A murder conspiracy in China is at the center of a fascinating true crime story involving politics, greed and deception. There are no heroes in this book, but boy, what a drama. Author Wenguang Huang tells me about his fantastic book, A Death in the Lucky Holiday Hotel: Murder, Money, and an Epic Power Struggle in China.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Every twelve years the Year of the Dragon. This year
is again the Year of the Dragon, is supposed to
be a year of political instability because Dragon symbolized China,
a symbolized prosperity, and also symbolized lot the turbulence.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor
in Austin, Texas.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I'm also the co host of the.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career,
research for my many audio and book projects has taken
me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down
with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers,
and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious crime cases.
(01:01):
This is about the choices writers make, both good and bad,
and it's a deep dive into the unpublished details behind
their stories. A murder conspiracy in China is at the
center of a fascinating true crime story involving politics, greed,
and deception. There are no heroes in this book, but boy,
(01:22):
what a drama. Author Win Wang Hong tells me about
his fantastic book A death in the Lucky Holiday Hotel, murder, money,
and an epic power struggle in China. Let's start first
with this is twenty eleven when this murder happens, right
and where in China? Will you tell me where we
(01:44):
are in China and kind of the brief overview of
what's happening with politics there, and maybe kind of where
we are just in general.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
This was happening in mid November two thousand and eleven,
and we are right now in the middle of China's
One of China's mega city is called chung Qing in
southwestern part of China. It has thirty two million people,
so it's a huge city. Is sitting near the Yans River.
If people who are listeners will know about the three
(02:14):
gorgeous that one of the biggest rivers in China.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
This city is right there.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
And then in chung Qing city and the head of
the city in the US called the mayor. In China
we call the party secretary of chu Qing, which is
the number one thick of the city. And then he
himself is a princely, which means he was the son
of a senior commons party leader. So he had taken
(02:41):
over about five years ago. And then the wife also
came from a very prominent family.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
She was a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So this is the background, and the city was going
through a very dramatic change, as you know that China
after nineteen seventy six, after mild died, it went through
a very big market reform and then was tilted more
toward the west. And then as the market reform was
going on, and then there were also the problems started occur.
(03:12):
For example, the rich get richer and the poor get poor,
the gap between the reach and the poor. Prime rates
have gone up. And then so this mayor came in,
or the party secretary called war. He came in and
he implemented a series of programs against organized crimes and
that he wanted to return China to the old Commings
(03:35):
era and a lot of people, common people, they love it.
So this is against this background this murder happened. So
on November sixteenth or seventeenth of twenty eleven, and then
there was a hotel right outside the downtown of chung Qing.
We heard about chun Qing Express that's the same city,
(03:56):
the mega city in southwest China. In this hotel, I
actually visited the hotel in twenty twelve. On the surface
is a regular like a two or three star hotel
with a very goudy like a motel type of things.
You imagine walking there, the big Chinese fish tank, and
then some people lying around. But outside in the periphery
(04:21):
of the hotel, in the vicinity of the hotel, there
were twelve European style little townhouses, the villas. There's a
lot of privacy and then businesses. If you want to
have a we can get away, you can stay there,
or sometimes you have business meetings. It's a very secluded
area right on top of the mountain, so it's a
very secluded area. And then on that day and then
(04:44):
the people who were working at the hotel, they noticed
that in room sixteen oh five there was a sign
do not disturb sign on but the cleaning staff reported
that nobody has gone into the hotel room for about
two or three day. They didn't see anybody coming out,
and the only thing they saw that was three nights ago.
(05:06):
And then they were the man, a foreign man and
also a Chinese woman. They walked into the hotel into
that room, and then the woman left, but the man
never left.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
See what was happening. So they knocked on the door.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
There was nobody in the door, said finally, they called
the security.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
They opened the door.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
They found the body of a foreigner, a westerner, and
then after they checked the registration, they found out he
was a busishman with the Beijing residential card. He looked
in the capital city of China, Beijing. So the immediate
called the police, and police came and then they notified
the police chief of the city, called one the police chief.
(05:46):
He came over and he looked around and he assigned
the case to four of his trusted police officers, and
then they did a round of the investigations and then
they realized. They said he died of excessive drinking, and
that he was a British businessman called Neil Haywood. He
had a consulting business and then obviously he drank too
(06:08):
much and then he might have died of a heart attack.
So they noticed his wife. He married the Chinese national.
They have two children, so the wife was very sad.
But then they also notified his family in the UK
and his mother heard about that. She was really shocked
because Neil Heywood's father had just died of a heart
(06:28):
attack not long ago, so they normally think that when
he drank, excess drinking led to a heart attack. So
they have the family signed the death papers everything, and
then they had the body permitted right away.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
The conclusion was that he just simply died of excess drinking,
and then nobody talked about it, and then they sent
the ashses back to Beijing to his wife, and then
for a while it sounds like the case was settled.
But there was a Chinese phrase you probably heard in China.
There is if you see the movie Goes in the US, right.
(07:04):
Chinese have similar sayings saying that if somebody was wrongfully
killed or murdered, and then their ghosts wouldn't dissipate, They
would rack public in this world until they would avenge
their own death, until all people know about it. There
was a lot of the Asian Chinese stories talk about
the ghosts that on death stuff.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
So people would say.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Neil, he would died a wrongful death or something, and
then his goals never dissipated, and then several months later
this whole case started unravel.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Well. I have several questions.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Did the media think that this was a big story
in any way that this business is Western businessman. This
British businessman has died in a hotel. This was a
non story I guess for them.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yes, because first thing is media in China was very
tightly controlled by the government. They all stayed round media
right and also the Chunching police department. They never notified
the media, so there wasn't much report about it. The
second part is there were so many foreigners living in
China at that time, so if it's the excessive drinking
(08:16):
and then never caused a major headline, it just a
foreigner died, and normally China try lay down the death
because they didn't want to cause any international incident. It's
just a normal death. So there wasn't much reporting at all.
Other people they never heard about the case, and I
never heard about it until after later on when this
(08:37):
whole case exploded for some other reasons. But nobody knew
anything about it. It just went away.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
What did you know about Neil Haywood? Can you give
me an idea of who he was as a person.
You said he was married, he was in Beijing, he
had two children. Was there any reason to believe that
this was an important man or this was consequential in
any way.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
At that time, all we knew that he was born
in the UK and attended one of the prestigious they
called public schools in the UK, Herald School there. And
then he graduated from University Warwick with a degree on
internatural relations.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
And then he claimed.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
That his grandparents of great grandparents serving the House of
Lord and then used in the nineteen thirties his great
grandfather served as a council General of the British Mission
in China. So because of this connection he came to
China in the nineteen nineties. You know, a lot of
(09:38):
foreigners students after graduated, they traveled to Japan China to
teach English as a second foreign language. So he didn't
come to major city like Beijing, Shanghai or the cities
that people normally know.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
He ended up in the city called Dhalian.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
In northeastern part of China, in the man Turian part
of China. The dani And city is a it's a
seaport city, so he went over there and started to
teach English. In those days, it was very popular a
lot of the Chinese, especially the fund families, They wanted
to send their children abroad to study because getting a
degree in the US in Britain is.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Called gold plated, is much more marketable.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
So they want their especially some of the upper class Chinese,
they want their kids to be sent to a British
boarding school. And then they want their kids to grow
up with standard speak English, with better than I deal,
with a no accent, and with the Queen's English. You
know that stuff. So he had attracted a lot of
the students there. And we also learned later on when
(10:44):
one of the senior leader's kids they went to send
to London, he offered to help.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
And if he know a lot of the upper class people.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Once he knew more and more of the senior leaders
and got into their circle, and if he studied his
own consultant business helping people. For example, he was saying,
if a British businessman or a company in the US,
you want to do a set up business in China,
he was supposed to be very well versed in Chinese cultures.
(11:14):
He could offer consulting business. So that was his background
at that time. And then you know, there was a
lot of people like him, a lot of people who
came to China to teach English. And if somebody died
of accidentals like excessive drinking. That was no non news,
and then the state controlled media never reported.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
So this happens in mid November of twenty eleven. What
is the next thing that happens when we realized that
this was not somebody who drank himself to death.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
In February right after Chinese New Year? You know Chinese
New Year happened that year two thousand, Well happened in
late January. So right after Chinese New Year, the very
powerful police chief who was in charge of investigation, suddenly
he lost his job and then he was removed from
his place. They said he would become the deputy mayor.
(12:07):
And later on they said he suffered a lot of
stress because he was receiving a kind of vacational style treatment.
So become a joke, said, what happened to the police
chief who was so powerful? He was a police He
established himself as one of the crime fighters. He came
from a different city in two thousand and seven to
(12:28):
assist the party secretary or the mayor of chung Kin,
and then he within a few years he estabbed himself
up the true crime fighter. He arrested more than five
thousand people prosecuted them for being involved in an organized crime,
and he was very, very famous. And suddenly in February
two thousand and twelve he lost his job. People couldn't
(12:51):
figure out what was the reason. And then they said
he was and a lot of stress because it's so
much of an anti crime work.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
His mental health was affected, so it.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Costs a little bit of distir That's how my co
author of the book found out. We found out. We
realized it was a little pretty intriguing what happened. And
then a few days later and then some day on
social media started to say who lived near the American
embassy in Sutram Province. It's about twenty kilometers away in
(13:24):
another city where the American constule was based. People suddenly
realized there was a lot of cars surrounding an American embassy.
Was there, VIP coming, they're welcoming. And also this was
a week before the Chinese Vice president was supposed to
go to visit the US, so the US China relationship
was at the focal point. Everybody was very sised about
(13:45):
the issue. This what's happened to the American constule?
Speaker 4 (13:48):
They there?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And then that night somebody said, the police chief has
defected and escaped to the American embassy to seek for
political asylum. Oh that's exactly the reaction a lot of people,
they said, what this guy who is famous for being
his anti western, anti American rhetoric, and he's very on
(14:12):
the leftist side, and you know, how could this anti
American police chief in China ended up in the American embassy.
So that caused a huge skir and after he got
in and then the party chief or the mayor of
tun King got so panicky, so he sent troops over
(14:34):
and tried to kidnap him and try to bring him
out of the American embassy. And then the news reached Beijing,
the capital city, and the central government they heard about this.
They were so embarrassed because if a local government sent
troops to kidnap somebody from the American embassy, that's a
violation of international law. So they end up sending troops
(14:55):
over to the American embassy. So that night, so the
American embassy, the marine troops were ready to fight, and
then the Chinese provincial troops surrounding the American embassy, and
then the government central governments and the troops start worrying
that the provincial government was going to take over the
American counsulate.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
So because this tension going on, they said what is happening?
That caused the whole chaos there.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And then the next day you start to leak out
saying that this police chief had information about the death
of the British businessman Neil Haywood. And then gradually you
sleaked out as this police chief suspected or accused the
wife of the party chief, Chang Ching or the mayor
(15:41):
of chang Jing, of murdering this British businessman. And then
he was seeking political asylum because he was worried that
he had the information and the party chief was going
to send people to assassinate him, to kill him. That's
why he ran to the American embassy. And then the
American officials there they were put in the dilemma because
(16:04):
on the one hand, they really want to maintain good
relations with China, because that was a week before the
Chinese vice president, who was supposed to be the Crown
Prince who was going to take over China seven months later,
he was visiting the US. So by the those days
he was the vice president, he is supposed to knew
China very well. So they briefed the Chinese US ambassador
(16:26):
to China. They briefed Hillary Clinton for the suburb of States.
So they had an emergency meeting, and they decided that
this police chief was probably didn't have too much valuable information,
who was probably not of no value. So they decided
to pander to the Chinese request.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
So they gave him up.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
So he was released from the American American compassion turned
him down. They gave him to the Chinese government.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
I need a very small asylum seekers one oh one.
