This week on What’s God Got To Do With It?, we’re talking about something that’s often avoided in church spaces—but deeply needed: sex, intimacy, and God’s true vision for marriage.
I’m so excited to welcome Sheila and Keith Gregoire to the podcast. Sheila is the voice behind BareMarriage.com and the author of over 11 books, including the eye-opening The Great Sex Rescue and her latest release, The Marriage You Want.
Together, Sheila and Keith have been helping couples move past shame, harmful theology, and broken intimacy scripts to build marriages rooted in mutuality, emotional safety, and real connection.
If you've ever struggled with what you were taught about sex, submission, or showing up in your marriage—this conversation is for you. And because there’s so much to unpack, we’ve split it into two powerful parts.
In Part 1, we unpack the harmful marriage messages many women were taught in the name of faith—and how they often distort God’s true design for intimacy. Sheila & Keith help us reimagine a more sacred, emotionally safe, and God-honoring view of marriage built on mutuality, connection, and truth.
This episode is all about unlearning what’s not serving us—and making space for a new, life-giving vision of marriage.
GUEST: @sheilagregoire
Check out Sheila & Keith's website: baremarriage.com
Listen to the Bare Marriage Podcast HERE!
HOST: Leanne Ellington // StresslessEating.com // @leanneellington
To learn more about Leanne, head over to www.LeanneEllington.com, and to share your thoughts, questions, feedback, or guest suggestions instantly, head on over to www.WhatsGodGotToDoWithIt.com.
Follow Leanne on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leanneellington/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
If you want to go on a journey.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
If you're skeptical, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Now here to preach. Gonna keep it clean and talk
to me and recall where faith mee spars nature and
get in touch with your creator with a baking love
and je she even speaks Hebrew.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
What's that?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Gotzat?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
What's that? This little sabosation should talking transformation?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
What's that Gonzato?
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Well, hello and welcome to What's God got to do
with It? We are here with some very special guests.
And if you missed, it's been a few months, but
the Let's talk about Sex Without Shame or Judgment episode,
we'll link it in the show notes. This feels like
such a beautiful next part of the conversation for that episode,
so if you miss it, check it out. But so
excited to welcome today Sheila and Keith Greguar. And if
(01:06):
you're not familiar with their work, they are the voice
behind bear marriage dot Com and the author of over
eleven different books, including The Great Sex Rescue and then
their latest.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Book, The Marriage That You Want.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
And so they've spent years just challenging the harmful messages
that so many of us were taught about sex and marriage,
and instead they offer a healthier and more evidence base,
which you all know we love evidence based here at
the Godpod and biblically grounded, and we love that too.
They offer a more evidence based and biblically grounded path
forward to navigate these conversations. So they're all about helping
(01:41):
couples build real intimacy and emotional connection and actual mutual respect,
and they're not afraid to call out what's not working.
So can't wait to dive into this conversation. We're here
for part one and then we'll be up back next week.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
For part two. But first of all, welcome, thank you
so much for being here. Guys.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Thanks, We're excited absolutely.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
So what I really want to want to dive into
with you all this episode is this idea that you know,
everyone but women specifically, were taught what marriage and relationships
should look like and how that's not necessarily what God
had in mind. And so I know you all have
been a strong voice in challenging, you know, damaging ideas
when it comes to how you know, quit Christian women
(02:23):
specifically are told to show.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Up in a marriage.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
So first of all, you know, just dive and write
in what inspired you to write the book The Marriage
that You Want And what false beliefs about marriage were
you most passionate about dismantling when you guys wrote this, Well,
I've been on.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
A journey for about fifteen years. I started mommy blogging
in two thousand and eight when everyone was doing that,
you know, house work, organizing, parenting. And the more I
talked about sex, the more my traffic grew. And so
I kind of became this Christian sex space, which is weird. Yeah,
you know, like nobody really thinks growing up. You know
what I really want to do when I get older.
I don't want to be the Christian sex lady.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
But I did.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
And so I was just churning out content and it
was healthy, and I was writing books like The Good
Girl's Guide to Grade Sex and I was having a
grand old time. But one thing I never did was
I didn't read other evangelical marriage books because I was
afraid of play drizing. And then one Friday afternoon in
January of twenty nineteen, I was procrastinating because I had
a headache, and I was on what was then called Twitter,
(03:19):
and people were arguing about whether they needed love or
respect and they were referring to that best selling book,
and I thought, I have that book. This is a
great way to procrastinate. So I when in it, got
it and I read the sex chapter and it was
like a nuclear bomb went off in my living room
because I read things like if your husband is typical,
he's any that you don't have, and the need is
(03:40):
just for physical release, and there was nothing but intimacy,
nothing about.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
A woman's pleasure.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
And I thought, I got to do something about this,
and that's what our team did. So for the last
six years we've just been churning research. Study after research
study out done the largest studies on women's marital and
sexual satisfaction in the church, and now we've expanded it
to couples as well, and to what really makes marriage work. Amazing,
(04:05):
because we've been carrying stuff down for a long time.
Now we're like, Okay, if we're going to build it up,
what's it.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
Going to look like?
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Absolutely, And so, if I'm hearing correctly, the Great Sex
Rescue was a lot of that research is where you
talked about what you guys discovered and the dismantling and
then the marriage you want is how you're collectively putting
it together to kind of not be a guide, but
a framework, so to speak, with.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
How to move forward exactly.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Yeah, can you just give us an example of some
of what you all discovered in these studies, just so
anybody's listening can get an idea of the kind of
you know, evidence based thinking that you're coming from.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Yeah. Well, one of the problem is that a lot
of Christian books have been based on people's opinions and
it's kind of gone unchallenged, and people who aren't qualified
have been writing most of our bestsellers, And what we
found is that there's a lot of messages in them
that really are harmful. Like when you believe, for instance,
that a woman is obligated to give her husband sex
when he wants it. Well, guess what. That belief, pretty
(05:00):
much alone, is largely responsible for the reason that evangelical
women suffer from twice the rate of sexual pain disorders
as the general population, because that is a toxic belief.
