Nick Wright breaks down why Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and the Oklahoma City Thunder have secured an all-time NBA season following their Western Conference Finals win over Anthony Edwards and the Minnesota Timberwolves. What must happen for OKC to become an all-time team? Later, Nick reveals his latest edition of Club Superstar featuring Tyrese Haliburton's debut, LeBron James & Steph Curry, and SGA entering the MVP room. Lastly, Nick reacts to Saquon Barkley calling last season's Eagles a top five team of all-time and shares his top five NFL teams. #Volume #Herd
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the best of the Week for What's Right
with Nick Right the best takes in moments from this
week on the show. Enjoy. All right, let's do one
quick NFL thing and then get to some listener questions.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Saquon Barkley told Reid blank and Ship and Cooper Degene
on their podcast that the.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Man did you hold on? Did you know this demand
before we even get to it? I bad news for us.
We're now competing with a red Blanken hip Cooper dejen project.
That's that's That's a nice tand I clear my schedule.
I'm gonna have to catch up on the archives there.
(00:41):
All right, man, oh man, I bet that's an insightful show.
I'm excited to listen.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Okay, go ahead told him that that twenty twenty four
Eagles team the top five team in NFL history. You're
obviously a NFL historian.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
How true is that? Not only is it not true,
it's not even you can't even you can't even make
a credible argument for and by the way, Sakuan said
they were a top five team of all time and
then listed five other teams in his top five, which
(01:26):
then would make them. I guess the top six team
of all time, but one of the teams he listed
was the two thousand Ravens, which is not a top
twenty team of all time. Like, none of this makes sense,
But the seventy two Dolphins that went undefeated had the
(01:47):
number one offense and the number one defense and beat
teams by an average fifteen points a game. That's a
top five team of all time. The eighty four nine
Ers that went fifteen to one annihilated their po season
opponents start to finish, had a top two offense, top
two defense. The eighty five Bears that everyone talks about
(02:07):
the greatest defense of all time, which it had, but
it also had the number two offense in the sport
that year and beat their playoff opponents. De Monse ninety
one to ten is a top five team of all time.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
The Bears quarterback ever thrown from more than four thousand yards.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I know because they had.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Defense I guess was amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
But okay, the defense was amazing, and they had an
amazing running game. They scored the second most points of
any team in the league that year. The the who
are the other teams? I'm leaving out an obvious one
ninety two Cowboys pretty good. Seventy eight Steelers which had
I think eleven Hall of Famers, they're pretty good. The
(02:51):
seven Patriots didn't win the Super Bowl. The the greatest team
I've ever seen the twenty sixteen Patriots that went fourteen
and two and ran had a top too offense and defense.
They were pretty good. Uh, the ninety eight Broncos in
route to a back to back championship. Like listen, the
Eagles had the number eight offense, number two defense, and
(03:15):
were in one score playoff games in rounds one in
rounds two? Now, did the Eagles have a top five
Super Bowl performance because of what they did and who
they did it to? Sure? All listen to that. You
want to say, did they have a top five all
time final two games by just dismantling the Commanders and
(03:37):
then dismantling the Chiefs. Sure, I'll listen to that. But
top five? Yeah, but they still scored fifty five, you
know what I mean? Or whatever they scored like the Sure,
but I just again, everyone just leave the list to me.
(04:00):
Your guys lists suck. And again I just and he
wouldn't even it was so his top Here were his
top five teams of all time for the record, seventy
two Dolphins because they're undefeated. Good job, eighty five Bears,
good job the two thousand Ravens, who it's not even
(04:25):
a tenable opinion. And then he was like one of
the Brady teams and one of the Mahomes teams, like
that's not even like a thing, and so I just
like whatever, all right, let's remember to everyone like rate, subscribe,
review if you have time to, you know, when you're
(04:47):
not listening to the Read blank and Ship Cooper Degen podcast,
if you want to check out what's right with Nick right,
we'd appreciate it. You know you think I'm being rude there, Demansey.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
The podcast, It's gonna be very insightful, and you know.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I'm gonna go do a three cone drill after this
after our pod.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So you unveiled your latest rendition of Club Superstar, and
you took Donovan, you put hot Donovan Mitchell in and
Hallyan for the first time, you took embiid and a
d out. Could you explain to us your process and
how the club management goes about getting these guys in
and out?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, so all right, so tell me. So, here are
the twelve guys in and we can put the graphic
up Halliburton, Brunson, Joker, Shay, Luca, Jannis, braun Steph, Donovan,
Durant and Tatum. It's a twelve person max, So if
(05:48):
you want to put someone in, you got to kick
someone out. We took out Embiid because of all the
injury stuff and ad for similar reasons. You might be like,
then how does Tatum stay in? Tatum has been so
consistent and so durable that you know, one season long
injury does not get him kicked out? Like his spot
(06:10):
is secure? Uh, you seem to have I mean the
hardest call was Donovan.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Donovan Mitchell surprised me.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, so who would you would you have any of
those guys in over him?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
That's what I was I was trying to think of.
