December 2, 2024 • 41 mins
Students often ask Mr. J why he’s a teacher. They say he just seems too cool. He used to be one of these students - he went to the high school he teaches at today. Back then, being a teacher seemed like the lamest job in the world to him. But now, he’s a testament to the fact that you can indeed be a “cool teacher.”
As Black man in his early thirties, Mr. J knows he’s in a unique position to teach in the predominantly Black community where he was born and raised. Sometimes it’s not just about what’s on the board but the ways that he can be a role model. I wanted to know about the day to day realities of working in a profession known for being underpaid, overworked, and yet, extremely important. He talks about the highs and hardships of his job and he opens up about his own adolescence, sharing his ambitions and the times he’s felt underestimated.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Just as a heads up.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
In this episode, we talk a little bit about gun
violence and violence in schools. Please take care of yourself
however you need.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
To before I get in the building. That's when the
turn up music is played. I'm coming for war, and
sometimes that's what it feels like when I'm going to work.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
That's really like the students.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
They have that mentality, whereas us against the teachers, and
I understand that I always have to have my game
face on.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
The goal is to be able to walk in the.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Building, sign in, get to my classroom, hit whatever buttons
I need to hit for.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
The projector, and then just to get this thing cranking.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to When You're Invisible. My name is Maria Fernanda. Yes,
but I know not everyone can roll their ours, so
it's fine to call me Maria. When You're Invisible is
my love letter to the working class and others who
are seemingly invisible in our society. I hope to build
a community that will inspire you to have generous conversations
(01:03):
with others that are different from you, conversations that might
help you see life in an entirely different way.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Hello, my name is mister Jay.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I am thirty three years old, teach ninth through twelfth
grade social studies, so that's US history, World history, and
American government are the subjects that I've taught thus far.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Mister J, which he has requested to go buy for
this episode, has been a teacher for seven years.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
He works in the Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Public school system, where seventy five percent of students qualify
for free or reduce school meals. So we're talking about
schools where the majority of students are working class for
family four, for example, to qualify for reduced lunch, their
income has to be under fifty five thousand dollars. My
(01:57):
interest in this episode started with what I've learned from
my sister in law. She works in public schools in Philadelphia,
and I've heard so many stories about how she wants
to be a part of these kids' lives, even though
some schools are so under resourced. She's told me about asbestos, mold,
having roaches. She's shared how there aren't enough teachers and
(02:19):
staff sometimes, and how it can be hard to make
an impact when just getting kids to come to school
can be a struggle.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
But she's also seen.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
So much love at some schools and forward steps to
keep kids on their path for the future. There's so
many shades of gray. Every school has its struggles and
its successes. I wanted to dive into these complex realities
on the show, so I was excited to meet mister J,
who is deeply ingrained in this community.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
The students that I teach are predominantly African American. We
come from similar places, like the communities are very similar.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
J is a black male teacher. He grew up in Baltimore,
and even though he never.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Expected it, he's a teacher at the high school he
graduated from.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Many things still look the same in the fifteen years
or so since he's graduated. He passes by the same
lockers he once used every day and you can tell.
He says, they're pushed up into the wall after the
years of use. Teachers can't hide the wear and tear,
but they always do their best.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
But has more of a museum feel in certain hallways.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Cool.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
The art teacher also has these murals that they draw
every year. They get the students to participate fully in
these things.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Do you decorate your classroom or is that not.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Really a thing?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
That's a great question for a male teacher. I do
decorate my classroom. It's not up to par with some
of my teacher friends. They like to get almost like
interior decoration to the highest level.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Teachers and our education workers have always been both appreciated
and underappreciated. We all know that this job is underpaid
and overworked. According to the National Education Association, the average
salary for teachers is about seventy thousand dollars and they
usually work more than fifty hours a week. A lot
(04:16):
of them also end up having to get summer jobs
to make ends meet. Teachers have so many unspoken responsibilities
that go beyond the mandated lesson, and even though that
often is invisible, mister J is confident in what he
brings to the classroom.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
I've had students asked me like, missus Jay, why are
you a teacher? It's like, It's like, okay, why you
ask me that? And and I've had this happen multiple times.
They're like, Oh, no, you just don't seem like a teacher. This,
this seems like it's not cool enough for you. You
seem cooler than that. I'm a cool teacher. We can
work together to make these things happen, but they're not
used to are they probably not used.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
To teachers that understand them for what they're worth.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
When I think.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
About the image of a tea in our culture, my
mind goes to a cartoon drawing and back to school
ads like a stick figure with an apple, or I
think of news clips about teachers who are burnt out
and overwhelmed by funding cuts or tragedies. And of course
there's always a stereotype of the maternal, sweet female teacher.
(05:20):
It's just not a job that we usually think of
as cool or desirable. We literally say things are too
cool for school, But mister J is definitely cool at school.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Sorry for the dad joke, y'all. How many students are
in each of your.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Classes range is from twenty five to thirty five per question.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
I never had a problem with a crowd.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I grew up singing and performing and entertaining. I used
to do talent shows and all of those things. So
every day at work it feels like the concert.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Mister J is naturally high energy. I could see it
immediately when we started the interview. He smiled instantly and
was ready to jump into any topic. He actually wore
a just do It hoodie, which fits him perfectly as
a slogan, and that was just because his just teach
it hoodies, we're in the laundry. Mister jc's's students as
(06:17):
his audience that gets bigger and more lively throughout the day.
Seeing himself as the main act in the classroom helps
energize him and fuel how he teaches his students well.
The day may start with only three consistent students that
show up on time. By the end of first period,
everyone's in it and the stage is set.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
I got to run the same show, yeah, three times
a little.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
I got to be a little different depending on the
crowd is.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
This makes some alterations, but that's what that's honestly what
makes work funny for me. And I think we have
to understand that we are supporting students here right These
are my supporters. They're supporting me by coming to class
every day. They are supporting me because when they're not
in class conditions to not helping themselves.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
But I want to make sure my supporters are good.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
This performance mentality reminds me that teaching is a symbiotic
relationship and a two way street. That's important when doing anything,
but especially when you're working with kids who really thrive
when they're engaged and are treated as if they matter.
When mister J gives them this energy, he's telling them
they're worthy of a show. And he does this every
(07:27):
single day.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
They get a little personality from me every now and then,
and a few jokes, a few one line is here
and there.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Yeah again some of.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Them, some kids understand, and some of them they just
don't land at all. But that's I think that's the
There's sometimes when we thought teachers were corny, they're corny,
and I think that's the corny aspect that I'm keeping.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
I'm keeping that brand alive, right.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It's also because, like I feel like when you thought
of a teacher as being corny, you still like knew
for the most part they were genuine and they met well.
I have the best memories of my sixth grade teacher
who did her college dance routines for my class whenever
we had a particularly good week. The teachers who aren't
afraid to be their nerdy, or athletic or full selves
leave a lasting impact. They are models for how honest
(08:13):
and open we can be as kids and adults. And
when authenticity like this meets representation. That's where some real
magic happens. It took me until college to meet a
Latin teacher or a black teacher. I had a handful
of male teachers, but black men who are teachers feel
like unicorns in the teaching world.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
It's rare to have black male teachers.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I've seen publications about them needing them and then you know,
but outside of that, just the impact of a black
male teacher. Every lesson doesn't have to be on the
front board. Sometimes I am the lesson, and I'm also
the testament.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Only about a third of Baltimore's teachers are black, even
though the majority of the student body is.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Mister j is highly aware of this.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I do things like try to dress up.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I take a lot of pride in dressing up for
my students, and then they ask questions that normal I
would say black kids ask in that environment, like why
you dressed up?