He can show up to the American consulate in China,
in a Chinese city and say I need asylum.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
And what does he do?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
He pleads his case and if they say yes, what
happens they escort him to the United States or what
ends up happening with that case if they say yes.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
So let me walk back a little bit. The police chief.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Later it turned out that he was removed from his position.
He realized that his life was going to be in
danger by the police chief was gone to kill him.
So because when each time they claimed somebody may have
mental health issues, that's a sign that you couldn't die.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Wait, what so you're saying when they say the person
of some importance or controversy has mental health issues, the
next step is like they disappear or they go into
an asylum or something.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
The thing is, if you reports lately about Russia and China,
you see a lot of people they say so and
so suicide jumped from his building because for years he
had mental health issues, were struggling.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
With the depression. So a lot of the mysterious deeff.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So the police ship was worried that he could be
pushed down the building or could be murdered. They would
say he had mental health issues. He committed suicide, so
that was he's worried that his life was in danger.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
So he evaded.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
He was put under house arrest in a way, and
then the police, they actually planted a lot of policemen
year his residents. Somehow he evaded the police. Some people
say that he dressed up by like an old woman
and then gradually left his compound and then he called
another of his uhs previous bornis and somebody had the
(18:45):
suv there waited for him, and they drove him to
another city to the American consulate, and then he called
the American consulate or he has his friend called the
American consulate saying that he had something important. He wanted
to see the consul general of the consulate, saying that
there was some anti terrorist information he wanted to share
(19:08):
with Americans. Since he was the police chief of the
city and the American consulate, I'm sure they must have
opened the door to him.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
They let him in.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
There's information, saying they carried a suitcase of some of
the documents relating to the murder of Neil Haywood.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Some of that evidence he carried. He told the American.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Officials there, said, I have information relating to the murder
of a British prisons man.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
And also I have also.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Information relating to the party chief of our city. And
I'm si complete asylum. And then they since he was
such a heightened tension, they said he was incoherent, he
was agitated.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
But then they sent him the room. They immediately send the.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Cable to Gary Locke, who was the US and bestor
of China. They said, please come back, and then they
interviewed him and then the report or the State Department,
and they realized that he probably wasn't valuable enough. And
then he wasn't qualified to be a political refugee. And ironically,
in the old days, it's American Chinese dissidents who would
(20:14):
go to run to the American embassy or the consulate
to see political asylum. And this guy is the police chief.
People like the reaction you had. He said, what he's
running for a lot of times people said, this is
a rumor. He could have gone to the asylum. He
must have gone to the American consulate to discuss some
important matters with the American officials.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
But later on and it was true. And then when the.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Party chief heard about it, he was desperate. He knew
that he was going to be in trouble, so he
sent the troops to the American embassy. They had the
different negotiations, and then after thirty six hours of the
standoffs and the Americans let him go, and then he
was handed over not to the provincial government but to
the central government. The troops spent outer layer yeah to
(21:02):
the representative there, and then they flew him to Beijing
for interrogation. So that's the big instant milestone. And then
people start to understand that the reason he escaped to
the American embassy is because Neil Heywood the death, so
people start to check look up and then I think
the British government also was alerted of this and they
(21:24):
also requested investigation.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
I love the way that people are thinking, like they're
putting together the pieces. This must be the police chief
who is far left and is anti American, anti Western,
and he says, save me. And you said, you know
that people were connecting it to Neil Heywood in his death,
which was questionable this businessman. But who are the people.
(21:48):
It's not the media, right because the media is controlled
by the Chinese government.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
That's a great question.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Before he left for the American Embassy, the Peace Chief Wan,
he prepared four cell phones with a different phone card,
the same card.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
He prepared four cell phones.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
He typed the different messages in case, he said, in
case I'm killed or if I something happened. He gave
the cell phones to his friends and he said, will
you hear that either something I'm caught or news of
my death or something. Please send the message over to
(22:26):
the different chat groups. And then so the fourth phones,
the first message was like please chief one escape to
the American embassy.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
Because he knew so much about the murder of the British.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Businessman, and then another message saying that the party chief
of chung Jin the city, he's very corrupt, he invents
a lot of funds. And then the police knew about it.
And the third some messages saying that the wife of
the police chief murdered Neil Heywood. You know this stuff
they set out and when the government because by the
time you sent out to the chat group and by
(22:59):
the time censors they found it, there was a period
of time during this time already spread very widely. But
this was all planned by the police before he entered
the American and consumate there.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
But isn't all of that still like I know, there's
the Chinese version of Twitter, right, isn't that all still
very tightly controlled chat rooms too? Are they not all
still tightly controlled by the Chinese government? Or is there
some underground thing that I don't know about?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
In those days, micro crops is similar to our Twitter,
it would call micro blogs plot It was controlled by
the government, but sometimes they cannot control it all beca
it's such a big country. It was so in those
at the early age that the two thousand was not
as advanced as here like right now, China has the AI,
all the different control mechanisms, and there was certain kind
(23:49):
of freedom. People use firewalls, they can use the access,
they could ease the access Twitter, and also we were
sometimes they send out messages and then the government the
censors found out going to delete it right away. But
between the time the government census found out there was
like a couple of hours. It is already there. People
already spread very very The new spread very fast. And
(24:11):
that was the first time. Previously I would say that
we hear or staying in the West right if something
happened in China, even some of the senior officials died,
we might probably hear about it a week later or
two weeks later. But this is the first time because
the interconnection world, we are and almost like simultaneous with
(24:32):
watching live like when the microblocks they sent out the
messages about Neil Heywood might have been killed by the
wife of the party chief, and immediately overseas we knew
it simultaneously too, So that's how we were able to
jump on the story right away. And then the overseas
media played a huge role in spreading the news to
(24:52):
when they deleted the block. But the overseas media picked
up right away, like some of the Chinese language media
out like that my co author he ran, and then
some of the English media, that Times, the Financial Times,
New York Times, War Street Journal, and they had a
lot of reporters who are very well.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
Trained in Chinese language.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
And then they were so fast too, so this whole thing,
it just played out simultaneously and were able to watch it.
So that's the second milestone event, the defection of the
police chief, and also triggered people's interests in the Nilhi death,
and so this case resurfaced again.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
So let's go back to February of twenty twelve. So
the police chief has asked for asylum. The US says no,
They've turned it over to the Chinese government, not the
political chiefs, the mayor's troops, but the Chinese government, and
the police chief is brought in where Beijing or someplace
for interrogation.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yes, the police chief was brought into Beijing for interrogation.
They wanted to protect him because he held very important
information about the party Chip toun Kin. So that's how
this all started. And then once this whole thing happened,
and even though China tried very much to control information,
(26:16):
control the flow of information, and then you spread very
very quickly. And then the Chinese media was forced to
publicize it. They just say the police chief has escaped
to the American counsulate. But then the Chinese government decided
now to do anything because it was right before a
very important conference in China in March, so they did
(26:39):
not want to disturb peace. And then they want this
conference to go on. And then party chief, they are
very they all delegates to the the legislative conference in March,
the Chinese legislature they meet once a year for a
couple of weeks in Beijing.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
So they decided now to do it.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
But then the media, especially the international media, who were
basing beating, They kept asking. They wanted to show what
the police chief allowed with true they kept asking, but
the Chinese media refused to our Chinese officials refused to
answer the question. And also because twenty twelve I told
you before, twenty twelve is a big year for China's
(27:18):
succession plan. Every four years, the Chinese president is like
they need to have a new croup. Leaders are taken
over and in China it's supposed to be a collective leadership.
So the top echelon of the organization is called the
Pola Buier Standing Committee.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
This is a group of seven senior leaders.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And then they formed the Standing Committee of the Communist Party,
and then the president is the top and then controls
this committee. So there was taught that the party chief
might be a candidate for the Poler Buller Standing Committee.
So people start to say, oh, is this police chief defection.
(28:00):
It's going to affect his ascension, It's going to affect
his political career. And then the Chinese government totally shout
off the rumor, saying it's a rumor. And then this
defection is a totally isolated incident and then nothing is
going to happen. And then suddenly back in March and
(28:20):
they made an announcement that they decide to remove the party
chief from his post. And then in April they officially
announced that he and his wife they were involved in
the murder. They starts in the murder of British businessman
Neil Heywood.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Well, now this is intriguing because now I want to
know what they say. The motive is, why would okay,
and let's talk about their names. So do I call
him Bow and how do I say her name?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Ball is the name of the former party chief Tun
King Bo. Yeah, and his wife's name is good g U.
You asked the right exactly the right question. After Ball
and they were under arrest and the party said they're
going to do a serious investigation. People start to ask
(29:07):
why do they want to kill Neil Heyward? Who is
Neil Hayward? And what is the connection? What prompts the
party chief's wife, this prominent family, she has everything she wanted.
Why did she want to kill a British businessman? So
this is the whole as the party. Even though the
party controls the flow of information, and then a lot
(29:31):
of people start to information start to leak out. The
leakers of the information they have different motives too, because first,
previously China is impossible because there's no transparison in the
Chinese government, impossible to know what is happening.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
But then a lot of.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
People within the party who feel threatened by the party
chiefs ascension.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
They were we call it their political opponents.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
They want to tarnish his reputation, they want to end
his chances for being promoted, so they start to leak
information about what was really happening. That's how my co
author was in New York. He ran the Chinese media
company and also publishing house. A lot of different sources
start to call him and start to explain the question
(30:20):
you just raised. Who was Neil Hayward and why did
grule the party? Chip's wife want to kill him. During
that the next six or seven month and we start
to get this NonStop, like the feeding with the information,
were able to sit together a picture of what happened.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
It turned out that Neil.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Hayward he himself when he came to China to teach English,
and when he was in Dallian. I told you that
he ended in the city in the coastal city in
northeastern part of China. At that time, Wall was the
mayor of Dahlian and his wife lived in that city
and they they were very prominent couples in the city
(31:02):
because they were the children of the senior commings leaders.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
So nil he Would was also in the city.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
He heard about them, and then eventually when he heard
that Ball and his wife, they send their son to
study in Herold in the UK. It was the same
school that Nil hey Would he attended his alma major.
So he wrote a letter to the couple saying that
I'm also a graduate from.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
There, I know UK very well.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
I'm willing to take care of your son if you
needed help. So that's how he got connected with the
Ball family. So when when their son went to study
in the UK, the wife who Kaili, went to accompany
her son.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
They stayed in London.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Nil he would met them a couple of times, and
then they became really good friends. So Nil he would
told the wife, you can go back to China. I'll
be here and be the guardian. And then so before
he left, she offered him an old car, an expensive car,
but they can drive a sound around during the weekend.
And also when her son needed money, and then Neil
(32:10):
Heywood was the middle person to wire money to the
UK because you know it could be more risky if
the official they wire money oversees it could be perceived
as scandalous.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
So I have two questions. So first will be what
was Neil Haywood's motivation to do any of this? Was
he being paid? Why would he befriend them? Certainly not
to just be helpful.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
In China, is they call connections once you have the
political connections into this powerful family and then you can
find more opportunities in the future. For example, he could
tell the other Western businessman who want to do business
in China and say, I have this powerful connection. I'm
Groad friends with the Bull family, and then you know
(32:55):
it's a political capital. He wanted to take vantage drops
it gradually start to who got his way into the
Boy family guard their trust.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
And then when he returned.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
To Dahlia, he started a business consulting firm and used
the connections to get projects from the politicians there, and
then he started to prosper and then their connection get
closer and closer, and then Ball and his wife started
to get Neil. He would involved in some of the
(33:27):
major contracts. For example, major wealthy businessmen wanted to build
a whole some luxury bush style town homes or resorts,
and then they want Neil to be involved in this.
