April 29, 2021 • 35 mins
This week, we revisit an important episode of “Why Am I Telling You This?” on the escalating opioid crisis, which has been exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic. This episode features U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy and harm reductionist and Clinton Foundation partner Julie Stampler who joined President Bill Clinton in 2019 to discuss how we can work together to fight this epidemic, and a personal story from Sarah Gad, who overcame her own struggle with substance use disorder and is now helping others through a Clinton Global Initiative University commitment that has increased medication-assisted treatment for incarcerated people struggling to survive and conquer their addiction.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report that, on average, more than 160 people a day die of opioid overdoses across America — and millions more are in need of treatment. Amid the COVID-19 pandemic, there has been a significant increase in overdose deaths throughout the country, as people struggling with substance use disorder have had difficulty accessing health care professionals, support groups, and family and friends. In April 2021, the Biden Administration asked Congress for $10.7 billion to fight the opioid crisis.
The Clinton Foundation’s Opioid Response Network has been responding to the opioid crisis since 2012 — working with partners to distribute more than 280,000 doses of life-saving naloxone, engage influential faith leaders in hard-hit communities to reduce stigma, and translate research into practice with institutions such as the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Harvard Medical School. Learn more: clintonfoundation.org.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Like so many people across America, Hillary and I have
a personal connection to the opioid epidemic. I'll never forget
where I was when I heard that the son of
one of my very best friends, a bright, young twenty
eight year old who had worked for Hillary at the
State Department and who was pursuing both an MBA and
a law degree, had died in his sleep just before Christmas.
(00:23):
And we knew him well and liked him so much,
it just seemed impossible. Not long after, we learned that
he died of a lethal combination of alcohol and oxy
code on. Sadly, while he was the first person we
knew who suffered a fatal overdose, he wasn't the last.
(00:44):
Hillary and I now have five friends who have lost
their children to this epidemic. So why am I telling
you this? Because in America today, just about everyone knows
someone who's died, as it was, to an overdose. Drug
overdoses killed more Americans and HIV AIDS, car crashes, or
(01:05):
gun violence. Behind every one of these statistics is a
real person, someone with a real life, a real story,
and real people who love them. While so much of
our public health discourse over the last year has focused
on the COVID nineteen pandemic. The overdose epidemic remains an
urgent crisis, and the challenges of the COVID nineteen pandemic,
(01:29):
from isolation to unemployment to the shuttering of community resources
and gathering places, have had a disproportionate impact on people
struggling with substance abuse disorders. We've got to find a
way to turn the tide. Today's episode of Why Am
I Telling You This features someone who is one of
America's leading experts on the opioid and overdose epidemic, Dr
(01:53):
Vivit Murphy. Dr Murphy served as Surgeon General of the
United States from and was renominated by President Biden and
reconfirmed last month. We recorded this conversation back in and
I wish I could say it's no longer relevant, But unfortunately,
(02:13):
the overdose epidemic continues to rage across America, leaving unfinished
lives and broken hearts in its wake. The latest CDC
data shows that overdose deaths increased by for the twelve
months ending in September. Especially given that the pandemic has
cut off people's access to healthcare and support systems, we
(02:34):
need to recognize the impact it's having on people's mental
health and redouble our efforts to combat this crisis. Dr
Vivic Murphy, thanks for joining us. Thank you, Mr President.
You did something really remarkable in first issuing the first
Certain General's report ever on alcohol, drugs and health, and
(02:55):
at the same time, more remarkably to me, you actually
sent a let earn a card to two point three
million doctors, nurses, dentists, and other clinicians asking them to
help address the opioid epidemic. Now nobody had ever done
this before. Why did you, Well, thanks for the question,
Mr President, for having me joining this conversation on opioids.
(03:16):
When I began my time in office, I remember thinking
on my first day about my priorities on what they
should be. But I had this instinct to spend the
first few months on a listening tour, just visiting communities
across the country, and the issue that kept coming up
again and again and again was the issue of opioids,
and so I quickly realized that that needed to be
(03:37):
even higher on my priority list. It also dovetailed with
the personal experience that I had had as a clinician.
Uh you know, as a doctor, I took care of
patients over the years who struggled with all kinds of
chronic pain conditions, and I found myself prescribing opioids often.
I also, at the same time was seeing people come
in struggling with addiction to heroin, to prescription opioids, and
(03:59):
to other all manner of substances, and I began to
realize that there was a connection between the way we
were as doctors prescribing these pain medicines and what was
actually happening to our patients. I wish I had realized
that earlier, but I, like many doctors, was taught that
if we gave opioid medicines to someone who had quote
unquote legitimate pain, that they would not become addicted to
(04:20):
that substance. And why were we wrong? So coming into office,
when I realized that we had, inadvertently, as a profession,
contributed to the epidemic, you know, I realized that in
addition to publishing the first Surgeon General's Report on the
subject of addiction, we also needed to do more. We
needed to call our profession to action to rectify an
issue that we had helped create. And so that's why
(04:42):
I penned a personal letter to doctors and nurse practitioners
and dentists all across the country. And at the time
it was you know, I did it an instinct. I
didn't know quite what the reaction would be, but I
was gratified to hear from many doctors and nurses over
the coming months, UH that it actually changed how they practiced,
(05:02):
how they prescribed these kind of pain medications. And I
remember going to an oral surgeon actually recently to get
my own wisdom tooth pulled, uh, and he told me
that in addition to receiving that letter, that he had
made a decision when he read it that he was
going to stop prescribing percoset automatically to everyone who had
wisdom teeth removed. And he gave all of them his
(05:24):
personal cell phone number, and he braced for what he
thought would be an onslaught of calls from patients saying
that their pain wasn't well controlled on ibyprofen and they
needed something stronger. But days went by and the calls
never came, and he realized that, hey, we can actually
get by treating pain safely and effectively without necessarily using opioids.
(05:45):
I want to thank you for this. We live in
an age of denial about a lot of things. When
Chelsea was in high school, all our friends used to
say that denial it's not just a river in Egypt
and uh, And I think it takes a certain amount
of courage just to say I once thought the truth
was this, and I learned something and I changed. And
(06:07):
that's what I think more and more people have to
do about more and more issues, but especially this one.
Let's talk about this a little bit. I think a
lot of people know about the lock zone, and no,
it can bring people back, but it's just the first step.
So could you briefly describe what should be done to
someone who's overdosed, who's injected or inhaled the lock zone
(06:30):
and then comes back. That's the beginning, not the end
of this process. So describe how that works. Well. The
lockson is a really powerful medication and remarkably effective at
reversing the effects of opioids. And for people who have
who's breathing has been compromised by these medicines, they can
reverse that and enable them to breathe again. I've administered
(06:50):
in the locks on myself. I've seen just how rapidly
it acts, so it's good that we are getting that
medication to the hands at first responders and family members,
but for far too many people who overdose, the treatment
does stop there. And it's shocking how many people are
treated with the lock zone and go right back into
the community and often in fact, will get more prescriptions
for opiate medications. What we really need to do is
(07:13):
to bring those people in and connect them to treatment
right away, treatment often with medication assisted therapies including methodone Bupid,
Norphine UH and now trek Zone. And what we've realized
now is that there should be no wrong door to treatment.
