Ep. 921: Southern Deer Hunting and Backwoods University with Lake Pickle

This week on the show I’m joined by Lake Pickle to discuss southern deer hunting, summer hunting prep work, and the fascinating wildlife conservation stories that inspired his new podcast with MeatEater, "Backwoods University."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
the whitetail Woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile
hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light
Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on
the show, I'm joined by Lake Pickle to discuss Southern
deer hunting, summer deer prep, and the fascinating stories of
wildlife conservation that inspired his new podcast with Meat Eater
Backwoods University. All right, welcome back to the Wired to

(00:42):
Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light. This week
on the show is that just mentioned We are joined
by my buddy, Lake Pickle. He not only has one
of the best names that I've heard, but he is
also a tremendous storyteller, podcaster, hunter, representative of the Southern

(01:02):
Hunting and Fishing community, employee of on X, and the
host of the latest podcast with the mediator network, Backwoods University.
And so today on the show, we do a couple
of things. We discuss his new podcast. We discuss how
he became fascinated with wildlife, wildlife conservation, and the stories

(01:24):
of the people who are who are studying animals and
studying ways that we can keep them around and preserving
our hunting opportunities and traditions. We discuss that, We talk
a little bit about his background as a Southern deer hunter,
his experience. I didn't mention this at the top, but
I should have. He has filmed and worked with the
Primos hunting crew for many years as well, so he

(01:46):
has like this really interesting background and following around diehard
deer hunters like Will Primos or Brad Ferris. And in
this podcast we discuss a little bit of what makes
Southern deer hunting culture unique, what makes the way you
need to hunt in the South unique, whether that be
you know, you know, hunting around people that are baiting

(02:06):
or hunting in big woods country. So we talk tactics,
We talk about summer deer prep, you know, doing camera work,
velvet scouting, all that kind of stuff, and much much more.
So today you've got a varied show. We're talking deer,
we're talking wildlife, we're talking conservation, and we're doing it
with a very fun, very informative, great guest, mister Pickle.

(02:29):
And I just want to say very quickly before we
get to that if you are listening to this in
real time when this podcast just dropped, which is well,
I'm recording this on June thirtieth, this podcast will drop.
I believe it will be July third. If you are listening,
then you are hopefully very well aware of the public
land sale that was proposed within the Senate Reconciliation Bill.

(02:55):
We've been talking about a ton on social media. You
hopefully listen to the podcast Me and Kal that we
dropped last week as a bonus. But as you probably saw,
that sale was removed from the bill. So the mandatory
sale of over a million acres of public lands was
taken out of the bill. That is great news. Each

(03:16):
and every one of you who made a phone call
or sent an email, or informed your friends and family,
or posted about it, or sent letters, whatever it was,
if you were involved in this campaign to stop the
sale of public lands, I want to thank you from
the bottom of my heart. Thank you for your actions,
for your words, for the time you spent and invested

(03:38):
in standing up for our public places and wildlife and
our opportunities to hunt and fish and get out there.
It's so important and I'm encouraged by the impact we had.
The rallying of the hunting and fishing and larger outdoor
community in opposition to this was phenomenal. This was an

(03:58):
unbelievable kind of coalescens of different kinds of people all saying, hey,
mister politician, we are not going to stand for this.
We care about our public lands. This is as American
as it gets. In Our lives in many ways revolve
around these places. Get out of here, keep your hands
off our public lands. And our voices were heard. So

(04:22):
our voices matter, our advocacy matters, and we can make
a difference. So I want to remind people to things.
Number One, don't ever forget this in the future. Your
voice does matter. We can make a difference. It is
worth engaging on these things. It's worth paying attention to
these things. And number two, that's very important to remember

(04:43):
because this isn't the end. This is not the last
proposed sale that we're going to see someday down the road.
If you read my book That Wild Country, or if
you've listened to past podcasts I've done about this, you
know we were talking about this back in twenty fourteen,
Back in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. We talked
about it earlier this year. For decades and decades, you know.

(05:03):
In my research for my book, what stood out was
that for as long as we have had public lands,
people have been trying to dispose of them, transfer them,
sell them, cut them down, drill them up, dig them up,
whatever it is to extract dollars from them. They have
been trying for not ten years, not twenty, not fifty,
not eighty one hundred plus years. They have been trying this.

(05:24):
So don't for a second think that they are not
going to continue trying this in the future. There are
a whole bunch of things being proposed in this bill
that maybe by the time you're listening to this has
already passed. There are other things in that bill that
are downright destructive to many of our public lands. And
outside of just that bill, things that were originally included

(05:44):
in the bill but had to get pulled out for
varying reasons. That stuff still being pushed by politicians today,
things like putting in the mine on the edge of
the Boundary waters, putting in a road through one of
the last unroaded places in the wild of Alaska, things
like in the coastal plaine of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge,
where Cal and I just visited this unbelievable, still intact,

(06:07):
still truly wild ecosystem. They want to turn that into
an industrial center too. There's so many examples I can't
even list them all. Right now, we're gonna have to
keep engaging. We're gonna have to keep staying up to
date in this stuff. This was not like a blip
on the radar. This is just kind of the way
it's gonna be. If you care about hunting, if you
care about fishing, if you care about your public lands,

(06:29):
We're needed. You're needed. This is how we make sure
that these things are still around for our kids and
their kids, and selfishly for us, hopefully in the next
twenty thirty, forty fifty years, however long I'm around, I
sure hope that I can return to these wild places
that I've experienced and still see them in a wild
and intact state. Still bill a hunt there, still bill
a fish there. And that's on us, because if we

(06:53):
don't stand up for these places, certainly nobody else will.
It's the folks that are out there, seeing them, feeling them,
experiencing them, hunting on them, fishing on them, camping on them.
We're the only ones who really get it, So how
can we expect anyone else to stand up if we
are not willing to. So that is it for me.
I appreciate everything each and every one of you did.

(07:15):
Let's keep the momentum. Let's keep on cranking on this stuff.
Let's keep our public lands and wildlife and wild places
around for the future. And with that little monologue out
of the way, appreciate you being here. Let's get to
my chat with lake Pickle. All right, joining me now

(07:36):
on the line is mister lake Pickle. Welcome to show.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
Lake Man, happy to be here, Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, hey, it's my pleasure. I am very excited not
only to be chatting with you, but to be chatting
with you as a official meat eater contributor. I don't
know if i'd call you like a colleague, but be
least a contributor, right, I mean, already officially in the
meat of your family now, So welcome.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
I man, it's one of those things like I never
thought contributor, cut whatever whatever title you want to bestow
on it, it's not one that I pictured myself having
but I'm happy to have it. So yeah, just I'm
excited about everything about everything tied to that. It's been
a fun time.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
I bet, well, it's It's been fun to watch your
stuff from Afar, you know, seeing you're involvement with Primos
and then your Guys' podcast and then stuff you don't
with on X and then when I've heard that you were,
you know, bumping around with Clay and Brent more often.
That was great to see. And then, as I just
told you off air, I actually sometime this winter was

(08:39):
talking to my boss and like, hey, you know, I
really want to do a podcast that's more about you know,
just wildlife issues and people and stuff like that. And
he's like, man, that's a great idea. But you know
Lake Pickle, right, he's already doing that podcast for us.
And I'm like, oh man, it's a smart guy. He
keep beat me to the punch. So so yeah, I'm

(09:01):
stoked for it, very excited for what you got in
store for us with Backwoods University. How are you feeling
about stuff so far? The first couple episodes are out.
Does it feel real yet?