Neil he would say, oh, I can bring some wealthy
bush people here they can buy the luxury homes, or
(33:47):
I can you know, make connections with Western investors they
can invest.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
So it was a big, huge.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Construction projects and then Neil was involved for several years,
but they after a couple of years he never brought
any wealthy British businessman who would want to go all
the way to tun Jing to Southwestern trying to invest there.
You know, I guess it was very tough tough sell.
And also the other thing is during that time, boy,
(34:15):
she like realized this construction project could be a liability
because if people find out, they'll know that the party
chief is giving up this lucrative contract to his friends
and to his family members. So the party chief canceled
the projects and Neil was initially promised twenty million dollars
if the projects work, if the construction projects went through,
(34:38):
but then it didn't go through. It fell through because
the government canceled the projects. He didn't get a single penny.
And then after he worked for these several years and
then he got nothing, he got desperate. He had money problems,
so he wanted to get money. He said, at least
you should compensate me for the time I put in there.
So he tried to pressure Gool but they didn't want
(34:59):
to give him money. They felt like he didn't contribute anything. Also,
this project was killed right there was the information saying
that he went to travel to London and then he
knew that he always wired money to the Sun. They
overseas assets was controlled by the Sun. He went there
to talk to the Sun, saying that you need to
pay me the money.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
The Sun rejected, Oh.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Wow, how much money were they sending this kid?
Speaker 2 (35:22):
We cannot verify the information. Some of they said twenty
million dollars, thirty million dollars, you know it's that. But yes,
you see a lot of the wealthy Chinese and the
senior governor officials during the past two decades, they siffned
a lot of money out to pick because for they
felt like it was not stable in China. A lot
of people they investled money and they want to transfer
(35:44):
overseas through different means. And there was a lot of
money flown to the West or to the neighboring countries.
So this was just an example, and he would supposed
to go out all the receipt he said.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
He started to threaten the kid, saying.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
If you don't pay the money out of all this
event to show about how you guys try to smuggle
money overseas. And then one day it was supposedly saying
that he held Both's son against his will in the
apartment for a couple of hours trying to get money
out of him. So he called his mother and then
(36:21):
told her about it.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
And that I'm sure did not she didn must not
have reacted well.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
To that exactly. So the mother got desperate. She's worried.
She said, oh my god, this Neil Heywood is going
to try to kill my son. So she became so desperate.
At that time, she became friends with the party chief
and she consulted with party ship, say what are we
going to do about this case? How do we do
the threat? So the party chief said, there's a couple
(36:47):
of ways we can do it. We can lure him
out of Beijing to come to Chunking, and we can
probably use a drug ring, saying that he's a drug
ring leader of foreign foreigners selling drugs in in China
were China had very tough drug laws. So we can
do We can kill him in a shootout and then
plan some drugs in there. But then they realized he
(37:10):
would still a British businessman if we do this drug operations,
if you cause an international incident, So they concouted the
plots and maybe that's a good idea to get him
into Chunking and then to poison him and they kill him.
And also they felt like it's less risky for a
couple of reasons. It's first except drinking, and then there
(37:33):
was no evidence he could have died of a heart attack.
The other thing is there was suspicion that Neil Haywood
might have been worked for six and then also he
sometimes played up the mystery and it was said that
his license plate with double seven or something. So he
was under the surveilance of the Chinese government as well.
(37:55):
So the police chiefs rush now is that since he
was a British spy, if we killed him quietly, right,
the British probably won't make a big issue out of
it because they didn't want they did not want to
reveal his true identity. And also the Chinese government, the
central government, they probably wanted there too because they suspect
it could be a British spy. So they concoted this plan.
(38:16):
But the wife or the police, sheef that she has
to do it herself. So the plan was on February thirteenth,
so Gool called Neil Heywood and invited him to toung
Qing and bought him first class airline tickets. Invite him
to tong Qin, saying I have some important business deal
to discuss with you. She also sent her driver was
(38:40):
a retired military man, sent her driver to pick up
Neil Heywood in Beijing. So they came together to toung
Qing and then they put him up in this hotel
called the English version of the hotel called Lucky Holiday Hotel.
This hotel is located on top of mountain, secluded area
(39:02):
and they have different individuals British style the two story villas,
and they put him up in a room called sixteen
oh five. So I actually visited the hotel while researching
for my book. It's very secluded and if something happened,
nobody will know. It's because of the tree tree lined streets,
and then each villa has some distance from it's kind
(39:26):
of far away from the others. It's the perfect crime scene.
So they they brought him over and they drove him
on their way to see Neil Haywood, who bought a
bottle of the expensive I think they call the Royal
Salute whiskey. And then they brought the whiskey, and then
they brought some of the muscle relaxant, and then some
(39:47):
rat poisoning which contains cyanide. And then they also brought
some herbal ecstasy, some of the crystal map. They brought
this one they want to spread near the crime scene
to show that as if he had the rock overdose
or drink over drinking, according to the core papers. They
got to the hotel, they started drinking, and then in
(40:08):
China there is a very common practice and to force
your guests to drink. Oh, drink this bottom up, that's common. Yeah,
bottom up. It's supposed to be a good get of
good will. It bottom up, and sometimes it's hard to
turn it. Always tell people when you go there, they
ask if you can't drink too much? Just said I
don't drink. But they normally it's a friendly gesture. Oh
(40:29):
come out, drink white, you'l drink whine. So soon, very quickly.
Neil Hay would obviously had a low alcohol tolerance, so
very quickly. He almost passed out once he went to
the bathroom to vomit, and they immediately they put the
mess in a Soi shale pad and then they fed
him the medicine. Also because they mixed the muscle relaxing
(40:52):
in the alcohol, he's probably by that time. It was
pretty helpless at the time, they fed the red poison
into a mouth, and then when he started to have
different reactions, and then they tried to control him. And
then once they thought he was he died or something,
so they left and then pulled the Donati sturb side
(41:14):
on and then they left the villa.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
So after she left.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
The villa, and then she called the police chief right away,
she said, I just did it. And then the police
chief said, don't worry about it, I'll take care of it.
They waited till the hotel staff member found the bodies,
so the police chief said, took police officers there. They
took some blood samples quietly but without telling the family everything,
(41:40):
and then they took two blood samples and then they
had his body cruminated, so they made it as if
he died of excessive drinking.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
So I know you can't get into the mind of
Neil Heywood, but I don't understand why he would after
threatening this couple's son, you know, trying to exhort my
out of them or whatever, why would he think it
was a good idea to accept an invitation from Goo.
And I assume Bo signed off on all of this Also,
(42:11):
I mean, he knew that they were very upset with him.
Why did he think that this was going to be okay?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
I think that at first he knew Gool for a
long time, the kind of friends. Also, if the wife
of a party chief costs you to discuss a business meeting,
you cannot decline. If this, you know, he knew that
there was the only chance. He was probably still holding
to the hope that if he couldn't get money from
the other sources, right, maybe Goo was creating a new
(42:36):
projects so to pay him back in a different way.
I just think that he was desperate for money, even
though his friends later said he was seemed to be okay.
But I think in China, under those circumstances, the wife
of very powerful men they called you to say, could
you fly oward to Tung King too, we can discuss
some business deals.
Speaker 4 (42:57):
There's no way he could turn it down.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
But he was suspicious because he would would have thought
that the wife of this prominent politician in China would
have wanted to kill him. So that's the rational, That's
what we can only speculate on that. But regardless, he came,
and he even drank with the woman, and also with the.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
Driver and then he was killed there.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
And then a few days later the police chief took
care for it. Everything seemed to be okay, but Ghoul
became a little paranoid.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Well no kidding, I'm sure she was.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
Yeah, he got the paranoid.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
So he was worried that the police chief might have
some other evidence, so he wanted the police chief to
destroy the evidence. And then the police chief they brought
some of the police officers and brought some of the documents,
say we don't have copies here, I will destroy them
in front of you. But he actually made copies, but
(43:55):
he had them destroyed. At the same time, the police
chip had his own mode hips. Two of the things
that happened during that time. First, the police chief have
been transferred to chan Ching from a different city. Some
of his friends in that different city was under investigation.
And because he when he was in chan Ching, he
(44:16):
arrested a lot of people and put them in jail,
he made a lot of political enemies, so they wanted
to arrest his friends in another city. And then in retaliation,
so the police chief was asking the party chief, his
friend or Good's husband, Ball said, would you like to
help me resolve it to intervene and then so to
(44:38):
have my friends released. And Ball refused to do that
because he's not going to stick his head out for
some kind of his subordinates, right, and it was also
his political risk. He was his year to be elevated
to the highest governing body of China. Another thing is
he also wanted the party chief of changing to give
(44:59):
him a promote. He was loving for promotion, so he
thought now that he did a favor to the wife
of the party ship, he wanted payback, so he wanted
Good to lobby her husband to give him a promotional
to help him out, and then Goul did, but what
she turned her down, So the tensions started to build
(45:20):
right and also so the wife felt like he was
not able to help.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
The police sheep.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
He knew the police chip would try to retaliate, so
she became so paranoid she decided one day when the
police chief was in Beaging attending a conference, so she
went to his house, raiding his house trying to look
for evidence see if the police cheop was holding any
evidence against her, and then she intergated a lot of
(45:45):
people around him. So the police sheep felt like this
was getting out of control. So he decided to have
a conversation with.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
Ball with the party chief.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
He arranged the meeting with the party chief and then
first he asked the party chief to offer him a
promotion to help him, and the party ship turned it down.
And then he started to say, I just want you
to know that your wife is involved in a very
serious murder case of British business, Neil Haywood. And then
the party chief was very shocked, right he said come
(46:19):
back to me. I'll talk to you later, and then
he started doing a lot of investigations. He rounded up
the people who work for the plice chief try to
find out what was happening. And then we learned that
the police chief was secretly collecting a lot of negative
information about him, and he felt betrayed.
Speaker 4 (46:38):
So the next.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Day when he came over, when the police chief came
over for a second meeting to discuss the murder of
good Kaili, and then the police chief brought this up
again and Ball became so angry that the police chip
hid this whole information from him.
Speaker 4 (46:56):
He slapped the police chief across the face.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Was such a severe slap that only during setting court
that he had a lot on the corner of his mouth,
his ears have some food in the ears.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
Was very severe.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
And also in China, slapping somebody across his face is
considered a huge humilating blow.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
This is to him.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
He felt like he was so loyal to the party
chief for the past six seven years. He helped him
get rid of a lot of the political opponents. He
made so many enemies. You know, he felt wrong. He
was so mad. He just left. He decided to retaliate.
And also after the slap, the police chief announced the
(47:41):
resignation of him, just forced him out.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
This is how the police chief eventually ends up at
the American consulate exactly.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
And then the police chief realized that if he didn't
do anything, he could be killed and then could be murdered.
They could push him off from the high rise saying that.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
He had mental illness.
Speaker 4 (48:03):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
And then he reached out to people in Beijing two
before he went to the American embassy. So he reached
out to his friends in Beijing. But everybody said that
Bull is such a powerful political figure and he was
ready to be elevated. They didn't show much sympathy. But
the only thing they were kind of helpless in a while,
so he felt the only way to save his life
(48:27):
is to run to the American embassy to make the
international scandal and in this way a lot of publicity
might help and then he might have saved his life,
which in the end he did save his life.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Well, what ultimately happened, So he is shipped over to
Beijing and interrogated. What happens to convince the authorities to
then turn on one of their own, this person, you
know Bo, who's supposed to send to you know, this
seven member council right under the president. Do you then
(49:00):
say we're going to put his wife on trial for murder?