So whether it's a first responder UH finding you having overdosed,
let's say, in the community, whether it's somebody in the
(07:35):
emergency room who encounters you, whether it's a somebody in
your place of employment who realizes that you have a
challenge with addiction. We have to find ways to create
channels which people can go from where they are in
their communities to getting directly connected to treatment. Right now,
it's too hard for people in communities across the country.
But if we can change that, and I think we
(07:56):
can take people who need and want treatment and actually
get them the life stating treatment that they deserve. I
think you made a really important point. I remember a
couple of summers ago, I was playing golf out on
a public golf course and all these folks gathered around me.
All they want to talk about was the open wood problem.
And there was only one young person there. All the
(08:17):
others walked away after about forty five minutes. He stayed
behind and said, thank you. I didn't know anybody like
you cared about this. I'm four days out of rehab,
and he said, I'm not worried about myself. I want
to live and now I know how. But he said,
I think it's a terrible shame that you've got to
have as much money as my family does to afford this.
(08:37):
You've got to do something to help the people that
have no money. So let's start with what the government
should do, or the federal land state government, how should that?
Where are we on that? Well, there's no question that
when of the big barriers to treatment is the cost
and the availability of these services, including the availability of
trained personnel. The problem is in part of funding issue.
(09:00):
In the last several years, we have seen Congress allocate
substantial amounts of money, several billion dollars in fact, but
the reality is that we need far more than a
few billion dollars to expand treatment sufficiently so that everyone
who needs care can get it. When we published the
Certain General's Report on Alcohol, Drugs and Health in one
of the things that we noted was that only one
(09:21):
in ten people who are struggling with the substance use
disorder actually getting treatment. And part of that is because
people can't get treatment, and part of it also has
to do with this stigma, the unfortunate stigma associated with
substance use disorders, which prevents people often from seeking help.
When I was traveling through Tennessee, for example, I met
many people who either had loved ones who are struggling
(09:42):
with an opiad use disorder or themselves were who refused
to talk to me if there were any cameras around,
And the reason was because they felt if somebody knew
that they had a problem and that they needed help,
that they would be ostracized not just by their neighbors,
but also by their doctors. And sadly, I did meet
doctors when I was in Tennessee and in other states
who didn't believe what they were reading about medication assist
(10:05):
to treatment who thought it was just another way of
perpetuating a dependence on opioids, and these unfortunate misconceptions, combined
with the lack of adequate funding, have combined to make
it too hard for people to get treatment. We have
evidence about what works. We know, for example, that medication
assists to treatment with these three medications in particular method
and guben orphine and now trek zone not only reduce
(10:28):
the risk of overdose, but they also reduce crime in communities.
They reduced the acquisition of needleborn infections like HIV and
hepatitis c UH. They are good overall. Um, there are still,
unfortunately a majority of treatment facilities in the country right
now which do not offer medication assists to treatment, and
(10:48):
that to me is uh is an unthinkable tragedy because
at a time where we know what works, for the
majority of treatment facilities, to not have what works and
to be charging people tends of thousands of dollars for
that treatment, UH is just it's just horrible, and that's
something that I think we absolutely need to change. Well,
let me ask you this, is it not offered because
(11:09):
the money is not there, or because there's a stigma
associated with the use of method on about for northern Well.
Partially this is about payment, but only partially. So I
think that once we get insurance programs of Medicaid and
private insurance to fully reimburse for the full suite of
medication assisted treatment UM, once we ensure that we actually
have adequate personnel trained to deliver that treatment, that will
(11:31):
help a lot. But the stigma piece that you brought
up is a is a really good point because I
have visited communities across the country where treatment is available,
but people will not access it because they are worried
that they will be looked down upon. You know, if
they engage in treatment that they will doctor in fact,
will look down upon them. And I visited communities that
do not want to invite treatment centers in because they
(11:52):
feel it will bring the wrong kind of people into
their community and because they have been led to believe
that this is uh that this treatment is just perpet
awaiting opiate addiction. If you understand like what's really happening
with the opia epidemic, you realize that this is not
about inviting quote unquote bad people in, but the people
who are struggling with opiate addiction are in all of
our communities anyway, there are friends, our neighbors, often family members,
(12:15):
and they struggle in the shadows though, unable to come
forward and share their stories because the unfortunate shame associated
with it. One of the things I've tried to do
is to get rid of stigma by getting the whole
community involved. We have this fight based initiative where we
have people from all fights traditions to gather to get
people to come together because everybody's congregation has got somebody
(12:38):
in it with this problem. Education, whether it's in in
school based settings grade school and colleges, or in workplaces
or through faith based organizations, can be remarkably effective. The
other thing that can happen in these settings is that
conversations can be started to actually share the real stories
of people who are struggling with addiction. This is hard
(12:59):
to do because in an environment where you're not sure
how you're going to be received. I can understand how
challenging it can be for someone struggling with an opiate
used disorder, for example, to come forward and say I
have a problem. But what I have seen time and
time again is that when people take that courageous step,
people all around them respond, sometimes often silently saying oh gosh,
(13:20):
I thought I was the only one, or I thought
my family was the only one impacted, but often vocally
as well, voicing their support. And I think of faith
organizations as powerful partners in this regard. They convene conversations
anyway on topics related to faith and life. More broadly,
their ability to convene conversations where people share their real
story with addiction can be extraordinarily powerful in helping to
(13:41):
remove some of that stigma. There are times when culture
trump's policy when it comes to ultimate impact, and this
is a place where the culture around addiction are underlying
belief around it. Uh is has to be addressed before
we're fully able to address the epidemic. As much as
we feel like we're reading about the opiate epidemic in
the Pay Purse, there are still millions of people in
(14:01):
our country who don't fully understand what opioids are, how
to protect ourselves, you know, from combining opioids with alcohol,
and how to protect ourselves when we're using opiods to
begin with, when it's appropriate versus not. We still have
so many people, for example, who store opioid medicines in
their medicine cabinet, and it turns out the medicine cabinet
is the worst place for that medicine because other people
(14:22):
when they come and visit, can often just easily go
and take those opioids. And this is actually what happens
in households all across America. Do you have the sense
of Congress as well into properly fund this. I mean,
if there's ever been a bipartisan or a nonpartisan national epidemic,
this is yes. And in it at a time where
a few things seem bipartisan, this stands out as as
as a rare opportunity, rare issue. I don't think though,
(14:46):
that many in Congress have shown the appetite to fund
the opiate epidemic at the level that it requires. What's
happening right now with the how we're funding the opiated
epidemic is we're providing oftentimes these one time grants to
communities that will run out after a short period of time,
and they're trying to figure out, in part, okay, we
(15:07):
get something up and running, what's going to sustain us
in years two, three, four, and five. But we're also
providing that support at a mere fraction of what's needed
to really turn the tide on the epidemic in those communities.
I think many members of Congress, and some of them
have told me this privately, they worry about the price
tag on a bill that would really adequately resource the epidemic,
(15:28):
because it would be at least ten times greater than
the numbers that you're seeing out there. But I think
what we have to realize is that the long term
cost of not funding that is far greater. Uh And
and this is why there's an urgency around this issue.