I mean, uh, yeah, Anthony Davis is the because.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
In line was Wimby, Cad Shingoon and Devin Booker. Wimby
is the obvious next guy in, but he's got to
actually do it, you know what I mean, He's got
to actually earn his way in. And so I I
(07:00):
you know, I did a bit job with that had
all that.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, I understand how Donovan Mitchell slips in.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
There the sorry can you hear me? Sol Demons?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yes, I've got you.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Okay, good, Sorry about that, my I knocked my AirPod
out of my ear. I mean, a D is a tough,
tough one. And the argument against Donovan is, you know,
eight years in the league and the playoffs every year,
never in round three. It's hard, though, to use that
as an argument to put a D n over him,
because do I think Donovan could have you know, made
(07:36):
a conference finals or an NBA finals alongside Lebron like
a D. Did I do? Like we when a D
was the guy he never got past round one. It's
a tricky spot. Donovan is for a guy who hasn't
been deep in the playoffs, he's not a playoff dropper,
(07:58):
like you know what I mean. It's up huge numbers,
and Brew raised the question do we not have twelve superstars? Right?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
That's the other thing I was kind of thinking, but
go ahead, It's just like no, go ahead. Was just
looking around at the teams. I'm like, who can get
in over this guy? But it's like it's a little scarce, right.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
It's a weird because the league is so deep on
really good players. But maybe a little thin on great,
great players because the other argument was should Kevin Durant
be out? And my answer to that question is, he's
such an iconic player who still plays at a high
(08:39):
enough level. I don't feel comfort He's still twenty seven
a game, you know what, I don't feel comfortable, yeah,
taking him out? So to me, those are the twelve
What are your follow ups here? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I care to explain how Joki took Lebron's throne.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
That was an editorial choice made by the artist Jack Perkins,
who does a great job. You can follow him on
Twitter at Pure Hoop and listen. I give him the lists.
He makes the picture. I gotta tell you, I wasn't
thrilled with seeing Lebron out of the throne, but I
guess Jokers earned it for now. But yeah, that was
(09:24):
not I didn't trust me. I didn't I didn't demand
that now I did hear.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
That.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I'm okay with Lebron being moved out of the throne
because he's no longer in the argument the best player
in the league. MI Pal Simmons yesterday did a top
fifteen player pyramid and didn't have Lebron on that. Now
that's an outrage, Like, that's just objectively that. Here's the
thing about the Lebron rankings that is so irritating to
(09:56):
me at times, people keep primative surely downgrading him because
of his age, when we just saw he just finished
sixth in MVP voting, sixth. He just finished firmly second
team All NBA. So why all of a sudden is
(10:18):
he not one of the fifteen best players in the league.
Like you, the Lebron is anywhere you You could fairly
argue for Lebron to be as high as fifth and
as low as tenth best player in the league. But
(10:38):
that's it. And the what is frustrating to me about
Bill's ranking specifically is the he still has Steph Curry
as like the seventh best guy. There's no there's there's
no way to look at this NBA season and say
(11:00):
Steph was better than Lebron, not by stats, not by
team record, not by individual accolades, not by any of it.
Now you can say his team made it one round
further in the playoffs, so be it that that part
is true, But that's it was that, but that team
also was and be like, well, how much of Lebron's
team success this year was because they traded for Luca.
(11:23):
STEP's team was sub five hundred when they traded for Jimmy. Like,
that's a weird one for me. But set that aside.
Lebron obviously still superstar. Steph's obviously still a superstar, and
that's you know, that's where we're at all, right.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Next, do you think that Halliburton still would you still
given him a spot if he would have lost in
round one?
Speaker 1 (11:45):
No? Now, I submitted this list before round one was over.
I submitted this list. I took a screenshot of it
yesterday to send to Gianna of when I submitted this list.
I submitted this list May seventh. So let's see where
we were in the playoffs on May seventh. I've got
(12:10):
to I can pull that up quickly. So when I
submitted this list, we were the games that had just
been played. Is the Pacers had just taken a two
to zero lead on the Caves. Oh, so that's interesting.
I didn't even realize that I submitted this list the
(12:35):
morning after Halliburton executed that insane comeback on the Calves.
And so maybe I, you know, maybe I was kind
of in the afterglow of that. But he's proven me
right by his performances throughout. And the other thing is
(12:55):
so no losing in round one? No, But had they
ended up losing in round two to still been comfortable
with it?
Speaker 3 (13:05):
All?
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Speaker 2 (15:28):
Oklahoma City dominated Minnesota. Last night, the defense was humming
all of OKC stars were looking good. People want to
talk about the probability of this being a dynasty. You
think they should hold the brakes on it. What is
OKC gunning for here historically?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Well, listen, they are four wins away demons from one
of the single greatest seasons in NBA history. Like that
part is that has to be There's two real metrics
for two hard metrics for how good your seaton, like
(16:10):
how good your season was, and then some softer metrics.
But the first one is how many games did you win?
What was your record? And they have now become the
fourth team ever to enter the finals with eighty victories.
And now, when we go long to long term history,
(16:32):
you got to recognize that the playoffs have expanded a
bit and changed but a shorthand. You know, the ninety
six Bulls who won seventy two regular season games did it.
The ninety seven Bulls who won sixty nine regular season
games did it. And the seventy three win Warriors who
(16:54):
won seventy three regular season games but did not win
the championship. They all did it. They all got to
eighty wins before the start of the NBA Finals. So
check off that box. As far as you know, that's
really a regular season stat. It means how many regular
season wins did you get? But we already knew sixty
(17:16):
eight wins. The list of teams to win more than
sixty eight games in a single season are those two seventy,
the seventy two win Balls, the sixty nine win Balls
that I mentioned, the seventy three win Warriors, and then
(17:37):
one other team, the sixty nine Lakers that they went
on to win the championship. That's every team that won
more regular season games than these Thunder The teams to
win sixty eight games are also at least well, one
of them is an all time team. The other one
(18:00):
came up short to the Knicks in the conference finals.
