April 21, 2021 • 32 mins
You’ve been so focused on your new baby - but what will your new baby mean for your relationship? This week, Heidi and Emma are joined by Clinical Psychologist and Couples Therapist, Dr. Tracy Dalgleish. Together, they break down how to prepare for and maintain a healthy relationship after baby - from maintaining intimacy, to preventing resentment, and learning to communicate and work as a team to parent your new little bundle of joy.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Who baby, my baby, I need you, Oh how I
need you? What to expect? As a production of I
Heart Radio, I'm your host Heidi Murkoff, and I'm a
mom on a mission, a mission to help you know
what to expect every step of the way. Let's face it,
(00:25):
you've got baby on the brain, and whether that baby
is still in your belly already snuggled up in your arms,
you are one hundred percent obsessed and preoccupied. And that
makes sense. And both you and your partner are officially
or soon to be parents as little as they are.
(00:45):
Having a baby is a really big deal. But somewhere
in the back of your baby overloaded mind, you may
be wondering what happens to the two of us when
baby makes three. Will you still be a couple or
will you just become a couple of parents? Will you
live to love each other again in the same way.
The answer is yes, yes, one thousand times yes. But
(01:09):
like nurturing a baby, nurturing a relationship takes time, commitment,
and a lot of hard work. Happily, we're about to
make it seem a little bit easier. Today M and
I are talking relationships with Dr Tracy Dalglish Tracy as
a clinical psychologist and couple therapists who specializes in helping
(01:30):
couples postpartum with everything from maintaining intimacy to preventing resentment,
to learning to communicate and work as a team to
parent your new little bundle of joy. She's also a
mom of two and a partner in parenting as both
Emma and I are. So and well, let's start with you.
What was the hardest adjustment for you and Simon when
(01:53):
you brought Stevy home. You already have Lenox. Yeah, so
I feel like, in a sense that I was kind
of lucky without because I was a single m and
so Simon and I got knocked up after like four
months of dating, so we really didn't have that honeymoon
phase that a lot of couples have, and I'm always
kind of envious to the couples who get that time,
which we never got. Although I'm grateful for the fact
(02:16):
that I had Lennox, so even when we started dating,
you know, there was time issues and scheduling and so
we were kind of prepared in that sense. But I
really feel now, especially because it's been so rough for
this past year, that we really could have used that
alone time. For me, the hardest thing is making time
(02:37):
because at the end of the day, I am so tired,
and for us at least, like the relationship is always
kind of put on the back burner. We need to
build on reconnecting at the end of the day instead
of disconnecting because we're there's a lot of disconnection happening.
I mean, my husband works fourteen hours a day, so
he's exhausted. He gets into bed, he's out like a light.
(03:00):
And when he's not working, he's with the kids. And
that makes me so happy because personally, I would rather
have them have that time. Although it's kind of affecting
a relationship, and when it comes to a relationship that
kind of falls into the third party, like it's the
it's it's work kids relationship, and I feel like a
(03:20):
lot of people feel that way, and I want to
learn how to prioritize but also still have my kids
have their dad. Fortunately, for you and for all the
moms out there and dads, we have a professional in
the house, and I am so glad we do. Tracy,
thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you
so much for inviting me. I am so glad to
(03:42):
be sitting with both of you, Heidi and Emma. At
what point did you realize that you wanted to focus
on helping new parents with their relationships. You know, it's
interesting when I think about this question that we often
can say what leads us to certain areas of work
is often our own experience as a psychologist and couples therapists.
(04:03):
I was working within maternal mental health in in practice
already and helping women in the postpartum period, helping couples
after they had had children, But it wasn't truly until
I had my own child, my first one, that I
was just side tracked with, you know, just the disparity
of information that is being provided to women and couples
(04:27):
before having a baby. And I mean, I think so
many of us can relate to this one where you
go to your six week check up and they say,
all right, you're good, You're all clear, and I'm thinking
all clear for what I'm backing most of the time,
I'm sweating at night, I'm up in the middle of
the night, ready for what. And my partner and I,
I mean, we were both navigating the role changes are
(04:51):
changes and identities and then also all the changes in
our relationships. And while I knew all of the communication
tools and strategies, no one could have prepared me for
the mental load that came on after having our first child. Yeah,
so you didn't exactly know what to expect. No, I
feel like unrealistic expectations can be at the root of
(05:14):
relationships struggles that are ahead. They can almost forecast it,
because babies bring big changes, and there's changes in every
aspect of your life. They change your lifestyle, your schedule,
you're all of your relationships absolutely, and you know, we
think of all the things that we prepare for, We
prepare for the nursery, we prepare for labor, we do
(05:36):
the readings, and we rarely prepare our relationships. That's right.
So what are some of the most common issues that
you see in couples dealing with that change in relationship
when they bring a new baby home. What don't they expect? Yes, oh, yes, Well,
the first thing that comes to mind is navigating all
of the emotions that show up. So for many moms
(05:58):
they talk about well and both parents, the depression, the anxiety,
the blues, the baby blues that show up, you know,
the random tearfulness, and then also the rage that shows
up during that time for women as well. It's not
something that we are prepared for we talk about, and
the challenge with this is that we also don't always
(06:19):
know how to share our feelings or even ask for
our needs. So that is one of the top things
that I see show up. But on top of that,
which is the big piece I've already alluded to, is
navigating the roles and the demands that show up. You know,
if you are breastfeeding, have you talked about who's waking
up with baby to do the diaper change first before feeding?
(06:41):
Are you sharing the night feedings? You know, that's something
that we don't tend to talk about. And ultimately all
of this goes into our intimacy, right we do not
prepare the conversations around how will we maintain our physical closeness,
what will we do to remain close? And all of
this goes into the side. We just keep going because
(07:01):
we're in survival mode learning how to you know, rock
this baby and feed the baby. And then resentment starts
to build up, and many moms are so surprised to
experience the level of resentment towards a partner. My theory
is two old. One is the obvious. That's society talking. Still,
(07:22):
even though society is way behind the wheel, right, we
expect moms to be nurtures. We don't expect that necessarily
of dad's. And the problem I feel is number two,
that the dads aren't given the chance, that women have
a way of taking over, and then they sort of
step away from the changing table, they step away from everything,
(07:43):
they step away from the relationship because it's all baby
and mommy. Absolutely, yes, absolutely, those are two key pieces.
So what society tells us I hear from a lot
of mothers this internal guilt. I should be able to
do it all. I shouldn't burden my partner. They shouldn't
have to wake up in the middle of the night
with me, you know somehow, and you know, for a
(08:03):
good reason. We're nurturing and caring. But this is about
being that collaborative and co creating this family together. Huge piece.
