January 14, 2021 • 25 mins
Amidst a historic moment in America, What’s Her Story with Sam & Amy interviews political pundit Molly Jong-Fast. In this timely interview, Jong-Fast discusses being raised by a famous mother, the role sobriety has played in her life, and her journey to becoming a leading political voice and Editor-at-large of The Daily Beast. As the United States Congress impeaches a President twice for the first time in history, it could not be a better time to hear from Molly Jong-Fast.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Sam Ennis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to
What's Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a
show about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and
personal journeys. Together, we'll hear from gold medalists, best selling authors,
and leaders of the world's most iconic brands. This week,
we have Molly john Fast on the show. She's a
(00:22):
political pundit and author, and she's also the editor at
large for The Daily Beast. We interviewed Molly a few
weeks ago, and I feel like there is no better
time than now to have Molly as our guest, because,
I mean, last week was such a seismic turning point
in American history, and next week is going to be
a different turning point. And even though we couldn't ask
(00:43):
her about the events of last week, I do think
that so much of what she shares every day on
Twitter and and in the media is is so relevant.
So let's dive in. The reason that we wanted to
interview you is because I feel like I've been following
you on Twitter for so long. We've been connected through
social media. I love reading your perspective on things, and
(01:07):
I think that in many ways, when you share your story.
It inspires other people to realize like, oh my gosh,
you can make a career out of being an activist,
out of speaking your mind, out of not shielding the
world from your opinions, and you can make a difference
that way. So maybe you could share with us how
you became kind of a pundit and an activist as
a career. UM. So I would say makeup living is
(01:29):
a bit of a strategy. And I would also say, like,
I'm not an I don't like to say I'm not
an activist and more of like, um, an opinion columnist.
So um. What's good about that is that I don't
have to um reports straight news, so I sometimes do that. Um.
And what's good about that is that I can have
(01:51):
an opinion. Because I'm sober twenty three years, I have
a lot of thoughts about like my propis on this
earth in a way that I might I think not
if I wasn't over a long time. So that of
course affects my writing in the way that I get
a little bit you know more you know, attached to
(02:15):
you know, the Senate candidate from Mississippi, my guest being,
you know, because I want African Americans to be able
to take back the South, right, this is a place
where it's I mean, Mississippi is a great example. It's
a you know, it's the largest population of African Americans
in the South, but they don't get to govern because
(02:37):
of the racism and because of the just the legacy
of racism and the and just voter suppression. And so
I do feel like I'm lucky and the fact that
I have this place on this earth and that I
can get to do that stuff. You know, we have
this Senate that has like almost no African Americans in it,
(02:58):
even though it's for you know, the fort of population,
like they're so much inequality. So I do feel very
excited to be able to do stuff like that. My
path has been very circuitous because I wrote these novels
and then I started writing political stuff. And I had
always sort of written about myself. And there are certain
things that are shared experiences where I feel very comfortable
(03:21):
writing about them, and I feel like they helped me
to write about them, they help other people to write
about them. And I do the podcast, and I do
the columns for The Daily Beast, and I do columns
for Vogue. But you know, The reason why I started
doing this is because it was I just couldn't believe
the corruption and inequality, Like I just couldn't like I
(03:44):
couldn't even wrap my head around it. Well, what were
you doing a Biden presidency? I mean, I think I'll
do the same thing. You know. I interviewed mashed guests
and on the podcast on my podcast, and we're talking
about like it's not over. Like Trump, they almost overturned
the election, and and Biden won four states more than Trump,
(04:07):
and they still almost overturned the election. So if you
think that they're not gonna try to overturn or maybe
overturn the election the next time, you know, we are
like about a heartbeat from autocracy, and so you know,
the next one years are going to be really scary.
It's funny in some ways, I never like I'm more
scared now than I was in November, because in November,
(04:32):
I thought, well, Biden will win and things will go
back to normal. But like, it's so clear that what's
happened in the Republican Party is I mean, Mitch McConnell
finally acknowledged Biden to win forty two days after the election.
So I just feel like it, we're in situprecarious situation.
I also think like trying to hold power accountaball is
(04:54):
is not something that's partisan. When you look at the
other actors in addition to Trump, what do you think
is going to happen to someone like Steve Manuchan or Avanka?
Where are they going to go in the next four years?
That is like the ten million dollar question, And I think,
(05:15):
you know it's I mean, I think what's going to
be awful? Awful? I think it's a wrong word. What's
going to be interesting and strange and also probably awful
is um you know, Avanka and Laura Trump and all
those people running for office. I mean they are the
(05:35):
de facto Republican Party at this point. So and uh,
Steve Bannon, and you know, there are a lot of
these people still in the world. So I think there's
gonna be a lot of stuff. Mnuchin, will barrass Junior,
there are a lot of really Larry Cudlo, I mean,
these people have really gotten away with murder Jared Kushner,
(05:56):
So you don't think there's going to be legal action
against them. So, you know, again it's like that idea,
like how do you stop in autocracy, like how how what?
