May 20, 2021 • 37 mins
The explosion in media platforms - from streaming services to podcasts - means more programming is being produced and consumed than ever before. But despite the boom in content, representation of Latinos in major roles in film, television and on stage still doesn’t match the significant role the Latino community plays in American life.
People deserve to feel that their lives and stories are important and worthy of being told. At their best, TV and film characters can help us break down stereotypes so that people of all backgrounds believe they can chart their own course in life and achieve whatever role they want to play, whether on screen or in society.
Jimmy Smits has spent his career bringing to life some of the most memorable characters we've ever seen in shows and movies from “LA Law,” “NYPD Blue,” and “The West Wing,” to “Dexter,” “Sons of Anarchy,” and “Star Wars.” As a co-founder of the National Hispanic Foundation for the Arts, he's also worked tirelessly to improve representation and given hundreds of promising young Latino students the opportunity to pursue their dreams in the arts.
On the season one finale of “Why Am I Telling You This?,” Jimmy joins President Clinton to discuss how he approaches his craft and some of his favorite characters, his role in the upcoming film adaptation of Lin-Manuel Miranda’s “In The Heights,” and his work to expand opportunities for Latinos in front of and behind the camera.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
It's been more than twenty years now since I left
the White House, but one question I still got to
ask all the time is what was the best part
of living in the White House. Well, most importantly, living
in the White House means the American people have given
you the honor of serving our country and the best
self in the world. But there are also a lot
of other great parts about it. You walk around through history,
(00:32):
which you see in paintings and sculpture, in the old
clocks everywhere. You get the chance to work in the
Oval office, which even on the cloudy iss Ranius days,
is full of light. There's a good bowling alley in
the basement, a nice swimming pool outside, and maybe above
all else, there's a wonderful movie theater. Our family really
(00:53):
loved watching movies in the White House Theater, whether alone
or with guests at special occasions. With the course of
my presidency, we screened dozens and dozens of movies, both
keeping up with new releases and rewatching old favorites. Since
we could watch any movie from the comfort of our home,
you may wonder why in May Hillary and I chose
(01:16):
instead to go out to the theater to see one
the premiere of Me Familiar, the story of a Mexican
American family in East Los Angeles. The answer is simple,
that had a great cast and a great story, and
we wanted to give our support publicly to a movie
that was helping to show what our American family really
(01:39):
looks like. So why am I telling you this? Because
representation in film and television, on stage, and in other
media really matters. People deserve to feel that their lives
and stories are important and worthy of being told, and
it's equally crucial that we tear down stereotypes so that
(02:00):
people have all about grounds believe they can achieve whatever
role they want to play, whether on screen or in
real life. There's no one who has worked harder to
make that a reality than my guest today, Jimmy Smith's Jimmy,
who also happens to be one of the stars of
Me Familia, has spent more than thirty years creating some
(02:22):
of the most memorable characters we've seen, from lawyers to
police officers, from taxi dispatchers to the President of the
United States. He's not only entertained us, but he's helped
to change the face of movies, television, and the stage
and As a co founder of the National Hispanic Foundation
(02:42):
for the Arts, he's worked heartlessly to improve representation and
given hundreds of promising young Latino students the opportunity to
pursue their dreams in the arts through scholarships. You know
him from L. A. Law, N Y P. D, Blue, Dexter,
The West Wing, Sons of Anarchy, Star Wars, and much more.
(03:05):
And next month you will know him as Kevin and
the film adaptation of Lin Manuel Miranda's Wonderful in the Heights. Jimmy,
thanks so much for being here. Indeed, my honor, Mr President,
thank you, thanks for the appreciate it. Most of us
got to know you when you broke through is Victor C.
(03:25):
Fluentez on L. A. Law. And since then we watch
you bring an incredible range of characters to life, tell
us about life and influences. Before most of us got
to know you on screen, at what point did you
decide you wanted to pursue acting? Not an easy path regardless,
(03:45):
and especially because, as you said, you didn't see many
examples of letting know actors to follow. I think the
fact that we moved around a lot of the family
in New York mostly but for a time. We lived
in Puerto Rico as well, and I think having to
adapt to new environments because it's I come from a
(04:12):
working class family, uh, and sometimes things times were good
and sometimes times were not great. So we lived in
all types of neighborhoods, sometimes with other extended family members. Um.
And because of that, I think as a as a
young person, I was always trying to fit into a
new environment or having to speak another language that I
(04:36):
wasn't as familiar with, and and I think that was
where the seeds were planted. Uh. I love doing impersonations
when I was young for my dad's poker buddies, Nikita
Khrushchev banging banging his his shoe at a table, or
(05:01):
Ed Sullivan introducing uh the Beatles and then putting on
Mom's wagon. So that it was those little things that
is that trying to fit in. That's that's what I
keep seeing when I look back. And then in terms
of the education process, you know, every and every immigrant
(05:23):
family wants their their child, their children to do better.
And education was a big thing for my family, and
it started in junior high school. With regards to theater.
I went to junior high school in Brooklyn called George
Gershwin Junior High School, So you know from the name
that there was a musical theater bent and there was
(05:46):
a couple of music teachers there that did school plays
and we went through the cannon of Rogerson Hammerstein over
and over again. And uh so that's where it started.
In high school, there was another it was al is A.
There was always an educational person along the way that
gave me a little pushed to the next level. There
(06:08):
was a high school teacher that was taught drama in
English literature and he took us to go see Broadway plays.
So it was in the seventies. It was an exposure
to to seeing Shakespeare and Shaw and and there was
always times where there were people that I could see
(06:34):
seeing it is permission to aspire in a way, you know,
in terms of representation. So to see somebody like James
Earl Jones and Raoul Julia in the theater really impressed me.
And because I saw the commonalities and uh and I
(06:57):
wasn't a great student Mr President in school, but uh
I found that when I could put my energies towards
researching a role that I was doing, I would I
could spend hours in the library trying to find out
why eighteenth century cups were made the way they were.