You have the eighty three Sixers, who I'm sorry, not
the eighty three sixers, the sixty seven sixers, the eighty
three sixers that were I put them there because I
think they're one of the greatest teams ever, the faux
Fox Fox Sixers, but that was not they were not
(18:22):
the dominant regular season team. These teams were. And then
the seventy three Celtics, which came up short, and then
this Thunder team. If we lower the threshold to sixty
seven wins. Then it gets a little fuzzier because you
have some great teams and some not so great teams.
Sixty seven wins, the eighty six Celtics in the short
(18:45):
on the short list of greatest team of all time, Like,
that's pretty undeniable that you've got to at least include
them when you are discussing who are the greatest teams
of all time? The eighty six Celtics have to be
on that list. The ninety two Bowls, who I actually
think might be maybe the best of the Bulls teams
(19:11):
that finished off the first three peat. There's at least
an argument there. The two thousand Lakers, the first championship
with Shaq and Kobe, the twenty fifteen Warriors, which is
the first championship with Steph, the twenty seventeen Warriors, the
(19:34):
first championship with Stephan Durant, and then a couple teams.
One that gets kind of is a punchline, and the
other is an all time great team that ran up
against another all time great team. The punchline is the
seven MAVs, who lost in Round one after winning sixty
(19:55):
seven games to the We Believe Warriors. And the other
one is the twenty sixteen Spurs who just happened to
be it. I mean, that team was unbelievable. They got
clipped in round two by the twenty sixteen Thunder, who
then ran into the twenty sixteen Warriors, who then ran
(20:17):
into Pete Lebron James. But so to do this quickly,
teams to win sixty seven plus you have first year
Steph won a title, first year Stephan Kde won a
title together. You have the first year Shaq and Kobe
(20:39):
won a title. You have Jordan's Bulls the third time
they won a title, and the best Celtics team of
all time, the eighty six Celtics. Those are the sixty
seven win teams plus the two with that I just
mentioned that didn't win the title. The sixty eight win
teams are this year's Thunder. And then you add to
(20:59):
it the seventy three Celtics not you know, at a
disappointing playoffs, and then sixty seven six Ers with Wilt
won the title, and then sixty nine win teams Jordan's Bowls,
the fifth championship, the Laker team that had the thirty
three game winning streak in seventy two, the ninety six
(21:21):
Bulls won seventy two, and then the Warriors the seventy
three win Warriors. So that's the company they keep. So
there's one kind of hard piece of data, how many
games did you win? The other one is were you
blowing people out? And teams that finished the year with
(21:44):
a ten plus point differential? Eighties last year's Celtics and
then the eight Celtics, Kareem's Bucks in seventy one, the
Durant first year Durant Warriors, that other Warriors team the
(22:05):
first year they won the title, the Bowls a couple times,
and the Lakers in seventy two. The Thunder beaten teams
this year by almost thirteen points per game. So they
check both of the hard metric boxes. You then add
(22:27):
the kind of softer factors. How good was the league
in that time? I think the league's as talented as
it's ever been. What was their path to the finals
and to a championship? That one probably cuts against them
a bit. They are not going through legendary opponents en route,
(22:50):
and they won't face a legendary opponent in the finals.
They did, however, go through a legendary player in Joker
and that was a classic set game series. Another kind
of soft factor. Did they have an all time player
on their team all time? I don't know yet, but
(23:12):
the guy who had the best season this year and Shae,
Yeah they did. I mean, Shay was unbelievable in the
regular season, has been almost as good in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Would not have would not have an all time player
make it a better feat.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
It might make it more impressive, but it's hard to
argue when you're talking about the best single seasons in
NBA history, it's and I left out some of the
sixty six win teams and some of the best teams
ever were sixty six win teams. Lebron's Heat that had
the twenty seven game winning streak I mentioned earlier, the
(23:52):
eight Celtics, which were awesome. Those were the margin of victories.
I mentioned Kareem's Bucks that you know there are some
a couple Lakers teams, one with Magic, one with Kobe.
Oh those were sixty five, not sixty six. But it
would make it more impressive. Maybe demands, But when we're
talking about who the greatest teams of all time are,
(24:13):
and if we're trying to do the hypothetical, if they
were to match up against each other, right, you want
to be able to say, our guy can at least
kind of look eye to eye with your guy. And
if your guy is peak Wilt Chamberlain or peak Michael
Jordan or peak Larry Bird, and my guy is yeah,
(24:38):
Chauncey Billips and again. And I'm just picking a team
that won the title, even though they're not in the
all time team discussion. That's gonna be a harder argument
to make. Shay is making an argument that he's building
an all time resume. It's a weird one because of
how he started, and it was a slow progression, but
(24:59):
he's just got better and better and better every single year.
I so I am okay with saying this is an
all time single season. I am not okay with saying
this is an all time team because what the other
all time teams had was stacked accomplishments, you know, multiple finals, appearances,
(25:25):
multiple championships, and the teams kind of bleed together. But
single season it's that. But that then gets us to
the point you were making. And I understand Pacer fans maybe,
or Nick fans even or like, my god, you're acting
like they won the championship yesterday, and to that I
(25:46):
would say, no, I'm not. I actually acted like they
won the championship on Monday night, because to me, they did.
That was the That was the end of the competitive
portion of this year's NBA season. And that's not to
say the Pacers or the Knicks can't beat them in
a game. But when a team has home court and
(26:08):
that team beats people in the playoffs at home by
fifty one, nineteen, forty three, seven, thirty two, twenty six,
fifteen and thirty with one loss coming on a buzzer beater,
(26:34):
they're gonna win the championship when they also are a
team that can, if it were to happen, Demons deal
with injury better than any other team in the now.
