Amanda Knox, Part 2

In Part 2 of our conversation with Amanda Knox, we talk about rebuilding her life after her wrongful murder conviction, meeting her husband, her life as a mother and what the future holds.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to
What's Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a
show about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and
personal journeys. Together, we'll hear from gold medalists, best selling authors,
and leaders of the world's most iconic brands. Listen every

(00:22):
Thursday or join the conversation anytime on Instagram at What's
Her Story Podcast. Today we bring you part two of
the story of Amanda Knox, a Seattle college student who
spent almost four years in an Italian prison following her
wrongful conviction for the two thousand seven murder of Meredith Kersher,

(00:42):
a fellow exchange student with whom she shared an apartment. Today,
we talked with Amanda about the court of public opinion,
meeting her husband, her transition to motherhood, safety issues, and
what comes next. Given how different the court of public
opinion judged you from what the truth was, how do

(01:06):
you now reconcile? You know, do you care more about
what people think of you or less? I care and
I don't care, depending on the circumstance. So on the
one hand, I know, and I think in a big way,
I just sort of know that when people are judging
other people, oftentimes what they are doing is they are

(01:31):
projecting their own feelings of either guilt or anger or
hurt onto the individual instead of like really deeply understanding
the individual. Um So, if if that makes sense, Like,
I often feel like the person that people hated and

(01:53):
that people wanted to put away in prison was not me.
It was an idea of a person that just happened
to have my face and my name. And so when
I continue to this day to receive messages that convey
not just you know, general dislike, but like actual hatred,

(02:15):
it's a stunning reminder for me. That's so often what
people think of me has nothing to do with me
and has everything to do with what's going on with them,
and that I just happened to be a convenient sort
of thing that they can project whatever is happening inside
of them onto. So that's that is a good reminder

(02:36):
for me. Even when it happens in like, you know,
other circumstances that say, like there's a misunderstanding between me
and my sister, I'm very much reminded like, oh, yeah,
she may be upset and it might have nothing to
do with me. It might have something to do with
something that's going on with her, and that gives me
a better perspective of how to deal with the situation.

(02:59):
But it does matter, you know, like it matters to
me in the sense that in a lot of ways
what kind of person people think of me as and
what especially and when it comes to what I am
limited to, a lot of people think that I exist
solely in the box that they first heard me in
an association with a murder that I didn't do, and

(03:21):
so if they ever hear of me existing outside of
that story and outside of that space, I people get
frustrated at me, like they're like, stop existing outside of
this box that I have you nicely labeled in in
my mind, Like you don't get to go on and
and be a mom and get married because I forever
associate you with the death of another young girl. So

(03:43):
I'm always forever going to compare you to that dead
young girl, and everything you do as a person who
is not dead is an insult to her memory. And
that is the kind of thing that I face where
it almost seems like my very existence in some people's

(04:04):
minds is an insult. The fact that I'm not dead
is an insult and um, and that is a great
limitation because it means that, uh, you know, as I
walk through the world as a non anonymous person, I
can't do what normal people do. I can't go on tender,
I can't get a regular job. I can't you know,

(04:25):
do all of those things. And it's extremely isolating. And
so I've been extremely fortunate to meet someone who is
now the father of my child and and create a
life for myself despite those limitations. How did you meet? Um?
We have a great meat cute story. Um, he's a
local author. He's uh, my husband went to graduate school

(04:50):
twice for poetry because once it is not enough. And
then while I was in prison, he was wandering around
the country as an itinerant poet. So that's his history.
I had no idea who he was when I first
met him. In fact, I never even intended to meet
him because at the time, you know, at the time
that he was writing his book, I was living basically

(05:12):
in hiding, and I was only associating with my family
and the friends who I had met before prison, and
like maybe one or two other people who I met
in school who I connected with in like poetry class,
and so I was living a very quiet life. I
was working for a local newspaper um writing arts correspondence,

(05:33):
so going and writing reviews of plays and books from
by local authors. And I was given an advanced copy
of his first novel and I was asked to review it.
So I did, and I it's called War of the Encyclopedists.
It was so funny and smart and tragic and awesome.
And I wrote a great review and then I submitted
it and that was gonna be the end of it,
except like the very next day, I found out that

(05:55):
he was doing a book reading in the local bookstore
right near my apartment, and I thought, huh, maybe this
is the first time that I can go and meet
someone who I've never met before and check out this,
you know, this situation. And I went and I saw
him give this book reading, and I asked him for

(06:15):
an interview, and we had a really fun time. We
talked about Star Trek and and drank scotch and just
sort of hit it off. And at the end of
that he shook my hand and was like, we should
be friends. And you know, it's not a big deal
for him. He didn't follow my case. He was you know,
not a true crime guy. He kind of sort of
knew that people knew about me, but like didn't really care.