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Are you?

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Are you excited that it's out there? I know it
could be like a tense moment when your baby metaphorically
goes out into the world for the first time.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
Dude, I was obviously to answer one of those questions
like I can answer one of them very simply. You
asked if I was like excited that it was out there.
I'm stoked that it's out there, because it was like this,
this this process of like kind of concepting and figuring
out because honestly, like I can't fully take credit, like
I didn't come out the Gate and go I'm gonna

(09:44):
do a podcast about wildlife and how human we as
humans interact with them and influence them. It came out
the Gate is just like a wildlife biology focused podcast,
and the human side of it didn't really come into play.
And I kind of got into the weeds of really
starting to build some episodes, and I went to Clay.
I was like, Clay, there's not a single wildlife species

(10:08):
or wildlife process or anything that I can talk to
or talk about where you have to mention us like
we as humans, like we're a huge influence in all
of it, And it could go either way, like a lot.
That's the interesting part because a lot of times when
you hear human influence on wildlife. It's associated with the
negative and that does happen, obviously, but there's some episodes

(10:31):
that will come out where we've had a overwhelmingly positive effect.
But it's been really fascinating. But yeah, the day that
episode one came out, I don't think i'd ever been
more I don't nervous, isn't the word, Just like, I
don't know, it's just tense, you know, like there's just
a lot of I'd never put so much work into

(10:54):
a single podcast, and it was just kind of I guess, like, man,
I hope people like it. That was just that's just
what I was hop But I hope people liked it,
and I hope that it translated that it was you know,
people were understanding what I was trying to get across. Thankfully,
I had a really busy day that day. I wasn't
able to just sit there and twitter my belt the
other one.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Scroll on Instagram for comments.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, yeah, just yeah, nod on drywall. But yeah, yeah,
I'm psyched that it's out. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
So, so for folks who haven't heard yet, can you
give us like the one minute cliff notes on what
the theme and direction of this show is sure.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
So so what we say is backwards University focuses on wildlife,
wild places and people who dedicate their lives to conserving both,
and that's really what we do. Like, the first episode
that came out was like kind of an overarching view
on bison, and when you first hear that, you're like, oh, bison,
you know, I kind of cliche honestly, but it's like,

(11:55):
but bison in the Eastern United States, bison in the
Eastern Unit of States don't get talked about a lot man.
And what was funny is I was kind of like
just I had a large amount of time to do
these first couple episodes just because we were trying to
figure everything out, and so I was kicking around ideas,
and I was kicking around this bison idea, and I
was like, is this as like a unknown of a

(12:19):
topic as I think it is? And I would be
talking to friends of mine from around here that are
outdoorsmen and at hunt Fish that care a lot about
conservation history, and I would point blank some of them,
I'd go, hey, did you know that we had bison
here in Mississippi? And they'd be like, are you serious.
I'm like, yeah, yeah, we did, and the more I

(12:39):
bumped around and asked folks that and talked about it,
I was like, Yeah, this absolutely needs to be talked about.
But human influence is pretty hefty on that one, as
you can imagine. And the most recent one, the one
that came out yesterday, Bob White Quail, that was spurred
off of a personal interest of mine. I got into

(12:59):
up and bird hunting probably six or seven years ago now,
and my mom dug up this picture of my grandfather
quail hunting on the piece of family ground that I
grew up deer hunting on that is almost void of
quail now, and it kicks you down this line of thought.
You're like, well, wait a minute, Like all these stories
of these guys and English pointers and limits of quil

(13:22):
every day and that's just what they did, and now
they're like this foregone almost afterthought of an animal, and
you're like, well, what would happened?

Speaker 2 (13:28):
You know?

Speaker 3 (13:29):
I asked the question, and so that's kind of what
we've been doing, is like you take a look at
an animal or a person. There's one coming up in
a couple of weeks about the first wildlife biologist in
Mississippi who is a woman named Fanny Cook who's in
pretty incredible, but just trying to get a deeper understanding
on wildlife, what they need and then how we influence

(13:52):
them and how we can influence them going forward.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
So you grew up, does I understand it like a
lot of them hunting, fishing, playing the outdoors, doing all
this stuff. When and how did you transition to being
interested in this next kind of level of understanding, Like
or asked another way, why is this set of topics

(14:17):
and issues that this podcast is framed around. Why is
that of interest to you? How did this come about
for you?

Speaker 3 (14:24):
Man? That's a good question. I it kind of like again,
I didn't orchestrate it, you know, like because I mean
when I was a kid growing up hunting, I was
much like any other kid that was in the hunting
I you know, like if something, if my dad would
have let me shoot you over the limit of something,
I probably would have done right, because I just didn't
know any better, you know what I mean, Like you
just don't. You don't think that way, or I didn't.

(14:46):
At least you just are told, hey, you stop at
fifteen doves or you know whatever, and that's just what
you know. But as you get older, I'll tell you
what a lot of what had to do with it was.
I was a wildlife science student at Mississippi State University
and I got in some classes there, like one of

(15:08):
the I remember one of the classes was basically I
can't remember the name of the class, but it was
basically teaching like a like how concert wildlife, conservation, and
agriculture systems could coincide with one another. And that was
the first time i'd heard of like some like CRP
type programs and conservation programs and first and like it

(15:29):
kind of like trend, you know, pushed my thinking further.
And that was the first like I remember that professor
telling us like, well, the reason that they came in
came up with CP thirty three is because all the
fenceros were gone and that was having a terrible effect
on upland birds. And that's the first time I heard
about some sort of link to why we didn't have

(15:51):
quill anymore. And I'm like, whoa, you know, I mean,
it just and it just kicked me down this whole
lot of thought. And then obviously when I went to
primos man, I mean, there's a lot of things I
could be I got a lot to be thankful for, man,
But if anything poured gasoline on that fire, it's the
amount of time I got to spend spend around Will Primos,

(16:14):
because like, one of the first times I met Will
was at a farm that he used to have in
Mississippi Delta called Rivers Run, And one of the first
things he did was I got in a truck with
him and he rode me around his farm and he
was like, that's where we got warm season native grasses planted,
and that's where we got this planet and this, and
we got this for a corridor for the deer. And
I mean, like you my wheels are just spinning. I

(16:36):
was like twenty one, you know, but that extra and
you know, and then him explaining like, hey, where we've
got these warm these native grasses planted. This wasn't Roe crop,
but we put it back in native grasses and now
quill can live there. And you're You're like, what you know?
I mean just and so those just influences like that
over time just really started to peak my interest. And

(17:01):
then I guess it just kind of compounded over time.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, yeah, I can relate to that too. That that
sounds pretty similar to my story, it's you start out
with this just hey, I love this activity. I love
these places, these critters doing this stuff. It's fun. And
then at some point there's all all of a sudden,
this like aha moment where you realize like, oh, there's
a reason why we have this thing or don't have

(17:26):
this thing. Well, there's a reason why we have this
place or or don't have these places like we used to.
You know, there's there's versions of either type. Right, there's
stories on both sides of that coin. And then for
a lot of folks, and then sends you down a
whole bunch of winding rabbit holes as you start chasing
those questions. Right, So, how many episodes do you have

(17:47):
in the can so far? Can't tell me that?

