July 18, 2025 • 68 mins
Nick Wright is joined by Poker Hall of Famer and seven-time World Series of Poker bracelet winner Nick Schulman to react to Michael Mizrachi, aka "The Grinder," winning the World Series of Poker and break down what went into his remarkable run to win the tournament. Later, they share their thoughts on the playing styles of Phil Hellmuth, Martin Kabrhel, Will Kassouf, and others before Nick shares the story of how he found out he made the Poker Hall of Fame. The guys then dive into Manny Pacquiao's upcoming fight with Mario Barrios and share their predictions for the weekend's biggest boxing matches. #Volume
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome in to a special episode of What's Right with
the Great presented by boost Mobile. This is I think
our first ever Friday night record, and as the audience
who watches Colin Coward's podcast knows, I don't have many absolute,
adamant rules in life. But one of them is if
I'm doing a podcast at night, I'm drinking during it,
(00:25):
so I have a glass of wine. And I also
have another rule, which is and this is a new rule,
but I've decided I'm leaning into it because every once
in a while people kind of like invite themselves on
the pod. They're like, hey, you know, I could come
on the pod, And I've never really found the right
way to be like we don't do guests because they
know we have done guests because Lil Wayne was on
(00:46):
the pod like our fifth or sixth episode ever, but
he's the only guest we've ever had. We've had co
host Danny Parkins's Coasted, Bamani Jones's Coasted, but never a guest.
So new official What's Right with the Great podcast rule,
if you are not in a goat discussion in your field,
can't come on the pot, which is why I am
allowed to bring on our second official guest ever Poker
(01:10):
Hall of Famer, the Goat Poker commentator, my good friend
Nick Schulman. Nick, you and I have known each other
for a bit. We've always talked about doing some broadcasting together.
We kind of did broadcasting together the World Series, but
it was just we were all on the same broadcast,
but we never shared a microphone. We're finally doing it.
(01:31):
Good to see you, man.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Good to see you, dude. Thanks for having me, I
mean for it to be wheezy and then me obviously,
I'm very honored.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
So all right, so the for the what's right audience
that isn't as familiar with poker, I'm gonna quickly give
Nick's resume. He's gonna get embarrassed by it. I'm gonna
do that just as an introduction, and then talk about
what we're gonna do. Nick's been a professional poker player
for the better part of twenty years, best I can tell.
Weeks after turning twenty one, you hit what is to
(02:03):
this day your biggest tournament score ever? Is that right? Yeah? Yeah,
good way to start. Yeah. Won the Borgatta, one of
the Borgatta tournaments, for about two million. Since then, has
won seven World series of poker bracelets across a bunch
of different disciplines, and was this year's sole inductee at
(02:26):
least for a little bit, to the Poker Hall of
Fame and in his first year of eligibility. He is
also the voice of high stakes Poker and the voice
of a ton of poker that people watch either on
Poker Go or on stream wherever, and is also a
die hard boxing fan, and I say he won't say this.
I consider boxing expert also sneaky, probably pool and golf expert,
(02:50):
but there's not as much of marketing for that. So
we're gonna talk some boxing on the back end and
a ton of world series on the front end with
our second guest ever after what was So let's just
start right here, Nick, in the twenty years you've been,
you know, professional professional poker player for around twenty years,
(03:12):
was this the most historic world series you can remember?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Without a doubt, Without a doubt, the Grinders win kind
of I feel you'd have to go back to Stu Unger,
who I would think some of your listeners may have
heard of, even if they don't follow poker. But he's
considered probably one of the five to ten best no
(03:38):
limit tournament players ever. But he had a very historic win,
and I would say this is the biggest one since.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
So I'll go, I'm gonna, off the top of my head,
try to give the Stu Unger quick story and then
we comp it to this. Stuunger won the Main in
eighty and eighty one, I might be off by a year,
and then came back in the late nineties after you know,
was dealing with a lot of personal demons. I think
(04:08):
that's fair to say, yeah, came back and won the
Main again in to become the only right three time
main event champion, certainly the only of the anything close
to the modern era, and I think the only three
time main event champion Michael Mcsrocky. There's the poker There's
(04:30):
the main event that even people that aren't poker fans,
they know what that is. That's the one Chris Moneymaker won.
That's the one that used to be on ESPN for
hours and hours and hours. There are a bunch of
other tournaments at the World Series, and the one that
the pros look at as not only the crown jewel
but also attainable because the main event's got thousands of
(04:53):
people is the Poker Players Championship that's changed over the years.
Used to be horsed and it was eight game, nine game,
but it's the the kind, yeah, the crown jewel of it.
I think there has been twenty Poker Players Championships over
the there's been one of the last twenty years. Mike
(05:14):
won it in twenty ten, then he won it twice more,
and then he won it again this year, and so
let's just let's go there before we even get to
the main because that's what makes and if people don't know,
he then went on to win the main event, So
he won the Poker Players Championship, won the main event,
(05:35):
and the reason I'm saying to Nick that Nick was
the only Hall of Fame inductee. The Hall of Fame
made an exception and just snap inducted Mike into the
Hall of Fame after winning the main But let's go
back a few weeks if you can. When you're following.
First of all, you played the PPC, I assume, so
you were in it. Were you ever in this tournament
(05:56):
at the same table as Mike? I was? Okay, So
all right, so let's talk about this because this is
what I want to get into because there seems to
oddly be a bit of a debate over Michael Musrocky
is he actually good or and which seems like the
dumbest fucking thing ever. But it's some really like good
(06:17):
poker players like actually not that good. When you're at
the table with Grinder, what is he doing differently in
your opinion in that tournament specifically that is led to
him having such outrageous success at it.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Hey, you know, it's a great question, and it's not
the easiest one to answer, But I would say it's
kind of multifold. So the PPC is a collection of
some of the best players in the world at overall poker,
so there's no limit which kind of everybody plays. So
to speak, it's the most popular game, and the PPC
(06:56):
is a collection of a variety of games, both limit
and bet. The Grinder will get in there with some
German specialist, somebody like me, somebody like a Rasty or
receiver phil Ivy, it doesn't matter, and just for lack
(07:17):
of a better kind of hold them in contempt. He's
sitting there like he's the shit, and he is. Then
he has this habit of just always having an enormous
chip lead, and I think it's a combination of truly
achieving mastery and gauging your table image and then switching
(07:40):
it up. So he's sneaky, he's got a lot of hustle,
he acts like he's crazy, then he switches gears and
he's playing kind of type. Then he is crazy again,
and just an unbelievable ability to read people in high
pressure moments, and of course a little luck as well.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
So all right, so let's so it would seem almost
irrational that I could see how someone with his style
might have a ton of success or disproportionate success at
big field no limit tournaments because he's going to get
(08:22):
the most, you know, from an amateur. He's going to,
like you said, leverage his image. But the PPC is
the opposite of that. It is a small field compared
to the others. There's, like you said, there's not a
lot of no limit variants, so you know what I mean,
And there's it's in again. I am the definition of
an amateur player, but I do play all of the variants.
(08:44):
There's it feels like you shouldn't be able to leverage
those the things that he would be great at in
a deuced to seven triple draw game, you know, against
people like you that are just there's not gonna be
a lot of egregious mistakes made in the PPC. And
(09:05):
yet he has found himself the winner four times. And
so is there is there something specific about his style
that you think leads to that? And I guess the
follow up would be, do you like, are you going
do you think we're going to see people try to
mimic it emulate it? Be like, if that's what works,
(09:25):
why can't I do that?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, it's interesting. You know, we all all of the
like sort of I don't want to say conventional pros,
but but the ones who kind of think in a
in a similar regard about game theory or whatever. Whenever
we we watched this ship, we're all, you know, remember
when Shooter McGavin was in the woods, like practicing the
happy Gilmore swing. You know, it's a little bit like
(09:49):
there's there's definitely those moments, but he's just really doing
his thing. And one thing with the limit games and
everything within the confines of tournament, especially a mixed game tournament,
there's different strategies and approaches and and uh, you know,
he just has it I mean, I don't think we
were talking about this your last night in Vegas, but
(10:11):
it's pretty unprecedented for a sport to just induct like
to just put someone in the Hall of Fame after
an accomplishment. I don't usually you still go through the process.
But after the main and his fourth PPC that the
hall was just like, that's it, just he's in, you know,
it's pretty wild.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Well, and so that's and so again this is you know,
we have We're gonna have two different audiences watching this.
We're gonna have the audience that's never watched a single
episode of What's Right but see that you're on here
and they tune in. So for those people, there's gonna
probably be a little more recap than needed. And then
there's people who are not real diehard poker fans but
(10:52):
watch the channel. And so for those folks, I'm gonna
kind of give, you know, more a more detailed lead
up to what the other people know already happened. So
he wins the PPC after I don't like, I'm not
trying to be disrespectful or dismissive to Mike at all,
but it's fair to say like he has not been
(11:13):
you know, at the top of the poker world over
the last few years, like and.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
He's hardly even played the last few years.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Right, so he he kind of wins the PPC out
of nowhere like that, He gets the final table pretty quickly,
gets a nice chip lead, wins that and if that,
if he then you know, spent the rest of the
series at Spearment, he would have still probably made the
hall next year. You know, your dear friend and our
(11:45):
mutual friend, Scott sever would have something to say about
that and whatever. But there was when he won that
for the fourth time. If people don't know, a couple
of years ago, Brian Rast won it for the third
time and a lot of people thought that's what cemented
Rast getting in the year he did. So if he
had just won the PPC, it's like, wow, one of
(12:05):
the greatest accomplishments in poker racetory winning this thing of
fourth time. He then enters the ten thousand person main
event and wins that too, which it is not. It
is not at all prisoner of the moment or hyperbolic
to say. If you think the greatest accomplishment in the
(12:28):
history of poker is what Mike did over the last month.
You have a very strong argument for it, winning the
hardest tournament and then the most prestigious within a month.
So you had the opportunity as I did, but as
I guess the world did, of seeing his cards basically
throughout the final four tables of the main and I'm
(12:49):
at the very end. I know, you know, he won
a bunch of all ins in a row. I get
that that's a part of poker, But at what point
did you think it was realistic that he was going
to win it? And then well, I'll just ask that,
then I'll get to the other question.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I guess, I guess the final three tables when he
was still there, when he spun back from a few bigs,
it started, you know, obviously that's crazy momentum. It started
to feel like like you're watching the greatest dice rush ever.
You know, it started hitting like minute ninety of a
guy still holding the dice, where all of us as gamblers,
(13:28):
you know, this is a crazy life, and Mike has
really lived the life. So whenever we see one of
our own go on a crazy rush, we all just
kind of and that's not downplaying what happened, because of course,
a lot of skill along the way, but it was
just like everything he was touching was turning to gold,
and it felt almost spiritual. It felt like like there
(13:53):
were factors at play that were beyond you know, and
I guess the final three tables and two tables really
started to feel like he's just gonna win.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I mean, all right, so can we talk about the
spiritual and the factors at play thing for a second,
because I've never talked to you about this, because there
is kind of out of nowhere a different debate I
guess going on in the poker world, spurred by you know,
my pal, our mutual friend, uh Lucky Chewy, which is
(14:27):
who's like, hey, it's actually like I don't want to
misstate his premise, but it's like kind of the secret
he calls it kim sit, which is like, what you
believe and what you feel can actually impact the universe
around you. And I don't think he's arguing or anyone's
(14:47):
arguing that once the cards are dealt, what you feel
actually can change what card is coming on the turn,
but that you can plug in almost to the feelings
of the universe, and that is a different edge you
can get rather than just playing perfect. You're someone who
(15:09):
is as studied as anyone there is with the actual
math and the theory of poker. But you're also, as
you mentioned before, a gambler and have been a whether
it's pool or cards, or you've been a gambler for
years for your whole really life, which makes me think
you have seen enough kind of spooky things to make
(15:34):
you at least wonder how much, like is that just randomness,
or how much of it is that some people are,
whether they know it or not, kind of tapping into
something that other people can't tap into.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, it's it's really interesting. I mean, I'm a god
fearing man, but I don't believe God is sweating the
main or today you know, let's it's grinder time. What's
just like right? But I do think that if you
flow kind of like yourself and you're humble or supremely confident, whatever,
(16:14):
but if it's real and it's authentic and you and
you kind of leave it all out there in a way,
it's sort of little building blocks for good things to happen.
And I don't think we'll ever see showmanship like we
saw at this degree, or ever see a guy just
so free out there in such a crazy spot and
(16:37):
you know Pete like the lore of his partying and
late nights and stuff. They are real. Would that work
for most people? It would not, you know, nine out
of ten times, ninety nine out of one hundred times,
that would be sort of self destructive behavior. But every
once in a while John Daily type character comes along.
