December 16, 2024 • 37 mins
Too often miners are painted almost as caricatures - as conservative, ignorant, poor, depressed, and selfish. The reality is that miners often go unheard. Coming from families of multi-generational coal miners is a core part of who Danny, Terry, and Charles are. But what they’re most proud of is being in a union.
From their childhoods spent playing in the Appalachian mountains, to their first day inside the mines, to a career-defining strike, they paint us a picture of their lives over decades. Today, they continue to fight to be seen in their community, and by our nation at large. In our interview, they each get candid about regrets they’ve had, lessons they’ve learned, and hopes they hold onto for the future of West Virginia. I went into this conversation hoping to find working class solidarity, and came away feeling even more empowered than I had imagined.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Coal miners are proud people, and all we've ever asked
for is to be traded brute and give Noalds day's
work for knowledge day's pay.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome to when You're Invisible. My name is Maria Fernanda Vies,
but I know not everyone can roll their ours, so
it's fine to call me Maria. When You're Invisible is
my love letter to the working class and others who
are seemingly invisible in our society. I hope to build
a community here that will inspire you to have generous
(00:28):
conversations with others that are different from you, conversations that
might help you see life in an entirely different way.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
So my name is Danny Wood. I'm the financial secretary
of UMWA Local fourteen forty mike ONEm, West Virginia.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Danny is a retired coal miner in West Virginia. Today
he works for the United Mine Workers of America, which
he calls the UMWA. That's their union.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I'm a third generation coal modern twenty four years in
the minds.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Coal mining is part of the grand mythology of the
United States. Miners are painted as the quintessential hard working Americans,
But for someone who didn't come from cold country and
has no ties to it. It feels like something out
of a storybook. It's such an old industry that the
working conditions and what these miners experience seem out of
(01:26):
place in our modern world. But the job and the
life that comes with it are very real, even if
we don't hear about it enough. Too often, these workers
are painted almost as caricatures, as conservative, ignorant, poor, depressed,
and selfish. I feel like a lot of stories I
(01:47):
see about this industry are about how coal companies disrespect
their workers and how miners feel desperate and left behind.
I wanted to know the truth and hear it from
the miners themselves. I went in hoping to find working
class solidarity and came away feeling even more empowered than
(02:08):
I imagined.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Minors has always struggled for everything we've got, We've had
five to five.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Danny is a first miner I got in contact with
through the West Virginia Mine Wars Museum. Shout out to
the folks there who are working to preserve and share
the history of coal miners in America. At first, I
thought I'd just be interviewing Danny, but he insisted on
sharing the spotlight with others in his community.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
And today I have with my former financial secretary and
also an international UMWA representative, Charles Dixon.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Hi, Hi, Charles, good, how are you doing. I'm great,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
And also I have with my UMWA Local fourteen forty
member Terry Steel. He is also a political compact chairman
of our local union.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Hid Hi, Terry, Good to meet you any Charles and
Terry are all retired coal miners who work for the
local union. It struck me right away how generously they
introduced themselves and made space for each other.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Here's Charles as coal miners that belonged to the greatest
union in this country.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
And the history will tell you that we are extremely
proud that the unions in this country pretty much built
the naval flash in this country. And we are and
have always been the foundation of the labor gaion.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
The labor history of states like West Virginia is incredible.
For example, the Battle of Blair Mountain was in West
Virginia in nineteen twenty one. It was the second largest
armed vault in the United States after the Civil War.
It was led by a coalition of American and immigrant
workers for several days. Coal miners literally fought for protections.
(03:55):
They laid claim on the mines and had finely clashes
with the police and companies. This uprising got national attention.
It's one of the money instances where coal miners have
fought for their safety and livelihoods, and resistance was necessary
because coal mining is an industry where you see extreme exploitation.
(04:17):
From the eighteen hundreds until the early to mid nineteen hundreds,
miners were controlled by the coal companies in their everyday lives,
even outside of work. Here's Danny Moost.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Little communities like that had their own coal companies and
at the time these coal companies was in existence and
had these coal company houses for their employees. They paid
with script. They didn't use the American money. The miners
were paid with script and they had spend it at
the company store. Each company had their own company store,
(04:51):
and the miners had to buy their wrong tools to
work with, they had to buy their wrong explosives. They
paid the company doctor two dollars per month. They had
to see the company doctor. Everything went through the company.
The company controlled their labs. And you're talking about somebody
being in bondage.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
This sounds like something out of a dystopian sci fi novel.
But this was happening while Danny's grandparents and parents were alive.
And while our three guests are white, I want to
acknowledge that more than half of the people who lived
in coal camps were black. Many historians directly linked these
camps to our country's legacy of slavery. These kinds of
(05:29):
camps were eventually disbanded, but the infrastructure remained. Miners like
Danny still lived in the homes that made up these camps.
The only difference was that they weren't technically owned by
the companies anymore. Yet, the scars of coal camps are
still felt economically and communally.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I grew up in the little community not far from here,
a little community called Mary Michael Wish Regia. Of course,
we all grew up in what we called cold camps.
Most of the housing was built by the cold companies
for the work. Back in the day. People were still
living when I grew up, no co com heuse and
we had coal fire for heat, burnt coal, and the
(06:08):
cold companies, even then my time, still dominated everything. They
was the dominant source of employment and to make a
living feder kids, people would work like a dog.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Even when the coal companies stopped running these towns, locals
didn't have savings and opportunities for upward mobility. That's because
they didn't even have US dollars to their names, so
revitalizing the area wasn't a real possibility. The stranglehold of
these companies remained, and the living conditions were still poor.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Growing up in a cold camp. When I grew up,
we had outside torrents. We didn't have run of water
and house. I was about fourteen or fifteen years old.
We packed their water and drew it up well. TV
consisted of an ant tanna. Outside was if you were lucky,
maybe one, two or three at the most. There's no
such things as cell phone. We didn't have a river
(07:04):
pham up in the house until I was a teenager,
and it was what was called a party line. Everybody
had a sicker ring, be like a long ring, a
short ring, and just different rings, and you might pick
the phone that want to use and somebody be on
the phone.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Danny can look back and laugh about how he and
his neighbors shared a phone line and his family of
thirteen shared an outdoor toilet, but it is striking that
the workers literally powering our country could be living like this,
especially in the fifties, the golden age of the American dream.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Let's living kids. We ate before we got an extra
We learned at early age to get up and work
and make money.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
They grew up fast because of their economic realities. Yet
there were moments of beauty, and all the men shared
an appreciation for the bright spots of their childhoods. Like Charles, I.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Grew up in the Siskies as you got glad, and
we had three toys. One was the Appalatric Mountains, which
we played in pretty much every day, squirrel hotting and
building cabins and things like that. And we also had
our swimming pool was the tug River. And the third
(08:16):
toy we had was a hell of imagination. Yep, we
didn't have no money to buy toys. We'd cut of
some ten foot long stick and trim it up and
strand it and colon the horse. That's how I love that.
