Caswell,
we zero in on the last week of Libby's life.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I was like, why don't you just come home? We
could tell him you're not here. She just kept saying, like, no,
I can't do that. You don't understand what would happen
if I stay here? He would know I'm here and
it's not safe for you, and it's not.
Speaker 13 (33:18):
Safe for Zave.
Speaker 6 (33:20):
Let me dem Nathan, I don't. I don't think I
feel safe with Devin anymore.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Like I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Some seamed off right now. What Happened To Libby Caswell
is written, reported, and hosted by me Melissa Jelson, with
writing and story editing by Marisa Brown and Lauren Hanson.
Episodes are edited by Jeremy Thal and Carl Catle. Our
(33:51):
executive producer is Ryan Murdoch. For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers
are Jason English and Katrina Norvell. Our supervising producer Carl Catele.
Fact checking by Maya Shukree. Archival material courtesy of KSHB
forty one News. Our theme song is written by Aaron
(34:11):
Kaufman and performed by Aaron Kaufman and Elizabeth Woolf. Original
music by Aaron Kaufman with additional music by Jeremy Thal.
Our episodes are mixed and mastered by Carl Catele. To
find out more about my investigation or to send a tip,
please email me at what Happened to libbyat gmail dot com.
(34:33):
Thanks so much for listening
Host
Melissa Jeltsen
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