How do you do that? Right? How do you undo
where we are? And the question and I again I'm
asking this, I don't really know, you know, like there
(06:18):
needs to be a narrative about where people sort of
understand what happened over the last four years. And there
are a lot of people who are sort of brainwashed
from this, like you know, the Q and on people
and and Trump is um did well in New York
like there are gonna be there's there's a lot that
(06:39):
has to be undone. I think that some people believed
Trump and some people were tripped by Trump, and you know,
some people were willing to trade off the incompetence for
the racism. I'm very hesitant about the Attorney General prosecuting
the previous administration because of the president it sets, and
(07:01):
already we have so many like autocratic precedences that have
been said, even just by like Trump's fucking with the
election for the last forty two days. That said, I
do think there needs to be some kind of accountability. Um.
I know that the New York AG is looking into
(07:23):
a lot of stuff, and there's so much corruption. I
think we just need to sort of watch a play
out and now for a quick break. What was it
like to grow up with Erica John such a powerful woman, writer, feminist,
controversial figure in in your life as your mother? What
(07:43):
was that like? You know, in some ways it's so
talking about your family. Talking about your relationship with your
mother is so hard and to have to have and
not I'm not complaining because like I'm very lucky that
I had a lot of bandages because she was my mother,
But um, that it's such a hard It's so hard
(08:07):
to talk about a relationship like that, especially when you're
not the famous one that. Um, it was good for
me in some ways because it was so incredibly uncomfortable.
So I have talked about I mean, you know, it's
like any I don't know that it's more interesting than
other mother daughter relationships, but you know, and she has
(08:29):
done a lot of cool stuff that I'm very grateful
for as a woman and as a person. Um, but yeah,
I mean she's great and I am a big fan
of hers, and she is extremely supportive mom, you know.
And I feel like sometimes when I read the old
stuff you've written about your mom, and some of it
(08:49):
I relate to because I had a very strong mother
who unfortunately passed away a few years ago, But we
had a complicated relationship even though I loved her so
much and was so um inspired by her. I think
there's an interesting influence having such a strong feminist as
a mom um, and I see it in your work today.
(09:12):
How has it impacted what you do today? I felt
like everyone who was a woman worked and that that
was okay. I don't know that I knew you could
like be a woman and not work. Ultimately, now everybody works, right,
there are these sort of very very few people where
(09:35):
they don't work, but it's you know, largely the the
world sort of has changed and and there's no longer
that luxury. I think my mom was you know, she
did the best she could, and I think that it
was very tough for her. She had a very crazy mother,
like very very crazy mother who um, who traveled a
(09:56):
lot because my grandfather was an exporter, importer and so,
and my grandmother was worried that he had another family
in Japan. So my mother was very was brought up
mostly by her grandparents, so compared to her mother, she
was an incredible mother. Well, I just have to dig in,
(10:17):
like why did your grandmother think that there was another
family in Japan, because a lot of the guys that
my grandfather worked with had other families in Japan, Like
this was not an unusual thing because you go to
Japan in the forties for a month, right, you know.
It was crazy and my grandmother was quite crazy, but
(10:38):
she was also like may have been onto something, so
you know, I mean it's those complicated choices that people made.
How did all this impact You're thinking about becoming a
mother and then being a mother? Well, I've written about
this a bit, but my actually got pregnant by accident
when I was twenty four and I was engaged, and
a lot of my friends were like, you weren't saying
(11:00):
and uh And I actually wrote a piece for the
Wall Street Journal editorial page about this, and I actually
really hate the Wall Street Journal editorial page, so which
just funny. But I had a very kind of you know,
I didn't know what to do. But I ended up
having my son, who I love, Max, and he's going
(11:21):
to be seventeen, and then I have to who are
going to be thirteen? You know, So it wasn't so
much a choice I made as much as a choice
that was sort of made for me, But I think
it was actually very good for me, because I don't
know that I I think I would have had trouble
making that kind of decision because it is a big decision.
But I'm really got to head kids. They you know,
(11:42):
they're like, you know, our connection to the world in
a lot of ways. So I feel very lucky to
have them. Is it fair to say that in the
last five years your star has risen exponentially career wives,
I don't know. I spent a lot of my life
as uh, in my childhood, my like grandfather musing about
how he had been famous and how painful it was
(12:05):
to no longer be famous or the way he had
been famous. And then I had my mother, who was famous,
sort of have this similar experience. So I, you know,
I have a very sort of circumspect view of all
of this, which is that you know, I'm here to
sort of do my work and do the best I can.
I have seen in my from my grandfather and my mother,
(12:28):
just that um if that they they what you don't
want is you don't want to become the story. You
really want to always be able to cover the story.
I find myself very boring and I also find that,
you know, me talking about myself just doesn't it just doesn't.
