December 18, 2024 • 48 mins
Raising a kid would be so much easier with an instruction manual, but let’s face it, that’s just not the case! Zoe welcomes child psychologist, Dr. Aliza Pressman, to discuss parental guilt and handling consequences for certain behavior.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to What in the Winkler and iHeartRadio podcast.
Welcome back to another episode of What in the Winkler.
I am so excited because today we have a really
special guest and she's not a family member, so this
is like a real legit guest. Doctor Eliza Pressman is
a developmental psychologist with nearly two decades of experience working
(00:26):
with families and the healthcare providers who care for them.
She's the author of the New York Times best selling
book The Five Principles of Parenting, Your Essential Guide to
Raising Good Humans, and the host of the award winning
podcast Raising Good Humans. And most importantly, she is a really, really,
really dear friend of mine. And I'm so excited You're
hair welcome. Thank you. I'm so happy you're here. Thank
(00:48):
you for doing this. You're like my first official guest. Actually, no,
that's not true. I had Kim and you, I mean.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Kim Kardashian. That's fine, but your numbers are going to
go crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
So Alisa and I actually met before I even had kids.
Alisa used to run an incredible parenting group in New
York called the Seedlings Group, and I wanted to work
for her until she told me that I had to
have my masters to do so, and then I decided, no,
we'll just be friends. I did not want to go
(01:24):
back to school, and so we met in New York.
I mean fourteen years ago. Can you believe it?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
No, I think it was fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
It was fifteen years ago. I didn't even have kids yet,
so you're right, fifteen years ago. And she's obviously gone
on to write this incredible bestselling New York Times bestseller book,
which I hosted one of the LA launch.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Parties, the first launch I sure did.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
And you're here today.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
To yeah, why am I here?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Okay, So you're here today because I think parenting is
the most incredible opportunity that we get to do, and
it's also the hardest thing I've ever done in my
entire life, even if you just want to do it
like kind of okay, it's really hard. And you've helped
(02:16):
me throughout the years with my kids, and I thought
we could just talk a little bit about parenting and
your expertise in all subjects and answer all my questions
and have my own personal therapy session.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I'm so excited. Also, just I want to say that
I know that it's off putting and annoying to be
like an expert in this when we are the experts
for our kids and for ourselves. So I'm technically an
expert in that I have a degree in this area
and I work in this area, but I don't want
(02:51):
to I think one of the things that we have
to know as an expert is that we don't know
nearly as much as we think we do. And I
don't want to say that and then make you feel
like what I what I would share with you is
something you shouldn't trust so much as just know that
it's just going to be different. And we've had this
experience where I'll say something and you're like, no.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yes, that is true. I come from a very emotional
background and you come from a very clinical background.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I think that's probably so often times you'll I remember
when my Ace was obsessed with his pacifier and you
were very you know, clear on me taking it away,
and I think I just said like, no, thanks, no thanks.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
By the way, I believe in passifiers for the first year.
I mean I think he was.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Going on for Yeah, I think it was time for
the passifiers to go away. But I think one of
the most incredible things about you is that you never
make anybody that's speaking to you feel a embarrassed or
bad about the choices that they may have made. And
you also make it feel very approachable, so you really
(04:04):
take into account who it is that you're speaking to,
and then you go off of that. You know, like,
there's so many books where it's like do it this way, yeah,
and it's not going to work if it's not in
line with who you are as a human or a parent.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Right, yes, I mean, if I want to know who
you are, I don't want to tell you who to be.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Right which is I mean, I think that's the difference
between you and other parenting. That's why I was so
anxious to have you on because I think a lot
of times we don't ask the questions because we feel like, oh,
we should know the answers. Yeah, or I'm going to
feel stupid if I ask this question, and I'm going
(04:45):
to feel like a bad parent, because so much of
the time amazing parents there's no perfect parent, but parents
feel I don't know. Today, for instance, I missed pajama
Day at school, and I felt like.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I'm only laughing because I've definitely done.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
That, right, But it was for Gus, who would love,
definitely love the pajama day care the most. And I
felt like I was so embarrassed, and I was in school,
like watching all the kids come in their pajamas, and
I just thought to myself, holy shit, my morning is
about to suck, right. And he was actually fine with it, ah,
(05:19):
which is shocking because I think I dropped him off.
I didn't like walk him in, So I think it
because I wasn't there, he was okay.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
He couldn't give you a reaction. Well, that's really adaptable.
That's kind of a wins.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
It's it's it's really like kind of a big move
forward for him because we get stuck a lot of
the times. What initially drew you to focus on parenting
and child development? What do you think?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Before I answer that question, may I also just say,
ye that the fact that you made that mistake, I
think gave him permission to make mistakes. So I think
it was a win all around, except for the embarrassment
of like being lightly disorganized in a moment, right, which.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
We all I mean.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
And also, why are they doing pajama day this month?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Oh? Because at this school every single Wednesday is a
theme for first grade. So that's really hard to keep
up with all the themes and I'm barely making it
through the week. So I just I was also I
give tours at the school, at the elementary school, and
I found out about the pajama Day as the tour
(06:26):
was beginning, so I was like, oh, okay, this is great,
this is yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Okay, sorry to interrupt, but I just felt like that
we do need to do that more often. And it's
easier for me to say to you than to believe myself.
But I think those are moments where we're giving our
kids permission to make mistakes, and you want.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Them to know that if they make a mistake, the
sky doesn't fall.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
The sky doesn't fall.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Right, So tell me about why you went into parenting
and child development.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I mean, I think probably nobody into any field related
to psychology that doesn't have some curiosity about like how
in the world they came to be who they are
and the people around them came to be who they are.
(07:15):
I think I had a colorful family, and like, on
the deepest level, my grandfather's a Holocaust driver, so it
was my grandmother. She's just no longer alive, but that
was such a huge part of my childhood, was hearing
about the Holocaust at every conversation with our family, and
(07:38):
I was mesmerized at how you could come out of
that kind of trauma and raise three kids and then
grandkids and now great grandkids, and how that impacts their
growth and development. And so I think from just observationally,
I thought it was fascinating. And then I think probably
just being the you know, like a kid, a child
(07:58):
of divorce and things happening in life, I just was like,
how does this work?
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And how did you end up being a co founder
and director of the Mount Seini Parenting Center, And can
you tell us a little bit about like what that is?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So I was I guess I started. I was interested
in this field before I had kids, and I just
knew that I wanted to work for kids. I don't
know if I wanted to work with kids once I
had kids, but I knew that I wanted to work
(08:37):
for serving kids and families. And then I was working
with more affluent families in my private practice, and I
was teaching at the hospital. I was teaching residents their
behavior and development rotation it's called and somehow like I
(08:58):
had the opportunity from that more affluent families that I
worked with, they wanted to figure out, like how could
they give back and could it help the families in
that the hospital serves. And now we work across the country,
but to have access to parenting and child development and
(09:21):
all the things that can support mothers and parents in general.
So we decided to open a parenting center there. And
then because I was teaching residents, I also learned that
pediatricians don't really have much training in most of the
things that we asked them about, because when you go
to the pediatrician's office, they're pretty routine and like they
know how to give vaccines and deal with us, you know,
(09:44):
an illness, but most of the questions they get asked
about are parenting questions, especially in those first five years.
And so what I was working very closely with a
pediatrician who I co founded the parenting center with, and
she was like, this is information that pediatricians want and
need because they're oftentimes either winging it going by their
(10:04):
own experience or asking their mentor, And wouldn't it be
nice if there was a more streamlined approach to understanding
behavior and development and creating a curriculum. So that was
the first thing we did, was to create a curriculum
for residents that would integrate parenting into their already existing visits.
(10:26):
And so everything that we do is related to making
sure that if you are going into a hospital or
clinic setting, which is where ninety nine percent of babies
are born, I think maybe it's ninety seven, that there's
support for you as the provider.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
It's so interesting because when I was a teacher for
ten years, and then I was a therapeutic companion, a
one to one shadow for four years, so I had
a lot of experience with kids and young kids too.
But when I became a parent, everybody prepares you for
the pregnancy and for the birth, but nobody talks about
when you go home and you're alone with that baby.
(11:14):
And even if you have all the experience in the world,
it's you forget everything and it goes out the window
because now it's your, your baby, and so all the
emotion and all of the you're it's so it's all intertwined.
Whereas when you're giving advice about someone else's child, the
emotional like poll isn't there as much. So I think
(11:35):
that that's so amazing that families across the country have
that opportunity because everyone prepares you for the birth. But
that to me was I mean, it wasn't easy, but
I definitely got an epidural, but that quick. It's quick,
and it's like most of the times you're surrounded by doctors,
so it's like, you know, but then you go home
and you're alone.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I know, there's no you. You really just have like
two of it. That was the other thing as we noticed, like, Okay,
at the hospital, you have to watch a video on
putting your kid in a car seat and shaking baby syndrome,
and that's it. And we were like, what about videos
that can help you actually get through these next few
months for sleeping and feeding and connecting and touch and
all of the things that could be so helpful, including
(12:19):
things that can minimize chances of postpartum depression. And it
all happens in these settings, but there aren't a lot
of resources for it. So that was really fun. And
also there's so much There are so many hospitals and
there are so many places across the country that don't
have like in where we started was New York City
(12:41):
and we're in LA Obviously those are places that have
a lot of resources and a lot of practitioners, but
most places in the country there's such a shortage. So
anything that you can do, I mean, we even made
well Child Visit videos to help families and also the
care providers, like what are the questions it might come up?
