September 24, 2020 • 32 mins
What's Her Story talks to media mogul and entrepreneur Arianna Huffington. As a mom of two grown daughters and the founder of both Huffington Post and Thrive Global, Ariannas has experience and opinions on everything from sleep and parenting to running a business. She chats openly with Sam and Amy about being liked, hiring mistakes, and Taylor Swift.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. This is
What's Her Story with Sam and Amy. If you were
just finding us now, please go back to listen to
our epic first two episodes, a conversation with power couple
Olympian Abby Wombach and author Glennon Doyle together from the
goose bumps worthy love story of how they met to
(00:25):
talk about equal pay. You won't want to miss it,
you know. Sam and I created this podcast in this
community because we care about the stories of women, women
like Glennon and Abbey and women like you. So you
can join us at What's Her Story podcast dot com
and there you can sign up for our newsletter, find
our Facebook, Instagram LinkedIn all the good stuff Today, though,
(00:48):
we are so proud to bring you Arianna Huffington's. You
all know Arianna. She has a larger than life personality
and a larger than life journey to match it. I'm
kind of fascinated with aria Anna. She she built a
media empire. She was married to a man who left
her for a man. She ran for office and lost.
(01:09):
She started a new company, Thrive, that is thriving. She
just she has a huge life and she is really inspirational,
and I think so much of it will come across
in this interview. I loved talking with Arianna and I'm
really excited to share this. One of the things like
really resonated with me about the conversation that we had
and that you'll hear, is that in all of Arianna's journey,
(01:31):
which Sam just went through, she's had a lot of pivots,
but what led her to start thrive was what she
calls like an epiphany that she had about her life
where everything changed for her. UM. And you know, Sam
and I were talking about epiphanys the other day and
I had one that was just so clear about my
own career. I was a lawyer for a decade. I
(01:52):
really thought I'd be a lawyer forever UM. Even though
as it is at times not the most fun career,
it was what I had signed up to do. And
when I became a mother, like everything just completely changed
for me. If you're new to our podcast, I have
four daughters who are six, four, three, and one, So
I have all of the daughters that everybody needs. You
(02:13):
can all borrow one if you'd like, but anyway, like
for me, when I became a working mother, I just
kind of looked around for the first time and I said,
where are the working mothers above me in the legal
profession at my law firm that I can talk to
about how they did this, how they made it work.
And the thing is sam like, there weren't me. There
were one or two out of a hundred. And that
(02:33):
was just shocking to me. And I remember thinking very clearly,
like why am I buying into this system? It's if
it's really clear to me that this system is not
going to buy into me. And that just led me
down a path, you know, over the course of a
year and a half that that ended in me starting
my own company, The Riveter. But so so Amy, take
a step back for a second. So you walked into
(02:54):
the office one day and just decided like, this is it.
I'm going to take this huge risk after having this
very conservative corporate career. Well, it was kind of like
a two step process for me. I went back to
my law firm after my first parental leave. I hate
saying maternity leave. It was a parental leave and I've
been back for like a couple of weeks, and I
remember I was walking from pumping milk to the refrigerator
(03:17):
to put my milk in the law firm refrigerator, which
just like didn't feel like the right place for me
to be or it to be. It just didn't feel
like I belonged. And I went back into my office
and I was like, I wanted to talk to someone
about it. So I went on the people Find Her
from my office and tried to find some working moms
who I knew maybe we're in the office, and who
had been in the same situation, and there was like
(03:39):
one or two, and there's all these pictures of men,
and I was like, I don't want to do this anymore.
I don't I want to have more kids. I don't
want to be in this situation. And so then I
was like, well, maybe what I should do is go
in house. Maybe there'll be more working moms if I
go in house as a lawyer than it's law firm
as a litigator. So I did that, and it just
still didn't feel right. And then I thought about, like,
(03:59):
where can I and more working models? Where do I
find women who are doing this? And the thing is
is that like I don't know. I read the statistic
in len In once that's something like like of working
moms off ramp at some point in their career, and
and I realized that it just wasn't the system wasn't
built for working moms, and so I wanted to build
a different system. And that is why I left this
(04:21):
This this stressful thing to me, and just hearing this
story is obviously you made the right decision. You ended
up being this smashing success entrepreneur. But there's so many
women who leave and just stop working. And that is
for me personally, like a real cause of mine is
I want to help find a way to keep those
(04:42):
women in the workforce, even just lifestyle wise, like so
much of it is about who you marry, who you
couple with. Are you're better off being a single mom
than being a mom married to someone who expects you
to do of the work at home. So so much
of this is it's just a complicated conversation because every
time a talented woman leave the firm like that, there's
fewer people for the younger women to look up to
(05:04):
and see as role models. And you know, so I
think it's a combination of both structural change we need,
but we also need lifestyle changes. We need women to
make better choices in who they couple with. We need
them to, you know, stay in the game and find
ways to do it. It's it is just so layered
and complicated. Um And it's funny because in talking to Ariana,
(05:27):
I really felt like she is someone who just keeps
charging ahead despite the challenges. I am really excited for
you all to get to know her the way we did.
And uh, we're eager to hear what you think. So again,
please do do leave your comments, let us know and
connect with us on our website. All right, and without
(05:48):
much further ado, let's jump in and here from Ariana.