(12:49):
It feels in my mind anyway, that it doesn't really
move the world in any particularly important way. So in
terms of your own life on a daily basis, you're
on Twitter, how the hours a day? Well, so I
disabled my screen time things like I don't need to
be shamed by my phone anymore than I Yeah, like
I disabled all the as soon as that thing started
(13:11):
popping up, I was like, go funk yourself. So I
don't have so I don't know, I mean, but also
it's your job. I mean, really, where I was going
with this is it seems like you can't afford not
to be on Twitter. So if you're at family dinner,
what's that like? Is your phone at the table? I mean,
so I would say, I first of all, I like
bristle at the idea of any of this being a job,
(13:33):
Like I am lucky to get to have people read
what I write. Um, I think that the worst thing
you can do with social media is approach it like
a job and be like this is my sponsored content,
Like this is this opportunity to connect with people you've
never met, you may never meet people in different places,
(13:54):
like I love it, like I love it when people
send me d M. I don't love the death threats
so much, but I like to. I like it because
I like to read what people are writing, and so
you get to see, you know, you get to see
what everybody's reading. You don't miss anything. I get a
bunch of newsletters in the morning too, so when I
wake up, I get my I get the I get
(14:15):
the AP Newswire, I get the Politico. I get a
bunch of different newsletters I get to see each other.
One I get Brian Stelter newsletter. Times has a bunch
of really good newsletters. I read. Um. David Lionheart from
the Times is like one of my favorites. I read
Um Stelter, So I read that every day, UM and
(14:38):
then I But then if something is really good, I
shared on social media, and then I'll actually see Columbia
Journalism Review c JR. There's a very very good newsletter
that I like a lot. And then there's another newsletter
called The Writing, which is like the right wing extremism newsletter,
which I read too. I wish it were a little
more like Falsome and had more links and stuff, but
(15:02):
it's good. You know, I'm around for kids, um which
is as you know, constant, and now for a quick break.
But what are your evenings like? Well, I mean, because
it's a pandemic, my evenings are like, you know, my
daughter and I are watching the Great British Bake Show
right now, baking show and we love it. Um and
(15:26):
my sons are like ignoring me, and then um my,
I put everyone to sleep, and my husband and I
are watching the Sopranos so like, which we've never seen.
And when you're watching the Sopranos or their husbands, are
you also checking your phone constantly to make sure you're
not missing things. I'm not like crazy about it. And
in fact, I have my settings on my Twitter, so
(15:49):
I don't My Instagram is not enabled, so I don't
see any push notifications, so that means I do about
like of what. I don't know anything that happens on
Instagram except when I check it, which is great, so
I check it like four times a day. I have
no idea what's happening there. Like I'll respond to d
m s from random people, but it's so like not
(16:11):
it's so like in the background and you never check Facebook,
and then with Twitter, I check, but I have my
notifications in a way that I only get from people
I followed. I have a question about your kids. So
we've touched on but what do they know about your work?
So my kids know? You know, I mean, I don't
think they're particularly interested in it, but they know what
(16:34):
I do, and I hope people don't talk to them
in that same creepy way they talk to me about
my mother. But um, but you know, if they do,
that's okay. Um, they know what I do and they
have they're sort of interested in it. I you know,
I tell them I don't hide anything, but I don't
(16:54):
push them if they're not interested. I mean, your perspective
online it's quite controversial. Do you feel like are also
like that in real life? Or what are you like
in real life at a dinner party or you know,
when people see each other again? In real life, I
get along with people. I mean, I don't have you know,
I don't feel like I have combative relationships with people.
(17:15):
My problem is more just than I'm like distracted and disorganized.
I don't feel like I have you know, I have
friends who are I mean, I'm friends with Nicollespie who's
the editor of Reason magazine, who's like, he's a libertarian
and he's wrong about everything. Like, I don't feel like
I can only be friends with people who are liberal.
But I do feel like and I have friends who
(17:37):
are really conservative. But that it does, that doesn't that's
not to too, that doesn't um. You know, I don't
think I need everyone to believe what I believe. We've
talked a lot about kind of the state of America,
which is pretty bad right now. But one thing that
I think about a lot, because I have a lot
(17:58):
of friends or family members and recovery, is the isolation
of the pandemic for people who are in recovery and
not being able to go to meetings to be able
to get help. Like what what do you like? What
has that been like for you? Oh? So I do
a zoom a A meeting every night, and I am
very happy with my zoom a A and I have
you know, I zoomed with my sponsors and I talked
(18:21):
to my sponsor. I don't I mean, I think, you know,
it's hard, it's a hard time, but I think, like
if you read the Big Book, they talk about like
soldiers in World War two, staying sober with big books.
So compared to that, I don't think it's so hard.
You reference, um, some death threats. How do you choose
(18:44):
what to react to and what to take seriously when
it comes to safety? You know, because I had this
mother who was who was always getting harassed and we
had a stock or growing up. Um, I certain things
I always did have really served me. So like I
ever was, I never had my address in any like anything,
(19:05):
and UM, so that's been good. Um. And you know,
I'm just careful. I'm pretty careful, or try to be
pretty careful. We're going to head to our lightning round now.
Are going to ask you a few quick questions and
then lose going to ask the final question. Grade, what's
your relationship like today with your childhood friends? I mean,
I have a very close friend from kindergarten through fourth
(19:28):
grade who I'm still tight with, and a very close
friend from four through uh eighth grade that I'm still
tight with, and a high school friend that I'm still
tight with. So I have one from each of those
stages and they're great. I love them. What are you reading?