What changes just based on what this police chief has
to say.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
So the police chief is very smart. He knew that
the murder case alone wouldn't be able to bring down Ball,
the person that he felt like he was threatening to
kill him, because there was just his evidence saying Nku
Kaila murdered somebody. So during the interrogation, now only he
(49:28):
told authorities about how Neil he would was murdered, he
also provided a lot of evidence to show that Ball
was planning to stay your coup with the top leaders.
Some of the leaders in Beijing trying to jeopardize undermine
the succession process.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
And he had evidence, well that was real evidence that
he had.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
He said he collected evidence. And also Ball happened to
fall into the trap. Is Bough personally since he was
the son of this prominent Commings leader. Right his personality,
he's very even when he was the mayor of a
small city, became the Commerce Minister of China, and when
(50:12):
the party ship chu Qing, he is the person who
is very high profile figure.
Speaker 4 (50:17):
He's very loud and flamboyant in a way.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Will say each time he went somewhere, he had made
a lot of noises, he made a lot of enemies.
Speaker 4 (50:25):
Like when he was in chu Qing.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
The first thing he did he got rid of the
police chief and have him executed. And he launched this
program completely reminiscent of China in the nineteen sixties and
the cultural revolution. Like everybody started seeing the old revolutionary sounds,
like when we were growing up in China in the
nineteen sixties, it's like the Christian sounds. It's like the
(50:50):
every day we have seen the sounds to praise Chama Maud,
praise communists and that whole thing has long been repudiated.
We found was you know, And he started the whole thing.
He said, China after thirty years of capitalist reforms which
haven't gone anywhere, and the gap the rich and poor
is such it could jeopardize the rule of the Commist party.
Speaker 4 (51:14):
We need to go back to the rule. So he
called him campaign and singing.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
Red sounds and strike against organized crimes.
Speaker 4 (51:23):
So he did a lot of this, and then he.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Persecuted a lot of his political opponents, who made a
lot of enemies. And then a lot of the people
in Beijing they felt threatened by him. So when one
started to say that he not only he did not
want to be the party chief, he did not want
to be elevated to the pol bearer member.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
He wanted to be the number one in China.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
And then he wanted to be He and some other
senior members of the Polybuer member the governing body's member.
They want to build their lines overthrow the rule of
the conference that covered the presidence. So he used cakes
and said sometimes she would made disparent and remarks about
the senior leaders.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
But was this true? Was any is this true that
he was saying.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Dumba is a true but I think the more they exaggerated,
and a lot of his political components, they couldn't wait
to use these two, whether it's you undermine him and
get rid of him.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
So I feel all different kinds of things about Boa
and Goole. So I felt badly for them because it
sounded like Heywood was really intimidating their son and trying
to extort money, and then didn't feel badly for them
because they're sending money overseas when they shouldn't be. And
then you're saying that he's executed a former police chief
and this current police chief is scared for his life,
(52:44):
but it also sounds like he's being that Boa is
being persecuted for something he didn't really do, even though
it does sound like he probably would like to do it.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
So I just I don't know where all this is going.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
This is a political game that you're succession, right, Everyone
want to get ahead. But the party, the Central Party
Committee has also had already had a plan the Chijing
Ping as the successor to the present position. And now
you have somebody here who comes try to disrupt the
(53:18):
status ball and they're not going to let it happen.
And then they want to get rid of him. And
then also some of his policies during that time, people
felt threatened because they felt like he was reversing China's
policy thirty years of trying to finally get into the
close to the west and get opened up, and you
go into the mild era, you start to do this.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
So a multiple factors and.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Then really his political opponents said, now we finally got evidence.
They use this murder case and successfully they got rid
of him. So after Wali Jin had this his own reportings,
and then the funny thing is when right after committed murder,
he called the police chief to told him about it.
(54:01):
The police chief knew that he could use this later,
so he taped the whole conversation wow of a Goo
Kaila admitting that she killed Neil Haywood to protect her
soon and so he tape everything. He also had the
blood samples to show that Neil Haywood died of sini
(54:21):
not rather than except drinking. So he had all this
thing preserved and he turned it over to the Central
Party Committee and then they used this and the final
they decided to hold a public trial.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
At first I thought the police chief is paranoid, but
I guess now that I know that his predecessor had
been executed by Bella, then I understand why he had
collected all of this stuff. What ultimately happens. So Google's
on trial for murdering Haywood, right.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
Yes, and then and the public pressure, international pressure, they
decided to put him on the show trial Like the
whole trial happened much anticipated, I think in August twenty thirteen,
a year after. And then the whole trial lasted seven hours.
They claimed that they have interviewed more than three hundred
(55:09):
witnesses and then the officers stuff like that, but they
never did any cross examination. And then they just presented
some of the evidence. A lot of the evidence. They
mentioned that the police she provided and something they never like.
They never played the tape and they just had goog KaiA.
She went out there. You could tell that we were watched.
(55:30):
It was little all because she used to be this
stunning woman. She used to be called the kinda on
aessense of China.
Speaker 4 (55:37):
But she was there.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
But she said very contraved in a very contrived tale,
saying that sounded very repentant, saying that I killed Niol
hay Would because he threatened my son and that I
did something terribly wrong. And you know, she confessed the murder.
After the trial a few days later, she was sentenced
to death penalty, but waiting more two year years and
(56:00):
they try they extend that to life imprisonments.
Speaker 4 (56:04):
So that's okay.
Speaker 2 (56:05):
So I think the trial is so come down in
such a hasty manner, so so many unsolved questions, And
then after she died, people still didn't believe that she
really killed Neil Hayward. First she was supposed to be
They said that she was diagnosed with the severe mental
health issues. She had schizophrenia, and she had severe bipolar symptoms. Right,
(56:28):
and then if she and she was heavy medicated, and said,
how would you how could you trust her own words
without letting other witnesses interview other witnesses or you know
that they didn't even play the tape. And then there
was also the thing is that she consulted with the
police chief before Nil Haywood was invited to chun Ching
(56:49):
after he arrived in toun Jing. And then the police
she was supposed to monitor everything because he helped her obstrate.
Speaker 4 (56:57):
Their home murder kids.
Speaker 2 (56:58):
Right, she was a lawyer, and then all the police
chief was helping her, right, why didn't she take some
basic precaution. For example, when she was trying to administer
the rad poison, she didn't even wear gloves, and then
she had her fingerprints all over the stuff. And also
some people say that there were some other people's footprints
(57:21):
in the room they found out, but they never explored
this evidence. And also more importantly, they did not believe
that she was capable of murdering Neil Haywood. And because
the rat poisoning itself in China, red Points considered a
very tiny amount of sinid, not enough to kill the person.
(57:42):
The police chief said that he took two blood samples
before he was cremated. One blood sample had no trace
of sinid in it at all, but the second blood
sample that while was worried that could be teraminated. He
gave the blood sample to a friend and then the
friend transported to another city to captain refrigerator. And then
(58:05):
when this whole case came out, one you said, I
was so worried that Ball and the GUKAILI they would
find out, they would damage the evidence.
Speaker 4 (58:13):
So I transferred the aviding to another city.
Speaker 2 (58:16):
But then the second evidence of the blood voles whatever
they took and then contain sinide just the right amount
to kill somebody that said, how could you be so
accurate to put the right amount there? So there's all
these different un answered the questions. So in my book
that we argue that Gu Kaili herself was not capable enough.
Speaker 4 (58:38):
To commit the murder alone.
Speaker 2 (58:40):
We strongly believe that the police chief has a strong
motive to help perpetrate the murder because once he had
enough evidence against Gu Caili, he could use as a
leverage to lobby for promotion with Ball because he felt
he was he had a trump card, is your wife
killed a British businessman and then you'd better give me
(59:03):
a promotion otherwise have to publicize.
Speaker 1 (59:05):
That everybody is horrible in this story.
Speaker 2 (59:08):
Nobody's innocent, So everybody has their own different motives. It's
just a corruption within China, is you know, the money
and power, and then this whole thing so entwined in
the story, and then you know, the police chief ended
up because he himself tried so hard to use different
ways to bring down the Chunjian party chief to save
(59:29):
his own life. And then the party chiefs political opponents
in Beijing they've used the perfect excus to bring him down.
And then Onely Jean, through his collaboration with Boss political opponents,
he was able to save his life. And then he
was put on trial as well. Due to his collaboration.
(59:49):
He was only sentenced to fifteen years in prison.
Speaker 3 (59:53):
This is the police chief, right, the police chief, Okay,
so tell me what happens with everybody. So the police
chief gets fifteen years in prison as like an accessory
or whatever.
Speaker 4 (01:00:01):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
And then Ball was locked behind bars right before the succession.
The succession normally happened in October, and then they extended
for one month in November. And then at the party
in congress when the new leadership was going to take over,
everything went according to plan because Ball was safely locked
behind bars. And then after the succession was done, and
(01:00:26):
then they start the purchase.
Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
So Ball was the first one to go.
Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
He was sentenced to lifeline imprisonment for embezzlement public fund investment.
And then the second part is all the people who
were in Beijing, there were some seiate leaders. They were
all gradually they were purged and they were sentenced to
lifelong imprisonment or different kind of punishment in the name
of corruption in this way to guarantee that the coup
(01:00:54):
did not happen. And then they also call it a
political cup because you bore was trying to his biggest
crime is to try to stay a coup against the
current leadership. That was the main reason. And then highlight
one of the reasons we felt like she was so
willingly a magical crime. We felt like she must have
(01:01:17):
struck a deal with the Chinese government.
Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
Two things.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
First they let go of her son, who studied in
New York and then later moved to Canada. Bo Blah
blah was the name of the sun. And then right
now they said, if you plead guilty, we will spur
her sign of because if in a strict legal sense,
her son was also involved in the corruption scandal, right
(01:01:41):
you transfer the money out and he was the receiving end.
And then they never pursue an hrgist against her son.
And then said down one thing.
Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
I think.
Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
The other thing is she porportrayed the murder alone. She
thought she could could have saved her husband, but that
was not the case. But then she's still languishing in jail.
And then during the trial of her husband, he added
a New Triss. He kept saying that the police sheep
and his wife had an affair and they were supporting
(01:02:14):
each other. That's why she conducted the murder. And then
everything was done without his knowledge and all that, but
you know, it didn't help. And then the main reason
his biggest crime was the political as the political call,
rather than the murder.
Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
So he was jailed.
Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
And then recently there was a rumor saying that he
was diagnosed with liver cancer. He was a medical parole.
Somebody said he died, but nobody can verify the information,
just pure rumor right now. But one thing is for sure,
he's still locked behind bars. And when we were doing
the story, we interviewed that China insider before his verdict
(01:02:54):
was announced. We were asking said, how many years do
you think he will get? The guy said, I don't
know how many years would get, but one thing for sure,
they would never let him get out alive and become
a threat to the current leadership. So they achieved their goal.
Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
What about gool you said she died, Did she die
in prison?
Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
No, that there was the boar is nobody knows. She's
still in jail as far as we know. And also
receiving psychiatric help. I know that her son right now is.
Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
Practicing law somewhere in Canada.
Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
My coaptor met with him before he left for Canada
in New York City, and I think that in our
book we mentioned that he's probably the last hope, is
the descending this Bole family, this political dynasty, and this
soll ended with the murder of Neil Haywood.
Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
If you love historical true crime stories, check out the
audio versions of my books The Ghost Club, All That
Is Wicked, and American Sherlock and Don't Forget. There are
twelve seasons of my historical true crime podcast, Tenfold More
Wicked right here in this podcast feed, scroll back and
give them a listen if you haven't already. This has
been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Alexis
(01:04:21):
a Morosi. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. This episode
was mixed by John Bradley. Curtis Heath is our composer,
artwork by Nick Toga. Executive produced by Georgia Hardstark, Karen
Kilgarriff and Danielle Kramer. Follow Wicked Words on Instagram at
tenfold More Wicked and on Facebook at Wicked Words Pod
This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Every twelve years the Year of the Dragon. This year
is again the Year of the Dragon, is supposed to
be a year of political instability because Dragon symbolized China,
a symbolized prosperity, and also symbolized lot the turbulence.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor
in Austin, Texas.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I'm also the co host of the.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career,
research for my many audio and book projects has taken
me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down
with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers,
and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious crime cases.