You know, I could. So it was my handle that
(07:19):
I found that I found something that I h I
thought that I was good at that that I loved,
that there was a love there and so I was
able to apply those things that I got from those
teachers and and feel good. So that's where that's where
(07:40):
the bug the bug was hit. And then in school,
in high school, it was about going to you know,
being going to going to college. And then a professor
there who was was a professional actor, and one of
our professors said, you know, you probably could go to
l a and be the crook of the week on
some TV show, but you've shown interest in the classics,
(08:03):
and I think you should think about graduate school and
trying to amass more tools in your toolbox because what
we do as a craft. So that's applied to a
number of graduate schools and got accepted Cornell University, who
had at that time had a very small, almost monastic
(08:27):
type of program. The education process has been the key
for me, Mr President, and it's one of the reasons,
you know, you mentioned the Hispanic Foundation for the arts
that tried to kind of pass that along my my
my mother, with her religious background, always said, you know,
(08:50):
look look over your shoulder at for the person who's
right behind you and try to give a helping hand.
So every he chooses their path in our business, there's
no right way of the different paths that you wind
up wind up choosing. And for me, the educational process
has been, uh the key in a lot of respects
(09:13):
to uh to literature too, doing what I love and
and to having that you know, that toolbox. And then
there's there's preparation and then there's you know, opportunity and
a little bit of luck. And uh so coming coming
back to New York, there was it just started in
(09:37):
terms of what working off Broadway and and doing doing
stuff here and there, and then you know, working on
working on television. How many years were you in Puerto
Rico too, Well, we uh, you know, there was always
the the Christmas, the summers. But when I had to
(09:58):
go to school, when I was scared, that was two.
It was like during the wonder years that you know,
nine to eleven. And did you did you have to
improve your Spanish when you went down there to communicate? Oh? Oh,
it's it was like, uh, into the frying pan. And
and culture for me, like really American culture, just the
immigration process was reversed, so culture just ceased in a way.
(10:22):
There was no more Ed Sullivan and the Beatles. And
it wasn't as uh, it wasn't the primary focus I was.
I was immersed in, you know, different types of music
and things that I knew, but on a daily basis,
the politics of the island, all of the all of
(10:43):
those things, um and and now you know, looking back,
it was a very traumatic time for me because again
trying to fit in and being called a Yankee as
a kid in during those years when I was going
to school, You're Yankee? What do you mean? I mean cheap?
But but it is the it's the formation of everything
(11:06):
that I am as an adult to night. My feelings
about culture and music and all and what I do
in terms of my roles are influenced by by that time.
And do you still go back every now and then? Absolutely? Absolutely,
And and I just want to thank you for what
you know. September September twenty two, thousand seventeen was the
(11:33):
day that we all remember on the island in terms
of Hurricane Carocine Maria and what happened, and in terms
of like what my mother said looking over his shoulder
and trying to give a helping hand, thank you very
much with the with c g I and what your
initiative has done to help. Well, that was interesting. I've
(11:55):
always loved going down there. I love the feeling of it.
I like the culture, and we were trying to help
and still are trying to help working down there in
the aftermath of all these storms, which are have become
more numerous and more intense. No one in Puerto Rico
doubts that the climate is changing. But I remember walking
down the streets of after I had done my day's work.
(12:17):
But we just took a walk down through the old
part of San Juan, and I looked up and there
was a group of electrical workers, not just from New York,
but people who had worked in my little town, Chaffaqua,
and they were saying, you know, we we have trees
(12:38):
knocked down in winter storms and all that, and wires
getting messed up. So I'd actually run into these guys
as a citizen, not because I was president, just walking
the streets after a winter storm, and there they were
trying to help Puerto Rico, and I think that we
forget that there. Puerto Rico has a lot of it's
citizens in American now doing well and making a difference
(13:01):
end and it'll be interesting to see what happens in
the years ahead. Economically, it's because it's always been a
kind of bell Weather, I think for financial status with
regards to the country. And we talked about infrastructure, that
the infrastructure there really needs a lot of help. There's
still you know, two thousand seventeen, there's still thousand blue
(13:25):
tarps still from Maria. And so thank you for doing
your part. Well, we have the aft, keep it going.
We'll be right back. Let's talk a little about In
the Heights. Why do you want to be a part
(13:45):
of this and how much the growing up in New
York City give you a feel for in the Heights?
And hen did you see it when it was on Broadway?
I saw it before I was on Broadway. I saw
it off Broadway. I was. I have a friend of
a friend who worked at a place called the that's
no longer there. It's called the Drama Bookstore. I remember.
(14:08):
If you go, you can go get any play and
it's a place that that a young Lynn Manuel Miranda
used to go and and replays, and they did a
reading him and his Wellesley and crew did a reading
(14:29):
of that played down in the basement. They have a
little time theater there, and my friend who I went
to college with had emailed me and said, you know,
there's some kids down there that are really They were
really they really got it there the next wave and
I got to see that that particular production in the
(14:50):
off Broadway iteration, and I was just amazed that there
was such positivity there about that story and and so
current but at the same time giving kind of like
a history of a neighborhood through a very specific lens,
but following the tropes of a Broadway musical, giving joy
(15:12):
at the same time, you know, and very impressed with Lynn.
The themes in the story are just something that speaks
to me. And although through a very specific lens there
they speak of the because of specific lends with regards
to the community that you're seeing, but it speaks of
(15:37):
what America is about, family, community, where is home, all
those things that we just talked about before. And the
director of the piece, John Chow, who directed Crazy Rich Asians,
I think it's the perfect director for this because he
(15:57):
you know, he embodies the same types of sentiment from
another perspective maybe, but the same senses of community and
all of those things. And and I'm just I'm I'm
proud of what what Lynn did with the play, how
he was able to open it up with Chiara who
(16:19):
this who's the screenwriter? And then and then what John
has done with these in terms of the cinematic contribution,
all of these flourishes that are in the film towards
old Hollywood that audiences I think we'll connect with in
the In the movie, you play the father of one
of those young people that you've tried to help along.