(06:37):
He wasn't you know, thinking like, oh, I gotta be
friends with this person. He was just like, hey, we
should be friends, but if we're not whatever. Like that
was fun, and for me it was a really big
deal because this was maybe a month or two after
I had been fully exonerated, and it was the first
time that I was like, wow, maybe I can like

(07:00):
meet people and make friends in the real world like
a normal person. And I did, and we became friends
and then bound like nine months later we started dating,
and we started dating in so I guess it's been
five years and now we have a five month old baby.
Can you live a life where you go to the

(07:20):
pumpkin patch with your daughter and go to the mall
or go to public places and exists as Amanda Knox,
the mother, the wife, that the family person who's a writer.
I mean, what is that like for you? I mean
I keep trying right like I nothing, despite the fact
that I've definitely encountered problems before. Like you know, when

(07:45):
I got married, it became a tabloid story. And when
I had a kid, and you know, it became a
tabloid story. So I definitely, um, I'm still considered a
tabloid story and a lot of people's minds and my
ongoing sort of private life is still considered content for people,

(08:05):
even though it's not in the public interest and I
don't feel like it is. I feel like my private
life is often exploited by by tabloids to this day.
That doesn't stop me from living my life, and I
feel like that's been sort of crucial to me being
able to reintegrate well into society and and to build

(08:26):
a life for myself because I've always pushed back against
what people have said I'm not allowed to do, like
I'm not allowed to be I'm not allowed to meet people,
I'm not allowed to go out. I'm I'm supposed to
sort of live in the shadow of this horrible experience
that happened to me, and and that's it. That's my life.

(08:46):
And I've always said, you know, like, it's not my life,
and that's not who I am. Who I am has
nothing to do with the fact that I was wrongly
accused of murder. In fact, it has everything to do
with the people who accused me of murder, and it
has nothing to do with me, and who I am
is what I do now. So I'm going to do
the best I can with the circumstances that were given me,

(09:08):
and I'm going to let that be the thing that
defines me. And talking about what you are now in
your career, you're a storyteller, you're a writer, you're a podcaster,
How did you envision building a career when you came home? Like,
how do you even begin to think about doing that? Because,
like you said, it's not like you can go like
interview for a job. No, And indeed, like even the
idea of like how did you envision that? Like, I

(09:30):
haven't really been able to envision anything. I've more been
sort of being present and aware of what sort of
presents itself to me, and I try to create the
best opportunities out of those circumstances as I can in
the moment. But even for me, like and I think
a lot of millennials and younger people feel this is

(09:51):
they often feel like they have to adapt to an
ever changing environment and that the world is a lot
more difficult than it used to be intern of like
how to you know, build a career, and that's especially
difficult for me because in a lot of ways, I
don't want to be, for instance, tied down to a
public space where people where I can reliably be found

(10:13):
because I received death threats, so I don't want somebody
to find out where I work and then find out
where I live and all of that. So instead embracing
opportunities that allowed me to have the um not just
you know, freedom to work from home, but the like
the opportunity to feel safe because I work from home.

(10:34):
And oftentimes those opportunities have presented themselves because someone was
kind enough to offer me the opportunity to prove my
worth and in And it started with being offered the
opportunity to write for a local newspaper, and that turned
into writing some articles for women's magazine for Vice called Broadly,

(10:59):
and that turned in to doing a show for Facebook
called The Scarlet Letter Reports, where I interviewed women who
had been publicly vilified, and that turned into me doing
a podcast called The Truth About True Crime, where I
examined the way that criminal like criminal justice has been
portrayed in stories about crime, have been portrayed in the

(11:21):
media and put centralizing the stories of the or the
voices of the people who find themselves at the center
of those stories. What do they think about the way
that they have been portrayed? And that turned into my
latest venture, which is the podcast Labyrinths that I right
produce do everything with my husband, Christopher, and that's been

(11:41):
really fun because I love working with my husband. I
love talking to people about when they have felt lost
and how they have found their way through overwhelming experiences.
I've had the opportunity to talk to some really cool people,
including people who I think are just awesome, like Brent
Spiner Data come on, like, that's amazing. Became full circle.