I rode up in the best part of this big
wide world and rode up with the best people ever
(08:38):
in Georgia, big time.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
The scenery sounds of breathtaking and gorgeous. There's such a
stark contrast between this natural majesty and the ricketty homes
and talents. Picturing all this space and sky, I can't
help but to think about the years these men would
later spend underground, away from all these things they like.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Here's Terry lived in a little old place called Matter
up in the head of make Creek. My great grandfather
actually owned probably about one hundred acres where we lived at,
but he sold the mineral rights off back in the
early part of the when they went through here and
(09:21):
was buying up all the minerals in the first part
of the century here, So we become coal miners instead
of the owners of coal mines.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Wow. Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
What most people did. I'm a fourth generation coal miner.
I remember the day I started because I started mining
coal on my birthday. Wow, aid the twenty seventh, nineteen
seventy one. I worked twenty six years underground.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
They all come from families of multi generational coal miners.
They knew that they were destined for this work from
an early age. Being a kid and having to work
is something a lot of us can relate to. Yet well,
many of us spend our early jobs minding encounter or babysitting.
These men went into the belly of the earth and
(10:09):
did intense, dangerous physical labor.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
My grandpa got killed not before I was born. I
never got to see my grandpa. My dad all but
lost morning in his arms. Me and my brother, we
were looking enough to survive without very many disabling and grey.
I started in the coal mines in nineteen seventy war
March or nineteen seventy one. I worked in these underground
(10:35):
coal mines, probably in thirty inch cold for about the
first fourteen years.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Charles mentions the inches and the thickness of the coal.
Just know it affects the conditions and what to expect
when you're working, whether you're in a claustrophobic space or
a mine as fast as an underground cave. You're expected
to adjust and to just get used to it.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
We worked in low cove, what they call loco. It's
on the average of thirty inches and you could go
in like flat on your back and look up and
you wouldn't have to look no farther than about a
foot to fourteen inches and you'll see a mountain over
top of you. It was like working in a call
(11:18):
for all day long.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
If you don't come from like a mining town or
mining area. I think a lot of us don't like
we have an idea of what that might look like.
But can do you remember, like the first time, the
first day you went in, and what that was like?
Can you describe the like what it's like to go
in and like your feelings around that.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
That's pretty easy and scriptum, I'm scared as.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
He well, Danny laughs through his fear. Losing your life
or limb is a very real possibility when you work
in a mine. His job was truly dangerous, and the
first day is something a miner never forgets.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Terry and I were brother Lowe's. He got me my
first job in the coal mines, and I actually got
him the last job he had, so I paid him back.
I was physically fitting in good shape. I remember I
was with Terry working that night and I told him
I was in a real good shape. I said, why
didn't keep up to you? I'd keep up to you,
and you're not going to out work me. That man's pride,
(12:18):
that ego kicked in. He about kill me. I was
used to this. Here I am all being over and
doubled and trying to walk, just duck walk or trying
to crawl. And I never did tell him what you
probably already know it. But that first ship up kill me. Then.
I don't remember exactly what it was, but he said,
I'm gonna sit you down here, man, I gotta go somewheres.
(12:39):
So he set me down. I was by myself, and
he said I'll be right back. Just sit there and
don't move. So I hear all this creaking and this
water dripping block on movies, you've heard water dripping, and
it's double was loud in the coal mines because the
echo and stuff. I hear stuff rolling and falling. I
was scared, but I was determined to succeed for my
(13:00):
family because the benefits and the paying sluff. But it's
tough when you first started.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Danny may have survived his first day, but some literally
don't survive it, and many mentally you're not able to continue.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
A lot of people don't even make it through a
full shift because they are clost your boat and their
scared stuff. So I've actually saw that when people would
as soon as the light would bathe and the light
was out of sight, they would pay it and you'd
have to take them back out. But the first week
will determine. It'll make your breaking. You'll know what's in
that first week if you're going to make it off.
(13:37):
You get used to hold. It's a whole different environment.
Give you an example. You can turn your cab lamp
off and you can put your hand I almost touch
your nose and you can't see anything. It's totally total darkness.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
In such an intense environment, Charles says, they learned to
have each other's backs.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
We're for the most part like fact. I mean, we
played together as kids, and as we got old enough
to work in the mines, we worked pretty much at
the same mines together. So we've probably coal miners, especially
Umwa memory cold miners. We spend probably more time with
(14:15):
each other than we did with our families.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Well, they had a strong sense of camaraderie. That doesn't
mean that this job often or even ever felt fulfilling.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
You know, we were the number one job in the
country for ever insofar as the most diagnous workplace.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Yeah, but what I hate most about it is the
cold company, just the uncurring that they have for the
people that gave their lives.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Yeah, for them.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
After the break we're going to talk in depth about
the career defining battles these men fought against the coal companies.
Welcome back to when you're invisible. Here's the thing about
working as a coal miner, Danny says, no matter how
much you do, the coal companies don't care about you.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
They've always been able to get the coal miner. We've
always had a fight. They tried to take her pension,
they tried to take their health care, and it's always
a constant fight the cold companies. Although you want to day,
you're just another to them. They don't care about you.
Back in the hand loading days before they had a union,
a pony or a mule was more valuable to a
cold company than what the man was. They'd tell the me,
(15:28):
we can get another man to replace you, but we
can't get a good pony or mule.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
This way of thinking is insane. To openly say that
someone's life is worth less than that of an animal
involves a level of cruelty and apathy. To not fear
or face repercussions for that kind of blatant disrespect speaks
to the level of power companies have. The biggest source
(15:52):
of protection for workers is the union, as Charles states.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
You're not a Mountain Workers of America union does more
than the industry does itself to try and protect coal
mining jobs get Today, these co companies fight us tooth
and nail to keep us from organizing, yeah, and to
keep us from getting laws passed to protect our lives.
(16:19):
And we do more to keep their industry alive than
they do for themselves. They have absolutely no respect at
all for us and the people we are. And there's
not a harder working group of people in this country.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
The nineteen fifties were the golden age of union power.
Unions enforced safety regulations, ensured pension and workers' comp and
made sure workers were granted rights as simple as a
lunch break. Even at their peak, there were still battling
companies who wanted to cut costs at all costs. Today,
(16:55):
companies are still union busting, and unfortunately unions have laws strength.
Over time, many economic forces, laws and forms of corruption
have hurt unions. For West Virginia coal miners, an important
part of this trend can be traced to the strike
of nineteen eighty four. Danny, Terry and Charles were all there.
(17:19):
Here's Charles.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
You find your cell phone strike like we did in
eighty four, and they bought all the local politicians off.
You're fighting the state police day in, day out. You
got the national Labor Relations for it. That's got your
reduced down the horse, three or four pickets on a
pick behind. It's dangerous to get out there because they
don't got the local judges to give all the damn
(17:41):
truck drivers a gount forget to carry a gun on you.