(16:42):
Leslie Gryce is a very gifted young Dominican. Was that
fun for you? Super talented? Leslie is musically and just
gave herself, opened herself in terms of um being on
a big movie set, being one of the leads in
in this film, And it was fun for me because
(17:07):
we were able to in terms of our scenes, we
were able to connect on that father and daughter level.
And uh and and just watch her work was incredible,
as is all of the principles in in the film.
I guess I should say I don't want to give
any of the movie away, but I guess, you know,
I should say that In the Heights is somewhat different
(17:33):
from the Broadway version because it was updated to take
into account, you know, development since the play was first performed.
And in this movie, your daughter, uh has gone to
Stanford a long way away, and then it is having
(17:55):
reservations about it. I won't say any more about that,
but since my daughter to Stanford and I think to
get as far away from Washing do see as she could,
much to her mother's this naight, uh, but it was
a great move for it, and it was uh uh.
(18:17):
We're all doing that all the time. We're all simultaneously
trying to come home and go away, you know, keep going.
But she that that particular character, she she she finds
her way, she finds a purpose. And one of the
things you're you're alluding to is this this brushstroke in
terms of opening the film up dealing with the Dreamers situation,
(18:40):
and she, uh, she finds new purpose in in that. Yeah.
I think the Dreamers clearly have a lot of support
in America, and I keep hoping that that can be
the beginning of a sensible emmigrant ration reform. Having these
(19:02):
wars over immigration is a big mistake. This country needs
it's immigrants, and uh, I notice the other day the
great economist Paul Krugman, who writes in The New York Times,
says that he believes that and I agree with him
(19:26):
on this, that we were right to be spending a
lot of money now from the government coffers to try
to get the economy going again and get back to
the jobs we lost at least, you know, in the
in the COVID recession, which was steep and deep and quick.
But he said, the truth is that we could be
(19:46):
into a long, long period of economic slow down just
because the populations aren't growing. Every country in the world,
without regard to their religion, or their culture or their politics,
every country, once they start to grow and they put
(20:08):
girls in school and give women access to the workplace
in the education, the birth rate inevitably drops, and a
couple of years ago America's birth rate dropped below replacement
level for the native born. Our only way to continue
to grow is to have a responsible immigration policy and
(20:33):
say America is an idea, not an ethnic group, and
you can come here if you believe in the rule
of law and the freedom of all people to live
and work together and grow together and learn from each other.
And it is maybe the single biggest thing we face.
(20:54):
Our ability to continue to bill shared prosperity, our ability
to get together and handle climate change, our ability to,
you know, once again, find a way to counter rising
violence in our cities without having police practices that wind
up with unarmed people wanted for minor offenses being shot.
(21:17):
You don't. That's all these things that we're dealing with
at root work better if you have a democracy based
on certain behavioral instincts. I might learn suffering from this person.
We'll be right back. Let me ask you something about
(21:41):
this we were talking about a little before we started
the program. But you have played this incredible range of characters,
including I noted when I was doing some research for
this that you actually were in at least two productions
of Shakespeare in the Park, something we do in the summertime,
and in Central Park showing Shakespeare's place. You did l
(22:05):
A Law, then you did in Y p D. Blue,
and you got nominated I think totally eleven times for
Emmys and both of them. How hard did you have
to work as an actor and how conscious were you
that I need to present this person whole, warts and all,
but still whole, basically good or strong or struggling. But
(22:31):
if it's a dark character, they're not all dark. If
it's a light character, it's not all light. It's how
how much were you aware of that and all of
your roles that you had to present not a cartoon
but a person. I've been very lucky, Mr President, in
terms of the people that I've worked with that it
(22:52):
was on the page, so that helps. Sometimes it's not
there on the page, but it's your responsibility as an
actor to flesh out a backstory for a particular character.
I was talking about the tools in the toolbox because
it's a it's a craft. So as part of the job,
(23:14):
you try to do as much research as you can,
time permitting, and keep that ongoing, talking to people who
are in the profession, different perspectives, um and and then
trying to flush out with the writers. Hopefully in television
it's a it's a more fluid process because it can change.
(23:35):
You have much more time, so the canvas can open
up a bit more. But certainly in the work gun
NYPD Blue, the writer had a kind of schematic that
all of these characters had a something dark and somber
about them, as positive as they could be, but there
(23:57):
was something also that informed them character wise that the
audience could engage with. So they would want to see
how because they knew they understood what the character schematic
was of sip Witz, the sipo Wits character, the Simone character,
(24:18):
the somberness that he might have exhibited that they knew.
They you would have the framework of an ongoing series
proceed in terms of procedural, but you had character points
that the audience could kind of grasp onto. So what
(24:41):
you're talking about in terms of flushing out of particular character,
that's part of what the process is to try to
make him, him or her three dimensional. Well, let's talk
about one character that I'm curious about. I was a
big fan of the West Wing and uh do like
actually came and spend some time at the White House,
(25:02):
and several the others folks did too, And I thought
it had a better chance to succeed because it was
an ensemble story. That is, you can make something interesting
happens every week in the White House to somebody who
works there, who has an important job so it was real.
The West Wing was this flowing, amazing group of characters,
(25:28):
and in the fullness of time you emerge as Matt
Santos and you become president. So there you are our
first Latino president. What kind of reaction did you get?
How how did you feel about playing the character? He's
a politician, he's not a you know, an angel, but
(25:49):
a compelling person. And the fact that this person from
a different type of heritage that you might expect what
would be some of the dynamics that would be involved
in that campaign process. He happened to be from from Texas,
that that character, and so that came into play. And
(26:15):
the whole dynamic of how you feel like do you
feel like you're being handled as a candidate with the
people that surround you. Um, that was a that was
a dynamic that we explored and the campaign process it was.
It was fascinating for me to be able to deal with.
(26:39):
There were times when I thought about you, sir, from
the time that we spent in terms of how someone
in the in this particular process communicates directly with people.