(16:59):
We've seen it in all sports, even Jordan, we've seen
him like partying and there there's others. Some people just
kind of flow like that. The Grinder was out there
doing his his dance moves. He's doing the spins. We're
never gonna see a pop go check check check, check, check,
small bet, pumping up the crowd, buffing. We're never gonna
(17:24):
see this again. And it just it's just to watch
a guy kind of totally know who he is, just
be himself for real. You know this it's a crazy
pressure cooker moment and this guy just he's just built
different so spiritual stuff aside, Like it just felt like
(17:45):
we're watching a guy who kind of creates his own
luck out there in a way, who's lived the life
and it's all just happening. Man. He's just hitting every
carter right.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
And if people haven't seen it if you're not a
poker fan. First of all, the final table is quick
and and and it wasn't. And this was the part
that I found so truly unbelievable. And I mean that
in a literal sense, like it was hard to believe
this was There was an instance for you, for example,
(18:15):
I don't know if it was the twenty five K
last year, some big tournament you won. You had this
huge chip lead late and you were but there were
still a lot of people left. Do you know what
I'm talking about?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Like you were able to twenty five k last year?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Okay, So in the we have seen instances where one
guy comes into the final table with all the chips
and can really leverage that chips lead because people are
trying to ladder, and it becomes it's like, okay, it
is going to take a catastrophe for this guy not
to win it. The question is who's gonna finish second.
(18:52):
Grinder came into the final table second in chips, but
thirty minutes into the final table was average in chips.
He it was not that he was able to just
run everyone over and then he went on. I mean,
it's fair to call it an absolute unbelievable sun run,
but also one that, like you said, he is. He
(19:14):
did do the pump the crowd up once as a bluff,
but he did it earlier in the tournament when he
had it and he is talking and having fun and
leaning over and if people haven't seen it, he has
literally a roulette wheel tattooed on one arm, the ace
on the other arm. I think four is on it.
If you were making a Hollywood movie and said, hey,
(19:38):
cast a stereotypical gambler, lifelong gambler, you could do a
hell of a lot worse than just what Mike is.
And the thing the other thing you said is this
is not Nick Schulman talking. Is Nick right talking? He
was out all night a lot of these nights, the
night before, partying before the biggest you know, some of
(20:01):
the biggest spots of his life, and in I don't
know where we were in the tournament, but it was
where the when the Tejen guy or whatever his name
was was, you know, said, and this is a quote,
I might stick my dick up your nose to a
different player. He he and Grinder were both drinking during play.
(20:23):
It felt very far and Scottie win it felt this
whole thing felt like a throwback, which I think was
just fun to see, at least for me. I don't
know how you interpreted it.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, it was incredible. I mean it was incredible to watch,
And you know, I'm sentimental about these guys, Like before
I played poker, I was a pool room guy. And
pool room people, you know, they just go to the
pool room every day and you see the same guys.
Spanish Eddie is over there, Texas p fucking like, it's
(21:03):
just the same dudes in there every day, and there's
a gambling subculture, and you know that shakes out how
it does. Mike has been around for twenty years. He's
the real deal. He's a real gambler through and through.
And you know, people forget to his WPT run the
(21:24):
World Poker Tour, which I think a lot of people
can relate to. And I know a lot of your
listeners aren't poker players, but that's the kind of poker
where you see a lot of random, different dynamics and
stuff that you see in the Main It's why the
Main Event is the greatest tournament in the world, because
you see top pros play with amateurs and those dynamics
(21:44):
are just so incredible. Poker is a really interesting game
where anybody can kind of win on any given day
where that's not going to happen in any other sport,
any other sport. Correct, and Mike on the WPT was
very dominant. You know, he had a le Gendari run
where you could really make an argument that he was
one of the best, if not the best no limit
(22:06):
players in the world before computers kind of entered the foray.
So for him to have this happened post, you know,
it's it's really beautiful to watch, and he deserves it.
I mean people like to say people like to define
what deserve means, but to me, a big part of
(22:27):
it at least is reps hard and just showing up.
You know, if you just show up day after day,
good shit happens. Sometimes it doesn't need to be. People
liked argument but I've worked harder, or they define what
it is. But a lot of these guys they just
stay in the gym or what have you. This is
they stay in the right way whatever it is. All
(22:47):
jokes aside. This guy's lived the life, traveled around, played
so many tournaments, and when the rush really started happening.
A lot of us got emotional because it's just like,
it's just one of those things that if you've lived
this life and you felt the downs, which all of
us have the downs in gambling or no joke, I mean,
(23:08):
I know, you know, tons of people listening gamble and
bet on sports and whatever it did. They go to
the casino and you guys know how it is. When
it's not going well, it's a crippling feeling. The sadness
sets in, the whole thing sets in, and the grinders
felt that a million times. So to see this, it
just was unbelievable.
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Speaker 1 (25:04):
Well, and so I want to there's a couple other
kind of specific things I want to talk to about
him there and talk before we get to boxing, kind
of bigger picture world series things there were there were
a few late in the tournament, a few moves he
made or bets he made that were and I you know,
(25:28):
I am kind of cribbing you know some note some
things I've heard from either you or other true experts
of the game. So I'm not trying to present myself
as the expert on this, but we're object.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
You are good though, by the way, I'm sure a
lot of people don't know you like really play, but
nick play is for real, So.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I appreciate that. The Yeah, I mean, I I think
I am a very good amateur, you know what I mean.
But that's it's just a totally different world than being
anything close to a pro. And so so what I'm
saying here is not you know, my knowledge, so to speak,
But there were a few things he did that were
(26:07):
objectively wrong in theory, and you were in the booth
I know for at least one of them, where I
don't know. I just think he bet like forty million
with queens when like the bet to him was eleven million,
or it was something. I might butcher it a bit
if that was what it was. But you and I
and I think that's one of the reasons some of
(26:29):
the again my words, not nicks, more smug and also
less accomplished prose or like this guy's no good, just lucky.
We talked more about this later, and it's do you
think there was maybe more of a method to the
madness for some of this stuff than was originally recognized.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
You know, I'm really romantic with this stuff, so I
will my instincts. That night, I got in some really
ugly fights with some of my young young homies who
are very theory based, who have not had the accomplishments
of this guy, who were off to the racist with
(27:12):
the like it's all luck. You know, they weren't getting
behind it, and for me, it really made me sick,
you know, Like, so we got in some I mean
when I say ugly, like it's it's all good. Yes,
I do think there was some methods to the madness.
I also think it's okay to objectively disagree or say
(27:34):
some of these plays he maybe weren't totally for choice,
and it can still be just a part of the
story and a part of the win. When he went
all in with Queens, we spoke about this. At first.
I didn't like it, and it's such a good hand,
you know, in poker, sometimes you have a hand that's
so good generally queens, kings or aces that the strategy
(27:58):
most professionals would try to add is to raise an
amount where maybe you get some action. This is a
top few percent hand, and we want action from worse hands, grinders,
just slamming all in, drink, pumping up the crowd, and
it's like, yo, bro, mikey babe, take it easy, like
(28:18):
you got ladies here. But then I started to think
he does have complete control over this situation outside of
a few players who were providing resistance. And we're playing great.
Leomargett's played great, Kenny is a great player, And big
respect to all of them who made it down there,
(28:39):
because you can't know how deep someone is kind of
in the zone in that moment, or they're fine, what
they're really seeing through their eyes, you know, so it's
easy to say they're bad. And these guys are good,
but it's more complicated. But I started thinking, maybe he
feels he has so much control over the table and
he's seeing things so well, Because if you really watched
(29:02):
him maneuver, I've never seen a pro kind of wear
their heart on their sleeve the way he was. Where
he's like he's like bending over, he's shuffling the chips.
He's looking at him, it's almost like he's about to fold.
Then he looks at him again, something else hits him.
He's all in. Every move he made work so well,
and I think just he was reading them so well
(29:24):
and felt he had such control. Maybe he was trying
to kind of avoid variance in some of these spots
where he made these huge all ins. But without being
too long winded about it, I do disagree with some
of the plays he made. You're not going to play
on TV for twenty hours and get them all right anyway.
But the overall performance and the art that he created
(29:49):
and just the way he went about his business, it
all just came together.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
No, And this is where I am, and this is
kind of a more big picture sports discussion, But I
know you're you're very I think adamant that poker should
be considered a sport, that it is a sport, and
that so I think that it fits in this. Once
upon there have been a few types of sports discussions that,
(30:19):
in my opinion, used to be done at objectively terribly
and wrong. And now we have over corrected. And so there,
you know, there once upon a time, like in baseball,
if you had a one point four e er but
you're a seven and nine record, it's like, well not
winning the games, like.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
He just to lose it. He just doesn't have it.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
He does doesn't have it. Like that, that was objectively wrong.
We've gotten smarter about that, and a big part of
that has been the general philosophy of process over results.
Like you know what I mean, was the process correct
that matters more than the results. And in general, I
think that is the right way to look at things.
(31:04):
Where I think sports as a whole, and this is
an example where we have overcorrected. Is there seemed to
be a subset of folks who think not process over results,
process only and fuck the results, like I like, I
don't care what the results are. And another thing that
(31:26):
comes to mind, and I thought you did a great
job with it, was when Phil helm youth was doing
the heads up duels, of which I was one of
the victims, and he just he comes back from ninety
seven million to three million against Daniel, then beats him again,
then beats him again, then he clocks Antonio in two
(31:46):
out of three matches, gets a little lucky in a
third when he just kept winning, kept winning, and obviously
has these insane results at the World Series, and some
dealers are like a kind of think he sucks and
so like there to me, there there has to be
some humility in Maybe I don't understand why what someone
(32:14):
is doing works, but if the results become so overwhelming,
I have to recognize it's not dumb luck. There is
a process to it, just a process that I'm not
fully seeing. Do you think that's fair?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, I think it's totally fair. Uh. I think a
lot of poker players kind of need to feel that
process over results, only because you can sort of lose
your mind in this game if you don't adopt some
of that, because bad runs and such can can happen
and feel overwhelming. But you know, I mean, Helm, you've
(32:53):
bring some of this on himself. Where a grinder kind
of doesn't love Phil you know, big respect the all
time legend, of course, but he parades around and says
he's the best player in the world, or maybe he's
come off of that a little recently, and he gives
us a kind of pseudo villain, which is a beautiful thing.
Most people can't play that role. You know. I would
(33:15):
love to for fun, to just talk my shit and
like get everybody to hate me, like because you know,
I'm a big fight fan, so you know, if it
doesn't matter a heel, I'm not that guy. I'm not
the heel, like I want to just be normal or whatever.
But we'll do it, and it's a part of his thing,
and I've seen him rattle a lot of great young
players where he's calm out there and they are not.
(33:38):
You know, we had a few heels at this year's
World Series.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
One of them involved one of the most iconic moments
of the series, which was you. I don't want to
say breaking character, but you Martin Cabrel, who is European
fellow that I happen to like a lot, but I've
never had to play with him, who is a very
(34:06):
good player but also intentionally as annoying as about any
player we've had in the last decade in poker. I
don't even remember what he said to you. I just
know you responded with andio, oh go ahead, you you
know what the story? No? Please please? Can you you
know what I'm talking about here? Can you kind of
(34:27):
set the table for what happened there?
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yes, So, first of all, me and Martin are cool.
Now we wapped up at the end of the World Series.
It was funny that night we went to dinner when
we went to the French place. Yeah, I popped out
on the strip and walked back to my car. This
is just kind of most of you guys won't kind
of know what I'm talking about. But it's funny because
Martin asked me something and I kind of said, I said,
(34:54):
what's that pussy? Kind of like aggret, you know, and
I was ready, like, let's you want to do something.
But that's like it's for a guy to get me
to say that in a two hundred and fifty k
by and no limit tournament, you know. And I'm I
was cool with it because I was I felt like,
you know, he kept fucking with me over and over
(35:16):
and over, but that's part of what he does. And
I can I can sit back and be okay with it.
You know, I don't want the guy to be barred
or anything like that. It's just if you're going to
keep asking me to show you my stack, keep like.
He just kept poking and prodding, and I was like,
I was trying to fight in that moment. It's crazy,
but that's what happened. But when I was walking to
(35:38):
my car, somehow here he is coming out of the
horseshoe with his little European friend who looked kind of
like gangster like. They're all sort of like a little
bit gangster like. There's an element to Cabrel where like
and as you said too, he's a great player. Where
will Casouf, who you know, also it for some of
(35:58):
you that may have watched the main Casoof is another
one who's relentless with the table talk and stuff. Much
love to kassoof he's got skills. Maybe much love is
a is you.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Know, yeah, and he's but he's not. Cabrell is a
great player.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I know he's playing really really well. So it makes
him more annoying to deal with, you know. But I
saw him. We tapped up in it and he said, Meek,
finally you'll give me number now, Yes, I said, yes,
of course, he took my number. He texted me later, hi,
which is very kind of on brand. I said, yo.