They can't deal with an injury to Shay, but nobody
can lose their best player. They could, but they they
could lose JDub or Chet and still win the championship
(27:00):
much less lose what I mean, go ahead?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Oh no, yeah, I don't know. I feel like Cheed
is such a presence. Chet losing Check probably put them.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Oh, I think it would change them, but I wouldn't like,
I wouldn't write them off any of these other teams,
if they lost one of their three best guys, you
would basically just write them off. You couldn't do it
with this team because of how deep they are. So
I have and I'm not trying to give myself credit here,
(27:34):
I am trying to remind the audience. I guess I
was not one of the loud Thunder skeptics. Now. I
didn't pick them to win the championship because I thought
the Lakers could beat them. After I saw the Lakers
beat them in a game the Thunder wanted and then
the Lakers play them to a tie until Luca got
(27:55):
kicked out, and I was like, Okay, I think the
Lakers are the one team that can give them real
prime problems. Maybe Boston. But I thought the Thunder were
a legitimate championship caliber team all year, and the moment
the Lakers went out, I said, I think they're gonna
win the title. With all that said, I think the
(28:17):
dynasty talk is so silly, and I understand folks argument
is they are set up so well. And I will
just make the point that I made on Tuesday again.
We think every team almost is set up so well
(28:40):
when they're in the midst of winning, and to which
some people will reply, yeah, but those teams weren't as young.
That's true that the Bucks in twenty twenty one, or
the Nuggets in twenty twenty three, or even the Celtics
last year weren't as young. However, with the Bucks and
(29:01):
the Nuggets, we did feel like their best player was
in already in once they won the title, the historically
great conversation, and Shay isn't quite in that yet. Like
we thought, yes, this Thunder team's younger, but we thought
(29:23):
that Giannis and Joker in that moment were a tick
above where Shay is in this moment. And the other
argument people are going to make is yes, but the
nugget it's the for the Thunder, it's all that draft
capital that they have, And that is true, but it's
(29:45):
also a little misleading. So the the Thunder's draft capital
is more quantity than quality. So I'm I'm going to
go through it just too. And this is courtesy of
(30:06):
real GM to remind people what they have, because what
you're gonna see is it's a ton of stuff, and
it's a ton of stuff that theoretically they could use
in trades, but it's not like oh Man, that could
be the third pick of the draft. Okay, so this
(30:28):
year they have the fifteenth pick from Miami and the
twenty fourth pick from the Clippers, at least I think
fact checked me in the because I don't have this
year's pulled up. Fact check me in the doc if
I'm wrong about this year. But they the then next year,
what they have. They have Houston's pick next season protected
(30:55):
one through four, So Houston, we think Houston's going to
be quite good next year, so a late pick next year.
And then they have I want to make sure I
get this right, the Clippers pick next year. So I
(31:17):
think the Clippers showed us this year that they are
going to be at least a credible team, and so
are those are fine picks, but none of those appear
or feel like those are going to be, you know,
(31:39):
I lottery top ten picks, right. And then they have
Phillies pick next year potentially, and again they only get
two of these, So these are the best ones they
could get. Phillies pick if it falls outside of the
top four, and Utah's pick if it falls outside of
the top eight. The moral of the story is next
(32:00):
year they are going to have a bunch of extra picks,
and they all look like they are not going to
be lottery picks because Utah is the only team on
that list that is likely going to be in the lottery,
and Utah likely is going to be able to keep
their pick because it'll be in the top eight. In
twenty twenty seven, they again they get the Clippers pick,
(32:23):
and that's unprotected. Maybe that could be good. Maybe, and
Denver's pick, which, assuming Joker doesn't retire, is not going
to be that good. And in twenty twenty eight they
can swap with Dallas. Again, do we think Dallas, now
(32:46):
that they have Cooper Flag and Anthony Davis is there,
that that's going to be a top five pick? No,
And then that's really I think they have one more
Denver pick later, but again, unless we think Joker is
going to retire. So the point I'm making in a
somewhat convoluted fashion is it's a lot of stuff, but
(33:09):
it's not great stuff. Now the argument there would be demons. Yeah,
but they can package that stuff for a star. And
that then gets to to me the next interesting domino
for the Thunder, which is, yeah, are they going to
(33:30):
want to be expensive? Are they going to want to
for the first time in franchise history be a big
luxury tax butt up against the apron type of team.
And my answer to that question is I don't see
why they would now. And you can say, well, they
(33:51):
want to check right, correct, right, They didn't want to
pay it then, And you can be like, well, but
now they won a championship. That could cut either way.
Maybe you would be like, they want a championship now
they just want to win, win, win. They also want
to be like, we want a championship without having a
super expensive team, so why do we need one? And
(34:13):
so it is a different NBA guys, and it's a
different NBA. Also in this regard the onl like the
guys who have reeled off a bunch are guys who
(34:36):
are top ten all time players. The one guy who
is pretty consensus outside of the top ten who reeled
off even two is Isaiah Thomas, and he's firmly in
the top twenty, but outside the top ten. So Joker
(35:00):
would have checked those boxes. Little Unlucky some Jamal Murray's injuries,
you know, Jannis could have potentially little Unlucky, uh didn't
have you know, this type of pick Bounty though, to
be fair in Milwaukee, to make up for some of
those mistakes. And I'm not saying Shay is not Shaye.