But then the other piece that I love what you've
said they're harty is that dad's aren't given the chance.
And this is where maternal gatekeeping really comes into play. Oh,
I love that phrase. Yes, and it starts really early
(08:25):
on that you know, naturally, we start to maybe feel
uncomfortable feelings as we're seeing dad trying to navigate crying baby,
so we think, Okay, well baby's uncomfortable, I'm uncomfortable. Let
me jump in, rather than mom just taking that step
back and saying, Okay, my partner needs to learn to
do this as well, So I'm going to let them
do that, and maybe I will take this opportunity to
(08:48):
go have a shower or do something for myself. Trees,
I'm curious how you feel that the pandemic it's changed
(09:09):
so much about our lives, But how do you think
it's changed relationships for the better and for the worst. Yeah,
for for the for the better in some ways, So
when I'm thinking of when baby comes home, of all
of the new parents during this time, in some ways,
what has been really good about this opportunity is that
if your partner is working from home, that has been
a beautiful space that I've been able to tap into
(09:31):
with a lot of my clients as well. So if rage, anxiety,
or depression are showing up, can you just gently knock
on your partner's door and they can hold baby for
ten minutes while you go and do something for yourself.
That has been a huge benefit. Now downfall, unfortunately, though,
is that we know that to really feel good during
the postpartum period, especially in the first six months, we
(09:54):
need to have a strong social support network, and families
are just having this taken away from them right now
that you know you can't lean on you know, maybe
your mom coming to live with you for two weeks,
or friends dropping by and holding babies so you can
take the shower or make the meal for yourself. We're
just really having to go through this time on our own,
and as a result, parents are getting exhausted and they
(10:17):
are burnt out without being able to lean on anyone
for more support. Now that's true. And Emma, how about you.
I think part of the problem for you is that
you're both working at home, but Simon's one who's working
fourteen hours a day. Yeah, so you know, communication is
really important and I'm not the greatest communicator. I think
(10:39):
I'm communicating, but I'm thinking it and I expect him
to read my mind at all times, and then I explode.
So there needs to be away where I can communicate
in a healthy way. I'll get like so mad at
the end of the day. Because he's upstairs working and
I'm taking care of the kids. I'm doing school pickups,
I'm doing school with Lenox, I'm cleaning, I'm making dinner.
(11:02):
And then I start like throwing dishes in the sink,
you know, and I slammed doors and I slammed And
that's not good for my kids either, to see me
like that. So I think communication is so incredibly important,
and that's something that I obviously need to work on.
And can I normalize that that nobody really teaches us
the communication piece. We don't learn what to do with
our feelings and how to express them and get them out.
(11:23):
And you know, I posted something recently about when you
say I feel like you never help out, it's actually
not a feeling word. But many people, for they were saying, oh,
that's a light bulb moment, right, okay, versus the saying
I'm feeling overwhelmed, I'm feeling frustrated, I need help. We
(11:44):
just don't learn how to do that. I appreciate that,
that's that's very true. How does Emma and how do
other couples work on communicating before the baby even arrives
on the scene, Yes, before the baby even arrives. Okay,
so we need to make sure looking at how we
are communicating, are we getting into negative communication patterns? So
(12:05):
those are the patterns of blame and criticism, defensiveness, Are
we um contemptuous towards our partner? Or are we stonewalling?
Those communication patterns lead to us into negative interaction cycles.
And that looks like as I'm pursuing you, as I'm
approaching you for attention and affection, one partner might step back,
(12:26):
and as that partner step back, you start to knock
on the door louder, Hello, I need help, where are you?
And the louder you get, the other person withdraws more.
And so couples get into these patterns that are often
there even before baby comes, but we haven't learned to
necessarily get out of them beforehand. So that would be
the first thing that we really need to work on beforehand. So, am,
(12:49):
how does that sound to you? That sounds that sounds doable?
And yeah, that does sound too. I feel like I
feel like empowered, Like it's a new day, it's a
new dawn, it's a new day. I have an example
for this, you know, I'm I'm sure you can relate
to this party. I know you can relate to this
as well. As it's kind of like a month in advance.
You get the party invite and you're like, yeah, the party.
I can't wait to go to the party. Right the
(13:09):
day of the party, you think, oh gosh, why did
I say yes, I don't want to go, and so
you said, all right, I'm gonna go. Anyways, So you
go to the party, and then afterwards you say, oh,
I'm so glad I went to the Party's not so
true into missing in our relationships is exactly that. So
even though you know, I had one couple that described
(13:29):
this perfectly. The male partner would go and give her
a hug and she's like, I don't want to hug.
I don't want to hug, and he would say, I'm
just gonna hold you. I'm gonna keep squeezing you, and
after a few seconds she would let herself release into
it exactly, And it's very much like a toddler, like
when they're having a tantrum. Sometimes giving them a big
giant hug, even if you're mad at them and they're
(13:50):
mad at you, it communicates in a way that words can't,
and it melts down that resentment or that anger, and
in moment you feel close and connected. But there's also
the issue of time. Like big time, it's hard to
find time. Jersey, what's some advice you have for couples
(14:12):
who feel like they don't have the time. Yeah, how
do you're talking about? The number one thing I say
to couples, which is getting intentional to schedule it. It
doesn't have to be rigid, but it's an agreement that
you know, every Sunday night we have a thirty minute
connection time where we have no distractions. It's the getting
out of the all or nothing. Right. We can't take
(14:34):
the weekend away just the two of us, the adventure,
the week long adventure, so we're not going to do
anything it. No, it's more about those small, manageable pieces
that you can do every single day, and I think
those do have more meaning even than the weekend away,
which comes with so many expectations like vacation. You have
(14:54):
to have sex so many times a day and have
all this intimacy. But in fact, if you who actually
make time for it at home and it's just twenty minutes,
that can mean more, at least cumulatively. Now, of course
this says bring us to intimacy. And it's funny how
people use it as a euphemism for sex, But I
think of sex as sex and intimacy as something that
(15:17):
is all the time. One of the things I think
is so important around this is, first, let's let's redefine sex.
And how do I agree with what you're saying around
that is that it is not just this sex as
an intercourse. It is more about this intimacy of let's
think of all the ways we can be intimate, physical intimacy,
sexual intimacy, which is intercourse or outer course. Right, there's
pleasure on the outside of our bodies as well, emotional
(15:40):
intimacy sharing our thoughts and feelings, intellectual intimacy, which is
let's listen to a podcast or read a book together
and share our ideas over that. Or my favorite and
my go to is the experiential intimacy. We painted our
main floor during COVID and we felt so close doing
this project together. Right, that's so cute. I love that
(16:02):
in the postpartum period, in that first year, it doesn't
have to be sex, but instead let's find the other
ways that we can bridge that connection. Absolutely, I agree.