What are some things that you can find out about
(13:03):
that will save you the time and the visit, because
for the majority of the country, it's not like you
can just grab a psychologist on the way.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
And then also it's you know, it's funny because for me,
my my biggest challenge after having three kids was zero
to one. I was so anxious. The jump from one
to two was so much easier for me, not physically,
I mean, there's a lot more to do, and you're
you know, you survived. I survived the first one and
(13:33):
the anxiety I had with zero to one. I didn't
have postpartum depression, but I did have postpartum anxiety, which
you know, and it was so difficult.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
For me to.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Just let him sort of be and I was always
worried about something happening to him or to me or
to you know, and it consumed me. So then when
I knew he's going to eat, he going to sleep,
or he's never going to sleep, which is kind of
what happened, you know, at once I could accept that
and I knew sort of I had like a little
(14:07):
bit of a roadmap as to what it was going
to look like with two and three, even though they're
all different and they're different people, it was so much easier.
It gave me comfort.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, I mean, I think there everybody has like their
different time in parenthood that's most challenging, and I feel
like if you haven't had it, it's just that it
hasn't come yet. It's kind of like when people talk
about like, oh, two terrible twos or whatever, and you think, no,
my two year old was not remotely pushing the limits
or anything. But then really that's because it'll happen at three.
(14:38):
It's not we're not skipping any of these.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Steps, right, They all come when they come. What do
you think, after like working with all these families, what
have you noticed are the modern parenting challenges? Because I
think to myself all the time my parents, I'm sure
I thought it was really difficult raising us in our generation,
But then I think with social media and and just
as like all these things that are now at our kids' fingertips,
(15:05):
it seems like it's way more complicated now to raise kids,
even though I'm sure that our kids will feel.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
That it was so much easier right back.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
And so, what do you think are like the major
modern parenting challenges for right now?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I mean, I think this parenting stress, which the Surge
in general just wrote and advisory on, is a big
challenge because we're expected to do more and we don't
have more resources to do it. I think that's huge.
And I have a sneaking suspicion in the service of
(15:41):
wanting to be more emotionally available to our kids, we
are really afraid of their feelings and so we do
we like bend over backwards to try to make sure
that we fix any feelings that are really hard. And
that is just.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
We've talked about that exhaust to what I do well.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I mean, but it's very natural, because you'd be such
a beast if you didn't have you know, like, if
you're just like I don't care if you're miserable. It's hard.
It's your child. It's so hard. Although I have a
harder time I think with other people's kids seeing them
struggling than I do with my own kids, because at
least I'm like, I know ultimately they're loved and they're safe,
(16:22):
and this is a moment whereas somebody else's child, I
feel a little bit. You know, It's like when you're
taking care of somebody else's kid, you just get a
little bit more worried. But I think that is a
massive challenge, and it's because we feel parenting. Yeah, like
we got so we felt so rightfully, like we didn't
(16:44):
get enough maybe attention to feelings, and we just accidentally
went too far probably and the burden is now on
the parents today, right.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I Actually last night at dinner, one of my kids
was telling we do rose bud and thorn every night,
and we also do a seed like what we're excited
to learn. But his thorn was that his best friend
said to him, you talk too fast, and I don't
want to play with you anymore. And I could feel.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I can feel you.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
I was, I was unwell, and Rob was looking at
me across the table like scared the whole gust coming out. Yeah,
And you know, I when my kid tells me that
something has happened to them. I think I told I
told this Stir on your podcast. Actually, so, when Ace
was in preschool, there was a kid who was not
letting him play basketball and said that he couldn't play
(17:39):
because he didn't have the right shoes, I remember, And
so I went up to him and I said, do
you know what happens when you're unkind? And he said, yeah,
someone tells the teacher. And I said, oh my gosh, no,
it's like way worse than that. Nobody will have you
over for play dates because you're not kind. And then
I looked at Ace and I said, an Ace, Blake
(18:03):
Griffin is coming for dinner tonight. Mima. I don't know
Blake Griffin. He's a clipper. He was a clipper at
the time.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I mean, I only know because I know the story
of other world.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
So I don't know him. I don't he's never been
to my home. But I just like, I completely had
an out of body experience. I got into my car.
I called Rob and I just said, I just I
just got into it with a five year old, like
what is going to happen to me? And then I
really it laid that, like you know, I learned from that,
(18:30):
I really did. As something comes.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Over, you just get so protected.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
It's mentally ill and I'm in therapy. So what's wrong
with me? And what do I do? Can you help?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh? My god? I think I think that is a
medication question. I think this has nothing to do with
your parenting. You would do that probably in any situation.
I would be a friend, and that is part of
your charm. It's just that it's probably better with als
(19:01):
or with.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
No one at all. I need a puzzle when I'm out.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I think it's more like, don't try to take on everything.
But I would say for the underage set, it's just
it's not serving you or them or your kids. But
it is very funny.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
So what it makes for great it's got our story
on a podcast.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
And also your son just kind of like it's okay, mom.
You know that he's like, they're gonna grow up and
they're just gonna be like, please, don't piss off my mom.
I assure you, it's not a good idea.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
What so what in those moments when a child shares
because you want them to share things with you and
you don't want them to get to the point where
he's like I don't even want to tell you anything
because you're gonna freak out.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I think that's the most important point.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So what's the best response when that happens, when a
kid says, hey, you know this person was mean to
me today, or just share something I know? The number
one thing is you don't interview for pain, right, Yeah,
you don't.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
So well, that's like that. That is so like don't
start your you know, pick up with how did it
go today? With so and so? Okay, But the other
thing is, and it seems trite, and it is so
life changing, is it? Whenever? Just promise yourself. This is
all you have to do is promise yourself that when
(20:16):
you hear a story, you will take a breath during
and after that story before you react, just because it
tells your body that you are not in danger. You
do not need to go into fight mode. And that
way you can hear the story, receive a story, and
make it about how your kid feels instead of how
(20:39):
you feel.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Right, So that's what I was doing. Was actually incredibly selfish.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
No, it's not that it's selfish, it's just that it's natural.
We all feel. Please, if you don't think that there
have been times when I'm like, my entire goal this
year is to make sure. I mean, I won't even
say it, but I think it's very natural.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
So what is the response when I can kid, When
when your child tells you that something on upsetting happened
to them, what is the like, what is the response,
I'm really sorry that happened.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
No, I would take a breath, very committed to breathing, okay,
and then after you've taken a breath, refocus the spotlight
on your child and just say, so, how did it
feel like? Or you can say I'm so glad you
(21:28):
told me that. Like, I really like knowing these things.
I know I can't do anything about it, but is
there anything that.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I can I can't do something right because well last
night at dinner, I did say, well, you can't.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Fix his fee. I guess you couldn't fix the pain.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
No, I can't. And I did say to Gus. We
talked about it again when I was putting him to bed,
because that takes hours upon hours, and he was telling
me everything that he was feeling that night and last night,
and I said, you know, only spend time with friends
are supposed to make you feel good. So if a
friend is making you feel good, it's okay to take
a break. Is that okay?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Of course, okay, of course that's okay. I think the
key is.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Like it's totally okay. But here's what I would do now.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
First of all, again, I just want to say it's
easier for me because I'm not in the emotions of it,
Like I know what it's like.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
But you have two children and you're very appropriate.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
No, but there are definitely times when I'm like, you
don't want to peak in high school? You know, like
I say small, little obnoxious things about other people Like
that is definitely and maybe I would even go as
far as occasionally saying, like, you know, beyond you don't
want to peak in high school, I might even predict
(22:43):
what that person's future looks like, Like there are moments
when I'm not proud of myself. You want to think
that more often than not, you have a reaction that's
about them and not you, kind of getting aroused and angered.
But sometimes you're going to and I think that's just like, whatever,
(23:04):
give ourselves a break. It's really hard to watch somebody
be cruel to your child. That's just a hard thing
you did to teach.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Me that one of the most important things you can
do as a parent is to repair. Can you talk
a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
So when you make a mistake, which you will constantly,
thankfully we get to make you made a mistake today.
Repair is just reconnecting. So first you have to do
that with yourself. So like if you screw up and
you are mad at yourself, a really important practice is
to say, like, hold on a second, I I made
(23:38):
a mistake. The world still goes on, the the sun
is still shining, Like this is okay. I don't want
to do it again in this way. So here's what
I'm going to do next time. But I'm I'm also
modeling that I can make mistakes and that it's not
the end of the world, and that I can forgive myself.
So you have to be able to repair with yourself
(24:00):
in order to repair with your kids. And then when
you have like discord with your kids or a moment
where you just feel like I lost my pool or whatever,
then finding a moment to reconnect. It doesn't have to
be an apology, like sometimes it's not appropriate to apologize.
Sometimes it's more like it's a small thing, but you
just want to get back to giggling together or knowing
(24:22):
that you've got each other and that everything's okay between you.
And it can be silent, it can be like sitting
closer together and watching something funny. It doesn't have to
be like, hey, remember earlier when I blah blah blah.
Sometimes that's also important. A lot of times kids don't care,
and so you need to watch how they're feeling about something.