(35:22):
I said all year was the MVP. But it is
surprising to me how many people who a month ago
were quite convinced the Celtics were about to reel off
a bunch of championships are now convinced the Thunder are
(35:44):
about to reel off a bunch of championships. And so
I you know too long, didn't listen all time single
season team. Yes, set up pretty well for the future. Yes,
going to win this championship without a doubt. Yes, ready
(36:10):
to pencil them in for multiple titles. No, So that's
where I land on Oklahoma City. They will be in
the mix for years to come, but as a lot
of teams can attest, in the mix doesn't really buy
(36:30):
you anything in the modern NBA
Welcome to the best of the Week for What's Right
with Nick Right the best takes in moments from this
week on the show. Enjoy. All right, let's do one
quick NFL thing and then get to some listener questions.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Saquon Barkley told Reid blank and Ship and Cooper Degene
on their podcast that the.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Man did you hold on? Did you know this demand
before we even get to it? I bad news for us.
We're now competing with a red Blanken hip Cooper dejen project.
That's that's That's a nice tand I clear my schedule.
I'm gonna have to catch up on the archives there.
(00:41):
All right, man, oh man, I bet that's an insightful show.
I'm excited to listen.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Okay, go ahead told him that that twenty twenty four
Eagles team the top five team in NFL history. You're
obviously a NFL historian.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
How true is that? Not only is it not true,
it's not even you can't even you can't even make
a credible argument for and by the way, Sakuan said
they were a top five team of all time and
then listed five other teams in his top five, which
(01:26):
then would make them. I guess the top six team
of all time, but one of the teams he listed
was the two thousand Ravens, which is not a top
twenty team of all time. Like, none of this makes sense,
But the seventy two Dolphins that went undefeated had the
(01:47):
number one offense and the number one defense and beat
teams by an average fifteen points a game. That's a
top five team of all time. The eighty four nine
Ers that went fifteen to one annihilated their po season
opponents start to finish, had a top two offense, top
two defense. The eighty five Bears that everyone talks about
(02:07):
the greatest defense of all time, which it had, but
it also had the number two offense in the sport
that year and beat their playoff opponents. De Monse ninety
one to ten is a top five team of all time.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
The Bears quarterback ever thrown from more than four thousand yards.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I know because they had.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Defense I guess was amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
But okay, the defense was amazing, and they had an
amazing running game. They scored the second most points of
any team in the league that year. The the who
are the other teams? I'm leaving out an obvious one
ninety two Cowboys pretty good. Seventy eight Steelers which had
I think eleven Hall of Famers, they're pretty good. The
(02:51):
seven Patriots didn't win the Super Bowl. The the greatest team
I've ever seen the twenty sixteen Patriots that went fourteen
and two and ran had a top too offense and defense.
They were pretty good. Uh, the ninety eight Broncos in
route to a back to back championship. Like listen, the
Eagles had the number eight offense, number two defense, and
(03:15):
were in one score playoff games in rounds one in
rounds two? Now, did the Eagles have a top five
Super Bowl performance because of what they did and who
they did it to? Sure? All listen to that. You
want to say, did they have a top five all
time final two games by just dismantling the Commanders and
(03:37):
then dismantling the Chiefs. Sure, I'll listen to that. But
top five? Yeah, but they still scored fifty five, you
know what I mean? Or whatever they scored like the Sure,
but I just again, everyone just leave the list to me.
(04:00):
Your guys lists suck. And again I just and he
wouldn't even it was so his top Here were his
top five teams of all time for the record, seventy
two Dolphins because they're undefeated. Good job, eighty five Bears,
good job the two thousand Ravens, who it's not even
(04:25):
a tenable opinion. And then he was like one of
the Brady teams and one of the Mahomes teams, like
that's not even like a thing, and so I just
like whatever, all right, let's remember to everyone like rate, subscribe,
review if you have time to, you know, when you're
(04:47):
not listening to the Read blank and Ship Cooper Degen podcast,
if you want to check out what's right with Nick right,
we'd appreciate it. You know you think I'm being rude there, Demansey.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
The podcast, It's gonna be very insightful, and you know.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I'm gonna go do a three cone drill after this
after our pod.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So you unveiled your latest rendition of Club Superstar, and
you took Donovan, you put hot Donovan Mitchell in and
Hallyan for the first time, you took embiid and a
d out. Could you explain to us your process and
how the club management goes about getting these guys in
and out?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, so all right, so tell me. So, here are
the twelve guys in and we can put the graphic
up Halliburton, Brunson, Joker, Shay, Luca, Jannis, braun Steph, Donovan,
Durant and Tatum. It's a twelve person max, So if
(05:48):
you want to put someone in, you got to kick
someone out. We took out Embiid because of all the
injury stuff and ad for similar reasons. You might be like,
then how does Tatum stay in? Tatum has been so
consistent and so durable that you know, one season long
injury does not get him kicked out? Like his spot
(06:10):
is secure? Uh, you seem to have I mean the
hardest call was Donovan.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Donovan Mitchell surprised me.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, so who would you would you have any of
those guys in over him?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
That's what I was I was trying to think of.