He responded with thumbs up, and that was that.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
But okay, so that's what I was gonna ask you,
because the other, the other not as viral moment, was
him coming up to you and saying I need your
number or can I have your number, and you just
flatly saying no.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Look, I'm not gonna say I fully trust this guy,
but I kind of like him, and I think I'm
starting to come around to like kind of being all
right with him. You know. It's I don't know, man.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
I meaned, yes, poker be intolerable if everyone was like that,
like him, but I think it's not great if no
one is like them, and.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Just kind of not to cut you off, but like
it's just sort of life. Like we don't we're not
going to start doing a personality contest where if we
really don't like somebody, they're out. They have to either
cheat or do something scummy and then they're gone. It's
all good. Like I'm with that, you know. I I
have a zero tolerance policy of anything that really threatens
(37:36):
the integrity of the game. But if a guy is
just super annoying, it's a slippery slope, especially when they're
a good player, it's just a slippery slope. I don't
even think it's a slippery slope.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
I think it'd be I think that I I personally
and I use this example a lot, and I I
don't know Alex fox In very well at all, so
I hope if he's heard me use it, he does
and look at this as a knock at all. It's
actually a bit of a compliment because his I it
means I find his stare the most intimidating of all
(38:08):
the stairs. But if you're if it's totally fine for
Alex Foxen to just turn to you and you know,
stare at you dead in the face for every second
of the shot clock, then it's got to be totally
fine for Cabrel to just be a maniac and talk
(38:29):
and whatever. Because to me, it is it is just
fruit from the different or I'm saying it wrong, but
it's it's the same idea, which is I'm going to
do something that's going to rattle you, that's going to
get you off your game. One is just way more
accepted than the other. But for an amateur, we are
(38:52):
really used to a maybe drunk, super annoying, you know,
guy at the table, while not used to a former
college football tight end who might be the best player
in the world just staring through you and so like this,
So they're the kasoof thing, which is if people saw
the clips he was his behavior was so bad, people
(39:15):
then pivoted to you actually can't be mad at him
because something must be wrong with him, which I think
probably is correct. Like I think he had some sort
of a breakdown and that was were you were you
okay with how much attention he got? Yet, Yes, I
(39:35):
thought it was a good show. I thought it was
like captivating to watch.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
I thought it. I thought it was too And I'll
say just quickly about Fox and and them, uh you know,
I know it's it's a tricky thing with poker players.
We don't really have sponsors, we don't really get salaries
per se. And one of the cool things about poker
(40:00):
is it really is real life out there. So a
guy like Fox and what you're seeing is a stone
killer of a guy who and I know you're not
knocking him, you're showing up, but that's a stone killer
of a guy who's an amazing poker player who within
the confines of the rules, is going to do everything
he can to win, and he's comfortable flowing like that.
(40:23):
The weird thing about him is he's like a really
sweet guy and actually not brutal to play with until
he raises the button and you're in the big blind
and you're in the nine seat and he's in the
six seat. If you're not ready for that, that's a lot,
you know, it's a lot. It's a lot. Same with Chidwick.
We've talked about some of these other guys, but end
(40:45):
of the day, those are still sort of my favorite
players to watch because I know what this life is like.
They don't pay us to go to tournaments. We peace out,
We take a piece we're comfortable with and off we go,
you know, and it's kind of just like there can
be only one winner. It's a zero some games. So
(41:06):
that that's just a little bit of a pushback against
the sort of like what's good for poker narratives, but
from an observational standpoint, or when the tournament is just
unfolding organically, yeah, if a kasoof is in there deep
rattling the cages of pros, or if Cabrel is in
there doing his thing, you know, asking me to make
(41:27):
my stack visible a hundred times in or when I
have eight pig blinds and he could see it clearly,
it's just nick, Nick, I can if you make stack visible,
I won't ask again. But if I break down and
I say, Martin, it's right here. So I just started
responding in Russian. I will, like, won't let him break me.
But obviously he did break me a little bit, and
then I got knocked out and he made the final table.
(41:49):
Just be clear, but I just won't because I get emotional,
I get flush in the face. I can get embarrassed,
I know myself. But I've also had a lot of
altercations over the years where I finally learned how to
not sort of show it or just keep it together
to breathe. But yeah, like I was okay with the
(42:11):
Kasoof coverage, but I also thought maybe to get a
little bit excessive it sometimes. And also you could argue
it's not fair for the people at his table to
just be on the feature all day. I do like
the theory that the concept in theory of randomizing the
future tables because it is a little bit of a disadvantage.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
It's hot, the lights whatever, but and people get to
see how you if you're you know what I mean.
I mean that's yeah, so that I totally.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Get that story long I was okay with it.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, before we move on to uh to boxing, just
quick hit or ones real quick general thoughts on and
if you want to, feel free to say pass on
any of this. By the way, I leave one chip
behind in the night tank for a paye jump.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
You know. I love the player that committed that infraction
a lot, and he has a serious, like moral kind
of backbone and stuff, and also said to players at
the table, put me on the clock whenever you're ready.
I think it speaks more to the flaw in the
current structure of tournaments than a player doing that. However,
(43:24):
I don't like it. I think it's pretty absurd that
it's even a part of tournaments. And we need shot clocks,
you know, it's just time for pre flop shot clocks
and in pretty much anything. And you know, they take
enough break and make enough money to have an x
executable and well working clock for any field size.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
I think it's time, all right, then last, I'm gonna
make you before we do boxing, talk about yourself just
for a second. Uh, can you just take me through
finding out you were the one that made the whole
this year and what that meant to you.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah. I got a text from from Jack Effel, who
kind of runs the World Series or I'm not sure
what his exact role is, but you know he's a
big way type guy something.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yeah, he said, keep keep the date ready, please only
tell your immediate friends and family, and I got really emotional.
It meant a lot to me. There's definitely a part
of me that knows the reason I got in sort
of first ballot or my first year of eligibility is
(44:41):
my kind of presence in poker as commentating the main
and high stakes poker and connecting with some of the
fans and and just being kind of or putting a
lot of them just straight to sleep. Or this guy
makes me want to kill myself, or the monotone. But
most of them were we're good, and you know, so
(45:03):
I felt a little bit. There's other players that are
extremely deserving. You know, I think Ted Forrest should have
gotten in a while ago. Seevert is an all time
great he'll get in, but uh, it was really emotional
for me, and I just I reflected on my whole life. Man.
It's you know, this poker life is no joke. You know,
(45:23):
I wouldn't want to do anything else, and I'm very
grateful for it, but it takes a piece of you
you don't get back. And I've definitely gotten more centered
as a person. But that that thing made me think
about some of my darkest times in the game, or
when the game got the best of me, or some
of the late nights, and honestly, some of the huge
(45:45):
losses that I've taken and times I've just busted myself
or crazy stuff along the way. But I felt end
of the day, I deserved it in the sense that
I know what I've put into the game, so I
it mental heart to me and to see my parents
and stuff like that, and talk to people I haven't
spoken to in a while who were there for me early,
(46:07):
it was it was really emotional for me.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Well, that's awesome. I appreciate you sharing it. It's been
really a thrill for me that you and I have
become friends because I'm such like a poker junkie, like
i'd listened to you do commentary for years before we
ever met, and I'd obviously always heard you know great
things about you as a guy. But then once we
(46:31):
actually got to know each other, it was not only
did I want us to be able to work together,
but I also wanted there to be more Nick Schulman
broadcasting in the world, and not just about poker. And
so this is me kind of going a bit off script.
This is a message that applies to ninety nine percent
(46:51):
of you listening right now, because that's how many of
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(47:12):
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offer thirty five dollars device setup female apply requires credit qualification,
(47:33):
ID verification and activation on sixty dollars plan taxes extra
five G speeds not available in all areas. While Nick
refuses to share his boxing bets with me, I figure
the best and by that's that's not a selfish things. No, No,
(47:54):
I just know the I think the last time, I
think it was a random you have c card. I
texted a group chat we're on about about something like
who I was at a casino and I didn't I
hadn't followed it at all. I'm like, who's you know,
who's the pick? And I think the response was I'm
not sharing my picks right now. I appreciate your respect,
my family's privacy in this time because I think you
(48:16):
had just lost and lost one. But that's not the point.
It was mostly joking. The point is the the level
of knowledge and uh passion for boxing in particular is,
in my opinion, neck and neck with where you're at
in poker. People just don't know it because you weren't
a boxer. You're a poker player. So there's a couple
(48:37):
really interesting fights this week, and there's a paqial fight
and there's the Usick fight in London. I think the
Packia fight you're gonna be, you know, right at in Vegas,
I assume, So let's start there and then go to
some other ones. I have not followed this as closely
as you. I'm sure I know there was some line
movement in the Pacquial fight, so give us.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yeah, okay, yeah, my glasses on for the boxing and
let's just be let's just be clear about something like
I'm getting Merry Christmas cards from bookies, like I believe
the generational run is coming in the boxing in MMA.
I'm a huge whil also die hard. I watch every interview,
(49:21):
I watch every fight like I want to chop it
up about boxing and really talk about these fights. But
this is not I'm not saying I'm sharp. I'm not
saying follow me. TVK was selling me before I came
on that I never saw a dog I didn't like.
That's a little bit true that sometimes they dangle a
dog in front of me and I just can't take it.
(49:41):
We've had our ups and downs, perhaps more downs, although
I've caught heat lately in the fight game, and it's
gonna happen. So you could either hop on the train now,
or keep doubting me. You want to go the other way.
We could talk, we could chop lines. I'm not short
on confidence, but I'm short on results.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Okay, all right, so I will all look at the
lines of all these fights courtesy of our friends DraftKings,
and we'll get to that in a minute. I also
want to clarify, for the non you know, diehard gambling
or Vegas audience, whale means big losing better. So when
(50:20):
Nick just said I'm a UFC whale, he wasn't saying
like I crush UFC better, right.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
He means you don't, at least in my definition, that's right. Yeah,
it means what you said.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Yes, yeah, you oddly don't want to be a whale.
It sounds like something you'd want to be, you don't want.
I guess it's nice to be able to have the
ability to be a whale because it means you have
the money, but you don't really want to be a whale.
Because okay, So with all that said, Nick's real concern is,
and I'm just gonna tell the audience he is not
a tout and does not want to be anyone to
think he's being a tout. What he is is giving
(50:54):
you know his boxing analysis that like you said, the
heater of a lifetime is coming and they're gonna build
us at you outside the arena. It's gonna happen. We
know it. Let's start with Pacquiao Burrios.
Speaker 4 (51:05):
Okay, so so pak yaw I if I if I,
if I may I got plus four ten? Ish A
while I was walking through the Aria, I was in
the sports book. You don't like Manny pak yao plus
four ten against Mario Barrios?
Speaker 2 (51:24):
Is he forty six? Yes? Is he coming back just
for the money? We don't know. You know, I believe
in him. I've now watched every interview and stuff, and
I'm starting to believe vintage pac Man might show up.
And by the way, the line has moved to roughly
to forty. We have to be happy crushing the closing line.
(51:46):
One specialty of mine is in the MMA, has beat
the line and just still lose that one. I'm an
amazing at and also I could get bad lines and
also still lose. It's a very interesting fight. You know,
when you think in boxing of older fighters, you think
of George Foreman and Bernard Hopkins, who both did magical
(52:08):
things in their mid to late forties. We've never really
seen a little guy who relied on blistering speed and
combinations and footwork come back in their mid forties and
make it happen. But you know, Paco's Filipino. And one
thing I know about these Filipino guys from the pool
(52:30):
room man not to generalize a whole nation, but they
just have a lot of hustle. This guy's razor sharp.
He plays a little poker himself. By the way, he's
a good chess player. He's actually a great pool player.
I mean, every Filipino guy kind of is. But I
believe he might have game planned. He might have known
something about Barrios's sty is a little flat footed. Maybe he
(52:53):
can get in and out and have a vintage night
and it would be a pretty special night a la
the grinder, you know, like yeah, so yeah, so you so.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
You're you're rooting for Pacquiao because you bet him. Also,
how much of that line movement was your bet by itself?
Possibly some of it.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
Not too much, don't get me wrong. We have a position,
but nothing crazy like.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
But you think he has a more than a more
than a puncher chance. You think he has a real chance,
and for people.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
A chancy stone out classism boxes his ears off and
makes it look easy. I also think it could be
a tragic night where it looks like he came back
for the money and he's just stuck in the mud
and gets hurt bad. You know that that's possible.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
And is there anything for the audience that don't seen Burrios?
Like what type of fighter he is? Like what you
expect from him?