I am reading this whole I'm reading like about five
(19:51):
books at once. It's a whole complicated menagerie of books
about history. Is there any selet pretty that would leave
you starstruck? And me? And I would like to have
Kamala on the podcast that one. I would like that,
So that would be good. I know there are a
(20:12):
lot of people that I'm interested in that I think
are smart, that I'm you know, are impressed by lu
Do you want to join us for the final question? Yeah? Hi,
Molly Hilo, where are you? Hey? Money, I've been sober
almost eight years now, So I think you for being
(20:33):
sober and helping so many other people along their journey
of finding recovery. Because right now, like what I do
when I'm not doing other stuff is I do food
delivery and alcohol delivery is like on the Rise, you know,
not also have like a huge community over Zoom and
(20:54):
there's a couple of park meetings that I attend. But
there's a lot of people coming into the program right now,
you know, and some of them are like like just
like on the on the fence, you know, could you
give some words of wisdom to somebody that's listening right
now that's kind of like on the fence during this
pandemic Yeah, it's something I think a lot about because
we are about to have this and I think we're
(21:16):
in the middle of a very profound mental health crisis
from the pandit, you know, which is it's funny because
it's like people will politicize the pandemic and say, like,
because I I've known all these people have killed themselves
this year, and I've just seen a lot of really
terrible tragedies, and and they'll say, well, it's the lockdowns.
It's not the lockdowns, it's the whole thing. It's the
(21:37):
people dying in their cars. Right. It's just so traumatic
for all of us that we are having this mental
health crisis. And I would say, um, you know, getting
sober for me was the greatest thing I've ever done
and I'd save my life. So it's a little bit scary,
but we're here for you and we can help you.
And there are gazillion meetings on doom, and you know,
(22:02):
I think that there's no reason to just not come
to a meeting. You don't have to stop drinking. You
can just come to a meeting and see how you'd
like it. So that would be my advice for people
who are feeling like alcohol is a problem for them.
You know, I think a lot of people are going
to need to get sober after this. All right, Molly,
thank you so much for your time. Thank you, guys,
(22:23):
this is great. Thank you for having Molly is such
a unique person, and I appreciate how candid she is.
She really did not like it when I refer to
Twitter as her job. She but I appreciate that. I mean,
it's really good perspective, whether you are a CEO or
(22:44):
just a human being using Twitter as a voyer. I
think it's what she's really saying is, you know, Twitter
is another distribution platform for communicating a message, for connecting
with people, and when you think of it as a job,
you're probably not using it correctly. I I first got
on Twitter when I was doing my talk show with
Gary Va Intercheck and he insisted again on Twitter, and
(23:05):
I kind of got on there kicking and screaming many
years ago, and he taught me everything I know about
using Twitter. But he was he had very specific ideology
around it and how you were supposed to use it.
And he used to always say to me, you have
to interact with every single person who connects with you
and writes to you on Twitter, which obviously is hard
to do, right. Well, I mean, well, Sam, that's my question, right,
(23:27):
Like I use Twitter to um, but like, how much
time do you spend on Twitter on a given day?
Be honest with I mean, I have it in the
background all day long, So I am very active on
Twitter all day just kind of that's where I get
my news. And so obviously if I'm in a meeting,
I'm not checking Twitter. But as soon as I'm out
(23:47):
of a meeting, just like I would check my email,
I check my Twitter. So I do see it as
like my connection to the world. What I personally struggle
with is I'm very politically a canny need it on Twitter,
and at park Place it's been an issue a little bit.
We we did lose a client recently because of my
(24:07):
political activism on Twitter. Although I'm just not willing to
not stand up for what I believe in, even if
it does mean sometimes, you know, affecting your bottom line.
I think there's just as many people who would then
want to use us because of my political views. Yeah, no,
I agree with you. I mean you're always making those
decisions as a CEO, Like I definitely have signed letters
supporting abortion rights, and it was an issue, but you
(24:30):
do what you do. Like I don't think there's a
big separation between who I am personally and who I
am as the leader of a company. I also think
there is an upside to Twitter, Like I think I
use it less than you because I will sometimes just
like not log on for days on end. My brain
doesn't work that way, but um, but I will say
that Twitter has been massively helpful to me in building
(24:51):
a business, and I think people should talk about that
more because for me with the Riveter, I use Twitter
to let the world know about my business and to
interact at the media because the media is all over Twitter, right,
and so when you're commenting on their stories, they get
to know you. And if you're building a business outside
of a major media market, which I was in Seattle,
you are able to get their attention and kind of
(25:12):
develop these relationships. Thanks for listening to What's Her Story
with Sam and Amy. We would so appreciate if you
would leave a review wherever you get your podcasts, and
of course connect with us on social media at What's
Her Story podcast. What's Her Story with Sam and Amy
is powered by my company, The Riveter at the Riveter
(25:33):
dot c O in Sam's company, park Place Payments at
park place payments dot com. Thanks to our producer Laurel Mogulin,
our podcast associate Emma Hard, and our male perspective Lue Burns.