Speaker 4 (09:11):
You going to court? Where you going? Where you got
to go after this? You want to a funeral? Man? Listen. Actually,
I put this on because when I.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Put it on this morning, it looked good and I
wanted to keep it on it and I really like
how I look in the suit.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Just helping just change their perspective too, right.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Just them seeing me in front of them being able
to teach them, knowing that I have the knowledge to
teach them. It kind of wows them sometimes when they
are appreciative of having me in front of them to
teach them.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
I can feel that.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Kids of all ages are sponges. Everything from how we dress,
do our hair, the activities we engage in, how we
talk to them all play a role in how they
learn to see themselves. I love that mister J takes
the time to help rewire whatever negative perceptions or biases
they've picked up, doesn't shy away from setting up time
(10:01):
to engage in deep conversations outside of the classroom. A
teacher becomes a psychologist, a mentor, a teammate, a coach,
and so much more.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
I just appreciate when I can pull my students to
the side have a conversation instead of acting irrational and
getting emotional about things. You kind of have to have
that grown up conversation with the students. Listen, you're not
being responsible. I know you want to do this, but
why do you want to do that?
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Right? You know?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
You just have those conversations with them, pick their brain
and teach them in the moment.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
He's always finding ways to support as students. Sometimes it's
creating a safe haven in his classroom during lunch.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
I have coach class sometimes during lunchtime.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
It might be for students who don't have friends in
their lunch period, or who just want to hide out
in a colder room since the cafeteria has.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
No ac so I let them stay in my classroom.
I try to keep my crowd small, like VIP crowds.
I also make sure that tops are open, because if
you're going to be spending your time in here, we
have to have some type of production. It can't be
you scrolling your media for fifty minutes. It's just unreal
for the brain. So if you're gonna be in here,
(11:14):
I challenge them, Hey, what you're.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Working on in science? Let me see it all.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Working on this, but I ain't finished it, Okay, use
this time to finish it. I'm gonna put a time
on my board. Let me see how much you get done.
And it's just, you know, I'm just finding ways to
be creative, and that's helping them get over you know,
those humps where someone may really be underestimating you. I
try to just help them to be more competitive to
get things that they need.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Knowing, especially how black and brown students can be underestimated.
This is an environment where they're choosing to be pushed
and challenged. And mister J told me so many stories
like this. They kept coming up, just casually as I
asked some other questions. He tell me about students who'd
seen grown, we'd pulled aside after class, and about conversations
(11:59):
like this one.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I'm also here to help you like I'm the teacher
that's here to support you and help you in a
world where students may not feel like the teachers that
don't look like them aren't supporting them. I can just
be that beacon of hope for you.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Sometimes it's getting really deep and relating to students, and
other times it's just about being there to hear what
they're excited about.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
There are some amazing moments that happen right when they
go to prom and they're excited about their prom dress
or they're excited about what's to come.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Those are like beautiful moments.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
So how did mister J become the man in the
role model he is today? We'll hear more about his
childhood and how he found teaching after this break and
we're back. Mister j was once a kid in Baltimore,
much like his students.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Growing up in Baltimore.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I think it's been an interesting journey for me.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
I do appreciate it. I appreciate the ups the downs.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
And who did you consider your community as a kid,
And what about your community now for you?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Oh, that would probably is definitely predominantly black community.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
About half of Baltimore's population is black.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Whenever we if we saw a white person, they were
like like a state officials, someone who has a high position.
And then if they didn't, they were literally on the opposite,
like far opposite, and like probably like an attic or
something like that, one of too many white people living
in my neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
In shows like The Wire, Baltimore is painted in a
dark lens. It's shown as rough, corrupt, gritty, while in
other cop shows there's a clear dynamic of good versus bad.
In The Wire, Baltimore is multifaceted, and so was mister
Jay's experience, but parts of the city's infamous reputation do
ring true.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
For him.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Watching a wire is like you're watching people that are
from where you're from.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
It was no different seeing the crime the same, right.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
It was interesting to hear from someone in Baltimore just
how much they related to the show. As is the
case in many places. In Baltimore, crime rates are intensified
by poverty, and the well being of communities is also
harmed by incarceration and policing.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
I think early on you learn that as long as
you're like immediately not a part of what's going on,
you're safe.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
You're actually safe. Right.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
You have those instances where when people see that there's
a witness, they will try to take them out no
matter where you are.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
It's like minding your business.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, So a lot of what we learn growing up
a lot of times turning the eye to something it's
like a safety thing. Yeah, it's like safety, and I
don't have nothing to do with it. Then you get
older and it's like, all right, I can't let everything
just keep happening under my nose. So there's an element
(14:56):
where you're either bold and you speak up, or you
just stay out of the way.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Mister J stayed out of trouble as the son of
a single mom who worked at a hair salon. Some
days were long, so she had him spend time at
the Police Athletic League.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I grew up in a PAL center. PAL stands for
Police Athletic League. This was back when a lot of
the funding that they had within the city or the
state went towards the youth programs. This is where I
learned that I could sing, I learned that I had
some type of showmanshit, right. I learned all of this
through the PAL Center. Just like the PAL Center was
(15:33):
a big part of my growth. It was the safe space,
right because we actually had police work in there, and
a lot of times we allude weaponry to safety, but
they had guns and I felt like I was safe.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
So much attention has been rightfully paid to the injustice
is caused by police, but policing and safety is a
complex issue in the black community. Mister J's experience highlights
the positive impact investing in community programs. Yet the fascinating
reality of the PALSE center Mister J went to was
(16:05):
that the majority of kids enrolled were black, but it
was located in a predominantly white neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
The white kids who did come there, they were they
were your liberals who were just like, man, listen, we
don't have no problem with you, bro, we love you man.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Well, the kids loved each other. The same could not
be said about the adults.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
It offered to me a part of white America that
could eat me alive. A lot of them they didn't
really like black people, their instances where their parents would
see them with us, and it was like it really
it was like a small dose of feeling.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
What is like during the civil rights movement of the sixties.
It's like, man, were still going through this. I know
I learned about this, but this is still happening.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
And if a kid flocks how adults feel, that often
means that the racism runs very deep and is also
close to the surface.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
It was just a thing that we just had to
grow up in and be bold through it. But I think,
and this is just like me looking at it because
as a kid, I'm just living through it.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I love that phrase he uses, be bold through it.
I think people often lose that over time and after
facing setbacks. But when people's racism would cause him to
be underestimated, he didn't get small and shut down. Honestly,
He's always seemed like someone who's chosen confidence, and that
led him to explore beyond Baltimore city limits, which spurred
(17:29):
that curiosity to continue growing.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
On the weekends, I was like, outside of the city,
where I'll see a lot, I'll see way more than
just black people. So I'm able to just learn how
to operate in those rooms and just me being easy
to talk to. I think that was something that helped
me out coming from our community, but it started to
(17:52):
show in me that I was outgrowing my community, that
I was outgrowing just being someone in the neighborhood that
just plays with kids in the neighborhood and just go home.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Outgrowing your community can be bittersweet. It's important and helpful
to explore the world since it can bring a fresh
perspective and deeper compassion. It's also hard, though, sometimes you
see how the people in your neighborhood are stuck in
the same patterns. Mister J wanted to keep pushing himself,
(18:24):
so he decided to go to college out of state.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
When I went to college, I had friends and say like, oh,
how can you do that? You can go all the
way to Delaware. I'm like, did this person know? I
wanted to go to Texas and get far away from
Baltimore in the first place, I didn't like prepare for
that obviously, but I wanted to go like very very
very very far and really.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Not have to come back if I didn't.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
And being an hour and a half away it just
like for school, helped me realize like, all right, home
is not that far, my mom is not that far,
my close friends are not that far, and the good
thing about it is always love, having the best of
both worlds.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
It sounds like to me that you felt okay being
seen that way, like as someone who went beyond their community.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yes, yes, or but did you feel othered at all
or no?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
I felt like I was supposed to be the savior. Well,
I was supposed to be the person that they saw
do more than what we do. That's how I always
felt about just my environment and my surroundings. And I
feel like everything that I was doing it shaped me
to be more diverse.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
It feels like a lot of pressure too, if you're
seen as a savior. Yeah, if you feel that that energy.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
I think I felt that energy.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I felt it's like get my mom out of the
hood energy and then I could take a few people
with me. That's how I felt. I hope I get
to the NBA and get my family out the hood.
