Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Teleforce Productions and I Heart Radio presents wheel Woman Confessions
of a Getaway Driver. Yeah, so you were hiding out
in Rochester while the mafia was on the verge of
an all out war, and you mentioned that Sammy was
at the center of it. Can you elaborate on what
(00:22):
the period of time was like. Well, it really all
goes back to the hit on Jimmy the Hammer Mas Sorrow.
Though no one knew it at the time, it was
the beginning of the end for organized crime in Rochester.
It's so distrust which created a string of murders, and
things only got worse when Bill Mahoney came on the scene.
(00:42):
Like I said, he was crooked and he had the
bad guys on the run. He was playing them all
against one another, and no one knew how to trust anymore.
His goal was to destroy the mafia and what he
thought of as his city, but he wasn't above using
the mafia to do it. I was right when I
saw Al Decanzio in his office. Mahoney was sneaking al
out of jail regularly blatantly breaking the rules. But Mahoney
(01:05):
was hell bent on doing whatever was needed to accomplish
his personal ambition, and Al was more than happy to talk.
I was a strong arm for the mob, and when
Frank Valenti was in power, Al had acted as one
of his bodyguards. He knew the goods on everybody. But
then after Valenti's unfortunate departure, Sammy Ginello took control of
(01:28):
the city's underworld activities. This was the position for which
Sammy had striven his entire life. Blood flowed during that takeover,
but nothing like the war that was to come during
Mahoney's period of influence, because no matter what, sam would
not let go of what he had worked so hard for.
The only way his position would be taken was over
(01:49):
his dead body, which was how it ended up working out.
(02:42):
When did you learn that Sammy g had been sent
to prison? I hadn't been in l a long, but
I called home to check in on how things were.
When I learned he had been indicted for Jimmy's murder.
I was struggling in Los Angeles and thought maybe Joe
had left or things had calmed down enough for me
to go home. Turn out it was quite the opposite.
I decided to tough it out in l A and
(03:04):
make it work. Because it wasn't just Sammy, it was
also Jeane Di Francesco and a few others who were
facing trial. At one point, I called Sammy to check
in and learned that he had an alibi in Florida
during the time of the murder. But apparently Mahoney got
winto that and sent some detectives down there to threaten
her and her family. Sammy's confidence had began to falter.
(03:24):
How did the people back home take the trial? All
of Sammy's loyal supporters rallied to his cause with a
thousand dollar or played dinners to raise money for his defense.
And he was guilty as charged. Everyone knew it, but
the point was they didn't have the evidence. Mahoney created it.
It was amazing to hear how many of the tough
guys were turning state's evidence. Law enforcement was operating in
(03:46):
the same way as the mob. I followed along from
Afar and hearing how Mahoney fabricated evidence and coerced his
detectives to lie in the stand, causing the murder charges
to stick. His philosophy was I leave anything to chance.
The result of the perjury would put Sammy, jan Jello
and four other top crime figures of the Rochester Syndicate
(04:07):
behind bars. What was the reaction? Like in Rochester, the
good guys and the bad guys had always been in cahoots.
Having relatives on the police force, I grew up knowing
quite a few of the good guys. Most of the
ones I knew weren't paid to close their eyes, but
they did look the other direction. But everyone loved Sammy,
including some of the cops. They knew sam was getting
(04:28):
the shaft. But in the much larger ongoing battle between
law enforcement and organized crime, the victory of the good
guys in this case made history. Agencies from all over
the country sent congratulations. I heard that the President of
the United States personally called Bill Mahoney to acknowledge his
achievement for getting the Rochester Syndicate off the streets. But
(04:51):
they weren't locked up for long, Nope. It was only
a matter of four months before the steel bars slid
open and freedom was granted to the five convict to murderers.