(01:01):
This is about the choices writers make, both good and bad,
and it's a deep dive into the unpublished details behind
their stories. A murder conspiracy in China is at the
center of a fascinating true crime story involving politics, greed,
and deception. There are no heroes in this book, but boy,
(01:22):
what a drama. Author Win Wang Hong tells me about
his fantastic book A death in the Lucky Holiday Hotel, murder, money,
and an epic power struggle in China. Let's start first
with this is twenty eleven when this murder happens, right
and where in China? Will you tell me where we
(01:44):
are in China and kind of the brief overview of
what's happening with politics there, and maybe kind of where
we are just in general.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
This was happening in mid November two thousand and eleven,
and we are right now in the middle of China's
One of China's mega city is called chung Qing in
southwestern part of China. It has thirty two million people,
so it's a huge city. Is sitting near the Yans River.
If people who are listeners will know about the three
(02:14):
gorgeous that one of the biggest rivers in China.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
This city is right there.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
And then in chung Qing city and the head of
the city in the US called the mayor. In China
we call the party secretary of chu Qing, which is
the number one thick of the city. And then he
himself is a princely, which means he was the son
of a senior commons party leader. So he had taken
(02:41):
over about five years ago. And then the wife also
came from a very prominent family.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
She was a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So this is the background, and the city was going
through a very dramatic change, as you know that China
after nineteen seventy six, after mild died, it went through
a very big market reform and then was tilted more
toward the west. And then as the market reform was
going on, and then there were also the problems started occur.
(03:12):
For example, the rich get richer and the poor get poor,
the gap between the reach and the poor. Prime rates
have gone up. And then so this mayor came in,
or the party secretary called war. He came in and
he implemented a series of programs against organized crimes and
that he wanted to return China to the old Commings
(03:35):
era and a lot of people, common people, they love it.
So this is against this background this murder happened. So
on November sixteenth or seventeenth of twenty eleven, and then
there was a hotel right outside the downtown of chung Qing.
We heard about chun Qing Express that's the same city,
(03:56):
the mega city in southwest China. In this hotel, I
actually visited the hotel in twenty twelve. On the surface
is a regular like a two or three star hotel
with a very goudy like a motel type of things.
You imagine walking there, the big Chinese fish tank, and
then some people lying around. But outside in the periphery
(04:21):
of the hotel, in the vicinity of the hotel, there
were twelve European style little townhouses, the villas. There's a
lot of privacy and then businesses. If you want to
have a we can get away, you can stay there,
or sometimes you have business meetings. It's a very secluded
area right on top of the mountain, so it's a
very secluded area. And then on that day and then
(04:44):
the people who were working at the hotel, they noticed
that in room sixteen oh five there was a sign
do not disturb sign on but the cleaning staff reported
that nobody has gone into the hotel room for about
two or three day. They didn't see anybody coming out,
and the only thing they saw that was three nights ago.
(05:06):
And then they were the man, a foreign man and
also a Chinese woman. They walked into the hotel into
that room, and then the woman left, but the man
never left.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
See what was happening. So they knocked on the door.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
There was nobody in the door, said finally, they called
the security.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
They opened the door.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
They found the body of a foreigner, a westerner, and
then after they checked the registration, they found out he
was a busishman with the Beijing residential card. He looked
in the capital city of China, Beijing. So the immediate
called the police, and police came and then they notified
the police chief of the city, called one the police chief.
(05:46):
He came over and he looked around and he assigned
the case to four of his trusted police officers, and
then they did a round of the investigations and then
they realized. They said he died of excessive drinking, and
that he was a British businessman called Neil Haywood. He
had a consulting business and then obviously he drank too
(06:08):
much and then he might have died of a heart attack.
So they noticed his wife. He married the Chinese national.
They have two children, so the wife was very sad.
But then they also notified his family in the UK
and his mother heard about that. She was really shocked
because Neil Heywood's father had just died of a heart
(06:28):
attack not long ago, so they normally think that when
he drank, excess drinking led to a heart attack. So
they have the family signed the death papers everything, and
then they had the body permitted right away.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
The conclusion was that he just simply died of excess drinking,
and then nobody talked about it, and then they sent
the ashses back to Beijing to his wife, and then
for a while it sounds like the case was settled.
But there was a Chinese phrase you probably heard in China.
There is if you see the movie Goes in the US, right.
(07:04):
Chinese have similar sayings saying that if somebody was wrongfully
killed or murdered, and then their ghosts wouldn't dissipate, They
would rack public in this world until they would avenge
their own death, until all people know about it. There
was a lot of the Asian Chinese stories talk about
the ghosts that on death stuff.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
So people would say.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Neil, he would died a wrongful death or something, and
then his goals never dissipated, and then several months later
this whole case started unravel.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Well. I have several questions.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Did the media think that this was a big story
in any way that this business is Western businessman. This
British businessman has died in a hotel. This was a
non story I guess for them.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yes, because first thing is media in China was very
tightly controlled by the government. They all stayed round media
right and also the Chunching police department. They never notified
the media, so there wasn't much report about it. The
second part is there were so many foreigners living in
China at that time, so if it's the excessive drinking
(08:16):
and then never caused a major headline, it just a
foreigner died, and normally China try lay down the death
because they didn't want to cause any international incident. It's
just a normal death. So there wasn't much reporting at all.
Other people they never heard about the case, and I
never heard about it until after later on when this
(08:37):
whole case exploded for some other reasons. But nobody knew
anything about it. It just went away.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
What did you know about Neil Haywood? Can you give
me an idea of who he was as a person.
You said he was married, he was in Beijing, he
had two children. Was there any reason to believe that
this was an important man or this was consequential in
any way.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
At that time, all we knew that he was born
in the UK and attended one of the prestigious they
called public schools in the UK, Herald School there. And
then he graduated from University Warwick with a degree on
internatural relations.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
And then he claimed.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
That his grandparents of great grandparents serving the House of
Lord and then used in the nineteen thirties his great
grandfather served as a council General of the British Mission
in China. So because of this connection he came to
China in the nineteen nineties. You know, a lot of
(09:38):
foreigners students after graduated, they traveled to Japan China to
teach English as a second foreign language. So he didn't
come to major city like Beijing, Shanghai or the cities
that people normally know.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
He ended up in the city called Dhalian.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
In northeastern part of China, in the man Turian part
of China. The dani And city is a it's a
seaport city, so he went over there and started to
teach English. In those days, it was very popular a
lot of the Chinese, especially the fund families, They wanted
to send their children abroad to study because getting a
degree in the US in Britain is.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Called gold plated, is much more marketable.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
So they want their especially some of the upper class Chinese,
they want their kids to be sent to a British
boarding school. And then they want their kids to grow
up with standard speak English, with better than I deal,
with a no accent, and with the Queen's English. You
know that stuff. So he had attracted a lot of
the students there. And we also learned later on when
(10:44):
one of the senior leader's kids they went to send
to London, he offered to help.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
And if he know a lot of the upper class people.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Once he knew more and more of the senior leaders
and got into their circle, and if he studied his
own consultant business helping people. For example, he was saying,
if a British businessman or a company in the US,
you want to do a set up business in China,
he was supposed to be very well versed in Chinese cultures.
(11:14):
He could offer consulting business. So that was his background
at that time. And then you know, there was a
lot of people like him, a lot of people who
came to China to teach English. And if somebody died
of accidentals like excessive drinking. That was no non news,
and then the state controlled media never reported.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
So this happens in mid November of twenty eleven. What
is the next thing that happens when we realized that
this was not somebody who drank himself to death.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
In February right after Chinese New Year? You know Chinese
New Year happened that year two thousand, Well happened in
late January. So right after Chinese New Year, the very
powerful police chief who was in charge of investigation, suddenly
he lost his job and then he was removed from
his place. They said he would become the deputy mayor.
(12:07):
And later on they said he suffered a lot of
stress because he was receiving a kind of vacational style treatment.
So become a joke, said, what happened to the police
chief who was so powerful? He was a police He
established himself as one of the crime fighters. He came
from a different city in two thousand and seven to
(12:28):
assist the party secretary or the mayor of chung Kin,
and then he within a few years he estabbed himself
up the true crime fighter. He arrested more than five
thousand people prosecuted them for being involved in an organized crime,
and he was very, very famous. And suddenly in February
two thousand and twelve he lost his job. People couldn't
(12:51):
figure out what was the reason. And then they said
he was and a lot of stress because it's so
much of an anti crime work.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
His mental health was affected, so it.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Costs a little bit of distir That's how my co
author of the book found out. We found out. We
realized it was a little pretty intriguing what happened. And
then a few days later and then some day on
social media started to say who lived near the American
embassy in Sutram Province. It's about twenty kilometers away in
(13:24):
another city where the American constule was based. People suddenly
realized there was a lot of cars surrounding an American embassy.
Was there, VIP coming, they're welcoming. And also this was
a week before the Chinese Vice president was supposed to
go to visit the US, so the US China relationship
was at the focal point. Everybody was very sised about
(13:45):
the issue. This what's happened to the American constule?
Speaker 4 (13:48):
They there?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And then that night somebody said, the police chief has
defected and escaped to the American embassy to seek for
political asylum. Oh that's exactly the reaction a lot of people,
they said, what this guy who is famous for being
his anti western, anti American rhetoric, and he's very on
(14:12):
the leftist side, and you know, how could this anti
American police chief in China ended up in the American embassy.
So that caused a huge skir and after he got
in and then the party chief or the mayor of
tun King got so panicky, so he sent troops over
(14:34):
and tried to kidnap him and try to bring him
out of the American embassy. And then the news reached Beijing,
the capital city, and the central government they heard about this.
They were so embarrassed because if a local government sent
troops to kidnap somebody from the American embassy, that's a
violation of international law. So they end up sending troops
(14:55):
over to the American embassy. So that night, so the
American embassy, the marine troops were ready to fight, and
then the Chinese provincial troops surrounding the American embassy, and
then the government central governments and the troops start worrying
that the provincial government was going to take over the
American counsulate.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
So because this tension going on, they said what is happening?
That caused the whole chaos there.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And then the next day you start to leak out
saying that this police chief had information about the death
of the British businessman Neil Haywood. And then gradually you
sleaked out as this police chief suspected or accused the
wife of the party chief, Chang Ching or the mayor
(15:41):
of chang Jing, of murdering this British businessman. And then
he was seeking political asylum because he was worried that
he had the information and the party chief was going
to send people to assassinate him, to kill him. That's
why he ran to the American embassy. And then the
American officials there they were put in the dilemma because
(16:04):
on the one hand, they really want to maintain good
relations with China, because that was a week before the
Chinese vice president, who was supposed to be the Crown
Prince who was going to take over China seven months later,
he was visiting the US. So by the those days
he was the vice president, he is supposed to knew
China very well. So they briefed the Chinese US ambassador
(16:26):
to China. They briefed Hillary Clinton for the suburb of States.
So they had an emergency meeting, and they decided that
this police chief was probably didn't have too much valuable information,
who was probably not of no value. So they decided
to pander to the Chinese request.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
So they gave him up.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
So he was released from the American American compassion turned
him down. They gave him to the Chinese government.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
I need a very small asylum seekers one oh one.