(24:45):
My guess is that when you kind of snap about something,
it's so not making your kids question whether or not
you love them that you come right back and everybody's
like you're just a nut and we move on. That
is true, and so, but I.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Do have kids that are hyper vigilant and sensitive. So
if I am feeling cranky or if I'm having a
bad day, they're noticing where some other kids might be like,
you know, just sort of like, oh, that's mom just
like doing her own thing. And so I have to say, like,
you know, this has nothing to do with you. Yeah,
(25:22):
burnt the broccoli, or I stub my toe or I
actually every time I cry, like if I cry about something,
if like Rob and I are in an argument and
I'm like I cry all the time, but I'll always
say like, oh, I just stubbed my toe. So now
my kids are like, we know you don't stub your toe, right.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I think that what you're talking about is like naming
your affective state. And it's such a gift to give
to your kids because a lot of times, you know,
we don't want our kids to know that we're experiencing
feelings and so we don't mention it. But then we're
walking around like clenched or you know, something's going on.
(25:57):
So it's it's better when you can to just say
I am having a rough day. It has nothing to
do with you. It's just I'm letting you know. Because
I might be a little snippy and I love you,
I also know how to take care of myself. So
I'm going to go take a walk around the block
because i need to clear my head and breathe some
nice air and then I'll be back.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I asked Rob in our marriage, like I asked him
to do that. If he comes home from work and
he's had a really better like go for a run, yeah,
and I say to him like I just just tell me,
just say like, hey, I had a really bad day
and I'm going to go work out or I had
a really bad date. It has nothing to do with you, yeah,
because or else you're just guessing. And I did that
a lot as a kid.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
It's scary.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, and so I really am. That is one thing
I'm super conscious about is always saying to them like, yeah,
you're one hundred percent right, I'm super cranky, I did
not sleep, I'm tired or whatever.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
You know, and you're doing you're taking away that like
a child's imagination is almost always going to think of
something worse than the truth.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
So it's such a gift to be able to say, oh, yeah,
I've had a terrible day. I'm going to zone out
and watch TV, or I'm going to go work out,
I'm going to take a bath or whatever it is
that makes you feel better. And also it has nothing
to do with you, and there's nothing that you can.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Do to make it better. It's just what it's just
my wave to ride.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And that's also the guessing like that you're talking about
from your childhood. Then you have to walk on eggshells
and kind of wonder, and then you might have to
perform to get the mood that you're looking for. Exactly
and it feels like it's on you right. Sorry to
the Winklers if that feels disrespectful suggesting.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
We're very open on what in the Winkler We are
very we dig deep over here.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Social media is taking over our life in a crazy way.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
And I mean I could watch your stories for days.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
My stories are amazing, they are, and I love Instagram
for that reason. I have fun with my stories. I mean,
I enjoy it. But I'm also private and I'm not
you know, but I'm also forty four, yes, and I
have a hard time putting down my phone. So you know,
Ace is like one of the only kids in his class,
(28:17):
he's in seventh grade that doesn't have social media, and
he asks me about it all the time. And I'm
getting to the point, you know, what is this like?
What is there like a roadmap to this, because it
just feels like uncharted territory, and not even just social media,
but technology like iPads I think are like crack.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, I'm horrible. I think, first of all, there isn't
a roadmap, and even those who claim to have a roadmap,
it's not rooted in any certainty. It's sort of a
guess my guess is that the way the brain develops,
you want to be cooked longer. But also we want
(29:05):
to think about anything that we do offer. Like let's
say you do decide to say you can try starting
with social media, which delaying as long as you can
is going to be ideal. That it's not like, Okay,
now the genie's out of the bottle and that's it.
You can say I made a terrible mistake. I can
(29:27):
see that it's not good for you, and it's my
job to take it away right now while we figure
out a better plan or to minimize it. Or we
can start with you can use it on my phone
for five minutes. I mean, that's a separate thing, just
because I personally don't like my kids to be near
my phone. I just it's my private phone, and also
I have clients and I just don't need But there
(29:51):
are many ways to do baby steps and say like
let's see how you do, let's see how this feels
for you, and I'm going to make some agreements with you,
and then we're going to take it away if it's
not working. And I don't think you should do that yet.
I think you have time to just keep delaying but
when you do, I just feel like I see so
many parents feel trapped, like, well, it's too late, and
(30:14):
unless they're paying their bills and working their jobs, it's
never too late. And as long as you have compassion
when you say it, like I know this is going
to be really a bummer because you loved this, but
it's not going well. And my job is to be
able to say when you can't, this isn't good for you.
And so I think there are definitely steps. Delaying is
(30:39):
the first one, and the second one is supporting, mentoring,
monitoring to a certain extent, because they can't their brains
aren't in any way, shape or form able to self
regulate around this. And I have heard from some people like,
and I'm not an extremist, I would also say like,
I have a friend who has a ninth grader who
(31:01):
has social media, and she's totally thriving, and she's super
social and in real life, and she is taking her
phone away at night and she's not using it at
the dinner table, and the kid is doing great. So
when her mom asked should I remove social media from
her life? I was like, I think you've already removed it.
(31:22):
During the risky times and she's thriving, Whereas someone else
might say that to me, and I would ask like, well,
how's your kid doing in their friendships and what are
they feeling about their body image and what's going on
in their sleep and all those things, And if the
answers are more bleak, I would say they are not
candidates for this.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
So it really is a kid by kid it is.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
There's just never one size fits all. I know that
everybody likes that because it's more comfortable and comforting, but
each of your kid kids are going to be different.
It's never good for younger kids. It's never you know,
it's always good to delay. But I just think there
are going to be some who shouldn't have it, like
they just are not candidates for it at all. Ever,
and somewhere when they get to a certain age, it's
(32:06):
probably really fun.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Right, I mean, that's the question. And I feel like
I definitely do. I know my kids, so I all
of them, you know, and I know, and I'm so
happy that he has a phone. It's changed art life.
Like you know, if he where he is, where he
if he wants to be picked up, I track him,
you know, all the things but it is also scary
(32:28):
that like some a stranger could reach out to your kid,
and you know, you hear these stories and it just
feels so big that I don't even know where to start.
And I and A said to me the other day, like,
you say no more than any of my friend's parents,
And I almost felt I almost felt I felt like embarrassed.
I was like, oh, God, am I like And then I,
you know, because I have my own stuff, I'm like, oh,
(32:49):
is he going to be included? And is he gonna
But then I thought to myself, I wonder if part
of him even feels maybe like more contained. Yeah, because
I'm making the hard decisions for him.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
One of the most one of the biggest predictors of anxiety,
other than like heritability of anxiety and chaos in general,
is permissiveness. So it's so scary when you're kind of
the leader of the house and you're wishy washy about
these things and kind of letting the kids decide on
(33:22):
like when they're ready for everything. So I think the
idea of collaborating with kids and hearing from them but
then making the final decision is actually quite comforting. So
even if he hates it, he really like benefits from it.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
It's like comfortable. Yeah, what this might be like a
very hard question to answer because I know you cover
so many topics, but what episode or topic has resonated
most deeply with your listeners on your podcast? Like what
is the what is the topic that you get asked
most about? Is there is there one that you can
think of?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I mean, I can't even believe this, but I think
disciplines still just really comes up all the time. And
I mean from whether we're talking about toddlers or teenagers,
just kind of like the the the trickiness of like
having a close connected relationship and having boundaries and limits
(34:19):
that upset your kids or which ones are appropriate or
how do you do that? I think that really is
just a constant source of tension. And probably no, that's
it the consequences.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
It's interesting because it's the idea is that you the
consequence makes sense and aligns with whatever the behavior was.
So it's like this morning, for instance, one of my
kids woke up really early to find Buddy the Elf,
and I was like, it's too early.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Whose Buddy the Elf?
Speaker 1 (34:53):
The elf on the show? I don't know why I
did this, but I don't know why I did this.
I have two I have I have Buddy and Astro.
I can't even talk about it. And literally, this is
what's so crazy. There's a mom in Jules's class that
I love. Actually she's in Gus's class. Her nephew is
in Jules's class. And I just actually see what she
(35:15):
posts on Instagram and then I copy it and I
just do the exact thing the next night. So she
did sprinkles in the I don't even know with the elves,
and I did it whatever. Anyways, I totally ruined it.
Apparently my sink drips and so the sprinkles were submerged
in water. The tape all the sprinkles that, yeah, it
(35:36):
was horrible. Anyways, I'm a failure at the elf. But
he wanted to get up and see the elf, and
I was like, it's not time to get up. I
was exhausted. Sleep is the most important thing to me.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
And I.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Was like, if you don't, if you wake me up
one more time, you are going to lose your iPad
this weekend, because they get ipout on the weekend. I realized, like,
that doesn't make sense, doesn't make sense. Wasn't a thing.
It was also six, but it's late start on Wednesday,
so I really wanted to sleep till seven. But it's
hard to figure out. I feel like I don't I
(36:09):
don't give my kids enough punishments or consequence. I don't
know if that's saying because I can't figure out all
the time, Like what what called it makes sense?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, I mean in that case, to me, it's like
there won't be elf on the shelf. Right, I said that,
and that's it.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
The elf was already suspended from the light in the kitchen,
wrapped in tinfoil, looking like they were on the moon. Well,
so I couldn't really the next day, right, like I think.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
The elf isn't going to be able to come if
you get up too early or whatever. But I also,
as a side note, it's very exciting, like it's an
exciting time, So it makes sense. So I would also say,
I totally get why you're so excited, and you can
stare at that elf and look for that elf, but
not not until not with me, and not you can
do it, but you have to let Yeah, but I'm
(36:57):
going to sleep. But the other thing is that you
don't need them to suffer because of the consequences. Like,
I think part of why we're trying to figure out
a consequence that makes sense and then we think it
doesn't work is because we're like looking for them to say, like, oh,
now I understand that I did something wrong, and therefore.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
I'm gonna yeah, Like is that even gonna right?