In two thousand seven, you had a big epip any
can you tell us about that. I was two years
into building the Huffington Post and the divorced mother of
(06:10):
two teenage daughters and totally thinking I could power through anything,
and I collapsed, hit my head on my desk on
the way down, broke my cheekbone. And in a way
that was really an incredible gift. It made it possible
(06:30):
for me to really delve into burn out as a
global epidemic and how it was affecting hundreds of millions
of people around the world. And I started covering all
these topics at the Huffington Post, and finally in twenty sixteen,
I decided to leave to launch Drive Global to help
(06:53):
people move from awareness to action. Mhm, how how are
you different today than you were before? You know, it's
kind of amazing and Amy, I feel that I'm much
more effective and productive because I am starting my day
(07:18):
of the time really recharged and I thrive. We have
this um sixty second resets during the day, you know,
based on the science that tells us that it takes
sixty to ninety seconds to course correct from stress. And
(07:39):
as you know, if you think of your day, the
problem is not stressed. The problem is stressed becoming cumulative.
And so if we can have the sixty second resets
and let go of the cortis are hormone from our bodies,
it's kind of amazing because it means we can end
our day who without feeling exhausted and and wound up.
(08:06):
You know, when you're so wound up you you feel
you cannot really unwind and be able to sleep with it. Although, Arianna,
after reading your book, I really do think it sounds
like your mom did not have stress. I mean, the
way she ran her life was a little bit stress free.
And I know your sister at GOPA. I've met her
(08:27):
a number of times and she seems to embody a
lot of that as well. Yes, I think a lot
of it has to do with being really good at
cost correcting. Reset is my favorite feature in our Behavior
Change Up, which is not available for consumers. It's only
an enterprise product for companies. But in the up we
(08:52):
ask our users to create their own reset guide, which
is things that are jointrick yours father, you know, pictures
of their kids, their pets, favorite quote nature, and there
is a breathing pacer, and you can also pick your
(09:13):
favorite song or piece of music. My favorite song right
now is Taylor Swift. You Need to Calm Down. The
only actually the world's research. It's pretty amazing and so
but what is great is that if you're stressed, you
can just literally play at any time and it reminds
(09:36):
you of all the things that bring you joy in
your life that you are grateful for, and gratitude is
the greatest antidote to stress and anxiety. Arianna, can you
talk about the transition from Huffington Posts to Thrive and
how that all happened. I was covering all these issues
(10:00):
relentlessly at the Hufington Post. By twenty sixteen, in fact,
fifty percent of our traffic west come was coming from
these topics rather than politics. But I felt it was
not enough. I had a lot of people saying, I
know I need to be getting more sleep, and I
know I know I need to change my mental habits, etcetera.
(10:23):
But how do I do it? So that required building
a company that could actually have a behavior change product,
and by twenty sixteen I felt so passionate that that's
what I wanted to do for the rest of my life.
(10:43):
So I left and worked with many behavior scientists, with
an amazing board and a group of advisors, and and
we launched this behavior change product which is divided into
four journeys. And the first is recharge which is sleep
(11:06):
and the reset sixty second resets that I mentioned. The
second journey is fuel. You know, what do we eat
and how do we move? And we break it all
down into microsteps, like it's not like I'm going to
go to the gym when we could go to the
gym manori day, it's I'm going to walk between meetings.
(11:31):
It's like all broken down to what we call microsteps
too small to fail. I love that line small to
fail that. The third journey is connect you know, how
can we connect to around center of peace, resilience, and
(11:51):
strength and from that place connect to our empathy and
connect to those around us. And the final journeys focused,
which is particularly important right now because we're finding that
in times of stress and anxiety, people have a harder
time focusing, and so we have a lot of microsteps
(12:15):
around reducing destructions. UM. For example, one of the micro
steps is ending all notifications coming to your phone, because
who needs to halve breaking news notifications? Whenever you want
to go get the news, you go get the news.
(12:36):
So these journeys basically show us how we interconnected we are.
It's now, if we don't get enough sleep, we're going
to crave bad carbs and sugars. And if we keep
being anxious and we're not going to sleep well, So
(12:57):
everything is interconnected. You start to drive in your sixte Yeah,
it's hard to start a company. UM, I have started
one and I'm three years in and I'm exhausted. So
how do you How do you find time yourself? Which
of these four areas you focus on the most? What
helps you well. For me, sleep is foundational and I've
(13:21):
written a whole book on it, The Sleep Revolution, about
the science of sleep why it is foundational. So I
make a point of getting the sleep I need, which
is eight hours I would say nine of the time.
You know, it doesn't matter what occasionally happens when you
don't get a full night sleep. What matters is chronically
(13:44):
what happens. And and I find the difference that I
wake up fully recharged, and I think of so much
of my life when I was literally exhausted and powering
through like a zombie through my day, and also thinking
that that's normal, which is not. And when I look
(14:06):
back every mistake I made, I could totally trace it
back to exhaustion. I mean every hiring mistake. You know,
as an entrepreneur, some of the biggest mistakes we make
are hiring mistakes. So now I have a rule that
I never interview when I'm tired, because when you're tired,
(14:27):
you really miss, yeah, and the red flags, you miss
the things that are not being said that you should
be paying attention to. And what what kind of people
do you hire? Oh, we say, I thrive that we
like to hire owners. You know, people who are owners,
(14:47):
not people who are waiting to be told what to do,
but who have that ownership mentality. And also our number
one cultural value is compassionate directness. So that's very important
for us in terms of the culture we're building. You know,
(15:08):
anytime you are closely with people, there will be things
you disagree with. There will be things that that may
upset you or frustrate you. As long as these things
are expressed, there's no problem. You know, we can deal
with anything that is. That's such a great point. Now,
(15:29):
I would imagine there's a lot of pressure that comes
with talking about a healthy lifestyle that people expect you
to live, a life that is constantly measuring up to
that image. Is that something that makes you feel pressure
or what is that like for you? How do you?