He can show up to the American consulate in China,
in a Chinese city and say I need asylum.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
And what does he do?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
He pleads his case and if they say yes, what
happens they escort him to the United States or what
ends up happening with that case if they say yes.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
So let me walk back a little bit. The police chief.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Later it turned out that he was removed from his position.
He realized that his life was going to be in
danger by the police chief was gone to kill him.
So because when each time they claimed somebody may have
mental health issues, that's a sign that you couldn't die.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Wait, what so you're saying when they say the person
of some importance or controversy has mental health issues, the
next step is like they disappear or they go into
an asylum or something.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
The thing is, if you reports lately about Russia and China,
you see a lot of people they say so and
so suicide jumped from his building because for years he
had mental health issues, were struggling.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
With the depression. So a lot of the mysterious deeff.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So the police ship was worried that he could be
pushed down the building or could be murdered. They would
say he had mental health issues. He committed suicide, so
that was he's worried that his life was in danger.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
So he evaded.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
He was put under house arrest in a way, and
then the police, they actually planted a lot of policemen
year his residents. Somehow he evaded the police. Some people
say that he dressed up by like an old woman
and then gradually left his compound and then he called
another of his uhs previous bornis and somebody had the
(18:45):
suv there waited for him, and they drove him to
another city to the American consulate, and then he called
the American consulate or he has his friend called the
American consulate saying that he had something important. He wanted
to see the consul general of the consulate, saying that
there was some anti terrorist information he wanted to share
(19:08):
with Americans. Since he was the police chief of the
city and the American consulate, I'm sure they must have
opened the door to him.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
They let him in.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
There's information, saying they carried a suitcase of some of
the documents relating to the murder of Neil Haywood.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Some of that evidence he carried. He told the American.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Officials there, said, I have information relating to the murder
of a British prisons man.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
And also I have also.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Information relating to the party chief of our city. And
I'm si complete asylum. And then they since he was
such a heightened tension, they said he was incoherent, he
was agitated.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
But then they sent him the room. They immediately send the.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Cable to Gary Locke, who was the US and bestor
of China. They said, please come back, and then they
interviewed him and then the report or the State Department,
and they realized that he probably wasn't valuable enough. And
then he wasn't qualified to be a political refugee. And ironically,
in the old days, it's American Chinese dissidents who would
(20:14):
go to run to the American embassy or the consulate
to see political asylum. And this guy is the police chief.
People like the reaction you had. He said, what he's
running for a lot of times people said, this is
a rumor. He could have gone to the asylum. He
must have gone to the American consulate to discuss some
important matters with the American officials.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
But later on and it was true. And then when the.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Party chief heard about it, he was desperate. He knew
that he was going to be in trouble, so he
sent the troops to the American embassy. They had the
different negotiations, and then after thirty six hours of the
standoffs and the Americans let him go, and then he
was handed over not to the provincial government but to
the central government. The troops spent outer layer yeah to
(21:02):
the representative there, and then they flew him to Beijing
for interrogation. So that's the big instant milestone. And then
people start to understand that the reason he escaped to
the American embassy is because Neil Heywood the death, so
people start to check look up and then I think
the British government also was alerted of this and they
(21:24):
also requested investigation.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
I love the way that people are thinking, like they're
putting together the pieces. This must be the police chief
who is far left and is anti American, anti Western,
and he says, save me. And you said, you know
that people were connecting it to Neil Heywood in his death,
which was questionable this businessman. But who are the people.
(21:48):
It's not the media, right because the media is controlled
by the Chinese government.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
That's a great question.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Before he left for the American Embassy, the Peace Chief Wan,
he prepared four cell phones with a different phone card,
the same card.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
He prepared four cell phones.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
He typed the different messages in case, he said, in
case I'm killed or if I something happened. He gave
the cell phones to his friends and he said, will
you hear that either something I'm caught or news of
my death or something. Please send the message over to
(22:26):
the different chat groups. And then so the fourth phones,
the first message was like please chief one escape to
the American embassy.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
Because he knew so much about the murder of the British.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Businessman, and then another message saying that the party chief
of chung Jin the city, he's very corrupt, he invents
a lot of funds. And then the police knew about it.
And the third some messages saying that the wife of
the police chief murdered Neil Heywood. You know this stuff
they set out and when the government because by the
time you sent out to the chat group and by
(22:59):
the time censors they found it, there was a period
of time during this time already spread very widely. But
this was all planned by the police before he entered
the American and consumate there.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
But isn't all of that still like I know, there's
the Chinese version of Twitter, right, isn't that all still
very tightly controlled chat rooms too? Are they not all
still tightly controlled by the Chinese government? Or is there
some underground thing that I don't know about?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
In those days, micro crops is similar to our Twitter,
it would call micro blogs plot It was controlled by
the government, but sometimes they cannot control it all beca
it's such a big country. It was so in those
at the early age that the two thousand was not
as advanced as here like right now, China has the AI,
all the different control mechanisms, and there was certain kind
(23:49):
of freedom. People use firewalls, they can use the access,
they could ease the access Twitter, and also we were
sometimes they send out messages and then the government the
censors found out going to delete it right away. But
between the time the government census found out there was
like a couple of hours. It is already there. People
already spread very very The new spread very fast. And
(24:11):
that was the first time. Previously I would say that
we hear or staying in the West right if something
happened in China, even some of the senior officials died,
we might probably hear about it a week later or
two weeks later. But this is the first time because
the interconnection world, we are and almost like simultaneous with
(24:32):
watching live like when the microblocks they sent out the
messages about Neil Heywood might have been killed by the
wife of the party chief, and immediately overseas we knew
it simultaneously too, So that's how we were able to
jump on the story right away. And then the overseas
media played a huge role in spreading the news to
(24:52):
when they deleted the block. But the overseas media picked
up right away, like some of the Chinese language media
out like that my co author he ran, and then
some of the English media, that Times, the Financial Times,
New York Times, War Street Journal, and they had a
lot of reporters who are very well.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
Trained in Chinese language.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
And then they were so fast too, so this whole thing,
it just played out simultaneously and were able to watch it.
So that's the second milestone event, the defection of the
police chief, and also triggered people's interests in the Nilhi death,
and so this case resurfaced again.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
So let's go back to February of twenty twelve. So
the police chief has asked for asylum. The US says no,
They've turned it over to the Chinese government, not the
political chiefs, the mayor's troops, but the Chinese government, and
the police chief is brought in where Beijing or someplace
for interrogation.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yes, the police chief was brought into Beijing for interrogation.
They wanted to protect him because he held very important
information about the party Chip toun Kin. So that's how
this all started. And then once this whole thing happened,
and even though China tried very much to control information,
(26:16):
control the flow of information, and then you spread very
very quickly. And then the Chinese media was forced to
publicize it. They just say the police chief has escaped
to the American counsulate. But then the Chinese government decided
now to do anything because it was right before a
very important conference in China in March, so they did
(26:39):
not want to disturb peace. And then they want this
conference to go on. And then party chief, they are
very they all delegates to the the legislative conference in March,
the Chinese legislature they meet once a year for a
couple of weeks in Beijing.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
So they decided now to do it.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
But then the media, especially the international media, who were
basing beating, They kept asking. They wanted to show what
the police chief allowed with true they kept asking, but
the Chinese media refused to our Chinese officials refused to
answer the question. And also because twenty twelve I told
you before, twenty twelve is a big year for China's
(27:18):
succession plan. Every four years, the Chinese president is like
they need to have a new croup. Leaders are taken
over and in China it's supposed to be a collective leadership.
So the top echelon of the organization is called the
Pola Buier Standing Committee.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
This is a group of seven senior leaders.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And then they formed the Standing Committee of the Communist Party,
and then the president is the top and then controls
this committee. So there was taught that the party chief
might be a candidate for the Poler Buller Standing Committee.
So people start to say, oh, is this police chief defection.
(28:00):
It's going to affect his ascension, It's going to affect
his political career. And then the Chinese government totally shout
off the rumor, saying it's a rumor. And then this
defection is a totally isolated incident and then nothing is
going to happen. And then suddenly back in March and
(28:20):
they made an announcement that they decide to remove the party
chief from his post. And then in April they officially
announced that he and his wife they were involved in
the murder. They starts in the murder of British businessman
Neil Heywood.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Well, now this is intriguing because now I want to
know what they say. The motive is, why would okay,
and let's talk about their names. So do I call
him Bow and how do I say her name?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Ball is the name of the former party chief Tun
King Bo. Yeah, and his wife's name is good g U.
You asked the right exactly the right question. After Ball
and they were under arrest and the party said they're
going to do a serious investigation. People start to ask
(29:07):
why do they want to kill Neil Heyward? Who is
Neil Hayward? And what is the connection? What prompts the
party chief's wife, this prominent family, she has everything she wanted.
Why did she want to kill a British businessman? So
this is the whole as the party. Even though the
party controls the flow of information, and then a lot
(29:31):
of people start to information start to leak out. The
leakers of the information they have different motives too, because first,
previously China is impossible because there's no transparison in the
Chinese government, impossible to know what is happening.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
But then a lot of.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
People within the party who feel threatened by the party
chiefs ascension.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
They were we call it their political opponents.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
They want to tarnish his reputation, they want to end
his chances for being promoted, so they start to leak
information about what was really happening. That's how my co
author was in New York. He ran the Chinese media
company and also publishing house. A lot of different sources
start to call him and start to explain the question
(30:20):
you just raised. Who was Neil Hayward and why did
grule the party? Chip's wife want to kill him. During
that the next six or seven month and we start
to get this NonStop, like the feeding with the information,
were able to sit together a picture of what happened.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
It turned out that Neil.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Hayward he himself when he came to China to teach English,
and when he was in Dallian. I told you that
he ended in the city in the coastal city in
northeastern part of China. At that time, Wall was the
mayor of Dahlian and his wife lived in that city
and they they were very prominent couples in the city
(31:02):
because they were the children of the senior commings leaders.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
So nil he Would was also in the city.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
He heard about them, and then eventually when he heard
that Ball and his wife, they send their son to
study in Herold in the UK. It was the same
school that Nil hey Would he attended his alma major.
So he wrote a letter to the couple saying that
I'm also a graduate from.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
There, I know UK very well.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
I'm willing to take care of your son if you
needed help. So that's how he got connected with the
Ball family. So when when their son went to study
in the UK, the wife who Kaili, went to accompany
her son.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
They stayed in London.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Nil he would met them a couple of times, and
then they became really good friends. So Nil he would
told the wife, you can go back to China. I'll
be here and be the guardian. And then so before
he left, she offered him an old car, an expensive car,
but they can drive a sound around during the weekend.
And also when her son needed money, and then Neil
(32:10):
Heywood was the middle person to wire money to the
UK because you know it could be more risky if
the official they wire money oversees it could be perceived
as scandalous.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
So I have two questions. So first will be what
was Neil Haywood's motivation to do any of this? Was
he being paid? Why would he befriend them? Certainly not
to just be helpful.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
In China, is they call connections once you have the
political connections into this powerful family and then you can
find more opportunities in the future. For example, he could
tell the other Western businessman who want to do business
in China and say, I have this powerful connection. I'm
Groad friends with the Bull family, and then you know
(32:55):
it's a political capital. He wanted to take vantage drops
it gradually start to who got his way into the
Boy family guard their trust.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
And then when he returned.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
To Dahlia, he started a business consulting firm and used
the connections to get projects from the politicians there, and
then he started to prosper and then their connection get
closer and closer, and then Ball and his wife started
to get Neil. He would involved in some of the
(33:27):
major contracts. For example, major wealthy businessmen wanted to build
a whole some luxury bush style town homes or resorts,
and then they want Neil to be involved in this.