It takes away women's autonomy. It turns sex from a
knowing into an owing.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Yeah, it's a duty filled obligation rather than something that
we want to give as a gift, Like it's designed
and then it fires and wires that kind of traumatic
response in our nervous system.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
It's exactly and we found that certainly in sex, but
it's there in marriage too. And when we were writing
The Marriage You Want, we found that one really toxic
belief is the idea that the husband's going to be
the tie breaker, you know, so if you disagree in marriage,
then he gets to break the.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Tie, which he's not really breaking the tie.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
We always say, if there's two people voting and one
person has the tiebreaker vote, then one person has all
the votes, right, because if there's two people and one tiebreaker,
there's only one voter. Really, And this is the thing
is I'm a physician naturally, that's my day job, you know,
And I got into this because, you know, she like
came along and said, hey, how would you like to
just talk about the most intimate details of our lives
(06:02):
in front of people on podcasts and churches and stuff.
And I'm like, yeah, sure whatever, I'm up for it.
But the big thing for me as a physician is
it's gotta work. Yeah, right, So you've got to show
me the evidence for this. And so we've been debating
about different forms of marriage in the Christian Church for
a long time, and you fall into different camps and oh,
I'm a galitarian or I'm a commentary or I'm a this,
(06:24):
or I'm that, and we debate about theology. Well, we're
trying to say, forget all that. What actually just works
on the ground. And one of the big things we
see is that there's this real idea that the man
has to be in charge for a marriage to work.
And people keep saying that and keep saying that and
keep saying that, but all the evidence shows the exact
opposite is true. Marriages work so much better when both
the husband and the wife come as a team and
(06:46):
both of them work together to follow God in God's
plans for their marriage, rather than one of them having
the lead and being in charge and deciding the plans
for the marriage. It's so much better if you both
show up completely the way that God made you and
make the marriage that you are meant to make together Undergod.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Yeah, and that's one of the things that really excited
me to talk to you all about is because yes,
you have the anecdotal evidence, because you've been practicing this
with your books. You're the people that you are influencing.
But this is what the data is showing us. You're
going in the direction of the science, and where those
two meet is.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
A beautiful place.
Speaker 6 (07:20):
So thanks for doing the work that you're doing. It's
really cool.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
So you guys talk about this visual triangle that represents
marriage with God at the top.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 4 (07:29):
And then I'm sure it's evolved, you know, as you
guys have gone through your own experiences, But can you
just share. I mean, I love a good visual I'm
a visual learner. To just kind of show us your picture.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Okay, Well, I mean the big thing is that you know,
when we say that God is at the top and
we are each at the bottom of this triangle. And
the idea is that as we move closer to God,
will get closer to each other. And that's the image
that you won't to have of a marriage, that you're
growing closer together. The problem is that can get distorted.
One of the big ways that can get distorted is
when you know your part of the triangle doesn't show up.
(07:59):
And a lot of times, unfortunately, we teach particularly women
to not show up in marriage, to defer and to
make themselves smaller and to make themselves less. Yeah, and
it sounds very Christian because it sounds humble and all
that kind of stuff. But it's not helpful to a marriage.
If one person makes themselves small, a marriage doesn't get
stronger at the expense of one of the partners. That
(08:20):
doesn't make a marriage stronger. You get stronger when you're
both getting stronger. You're both leaning into the kind of
people that made you to be. So the triangle works best.
God is important. God's the top of the triangle. He's
very important. But you're important too, and your spouse is important.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Yeah, And when we shrink ourselves, what happens we resent,
We add in more resent and it fuels adds fuel
to the fire. So we're now shrunken and resentful, you know.
And then it's a and then we create a reaction
in our spouse. So it's so beautiful because it allows
you to clean up your side of the street, but
also not try to take too much responsibility for things
that are not yours to take on, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
So I love that. And so, Sheila, how.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Do you feel like this has evolved in your work
as you've seen it and how it's evolved based on
your own experiences?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
One of the things that I love about the triangle
and analogy is the math of it. So can I
just geek it out for a second, please?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Okay, geek away.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
So one of the other ways that the trying can
get distorted is that instead of trying to be who
you are, who God made you to be, with the
gifts that God gave you and the passions that God
gave you, we try instead to fulfill gender roles. So
we have this idea and that women are supposed to
be like this and men are supposed to be like this.
And let me give you an example. We're often told
(09:32):
that men are rational and women are emotional. Right, men
think women feel?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Well?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Is that actually true? And so we took a look.
There's something called the Myers Briggs Type Inventory, which is
a personality test basically, and one of the things that
it measures. One of the scales is thinking versus feeling.
And we found a study of sixty three thousand participants
who filled out this thing. And I'm going to get
these stats slightly wrong because I can't remember them exactly,
but it'll be close. And what they found was that
(10:01):
about fifty six percent of men were thinkers. So it
is the majority, it fits the stereotype. And about I
think it was like seventy three percent of women are feelers,
so even more fits the stereotype. So that sounds like yah,
see men or rational women are emotional. But if you
go back to junior high math, what is the chance
of both of those things happening at the same time?
So what's the chance of a guy who's a thinker
(10:23):
marrying a woman who's a feeler. Well, you multiply them together.
And when you multiply them together, I think you get
about forty two percent, which means that every single sermon
that you have ever heard about how women are emotional
and men aren't does not apply to fifty eight percent
of couples.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
And then when we think we're the outlier, if we
are the outlier to that, we think there's something wrong
with us or that we're not doing it right. Yeah,
and it's just we're not meant to fit in that mold.
The math isn't mathing right.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
And even if it does fit, like even if he
is the thinker and she is the feeler, or they
have a preference in that way, we're all thinkers, we're
all feelers. But there's preferences right, Right, Even if it
does it, how does it help you to make it gendered?
Why can't we just talk about how to get along
when there's differences.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
And accept our ways of being rather than try to
apologize for them. We talk about the antier singular cortex
a lot here, because that's the part of the brain
that I'm obsessed with, and women have a bit. It's
the part of our brain that cares what other people
think about this, so that emotional pain centers, physiological pain centers,
all the things. But like it's bigger and more active
in women, so we are wired to feel a bit more.