It's why you know, having people like you start discussing
this issue and helping raise public awareness are so important
(15:49):
because this is one of those times where we need
the public to push our policymakers not just to make
an investment, but to make the right investment. But I
lastly think though it's worth consider also that is in
all the discussions we have on opioids, in talking about
what's driving this epidemic, from you know, prescribing patterns, to
pharmaceutical companies marketing these medicines irresponsibly uh to the public,
(16:13):
to a whole host of other factors. There are also
some emotional factors that are driving this epidemic as well.
I was struck so often and heartbroken often when I
visited communities around the country. How behind the stories of
mental illness and addiction and even physical illness were often
stories of deeper emotional pain that people were experiencing. Sometimes
(16:34):
it was the pain of poverty, of discrimination. Sometimes it
was a pain that came with disability um Sometimes it
was a pain that came from not having a job
and not being able to find a job and feeling
like they were outcasts. Sometimes it was a pain of loneliness,
which is extremely common, much more so than we realized.
But whatever the pain source was, that deeper emotional pain
was often driving people to places of despair, and it
(16:57):
was manifesting often as disconnection from others. And I realized
that if we want to address the opiate epidemic, we
don't just need good treatment and counseling. We actually need community.
We need connection as well. There's nobody I have met
who has come through the dark tunnel of addiction and
emerged on the other side who has not had somebody
that they trust, who has believed in them, especially when
(17:19):
they were not able to believe in themselves. That is
why I think about the opiate epidemic is not only
an illness, but as a disease of disconnection in part.
And this is a place where each of us can
be helpful. You don't need a medical degree or a
nursing degree to be able to provide support and a
listening ear to somebody who is struggling with addiction, to
(17:39):
help them feel that they are not being judged for
an illness that's not a character flaw, but that's actually
a medical condition. And I will tell you that despite
my training as a doctor, despite all the years that
you know I put into learning how to treat in
biological illnesses, that the power of a family member, of
friend um building a loving, trusting relationship with someone is
(18:02):
far greater than any medicine I could prescribe, or any
treatment that I could give. And that's why I believe
that in the fight against the opiate addiction, that love
is in fact our most powerful medicine. It's one that
anyone can dispense, and it's one that we need now
more than ever. Our country was very lucky to have
you as our Surgeon General, and I thank you. The
(18:23):
only thing I'd like to say before we close to
the doubters is that no progress to human life would
ever be made if we never tried, because we couldn't
win every time. That's someone who's lived in a family
that's experienced addiction, who's what's friends bury their children. You
won't win them all, but you can win a lot,
(18:46):
and we have to try. Thank you very much, Thank you,
Mr President. We'll be right back. My name is Sarah Gad.
I'm a c g i U Clinton Global Initiative University alumni.
(19:06):
It was actually the very first time I decided to
share my story and my history with opioid addiction was
in that discussion room at c g i U. They
were just so supportive, and I realized, why have I
been so secretive about this for so long? I first
became addicted to opioids when I was in my third
(19:30):
year of medical school. I ended up in a pretty
horrific car accident which I remember nothing about. I woke
up in a hospital room with my leg in a sling.
I had undergone emergency surgery on my leg because my
ankle bone literally pierced through my skin and had to
(19:50):
be hammered and screwed back into place. So it was
a pretty long, pretty painful recovery process. And during that
time I was prescribed opioids like perk set An, OxyContin,
and at first I was just taking them for pain.
But as I was recovering, I was watching all of
my classmates graduate onto their fourth year of medical school.
(20:11):
Meanwhile I was bedridden and I was depressed. My opioid
prescription pain medication was by that point they had become
my only source of joy and happiness. And then maybe
about a year out after my accident, my doctor sat
down with me and was like, look, you cannot be
(20:31):
in this much pain this far out. Do you have
a dependency problem? And I denied it. I just didn't
want to acknowledge it. Once my doctor stopped prescribing me opioids,
I started going to see a bunch of other doctors
and then it didn't take too long for them to
(20:52):
figure out that I had been doctor shopping and so
as a third year medical student, I was familiar with
how to write prescriptions and that's what landed me in
legal trouble and got me arrested. And once you're criminalized
and you have a criminal record and arrest record, very
difficult to reintegrate back into society in any sort of
(21:15):
meaningful way. It was always just kind of the cycle
of going to jail and detoxing cold turkey and going
through the hell of physical withdrawal, getting out, trying to
get my life back on track, and then relapsing and
then going back to jail. And then I was incarcerated
for five days, and the day that I got out,
(21:36):
I actually ended up overdosing. It was just because my
tolerance had gone down so much during that period, and
I woke up in an ambulance being injected with narcan
and told that I had just overdosed on opioids. The
Centers for Disease Control reports that more than people died
(21:59):
from opioid to overdoses in two thousand sixteen. Addicts need
help without the fear of being stigmatized or arrested. The
crisis has become so widespread that the Surgeon General is
urging ordinary citizens to carry the locks on, a drug
that reverses the effects of a drug overdose and saves lives.
The only reason I survived was at that point we
(22:22):
had been given the locks on. The gentleman that I
was using with that his house knew how to administer it.
As I said when we were talking earlier with Dr Marthy,
this challenge is one that requires all hands on deck.
One of the most important partners that we've had is
(22:42):
Julie Stamper, a board member for the harm Reduction Coalition
and the locks On Advocate and someone who is an
indispensable force if we're ever going to turn this thing around. So, Julie,
why have you been so passionate about this for so long? First,
I'll say thank you so much for having me here
and and giving me a platform and for all the
(23:04):
work the Clinton Foundation has done, because you've been there
for years right along with me, and I come to
the work and the passion about the work, partly unwillingly
and partly proudly. Proudly because my stepfather, Jack Fishman, is
credited with inventing a lock zone in the nineteen sixties,
So anything that I can do to further his legacy
(23:26):
and a chance to talk about him. He passed a
few years ago, so he's we miss him greatly. So
for me to talk about in a lock zone means
I get to talk about him, But I also get
to talk about my brother, who died of an overdose
in two thousand three, so his legacy exists as well.
So for me, the unwilling part is that I had
to come in to do the work because I lost
(23:46):
my brother. But I'm proud to do the work because
of my stepfather and a lock zone has saved hundreds
of thousands of lives across the world. But now we
need to do more to make it because we're losing
people here all the time. You cite a mission of
your own endeavor? Is harm reduction? What does that mean?
It actually is what it sounds like. It's harm reduction,
(24:09):
reducing harm. We practice harm reduction every day. You get
up in the morning, you brush your teeth, you're using
a toothpaste that has fluoride in it. That's harm reduction.
You get in your car, you put your seatbelt on,
also harm reduction. You inject drugs and have an also nearby,
that's harm reduction. And even in that capacity with with
(24:31):
substance use, if you are an ivy drug user, you're
hopefully going to have access to clean syringes, sterile water,
any kind of rig anything that you need to inject
safely so that you're not getting infected. So anything that
we can do to reduce harm for people who use
drugs is key. So harm reduction is something that we
(24:52):
practice all the time. What role was reducing stigma and
harm reduction. Stigma is one of the biggest obstacles people
who use drugs face on a daily basis. We're trying
to do things by even just simply changing language. So
instead of referring to someone as an addict, we say
(25:15):
someone who uses drugs. All right, it's people first language.