Is a legal system that's dead against us too. It's
not like we ain't got enough to have the fight.
At coal Burns with pockets, they stacked the deck pretty
good against us.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
This strike was focused on at Massy, the most notorious
of the West Virginia coal companies. The CEO of Massy
was Don Blinkenship, and he was dead set on union busting.
It was his strategy for increasing the company's profits.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Under Don Blackship, he came in had no coal mine
experience far as I know. He was accountant. Want to help.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Yes, made four hundred times more than the miner operator
in his career, but.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
They devised the way they could make more money for
their board of directors. He'd get rid of our health
care he'd get rid of yingion, He'd get rid of
our pension, playing oldest stuff. Black Hawk I was on
strike against Massy. His community was greatly divided because of
Massy Cold.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
It sounds like with how rooted you are in community,
like your neighbors are your friends and everyone around you,
you know, so like what is that like to have
someone cross a picket line like and have that division start.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
We figured out they didn't give a damn about us,
and they didn't give a damn Butcher seal or they
would do that.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
This is what's a big idea. Danny just hit us
with people in the community crossed the picket line. This
surprised me. Even though this community is so rooted in
this industry, the strike was deeply divisive. I can only
imagine the feeling of betrayal from the people you've known
all your life. This has had lasting effects until today
(19:23):
it's become every man for themselves. The community isn't united,
and the union has lost a lot of its power locally.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And with what MASSI had done to this community, this
community has went downhill since that strike my opinion, and
it costs the must division and MASSI was not interested
in keeping the community going.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It was not in Massy's interest to unite people. Danny says.
They just wanted to use the community for their coal,
and once it was gone, they'd move on to the
next area, leaving the town without resources and work. But
to get what they wanted, they acted like they cared.
They made gestures to support the community and get people
(20:06):
on their side.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
To get the community to strap, they put our conditions
in school systems, helped create football baseball fields just to
get community sports. They know what they were doing.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
On top of that, Massy gave out Christmas gifts and
fruit baskets. As nice as these things seemed, they were
just for show. This was all part of the plan
to get rid of benefits, healthcare, and safety regulations. A
community shouldn't have to choose between things like football fields
and infrastructure versus pensions and protections. Unfortunately, though Terry tells
(20:42):
us that Massi's plan worked.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
We were handed something that we kind of pissed away
our generation did, and that was a union.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
The effects of poverty and the appeal of seeing immediate
change swede people. They sided with Massy. Many people chose
to work for Massie under non union contracts, and now
many companies avoid hiring union workers. Danny, Terry, Charles and
their fellow strikers lost work because of this. At points
(21:14):
they even had to take non union jobs to make
against meat.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Here's Charles, it's.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Common knowledge that if you worked at a non union mind,
it was a lot lot unsafer than what it was
working at a union. Mine statistics show that, and that
was a big reason why these companies, especially Massy, wanted
rid of the union so they could get rid of
all the all the mining laws that they had because
(21:41):
it was nobody there to enforce those. They know, the
men were too scared to enforce them themselves because the
didn't get fired. Tyke en force them to take short
cuts and increase production. But at the end of the day,
when you start taking shortcuts and ignoring the laws, you
cause people to.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Get safety regulations were eroded. Over the following decades, we
witnessed the most tragic results of this. In twenty ten,
the Upper Big Branch mine disaster in West Virginia was
a miner's worst nightmare. There were thirty one miners underground
and twenty nine were killed by an explosion. CEO Don
(22:23):
Blinkenship went to jail and the company went bankrupt.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Don Blawship he had fifty some miners under his leadership
when he was CEO of ATS. Fifty some miners died
under his leadership.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
They're the most ruthless company, yeah, on Earth. They ran
the most dangerous coal mines in this year company.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
It seemed like there would be justice, but then Massey
was sold and the leadership that caused this tragedy made millions.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Shortly thereafter they sold out to company called out. These
boarder directors ended up getting a million dollars and John
Job performed bombs if you could believe that.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
That's terrible.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
And the CBO which they sent to jail as a
result of that, my explosure got eighty six million himself.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
That's right. Don Blankenship made eighty six million dollars. He's
still a powerful figure in West Virginia. He just ran
for Senate this past election cycle, although he lost. It's
crazy how someone who disregarded his workers could claim to
represent the people. It makes me angry. Workers were backed
(23:40):
into a corner and couldn't keep their rights and protections.
They were forced to work in worse conditions or lose everything.
There weren't many other jobs to choose from the upper
big branch mind disaster, and all of this struggle was avoidable. Danny,
Charles and Terry have watched as collective action has windled.
(24:01):
It must be so hard to feel that fall apart.
After the break, we'll talk about what they hope the
future holds. We're back with when You're invisible. As hard
(24:21):
as it's been for these union members to watch companies
exploit their workers, they still have faith that the industry
can improve and that their region can grow too. These
men want to see the people around them build wealth
and power together. But there are literally financial incentives against
collective action. Danny says, the co companies will pay workers
(24:44):
not to be united. What's the wage difference between a
union and a non union job, Just so we say
that out loud.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Non union plays more came to gaming now when the
union was prevalent, was real active, and we had non
union minds around us nerves law union minds work. The
non union companies would give coal bonuses, they would pay
more wages, but there was reason for that that keep
the union out. But now that union jobs are scarce,
(25:12):
that the non union companies, do what you want do.
There's nobody holding their fate to the fires, so safe right.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
What Danny is saying here is that even though they
were originally higher pay for non union jobs, now that
the union has dwindled in size, companies no longer have
to keep competitive wages. Workers are losing their bargaining power
and companies don't feel the pressure to meet demands or
fulfilled basic worker rights. But like everyone who's making do
(25:40):
with less and less, sometimes coal miners are left to
hold tightly onto what's on the table here and now
they want to ensure short term security because maybe a
long term solution doesn't seem like a real possibility.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Minors have saved the dollar signs and we would have
a life that young people come to minds. I'm sure
they had life about neighbors. We would watch them when
they was so interested in in praising the balls and stuff,
and we called him young and dumb, that's what we
called him. And phrase that people that has a change
(26:16):
that they for joining ying and they don't because they
see dollar signs like what waste sight? Now we see
these young people running around all their worried abouts having
a big bone box a big stereo system and a
new vehicle and to their wife and they would go
to McDonald's on the weekend. So that's what they look
forward to having.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Even though Danny's being a little harsh, I think it
comes from a really genuine care and frustration. He deeply
wants the next generation to have what they had pension safety,
job security, protections and money for their loved ones. For example,
Danny was able to send his wife and son to
college and had peace knowing that the union would help
(26:56):
them if he died.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
In the minds, So one of the biggest things miss
that's out there is we don't need a union these days.
We have labor laws and the labor board and protect us.
Why I tell you what, the union has been up
against those laws, and nine times out of ten, and
most time ten times out of ten, they will rule
against the workers and rule against the union, and the
(27:18):
laws will fake the company side. That's why you need
a union. If you think you're protecting the laws, you're
fooling yourself. They don't protect you. They protect the corporations.