Speaker 3 (17:49):
Four? Well, okay, five?

Speaker 2 (17:51):
All right? So yeah five. And so you've got Bob Weight,
You've got Buffalo, you've got a wildlife biology. So you've
got a breadth of topics. I'm curious, if you were
to zoom out so far, given the topics you've explored,
is there any overarching similarities or themes that you've already

(18:14):
kind of pulled out from this experience so far that
are standing out in your mind.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yeah, yeah, it is, uh, the probably the most abstract one,
but also like the most like powerful one. I think
is you cannot love what you don't understand. And that's,
like I said, that sounds big and broad, but it's true,

(18:44):
the one about the wildlife biologists. Man, and you're a
white tail guy, so you'll appreciate this. Mississippi has a yeah,
and other states might be like this as well. I've
just looked this one introspectively because I'm you know, I'm
I live here from from here, but we have a
very very complex and complicated history with our wildlife and

(19:08):
our natural resources. So right now we have our white
tailed deer population is a little bit over one point
five million in the state. And it's not I mean
and to the point, like our Missipi Department of Wildlife
is literally imploring licensed hunters to shoot more deer, not

(19:30):
go over their limits. But like it's like I think
it's like, uh, it's like five dos and three bucks
or something a year, which is very like a pretty
good bag limit. But they're like the average hunter is
shooting between like one and two a year, you know,
like please shoot more, Like we've got.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Too many sounds like you're deal in Michigan too.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
Yeah, so in in nineteen twenty nine, Yeah, in nineteen
twenty nine, Aldo Leopold made a trip down to Mississippi
to do kind of a survey of the natural resources
because at the time we didn't have a game in
fish department, we had no infrastructure. And it was estimated

(20:09):
in nineteen twenty nine, that's almost one hundred years ago,
not quite twelve hundred deer was the estamate crazy, insane
and it was not you know, and that's what I
mean when I say you can't love what you don't understand.
It was not like we weren't no one set out going,
you know what, We're gonna wipe these out, you know,

(20:30):
or like there was no mal intent. Really there was.
There was a great depression. People were trying to feed
their family. There was market hunting, there was sport hunting
back then, just an over exertion of it. And one
of the coolest things in that Leopold report, and then
the follow up with what Mss Vandy Cook did the
first biologist, is they notated clearly they were like, if

(20:53):
wildlife is going to succeed in this state, we have
to form a partnership with Sportsman. That's they and and
so like the first people that they paired up with
were private landowners that were like in serious concern because
they were like, we don't want to lose this and that.
At the time, you know, it's it's easy to look,
you know, now we have so much information at our

(21:14):
fingertips and like deer management and habitat, we have all
this stuff. Back then, no one knew, no one, no
one knew, but there was a there was a yearning
for it. There was a yearning for understanding. And that's
that's what saved the wildlife of my home state.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Mm hmm. And it's a it's such a a common
story for so many states too. For for so many years,
we thought that these critters were limitless. We thought there
was no way that we could possibly send them to
an oblivion and then kim as a shock when all
of a sudden they started truly disappearing. But yeah, man,

(21:51):
we figured it out the last moment, and thank goodness. Right, Yeah, So,
I just wrapped up a book on this same set
of topics. It's basically exploring the past and future of

(22:11):
fish and wildlife in America. So I've studied a whole
lot of this similar stuff and have been like deep
in the weeds, and I've had this like pendulum swinging experience.
And I'm curious if you have had the same thing
as you've dove into this world. So the more I
learn about our history with wildlife and fish here in
the United States and really where things are going now,

(22:35):
I sometimes kind of fly to one side. And if
you can imagine the pendulum swinging far to one side
in which I'm really discouraged. You hear about just the
way we've trashed these resources or wildlife populations in the past,
where you see how many different things are struggling right now,
how many species are in decline, how many wild places

(22:55):
we're losing, how many you know, if there's an endless
list of depressing statistics, if you want to find the
stuff when it comes to just the decline in wildlife
abundance and so many other things. So if you go
down that path, it can become very discouraging. And I
found myself swinging that way in the pendulum sometimes on
the flip side. Though, as you study this history and

(23:18):
as you study what people are doing today, you also
though come across so many stories of inspiring individuals or
projects or efforts in which we have saved species or
saved places, or you know, people have done heroic things
to protect our wildlife resources, or incredible new studies being done,
or projects that are going to help this critter or

(23:39):
that critter, or this place or this water source. There's
so many examples of people doing good work and good progress,
and so I also find myself very inspired. You know,
if you look, if you look back, you know, to
some of the things you're talking about, you know, you
late eighteenth or eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds, we basically
wiped everything out almost but the last we got our

(24:01):
act together and a handful of you know, motivated people
that really cared about this stuff stepped up and changed
the way we think about these things and we saved them.
So in some ways, that's very inspiring that our predecessors,
you know, figure this out and got us back to
the point that we are now, which is pretty darn
good compared to one hundred some years ago. So when

(24:22):
you consider that, it can be very encouraging. Those are
the two worlds I find myself like flipping between all
the time. These days. Does any of that resonate with you?
Where have you found yourself?

Speaker 3 (24:35):
So, man, I actually had this conversation probably with more
people than wanted to hear me talk about it, just
like buddies at home. But when I was in the
midst of researching some of this stuff, I even said,
I think I was talking about Buddy Jordan, But I said, man,
I have spent I don't know how much time, you know,

(24:58):
driving down the road or whatever, just burning when time.
And I'm sitting there thinking like, should I be mad
about this because you look at it, I mean like it,
because you know it's one of those things hindsight twenty twenty, right,
and if you look at it like like sure and
through this perspective, you're like, yeah, we should be thankful
for what was saved. But man, those guys screwed up

(25:18):
a whole lot.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
And then it dawned on me one day, I was like,
what in the world is me deciding to be mad
about that? What positive result is that gonna yield? Like nothing, none, whatsoever.
Now it's worth looking at that and making note of
what went wrong, so you know, we make sure to
not do the same thing. But again, and especially like learning.

(25:43):
That's so literally all of it virtually came from a
lack of understanding. And so yeah, that that resonates with
me a lot, man, because, like, for instance, one of
the episodes I have coming up is conservation history of
black bears here in Mississippi. A lot of these, a

(26:04):
lot of these early episodes are stuff that's just like
really close to home with me. We had, like, black
bears are native animal here. They were almost wiped out,
but they were never fully wiped out. They were never
functionally extinct here in Mississippi. At one point, I think
the lowest number was like twelve, so bad low. Yeah,
the past few years they've made and they've made a
natural expansion. They've they've been protected. You can't shoot them obviously,

(26:28):
but they're they're not a hunting season or anything, and
they've just been slowly naturally expanding. And they're a very
controversial animal now because if you if you go to
the root of it, the reason they're controversial people don't
understand them. That's been there's been enough generations occur where
we don't have bears that people don't understand them and

(26:51):
they don't know how to live with them, and so again,
if I were to approach that, and so in the
Black Bear program, the head biologists of of that program
is a very good friend of mine. I've actually it's
been awesome. I've been able to go and do a
lot of bear projects with them and have my hands
on lave bears, which is incredible. That looks good walking