I think that for me though, when you don't have
sex as often as you used to, it's a little
bit like stressful. What's interesting, though, is that for me
during that newborn stage, the baby stage, that was the
(16:24):
easy stage. And now that I have a toddler, of
my vaginas shut. It's closed up because I'm tired. Absolutely.
And what we're talking about there is responsive desire versus
spontaneous desire. And it is incredibly hard to have spontaneous
desire when you are carrying a backpack of bricks on
and inside of that backpack is the number of diapers
(16:45):
you've changed, the running around toddler, and the tantrums and
the melting down, and then the laundry and all of
that on top of it. And then you go to
the bedroom at the end of the day you have
no energy left, and you think, somehow I'm going to
be lubricated and excited and and you can with a
backpack of bricks and you look over and there is
the laundry basket full of clothes that you didn't get
(17:07):
to do. So spontaneous desire does tend to fade as
we move through this stage. But what's important is we
remember the responsive desire which is if you get into
bed and you lie your bodies next to each other
and you start to touch each other in ways that
feel good, then assault your body is going to respond.
And I think that's also important that we remember that
(17:28):
as women, that is something that we are more likely
to experience compared to compared to men in heterosexual relationship. Yeah,
that's true, you know, but I think that dad's also
experience postpartum, you know, baby blues. They they have changes
in their hormones that you know, lower test saucetone. They're
feelings sleep deprived, not to the extent maybe that we are,
(17:52):
but it does changing too. Yeah, their lobito might not
be what it was. But what do we do as women?
We assume that it's us, like we're not sexy anymore, right, right.
I think that people need to be more willing to
have dialogues around this, and that that dialogue is not
something that's personal. And that is one of the hardest
(18:13):
things that I see for couples when I come into
my office is they just do not know how to
talk about sex as something that we can create together,
but that it's not personal, and that we can make
space for both people to have an experience, and if
one partner wants it five times a week and the
other one is okay with one once a month, maybe
even we've got to find that middle space together and
(18:36):
how we're going to work through it because we need
to consider both people. You know, it's really interesting that
oftentimes when a mom does say to her partner in session,
I don't want you to come near me. I don't
want to give you hugs because I'm worried that if
I let you hug me, you're going to want sex.
And so then we get this assumption or this perception
(18:56):
that any touch from my partner is going to leave
to them wanting sex. And the male partner will often say,
I just want to be close to you, I just
want to hold you. That it is not always me
coming in for sex. It is let's build closeness. And
it puts a lot of pressure on him as well,
(19:16):
right if he thinks that, you know, he brings sex
to the table, you know, and it has to be sex. So, Ama,
how do you feel about going to give Simon a hug?
I'm such a I don't know, like I think that
you and I are very different because I think that
sometimes like when I'm mad, like I want to stay mad,
(19:37):
and I want to have that reason to be mad
and to like hold a grudge and to have him
like gravel, and that's such a horrible quality. But I
feel like, so if I give in and I give
that hug, it's like I'm letting that go, and maybe
I'm not ready to let it go. What if you
could have both, Emma, What if you could still have
your mad feelings and you can still have your partner.
(19:59):
I think I think that would be great. I think, honestly,
it would probably make me a much happier, less dressed out,
angry person if I would release some of the anger
and let go of things easier. I think what you're
speaking to, Emma is the sense that what we really
need to feel is being seen from our partners. We
really want to know that they see what we're feeling.
(20:19):
And sometimes our partners come in and say, Okay, you're struggling,
how can I fix it? How can I problem solve,
Let me do this, I'll do that, and they really
miss what it is that we're feeling. And exactly when
they miss it, then we start to dig in even further.
Rather than being able to communicate them. Can you see
just the feeling that I'm having right now? I just
need you to see that I'm angry about this. Yeah.
(20:41):
And I think men and women generally are wired differently.
And my husband obviously does not think the same way
I do, just like he doesn't understand necessarily like why
I feel a certain way. Sometimes I'm like understood, don't
understand why he feels a certain way. Yeah, And I'm
curious to hear what you have to say about that, Tracy.
If we go to the search. So the research by
(21:01):
John Gottmann's group, they have studied over a three thousand couples.
They've hooked men and women, heterosexual couples up to all
of the measures their heart rates, sweat monitoring, and what
we see is that when a couple starts to talk
about a heated discussion, men's markers actually go up much
higher and quicker than a female's marker. So they are
(21:24):
more prone to being to feeling flooded and overwhelmed in disagreements.
And so then they because of that, because of this
rush of emotion, you know, increased heart rate, shortness of breath,
more sweating, they are more likely to be the ones
to shut down in conversations and to not talk about
their emotions. And if we also then look at the
attachment research, we do tend to see that more men
(21:47):
tend to be avoidantly attached, which means it's not that
they don't have those feelings, is that they feel those
feelings they are overwhelming, and then they shut them down.
And men are more likely to compartmentalize as well. You know,
I see that clinically in my experience. Your partner might
have a big disagreement with you and then you're still
thinking about it, but then they come home and you're wondering,
(22:09):
why aren't they saying anything about it? Because they've compartmentalized it.
They're like, okay, yeah, she's smiling, We're okay, okay, we're good.
Let's keep going forward. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly yeah. And
then the question there's, so how do we start this dialogue?
Because if we come to them in this place of
escalation and anger and why aren't you talking about this,
(22:30):
then that's just going to shut them right down even more.
And again that's kind of that relationship cycle that we
so commonly see happen. That's right, So you know, we
have other moms and we expect community who had a
(22:54):
lot of questions. I hear it mainly from women who
are assuming this is true, less so from guys who
have experienced it. But do you have any tips for
rebuilding attraction? I don't necessarily believe this happens, but that
you know a man who witnesses, you know, a baby
(23:16):
coming out of a vagina feels differently about the vagina.
First of all, how much of a man miss do
you think that is? Or do you hear it quite
a lot as well? And what can you do about that?
I actually haven't really heard that. I've heard more from
men that birth thing is an incredibly vulnerable experience where
partners feel closer together. They do need to do some
(23:37):
of their own processing. But definitely I don't tend to
hear that this has changed it. But what I think
is more relevant here is how your partner sees you
viewing yourself and how you feel towards your postpartum body. Now,
that's very true. Yeah, so we are perceiving ourselves. That's
why I think it's more of a perception thing or
on a woman's side, than it is an actual man thing.