You talk about this in your podcast. Everybody has a story,
but when you have the ability to kind of make
(27:03):
the person that you're talking to engage with them in
the sense that tell me your story because it helps.
That's something that's a quality in terms of a successful
candidate that I that I absorbed just from watching you, sir,
uh and then talking to all the politicians also as well.
(27:26):
I guess I should tell our listeners that Jimmy was
good enough to campaign with me in Texas. Uh. And
and I had a different reaction. I was watching you
and I thought, God, I'm glad I'm not running against
that guy. Yeah, you were good. You had a unnatural
(27:49):
feel and it was obvious to me you cared about
the people we were down there talking to. So but
I think that that was an important stay up in television.
We did a debate episode that remains to me one
of the highlights of you know, I can kind of
in my hand, but we had we had a live
(28:10):
debate that we did. It was like doing a play
that Lawrence O'Donnell was the right around that particular episode
and Allen and all Allda and I it was you
still had the machinations of what was going on behind
the scenes with all of the you know, the handlers
(28:32):
and the staff, but it was basically what the candidates
perspectives were. You know, I think those I think those
debates are important, and interestingly enough, they still make a difference.
And uh, at least through there was so much polarization
(28:56):
in twenty there was more. But still the debates matter
because it's one of the few times you get to
actually see this person instead of see what their enemies,
that their promoters are saying about them. And so the
people who can still be reached by argument and feel
(29:19):
I think are affected by them. And anyway, you did
a great job. You were You were good in the movie,
and you were better on the ground in Texas. It
may not movie in the TV show. Um tell me
what happened with a Blessed City law? I liked it, Hillary,
and I liked it, Thank you. I always dreamed of
(29:41):
being in law practice with her, and my daughter never
wanted to be a lawyer. She got into public health
and loved it and stayed and I'm very proud of her.
But uh, I love the feel of it. I had
a great You know, they all don't they all don't hit.
You can't hit them all out of the park. But
(30:03):
we had a great time doing it. I loved, loved
working in Memphis. We we didn't we did. It was
it was something about trying to find out the show
was trying to find its momentum. We did an episode
called Fire in a Crowded Theater, which is about the
(30:24):
First Amendment, and I thought, this is it. We're the
local locomotion is moving. And then you know, the numbers
weren't great. We're what they expected, so we didn't make it.
But I had a great time working on it. Let
me ask you one question that I think it is
related to this, because I want to end on stuff
(30:45):
that you do. You said that your mother inspired you
to do this work you do, including trying to get
young people into acting. But we we talked all the
time about the disparities and American life, and there are
the obvious ones in terms of UH income and wealth
(31:09):
formation and access to healthcare and how people are treated
in law enforcement and all of that, but you've really
focused on the fact that only about four and a
half or cent of the roles UH on television and
in the movies are filled by Latinos, even though of
(31:35):
the population is Latino in America and twenty three per
cent of the movie going public is within which I
think is greatly over index in terms of going in
the movies, especially that first weekend that that that those
important couple of first weekends. Yeah, so just before we go,
tell people what you're trying to do to close that
(31:56):
gap and what else you think should be done. Well,
it's it's all representation. And again I'll go back to
if you see it, you can believe, you can aspire
to to you know, to to do it yourself. And
as I said, Mr President, that the education process for
me has been everything in terms of allowing me to continue.
(32:18):
And I just wanted to pass that on in in
the small niche of the arts UM because confirmation from
the outside sometimes when you walk into a room and
if you have a degree from ny U or Yale
or University of Texas, the drama school earth it. It helps,
(32:42):
It talks, it bespeaks to the fact that you you
can show versatility and and uh and you have tools
in the in the toolbox there. So what do you
want to do with the ust of your wife? Oh?
I love doing what I do, UM, but there is
a need to continue to tell our stories. And so
(33:06):
it's it's about finding ways in terms of pro produce
oial thing um to finding those seeds to let the
those trees grow. Yeah, I think that's an important thing
to say. You have to learn both how to accept
(33:26):
with grace what you're not doing anymore and how to
accept with vigor what you can still do. And one
of the great things about being in in your line
of work is that you may age out of certain roles,
but you don't have to age out of the work.
(33:47):
And I think that's really important. I certainly hope so. Yeah,
me too, But I think I really believe that you can.
You should be so proud of this amazing career you've
had and all the roles you've played. And I'm only
(34:09):
sorry I didn't get to see you in one of
the Shakespeare place but I have. I'm thrilled about in
the Heights, and I do want the American people to
know the people are listening to this, that you have
done your best to pass along your gifts through the
Hispanic Federation of trying to educate more young people and
(34:34):
and to teach them and everybody else that if you
want to be really good at something, you got to
put in the time and not look for the shortcuts. Absolutely.
You got to put the work in and you have
done it to great effect and we're very grateful to you.
(34:55):
Thank you, and I thank you. Thank you for your
time today and good luck with Premier. It's going to
be a great I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Thank
you for the allowing us to have a real conversation. God,
bless you. I love it. Thank you, bless you. On
(35:16):
our season finale, I wanted to take a moment to
thank you for joining me on Why Am I telling
you this? For conversations with some of the most fascinating
people I know, sharing stories about experiences and events that
connect us and shape our world. This podcast benefits the
work of the Clinton Foundation. I started the Foundation with
(35:37):
the belief that everyone deserves a chance to succeed. Everyone
has a responsibility to act, and we all do better
and when we work together. In the twenty years since
the Foundation first opened its doors in Harlem, we brought
together people from across traditional divides to address some of
the most complex and pressing challenges of our time. Our
(35:58):
goal is to create a culture of stability, always putting
people first. You can learn more at Clinton Foundation dot org.