Hi, I'm Sam Ennis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to
What's Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a
show about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and
personal journeys. Together, we'll hear from gold medalists, best selling authors,
and leaders of the world's most iconic brands. This week,
we have Molly john Fast on the show. She's a
(00:22):
political pundit and author, and she's also the editor at
large for The Daily Beast. We interviewed Molly a few
weeks ago, and I feel like there is no better
time than now to have Molly as our guest, because,
I mean, last week was such a seismic turning point
in American history, and next week is going to be
a different turning point. And even though we couldn't ask
(00:43):
her about the events of last week, I do think
that so much of what she shares every day on
Twitter and and in the media is is so relevant.
So let's dive in. The reason that we wanted to
interview you is because I feel like I've been following
you on Twitter for so long. We've been connected through
social media. I love reading your perspective on things, and
(01:07):
I think that in many ways, when you share your story.
It inspires other people to realize like, oh my gosh,
you can make a career out of being an activist,
out of speaking your mind, out of not shielding the
world from your opinions, and you can make a difference
that way. So maybe you could share with us how
you became kind of a pundit and an activist as
a career. UM. So I would say makeup living is
(01:29):
a bit of a strategy. And I would also say, like,
I'm not an I don't like to say I'm not
an activist and more of like, um, an opinion columnist.
So um. What's good about that is that I don't
have to um reports straight news, so I sometimes do that. Um.
And what's good about that is that I can have
(01:51):
an opinion. Because I'm sober twenty three years, I have
a lot of thoughts about like my propis on this
earth in a way that I might I think not
if I wasn't over a long time. So that of
course affects my writing in the way that I get
a little bit you know more you know, attached to
(02:15):
you know, the Senate candidate from Mississippi, my guest being,
you know, because I want African Americans to be able
to take back the South, right, this is a place
where it's I mean, Mississippi is a great example. It's
a you know, it's the largest population of African Americans
in the South, but they don't get to govern because
(02:37):
of the racism and because of the just the legacy
of racism and the and just voter suppression. And so
I do feel like I'm lucky and the fact that
I have this place on this earth and that I
can get to do that stuff. You know, we have
this Senate that has like almost no African Americans in it,
(02:58):
even though it's for you know, the fort of population,
like they're so much inequality. So I do feel very
excited to be able to do stuff like that. My
path has been very circuitous because I wrote these novels
and then I started writing political stuff. And I had
always sort of written about myself. And there are certain
things that are shared experiences where I feel very comfortable
(03:21):
writing about them, and I feel like they helped me
to write about them, they help other people to write
about them. And I do the podcast, and I do
the columns for The Daily Beast, and I do columns
for Vogue. But you know, The reason why I started
doing this is because it was I just couldn't believe
the corruption and inequality, Like I just couldn't like I
(03:44):
couldn't even wrap my head around it. Well, what were
you doing a Biden presidency? I mean, I think I'll
do the same thing. You know. I interviewed mashed guests
and on the podcast on my podcast, and we're talking
about like it's not over. Like Trump, they almost overturned
the election, and and Biden won four states more than Trump,
(04:07):
and they still almost overturned the election. So if you
think that they're not gonna try to overturn or maybe
overturn the election the next time, you know, we are
like about a heartbeat from autocracy, and so you know,
the next one years are going to be really scary.
It's funny in some ways, I never like I'm more
scared now than I was in November, because in November,
(04:32):
I thought, well, Biden will win and things will go
back to normal. But like, it's so clear that what's
happened in the Republican Party is I mean, Mitch McConnell
finally acknowledged Biden to win forty two days after the election.
So I just feel like it, we're in situprecarious situation.
I also think like trying to hold power accountaball is
(04:54):
is not something that's partisan. When you look at the
other actors in addition to Trump, what do you think
is going to happen to someone like Steve Manuchan or Avanka?
Where are they going to go in the next four years?
That is like the ten million dollar question, And I think,
(05:15):
you know it's I mean, I think what's going to
be awful? Awful? I think it's a wrong word. What's
going to be interesting and strange and also probably awful
is um you know, Avanka and Laura Trump and all
those people running for office. I mean they are the
(05:35):
de facto Republican Party at this point. So and uh,
Steve Bannon, and you know, there are a lot of
these people still in the world. So I think there's
gonna be a lot of stuff. Mnuchin, will barrass Junior,
there are a lot of really Larry Cudlo, I mean,
these people have really gotten away with murder Jared Kushner,
(05:56):
So you don't think there's going to be legal action
against them. So, you know, again it's like that idea,
like how do you stop in autocracy, like how how what?