When you don't have a seat at the table, guess
who's on the menu today.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
It's not always easy to convince a younger generation of
minors of this.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Terry says the union we've been misrepresented by people who
just like Damian Haut, the saying, you know, you don't
need a union anymore because you got laws. It's like
saying you don't need a government anymore because you got laws.
We're having the same problem that probably the rest of
the country has right now with misinformation. You go to
the news and it's whatever news you listen to. It's
(27:57):
like a different set of facts or miss or whatever
you want to call it to ye, but we have
the same problem here.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
The deep insidious nature of misinformation is felt across the country,
and it's intentional, whether it's in the workplace in these
coal mining towns or on a national level. Coal companies
are motivated to protect themselves, even if it means to
starting the truth.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
When Hillary Clinton was running for president, she came to
our county seat, which is called Whimps of West Virginia.
It's the county seat. It's about fifteen miles from here.
Joe Manchin brought her down here and he set her
up to mat with a bunch of people. That's when
Hill remade the statement that she was talking about Cole
was going to die out and stuff. You know, Cole's
(28:42):
going to be done away with, But she was going
to pump money into this area and she was actually
going to have a former President Clinton to work with
Joe Manchin to try to revitalize our areas. So they
took the statement that she made her and turned it
against her, that she was against cold going to kill
coal and all stuff, and they didn't take her. She
was going boy completely later here in this county.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, Danny felt seen in this moment during the real conversation,
but that was ruined. The realities at hand were twisted,
and the message was misrepresented. As important as it is
to rebuild their community, it's interesting that they don't feel
like it has to revolve around coal. According to Terry, this.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Part of the country is the very depressed, and that
the more we hollered cold cold coal, the worse off
we get because coal is not a renewable resource. Yeah
we need I mean, we're not that ignorant to know
that it's not a renewable resource. It's a scary time.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I went into this interview not sure of how these
men would view politics. And while it's clear they're working
in a conservative area. They really view polic see based
on what's good and right for everyday people.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
West Virginia's turned into red state, and it's hurt the union,
it's hurt workers, the lawss of third passenger in the state,
the right to work at type tape. But we stay
very active and we're not shaving the letter of voices
be heard.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Even after national elections leave them behind. Terry tells us
how these battles play out locally, and.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
We also have a problem that people will not listen
to us now, even in our own county, because today
we just sent out with a thousand cards, a thousand
cards in Ningo County alone endorsing candidates who are union candidates.
So that's a thousand people, and you could probably multiply that,
(30:44):
but two or three that's drawing UMWA benefits, so that'd
be three thousand votes. You're in this county supposedly should
be able to get you to anyone that you want elected,
and yet these people hype them are voting for who's
wanting to take our benefits away from him. Yeah, so
they're uninformed or missinformed, whatever you want to call it.
(31:07):
That is the problem that we have here. That's what
we battle all the time here.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
It's impressive to me how much energy and care these
men still have. It's truly inspiring, and it's crazy because
even though they have all this energy to try and
take care of the community, there's still things that aren't
in their control, like how much the area has changed.
According to Terry, unions across county and state lines share
(31:35):
the same fundamental problem.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
We both have the same problems, and that is depopulation
of the area. Saya neighboring county. McDowell County had one
hundred thousand people in nineteen fifty. Now it's somewhere around
seventeen thousand. That's eighty three thousand people moved out that county,
you know, since nineteen fifty. For the rest of the
country's growing, we're shrinking.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Despite doing so much frickin' work for these companies, none
of the resources really got reinvested into these communities.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
And the reason for that is because every damn coal
train we see going by here down the North Southern
Railway is hauling off our greatest resource that we had
other than our people. Yeah, or was our greatest resource,
but it's hauling off this profit for other people in
(32:28):
other parts of the country that don't even know where
we live. Yeah, we've always had that problem and we've
got it. It seems to be worse now because we
don't have the pair we used to have when we
had thousands upon thousands of Umba minors in the area.
We don't have that.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
These men are getting creative about how to bring back
union power in the region. Recently, they expanded their union
and they gained new members by including their local nine
to one one call operators.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
And I think kind of falling back, but it's going
to be a battle, yeah, and it's something that I
hope I can live long enough to see it come
back again strong like it is. But regardless, I'll always
be a union person because I know what the union
done for me and I know what he'd done for
my family.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
So you know, we we've got a lot of work
to do, and hopefully younger people will pick up that
work and do that work because our working days are
over again now. Yeah, I'm not proud that I'm a
coal miner. I'm proud that I was a union miner.
(33:41):
I'm proud of it.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Being a union member is one thing Terry has control
over in his life. It's a way that he can
enact change despite poverty and corruption. With all hard manual labor,
whether it's coal mining or it's undocumented migrants picking our fruit.
Maybe it's easier for us to ignore workers agency because
(34:04):
then we don't have to face the ugliness of these jobs.
But by only seeing people for the work they do
and not asking them what they might need, we're making
them invisible. There's so many assumptions that undermine these workers. Danny,
Charles and Terry have made their points over and over again,
(34:26):
and yet it's because.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
They have to, and we try to get the word out,
try to prove to people we.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Are you are.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I feel like we all are on some level.
Speaker 6 (34:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
It's like I feel like ignorance is relevant, like is
always a scale and depends on your perspective and depends
on your life experience, Like I am very ignorant in
terms of what you all know, Like so you could
probably you probably find me very ignorant, right, Like, no,
we don't.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
People who are asking questions about what you do are
not ignorant people. Those are the people that we'll lead
and really want to be concerned about things, and I ask,
what everybody needs to do is act quick, you know,
and find out about the step, instead of just taking
a stand and then digging in when you don't have
all the facts.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Damn, this interview made me realize how much I do
not know, and you don't know what you don't know.
Even after the time that I've spent thinking about solidarity
with workers, even after reading about these strikes and doing research,
I still had to stop and recognize my own bias
(35:42):
because I truly didn't expect how progressive, playful, and positive
these men would be. I really appreciate their generosity and
the space they gave me to explore, ask questions and
see my own ignorance a little bit. I am taking
away so many teachings about finding ways against all odds
(36:03):
to continue to grow and to fight. Next week we'll
meet someone else with their own legacy and family history
of resilience and labor organizing. My friend Abbi is Chicano
and part of the Yaki tribe.
Speaker 6 (36:17):
They had some music that night, some prayers, and I
came back with all these stories. Meeting all these tribal
people from all over the country, it just blue open
my mind, so my Indian pride came back really strong.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
We'll hear about how his indigenous identity has influenced his
perspective on making the world a better place. Thank you
so much for listening to When You're Invisible. Please leave
us a rating and a review to let us know
what you think. You can find this episode and future
ones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts. When You're Invisible is a production of
(36:53):
iHeart Podcasts and Myke Gurdura podcast Network. I'm your creator
and host Maria Fernandez.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Our story editor is Dylan Hoyer. This season was produced
by ME with additional production from Dylan Hoyer. Sound designed
by Dylan Hoyer with additional support from ME. Mixing and
mastering by Laurence Stump. Original theme music by Tony Bruno.