(11:28):
But it doesn't mean that we're crazier, that it's wrong
for feeling, or that we have to apologize, or like
you were saying, shrink ourselves in our marriage. Right, It's
about noticing, like, Okay, I feel things I feel deeply,
So how can I partner and I come together to
receive each other's feelings and intellectual side and represent for
each other and celebrate each other rather than let it
(11:49):
be the thing that breaks us apart. I feel like
this might be a super new concept. We talked a
lot about, you know, the taking our thoughts captive and
the stories that we're spending that create our self image
and create our reality and the conditioning. Can you talk
(12:11):
about scripts in our marriage and this idea of you know,
what is that? What does that look like? But what
happens when we internalize a harmful marriage script? And how
does that show up?
Speaker 5 (12:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Okay, so I'm gonna geek out again.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Please.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
What we did for our study for the marriage you
want is we asked so many questions, Like if anyone
took our survey, it was about forty minutes long. There
were hundreds of questions.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
But we were.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Measuring lots of things that are just that you just
want in marriage, things like having shared hobbies, feeling like
you can share your heart with your spouse, enjoying spending
time together, having a high libido, frequently reaching orgasm, like
all these happy things. And there's so many happy things.
And let's take all of those happy things. And what
(12:56):
we found is that when one part of it gets
a little bit better, other things are more likely to
also get a little bit better. Like all the happy
things move in the same direction, maybe not as much,
like it might only get a tiny bit better if
something gets a lot better, but they're all going in
the same direction. Absolutely Similarly, if there's one element that's
(13:17):
getting a little bit worse, everything else has a really
good chance of getting a little bit worse too. Now
here's what I want people to understand. When you have
a negative script in your marriage, when you have ideas
like he's got to be the tiebreaker, or I deserve
to have someone take care of me no matter what
I'm doing, or this is too much work, I shouldn't
(13:37):
have to work on this, whatever, those negative scripts are.
Those negative scripts travel with the bad outcomes. Yes, And
so when you have those negative scripts, it's going to
affect everything a little bit. And so if we can
just change what we believe about marriage, if we can
change how we practice being a team, did you see
(14:00):
everything more?
Speaker 5 (14:01):
Like?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Could it get a little bit better? Isn't that what
we want so much?
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Why I resonate about how what you guys share is
to me that is from the root healing, because you
can look at things symptomatically of like this fight and
he said this and this behavior showed up.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
But it's like, no, what are the beliefs.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
In the scripts that are causing the behaviors and that
are causing the circumstances and causing the reactivity. Right, and
you're taking it from that that you know, macro root
cause approach, which I so love.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
The data that we did for this survey was amazing.
For our book, we didn't what's called a match prepared survey,
so we actually were able to link people anonymously, so
you didn't know what your spouse answers. Yeah, but we
were able to compare the answers of the spouses, and
so we could see that when one person believed something,
how it affected the other person's satisfaction with their marriage.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Right.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
Because one of the critiques that Sheila gets a lot
is you're just serving people who believe like you believe,
and therefore you know they're saying that you have a
better marriage because this. But that's actually completely a misrepresentation
because for our study to have its findings, we have
to have people in two groups. So I'll give you
another script, which is very commonity in the Evangelical church,
(15:07):
is that men need respect in a way women don't
understand or appreciate. That's how did everywhere somehow you know,
this is a fundamental need for men in a way
that it isn't for women. Okay, that's an idea, is
it true? Right? Well, in our book we actually ask
men and women do you need love, respect, you know, inadequacy?
What are the things that are the most important to you?
(15:29):
Because it's all based on a question that was asked
in a couple of Christian books, would you rather be
alone in love or inadequate and disrespected? And then more
men wrote they would rather be alone and on loved
than inadequate and disrespected. So this idea that men need respect, Now,
the problem with that study is that never asks women.
So yes, yeah. And also and when a man writes
(15:53):
he would rather be alone unloved than inadequate and disrespected,
which of those four things is really important? So we
actually ask that and it turns out both men and women,
when you ask them all for individually, both men and
women want most to be loved. We all want most
to be loved. The thing that men want the least
is to feel inadequate. It's not the disrespect that's getting met.
(16:13):
I don't want to feel like I'm not adequate, I'm
not enough. Right, Women actually rank lack of respect higher
than men. Women want to be respect.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Believe that like mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Yeah. So this nonsense that men need respect or want
respector or need respect in the way women don't is
completely ridiculous. Moreover, what we found was if you believed
that message, you had measurably worse outcomes for your marriage
and your spouse did too. So believing that message not
only is it wrong, but it actually is harmful if
(16:46):
you believe it. So changing these scripts that were given
and challenging them and saying, is that really what God wants?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Really?
Speaker 5 (16:53):
God wants a marriage where women. We can put respect
for women on the back burner, it's not as important.
Is that really the marri that God wants? Being willing
to ask those kind of questions and buck just because
some Christian author wrote something without any data, without any support, right,
challenging that and saying, hey, what kind of marriage do
I want to create based on what's actually real? It's
(17:14):
so power.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Absolutely, and those beliefs can are this infectious thing. So
they're either you know, toxically infecting the marriage in every
aspect or it's giving healing with you. If you shift
the beliefs and you shift those scripts, it can heal
what's what needs repairing. So I love this so much,
So let's talk about the big one. Let's talk about
sex and intimacy, right, So, how do you guys define healthy,
(17:36):
god honoring intimacy.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I know this, there's a lot of stigma to this topic.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I believe that I had to go through what I
went through with my whole giving my sex life over
to God before I really committed for life to my husband.
