Ep. 933: What Would Ted Zangerle Do?

This week on the show I’m running Ted Zangerle, of The Hunting Public, through our What Would You Do gauntlet, giving us insight into exactly how he'd handle some of the most challenging deer hunting scenarios I could throw at him.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
the White Tail Woods, presented by first Light, creating proven
versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light,
Go Farther, stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon,
Welcome to the Wired.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
To Hunt podcast. This week in the show we are
starting are what would You Do? Series again, in which
we walk a hunter through a series of hypothetical, challenging
hunting scenarios to see exactly how they.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Would handle them.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
And today's guest is Ted Zangerley of the Hunting Public.
All right, welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast,
brought to you by First Light and their Camera for
Conservation Initiative.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
And it is that time of year again.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
August has arrived and as we have done for I
think five years now, every August, we kick off are
what would you Do? Series, in which I run a
great deer hunter through a series of hypothetical, difficult, challenging, frustrating,
confusing hunting scenarios, give them very specific hypothetical situations to

(01:19):
see how they would handle them, how they would think
through them, what their decision making processes and everything in between.
So that's what we're doing here today, and we're kicking
it off with a great first guest, Ted Zangerly from
the hunting public.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
He is a die hard deer hunter.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
He has had success and experience all across the country,
oftentimes hunting brand new places, hunting public heavily pressured tough spots,
and getting the job done. So Ted has a lot
to share here, an interesting perspective, I think, in something
that all of us can learn from, whether we're hunting
you know, big pieces of public land or our own

(01:56):
back forty or something in between. Lots of good stuff,
very actionable information. So two very quick housekeeping things before
we get to my chat with Ted. Number one, if
you have not heard, we have a totally new limited
run podcast series on the Wired hunt feed. It's called
the Back forty Podcast is hosted by my friend Jake Hoefer,

(02:17):
and each one of those episodes he asks one specific
burning question to eight different expert guests.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
So it's a very.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Interesting format, really interesting people that share their perspectives. Definitely
go check that out. The first two episodes should be
out by now if you're listening to this here at
the beginning of August.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
Twenty twenty five. Point Number two, this hat.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
The new Wired to Hunt vintage whitetail hat is quickly selling.
I was over at the I said this last week,
but I'll say it again. Was at the Mediator's store
the other day. They are already out of them. So
if you want to grab this hat, go to the
mediator dot com, go to the.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
Store page, check it out. I appreciate you repping this.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Appreciate you so porting the podcast and making sure that
that Wired to Hunt flag is flying strong. So without
further ado, let's get to the what would you Do
Gauntlet with Ted Zangery.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
All Right, welcome to the show.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
Ted, Hey, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
I'm excited for this one because, well, for two reasons.
Number one, this is our first what would you Do
episode of the year, and we've been doing these for
maybe five years now, and it kind of symbolizes like
the real kickoff of like hunting seasons coming soon. August
is here, the full blown ramp up is an effect,

(03:46):
So it's exciting from that perspective.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
And then number two, it's.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Exciting because while you have been on the Wired Hunt podcast,
it was with my buddy Tony and not me, So
this is our first time getting to do a show together.
So I'm excited we get to chat. I appreciate you
coming out here do this.

Speaker 5 (04:01):
Yeah, for sure, this would be good to get the
mindset back into rolling back into deer hunting.

Speaker 4 (04:06):
So getting ready to get into it exactly.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
And so you know what the format is that the
plan here is that I'm just gonna throw you in
the fire. I'm going to toss out a bunch of specific,
you know, sometimes challenging, sometimes frustrating, sometimes cool scenarios, and
I'm hoping you can kind of walk me through what
your mindset would be, how you would approach this challenge,
what you would be thinking about, what you would do,

(04:31):
how you would handle it. It just seems like oftentimes
when we have these very specific scenarios and we hear
how people would kind of go through this, it makes
it makes the kind of learning opportunities really really pop.
So so that's the point, are you ready to run
through the gauntlet. We're just gonna get right into it.
I think that sounds good to me.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
All right.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
So here's one that I think is kind of in
your wheelhouse. You guys have like a kind of a
version of this many times given the hunting style on
the way you guys spend your year. So imagine that
this year you are gonna hunt Ohio. You've got in
Ohio tag, you are tentatively planning on going there for
a November hunt. But you've never been to this place before,

(05:16):
never hunted it, never scouted it, never set foot there,
and it is a piece of public land that's pretty big,
pretty big piece of public You are going to get
to have one day of scouting in the summer. Let's
say sometime this month, in August, you're able to carve
out one single day to scout it before your November hunt.