(27:12):
through him with that stuff, and like just seeing just
like the from the eye level, from the ground level,
like just the level of controversy and the questions and stuff.
And it's like if you go if you went into
that with that angry mentality, you know, because there are
some people that are like, we should exterminate these things
while we have the chance. And if you go into
that mad, you're not gonna get anywhere. But if you

(27:32):
go into that with like a no, no, no, man, you
don't understand, let me let me explain this animal to you.
Let me like you know, cause again we I've researched this.
If you can go back from records of of Mississippi
in the eighteen hundred and nineteen hundreds, and bear was
a more highly regarded meat animal than a white tail was.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
It's not fun, you know.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
And so that's the way to approach it, or the
way that I've decided to approach it, is like you
just you have to approach it that way or you're
just gonna yield more bad results, like explain, you know,
try to understand the animal and the habitat and and
focus more on the people in the in our world
that you know you talked about that have done heroic

(28:14):
things to save wildlife.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
What's your sense? I had kind of a similar conversation
to this, or at least around like a broadly similar
topic with a guy named Dan Flores. You know Dan.
He's he's also got a podcast for us, He's written
to rendus book on a similar topic, and and so
I was speaking with him about this same topic. And

(28:37):
he has this unbelievable deep knowledge of the long, deep
history of you know, our continent and what's gone on
with wildlife. But I think when you when you talk
to someone like that, they have you know, he has
seen this through the context of of a different generation
than you and I, right, And I guess I'm just

(29:00):
as someone who you know, similar age to me, hangs
out with a similar circle. What's your read on like us?
Like what we're on? Like our generation? And our understanding
of this stuff and and where we are at with
this because I think you know someone who's who's I

(29:20):
guess I don't know what I'm trying to say here, like,
but but maybe you're getting the general thing I'm flinging
at you. Really you talked about how like understanding this
stuff matters, and how shifting our our perspective on these
issues and also maybe shifting from being just like a
consumer to being more of like a advocate or at least,

(29:41):
you know, being able to you know, work with these things.
I guess that's something I'm feeling a little bit more
with Like our generation is like it's not as common
now for people to just be like I just want
to shoot stuff. It's it's I think it's becoming a
little more common like yes I like to hunt, or
yes I like to fish. And with that comes you
know a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

(30:02):
Is that something that you are seeing too or is
there anything else that you're kind of sensing when it
comes to you know, this next generation of hunters and
anglers and hopefully conservationists. I'm horrible asking questions today, Like sorry,
that was a real roundabout way of getting to something to.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
You, I think I smell what you're stepping in. So
I think looking at yeah, like kind of the our
demographic right that particular age range or whatever. And you
could go younger too. If I were to go with

(30:38):
the negative, first I'll go negative, then I'll go positive.
The negative I would say, is we live in such
a dense information era that sometimes that can yield two
not so good results. One, I think it can be
taken for granted. Two Well, and let me I mean

(31:00):
by it can be taken for granted, is I think
you like no one wants to go to find some
of these records I've been telling you about a stuff
that was going on in Mississippi in the eighteen hundreds. I
had to I had to do more than type it
into Google and see what popped up on the AI results. Yeah,
you know what I mean. Like it's it's it's becoming

(31:23):
like information is so easy that it's like why would
I take another step? You know, I got I got
my quick answer right there. That's problem number one. Problem
number two is like it's real easy to get the
wrong information. Like there's a lot of like you could
go and get. You can get caught in your own

(31:44):
echo chamber if you want to, like, you can google
until you find the answer you want to find, you
know what I mean. But on the positive side of that, well, man,
I remember talking to Will Primos and Brad Ferris about
it about like content in like this newer in like
this current time, and they were like, man, back in

(32:06):
the time where they were making VHS is premost truth
about hunting VHS is They're like, if we even tried
to put in a segment about the NWTF and Turkey research,
like no one wanted to watch it. They were like,
it would be clear that like people didn't really care
about watching this kind of stuff. Whereas now, like I'm

(32:27):
sure you've heard it too. When I go if I
interview biologists about something, some of them will go on
and on. They're like, people just it's it's so encouraging
people care to know about this now and that like that,
Like I said, I went negative first. I think the
positives heavily outweigh the negatives, because it is, dude, this
podcast that I'm doing, you know, where we were looking

(32:49):
at this stuff. If if what you're asking about, if
that wasn't true, I don't think this podcast would ever
even been entertained to be an idea, because it would
be like, why would they care?

Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, good point, you know what I mean. It's interesting.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
So I think I think, yeah, I think people have
a more well let's go, not not to derail the conversation,
but like the current public lands issue, Thank god, I
haven't heard anybody say, man, we just can't get hunters
to call about this stuff, you know what I mean.
Everyone's been like this is great. Everyone's come together and

(33:25):
they're calling an email and so so yeah, I think
I think there is more of a sense of wanting
to understand and caring about the resource, and that's that
can only yield good things.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
So, you know, as far as you've gone so far
into this world, you know, you mentioned earlier that you
said that, you know, one of the things that stood
out is maybe like a consistent thing was the fact
that you know, you can't fight for or advocate what
you don't understand. But what about like a a lesson

(33:57):
or a takeaway or like an action item Like I mean,
you've looked at, you know, what happened to Buffalo, you
looked at what's been going on with Black Bears, you've
looked at you know, quail, You've looked at deer, and
what's going on in Mississippi a little bit. Is there
anything as far as like moving forward that we as
hunters and anglers can be thinking about or trying to

(34:18):
do a better job of or we're digging into more
if we want to make sure that things are trending
up rather than down. You've got to study a handful
of these stories now, and I'm just curious if there's
any like action or priorities that we as individuals can
be keeping in mind so far.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
Yeah, yeah, So like the there's actually, like the Quail
was a topic that I did, Like I said, this
other episode came out, but I did two episodes on it,
like the next one, and it's kind of it's you know,
centric on Quail, but it's focused on kind of what
you're talking about. It's like, all right, I understand that
we used to have a lot of Quail, and I
can wrap my head around why they were diminished so much.

(34:58):
But episode two is like what's the future of them?
Like what can we do? And one of the biggest
things is like just taking some ownership, you know, like
like understanding that that is a resource that has to
be managed. And that sounds cliche, but like in that
in that other episode where it's focused on the future

(35:20):
of quail, like I interviewed some people that they're fam
like one of the guys, man, he's such fun, he's
such a fun guy to talk to. He's in his
eighties now and he had quail like it's it's this
land has been in his family since he was a kid,
and he watched the quail get diminished and it just
broke his heart because you know, he cared about quail

(35:42):
hunting like you care about Whittahun and that dude made
it his personal mission to establish quail back on his place. Now,
not to he never had any restocked or anything like that.
It was just he got with some biologists, he got
with some people that knew what they were doing, and
they were like, we've got to fix this place. And
they did all the habitat work and continue to the

(36:04):
habitat work. And it's a bit of a it's it's
a it's an anomaly of a story in some ways
because now he's done so well with it and spread
the progress out between his neighbors and got them all
with the same program, because you know, who would have
thought when he starts doing all this awesome habitat work
for quill he started how you know, guess what else
went up? His turkey quality is deer quality? Did you

(36:26):
should see like some of that place, like with the
with the wildflowers on it and just like it looks
like something out of a time machine. But uh yeah,
just taking ownership, man, like, not being passive about it
and not going, well, that's what we've got a department
of wildlife for, you know, that's what the that's what

(36:47):
the biologists do again. The wildlife thrive when and I
don't mean this arrogantly, it's just like history shows it
in the in the world that we live in today.
Why would I thrive when humans want them to thrive?
And that I mean it's pretty much as simple as that,

(37:08):
and there's so much proof there. But like so yeah,
like as far as going forward, it's taken ownership and
you're like, don't sit there and go man, I wish
the turkey population in whatever state you live in was
was doing better. Okay, what can you do about it? Like,
what can you do as as an individual? You know

(37:29):
what I mean?