It was an incredibly bizarre twist of events. As I'm
sure you know, the FBI felt slighted that their participation
was minimal in the whole ordeal, which was because Mahoney
(05:11):
closed the door on them whenever he could find a
legal way to do it. They were suspicious and started
the ball rolling with the investigations into Bill Mahoney and
the Rochester Police Department. To no one's surprised, they were
found guilty of perjury and fabricating evidence and traded places
with the mobsters behind bars. Even the people whose lives
were never touched by the mob were actually cheering for
(05:34):
the bad guys. Right or wrong, everyone is entitled to
a fair trial, even the mob right right. But that
was only the beginning of another wave of violence. See
as little time as Sammy spent in prison, it was
still too long. Those left behind couldn't hold afford alone.
(05:54):
The big guns weren't around for the reinforcement they needed.
Frank Valenti's old pals were back in the streets, and
they weren't interested in stepping back. Once Sammy and his
guys went free, it became the talk of the town.
The newspapers labeled the new guys the B Team, and
Sammy G and his soldiers were called the A Team.
Nothing was really accomplished with all of Mahoney's efforts. Organized
(06:17):
crime will always be. Did you talk to Sammy during
this time? Of course, M hello, it's me Sammy as
(06:39):
a land of fruits and nuts. It's fine. How are you?
I'm so glad you're out of there. Yeah, now until
they find another bullshit reason to locked me up. So
I finally got away from Joe. Huh, took you long enough?
I know, I know. It feels good different this time,
but guys still worry you'll work his way back in.
(07:00):
I wish I could come home and see you, but no,
you stay where you are and you call me if
he gives you any more trouble. I mean, all you
ever had to do was say the word how are
things at home? You know, there's no respect like they
used to be. Used to be. The Federal always trying
to fuck you, but at least they were buff bored
about it. And even there was a difference of opinion
(07:20):
between the cruise, there was a code, a united front.
It's all gone to hell. It sounds like everyone's on
your side. They know what money did to you. No
one's happy with it. Some people wish it was better
at locking me up. What you mean Valante's guys, those
cock suckers trying to take back over while I was
in the joint, and my fucking guys let him. I
(07:40):
got the gambling rings of any machines that's trucking. I
mean even the city construction contracts going into the air pockets. Now,
oh yeah, I've been reading about that. They're calling them
the B team. Damned straight to the B team, and
I'm gonna do whatever it takes remind them of his boss.
You'd be careful, I am, but you gotta play to win, kid.
You gonna show me're not afraid how you lost it all. Okay, Look,
(08:05):
when things come down for the both of you, you
come home, We'll have a night out like the old dings.
I'd like that, and I gotta run. Thanks for checking up.
(08:33):
That was the last time I'd speak to Sammy. I
know why. I didn't know it at the time. I
had a feeling that was going to be the case.
Were you worried about him, Yes, because he believed he
could step right back where he had left off. The
way he saw it, that was the correct order of things,
(08:54):
and he was willing to fight for it. But I
knew that there would be a cost. There always is.
He did manage to take back control of all the
gambling clubs, but then his enemies started to bomb them
one by one. Same with the vending machines. We're talking
about guys who would rather torch things than let someone
else have it. And then there were a series of
(09:14):
hits on Sammy's life. Was he scared of one of
them being successful? Maybe he was, he didn't show it.
The one everyone always talked about was when Dominic Sonny Celestino,
a B Team mobster, placed a bomb in a snow
bank he knew Sammy would walk by. Sonny hit in
the trunk of his car and used a radio device
(09:36):
with the antenna extended through a little hole drilled in
the trunk to set it off stopid sons of bitches,
but it only made snow rain down on the street.
Kids ran out to play in it. Sammy was propelled
(09:58):
into the air, but walked away without a scratch, laughing.
He made sure people always saw him with a smile,
that he wasn't worried. Did he change his lifestyle at
all during those times? No, If anything, he became more bold,
more brazen. He refused to keep a low profile, living
the flashy style that he had always known. He put
(10:21):
his desire to stay in power over protecting his life.
But that's not to say he was reckless. He never
walked alone, always accompanied by his two trusted bodyguards, Tommy
Taylor and Tom Torpy. But sam made a show of
power by being blatantly visible, and that was his style.
He also had police protection. Sure, we're good. That did him.
