Liz Lange

Liz Lange is the Founder of Liz Lange Maternity, widely credited with putting fashion maternity wear on the map. She is now the creative director and CEO of fashion brand Figue. Since 2002, Target has carried Liz Lange for Target, the retailer's sole offering in maternity apparel. She is the star of the popular Sony podcast, "The Just Enough Family.".

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to What's
Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a show
about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and personal journeys. Together,
we'll hear from gold medalists, best selling authors, and leaders
of the world's most iconic brands. Listen every Thursday, or
join the conversation anytime on Instagram at What's Her Story Podcast.

(00:30):
Liz Lang is the founder of Liz Lang Maternity. She's
widely credited with putting fashion maternity wear on the map.
She is now the creative director and CEO of the
fashion brand Big. Since two thousand two, Target has carried
Liz Lang for Target, the retailer's soul offering in maternity apparel.
She's also the star of the popular Sony podcast The

(00:51):
Just Enough Family. I think most people can't imagine what
it was like to grow up in one of the
wealthiest families in the world. When you put it that way,
it sounds like like it sounds like I just like
I've been bragging. Thats up. I wanted to start by saying,

(01:11):
spoiler alert, we lost the money, so like it's not
like it's not it's because I just can't have people
think that I'm just see around like yes, yes, Sam
and Amy, it's incredible to me. This rich so but
all right, but going back, so, you know, it was
like I think that that the thing that you expected
thing to say is like, oh, money, campering, happiness and

(01:34):
money is hard. But you know, there were things about
it that that were hard. You know that the public
aspect of it was strange and hard, but there was
a lot about it obviously that was really fun and
really great. Like looking back on it, I feel like
I was privy to a very wild ride that is
unusual and that I look back on with fondness. You

(01:54):
know that that like, it's a lot. I got to
do a lot. I saw a lot of experience that
you know, isn't tip of call, Well, give our listeners
a day in the life, you know, just example of
a Saturday in your childhood. So when I was growing up,
one of my favorite things to do, and this was
like getting into when I was a little older, like
in high school, would be that my parents would typically

(02:15):
my parents were big consumers and I love that about them,
a k a. Shoppers shoppers, shoppers, and I have too,
and I think that's what makes the economy go around.
And I encourage, like I always encourage people, especially having
been in retailer myself, Like I think that people that
have the money to spend should spend it because that
helps other people. Actually, I mean in addition to charity

(02:36):
and all sorts of other stuff. So my I used
to like to go with my parents, say would we
lived very close to Madison Avenue. We lived on a
seventy fifth and fifth, so we would walk down Madison Avenue.
I walked down madisonal with my parents and we would
basically stop and you know, most stores at the time,
I mean this was you know, the eighties, so like
our Money was a big store. So we would, you know,

(02:57):
we would stop in our money and everywhere we went.
This all sudden, so crazy, now what every and you know,
the sales people, of course knew my parents, and so
we have treated very well, whisp into back rooms like
what can we show you? What can we show you?
Like bringing in merchandise. And I think the funniest part
is that the jewelery store was called Fred Layton and
the owner himself is actually his name was Murray Munshine,

(03:19):
but he had changed his name to Fred Layton, you know,
because there's more glamorous name for the jewelry store then,
but we uh right, but we still called him Murray
and we would go there and it was small, and
today people are very like people say to me like, oh,
I'm so intimidated even to walk in there. But to me,
that was just a place where we would stop in
at around lunch time. We go to the back and

(03:40):
often Murray would have you know, smoked salmon bagels like
a lunch, kind of a lunch. So that would often
be lunch at Fred Layton, which again like, of course,
I mean, I'm so naive that I think everyone does it,
but it didn't seem unusual to me at that time
at all. We were close to Murray. It made a
ton of sense and that was kind of the after
to do and we walked around the shopped. To me, again,

(04:02):
I think that my parents, if they're listening to this,
because they've certainly said it to me offline, will be
like we went to museums. We were cultural and they
were they were like like, like a hundred percent were are.
I'm just talking about the part that I liked. If
they were going to a gallery, I wasn't really all
that interested in joining, but if they wanted to walk
Madison Avenue and stop at fred Layton and Our Money

(04:24):
and everywhere else Burg Doors, that was fun, so I
would come along. So that was Saturday. What do you
remember about the work about their company? Like? What do
you remember about that as a child? I mean, I'll
say a couple of things. One is and this like
is that I always say, and I actually just said
it to a group last night when people are always debating,
like my family did nothing illegal, so that there's no
comparison there at all. But I always say that when

(04:45):
I heard like people always like, do you think Ruth
made Off knew? You know? They always said do you
think she knew? And I always say to people like,
you don't understand how easy it is. I have no
idea if she know what didn't know? And I don't
know Ruth Madeoff or the Madeoffs, don't know them. But
I always say, well, I know what it's like to
like spend a lot of time like at a business
and have it be your family business and actually have
no idea really what they do. They're like, I could

(05:06):
totally see that, Like if someone said, well, actually, no
reliance group holdings was just like a Ponzi scheme. I'd
be like, oh, I didn't know. Often as I got older,
especially after I graduated from college, I was working at
Vogue with The offices were nearby to my family's, uh
my family business, you know where my dad and my
uncle where their offices were. So I would often go

(05:27):
there for lunch and it was fun. You know. They
had a private dining room and then my dad my
uncle had a private dining room with in the private
dining room where I would sit with them and it
was like, But I think what people are responding to
about the podcast is there's a lot about it where
the details are different, like just like like the way
when we watch the Sopranos, like you know, the details
were different. Um, I don't come from a mob family.
But I was like, oh, I get it, like they've