Speaker 2 (37:16):
That's not. It's more like learning cause and effect and
nothing more right, but nobody ever, Like behavior change doesn't
occur from punishment anyway, but moving through the world occurs
better when you know that there are consequences to your actions.
So if they're arbitrary, you don't learn that.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Okay, that makes a lot of sense. One more thing
before we do this really fun game where it's like
a lightning round. I'm super fired up.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
I'm not such a slow talking and moving person. We'll
make it work, Okay, I actually know this about you.
What I'm something I'm struggling with is the sibling Oh
that was the other thing I forgot to say, discipline
and siblings.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
The sibling thing. There you go, it's it's really it's
really like I'll be like, do you guys know how
lucky you are to have each other? And they're looking
at me like, no, we don't. We just do have
each other, right, And I often think, what is I
need to understand what is healthy sibling rivalry and cattiness
(38:22):
and fighting and all that stuff, and like, what is
what is when I need to step in? I mean
obviously when it gets physical, but I mean they don't
really get physical. I have like they're not like they're
not like hugely physical kids. They're like a little bit
ninnies like me.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Oh my god, I don't think they're very strong. You
don't need to jump in as much as you think
you do. That's the first thing.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
I just can't hear it all day.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Well, so that's a separate thing, because the viciousness of
siblings is pretty intense. And I what I would say
across the board is you can't really believe that this
is okay except it is. And I'm not saying you
should be like as get as mean as you want
because this is normative, but knowing in your heart, like, okay,
they are not going to grow up and hate each
(39:10):
other because of these vicious moments. They much more likely
will struggle. If you intervene all the time and are
sort of you want to be a witness not a judge,
and it's really hard not to judge because it's so
you know, we identify with one of the kids in
the situation, and then we're just like, I'm going to
just take you down the other kid. But if you
(39:30):
can just not intervene as often as possible, but then
coach when you intervene, what does that look like? Well,
for one thing, I would say to them, Hey, guys,
if you're going to fight, since I'm going to have
to do something about it. If I hear this, I
suggest you get smarter about it, like do it away
(39:50):
from me, do it in the other room, use a
whispering voice, like be intentional and manipulative and you're fighting.
This is ridiculous because of course you're gonna have to
say something if they're doing it in your face.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
So they always say that I that the younger one
gets away with everything because he will have like a
level ten tantrum, right, which is something you know I have.
I never had a kid until my youngest that would
really just give it their all, like I could always
rein it in, I could always I could always reach them.
(40:23):
He will just go and he doesn't care where he
is and he's big, so I can't lift him up
now and be like, excuse me, I need to remove
you from the situation. So it's not that i'm always
but he's also the youngest. He's also seven, so it's
like a big difference between you know, thirteen and nine.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
But you don't want the older ones to resent him, no,
I do not, so also believing that like when he
goes there, he'll come out right, it just might take
a really long time. Is so you know, it's like
what can you tolerate? But you definitely don't need to
intervene as much as you do for sure. I don't
even know how much you intervene, but I mean, and.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
It's just like they have to decide on what show
to watch together, which is hard because that is hard
seven to thirteen. But they don't have iPads during the week,
and we have a TV in our room and then
we have a TV in the living room, so they
have to like so it's usually I have nowhere to
go in my house. I'll literally sit in my closet
or on the bathroom floor because one of them is
in my room, one of two of them are in
(41:21):
the living room. And then I just I'm like, where
do I go.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Well, I mean you can, but again it's like what
can you tolerate? But you can just decide that you
sit with them and you make a calendar and on
this this is the day of the week that Gus chooses,
This is the day of the week the Jewels chooses. Like,
you can do that. We do that with songs in
the car, so you can do it with TV shows
and then just I mean it's hard because you can't
do that with everything. There's endless stage difference, you know,
(41:48):
like they don't always have to like it. I mean,
let me tell you, don't you remember from childhood, like
there just weren't a lot of options.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
You don't.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Don't I had lots of options as a child. I think,
lots of rooms to go into. It's a very different
program over at my house.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
You know what, though, what you don't know is how
awesome it is that your kids don't have they have
to figure out how to work together because that is
what builds closeness. And so they don't have to like
the TV show that they're watching. That's the other thing
is like.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
And they can also do something else and they.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Can opt out, so if you choose what you know
and you can say that to them, you can opt out.
But someone's not going to be happy. That is just
a given. And I need to be.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Happy the most important person.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
So I would like you guys to be or you
can say we don't have to watch TV at all
during the week, like I want. I'm here for you guys,
I'm on your team. I want there to be this option.
But I'm not going to listen to this all day.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Okay, I just want to do this fun lightning round
really quickly because we're running out of time because it
talks slowly. No, you're amazing, but like it's my podcast
is a little bit short. Maybe if they renew me,
it'll get longer. Okay, So what is the most overrated
piece of parenting advice you've heard?
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (43:05):
God, the most overrated parenting advice? Have you ever seen
a slower lightning round? No?
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Never, You're gonna have to do better. Run question number one. Okay,
I'll go to the next one. What is an underutilized
parenting tool more people should know about?
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Zipping it? Zipping It?
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Name one must read book.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
For parents, The Five Principles of Parenting, Your Essential guide
to raise a good humor effect.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Share your favorite parenting moment.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
My favorite parenting moment is makes me look like the worst,
But no, can I tell you too?
Speaker 1 (43:42):
May be so fast I want to.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
The first one was when my youngest was seven and
my oldest was ten. And my oldest and I are
like boppier as people, like if we had a tail,
it'd be wagging, and my younger one's more like a cat.
And I looked at her in the dinner and I said, Vivian,
why aren't you happy? And she said, mom, just because
(44:05):
I'm not smiling doesn't mean I'm not happy. And I
was like, oh right. As a psychologist, this could be
something I know, but as a mother I did not,
And I was so excited. I was like, thank you
for knowing who you are and reminding me that I
need to know who you are.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
And the other one is that I got into a
fight with my oldest very recently. And we do not
fight very much like we might argue about a song
in the car bicker, but I'm not like a fighter,
and she is just about to be eighteen, and I
was so mean, and it was because of a sibling
I did not like I just was set off by
(44:43):
something between the kids, and I was really mean, and
I was uncharacteristically mean and shamed. I just like went
into my room and kind of just sat there, like
I'm a failure as of both a mother and in
my job, and I should just call it. Also, I
thought I ruined her future. And Colin said to me
(45:06):
because I called him like sabbing my fiance, and I said,
I've done it. I'm like the worst. And he said,
what would you tell a client? And I said, you
mean the whole repair thing. It's nonsense, Like this is
all nonsense, and and I just like I went too far.
And then she came into my room like ten minutes later,
and she said, I'm pretty sure by now you want
(45:28):
to repair, right, And I said I do. I'm so sorry,
and she's like it's okay. I love you and I
said I love you too, and then she started talking
about something completely off topic that was like it just
indicated to me that our relationship was actually like strong,
it was strong, and that the science isn't a lie,
you know, Like I was like, oh, I'm not full
of it. I don't have to stop now. And I
(45:49):
didn't ruin everything I love.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
I love both of those. What is the most creative
bedtime delay tactic you've encountered?
Speaker 2 (45:58):
I think just a class really serious question about God
or or whatever.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Yeah, he said to me last night, Why would God because.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
The internet was out? Yeah, classic God.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
And so we weren't able to listen to his meditation
sure that he needs. And it was a real it
was a real problem. And he said, why would God
do bad things? And I said, like what I was thinking,
like war, death, make the internet not work when he
knows that I need a meditation. Oh, I said, God's
really busy right now working on some other things.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
How wonderful that that's like the worst thing he got.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
I said to him, maybe this is a lesson because
we need to learn how to go to bed without meditations. Meanwhile,
I found it on my phone, so it all works
out because I'm pathetic. What would you say, is your
parenting superpower? I know what it is you do. What
is it You've created like this incredible, loving safe household
where Penelope can come and say to you, let's repair
(46:57):
and not even it doesn't even and like, yes, you
went too far, but it doesn't even phase her because
she just like moved on and was talking about something else.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Yeah, I think I think my parenting superpower might just
be like I'm a good hang with them, like I
just want to hang out for anyone, to be honest.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
What questions would your teenagers definitely ask if they were
conducting this interview.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
I don't think they would be interested in any way,
shape or form in interviewing me.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
What is the most surprising phrase you've caught yourself saying
as a parent?
Speaker 2 (47:33):
I think that I often say the most annoying phrase,
which is what's your plan? What's your plan? And my
kids are like, our plan is too like it's not
saying I would.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
I say that every day? And now my kids also
say what is our plan? Every day?
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Mine don't think that it's productive, and it really like
it is so annoying to them because but then I
say it anyway, I can't help it.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
You did great on the lightning round except for the
first one. Would you like anymore? We're done?
Speaker 2 (48:04):
No? I just the worst parenting advice is probably to
do anything that is prescriptive, because it just doesn't work that.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Way unless it feels authentic to you.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Don't do it unless it feels authentic to you.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
I'll work for you now, I just won't go get
my master's. Thank you for listening to What in the Winkler.