But I also feel like I could have gotten that
memo if I had had awareness earlier on in my.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
Life, you know, so for people that are experiencing that now.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
And one of the things I heard you say in
an interview, Shela was the difference between purity and virginity
and thinking like, oh, if I lose my virginity then
like I'm already screwed. What's the point like all the things,
But it's like no purity, like purity can be a
choice at any time.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Right.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
And I'm also here to say, when I shared my
own testimony around this, I'm not here to tell anybody
what they should or shouldn't be doing. It's just like
it's about being aware of what choice and power we
do have and that there's consequences either direction. I know
that's obviously a big loaded question. But talking about you know,
healthy god honoring intimacy and what does that look like
if no one's ever really explored that, right.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Yeah, because part of the problem is that we equate
intercourse with intimacy and it ain't the same thing. They're
not always coexistent, they are And so you know, we
open our sex chapter in the marriage you want by
saying that you shouldn't prioritize.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
Your sex life.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Everyone is always telling us to prioritize your sex life.
And when you say that prioritize your sex life, what
people here is I need to have sex more. I
need to make sure that we're having lots and lots
of sex. Here's the problem. Having lots and lots of sex.
The only thing that guarantees, and I'm not sure how
much I can say, can what words I can say?
Speaker 5 (19:06):
Say?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Whatever is on your heart.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
The only thing that guarantees is that he reaches climax.
That's the only thing that guarantees. It does not guarantee
that she does. It does not guarantee that they even
feel close. Because sixteen percent of women in our survey
reported that their primary emotion after sex is feeling used,
so for them, not having sex would improve their marriage
more than having sex.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Wow, so crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
And remember that we have a forty seven point orgasm
gap in the Evangelical church, by which I mean that
ninety five percent of men almost always are always retorgasm
and a given sexual encounter, or to just forty eight
percent of women. So let's not prioritize sex. Let's instead
prioritize the ingredients to great sex. Because often the reason
that people don't want sex is because it isn't doing
(19:51):
anything for them. And can you blame them?
Speaker 4 (19:53):
So yeah, or even like you just said, to your point,
taking away detracting from their experience, Yes, yeah, create more pain,
causing a more fire and a wired you know almost
like micro trauma and their nervousness and whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
The case may be. Like that's there's there's two sides
to this.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Yeah, we have a very simple formula, which I think
is very biblical. First of all, sex should be intimate.
You know, Genesis four, Verse one, Adam knew his wife
Eve and they conceived a son, and that word to know,
there's a reason it's there. It's like sex is not
just a physical thing, so it's deeply intimate. We know
from Song of Solomon that it is pleasurable for both.
She is saying more words than she is than he
(20:29):
is in that book, and she's having a good time.
And then in First Corinthian seven we know that sex
is something totally mutual and that's what it should be,
is something mutual, intimate, and pleasurable for both. And that
means that we need to deal with things like the
porn issue. You know, you can't have great sex if
she's feeling used or pornified. You need to deal with
the fact that she needs to be able to feel
(20:51):
pleasure too. Right. We need to deal with anything rid
of obligation so that sex is truly mutual. And it's
it's a hard thing because we've grown up being taught
that women don't want sex and that men are entitled
to it. But those two beliefs together are really toxic
for a great sex life.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
I'm so glad you're talking about this too, because these
are the things that if we don't have awareness around,
or theirs stigma around. I know, for me, I'm so
grateful that somebody talk to me about this idea of
how porn affects a marriage, because I knew that in
the dating process when I was interviewing to find my husband,
at some point in time, not immediately, I needed to
find out, like, what's your relationship with porn? And honestly,
to me, if it was anything other than like, ooh,
(21:33):
that's not my thing, like that's a deal breaker for
me because I know how damaging it is, because somebody
made me aware of that, you know, and this idea
of you know, feeling used after having sex or just
these these things that again it's not being talked about.
These are filters that we can for people that aren't married,
can go have discernment, to go find their perfect partner
rather than deal with some of this stuff down the road.
(21:55):
So the work you're doing is also you know, helping
people not even there yet. The other thing that you
said that super cool Now the word nerd in me,
I'm a Bacon love and Jew who learned Hebrew and
speaks Hebrew the conversational kind, not the biblical kind. But
the word to know has actually two different words in Hebrew.
There's one to know if I want to know information,
but to know to be intimate with somebody is a
(22:16):
totally different word in Hebrew. And that always stood stuck
with me and then it came back to me more
when I was exploring my relationship with sex, right, And
so yeah, like you said, intimacy is just it's a
non negotiable that needs to be the thing that we
are seeking how to create or what's getting in the
way of us having that, rather than just chasing after
(22:36):
sex or the amount of times we're having sex or
climax or whatever it is. Right, so super super powerful.
There's so much that I like, I wish we had
all the time in the world. But that's amazing because
we're doing a part too. So thank you for this
first part of the conversation. I want you all to
definitely come back because now we've touched on what we
need to unlearn.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Right, only touched on it.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
This is just scratching the surface, right of what we
need to unlearn and how to build a healthier, happier.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
View of marriage.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
But in part two we're going to dive into how
this all plays out practically, especially when there's conflict or
unmet needs or intimacy wounds. So definitely stick around for
that next week. But in the meantime, where can people
find you? Google Stock? You all the things.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yes, So go to bear Marriage dot com.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
That's Bear b a R.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
That is our blog. You'll find links to all of
our books there, Girls Guide to Sex Grade, Sex Rescue,
and our new one that we've been talking about, The
Marriage You Want, as well as my podcast Bear Marriage,
which is out every Thursday. And all my social media
links are there. I have found on Instagram fixing terrible quotes,
so you can find me there too.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
Thank you so much. We will link that in the
show notes.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Thanks for being here, and we will be back for
part two next week.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Bye.
Speaker 7 (23:49):
We'll be back with more What's God Got to Do
with It?
Speaker 4 (23:52):
But in the meantime, I would definitely love to hear
from you, so just tell me where you are in
your story or maybe what questions you have, like where
do you feel you need clarity or support or wisdom
in your own journey. I definitely want to hear from you,
So head on over to What's God Got to Do
with It? Dot com and scroll down to the form
(24:12):
to share your thoughts, your questions, your feedback, and you
can do that instantly.
Speaker 7 (24:17):
So What's God Got to Do with It? Dot Com?