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, it's such a great point, and it's and we
we have a huge opportunity in that way. And I've
talked about this on so many episodes in the last
couple of years, but you know, hunters manage nearly four
hundred million acres of land across the nation. That's almost
as big as our entire federal public land estates. So

(37:51):
when you look at the swath of land that we
have influence over, it's real. I mean, so yeah, we
don't need to wait for anybody. We can tackle a
lot of the stuff ourselves. I mean, that's such a
huge thing, such a huge thing. So I love that
that's something that the Ears are going to be exploring
in that Quail episode. And it's so funny, like so

(38:13):
many of us, at least you know, in my circles,
we come to this first through white tails, right, because
so many of us love white tail deer. That's you know,
that's America's critter. They're everywhere, and you might get a
lease or own some land or have access to something.
And through that, though, you then have this opportunity to
then help all these other critters that aren't doing as well.

(38:33):
And and like you mentioned, you do some good stuff
for quail or for grouse or for pollinators or whatever.
It is almost always it's gonna be great for your
deer too, So you're gonna get win wins across the board.
It just takes a little bit extra time just to
kind of think through what you're doing. But the super
rewarding to see that kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah, man, And we're actually like there's one it's not
done yet. I haven't even made the first interview, but
there's there's a couple episodes that I'm lying I'm working
online and up the interviews for. But they're going to
highlight people that have done just that. Like there's like

(39:16):
I said, I probably shouldn't say too much about it yet,
but like one of them is a landowner that the
land has been in their family for it literally hundreds
of years, and their farm, their property is again I
keep saying the word like a time machine or a
time capsule, because it is. But do they have done

(39:38):
so much work on it and and it and it
is work these days to maintain at the level they
have to to where it's just man, just the attention
they've paid, like the attention they have paid to native
habitat and consistent prescribe fire, and just I could go
on and on and on, but do the ripple effect

(40:00):
that places like that have not from just like people
coming out there and seeing their place, and so there's
we'll start spending walkin do on my place, the ripple
effect on how they're affecting their neighboring properties in a
positive way. And to your point, like the further you
go east, the further public land there is, right, Mississippi's

(40:20):
like ninety four percent private or something like that, And
so much of our Department of Wildlife Management strategy is
the name towards like well, I'll give you an example
that I think it was last spring. They had a
game Bird Weekend and what they did it was a
open to the public. It didn't matter if you owned
ten acres or ten thousand acres. It was there was

(40:41):
a I think it was like thirty bucks and you
got fed, breakfast and launch for two days. You had
you had seminars where you could do Q and A
with different biologists, habitat managers. There was prescribe burning, there
was native plants, there was trees, there was everything imagine.
And then we went out and did a prescribed fire.

(41:03):
We did some hands on type stuff and it was
completely it was completely geared towards like the dude who
owns thirty five acres and is wanting to know, well,
what in the world can I do? You know? And
and and that's the way like that, that's the way forward.
You know.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah, that's so cool. Uh so so with uh with
white tails? You know, perfect segue here with white tails
on the mind, what you know, other than chasing around
all these new podcast stories and burning the burning the
tires off your truck traveling these places, what's your white
tail world look like? Uh? This summer? Do you have

(41:40):
time to do much prep yet? Or or is all
this keeping you out of the white tail woods.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
A little bit? It's definitely definitely out of it a
little bit. Uh. The other part of it is is
like it's so miserably hot right now. If you wanted
to do anything, I will say, and I'm not you
unique in this way. I find myself doing some white
tail scouting while I'm out turkey hunting, and literally the

(42:08):
last day of turkey season, the last day of turkey
season down here is May first, and I always hunt
May the first because once the last day of Turkey
season two. It's the day my grandmother passed away a
few years ago, and so I always I just I
go out on that day. It doesn't matter what the
weather is, doesn't matter, I just go. And I went
to a place on public around here that I had

(42:29):
not been to in a long time. And I was
walking in there. It was late in the morning. I
was just kind of cruising and anyway, there was a
place and this is all in public. Some of the
timber had been logged, and had been logged for a
little while. So there was this giant thicket and to
see you have this big thicket right here, and I'm

(42:50):
walking the edge of this thicket and I'm like, man,
I'm already thinking. I'm like, man, I wonder the de
You're gonna be bedding nothing here now, you know. And
walk a little bit further, a little bit further, and
there's like and I'm you know, like I said, I
hadn't been to this spot in a while, but I'd
hunted this area of this forest for quite a while.
And I was far enough back in there that like
I already knew. I was like, man, not a whole

(43:11):
lot of folks would would come back in here and
I come up and there's like there's like four big
white oak trees like thirty yards off of this thicket.
And I was like, yep, marking that before before I
left that spot, Like I was like, I'm gonna have
a camera and here the closer we get, the seasoned,
and I already found a tree that I could get

(43:31):
in and like it. I mean, man, early October, when
I get a when I if I can get a
north or an east wind, that's where I'm gonna be.
That's where i'd me.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
So is summer scouting not as much of a thing
down by you because of the miserable, humid, hot weather,
or do you guys folks like still get out like
velvet scouting? Is that a thing down by you? Like
by me? You know it come July a lot of
evenings you're out sitting on the edge of a beanfield glassing,
you know, late July into August. Is that just a

(44:07):
crazy thing to do by you because.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
Of the weather, not not because of the weather. If
you live in the Mississippi Delta, you're probably doing some
of that just because there's not as much like just
not near as much row crop like the our roa
crop down here and in the other parts of the
state is is La Blay pine trees. Honestly, like there's

(44:30):
there's just not a whole lot of like places where
you could go and just like glass deer and so
the closer it gets, like, I know some folks in
the Delta that they'll spend some time doing some velvet
scouting because that out there, you you actually would, it'd
be worth your time to do it. But like around
here central like I would, I don't do much velvet

(44:53):
stuff but r on cameras for sure, but not not
a whole lot of velvet stuff unless should go down there.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
Okay, So what's the summer camera program in your neck
of the woods?