(10:45):
Every time I called home, I'd hear about someone else
who had been killed. I knew it was just a
matter of time, but I refused to think about it.
And then I got the call, Sammy had been murdered.
Who did you think did it? When you heard first?
I wanted to put the pieces together before I jumped
(11:07):
to conclusions. There was certainly no lack of suspects. I
immediately made some calls and spoke to some people who
had seen Sammy in different places during that fateful night.
In my mind, I traced the last steps of Sammy's life.
M Sammy Gee strutted into the packed club car bar
(11:31):
on Lyle Avenue with the confidence of the don that
he was. His bodyguards, Tommy Taylor and Tom Torpy followed
closely behind. They were his eyes as he walked through
the crowd, shaking all the extended hands. An outsider would
have thought the president had entered the room. Good to
see you back, Sammy. It's Frio's rap Baston. Hey looking good, Sammy.
(11:54):
You keep your hands for yourself. Hey, school School, It's
cool Scotch Sammy. Thank you. Two detectives sat at a
corner table watching the scene, wishing they could become invisible.
Sammy saw them and coolly looked in their direction. After
(12:17):
finishing his drink. Sammy was aunty. Hey, let's blow this
place already. Let's see what's happened on the other side
of town. Sam you're gonna put on that bulletproof vesta wood.
Come on, when's the line of my suit? Let's go
ok suit, Sammy. Bar Outside the bar, Taylor and Torpy
(12:46):
gave the car a quick inspection before getting it all clear. Boss.
People can't see you inspecting the car like that, Tommy,
but find a most subtle way to do it. You
got it, Let's go. They drove down lyle Avenue, deciding
(13:11):
where to go next. Should we hit ab Alexander's no,
it's not as much fun as when he was. Sess,
you're right, not that I cared for Joe, but he
knew how to run a joint. Yeah, and don't forget
Jimmy Mastro's brother ones. And though I don't need to
see that slimy little creep, let's sit. Yeah, let's do it.
(13:32):
They made a brief appearance at the seven forty seven
Club before moving on to the Encore Club, where there
was gambling in the back room. They didn't notice the
light colored Lincoln that followed in the shadows two blocks behind,
with its lights off. As they hopped from bar to bar,
a ritual Sammy miss while he was behind bars. Hey two,
(13:54):
untre it on black? Hey do on these good job, Pammy,
all of it. You warned it. Come on, guys, let's go.
They walked out into the early morning towards their last
(14:16):
stop of the night, Ben's Cafe Society. Ben's a place
of many fond memories, laughter, and even a few tears.
It was one of my favorite meeting spots. I can
(14:36):
picture it all perfectly. The tables, the piano bar, the
smiles Sammy encountered as he elegantly glided to the table
in the back corner, which always sat empty, awaiting his arrival,
with three glasses of scotch sitting in front of their seats. Hey, salut,
(15:01):
Hey Sammy, Sammy, seemmy, let me get you guys a
drink high? Yeah, sure, thanks? You know? Little did they
all know. While people approached the table to greet the king,
a B Team assassin crept across the parking lot with
an explosive device. He approached the buick and set to work.
He knew he had to be fast. Twice that evening
(15:23):
he'd been forced to abort. This was his last chance.
Glad to see you against Sam. I'm rooting for you.
We all are, Sammy, Thanks fellas. Thanks See we got
the good will around, so why aren't we back on top?
(15:43):
Just took back the gambling joint. I want the construction contracts.
You never should have let them slip while I was gone, Sam,
they killed half our guys, and we're gonna bull those
them back down. We did it before we could do
it again. I'll drink to that. Yeah, what do you say, boys?
(16:05):
We didn't after I was joined. Before we call it
a night. We might be stretching it then. Come on, Uh,
I'm missed being out on the town all right. Where
do you want to go? Let's drive around see how
things look. Yeah, no, no, no no, no, no, we're no no,
(16:30):
no inspecting this time. We can't afford to look weak.
Give me the keys, But Sam, it's safe for if
I drive. They've been trying to get me for months.