Make sure to tell a friend thank you, Lisa
You are listening to What in the Winkler and iHeartRadio podcast.
Welcome back to another episode of What in the Winkler.
I am so excited because today we have a really
special guest and she's not a family member, so this
is like a real legit guest. Doctor Eliza Pressman is
a developmental psychologist with nearly two decades of experience working
(00:26):
with families and the healthcare providers who care for them.
She's the author of the New York Times best selling
book The Five Principles of Parenting, Your Essential Guide to
Raising Good Humans, and the host of the award winning
podcast Raising Good Humans. And most importantly, she is a really, really,
really dear friend of mine. And I'm so excited You're
hair welcome. Thank you. I'm so happy you're here. Thank
(00:48):
you for doing this. You're like my first official guest. Actually, no,
that's not true. I had Kim and you, I mean.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Kim Kardashian. That's fine, but your numbers are going to
go crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
So Alisa and I actually met before I even had kids.
Alisa used to run an incredible parenting group in New
York called the Seedlings Group, and I wanted to work
for her until she told me that I had to
have my masters to do so, and then I decided, no,
we'll just be friends. I did not want to go
(01:24):
back to school, and so we met in New York.
I mean fourteen years ago. Can you believe it?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
No, I think it was fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
It was fifteen years ago. I didn't even have kids yet,
so you're right, fifteen years ago. And she's obviously gone
on to write this incredible bestselling New York Times bestseller book,
which I hosted one of the LA launch.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Parties, the first launch I sure did.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
And you're here today.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
To yeah, why am I here?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Okay, So you're here today because I think parenting is
the most incredible opportunity that we get to do, and
it's also the hardest thing I've ever done in my
entire life, even if you just want to do it
like kind of okay, it's really hard. And you've helped
(02:16):
me throughout the years with my kids, and I thought
we could just talk a little bit about parenting and
your expertise in all subjects and answer all my questions
and have my own personal therapy session.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I'm so excited. Also, just I want to say that
I know that it's off putting and annoying to be
like an expert in this when we are the experts
for our kids and for ourselves. So I'm technically an
expert in that I have a degree in this area
and I work in this area, but I don't want
(02:51):
to I think one of the things that we have
to know as an expert is that we don't know
nearly as much as we think we do. And I
don't want to say that and then make you feel
like what I what I would share with you is
something you shouldn't trust so much as just know that
it's just going to be different. And we've had this
experience where I'll say something and you're like, no.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yes, that is true. I come from a very emotional
background and you come from a very clinical background.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I think that's probably so often times you'll I remember
when my Ace was obsessed with his pacifier and you
were very you know, clear on me taking it away,
and I think I just said like, no, thanks, no thanks.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
By the way, I believe in passifiers for the first year.
I mean I think he was.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Going on for Yeah, I think it was time for
the passifiers to go away. But I think one of
the most incredible things about you is that you never
make anybody that's speaking to you feel a embarrassed or
bad about the choices that they may have made. And
you also make it feel very approachable, so you really
(04:04):
take into account who it is that you're speaking to,
and then you go off of that. You know, like,
there's so many books where it's like do it this way, yeah,
and it's not going to work if it's not in
line with who you are as a human or a parent.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Right, yes, I mean, if I want to know who
you are, I don't want to tell you who to be.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Right which is I mean, I think that's the difference
between you and other parenting. That's why I was so
anxious to have you on because I think a lot
of times we don't ask the questions because we feel like, oh,
we should know the answers. Yeah, or I'm going to
feel stupid if I ask this question, and I'm going
(04:45):
to feel like a bad parent, because so much of
the time amazing parents there's no perfect parent, but parents
feel I don't know. Today, for instance, I missed pajama
Day at school, and I felt like.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I'm only laughing because I've definitely done.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
That, right, But it was for Gus, who would love,
definitely love the pajama day care the most. And I
felt like I was so embarrassed, and I was in school,
like watching all the kids come in their pajamas, and
I just thought to myself, holy shit, my morning is
about to suck, right. And he was actually fine with it, ah,
(05:19):
which is shocking because I think I dropped him off.
I didn't like walk him in, So I think it
because I wasn't there, he was okay.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
He couldn't give you a reaction. Well, that's really adaptable.
That's kind of a wins.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
It's it's it's really like kind of a big move
forward for him because we get stuck a lot of
the times. What initially drew you to focus on parenting
and child development? What do you think?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Before I answer that question, may I also just say,
ye that the fact that you made that mistake, I
think gave him permission to make mistakes. So I think
it was a win all around, except for the embarrassment
of like being lightly disorganized in a moment, right, which.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
We all I mean.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
And also, why are they doing pajama day this month?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Oh? Because at this school every single Wednesday is a
theme for first grade. So that's really hard to keep
up with all the themes and I'm barely making it
through the week. So I just I was also I
give tours at the school, at the elementary school, and
I found out about the pajama Day as the tour
(06:26):
was beginning, so I was like, oh, okay, this is great,
this is yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Okay, sorry to interrupt, but I just felt like that
we do need to do that more often. And it's
easier for me to say to you than to believe myself.
But I think those are moments where we're giving our
kids permission to make mistakes, and you want.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Them to know that if they make a mistake, the
sky doesn't fall.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
The sky doesn't fall.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Right, So tell me about why you went into parenting
and child development.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I mean, I think probably nobody into any field related
to psychology that doesn't have some curiosity about like how
in the world they came to be who they are
and the people around them came to be who they are.
(07:15):
I think I had a colorful family, and like, on
the deepest level, my grandfather's a Holocaust driver, so it
was my grandmother. She's just no longer alive, but that
was such a huge part of my childhood, was hearing
about the Holocaust at every conversation with our family, and
(07:38):
I was mesmerized at how you could come out of
that kind of trauma and raise three kids and then
grandkids and now great grandkids, and how that impacts their
growth and development. And so I think from just observationally,
I thought it was fascinating. And then I think probably
just being the you know, like a kid, a child
(07:58):
of divorce and things happening in life, I just was like,
how does this work?
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And how did you end up being a co founder
and director of the Mount Seini Parenting Center, And can
you tell us a little bit about like what that is?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So I was I guess I started. I was interested
in this field before I had kids, and I just
knew that I wanted to work for kids. I don't
know if I wanted to work with kids once I
had kids, but I knew that I wanted to work
(08:37):
for serving kids and families. And then I was working
with more affluent families in my private practice, and I
was teaching at the hospital. I was teaching residents their
behavior and development rotation it's called and somehow like I
(08:58):
had the opportunity from that more affluent families that I
worked with, they wanted to figure out, like how could
they give back and could it help the families in
that the hospital serves. And now we work across the country,
but to have access to parenting and child development and
(09:21):
all the things that can support mothers and parents in general.
So we decided to open a parenting center there. And
then because I was teaching residents, I also learned that
pediatricians don't really have much training in most of the
things that we asked them about, because when you go
to the pediatrician's office, they're pretty routine and like they
know how to give vaccines and deal with us, you know,
(09:44):
an illness, but most of the questions they get asked
about are parenting questions, especially in those first five years.
And so what I was working very closely with a
pediatrician who I co founded the parenting center with, and
she was like, this is information that pediatricians want and
need because they're oftentimes either winging it going by their
(10:04):
own experience or asking their mentor, And wouldn't it be
nice if there was a more streamlined approach to understanding
behavior and development and creating a curriculum. So that was
the first thing we did, was to create a curriculum
for residents that would integrate parenting into their already existing visits.
(10:26):
And so everything that we do is related to making
sure that if you are going into a hospital or
clinic setting, which is where ninety nine percent of babies
are born, I think maybe it's ninety seven, that there's
support for you as the provider.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
It's so interesting because when I was a teacher for
ten years, and then I was a therapeutic companion, a
one to one shadow for four years, so I had
a lot of experience with kids and young kids too.
But when I became a parent, everybody prepares you for
the pregnancy and for the birth, but nobody talks about
when you go home and you're alone with that baby.
(11:14):
And even if you have all the experience in the world,
it's you forget everything and it goes out the window
because now it's your, your baby, and so all the
emotion and all of the you're it's so it's all intertwined.
Whereas when you're giving advice about someone else's child, the
emotional like poll isn't there as much. So I think
(11:35):
that that's so amazing that families across the country have
that opportunity because everyone prepares you for the birth. But
that to me was I mean, it wasn't easy, but
I definitely got an epidural, but that quick. It's quick,
and it's like most of the times you're surrounded by doctors,
so it's like, you know, but then you go home
and you're alone.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I know, there's no you. You really just have like
two of it. That was the other thing as we noticed, like, Okay,
at the hospital, you have to watch a video on
putting your kid in a car seat and shaking baby syndrome,
and that's it. And we were like, what about videos
that can help you actually get through these next few
months for sleeping and feeding and connecting and touch and
all of the things that could be so helpful, including
(12:19):
things that can minimize chances of postpartum depression. And it
all happens in these settings, but there aren't a lot
of resources for it. So that was really fun. And
also there's so much There are so many hospitals and
there are so many places across the country that don't
have like in where we started was New York City
(12:41):
and we're in LA Obviously those are places that have
a lot of resources and a lot of practitioners, but
most places in the country there's such a shortage. So
anything that you can do, I mean, we even made
well Child Visit videos to help families and also the
care providers, like what are the questions it might come up?