(05:49):
got to you know, Tony has issues with his business
partner's issues with his wife. His children are giving him
a hard time. It's kind of like in my family,
the same thing. I would sit with my dad and
my uncle and what would we talk about? They usually
I was in my twenties. When you getting married, who
are you dating. Can we introduce you to this one.
It wasn't like we were sitting around talking about you know,
money and business and power. It was really fun. It
was very comfortable. It was there was something very mooring

(06:10):
about it, like when I walked into those beautiful offices,
I knew that you know, it felt I mean again
ironic given the ending, but it felt very protected, like
that my life was very very set and that things,
you know, to a certain degree, a huge safety net
that things just couldn't really go wrong. It was like
teams of people that we're helping and there and worked

(06:31):
for the family. It just it felt something kind of
fun about it. Jonathan Adler, who is one of your
dearest friends, the designer Jonathan Adler, had said, you know,
Liz Steinberg was the last person you would ever expect
to have a full time job, and basically it was
like pf let alone an empire. Right, So how did
you end up becoming this pioneer in the fashion maternity

(06:57):
wear category? He's right, of course, I would say that
I thought to myself that I was going to work
like everyone else I knew, and then possibly get married. Hopefully.
I was hoping to get married have children. I wasn't.
I mean, this is so much has changed even since
I graduated from college in nine to today. So you know,
again just understand this for what the time period it was.

(07:20):
It wasn't a dent a short thing that I thought
I was going to work my whole life. I thought
I might just raised my children, and you know, I
don't know what else I would do. I hadn't really
thought it out, but um lo and behold, I ended
up like so many entrepreneurs, and I didn't know. I
only know this looking back that after you know, working
at Vogue and then working with the struggling young designer
getting this idea to start a line of attorney clothing

(07:43):
that looked more like regular maternity clothing, I had that
thing that happens to entrepreneurs like I couldn't stop thinking
about the idea of making maternity clothing. It was. It
was crazy. I hadn't even had children at myself, although
I was newly married and you know, getting pregnant was
on my mind. But I felt like I was up
at night thinking about it. I was obsessed with it,
and I felt that if I didn't start this, like

(08:04):
I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if somebody else
did for some reason. So even then, though, even then,
I started it without a business plan, without an idea
that this is. Maybe I'm saying too much, but today
everyone's an entrepreneur. I mean, we're all entrepreneurs, right. Everybody
sees white space, everyone's disrupting something, everyone's everyone's everything. I
mean again, I don't want to offend either of you,
but everyone's women power and what's it like to be

(08:25):
a woman, and it's so hard. None of this crossed
my mind. It wasn't whilom a woman, so I can't
do this. It wasn't that I saw white space. No,
I had this whole idea. I thought I would do
it for a little while, see what happened. I didn't
expect big things to happen. Lo and behold, it took
off beyond my wildest expectations. And it's not crazy, I mean,
as funny as it is. I mean, obviously I started
to do something that was resonating, that was bringing me

(08:47):
an enormous amount of I don't know, satisfaction. It was
all of a sudden, like I had started something that
was big and I loved it, and I became obsessed
and I've worked around the clock and I've never really
stopped loving that, Like it just bit me. What was
the first step you took to start the business? Because
I think even a lot of our listeners would say, well, okay,

(09:10):
that's great that you just decided to start it, but
what does that mean you rented space or what was
the first move? All right, Well, it took a year
from the time I thought the thought of the idea
to start it, partially because I was so paralyzed with
fear about starting it, and also again different times. So
today I think the first step is you're right up
a businessman. You go out and raise millions of dollars. No.
I told my father that I wanted to do this,

(09:32):
and he said, I will help you a little bit
at the beginning, but it has to make money pretty
because also my dad was a businessman, So it was like,
so it has to make money pretty quickly, because it
doesn't make money quickly. It's just a hobby and I'm
not funding your hobby. So I had no delusions that
I was just going to be like money was gonna
be thrown at me. So I just want your listeners
to know despite my background. I wasn't doing this with

(09:53):
like the backing of my family. I was doing it
was at the end, I think I've said this, I
think my dad. In the end, it ultimately give me
about over time paying different bills dollars, which wasn't nothing
at all, and much more than many have, but kind
of nothing. So the first thing I did was I
pounded the pavement. No internet, found a factory. You know,

(10:14):
there was no internet back there. Found a factory that
was willing to make sort of one off samples for me.
I mean, this is pretty granular, so I didn't have
to invest in a lot of inventory. Found a mill
in Italy. I knew some of this from working with
a young designer that I've been working with prior, so
I knew how to find factories and I knew how
to find um fabric mills. Again, the world just changed.
So I contacted this fabric mill, I ordered some fabric.