I mean, uh, yeah, Anthony Davis is the because.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
In line was Wimby, Cad Shingoon and Devin Booker. Wimby
is the obvious next guy in, but he's got to
actually do it, you know what I mean, He's got
to actually earn his way in. And so I I
(07:00):
you know, I did a bit job with that had
all that.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, I understand how Donovan Mitchell slips in.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
There the sorry can you hear me? Sol Demons?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yes, I've got you.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Okay, good, Sorry about that, my I knocked my AirPod
out of my ear. I mean, a D is a tough,
tough one. And the argument against Donovan is, you know,
eight years in the league and the playoffs every year,
never in round three. It's hard, though, to use that
as an argument to put a D n over him,
because do I think Donovan could have you know, made
(07:36):
a conference finals or an NBA finals alongside Lebron like
a D. Did I do? Like we when a D
was the guy he never got past round one. It's
a tricky spot. Donovan is for a guy who hasn't
been deep in the playoffs, he's not a playoff dropper,
(07:58):
like you know what I mean. It's up huge numbers,
and Brew raised the question do we not have twelve superstars? Right?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
That's the other thing I was kind of thinking, but
go ahead, It's just like no, go ahead. Was just
looking around at the teams. I'm like, who can get
in over this guy? But it's like it's a little scarce, right.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
It's a weird because the league is so deep on
really good players. But maybe a little thin on great,
great players because the other argument was should Kevin Durant
be out? And my answer to that question is, he's
such an iconic player who still plays at a high
(08:39):
enough level. I don't feel comfort He's still twenty seven
a game, you know what, I don't feel comfortable, yeah,
taking him out? So to me, those are the twelve
What are your follow ups here? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I care to explain how Joki took Lebron's throne.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
That was an editorial choice made by the artist Jack Perkins,
who does a great job. You can follow him on
Twitter at Pure Hoop and listen. I give him the lists.
He makes the picture. I gotta tell you, I wasn't
thrilled with seeing Lebron out of the throne, but I
guess Jokers earned it for now. But yeah, that was
(09:24):
not I didn't trust me. I didn't I didn't demand
that now I did hear.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
That.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I'm okay with Lebron being moved out of the throne
because he's no longer in the argument the best player
in the league. MI Pal Simmons yesterday did a top
fifteen player pyramid and didn't have Lebron on that. Now
that's an outrage, Like, that's just objectively that. Here's the
thing about the Lebron rankings that is so irritating to
(09:56):
me at times, people keep primative surely downgrading him because
of his age, when we just saw he just finished
sixth in MVP voting, sixth. He just finished firmly second
team All NBA. So why all of a sudden is
(10:18):
he not one of the fifteen best players in the league.
Like you, the Lebron is anywhere you You could fairly
argue for Lebron to be as high as fifth and
as low as tenth best player in the league. But
(10:38):
that's it. And the what is frustrating to me about
Bill's ranking specifically is the he still has Steph Curry
as like the seventh best guy. There's no there's there's
no way to look at this NBA season and say
(11:00):
Steph was better than Lebron, not by stats, not by
team record, not by individual accolades, not by any of it.
Now you can say his team made it one round
further in the playoffs, so be it that that part
is true, But that's it was that, but that team
also was and be like, well, how much of Lebron's
team success this year was because they traded for Luca.
(11:23):
STEP's team was sub five hundred when they traded for Jimmy. Like,
that's a weird one for me. But set that aside.
Lebron obviously still superstar. Steph's obviously still a superstar, and
that's you know, that's where we're at all, right.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Next, do you think that Halliburton still would you still
given him a spot if he would have lost in
round one?
Speaker 1 (11:45):
No? Now, I submitted this list before round one was over.
I submitted this list. I took a screenshot of it
yesterday to send to Gianna of when I submitted this list.
I submitted this list May seventh. So let's see where
we were in the playoffs on May seventh. I've got
(12:10):
to I can pull that up quickly. So when I
submitted this list, we were the games that had just
been played. Is the Pacers had just taken a two
to zero lead on the Caves. Oh, so that's interesting.
I didn't even realize that I submitted this list the
(12:35):
morning after Halliburton executed that insane comeback on the Calves.
And so maybe I, you know, maybe I was kind
of in the afterglow of that. But he's proven me
right by his performances throughout. And the other thing is
(12:55):
so no losing in round one? No, But had they
ended up losing in round two to still been comfortable
with it?
Speaker 3 (13:05):
All?
Speaker 1 (13:06):
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Speaker 2 (15:28):
Oklahoma City dominated Minnesota. Last night, the defense was humming
all of OKC stars were looking good. People want to
talk about the probability of this being a dynasty. You
think they should hold the brakes on it. What is
OKC gunning for here historically?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Well, listen, they are four wins away demons from one
of the single greatest seasons in NBA history. Like that
part is that has to be There's two real metrics
for two hard metrics for how good your seaton, like
(16:10):
how good your season was, and then some softer metrics.
But the first one is how many games did you win?
What was your record? And they have now become the
fourth team ever to enter the finals with eighty victories.
And now, when we go long to long term history,
(16:32):
you got to recognize that the playoffs have expanded a
bit and changed but a shorthand. You know, the ninety
six Bulls who won seventy two regular season games did it.
The ninety seven Bulls who won sixty nine regular season
games did it. And the seventy three win Warriors who
(16:54):
won seventy three regular season games but did not win
the championship. They all did it. They all got to
eighty wins before the start of the NBA Finals. So
check off that box. As far as you know, that's
really a regular season stat. It means how many regular
season wins did you get? But we already knew sixty
(17:16):
eight wins. The list of teams to win more than
sixty eight games in a single season are those two seventy,
the seventy two win Balls, the sixty nine win Balls
that I mentioned, the seventy three win Warriors, and then
(17:37):
one other team, the sixty nine Lakers that they went
on to win the championship. That's every team that won
more regular season games than these Thunder The teams to
win sixty eight games are also at least well, one
of them is an all time team. The other one
(18:00):
came up short to the Knicks in the conference finals.
You have the eighty three Sixers, who I'm sorry, not
the eighty three sixers, the sixty seven sixers, the eighty
three sixers that were I put them there because I
think they're one of the greatest teams ever, the faux
Fox Fox Sixers, but that was not they were not
(18:22):
the dominant regular season team. These teams were. And then
the seventy three Celtics, which came up short, and then
this Thunder team. If we lower the threshold to sixty
seven wins. Then it gets a little fuzzier because you
have some great teams and some not so great teams.