What are some things that you can find out about
(13:03):
that will save you the time and the visit, because
for the majority of the country, it's not like you
can just grab a psychologist on the way.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
And then also it's you know, it's funny because for me,
my my biggest challenge after having three kids was zero
to one. I was so anxious. The jump from one
to two was so much easier for me, not physically,
I mean, there's a lot more to do, and you're
you know, you survived. I survived the first one and
(13:33):
the anxiety I had with zero to one. I didn't
have postpartum depression, but I did have postpartum anxiety, which
you know, and it was so difficult.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
For me to.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Just let him sort of be and I was always
worried about something happening to him or to me or
to you know, and it consumed me. So then when
I knew he's going to eat, he going to sleep,
or he's never going to sleep, which is kind of
what happened, you know, at once I could accept that
and I knew sort of I had like a little
(14:07):
bit of a roadmap as to what it was going
to look like with two and three, even though they're
all different and they're different people, it was so much easier.
It gave me comfort.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, I mean, I think there everybody has like their
different time in parenthood that's most challenging, and I feel
like if you haven't had it, it's just that it
hasn't come yet. It's kind of like when people talk
about like, oh, two terrible twos or whatever, and you think, no,
my two year old was not remotely pushing the limits
or anything. But then really that's because it'll happen at three.
(14:38):
It's not we're not skipping any of these.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Steps, right, They all come when they come. What do
you think, after like working with all these families, what
have you noticed are the modern parenting challenges? Because I
think to myself all the time my parents, I'm sure
I thought it was really difficult raising us in our generation,
But then I think with social media and and just
as like all these things that are now at our kids' fingertips,
(15:05):
it seems like it's way more complicated now to raise kids,
even though I'm sure that our kids will feel.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
That it was so much easier right back.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
And so, what do you think are like the major
modern parenting challenges for right now?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I mean, I think this parenting stress, which the Surge
in general just wrote and advisory on, is a big
challenge because we're expected to do more and we don't
have more resources to do it. I think that's huge.
And I have a sneaking suspicion in the service of
(15:41):
wanting to be more emotionally available to our kids, we
are really afraid of their feelings and so we do
we like bend over backwards to try to make sure
that we fix any feelings that are really hard. And
that is just.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
We've talked about that exhaust to what I do well.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I mean, but it's very natural, because you'd be such
a beast if you didn't have you know, like, if
you're just like I don't care if you're miserable. It's hard.
It's your child. It's so hard. Although I have a
harder time I think with other people's kids seeing them
struggling than I do with my own kids, because at
least I'm like, I know ultimately they're loved and they're safe,
(16:22):
and this is a moment whereas somebody else's child, I
feel a little bit. You know, It's like when you're
taking care of somebody else's kid, you just get a
little bit more worried. But I think that is a
massive challenge, and it's because we feel parenting. Yeah, like
we got so we felt so rightfully, like we didn't
(16:44):
get enough maybe attention to feelings, and we just accidentally
went too far probably and the burden is now on
the parents today, right.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I Actually last night at dinner, one of my kids
was telling we do rose bud and thorn every night,
and we also do a seed like what we're excited
to learn. But his thorn was that his best friend
said to him, you talk too fast, and I don't
want to play with you anymore. And I could feel.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I can feel you.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
I was, I was unwell, and Rob was looking at
me across the table like scared the whole gust coming out. Yeah,
And you know, I when my kid tells me that
something has happened to them. I think I told I
told this Stir on your podcast. Actually, so, when Ace
was in preschool, there was a kid who was not
letting him play basketball and said that he couldn't play
(17:39):
because he didn't have the right shoes, I remember, And
so I went up to him and I said, do
you know what happens when you're unkind? And he said, yeah,
someone tells the teacher. And I said, oh my gosh, no,
it's like way worse than that. Nobody will have you
over for play dates because you're not kind. And then
I looked at Ace and I said, an Ace, Blake
(18:03):
Griffin is coming for dinner tonight. Mima. I don't know
Blake Griffin. He's a clipper. He was a clipper at
the time.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I mean, I only know because I know the story
of other world.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
So I don't know him. I don't he's never been
to my home. But I just like, I completely had
an out of body experience. I got into my car.
I called Rob and I just said, I just I
just got into it with a five year old, like
what is going to happen to me? And then I
really it laid that, like you know, I learned from that,
(18:30):
I really did. As something comes.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Over, you just get so protected.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
It's mentally ill and I'm in therapy. So what's wrong
with me? And what do I do? Can you help?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh? My god? I think I think that is a
medication question. I think this has nothing to do with
your parenting. You would do that probably in any situation.
I would be a friend, and that is part of
your charm. It's just that it's probably better with als
(19:01):
or with.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
No one at all. I need a puzzle when I'm out.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I think it's more like, don't try to take on everything.
But I would say for the underage set, it's just
it's not serving you or them or your kids. But
it is very funny.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
So what it makes for great it's got our story
on a podcast.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
And also your son just kind of like it's okay, mom.
You know that he's like, they're gonna grow up and
they're just gonna be like, please, don't piss off my mom.
I assure you, it's not a good idea.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
What so what in those moments when a child shares
because you want them to share things with you and
you don't want them to get to the point where
he's like I don't even want to tell you anything
because you're gonna freak out.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I think that's the most important point.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So what's the best response when that happens, when a
kid says, hey, you know this person was mean to
me today, or just share something I know? The number
one thing is you don't interview for pain, right, Yeah,
you don't.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
So well, that's like that. That is so like don't
start your you know, pick up with how did it
go today? With so and so? Okay, But the other
thing is, and it seems trite, and it is so
life changing, is it? Whenever? Just promise yourself. This is
all you have to do is promise yourself that when
(20:16):
you hear a story, you will take a breath during
and after that story before you react, just because it
tells your body that you are not in danger. You
do not need to go into fight mode. And that
way you can hear the story, receive a story, and
make it about how your kid feels instead of how
(20:39):
you feel.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Right, So that's what I was doing. Was actually incredibly selfish.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
No, it's not that it's selfish, it's just that it's natural.
We all feel. Please, if you don't think that there
have been times when I'm like, my entire goal this
year is to make sure. I mean, I won't even
say it, but I think it's very natural.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
So what is the response when I can kid, When
when your child tells you that something on upsetting happened
to them, what is the like, what is the response,
I'm really sorry that happened.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
No, I would take a breath, very committed to breathing, okay,
and then after you've taken a breath, refocus the spotlight
on your child and just say, so, how did it
feel like? Or you can say I'm so glad you
(21:28):
told me that. Like, I really like knowing these things.
I know I can't do anything about it, but is
there anything that.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I can I can't do something right because well last
night at dinner, I did say, well, you can't.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Fix his fee. I guess you couldn't fix the pain.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
No, I can't. And I did say to Gus. We
talked about it again when I was putting him to bed,
because that takes hours upon hours, and he was telling
me everything that he was feeling that night and last night,
and I said, you know, only spend time with friends
are supposed to make you feel good. So if a
friend is making you feel good, it's okay to take
a break. Is that okay?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Of course, okay, of course that's okay. I think the
key is.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Like it's totally okay. But here's what I would do now.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
First of all, again, I just want to say it's
easier for me because I'm not in the emotions of it,
Like I know what it's like.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
But you have two children and you're very appropriate.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
No, but there are definitely times when I'm like, you
don't want to peak in high school? You know, like
I say small, little obnoxious things about other people Like
that is definitely and maybe I would even go as
far as occasionally saying, like, you know, beyond you don't
want to peak in high school, I might even predict
(22:43):
what that person's future looks like, Like there are moments
when I'm not proud of myself. You want to think
that more often than not, you have a reaction that's
about them and not you, kind of getting aroused and angered.
But sometimes you're going to and I think that's just like, whatever,
(23:04):
give ourselves a break. It's really hard to watch somebody
be cruel to your child. That's just a hard thing
you did to teach.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Me that one of the most important things you can
do as a parent is to repair. Can you talk
a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
So when you make a mistake, which you will constantly,
thankfully we get to make you made a mistake today.
Repair is just reconnecting. So first you have to do
that with yourself. So like if you screw up and
you are mad at yourself, a really important practice is
to say, like, hold on a second, I I made
(23:38):
a mistake. The world still goes on, the the sun
is still shining, Like this is okay. I don't want
to do it again in this way. So here's what
I'm going to do next time. But I'm I'm also
modeling that I can make mistakes and that it's not
the end of the world, and that I can forgive myself.
So you have to be able to repair with yourself
(24:00):
in order to repair with your kids. And then when
you have like discord with your kids or a moment
where you just feel like I lost my pool or whatever,
then finding a moment to reconnect. It doesn't have to
be an apology, like sometimes it's not appropriate to apologize.
Sometimes it's more like it's a small thing, but you
just want to get back to giggling together or knowing
(24:22):
that you've got each other and that everything's okay between you.
And it can be silent, it can be like sitting
closer together and watching something funny. It doesn't have to
be like, hey, remember earlier when I blah blah blah.
Sometimes that's also important. A lot of times kids don't care,
and so you need to watch how they're feeling about something.