I haven't even gotten close. Plus I'm the team still.
Remember you can't touch nothing with wheels on it. You
come on, let's go, Tom, you're riding back. Hey, either
(16:54):
you've seen our office of friends tonight. Ah? Maybe they
finally got board falling us around here today. How they're
supposed to be protecting you, Sam, I'll never know. Hey,
come on and probably making a run to the donut shop,
and don't sweat. We don't need him. Maybe they all
had just one too many and they were no longer
paying as much attention to detail. Maybe they felt like
(17:15):
they'd already passed another night safely. Nothing else could happen.
Sam opened his car door and casually got in, sitting
comfortably in the drive a seat. Taylor and Torby had
just opened their doors and begun to enter when Sammy
placed his key in the ignition Jesus, who was that
(17:37):
that Sammy's somebody? The glass and debris shot out over
a hundred forty foot radiance. The explosion through Taylor and
Torpy thirty ft from the vehicle. The blast could be
heard three miles away on South Avenue. The fireman with
(18:00):
the first to arrive. Torpi and Taylor were walking around
days and in shock, but otherwise unhurt. Flames from the
burning car hid Sammy from the firefighters. They extinguished the flames,
but two long minutes passed before he was visible. He
was lying face up on the driver's side, motionless, and
his eyes were wide open, very little blood, although his
(18:21):
right leg was completely blown off and the left one
was hanging by mere strands of flesh. A few cuts
and bruises marked his face, but his upper body was intact.
The fireman pulled Sammy from the smoldering wreckage and placed
him on the stretcher and carried him into the ambulance.
The morning crowd watched in horror, and then he moved.
He was still alive. He tried to raise his head
(18:44):
to look at his legs, but he didn't have the strength.
Who did this to you, Sammy? But Sammy couldn't answer.
He raised his right hand, extended his middle finger, and
then closed his eyes. M No one moved until the
(19:12):
sound of the siren could no longer be heard, and
even then no one was anxious to start their cars.
An hour later, at the Genesee hospital, Sammy g was
pronounced dead. But you know most of this, yes, but
(19:46):
they never charged anyone with the murder. Who did you
think was responsible? Well, everyone thought it was the cops.
And it didn't escape my mind that a series of
coincidences made the events of that night possible. It really
like an inside job, because ever since his release from prison,
Sammy had been under constant police surveillance, and it only
(20:09):
increased with the escalating threats on his life. Typically, Rochester
police investigators Gustapril and Jerry Luciana would have been nearby,
as they had been night after night for weeks wherever
Sammy's car was they were. They were tired and had
(20:29):
often asked for a night off, but they were never
given one until that night. Dupriel asked who would replace them,
but never got an answer. No one knows why. Suddenly
their request to take a break was approved, and at
the time of the explosion there was not a cop insight.
Apparently they were all called to a raid across town,
but no one was ever busted that night. Do you
(20:51):
think the April and Luciano were involved. Maybe not them directly,
but their superior or could have orchestrated it. Like I said,
one too many coincidences. Plus they had plenty of motive.
Sammy really did a number on their public image. It
wasn't his fault, it was Mahoney's. And even though he
brought it all on himself, there is no doubt that
(21:13):
Mahoney blames Sammy for smearing his reputation. But at that
point Mahoney wasn't officially on the force. Doesn't mean he
didn't have influence. They were still all on the same team.
Everyone with a uniform's reputation was marred when Mahoney was
charged with civil rights violations, and from what I know
about cops, I wouldn't put it past a single one
of them. You know, if Mahoney had just played by
(21:40):
the rules, he would have gone down in history as
a great cop. The thing is, cops have the power
to play Hitler if they choose to do so. I
have first hand experience of seeking help from a cop
who had been bought off, and I learned the hard
way to work within my own world. If I had
a problem to solve anyway. Whether or not they were
direct responsible, their negligence was a factor. Who else do
(22:04):
you think it could have been? You're forgetting there was
a war. Sammy's murder was a way to turn it
around for the B Team to stay in power. But
unfortunately for everyone, it was far from the end. The
bloody mess only continued to escalate, and not many survived.