Sixty seven wins, the eighty six Celtics in the short
(18:45):
on the short list of greatest team of all time, Like,
that's pretty undeniable that you've got to at least include
them when you are discussing who are the greatest teams
of all time? The eighty six Celtics have to be
on that list. The ninety two Bowls, who I actually
think might be maybe the best of the Bulls teams
(19:11):
that finished off the first three peat. There's at least
an argument there. The two thousand Lakers, the first championship
with Shaq and Kobe, the twenty fifteen Warriors, which is
the first championship with Steph, the twenty seventeen Warriors, the
(19:34):
first championship with Stephan Durant, and then a couple teams.
One that gets kind of is a punchline, and the
other is an all time great team that ran up
against another all time great team. The punchline is the
seven MAVs, who lost in Round one after winning sixty
(19:55):
seven games to the We Believe Warriors. And the other
one is the twenty sixteen Spurs who just happened to
be it. I mean, that team was unbelievable. They got
clipped in round two by the twenty sixteen Thunder, who
then ran into the twenty sixteen Warriors, who then ran
(20:17):
into Pete Lebron James. But so to do this quickly,
teams to win sixty seven plus you have first year
Steph won a title, first year Stephan Kde won a
title together. You have the first year Shaq and Kobe
(20:39):
won a title. You have Jordan's Bulls the third time
they won a title, and the best Celtics team of
all time, the eighty six Celtics. Those are the sixty
seven win teams plus the two with that I just
mentioned that didn't win the title. The sixty eight win
teams are this year's Thunder. And then you add to
(20:59):
it the seventy three Celtics not you know, at a
disappointing playoffs, and then sixty seven six Ers with Wilt
won the title, and then sixty nine win teams Jordan's Bowls,
the fifth championship, the Laker team that had the thirty
three game winning streak in seventy two, the ninety six
(21:21):
Bulls won seventy two, and then the Warriors the seventy
three win Warriors. So that's the company they keep. So
there's one kind of hard piece of data, how many
games did you win? The other one is were you
blowing people out? And teams that finished the year with
(21:44):
a ten plus point differential? Eighties last year's Celtics and
then the eight Celtics, Kareem's Bucks in seventy one, the
Durant first year Durant Warriors, that other Warriors team the
(22:05):
first year they won the title, the Bowls a couple times,
and the Lakers in seventy two. The Thunder beaten teams
this year by almost thirteen points per game. So they
check both of the hard metric boxes. You then add
(22:27):
the kind of softer factors. How good was the league
in that time? I think the league's as talented as
it's ever been. What was their path to the finals
and to a championship? That one probably cuts against them
a bit. They are not going through legendary opponents en route,
(22:50):
and they won't face a legendary opponent in the finals.
They did, however, go through a legendary player in Joker
and that was a classic set game series. Another kind
of soft factor. Did they have an all time player
on their team all time? I don't know yet, but
(23:12):
the guy who had the best season this year and Shae,
Yeah they did. I mean, Shay was unbelievable in the
regular season, has been almost as good in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Would not have would not have an all time player
make it a better feat.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
It might make it more impressive, but it's hard to
argue when you're talking about the best single seasons in
NBA history, it's and I left out some of the
sixty six win teams and some of the best teams
ever were sixty six win teams. Lebron's Heat that had
the twenty seven game winning streak I mentioned earlier, the
(23:52):
eight Celtics, which were awesome. Those were the margin of victories.
I mentioned Kareem's Bucks that you know there are some
a couple Lakers teams, one with Magic, one with Kobe.
Oh those were sixty five, not sixty six. But it
would make it more impressive. Maybe demands, But when we're
talking about who the greatest teams of all time are,
(24:13):
and if we're trying to do the hypothetical, if they
were to match up against each other, right, you want
to be able to say, our guy can at least
kind of look eye to eye with your guy. And
if your guy is peak Wilt Chamberlain or peak Michael
Jordan or peak Larry Bird, and my guy is yeah,
(24:38):
Chauncey Billips and again. And I'm just picking a team
that won the title, even though they're not in the
all time team discussion. That's gonna be a harder argument
to make. Shay is making an argument that he's building
an all time resume. It's a weird one because of
how he started, and it was a slow progression, but
(24:59):
he's just got better and better and better every single year.
I so I am okay with saying this is an
all time single season. I am not okay with saying
this is an all time team because what the other
all time teams had was stacked accomplishments, you know, multiple finals, appearances,
(25:25):
multiple championships, and the teams kind of bleed together. But
single season it's that. But that then gets us to
the point you were making. And I understand Pacer fans maybe,
or Nick fans even or like, my god, you're acting
like they won the championship yesterday, and to that I
(25:46):
would say, no, I'm not. I actually acted like they
won the championship on Monday night, because to me, they did.
That was the That was the end of the competitive
portion of this year's NBA season. And that's not to
say the Pacers or the Knicks can't beat them in
a game. But when a team has home court and
(26:08):
that team beats people in the playoffs at home by
fifty one, nineteen, forty three, seven, thirty two, twenty six,
fifteen and thirty with one loss coming on a buzzer beater,
(26:34):
they're gonna win the championship when they also are a
team that can, if it were to happen, Demons deal
with injury better than any other team in the now.