Speaker 4 (24:19):
You'll find all the ways to do that, And if
you like this podcast and want to hear more, go
ahead and follow, like, and subscribe wherever you listen to
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Speaker 7 (24:30):
Of What's God Got to Do With It?
Speaker 4 (24:32):
New episodes drop every single Tuesday, and while you're there,
be sure to rate and review to show your support.
It really means so much. What's God Got to Do
With It is an iHeartRadio podcast on the Amy Brown
Podcast Network.
Speaker 7 (24:48):
It's written and hosted by.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Me Leanne Ellington, executive produced by Elizabeth Fozzio, post production
and editing by Houston Tilley, and original music written by
Cheryl Stark and produced by Adam Stark.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
A c
Speaker 3 (25:05):
M
If you want to go on a journey.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
If you're skeptical, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Now here to preach. Gonna keep it clean and talk
to me and recall where faith mee spars nature and
get in touch with your creator with a baking love
and je she even speaks Hebrew.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
What's that?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Gotzat?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
What's that? This little sabosation should talking transformation?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
What's that Gonzato?
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Well, hello and welcome to What's God got to do
with It? We are here with some very special guests.
And if you missed, it's been a few months, but
the Let's talk about Sex Without Shame or Judgment episode,
we'll link it in the show notes. This feels like
such a beautiful next part of the conversation for that episode,
so if you miss it, check it out. But so
excited to welcome today Sheila and Keith Greguar. And if
(01:06):
you're not familiar with their work, they are the voice
behind bear marriage dot Com and the author of over
eleven different books, including The Great Sex Rescue and then
their latest.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Book, The Marriage That You Want.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
And so they've spent years just challenging the harmful messages
that so many of us were taught about sex and marriage,
and instead they offer a healthier and more evidence base,
which you all know we love evidence based here at
the Godpod and biblically grounded, and we love that too.
They offer a more evidence based and biblically grounded path
forward to navigate these conversations. So they're all about helping
(01:41):
couples build real intimacy and emotional connection and actual mutual respect,
and they're not afraid to call out what's not working.
So can't wait to dive into this conversation. We're here
for part one and then we'll be up back next week.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
For part two. But first of all, welcome, thank you
so much for being here. Guys.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Thanks, We're excited absolutely.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
So what I really want to want to dive into
with you all this episode is this idea that you know,
everyone but women specifically, were taught what marriage and relationships
should look like and how that's not necessarily what God
had in mind. And so I know you all have
been a strong voice in challenging, you know, damaging ideas
when it comes to how you know, quit Christian women
(02:23):
specifically are told to show.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Up in a marriage.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
So first of all, you know, just dive and write
in what inspired you to write the book The Marriage
that You Want And what false beliefs about marriage were
you most passionate about dismantling when you guys wrote this, Well,
I've been on.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
A journey for about fifteen years. I started mommy blogging
in two thousand and eight when everyone was doing that,
you know, house work, organizing, parenting. And the more I
talked about sex, the more my traffic grew. And so
I kind of became this Christian sex space, which is weird. Yeah,
you know, like nobody really thinks growing up. You know
what I really want to do when I get older.
I don't want to be the Christian sex lady.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
But I did.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
And so I was just churning out content and it
was healthy, and I was writing books like The Good
Girl's Guide to Grade Sex and I was having a
grand old time. But one thing I never did was
I didn't read other evangelical marriage books because I was
afraid of play drizing. And then one Friday afternoon in
January of twenty nineteen, I was procrastinating because I had
a headache, and I was on what was then called Twitter,
(03:19):
and people were arguing about whether they needed love or
respect and they were referring to that best selling book,
and I thought, I have that book. This is a
great way to procrastinate. So I when in it, got
it and I read the sex chapter and it was
like a nuclear bomb went off in my living room
because I read things like if your husband is typical,
he's any that you don't have, and the need is
(03:40):
just for physical release, and there was nothing but intimacy,
nothing about.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
A woman's pleasure.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
And I thought, I got to do something about this,
and that's what our team did. So for the last
six years we've just been churning research. Study after research
study out done the largest studies on women's marital and
sexual satisfaction in the church, and now we've expanded it
to couples as well, and to what really makes marriage work. Amazing,
(04:05):
because we've been carrying stuff down for a long time.
Now we're like, Okay, if we're going to build it up,
what's it.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
Going to look like?
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Absolutely, And so, if I'm hearing correctly, the Great Sex
Rescue was a lot of that research is where you
talked about what you guys discovered and the dismantling and
then the marriage you want is how you're collectively putting
it together to kind of not be a guide, but
a framework, so to speak, with.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
How to move forward exactly.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Yeah, can you just give us an example of some
of what you all discovered in these studies, just so
anybody's listening can get an idea of the kind of
you know, evidence based thinking that you're coming from.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Yeah. Well, one of the problem is that a lot
of Christian books have been based on people's opinions and
it's kind of gone unchallenged, and people who aren't qualified
have been writing most of our bestsellers, And what we
found is that there's a lot of messages in them
that really are harmful. Like when you believe, for instance,
that a woman is obligated to give her husband sex
when he wants it. Well, guess what. That belief, pretty
(05:00):
much alone, is largely responsible for the reason that evangelical
women suffer from twice the rate of sexual pain disorders
as the general population, because that is a toxic belief.
It takes away women's autonomy. It turns sex from a
knowing into an owing.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Yeah, it's a duty filled obligation rather than something that
we want to give as a gift, Like it's designed
and then it fires and wires that kind of traumatic
response in our nervous system.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
It's exactly and we found that certainly in sex, but
it's there in marriage too. And when we were writing
The Marriage You Want, we found that one really toxic
belief is the idea that the husband's going to be
the tie breaker, you know, so if you disagree in marriage,
then he gets to break the.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Tie, which he's not really breaking the tie.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
We always say, if there's two people voting and one
person has the tiebreaker vote, then one person has all
the votes, right, because if there's two people and one tiebreaker,
there's only one voter. Really, And this is the thing
is I'm a physician naturally, that's my day job, you know,
And I got into this because, you know, she like
came along and said, hey, how would you like to
just talk about the most intimate details of our lives
(06:02):
in front of people on podcasts and churches and stuff.