Our executive producers are Anna Stump and Gisell Banzes, and
special thanks to our Lene Santana
Coal miners are proud people, and all we've ever asked
for is to be traded brute and give Noalds day's
work for knowledge day's pay.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome to when You're Invisible. My name is Maria Fernanda Vies,
but I know not everyone can roll their ours, so
it's fine to call me Maria. When You're Invisible is
my love letter to the working class and others who
are seemingly invisible in our society. I hope to build
a community here that will inspire you to have generous
(00:28):
conversations with others that are different from you, conversations that
might help you see life in an entirely different way.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
So my name is Danny Wood. I'm the financial secretary
of UMWA Local fourteen forty mike ONEm, West Virginia.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Danny is a retired coal miner in West Virginia. Today
he works for the United Mine Workers of America, which
he calls the UMWA. That's their union.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I'm a third generation coal modern twenty four years in
the minds.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Coal mining is part of the grand mythology of the
United States. Miners are painted as the quintessential hard working Americans,
But for someone who didn't come from cold country and
has no ties to it. It feels like something out
of a storybook. It's such an old industry that the
working conditions and what these miners experience seem out of
(01:26):
place in our modern world. But the job and the
life that comes with it are very real, even if
we don't hear about it enough. Too often, these workers
are painted almost as caricatures, as conservative, ignorant, poor, depressed,
and selfish. I feel like a lot of stories I
(01:47):
see about this industry are about how coal companies disrespect
their workers and how miners feel desperate and left behind.
I wanted to know the truth and hear it from
the miners themselves. I went in hoping to find working
class solidarity and came away feeling even more empowered than
(02:08):
I imagined.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Minors has always struggled for everything we've got, We've had
five to five.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Danny is a first miner I got in contact with
through the West Virginia Mine Wars Museum. Shout out to
the folks there who are working to preserve and share
the history of coal miners in America. At first, I
thought I'd just be interviewing Danny, but he insisted on
sharing the spotlight with others in his community.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
And today I have with my former financial secretary and
also an international UMWA representative, Charles Dixon.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Hi, Hi, Charles, good, how are you doing. I'm great,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
And also I have with my UMWA Local fourteen forty
member Terry Steel. He is also a political compact chairman
of our local union.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Hid Hi, Terry, Good to meet you any Charles and
Terry are all retired coal miners who work for the
local union. It struck me right away how generously they
introduced themselves and made space for each other.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Here's Charles as coal miners that belonged to the greatest
union in this country.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
And the history will tell you that we are extremely
proud that the unions in this country pretty much built
the naval flash in this country. And we are and
have always been the foundation of the labor gaion.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
The labor history of states like West Virginia is incredible.
For example, the Battle of Blair Mountain was in West
Virginia in nineteen twenty one. It was the second largest
armed vault in the United States after the Civil War.
It was led by a coalition of American and immigrant
workers for several days. Coal miners literally fought for protections.
(03:55):
They laid claim on the mines and had finely clashes
with the police and companies. This uprising got national attention.
It's one of the money instances where coal miners have
fought for their safety and livelihoods, and resistance was necessary
because coal mining is an industry where you see extreme exploitation.
(04:17):
From the eighteen hundreds until the early to mid nineteen hundreds,
miners were controlled by the coal companies in their everyday lives,
even outside of work. Here's Danny Moost.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Little communities like that had their own coal companies and
at the time these coal companies was in existence and
had these coal company houses for their employees. They paid
with script. They didn't use the American money. The miners
were paid with script and they had spend it at
the company store. Each company had their own company store,
(04:51):
and the miners had to buy their wrong tools to
work with, they had to buy their wrong explosives. They
paid the company doctor two dollars per month. They had
to see the company doctor. Everything went through the company.
The company controlled their labs. And you're talking about somebody
being in bondage.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
This sounds like something out of a dystopian sci fi novel.
But this was happening while Danny's grandparents and parents were alive.
And while our three guests are white, I want to
acknowledge that more than half of the people who lived
in coal camps were black. Many historians directly linked these
camps to our country's legacy of slavery. These kinds of
(05:29):
camps were eventually disbanded, but the infrastructure remained. Miners like
Danny still lived in the homes that made up these camps.
The only difference was that they weren't technically owned by
the companies anymore. Yet, the scars of coal camps are
still felt economically and communally.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I grew up in the little community not far from here,
a little community called Mary Michael Wish Regia. Of course,
we all grew up in what we called cold camps.
Most of the housing was built by the cold companies
for the work. Back in the day. People were still
living when I grew up, no co com heuse and
we had coal fire for heat, burnt coal, and the
(06:08):
cold companies, even then my time, still dominated everything. They
was the dominant source of employment and to make a
living feder kids, people would work like a dog.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Even when the coal companies stopped running these towns, locals
didn't have savings and opportunities for upward mobility. That's because
they didn't even have US dollars to their names, so
revitalizing the area wasn't a real possibility. The stranglehold of
these companies remained, and the living conditions were still poor.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Growing up in a cold camp. When I grew up,
we had outside torrents. We didn't have run of water
and house. I was about fourteen or fifteen years old.
We packed their water and drew it up well. TV
consisted of an ant tanna. Outside was if you were lucky,
maybe one, two or three at the most. There's no
such things as cell phone. We didn't have a river
(07:04):
pham up in the house until I was a teenager,
and it was what was called a party line. Everybody
had a sicker ring, be like a long ring, a
short ring, and just different rings, and you might pick
the phone that want to use and somebody be on
the phone.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Danny can look back and laugh about how he and
his neighbors shared a phone line and his family of
thirteen shared an outdoor toilet, but it is striking that
the workers literally powering our country could be living like this,
especially in the fifties, the golden age of the American dream.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Let's living kids. We ate before we got an extra
We learned at early age to get up and work
and make money.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
They grew up fast because of their economic realities. Yet
there were moments of beauty, and all the men shared
an appreciation for the bright spots of their childhoods. Like Charles, I.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Grew up in the Siskies as you got glad, and
we had three toys. One was the Appalatric Mountains, which
we played in pretty much every day, squirrel hotting and
building cabins and things like that. And we also had
our swimming pool was the tug River. And the third
(08:16):
toy we had was a hell of imagination. Yep, we
didn't have no money to buy toys. We'd cut of
some ten foot long stick and trim it up and
strand it and colon the horse. That's how I love that.