(12:02):
We talked about Star Trek when my husband and I
first met, and now we're going we're working our way
through the cast of TN and now a quick break.
How do you deal with personal safety? I think that
that's one of the things that anyone who has experienced
what you have. How do you get back to a
place of normalcy and not letting it overcome all of

(12:26):
your decisions? Yeah, and not letting it become something that
you crazily obsess over and are paranoid about like that.
That's the interesting thing is it's um you know, it's
only crazy and paranoid if you haven't received death threats
or if you you know, if you've never had someone
break into your home and murder your roommate, exactly, you

(12:46):
have all the reasons afraid. Exactly. Yeah. Well, I I
don't invite people to my home unless I trust them.
That's a big thing. And it has occasionally occurred where
somebody has found out where I live and showed up,
and I do not react well to that, even if
they're a journalist who says that they're supportive and they

(13:08):
just want to talk. It's like, do not show up
at my house unannounced. That's not cool with me. Um,
They're like, I don't have many spaces in the world
where I'm just allowed to be a private person, and
my home is like the one place, so just don't
violate that all the same, Like, you know, I'm not

(13:31):
living in you know, the backwoods in Montana where lived
down a really, really long dirt road, And it's not
like I don't have relationships with my neighbors, because I do.
I'm trying to live as normal a life as possible
while also allowing the gift of fear to inform my decisions.
About when and how I invite people into my personal space.

(13:55):
Your family and friends seemed so incredible and extraordinary through
your entire ordeal. I mean, even your friend Madisine moved
to Italy just to see you one hour every week
or two. I mean, the resilience of those relationships you
had was so extraordinary. And one thing that struck me
was how you kept them too. I guess it was

(14:17):
like six people who you know, beyond your extended family,
who you really relied on, What role did they play,
and then what kind of relationships you have with those
people today? Yeah, I mean so my family has always
been very close um. I've also um tended to cultivate
few but close friendships with people, and that translated into,

(14:41):
you know, people who were just there with me through
thick and thin, and it was one of the reasons
why I think that I have been able to reintegrate
back into society better than a lot of people who
come out of prison because I didn't feel alone. I
did feel like i um in being wrongly convicted, I

(15:03):
suddenly lost my belonging to the sort of member I
didn't lose membership to humanity. These were people who knew me,
who cared about me, who belonged, who knew that I
belonged with them, and I was part of their community
even if I had been removed, and so I was
able to come back and rejoin that community all the same,

(15:26):
Like I didn't come back the same person, and I
didn't come back to a world that treated me the
same way. And so in a lot of ways, my
my relationship with my family and friends have evolved too
since then, because we in a way had to relearn

(15:46):
and rediscover each other um after I came home, because
we had all been changed, not just me, like everyone
in my family my friends had all been traumatized by
what happened, and we all have reacted to that trauma
in different ways. So like it's it's interesting to see
how since we it's not just me but my sisters

(16:08):
and my friends who grew up in this overwhelmingly traumatic experience,
how we have all reacted to it in different ways.
Your family had to mortgage their homes to defend you
to travel to Italy. What role has money played in
your life? Well, growing up, I never had to worry

(16:28):
about it, um, not because my family was spectacularly wealthy,
but because we were You know, my dad had a
job as an accountant at the Bon Marche, and my
mom was a school teacher, and we always had food
on the table, and when my mom was too busy
or too tired to make dinner, we would walk over
to myoma's house and she would make dinners. So I

(16:49):
had never in my life had felt like money was
this incredible burden or struggle. I still had to earn it.
Like before going to Perusia, um I had three jobs
that I was working in order to save money in
order to spend a year abroad. But that didn't feel
like that was again like an incredible burden. It just

(17:10):
seemed like that was just what you did. And then um,
I came home and I was over a million dollars
in debt, in debt to my family, in debt to
my attorneys. I was in ongoing debt because of the
trial was not over. And I I very gratefully, was

(17:32):
able to sell a memoir and with that money pay
back my parents, pay back my attorneys, pay back the
publicist who had assisted my family over the course of
the years, and I was able to go back to school.
And so it's interesting there was this weird period of
my life where I had so many zeros to account