And then I learned that I was talented. Oh I
hope I learned a recording deal. Get my family out
the hood. I think the pressure of that happens more
when you like that's how you feel when you younger.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Mister J was ambitious from a young age.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
After college, that drive was still but like many people
in their twenties, reality set in and his path wasn't clear.
It's frustrating to feel lost any or all at once.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I was looking for a few jobs after college.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
You know, some entry level positions where a college kid
is making some good money, but they weren't landing how
they needed to land and I had to do something.
I know that bills have to get paid. I was
working at Amazon warehouse. I was like, no, I ain't
doing this. Then I was working in the pharmacy before
(20:33):
I started teaching, and working in Walgreens after graduating and
having a degree was a little rough on my mental.
I can't just be chucking reces across the counter, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, even in this moment of unhappiness, it still does
not occur to mister J to become a teacher.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Because I thought teaching was the lameest job in the world.
So I never wanted to be a teacher, but I
wanted to get away from that environment.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
That retail. Well it I just was so stuck and
it was very like the same thing every day.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Even though he was daydreaming of something more glamorous, there
were signs that teaching would be the perfect fit for him.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
I always been good with kids. I've always been good
with the youth.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
You like get in a coaching realm where you can
get a job at high school, I guess like fifteen
run at age you can become like one of the
first jobs to get you is like camp counselor and
stuff like that. So I've always I always liked working
with kids that were younger than me, kids that I
could help and teach stuff too.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Then, at just the right moment in his job search,
a friend told him about a substitute teaching job, and
things finally started to click for mister Jay.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
When I got this job, I didn't intend to stay
here as long as I'm here, but when I started
doing it, it felt like something else should be doing.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
But it all made sense. He liked running a classroom.
He was being challenged every day. Teaching made him feel alive.
He had a purpose that he was missing when he
had worked in retail, and later when a job opened
up in his Zelma monitor, it felt right he could
keep working with kids and contribute to the community he
knew so well, but it was hard for some people
(22:18):
to see that initially. When was the time that you
felt underestimated?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
So, Yeah, a time when I felt underestimated probably when
I got my interview. When I got my interview to
work there, I was coming from a very small school
population on paper, less than one hundred. I was told
that because I'm coming from a school of such a
small population, how am I going to Fair with a
population of almost two thousand students. Yeah, in that moment,
(22:47):
I felt like I was underestimated, because, like, I know
how this place operates, and it's different. Right, I was
a student then it's like teaching now. I didn't understand
why you would ask me that, because I came from
me and I know I got this. I can really
do this. I don't think I would have no problems
with it. So when I got that interview and I
felt a little underestimated. From that point on, I'm like, man,
(23:11):
me showed him how this is done.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
He's done just that every day over the last seven years.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
I'm a teacher because I felt like it was my calling.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
As positive as mister J is, his job is not
an easy one. When we come back from the break,
we'll hear about how mister J navigates the hardest realities
at his school, including tragedy and loss, and we'll see
how he holds onto his drive to inspire students. Stick
with us, welcome back. Mister J does so much to
(23:50):
inspire and vouch for his students, but they're up against
a lot of forces at play all around them, whether
it's individual family issues, gun violence, already, racism, students having
to work on top of going to school.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
The list goes on.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Sometimes all of these outside forces can make students feel less.
Then it can make people doubt their abilities and their potential.
Do you think that your students are underestimated?
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Do I feel like my students are underestimated wholeheartedly? When
we're in like these bigger meetings where teaches their requirements
for the student, right, Oh, well, the requirement may be
that they have to write two paragraphs and then one.
Teachers like I just tell them write three sentences. I'm like,
that's nowhere near two paragraphs.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
One thing I hated was the paragraph requirement.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
I didn't like that growing up because it's like, man,
I don't got all I need on here, so I'm
just trying to put some gibberish on here. And then
I learned, like when we hit them with the requirement
of how much it could stifle them a little bit
because now they're not focused on the content, They're not
focused on what they have to write.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
I tell them what needs to be in the writing.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Then we work on lemph of writing after, but I
tell them the things that need to be in it.
And when you learn about the things that need to
be in it, you'll learn that it's a paragraph worth
of things that need to be in it, versus yeah,
I need you to write a paragraphs. Let me just
give it a try and see if this was actually work.
And then I try it in my room and I
see that it can be done.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
As hard as mister Jay works to help his students,
he admits that even he has underestimated them.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Like Desmond Tom's I left my Beats headphones on my
desk and I'm like, oh god, I left my headphones
on my desk, my doors open, I'm away from my glassroom, and.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
I came back the next day. I underestimated them too.
I thought somebody was gonna steal it. They were right there,
They were right there.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I really appreciate his willingness to open up about that.
Being vulnerable and sharing this experience just shows me how
he's constantly thinking about his own bias and judgments and adjusting.
Through this whole interview, mister J has been so upbeat,
and when we started to get deeper and looking at
the effects of poverty and racism that are out of
(26:06):
his control, it hit me why he's like that. It's
as if he wants to keep these bigger forces at
bay and protect his students. But there are things that
go beyond being underestimated, that go beyond perception, things that
extend past the school halls.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
I had to experience.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I experienced losing a student to jail that wasn't my student.
He was a student who came by every day to
pick up one of his friends right after the bell rings,
and he admired when I dressed up at the end
of the school day, he stopped by and mister J
I just wanted to stop by and say you have
a great day, man, or he just check OneD me
(26:47):
see how my day was. It was very sad to
see him, you know, go to jail for a felony
in one of the worst charges that you can get
as a human.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
We have taken another life. That was just it was
sad to see.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Baltimore is a city where the rates of gun violence
are high. There's been around three hundred homicides a year
for the past decade. That's about the same number as
La a city almost seven times the size of Baltimore.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
I want to take space and acknowledge how complicated this
situation is.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
A life was taken and we'll never know who that
person was going to be. What also tears at me
is the fact that the perpetrator was.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
A high school student.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
While acknowledging that he has agency, this act also speaks
to the hurt and violence of the world we live in,
where a kid can take another's life, and that breaks
my heart and it hurts so many people in a community.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
It pulls other students away from their success.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
I had a student who was one of his friends actually,
and he ended up stopped coming to school. Now right,
it's like his friend got a rested for a murder
charge and now he's not coming to school anymore, and
then he ends up transferring. I'm inquiring about this dude
because I remembered him when he was in my class
all the time. And they like, oh, you didn't hear
about him. They're like, you don't know. I'm like, no,
(28:16):
his funeral is coming up soon.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
This is so hard to just here and to be honest.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
When I came into this interview, I was expecting that
real hardship and violence would be part of the story.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
But it's still.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Unsettling to see how violence seeps in and is out
of our control, whether it's happening off school grounds or
tragically as close as right outside his classroom.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Probably the heaviest moment on my heart was having to
experience a kid lose his life right outside of my classroom.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
It's a gun violence. This is the first week of school,
just a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
The first week of school should be filled with hopeful expectation,
and there's school was really trying to make sure that
everyone was excited and starting the year off, engaged, well organized,
and ready to succeed. And they had made it to
Friday when something happened that would alter the course of
the year to come.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
It's the end of the school day.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
I remember the bell rang about ten minutes and we
hear like four gunshots, and I'm like, wait, you know,
you hope it's not a gunshot. When you hear five works,
who just like, wasn't a gunshot? Some people don't really
know the difference. And it was like, it was just like,
I hope that.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Wasn't gunshots, but it was. I just got to hope
that the kids are okay. Hopefully it was just a stunt.
Hopefully someone was just shooting in the air right to
just try to scare people.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
And hopefully that was a police officer, not killing anyone,
but police officers and shooting the air to help clear
the space if need be, if it gets that bad.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
And then naturally I'll just peek out and see what that.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Noise was, and I'll see a gunman standing over a student,
and I'm seeing to see a freshman uniform shirts and
then they start scattering and running and then you just
see a body just there. The whole parking lot cleared out.
There's a million and one things running through my head?
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Who is that kid? Do I know that kid? Are
the freshmen? Okay?