(15:49):
How do you manage it? Oh? No, I never thought
of that, because I love that, and you know, I
I do what I know. But oath from the latest
science and from the ancient wisdom that we cover a
lot on thrive and and I'm personally kind of in
(16:11):
love with and that that's the best way to live
your life. And I find that the difference, the contrast
in terms of how productive I am how joyful and
how healthy I mean our seventy in July. So I
think also to know that how we live our lives
(16:33):
can dramatically affect our health. We are dealing with the
skyrocketing increased in chronic diseases diabetes, hypertension, obesity, and se
of these diseases are behavior based. So that's why I thrive.
(16:53):
We've been so passionate about cracking this huge challenge of
behavior change. Changing behavior is hard, speaking about changing behavior
on a different level and maybe societal behavior and the
way we view the world. You are a very powerful woman.
You have started multiple companies, You're a thought leader for
(17:13):
many people. I think powerful women can still be somewhat
of a complicated proposition. Do you care about being liked?
I don't think that people are set out to be disliked,
But I always say that if you U want to
do things that have an impact, you're going to ruffle feathers.
(17:35):
Not everybody is going to agree with you, and if
you are not comfortable with that, that could be a problem.
And one of the things that changes as I got
older is that you are not looking over your shoulder
for approval, and that's so so kind of liberating. In
(17:55):
the end, the most important thing is for us to
to be comfortable with ourselves, to see ourselves as a
work in progress, no matter what age we are. You know,
we are constantly can be getting better and better in
every respect. It's never ending. But also, especially women, I
(18:19):
think we have that tendency and that's definitely been a
big part of my life to have that voice of
self doubt and self judgment, you know that that I
called the obnoxious roommate living in my head, and and
being able to deal with that voice and not take
(18:40):
it seriously. It is so key. A lot of people
who look at your career today might think, oh, look
at her, she just rose to the top. It was easy, breezy.
But you one of the things I admire about you
is that you do take risks, and along the way
you have had setbacks. What was it like to only
run for governor of California but to lose an election? Oh,
(19:05):
that was kind of an amazing time. It was. It
was a strange election, It only lasted less than two months.
It was very call election. But one was amazing is
how much I learned from this failure, because that was
the time when I saw new media and coming to
(19:27):
the forefround and the power that it can have, and
and frankly, without that experience, I wouldn't have launched the
Huffington Post and years later. So I love when I
speak or when I write to talk about my failures
and and talk about how, as my mother used to say,
(19:51):
failure is not the opposite of success. It's a stepping
stone to success, and how often something that's a failure
can need to the best thing that could have happened.
So in the late nine nineties you said that the
right left divisions are so outdated. Now you said, for me,
the primary division is between people who are aware of
(20:13):
what I call the two Nations written for and those
who are not. Do you still find that statement meant
to be true today? I really believe that there is
fundamental difference between people who revere facts and the truth
and people who don't. I think that's like a huge difference.
(20:34):
And also I wrote a whole book on the two
Nations called Third World America. And we've been talking for
a long time about the growing inequalities in our country,
but we haven't really done enough about this. So for me,
these are like the two big issues of course right now,
(20:55):
you know, we're living in a different world where you know,
the Republican Party unfortunately does not have a lot of
respect for facts and and so you know, we are
on our way to a major and and pretty fundamentally
(21:16):
important election. But I also feel that we are at
the moment when we're all recognizing that we need to
expand our own circle of concern beyond ourselves and our
own families to include our communities and those most in need.
So you you've been able to if we shift to
(21:37):
the personal front, you've been able to really create a
pretty incredible relationship. It sounds like with your ex husband,
which I know a lot of people struggle with, how
how are you able to do that? And what advice
would you have for other people that are struggling with that?
So obviously it wasn't easy. You know, if you get divorced,
it means clearly that there are things that make you angry,
(22:03):
there are things that really upset you. But if you
have children together, Um, what I tell everyone and have
written a lot about, is there is the importance of
making your children the most fundamental part in that relationship.
(22:25):
Because given that over fifty percent of marriages and then
in divorce, the biggest casualties are the children. So, um,
I've written about how Mike's husband and I and our
kids go on vacation together, we have holidays together. It's
(22:45):
much easier now because our children are older. But um,
it's something essential and I find that that it makes
a big difference for their children if you don't allow
them to be um kind of weapons in that relationship. So,
my parents are divorced and I have the same relationship
(23:06):
with both of my parents. We do vacations together, holidays together,
and it's we're still a family even though my parents
aren't married to each other. And it's amazing. Yes, that's
so rare. It is rare, but I think we need
to make it less rare. I agree, especially given how
prevalent divorces like it is a likely outcome and so
we need to find a way to build these modern families.
But speaking of your modern family, you have two amazing
(23:29):
adult daughters. What is this is a leading question as
a former lawyer, I'll admit that, but what is your
favorite part about this stage of parenting of having adult daughters? Oh,
I feel the the the best thing about it is
how close we are and how they're my best friends.
(23:49):
You know, both my daughters went through a lot of problems.
You know, one got involved in drugs. She's been sobernough
for nine years. That's amazing. One went through a lexis.
So I tell all the all the moms that you know,
it does get better. And now to have been through
that and have that self awareness and and the ability
(24:15):
to talk about everything with each other is such an
incredible gift. And I was very like I had it
with my mother and now I have it with my daughters.