How do you do that? Right? How do you undo
where we are? And the question and I again I'm
asking this, I don't really know, you know, like there
(06:18):
needs to be a narrative about where people sort of
understand what happened over the last four years. And there
are a lot of people who are sort of brainwashed
from this, like you know, the Q and on people
and and Trump is um did well in New York
like there are gonna be there's there's a lot that
(06:39):
has to be undone. I think that some people believed
Trump and some people were tripped by Trump, and you know,
some people were willing to trade off the incompetence for
the racism. I'm very hesitant about the Attorney General prosecuting
the previous administration because of the president it sets, and
(07:01):
already we have so many like autocratic precedences that have
been said, even just by like Trump's fucking with the
election for the last forty two days. That said, I
do think there needs to be some kind of accountability. Um.
I know that the New York AG is looking into
(07:23):
a lot of stuff, and there's so much corruption. I
think we just need to sort of watch a play
out and now for a quick break. What was it
like to grow up with Erica John such a powerful woman, writer, feminist,
controversial figure in in your life as your mother? What
(07:43):
was that like? You know, in some ways it's so
talking about your family. Talking about your relationship with your
mother is so hard and to have to have and
not I'm not complaining because like I'm very lucky that
I had a lot of bandages because she was my mother,
But um, that it's such a hard It's so hard
(08:07):
to talk about a relationship like that, especially when you're
not the famous one that. Um, it was good for
me in some ways because it was so incredibly uncomfortable.
So I have talked about I mean, you know, it's
like any I don't know that it's more interesting than
other mother daughter relationships, but you know, and she has
(08:29):
done a lot of cool stuff that I'm very grateful
for as a woman and as a person. Um, but yeah,
I mean she's great and I am a big fan
of hers, and she is extremely supportive mom, you know.
And I feel like sometimes when I read the old
stuff you've written about your mom, and some of it
(08:49):
I relate to because I had a very strong mother
who unfortunately passed away a few years ago, But we
had a complicated relationship even though I loved her so
much and was so um inspired by her. I think
there's an interesting influence having such a strong feminist as
a mom um, and I see it in your work today.
(09:12):
How has it impacted what you do today? I felt
like everyone who was a woman worked and that that
was okay. I don't know that I knew you could
like be a woman and not work. Ultimately, now everybody works, right,
there are these sort of very very few people where
(09:35):
they don't work, but it's you know, largely the the
world sort of has changed and and there's no longer
that luxury. I think my mom was you know, she
did the best she could, and I think that it
was very tough for her. She had a very crazy mother,
like very very crazy mother who um, who traveled a
(09:56):
lot because my grandfather was an exporter, importer and so,
and my grandmother was worried that he had another family
in Japan. So my mother was very was brought up
mostly by her grandparents, so compared to her mother, she
was an incredible mother. Well, I just have to dig in,
(10:17):
like why did your grandmother think that there was another
family in Japan, because a lot of the guys that
my grandfather worked with had other families in Japan, Like
this was not an unusual thing because you go to
Japan in the forties for a month, right, you know.
It was crazy and my grandmother was quite crazy, but
(10:38):
she was also like may have been onto something, so
you know, I mean it's those complicated choices that people made.
How did all this impact You're thinking about becoming a
mother and then being a mother? Well, I've written about
this a bit, but my actually got pregnant by accident
when I was twenty four and I was engaged, and
a lot of my friends were like, you weren't saying
(11:00):
and uh And I actually wrote a piece for the
Wall Street Journal editorial page about this, and I actually
really hate the Wall Street Journal editorial page, so which
just funny. But I had a very kind of you know,
I didn't know what to do. But I ended up
having my son, who I love, Max, and he's going
(11:21):
to be seventeen, and then I have to who are
going to be thirteen? You know, So it wasn't so
much a choice I made as much as a choice
that was sort of made for me, But I think
it was actually very good for me, because I don't
know that I I think I would have had trouble
making that kind of decision because it is a big decision.
But I'm really got to head kids. They you know,
(11:42):
they're like, you know, our connection to the world in
a lot of ways. So I feel very lucky to
have them. Is it fair to say that in the
last five years your star has risen exponentially career wives,
I don't know. I spent a lot of my life
as uh, in my childhood, my like grandfather musing about
how he had been famous and how painful it was
(12:05):
to no longer be famous or the way he had
been famous. And then I had my mother, who was famous,
sort of have this similar experience. So I, you know,
I have a very sort of circumspect view of all
of this, which is that you know, I'm here to
sort of do my work and do the best I can.
I have seen in my from my grandfather and my mother,
(12:28):
just that um if that they they what you don't
want is you don't want to become the story. You
really want to always be able to cover the story.
I find myself very boring and I also find that,
you know, me talking about myself just doesn't it just doesn't.