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Did the gunman or did he go and do that
to someone else? Is that kid alive? And I think
the answer for that was pretty much there earlier than
we wanted it to be. I've seen a young lady
walk up to the body and she's just down there,
just crying.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
I think she was like a friend of the student.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Let's all take a breath together before we move on.
This is a hard moment and some listening may have
experienced something similar, and I want to invite you to
do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself.
What the teachers and school learned was that this was
an isolated event where one student from another school had
(30:58):
an issue with the kid he shot. Nobody else was hurt,
but the entire school was grieving. How can you continue
on as normal? Honestly, maybe you can't.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
One of my best friends works with me. We went
to that high school together. I didn't know the student.
They knew the student, and I had to be there
for my friend now, right, Yeah, I had to be
there for him, and that was just tough on him
because that was he taught that student when you teach
(31:32):
them and they actually do come to class, you have
a relationship with them. Yeah, And to see those things happen,
it eats you up, man, It eats you up.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
How does your community deal with grief? Like, how does
the school deal with grief and something so tragic?
Speaker 3 (31:48):
To deal with the grief of such a horrific situation,
the school district stepped in and I think one of
the first things that they did when it was just like,
we understand that they are deadline for these assessments, but
you guys don't have to worry about those deadlines. And
I'm like, all right, cool, because I know how they
can get right. I don't even think I have students
(32:09):
with the mind capacity right now to take an assessment.
So I hope they're not going to be pestering for
those things. And it put us behind. It put us
behind as a school. But dealing with that, the district
is bringing in the supports. They're sending people in to
talk to teachers if they needed to talk to students,
if they needed a heavy push for those supports.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
The optimistic energy that started the school year got swept
away by the grief, confusion, worry, and protocols. In the
aftermath of this tragic moment, I think about how jarring
it must have been for teachers and students who are
new to each other to be carrying this all together.
How do you build trust when you're not quite sure
(32:52):
yet how to process grief individually or collectively.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I do a circle in my class every Monday and
every Friday. Yeah, we're not doing any content work. We're
doing work on ourselves. We're learning about each other. We're
talking about how we feel. And again, some students they
closed off, they don't want to they don't want to talk.
So at the very least I just say, can you
just give me a number? Because it starts off with
a one through ten? And I can remember that week
(33:19):
students just being brainless, not knowing what to say. Right,
Sometimes you just don't know what to say. You get
some students who.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
It's not register rant for them.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Right, there's other students where it's like this happened all
the time in my neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Right.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
It might feel like you're in the most secured place.
I feel like when I'm in the building, it's a
sense of security. But the security blanket is the title
of the place. It being a school. That's the only
blanket anything can happen in a schools. Schools aren't I
don't think they're known as the safest places with no, Yeah,
it's not the safest places. I remember feeling like school
(34:01):
is a safe place for me. I remember feeling that
when I was younger, So it's not the same now.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
A lot of people in the US have felt this
shift across time where it feels like school was once
a sacred, untouchable place. Yeah, every act of violence further
chips away at this, and it undermines the ability of
schools to do what they're supposed to do.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
You can't talk anyone out of safety. So parents aren't
sending their kids back to school. Yeah, can you just
post my students work virtually, or can we just move
toward the virtual option, or I'm taking my student out
of the school completely.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
It's a lot of things.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
What made that year tough was the inconsistency of teachers
coming into work, the inconsistency of students coming into work.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
It made it very tough.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Because, Yeah, the district knows that we had a situation,
but they're still looking for theirs.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
They're looking for their like.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
It's a whole year. It's a whole year that gets lost.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yes, how do you think about like systemic issues like poverty, racism?
Speaker 1 (35:03):
How does that sit with you?
Speaker 2 (35:04):
And how do you how do you think about your
kids in that context? Do you address those things directly
with your students?
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I feel like it's my job to instill in them
that they have to continue to learn that you're always
going to have to learn. When you get into a
new environment, you have to learn new policies. When you
get into a new job, they have to train you
on how to do that job.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Right.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
You know this country we live in, it's instilling work
in us. You gotta work. So if we're going to
live in this country, then we're going to have to
do and we're gonna have to set out to do
the things that this country requires in order for you
to be successful, which is put in the work. Like
some people don't have to put in work and they
don't be in poverty because their family or whoever their
supporters are, they have something set in place for them,
(35:50):
but everybody doesn't. I try to help them have those
preventative measures is not realistically, it's not going to happen
for everyone.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
There's a unique sadness to acknowledge that as much as
you push your students, they won't all succeed, they won't
all get out of this cycle.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
So just sharing those realities, talking to them about growing
up in some kind of poverty.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
I don't think I was in.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Like full blown poverty growing up, but I do remember
not having my own home. I do remember my mom
telling us that we're going to be staying with my aunt. No,
you don't think about it when you're young, but I
remember living at my aunt's house and me and my
mom staying on one couch. When you're young, you're not
thinking about being in a poverty stricten situation. You just
(36:37):
trying to get sleep. But there's been instances where when
I got older, I had to squat at a friend's house.
Like that was like common in college, right, everybody was
squatting trying to find some living, But it was like
all in faith of getting the education. Knowing that I
don't have to live like that, knowing that I can
work towards getting out of that situation. It's helped me
(37:00):
to understand poverty in another realm for me, as it
relates to how I think about it for my students,
but I always try to point them in the right
direction for resources.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Early on in this episode, we talked about mister J's
symbiotic relationship with his students. When he puts on a
show for them in his classroom, he shares his experiences
to help them feel less alone. But I think opening
up also affects him helping his students feel seen it
lifts him up too. When do you feel seen and
(37:34):
when do you feel invisible?
Speaker 3 (37:36):
I think I feel seen more when I get good
feedback from the students just about how they're able to learn.
I also feel seen when students do well on an assessment,
not nothing like too crazy, but just like maybe like
just something simple as a topic that we're on for
that week. Right, If the student isn't achieving how I
(37:58):
need them to achieve, it makes me feel invisible. Yeah,
it makes me. It really makes me feel invisible. We
can be buttered up all the time with a little
certificate here and there from administration about the good that
we do, But it's the things that are unwritten and
they don't really show up on a stat sheet that
(38:19):
are the factors of us feeling like we are seeing
it or feeling like we aren't heard. If you're not succeeding,
I'm just like, what is it? I'm not doing well?
What else do I need to do in order to
help you?
Speaker 2 (38:30):
This constance driving and seeing how our teachers are fighting
for students is both heartbreaking and heartwarming. They're up against
a cycle that's hard to break on their own, but
they never stop trying. Thank you so much for chatting
with us for so long. I really appreciate all of
your stories and your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
This conversation definitely makes me feel seen because these are
conversations that I always have in that happy hour, But
these are conversations in a group chat right that happens
all the time amongst your teacher peers, where it seems
like nobody understands, but it seems like you can resonate
with everything that's being talked about. Yeah, and that that
(39:16):
makes me feel seen.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
It wasn't hard for me to relate to what he
was saying. I mean, schools affect us all. They're the
cornerstone of our communities, but too often we don't treat
them that way. The fact that mister J feels like
coworkers are the only ones who understand. His experience shows
me that we as a nation aren't listening closely enough.
(39:39):
I hope this episode was a step towards more genuine conversations.
With that, maybe we can really start to build a
better support system for all our teachers and students. Next
week we'll get to hear from a student. Daniel invites
us into his world as a sixteen year old trans
Latino in Arizona.
Speaker 5 (40:01):
If someone was to like compartmentalize every part of my
identity onto the map of the United States, me being
transgender would be Rhode Island. That's in that little corner
of like important things, but it's also really small.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
So what's your taxes?
Speaker 4 (40:16):
Really good?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
As a young person, an activist, and an in betweener,
Daniel has so much compassion, frustration, and hope to share
with us.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
See you all next week.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Thank you so much for listening to When You're Invisible.