Speaker 3 (45:17):
H dude, I'm like, what do most now? I don't
do it. I don't. Baiting is legal down here. That's
about ninety five percent of what the camera running consists of.
And that's that's just a fact. Like I said, it's
it's legal. I I have done it before, I make

(45:40):
no bones about it now. I'm not just not a
big fan of it for a for a whole swath reasons,
but uh, that's what that's the way most of it
has done these days, and if not that, it's usually
like a mineral rock or something like that. If I
was to go run some cameras, I probably would. Well, man,

(46:02):
I normally don't even start touching them until you know,
late September.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
So if you were going to try to get some
summer pictures without bait, is there anyone who's doing it
in a way where you can get some decent pictures
despite not having that big attracting because that, like you know,
I remember early. I mean, it's always a challenge to
get pictures in the summer without the easy option of
a trophy rock or bait or something. Yeah, it's a

(46:32):
little bit easier if you've got row crops. It's gotta
be really tough without any of those options.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
Yeah, dude, man, I'm just being honestly. I don't even
know if I've ever even tried to be to be
totally honest. And now, I mean, that's that's interesting because
now my wheels are spinning them. If someone was like,
you must try to get some good pictures, I'm like,
what would I do? But I could figure something out,
but I don't know. Yeah, I've never I don't think
i've ever really done it, and it's always like an yeah,

(47:00):
like a trophy rock or something like that.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Yeah, man, those are deadly effective in the summer, that's
for sure. I Mean I'm not a baiting guy myself,
but I you know, I did like it back in
the day when I could put a trophy rock out
there over a camera in the summer and you certainly
pictures rolled in.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
Can't argue with that, dude. Well, like when I was
when I was growing up, like if you heard of
somebody at home getting caught hunting over corn or something,
it was like they were like a social pariah. It
was like and you'd be like, wow, we do that. Well,
now like it's it's completely legal. So and right when

(47:40):
it was legalized, it was like are you kidding me?
Why wouldn't we do this? And so, you know, I
mean I used it for a while and then I
just kind of was like, eh, like I said, whole
list of reasons, but personally I don't care to do
it anymore. I don't knock anyone that does. I just
don't have you phoned down by.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
You know, in places like that where there's so much
of it, are the guys who are like were guys
and girls who are killing like the big Bucks mature bucks.
Are they even doing that on bait or are they
having to kind of play off of it and shift
it around and or is other people's baiting impacting people's
ability to do that too?

Speaker 3 (48:19):
But well yes, so the answer to the second one
first is other people's baiting impacting people one hundred percent,
like one hundred percent and so and like it's it's
a very man it's such a nuanced and complex issue.
I have friends, several friends who don't really care to bait.

(48:39):
They just don't. And they have places that they put
a lot of time into, you know, working on the
habitat trail, like like really trying to make the place better.
And they and this is a like this is anecdotal,
but this happens a lot. Like I'm thinking of one
particular friend had a place who's working on and as

(49:02):
a friend and like his a neighboring property that's like
forty acres. Nothing is done on that forty acres in
terms of habitat, but they put a corn feeder out
there and let it spind. And now like that dude's
you know, pulling deer off, like directly benefiting from his
habitat and deer, I mean, because they're gonna go to

(49:23):
I mean, they're gonna go to that corn feeder man,
they just are. And so he was like in this
in this position, just like conflicted. He was like, I
don't know what to do. I don't want to bait,
but like the deer just getting suctioned off of my property,
you know. So I say, I refer to bating a
lot of times as this self perpetuating thing, because that's

(49:46):
the mentality like, well, if I had all my neighbor's
going to and then I'm not going to have any deer.
And to some degree that's true. Unfortunately, the upside of it,
like I said that if there is a positive of it,
like it there are a lot of people, let enjoy
doing it to each their own, but there are like

(50:08):
people are killing some really big deer doing it like
that's I can't argue with that fact at all, Like
people are killing some really big deer that way.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
So one thing with like with the baiting programs and
or you know, cameras, there's always this question of you know,
are you educating deer? Like these are tools that supposed
we can help you, but Also if you're in there
messing around with things, or you've got sell cameras doing
their thing, there's always done these questions about are you

(50:37):
also doing more harm than good with this human influence,
whether that's you know, messing around with cameras or messing
around out your feet or whatever it is. I gotta
believe you've seen a bunch of different instances with this,
whether it be on your own stuff or you know,
rolling around with the premost crew. I mean, you've seen
a lot. Where's your head at on on kind of

(50:57):
that balance because I'm always trying to balance this, especially
with me for the cameras, it is the big one.
But but what have you seen over the years.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Well, it's it's a similar thing, like to your point,
like with with cameras, right, It's like before the cellular
trail camera, if you wanted to run a trail camera,
you had to walk out there, you had to track
all the way up through there, leave your scent all
over the place. You know, you could go through all
the all the precautions you wanted to, you're still leaving
some sort of scent. You just are, you know, And

(51:25):
then cellular trailcap cameras happened, and that that was that
was very I mean that was a significant change because
that's just like a huge portion of human influence and
pressure on the woods just eliminated. So it was the
same same thing, you know, like when people figured out
feeders that you could put on a timer and set

(51:45):
to spend a certain amount of days. Because like in Mississippi,
like I said, it's legal, but you can't just go
and dump it on the ground. It has to be
like the laws, like it has to be in a
covered trough or a like a spin cast type feeder.
And I mean I've seen it several times. I got
buddies that deal with it. And it's not like you
can't you can't like bet on it. But there are

(52:08):
certain mature deer that they they figure that out man
like and and I will like some people will tell you,
they'll like, man, you want to make a buck go nocturnal,
start feeding them like they they they fit. Now, like
I said, that is not one hundred percent whatsoever. But
some of those five six year old bucks like yeah,

(52:28):
like they'll come to your bait at nine o'clock at night.
And so that that definitely does happen. And some of
the folks that that are killing them, now, uh what
they've what I the most probably popular tactic is, uh,
it's some sort of bay. Typically, like even if it

(52:51):
isn't a trial feeder, they will they will put a
like just a huge amount of feed where they don't
have to go back there for a while, and then
they pop a cellular trail camera up and so it's
basically the same premise, like the food's there, but there's
not a human going in and out of there, and
they got that cellular trail camera popping and the set.

(53:13):
Some of them, I know some guys that are like
the second daylights one time he's in there, you know
he's in there hunting them, or some some of them
like I got to see him daylight twice before I
risk putting some pressure in there. But that that's typically
how it goes. There's there's still a like a very
important element of like limiting human interaction or human pressure
on the woods.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
So like, how the heck are you killing deer if
you don't have two hundred pounds of corn out there?
And I sell cam telling you when they show up
for the first.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
Time, well, well let me let me, let me give
a like an honest representation on myself, Like I don't
try to present myself as some awesome deer killer one
thing that because honestly, man, and this is like I have.
Let me let me be clear, I have. I have
something against baiting. I don't care for it. Trail cameras.

(54:04):
Have nothing against trail cameras, but I rarely use them anymore.
And I'll be completely honest with you why in recent years,
because when I was doing stuff with Primos, we did
so much with product development. It was just like non
stop trail camera stuff to where like I remember, like
I never wanted to be One time we were going

(54:27):
to hunt somewhere and I was like, had this complete
notion of we're wasting our time. And the reason I
felt that way is because the way the trail cameras
are running. And it hit me. I was like, man,
there's no way to be, you know. And so the
past couple of years, I either like on Public, like
where I was telling you about where I found those
white up trees, I'm gonna put a trail camera there

(54:51):
just because I'm curious what's coming in there. But the
past few years, like between Public and a place that
me and my buddy have access to We have access
to about twelve under acre track, which is nice one
because it's twelve hundred acres of course, right, but two
with a with a property that big, you actually can
you can't have some deer that that that property is

(55:14):
big enough, you can have some deer and have them
not be influenced by you know, a feed that's going
on on the perimeters, right. Uh. And so that's what
that's what we've been doing, is like just going in
there and men and just just go honestly, man, just
going in there and hunting, you know, just to go

(55:34):
on like old school and it man, like going there,
finding sign and just trying it out, seeing what happens
and just putting it together. And like sometimes it works,
sometimes it doesn't. But I've I've really enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
But yeah, what's like, uh, I mean, kind of going
back to one of the things I just said there ago,
you've been able to have this wide exposure I think
to a lot of different ways of doing stuff, right,
I gotta believe with with the crew you've rolled with
and getting to hang out with folks like will or

(56:10):
Brad and you know, so many others you've learned from
some of the best, no doubt, right, Yeah, what What's
what have been those major things you've taken from those
folks you've learned from, like the major you know, like
if there was like a stone tablet and will roll

(56:31):
down like the five most important things to be a
successful deer hunter where or something like that, or Brad
or whoever it was, do a handful of things stand
out that you've been able to take from these legends
over the years that you're still putting into play now
yourself when you're doing it on your own.