(17:55):
for and and now I'm I'm living a regular their
middle income person's life. I have a Patreon for my podcast,
like you know that, It's like it's real. So are
you and are you still in debt or you have
you climbed your way out of that. I've definitely climbed
out of out of legal debt for sure, and I

(18:15):
was able to pay for school, so that was the
big thing. I was able to get back to ground
zero speaking of you know, coming home and being in
all the legal debt and continuing to fight and all
the things you had to deal with. You addition to
being a storyteller, also work on criminal justice reform, and
part of that is through storytelling, because I think that
one of the things that's a really big obstacle for

(18:36):
people who are not personally impacted by the criminal justice
system is feeling like they can't relate to it, like, oh,
you know, I grew up in an environment where I
just sort of assumed that bad people go to prison
and good people never have to worry about it, And
it's much more complicated than that. Even if like the

(18:57):
criminal justice system only ever interacted with people who had
in fact committed crimes, which it doesn't. It also is
the way that we deal with people who have harmed
others is I have witnessed firsthand imperfect and has led
to more harm in the long run, because we are

(19:22):
not doing things to first of all, reciipate people who
are sorry, to rehabilitate people who have committed harm, to
address the fact that a lot of people who commit
crimes and harm others have been harmed prior to having
committed crimes. UM, we do very little in the criminal
justice system to address the needs of victims of crime.

(19:45):
We often put them on the spot and don't offer
them resources and support, and put them in a position
of feeling like they're at the service of the criminal
justice system, and the criminal justice system isn't at their service.
So in lot of ways, we rely on punishing the um,
the person who committed the harm, instead of rehabilitating the

(20:07):
person who has been harmed. Like all of these different
ways that our criminal justice system is this hammer that
treats everything like a nail and is committing harms in
the process. UM is something that I can only is
a complicated thing that I can only convey through the

(20:28):
human like through human storytelling, and so talking about the
people that I met in prison, and talking about the
experience of what it's like to be in a police
interrogation room, and bringing sort of helping others who have
been wrongly convicted find their voice and share their stories,
and to offer a new perspective on cases where people

(20:51):
have been very, very harshly judged, whether they're a victim
or a perpetrator. Those are things that I feel like
I have a unique perspective and skillful that I'm really
grateful to bring to the table. Do you listen to
true crime podcasts? Um? So? I listen um to true

(21:14):
crime podcasts in part like almost as like homework, because
I don't listen to them for enjoyment purposes. I listened
to them because I want to understand how crime is
being talked about and whether or not we are learning
from our past mistakes in the way that we talk

(21:34):
about crime. And so I especially when a true crime
podcast becomes really popular, or like a true crime documentary
becomes really popular, I pay attention because I'm trying to
gauge the temperature of if people even realize what it
is they're consuming and why they are consuming it. A
great example of this is like Tiger King. Tiger King

(21:57):
was huge, tremendously success usful, everyone had watched it. It
was so freaking entertaining. It was also in a lot
of ways really unethical because it was it indulged in
flagrant speculation about Carol Baskin's involvement in her husband's murder
on not really any evidence whatsoever. And it may be

(22:20):
the case that that was something that was worth looking into,
but the way that people responded to that documentary acting
like they knew for sure that Carol Baskin had murdered
her husband, and people were doing dances on TikTok talking
about how Carol Baskin murdered her husband, and people were
holding up signs out in the world being like Carol
Baskin killed her husband. Like that gave me pause. How

(22:43):
there was almost like a glee in the speculation and
the false sense of authority that we all could take
away from a documentary saying like, this is who this
person is, and this is this horrible crime that she committed,
and now I feel entitled to broadcast that to the
world Like that really troubled me. If you didn't have

(23:03):
the infamy that follows you, and you didn't have you know,
Amanda Knox, which means so many things to so many people.
At this point, what career would you pursue if you
had the world as your oyster? I mean, it's it's
an interesting question because I don't often speculate about if

(23:23):
my life were different than it already is. Um But
what I do know is that way back when I
went to study abroad and Parusia, what I really wanted
to do was to be an interpreter and to be
a translator. And so, you know, knowing myself, I feel
like my ideal situation would be I would be reading
Italian novels and translating them into English, and I would,

(23:47):
you know, like I would be traveling a lot to
do so, and that would be my That was my
ideal life before everything happened. I sense feel like I'm
translating in a different way. I'm translating experience and like
knowledge differentials between groups of people. Because again, I really