What would you say to people who want to create
that relationship but are struggling because there's so many parents
who struggle and they can only feel the struggle and
they can't see beyond that. So what were the things
(24:38):
that helped to get through that and build such a
strong relationship in the future. I think the most important
thing was really what my mother taught me, which was
the sense of unconditional loving and so that my daughters
knew that when they made mistakes, when things were tough,
(25:00):
I didn't love them any less and I was there
to help them deal through everything. And I think that
was the most important thing. It's the gift my mother
gave me, and so that at the same time that
she made me feel that I could name for the
stars and if I failed along the way, she wouldn't
(25:20):
love me any less. Um, it's that combination of giving
you the wings to fly, but knowing that you have
a safe haven in her. Sam. I have to say, so,
my kids are a little bit younger than Sam's. My
kids are between the ages of fourteen months and six
and Sam's are older. Say, I'm not similar advice you've
(25:41):
given me, which is pretty pretty awesome. Kids are teenagers, right, Sam? Yeah,
I have fourteen or twelve and a ten year old. Yes,
which actually during the pandemic has been helpful in terms
of my work because you know, they can they're not
always needing my attention. But I also feel terribly for
(26:03):
them because this is a big part of their childhood
that they're missing, whether it's the beginning of high school
or the beginning of middle school. Um, what is your
advice during the pandemic, because so many people are really
struggling with happiness and just you know, this new way
of life. What what what advice do you have for people?
So I believe that the pandemic is really a portal
(26:27):
to look at the things that were not working in
the world we've left behind and Marie Konda lives if
you want, and so that we can focus in the
new world we're imagining and building on what's working. One
of the things that was not working that, of course
(26:49):
Thrive I Bill thrive to to counter is that frenetic,
breathless way of living, when everybody is in a perpetual
state of frenzy, and to think that that's how life
is meant to be is really sad. And I think
we are realizing that now and that's one of the
(27:12):
best changes that that can happen. You know, this is
a terrible time of trial. You know, I'm not minimizing
the losses of life, of and of jobs. But at
the same time, it's a it's a catalyst that I
hope we lead to a very different way of working
(27:33):
and living. I agree with you. I think it is
a time of so much grief and heart set and
it's a time to reevaluate our lives. It's an end.
I think it's both. Um, we only have a few
minutes left, so Sam and I like to do a
bit of a speed round at the end. Quick questions,
quick answers, some not particularly profound, but that we care about.
(27:53):
So what what is your morning routine Arianna? So the
most important part of my morning routine is the microstep
that we have a thrive of not rushing to my phone.
So it's my favorite microstep. Take sixty seconds to remember
(28:14):
what you're grateful for or set your intention for the
day before you go to your phone. And that's what
I do every day. What is a relationship like with money?
So I have a great sense of abundance about money,
which I had even when I had no money. And
(28:36):
that comes from my mother, because you know, I was
born in a one bedroom apartment Monday, Nothing's Greece. We
had no money. But my mother had that sense that
somehow you could keep dreaming and you could make things happen.
So I've always kept that sense that she she brought
(28:57):
to me at a time when um, when times you
are hard. Turning into a different topic, what is the
last book you read? So? I read a book that
I absolutely loved called Mary Magdalene revealed. It's by a
(29:18):
feminist theologian called Megan water Song, and and I was
introduced to her actually by Van Jones, and she's going
to start posting quotes on my Instagram over there over
the weekends so you can get to know her and
(29:40):
and you're going to love her too. Awesome. Well, before
we finished, I just want to give our final question
to lou Our sound engineer, Ludy want to come on
and ask Arianna question, Hi, Lou, Hi, are youanna pleasure
to have you on? How are you today? Much? Very good?
My question is said, well, um, I'm so fascinated with you.
(30:03):
I would like to know what are your selfish desires? Oh,
my selfish desires and my selfless desires are all the same. Um.
I have a lot of desires about my daughters and
and about their ability to go through life without all
the unnecessary anxiety and stress that I I had in
(30:26):
my early years. And also for the world and to
be able to tap into our sense of empathy and
love and bring it into all our relationships beyond ourselves
and our families. Wonderful. Well, on that note, Arianna, thank
you so much. We're invited in by the bell. We
(30:48):
got you to your next thing on time. Thank you
so much. I love this, Thank you so much. Bye
bye bye, Thank you for listening to our conversation with
Arianna Huffington's I person. They find her fascinating. She is
this inner confidence that just never goes away. You can
almost picture her amy like running for office and not
winning and waking up the next morning being like, what
(31:10):
am I going to do next? And that's hard because
failure is like, it's hard, it can stop you in
your tracks. But I feel like Arianna is just like,
I'm going to live the life I want to live,
and it's going to change as I change, and that's amazing.
So I think we're really lucky to hear from her today.
But you can find all episodes of What's Her Story
with Sam and Amy on I Heart or wherever you
listen to podcasts. And if you love our show, which
(31:32):
we really hope you do, and we hope that you
can show the world that you care about women's stories
as much as we do. Uh, please subscribe and follow
us across the internet at What's Her Story podcast dot com.
Thank you so much. We love bringing you these women's
stories each week and we hope that you love listening
to them. We also want to hear from you, so
(31:52):
we'd like to hear your ideas for guests, any problems
you have. Sam and I aren't the experts and everything
that we have opinions on all of the things. Thanks
your comments, anything you like, and we're here to listen.
But before we go, we want to thank our team. First.
We are produced by a woman owned and operated podcast company,
Large Media. We love them, you do too, and you
(32:12):
can find them at L A r J Media dot com.
Also a huge thank you to our teammates Emma Hard
and lu Burn's. This podcast was powered by Sam's company,
park Place Payments and Amy's company, The Riveter. Sam's company
can be found at park Place Payments dot com and
Amy's company can be found at The Riveter dot co.