Neil he would say, oh, I can bring some wealthy
bush people here they can buy the luxury homes, or
(33:47):
I can you know, make connections with Western investors they
can invest.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
So it was a big, huge.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Construction projects and then Neil was involved for several years,
but they after a couple of years he never brought
any wealthy British businessman who would want to go all
the way to tun Jing to Southwestern trying to invest there.
You know, I guess it was very tough tough sell.
And also the other thing is during that time, boy,
(34:15):
she like realized this construction project could be a liability
because if people find out, they'll know that the party
chief is giving up this lucrative contract to his friends
and to his family members. So the party chief canceled
the projects and Neil was initially promised twenty million dollars
if the projects work, if the construction projects went through,
(34:38):
but then it didn't go through. It fell through because
the government canceled the projects. He didn't get a single penny.
And then after he worked for these several years and
then he got nothing, he got desperate. He had money problems,
so he wanted to get money. He said, at least
you should compensate me for the time I put in there.
So he tried to pressure Gool but they didn't want
(34:59):
to give him money. They felt like he didn't contribute anything. Also,
this project was killed right there was the information saying
that he went to travel to London and then he
knew that he always wired money to the Sun. They
overseas assets was controlled by the Sun. He went there
to talk to the Sun, saying that you need to
pay me the money.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
The Sun rejected, Oh.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Wow, how much money were they sending this kid?
Speaker 2 (35:22):
We cannot verify the information. Some of they said twenty
million dollars, thirty million dollars, you know it's that. But yes,
you see a lot of the wealthy Chinese and the
senior governor officials during the past two decades, they siffned
a lot of money out to pick because for they
felt like it was not stable in China. A lot
of people they investled money and they want to transfer
(35:44):
overseas through different means. And there was a lot of
money flown to the West or to the neighboring countries.
So this was just an example, and he would supposed
to go out all the receipt he said.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
He started to threaten the kid, saying.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
If you don't pay the money out of all this
event to show about how you guys try to smuggle
money overseas. And then one day it was supposedly saying
that he held Both's son against his will in the
apartment for a couple of hours trying to get money
out of him. So he called his mother and then
(36:21):
told her about it.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
And that I'm sure did not she didn must not
have reacted well.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
To that exactly. So the mother got desperate. She's worried.
She said, oh my god, this Neil Heywood is going
to try to kill my son. So she became so desperate.
At that time, she became friends with the party chief
and she consulted with party ship, say what are we
going to do about this case? How do we do
the threat? So the party chief said, there's a couple
(36:47):
of ways we can do it. We can lure him
out of Beijing to come to Chunking, and we can
probably use a drug ring, saying that he's a drug
ring leader of foreign foreigners selling drugs in in China
were China had very tough drug laws. So we can
do We can kill him in a shootout and then
plan some drugs in there. But then they realized he
(37:10):
would still a British businessman if we do this drug operations,
if you cause an international incident, So they concouted the
plots and maybe that's a good idea to get him
into Chunking and then to poison him and they kill him.
And also they felt like it's less risky for a
couple of reasons. It's first except drinking, and then there
(37:33):
was no evidence he could have died of a heart attack.
The other thing is there was suspicion that Neil Haywood
might have been worked for six and then also he
sometimes played up the mystery and it was said that
his license plate with double seven or something. So he
was under the surveilance of the Chinese government as well.
(37:55):
So the police chiefs rush now is that since he
was a British spy, if we killed him quietly, right,
the British probably won't make a big issue out of
it because they didn't want they did not want to
reveal his true identity. And also the Chinese government, the
central government, they probably wanted there too because they suspect
it could be a British spy. So they concoted this plan.
(38:16):
But the wife or the police, sheef that she has
to do it herself. So the plan was on February thirteenth,
so Gool called Neil Heywood and invited him to toung
Qing and bought him first class airline tickets. Invite him
to tong Qin, saying I have some important business deal
to discuss with you. She also sent her driver was
(38:40):
a retired military man, sent her driver to pick up
Neil Heywood in Beijing. So they came together to toung
Qing and then they put him up in this hotel
called the English version of the hotel called Lucky Holiday Hotel.
This hotel is located on top of mountain, secluded area
(39:02):
and they have different individuals British style the two story villas,
and they put him up in a room called sixteen
oh five. So I actually visited the hotel while researching
for my book. It's very secluded and if something happened,
nobody will know. It's because of the tree tree lined streets,
and then each villa has some distance from it's kind
(39:26):
of far away from the others. It's the perfect crime scene.
So they they brought him over and they drove him
on their way to see Neil Haywood, who bought a
bottle of the expensive I think they call the Royal
Salute whiskey. And then they brought the whiskey, and then
they brought some of the muscle relaxant, and then some
(39:47):
rat poisoning which contains cyanide. And then they also brought
some herbal ecstasy, some of the crystal map. They brought
this one they want to spread near the crime scene
to show that as if he had the rock overdose
or drink over drinking, according to the core papers. They
got to the hotel, they started drinking, and then in
(40:08):
China there is a very common practice and to force
your guests to drink. Oh, drink this bottom up, that's common. Yeah,
bottom up. It's supposed to be a good get of
good will. It bottom up, and sometimes it's hard to
turn it. Always tell people when you go there, they
ask if you can't drink too much? Just said I
don't drink. But they normally it's a friendly gesture. Oh
(40:29):
come out, drink white, you'l drink whine. So soon, very quickly.
Neil Hay would obviously had a low alcohol tolerance, so
very quickly. He almost passed out once he went to
the bathroom to vomit, and they immediately they put the
mess in a Soi shale pad and then they fed
him the medicine. Also because they mixed the muscle relaxing
(40:52):
in the alcohol, he's probably by that time. It was
pretty helpless at the time, they fed the red poison
into a mouth, and then when he started to have
different reactions, and then they tried to control him. And
then once they thought he was he died or something,
so they left and then pulled the Donati sturb side
(41:14):
on and then they left the villa.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
So after she left.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
The villa, and then she called the police chief right away,
she said, I just did it. And then the police
chief said, don't worry about it, I'll take care of it.
They waited till the hotel staff member found the bodies,
so the police chief said, took police officers there. They
took some blood samples quietly but without telling the family everything,
(41:40):
and then they took two blood samples and then they
had his body cruminated, so they made it as if
he died of excessive drinking.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
So I know you can't get into the mind of
Neil Heywood, but I don't understand why he would after
threatening this couple's son, you know, trying to exhort my
out of them or whatever, why would he think it
was a good idea to accept an invitation from Goo.
And I assume Bo signed off on all of this Also,
(42:11):
I mean, he knew that they were very upset with him.
Why did he think that this was going to be okay?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
I think that at first he knew Gool for a
long time, the kind of friends. Also, if the wife
of a party chief costs you to discuss a business meeting,
you cannot decline. If this, you know, he knew that
there was the only chance. He was probably still holding
to the hope that if he couldn't get money from
the other sources, right, maybe Goo was creating a new
(42:36):
projects so to pay him back in a different way.
I just think that he was desperate for money, even
though his friends later said he was seemed to be okay.
But I think in China, under those circumstances, the wife
of very powerful men they called you to say, could
you fly oward to Tung King too, we can discuss
some business deals.
Speaker 4 (42:57):
There's no way he could turn it down.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
But he was suspicious because he would would have thought
that the wife of this prominent politician in China would
have wanted to kill him. So that's the rational, That's
what we can only speculate on that. But regardless, he came,
and he even drank with the woman, and also with the.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
Driver and then he was killed there.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
And then a few days later the police chief took
care for it. Everything seemed to be okay, but Ghoul
became a little paranoid.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Well no kidding, I'm sure she was.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
Yeah, he got the paranoid.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
So he was worried that the police chief might have
some other evidence, so he wanted the police chief to
destroy the evidence. And then the police chief they brought
some of the police officers and brought some of the documents,
say we don't have copies here, I will destroy them
in front of you. But he actually made copies, but
(43:55):
he had them destroyed. At the same time, the police
chip had his own mode hips. Two of the things
that happened during that time. First, the police chief have
been transferred to chan Ching from a different city. Some
of his friends in that different city was under investigation.
And because he when he was in chan Ching, he
(44:16):
arrested a lot of people and put them in jail,
he made a lot of political enemies, so they wanted
to arrest his friends in another city. And then in retaliation,
so the police chief was asking the party chief, his
friend or Good's husband, Ball said, would you like to
help me resolve it to intervene and then so to
(44:38):
have my friends released. And Ball refused to do that
because he's not going to stick his head out for
some kind of his subordinates, right, and it was also
his political risk. He was his year to be elevated
to the highest governing body of China. Another thing is
he also wanted the party chief of changing to give
(44:59):
him a promote. He was loving for promotion, so he
thought now that he did a favor to the wife
of the party ship, he wanted payback, so he wanted
Good to lobby her husband to give him a promotional
to help him out, and then Goul did, but what
she turned her down, So the tensions started to build
(45:20):
right and also so the wife felt like he was
not able to help.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
The police sheep.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
He knew the police chip would try to retaliate, so
she became so paranoid she decided one day when the
police chief was in Beaging attending a conference, so she
went to his house, raiding his house trying to look
for evidence see if the police cheop was holding any
evidence against her, and then she intergated a lot of
(45:45):
people around him. So the police sheep felt like this
was getting out of control. So he decided to have
a conversation with.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
Ball with the party chief.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
He arranged the meeting with the party chief and then
first he asked the party chief to offer him a
promotion to help him, and the party ship turned it down.
And then he started to say, I just want you
to know that your wife is involved in a very
serious murder case of British business, Neil Haywood. And then
the party chief was very shocked, right he said come
(46:19):
back to me. I'll talk to you later, and then
he started doing a lot of investigations. He rounded up
the people who work for the plice chief try to
find out what was happening. And then we learned that
the police chief was secretly collecting a lot of negative
information about him, and he felt betrayed.
Speaker 4 (46:38):
So the next.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Day when he came over, when the police chief came
over for a second meeting to discuss the murder of
good Kaili, and then the police chief brought this up
again and Ball became so angry that the police chip
hid this whole information from him.
Speaker 4 (46:56):
He slapped the police chief across the face.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Was such a severe slap that only during setting court
that he had a lot on the corner of his mouth,
his ears have some food in the ears.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
Was very severe.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
And also in China, slapping somebody across his face is
considered a huge humilating blow.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
This is to him.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
He felt like he was so loyal to the party
chief for the past six seven years. He helped him
get rid of a lot of the political opponents. He
made so many enemies. You know, he felt wrong. He
was so mad. He just left. He decided to retaliate.
And also after the slap, the police chief announced the
(47:41):
resignation of him, just forced him out.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
This is how the police chief eventually ends up at
the American consulate exactly.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
And then the police chief realized that if he didn't
do anything, he could be killed and then could be murdered.
They could push him off from the high rise saying that.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
He had mental illness.
Speaker 4 (48:03):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
And then he reached out to people in Beijing two
before he went to the American embassy. So he reached
out to his friends in Beijing. But everybody said that
Bull is such a powerful political figure and he was
ready to be elevated. They didn't show much sympathy. But
the only thing they were kind of helpless in a while,
so he felt the only way to save his life
(48:27):
is to run to the American embassy to make the
international scandal and in this way a lot of publicity
might help and then he might have saved his life,
which in the end he did save his life.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Well, what ultimately happened, So he is shipped over to
Beijing and interrogated. What happens to convince the authorities to
then turn on one of their own, this person, you
know Bo, who's supposed to send to you know, this
seven member council right under the president. Do you then
(49:00):
say we're going to put his wife on trial for murder?
What changes just based on what this police chief has
to say.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
So the police chief is very smart. He knew that
the murder case alone wouldn't be able to bring down Ball,
the person that he felt like he was threatening to
kill him, because there was just his evidence saying Nku
Kaila murdered somebody. So during the interrogation, now only he
(49:28):
told authorities about how Neil he would was murdered, he
also provided a lot of evidence to show that Ball
was planning to stay your coup with the top leaders.