I'm looking forward to joining you soon on our next
season of Why Am I Telling You This? Why Am
I Telling You This? Is a presentation of My Heart Radio,
(36:18):
the Clinton Foundation and at Will Media. Our executive producers
are Craig Manassian from the Clinton Foundation and Will Manati
from at Will Media. Our production team for the Clinton
Foundation includes Tom Galton, Sarah Harrowitz, and aunt Hele Arena,
with support from Corey Gantley, Omarfa Rule, Francesca Ernest Cohn,
Liz Raftree, and Tyler Scott. Our production team for at
(36:40):
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mixing by Jake Young, production coordination by LaTavia Young, and
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(37:02):
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(37:25):
By listening to this podcast, you're helping support the work
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It's been more than twenty years now since I left
the White House, but one question I still got to
ask all the time is what was the best part
of living in the White House. Well, most importantly, living
in the White House means the American people have given
you the honor of serving our country and the best
self in the world. But there are also a lot
of other great parts about it. You walk around through history,
(00:32):
which you see in paintings and sculpture, in the old
clocks everywhere. You get the chance to work in the
Oval office, which even on the cloudy iss Ranius days,
is full of light. There's a good bowling alley in
the basement, a nice swimming pool outside, and maybe above
all else, there's a wonderful movie theater. Our family really
(00:53):
loved watching movies in the White House Theater, whether alone
or with guests at special occasions. With the course of
my presidency, we screened dozens and dozens of movies, both
keeping up with new releases and rewatching old favorites. Since
we could watch any movie from the comfort of our home,
you may wonder why in May Hillary and I chose
(01:16):
instead to go out to the theater to see one
the premiere of Me Familiar, the story of a Mexican
American family in East Los Angeles. The answer is simple,
that had a great cast and a great story, and
we wanted to give our support publicly to a movie
that was helping to show what our American family really
(01:39):
looks like. So why am I telling you this? Because
representation in film and television, on stage, and in other
media really matters. People deserve to feel that their lives
and stories are important and worthy of being told, and
it's equally crucial that we tear down stereotypes so that
(02:00):
people have all about grounds believe they can achieve whatever
role they want to play, whether on screen or in
real life. There's no one who has worked harder to
make that a reality than my guest today, Jimmy Smith's Jimmy,
who also happens to be one of the stars of
Me Familia, has spent more than thirty years creating some
(02:22):
of the most memorable characters we've seen, from lawyers to
police officers, from taxi dispatchers to the President of the
United States. He's not only entertained us, but he's helped
to change the face of movies, television, and the stage
and As a co founder of the National Hispanic Foundation
(02:42):
for the Arts, he's worked heartlessly to improve representation and
given hundreds of promising young Latino students the opportunity to
pursue their dreams in the arts through scholarships. You know
him from L. A. Law, N Y P. D, Blue, Dexter,
The West Wing, Sons of Anarchy, Star Wars, and much more.
(03:05):
And next month you will know him as Kevin and
the film adaptation of Lin Manuel Miranda's Wonderful in the Heights. Jimmy,
thanks so much for being here. Indeed, my honor, Mr President,
thank you, thanks for the appreciate it. Most of us
got to know you when you broke through is Victor C.
(03:25):
Fluentez on L. A. Law. And since then we watch
you bring an incredible range of characters to life, tell
us about life and influences. Before most of us got
to know you on screen, at what point did you
decide you wanted to pursue acting? Not an easy path regardless,
(03:45):
and especially because, as you said, you didn't see many
examples of letting know actors to follow. I think the
fact that we moved around a lot of the family
in New York mostly but for a time. We lived
in Puerto Rico as well, and I think having to
adapt to new environments because it's I come from a
(04:12):
working class family, uh, and sometimes things times were good
and sometimes times were not great. So we lived in
all types of neighborhoods, sometimes with other extended family members. Um.
And because of that, I think as a as a
young person, I was always trying to fit into a
new environment or having to speak another language that I
(04:36):
wasn't as familiar with, and and I think that was
where the seeds were planted. Uh. I love doing impersonations
when I was young for my dad's poker buddies, Nikita
Khrushchev banging banging his his shoe at a table, or
(05:01):
Ed Sullivan introducing uh the Beatles and then putting on
Mom's wagon. So that it was those little things that
is that trying to fit in. That's that's what I
keep seeing when I look back. And then in terms
of the education process, you know, every and every immigrant
(05:23):
family wants their their child, their children to do better.
And education was a big thing for my family, and
it started in junior high school. With regards to theater.
I went to junior high school in Brooklyn called George
Gershwin Junior High School, So you know from the name
that there was a musical theater bent and there was
(05:46):
a couple of music teachers there that did school plays
and we went through the cannon of Rogerson Hammerstein over
and over again. And uh so that's where it started.
In high school, there was another it was al is A.
There was always an educational person along the way that
gave me a little pushed to the next level. There
(06:08):
was a high school teacher that was taught drama in
English literature and he took us to go see Broadway plays.
So it was in the seventies. It was an exposure
to to seeing Shakespeare and Shaw and and there was
always times where there were people that I could see
(06:34):
seeing it is permission to aspire in a way, you know,
in terms of representation. So to see somebody like James
Earl Jones and Raoul Julia in the theater really impressed me.
And because I saw the commonalities and uh and I
(06:57):
wasn't a great student Mr President in school, but uh
I found that when I could put my energies towards
researching a role that I was doing, I would I
could spend hours in the library trying to find out
why eighteenth century cups were made the way they were.
You know, I could. So it was my handle that
(07:19):
I found that I found something that I h I
thought that I was good at that that I loved,
that there was a love there and so I was
able to apply those things that I got from those
teachers and and feel good. So that's where that's where
(07:40):
the bug the bug was hit. And then in school,
in high school, it was about going to you know,
being going to going to college. And then a professor
there who was was a professional actor, and one of
our professors said, you know, you probably could go to
l a and be the crook of the week on
some TV show, but you've shown interest in the classics,
(08:03):
and I think you should think about graduate school and
trying to amass more tools in your toolbox because what
we do as a craft. So that's applied to a
number of graduate schools and got accepted Cornell University, who
had at that time had a very small, almost monastic
(08:27):
type of program. The education process has been the key
for me, Mr President, and it's one of the reasons,
you know, you mentioned the Hispanic Foundation for the arts
that tried to kind of pass that along my my
my mother, with her religious background, always said, you know,
(08:50):
look look over your shoulder at for the person who's
right behind you and try to give a helping hand.