Do you think Frankie could have had anything to do
with it? I suppose he could have. Frankie had ties
(22:29):
to Valentie's side, and I know he'd taken some lives,
But Frankie was dealing with other messes at the time
and was out of the city. But Frankie blames Sammy
forgetting you involved with the mob, didn't he? He did,
but he also knew I made plenty of those decisions myself.
When we spoke at Sammy's funeral, any suspicion I may
have had went away. Frankie respected the rules of the game.
(23:06):
Hey you are Georgie girl. Frankie, it's good to see you,
even under the circumstances. How are you holding up? Oh, Frankie,
it's so awful. I know people are getting killed left
and right. But I just hate that it had to
be Sammy. He got what was coming to him. I
don't mean he deserved to die, but honey, he knew
it was around the corner. You play a certain way
(23:27):
long enough, it catches up with you. That's why I
never wanted to involved. Well, you can't blame Sammy. We
had our issues, but you know, at the end of
the day, I respected Sammy. It wasn't someone that I
necessarily like to agree with, but he had style and
class like a lot of these goomba's and I know
you loved him. Thanks Frankie. What was Sammy's funeral like?
(23:56):
It was like feeding time at the zoo. Everyone was
cocking around, playing at their grief. Guys who hated Sammy,
who had been hurt by him, who wanted to hurt him.
Probably whoever did it was there too. Was Joe there
as well? He was We put our issues aside, bigger
(24:19):
things where it play. In fact, everyone seemed to draw
some sort of temporary truths. Rightful enemies sat beside each
other and paid their respects. How did Joe take the news?
I can't say he was upset. No love lost between
those two, as you told us Sammy tried to kill
(24:40):
Joe once. Do you think this was Joe's payback? I
wouldn't put it past Joe, but so many years had
passed since that night. It was unlike him to calculate
a plan like that so long after the fact. Joe
was all impulse. If he was gonna kill Sammy, it
would have been back then. Plus Joe was too scared
(25:00):
to set footback in Rochester at that time. It would
have really had to been worth it. Why do you
think no one was ever charged in Sammy's murder? Because
Sammy had too many enemies that would benefit from his
death on both sides of the law. No one wanted
to look too hard into it, and if the news
came out, there would be some inevitable form of retaliation,
(25:21):
and there was enough of that already. Why all these questions?
Why reopened the case all these years later? We've been
investigating various police branches for corruption and came across some
previously redacted information. Unfortunately I can't share that with you,
but we have reasons to do our due diligence and
(25:42):
see if we can finally find out who is to
blame Sammy's murder was a big turning point for the
mob in upstate New York. I see, yeah, it was
the end of an era in my life as well.
Sammy was the first person who opened my horizon something
beyond small town gossip and my first connection into that world.
(26:06):
But with his death, the cornerstone of my underworld involvement
had fallen. I would miss my friend, but I always
knew there was a ticking clock on our time together.
I mean, you don't get to where Sammy did and
die of old age, and so with no one keeping
me on the inside, it was time to move on,
(26:27):
and what came next was just as big of an adventure.
Wheel Woman is written by Lars Jacobson and Sabrina Jagulin
and directed by Sabrina Jagulin, Produced by Lars Jacobson and
Sabrina Jagulin, Executive produced by Georgia Darante and Noel Brown
for I Heart Radio. Wheel Woman stars Lilia Simonton as Georgia,
(26:50):
with additional performances by Tanner Beard, Zachary Webber, Simon Jagulin,
Jase Mullins, Nick Williams, Gabe Greenspan, Dylan mc cullum, Garrett Bear, Nora, Garrett, Duncan, Kaladein,
Victoria Foyt, Max Georgie, Mariah Bass, and Max Jacobe. Edited
by Chris Childs, with sound design and theme music by
(27:12):
Chris Child's. Adapted from the book The Company She Keeps
by Georgia Duranty wheel Woman. Confessions of a Getaway Driver
is an I heart Radio production. For more podcasts from
I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.