Please leave us a rating and a review to let
us know what you think. You can find this episode
and future ones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. When You're Invisible is a
production of iHeart podcasts and my Courdura podcast network. I'm
Your creator and host Maria Fernanda Dies. Our story editor
(40:53):
is Dylan Hoyer. This season was produced by Me with
additional production from Dylan Hoyer. Designed by Dylan Hoyer, mixing
and mastering by Laurence Stump. Original theme music by Tony Bruno.
Our executive producers are Anna Stump and Gisell Bances, and
special thanks to our Lean Santana
Just as a heads up.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
In this episode, we talk a little bit about gun
violence and violence in schools. Please take care of yourself
however you need.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
To before I get in the building. That's when the
turn up music is played. I'm coming for war, and
sometimes that's what it feels like when I'm going to work.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
That's really like the students.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
They have that mentality, whereas us against the teachers, and
I understand that I always have to have my game
face on.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
The goal is to be able to walk in the.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Building, sign in, get to my classroom, hit whatever buttons
I need to hit for.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
The projector, and then just to get this thing cranking.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to When You're Invisible. My name is Maria Fernanda. Yes,
but I know not everyone can roll their ours, so
it's fine to call me Maria. When You're Invisible is
my love letter to the working class and others who
are seemingly invisible in our society. I hope to build
a community that will inspire you to have generous conversations
(01:03):
with others that are different from you, conversations that might
help you see life in an entirely different way.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Hello, my name is mister Jay.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I am thirty three years old, teach ninth through twelfth
grade social studies, so that's US history, World history, and
American government are the subjects that I've taught thus far.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Mister J, which he has requested to go buy for
this episode, has been a teacher for seven years.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
He works in the Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Public school system, where seventy five percent of students qualify
for free or reduce school meals. So we're talking about
schools where the majority of students are working class for
family four, for example, to qualify for reduced lunch, their
income has to be under fifty five thousand dollars. My
(01:57):
interest in this episode started with what I've learned from
my sister in law. She works in public schools in Philadelphia,
and I've heard so many stories about how she wants
to be a part of these kids' lives, even though
some schools are so under resourced. She's told me about asbestos, mold,
having roaches. She's shared how there aren't enough teachers and
(02:19):
staff sometimes, and how it can be hard to make
an impact when just getting kids to come to school
can be a struggle.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
But she's also seen.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
So much love at some schools and forward steps to
keep kids on their path for the future. There's so
many shades of gray. Every school has its struggles and
its successes. I wanted to dive into these complex realities
on the show, so I was excited to meet mister J,
who is deeply ingrained in this community.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
The students that I teach are predominantly African American. We
come from similar places, like the communities are very similar.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
J is a black male teacher. He grew up in Baltimore,
and even though he never.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Expected it, he's a teacher at the high school he
graduated from.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Many things still look the same in the fifteen years
or so since he's graduated. He passes by the same
lockers he once used every day and you can tell.
He says, they're pushed up into the wall after the
years of use. Teachers can't hide the wear and tear,
but they always do their best.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
But has more of a museum feel in certain hallways.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Cool.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
The art teacher also has these murals that they draw
every year. They get the students to participate fully in
these things.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Do you decorate your classroom or is that not.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Really a thing?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
That's a great question for a male teacher. I do
decorate my classroom. It's not up to par with some
of my teacher friends. They like to get almost like
interior decoration to the highest level.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Teachers and our education workers have always been both appreciated
and underappreciated. We all know that this job is underpaid
and overworked. According to the National Education Association, the average
salary for teachers is about seventy thousand dollars and they
usually work more than fifty hours a week. A lot
(04:16):
of them also end up having to get summer jobs
to make ends meet. Teachers have so many unspoken responsibilities
that go beyond the mandated lesson, and even though that
often is invisible, mister J is confident in what he
brings to the classroom.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
I've had students asked me like, missus Jay, why are
you a teacher? It's like, It's like, okay, why you
ask me that? And and I've had this happen multiple times.
They're like, Oh, no, you just don't seem like a teacher. This,
this seems like it's not cool enough for you. You
seem cooler than that. I'm a cool teacher. We can
work together to make these things happen, but they're not
used to are they probably not used.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
To teachers that understand them for what they're worth.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
When I think.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
About the image of a tea in our culture, my
mind goes to a cartoon drawing and back to school
ads like a stick figure with an apple, or I
think of news clips about teachers who are burnt out
and overwhelmed by funding cuts or tragedies. And of course
there's always a stereotype of the maternal, sweet female teacher.
(05:20):
It's just not a job that we usually think of
as cool or desirable. We literally say things are too
cool for school, But mister J is definitely cool at school.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Sorry for the dad joke, y'all. How many students are
in each of your.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Classes range is from twenty five to thirty five per question.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
I never had a problem with a crowd.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I grew up singing and performing and entertaining. I used
to do talent shows and all of those things. So
every day at work it feels like the concert.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Mister J is naturally high energy. I could see it
immediately when we started the interview. He smiled instantly and
was ready to jump into any topic. He actually wore
a just do It hoodie, which fits him perfectly as
a slogan, and that was just because his just teach
it hoodies, we're in the laundry. Mister jc's's students as
(06:17):
his audience that gets bigger and more lively throughout the day.
Seeing himself as the main act in the classroom helps
energize him and fuel how he teaches his students well.
The day may start with only three consistent students that
show up on time. By the end of first period,
everyone's in it and the stage is set.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
I got to run the same show, yeah, three times
a little.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
I got to be a little different depending on the
crowd is.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
This makes some alterations, but that's what that's honestly what
makes work funny for me. And I think we have
to understand that we are supporting students here right These
are my supporters. They're supporting me by coming to class
every day. They are supporting me because when they're not
in class conditions to not helping themselves.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
But I want to make sure my supporters are good.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
This performance mentality reminds me that teaching is a symbiotic
relationship and a two way street. That's important when doing anything,
but especially when you're working with kids who really thrive
when they're engaged and are treated as if they matter.
When mister J gives them this energy, he's telling them
they're worthy of a show. And he does this every
(07:27):
single day.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
They get a little personality from me every now and then,
and a few jokes, a few one line is here
and there.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Yeah again some of.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Them, some kids understand, and some of them they just
don't land at all. But that's I think that's the
There's sometimes when we thought teachers were corny, they're corny,
and I think that's the corny aspect that I'm keeping.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
I'm keeping that brand alive, right.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It's also because, like I feel like when you thought
of a teacher as being corny, you still like knew
for the most part they were genuine and they met well.
I have the best memories of my sixth grade teacher
who did her college dance routines for my class whenever
we had a particularly good week. The teachers who aren't
afraid to be their nerdy, or athletic or full selves
leave a lasting impact. They are models for how honest
(08:13):
and open we can be as kids and adults. And
when authenticity like this meets representation. That's where some real
magic happens. It took me until college to meet a
Latin teacher or a black teacher. I had a handful
of male teachers, but black men who are teachers feel
like unicorns in the teaching world.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
It's rare to have black male teachers.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I've seen publications about them needing them and then you know,
but outside of that, just the impact of a black
male teacher. Every lesson doesn't have to be on the
front board. Sometimes I am the lesson, and I'm also
the testament.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Only about a third of Baltimore's teachers are black, even
though the majority of the student body is.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Mister j is highly aware of this.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I do things like try to dress up.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I take a lot of pride in dressing up for
my students, and then they ask questions that normal I
would say black kids ask in that environment, like why
you dressed up?
Speaker 4 (09:11):
You going to court? Where you going? Where you got
to go after this? You want to a funeral? Man? Listen. Actually,
I put this on because when I.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Put it on this morning, it looked good and I
wanted to keep it on it and I really like
how I look in the suit.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Just helping just change their perspective too, right.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Just them seeing me in front of them being able
to teach them, knowing that I have the knowledge to
teach them. It kind of wows them sometimes when they
are appreciative of having me in front of them to
teach them.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
I can feel that.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Kids of all ages are sponges. Everything from how we dress,
do our hair, the activities we engage in, how we
talk to them all play a role in how they
learn to see themselves. I love that mister J takes
the time to help rewire whatever negative perceptions or biases
they've picked up, doesn't shy away from setting up time
(10:01):
to engage in deep conversations outside of the classroom. A
teacher becomes a psychologist, a mentor, a teammate, a coach,
and so much more.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
I just appreciate when I can pull my students to
the side have a conversation instead of acting irrational and
getting emotional about things. You kind of have to have
that grown up conversation with the students. Listen, you're not
being responsible. I know you want to do this, but
why do you want to do that?