So it's not what they do, it's who they are, right,
So it's simple, it's a it's very subtle even, but
what it does it actually honors that that you are
a person. You know, So, in terms of my history
with my brother and his substance use, my brother was
(25:37):
a junkie, all right. That was the word that was
used talking about my brother who I grew up with. Now,
all of a sudden, I'm supposed to call him a junkie,
and I did because that's what I was told. And
as a result of that, I lost years with my brother.
He barely met my children. Right, It's devastating to consider
what something, so what we think is simple stigma could
(25:58):
do because of this stigma attached to substance use. I
lost him before I actually lost him. So stigma plays
a big part in in preventing people who use drugs
from getting the help that they need. A lot of
the conversations that happened now. You know, we heard for
years about the war on drugs, and now we know
it was the wrong way to try to help the situation.
(26:23):
You know, we we we could go back to you know,
the commercial where you cracking the egg and the frying pan.
This is your brain and it is your brain on drugs.
This is your brain on drugs. And we became less
credible because of it, because it wasn't true in the
(26:47):
sense that you know, when we tell our children marijuana
will kill you, Uh, they look at us like we're
crazy because we're not telling them the truth. And so
we need to do more to tell the truth. And
you know, I've said this before and and I don't know,
maybe it's controversial. The reason we're having this conversation, you
(27:10):
and I right now is because more white people are
dying right this This epidemic has impacted black and brown
people in ways that we can't even fathom. And we
kind of not that we ignore it, but we just
kind of say, oh, well, it wasn't an issue then,
but now it's an issue because all these you know,
white teenagers are overdosing. So we need to recognize that
(27:34):
that's a big component of the stigma for sure, and
and one of our biggest obstacles. And and so I
I you know, I've said this before. Evolution is tremendous, right.
I came a long way from thinking my brother was
a junkie to now realizing no, he was a person
who had some serious issues and they were compounded by
(27:57):
his substance. Use, you, sir, have m a tremendous way,
and I applaud the effort and the willingness for you
to come to the place where you're at now to
try to help Stay tuned for more of the conversation
after this short break. I read a study sometime in
(28:24):
the last year that said most people who die of
overdoses are in effect not alone. There's somebody in the
room with them, or somebody in the next room, or
somebody in the house, or if they're outside, within twenty
ft of them, almost half, which means that, given the
scale of this opioid epidemic, it would be better if
(28:44):
in almost every social setting or work setting, somebody had
the locks on. What do you think we could do
to change the willingness of people to tote that around everywhere?
Because the more people who have it in their pocket
to better off. We are, absolutely so you know we
the last time you and I had a conversation, I
brought you an overdose prevention kit and one of the
(29:06):
things that I've shown people because if you if you've
seen the narcan that's out now, it's a teeny tiny
little box. I mean it's like a box of altoys
or tic TACs or you know, the breath mints that
you're going to keep in your bag. So I I joke,
but I mean it sincerely. Like if I'm going out
for an evening and I have my little evening bag,
I take a dose with me and it's in my bag.
(29:29):
Because you never know where you're gonna possibly encounter someone.
The opportunity to give someone the locks on who might
actually have access to someone who needs it is important,
and I think we should be doing something about making
sure restaurants have it. You know, any place where there
is a single use bathroom is a risk because that's
(29:51):
where someone might go to use drugs. We're now training
librarians because a lot of overdoses are happening in libraries,
so it's important. Oh yes, because there's always little corners
and their single use bathrooms. So yeah, no, we've got
to do a whole lot to get it out there.
I mean, I I have a friend who who owns
(30:12):
a restaurant, and I was like, let me give you
a kid so you can keep it behind the bar.
And I know, you know Clinton Foundation along with Emergent
Bio Solutions, the company that that produces narcan, making it
available for schools, universities, colleges. But maybe there should be
an effort for a one time you know, for for
the Starbucks location on the corner of whatever, that that
that the owner can can right in and get a kit.
(30:35):
And I you know, the conversations that I have had
with people over the years who wish they had had it,
that's what's sad. What have you told your children about opioids?
How do you deal with it? And blessed three times over?
I have three incredible boys, a nineteen year old, a
sixteen year old, and a twelve year old, and it's
(30:56):
it's I think for me, you know, I think about
the loss of my brother and them not not getting
to know their uncle who was super cool and funny
and a great singer and a guitar player, and and
my my youngest reminds me so much of my brother
sometimes that it's heartbreaking. But so when I think about
my brother's death, I think, if it's going to do anything,
(31:18):
it's going to help save my children because we talk
about Uncle Jonathan and why he's not here, and a
lot of that has an impact on them. You know,
when we've had conversations about when you go out into
the world and you may experiment with substances, your body
(31:39):
chemistry will likely react differently than somebody else's because you
have addiction around you. Both sides of the families have
struggles with addiction, so you have to be prepared for that.
So I I know I have conversations with my boys
that a lot of parents aren't capable of having, aren't
willing to have. That to me is the most important
(32:00):
right because they're the ones who were looking out for
It's their future, So we have to have these conversations
with them that I have a friend who shared with
me that her sixteen year old son was at a
party and there were children snorting Heroin sixteen and there
was no n a locks on. I want to strangle somebody,
because that's an easy fix. So I said to her,
(32:23):
let me give you a kit. He could put it
in his pocket. It is small enough, no one will know.
And of course the immediate responses, well, he would never
do that. And it's the same message I give to
my children. You're going out to a party, and my
older ones takeing a locks on with you, not for you,
for someone else, just in case. So we have to
talk to our children. We have talked to the parents
(32:44):
of children. We need to get in there and we
need to have real conversations because now we see you know,
when I do a training, I tell people the first
thing I say is you're gonna all walk out of
here superheroes, because you're going to be able to save
a life. If anybody's listening to me, you should think
about how much in the locks owner is in your
community and who's got it, and realize that most of
(33:06):
you with health insurance, particularly you live in open prescription cities,
could get it with a very small copae and disremember,
you never know when you're gonna need it. Thank you,
Thank you. Why Am I telling You? This is a
production of our Heart Radio, the Clinton Foundation and at
Will Media. Our executive producers are Craig Manascian and Will Malnadi.
(33:30):
Our production team includes Mitch Bluestein, Jamison cat Sufis, Tom Galton,
Sarah Harrows, and Jake Young, with production support from Tyler
Scott and Oltavia Young. Original music by What White. Special
thanks to John Sykes, Tina Flinois, John Davidson on hell Arena,
Corey Gantley, Oscar Flores, Kevin Thurm and all our dedicated
(33:54):
staff and partners at the Clinton Foundation. If you have
an idea of suggestion for the show, we'd love to
hear it from you, so please visit Clinton Foundation dot
org slash podcast to share your thoughts with us. If
you like the show, tell someone else about it. You
can subscribe to Who I Am I Telling You This
on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
(34:16):
you get your podcast. By listening to this podcast, you're
helping support the work of the Clinton Foundation. So thank you. Hi.