Speaker 2 (53:44):
He has a stiff jab, he's he's not the quickest guy,
but he has heavy hands and he's been in there
with a lot of good guys. He's won most of
his fights. He's a real champion through and through. And
you know he's a kind of He's a Mexican from
San Antonio and a lot of people talk about these
Mexicans like like they're just willing to die in there
(54:07):
and this and that, but he really seems like he
is kind of you know, tons of heart, big nuts,
like great fighter, but vintage pac Man would wash him.
Everybody knows it, no disrespect. You know, could be wrong,
but we're talking about an eight division world champion, all
time great who you know, vintage pack was one of
(54:30):
the greatest fighters of all time. So if that guy
shows up, it could be a quick night. People are
saying like people are acting like they're rolling your grandfather
out to get out with the cane. This is manny
pac yeow man. He's been in the gym. This is
what I start doing. And we know where they.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
Like all the dogs. All right, let's talk a little
of the under undercards and we'll get to u sik Uh.
I'll hand up on me on this one. I I
know nothing about this fight. Fondora sees Zu. I don't
even know how to say the name Tim.
Speaker 2 (55:04):
Zoo, son of zoo Uh. The first fight was interesting.
Fondora won a decision, but but Zoo got a gash
on his forehead that like he looked like one of
the zombies from The Walking Dead. After round two. It's
actually crazy Fondora didn't get him out of there. Tim
(55:25):
is a small favorite this one. He he suffered a
brutal stoppage loss to this Eastern European whose name is brutal.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
But it was a bad stoppage.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
He suffered a bad stoppage and Fandora also basically got
starched out cold by Brian Mendoz in the center of
the ring with just a beautiful left hook. They've both
bounced back. I like Zoo. I think Zoo is gonna
just find a way to me. Fondora as great as
he is. They call him the Towering Inferno. They don't
weigh that much, but he's like six', six like it's
(55:58):
kind of freaky to. Me he just sort of doesn't
have a second, gear but he's great WHERE i Feel
tim has just that second. GEAR i think he's gonna
bite down on the mouthpiece and get it. Done AND
i really hope he. Does nick if if you catch my?
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Drift all, Right so all, RIGHT i like. That all,
Right so there's there's A so what's the pitbull? Fierro
we want to?
Speaker 2 (56:28):
Talk, oh we don't, know said medical. Emergency So pipple
is going to be a massive, favorite and you know
he's a cool. Fighter so oh so that, one that
one's just. Gone oh did that just happen yeah a
little while?
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Ago oh, okay oh, Yeah Omar, Salcito, yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
He was on the, undercard and you, Know pipple's probably
a twenty to one favorite or. Something gun Tohead i'd lay,
it BUT i don't, REALLY i don't like those that.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
Much, Well i'm hold, On i'm telling you right now, Again,
yeah go?
Speaker 2 (57:01):
On what is?
Speaker 1 (57:02):
YEAH i mean AT dk right, now you can Get.
Cruise wait is that who he's? Fighting hold, on DO
i have it? Wrong You Omar salcedo Against Isaac. Cruz
this is where we're Talking. Cruise oh, okay, sorry He's
Shock cruz minus eleven, hundred so eleven to.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
ONE i, mean you know that doesn't add.
Speaker 1 (57:23):
That to your other.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
Ones one THING i believe in the fight game in
general is that all these young guys are all. Evolving
they can evolve quicker between, fights in my, opinion than
the old, days because there's just such an influx of
content and and things to, watch you, know so on
and so. Forth you see him poker. Too sometimes kid
will just reinvent himself out of. Nowhere we're back in the,
(57:45):
day you. Know you know What i'm, Saying like the
world sort of moves. Faster so these huge. Favorites i'm
a little bit, skittish But piples can. Win he's probably
gonna stop. HIM i, mean But i'm not betting that.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
Fight, okay all, right let's go To. London You sick against.
Again is it du Boy Dubois Dubois you sick is
at least ON dk three to one Favorite dubois right
around plus two point. Fifty what's your thoughts on? That
so it feels like they kind of got that line
(58:20):
right like they often. Do dubois has really reinvented himself
masterful stoppage Of Anthony joshua heavy.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
Hands this is a rematch where there was a little
bit of. Controversy ousik got hit kind of on the belt.
Line from one, angle it looked. Low from the other
it looked, legal and he went down and he was
kind of acting like he was really hurt and got
a long count after it was ruled a low. Blow,
(58:52):
PERSONALLY i feel he was okay and was just kind
of doing weird. Gamesmanship AND i don't really. Know i've
watched it multiple. Times my general rule is keep betting
on generational talent that's, undefeated so gun to. HEAD i
would Bet usik AND i probably will be taking some
lazy price last minute and pacing around the living. Room
(59:16):
BUT i don't that's.
Speaker 1 (59:17):
It that that that's or if that fights In london
and you're In, vegas that's an early, afternoon sweat before
after it's a great.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
Day we got usic afternoon and then we're then we're
pulling up to The Grand Garden arena baby for to
watch pack to seventy two year old pack, out get out.
There what a.
Speaker 1 (59:37):
Saturday it makes me Wish i'd stayed In vegas for another.
Speaker 2 (59:40):
COMPANY i Think holloway is on TOMORROW, mma so we
might have the phone going and it's all.
Speaker 1 (59:45):
Happening do you have anything you want to say ABOUT
i know we've been talking about.
Speaker 2 (59:49):
The i've eighty six myself from even allowing my mind
to generate opinions ON. Mma But i'll watch AND i
might get wrapped, in BUT i just.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
All, right one more boxing question for we. Go but
to be, CLEAR i.
Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Like poorier, though, okay never.
Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Mind so you like So? Pacio who did you say
in the in The Tim zoo.
Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Fight he's Fighting. FONDORRA i, like, No, Zoo.
Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
That's WHAT i thought. That so you So pacio And
zoo you?
Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Like and AGAIN i Like pacy at that, PRICE i got, Yeah,
NO i still could see youth prevailing in the whole.
Thing but that plus four hundred was we knew that
wasn't gonna, last, right so you got it at a sharp.
Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Price because right, now for our our audience has to
be even more confident than you, were because right now
it's you got it basically. Double it's right, now right
around plus two ten burrios minus two seventy. Five, Listen
i'm not a professional. Gambler you're a professional poke player and.
Gambler some would say you have the perfect hedge opportunity
(01:00:52):
at minus two seventy. FIVE i, say IF i wanted
to hedge, BETS i would be a stockbroker instead of
WHAT i. Am i'm out here to, gamble BUT i
you know this IS i have a regular income. Stream
BUT i got you to.
Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Too, Yeah i'm more of the bet more. TYPE i
don't like the, hedging you. KNOW i have a friend
who's a master of the hedging and the, arbitraging AND
i get, it but it's such a grind And i'm
just not organized enough to even. Execute i'm a one and.
DONE i see a LINE i like AND i fire all.
Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Right couple minutes before we go on two months from
now In vegas At Raiders. STADIUM i mean it's gonna
like a massive place for a boxing, Event Canelo.
Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Crawford, YEAH i, MEAN i keep going back and forth
on this. One on the one, hand you cannot See
bud in the ring with somewhat prime TRIPLE G Dimitri,
beval despite the fact That canela, lost Even, coviallev even
(01:01:56):
alcoholic old Covial ev was still you, know sick one.
Big you can't See budd in there with those. Guys
bud got rocked By Uriorkis, gamboa who's you, know my
wife is bigger than. HIM i mean really, like but
you do see guys move up and wait and fill.
Out canelo has looked not as good. Lately his last.
(01:02:21):
PERFORMANCE i actually rewatched, it even though it's the most
boring fight of all time Against william's. SKULL i feel
he sort of just didn't, try like he knew he'd
get the, decision and just this guy was running around the,
ring And canello is just kind of lead hand, down
just sort of people are saying he can't cut the
ring off. Anymore i'm not sure about all. That he
(01:02:43):
was just cashing checks and doing just. Enough maybe If
bud stands in the pocket with him in, TRADES i
could See bud getting hurt you, know he didn't look
amazing at one point fifty four Against, madrimov but he
did get the job. Done and that guy's. QUALITY i
don't know IF i should say. IT i feel LIKE
i shouldn't say, this But i'm just gonna say. It
(01:03:06):
Phil ivey Likes. Bud and it isn't like he's just
riding With bud because you, know they're cut from the same,
cloth or you know What i'm. Saying he. Doesn't he'll
bet whoever he. Likes he's not just rocking With bud
out of. Love he is a ruthless sports better and
his position is that we have the goat on our.
(01:03:26):
Hands he Believes bud is perhaps just the goat and
that kind of hit. Me could we always talk about
the fights for, real and he's razor like you, know
but also he could sail to and you, know doesn't
get them all, right don't get me, Wrong but he, said,
yeah he's like you, know and he knows a lot
(01:03:47):
of people in. BOXING a lot of his family are
inboxing gyms or you, know for, real like like he's
just juiced in with a lot of guys his teams and.
Stuff phil co walk into any boxing gym In america
and get immediate love from. People he just, knows you.
Know he, said his people believe That Terrence crawford is you,
(01:04:10):
know we're not going to put him Above ali or,
whatever but going to go down as one of the
five greatest fighters of all. Time and he's that. Good
SO i Was canelo all day due to, side due
to you just cannot break the rules like this and
move up two weight classes from a weight class that's
already too big for you kind. OF i, mean he's
(01:04:30):
sort of matureman a fifty. Four but After ivy said
that to, me Apologies, phil if you, KNOW i hope
he doesn't see, this OR i would never give his plays.
Away but this One i'm just too excited. About after
he said that to, Me NOW i might just rock
With bud BECAUSE i love him, anyway you. Know but
(01:04:51):
Against Errol spence was the biggest sports BET i ever.
HAD i Had Terrence. CRAWFORD i just believed he's just too,
good you, know the biggest sports bet you ever? Had, Yes, Wow,
yes yes it. Was it wasn't actually THAT I i
fire bigger in the. Poker you, know WHEN i say,
that you'll be. Surprised don't get. Out it was a real.
(01:05:13):
Number it wasn't, like here's the. Deal you're your mind
is warped by.
Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
What a big bed is and what isn't by the
fact that you're hanging out With ivy and with guys
who are, you who are just, firing and also guys
not Just, ivy but guys who might put one.
Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Time ivy gave me ten percent of them in a crops.
Roll he, said just take ten percent for. Luck NICK i,
said all, right. Cool he came up to me, later
told HIM i owed him eighty five. Thousand been a
long time, ago, man you know WHAT i. MEAN i.
DID i did not see that one. COMING i told Him,
Phil i'm gonna need a minute on a on that.
(01:05:55):
One that's true.
Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Story, no that's.
Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Real, yeah you didn't he should.
Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Get percent of him and you didn't stay and sweat. It.
Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
No we were in a tournament and it was all
love and he would never ever give give a wrong.
Number you know.
Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
It Oh, NO i didn't mean sweat it like, no,
NO i, know But i'm saying.
Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
No. No it was just one of those. Things we
were hanging out and he put me on for ten
and you know at eighty five times. Ten IT'S i,
mean it was a big. LOSS i didn't see all.
Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
THAT i actually had heard. YOU i think you told
that story once, before SO i didn't remember the. NUMBER
i knew that. Happened but just BECAUSE i the in
case he is a little mad at you giving out his,
pick you have to tell one other story that makes
him sound so incredibly, cool which is when you got
(01:06:43):
the massage and didn't HAVE i.
Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Was GETTING i was getting a massage in a poker.
Tournament you, KNOW i had no cash on. Me he
was at the table AND i, Said, phil CAN i
CAN i borrow a little bit to pay for the?
Massage he, SAID i got.
Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
It.
Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Nick he reached in his pocket gave her a FIVE
K belaggio. Chip he, said here you, go, honey we're
at Five nick No russ five so good, legend all time.
Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
Legend he tips them as suits five. Thousand you then
have to. Pay, yeah oh, man all, right couldn't have ended.
Better you. Need here's the. Thing it's He's Nick. Shulman
he's A Poker hall Of, famer just one of seventh.
Brace so you can hear him on high stakes. Poker
you can hear him The World series Of poker On
(01:07:33):
Poker Go. Uh you hopefully can hear him do more
boxing stuff on this podcast and in other places as.
Well soon You the only THING i need from, You
nick is for you to sleep on whether or not
one of the social media breakout clips can be Phil
ivy Thinks Terence crawford can be the goat Because i'm
(01:07:54):
telling you that will do well on the. Internets you
don't have to decide, now because you.
Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
Gotta i'll, WELL i gotta ask. Him he's so. Sneaky
he's probably trying to Bet. Crawford you, KNOW i really
fucked up, here but it's all. Good it is what it.