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Right? You know?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
You just have those conversations with them, pick their brain
and teach them in the moment.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
He's always finding ways to support as students. Sometimes it's
creating a safe haven in his classroom during lunch.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
I have coach class sometimes during lunchtime.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
It might be for students who don't have friends in
their lunch period, or who just want to hide out
in a colder room since the cafeteria has.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
No ac so I let them stay in my classroom.
I try to keep my crowd small, like VIP crowds.
I also make sure that tops are open, because if
you're going to be spending your time in here, we
have to have some type of production. It can't be
you scrolling your media for fifty minutes. It's just unreal
for the brain. So if you're gonna be in here,
(11:14):
I challenge them, Hey, what you're.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Working on in science? Let me see it all.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Working on this, but I ain't finished it, Okay, use
this time to finish it. I'm gonna put a time
on my board. Let me see how much you get done.
And it's just, you know, I'm just finding ways to
be creative, and that's helping them get over you know,
those humps where someone may really be underestimating you. I
try to just help them to be more competitive to
get things that they need.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Knowing, especially how black and brown students can be underestimated.
This is an environment where they're choosing to be pushed
and challenged. And mister J told me so many stories
like this. They kept coming up, just casually as I
asked some other questions. He tell me about students who'd
seen grown, we'd pulled aside after class, and about conversations
(11:59):
like this one.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I'm also here to help you like I'm the teacher
that's here to support you and help you in a
world where students may not feel like the teachers that
don't look like them aren't supporting them. I can just
be that beacon of hope for you.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Sometimes it's getting really deep and relating to students, and
other times it's just about being there to hear what
they're excited about.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
There are some amazing moments that happen right when they
go to prom and they're excited about their prom dress
or they're excited about what's to come.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Those are like beautiful moments.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
So how did mister J become the man in the
role model he is today? We'll hear more about his
childhood and how he found teaching after this break and
we're back. Mister j was once a kid in Baltimore,
much like his students.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Growing up in Baltimore.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I think it's been an interesting journey for me.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
I do appreciate it. I appreciate the ups the downs.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
And who did you consider your community as a kid,
And what about your community now for you?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Oh, that would probably is definitely predominantly black community.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
About half of Baltimore's population is black.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Whenever we if we saw a white person, they were
like like a state officials, someone who has a high position.
And then if they didn't, they were literally on the opposite,
like far opposite, and like probably like an attic or
something like that, one of too many white people living
in my neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
In shows like The Wire, Baltimore is painted in a
dark lens. It's shown as rough, corrupt, gritty, while in
other cop shows there's a clear dynamic of good versus bad.
In The Wire, Baltimore is multifaceted, and so was mister
Jay's experience, but parts of the city's infamous reputation do
ring true.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
For him.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Watching a wire is like you're watching people that are
from where you're from.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
It was no different seeing the crime the same, right.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
It was interesting to hear from someone in Baltimore just
how much they related to the show. As is the
case in many places. In Baltimore, crime rates are intensified
by poverty, and the well being of communities is also
harmed by incarceration and policing.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
I think early on you learn that as long as
you're like immediately not a part of what's going on,
you're safe.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
You're actually safe. Right.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
You have those instances where when people see that there's
a witness, they will try to take them out no
matter where you are.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
It's like minding your business.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, So a lot of what we learn growing up
a lot of times turning the eye to something it's
like a safety thing. Yeah, it's like safety, and I
don't have nothing to do with it. Then you get
older and it's like, all right, I can't let everything
just keep happening under my nose. So there's an element
(14:56):
where you're either bold and you speak up, or you
just stay out of the way.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Mister J stayed out of trouble as the son of
a single mom who worked at a hair salon. Some
days were long, so she had him spend time at
the Police Athletic League.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I grew up in a PAL center. PAL stands for
Police Athletic League. This was back when a lot of
the funding that they had within the city or the
state went towards the youth programs. This is where I
learned that I could sing, I learned that I had
some type of showmanshit, right. I learned all of this
through the PAL Center. Just like the PAL Center was
(15:33):
a big part of my growth. It was the safe space,
right because we actually had police work in there, and
a lot of times we allude weaponry to safety, but
they had guns and I felt like I was safe.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
So much attention has been rightfully paid to the injustice
is caused by police, but policing and safety is a
complex issue in the black community. Mister J's experience highlights
the positive impact investing in community programs. Yet the fascinating
reality of the PALSE center Mister J went to was
(16:05):
that the majority of kids enrolled were black, but it
was located in a predominantly white neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
The white kids who did come there, they were they
were your liberals who were just like, man, listen, we
don't have no problem with you, bro, we love you man.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Well, the kids loved each other. The same could not
be said about the adults.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
It offered to me a part of white America that
could eat me alive. A lot of them they didn't
really like black people, their instances where their parents would
see them with us, and it was like it really
it was like a small dose of feeling.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
What is like during the civil rights movement of the sixties.
It's like, man, were still going through this. I know
I learned about this, but this is still happening.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
And if a kid flocks how adults feel, that often
means that the racism runs very deep and is also
close to the surface.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
It was just a thing that we just had to
grow up in and be bold through it. But I think,
and this is just like me looking at it because
as a kid, I'm just living through it.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I love that phrase he uses, be bold through it.
I think people often lose that over time and after
facing setbacks. But when people's racism would cause him to
be underestimated, he didn't get small and shut down. Honestly,
He's always seemed like someone who's chosen confidence, and that
led him to explore beyond Baltimore city limits, which spurred
(17:29):
that curiosity to continue growing.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
On the weekends, I was like, outside of the city,
where I'll see a lot, I'll see way more than
just black people. So I'm able to just learn how
to operate in those rooms and just me being easy
to talk to. I think that was something that helped
me out coming from our community, but it started to
(17:52):
show in me that I was outgrowing my community, that
I was outgrowing just being someone in the neighborhood that
just plays with kids in the neighborhood and just go home.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Outgrowing your community can be bittersweet. It's important and helpful
to explore the world since it can bring a fresh
perspective and deeper compassion. It's also hard, though, sometimes you
see how the people in your neighborhood are stuck in
the same patterns. Mister J wanted to keep pushing himself,
(18:24):
so he decided to go to college out of state.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
When I went to college, I had friends and say like, oh,
how can you do that? You can go all the
way to Delaware. I'm like, did this person know? I
wanted to go to Texas and get far away from
Baltimore in the first place, I didn't like prepare for
that obviously, but I wanted to go like very very
very very far and really.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Not have to come back if I didn't.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
And being an hour and a half away it just
like for school, helped me realize like, all right, home
is not that far, my mom is not that far,
my close friends are not that far, and the good
thing about it is always love, having the best of
both worlds.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
It sounds like to me that you felt okay being
seen that way, like as someone who went beyond their community.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yes, yes, or but did you feel othered at all
or no?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
I felt like I was supposed to be the savior. Well,
I was supposed to be the person that they saw
do more than what we do. That's how I always
felt about just my environment and my surroundings. And I
feel like everything that I was doing it shaped me
to be more diverse.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
It feels like a lot of pressure too, if you're
seen as a savior. Yeah, if you feel that that energy.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
I think I felt that energy.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I felt it's like get my mom out of the
hood energy and then I could take a few people
with me. That's how I felt. I hope I get
to the NBA and get my family out the hood.
And then I learned that I was talented. Oh I
hope I learned a recording deal. Get my family out
the hood. I think the pressure of that happens more
when you like that's how you feel when you younger.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Mister J was ambitious from a young age.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
After college, that drive was still but like many people
in their twenties, reality set in and his path wasn't clear.
It's frustrating to feel lost any or all at once.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I was looking for a few jobs after college.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
You know, some entry level positions where a college kid
is making some good money, but they weren't landing how
they needed to land and I had to do something.