And I'm like, yeah, sure whatever, I'm up for it.
But the big thing for me as a physician is
it's gotta work. Yeah, right, So you've got to show
me the evidence for this. And so we've been debating
about different forms of marriage in the Christian Church for
a long time, and you fall into different camps and oh,
I'm a galitarian or I'm a commentary or I'm a this,
(06:24):
or I'm that, and we debate about theology. Well, we're
trying to say, forget all that. What actually just works
on the ground. And one of the big things we
see is that there's this real idea that the man
has to be in charge for a marriage to work.
And people keep saying that and keep saying that and
keep saying that, but all the evidence shows the exact
opposite is true. Marriages work so much better when both
the husband and the wife come as a team and
(06:46):
both of them work together to follow God in God's
plans for their marriage, rather than one of them having
the lead and being in charge and deciding the plans
for the marriage. It's so much better if you both
show up completely the way that God made you and
make the marriage that you are meant to make together Undergod.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Yeah, and that's one of the things that really excited
me to talk to you all about is because yes,
you have the anecdotal evidence, because you've been practicing this
with your books. You're the people that you are influencing.
But this is what the data is showing us. You're
going in the direction of the science, and where those
two meet is.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
A beautiful place.
Speaker 6 (07:20):
So thanks for doing the work that you're doing. It's
really cool.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
So you guys talk about this visual triangle that represents
marriage with God at the top.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 4 (07:29):
And then I'm sure it's evolved, you know, as you
guys have gone through your own experiences, But can you
just share. I mean, I love a good visual I'm
a visual learner. To just kind of show us your picture.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Okay, Well, I mean the big thing is that you know,
when we say that God is at the top and
we are each at the bottom of this triangle. And
the idea is that as we move closer to God,
will get closer to each other. And that's the image
that you won't to have of a marriage, that you're
growing closer together. The problem is that can get distorted.
One of the big ways that can get distorted is
when you know your part of the triangle doesn't show up.
(07:59):
And a lot of times, unfortunately, we teach particularly women
to not show up in marriage, to defer and to
make themselves smaller and to make themselves less. Yeah, and
it sounds very Christian because it sounds humble and all
that kind of stuff. But it's not helpful to a marriage.
If one person makes themselves small, a marriage doesn't get
stronger at the expense of one of the partners. That
(08:20):
doesn't make a marriage stronger. You get stronger when you're
both getting stronger. You're both leaning into the kind of
people that made you to be. So the triangle works best.
God is important. God's the top of the triangle. He's
very important. But you're important too, and your spouse is important.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Yeah, And when we shrink ourselves, what happens we resent,
We add in more resent and it fuels adds fuel
to the fire. So we're now shrunken and resentful, you know.
And then it's a and then we create a reaction
in our spouse. So it's so beautiful because it allows
you to clean up your side of the street, but
also not try to take too much responsibility for things
that are not yours to take on, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
So I love that. And so, Sheila, how.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Do you feel like this has evolved in your work
as you've seen it and how it's evolved based on
your own experiences?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
One of the things that I love about the triangle
and analogy is the math of it. So can I
just geek it out for a second, please?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Okay, geek away.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
So one of the other ways that the trying can
get distorted is that instead of trying to be who
you are, who God made you to be, with the
gifts that God gave you and the passions that God
gave you, we try instead to fulfill gender roles. So
we have this idea and that women are supposed to
be like this and men are supposed to be like this.
And let me give you an example. We're often told
(09:32):
that men are rational and women are emotional. Right, men
think women feel?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Well?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Is that actually true? And so we took a look.
There's something called the Myers Briggs Type Inventory, which is
a personality test basically, and one of the things that
it measures. One of the scales is thinking versus feeling.
And we found a study of sixty three thousand participants
who filled out this thing. And I'm going to get
these stats slightly wrong because I can't remember them exactly,
but it'll be close. And what they found was that
(10:01):
about fifty six percent of men were thinkers. So it
is the majority, it fits the stereotype. And about I
think it was like seventy three percent of women are feelers,
so even more fits the stereotype. So that sounds like yah,
see men or rational women are emotional. But if you
go back to junior high math, what is the chance
of both of those things happening at the same time?
So what's the chance of a guy who's a thinker
(10:23):
marrying a woman who's a feeler. Well, you multiply them together.
And when you multiply them together, I think you get
about forty two percent, which means that every single sermon
that you have ever heard about how women are emotional
and men aren't does not apply to fifty eight percent
of couples.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
And then when we think we're the outlier, if we
are the outlier to that, we think there's something wrong
with us or that we're not doing it right. Yeah,
and it's just we're not meant to fit in that mold.
The math isn't mathing right.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
And even if it does fit, like even if he
is the thinker and she is the feeler, or they
have a preference in that way, we're all thinkers, we're
all feelers. But there's preferences right, Right, Even if it
does it, how does it help you to make it gendered?
Why can't we just talk about how to get along
when there's differences.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
And accept our ways of being rather than try to
apologize for them. We talk about the antier singular cortex
a lot here, because that's the part of the brain
that I'm obsessed with, and women have a bit. It's
the part of our brain that cares what other people
think about this, so that emotional pain centers, physiological pain centers,
all the things. But like it's bigger and more active
in women, so we are wired to feel a bit more.
(11:28):
But it doesn't mean that we're crazier, that it's wrong
for feeling, or that we have to apologize, or like
you were saying, shrink ourselves in our marriage. Right, It's
about noticing, like, Okay, I feel things I feel deeply,
So how can I partner and I come together to
receive each other's feelings and intellectual side and represent for
each other and celebrate each other rather than let it
(11:49):
be the thing that breaks us apart. I feel like
this might be a super new concept. We talked a
lot about, you know, the taking our thoughts captive and
the stories that we're spending that create our self image
and create our reality and the conditioning. Can you talk
(12:11):
about scripts in our marriage and this idea of you know,
what is that? What does that look like? But what
happens when we internalize a harmful marriage script? And how
does that show up?