Is he KNOWS i make. Mistakes i'm, emotional but this
guy is moving. Different he's not worried about no social
media eclips What i'm, Saying SO i think probably we
got to lay off. That but love, me, Man thank
you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
On, dude this Was you're the. Best go enjoy time
with your. Daughter i'm sure is now home from. School.
Uh And i'll see you. Back i'm back In vegas
in a couple of, weeks So i'll see.
Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
You i'll see you. Later
Welcome in to a special episode of What's Right with
the Great presented by boost Mobile. This is I think
our first ever Friday night record, and as the audience
who watches Colin Coward's podcast knows, I don't have many absolute,
adamant rules in life. But one of them is if
I'm doing a podcast at night, I'm drinking during it,
(00:25):
so I have a glass of wine. And I also
have another rule, which is and this is a new rule,
but I've decided I'm leaning into it because every once
in a while people kind of like invite themselves on
the pod. They're like, hey, you know, I could come
on the pod, And I've never really found the right
way to be like we don't do guests because they
know we have done guests because Lil Wayne was on
(00:46):
the pod like our fifth or sixth episode ever, but
he's the only guest we've ever had. We've had co
host Danny Parkins's Coasted, Bamani Jones's Coasted, but never a guest.
So new official What's Right with the Great podcast rule,
if you are not in a goat discussion in your field,
can't come on the pot, which is why I am
allowed to bring on our second official guest ever Poker
(01:10):
Hall of Famer, the Goat Poker commentator, my good friend
Nick Schulman. Nick, you and I have known each other
for a bit. We've always talked about doing some broadcasting together.
We kind of did broadcasting together the World Series, but
it was just we were all on the same broadcast,
but we never shared a microphone. We're finally doing it.
(01:31):
Good to see you, man.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Good to see you, dude. Thanks for having me, I
mean for it to be wheezy and then me obviously,
I'm very honored.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
So all right, so the for the what's right audience
that isn't as familiar with poker, I'm gonna quickly give
Nick's resume. He's gonna get embarrassed by it. I'm gonna
do that just as an introduction, and then talk about
what we're gonna do. Nick's been a professional poker player
for the better part of twenty years, best I can tell.
Weeks after turning twenty one, you hit what is to
(02:03):
this day your biggest tournament score ever? Is that right? Yeah? Yeah,
good way to start. Yeah. Won the Borgatta, one of
the Borgatta tournaments, for about two million. Since then, has
won seven World series of poker bracelets across a bunch
of different disciplines, and was this year's sole inductee at
(02:26):
least for a little bit, to the Poker Hall of
Fame and in his first year of eligibility. He is
also the voice of high stakes Poker and the voice
of a ton of poker that people watch either on
Poker Go or on stream wherever, and is also a
die hard boxing fan, and I say he won't say this.
I consider boxing expert also sneaky, probably pool and golf expert,
(02:50):
but there's not as much of marketing for that. So
we're gonna talk some boxing on the back end and
a ton of world series on the front end with
our second guest ever after what was So let's just
start right here, Nick, in the twenty years you've been,
you know, professional professional poker player for around twenty years,
(03:12):
was this the most historic world series you can remember?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Without a doubt, Without a doubt, the Grinders win kind
of I feel you'd have to go back to Stu Unger,
who I would think some of your listeners may have
heard of, even if they don't follow poker. But he's
considered probably one of the five to ten best no
(03:38):
limit tournament players ever. But he had a very historic win,
and I would say this is the biggest one since.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
So I'll go, I'm gonna, off the top of my head,
try to give the Stu Unger quick story and then
we comp it to this. Stuunger won the Main in
eighty and eighty one, I might be off by a year,
and then came back in the late nineties after you know,
was dealing with a lot of personal demons. I think
(04:08):
that's fair to say, yeah, came back and won the
Main again in to become the only right three time
main event champion, certainly the only of the anything close
to the modern era, and I think the only three
time main event champion Michael Mcsrocky. There's the poker There's
(04:30):
the main event that even people that aren't poker fans,
they know what that is. That's the one Chris Moneymaker won.
That's the one that used to be on ESPN for
hours and hours and hours. There are a bunch of
other tournaments at the World Series, and the one that
the pros look at as not only the crown jewel
but also attainable because the main event's got thousands of
(04:53):
people is the Poker Players Championship that's changed over the years.
Used to be horsed and it was eight game, nine game,
but it's the the kind, yeah, the crown jewel of it.
I think there has been twenty Poker Players Championships over
the there's been one of the last twenty years. Mike
(05:14):
won it in twenty ten, then he won it twice more,
and then he won it again this year, and so
let's just let's go there before we even get to
the main because that's what makes and if people don't know,
he then went on to win the main event, So
he won the Poker Players Championship, won the main event,
(05:35):
and the reason I'm saying to Nick that Nick was
the only Hall of Fame inductee. The Hall of Fame
made an exception and just snap inducted Mike into the
Hall of Fame after winning the main But let's go
back a few weeks if you can. When you're following.
First of all, you played the PPC, I assume, so
you were in it. Were you ever in this tournament
(05:56):
at the same table as Mike? I was? Okay, So
all right, so let's talk about this because this is
what I want to get into because there seems to
oddly be a bit of a debate over Michael Musrocky
is he actually good or and which seems like the
dumbest fucking thing ever. But it's some really like good
(06:17):
poker players like actually not that good. When you're at
the table with Grinder, what is he doing differently in
your opinion in that tournament specifically that is led to
him having such outrageous success at it.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Hey, you know, it's a great question, and it's not
the easiest one to answer, But I would say it's
kind of multifold. So the PPC is a collection of
some of the best players in the world at overall poker,
so there's no limit which kind of everybody plays. So
to speak, it's the most popular game, and the PPC
(06:56):
is a collection of a variety of games, both limit
and bet. The Grinder will get in there with some
German specialist, somebody like me, somebody like a Rasty or
receiver phil Ivy, it doesn't matter, and just for lack
(07:17):
of a better kind of hold them in contempt. He's
sitting there like he's the shit, and he is. Then
he has this habit of just always having an enormous
chip lead, and I think it's a combination of truly
achieving mastery and gauging your table image and then switching
(07:40):
it up. So he's sneaky, he's got a lot of hustle,
he acts like he's crazy, then he switches gears and
he's playing kind of type. Then he is crazy again,
and just an unbelievable ability to read people in high
pressure moments, and of course a little luck as well.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
So all right, so let's so it would seem almost
irrational that I could see how someone with his style
might have a ton of success or disproportionate success at
big field no limit tournaments because he's going to get
(08:22):
the most, you know, from an amateur. He's going to,
like you said, leverage his image. But the PPC is
the opposite of that. It is a small field compared
to the others. There's, like you said, there's not a
lot of no limit variants, so you know what I mean,
And there's it's in again. I am the definition of
an amateur player, but I do play all of the variants.
(08:44):
There's it feels like you shouldn't be able to leverage
those the things that he would be great at in
a deuced to seven triple draw game, you know, against
people like you that are just there's not gonna be
a lot of egregious mistakes made in the PPC. And
(09:05):
yet he has found himself the winner four times. And
so is there is there something specific about his style
that you think leads to that? And I guess the
follow up would be, do you like, are you going
do you think we're going to see people try to
mimic it emulate it? Be like, if that's what works,
(09:25):
why can't I do that?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, it's interesting. You know, we all all of the
like sort of I don't want to say conventional pros,
but but the ones who kind of think in a
in a similar regard about game theory or whatever. Whenever
we we watched this ship, we're all, you know, remember
when Shooter McGavin was in the woods, like practicing the
happy Gilmore swing. You know, it's a little bit like
(09:49):
there's there's definitely those moments, but he's just really doing
his thing. And one thing with the limit games and
everything within the confines of tournament, especially a mixed game tournament,
there's different strategies and approaches and and uh, you know,
he just has it I mean, I don't think we
were talking about this your last night in Vegas, but
(10:11):
it's pretty unprecedented for a sport to just induct like
to just put someone in the Hall of Fame after
an accomplishment. I don't usually you still go through the process.
But after the main and his fourth PPC that the
hall was just like, that's it, just he's in, you know,
it's pretty wild.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Well, and so that's and so again this is you know,
we have We're gonna have two different audiences watching this.
We're gonna have the audience that's never watched a single
episode of What's Right but see that you're on here
and they tune in. So for those people, there's gonna
probably be a little more recap than needed. And then
there's people who are not real diehard poker fans but
(10:52):
watch the channel. And so for those folks, I'm gonna
kind of give, you know, more a more detailed lead
up to what the other people know already happened. So
he wins the PPC after I don't like, I'm not
trying to be disrespectful or dismissive to Mike at all,
but it's fair to say like he has not been
(11:13):
you know, at the top of the poker world over
the last few years, like and.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
He's hardly even played the last few years.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Right, so he he kind of wins the PPC out
of nowhere like that, He gets the final table pretty quickly,
gets a nice chip lead, wins that and if that,
if he then you know, spent the rest of the
series at Spearment, he would have still probably made the
hall next year. You know, your dear friend and our
(11:45):
mutual friend, Scott sever would have something to say about
that and whatever. But there was when he won that
for the fourth time. If people don't know, a couple
of years ago, Brian Rast won it for the third
time and a lot of people thought that's what cemented
Rast getting in the year he did. So if he
had just won the PPC, it's like, wow, one of
(12:05):
the greatest accomplishments in poker racetory winning this thing of
fourth time. He then enters the ten thousand person main
event and wins that too, which it is not. It
is not at all prisoner of the moment or hyperbolic
to say. If you think the greatest accomplishment in the
(12:28):
history of poker is what Mike did over the last month.
You have a very strong argument for it, winning the
hardest tournament and then the most prestigious within a month.
So you had the opportunity as I did, but as
I guess the world did, of seeing his cards basically
throughout the final four tables of the main and I'm
(12:49):
at the very end. I know, you know, he won
a bunch of all ins in a row. I get
that that's a part of poker, But at what point
did you think it was realistic that he was going
to win it? And then well, I'll just ask that,
then I'll get to the other question.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I guess, I guess the final three tables when he
was still there, when he spun back from a few bigs,
it started, you know, obviously that's crazy momentum. It started
to feel like like you're watching the greatest dice rush ever.
You know, it started hitting like minute ninety of a
guy still holding the dice, where all of us as gamblers,
(13:28):
you know, this is a crazy life, and Mike has
really lived the life. So whenever we see one of
our own go on a crazy rush, we all just
kind of and that's not downplaying what happened, because of course,
a lot of skill along the way, but it was
just like everything he was touching was turning to gold,
and it felt almost spiritual. It felt like like there
(13:53):
were factors at play that were beyond you know, and
I guess the final three tables and two tables really
started to feel like he's just gonna win.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I mean, all right, so can we talk about the
spiritual and the factors at play thing for a second,
because I've never talked to you about this, because there
is kind of out of nowhere a different debate I
guess going on in the poker world, spurred by you know,
my pal, our mutual friend, uh Lucky Chewy, which is
(14:27):
who's like, hey, it's actually like I don't want to
misstate his premise, but it's like kind of the secret
he calls it kim sit, which is like, what you
believe and what you feel can actually impact the universe
around you. And I don't think he's arguing or anyone's
(14:47):
arguing that once the cards are dealt, what you feel
actually can change what card is coming on the turn,
but that you can plug in almost to the feelings
of the universe, and that is a different edge you
can get rather than just playing perfect. You're someone who
(15:09):
is as studied as anyone there is with the actual
math and the theory of poker. But you're also, as
you mentioned before, a gambler and have been a whether
it's pool or cards, or you've been a gambler for
years for your whole really life, which makes me think
you have seen enough kind of spooky things to make
(15:34):
you at least wonder how much, like is that just randomness,
or how much of it is that some people are,
whether they know it or not, kind of tapping into
something that other people can't tap into.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, it's it's really interesting. I mean, I'm a god
fearing man, but I don't believe God is sweating the
main or today you know, let's it's grinder time. What's
just like right? But I do think that if you
flow kind of like yourself and you're humble or supremely confident, whatever,
(16:14):
but if it's real and it's authentic and you and
you kind of leave it all out there in a way,
it's sort of little building blocks for good things to happen.
And I don't think we'll ever see showmanship like we
saw at this degree, or ever see a guy just
so free out there in such a crazy spot and
(16:37):
you know Pete like the lore of his partying and
late nights and stuff. They are real. Would that work
for most people? It would not, you know, nine out
of ten times, ninety nine out of one hundred times,
that would be sort of self destructive behavior. But every
once in a while John Daily type character comes along.