I know that bills have to get paid. I was
working at Amazon warehouse. I was like, no, I ain't
doing this. Then I was working in the pharmacy before
(20:33):
I started teaching, and working in Walgreens after graduating and
having a degree was a little rough on my mental.
I can't just be chucking reces across the counter, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, even in this moment of unhappiness, it still does
not occur to mister J to become a teacher.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Because I thought teaching was the lameest job in the world.
So I never wanted to be a teacher, but I
wanted to get away from that environment.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
That retail. Well it I just was so stuck and
it was very like the same thing every day.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Even though he was daydreaming of something more glamorous, there
were signs that teaching would be the perfect fit for him.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
I always been good with kids. I've always been good
with the youth.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
You like get in a coaching realm where you can
get a job at high school, I guess like fifteen
run at age you can become like one of the
first jobs to get you is like camp counselor and
stuff like that. So I've always I always liked working
with kids that were younger than me, kids that I
could help and teach stuff too.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Then, at just the right moment in his job search,
a friend told him about a substitute teaching job, and
things finally started to click for mister Jay.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
When I got this job, I didn't intend to stay
here as long as I'm here, but when I started
doing it, it felt like something else should be doing.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
But it all made sense. He liked running a classroom.
He was being challenged every day. Teaching made him feel alive.
He had a purpose that he was missing when he
had worked in retail, and later when a job opened
up in his Zelma monitor, it felt right he could
keep working with kids and contribute to the community he
knew so well, but it was hard for some people
(22:18):
to see that initially. When was the time that you
felt underestimated?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
So, Yeah, a time when I felt underestimated probably when
I got my interview. When I got my interview to
work there, I was coming from a very small school
population on paper, less than one hundred. I was told
that because I'm coming from a school of such a
small population, how am I going to Fair with a
population of almost two thousand students. Yeah, in that moment,
(22:47):
I felt like I was underestimated, because, like, I know
how this place operates, and it's different. Right, I was
a student then it's like teaching now. I didn't understand
why you would ask me that, because I came from
me and I know I got this. I can really
do this. I don't think I would have no problems
with it. So when I got that interview and I
felt a little underestimated. From that point on, I'm like, man,
(23:11):
me showed him how this is done.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
He's done just that every day over the last seven years.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
I'm a teacher because I felt like it was my calling.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
As positive as mister J is, his job is not
an easy one. When we come back from the break,
we'll hear about how mister J navigates the hardest realities
at his school, including tragedy and loss, and we'll see
how he holds onto his drive to inspire students. Stick
with us, welcome back. Mister J does so much to
(23:50):
inspire and vouch for his students, but they're up against
a lot of forces at play all around them, whether
it's individual family issues, gun violence, already, racism, students having
to work on top of going to school.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
The list goes on.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Sometimes all of these outside forces can make students feel less.
Then it can make people doubt their abilities and their potential.
Do you think that your students are underestimated?
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Do I feel like my students are underestimated wholeheartedly? When
we're in like these bigger meetings where teaches their requirements
for the student, right, Oh, well, the requirement may be
that they have to write two paragraphs and then one.
Teachers like I just tell them write three sentences. I'm like,
that's nowhere near two paragraphs.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
One thing I hated was the paragraph requirement.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
I didn't like that growing up because it's like, man,
I don't got all I need on here, so I'm
just trying to put some gibberish on here. And then
I learned, like when we hit them with the requirement
of how much it could stifle them a little bit
because now they're not focused on the content, They're not
focused on what they have to write.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
I tell them what needs to be in the writing.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Then we work on lemph of writing after, but I
tell them the things that need to be in it.
And when you learn about the things that need to
be in it, you'll learn that it's a paragraph worth
of things that need to be in it, versus yeah,
I need you to write a paragraphs. Let me just
give it a try and see if this was actually work.
And then I try it in my room and I
see that it can be done.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
As hard as mister Jay works to help his students,
he admits that even he has underestimated them.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Like Desmond Tom's I left my Beats headphones on my
desk and I'm like, oh god, I left my headphones
on my desk, my doors open, I'm away from my glassroom, and.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
I came back the next day. I underestimated them too.
I thought somebody was gonna steal it. They were right there,
They were right there.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I really appreciate his willingness to open up about that.
Being vulnerable and sharing this experience just shows me how
he's constantly thinking about his own bias and judgments and adjusting.
Through this whole interview, mister J has been so upbeat,
and when we started to get deeper and looking at
the effects of poverty and racism that are out of
(26:06):
his control, it hit me why he's like that. It's
as if he wants to keep these bigger forces at
bay and protect his students. But there are things that
go beyond being underestimated, that go beyond perception, things that
extend past the school halls.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
I had to experience.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I experienced losing a student to jail that wasn't my student.
He was a student who came by every day to
pick up one of his friends right after the bell rings,
and he admired when I dressed up at the end
of the school day, he stopped by and mister J
I just wanted to stop by and say you have
a great day, man, or he just check OneD me
(26:47):
see how my day was. It was very sad to
see him, you know, go to jail for a felony
in one of the worst charges that you can get
as a human.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
We have taken another life. That was just it was
sad to see.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Baltimore is a city where the rates of gun violence
are high. There's been around three hundred homicides a year
for the past decade. That's about the same number as
La a city almost seven times the size of Baltimore.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
I want to take space and acknowledge how complicated this
situation is.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
A life was taken and we'll never know who that
person was going to be. What also tears at me
is the fact that the perpetrator was.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
A high school student.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
While acknowledging that he has agency, this act also speaks
to the hurt and violence of the world we live in,
where a kid can take another's life, and that breaks
my heart and it hurts so many people in a community.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
It pulls other students away from their success.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
I had a student who was one of his friends actually,
and he ended up stopped coming to school. Now right,
it's like his friend got a rested for a murder
charge and now he's not coming to school anymore, and
then he ends up transferring. I'm inquiring about this dude
because I remembered him when he was in my class
all the time. And they like, oh, you didn't hear
about him. They're like, you don't know. I'm like, no,
(28:16):
his funeral is coming up soon.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
This is so hard to just here and to be honest.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
When I came into this interview, I was expecting that
real hardship and violence would be part of the story.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
But it's still.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Unsettling to see how violence seeps in and is out
of our control, whether it's happening off school grounds or
tragically as close as right outside his classroom.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Probably the heaviest moment on my heart was having to
experience a kid lose his life right outside of my classroom.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
It's a gun violence. This is the first week of school,
just a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
The first week of school should be filled with hopeful expectation,
and there's school was really trying to make sure that
everyone was excited and starting the year off, engaged, well organized,
and ready to succeed. And they had made it to
Friday when something happened that would alter the course of
the year to come.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
It's the end of the school day.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
I remember the bell rang about ten minutes and we
hear like four gunshots, and I'm like, wait, you know,
you hope it's not a gunshot. When you hear five works,
who just like, wasn't a gunshot? Some people don't really
know the difference. And it was like, it was just like,
I hope that.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Wasn't gunshots, but it was. I just got to hope
that the kids are okay. Hopefully it was just a stunt.
Hopefully someone was just shooting in the air right to
just try to scare people.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
And hopefully that was a police officer, not killing anyone,
but police officers and shooting the air to help clear
the space if need be, if it gets that bad.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
And then naturally I'll just peek out and see what that.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Noise was, and I'll see a gunman standing over a student,
and I'm seeing to see a freshman uniform shirts and
then they start scattering and running and then you just
see a body just there. The whole parking lot cleared out.
There's a million and one things running through my head?
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Who is that kid? Do I know that kid? Are
the freshmen? Okay?
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Did the gunman or did he go and do that
to someone else? Is that kid alive? And I think
the answer for that was pretty much there earlier than
we wanted it to be. I've seen a young lady
walk up to the body and she's just down there,
just crying.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
I think she was like a friend of the student.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Let's all take a breath together before we move on.
This is a hard moment and some listening may have
experienced something similar, and I want to invite you to
do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself.