I'm Chris Thrasher, and I serve as the Senior Director
(34:37):
of Substance Use Disorders and recovery with the opiotor Sponse
Network at the Clinton Foundation. According to the Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention, each year we lose tens of
thousands of lives to an opiate overdose in the United States,
and now with COVID nineteen, this tragic and preventable epidemic
has only worsened and intensified. At the Clinton Foundation, we're
(35:02):
working to combat this crisis head on. We invite you
to learn more about our work and see how you
can get involved. Please visit us at Clinton Foundation dot org.
Slash Podcast
Like so many people across America, Hillary and I have
a personal connection to the opioid epidemic. I'll never forget
where I was when I heard that the son of
one of my very best friends, a bright, young twenty
eight year old who had worked for Hillary at the
State Department and who was pursuing both an MBA and
a law degree, had died in his sleep just before Christmas.
(00:23):
And we knew him well and liked him so much,
it just seemed impossible. Not long after, we learned that
he died of a lethal combination of alcohol and oxy
code on. Sadly, while he was the first person we
knew who suffered a fatal overdose, he wasn't the last.
(00:44):
Hillary and I now have five friends who have lost
their children to this epidemic. So why am I telling
you this? Because in America today, just about everyone knows
someone who's died, as it was, to an overdose. Drug
overdoses killed more Americans and HIV AIDS, car crashes, or
(01:05):
gun violence. Behind every one of these statistics is a
real person, someone with a real life, a real story,
and real people who love them. While so much of
our public health discourse over the last year has focused
on the COVID nineteen pandemic. The overdose epidemic remains an
urgent crisis, and the challenges of the COVID nineteen pandemic,
(01:29):
from isolation to unemployment to the shuttering of community resources
and gathering places, have had a disproportionate impact on people
struggling with substance abuse disorders. We've got to find a
way to turn the tide. Today's episode of Why Am
I Telling You This features someone who is one of
America's leading experts on the opioid and overdose epidemic, Dr
(01:53):
Vivit Murphy. Dr Murphy served as Surgeon General of the
United States from and was renominated by President Biden and
reconfirmed last month. We recorded this conversation back in and
I wish I could say it's no longer relevant, But unfortunately,
(02:13):
the overdose epidemic continues to rage across America, leaving unfinished
lives and broken hearts in its wake. The latest CDC
data shows that overdose deaths increased by for the twelve
months ending in September. Especially given that the pandemic has
cut off people's access to healthcare and support systems, we
(02:34):
need to recognize the impact it's having on people's mental
health and redouble our efforts to combat this crisis. Dr
Vivic Murphy, thanks for joining us. Thank you, Mr President.
You did something really remarkable in first issuing the first
Certain General's report ever on alcohol, drugs and health, and
(02:55):
at the same time, more remarkably to me, you actually
sent a let earn a card to two point three
million doctors, nurses, dentists, and other clinicians asking them to
help address the opioid epidemic. Now nobody had ever done
this before. Why did you, Well, thanks for the question,
Mr President, for having me joining this conversation on opioids.
(03:16):
When I began my time in office, I remember thinking
on my first day about my priorities on what they
should be. But I had this instinct to spend the
first few months on a listening tour, just visiting communities
across the country, and the issue that kept coming up
again and again and again was the issue of opioids,
and so I quickly realized that that needed to be
(03:37):
even higher on my priority list. It also dovetailed with
the personal experience that I had had as a clinician.
Uh you know, as a doctor, I took care of
patients over the years who struggled with all kinds of
chronic pain conditions, and I found myself prescribing opioids often.
I also, at the same time was seeing people come
in struggling with addiction to heroin, to prescription opioids, and
(03:59):
to other all manner of substances, and I began to
realize that there was a connection between the way we
were as doctors prescribing these pain medicines and what was
actually happening to our patients. I wish I had realized
that earlier, but I, like many doctors, was taught that
if we gave opioid medicines to someone who had quote
unquote legitimate pain, that they would not become addicted to
(04:20):
that substance. And why were we wrong? So coming into office,
when I realized that we had, inadvertently, as a profession,
contributed to the epidemic, you know, I realized that in
addition to publishing the first Surgeon General's Report on the
subject of addiction, we also needed to do more. We
needed to call our profession to action to rectify an
issue that we had helped create. And so that's why
(04:42):
I penned a personal letter to doctors and nurse practitioners
and dentists all across the country. And at the time
it was you know, I did it an instinct. I
didn't know quite what the reaction would be, but I
was gratified to hear from many doctors and nurses over
the coming months, UH that it actually changed how they practiced,
(05:02):
how they prescribed these kind of pain medications. And I
remember going to an oral surgeon actually recently to get
my own wisdom tooth pulled, uh, and he told me
that in addition to receiving that letter, that he had
made a decision when he read it that he was
going to stop prescribing percoset automatically to everyone who had
wisdom teeth removed. And he gave all of them his
(05:24):
personal cell phone number, and he braced for what he
thought would be an onslaught of calls from patients saying
that their pain wasn't well controlled on ibyprofen and they
needed something stronger. But days went by and the calls
never came, and he realized that, hey, we can actually
get by treating pain safely and effectively without necessarily using opioids.
(05:45):
I want to thank you for this. We live in
an age of denial about a lot of things. When
Chelsea was in high school, all our friends used to
say that denial it's not just a river in Egypt
and uh, And I think it takes a certain amount
of courage just to say I once thought the truth
was this, and I learned something and I changed. And
(06:07):
that's what I think more and more people have to
do about more and more issues, but especially this one.
Let's talk about this a little bit. I think a
lot of people know about the lock zone, and no,
it can bring people back, but it's just the first step.
So could you briefly describe what should be done to
someone who's overdosed, who's injected or inhaled the lock zone
(06:30):
and then comes back. That's the beginning, not the end
of this process. So describe how that works. Well. The
lockson is a really powerful medication and remarkably effective at
reversing the effects of opioids. And for people who have
who's breathing has been compromised by these medicines, they can
reverse that and enable them to breathe again. I've administered
(06:50):
in the locks on myself. I've seen just how rapidly
it acts, so it's good that we are getting that
medication to the hands at first responders and family members,
but for far too many people who overdose, the treatment
does stop there. And it's shocking how many people are
treated with the lock zone and go right back into
the community and often in fact, will get more prescriptions
for opiate medications. What we really need to do is
(07:13):
to bring those people in and connect them to treatment
right away, treatment often with medication assisted therapies including methodone Bupid,
Norphine UH and now trek Zone. And what we've realized
now is that there should be no wrong door to treatment.
So whether it's a first responder UH finding you having overdosed,
let's say, in the community, whether it's somebody in the
(07:35):
emergency room who encounters you, whether it's a somebody in
your place of employment who realizes that you have a
challenge with addiction. We have to find ways to create
channels which people can go from where they are in
their communities to getting directly connected to treatment. Right now,
it's too hard for people in communities across the country.
But if we can change that, and I think we
(07:56):
can take people who need and want treatment and actually
get them the life stating treatment that they deserve. I
think you made a really important point. I remember a
couple of summers ago, I was playing golf out on
a public golf course and all these folks gathered around me.