So every he chooses their path in our business, there's
no right way of the different paths that you wind
up wind up choosing. And for me, the educational process
has been, uh the key in a lot of respects
(09:13):
to uh to literature too, doing what I love and
and to having that you know, that toolbox. And then
there's there's preparation and then there's you know, opportunity and
a little bit of luck. And uh so coming coming
back to New York, there was it just started in
(09:37):
terms of what working off Broadway and and doing doing
stuff here and there, and then you know, working on
working on television. How many years were you in Puerto
Rico too, Well, we uh, you know, there was always
the the Christmas, the summers. But when I had to
(09:58):
go to school, when I was scared, that was two.
It was like during the wonder years that you know,
nine to eleven. And did you did you have to
improve your Spanish when you went down there to communicate? Oh? Oh,
it's it was like, uh, into the frying pan. And
and culture for me, like really American culture, just the
immigration process was reversed, so culture just ceased in a way.
(10:22):
There was no more Ed Sullivan and the Beatles. And
it wasn't as uh, it wasn't the primary focus I was.
I was immersed in, you know, different types of music
and things that I knew, but on a daily basis,
the politics of the island, all of the all of
(10:43):
those things, um and and now you know, looking back,
it was a very traumatic time for me because again
trying to fit in and being called a Yankee as
a kid in during those years when I was going
to school, You're Yankee? What do you mean? I mean cheap?
But but it is the it's the formation of everything
(11:06):
that I am as an adult to night. My feelings
about culture and music and all and what I do
in terms of my roles are influenced by by that time.
And do you still go back every now and then? Absolutely? Absolutely,
And and I just want to thank you for what
you know. September September twenty two, thousand seventeen was the
(11:33):
day that we all remember on the island in terms
of Hurricane Carocine Maria and what happened, and in terms
of like what my mother said looking over his shoulder
and trying to give a helping hand, thank you very
much with the with c g I and what your
initiative has done to help. Well, that was interesting. I've
(11:55):
always loved going down there. I love the feeling of it.
I like the culture, and we were trying to help
and still are trying to help working down there in
the aftermath of all these storms, which are have become
more numerous and more intense. No one in Puerto Rico
doubts that the climate is changing. But I remember walking
down the streets of after I had done my day's work.
(12:17):
But we just took a walk down through the old
part of San Juan, and I looked up and there
was a group of electrical workers, not just from New York,
but people who had worked in my little town, Chaffaqua,
and they were saying, you know, we we have trees
(12:38):
knocked down in winter storms and all that, and wires
getting messed up. So I'd actually run into these guys
as a citizen, not because I was president, just walking
the streets after a winter storm, and there they were
trying to help Puerto Rico, and I think that we
forget that there. Puerto Rico has a lot of it's
citizens in American now doing well and making a difference
(13:01):
end and it'll be interesting to see what happens in
the years ahead. Economically, it's because it's always been a
kind of bell Weather, I think for financial status with
regards to the country. And we talked about infrastructure, that
the infrastructure there really needs a lot of help. There's
still you know, two thousand seventeen, there's still thousand blue
(13:25):
tarps still from Maria. And so thank you for doing
your part. Well, we have the aft, keep it going.
We'll be right back. Let's talk a little about In
the Heights. Why do you want to be a part
(13:45):
of this and how much the growing up in New
York City give you a feel for in the Heights?
And hen did you see it when it was on Broadway?
I saw it before I was on Broadway. I saw
it off Broadway. I was. I have a friend of
a friend who worked at a place called the that's
no longer there. It's called the Drama Bookstore. I remember.
(14:08):
If you go, you can go get any play and
it's a place that that a young Lynn Manuel Miranda
used to go and and replays, and they did a
reading him and his Wellesley and crew did a reading
(14:29):
of that played down in the basement. They have a
little time theater there, and my friend who I went
to college with had emailed me and said, you know,
there's some kids down there that are really They were
really they really got it there the next wave and
I got to see that that particular production in the
(14:50):
off Broadway iteration, and I was just amazed that there
was such positivity there about that story and and so
current but at the same time giving kind of like
a history of a neighborhood through a very specific lens,
but following the tropes of a Broadway musical, giving joy
(15:12):
at the same time, you know, and very impressed with Lynn.
The themes in the story are just something that speaks
to me. And although through a very specific lens there
they speak of the because of specific lends with regards
to the community that you're seeing, but it speaks of
(15:37):
what America is about, family, community, where is home, all
those things that we just talked about before. And the
director of the piece, John Chow, who directed Crazy Rich Asians,
I think it's the perfect director for this because he
(15:57):
you know, he embodies the same types of sentiment from
another perspective maybe, but the same senses of community and
all of those things. And and I'm just I'm I'm
proud of what what Lynn did with the play, how
he was able to open it up with Chiara who
(16:19):
this who's the screenwriter? And then and then what John
has done with these in terms of the cinematic contribution,
all of these flourishes that are in the film towards
old Hollywood that audiences I think we'll connect with in
the In the movie, you play the father of one
of those young people that you've tried to help along.
(16:42):
Leslie Gryce is a very gifted young Dominican. Was that
fun for you? Super talented? Leslie is musically and just
gave herself, opened herself in terms of um being on
a big movie set, being one of the leads in
in this film, And it was fun for me because
(17:07):
we were able to in terms of our scenes, we
were able to connect on that father and daughter level.
And uh and and just watch her work was incredible,
as is all of the principles in in the film.
I guess I should say I don't want to give
any of the movie away, but I guess, you know,
I should say that In the Heights is somewhat different
(17:33):
from the Broadway version because it was updated to take
into account, you know, development since the play was first performed.