(23:59):
Though I've heard women say that their partners have expressed
that I have to. For me, I was so nervous
about because I had literally I hadn't known him that
long before I got pregnant, and I said to the
nurse when I was pushing, I was like, he can't
see me poop. That was my interpretation of him, will
never look at me the same way. That's so much
(24:21):
pressure on you. And I wonder in this situation of
you know, for you to feel good about yourself, are
you taking a mirror and looking at your valva and
looking to see how things have changed, and are you
spending time loving this area of your body so that
then when your partner then joins you can they also
see your excitement about sharing your body with them. And
(24:43):
I think that builds more intimacy than just don't look
at it. Yeah, no, I know. I feel like I
have a huge, like wallop about my business. After having
two kids, I don't feel as confident. And we know
that sex doesn't happen between the legs, right, it happens
between the ear. So true, but what do women do
about feeling insecure in their own postpartum skin? You know,
(25:09):
one of the things we haven't really tapped on yet
today is that piece around our own identity? So how
are you as mom, as a new mom, nurturing your identity?
Are you going out to see your friends, are you
going out for walks? Do you do things that nurture
who you are? And do you feel good because that
also brings you that whole self rather than just viewing
(25:29):
that there's something about your body. So I would think
that that's one of the most important things to start with.
But then also goodness like just looking at our bodies
and seeing what our bodies have done for us, finding
clothes that fit us and make us feel attractive no
matter what side, no matter what size, not trying to
fit into those old jeans. Right, your body has changed,
but you still need to feel good day to day
(25:51):
rather than waiting for some magical moment where maybe those
genes will fit, or maybe your thing is masscary each
day or something that's going to help you to feel good. Ultimately,
at the end of the day, it is our job
to communicate our thoughts and feelings, opinions, and our needs,
and we're responsible for how we communicate that, but we're
not responsible for how our partner feels when we communicate that.
(26:16):
That brings up another question from the community, which is,
how do you deal with that resentment tracy that you
talked about when one parent is doing more than the other.
We don't want to go to our partners and say
I resent you, this is awful what's going on between us?
That will just send alarm bells off for them. But
instead we want to start making our unspoken needs spoken.
(26:40):
We want to be able to offload those things and
sometimes they might be small pieces to start with, but
it's about being consistent and continuing to have our partner
step in. So one mom said her husband says he
has postpartum depression and she wants to know how she
can help him. Yeah, this is to tough one. You know.
(27:01):
I think sometimes what women do is we start to
feel uncomfortable when we see our partners struggling, whether it's
with depression or anxiety, and so what we want to
do is we start to jump in there to fix
and problem solve. And this really isn't a helpful position
to take when our partners are struggling. It alleviates more
of our own anxiety and more than helping our partner out.
(27:23):
So one of the most important things we can do
around mental health when our partners are struggling is really
just to hold space for our partner, which means I
see you, I see that you're struggling, and I'm going
to ask you how you're doing and make space for
you to tell me what your struggle is. I'm not
going to dismiss it or problem solve it. I'm going
to make that space. But what I think is really
(27:44):
important here is that we don't get into a space
of enabling that de activation that comes with depression, so
that we do still want our partners to be part
of babies life. Yes, one partner could have depression and
we can support them, but we do still want to
facilitate connecting with our values and that's really important. One
(28:05):
therapy that definitely helps with feelings of depression or anxiety
is that closeness between you and your baby. Not inevitably,
but sometimes it definitely does. Absolutely that's so important. And
then asking your partners to come along with us. So
if we're taking baby for a walk, okay, you wear baby,
let's go for a walk together. Rather than kind of
that top down of saying you need therapy, you need
(28:26):
to go do this, you need to look after yourself
and then have a different way of processing and dealing
with depression. Right, so they may mask it in other
ways and may need you to help them get help. Right,
And that comes back to that, you know, what were
the conversations we're going to have before baby comes that
can we talk about what are we going to do
(28:48):
when one partner struggles? How will we signal to each other?
How will we support each other when those big emotions
come up? Personally? For me, you know we met, we
got engaged. After three months, I got pregnanti formant, and
you know that time that we got to know each other.
In that formant, I looked great, like I always like,
it was the very very early stage of the relationship.
(29:10):
So you dressed up, you look amazing and blah blah blah.
And now like, because I feel like, and this is
gonna sound horrible, but I feel like he got jipped.
Like I feel like it was like false advertisement because
I had all my ship together and now it's like,
which comes back to that, how do you define your
worth here as a And that's that's my bad. Yeah,
(29:31):
I'm a very I'm very insecure, But Emma, that in
that sense though, that anxiety there with that insecurity. It
is something that women experience that you know, they attribute
this distance between us because I had a baby, when actually,
oftentimes there are a lot of other things that are happening,
not just because you know, you've been wearing mom pants
(29:52):
for a year or whenever it is right that that
Actually there's a lot of other things. And what I
do hear male partners often saying is they're like, you
know you weren't sleeping, so I didn't approach you because
I wanted to give you space. But meanwhile, the other partner,
who feels insecure and anxious is saying, I thought it
was all me. You know, it must have been me.
(30:12):
There must be something wrong with me, And so we're
making um that misattribution there to why we're not having sex.
How do we bridge this gap? Like it really is
this big gap? And I truly do wish that if
anyone listening, can you know, if you're struggling in this,
you don't have to keep waiting. You can do things
to help yourself. Don't keep waiting, because the longer you wait,
(30:33):
the bigger that gap grows, and the more that resentment
build and we just don't want that to happen for years.
So how do you bridge that gap? Like, you know,
just touch each other, like come back and say, can
I just rub your arm today? Go back to those
hugs and take the pressure off that. There's got to
be some way that we can get intentional around what
(30:55):
feels good for each other. That's the ticket. So Emma
and many others need to know where to find you.
The main space that I hang out in is Instagram,
So I'm over there Dr dot chc D and on
my website Dr chacy d dot com. I have all
kinds of free resources there, and you can also find
(31:16):
my podcast and my online space where I help couples
to and feel empowered and improve their relationships. So it
reach out to me. I love getting social on there.
That's that's what it's really far. Thank you. I've learned
a lot. Thank you so much for having me here.
Thanks Hidi, Thank you, Emma, baby love my baby love.
(31:41):
I need you, Oh how I need you. Thanks for listening.
Remember I'm always here for you. What to expect is
always here for you. We're all in this together. For
more on what you heard on today's episode, visit What
to Expect dot com slash podcast. You can also check
out What to Expect when You're Expecting, What to Expect
(32:04):
the First Year, and the What to Expect app. And
we want to hear from you. Connect with us on
our community message board or on our social media. You
can find me at Heidi Murkoff and Emma at Emma
bing wt E and of course at What to Expect.