(16:59):
We've seen it in all sports, even Jordan, we've seen
him like partying and there there's others. Some people just
kind of flow like that. The Grinder was out there
doing his his dance moves. He's doing the spins. We're
never gonna see a pop go check check check, check, check,
small bet, pumping up the crowd, buffing. We're never gonna
(17:24):
see this again. And it just it's just to watch
a guy kind of totally know who he is, just
be himself for real. You know this it's a crazy
pressure cooker moment and this guy just he's just built
different so spiritual stuff aside, Like it just felt like
(17:45):
we're watching a guy who kind of creates his own
luck out there in a way, who's lived the life
and it's all just happening. Man. He's just hitting every
carter right.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
And if people haven't seen it if you're not a
poker fan. First of all, the final table is quick
and and and it wasn't. And this was the part
that I found so truly unbelievable. And I mean that
in a literal sense, like it was hard to believe
this was There was an instance for you, for example,
(18:15):
I don't know if it was the twenty five K
last year, some big tournament you won. You had this
huge chip lead late and you were but there were
still a lot of people left. Do you know what
I'm talking about?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Like you were able to twenty five k last year?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Okay, So in the we have seen instances where one
guy comes into the final table with all the chips
and can really leverage that chips lead because people are
trying to ladder, and it becomes it's like, okay, it
is going to take a catastrophe for this guy not
to win it. The question is who's gonna finish second.
(18:52):
Grinder came into the final table second in chips, but
thirty minutes into the final table was average in chips.
He it was not that he was able to just
run everyone over and then he went on. I mean,
it's fair to call it an absolute unbelievable sun run,
but also one that, like you said, he is. He
(19:14):
did do the pump the crowd up once as a bluff,
but he did it earlier in the tournament when he
had it and he is talking and having fun and
leaning over and if people haven't seen it, he has
literally a roulette wheel tattooed on one arm, the ace
on the other arm. I think four is on it.
If you were making a Hollywood movie and said, hey,
(19:38):
cast a stereotypical gambler, lifelong gambler, you could do a
hell of a lot worse than just what Mike is.
And the thing the other thing you said is this
is not Nick Schulman talking. Is Nick right talking? He
was out all night a lot of these nights, the
night before, partying before the biggest you know, some of
(20:01):
the biggest spots of his life, and in I don't
know where we were in the tournament, but it was
where the when the Tejen guy or whatever his name
was was, you know, said, and this is a quote,
I might stick my dick up your nose to a
different player. He he and Grinder were both drinking during play.
(20:23):
It felt very far and Scottie win it felt this
whole thing felt like a throwback, which I think was
just fun to see, at least for me. I don't
know how you interpreted it.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, it was incredible. I mean it was incredible to watch,
And you know, I'm sentimental about these guys, Like before
I played poker, I was a pool room guy. And
pool room people, you know, they just go to the
pool room every day and you see the same guys.
Spanish Eddie is over there, Texas p fucking like, it's
(21:03):
just the same dudes in there every day, and there's
a gambling subculture, and you know that shakes out how
it does. Mike has been around for twenty years. He's
the real deal. He's a real gambler through and through.
And you know, people forget to his WPT run the
(21:24):
World Poker Tour, which I think a lot of people
can relate to. And I know a lot of your
listeners aren't poker players, but that's the kind of poker
where you see a lot of random, different dynamics and
stuff that you see in the Main It's why the
Main Event is the greatest tournament in the world, because
you see top pros play with amateurs and those dynamics
(21:44):
are just so incredible. Poker is a really interesting game
where anybody can kind of win on any given day
where that's not going to happen in any other sport,
any other sport. Correct, and Mike on the WPT was
very dominant. You know, he had a le Gendari run
where you could really make an argument that he was
one of the best, if not the best no limit
(22:06):
players in the world before computers kind of entered the foray.
So for him to have this happened post, you know,
it's it's really beautiful to watch, and he deserves it.
I mean people like to say people like to define
what deserve means, but to me, a big part of
(22:27):
it at least is reps hard and just showing up.
You know, if you just show up day after day,
good shit happens. Sometimes it doesn't need to be. People
liked argument but I've worked harder, or they define what
it is. But a lot of these guys they just
stay in the gym or what have you. This is
they stay in the right way whatever it is. All
(22:47):
jokes aside. This guy's lived the life, traveled around, played
so many tournaments, and when the rush really started happening.
A lot of us got emotional because it's just like,
it's just one of those things that if you've lived
this life and you felt the downs, which all of
us have the downs in gambling or no joke, I mean,
(23:08):
I know, you know, tons of people listening gamble and
bet on sports and whatever it did. They go to
the casino and you guys know how it is. When
it's not going well, it's a crippling feeling. The sadness
sets in, the whole thing sets in, and the grinders
felt that a million times. So to see this, it
just was unbelievable.
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Speaker 1 (25:04):
Well, and so I want to there's a couple other
kind of specific things I want to talk to about
him there and talk before we get to boxing, kind
of bigger picture world series things there were there were
a few late in the tournament, a few moves he
made or bets he made that were and I you know,
(25:28):
I am kind of cribbing you know some note some
things I've heard from either you or other true experts
of the game. So I'm not trying to present myself
as the expert on this, but we're object.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
You are good though, by the way, I'm sure a
lot of people don't know you like really play, but
nick play is for real, So.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I appreciate that. The Yeah, I mean, I I think
I am a very good amateur, you know what I mean.
But that's it's just a totally different world than being
anything close to a pro. And so so what I'm
saying here is not you know, my knowledge, so to speak,
But there were a few things he did that were
(26:07):
objectively wrong in theory, and you were in the booth
I know for at least one of them, where I
don't know. I just think he bet like forty million
with queens when like the bet to him was eleven million,
or it was something. I might butcher it a bit
if that was what it was. But you and I
and I think that's one of the reasons some of
(26:29):
the again my words, not nicks, more smug and also
less accomplished prose or like this guy's no good, just lucky.
We talked more about this later, and it's do you
think there was maybe more of a method to the
madness for some of this stuff than was originally recognized.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
You know, I'm really romantic with this stuff, so I
will my instincts. That night, I got in some really
ugly fights with some of my young young homies who
are very theory based, who have not had the accomplishments
of this guy, who were off to the racist with
(27:12):
the like it's all luck. You know, they weren't getting
behind it, and for me, it really made me sick,
you know, Like, so we got in some I mean
when I say ugly, like it's it's all good. Yes,
I do think there was some methods to the madness.
I also think it's okay to objectively disagree or say
(27:34):
some of these plays he maybe weren't totally for choice,
and it can still be just a part of the
story and a part of the win. When he went
all in with Queens, we spoke about this. At first.
I didn't like it, and it's such a good hand,
you know, in poker, sometimes you have a hand that's
so good generally queens, kings or aces that the strategy
(27:58):
most professionals would try to add is to raise an
amount where maybe you get some action. This is a
top few percent hand, and we want action from worse hands, grinders,
just slamming all in, drink, pumping up the crowd, and
it's like, yo, bro, mikey babe, take it easy, like
(28:18):
you got ladies here. But then I started to think
he does have complete control over this situation outside of
a few players who were providing resistance. And we're playing great.
Leomargett's played great, Kenny is a great player, And big
respect to all of them who made it down there,
(28:39):
because you can't know how deep someone is kind of
in the zone in that moment, or they're fine, what
they're really seeing through their eyes, you know, so it's
easy to say they're bad. And these guys are good,
but it's more complicated. But I started thinking, maybe he
feels he has so much control over the table and
he's seeing things so well, Because if you really watched
(29:02):
him maneuver, I've never seen a pro kind of wear
their heart on their sleeve the way he was. Where
he's like he's like bending over, he's shuffling the chips.
He's looking at him, it's almost like he's about to fold.
Then he looks at him again, something else hits him.
He's all in. Every move he made work so well,
and I think just he was reading them so well
(29:24):
and felt he had such control. Maybe he was trying
to kind of avoid variance in some of these spots
where he made these huge all ins. But without being
too long winded about it, I do disagree with some
of the plays he made. You're not going to play
on TV for twenty hours and get them all right anyway.
But the overall performance and the art that he created
(29:49):
and just the way he went about his business, it
all just came together.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
No, And this is where I am, and this is
kind of a more big picture sports discussion, But I
know you're you're very I think adamant that poker should
be considered a sport, that it is a sport, and
that so I think that it fits in this. Once
upon there have been a few types of sports discussions that,
(30:19):
in my opinion, used to be done at objectively terribly
and wrong. And now we have over corrected. And so there,
you know, there once upon a time, like in baseball,
if you had a one point four e er but
you're a seven and nine record, it's like, well not
winning the games, like.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
He just to lose it. He just doesn't have it.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
He does doesn't have it. Like that, that was objectively wrong.
We've gotten smarter about that, and a big part of
that has been the general philosophy of process over results.
Like you know what I mean, was the process correct
that matters more than the results. And in general, I
think that is the right way to look at things.
(31:04):
Where I think sports as a whole, and this is
an example where we have overcorrected. Is there seemed to
be a subset of folks who think not process over results,
process only and fuck the results, like I like, I
don't care what the results are. And another thing that
(31:26):
comes to mind, and I thought you did a great
job with it, was when Phil helm youth was doing
the heads up duels, of which I was one of
the victims, and he just he comes back from ninety
seven million to three million against Daniel, then beats him again,
then beats him again, then he clocks Antonio in two
(31:46):
out of three matches, gets a little lucky in a
third when he just kept winning, kept winning, and obviously
has these insane results at the World Series, and some
dealers are like a kind of think he sucks and
so like there to me, there there has to be
some humility in Maybe I don't understand why what someone
(32:14):
is doing works, but if the results become so overwhelming,
I have to recognize it's not dumb luck. There is
a process to it, just a process that I'm not
fully seeing. Do you think that's fair?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, I think it's totally fair. Uh. I think a
lot of poker players kind of need to feel that
process over results, only because you can sort of lose
your mind in this game if you don't adopt some
of that, because bad runs and such can can happen
and feel overwhelming. But you know, I mean, Helm, you've
(32:53):
bring some of this on himself. Where a grinder kind
of doesn't love Phil you know, big respect the all
time legend, of course, but he parades around and says
he's the best player in the world, or maybe he's
come off of that a little recently, and he gives
us a kind of pseudo villain, which is a beautiful thing.
Most people can't play that role. You know. I would
(33:15):
love to for fun, to just talk my shit and
like get everybody to hate me, like because you know,
I'm a big fight fan, so you know, if it
doesn't matter a heel, I'm not that guy. I'm not
the heel, like I want to just be normal or whatever.
But we'll do it, and it's a part of his thing,
and I've seen him rattle a lot of great young
players where he's calm out there and they are not.
(33:38):
You know, we had a few heels at this year's
World Series.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
One of them involved one of the most iconic moments
of the series, which was you. I don't want to
say breaking character, but you Martin Cabrel, who is European
fellow that I happen to like a lot, but I've
never had to play with him, who is a very
(34:06):
good player but also intentionally as annoying as about any
player we've had in the last decade in poker. I
don't even remember what he said to you. I just
know you responded with andio, oh go ahead, you you
know what the story? No? Please please? Can you you
know what I'm talking about here? Can you kind of
(34:27):
set the table for what happened there?
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yes, So, first of all, me and Martin are cool.
Now we wapped up at the end of the World Series.
It was funny that night we went to dinner when
we went to the French place. Yeah, I popped out
on the strip and walked back to my car. This
is just kind of most of you guys won't kind
of know what I'm talking about. But it's funny because
Martin asked me something and I kind of said, I said,
(34:54):
what's that pussy? Kind of like aggret, you know, and
I was ready, like, let's you want to do something.
But that's like it's for a guy to get me
to say that in a two hundred and fifty k
by and no limit tournament, you know. And I'm I
was cool with it because I was I felt like,
you know, he kept fucking with me over and over
(35:16):
and over, but that's part of what he does. And
I can I can sit back and be okay with it.
You know, I don't want the guy to be barred
or anything like that. It's just if you're going to
keep asking me to show you my stack, keep like.
He just kept poking and prodding, and I was like,
I was trying to fight in that moment. It's crazy,
but that's what happened. But when I was walking to
(35:38):
my car, somehow here he is coming out of the
horseshoe with his little European friend who looked kind of
like gangster like. They're all sort of like a little
bit gangster like. There's an element to Cabrel where like
and as you said too, he's a great player. Where
will Casouf, who you know, also it for some of
(35:58):
you that may have watched the main Casoof is another
one who's relentless with the table talk and stuff. Much
love to kassoof he's got skills. Maybe much love is
a is you.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Know, yeah, and he's but he's not. Cabrell is a
great player.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I know he's playing really really well. So it makes
him more annoying to deal with, you know. But I
saw him. We tapped up in it and he said, Meek,
finally you'll give me number now, Yes, I said, yes,
of course, he took my number. He texted me later, hi,
which is very kind of on brand. I said, yo.