(12:49):
It feels in my mind anyway, that it doesn't really
move the world in any particularly important way. So in
terms of your own life on a daily basis, you're
on Twitter, how the hours a day? Well, so I
disabled my screen time things like I don't need to
be shamed by my phone anymore than I Yeah, like
I disabled all the as soon as that thing started
(13:11):
popping up, I was like, go funk yourself. So I
don't have so I don't know, I mean, but also
it's your job. I mean, really, where I was going
with this is it seems like you can't afford not
to be on Twitter. So if you're at family dinner,
what's that like? Is your phone at the table? I mean,
so I would say, I first of all, I like
bristle at the idea of any of this being a job,
(13:33):
Like I am lucky to get to have people read
what I write. Um, I think that the worst thing
you can do with social media is approach it like
a job and be like this is my sponsored content,
Like this is this opportunity to connect with people you've
never met, you may never meet people in different places,
(13:54):
like I love it, like I love it when people
send me d M. I don't love the death threats
so much, but I like to. I like it because
I like to read what people are writing, and so
you get to see, you know, you get to see
what everybody's reading. You don't miss anything. I get a
bunch of newsletters in the morning too, so when I
wake up, I get my I get the I get
(14:15):
the AP Newswire, I get the Politico. I get a
bunch of different newsletters I get to see each other.
One I get Brian Stelter newsletter. Times has a bunch
of really good newsletters. I read. Um. David Lionheart from
the Times is like one of my favorites. I read
Um Stelter, So I read that every day, UM and
(14:38):
then I But then if something is really good, I
shared on social media, and then I'll actually see Columbia
Journalism Review c JR. There's a very very good newsletter
that I like a lot. And then there's another newsletter
called The Writing, which is like the right wing extremism newsletter,
which I read too. I wish it were a little
more like Falsome and had more links and stuff, but
(15:02):
it's good. You know, I'm around for kids, um which
is as you know, constant, and now for a quick break.
But what are your evenings like? Well, I mean, because
it's a pandemic, my evenings are like, you know, my
daughter and I are watching the Great British Bake Show
right now, baking show and we love it. Um and
(15:26):
my sons are like ignoring me, and then um my,
I put everyone to sleep, and my husband and I
are watching the Sopranos so like, which we've never seen.
And when you're watching the Sopranos or their husbands, are
you also checking your phone constantly to make sure you're
not missing things. I'm not like crazy about it. And
in fact, I have my settings on my Twitter, so
(15:49):
I don't My Instagram is not enabled, so I don't
see any push notifications, so that means I do about
like of what. I don't know anything that happens on
Instagram except when I check it, which is great, so
I check it like four times a day. I have
no idea what's happening there. Like I'll respond to d
m s from random people, but it's so like not
(16:11):
it's so like in the background and you never check Facebook,
and then with Twitter, I check, but I have my
notifications in a way that I only get from people
I followed. I have a question about your kids. So
we've touched on but what do they know about your work?
So my kids know? You know, I mean, I don't
think they're particularly interested in it, but they know what
(16:34):
I do, and I hope people don't talk to them
in that same creepy way they talk to me about
my mother. But um, but you know, if they do,
that's okay. Um, they know what I do and they
have they're sort of interested in it. I you know,
I tell them I don't hide anything, but I don't
(16:54):
push them if they're not interested. I mean, your perspective
online it's quite controversial. Do you feel like are also
like that in real life? Or what are you like
in real life at a dinner party or you know,
when people see each other again? In real life, I
get along with people. I mean, I don't have you know,
I don't feel like I have combative relationships with people.
(17:15):
My problem is more just than I'm like distracted and disorganized.
I don't feel like I have you know, I have
friends who are I mean, I'm friends with Nicollespie who's
the editor of Reason magazine, who's like, he's a libertarian
and he's wrong about everything. Like, I don't feel like
I can only be friends with people who are liberal.
But I do feel like and I have friends who
(17:37):
are really conservative. But that it does, that doesn't that's
not to too, that doesn't um. You know, I don't
think I need everyone to believe what I believe. We've
talked a lot about kind of the state of America,
which is pretty bad right now. But one thing that
I think about a lot, because I have a lot
(17:58):
of friends or family members and recovery, is the isolation
of the pandemic for people who are in recovery and
not being able to go to meetings to be able
to get help. Like what what do you like? What
has that been like for you? Oh? So I do
a zoom a A meeting every night, and I am
very happy with my zoom a A and I have
you know, I zoomed with my sponsors and I talked
(18:21):
to my sponsor. I don't I mean, I think, you know,
it's hard, it's a hard time, but I think, like
if you read the Big Book, they talk about like
soldiers in World War two, staying sober with big books.
So compared to that, I don't think it's so hard.
You reference, um, some death threats. How do you choose
(18:44):
what to react to and what to take seriously when
it comes to safety? You know, because I had this
mother who was who was always getting harassed and we
had a stock or growing up. Um, I certain things
I always did have really served me. So like I
ever was, I never had my address in any like anything,
(19:05):
and UM, so that's been good. Um. And you know,
I'm just careful. I'm pretty careful, or try to be
pretty careful. We're going to head to our lightning round now.
Are going to ask you a few quick questions and
then lose going to ask the final question. Grade, what's
your relationship like today with your childhood friends? I mean,
I have a very close friend from kindergarten through fourth
(19:28):
grade who I'm still tight with, and a very close
friend from four through uh eighth grade that I'm still
tight with, and a high school friend that I'm still
tight with. So I have one from each of those
stages and they're great. I love them. What are you reading?