(24:09):
do feel like I lived in this really safe bubble
growing up where I felt like I the criminal justice
system didn't really have anything to do with me, and
I never had to think about it, and today I
realized that that that is the opposite of the truth,
and that all of us should be concerned about what's
happening in the criminal justice system, not because not just

(24:31):
because we could be on you know, inadvertently wrapped up
in it, but because we are all implicated in how
it treats real human beings and what it means for
our society. It really matters. We all have a say
and we all have a responsibility to pay attention to it.
And now a quick break, Well, we want to make

(24:53):
sure that we have time for our speed round, and
then Luke Burns are going to come in with is
a final question, what are you reading right now? I'm
reading a book about mindfulness. It's a it's a meditation book.
What are you writing right now right now? Besides episodes
of my podcast labyrinths Um, I'm also working on a

(25:15):
m a book about other people who have been have
had their stories turned into entertainment products without their consent.
So I'm looking into stories like that. Oh and I
forgot to mention the other thing that I'm reading right
now that we just started, me and my husband just
started reading was Um Batman comic book The Dark Night.

(25:37):
What is your nighttime routine? Which is a hard question
to ask the mother of a five months Ye say,
waking up three times? No? UM. My nighttime routine is
usually UM. Once I put baby down, my husband and
I tune out to UM, either some weird al music

(25:57):
or UM. We watch a show like Community or something
like that. We like to UM. We really enjoy humor
and comedy because we often are dealing with really serious
things in our day to day job, and so we
like to UM settle down with humor. If you had
to call one motto your life motto, what would it be?

(26:20):
It's a hard one because I feel like the trouble
with mottos is I don't feel like they always work
in every situation, Like you know, hang in there doesn't
always work. I have a feeling that would not be
your motto. Spent the last hour with you, UM, do

(26:45):
what you can with what you have when you can.
That kind of thing. All right, lou All I was
thinking is like finally a different perspective or wrongful convictions,
you know, like a real life different perspective because your
situation didn't happen in America. It happened in a totally

(27:06):
different country, So it shows how we are. It's very
much alike as human beings, right where we where we
use a circumstance and a and a and a situation
and we create the outcome, even though that really didn't happen.
Did you see when they see us, it's a it's
a Netflix. So in that sense, I'm I'm you're actually
just a few um, just just one year older than me.

(27:27):
I learned about it through Netflix, so just watching them,
like how could people do that to people? You know?
So in the sense of prior to being charged with
the murder, how did you feel about when people said
I'm innocent? I mean I never thought about it because
I didn't have to because it never you know, Like
that's that's the really troubling thing is that I don't

(27:50):
think that people what I what I understood was that
when people are accused of crimes, it's because there's a
good reason that they were accused of crimes that we
should trust. When when people are accused, and there are
a lot of all, the only thing that guilty people
say is that they're innocent. And it's interesting, like I

(28:13):
also had not really heard about the Central Park five
because I feel like we were too young when it
was actually going on. But I met them like, I
know them like and um, and when I heard about
their story, I was insanely shocked because once again one
of those really tragic cases of there's absolutely no physical

(28:34):
evidence whatsoever. We just want a guilty party, and so
we're going to force these We're going to force these
kids to implicate themselves, and we're going to tie a
neat little judicial bow on top of them and forget
about them in the criminal justice system. And this was
not something that I ever thought about prior to all

(28:54):
of this. And the way that the way that we
use just kind of naturally as human beings mothering, So
the way that you look at another human being and
you decide that they are not like you, and you
can therefore judge them and dehumanize them through the process
of accusation and create a character about them that justifies

(29:18):
our sort of hatred for them and our and our
desire to punish them. That is something that was shocking
for me to experience firsthand and which has stayed with
me forever. And you're right, like, one of the weird
things about my case is that a lot of people
have heard about it, even though I'm really an outlier

(29:40):
when it comes to these cases, Like I'm a college
educated white girl. You almost never see a college educated
white girl accused of murder, So that interestingly gives me
a sort of empathy and um for those who have
been accused of murder, um who are who like are

(30:02):
happened to be like. That happens to be in a
real concern for them because it happens to them a lot,
and in this case, we're talking about young, disenfranchised men.
Like the vast majority of the people that I've met
who have been wrongly convicted have been poor men and
men of color. And it's um a really interesting family

(30:24):
to belong to, because I know that one of the
reasons why I'm an effective advocate in some ways is
because people look at me and they see their daughter
instead of someone who looks different than them. And that's
sad that that's a human nature thing, but it does
mean that I feel a great sense of responsibility and