What the teachers and school learned was that this was
an isolated event where one student from another school had
(30:58):
an issue with the kid he shot. Nobody else was hurt,
but the entire school was grieving. How can you continue
on as normal? Honestly, maybe you can't.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
One of my best friends works with me. We went
to that high school together. I didn't know the student.
They knew the student, and I had to be there
for my friend now, right, Yeah, I had to be
there for him, and that was just tough on him
because that was he taught that student when you teach
(31:32):
them and they actually do come to class, you have
a relationship with them. Yeah, And to see those things happen,
it eats you up, man, It eats you up.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
How does your community deal with grief? Like, how does
the school deal with grief and something so tragic?
Speaker 3 (31:48):
To deal with the grief of such a horrific situation,
the school district stepped in and I think one of
the first things that they did when it was just like,
we understand that they are deadline for these assessments, but
you guys don't have to worry about those deadlines. And
I'm like, all right, cool, because I know how they
can get right. I don't even think I have students
(32:09):
with the mind capacity right now to take an assessment.
So I hope they're not going to be pestering for
those things. And it put us behind. It put us
behind as a school. But dealing with that, the district
is bringing in the supports. They're sending people in to
talk to teachers if they needed to talk to students,
if they needed a heavy push for those supports.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
The optimistic energy that started the school year got swept
away by the grief, confusion, worry, and protocols. In the
aftermath of this tragic moment, I think about how jarring
it must have been for teachers and students who are
new to each other to be carrying this all together.
How do you build trust when you're not quite sure
(32:52):
yet how to process grief individually or collectively.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I do a circle in my class every Monday and
every Friday. Yeah, we're not doing any content work. We're
doing work on ourselves. We're learning about each other. We're
talking about how we feel. And again, some students they
closed off, they don't want to they don't want to talk.
So at the very least I just say, can you
just give me a number? Because it starts off with
a one through ten? And I can remember that week
(33:19):
students just being brainless, not knowing what to say. Right,
Sometimes you just don't know what to say. You get
some students who.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
It's not register rant for them.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Right, there's other students where it's like this happened all
the time in my neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Right.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
It might feel like you're in the most secured place.
I feel like when I'm in the building, it's a
sense of security. But the security blanket is the title
of the place. It being a school. That's the only
blanket anything can happen in a schools. Schools aren't I
don't think they're known as the safest places with no, Yeah,
it's not the safest places. I remember feeling like school
(34:01):
is a safe place for me. I remember feeling that
when I was younger, So it's not the same now.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
A lot of people in the US have felt this
shift across time where it feels like school was once
a sacred, untouchable place. Yeah, every act of violence further
chips away at this, and it undermines the ability of
schools to do what they're supposed to do.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
You can't talk anyone out of safety. So parents aren't
sending their kids back to school. Yeah, can you just
post my students work virtually, or can we just move
toward the virtual option, or I'm taking my student out
of the school completely.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
It's a lot of things.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
What made that year tough was the inconsistency of teachers
coming into work, the inconsistency of students coming into work.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
It made it very tough.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Because, Yeah, the district knows that we had a situation,
but they're still looking for theirs.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
They're looking for their like.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
It's a whole year. It's a whole year that gets lost.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yes, how do you think about like systemic issues like poverty, racism?
Speaker 1 (35:03):
How does that sit with you?
Speaker 2 (35:04):
And how do you how do you think about your
kids in that context? Do you address those things directly
with your students?
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I feel like it's my job to instill in them
that they have to continue to learn that you're always
going to have to learn. When you get into a
new environment, you have to learn new policies. When you
get into a new job, they have to train you
on how to do that job.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Right.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
You know this country we live in, it's instilling work
in us. You gotta work. So if we're going to
live in this country, then we're going to have to
do and we're gonna have to set out to do
the things that this country requires in order for you
to be successful, which is put in the work. Like
some people don't have to put in work and they
don't be in poverty because their family or whoever their
supporters are, they have something set in place for them,
(35:50):
but everybody doesn't. I try to help them have those
preventative measures is not realistically, it's not going to happen
for everyone.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
There's a unique sadness to acknowledge that as much as
you push your students, they won't all succeed, they won't
all get out of this cycle.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
So just sharing those realities, talking to them about growing
up in some kind of poverty.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
I don't think I was in.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Like full blown poverty growing up, but I do remember
not having my own home. I do remember my mom
telling us that we're going to be staying with my aunt. No,
you don't think about it when you're young, but I
remember living at my aunt's house and me and my
mom staying on one couch. When you're young, you're not
thinking about being in a poverty stricten situation. You just
(36:37):
trying to get sleep. But there's been instances where when
I got older, I had to squat at a friend's house.
Like that was like common in college, right, everybody was
squatting trying to find some living, But it was like
all in faith of getting the education. Knowing that I
don't have to live like that, knowing that I can
work towards getting out of that situation. It's helped me
(37:00):
to understand poverty in another realm for me, as it
relates to how I think about it for my students,
but I always try to point them in the right
direction for resources.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Early on in this episode, we talked about mister J's
symbiotic relationship with his students. When he puts on a
show for them in his classroom, he shares his experiences
to help them feel less alone. But I think opening
up also affects him helping his students feel seen it
lifts him up too. When do you feel seen and
(37:34):
when do you feel invisible?
Speaker 3 (37:36):
I think I feel seen more when I get good
feedback from the students just about how they're able to learn.
I also feel seen when students do well on an assessment,
not nothing like too crazy, but just like maybe like
just something simple as a topic that we're on for
that week. Right, If the student isn't achieving how I
(37:58):
need them to achieve, it makes me feel invisible. Yeah,
it makes me. It really makes me feel invisible. We
can be buttered up all the time with a little
certificate here and there from administration about the good that
we do, But it's the things that are unwritten and
they don't really show up on a stat sheet that
(38:19):
are the factors of us feeling like we are seeing
it or feeling like we aren't heard. If you're not succeeding,
I'm just like, what is it? I'm not doing well?
What else do I need to do in order to
help you?
Speaker 2 (38:30):
This constance driving and seeing how our teachers are fighting
for students is both heartbreaking and heartwarming. They're up against
a cycle that's hard to break on their own, but
they never stop trying. Thank you so much for chatting
with us for so long. I really appreciate all of
your stories and your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
This conversation definitely makes me feel seen because these are
conversations that I always have in that happy hour, But
these are conversations in a group chat right that happens
all the time amongst your teacher peers, where it seems
like nobody understands, but it seems like you can resonate
with everything that's being talked about. Yeah, and that that
(39:16):
makes me feel seen.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
It wasn't hard for me to relate to what he
was saying. I mean, schools affect us all. They're the
cornerstone of our communities, but too often we don't treat
them that way. The fact that mister J feels like
coworkers are the only ones who understand. His experience shows
me that we as a nation aren't listening closely enough.
(39:39):
I hope this episode was a step towards more genuine conversations.
With that, maybe we can really start to build a
better support system for all our teachers and students. Next
week we'll get to hear from a student. Daniel invites
us into his world as a sixteen year old trans
Latino in Arizona.
Speaker 5 (40:01):
If someone was to like compartmentalize every part of my
identity onto the map of the United States, me being
transgender would be Rhode Island. That's in that little corner
of like important things, but it's also really small.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
So what's your taxes?
Speaker 4 (40:16):
Really good?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
As a young person, an activist, and an in betweener,
Daniel has so much compassion, frustration, and hope to share
with us.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
See you all next week.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Thank you so much for listening to When You're Invisible.
Please leave us a rating and a review to let
us know what you think. You can find this episode
and future ones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. When You're Invisible is a
production of iHeart podcasts and my Courdura podcast network. I'm
Your creator and host Maria Fernanda Dies. Our story editor
(40:53):
is Dylan Hoyer. This season was produced by Me with
additional production from Dylan Hoyer. Designed by Dylan Hoyer, mixing
and mastering by Laurence Stump. Original theme music by Tony Bruno.
Our executive producers are Anna Stump and Gisell Bances, and
special thanks to our Lean Santana
Host
Maria Fernanda Diez
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