Baby Love is performed by Riley Peterer. What to Expect
(32:27):
is a production of I Heart Radio. From more shows
from I Heart Radio, check out the I Heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
In my Arms, what Don't Just Stay Leja Needa, Baby
(32:47):
Baby
Who baby, my baby, I need you, Oh how I
need you? What to expect? As a production of I
Heart Radio, I'm your host Heidi Murkoff, and I'm a
mom on a mission, a mission to help you know
what to expect every step of the way. Let's face it,
(00:25):
you've got baby on the brain, and whether that baby
is still in your belly already snuggled up in your arms,
you are one hundred percent obsessed and preoccupied. And that
makes sense. And both you and your partner are officially
or soon to be parents as little as they are.
(00:45):
Having a baby is a really big deal. But somewhere
in the back of your baby overloaded mind, you may
be wondering what happens to the two of us when
baby makes three. Will you still be a couple or
will you just become a couple of parents? Will you
live to love each other again in the same way.
The answer is yes, yes, one thousand times yes. But
(01:09):
like nurturing a baby, nurturing a relationship takes time, commitment,
and a lot of hard work. Happily, we're about to
make it seem a little bit easier. Today M and
I are talking relationships with Dr Tracy Dalglish Tracy as
a clinical psychologist and couple therapists who specializes in helping
(01:30):
couples postpartum with everything from maintaining intimacy to preventing resentment,
to learning to communicate and work as a team to
parent your new little bundle of joy. She's also a
mom of two and a partner in parenting as both
Emma and I are. So and well, let's start with you.
What was the hardest adjustment for you and Simon when
(01:53):
you brought Stevy home. You already have Lenox. Yeah, so
I feel like, in a sense that I was kind
of lucky without because I was a single m and
so Simon and I got knocked up after like four
months of dating, so we really didn't have that honeymoon
phase that a lot of couples have, and I'm always
kind of envious to the couples who get that time,
which we never got. Although I'm grateful for the fact
(02:16):
that I had Lennox, so even when we started dating,
you know, there was time issues and scheduling and so
we were kind of prepared in that sense. But I
really feel now, especially because it's been so rough for
this past year, that we really could have used that
alone time. For me, the hardest thing is making time
(02:37):
because at the end of the day, I am so tired,
and for us at least, like the relationship is always
kind of put on the back burner. We need to
build on reconnecting at the end of the day instead
of disconnecting because we're there's a lot of disconnection happening.
I mean, my husband works fourteen hours a day, so
he's exhausted. He gets into bed, he's out like a light.
(03:00):
And when he's not working, he's with the kids. And
that makes me so happy because personally, I would rather
have them have that time. Although it's kind of affecting
a relationship, and when it comes to a relationship that
kind of falls into the third party, like it's the
it's it's work kids relationship, and I feel like a
(03:20):
lot of people feel that way, and I want to
learn how to prioritize but also still have my kids
have their dad. Fortunately, for you and for all the
moms out there and dads, we have a professional in
the house, and I am so glad we do. Tracy,
thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you
so much for inviting me. I am so glad to
(03:42):
be sitting with both of you, Heidi and Emma. At
what point did you realize that you wanted to focus
on helping new parents with their relationships. You know, it's
interesting when I think about this question that we often
can say what leads us to certain areas of work
is often our own experience as a psychologist and couples therapists.
(04:03):
I was working within maternal mental health in in practice
already and helping women in the postpartum period, helping couples
after they had had children, But it wasn't truly until
I had my own child, my first one, that I
was just side tracked with, you know, just the disparity
of information that is being provided to women and couples
(04:27):
before having a baby. And I mean, I think so
many of us can relate to this one where you
go to your six week check up and they say,
all right, you're good, You're all clear, and I'm thinking
all clear for what I'm backing most of the time,
I'm sweating at night, I'm up in the middle of
the night, ready for what. And my partner and I,
I mean, we were both navigating the role changes are
(04:51):
changes and identities and then also all the changes in
our relationships. And while I knew all of the communication
tools and strategies, no one could have prepared me for
the mental load that came on after having our first child. Yeah,
so you didn't exactly know what to expect. No, I
feel like unrealistic expectations can be at the root of
(05:14):
relationships struggles that are ahead. They can almost forecast it,
because babies bring big changes, and there's changes in every
aspect of your life. They change your lifestyle, your schedule,
you're all of your relationships absolutely, and you know, we
think of all the things that we prepare for, We
prepare for the nursery, we prepare for labor, we do
(05:36):
the readings, and we rarely prepare our relationships. That's right.
So what are some of the most common issues that
you see in couples dealing with that change in relationship
when they bring a new baby home. What don't they expect? Yes, oh, yes, Well,
the first thing that comes to mind is navigating all
of the emotions that show up. So for many moms
(05:58):
they talk about well and both parents, the depression, the anxiety,
the blues, the baby blues that show up, you know,
the random tearfulness, and then also the rage that shows
up during that time for women as well. It's not
something that we are prepared for we talk about, and
the challenge with this is that we also don't always
(06:19):
know how to share our feelings or even ask for
our needs. So that is one of the top things
that I see show up. But on top of that,
which is the big piece I've already alluded to, is
navigating the roles and the demands that show up. You know,
if you are breastfeeding, have you talked about who's waking
up with baby to do the diaper change first before feeding?
(06:41):
Are you sharing the night feedings? You know, that's something
that we don't tend to talk about. And ultimately all
of this goes into our intimacy, right we do not
prepare the conversations around how will we maintain our physical closeness,
what will we do to remain close? And all of
this goes into the side. We just keep going because
(07:01):
we're in survival mode learning how to you know, rock
this baby and feed the baby. And then resentment starts
to build up, and many moms are so surprised to
experience the level of resentment towards a partner. My theory
is two old. One is the obvious. That's society talking. Still,
(07:22):
even though society is way behind the wheel, right, we
expect moms to be nurtures. We don't expect that necessarily
of dad's. And the problem I feel is number two,
that the dads aren't given the chance, that women have
a way of taking over, and then they sort of
step away from the changing table, they step away from everything,
(07:43):
they step away from the relationship because it's all baby
and mommy. Absolutely, yes, absolutely, those are two key pieces.
So what society tells us I hear from a lot
of mothers this internal guilt. I should be able to
do it all. I shouldn't burden my partner. They shouldn't
have to wake up in the middle of the night
with me, you know somehow, and you know, for a
(08:03):
good reason. We're nurturing and caring. But this is about
being that collaborative and co creating this family together. Huge piece.
But then the other piece that I love what you've
said they're harty is that dad's aren't given the chance.