I rode up in the best part of this big
wide world and rode up with the best people ever
(08:38):
in Georgia, big time.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
The scenery sounds of breathtaking and gorgeous. There's such a
stark contrast between this natural majesty and the ricketty homes
and talents. Picturing all this space and sky, I can't
help but to think about the years these men would
later spend underground, away from all these things they like.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Here's Terry lived in a little old place called Matter
up in the head of make Creek. My great grandfather
actually owned probably about one hundred acres where we lived at,
but he sold the mineral rights off back in the
early part of the when they went through here and
(09:21):
was buying up all the minerals in the first part
of the century here, So we become coal miners instead
of the owners of coal mines.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Wow. Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
What most people did. I'm a fourth generation coal miner.
I remember the day I started because I started mining
coal on my birthday. Wow, aid the twenty seventh, nineteen
seventy one. I worked twenty six years underground.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
They all come from families of multi generational coal miners.
They knew that they were destined for this work from
an early age. Being a kid and having to work
is something a lot of us can relate to. Yet well,
many of us spend our early jobs minding encounter or babysitting.
These men went into the belly of the earth and
(10:09):
did intense, dangerous physical labor.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
My grandpa got killed not before I was born. I
never got to see my grandpa. My dad all but
lost morning in his arms. Me and my brother, we
were looking enough to survive without very many disabling and grey.
I started in the coal mines in nineteen seventy war
March or nineteen seventy one. I worked in these underground
(10:35):
coal mines, probably in thirty inch cold for about the
first fourteen years.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Charles mentions the inches and the thickness of the coal.
Just know it affects the conditions and what to expect
when you're working, whether you're in a claustrophobic space or
a mine as fast as an underground cave. You're expected
to adjust and to just get used to it.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
We worked in low cove, what they call loco. It's
on the average of thirty inches and you could go
in like flat on your back and look up and
you wouldn't have to look no farther than about a
foot to fourteen inches and you'll see a mountain over
top of you. It was like working in a call
(11:18):
for all day long.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
If you don't come from like a mining town or
mining area. I think a lot of us don't like
we have an idea of what that might look like.
But can do you remember, like the first time, the
first day you went in, and what that was like?
Can you describe the like what it's like to go
in and like your feelings around that.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
That's pretty easy and scriptum, I'm scared as.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
He well, Danny laughs through his fear. Losing your life
or limb is a very real possibility when you work
in a mine. His job was truly dangerous, and the
first day is something a miner never forgets.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Terry and I were brother Lowe's. He got me my
first job in the coal mines, and I actually got
him the last job he had, so I paid him back.
I was physically fitting in good shape. I remember I
was with Terry working that night and I told him
I was in a real good shape. I said, why
didn't keep up to you? I'd keep up to you,
and you're not going to out work me. That man's pride,
(12:18):
that ego kicked in. He about kill me. I was
used to this. Here I am all being over and
doubled and trying to walk, just duck walk or trying
to crawl. And I never did tell him what you
probably already know it. But that first ship up kill me. Then.
I don't remember exactly what it was, but he said,
I'm gonna sit you down here, man, I gotta go somewheres.
(12:39):
So he set me down. I was by myself, and
he said I'll be right back. Just sit there and
don't move. So I hear all this creaking and this
water dripping block on movies, you've heard water dripping, and
it's double was loud in the coal mines because the
echo and stuff. I hear stuff rolling and falling. I
was scared, but I was determined to succeed for my
(13:00):
family because the benefits and the paying sluff. But it's
tough when you first started.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Danny may have survived his first day, but some literally
don't survive it, and many mentally you're not able to continue.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
A lot of people don't even make it through a
full shift because they are clost your boat and their
scared stuff. So I've actually saw that when people would
as soon as the light would bathe and the light
was out of sight, they would pay it and you'd
have to take them back out. But the first week
will determine. It'll make your breaking. You'll know what's in
that first week if you're going to make it off.
(13:37):
You get used to hold. It's a whole different environment.
Give you an example. You can turn your cab lamp
off and you can put your hand I almost touch
your nose and you can't see anything. It's totally total darkness.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
In such an intense environment, Charles says, they learned to
have each other's backs.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
We're for the most part like fact. I mean, we
played together as kids, and as we got old enough
to work in the mines, we worked pretty much at
the same mines together. So we've probably coal miners, especially
Umwa memory cold miners. We spend probably more time with
(14:15):
each other than we did with our families.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Well, they had a strong sense of camaraderie. That doesn't
mean that this job often or even ever felt fulfilling.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
You know, we were the number one job in the
country for ever insofar as the most diagnous workplace.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Yeah, but what I hate most about it is the
cold company, just the uncurring that they have for the
people that gave their lives.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Yeah, for them.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
After the break we're going to talk in depth about
the career defining battles these men fought against the coal companies.
Welcome back to when you're invisible. Here's the thing about
working as a coal miner, Danny says, no matter how
much you do, the coal companies don't care about you.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
They've always been able to get the coal miner. We've
always had a fight. They tried to take her pension,
they tried to take their health care, and it's always
a constant fight the cold companies. Although you want to day,
you're just another to them. They don't care about you.
Back in the hand loading days before they had a union,
a pony or a mule was more valuable to a
cold company than what the man was. They'd tell the me,
(15:28):
we can get another man to replace you, but we
can't get a good pony or mule.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
This way of thinking is insane. To openly say that
someone's life is worth less than that of an animal
involves a level of cruelty and apathy. To not fear
or face repercussions for that kind of blatant disrespect speaks
to the level of power companies have. The biggest source
(15:52):
of protection for workers is the union, as Charles states.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
You're not a Mountain Workers of America union does more
than the industry does itself to try and protect coal
mining jobs get Today, these co companies fight us tooth
and nail to keep us from organizing, yeah, and to
keep us from getting laws passed to protect our lives.
(16:19):
And we do more to keep their industry alive than
they do for themselves. They have absolutely no respect at
all for us and the people we are. And there's
not a harder working group of people in this country.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
The nineteen fifties were the golden age of union power.
Unions enforced safety regulations, ensured pension and workers' comp and
made sure workers were granted rights as simple as a
lunch break. Even at their peak, there were still battling
companies who wanted to cut costs at all costs. Today,
(16:55):
companies are still union busting, and unfortunately unions have laws strength.
Over time, many economic forces, laws and forms of corruption
have hurt unions. For West Virginia coal miners, an important
part of this trend can be traced to the strike
of nineteen eighty four. Danny, Terry and Charles were all there.
(17:19):
Here's Charles.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
You find your cell phone strike like we did in
eighty four, and they bought all the local politicians off.
You're fighting the state police day in, day out. You
got the national Labor Relations for it. That's got your
reduced down the horse, three or four pickets on a
pick behind. It's dangerous to get out there because they
don't got the local judges to give all the damn
(17:41):
truck drivers a gount forget to carry a gun on you.
Is a legal system that's dead against us too. It's
not like we ain't got enough to have the fight.
At coal Burns with pockets, they stacked the deck pretty
good against us.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
This strike was focused on at Massy, the most notorious
of the West Virginia coal companies. The CEO of Massy
was Don Blinkenship, and he was dead set on union busting.