(10:36):
I sent it to this factory. I noticed that across
the street for me, I lived on sixty first Street
between Park and Madison in our little small one bedroom apartment,
and across the street from me was a tiny building
and I had to foresay, like a for rent sign
and I found an office in there did not face
the street, had nothing to do with normal retail, little
office in the back on like the third floor. I

(10:56):
rented that space. It was extraordinarily inexpensive. Right now, I
can't think of the rent, but it could have been
like dollars a month. I mean, you know, small space.
I bought a little rack. I had some samples made,
like one of each of my designs, and I thought
that I would just start at a telephone, at a
fax machine. And I thought I'll start seeing customers by
appointment only. And the only way I could find customers

(11:19):
was my friends, who have to be pregnant. But I
had this theory having been recently married, and I knew
what that was like, where you're like networking like crazy.
You're asking everybody everything, like oh, who is your band?
Who did your flowers? You're reading, You're just hyper focused.
And again, things may have changed the stuff, but this
is the way I felt in so I um. I
thought women would be great networkers, and I thought my
friends would tell other friends. What started to happen was

(11:41):
I got suppressed. I did not have a PR agency,
but I started to get suppressed. And then I started
to get celebrities, and then things just started to snowball
in a way that was almost inexplicable. During the years
you're building this a lot of really hard things happened
to you. You had cancer, your family business and bankrupt
got divorced. How did you find a way to keep

(12:05):
running and growing this business while these things were happening. Again,
it's all in hindsight. I think part of my personality
that made me a good entrepreneur also made me able
to handle all these things. And what I mean by
that is maybe it's almost like it's almost possibly too much.
But I'm bizarrely optimistic, which I think you kind of
need to be to be an opt to be an entrepreneur.

(12:26):
So I'm bizarrely optimistic, like I always think everything will
work out. It's very very hard to bring me down,
almost impossible. So and I'm I'm able to compartmentalized, like
to a really bizarre degree. So I just decided everything
that was going out of my life, no matter was.
It was like, let's take the cancer. Like when I
had cancer, I had to do I was in the
hospital for two weeks for like a radicalist direct to me,

(12:48):
I went through chemotherapy and radiation at the same time,
I was exhausted. I'm not complaining, I'm saying that's what
it was like. I had two young children under the
age of three. But I made this decision that I
wasn't really going to tell anyone, and I wasn't going
to tell my employees. I told like one senior person
because I needed them to know, but because I felt
like if I didn't sort of tell anyone, and I
was lucky obviously I didn't have the kind of cancer

(13:10):
that was I mean, I was terrified, but it wasn't
meant to be a death sentence. Anything to go wrong,
But it wasn't meant to be. But I mean, I
didn't lose my hair, so I so not losing your hair,
which makes it easier to um sort of not, you know,
to not tell people. I realized that's not an option
for many, so I I sei work through it. I
didn't tell people. I felt that it kept me going
to not have to be talking about it to my

(13:32):
friends and at the office that I had something. That's
the weird part of me. I felt kind of lucky
that I had this major distraction in my business, like
the business couldn't stop. Like one of the things I've
talked about is that at the same time that I
had cancer, I was sort of trying to talk to
Target about signing a licensing deal. But of course I
didn't want to Target to know that I had cancer
because I thought, you know, it was very exaggerated in

(13:52):
my mind as well, because that was part of it.
Was awful about it. But I thought, well, if they
knew that, they would never want to do a deal
with me, that everyone's going to think I'm dying well,
And to be fair, the company had your name on it,
so it was so intertwined with you personally, Yes, it
would it wouldn't have been good for the brand for
people to think that. I was probably right exactly, But
I remember that I so I kept putting off. I

(14:12):
had to go to I had to go to Minneapolis
in order to talk face to face with Target about
the idea for this licensing deal. And I couldn't go
because I had to have radiation every day, so I
literally couldn't leave New York City. But I couldn't tell
them that. So I just remember that I kept putting
it off. I kept putting it off, and then Finally
I had like a two day break in the radiation
for some reason, they were changing the protocol and I
went overnight, and it was it was hard. I mean,

(14:34):
I was always exhausted because of it. I was always exhausted.
And the same thing was I was launching my new
license line for Nike, and they gave this really big
party that I still looked back on, like, I wish
I could have appreciated it more. I wish that I
had been healthier at that moment. But they took over
Michael's Restaurant, which was a big restaurant in New York
back then, and they invited like a total who's who,
made this huge deal about it. But I was so

(14:56):
exhausted on the day of that party that I remember
I was like I had to sit down in my
shower in order to wash my hair, like it was
really like gritting my teeth and getting through it. But
it was it was the fact that I had all
these things going on positively, like the business that I
think really got me through everything else that you asked
me about. And now a quick break. It was only

(15:18):
four years after you started Lizzling Maternity that your family
business fell apart. Your birth family's business fell apart. How
did that manifest itself in your life? I mean, obviously
it was extremely stressful. Like people always again, like whenever
someone's an entrepreneur, people use words like bravery, like it
was so brave of you to like leave your job

(15:40):
and start this business, always like it wasn't. First of all,
I was, you know, twenty nine years old, so I
didn't know about bravery. You know, you're just not that scared.
I wasn't going to start if the business didn't work out.
My family was very rich. My husband was somewhat success
and we were young, but you know, he was starting
out and was somewhat successful. I wasn't risking a lot
all of a sudden, my family loses its money and
like our life depends on my business, like that had

(16:02):
never been part of the deal. I mean, I was
treating it that way already, thankfully, Like I wasn't. I
wasn't in it halfway for you at that point, I
already had the Target deal and the Nike deal and
my list lying store. So no, but I don't know
that I would have sold the business. I sold the
business in two thou seven. I don't know that I
would have other than I felt a responsibility to monetize

(16:23):
the success of Liz lying Mattorney for my family, for
my my my new family, not for my parents. And
I don't think I would have I would have been
able to, and that that's something that I am sad about.
I mean, I'm over it today. But being Liz Laing
of loz Lin Attorney was very much a part of
my identity. It was everything, and that was hard and
I definitely that was one thing that I definitely wouldn't