Some of the leaders in Beijing trying to jeopardize undermine
the succession process.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
And he had evidence, well that was real evidence that
he had.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
He said he collected evidence. And also Ball happened to
fall into the trap. Is Bough personally since he was
the son of this prominent Commings leader. Right his personality,
he's very even when he was the mayor of a
small city, became the Commerce Minister of China, and when
(50:12):
the party ship chu Qing, he is the person who
is very high profile figure.
Speaker 4 (50:17):
He's very loud and flamboyant in a way.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Will say each time he went somewhere, he had made
a lot of noises, he made a lot of enemies.
Speaker 4 (50:25):
Like when he was in chu Qing.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
The first thing he did he got rid of the
police chief and have him executed. And he launched this
program completely reminiscent of China in the nineteen sixties and
the cultural revolution. Like everybody started seeing the old revolutionary sounds,
like when we were growing up in China in the
nineteen sixties, it's like the Christian sounds. It's like the
(50:50):
every day we have seen the sounds to praise Chama Maud,
praise communists and that whole thing has long been repudiated.
We found was you know, And he started the whole thing.
He said, China after thirty years of capitalist reforms which
haven't gone anywhere, and the gap the rich and poor
is such it could jeopardize the rule of the Commist party.
Speaker 4 (51:14):
We need to go back to the rule. So he
called him campaign and singing.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
Red sounds and strike against organized crimes.
Speaker 4 (51:23):
So he did a lot of this, and then he.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Persecuted a lot of his political opponents, who made a
lot of enemies. And then a lot of the people
in Beijing they felt threatened by him. So when one
started to say that he not only he did not
want to be the party chief, he did not want
to be elevated to the pol bearer member.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
He wanted to be the number one in China.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
And then he wanted to be He and some other
senior members of the Polybuer member the governing body's member.
They want to build their lines overthrow the rule of
the conference that covered the presidence. So he used cakes
and said sometimes she would made disparent and remarks about
the senior leaders.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
But was this true? Was any is this true that
he was saying.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Dumba is a true but I think the more they exaggerated,
and a lot of his political components, they couldn't wait
to use these two, whether it's you undermine him and
get rid of him.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
So I feel all different kinds of things about Boa
and Goole. So I felt badly for them because it
sounded like Heywood was really intimidating their son and trying
to extort money, and then didn't feel badly for them
because they're sending money overseas when they shouldn't be. And
then you're saying that he's executed a former police chief
and this current police chief is scared for his life,
(52:44):
but it also sounds like he's being that Boa is
being persecuted for something he didn't really do, even though
it does sound like he probably would like to do it.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
So I just I don't know where all this is going.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
This is a political game that you're succession, right, Everyone
want to get ahead. But the party, the Central Party
Committee has also had already had a plan the Chijing
Ping as the successor to the present position. And now
you have somebody here who comes try to disrupt the
(53:18):
status ball and they're not going to let it happen.
And then they want to get rid of him. And
then also some of his policies during that time, people
felt threatened because they felt like he was reversing China's
policy thirty years of trying to finally get into the
close to the west and get opened up, and you
go into the mild era, you start to do this.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
So a multiple factors and.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Then really his political opponents said, now we finally got evidence.
They use this murder case and successfully they got rid
of him. So after Wali Jin had this his own reportings,
and then the funny thing is when right after committed murder,
he called the police chief to told him about it.
(54:01):
The police chief knew that he could use this later,
so he taped the whole conversation wow of a Goo
Kaila admitting that she killed Neil Haywood to protect her
soon and so he tape everything. He also had the
blood samples to show that Neil Haywood died of sini
(54:21):
not rather than except drinking. So he had all this
thing preserved and he turned it over to the Central
Party Committee and then they used this and the final
they decided to hold a public trial.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
At first I thought the police chief is paranoid, but
I guess now that I know that his predecessor had
been executed by Bella, then I understand why he had
collected all of this stuff. What ultimately happens. So Google's
on trial for murdering Haywood, right.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
Yes, and then and the public pressure, international pressure, they
decided to put him on the show trial Like the
whole trial happened much anticipated, I think in August twenty thirteen,
a year after. And then the whole trial lasted seven hours.
They claimed that they have interviewed more than three hundred
(55:09):
witnesses and then the officers stuff like that, but they
never did any cross examination. And then they just presented
some of the evidence. A lot of the evidence. They
mentioned that the police she provided and something they never like.
They never played the tape and they just had goog KaiA.
She went out there. You could tell that we were watched.
(55:30):
It was little all because she used to be this
stunning woman. She used to be called the kinda on
aessense of China.
Speaker 4 (55:37):
But she was there.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
But she said very contraved in a very contrived tale,
saying that sounded very repentant, saying that I killed Niol
hay Would because he threatened my son and that I
did something terribly wrong. And you know, she confessed the murder.
After the trial a few days later, she was sentenced
to death penalty, but waiting more two year years and
(56:00):
they try they extend that to life imprisonments.
Speaker 4 (56:04):
So that's okay.
Speaker 2 (56:05):
So I think the trial is so come down in
such a hasty manner, so so many unsolved questions, And
then after she died, people still didn't believe that she
really killed Neil Hayward. First she was supposed to be
They said that she was diagnosed with the severe mental
health issues. She had schizophrenia, and she had severe bipolar symptoms. Right,
(56:28):
and then if she and she was heavy medicated, and said,
how would you how could you trust her own words
without letting other witnesses interview other witnesses or you know
that they didn't even play the tape. And then there
was also the thing is that she consulted with the
police chief before Nil Haywood was invited to chun Ching
(56:49):
after he arrived in toun Jing. And then the police
she was supposed to monitor everything because he helped her obstrate.
Speaker 4 (56:57):
Their home murder kids.
Speaker 2 (56:58):
Right, she was a lawyer, and then all the police
chief was helping her, right, why didn't she take some
basic precaution. For example, when she was trying to administer
the rad poison, she didn't even wear gloves, and then
she had her fingerprints all over the stuff. And also
some people say that there were some other people's footprints
(57:21):
in the room they found out, but they never explored
this evidence. And also more importantly, they did not believe
that she was capable of murdering Neil Haywood. And because
the rat poisoning itself in China, red Points considered a
very tiny amount of sinid, not enough to kill the person.
(57:42):
The police chief said that he took two blood samples
before he was cremated. One blood sample had no trace
of sinid in it at all, but the second blood
sample that while was worried that could be teraminated. He
gave the blood sample to a friend and then the
friend transported to another city to captain refrigerator. And then
(58:05):
when this whole case came out, one you said, I
was so worried that Ball and the GUKAILI they would
find out, they would damage the evidence.
Speaker 4 (58:13):
So I transferred the aviding to another city.
Speaker 2 (58:16):
But then the second evidence of the blood voles whatever
they took and then contain sinide just the right amount
to kill somebody that said, how could you be so
accurate to put the right amount there? So there's all
these different un answered the questions. So in my book
that we argue that Gu Kaili herself was not capable enough.
Speaker 4 (58:38):
To commit the murder alone.
Speaker 2 (58:40):
We strongly believe that the police chief has a strong
motive to help perpetrate the murder because once he had
enough evidence against Gu Caili, he could use as a
leverage to lobby for promotion with Ball because he felt
he was he had a trump card, is your wife
killed a British businessman and then you'd better give me
(59:03):
a promotion otherwise have to publicize.
Speaker 1 (59:05):
That everybody is horrible in this story.
Speaker 2 (59:08):
Nobody's innocent, So everybody has their own different motives. It's
just a corruption within China, is you know, the money
and power, and then this whole thing so entwined in
the story, and then you know, the police chief ended
up because he himself tried so hard to use different
ways to bring down the Chunjian party chief to save
(59:29):
his own life. And then the party chiefs political opponents
in Beijing they've used the perfect excus to bring him down.
And then Onely Jean, through his collaboration with Boss political opponents,
he was able to save his life. And then he
was put on trial as well. Due to his collaboration.
(59:49):
He was only sentenced to fifteen years in prison.
Speaker 3 (59:53):
This is the police chief, right, the police chief, Okay,
so tell me what happens with everybody. So the police
chief gets fifteen years in prison as like an accessory
or whatever.
Speaker 4 (01:00:01):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
And then Ball was locked behind bars right before the succession.
The succession normally happened in October, and then they extended
for one month in November. And then at the party
in congress when the new leadership was going to take over,
everything went according to plan because Ball was safely locked
behind bars. And then after the succession was done, and
(01:00:26):
then they start the purchase.
Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
So Ball was the first one to go.
Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
He was sentenced to lifeline imprisonment for embezzlement public fund investment.
And then the second part is all the people who
were in Beijing, there were some seiate leaders. They were
all gradually they were purged and they were sentenced to
lifelong imprisonment or different kind of punishment in the name
of corruption in this way to guarantee that the coup
(01:00:54):
did not happen. And then they also call it a
political cup because you bore was trying to his biggest
crime is to try to stay a coup against the
current leadership. That was the main reason. And then highlight
one of the reasons we felt like she was so
willingly a magical crime. We felt like she must have
(01:01:17):
struck a deal with the Chinese government.
Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
Two things.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
First they let go of her son, who studied in
New York and then later moved to Canada. Bo Blah
blah was the name of the sun. And then right
now they said, if you plead guilty, we will spur
her sign of because if in a strict legal sense,
her son was also involved in the corruption scandal, right
(01:01:41):
you transfer the money out and he was the receiving end.
And then they never pursue an hrgist against her son.
And then said down one thing.
Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
I think.
Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
The other thing is she porportrayed the murder alone. She
thought she could could have saved her husband, but that
was not the case. But then she's still languishing in jail.
And then during the trial of her husband, he added
a New Triss. He kept saying that the police sheep
and his wife had an affair and they were supporting
(01:02:14):
each other. That's why she conducted the murder. And then
everything was done without his knowledge and all that, but
you know, it didn't help. And then the main reason
his biggest crime was the political as the political call,
rather than the murder.
Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
So he was jailed.
Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
And then recently there was a rumor saying that he
was diagnosed with liver cancer. He was a medical parole.
Somebody said he died, but nobody can verify the information,
just pure rumor right now. But one thing is for sure,
he's still locked behind bars. And when we were doing
the story, we interviewed that China insider before his verdict
(01:02:54):
was announced. We were asking said, how many years do
you think he will get? The guy said, I don't
know how many years would get, but one thing for sure,
they would never let him get out alive and become
a threat to the current leadership. So they achieved their goal.
Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
What about gool you said she died, Did she die
in prison?
Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
No, that there was the boar is nobody knows. She's
still in jail as far as we know. And also
receiving psychiatric help. I know that her son right now is.
Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
Practicing law somewhere in Canada.
Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
My coaptor met with him before he left for Canada
in New York City, and I think that in our
book we mentioned that he's probably the last hope, is
the descending this Bole family, this political dynasty, and this
soll ended with the murder of Neil Haywood.
Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
If you love historical true crime stories, check out the
audio versions of my books The Ghost Club, All That
Is Wicked, and American Sherlock and Don't Forget. There are
twelve seasons of my historical true crime podcast, Tenfold More
Wicked right here in this podcast feed, scroll back and
give them a listen if you haven't already. This has
been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Alexis
(01:04:21):
a Morosi. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. This episode
was mixed by John Bradley. Curtis Heath is our composer,
artwork by Nick Toga. Executive produced by Georgia Hardstark, Karen
Kilgarriff and Danielle Kramer. Follow Wicked Words on Instagram at
tenfold More Wicked and on Facebook at Wicked Words Pod
Host
Kate Winkler Dawson
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