And this is where maternal gatekeeping really comes into play. Oh,
I love that phrase. Yes, and it starts really early
(08:25):
on that you know, naturally, we start to maybe feel
uncomfortable feelings as we're seeing dad trying to navigate crying baby,
so we think, Okay, well baby's uncomfortable, I'm uncomfortable. Let
me jump in, rather than mom just taking that step
back and saying, Okay, my partner needs to learn to
do this as well, So I'm going to let them
do that, and maybe I will take this opportunity to
(08:48):
go have a shower or do something for myself. Trees,
I'm curious how you feel that the pandemic it's changed
(09:09):
so much about our lives, But how do you think
it's changed relationships for the better and for the worst. Yeah,
for for the for the better in some ways, So
when I'm thinking of when baby comes home, of all
of the new parents during this time, in some ways,
what has been really good about this opportunity is that
if your partner is working from home, that has been
a beautiful space that I've been able to tap into
(09:31):
with a lot of my clients as well. So if rage, anxiety,
or depression are showing up, can you just gently knock
on your partner's door and they can hold baby for
ten minutes while you go and do something for yourself.
That has been a huge benefit. Now downfall, unfortunately, though,
is that we know that to really feel good during
the postpartum period, especially in the first six months, we
(09:54):
need to have a strong social support network, and families
are just having this taken away from them right now
that you know you can't lean on you know, maybe
your mom coming to live with you for two weeks,
or friends dropping by and holding babies so you can
take the shower or make the meal for yourself. We're
just really having to go through this time on our own,
and as a result, parents are getting exhausted and they
(10:17):
are burnt out without being able to lean on anyone
for more support. Now that's true. And Emma, how about you.
I think part of the problem for you is that
you're both working at home, but Simon's one who's working
fourteen hours a day. Yeah, so you know, communication is
really important and I'm not the greatest communicator. I think
(10:39):
I'm communicating, but I'm thinking it and I expect him
to read my mind at all times, and then I explode.
So there needs to be away where I can communicate
in a healthy way. I'll get like so mad at
the end of the day. Because he's upstairs working and
I'm taking care of the kids. I'm doing school pickups,
I'm doing school with Lenox, I'm cleaning, I'm making dinner.
(11:02):
And then I start like throwing dishes in the sink,
you know, and I slammed doors and I slammed And
that's not good for my kids either, to see me
like that. So I think communication is so incredibly important,
and that's something that I obviously need to work on.
And can I normalize that that nobody really teaches us
the communication piece. We don't learn what to do with
our feelings and how to express them and get them out.
(11:23):
And you know, I posted something recently about when you
say I feel like you never help out, it's actually
not a feeling word. But many people, for they were saying, oh,
that's a light bulb moment, right, okay, versus the saying
I'm feeling overwhelmed, I'm feeling frustrated, I need help. We
(11:44):
just don't learn how to do that. I appreciate that,
that's that's very true. How does Emma and how do
other couples work on communicating before the baby even arrives
on the scene, Yes, before the baby even arrives. Okay,
so we need to make sure looking at how we
are communicating, are we getting into negative communication patterns? So
(12:05):
those are the patterns of blame and criticism, defensiveness, Are
we um contemptuous towards our partner? Or are we stonewalling?
Those communication patterns lead to us into negative interaction cycles.
And that looks like as I'm pursuing you, as I'm
approaching you for attention and affection, one partner might step back,
(12:26):
and as that partner step back, you start to knock
on the door louder, Hello, I need help, where are you?
And the louder you get, the other person withdraws more.
And so couples get into these patterns that are often
there even before baby comes, but we haven't learned to
necessarily get out of them beforehand. So that would be
the first thing that we really need to work on beforehand. So, am,
(12:49):
how does that sound to you? That sounds that sounds doable?
And yeah, that does sound too. I feel like I
feel like empowered, Like it's a new day, it's a
new dawn, it's a new day. I have an example
for this, you know, I'm I'm sure you can relate
to this party. I know you can relate to this
as well. As it's kind of like a month in advance.
You get the party invite and you're like, yeah, the party.
I can't wait to go to the party. Right the
(13:09):
day of the party, you think, oh gosh, why did
I say yes, I don't want to go, and so
you said, all right, I'm gonna go. Anyways, So you
go to the party, and then afterwards you say, oh,
I'm so glad I went to the Party's not so
true into missing in our relationships is exactly that. So
even though you know, I had one couple that described
(13:29):
this perfectly. The male partner would go and give her
a hug and she's like, I don't want to hug.
I don't want to hug, and he would say, I'm
just gonna hold you. I'm gonna keep squeezing you, and
after a few seconds she would let herself release into
it exactly, And it's very much like a toddler, like
when they're having a tantrum. Sometimes giving them a big
giant hug, even if you're mad at them and they're
(13:50):
mad at you, it communicates in a way that words can't,
and it melts down that resentment or that anger, and
in moment you feel close and connected. But there's also
the issue of time. Like big time, it's hard to
find time. Jersey, what's some advice you have for couples
(14:12):
who feel like they don't have the time. Yeah, how
do you're talking about? The number one thing I say
to couples, which is getting intentional to schedule it. It
doesn't have to be rigid, but it's an agreement that
you know, every Sunday night we have a thirty minute
connection time where we have no distractions. It's the getting
out of the all or nothing. Right. We can't take
(14:34):
the weekend away just the two of us, the adventure,
the week long adventure, so we're not going to do
anything it. No, it's more about those small, manageable pieces
that you can do every single day, and I think
those do have more meaning even than the weekend away,
which comes with so many expectations like vacation. You have
(14:54):
to have sex so many times a day and have
all this intimacy. But in fact, if you who actually
make time for it at home and it's just twenty minutes,
that can mean more, at least cumulatively. Now, of course
this says bring us to intimacy. And it's funny how
people use it as a euphemism for sex, But I
think of sex as sex and intimacy as something that
(15:17):
is all the time. One of the things I think
is so important around this is, first, let's let's redefine sex.
And how do I agree with what you're saying around
that is that it is not just this sex as
an intercourse. It is more about this intimacy of let's
think of all the ways we can be intimate, physical intimacy,
sexual intimacy, which is intercourse or outer course. Right, there's
pleasure on the outside of our bodies as well, emotional
(15:40):
intimacy sharing our thoughts and feelings, intellectual intimacy, which is
let's listen to a podcast or read a book together
and share our ideas over that. Or my favorite and
my go to is the experiential intimacy. We painted our
main floor during COVID and we felt so close doing
this project together. Right, that's so cute. I love that
(16:02):
in the postpartum period, in that first year, it doesn't
have to be sex, but instead let's find the other
ways that we can bridge that connection. Absolutely, I agree.