He responded with thumbs up, and that was that.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
But okay, so that's what I was gonna ask you,
because the other, the other not as viral moment, was
him coming up to you and saying I need your
number or can I have your number, and you just
flatly saying no.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Look, I'm not gonna say I fully trust this guy,
but I kind of like him, and I think I'm
starting to come around to like kind of being all
right with him. You know. It's I don't know, man.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
I meaned, yes, poker be intolerable if everyone was like that,
like him, but I think it's not great if no
one is like them, and.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Just kind of not to cut you off, but like
it's just sort of life. Like we don't we're not
going to start doing a personality contest where if we
really don't like somebody, they're out. They have to either
cheat or do something scummy and then they're gone. It's
all good. Like I'm with that, you know. I I
have a zero tolerance policy of anything that really threatens
(37:36):
the integrity of the game. But if a guy is
just super annoying, it's a slippery slope, especially when they're
a good player, it's just a slippery slope. I don't
even think it's a slippery slope.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
I think it'd be I think that I I personally
and I use this example a lot, and I I
don't know Alex fox In very well at all, so
I hope if he's heard me use it, he does
and look at this as a knock at all. It's
actually a bit of a compliment because his I it
means I find his stare the most intimidating of all
(38:08):
the stairs. But if you're if it's totally fine for
Alex Foxen to just turn to you and you know,
stare at you dead in the face for every second
of the shot clock, then it's got to be totally
fine for Cabrel to just be a maniac and talk
(38:29):
and whatever. Because to me, it is it is just
fruit from the different or I'm saying it wrong, but
it's it's the same idea, which is I'm going to
do something that's going to rattle you, that's going to
get you off your game. One is just way more
accepted than the other. But for an amateur, we are
(38:52):
really used to a maybe drunk, super annoying, you know,
guy at the table, while not used to a former
college football tight end who might be the best player
in the world just staring through you and so like this,
So they're the kasoof thing, which is if people saw
the clips he was his behavior was so bad, people
(39:15):
then pivoted to you actually can't be mad at him
because something must be wrong with him, which I think
probably is correct. Like I think he had some sort
of a breakdown and that was were you were you
okay with how much attention he got? Yet, Yes, I
(39:35):
thought it was a good show. I thought it was
like captivating to watch.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
I thought it. I thought it was too And I'll
say just quickly about Fox and and them, uh you know,
I know it's it's a tricky thing with poker players.
We don't really have sponsors, we don't really get salaries
per se. And one of the cool things about poker
(40:00):
is it really is real life out there. So a
guy like Fox and what you're seeing is a stone
killer of a guy who and I know you're not
knocking him, you're showing up, but that's a stone killer
of a guy who's an amazing poker player who within
the confines of the rules, is going to do everything
he can to win, and he's comfortable flowing like that.
(40:23):
The weird thing about him is he's like a really
sweet guy and actually not brutal to play with until
he raises the button and you're in the big blind
and you're in the nine seat and he's in the
six seat. If you're not ready for that, that's a lot,
you know, it's a lot. It's a lot. Same with Chidwick.
We've talked about some of these other guys, but end
(40:45):
of the day, those are still sort of my favorite
players to watch because I know what this life is like.
They don't pay us to go to tournaments. We peace out,
We take a piece we're comfortable with and off we go,
you know, and it's kind of just like there can
be only one winner. It's a zero some games. So
(41:06):
that that's just a little bit of a pushback against
the sort of like what's good for poker narratives, but
from an observational standpoint, or when the tournament is just
unfolding organically, yeah, if a kasoof is in there deep
rattling the cages of pros, or if Cabrel is in
there doing his thing, you know, asking me to make
(41:27):
my stack visible a hundred times in or when I
have eight pig blinds and he could see it clearly,
it's just nick, Nick, I can if you make stack visible,
I won't ask again. But if I break down and
I say, Martin, it's right here. So I just started
responding in Russian. I will, like, won't let him break me.
But obviously he did break me a little bit, and
then I got knocked out and he made the final table.
(41:49):
Just be clear, but I just won't because I get emotional,
I get flush in the face. I can get embarrassed,
I know myself. But I've also had a lot of
altercations over the years where I finally learned how to
not sort of show it or just keep it together
to breathe. But yeah, like I was okay with the
(42:11):
Kasoof coverage, but I also thought maybe to get a
little bit excessive it sometimes. And also you could argue
it's not fair for the people at his table to
just be on the feature all day. I do like
the theory that the concept in theory of randomizing the
future tables because it is a little bit of a disadvantage.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
It's hot, the lights whatever, but and people get to
see how you if you're you know what I mean.
I mean that's yeah, so that I totally.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Get that story long I was okay with it.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, before we move on to uh to boxing, just
quick hit or ones real quick general thoughts on and
if you want to, feel free to say pass on
any of this. By the way, I leave one chip
behind in the night tank for a paye jump.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
You know. I love the player that committed that infraction
a lot, and he has a serious, like moral kind
of backbone and stuff, and also said to players at
the table, put me on the clock whenever you're ready.
I think it speaks more to the flaw in the
current structure of tournaments than a player doing that. However,
(43:24):
I don't like it. I think it's pretty absurd that
it's even a part of tournaments. And we need shot clocks,
you know, it's just time for pre flop shot clocks
and in pretty much anything. And you know, they take
enough break and make enough money to have an x
executable and well working clock for any field size.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
I think it's time, all right, then last, I'm gonna
make you before we do boxing, talk about yourself just
for a second. Uh, can you just take me through
finding out you were the one that made the whole
this year and what that meant to you.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah. I got a text from from Jack Effel, who
kind of runs the World Series or I'm not sure
what his exact role is, but you know he's a
big way type guy something.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yeah, he said, keep keep the date ready, please only
tell your immediate friends and family, and I got really emotional.
It meant a lot to me. There's definitely a part
of me that knows the reason I got in sort
of first ballot or my first year of eligibility is
(44:41):
my kind of presence in poker as commentating the main
and high stakes poker and connecting with some of the
fans and and just being kind of or putting a
lot of them just straight to sleep. Or this guy
makes me want to kill myself, or the monotone. But
most of them were we're good, and you know, so
(45:03):
I felt a little bit. There's other players that are
extremely deserving. You know, I think Ted Forrest should have
gotten in a while ago. Seevert is an all time
great he'll get in, but uh, it was really emotional
for me, and I just I reflected on my whole life. Man.
It's you know, this poker life is no joke. You know,
(45:23):
I wouldn't want to do anything else, and I'm very
grateful for it, but it takes a piece of you
you don't get back. And I've definitely gotten more centered
as a person. But that that thing made me think
about some of my darkest times in the game, or
when the game got the best of me, or some
of the late nights, and honestly, some of the huge
(45:45):
losses that I've taken and times I've just busted myself
or crazy stuff along the way. But I felt end
of the day, I deserved it in the sense that
I know what I've put into the game, so I
it mental heart to me and to see my parents
and stuff like that, and talk to people I haven't
spoken to in a while who were there for me early,
(46:07):
it was it was really emotional for me.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Well, that's awesome. I appreciate you sharing it. It's been
really a thrill for me that you and I have
become friends because I'm such like a poker junkie, like
i'd listened to you do commentary for years before we
ever met, and I'd obviously always heard you know great
things about you as a guy. But then once we
(46:31):
actually got to know each other, it was not only
did I want us to be able to work together,
but I also wanted there to be more Nick Schulman
broadcasting in the world, and not just about poker. And
so this is me kind of going a bit off script.
This is a message that applies to ninety nine percent
(46:51):
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(47:33):
ID verification and activation on sixty dollars plan taxes extra
five G speeds not available in all areas. While Nick
refuses to share his boxing bets with me, I figure
the best and by that's that's not a selfish things. No, No,
(47:54):
I just know the I think the last time, I
think it was a random you have c card. I
texted a group chat we're on about about something like
who I was at a casino and I didn't I
hadn't followed it at all. I'm like, who's you know,
who's the pick? And I think the response was I'm
not sharing my picks right now. I appreciate your respect,
my family's privacy in this time because I think you
(48:16):
had just lost and lost one. But that's not the point.
It was mostly joking. The point is the the level
of knowledge and uh passion for boxing in particular is,
in my opinion, neck and neck with where you're at
in poker. People just don't know it because you weren't
a boxer. You're a poker player. So there's a couple
(48:37):
really interesting fights this week, and there's a paqial fight
and there's the Usick fight in London. I think the
Packia fight you're gonna be, you know, right at in Vegas,
I assume, So let's start there and then go to
some other ones. I have not followed this as closely
as you. I'm sure I know there was some line
movement in the Pacquial fight, so give us.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yeah, okay, yeah, my glasses on for the boxing and
let's just be let's just be clear about something like
I'm getting Merry Christmas cards from bookies, like I believe
the generational run is coming in the boxing in MMA.
I'm a huge whil also die hard. I watch every interview,
(49:21):
I watch every fight like I want to chop it
up about boxing and really talk about these fights. But
this is not I'm not saying I'm sharp. I'm not
saying follow me. TVK was selling me before I came
on that I never saw a dog I didn't like.
That's a little bit true that sometimes they dangle a
dog in front of me and I just can't take it.
(49:41):
We've had our ups and downs, perhaps more downs, although
I've caught heat lately in the fight game, and it's
gonna happen. So you could either hop on the train now,
or keep doubting me. You want to go the other way.
We could talk, we could chop lines. I'm not short
on confidence, but I'm short on results.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Okay, all right, so I will all look at the
lines of all these fights courtesy of our friends DraftKings,
and we'll get to that in a minute. I also
want to clarify, for the non you know, diehard gambling
or Vegas audience, whale means big losing better. So when
(50:20):
Nick just said I'm a UFC whale, he wasn't saying
like I crush UFC better, right.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
He means you don't, at least in my definition, that's right. Yeah,
it means what you said.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Yes, yeah, you oddly don't want to be a whale.
It sounds like something you'd want to be, you don't want.
I guess it's nice to be able to have the
ability to be a whale because it means you have
the money, but you don't really want to be a whale.
Because okay, So with all that said, Nick's real concern is,
and I'm just gonna tell the audience he is not
a tout and does not want to be anyone to
think he's being a tout. What he is is giving
(50:54):
you know his boxing analysis that like you said, the
heater of a lifetime is coming and they're gonna build
us at you outside the arena. It's gonna happen. We
know it. Let's start with Pacquiao Burrios.
Speaker 4 (51:05):
Okay, so so pak yaw I if I if I,
if I may I got plus four ten? Ish A
while I was walking through the Aria, I was in
the sports book. You don't like Manny pak yao plus
four ten against Mario Barrios?
Speaker 2 (51:24):
Is he forty six? Yes? Is he coming back just
for the money? We don't know. You know, I believe
in him. I've now watched every interview and stuff, and
I'm starting to believe vintage pac Man might show up.
And by the way, the line has moved to roughly
to forty. We have to be happy crushing the closing line.
(51:46):
One specialty of mine is in the MMA, has beat
the line and just still lose that one. I'm an
amazing at and also I could get bad lines and
also still lose. It's a very interesting fight. You know,
when you think in boxing of older fighters, you think
of George Foreman and Bernard Hopkins, who both did magical
(52:08):
things in their mid to late forties. We've never really
seen a little guy who relied on blistering speed and
combinations and footwork come back in their mid forties and
make it happen. But you know, Paco's Filipino. And one
thing I know about these Filipino guys from the pool
(52:30):
room man not to generalize a whole nation, but they
just have a lot of hustle. This guy's razor sharp.
He plays a little poker himself. By the way, he's
a good chess player. He's actually a great pool player.
I mean, every Filipino guy kind of is. But I
believe he might have game planned. He might have known
something about Barrios's sty is a little flat footed. Maybe he
(52:53):
can get in and out and have a vintage night
and it would be a pretty special night a la
the grinder, you know, like yeah, so yeah, so you so.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
You're you're rooting for Pacquiao because you bet him. Also,
how much of that line movement was your bet by itself?
Possibly some of it.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
Not too much, don't get me wrong. We have a position,
but nothing crazy like.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
But you think he has a more than a more
than a puncher chance. You think he has a real chance,
and for people.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
A chancy stone out classism boxes his ears off and
makes it look easy. I also think it could be
a tragic night where it looks like he came back
for the money and he's just stuck in the mud
and gets hurt bad. You know that that's possible.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
And is there anything for the audience that don't seen Burrios?
Like what type of fighter he is? Like what you
expect from him?
Speaker 2 (53:44):
He has a stiff jab, he's he's not the quickest guy,
but he has heavy hands and he's been in there
with a lot of good guys. He's won most of
his fights. He's a real champion through and through. And
you know he's a kind of He's a Mexican from
San Antonio and a lot of people talk about these
Mexicans like like they're just willing to die in there
(54:07):
and this and that, but he really seems like he
is kind of you know, tons of heart, big nuts,
like great fighter, but vintage pac Man would wash him.