They can't deal with an injury to Shay, but nobody
can lose their best player. They could, but they they
could lose JDub or Chet and still win the championship
(27:00):
much less lose what I mean, go ahead?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Oh no, yeah, I don't know. I feel like Cheed
is such a presence. Chet losing Check probably put them.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Oh, I think it would change them, but I wouldn't like,
I wouldn't write them off any of these other teams,
if they lost one of their three best guys, you
would basically just write them off. You couldn't do it
with this team because of how deep they are. So
I have and I'm not trying to give myself credit here,
(27:34):
I am trying to remind the audience. I guess I
was not one of the loud Thunder skeptics. Now. I
didn't pick them to win the championship because I thought
the Lakers could beat them. After I saw the Lakers
beat them in a game the Thunder wanted and then
the Lakers play them to a tie until Luca got
(27:55):
kicked out, and I was like, Okay, I think the
Lakers are the one team that can give them real
prime problems. Maybe Boston. But I thought the Thunder were
a legitimate championship caliber team all year, and the moment
the Lakers went out, I said, I think they're gonna
win the title. With all that said, I think the
(28:17):
dynasty talk is so silly, and I understand folks argument
is they are set up so well. And I will
just make the point that I made on Tuesday again.
We think every team almost is set up so well
(28:40):
when they're in the midst of winning, and to which
some people will reply, yeah, but those teams weren't as young.
That's true that the Bucks in twenty twenty one, or
the Nuggets in twenty twenty three, or even the Celtics
last year weren't as young. However, with the Bucks and
(29:01):
the Nuggets, we did feel like their best player was
in already in once they won the title, the historically
great conversation, and Shay isn't quite in that yet. Like
we thought, yes, this Thunder team's younger, but we thought
(29:23):
that Giannis and Joker in that moment were a tick
above where Shay is in this moment. And the other
argument people are going to make is yes, but the
nugget it's the for the Thunder, it's all that draft
capital that they have, And that is true, but it's
(29:45):
also a little misleading. So the the Thunder's draft capital
is more quantity than quality. So I'm I'm going to
go through it just too. And this is courtesy of
(30:06):
real GM to remind people what they have, because what
you're gonna see is it's a ton of stuff, and
it's a ton of stuff that theoretically they could use
in trades, but it's not like oh Man, that could
be the third pick of the draft. Okay, so this
(30:28):
year they have the fifteenth pick from Miami and the
twenty fourth pick from the Clippers, at least I think
fact checked me in the because I don't have this
year's pulled up. Fact check me in the doc if
I'm wrong about this year. But they the then next year,
what they have. They have Houston's pick next season protected
(30:55):
one through four, So Houston, we think Houston's going to
be quite good next year, so a late pick next year.
And then they have I want to make sure I
get this right, the Clippers pick next year. So I
(31:17):
think the Clippers showed us this year that they are
going to be at least a credible team, and so
are those are fine picks, but none of those appear
or feel like those are going to be, you know,
(31:39):
I lottery top ten picks, right. And then they have
Phillies pick next year potentially, and again they only get
two of these, So these are the best ones they
could get. Phillies pick if it falls outside of the
top four, and Utah's pick if it falls outside of
the top eight. The moral of the story is next
(32:00):
year they are going to have a bunch of extra picks,
and they all look like they are not going to
be lottery picks because Utah is the only team on
that list that is likely going to be in the lottery,
and Utah likely is going to be able to keep
their pick because it'll be in the top eight. In
twenty twenty seven, they again they get the Clippers pick,
(32:23):
and that's unprotected. Maybe that could be good. Maybe, and
Denver's pick, which, assuming Joker doesn't retire, is not going
to be that good. And in twenty twenty eight they
can swap with Dallas. Again, do we think Dallas, now
(32:46):
that they have Cooper Flag and Anthony Davis is there,
that that's going to be a top five pick? No,
And then that's really I think they have one more
Denver pick later, but again, unless we think Joker is
going to retire. So the point I'm making in a
somewhat convoluted fashion is it's a lot of stuff, but
(33:09):
it's not great stuff. Now the argument there would be demons. Yeah,
but they can package that stuff for a star. And
that then gets to to me the next interesting domino
for the Thunder, which is, yeah, are they going to
(33:30):
want to be expensive? Are they going to want to
for the first time in franchise history be a big
luxury tax butt up against the apron type of team.
And my answer to that question is I don't see
why they would now. And you can say, well, they
(33:51):
want to check right, correct, right, They didn't want to
pay it then, And you can be like, well, but
now they won a championship. That could cut either way.
Maybe you would be like, they want a championship now
they just want to win, win, win. They also want
to be like, we want a championship without having a
super expensive team, so why do we need one? And
(34:13):
so it is a different NBA guys, and it's a
different NBA. Also in this regard the onl like the
guys who have reeled off a bunch are guys who
(34:36):
are top ten all time players. The one guy who
is pretty consensus outside of the top ten who reeled
off even two is Isaiah Thomas, and he's firmly in
the top twenty, but outside the top ten. So Joker
(35:00):
would have checked those boxes. Little Unlucky some Jamal Murray's injuries,
you know, Jannis could have potentially little Unlucky, uh didn't
have you know, this type of pick Bounty though, to
be fair in Milwaukee, to make up for some of
those mistakes. And I'm not saying Shay is not Shaye.
(35:22):
I said all year was the MVP. But it is
surprising to me how many people who a month ago
were quite convinced the Celtics were about to reel off
a bunch of championships are now convinced the Thunder are
(35:44):
about to reel off a bunch of championships. And so
I you know too long, didn't listen all time single
season team. Yes, set up pretty well for the future. Yes,
going to win this championship without a doubt. Yes, ready
(36:10):
to pencil them in for multiple titles. No, So that's
where I land on Oklahoma City. They will be in
the mix for years to come, but as a lot
of teams can attest, in the mix doesn't really buy
(36:30):
you anything in the modern NBA
Host
Nick Wright
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