And in this movie, your daughter, uh has gone to
Stanford a long way away, and then it is having
(17:55):
reservations about it. I won't say any more about that,
but since my daughter to Stanford and I think to
get as far away from Washing do see as she could,
much to her mother's this naight, uh, but it was
a great move for it, and it was uh uh.
(18:17):
We're all doing that all the time. We're all simultaneously
trying to come home and go away, you know, keep going.
But she that that particular character, she she she finds
her way, she finds a purpose. And one of the
things you're you're alluding to is this this brushstroke in
terms of opening the film up dealing with the Dreamers situation,
(18:40):
and she, uh, she finds new purpose in in that. Yeah.
I think the Dreamers clearly have a lot of support
in America, and I keep hoping that that can be
the beginning of a sensible emmigrant ration reform. Having these
(19:02):
wars over immigration is a big mistake. This country needs
it's immigrants, and uh, I notice the other day the
great economist Paul Krugman, who writes in The New York Times,
says that he believes that and I agree with him
(19:26):
on this, that we were right to be spending a
lot of money now from the government coffers to try
to get the economy going again and get back to
the jobs we lost at least, you know, in the
in the COVID recession, which was steep and deep and quick.
But he said, the truth is that we could be
(19:46):
into a long, long period of economic slow down just
because the populations aren't growing. Every country in the world,
without regard to their religion, or their culture or their politics,
every country, once they start to grow and they put
(20:08):
girls in school and give women access to the workplace
in the education, the birth rate inevitably drops, and a
couple of years ago America's birth rate dropped below replacement
level for the native born. Our only way to continue
to grow is to have a responsible immigration policy and
(20:33):
say America is an idea, not an ethnic group, and
you can come here if you believe in the rule
of law and the freedom of all people to live
and work together and grow together and learn from each other.
And it is maybe the single biggest thing we face.
(20:54):
Our ability to continue to bill shared prosperity, our ability
to get together and handle climate change, our ability to,
you know, once again, find a way to counter rising
violence in our cities without having police practices that wind
up with unarmed people wanted for minor offenses being shot.
(21:17):
You don't. That's all these things that we're dealing with
at root work better if you have a democracy based
on certain behavioral instincts. I might learn suffering from this person.
We'll be right back. Let me ask you something about
(21:41):
this we were talking about a little before we started
the program. But you have played this incredible range of characters,
including I noted when I was doing some research for
this that you actually were in at least two productions
of Shakespeare in the Park, something we do in the summertime,
and in Central Park showing Shakespeare's place. You did l
(22:05):
A Law, then you did in Y p D. Blue,
and you got nominated I think totally eleven times for
Emmys and both of them. How hard did you have
to work as an actor and how conscious were you
that I need to present this person whole, warts and all,
but still whole, basically good or strong or struggling. But
(22:31):
if it's a dark character, they're not all dark. If
it's a light character, it's not all light. It's how
how much were you aware of that and all of
your roles that you had to present not a cartoon
but a person. I've been very lucky, Mr President, in
terms of the people that I've worked with that it
(22:52):
was on the page, so that helps. Sometimes it's not
there on the page, but it's your responsibility as an
actor to flesh out a backstory for a particular character.
I was talking about the tools in the toolbox because
it's a it's a craft. So as part of the job,
(23:14):
you try to do as much research as you can,
time permitting, and keep that ongoing, talking to people who
are in the profession, different perspectives, um and and then
trying to flush out with the writers. Hopefully in television
it's a it's a more fluid process because it can change.
(23:35):
You have much more time, so the canvas can open
up a bit more. But certainly in the work gun
NYPD Blue, the writer had a kind of schematic that
all of these characters had a something dark and somber
about them, as positive as they could be, but there
(23:57):
was something also that informed them character wise that the
audience could engage with. So they would want to see
how because they knew they understood what the character schematic
was of sip Witz, the sipo Wits character, the Simone character,
(24:18):
the somberness that he might have exhibited that they knew.
They you would have the framework of an ongoing series
proceed in terms of procedural, but you had character points
that the audience could kind of grasp onto. So what
(24:41):
you're talking about in terms of flushing out of particular character,
that's part of what the process is to try to
make him, him or her three dimensional. Well, let's talk
about one character that I'm curious about. I was a
big fan of the West Wing and uh do like
actually came and spend some time at the White House,
(25:02):
and several the others folks did too, And I thought
it had a better chance to succeed because it was
an ensemble story. That is, you can make something interesting
happens every week in the White House to somebody who
works there, who has an important job so it was real.
The West Wing was this flowing, amazing group of characters,
(25:28):
and in the fullness of time you emerge as Matt
Santos and you become president. So there you are our
first Latino president. What kind of reaction did you get?
How how did you feel about playing the character? He's
a politician, he's not a you know, an angel, but
(25:49):
a compelling person. And the fact that this person from
a different type of heritage that you might expect what
would be some of the dynamics that would be involved
in that campaign process. He happened to be from from Texas,
that that character, and so that came into play. And
(26:15):
the whole dynamic of how you feel like do you
feel like you're being handled as a candidate with the
people that surround you. Um, that was a that was
a dynamic that we explored and the campaign process it was.
It was fascinating for me to be able to deal with.
(26:39):
There were times when I thought about you, sir, from
the time that we spent in terms of how someone
in the in this particular process communicates directly with people.
You talk about this in your podcast. Everybody has a story,
but when you have the ability to kind of make
(27:03):
the person that you're talking to engage with them in
the sense that tell me your story because it helps.
That's something that's a quality in terms of a successful
candidate that I that I absorbed just from watching you, sir,
uh and then talking to all the politicians also as well.
(27:26):
I guess I should tell our listeners that Jimmy was
good enough to campaign with me in Texas. Uh. And
and I had a different reaction. I was watching you
and I thought, God, I'm glad I'm not running against
that guy. Yeah, you were good. You had a unnatural
(27:49):
feel and it was obvious to me you cared about
the people we were down there talking to. So but
I think that that was an important stay up in television.