Speaker 3 (56:46):
Mm hm. Honestly, it would be if especially if I'm
just talking about like deer hunt. Uh one thing I
learned it, and I learned it in like fairly early,
like in the first three years of being there, like
because I remember the first year I can waiting for
me to like catch them doing this like huge thing
and me go, oh, that's the thing that makes them

(57:08):
so good at this, you know, and there honestly, there wasn't.
There wasn't some like huge thing that they were doing
differently and like this. If this sounds cliche, I forgive me,
but it's like it's true, and I can give some
examples they weren't doing the like a lot of the
big things that they were doing were big things that
everybody else were doing. Like, of course you hunt the wind.

(57:30):
Of course you take the at you know, the proper
amount of time to make sure your gear is good
to go, and you practice with your boat. Of course,
you know, you you when the you know, you watch
for cold fronts, you know, like the obvious stuff. The
things that they did were like this, like this culmination
of small things that other people might not do. Like

(57:55):
you probably have buddies like this too. I've been guilty
of it before. When they're a pro coach in a
morning or an afternoon hunt, the mindset is like what
is the latest I can possibly sleep and get you know,
getting up the tree as quick as you can and
where it's like them, it's like I want an hour

(58:17):
of a grace period, Like I don't want there to
be a single chance that I'm late, right what talking about?
Like I mean everyone knows, like some people would say,
like routes to a stand is a big thing, dude.
Some of the ways when I because I filmed Brad

(58:38):
a lot, especially in the early years, like I hunted
idea hunting with Brad more than anybody else. I would
get aggravated at that, dude sometimes for some of the
crazy out of the like just out of the way
like routes we would take to get to a tree stand.
But like, there is no way that was going to

(59:00):
risk that a deer was gonna smell us getting in there. Like,
there was never ever a lazy approach to a stamp
like it. It did not happen. Dude, everything Brad and
Will they both did this. Man, if there was a
te screw like like that you that you're gonna put
in the tree to hang your backpack on, that tea

(59:23):
screw is going to have electrical tape wrapped all the
way around it. There was not anything that was going
to make a dan, not one like I mean, just
like all this small minute stuff that just culminated and
just made it to where like they're like, they made
it to where it was as seamless as possible.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Yeah, man, that's you can't hear that enough. I mean
I've heard different versions of that from so many people
that it's it's almost like the golden rule of deer hunting.
Now it's there's no there's no silver bullet. There's no
easy answer. There's no like, oh, this is the secret,
except for do all the little things. It's like there's

(01:00:07):
no big thing because all of the little things, added up,
layer after la after layer, are what lead to success
in the end. That's just so true, dude.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Even I've got I've got another one. Like I remember
we were hunting somewhere. There was this, there was this
This was really early despite in the first, first or
second follows with him, and uh, there was this big
a point that we were after. And he was cool man.
He had like matching kickers on G two. I mean,
just a cool fuck real had had a lot of masks,

(01:00:37):
dark horned. He was just cool. He was really cool.
And we had gone through like all this rigmarole trying
to get this deer in front of us, and finally
Brad got this notion. There was this tree. I mean,
I remember, I remember, It's like it was yesterday. We'd
been hunting, we'd had a double lock on set in

(01:01:00):
this honey locust tree is an early season like early
like super awesome food source in the early season. And uh,
we just weren't like even though we you know, we
thought the wind was right we thought our approach was right.
But after I think we went in there like two
three times, we had some doze and stuff come in,
but we never saw that buck. And Brad was like,

(01:01:21):
something's not right, like he's catching us coming in there something,
and he kept he decides like walking out one day,
he's like, we're moving sets. We're going to that tree
and there was this wonky tree like it took us
forever to get the stand in there. Uh And it
worked like that, Like as much as careful as we
were as we were trying to take to get in there,

(01:01:42):
there must have been something with the route that we
were taking, because the first time we moved that set,
we ended up shooting that deer. But the point that
I was making is, you know, like we're sitting in
this double set and does started coming through early filtering through,
heading towards that honeylocust tree. We're I mean, we're not
fifty yards from where our first set was Game of Inches, right,

(01:02:02):
and where the way we had the two lock on set,
like I always had binos on even though I was
running the camera and me and Brad just chilling. These
does coming through, and there was one like three year
old buck, and I'm just I'm just looking at the buck.
And I pick up my byos, look at him, sit
there and film war. And I go to grab my
binos again and I feel Brad's hand just stop me.

(01:02:23):
And I'm like what and he and he said, what
are you doing? I said, looking at that buck? He
goes you already looked at him, and I was like,
what do you mean? He was like, why would you
risk the movement that you ain't got a risk? Fair enough? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Interesting the stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Man Like if he Brad like, he's not going to
be constantly doing this number with his binos, He's going
to look as much as he needs to, and then
he's conserving movement.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
M little things. The man, man, that's the true. What
about what about like unique to the South? I mean,
you guys and I'll get to go up and do
some stuff from the Midwest, but then you've also obviously
had this Southern experience being down there yourselves. And this
is a place that I've always fallen short with with

(01:03:10):
wired hunt over the years. As being a northern guy myself,
it's so easy to ignore or just be ignorant of
the unique aspects of hunting down south. You know, having
gotten to experience a little bit of all of it yourself,
what has stood out to you is like, man, these
are the big things that are different about hunting in
the South, or ways you need to approach it differently
than you know, what you see everybody doing on TV

(01:03:32):
in the Midwest, or you know just how folks do
it in Michigan or Iowa or Illinois.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
Dude, I'd say one of the biggest things is a
lot a lot of the other places that we would
go for widetail when we traveled, even if it was
like not a crazy terrain laden place like Wisconsin can
be your Iowa or something like that. I it's crazy,
and it's one of I grew up hunting this fla

(01:04:00):
country down here, so I didn't know much different than it.
But I remember the first time that I went to
Iowa and I hear someone say a pinch point, and
I look at this pinch point, I'm like, no kidding,
you know. And so one of the bigger obstacles or
like huge things that you would have to overcome at
home without bait obviously, like bait can be the great equalassar,

(01:04:24):
but but is it's learning like how to pattern deer
movement in that flat country. And there's like, man, one
of it's like vegetation, like hunting privot lines is a
big thing down here. Another thing and it's gonna sound
like I'm contradicting myself, but I'll elaborate, is learning to

(01:04:47):
look at a topographic map, because one thing that I
learned is I can go to a place. I'm thinking
of a place right now, a place that we hunted
on the Big Black River, especially for bottoms, like of
course the river bottoms pretty flat, you know. Man, You
pull up like a topo map like on X or something,