I think that for me though, when you don't have
sex as often as you used to, it's a little
bit like stressful. What's interesting, though, is that for me
during that newborn stage, the baby stage, that was the
(16:24):
easy stage. And now that I have a toddler, of
my vaginas shut. It's closed up because I'm tired. Absolutely.
And what we're talking about there is responsive desire versus
spontaneous desire. And it is incredibly hard to have spontaneous
desire when you are carrying a backpack of bricks on
and inside of that backpack is the number of diapers
(16:45):
you've changed, the running around toddler, and the tantrums and
the melting down, and then the laundry and all of
that on top of it. And then you go to
the bedroom at the end of the day you have
no energy left, and you think, somehow I'm going to
be lubricated and excited and and you can with a
backpack of bricks and you look over and there is
the laundry basket full of clothes that you didn't get
(17:07):
to do. So spontaneous desire does tend to fade as
we move through this stage. But what's important is we
remember the responsive desire which is if you get into
bed and you lie your bodies next to each other
and you start to touch each other in ways that
feel good, then assault your body is going to respond.
And I think that's also important that we remember that
(17:28):
as women, that is something that we are more likely
to experience compared to compared to men in heterosexual relationship. Yeah,
that's true, you know, but I think that dad's also
experience postpartum, you know, baby blues. They they have changes
in their hormones that you know, lower test saucetone. They're
feelings sleep deprived, not to the extent maybe that we are,
(17:52):
but it does changing too. Yeah, their lobito might not
be what it was. But what do we do as women?
We assume that it's us, like we're not sexy anymore, right, right.
I think that people need to be more willing to
have dialogues around this, and that that dialogue is not
something that's personal. And that is one of the hardest
(18:13):
things that I see for couples when I come into
my office is they just do not know how to
talk about sex as something that we can create together,
but that it's not personal, and that we can make
space for both people to have an experience, and if
one partner wants it five times a week and the
other one is okay with one once a month, maybe
even we've got to find that middle space together and
(18:36):
how we're going to work through it because we need
to consider both people. You know, it's really interesting that
oftentimes when a mom does say to her partner in session,
I don't want you to come near me. I don't
want to give you hugs because I'm worried that if
I let you hug me, you're going to want sex.
And so then we get this assumption or this perception
(18:56):
that any touch from my partner is going to leave
to them wanting sex. And the male partner will often say,
I just want to be close to you, I just
want to hold you. That it is not always me
coming in for sex. It is let's build closeness. And
it puts a lot of pressure on him as well,
(19:16):
right if he thinks that, you know, he brings sex
to the table, you know, and it has to be sex. So, Ama,
how do you feel about going to give Simon a hug?
I'm such a I don't know, like I think that
you and I are very different because I think that
sometimes like when I'm mad, like I want to stay mad,
(19:37):
and I want to have that reason to be mad
and to like hold a grudge and to have him
like gravel, and that's such a horrible quality. But I
feel like, so if I give in and I give
that hug, it's like I'm letting that go, and maybe
I'm not ready to let it go. What if you
could have both, Emma, What if you could still have
your mad feelings and you can still have your partner.
(19:59):
I think I think that would be great. I think, honestly,
it would probably make me a much happier, less dressed out,
angry person if I would release some of the anger
and let go of things easier. I think what you're
speaking to, Emma is the sense that what we really
need to feel is being seen from our partners. We
really want to know that they see what we're feeling.
(20:19):
And sometimes our partners come in and say, Okay, you're struggling,
how can I fix it? How can I problem solve,
Let me do this, I'll do that, and they really
miss what it is that we're feeling. And exactly when
they miss it, then we start to dig in even further.
Rather than being able to communicate them. Can you see
just the feeling that I'm having right now? I just
need you to see that I'm angry about this. Yeah.
(20:41):
And I think men and women generally are wired differently.
And my husband obviously does not think the same way
I do, just like he doesn't understand necessarily like why
I feel a certain way. Sometimes I'm like understood, don't
understand why he feels a certain way. Yeah, And I'm
curious to hear what you have to say about that, Tracy.
If we go to the search. So the research by
(21:01):
John Gottmann's group, they have studied over a three thousand couples.
They've hooked men and women, heterosexual couples up to all
of the measures their heart rates, sweat monitoring, and what
we see is that when a couple starts to talk
about a heated discussion, men's markers actually go up much
higher and quicker than a female's marker. So they are
(21:24):
more prone to being to feeling flooded and overwhelmed in disagreements.
And so then they because of that, because of this
rush of emotion, you know, increased heart rate, shortness of breath,
more sweating, they are more likely to be the ones
to shut down in conversations and to not talk about
their emotions. And if we also then look at the
attachment research, we do tend to see that more men
(21:47):
tend to be avoidantly attached, which means it's not that
they don't have those feelings, is that they feel those
feelings they are overwhelming, and then they shut them down.
And men are more likely to compartmentalize as well. You know,
I see that clinically in my experience. Your partner might
have a big disagreement with you and then you're still
thinking about it, but then they come home and you're wondering,
(22:09):
why aren't they saying anything about it? Because they've compartmentalized it.
They're like, okay, yeah, she's smiling, We're okay, okay, we're good.
Let's keep going forward. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly yeah. And
then the question there's, so how do we start this dialogue?
Because if we come to them in this place of
escalation and anger and why aren't you talking about this,
(22:30):
then that's just going to shut them right down even more.
And again that's kind of that relationship cycle that we
so commonly see happen. That's right, So you know, we
have other moms and we expect community who had a
(22:54):
lot of questions. I hear it mainly from women who
are assuming this is true, less so from guys who
have experienced it. But do you have any tips for
rebuilding attraction? I don't necessarily believe this happens, but that
you know a man who witnesses, you know, a baby
(23:16):
coming out of a vagina feels differently about the vagina.
First of all, how much of a man miss do
you think that is? Or do you hear it quite
a lot as well? And what can you do about that?
I actually haven't really heard that. I've heard more from
men that birth thing is an incredibly vulnerable experience where
partners feel closer together. They do need to do some
(23:37):
of their own processing. But definitely I don't tend to
hear that this has changed it. But what I think
is more relevant here is how your partner sees you
viewing yourself and how you feel towards your postpartum body. Now,
that's very true. Yeah, so we are perceiving ourselves. That's
why I think it's more of a perception thing or
on a woman's side, than it is an actual man thing.