(32:35):
Bl Okay, Let's do it really quick from the top. Okay,
Hi, I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. This is
What's Her Story with Sam and Amy. If you were
just finding us now, please go back to listen to
our epic first two episodes, a conversation with power couple
Olympian Abby Wombach and author Glennon Doyle together from the
goose bumps worthy love story of how they met to
(00:25):
talk about equal pay. You won't want to miss it,
you know. Sam and I created this podcast in this
community because we care about the stories of women, women
like Glennon and Abbey and women like you. So you
can join us at What's Her Story podcast dot com
and there you can sign up for our newsletter, find
our Facebook, Instagram LinkedIn all the good stuff Today, though,
(00:48):
we are so proud to bring you Arianna Huffington's. You
all know Arianna. She has a larger than life personality
and a larger than life journey to match it. I'm
kind of fascinated with aria Anna. She she built a
media empire. She was married to a man who left
her for a man. She ran for office and lost.
(01:09):
She started a new company, Thrive, that is thriving. She
just she has a huge life and she is really inspirational,
and I think so much of it will come across
in this interview. I loved talking with Arianna and I'm
really excited to share this. One of the things like
really resonated with me about the conversation that we had
and that you'll hear, is that in all of Arianna's journey,
(01:31):
which Sam just went through, she's had a lot of pivots,
but what led her to start thrive was what she
calls like an epiphany that she had about her life
where everything changed for her. UM. And you know, Sam
and I were talking about epiphanys the other day and
I had one that was just so clear about my
own career. I was a lawyer for a decade. I
(01:52):
really thought I'd be a lawyer forever UM. Even though
as it is at times not the most fun career,
it was what I had signed up to do. And
when I became a mother, like everything just completely changed
for me. If you're new to our podcast, I have
four daughters who are six, four, three, and one, So
I have all of the daughters that everybody needs. You
(02:13):
can all borrow one if you'd like, but anyway, like
for me, when I became a working mother, I just
kind of looked around for the first time and I said,
where are the working mothers above me in the legal
profession at my law firm that I can talk to
about how they did this, how they made it work.
And the thing is sam like, there weren't me. There
were one or two out of a hundred. And that
(02:33):
was just shocking to me. And I remember thinking very clearly,
like why am I buying into this system? It's if
it's really clear to me that this system is not
going to buy into me. And that just led me
down a path, you know, over the course of a
year and a half that that ended in me starting
my own company, The Riveter. But so so Amy, take
a step back for a second. So you walked into
(02:54):
the office one day and just decided like, this is it.
I'm going to take this huge risk after having this
very conservative corporate career. Well, it was kind of like
a two step process for me. I went back to
my law firm after my first parental leave. I hate
saying maternity leave. It was a parental leave and I've
been back for like a couple of weeks, and I
remember I was walking from pumping milk to the refrigerator
(03:17):
to put my milk in the law firm refrigerator, which
just like didn't feel like the right place for me
to be or it to be. It just didn't feel
like I belonged. And I went back into my office
and I was like, I wanted to talk to someone
about it. So I went on the people Find Her
from my office and tried to find some working moms
who I knew maybe we're in the office, and who
had been in the same situation, and there was like
(03:39):
one or two, and there's all these pictures of men,
and I was like, I don't want to do this anymore.
I don't I want to have more kids. I don't
want to be in this situation. And so then I
was like, well, maybe what I should do is go
in house. Maybe there'll be more working moms if I
go in house as a lawyer than it's law firm
as a litigator. So I did that, and it just
still didn't feel right. And then I thought about, like,
(03:59):
where can I and more working models? Where do I
find women who are doing this? And the thing is
is that like I don't know. I read the statistic
in len In once that's something like like of working
moms off ramp at some point in their career, and
and I realized that it just wasn't the system wasn't
built for working moms, and so I wanted to build
a different system. And that is why I left this
(04:21):
This this stressful thing to me, and just hearing this
story is obviously you made the right decision. You ended
up being this smashing success entrepreneur. But there's so many
women who leave and just stop working. And that is
for me personally, like a real cause of mine is
I want to help find a way to keep those
(04:42):
women in the workforce, even just lifestyle wise, like so
much of it is about who you marry, who you
couple with. Are you're better off being a single mom
than being a mom married to someone who expects you
to do of the work at home. So so much
of this is it's just a complicated conversation because every
time a talented woman leave the firm like that, there's
fewer people for the younger women to look up to
(05:04):
and see as role models. And you know, so I
think it's a combination of both structural change we need,
but we also need lifestyle changes. We need women to
make better choices in who they couple with. We need
them to, you know, stay in the game and find
ways to do it. It's it is just so layered
and complicated. Um And it's funny because in talking to Ariana,
(05:27):
I really felt like she is someone who just keeps
charging ahead despite the challenges. I am really excited for
you all to get to know her the way we did.
And uh, we're eager to hear what you think. So again,
please do do leave your comments, let us know and
connect with us on our website. All right, and without
(05:48):
much further ado, let's jump in and here from Ariana.
In two thousand seven, you had a big epip any
can you tell us about that. I was two years
into building the Huffington Post and the divorced mother of
(06:10):
two teenage daughters and totally thinking I could power through anything,
and I collapsed, hit my head on my desk on
the way down, broke my cheekbone. And in a way
that was really an incredible gift. It made it possible
(06:30):
for me to really delve into burn out as a
global epidemic and how it was affecting hundreds of millions
of people around the world. And I started covering all
these topics at the Huffington Post, and finally in twenty sixteen,
I decided to leave to launch Drive Global to help
(06:53):
people move from awareness to action. Mhm, how how are
you different today than you were before? You know, it's
kind of amazing and Amy, I feel that I'm much
more effective and productive because I am starting my day
(07:18):
of the time really recharged and I thrive. We have
this um sixty second resets during the day, you know,
based on the science that tells us that it takes
sixty to ninety seconds to course correct from stress. And
(07:39):
as you know, if you think of your day, the
problem is not stressed. The problem is stressed becoming cumulative.