(24:45):
My guess is that when you kind of snap about something,
it's so not making your kids question whether or not
you love them that you come right back and everybody's
like you're just a nut and we move on. That
is true, and so, but I.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Do have kids that are hyper vigilant and sensitive. So
if I am feeling cranky or if I'm having a
bad day, they're noticing where some other kids might be like,
you know, just sort of like, oh, that's mom just
like doing her own thing. And so I have to say, like,
you know, this has nothing to do with you. Yeah,
(25:22):
burnt the broccoli, or I stub my toe or I
actually every time I cry, like if I cry about something,
if like Rob and I are in an argument and
I'm like I cry all the time, but I'll always
say like, oh, I just stubbed my toe. So now
my kids are like, we know you don't stub your toe, right.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I think that what you're talking about is like naming
your affective state. And it's such a gift to give
to your kids because a lot of times, you know,
we don't want our kids to know that we're experiencing
feelings and so we don't mention it. But then we're
walking around like clenched or you know, something's going on.
(25:57):
So it's it's better when you can to just say
I am having a rough day. It has nothing to
do with you. It's just I'm letting you know. Because
I might be a little snippy and I love you,
I also know how to take care of myself. So
I'm going to go take a walk around the block
because i need to clear my head and breathe some
nice air and then I'll be back.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I asked Rob in our marriage, like I asked him
to do that. If he comes home from work and
he's had a really better like go for a run, yeah,
and I say to him like I just just tell me,
just say like, hey, I had a really bad day
and I'm going to go work out or I had
a really bad date. It has nothing to do with you, yeah,
because or else you're just guessing. And I did that
a lot as a kid.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
It's scary.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, and so I really am. That is one thing
I'm super conscious about is always saying to them like, yeah,
you're one hundred percent right, I'm super cranky, I did
not sleep, I'm tired or whatever.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
You know, and you're doing you're taking away that like
a child's imagination is almost always going to think of
something worse than the truth.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
So it's such a gift to be able to say, oh, yeah,
I've had a terrible day. I'm going to zone out
and watch TV, or I'm going to go work out,
I'm going to take a bath or whatever it is
that makes you feel better. And also it has nothing
to do with you, and there's nothing that you can.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Do to make it better. It's just what it's just
my wave to ride.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And that's also the guessing like that you're talking about
from your childhood. Then you have to walk on eggshells
and kind of wonder, and then you might have to
perform to get the mood that you're looking for. Exactly
and it feels like it's on you right. Sorry to
the Winklers if that feels disrespectful suggesting.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
We're very open on what in the Winkler We are
very we dig deep over here.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Social media is taking over our life in a crazy way.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
And I mean I could watch your stories for days.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
My stories are amazing, they are, and I love Instagram
for that reason. I have fun with my stories. I mean,
I enjoy it. But I'm also private and I'm not
you know, but I'm also forty four, yes, and I
have a hard time putting down my phone. So you know,
Ace is like one of the only kids in his class,
(28:17):
he's in seventh grade that doesn't have social media, and
he asks me about it all the time. And I'm
getting to the point, you know, what is this like?
What is there like a roadmap to this, because it
just feels like uncharted territory, and not even just social media,
but technology like iPads I think are like crack.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, I'm horrible. I think, first of all, there isn't
a roadmap, and even those who claim to have a roadmap,
it's not rooted in any certainty. It's sort of a
guess my guess is that the way the brain develops,
you want to be cooked longer. But also we want
(29:05):
to think about anything that we do offer. Like let's
say you do decide to say you can try starting
with social media, which delaying as long as you can
is going to be ideal. That it's not like, Okay,
now the genie's out of the bottle and that's it.
You can say I made a terrible mistake. I can
(29:27):
see that it's not good for you, and it's my
job to take it away right now while we figure
out a better plan or to minimize it. Or we
can start with you can use it on my phone
for five minutes. I mean, that's a separate thing, just
because I personally don't like my kids to be near
my phone. I just it's my private phone, and also
I have clients and I just don't need But there
(29:51):
are many ways to do baby steps and say like
let's see how you do, let's see how this feels
for you, and I'm going to make some agreements with you,
and then we're going to take it away if it's
not working. And I don't think you should do that yet.
I think you have time to just keep delaying but
when you do, I just feel like I see so
many parents feel trapped, like, well, it's too late, and
(30:14):
unless they're paying their bills and working their jobs, it's
never too late. And as long as you have compassion
when you say it, like I know this is going
to be really a bummer because you loved this, but
it's not going well. And my job is to be
able to say when you can't, this isn't good for you.
And so I think there are definitely steps. Delaying is
(30:39):
the first one, and the second one is supporting, mentoring,
monitoring to a certain extent, because they can't their brains
aren't in any way, shape or form able to self
regulate around this. And I have heard from some people like,
and I'm not an extremist, I would also say like,
I have a friend who has a ninth grader who
(31:01):
has social media, and she's totally thriving, and she's super
social and in real life, and she is taking her
phone away at night and she's not using it at
the dinner table, and the kid is doing great. So
when her mom asked should I remove social media from
her life? I was like, I think you've already removed it.
(31:22):
During the risky times and she's thriving, Whereas someone else
might say that to me, and I would ask like, well,
how's your kid doing in their friendships and what are
they feeling about their body image and what's going on
in their sleep and all those things, And if the
answers are more bleak, I would say they are not
candidates for this.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
So it really is a kid by kid it is.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
There's just never one size fits all. I know that
everybody likes that because it's more comfortable and comforting, but
each of your kid kids are going to be different.
It's never good for younger kids. It's never you know,
it's always good to delay. But I just think there
are going to be some who shouldn't have it, like
they just are not candidates for it at all. Ever,
and somewhere when they get to a certain age, it's
(32:06):
probably really fun.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Right, I mean, that's the question. And I feel like
I definitely do. I know my kids, so I all
of them, you know, and I know, and I'm so
happy that he has a phone. It's changed art life.
Like you know, if he where he is, where he
if he wants to be picked up, I track him,
you know, all the things but it is also scary
(32:28):
that like some a stranger could reach out to your kid,
and you know, you hear these stories and it just
feels so big that I don't even know where to start.
And I and A said to me the other day, like,
you say no more than any of my friend's parents,
And I almost felt I almost felt I felt like embarrassed.
I was like, oh, God, am I like And then I,
you know, because I have my own stuff, I'm like, oh,
(32:49):
is he going to be included? And is he gonna
But then I thought to myself, I wonder if part
of him even feels maybe like more contained. Yeah, because
I'm making the hard decisions for him.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
One of the most one of the biggest predictors of anxiety,
other than like heritability of anxiety and chaos in general,
is permissiveness. So it's so scary when you're kind of
the leader of the house and you're wishy washy about
these things and kind of letting the kids decide on
(33:22):
like when they're ready for everything. So I think the
idea of collaborating with kids and hearing from them but
then making the final decision is actually quite comforting. So
even if he hates it, he really like benefits from it.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
It's like comfortable. Yeah, what this might be like a
very hard question to answer because I know you cover
so many topics, but what episode or topic has resonated
most deeply with your listeners on your podcast? Like what
is the what is the topic that you get asked
most about? Is there is there one that you can
think of?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I mean, I can't even believe this, but I think
disciplines still just really comes up all the time. And
I mean from whether we're talking about toddlers or teenagers,
just kind of like the the the trickiness of like
having a close connected relationship and having boundaries and limits
(34:19):
that upset your kids or which ones are appropriate or
how do you do that? I think that really is
just a constant source of tension. And probably no, that's
it the consequences.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
It's interesting because it's the idea is that you the
consequence makes sense and aligns with whatever the behavior was.
So it's like this morning, for instance, one of my
kids woke up really early to find Buddy the Elf,
and I was like, it's too early.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Whose Buddy the Elf?
Speaker 1 (34:53):
The elf on the show? I don't know why I
did this, but I don't know why I did this.
I have two I have I have Buddy and Astro.
I can't even talk about it. And literally, this is
what's so crazy. There's a mom in Jules's class that
I love. Actually she's in Gus's class. Her nephew is
in Jules's class. And I just actually see what she
(35:15):
posts on Instagram and then I copy it and I
just do the exact thing the next night. So she
did sprinkles in the I don't even know with the elves,
and I did it whatever. Anyways, I totally ruined it.
Apparently my sink drips and so the sprinkles were submerged
in water. The tape all the sprinkles that, yeah, it
(35:36):
was horrible. Anyways, I'm a failure at the elf. But
he wanted to get up and see the elf, and
I was like, it's not time to get up. I
was exhausted. Sleep is the most important thing to me.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
And I.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Was like, if you don't, if you wake me up
one more time, you are going to lose your iPad
this weekend, because they get ipout on the weekend. I realized, like,
that doesn't make sense, doesn't make sense. Wasn't a thing.
It was also six, but it's late start on Wednesday,
so I really wanted to sleep till seven. But it's
hard to figure out. I feel like I don't I
(36:09):
don't give my kids enough punishments or consequence. I don't
know if that's saying because I can't figure out all
the time, Like what what called it makes sense?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, I mean in that case, to me, it's like
there won't be elf on the shelf. Right, I said that,
and that's it.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
The elf was already suspended from the light in the kitchen,
wrapped in tinfoil, looking like they were on the moon. Well,
so I couldn't really the next day, right, like I think.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
The elf isn't going to be able to come if
you get up too early or whatever. But I also,
as a side note, it's very exciting, like it's an
exciting time, So it makes sense. So I would also say,
I totally get why you're so excited, and you can
stare at that elf and look for that elf, but
not not until not with me, and not you can
do it, but you have to let Yeah, but I'm
(36:57):
going to sleep. But the other thing is that you
don't need them to suffer because of the consequences. Like,
I think part of why we're trying to figure out
a consequence that makes sense and then we think it
doesn't work is because we're like looking for them to say, like, oh,
now I understand that I did something wrong, and therefore.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
I'm gonna yeah, Like is that even gonna right?