It was his strategy for increasing the company's profits.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Under Don Blackship, he came in had no coal mine
experience far as I know. He was accountant. Want to help.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Yes, made four hundred times more than the miner operator
in his career, but.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
They devised the way they could make more money for
their board of directors. He'd get rid of our health
care he'd get rid of yingion, He'd get rid of
our pension, playing oldest stuff. Black Hawk I was on
strike against Massy. His community was greatly divided because of
Massy Cold.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
It sounds like with how rooted you are in community,
like your neighbors are your friends and everyone around you,
you know, so like what is that like to have
someone cross a picket line like and have that division start.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
We figured out they didn't give a damn about us,
and they didn't give a damn Butcher seal or they
would do that.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
This is what's a big idea. Danny just hit us
with people in the community crossed the picket line. This
surprised me. Even though this community is so rooted in
this industry, the strike was deeply divisive. I can only
imagine the feeling of betrayal from the people you've known
all your life. This has had lasting effects until today
(19:23):
it's become every man for themselves. The community isn't united,
and the union has lost a lot of its power locally.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And with what MASSI had done to this community, this
community has went downhill since that strike my opinion, and
it costs the must division and MASSI was not interested
in keeping the community going.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It was not in Massy's interest to unite people. Danny says.
They just wanted to use the community for their coal,
and once it was gone, they'd move on to the
next area, leaving the town without resources and work. But
to get what they wanted, they acted like they cared.
They made gestures to support the community and get people
(20:06):
on their side.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
To get the community to strap, they put our conditions
in school systems, helped create football baseball fields just to
get community sports. They know what they were doing.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
On top of that, Massy gave out Christmas gifts and
fruit baskets. As nice as these things seemed, they were
just for show. This was all part of the plan
to get rid of benefits, healthcare, and safety regulations. A
community shouldn't have to choose between things like football fields
and infrastructure versus pensions and protections. Unfortunately, though Terry tells
(20:42):
us that Massi's plan worked.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
We were handed something that we kind of pissed away
our generation did, and that was a union.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
The effects of poverty and the appeal of seeing immediate
change swede people. They sided with Massy. Many people chose
to work for Massie under non union contracts, and now
many companies avoid hiring union workers. Danny, Terry, Charles and
their fellow strikers lost work because of this. At points
(21:14):
they even had to take non union jobs to make
against meat.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Here's Charles, it's.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Common knowledge that if you worked at a non union mind,
it was a lot lot unsafer than what it was
working at a union. Mine statistics show that, and that
was a big reason why these companies, especially Massy, wanted
rid of the union so they could get rid of
all the all the mining laws that they had because
(21:41):
it was nobody there to enforce those. They know, the
men were too scared to enforce them themselves because the
didn't get fired. Tyke en force them to take short
cuts and increase production. But at the end of the day,
when you start taking shortcuts and ignoring the laws, you
cause people to.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Get safety regulations were eroded. Over the following decades, we
witnessed the most tragic results of this. In twenty ten,
the Upper Big Branch mine disaster in West Virginia was
a miner's worst nightmare. There were thirty one miners underground
and twenty nine were killed by an explosion. CEO Don
(22:23):
Blinkenship went to jail and the company went bankrupt.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Don Blawship he had fifty some miners under his leadership
when he was CEO of ATS. Fifty some miners died
under his leadership.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
They're the most ruthless company, yeah, on Earth. They ran
the most dangerous coal mines in this year company.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
It seemed like there would be justice, but then Massey
was sold and the leadership that caused this tragedy made millions.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Shortly thereafter they sold out to company called out. These
boarder directors ended up getting a million dollars and John
Job performed bombs if you could believe that.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
That's terrible.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
And the CBO which they sent to jail as a
result of that, my explosure got eighty six million himself.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
That's right. Don Blankenship made eighty six million dollars. He's
still a powerful figure in West Virginia. He just ran
for Senate this past election cycle, although he lost. It's
crazy how someone who disregarded his workers could claim to
represent the people. It makes me angry. Workers were backed
(23:40):
into a corner and couldn't keep their rights and protections.
They were forced to work in worse conditions or lose everything.
There weren't many other jobs to choose from the upper
big branch mind disaster, and all of this struggle was avoidable. Danny,
Charles and Terry have watched as collective action has windled.
(24:01):
It must be so hard to feel that fall apart.
After the break, we'll talk about what they hope the
future holds. We're back with when You're invisible. As hard
(24:21):
as it's been for these union members to watch companies
exploit their workers, they still have faith that the industry
can improve and that their region can grow too. These
men want to see the people around them build wealth
and power together. But there are literally financial incentives against
collective action. Danny says, the co companies will pay workers
(24:44):
not to be united. What's the wage difference between a
union and a non union job, Just so we say
that out loud.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Non union plays more came to gaming now when the
union was prevalent, was real active, and we had non
union minds around us nerves law union minds work. The
non union companies would give coal bonuses, they would pay
more wages, but there was reason for that that keep
the union out. But now that union jobs are scarce,
(25:12):
that the non union companies, do what you want do.
There's nobody holding their fate to the fires, so safe right.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
What Danny is saying here is that even though they
were originally higher pay for non union jobs, now that
the union has dwindled in size, companies no longer have
to keep competitive wages. Workers are losing their bargaining power
and companies don't feel the pressure to meet demands or
fulfilled basic worker rights. But like everyone who's making do
(25:40):
with less and less, sometimes coal miners are left to
hold tightly onto what's on the table here and now
they want to ensure short term security because maybe a
long term solution doesn't seem like a real possibility.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Minors have saved the dollar signs and we would have
a life that young people come to minds. I'm sure
they had life about neighbors. We would watch them when
they was so interested in in praising the balls and stuff,
and we called him young and dumb, that's what we
called him. And phrase that people that has a change
(26:16):
that they for joining ying and they don't because they
see dollar signs like what waste sight? Now we see
these young people running around all their worried abouts having
a big bone box a big stereo system and a
new vehicle and to their wife and they would go
to McDonald's on the weekend. So that's what they look
forward to having.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Even though Danny's being a little harsh, I think it
comes from a really genuine care and frustration. He deeply
wants the next generation to have what they had pension safety,
job security, protections and money for their loved ones. For example,
Danny was able to send his wife and son to
college and had peace knowing that the union would help
(26:56):
them if he died.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
In the minds, So one of the biggest things miss
that's out there is we don't need a union these days.
We have labor laws and the labor board and protect us.
Why I tell you what, the union has been up
against those laws, and nine times out of ten, and
most time ten times out of ten, they will rule
against the workers and rule against the union, and the
(27:18):
laws will fake the company side. That's why you need
a union. If you think you're protecting the laws, you're
fooling yourself. They don't protect you. They protect the corporations.
When you don't have a seat at the table, guess
who's on the menu today.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
It's not always easy to convince a younger generation of
minors of this.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Terry says the union we've been misrepresented by people who
just like Damian Haut, the saying, you know, you don't
need a union anymore because you got laws. It's like
saying you don't need a government anymore because you got laws.