And so if we can have the sixty second resets
and let go of the cortis are hormone from our bodies,
it's kind of amazing because it means we can end
our day who without feeling exhausted and and wound up.
(08:06):
You know, when you're so wound up you you feel
you cannot really unwind and be able to sleep with it. Although, Arianna,
after reading your book, I really do think it sounds
like your mom did not have stress. I mean, the
way she ran her life was a little bit stress free.
And I know your sister at GOPA. I've met her
(08:27):
a number of times and she seems to embody a
lot of that as well. Yes, I think a lot
of it has to do with being really good at
cost correcting. Reset is my favorite feature in our Behavior
Change Up, which is not available for consumers. It's only
an enterprise product for companies. But in the up we
(08:52):
ask our users to create their own reset guide, which
is things that are jointrick yours father, you know, pictures
of their kids, their pets, favorite quote nature, and there
is a breathing pacer, and you can also pick your
(09:13):
favorite song or piece of music. My favorite song right
now is Taylor Swift. You Need to Calm Down. The
only actually the world's research. It's pretty amazing and so
but what is great is that if you're stressed, you
can just literally play at any time and it reminds
(09:36):
you of all the things that bring you joy in
your life that you are grateful for, and gratitude is
the greatest antidote to stress and anxiety. Arianna, can you
talk about the transition from Huffington Posts to Thrive and
how that all happened. I was covering all these issues
(10:00):
relentlessly at the Hufington Post. By twenty sixteen, in fact,
fifty percent of our traffic west come was coming from
these topics rather than politics. But I felt it was
not enough. I had a lot of people saying, I
know I need to be getting more sleep, and I
know I know I need to change my mental habits, etcetera.
(10:23):
But how do I do it? So that required building
a company that could actually have a behavior change product,
and by twenty sixteen I felt so passionate that that's
what I wanted to do for the rest of my life.
(10:43):
So I left and worked with many behavior scientists, with
an amazing board and a group of advisors, and and
we launched this behavior change product which is divided into
four journeys. And the first is recharge which is sleep
(11:06):
and the reset sixty second resets that I mentioned. The
second journey is fuel. You know, what do we eat
and how do we move? And we break it all
down into microsteps, like it's not like I'm going to
go to the gym when we could go to the
gym manori day, it's I'm going to walk between meetings.
(11:31):
It's like all broken down to what we call microsteps
too small to fail. I love that line small to
fail that. The third journey is connect you know, how
can we connect to around center of peace, resilience, and
(11:51):
strength and from that place connect to our empathy and
connect to those around us. And the final journeys focused,
which is particularly important right now because we're finding that
in times of stress and anxiety, people have a harder
time focusing, and so we have a lot of microsteps
(12:15):
around reducing destructions. UM. For example, one of the micro
steps is ending all notifications coming to your phone, because
who needs to halve breaking news notifications? Whenever you want
to go get the news, you go get the news.
(12:36):
So these journeys basically show us how we interconnected we are.
It's now, if we don't get enough sleep, we're going
to crave bad carbs and sugars. And if we keep
being anxious and we're not going to sleep well, So
(12:57):
everything is interconnected. You start to drive in your sixte Yeah,
it's hard to start a company. UM, I have started
one and I'm three years in and I'm exhausted. So
how do you How do you find time yourself? Which
of these four areas you focus on the most? What
helps you well. For me, sleep is foundational and I've
(13:21):
written a whole book on it, The Sleep Revolution, about
the science of sleep why it is foundational. So I
make a point of getting the sleep I need, which
is eight hours I would say nine of the time.
You know, it doesn't matter what occasionally happens when you
don't get a full night sleep. What matters is chronically
(13:44):
what happens. And and I find the difference that I
wake up fully recharged, and I think of so much
of my life when I was literally exhausted and powering
through like a zombie through my day, and also thinking
that that's normal, which is not. And when I look
(14:06):
back every mistake I made, I could totally trace it
back to exhaustion. I mean every hiring mistake. You know,
as an entrepreneur, some of the biggest mistakes we make
are hiring mistakes. So now I have a rule that
I never interview when I'm tired, because when you're tired,
(14:27):
you really miss, yeah, and the red flags, you miss
the things that are not being said that you should
be paying attention to. And what what kind of people
do you hire? Oh, we say, I thrive that we
like to hire owners. You know, people who are owners,
(14:47):
not people who are waiting to be told what to do,
but who have that ownership mentality. And also our number
one cultural value is compassionate directness. So that's very important
for us in terms of the culture we're building. You know,
(15:08):
anytime you are closely with people, there will be things
you disagree with. There will be things that that may
upset you or frustrate you. As long as these things
are expressed, there's no problem. You know, we can deal
with anything that is. That's such a great point. Now,
(15:29):
I would imagine there's a lot of pressure that comes
with talking about a healthy lifestyle that people expect you
to live, a life that is constantly measuring up to
that image. Is that something that makes you feel pressure
or what is that like for you? How do you?