(16:44):
have happened. I knew you back then, and I remember
it being very difficult for you to sort of overnight
go from having this identity to suddenly having sold it
and thinking what's next? It was what got you to
what's next? Well, I was forty years old, which is
young now looking back, quite young, but I knew that

(17:05):
I wasn't like retiring and it kind of just fell
into place. I was lucky in that I knew this
woman named Mindy Grossman. I knew Mindy because she had
run women's You probably we've had her on the shot. Oh,
so you know, Mendy. She's great. Mindy's wonderful, she's the best.
But I knew Mindy in a very different role. I
knew Mindy when she ran women's apparel for Nike, and

(17:26):
she was the one that had approached me and asked
me if I would do a Liz lang for Swoosh
maternity athletic apparel line. At that point, just like I mean,
you guys, I had no idea who Mindy Wasn't Mindy
yet really and I mean she had a job at
Nike and lived in um so Um. I met her
that through that deal. We ended up doing that deal.
I got to know her. And when I sold Liz

(17:47):
Lange maternity and I really couldn't do maternity clothing anymore.
Like that part was I had sold the rights to
do that. Mindy offered me to come on. She had
just taken over at HSN. I mean I could have
the timing wrong, but somewhat like that at Home Shop
be Network, and she said, why didn't you come on?
And my friend Stephanie Greenfield, who had owned scooped, she
was doing a show, so why don't you do, uh,
do a line of clothing, not maternity, but you know,

(18:09):
at a target price point for our audience. And I
ended up doing that for ten years and so and
that became a successful line for Home Shopping Network and
I would sell it on air once a month. So
it's my life started to like kind of piece together
from a career point of view, starting those line. Maternity
No matter what I do, even to this day, will
always be, you know, sort of the highlight for me

(18:32):
of my career, just personally, even if something else makes
more money, it just just the satisfaction in that and
and the way that I feel like that. Again, I
don't want to brag there so much, so much that
I failed at but I feel like the impact that
to this day on the way that women dressed when
they're pregnant, but you know, no matter what they're wearing,
is very gratifying to me. You know, it's hard for
me to replicate that, but that's sort of how it happened.

(18:54):
And then from Ages and then when Mindy left agis
in and they were merging with QBC, I really didn't
want to be doing anymore and have been ten years.
It's exhausting. I loved it, but it's exhausting. And then
I started investing in brands because I knew I couldn't
quite I mean, again, I think it's about just for
me always, It's just about trying different things and seeing
what feels right. So I started investing in brands, thinking

(19:14):
I want to be close to entrepreneurs. I know, I
like that. I know I found a passion for that,
and I did like it. I still do it. I
like investing in brands, but it didn't quite feel like enough.
It's still they weren't my brand, and I was just,
you know, on some annoying person that was like, you know,
possibly giving advice that perhaps an entrepreneur doesn't even want. Like,
I mean, I get it. I've been there, so um

(19:35):
so I know, you know, so I know what that's like.
And so then I mean cut fast forward to today.
During covid Um, which was crazy, uh in like the
fall of two thousand and twenty, I got word that
a brand that I was a huge fan of, like
no no connection to other than I wore the brand
a lot. Was a huge fan this woman's clothing line
called fig that I have been following since its inception,

(19:58):
again not as an investor, not as anything. Just I
heard that Stephanie about Watsdorf, who was the founder, woman
I knew tangentially was kind of just done, was ready
to just kind of like let it go. So I
was like, it felt almost like meant to me. I
was like, I'm looking to do something. I don't want
to start something again. I know what that takes. I'm
too old. I wanted sort of an in place team,

(20:18):
a brand that had already done some of the hard
work of becoming a brand, but that I could grow
from there and lo and behold fig and and it
ended up going to auction. I ended up acquiring it
and relaunching it. And it's been a year um and
we're still you know, we're still sort of the launching phase.
But it's been fabulous, and that that's what I'm doing today.
Tell us about what was going on personally. I know

(20:40):
you had a very complicated marriage and all of the
things that have unfolded since. Will you share with us
a little bit about the roller coaster that was your
personal life. I had this kind of crazy situation where
I married somebody that was absolutely unbelievable on paper and
probably to a certain degree in real life as well.

(21:02):
He was very, very handsome, you know, a cross between
let's say, I know he looked a lot like Harry
Hamlin he was very, very smart. He had gone to
Yale and you know law school. I mean it got
to Stanford in the law school. And he was very
very very very smart, and very funny and very you know,
all good things. But during the course of our marriage,
I think, you know, it's hard to even to explain,

(21:23):
but I think for him, all his early success, which
was you know, off the charts, wasn't happening for him
as quickly in his career as he would have expected,
and I think he started to suffer from now looking
back on it, you know, bordering on a mental breakdown.
But I was very busy trying to run my business,
these two young children, you know, my family was in them.