(01:05:09):
and the slightest topographic change, and I mean so slight
that like some of that river bottom stuff. You pull
it up and you turn topo on, and you're like,
there's still not any lines here, There is no there
is no topo. If you see that line, if you
see a single line, like I will go and scout
along that one topographic change, because those that wildlife knows

(01:05:31):
it's there, like and I and you will find even
when you're standing there, you're like, this all still looks
the same, Like this doesn't look hardly anything different from
from here or there. But it'll be just slight enough
that the vegetation will be different that deer will be
using it for travel that you will find like you'll
find the most subtle saddle and there will be a

(01:05:54):
trail through there. But that's that is huge down at home,
learning how to determine travel in that flat country, I
think I would say that to me, I'd say that's
probably the biggest.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
Yeah, And I don't know what it's like exactly where
you hunt. But one thing that I've seen and heard,
like when I went and did a project down Mississippi
last summer the summer before was down there in the
is it the DeSoto National Force? Is that right? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
You were like down around like Leaf River or something,
weren't you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
Yeah, that sounds right. I think that rings well. Yeah,
being in some of that country, you can just see
like these vast tracts of timber, you know, I mean
there's not the obvious there's not the obvious vegetation pinch
points or like obvious bedding, obvious feeding, obvious travel from
a to b like you have in row crop country.

(01:06:45):
And I know that's you know, all these pines stands
through Georgia or Mississippi or Arkansas or Alabama, Like I
know that's a consistent thing. I've hunting down in southern
part of Alabama, same thing. Like that is a real deal.
Trying to trying to dice big country like that is
not easy.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
No, it's not. And it's dude, it'll drive you crazy.
Like even the guys that I know that are like,
there's I got somebody's down here, man, Like I said,
I'm as and I'm just being honest, Like as a
deer hunter, I can hold my water. But I got
buddies that like I'm like, dude, that's a that's a
good deer hunter. And even those guys, they'll drive themselves insane,

(01:07:25):
especially on a new property, like like trying to figure
out because the other thing is like, well I said,
they will be using those subtle topo changes. It's not
like like I remember I remember one of the first
times I filmed in the Midwest. I think I saw
every deer that inhabited those woods come down this one ridge,
you know, whereas like these like you don't know what

(01:07:46):
they're gonna do. You know, like you find a trail,
like yeah, that buck's gonna be using it, but you
don't know if he's using it, then you know, you know,
it's just it's it's uh, it's you. You drive yourself
insane trying to trying to pull a pattern on them.
Food sources are huge, huge, Like I said, that's why
when I found those white oak trees I was talking

(01:08:06):
about earlier, I was like, oh, you know, when you
find something like that next to a big thicket, like,
that's about as good as an indicator as you can get.
Lord Willing, we have a good acre and craft this year. Yeah,
but like stuff like that, it's good to kiyo, but yeah,
it's tough, man, It's tough.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Do you have the itch yet? Like every year, right
around July ish is when I really start getting the
white tail. It's like I'm thinking about it throughout the
year for all sorts of different reasons in different parts
of the year, but I don't start getting like weird
until usually July, and that's I'm like, oh, man, I
gotta start watching my white tail YouTube videos or pull

(01:08:45):
out this North American white tail and start annoying my
wife with stuff like that. Has that started for you
yet or if not, when does that peak?

Speaker 3 (01:08:54):
Typically about I've actually been like, and this is now
I've shot my bow three times, like like three different
days going out and shoot shooting my boat shout like
three times over the past week and a half. And
I some folks would be like, what are you doing?
You should be shooting it more probably, but I'm saying
that is in like normally I don't. I'm not shooting

(01:09:14):
it all this time now, I'm not like July. August
is when I'm typically like out there every day shooting.
But I'm a little like, I'm kind of surprised myself
that I'm shooting this early.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
But uh.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
Yeah, I'd say typically probably around the same time frame,
especially about August, you know, like you really start thinking
about it and you've been like Turkey season is far
enough away, and by the time you hit August, you've
gone about as long as you can stand without being
able to something.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
You know, for me, and I know this isn't possible
down your neck of the woods as much, but for me,
that first time when you see a buck in a
field like a bean field or alfalfa fielders something, you're like, oh,
that's a nice buck, Like the first time they've grown
enough where you're like ooh, and you're seeing those like orange,
beautiful shiny coats out there in a green field that

(01:10:10):
just like gets my juices flowing. And it's usually, uh,
it's usually just downhill from there, so we're getting really close.

Speaker 3 (01:10:16):
We're getting close, dud, dude, And this is this may
sound goofy to you, but like I get when I think,
cause like I mean, I may look up and shoot
a good buck in October. Typically typically if I'm gonna
kill a good buck, it's normally later in the year December, January,
rut stuff like heavily after the like post rut keno
and food shorts type stuff. When I get when I'm

(01:10:38):
getting jazzed up about October early botseason, I'm thinking about
shooting dose like I which again we have a lot
of deer down here, but I love shooting does with
my bow. And that I mean, And like I said,
some folks are like the dough you know. But uh,

(01:10:59):
like even when I when I'm talking about that white
oak spot, like of course I would love for a
you know, a good buck to walk into there. But
when I'm thinking about going in there and hunting it,
I'm thinking about, oh, there's gonna be some does come
into here that I can pop.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
I love it. Yeah, I feel like I'm getting more
of that way every year, more and more. There's there's
something about there's something. I don't know if this is
the same for you, But when I flip the switch
from like I'm in buck mode to instead like dope Patrol,
when I flip that switch, it just it's just a
totally different hunt, and it's obviously a more target rich environment,

(01:11:32):
and I don't know, it's just so much fun. It's
it's maybe less pressure, but more opportunity coming your way. Likely.
I love that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
So I'm always I'm on Dope Patrol a whole lot
more than I'm on Buck Patrol.

Speaker 2 (01:11:44):
Yeah, I'm I'm following. I'm following that path more these
days myself too. Well, Like, give me this before we
wrap it up. Give me the quick rundown for folks
on where to find the new podcast when episodes are
coming out, and if there's anything else that you can
or want to preview for people other than what we've

(01:12:06):
discussed so far.

Speaker 3 (01:12:08):
Yeah. Yeah, so Backwoods University. It comes out every other week.
But I told one person bi weekly and they're like
twice a week. I'm like, no, that is Codunystic. Yeah,
so every other week. So we had one come out
yesterday or Monday, June twenty third, and so the next

(01:12:30):
one will come out in two weeks. But it comes
out on Mondays every every other Monday on the Bear
Grease feed. Clay was talking about it the other day.
It's like our feed's getting so complicated, it's getting lengthy
to start to explain it because you got to go
Backwoods University on the Mediator podcast Network.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
On the Bear Speak Yeah, it is getting a little wordy,
that's true. Well man, I'm I'm really excited about it.
I think you're after a great start. I appreciate the
the issues and topics and stories that you're sharing with people.
It's so fascinating, it's so important. So keep it up, man,
and thanks thanks for taking this time to chat dear

(01:13:11):
and wildlife and all the good stuff in between.

Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
Absolutely, man, thanks for having me on. I always enjoy
chatting with you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
It's great, great stuff, all right, and that's going to
do it. Thank you for joining me. Hopefully you enjoyed
my chat with Lake and until next time, stay wired.
Done