All they want to talk about was the open wood problem.
And there was only one young person there. All the
(08:17):
others walked away after about forty five minutes. He stayed
behind and said, thank you. I didn't know anybody like
you cared about this. I'm four days out of rehab,
and he said, I'm not worried about myself. I want
to live and now I know how. But he said,
I think it's a terrible shame that you've got to
have as much money as my family does to afford this.
(08:37):
You've got to do something to help the people that
have no money. So let's start with what the government
should do, or the federal land state government, how should that?
Where are we on that? Well, there's no question that
when of the big barriers to treatment is the cost
and the availability of these services, including the availability of
trained personnel. The problem is in part of funding issue.
(09:00):
In the last several years, we have seen Congress allocate
substantial amounts of money, several billion dollars in fact, but
the reality is that we need far more than a
few billion dollars to expand treatment sufficiently so that everyone
who needs care can get it. When we published the
Certain General's Report on Alcohol, Drugs and Health in one
of the things that we noted was that only one
(09:21):
in ten people who are struggling with the substance use
disorder actually getting treatment. And part of that is because
people can't get treatment, and part of it also has
to do with this stigma, the unfortunate stigma associated with
substance use disorders, which prevents people often from seeking help.
When I was traveling through Tennessee, for example, I met
many people who either had loved ones who are struggling
(09:42):
with an opiad use disorder or themselves were who refused
to talk to me if there were any cameras around,
And the reason was because they felt if somebody knew
that they had a problem and that they needed help,
that they would be ostracized not just by their neighbors,
but also by their doctors. And sadly, I did meet
doctors when I was in Tennessee and in other states
who didn't believe what they were reading about medication assist
(10:05):
to treatment who thought it was just another way of
perpetuating a dependence on opioids, and these unfortunate misconceptions, combined
with the lack of adequate funding, have combined to make
it too hard for people to get treatment. We have
evidence about what works. We know, for example, that medication
assists to treatment with these three medications in particular method
and guben orphine and now trek zone not only reduce
(10:28):
the risk of overdose, but they also reduce crime in communities.
They reduced the acquisition of needleborn infections like HIV and
hepatitis c UH. They are good overall. Um, there are still,
unfortunately a majority of treatment facilities in the country right
now which do not offer medication assists to treatment, and
(10:48):
that to me is uh is an unthinkable tragedy because
at a time where we know what works, for the
majority of treatment facilities, to not have what works and
to be charging people tends of thousands of dollars for
that treatment, UH is just it's just horrible, and that's
something that I think we absolutely need to change. Well,
let me ask you this, is it not offered because
(11:09):
the money is not there, or because there's a stigma
associated with the use of method on about for northern Well.
Partially this is about payment, but only partially. So I
think that once we get insurance programs of Medicaid and
private insurance to fully reimburse for the full suite of
medication assisted treatment UM, once we ensure that we actually
have adequate personnel trained to deliver that treatment, that will
(11:31):
help a lot. But the stigma piece that you brought
up is a is a really good point because I
have visited communities across the country where treatment is available,
but people will not access it because they are worried
that they will be looked down upon. You know, if
they engage in treatment that they will doctor in fact,
will look down upon them. And I visited communities that
do not want to invite treatment centers in because they
(11:52):
feel it will bring the wrong kind of people into
their community and because they have been led to believe
that this is uh that this treatment is just perpet
awaiting opiate addiction. If you understand like what's really happening
with the opia epidemic, you realize that this is not
about inviting quote unquote bad people in, but the people
who are struggling with opiate addiction are in all of
our communities anyway, there are friends, our neighbors, often family members,
(12:15):
and they struggle in the shadows though, unable to come
forward and share their stories because the unfortunate shame associated
with it. One of the things I've tried to do
is to get rid of stigma by getting the whole
community involved. We have this fight based initiative where we
have people from all fights traditions to gather to get
people to come together because everybody's congregation has got somebody
(12:38):
in it with this problem. Education, whether it's in in
school based settings grade school and colleges, or in workplaces
or through faith based organizations, can be remarkably effective. The
other thing that can happen in these settings is that
conversations can be started to actually share the real stories
of people who are struggling with addiction. This is hard
(12:59):
to do because in an environment where you're not sure
how you're going to be received. I can understand how
challenging it can be for someone struggling with an opiate
used disorder, for example, to come forward and say I
have a problem. But what I have seen time and
time again is that when people take that courageous step,
people all around them respond, sometimes often silently saying oh gosh,
(13:20):
I thought I was the only one, or I thought
my family was the only one impacted, but often vocally
as well, voicing their support. And I think of faith
organizations as powerful partners in this regard. They convene conversations
anyway on topics related to faith and life. More broadly,
their ability to convene conversations where people share their real
story with addiction can be extraordinarily powerful in helping to
(13:41):
remove some of that stigma. There are times when culture
trump's policy when it comes to ultimate impact, and this
is a place where the culture around addiction are underlying
belief around it. Uh is has to be addressed before
we're fully able to address the epidemic. As much as
we feel like we're reading about the opiate epidemic in
the Pay Purse, there are still millions of people in
(14:01):
our country who don't fully understand what opioids are, how
to protect ourselves, you know, from combining opioids with alcohol,
and how to protect ourselves when we're using opiods to
begin with, when it's appropriate versus not. We still have
so many people, for example, who store opioid medicines in
their medicine cabinet, and it turns out the medicine cabinet
is the worst place for that medicine because other people
(14:22):
when they come and visit, can often just easily go
and take those opioids. And this is actually what happens
in households all across America. Do you have the sense
of Congress as well into properly fund this. I mean,
if there's ever been a bipartisan or a nonpartisan national epidemic,
this is yes. And in it at a time where
a few things seem bipartisan, this stands out as as
as a rare opportunity, rare issue. I don't think though,
(14:46):
that many in Congress have shown the appetite to fund
the opiate epidemic at the level that it requires. What's
happening right now with the how we're funding the opiated
epidemic is we're providing oftentimes these one time grants to
communities that will run out after a short period of time,
and they're trying to figure out, in part, okay, we
(15:07):
get something up and running, what's going to sustain us
in years two, three, four, and five. But we're also
providing that support at a mere fraction of what's needed
to really turn the tide on the epidemic in those communities.
I think many members of Congress, and some of them
have told me this privately, they worry about the price
tag on a bill that would really adequately resource the epidemic,
(15:28):
because it would be at least ten times greater than
the numbers that you're seeing out there. But I think
what we have to realize is that the long term
cost of not funding that is far greater. Uh And
and this is why there's an urgency around this issue.
It's why you know, having people like you start discussing
this issue and helping raise public awareness are so important
(15:49):
because this is one of those times where we need
the public to push our policymakers not just to make
an investment, but to make the right investment. But I
lastly think though it's worth consider also that is in
all the discussions we have on opioids, in talking about
what's driving this epidemic, from you know, prescribing patterns, to
pharmaceutical companies marketing these medicines irresponsibly uh to the public,
(16:13):
to a whole host of other factors. There are also
some emotional factors that are driving this epidemic as well.