(15:49):
How do you manage it? Oh? No, I never thought
of that, because I love that, and you know, I
I do what I know. But oath from the latest
science and from the ancient wisdom that we cover a
lot on thrive and and I'm personally kind of in
(16:11):
love with and that that's the best way to live
your life. And I find that the difference, the contrast
in terms of how productive I am how joyful and
how healthy I mean our seventy in July. So I
think also to know that how we live our lives
(16:33):
can dramatically affect our health. We are dealing with the
skyrocketing increased in chronic diseases diabetes, hypertension, obesity, and se
of these diseases are behavior based. So that's why I thrive.
(16:53):
We've been so passionate about cracking this huge challenge of
behavior change. Changing behavior is hard, speaking about changing behavior
on a different level and maybe societal behavior and the
way we view the world. You are a very powerful woman.
You have started multiple companies, You're a thought leader for
(17:13):
many people. I think powerful women can still be somewhat
of a complicated proposition. Do you care about being liked?
I don't think that people are set out to be disliked,
But I always say that if you U want to
do things that have an impact, you're going to ruffle feathers.
(17:35):
Not everybody is going to agree with you, and if
you are not comfortable with that, that could be a problem.
And one of the things that changes as I got
older is that you are not looking over your shoulder
for approval, and that's so so kind of liberating. In
(17:55):
the end, the most important thing is for us to
to be comfortable with ourselves, to see ourselves as a
work in progress, no matter what age we are. You know,
we are constantly can be getting better and better in
every respect. It's never ending. But also, especially women, I
(18:19):
think we have that tendency and that's definitely been a
big part of my life to have that voice of
self doubt and self judgment, you know that that I
called the obnoxious roommate living in my head, and and
being able to deal with that voice and not take
(18:40):
it seriously. It is so key. A lot of people
who look at your career today might think, oh, look
at her, she just rose to the top. It was easy, breezy.
But you one of the things I admire about you
is that you do take risks, and along the way
you have had setbacks. What was it like to only
run for governor of California but to lose an election? Oh,
(19:05):
that was kind of an amazing time. It was. It
was a strange election, It only lasted less than two months.
It was very call election. But one was amazing is
how much I learned from this failure, because that was
the time when I saw new media and coming to
(19:27):
the forefround and the power that it can have, and
and frankly, without that experience, I wouldn't have launched the
Huffington Post and years later. So I love when I
speak or when I write to talk about my failures
and and talk about how, as my mother used to say,
(19:51):
failure is not the opposite of success. It's a stepping
stone to success, and how often something that's a failure
can need to the best thing that could have happened.
So in the late nine nineties you said that the
right left divisions are so outdated. Now you said, for me,
the primary division is between people who are aware of
(20:13):
what I call the two Nations written for and those
who are not. Do you still find that statement meant
to be true today? I really believe that there is
fundamental difference between people who revere facts and the truth
and people who don't. I think that's like a huge difference.
(20:34):
And also I wrote a whole book on the two
Nations called Third World America. And we've been talking for
a long time about the growing inequalities in our country,
but we haven't really done enough about this. So for me,
these are like the two big issues of course right now,
(20:55):
you know, we're living in a different world where you know,
the Republican Party unfortunately does not have a lot of
respect for facts and and so you know, we are
on our way to a major and and pretty fundamentally
(21:16):
important election. But I also feel that we are at
the moment when we're all recognizing that we need to
expand our own circle of concern beyond ourselves and our
own families to include our communities and those most in need.
So you you've been able to if we shift to
(21:37):
the personal front, you've been able to really create a
pretty incredible relationship. It sounds like with your ex husband,
which I know a lot of people struggle with, how
how are you able to do that? And what advice
would you have for other people that are struggling with that?
So obviously it wasn't easy. You know, if you get divorced,
it means clearly that there are things that make you angry,
(22:03):
there are things that really upset you. But if you
have children together, Um, what I tell everyone and have
written a lot about, is there is the importance of
making your children the most fundamental part in that relationship.
(22:25):
Because given that over fifty percent of marriages and then
in divorce, the biggest casualties are the children. So, um,
I've written about how Mike's husband and I and our
kids go on vacation together, we have holidays together. It's
(22:45):
much easier now because our children are older. But um,
it's something essential and I find that that it makes
a big difference for their children if you don't allow
them to be um kind of weapons in that relationship. So,
my parents are divorced and I have the same relationship
(23:06):
with both of my parents. We do vacations together, holidays together,
and it's we're still a family even though my parents
aren't married to each other. And it's amazing. Yes, that's
so rare. It is rare, but I think we need
to make it less rare. I agree, especially given how
prevalent divorces like it is a likely outcome and so
we need to find a way to build these modern families.
But speaking of your modern family, you have two amazing
(23:29):
adult daughters. What is this is a leading question as
a former lawyer, I'll admit that, but what is your
favorite part about this stage of parenting of having adult daughters? Oh,
I feel the the the best thing about it is
how close we are and how they're my best friends.
(23:49):
You know, both my daughters went through a lot of problems.
You know, one got involved in drugs. She's been sobernough
for nine years. That's amazing. One went through a lexis.
So I tell all the all the moms that you know,
it does get better. And now to have been through
that and have that self awareness and and the ability
(24:15):
to talk about everything with each other is such an
incredible gift. And I was very like I had it
with my mother and now I have it with my daughters.