(21:44):
There was a lot going on and started to become
extremely complicated between us. You know, he was very increasingly
shut down, never wanted to do anything, never wanted to
go anywhere, barely left the bedroom. And I felt like
this huge pressure at that time to keep up this
facade of you know, I am Liz Life or Lizzie returning.
I have this perfect family. I mean, for whatever reason,

(22:06):
I mean maybe as women we do this, but it
just felt very important to me that things look okay
on the outside, and that was, you know, exhausting would
be one word for it. It was. It was very hard,
and ultimately I left him. That was hard to I
took the children and I moved out, which was a
strange and hard thing to do. But you know, we divorced.
I remarried somebody that you know, was fabulous, and we

(22:30):
have a very nice, you know today, a very nice
life and he's really a father to my children. I mean, sadly,
my ex husband ended up dying post a divorce. I'm
not a widow, but complicated would be an understatement. But
it was hard and he clearly suffered from mental health
issues that were unclear to me until I was pretty
far in. How old were you kids when you left

(22:51):
nine and eleven? And where did you go when you
when you left two thousand and nine? I think I, like,
you know, might have looked in the paper. I found
it's like rental. We were living at the time. We
had sold our apartment as part of another one of
his like strange crazy things that he made us sell
our our beautiful family apartment, not for money reasons, like honestly,
like there was no reason to do it. He just

(23:12):
decided that we had to, and so we sold it
and we were living on seventy feet and third and
I discovered this rental on seventy second Street kind of nearby.
It was too small, like my children, I mean, my
children were going. Am not saying this is sad for them,
but they basically like slept on a pull up bed
in the living room and there was a bedroom. And
it was a crazy time. And I think they were confused,

(23:33):
and I was confused, but it was like this thing
took over me where I knew. I knew that if
I didn't get out, if I didn't get out, even
if it wasn't for me, then it was for them.
Like that, they couldn't even though they might have thought, oh,
they wanted their parents to stay together, and I get
that that they weren't seeing the right example of a
family and a parents and a father just was wrong.
It was hard, but I was lucky in that. Again,

(23:54):
I'm from New York City. I have such a huge
support system, So I don't mean to sound like it
wasn't like I was all alone. I mean, you know,
my parents, my cousin's, my my sister who I'm so
opposed to a Sam knows a lot of close, close,
close friends. It wasn't. I mean, it was hard, but
it wasn't um. I mean, there are a lot of
women who do a lot of things that are just
a lot harder. How did you meet your husband? That's

(24:15):
a funny story. So I call it a double blind date.
And I always say to women, even in today's world,
and I guess today's world doesn't well sort of applies.
I always say that you have to say yes to
all dates, all things, and even after the first date,
even if you think you don't like him, unless he
seems like a serial killer, you have to go on
a second day. I always did the same thing. I'm
always like, unless he has three heads, you go on

(24:36):
that second day. Because someone's very different on the second
day than they're on the first date, exactly. And I
feel like women, the people, just these young kids are
just so pithy about everything. It's like, you don't know.
So my cousin and my husband, who's a lawyer, and
one of his sort of close friend client had dinner,
and so neither of them knew both of us. They
each only knew one of us. That's what makes it
double blind, which was kind of you know. So my

(24:58):
cousin said, I'm looking for somebody for my in. His
clients said, I'm looking for someone from my lawyer. Anyway,
we end up going on a blind date. I am not, like,
not even remotely interested. I mean, if he were here,
he would say, not remotely. He said afterwards that his
clients said, how did it go? And he said, well,
she's no romantic interest in me, but I definitely have

(25:18):
her business. And that is correct. My husband is a
is a lawyer. He doesn't like we talking about it,
but a very very top offer. And I was going
through some events with the Lye maternity and business, and
I was like, this is incredible. I'm gonna have all
this like great legal advice that I couldn't possibly afford.
And I was thinking, like, he's gonna be a really
good friend to have. I have no too bad that
I have zero interest in him. But I continued, he

(25:40):
continued to ask me out. We would go to these
like on these very nice dates. He was so nice,
he would like, he was so helpful, and I was
not interested. Cut to my I'm on a family vacation
with my children and my sister and her kids, and
my sister always says this that like she looked over me.
We were actually and we were touring around Israel, so
we were in like one of those our little van

(26:02):
and she said, every time she looked over, I was
on my phone like smiling, laughing, like texting, and she
kept saying like what are you doing? Like who are
you texting with? And I was like, oh, you know
this this guy, this you know, my my lawyer. And
she was like, oh, I don't think he's your lawyer,
like you like him? And I was like, oh, I
don't like him anyway, like you know, one thing that

(26:22):
to another, and I realized that that in fact I did,
but it was every not again. In terms of romantic advice,
I had thought to myself, I want somebody who's either
going through a divorce or his wife has has died. Sadly,
I al wasnot looking for anyone to be dead, but
I wanted somebody who understood what it was like to
have children and not a lot of free time. And
so I didn't want my husband had never been married,

(26:44):
he didn't have children. I was like, this is not
what I'm looking for. He you know, he's two years
younger than me. I was like, I need to be
with somebody older, like the whole thing. Like so you know,
you have these checklists in your mind and they're just
all wrong. So it's just kind of funny. I've had
the pleasure of getting to know him a little bit,
and he is so kind of charming, really brilliant and

(27:05):
stable and confident. And I think that probably after what
you went through, you didn't add like stable and confident.
We're probably really high up there. But I didn't even
know that they should have been. But I would have been, like,
you know, like so many of us, I think I
was looking for like hard to get, you know, the
dangerous like who knows what I was. I mean, I
don't think I actually articulated those things to myself, but

(27:27):
I wasn't used to somebody who was just really great steady,
just kept like just normal. But yes, it turned out
to be the best thing ever. And because he didn't
have children, my children are his children. So I mean,
on every level, it's been you know, good. How do
your kids look at your career? They make a lot
of fun of it, But then I privately think that
they are proud of me, but they would never admit that.