I was struck so often and heartbroken often when I
visited communities around the country. How behind the stories of
mental illness and addiction and even physical illness were often
stories of deeper emotional pain that people were experiencing. Sometimes
(16:34):
it was the pain of poverty, of discrimination. Sometimes it
was a pain that came with disability um Sometimes it
was a pain that came from not having a job
and not being able to find a job and feeling
like they were outcasts. Sometimes it was a pain of loneliness,
which is extremely common, much more so than we realized.
But whatever the pain source was, that deeper emotional pain
was often driving people to places of despair, and it
(16:57):
was manifesting often as disconnection from others. And I realized
that if we want to address the opiate epidemic, we
don't just need good treatment and counseling. We actually need community.
We need connection as well. There's nobody I have met
who has come through the dark tunnel of addiction and
emerged on the other side who has not had somebody
that they trust, who has believed in them, especially when
(17:19):
they were not able to believe in themselves. That is
why I think about the opiate epidemic is not only
an illness, but as a disease of disconnection in part.
And this is a place where each of us can
be helpful. You don't need a medical degree or a
nursing degree to be able to provide support and a
listening ear to somebody who is struggling with addiction, to
(17:39):
help them feel that they are not being judged for
an illness that's not a character flaw, but that's actually
a medical condition. And I will tell you that despite
my training as a doctor, despite all the years that
you know I put into learning how to treat in
biological illnesses, that the power of a family member, of
friend um building a loving, trusting relationship with someone is
(18:02):
far greater than any medicine I could prescribe, or any
treatment that I could give. And that's why I believe
that in the fight against the opiate addiction, that love
is in fact our most powerful medicine. It's one that
anyone can dispense, and it's one that we need now
more than ever. Our country was very lucky to have
you as our Surgeon General, and I thank you. The
(18:23):
only thing I'd like to say before we close to
the doubters is that no progress to human life would
ever be made if we never tried, because we couldn't
win every time. That's someone who's lived in a family
that's experienced addiction, who's what's friends bury their children. You
won't win them all, but you can win a lot,
(18:46):
and we have to try. Thank you very much, Thank you,
Mr President. We'll be right back. My name is Sarah Gad.
I'm a c g i U Clinton Global Initiative University alumni.
(19:06):
It was actually the very first time I decided to
share my story and my history with opioid addiction was
in that discussion room at c g i U. They
were just so supportive, and I realized, why have I
been so secretive about this for so long? I first
became addicted to opioids when I was in my third
(19:30):
year of medical school. I ended up in a pretty
horrific car accident which I remember nothing about. I woke
up in a hospital room with my leg in a sling.
I had undergone emergency surgery on my leg because my
ankle bone literally pierced through my skin and had to
(19:50):
be hammered and screwed back into place. So it was
a pretty long, pretty painful recovery process. And during that
time I was prescribed opioids like perk set An, OxyContin,
and at first I was just taking them for pain.
But as I was recovering, I was watching all of
my classmates graduate onto their fourth year of medical school.
(20:11):
Meanwhile I was bedridden and I was depressed. My opioid
prescription pain medication was by that point they had become
my only source of joy and happiness. And then maybe
about a year out after my accident, my doctor sat
down with me and was like, look, you cannot be
(20:31):
in this much pain this far out. Do you have
a dependency problem? And I denied it. I just didn't
want to acknowledge it. Once my doctor stopped prescribing me opioids,
I started going to see a bunch of other doctors
and then it didn't take too long for them to
(20:52):
figure out that I had been doctor shopping and so
as a third year medical student, I was familiar with
how to write prescriptions and that's what landed me in
legal trouble and got me arrested. And once you're criminalized
and you have a criminal record and arrest record, very
difficult to reintegrate back into society in any sort of
(21:15):
meaningful way. It was always just kind of the cycle
of going to jail and detoxing cold turkey and going
through the hell of physical withdrawal, getting out, trying to
get my life back on track, and then relapsing and
then going back to jail. And then I was incarcerated
for five days, and the day that I got out,
(21:36):
I actually ended up overdosing. It was just because my
tolerance had gone down so much during that period, and
I woke up in an ambulance being injected with narcan
and told that I had just overdosed on opioids. The
Centers for Disease Control reports that more than people died
(21:59):
from opioid to overdoses in two thousand sixteen. Addicts need
help without the fear of being stigmatized or arrested. The
crisis has become so widespread that the Surgeon General is
urging ordinary citizens to carry the locks on, a drug
that reverses the effects of a drug overdose and saves lives.
The only reason I survived was at that point we
(22:22):
had been given the locks on. The gentleman that I
was using with that his house knew how to administer it.
As I said when we were talking earlier with Dr Marthy,
this challenge is one that requires all hands on deck.
One of the most important partners that we've had is
(22:42):
Julie Stamper, a board member for the harm Reduction Coalition
and the locks On Advocate and someone who is an
indispensable force if we're ever going to turn this thing around. So, Julie,
why have you been so passionate about this for so long? First,
I'll say thank you so much for having me here
and and giving me a platform and for all the
(23:04):
work the Clinton Foundation has done, because you've been there
for years right along with me, and I come to
the work and the passion about the work, partly unwillingly
and partly proudly. Proudly because my stepfather, Jack Fishman, is
credited with inventing a lock zone in the nineteen sixties,
So anything that I can do to further his legacy
(23:26):
and a chance to talk about him. He passed a
few years ago, so he's we miss him greatly. So
for me to talk about in a lock zone means
I get to talk about him, But I also get
to talk about my brother, who died of an overdose
in two thousand three, so his legacy exists as well.
So for me, the unwilling part is that I had
to come in to do the work because I lost
(23:46):
my brother. But I'm proud to do the work because
of my stepfather and a lock zone has saved hundreds
of thousands of lives across the world. But now we
need to do more to make it because we're losing
people here all the time. You cite a mission of
your own endeavor? Is harm reduction? What does that mean?
It actually is what it sounds like. It's harm reduction,
(24:09):
reducing harm. We practice harm reduction every day. You get
up in the morning, you brush your teeth, you're using
a toothpaste that has fluoride in it. That's harm reduction.
You get in your car, you put your seatbelt on,
also harm reduction. You inject drugs and have an also nearby,
that's harm reduction. And even in that capacity with with
(24:31):
substance use, if you are an ivy drug user, you're
hopefully going to have access to clean syringes, sterile water,
any kind of rig anything that you need to inject
safely so that you're not getting infected. So anything that
we can do to reduce harm for people who use
drugs is key. So harm reduction is something that we
(24:52):
practice all the time. What role was reducing stigma and
harm reduction. Stigma is one of the biggest obstacles people
who use drugs face on a daily basis. We're trying
to do things by even just simply changing language. So
instead of referring to someone as an addict, we say
(25:15):
someone who uses drugs. All right, it's people first language.
So it's not what they do, it's who they are, right,
So it's simple, it's a it's very subtle even, but
what it does it actually honors that that you are
a person. You know, So, in terms of my history
with my brother and his substance use, my brother was
(25:37):
a junkie, all right. That was the word that was
used talking about my brother who I grew up with. Now,
all of a sudden, I'm supposed to call him a junkie,
and I did because that's what I was told. And
as a result of that, I lost years with my brother.