What would you say to people who want to create
that relationship but are struggling because there's so many parents
who struggle and they can only feel the struggle and
they can't see beyond that. So what were the things
(24:38):
that helped to get through that and build such a
strong relationship in the future. I think the most important
thing was really what my mother taught me, which was
the sense of unconditional loving and so that my daughters
knew that when they made mistakes, when things were tough,
(25:00):
I didn't love them any less and I was there
to help them deal through everything. And I think that
was the most important thing. It's the gift my mother
gave me, and so that at the same time that
she made me feel that I could name for the
stars and if I failed along the way, she wouldn't
(25:20):
love me any less. Um, it's that combination of giving
you the wings to fly, but knowing that you have
a safe haven in her. Sam. I have to say, so,
my kids are a little bit younger than Sam's. My
kids are between the ages of fourteen months and six
and Sam's are older. Say, I'm not similar advice you've
(25:41):
given me, which is pretty pretty awesome. Kids are teenagers, right, Sam? Yeah,
I have fourteen or twelve and a ten year old. Yes,
which actually during the pandemic has been helpful in terms
of my work because you know, they can they're not
always needing my attention. But I also feel terribly for
(26:03):
them because this is a big part of their childhood
that they're missing, whether it's the beginning of high school
or the beginning of middle school. Um, what is your
advice during the pandemic, because so many people are really
struggling with happiness and just you know, this new way
of life. What what what advice do you have for people?
So I believe that the pandemic is really a portal
(26:27):
to look at the things that were not working in
the world we've left behind and Marie Konda lives if
you want, and so that we can focus in the
new world we're imagining and building on what's working. One
of the things that was not working that, of course
(26:49):
Thrive I Bill thrive to to counter is that frenetic,
breathless way of living, when everybody is in a perpetual
state of frenzy, and to think that that's how life
is meant to be is really sad. And I think
we are realizing that now and that's one of the
(27:12):
best changes that that can happen. You know, this is
a terrible time of trial. You know, I'm not minimizing
the losses of life, of and of jobs. But at
the same time, it's a it's a catalyst that I
hope we lead to a very different way of working
(27:33):
and living. I agree with you. I think it is
a time of so much grief and heart set and
it's a time to reevaluate our lives. It's an end.
I think it's both. Um, we only have a few
minutes left, so Sam and I like to do a
bit of a speed round at the end. Quick questions,
quick answers, some not particularly profound, but that we care about.
(27:53):
So what what is your morning routine Arianna? So the
most important part of my morning routine is the microstep
that we have a thrive of not rushing to my phone.
So it's my favorite microstep. Take sixty seconds to remember
(28:14):
what you're grateful for or set your intention for the
day before you go to your phone. And that's what
I do every day. What is a relationship like with money?
So I have a great sense of abundance about money,
which I had even when I had no money. And
(28:36):
that comes from my mother, because you know, I was
born in a one bedroom apartment Monday, Nothing's Greece. We
had no money. But my mother had that sense that
somehow you could keep dreaming and you could make things happen.
So I've always kept that sense that she she brought
(28:57):
to me at a time when um, when times you
are hard. Turning into a different topic, what is the
last book you read? So? I read a book that
I absolutely loved called Mary Magdalene revealed. It's by a
(29:18):
feminist theologian called Megan water Song, and and I was
introduced to her actually by Van Jones, and she's going
to start posting quotes on my Instagram over there over
the weekends so you can get to know her and
(29:40):
and you're going to love her too. Awesome. Well, before
we finished, I just want to give our final question
to lou Our sound engineer, Ludy want to come on
and ask Arianna question, Hi, Lou, Hi, are youanna pleasure
to have you on? How are you today? Much? Very good?
My question is said, well, um, I'm so fascinated with you.
(30:03):
I would like to know what are your selfish desires? Oh,
my selfish desires and my selfless desires are all the same. Um.
I have a lot of desires about my daughters and
and about their ability to go through life without all
the unnecessary anxiety and stress that I I had in
(30:26):
my early years. And also for the world and to
be able to tap into our sense of empathy and
love and bring it into all our relationships beyond ourselves
and our families. Wonderful. Well, on that note, Arianna, thank
you so much. We're invited in by the bell. We
(30:48):
got you to your next thing on time. Thank you
so much. I love this, Thank you so much. Bye
bye bye, Thank you for listening to our conversation with
Arianna Huffington's I person. They find her fascinating. She is
this inner confidence that just never goes away. You can
almost picture her amy like running for office and not
winning and waking up the next morning being like, what
(31:10):
am I going to do next? And that's hard because
failure is like, it's hard, it can stop you in
your tracks. But I feel like Arianna is just like,
I'm going to live the life I want to live,
and it's going to change as I change, and that's amazing.
So I think we're really lucky to hear from her today.
But you can find all episodes of What's Her Story
with Sam and Amy on I Heart or wherever you
listen to podcasts. And if you love our show, which
(31:32):
we really hope you do, and we hope that you
can show the world that you care about women's stories
as much as we do. Uh, please subscribe and follow
us across the internet at What's Her Story podcast dot com.
Thank you so much. We love bringing you these women's
stories each week and we hope that you love listening
to them. We also want to hear from you, so
(31:52):
we'd like to hear your ideas for guests, any problems
you have. Sam and I aren't the experts and everything
that we have opinions on all of the things. Thanks
your comments, anything you like, and we're here to listen.
But before we go, we want to thank our team. First.
We are produced by a woman owned and operated podcast company,
Large Media. We love them, you do too, and you
(32:12):
can find them at L A r J Media dot com.
Also a huge thank you to our teammates Emma Hard
and lu Burn's. This podcast was powered by Sam's company,
park Place Payments and Amy's company, The Riveter. Sam's company
can be found at park Place Payments dot com and
Amy's company can be found at The Riveter dot co.
(32:35):
Bl Okay, Let's do it really quick from the top. Okay,
Hosts And Creators
Samantha Ettus
Amy Nelson
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