Speaker 5 (12:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Okay, so I'm gonna geek out again.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Please.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
What we did for our study for the marriage you
want is we asked so many questions, Like if anyone
took our survey, it was about forty minutes long. There
were hundreds of questions.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
But we were.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Measuring lots of things that are just that you just
want in marriage, things like having shared hobbies, feeling like
you can share your heart with your spouse, enjoying spending
time together, having a high libido, frequently reaching orgasm, like
all these happy things. And there's so many happy things.
And let's take all of those happy things. And what
(12:56):
we found is that when one part of it gets
a little bit better, other things are more likely to
also get a little bit better. Like all the happy
things move in the same direction, maybe not as much,
like it might only get a tiny bit better if
something gets a lot better, but they're all going in
the same direction. Absolutely Similarly, if there's one element that's
(13:17):
getting a little bit worse, everything else has a really
good chance of getting a little bit worse too. Now
here's what I want people to understand. When you have
a negative script in your marriage, when you have ideas
like he's got to be the tiebreaker, or I deserve
to have someone take care of me no matter what
I'm doing, or this is too much work, I shouldn't
(13:37):
have to work on this, whatever, those negative scripts are.
Those negative scripts travel with the bad outcomes. Yes, And
so when you have those negative scripts, it's going to
affect everything a little bit. And so if we can
just change what we believe about marriage, if we can
change how we practice being a team, did you see
(14:00):
everything more?
Speaker 5 (14:01):
Like?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Could it get a little bit better? Isn't that what
we want so much?
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Why I resonate about how what you guys share is
to me that is from the root healing, because you
can look at things symptomatically of like this fight and
he said this and this behavior showed up.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
But it's like, no, what are the beliefs.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
In the scripts that are causing the behaviors and that
are causing the circumstances and causing the reactivity. Right, and
you're taking it from that that you know, macro root
cause approach, which I so love.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
The data that we did for this survey was amazing.
For our book, we didn't what's called a match prepared survey,
so we actually were able to link people anonymously, so
you didn't know what your spouse answers. Yeah, but we
were able to compare the answers of the spouses, and
so we could see that when one person believed something,
how it affected the other person's satisfaction with their marriage.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Right.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
Because one of the critiques that Sheila gets a lot
is you're just serving people who believe like you believe,
and therefore you know they're saying that you have a
better marriage because this. But that's actually completely a misrepresentation
because for our study to have its findings, we have
to have people in two groups. So I'll give you
another script, which is very commonity in the Evangelical church,
(15:07):
is that men need respect in a way women don't
understand or appreciate. That's how did everywhere somehow you know,
this is a fundamental need for men in a way
that it isn't for women. Okay, that's an idea, is
it true? Right? Well, in our book we actually ask
men and women do you need love, respect, you know, inadequacy?
What are the things that are the most important to you?
(15:29):
Because it's all based on a question that was asked
in a couple of Christian books, would you rather be
alone in love or inadequate and disrespected? And then more
men wrote they would rather be alone and on loved
than inadequate and disrespected. So this idea that men need respect, Now,
the problem with that study is that never asks women.
So yes, yeah. And also and when a man writes
(15:53):
he would rather be alone unloved than inadequate and disrespected,
which of those four things is really important? So we
actually ask that and it turns out both men and women,
when you ask them all for individually, both men and
women want most to be loved. We all want most
to be loved. The thing that men want the least
is to feel inadequate. It's not the disrespect that's getting met.
(16:13):
I don't want to feel like I'm not adequate, I'm
not enough. Right, Women actually rank lack of respect higher
than men. Women want to be respect.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Believe that like mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Yeah. So this nonsense that men need respect or want
respector or need respect in the way women don't is
completely ridiculous. Moreover, what we found was if you believed
that message, you had measurably worse outcomes for your marriage
and your spouse did too. So believing that message not
only is it wrong, but it actually is harmful if
(16:46):
you believe it. So changing these scripts that were given
and challenging them and saying, is that really what God wants?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Really?
Speaker 5 (16:53):
God wants a marriage where women. We can put respect
for women on the back burner, it's not as important.
Is that really the marri that God wants? Being willing
to ask those kind of questions and buck just because
some Christian author wrote something without any data, without any support, right,
challenging that and saying, hey, what kind of marriage do
I want to create based on what's actually real? It's
(17:14):
so power.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Absolutely, and those beliefs can are this infectious thing. So
they're either you know, toxically infecting the marriage in every
aspect or it's giving healing with you. If you shift
the beliefs and you shift those scripts, it can heal
what's what needs repairing. So I love this so much,
So let's talk about the big one. Let's talk about
sex and intimacy, right, So, how do you guys define healthy,
(17:36):
god honoring intimacy.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I know this, there's a lot of stigma to this topic.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I believe that I had to go through what I
went through with my whole giving my sex life over
to God before I really committed for life to my husband.
But I also feel like I could have gotten that
memo if I had had awareness earlier on in my.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
Life, you know, so for people that are experiencing that now.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
And one of the things I heard you say in
an interview, Shela was the difference between purity and virginity
and thinking like, oh, if I lose my virginity then
like I'm already screwed. What's the point like all the things,
But it's like no purity, like purity can be a
choice at any time.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Right.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
And I'm also here to say, when I shared my
own testimony around this, I'm not here to tell anybody
what they should or shouldn't be doing. It's just like
it's about being aware of what choice and power we
do have and that there's consequences either direction. I know
that's obviously a big loaded question. But talking about you know,
healthy god honoring intimacy and what does that look like
if no one's ever really explored that, right.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Yeah, because part of the problem is that we equate
intercourse with intimacy and it ain't the same thing. They're
not always coexistent, they are And so you know, we
open our sex chapter in the marriage you want by
saying that you shouldn't prioritize.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
Your sex life.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Everyone is always telling us to prioritize your sex life.
And when you say that prioritize your sex life, what
people here is I need to have sex more. I
need to make sure that we're having lots and lots
of sex. Here's the problem. Having lots and lots of sex.