We did a debate episode that remains to me one
of the highlights of you know, I can kind of
in my hand, but we had we had a live
(28:10):
debate that we did. It was like doing a play
that Lawrence O'Donnell was the right around that particular episode
and Allen and all Allda and I it was you
still had the machinations of what was going on behind
the scenes with all of the you know, the handlers
(28:32):
and the staff, but it was basically what the candidates
perspectives were. You know, I think those I think those
debates are important, and interestingly enough, they still make a difference.
And uh, at least through there was so much polarization
(28:56):
in twenty there was more. But still the debates matter
because it's one of the few times you get to
actually see this person instead of see what their enemies,
that their promoters are saying about them. And so the
people who can still be reached by argument and feel
(29:19):
I think are affected by them. And anyway, you did
a great job. You were You were good in the movie,
and you were better on the ground in Texas. It
may not movie in the TV show. Um tell me
what happened with a Blessed City law? I liked it, Hillary,
and I liked it, Thank you. I always dreamed of
(29:41):
being in law practice with her, and my daughter never
wanted to be a lawyer. She got into public health
and loved it and stayed and I'm very proud of her.
But uh, I love the feel of it. I had
a great You know, they all don't they all don't hit.
You can't hit them all out of the park. But
(30:03):
we had a great time doing it. I loved, loved
working in Memphis. We we didn't we did. It was
it was something about trying to find out the show
was trying to find its momentum. We did an episode
called Fire in a Crowded Theater, which is about the
(30:24):
First Amendment, and I thought, this is it. We're the
local locomotion is moving. And then you know, the numbers
weren't great. We're what they expected, so we didn't make it.
But I had a great time working on it. Let
me ask you one question that I think it is
related to this, because I want to end on stuff
(30:45):
that you do. You said that your mother inspired you
to do this work you do, including trying to get
young people into acting. But we we talked all the
time about the disparities and American life, and there are
the obvious ones in terms of UH income and wealth
(31:09):
formation and access to healthcare and how people are treated
in law enforcement and all of that, but you've really
focused on the fact that only about four and a
half or cent of the roles UH on television and
in the movies are filled by Latinos, even though of
(31:35):
the population is Latino in America and twenty three per
cent of the movie going public is within which I
think is greatly over index in terms of going in
the movies, especially that first weekend that that that those
important couple of first weekends. Yeah, so just before we go,
tell people what you're trying to do to close that
(31:56):
gap and what else you think should be done. Well,
it's it's all representation. And again I'll go back to
if you see it, you can believe, you can aspire
to to you know, to to do it yourself. And
as I said, Mr President, that the education process for
me has been everything in terms of allowing me to continue.
(32:18):
And I just wanted to pass that on in in
the small niche of the arts UM because confirmation from
the outside sometimes when you walk into a room and
if you have a degree from ny U or Yale
or University of Texas, the drama school earth it. It helps,
(32:42):
It talks, it bespeaks to the fact that you you
can show versatility and and uh and you have tools
in the in the toolbox there. So what do you
want to do with the ust of your wife? Oh?
I love doing what I do, UM, but there is
a need to continue to tell our stories. And so
(33:06):
it's it's about finding ways in terms of pro produce
oial thing um to finding those seeds to let the
those trees grow. Yeah, I think that's an important thing
to say. You have to learn both how to accept
(33:26):
with grace what you're not doing anymore and how to
accept with vigor what you can still do. And one
of the great things about being in in your line
of work is that you may age out of certain roles,
but you don't have to age out of the work.
(33:47):
And I think that's really important. I certainly hope so. Yeah,
me too, But I think I really believe that you can.
You should be so proud of this amazing career you've
had and all the roles you've played. And I'm only
(34:09):
sorry I didn't get to see you in one of
the Shakespeare place but I have. I'm thrilled about in
the Heights, and I do want the American people to
know the people are listening to this, that you have
done your best to pass along your gifts through the
Hispanic Federation of trying to educate more young people and
(34:34):
and to teach them and everybody else that if you
want to be really good at something, you got to
put in the time and not look for the shortcuts. Absolutely.
You got to put the work in and you have
done it to great effect and we're very grateful to you.
(34:55):
Thank you, and I thank you. Thank you for your
time today and good luck with Premier. It's going to
be a great I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Thank
you for the allowing us to have a real conversation. God,
bless you. I love it. Thank you, bless you. On
(35:16):
our season finale, I wanted to take a moment to
thank you for joining me on Why Am I telling
you this? For conversations with some of the most fascinating
people I know, sharing stories about experiences and events that
connect us and shape our world. This podcast benefits the
work of the Clinton Foundation. I started the Foundation with
(35:37):
the belief that everyone deserves a chance to succeed. Everyone
has a responsibility to act, and we all do better
and when we work together. In the twenty years since
the Foundation first opened its doors in Harlem, we brought
together people from across traditional divides to address some of
the most complex and pressing challenges of our time. Our
(35:58):
goal is to create a culture of stability, always putting
people first. You can learn more at Clinton Foundation dot org.
I'm looking forward to joining you soon on our next
season of Why Am I Telling You This? Why Am
I Telling You This? Is a presentation of My Heart Radio,
(36:18):
the Clinton Foundation and at Will Media. Our executive producers
are Craig Manassian from the Clinton Foundation and Will Manati
from at Will Media. Our production team for the Clinton
Foundation includes Tom Galton, Sarah Harrowitz, and aunt Hele Arena,
with support from Corey Gantley, Omarfa Rule, Francesca Ernest Cohn,
Liz Raftree, and Tyler Scott. Our production team for at
(36:40):
Will Media includes Jamison, cat Sufis and Mitch Bluestein, with
mixing by Jake Young, production coordination by LaTavia Young, and
original music by Wat White. Special thanks to John Sykes,
Teine let Ilinois, John Davidson, Oscar flora Is, Bob Barnett,
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(37:02):
and partners at the Clinton Foundation. If you have an
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(37:25):
By listening to this podcast, you're helping support the work
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