Speaker 2 (37:16):
That's not. It's more like learning cause and effect and
nothing more right, but nobody ever, Like behavior change doesn't
occur from punishment anyway, but moving through the world occurs
better when you know that there are consequences to your actions.
So if they're arbitrary, you don't learn that.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Okay, that makes a lot of sense. One more thing
before we do this really fun game where it's like
a lightning round. I'm super fired up.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
I'm not such a slow talking and moving person. We'll
make it work, Okay, I actually know this about you.
What I'm something I'm struggling with is the sibling Oh
that was the other thing I forgot to say, discipline
and siblings.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
The sibling thing. There you go, it's it's really it's
really like I'll be like, do you guys know how
lucky you are to have each other? And they're looking
at me like, no, we don't. We just do have
each other, right, And I often think, what is I
need to understand what is healthy sibling rivalry and cattiness
(38:22):
and fighting and all that stuff, and like, what is
what is when I need to step in? I mean
obviously when it gets physical, but I mean they don't
really get physical. I have like they're not like they're
not like hugely physical kids. They're like a little bit
ninnies like me.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Oh my god, I don't think they're very strong. You
don't need to jump in as much as you think
you do. That's the first thing.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
I just can't hear it all day.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Well, so that's a separate thing, because the viciousness of
siblings is pretty intense. And I what I would say
across the board is you can't really believe that this
is okay except it is. And I'm not saying you
should be like as get as mean as you want
because this is normative, but knowing in your heart, like, okay,
they are not going to grow up and hate each
(39:10):
other because of these vicious moments. They much more likely
will struggle. If you intervene all the time and are
sort of you want to be a witness not a judge,
and it's really hard not to judge because it's so
you know, we identify with one of the kids in
the situation, and then we're just like, I'm going to
just take you down the other kid. But if you
(39:30):
can just not intervene as often as possible, but then
coach when you intervene, what does that look like? Well,
for one thing, I would say to them, Hey, guys,
if you're going to fight, since I'm going to have
to do something about it. If I hear this, I
suggest you get smarter about it, like do it away
(39:50):
from me, do it in the other room, use a
whispering voice, like be intentional and manipulative and you're fighting.
This is ridiculous because of course you're gonna have to
say something if they're doing it in your face.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
So they always say that I that the younger one
gets away with everything because he will have like a
level ten tantrum, right, which is something you know I have.
I never had a kid until my youngest that would
really just give it their all, like I could always
rein it in, I could always I could always reach them.
(40:23):
He will just go and he doesn't care where he
is and he's big, so I can't lift him up
now and be like, excuse me, I need to remove
you from the situation. So it's not that i'm always
but he's also the youngest. He's also seven, so it's
like a big difference between you know, thirteen and nine.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
But you don't want the older ones to resent him, no,
I do not, so also believing that like when he
goes there, he'll come out right, it just might take
a really long time. Is so you know, it's like
what can you tolerate? But you definitely don't need to
intervene as much as you do for sure. I don't
even know how much you intervene, but I mean, and.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
It's just like they have to decide on what show
to watch together, which is hard because that is hard
seven to thirteen. But they don't have iPads during the week,
and we have a TV in our room and then
we have a TV in the living room, so they
have to like so it's usually I have nowhere to
go in my house. I'll literally sit in my closet
or on the bathroom floor because one of them is
in my room, one of two of them are in
(41:21):
the living room. And then I just I'm like, where
do I go.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Well, I mean you can, but again it's like what
can you tolerate? But you can just decide that you
sit with them and you make a calendar and on
this this is the day of the week that Gus chooses,
This is the day of the week the Jewels chooses. Like,
you can do that. We do that with songs in
the car, so you can do it with TV shows
and then just I mean it's hard because you can't
do that with everything. There's endless stage difference, you know,
(41:48):
like they don't always have to like it. I mean,
let me tell you, don't you remember from childhood, like
there just weren't a lot of options.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
You don't.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Don't I had lots of options as a child. I think,
lots of rooms to go into. It's a very different
program over at my house.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
You know what, though, what you don't know is how
awesome it is that your kids don't have they have
to figure out how to work together because that is
what builds closeness. And so they don't have to like
the TV show that they're watching. That's the other thing
is like.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
And they can also do something else and they.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Can opt out, so if you choose what you know
and you can say that to them, you can opt out.
But someone's not going to be happy. That is just
a given. And I need to be.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Happy the most important person.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
So I would like you guys to be or you
can say we don't have to watch TV at all
during the week, like I want. I'm here for you guys,
I'm on your team. I want there to be this option.
But I'm not going to listen to this all day.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Okay, I just want to do this fun lightning round
really quickly because we're running out of time because it
talks slowly. No, you're amazing, but like it's my podcast
is a little bit short. Maybe if they renew me,
it'll get longer. Okay, So what is the most overrated
piece of parenting advice you've heard?
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (43:05):
God, the most overrated parenting advice? Have you ever seen
a slower lightning round? No?
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Never, You're gonna have to do better. Run question number one. Okay,
I'll go to the next one. What is an underutilized
parenting tool more people should know about?
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Zipping it? Zipping It?
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Name one must read book.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
For parents, The Five Principles of Parenting, Your Essential guide
to raise a good humor effect.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Share your favorite parenting moment.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
My favorite parenting moment is makes me look like the worst,
But no, can I tell you too?
Speaker 1 (43:42):
May be so fast I want to.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
The first one was when my youngest was seven and
my oldest was ten. And my oldest and I are
like boppier as people, like if we had a tail,
it'd be wagging, and my younger one's more like a cat.
And I looked at her in the dinner and I said, Vivian,
why aren't you happy? And she said, mom, just because
(44:05):
I'm not smiling doesn't mean I'm not happy. And I
was like, oh right. As a psychologist, this could be
something I know, but as a mother I did not,
And I was so excited. I was like, thank you
for knowing who you are and reminding me that I
need to know who you are.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
And the other one is that I got into a
fight with my oldest very recently. And we do not
fight very much like we might argue about a song
in the car bicker, but I'm not like a fighter,
and she is just about to be eighteen, and I
was so mean, and it was because of a sibling
I did not like I just was set off by
(44:43):
something between the kids, and I was really mean, and
I was uncharacteristically mean and shamed. I just like went
into my room and kind of just sat there, like
I'm a failure as of both a mother and in
my job, and I should just call it. Also, I
thought I ruined her future. And Colin said to me
(45:06):
because I called him like sabbing my fiance, and I said,
I've done it. I'm like the worst. And he said,
what would you tell a client? And I said, you
mean the whole repair thing. It's nonsense, Like this is
all nonsense, and and I just like I went too far.
And then she came into my room like ten minutes later,
and she said, I'm pretty sure by now you want
(45:28):
to repair, right, And I said I do. I'm so sorry,
and she's like it's okay. I love you and I
said I love you too, and then she started talking
about something completely off topic that was like it just
indicated to me that our relationship was actually like strong,
it was strong, and that the science isn't a lie,
you know, Like I was like, oh, I'm not full
of it. I don't have to stop now. And I
(45:49):
didn't ruin everything I love.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
I love both of those. What is the most creative
bedtime delay tactic you've encountered?
Speaker 2 (45:58):
I think just a class really serious question about God
or or whatever.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Yeah, he said to me last night, Why would God because.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
The internet was out? Yeah, classic God.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
And so we weren't able to listen to his meditation
sure that he needs. And it was a real it
was a real problem. And he said, why would God
do bad things? And I said, like what I was thinking,
like war, death, make the internet not work when he
knows that I need a meditation. Oh, I said, God's
really busy right now working on some other things.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
How wonderful that that's like the worst thing he got.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
I said to him, maybe this is a lesson because
we need to learn how to go to bed without meditations. Meanwhile,
I found it on my phone, so it all works
out because I'm pathetic. What would you say, is your
parenting superpower? I know what it is you do. What
is it You've created like this incredible, loving safe household
where Penelope can come and say to you, let's repair
(46:57):
and not even it doesn't even and like, yes, you
went too far, but it doesn't even phase her because
she just like moved on and was talking about something else.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Yeah, I think I think my parenting superpower might just
be like I'm a good hang with them, like I
just want to hang out for anyone, to be honest.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
What questions would your teenagers definitely ask if they were
conducting this interview.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
I don't think they would be interested in any way,
shape or form in interviewing me.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
What is the most surprising phrase you've caught yourself saying
as a parent?
Speaker 2 (47:33):
I think that I often say the most annoying phrase,
which is what's your plan? What's your plan? And my
kids are like, our plan is too like it's not
saying I would.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
I say that every day? And now my kids also
say what is our plan? Every day?
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Mine don't think that it's productive, and it really like
it is so annoying to them because but then I
say it anyway, I can't help it.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
You did great on the lightning round except for the
first one. Would you like anymore? We're done?
Speaker 2 (48:04):
No? I just the worst parenting advice is probably to
do anything that is prescriptive, because it just doesn't work that.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Way unless it feels authentic to you.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Don't do it unless it feels authentic to you.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
I'll work for you now, I just won't go get
my master's. Thank you for listening to What in the Winkler.
Make sure to tell a friend thank you, Lisa
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