The only thing that guarantees, and I'm not sure how
much I can say, can what words I can say?
Speaker 5 (19:06):
Say?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Whatever is on your heart.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
The only thing that guarantees is that he reaches climax.
That's the only thing that guarantees. It does not guarantee
that she does. It does not guarantee that they even
feel close. Because sixteen percent of women in our survey
reported that their primary emotion after sex is feeling used,
so for them, not having sex would improve their marriage
more than having sex.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Wow, so crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
And remember that we have a forty seven point orgasm
gap in the Evangelical church, by which I mean that
ninety five percent of men almost always are always retorgasm
and a given sexual encounter, or to just forty eight
percent of women. So let's not prioritize sex. Let's instead
prioritize the ingredients to great sex. Because often the reason
that people don't want sex is because it isn't doing
(19:51):
anything for them. And can you blame them?
Speaker 4 (19:53):
So yeah, or even like you just said, to your point,
taking away detracting from their experience, Yes, yeah, create more pain,
causing a more fire and a wired you know almost
like micro trauma and their nervousness and whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
The case may be. Like that's there's there's two sides
to this.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Yeah, we have a very simple formula, which I think
is very biblical. First of all, sex should be intimate.
You know, Genesis four, Verse one, Adam knew his wife
Eve and they conceived a son, and that word to know,
there's a reason it's there. It's like sex is not
just a physical thing, so it's deeply intimate. We know
from Song of Solomon that it is pleasurable for both.
She is saying more words than she is than he
(20:29):
is in that book, and she's having a good time.
And then in First Corinthian seven we know that sex
is something totally mutual and that's what it should be,
is something mutual, intimate, and pleasurable for both. And that
means that we need to deal with things like the
porn issue. You know, you can't have great sex if
she's feeling used or pornified. You need to deal with
the fact that she needs to be able to feel
(20:51):
pleasure too. Right. We need to deal with anything rid
of obligation so that sex is truly mutual. And it's
it's a hard thing because we've grown up being taught
that women don't want sex and that men are entitled
to it. But those two beliefs together are really toxic
for a great sex life.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
I'm so glad you're talking about this too, because these
are the things that if we don't have awareness around,
or theirs stigma around. I know, for me, I'm so
grateful that somebody talk to me about this idea of
how porn affects a marriage, because I knew that in
the dating process when I was interviewing to find my husband,
at some point in time, not immediately, I needed to
find out, like, what's your relationship with porn? And honestly,
to me, if it was anything other than like, ooh,
(21:33):
that's not my thing, like that's a deal breaker for
me because I know how damaging it is, because somebody
made me aware of that, you know, and this idea
of you know, feeling used after having sex or just
these these things that again it's not being talked about.
These are filters that we can for people that aren't married,
can go have discernment, to go find their perfect partner
rather than deal with some of this stuff down the road.
(21:55):
So the work you're doing is also you know, helping
people not even there yet. The other thing that you
said that super cool Now the word nerd in me,
I'm a Bacon love and Jew who learned Hebrew and
speaks Hebrew the conversational kind, not the biblical kind. But
the word to know has actually two different words in Hebrew.
There's one to know if I want to know information,
but to know to be intimate with somebody is a
(22:16):
totally different word in Hebrew. And that always stood stuck
with me and then it came back to me more
when I was exploring my relationship with sex, right, And
so yeah, like you said, intimacy is just it's a
non negotiable that needs to be the thing that we
are seeking how to create or what's getting in the
way of us having that, rather than just chasing after
(22:36):
sex or the amount of times we're having sex or
climax or whatever it is. Right, so super super powerful.
There's so much that I like, I wish we had
all the time in the world. But that's amazing because
we're doing a part too. So thank you for this
first part of the conversation. I want you all to
definitely come back because now we've touched on what we
need to unlearn.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Right, only touched on it.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
This is just scratching the surface, right of what we
need to unlearn and how to build a healthier, happier.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
View of marriage.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
But in part two we're going to dive into how
this all plays out practically, especially when there's conflict or
unmet needs or intimacy wounds. So definitely stick around for
that next week. But in the meantime, where can people
find you? Google Stock? You all the things.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yes, So go to bear Marriage dot com.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
That's Bear b a R.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
That is our blog. You'll find links to all of
our books there, Girls Guide to Sex Grade, Sex Rescue,
and our new one that we've been talking about, The
Marriage You Want, as well as my podcast Bear Marriage,
which is out every Thursday. And all my social media
links are there. I have found on Instagram fixing terrible quotes,
so you can find me there too.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
Thank you so much. We will link that in the
show notes.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Thanks for being here, and we will be back for
part two next week.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Bye.
Speaker 7 (23:49):
We'll be back with more What's God Got to Do
with It?
Speaker 4 (23:52):
But in the meantime, I would definitely love to hear
from you, so just tell me where you are in
your story or maybe what questions you have, like where
do you feel you need clarity or support or wisdom
in your own journey. I definitely want to hear from you,
So head on over to What's God Got to Do
with It? Dot com and scroll down to the form
(24:12):
to share your thoughts, your questions, your feedback, and you
can do that instantly.
Speaker 7 (24:17):
So What's God Got to Do with It? Dot Com?
Speaker 4 (24:19):
You'll find all the ways to do that, And if
you like this podcast and want to hear more, go
ahead and follow, like, and subscribe wherever you listen to
podcasts to get your weekly dose.
Speaker 7 (24:30):
Of What's God Got to Do With It?
Speaker 4 (24:32):
New episodes drop every single Tuesday, and while you're there,
be sure to rate and review to show your support.
It really means so much. What's God Got to Do
With It is an iHeartRadio podcast on the Amy Brown
Podcast Network.
Speaker 7 (24:48):
It's written and hosted by.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Me Leanne Ellington, executive produced by Elizabeth Fozzio, post production
and editing by Houston Tilley, and original music written by
Cheryl Stark and produced by Adam Stark.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
A c
Speaker 3 (25:05):
M
Host
Leanne Ellington
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