Everybody knows it, no disrespect. You know, could be wrong,
but we're talking about an eight division world champion, all
time great who you know, vintage pack was one of
(54:30):
the greatest fighters of all time. So if that guy
shows up, it could be a quick night. People are
saying like people are acting like they're rolling your grandfather
out to get out with the cane. This is manny
pac yeow man. He's been in the gym. This is
what I start doing. And we know where they.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
Like all the dogs. All right, let's talk a little
of the under undercards and we'll get to u sik Uh.
I'll hand up on me on this one. I I
know nothing about this fight. Fondora sees Zu. I don't
even know how to say the name Tim.
Speaker 2 (55:04):
Zoo, son of zoo Uh. The first fight was interesting.
Fondora won a decision, but but Zoo got a gash
on his forehead that like he looked like one of
the zombies from The Walking Dead. After round two. It's
actually crazy Fondora didn't get him out of there. Tim
(55:25):
is a small favorite this one. He he suffered a
brutal stoppage loss to this Eastern European whose name is brutal.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
But it was a bad stoppage.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
He suffered a bad stoppage and Fandora also basically got
starched out cold by Brian Mendoz in the center of
the ring with just a beautiful left hook. They've both
bounced back. I like Zoo. I think Zoo is gonna
just find a way to me. Fondora as great as
he is. They call him the Towering Inferno. They don't
weigh that much, but he's like six', six like it's
(55:58):
kind of freaky to. Me he just sort of doesn't
have a second, gear but he's great WHERE i Feel
tim has just that second. GEAR i think he's gonna
bite down on the mouthpiece and get it. Done AND
i really hope he. Does nick if if you catch my?
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Drift all, Right so all, RIGHT i like. That all,
Right so there's there's A so what's the pitbull? Fierro
we want to?
Speaker 2 (56:28):
Talk, oh we don't, know said medical. Emergency So pipple
is going to be a massive, favorite and you know
he's a cool. Fighter so oh so that, one that
one's just. Gone oh did that just happen yeah a
little while?
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Ago oh, okay oh, Yeah Omar, Salcito, yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
He was on the, undercard and you, Know pipple's probably
a twenty to one favorite or. Something gun Tohead i'd lay,
it BUT i don't, REALLY i don't like those that.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
Much, Well i'm hold, On i'm telling you right now, Again,
yeah go?
Speaker 2 (57:01):
On what is?
Speaker 1 (57:02):
YEAH i mean AT dk right, now you can Get.
Cruise wait is that who he's? Fighting hold, on DO
i have it? Wrong You Omar salcedo Against Isaac. Cruz
this is where we're Talking. Cruise oh, okay, sorry He's
Shock cruz minus eleven, hundred so eleven to.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
ONE i, mean you know that doesn't add.
Speaker 1 (57:23):
That to your other.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
Ones one THING i believe in the fight game in
general is that all these young guys are all. Evolving
they can evolve quicker between, fights in my, opinion than
the old, days because there's just such an influx of
content and and things to, watch you, know so on
and so. Forth you see him poker. Too sometimes kid
will just reinvent himself out of. Nowhere we're back in the,
(57:45):
day you. Know you know What i'm, Saying like the
world sort of moves. Faster so these huge. Favorites i'm
a little bit, skittish But piples can. Win he's probably
gonna stop. HIM i, mean But i'm not betting that.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
Fight, okay all, right let's go To. London You sick against.
Again is it du Boy Dubois Dubois you sick is
at least ON dk three to one Favorite dubois right
around plus two point. Fifty what's your thoughts on? That
so it feels like they kind of got that line
(58:20):
right like they often. Do dubois has really reinvented himself
masterful stoppage Of Anthony joshua heavy.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
Hands this is a rematch where there was a little
bit of. Controversy ousik got hit kind of on the belt.
Line from one, angle it looked. Low from the other
it looked, legal and he went down and he was
kind of acting like he was really hurt and got
a long count after it was ruled a low. Blow,
(58:52):
PERSONALLY i feel he was okay and was just kind
of doing weird. Gamesmanship AND i don't really. Know i've
watched it multiple. Times my general rule is keep betting
on generational talent that's, undefeated so gun to. HEAD i
would Bet usik AND i probably will be taking some
lazy price last minute and pacing around the living. Room
(59:16):
BUT i don't that's.
Speaker 1 (59:17):
It that that that's or if that fights In london
and you're In, vegas that's an early, afternoon sweat before
after it's a great.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
Day we got usic afternoon and then we're then we're
pulling up to The Grand Garden arena baby for to
watch pack to seventy two year old pack, out get out.
There what a.
Speaker 1 (59:37):
Saturday it makes me Wish i'd stayed In vegas for another.
Speaker 2 (59:40):
COMPANY i Think holloway is on TOMORROW, mma so we
might have the phone going and it's all.
Speaker 1 (59:45):
Happening do you have anything you want to say ABOUT
i know we've been talking about.
Speaker 2 (59:49):
The i've eighty six myself from even allowing my mind
to generate opinions ON. Mma But i'll watch AND i
might get wrapped, in BUT i just.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
All, right one more boxing question for we. Go but
to be, CLEAR i.
Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Like poorier, though, okay never.
Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Mind so you like So? Pacio who did you say
in the in The Tim zoo.
Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Fight he's Fighting. FONDORRA i, like, No, Zoo.
Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
That's WHAT i thought. That so you So pacio And
zoo you?
Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Like and AGAIN i Like pacy at that, PRICE i got, Yeah,
NO i still could see youth prevailing in the whole.
Thing but that plus four hundred was we knew that
wasn't gonna, last, right so you got it at a sharp.
Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Price because right, now for our our audience has to
be even more confident than you, were because right now
it's you got it basically. Double it's right, now right
around plus two ten burrios minus two seventy. Five, Listen
i'm not a professional. Gambler you're a professional poke player and.
Gambler some would say you have the perfect hedge opportunity
(01:00:52):
at minus two seventy. FIVE i, say IF i wanted
to hedge, BETS i would be a stockbroker instead of
WHAT i. Am i'm out here to, gamble BUT i
you know this IS i have a regular income. Stream
BUT i got you to.
Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Too, Yeah i'm more of the bet more. TYPE i
don't like the, hedging you. KNOW i have a friend
who's a master of the hedging and the, arbitraging AND
i get, it but it's such a grind And i'm
just not organized enough to even. Execute i'm a one and.
DONE i see a LINE i like AND i fire all.
Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Right couple minutes before we go on two months from
now In vegas At Raiders. STADIUM i mean it's gonna
like a massive place for a boxing, Event Canelo.
Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Crawford, YEAH i, MEAN i keep going back and forth
on this. One on the one, hand you cannot See
bud in the ring with somewhat prime TRIPLE G Dimitri,
beval despite the fact That canela, lost Even, coviallev even
(01:01:56):
alcoholic old Covial ev was still you, know sick one.
Big you can't See budd in there with those. Guys
bud got rocked By Uriorkis, gamboa who's you, know my
wife is bigger than. HIM i mean really, like but
you do see guys move up and wait and fill.
Out canelo has looked not as good. Lately his last.
(01:02:21):
PERFORMANCE i actually rewatched, it even though it's the most
boring fight of all time Against william's. SKULL i feel
he sort of just didn't, try like he knew he'd
get the, decision and just this guy was running around the,
ring And canello is just kind of lead hand, down
just sort of people are saying he can't cut the
ring off. Anymore i'm not sure about all. That he
(01:02:43):
was just cashing checks and doing just. Enough maybe If
bud stands in the pocket with him in, TRADES i
could See bud getting hurt you, know he didn't look
amazing at one point fifty four Against, madrimov but he
did get the job. Done and that guy's. QUALITY i
don't know IF i should say. IT i feel LIKE
i shouldn't say, this But i'm just gonna say. It
(01:03:06):
Phil ivey Likes. Bud and it isn't like he's just
riding With bud because you, know they're cut from the same,
cloth or you know What i'm. Saying he. Doesn't he'll
bet whoever he. Likes he's not just rocking With bud
out of. Love he is a ruthless sports better and
his position is that we have the goat on our.
(01:03:26):
Hands he Believes bud is perhaps just the goat and
that kind of hit. Me could we always talk about
the fights for, real and he's razor like you, know
but also he could sail to and you, know doesn't
get them all, right don't get me, Wrong but he, said,
yeah he's like you, know and he knows a lot
(01:03:47):
of people in. BOXING a lot of his family are
inboxing gyms or you, know for, real like like he's
just juiced in with a lot of guys his teams and.
Stuff phil co walk into any boxing gym In america
and get immediate love from. People he just, knows you.
Know he, said his people believe That Terrence crawford is you,
(01:04:10):
know we're not going to put him Above ali or,
whatever but going to go down as one of the
five greatest fighters of all. Time and he's that. Good
SO i Was canelo all day due to, side due
to you just cannot break the rules like this and
move up two weight classes from a weight class that's
already too big for you kind. OF i, mean he's
(01:04:30):
sort of matureman a fifty. Four but After ivy said
that to, me Apologies, phil if you, KNOW i hope
he doesn't see, this OR i would never give his plays.
Away but this One i'm just too excited. About after
he said that to, Me NOW i might just rock
With bud BECAUSE i love him, anyway you. Know but
(01:04:51):
Against Errol spence was the biggest sports BET i ever.
HAD i Had Terrence. CRAWFORD i just believed he's just too,
good you, know the biggest sports bet you ever? Had, Yes, Wow,
yes yes it. Was it wasn't actually THAT I i
fire bigger in the. Poker you, know WHEN i say,
that you'll be. Surprised don't get. Out it was a real.
(01:05:13):
Number it wasn't, like here's the. Deal you're your mind
is warped by.
Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
What a big bed is and what isn't by the
fact that you're hanging out With ivy and with guys
who are, you who are just, firing and also guys
not Just, ivy but guys who might put one.
Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Time ivy gave me ten percent of them in a crops.
Roll he, said just take ten percent for. Luck NICK i,
said all, right. Cool he came up to me, later
told HIM i owed him eighty five. Thousand been a
long time, ago, man you know WHAT i. MEAN i.
DID i did not see that one. COMING i told Him,
Phil i'm gonna need a minute on a on that.
(01:05:55):
One that's true.
Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Story, no that's.
Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Real, yeah you didn't he should.
Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Get percent of him and you didn't stay and sweat. It.
Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
No we were in a tournament and it was all
love and he would never ever give give a wrong.
Number you know.
Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
It Oh, NO i didn't mean sweat it like, no,
NO i, know But i'm saying.
Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
No. No it was just one of those. Things we
were hanging out and he put me on for ten
and you know at eighty five times. Ten IT'S i,
mean it was a big. LOSS i didn't see all.
Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
THAT i actually had heard. YOU i think you told
that story once, before SO i didn't remember the. NUMBER
i knew that. Happened but just BECAUSE i the in
case he is a little mad at you giving out his,
pick you have to tell one other story that makes
him sound so incredibly, cool which is when you got
(01:06:43):
the massage and didn't HAVE i.
Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Was GETTING i was getting a massage in a poker.
Tournament you, KNOW i had no cash on. Me he
was at the table AND i, Said, phil CAN i
CAN i borrow a little bit to pay for the?
Massage he, SAID i got.
Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
It.
Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Nick he reached in his pocket gave her a FIVE
K belaggio. Chip he, said here you, go, honey we're
at Five nick No russ five so good, legend all time.
Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
Legend he tips them as suits five. Thousand you then
have to. Pay, yeah oh, man all, right couldn't have ended.
Better you. Need here's the. Thing it's He's Nick. Shulman
he's A Poker hall Of, famer just one of seventh.
Brace so you can hear him on high stakes. Poker
you can hear him The World series Of poker On
(01:07:33):
Poker Go. Uh you hopefully can hear him do more
boxing stuff on this podcast and in other places as.
Well soon You the only THING i need from, You
nick is for you to sleep on whether or not
one of the social media breakout clips can be Phil
ivy Thinks Terence crawford can be the goat Because i'm
(01:07:54):
telling you that will do well on the. Internets you
don't have to decide, now because you.
Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
Gotta i'll, WELL i gotta ask. Him he's so. Sneaky
he's probably trying to Bet. Crawford you, KNOW i really
fucked up, here but it's all. Good it is what it.
Is he KNOWS i make. Mistakes i'm, emotional but this
guy is moving. Different he's not worried about no social
media eclips What i'm, Saying SO i think probably we
got to lay off. That but love, me, Man thank
you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
On, dude this Was you're the. Best go enjoy time
with your. Daughter i'm sure is now home from. School.
Uh And i'll see you. Back i'm back In vegas
in a couple of, weeks So i'll see.
Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
You i'll see you. Later
Host
Nick Wright
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