(27:49):
I mean, like you know. They they're constantly you know,
just teasing me. They don't, they can't believe it. If
a few times when we go somewhere and someone says, oh,
I wore your maternity clothing, and their friends mothers say
things to them, they are in a state of shock,
like she did, she knows who you are, that kind
of thing. But I you know, I mean the wind
beneath my wings. But but but they I think, I mean,

(28:13):
I hope it's good. I mean, i'd say, like, you know,
the other part of it, and Samy probably heard me
talk about this is that I always say, and this
is true too, that you know, until I sold the business,
I mean, no regrets, nothing you can do about it.
You make the choices you make. But I think there's
a lot these days of like women could have it all,
women could do it all, anybody could do everything, And
in my experience that's simply not true. Like we have

(28:35):
a finite amount of energy and fine an amount of time.
And my children are they're proud of me, they're thrilled
about it. But they would be the first to say that,
like you know, during their earliest years, it's sad, but
they're just there are a lot of things that I missed, Like,
you know, they're definitely things that I missed. Would you
go back and change that? If you couldn't, I wouldn't
change the growth of Liz Lang. So I don't know
if it's possible, but now that there are twenty one

(28:55):
and twenty three, and really they don't they're not dying
to spend all their time with me. I mean, we
are close, but you know, they they've got lives like
a boyfriend's girlfriends friends. I look back and I kind
of want to shake myself over the times when all
they wanted was for me to be around and I was.
You know, they still they joke and again it's all
a joke, but they're like, oh, we always knew when
you were in the audience of the school play because
the light of your BlackBerry was shining on your face.

(29:18):
And that is true. Can remember the black I was
attached to my BlackBerry. I was always in my mind somewhere,
but I mean truckly at the office too. I was
mentally like, is this happening today at home? Like it
was just it was a lot of juggling. Well and ironically,
I mean, and I'm sure they can appreciate this. Your
family got into unexpected financial trouble and if you hadn't

(29:40):
been devoted to building lis Ling, you might not have
survived that in a healthy way. Right, So it's like
you actually, unbeknownst to anyone at the time, we're basically
the pillar of financial stability in your family, you know what.
I've never thought about it that way, and that's true.
I might even point that out to them. That's true.
It was and just for my ego, like it was

(30:01):
actually real, Like it was a real business that I needed,
and and the sale of it was a very big,
you know, financial event for us. So you're right. But
definitely those first you know, their earlier years, I was
very focused on both. I mean, I had C sections,
but I jumped out of bed after day two and
wouldn't let them let me stay in the hospital. I
had to get back to my work. Sam and I

(30:22):
both entrepreneurs to my kids are between seven and two,
and I missed I missed a lot of The pandemic
obviously changed things because I've made me be home and
work from home. But I don't wind it sound cruel
when I say it, but I wouldn't change it, Like
I've built a business that is going to change their
lives and help them and and like there are lots
of other people who love them and I'm there when

(30:43):
it matters, like it's okay, did not want to change it.
I love that you said that, Amy, I have to be.
I guess then yes, if I'm totally honest, yes, Like,
but I didn't know if you to feel this way,
I guess to be. I guess if I'm going to
be totally totally honest. There's so much talk also about
like this idea of like and it's not that I'm
not a instant I'm not against it, but it's the
flexible work that sometimes you work, sometimes you don't work.

(31:04):
The problem is that doesn't actually work. Like it's more
intense than that. I mean sometimes that like you can't
build a major business part time. And it's and if
you want to be part time, and I applaud that,
and you want to spend more time with your children
and stuff, you should do that, but like there are
there tradeoffs. Like it's like like the tradeoff of building
the big business is you you miss some things with

(31:25):
your kids. I just feel like it's a very fashionable
thing that I hear in a lot of women's conferences
and a lot of it's just it's a very fashionable thing.
I always feel like I should be saying it. I
should be saying like yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It's
all about like frankly, like no, if I hear an
employee of mine, you know, wants to go part time,
it's not great news. I mean I say yes because
like what am I gonna do? Like like like it's fine,

(31:48):
but there's a level of commitment, especially if you want
to be an entrepreneur, that isn't even it's not even
twelve hours, it's twenty four hours. And now a quick break.
Talk to us about Great Gardens, because you've always been
not just fashionable yourself, but super interested in the history

(32:09):
of fashion and society. And it seems like Great Gardens
was like the perfect marriage of your private passions. That's funny. Yes,
I mean I do. I like fashion a lot. Obviously.
I think that Jackie and her sister Lee were two
of the most fashionable women you know, in the history
of fashionable women. That's Jackie Oh. For people who are
not Jackie Oh and Lee radz a well. But really,

(32:31):
the thing with Great Gardens, which it has an incredible history.
But the cool part for me, and what really attracted
me to it was I grew up, you know, under
the circumstances that we discussed, and so my parents at
a house basically around the corner from from Great Gardens.
When I was growing up, we had this state of
the art modern house that my parents close as friends.
Was this very very very well known at the time
modern architect named Charles gat Me. He built the house.

(32:54):
It was glass and modern. But all my friends all
around Eastampton when I was growing up, the houses were
these old shingle style kind of rambling. They called them cottages,
but that was, you know, not really and I really
love them. I think they're beautiful. They remind me of
oldis Tampton and most of them today have been torn down.
They've been replaced by you know, mic mansion's and you
know air zos versions of old of old Hampton's cottages.