I am reading this whole I'm reading like about five
(19:51):
books at once. It's a whole complicated menagerie of books
about history. Is there any selet pretty that would leave
you starstruck? And me? And I would like to have
Kamala on the podcast that one. I would like that,
So that would be good. I know there are a
(20:12):
lot of people that I'm interested in that I think
are smart, that I'm you know, are impressed by lu
Do you want to join us for the final question? Yeah? Hi,
Molly Hilo, where are you? Hey? Money, I've been sober
almost eight years now, So I think you for being
(20:33):
sober and helping so many other people along their journey
of finding recovery. Because right now, like what I do
when I'm not doing other stuff is I do food
delivery and alcohol delivery is like on the Rise, you know,
not also have like a huge community over Zoom and
(20:54):
there's a couple of park meetings that I attend. But
there's a lot of people coming into the program right now,
you know, and some of them are like like just
like on the on the fence, you know, could you
give some words of wisdom to somebody that's listening right
now that's kind of like on the fence during this
pandemic Yeah, it's something I think a lot about because
we are about to have this and I think we're
(21:16):
in the middle of a very profound mental health crisis
from the pandit, you know, which is it's funny because
it's like people will politicize the pandemic and say, like,
because I I've known all these people have killed themselves
this year, and I've just seen a lot of really
terrible tragedies, and and they'll say, well, it's the lockdowns.
It's not the lockdowns, it's the whole thing. It's the
(21:37):
people dying in their cars. Right. It's just so traumatic
for all of us that we are having this mental
health crisis. And I would say, um, you know, getting
sober for me was the greatest thing I've ever done
and I'd save my life. So it's a little bit scary,
but we're here for you and we can help you.
And there are gazillion meetings on doom, and you know,
(22:02):
I think that there's no reason to just not come
to a meeting. You don't have to stop drinking. You
can just come to a meeting and see how you'd
like it. So that would be my advice for people
who are feeling like alcohol is a problem for them.
You know, I think a lot of people are going
to need to get sober after this. All right, Molly,
thank you so much for your time. Thank you, guys,
(22:23):
this is great. Thank you for having Molly is such
a unique person, and I appreciate how candid she is.
She really did not like it when I refer to
Twitter as her job. She but I appreciate that. I mean,
it's really good perspective, whether you are a CEO or
(22:44):
just a human being using Twitter as a voyer. I
think it's what she's really saying is, you know, Twitter
is another distribution platform for communicating a message, for connecting
with people, and when you think of it as a job,
you're probably not using it correctly. I I first got
on Twitter when I was doing my talk show with
Gary Va Intercheck and he insisted again on Twitter, and
(23:05):
I kind of got on there kicking and screaming many
years ago, and he taught me everything I know about
using Twitter. But he was he had very specific ideology
around it and how you were supposed to use it.
And he used to always say to me, you have
to interact with every single person who connects with you
and writes to you on Twitter, which obviously is hard
to do, right. Well, I mean, well, Sam, that's my question, right,
(23:27):
Like I use Twitter to um, but like, how much
time do you spend on Twitter on a given day?
Be honest with I mean, I have it in the
background all day long, So I am very active on
Twitter all day just kind of that's where I get
my news. And so obviously if I'm in a meeting,
I'm not checking Twitter. But as soon as I'm out
(23:47):
of a meeting, just like I would check my email,
I check my Twitter. So I do see it as
like my connection to the world. What I personally struggle
with is I'm very politically a canny need it on Twitter,
and at park Place it's been an issue a little bit.
We we did lose a client recently because of my
(24:07):
political activism on Twitter. Although I'm just not willing to
not stand up for what I believe in, even if
it does mean sometimes, you know, affecting your bottom line.
I think there's just as many people who would then
want to use us because of my political views. Yeah, no,
I agree with you. I mean you're always making those
decisions as a CEO, Like I definitely have signed letters
supporting abortion rights, and it was an issue, but you
(24:30):
do what you do. Like I don't think there's a
big separation between who I am personally and who I
am as the leader of a company. I also think
there is an upside to Twitter, Like I think I
use it less than you because I will sometimes just
like not log on for days on end. My brain
doesn't work that way, but um, but I will say
that Twitter has been massively helpful to me in building
(24:51):
a business, and I think people should talk about that
more because for me with the Riveter, I use Twitter
to let the world know about my business and to
interact at the media because the media is all over Twitter, right,
and so when you're commenting on their stories, they get
to know you. And if you're building a business outside
of a major media market, which I was in Seattle,
you are able to get their attention and kind of
(25:12):
develop these relationships. Thanks for listening to What's Her Story
with Sam and Amy. We would so appreciate if you
would leave a review wherever you get your podcasts, and
of course connect with us on social media at What's
Her Story podcast. What's Her Story with Sam and Amy
is powered by my company, The Riveter at the Riveter
(25:33):
dot c O in Sam's company, park Place Payments at
park place payments dot com. Thanks to our producer Laurel Mogulin,
our podcast associate Emma Hard, and our male perspective Lue Burns.
Hosts And Creators
Samantha Ettus
Amy Nelson
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