He barely met my children. Right, It's devastating to consider
what something, so what we think is simple stigma could
(25:58):
do because of this stigma attached to substance use. I
lost him before I actually lost him. So stigma plays
a big part in in preventing people who use drugs
from getting the help that they need. A lot of
the conversations that happened now. You know, we heard for
years about the war on drugs, and now we know
it was the wrong way to try to help the situation.
(26:23):
You know, we we we could go back to you know,
the commercial where you cracking the egg and the frying pan.
This is your brain and it is your brain on drugs.
This is your brain on drugs. And we became less
credible because of it, because it wasn't true in the
(26:47):
sense that you know, when we tell our children marijuana
will kill you, Uh, they look at us like we're
crazy because we're not telling them the truth. And so
we need to do more to tell the truth. And
you know, I've said this before and and I don't know,
maybe it's controversial. The reason we're having this conversation, you
(27:10):
and I right now is because more white people are
dying right this This epidemic has impacted black and brown
people in ways that we can't even fathom. And we
kind of not that we ignore it, but we just
kind of say, oh, well, it wasn't an issue then,
but now it's an issue because all these you know,
white teenagers are overdosing. So we need to recognize that
(27:34):
that's a big component of the stigma for sure, and
and one of our biggest obstacles. And and so I
I you know, I've said this before. Evolution is tremendous, right.
I came a long way from thinking my brother was
a junkie to now realizing no, he was a person
who had some serious issues and they were compounded by
(27:57):
his substance. Use, you, sir, have m a tremendous way,
and I applaud the effort and the willingness for you
to come to the place where you're at now to
try to help Stay tuned for more of the conversation
after this short break. I read a study sometime in
(28:24):
the last year that said most people who die of
overdoses are in effect not alone. There's somebody in the
room with them, or somebody in the next room, or
somebody in the house, or if they're outside, within twenty
ft of them, almost half, which means that, given the
scale of this opioid epidemic, it would be better if
(28:44):
in almost every social setting or work setting, somebody had
the locks on. What do you think we could do
to change the willingness of people to tote that around everywhere?
Because the more people who have it in their pocket
to better off. We are, absolutely so you know we
the last time you and I had a conversation, I
brought you an overdose prevention kit and one of the
(29:06):
things that I've shown people because if you if you've
seen the narcan that's out now, it's a teeny tiny
little box. I mean it's like a box of altoys
or tic TACs or you know, the breath mints that
you're going to keep in your bag. So I I joke,
but I mean it sincerely. Like if I'm going out
for an evening and I have my little evening bag,
I take a dose with me and it's in my bag.
(29:29):
Because you never know where you're gonna possibly encounter someone.
The opportunity to give someone the locks on who might
actually have access to someone who needs it is important,
and I think we should be doing something about making
sure restaurants have it. You know, any place where there
is a single use bathroom is a risk because that's
(29:51):
where someone might go to use drugs. We're now training
librarians because a lot of overdoses are happening in libraries,
so it's important. Oh yes, because there's always little corners
and their single use bathrooms. So yeah, no, we've got
to do a whole lot to get it out there.
I mean, I I have a friend who who owns
(30:12):
a restaurant, and I was like, let me give you
a kid so you can keep it behind the bar.
And I know, you know Clinton Foundation along with Emergent
Bio Solutions, the company that that produces narcan, making it
available for schools, universities, colleges. But maybe there should be
an effort for a one time you know, for for
the Starbucks location on the corner of whatever, that that
that the owner can can right in and get a kit.
(30:35):
And I you know, the conversations that I have had
with people over the years who wish they had had it,
that's what's sad. What have you told your children about opioids?
How do you deal with it? And blessed three times over?
I have three incredible boys, a nineteen year old, a
sixteen year old, and a twelve year old, and it's
(30:56):
it's I think for me, you know, I think about
the loss of my brother and them not not getting
to know their uncle who was super cool and funny
and a great singer and a guitar player, and and
my my youngest reminds me so much of my brother
sometimes that it's heartbreaking. But so when I think about
my brother's death, I think, if it's going to do anything,
(31:18):
it's going to help save my children because we talk
about Uncle Jonathan and why he's not here, and a
lot of that has an impact on them. You know,
when we've had conversations about when you go out into
the world and you may experiment with substances, your body
(31:39):
chemistry will likely react differently than somebody else's because you
have addiction around you. Both sides of the families have
struggles with addiction, so you have to be prepared for that.
So I I know I have conversations with my boys
that a lot of parents aren't capable of having, aren't
willing to have. That to me is the most important
(32:00):
right because they're the ones who were looking out for
It's their future, So we have to have these conversations
with them that I have a friend who shared with
me that her sixteen year old son was at a
party and there were children snorting Heroin sixteen and there
was no n a locks on. I want to strangle somebody,
because that's an easy fix. So I said to her,
(32:23):
let me give you a kit. He could put it
in his pocket. It is small enough, no one will know.
And of course the immediate responses, well, he would never
do that. And it's the same message I give to
my children. You're going out to a party, and my
older ones takeing a locks on with you, not for you,
for someone else, just in case. So we have to
talk to our children. We have talked to the parents
(32:44):
of children. We need to get in there and we
need to have real conversations because now we see you know,
when I do a training, I tell people the first
thing I say is you're gonna all walk out of
here superheroes, because you're going to be able to save
a life. If anybody's listening to me, you should think
about how much in the locks owner is in your
community and who's got it, and realize that most of
(33:06):
you with health insurance, particularly you live in open prescription cities,
could get it with a very small copae and disremember,
you never know when you're gonna need it. Thank you,
Thank you. Why Am I telling You? This is a
production of our Heart Radio, the Clinton Foundation and at
Will Media. Our executive producers are Craig Manascian and Will Malnadi.
(33:30):
Our production team includes Mitch Bluestein, Jamison cat Sufis, Tom Galton,
Sarah Harrows, and Jake Young, with production support from Tyler
Scott and Oltavia Young. Original music by What White. Special
thanks to John Sykes, Tina Flinois, John Davidson on hell Arena,
Corey Gantley, Oscar Flores, Kevin Thurm and all our dedicated
(33:54):
staff and partners at the Clinton Foundation. If you have
an idea of suggestion for the show, we'd love to
hear it from you, so please visit Clinton Foundation dot
org slash podcast to share your thoughts with us. If
you like the show, tell someone else about it. You
can subscribe to Who I Am I Telling You This
on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
(34:16):
you get your podcast. By listening to this podcast, you're
helping support the work of the Clinton Foundation. So thank you. Hi.
I'm Chris Thrasher, and I serve as the Senior Director
(34:37):
of Substance Use Disorders and recovery with the opiotor Sponse
Network at the Clinton Foundation. According to the Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention, each year we lose tens of
thousands of lives to an opiate overdose in the United States,
and now with COVID nineteen, this tragic and preventable epidemic
has only worsened and intensified. At the Clinton Foundation, we're
(35:02):
working to combat this crisis head on. We invite you
to learn more about our work and see how you
can get involved. Please visit us at Clinton Foundation dot org.
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