(33:16):
But I really liked the real thing. So when greg
Arans came for sale, it wasn't just that it was
Great Gardens. I mean, that's the icing on the cake
that is so cool. I love it, But honestly, it
wasn't that I ever thought I was gonna live in
a home that Jackie Kennedy or Lee rads Awell family
lived in. That's nice, but I wasn't like obsessed with that.
It was really that I was obsessed with the idea
that there was this house that still maintained all its

(33:37):
old charm, that was still this beautiful, old, typical Hampton
style house. And I love the house. So it was
really that. Honestly, there's arms a lot of them, but
because it was Gregardens the owners prior to us, we're
also very well known Ben Bradley, who is no longer lied,
but the you know, the theater in chief of the
Washington Post to broke Watergate, and his wife, the journalist

(33:58):
and society column is very well known as well, Sally Quinn.
They own the house, and they have restored the house
when they bought it, instead of tearing it down because
you wouldn't tear down grey gardens, so they restored it
and then we were able to buy it from them,
and you know, I felt lucky, and it's very fun
to be there, and it's crazy how many people are
actually absolutely obsessed with that house. I'm not one of them,

(34:19):
but it surprised me that it surprises me the amount
of cars that stopped to stare over, you know, our
fence at that house, all day long, all night long.
I found people in our gardens like they jumped the fence,
like they're they're obsessed. They're like five Facebook groups devoted
just to grey gardens. It's funny. They'll say really mean
things like well, Liz Lange has a terrible taste, so
you can see what she did. It's hideous, like it's

(34:41):
it's actually hilarious. But anyway, so that's the house. Do
your kids do they share your optimism because you almost
have a Pollyanna as view. On the way to the
School of Us this morning, my daughter was worried about
being late and she's like, you're so calm, and I'm like,
things tend to work out. And she was like, boy,
you and I have different lives. I'm like, no, we don't.
We have different minds, perspectives, we have different mindsets. I

(35:05):
think my kids are more like yours. In fact, I
think I don't know if yours feel this way. I
think it almost frustrates them, like they think they mistaken
for sweeping things under the rug where I'm but it's
not that it's not that I'm unwilling to go into
the deeper issues. I'm very willing. But my first reaction
is kind of you're, okay, do you know what I mean?
Like because I genuinely mean it, but I feel like
they so yes. I think they think it's almost like

(35:27):
a strange superficiality or something. But that's like you like,
and that's why you've been successful of being an entrepreneur.
It's just kind of it's kind of who we are. Well,
if you think about it, like if you think about
entrepreneurship right, like the vast, vast, vast majority of businesses
are going to fail. You know that if you're still
willing to start one, like right, you gotta be. You
almost have like it's almost like a flaw. That's a positive,

(35:48):
but it's almost like you can't understand odds, like you're
just right, like it's like, why would we be doing this?
It doesn't make any sense, or not going to Vegas
together exactly exactly. It's gonna land on red. It's gonna
be an odd number, all right, It's all gonna work
out for me right now. I always say that I

(36:08):
have prozac running through my banks, like not blood, Like
I don't know what it would take to get me
really really upset, even like when your business, like every
day people have come to me with problems. I mean
my employees like this didn't happen, that didn't happen, this
day's happened. I always like thought, that's okay, So what's
the solution, no problem, what's the solution? And that's just
the way I kind of look at life. So what
is Liz Lang dressing like today? And can you give

(36:29):
me the advice on how I should be dressing today
in an efficient yet fashionable way. Okay, so some of
it depends on where you live, but yes, so I
basically switched from heels and a little ship dress. I
almost never wear that. The reason I'm not this is
not a shameless plug, it's just the truth. The reason
that I bought fig was because I was living in
Palm Beach during the pandemic and it struck me while

(36:52):
I was down here that as comfortable as my sweatsuits
had been in East Hampton the year prior, that I
could just throw on a caftain every morning. People would
say stop me on the street and say, and a
pair of slides or a pair of flip flops, but
with my calftan, and people would say to me, you
look fabulous, Oh my gosh, what did you do, And
I'm like, oh, no, I did nothing. I'm basically in
my nightgown. That's how comfortable I am. So so to

(37:13):
me right now, I've replaced the shift dress with a calftan.
I mean, maybe I've just entered my calf ten years
a minute. But I wear a caftan almost every single day.
I'm not wearing one on this podcast because I feel
like it's very unflattering to be in something like really
billowy when you're on a screen. But I basically wear
a calftan. And when I'm not wearing a calftan, I'm
kind of wearing an upscale. If I'm somewhere cold, I'm

(37:36):
probably wearing an upscale version a polished not upscale, a
polished version of a sweatsuit, a matching set that I like, like,
you know, maybe it's made of the loor, maybe it's
made of kashmere, but like I'm a matching set and flats.
I don't really wear heels anymore. So do we get
this proud name? What book are you reading? Oh, I
just read Who Is Maud Dixon? I loved it. Who

(37:57):
Is Maude Dixon? It's fiction, it's a mystery, and it's
it's a page turner that's also very well written Who
Is My Dicks? And I can't recommend it strongly enough.
When is your morning routine? I get up very early,
around six am. I have two cups of coffee. And
then because I'm in Palm Beach, I live on the
Lake Trail, and I walk that trail back and forth.
It's like about I do about a five mile walk.
I make a lot of my morning phone calls while

(38:17):
I'm on that walk. I listen to music, I relax,
sometimes listen to podcasts just news of the day, and
that's kind of my morning. And then then then I
get home and it's about ten am, or sometimes it's
nine thirty, and I'm ready to kind of shower and
start my day. Who leaves you star struck? I've got
to be honest. I don't get star struck because I
dealt with so many celebrities when I was dressing them.