(23:59):
Though I've heard women say that their partners have expressed
that I have to. For me, I was so nervous
about because I had literally I hadn't known him that
long before I got pregnant, and I said to the
nurse when I was pushing, I was like, he can't
see me poop. That was my interpretation of him, will
never look at me the same way. That's so much
(24:21):
pressure on you. And I wonder in this situation of
you know, for you to feel good about yourself, are
you taking a mirror and looking at your valva and
looking to see how things have changed, and are you
spending time loving this area of your body so that
then when your partner then joins you can they also
see your excitement about sharing your body with them. And
(24:43):
I think that builds more intimacy than just don't look
at it. Yeah, no, I know. I feel like I
have a huge, like wallop about my business. After having
two kids, I don't feel as confident. And we know
that sex doesn't happen between the legs, right, it happens
between the ear. So true, but what do women do
about feeling insecure in their own postpartum skin? You know,
(25:09):
one of the things we haven't really tapped on yet
today is that piece around our own identity? So how
are you as mom, as a new mom, nurturing your identity?
Are you going out to see your friends, are you
going out for walks? Do you do things that nurture
who you are? And do you feel good because that
also brings you that whole self rather than just viewing
(25:29):
that there's something about your body. So I would think
that that's one of the most important things to start with.
But then also goodness like just looking at our bodies
and seeing what our bodies have done for us, finding
clothes that fit us and make us feel attractive no
matter what side, no matter what size, not trying to
fit into those old jeans. Right, your body has changed,
but you still need to feel good day to day
(25:51):
rather than waiting for some magical moment where maybe those
genes will fit, or maybe your thing is masscary each
day or something that's going to help you to feel good. Ultimately,
at the end of the day, it is our job
to communicate our thoughts and feelings, opinions, and our needs,
and we're responsible for how we communicate that, but we're
not responsible for how our partner feels when we communicate that.
(26:16):
That brings up another question from the community, which is,
how do you deal with that resentment tracy that you
talked about when one parent is doing more than the other.
We don't want to go to our partners and say
I resent you, this is awful what's going on between us?
That will just send alarm bells off for them. But
instead we want to start making our unspoken needs spoken.
(26:40):
We want to be able to offload those things and
sometimes they might be small pieces to start with, but
it's about being consistent and continuing to have our partner
step in. So one mom said her husband says he
has postpartum depression and she wants to know how she
can help him. Yeah, this is to tough one. You know.
(27:01):
I think sometimes what women do is we start to
feel uncomfortable when we see our partners struggling, whether it's
with depression or anxiety, and so what we want to
do is we start to jump in there to fix
and problem solve. And this really isn't a helpful position
to take when our partners are struggling. It alleviates more
of our own anxiety and more than helping our partner out.
(27:23):
So one of the most important things we can do
around mental health when our partners are struggling is really
just to hold space for our partner, which means I
see you, I see that you're struggling, and I'm going
to ask you how you're doing and make space for
you to tell me what your struggle is. I'm not
going to dismiss it or problem solve it. I'm going
to make that space. But what I think is really
(27:44):
important here is that we don't get into a space
of enabling that de activation that comes with depression, so
that we do still want our partners to be part
of babies life. Yes, one partner could have depression and
we can support them, but we do still want to
facilitate connecting with our values and that's really important. One
(28:05):
therapy that definitely helps with feelings of depression or anxiety
is that closeness between you and your baby. Not inevitably,
but sometimes it definitely does. Absolutely that's so important. And
then asking your partners to come along with us. So
if we're taking baby for a walk, okay, you wear baby,
let's go for a walk together. Rather than kind of
that top down of saying you need therapy, you need
(28:26):
to go do this, you need to look after yourself
and then have a different way of processing and dealing
with depression. Right, so they may mask it in other
ways and may need you to help them get help. Right,
And that comes back to that, you know, what were
the conversations we're going to have before baby comes that
can we talk about what are we going to do
(28:48):
when one partner struggles? How will we signal to each other?
How will we support each other when those big emotions
come up? Personally? For me, you know we met, we
got engaged. After three months, I got pregnanti formant, and
you know that time that we got to know each other.
In that formant, I looked great, like I always like,
it was the very very early stage of the relationship.
(29:10):
So you dressed up, you look amazing and blah blah blah.
And now like, because I feel like, and this is
gonna sound horrible, but I feel like he got jipped.
Like I feel like it was like false advertisement because
I had all my ship together and now it's like,
which comes back to that, how do you define your
worth here as a And that's that's my bad. Yeah,
(29:31):
I'm a very I'm very insecure, But Emma, that in
that sense though, that anxiety there with that insecurity. It
is something that women experience that you know, they attribute
this distance between us because I had a baby, when actually,
oftentimes there are a lot of other things that are happening,
not just because you know, you've been wearing mom pants
(29:52):
for a year or whenever it is right that that
Actually there's a lot of other things. And what I
do hear male partners often saying is they're like, you
know you weren't sleeping, so I didn't approach you because
I wanted to give you space. But meanwhile, the other partner,
who feels insecure and anxious is saying, I thought it
was all me. You know, it must have been me.
(30:12):
There must be something wrong with me, And so we're
making um that misattribution there to why we're not having sex.
How do we bridge this gap? Like it really is
this big gap? And I truly do wish that if
anyone listening, can you know, if you're struggling in this,
you don't have to keep waiting. You can do things
to help yourself. Don't keep waiting, because the longer you wait,
(30:33):
the bigger that gap grows, and the more that resentment
build and we just don't want that to happen for years.
So how do you bridge that gap? Like, you know,
just touch each other, like come back and say, can
I just rub your arm today? Go back to those
hugs and take the pressure off that. There's got to
be some way that we can get intentional around what
(30:55):
feels good for each other. That's the ticket. So Emma
and many others need to know where to find you.
The main space that I hang out in is Instagram,
So I'm over there Dr dot chc D and on
my website Dr chacy d dot com. I have all
kinds of free resources there, and you can also find
(31:16):
my podcast and my online space where I help couples
to and feel empowered and improve their relationships. So it
reach out to me. I love getting social on there.
That's that's what it's really far. Thank you. I've learned
a lot. Thank you so much for having me here.
Thanks Hidi, Thank you, Emma, baby love my baby love.
(31:41):
I need you, Oh how I need you. Thanks for listening.
Remember I'm always here for you. What to expect is
always here for you. We're all in this together. For
more on what you heard on today's episode, visit What
to Expect dot com slash podcast. You can also check
out What to Expect when You're Expecting, What to Expect
(32:04):
the First Year, and the What to Expect app. And
we want to hear from you. Connect with us on
our community message board or on our social media. You
can find me at Heidi Murkoff and Emma at Emma
bing wt E and of course at What to Expect.
Baby Love is performed by Riley Peterer. What to Expect
(32:27):
is a production of I Heart Radio. From more shows
from I Heart Radio, check out the I Heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
In my Arms, what Don't Just Stay Leja Needa, Baby
(32:47):
Baby
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