(30:46):
duty to share that this is happening to real people
who are really innocent, and they deserve to have their
freedom thought for that is what to start a season. Yeah.
I mean I think that what's so incredible about Amanda's
story is in many ways it relates to sort of

(31:09):
anything you're going through in life. Is that like she
completely controlled her perspective on what was happening to her.
It was the only thing she could control was her mindset,
and she decided, like I am now going to see
the people in prison around me as my community, and
I'm going to figure out how I can make the
most of this community and how I can contribute to

(31:32):
this community. It was just, I mean, so motivational. I
still get chills thinking about it. I am sitting here,
you can see me, but I'm almost crying thinking about that.
That part of our conversation. I mean, for this young
woman who has been convicted of crime she didn't commit
who you know, like she said, like she was also

(31:52):
convicted by the world right by this, like this the
court of public opinion. And she still is I know,
I know she still is. For her to say your point,
for her to say, like I looked around and I thought,
this is where I am, this is who I am,
this is my life, and what is it Like very
few people have within them the ability to do that
it's remarkable. And she's also struck me with just she's

(32:15):
so bright and she's just so inteltent, and the fact
that she really can't apply for a normal job, she
can't go on Tinder, she can't take her kid to Disneyland,
like all of the things that we take for granted
as just like normal, everyday things. She still has this
scarlet letter on her forever because so many people never

(32:37):
followed it, right, And I think that goes to this
broad question that we talked about with her. It's like,
how do you come back from Italy and even begin
to rebuild a life? But she did, and she is
and she's still she still is, right Like, it's this
ongoing process. And I think one thing that's you know,
blows me away even more about Amanda is the work
she does with the Innocence Project and other organizations, Because

(32:59):
while Amanda Case has this global notoriety, there are a
lot of people in America who go to prison and
have to come out and rebuild their lives as well.
And it's hard for everybody, right Like, that is a
really difficult thing to do. We've made it hard in
this country, and I think it's really powerful that she
works on that issue. Oh, I love that she works
in this issue, and it's something you and I are
both so passionate about prisoner form and how flawed our

(33:21):
our justice system is and the way we treat the
incarcerated and the lack of rehabilitation. But I think that,
you know, one of the things that I can't stop
thinking about with her cases that in many ways, like
because it was so public the way it was, it
just was seared into everyone's mind. There are so many

(33:41):
people who never followed the case and just remember her
as the guilty one, as opposed to you know, getting
the four year leader follow up of oh, she's been exonerated,
like a lot of people just moved on topics, and
so wherever she goes, she is recognized by certain people
who don't know the story. And I just think that

(34:02):
must be just crushing. So often, just crushing to deal
with that on a daily basis, I cannot imagine. I think,
you know, there's a sentiment, and I know the Italian
legal system is very different than the American legal system,
but even in the American legal system, you have this sentiment.
It's really based on this right that you're innocent until
proven guilty. But in the modern world with media, with

(34:23):
the internet, once you're accused, it defines so much of
your story forever. And I think it's just really important
that people hear Amanda's story today, that they hear what happened,
what life is like now, like how she's rebuilt things,
and and just the injustice of it all right, like

(34:44):
we shall sit with it. Absolutely. I think, even after
listening to these two episodes, I encourage you to read
her book because the details in her book of of
really just the trial and the fact that it was
only five weeks after she arrived in Italy. I mean,
we you know, I'm a mother now of a sixteen
year old Amanda was only a few years older than

(35:06):
that when this happened. It's it's just almost impossible to believe,
you know, your child goes for a semester abroad and
five weeks later is accused of a crime they didn't commit.
It's it's really the unthinkable. And I'm just really curious
as to what Amanda is going to do next day.
I know she's podcasting now and and writing, but I
think that something extraordinary is going to be in store

(35:28):
for her. I just I'm so overwhelmed by just how
extraordinary a person she is, and I was so impressed
by her say and I look forward to supporting her
and and whatever comes next. Thanks for listening to What's
Her Story with Sam and Amy. We would appreciate it
if you leave her review wherever you get your podcasts,

(35:51):
and of course, connect with us on social media at
What's Her Story podcast. What's Her Story with Sam and
Amy is powered by my company, The Riveter at the
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park place Payments dot com. Thanks to our producer Stacy
Parra and our male perspective Blue Burns h