(38:38):
I'll just say this, many of them are lovely, most
of them are. But don't meet your heroes. Um, that's
my advice, so I don't. I've had too many up
close and personal encounters. I'll leave it at that. What's
your favorite thing about yourself? I think it is my optimism.
I think that helps a lot. That's my favorite thing.
And I have a lot of energy, just naturally, very

(39:01):
very high energy. So lu Burns has been listening to
our entire conversation and he comes in at the end
of each episode with the male perspective and usually a
doozy of a question. Is there something else in your life,
like an activity or a person or a place that
you want to do or that you do that brings

(39:21):
you that same type of joy? I have to say, like,
this is so surprising to me. I am a New
York Or through and through. I was born on the
Upper East Side. I spent my other than my four
years in Providenzrael, Rhode Island when I went to Brown
for college. I've always lived in New York, not just
in New York but actually on the Upper East Side, right,
I've always lived there. And if you would ask me,
I'd say I could never leave New York City. It's

(39:42):
who I am. It's almost like I am New York City.
And during COVID because we were all forced to do
things that you know, we didn't expect, kicking and screaming.
I was in East Tamptons thinking like, you know, this
is for one week, maybe two weeks, like so many
of us, and it's slowly, slowly something too cold to me.
And I think I started to change and I started
walking outside and spending more time outside and listening to

(40:04):
things and just slowing down in a way. And it
changed me completely. And now I would say spending, And
now I switched from me Stampton to Palm Beach. Spending
time in pomp Beach makes me so happy. Like before
before COVID, my husband said to me at one point week,
we have a house in Palm Beach. He's I think
it was like maybe it was two thousand twenty, but
pre COVID, he said, I think we should try to

(40:25):
like spend our weekends in pump Beach. Maybe we leave
and go there Thursday nights. And I was like, are
you smoking crack? Like I'm not spending my weekends and
pump Beach like I we have a life, your dirt,
like no social life, Like we're just gonna be a
pump beach all the time cut to I've chosen to
live here from like the entire winter. I feel like
pinch me. Every day I wake up here to this
blue sky, the fact that I can walk, to the

(40:47):
fact that I could be sitting outside, and it makes
me extraordinarily happy. I feel like I've never been happier.
That maybe my truth was in New York City, like
all along, like who knew I loved talking to Liz.
I mean there's just so much there. Yeah, I love
how open she is, and as you know, I relate

(41:09):
a lot to her positivity. There's just something about the
way she floats through her life and I say flow
intentionally because even the challenges, she just makes it all work.
There were actually so many times during the conversation whereas
like I feel like when Liz is speaking, Sam is
speaking because you you have such positivity. I mean, in

(41:32):
the hardest moments of my life, you're just like it's
going to get better because it has to get better,
and we're just going to keep moving. You just but
like that kind of view on life is really important.
I Mean, she's been through a lot a ton if
you have to go through a lot of things in life,
which we all do right. We are all going to
go through very hard things to be able to look
at it and say, this is happening, This isn't fair,

(41:54):
this is terrible. But what I can do is control
my reaction and keep moving Like that makes life a
lot better. Yeah. And by the way, all of the
things you just mentioned, whether it's her health or her
marriage following apart, any of those things could level a
person right and her company, her financial situation going bust.

(42:14):
I mean, there were so many times she could have
been leveled and she just kept getting back up. And
it's I really credit her mindset for so much of it.
I really do. And I also think one thing, one
big takeaway too, when she talked about meeting her husband,
her current husband and first date, like first meeting there
wasn't you know, wasn't any chemistry, but always taking that

(42:35):
second date. I think that lesson is important for friendships
because we can build it. We can make new friends
as adults. Sam and I made new friends as adults,
Like we need to remember we can do that, but
you might not hit it off the first time, or
people you're doing business with, like always kind of like
sticking to it past that initial thing I feel like
you a culture of instant gratification. We forget that sometimes relationships,

(42:59):
all relationships take time. In the first impression might not
be the one that defines the years to come. As
an excellent point. By the way, Amy, I will say
that Liz Lang is like my personal fashion icon. Okay,
So when she told me to wear like solid shift
dresses and heels and no panty hose, like I literally
my entire closet is full of that, right, And then

(43:20):
the pandemic hit and I'm like, oh crap, nobody wears
high heels anymore and I don't need to be cold
anymore when I'm speaking, so I'm gonna wear like pant
suits and stuff like that. But then when she said
that she normally wears monochrome sweatsuits and ballet flats, do
you know what I did? The next day? I gave
myself permission to buy a monica sweatsuit and ballet flats.

(43:43):
And my daughters are like, oh my gosh, you're gonna
wear ballet flats. Now, how old are you. I'm like, no,
so look I love it, and Ruby's like please, mom,
please no, and I'm like I love it. I can
see this entire conversation happening in your house. That is amazing. Well,
I think you know, Liz inspired me and I think

(44:03):
she's someone to look up to. Thanks for listening to
What's Her Story with Sam and Amy. We would appreciate
it if you leave her review wherever you get your podcasts,
and of course, connect with us on social media at
What's Her Story podcast. What's Her Story with Sam and
Amy is powered by my company, The Riveter at The
Riveter dot c O and Sam's company, park Place Payments

(44:26):
at park place Payments dot com. Thanks to our producer
Stacy Para and our male perspective Blue Burns