We're having the same problem that probably the rest of
the country has right now with misinformation. You go to
the news and it's whatever news you listen to. It's
(27:57):
like a different set of facts or miss or whatever
you want to call it to ye, but we have
the same problem here.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
The deep insidious nature of misinformation is felt across the country,
and it's intentional, whether it's in the workplace in these
coal mining towns or on a national level. Coal companies
are motivated to protect themselves, even if it means to
starting the truth.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
When Hillary Clinton was running for president, she came to
our county seat, which is called Whimps of West Virginia.
It's the county seat. It's about fifteen miles from here.
Joe Manchin brought her down here and he set her
up to mat with a bunch of people. That's when
Hill remade the statement that she was talking about Cole
was going to die out and stuff. You know, Cole's
(28:42):
going to be done away with, But she was going
to pump money into this area and she was actually
going to have a former President Clinton to work with
Joe Manchin to try to revitalize our areas. So they
took the statement that she made her and turned it
against her, that she was against cold going to kill
coal and all stuff, and they didn't take her. She
was going boy completely later here in this county.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, Danny felt seen in this moment during the real conversation,
but that was ruined. The realities at hand were twisted,
and the message was misrepresented. As important as it is
to rebuild their community, it's interesting that they don't feel
like it has to revolve around coal. According to Terry, this.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Part of the country is the very depressed, and that
the more we hollered cold cold coal, the worse off
we get because coal is not a renewable resource. Yeah
we need I mean, we're not that ignorant to know
that it's not a renewable resource. It's a scary time.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I went into this interview not sure of how these
men would view politics. And while it's clear they're working
in a conservative area. They really view polic see based
on what's good and right for everyday people.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
West Virginia's turned into red state, and it's hurt the union,
it's hurt workers, the lawss of third passenger in the state,
the right to work at type tape. But we stay
very active and we're not shaving the letter of voices
be heard.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Even after national elections leave them behind. Terry tells us
how these battles play out locally, and.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
We also have a problem that people will not listen
to us now, even in our own county, because today
we just sent out with a thousand cards, a thousand
cards in Ningo County alone endorsing candidates who are union candidates.
So that's a thousand people, and you could probably multiply that,
(30:44):
but two or three that's drawing UMWA benefits, so that'd
be three thousand votes. You're in this county supposedly should
be able to get you to anyone that you want elected,
and yet these people hype them are voting for who's
wanting to take our benefits away from him. Yeah, so
they're uninformed or missinformed, whatever you want to call it.
(31:07):
That is the problem that we have here. That's what
we battle all the time here.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
It's impressive to me how much energy and care these
men still have. It's truly inspiring, and it's crazy because
even though they have all this energy to try and
take care of the community, there's still things that aren't
in their control, like how much the area has changed.
According to Terry, unions across county and state lines share
(31:35):
the same fundamental problem.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
We both have the same problems, and that is depopulation
of the area. Saya neighboring county. McDowell County had one
hundred thousand people in nineteen fifty. Now it's somewhere around
seventeen thousand. That's eighty three thousand people moved out that county,
you know, since nineteen fifty. For the rest of the
country's growing, we're shrinking.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Despite doing so much frickin' work for these companies, none
of the resources really got reinvested into these communities.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
And the reason for that is because every damn coal
train we see going by here down the North Southern
Railway is hauling off our greatest resource that we had
other than our people. Yeah, or was our greatest resource,
but it's hauling off this profit for other people in
(32:28):
other parts of the country that don't even know where
we live. Yeah, we've always had that problem and we've
got it. It seems to be worse now because we
don't have the pair we used to have when we
had thousands upon thousands of Umba minors in the area.
We don't have that.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
These men are getting creative about how to bring back
union power in the region. Recently, they expanded their union
and they gained new members by including their local nine
to one one call operators.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
And I think kind of falling back, but it's going
to be a battle, yeah, and it's something that I
hope I can live long enough to see it come
back again strong like it is. But regardless, I'll always
be a union person because I know what the union
done for me and I know what he'd done for
my family.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
So you know, we we've got a lot of work
to do, and hopefully younger people will pick up that
work and do that work because our working days are
over again now. Yeah, I'm not proud that I'm a
coal miner. I'm proud that I was a union miner.
(33:41):
I'm proud of it.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Being a union member is one thing Terry has control
over in his life. It's a way that he can
enact change despite poverty and corruption. With all hard manual labor,
whether it's coal mining or it's undocumented migrants picking our fruit.
Maybe it's easier for us to ignore workers agency because
(34:04):
then we don't have to face the ugliness of these jobs.
But by only seeing people for the work they do
and not asking them what they might need, we're making
them invisible. There's so many assumptions that undermine these workers. Danny,
Charles and Terry have made their points over and over again,
(34:26):
and yet it's because.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
They have to, and we try to get the word out,
try to prove to people we.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Are you are.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I feel like we all are on some level.
Speaker 6 (34:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
It's like I feel like ignorance is relevant, like is
always a scale and depends on your perspective and depends
on your life experience, Like I am very ignorant in
terms of what you all know, Like so you could
probably you probably find me very ignorant, right, Like, no,
we don't.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
People who are asking questions about what you do are
not ignorant people. Those are the people that we'll lead
and really want to be concerned about things, and I ask,
what everybody needs to do is act quick, you know,
and find out about the step, instead of just taking
a stand and then digging in when you don't have
all the facts.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Damn, this interview made me realize how much I do
not know, and you don't know what you don't know.
Even after the time that I've spent thinking about solidarity
with workers, even after reading about these strikes and doing research,
I still had to stop and recognize my own bias
(35:42):
because I truly didn't expect how progressive, playful, and positive
these men would be. I really appreciate their generosity and
the space they gave me to explore, ask questions and
see my own ignorance a little bit. I am taking
away so many teachings about finding ways against all odds
(36:03):
to continue to grow and to fight. Next week we'll
meet someone else with their own legacy and family history
of resilience and labor organizing. My friend Abbi is Chicano
and part of the Yaki tribe.
Speaker 6 (36:17):
They had some music that night, some prayers, and I
came back with all these stories. Meeting all these tribal
people from all over the country, it just blue open
my mind, so my Indian pride came back really strong.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
We'll hear about how his indigenous identity has influenced his
perspective on making the world a better place. Thank you
so much for listening to When You're Invisible. Please leave
us a rating and a review to let us know
what you think. You can find this episode and future
ones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts. When You're Invisible is a production of
(36:53):
iHeart Podcasts and Myke Gurdura podcast Network. I'm your creator
and host Maria Fernandez.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Our story editor is Dylan Hoyer. This season was produced
by ME with additional production from Dylan Hoyer. Sound designed
by Dylan Hoyer with additional support from ME. Mixing and
mastering by Laurence Stump. Original theme music by Tony Bruno.
Our executive producers are Anna Stump and Gisell Banzes, and
special thanks to our Lene Santana
Host
Maria Fernanda Diez
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