(05:37):
How exactly would you best use that kind of twelve
hours on the ground. Let's call it August twenty fifth
you're going to go, So you have August twenty fifth,
You've got twelve hours of daylight.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Let's say, how do you spend that one day?

Speaker 5 (05:50):
Yeah, I'd probably obviously beforehand, I do a bunch of
scouting on the map out there, looking at a bunch
of different stuff, looking at all the access points, all
the roads, whatever it may be. And honestly i'd probably
look at where we turkey on it a lot, because

(06:12):
we turkey on it out there a couple of years ago,
and I remember seeing like a bunch of deer during
the evenings. So I'd be thinking about all those past
experiences and all that and get out there, probably do
a bunch of driving, looking around at stuff, looking at
the fields, looking at all the trails and stuff like that,

(06:35):
and then just dive in there. And one thing that
I am trying to get better at in my scouting
is picking out like specific setups when I go in
in the summertime. And if I can do that a
little bit better going forward, I think that would help

(06:56):
me out a lot. So I think a lot of
times I'll go into an area scout, but I won't
like really narrow down on stuff, especially in the summertime.

Speaker 4 (07:04):
I'll kind of look at it real broad.

Speaker 5 (07:07):
And so that's one thing that I want to try
and get better at, is like looking narrowing down my
focus on like one specific spot and then picking out
a specific tree and saying, all right, on this wind,
this type of condition, day I would come in, this
is how I would get in there and pick that

(07:29):
tree and just have a route planned out to get
in there and hunt it.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
So given that you only have one day, but you're
coming back for you know, a week or so in November.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
How many spots like that would you try to have?
Would do you think you go into the day like,
all right, I need to pick out X number or
is it just going to be Oh, if I come
across you know, a banger, then I'm gonna fully think
it through like you just did, Like how would you
think about that?

Speaker 5 (07:56):
I'd try and find as many as I could, But
if you only have one day, you'd probably only have
maybe two or three they can find like that if
you really got after it from daylight to dark. I
feel like, so that might not be super realistic just
having one day, but just being able to go out

(08:17):
there and drive around the area. I think that helps
tremendously going back into it, because then you already have
an idea. Even if you don't have a specific tree
you're going into, you'll have you know, a few different
spots at the very least to that you're going to
want to come back to and kind of key it on.
Maybe maybe you just drive by a spot too, where

(08:39):
I drive by a spot and I'm.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
Like, oh, this looks this looks good.

Speaker 5 (08:42):
Doesn't look like it's real obvious to get in there,
or maybe like there's a spot where you got to
go like straight up a hill to get up in there.

Speaker 4 (08:52):
That would be a spot.

Speaker 5 (08:53):
Maybe I don't dive in there right away, but i'd
keep note of it on the map, and you know,
middle of the day, if I'm out there hunting during
the fall, I'd have that spot in mind and say, well,
let's hike up there and just check it out and
kind of scout away into it and pick a spot
to hunt for that afternoon if we can find something
in there. But I think that would be the main

(09:14):
thing for just having a day in August driving around
marking as many spots as I can to that pique
my interest.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
I guess what percent of that day do you think
would be that high level driving around, you know, getting
the landmarks figured out, getting the general area figured out.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
Is that like fifty of the day quarter of the day.
I think.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
I asked this because I think a lot of people
when they think they've got you know, a short amount
of time of scout, they just want to like jump in,
have boots on the ground.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
And walk walk walk walk walk.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
But a lot of times, you know, folks like you know,
I mean, we we had had a similar question to
Aaron and Zach, and I think they kind of had
a similar approaches. You know, there's a lot of important
importance on understanding and have the outside end view. How
much of your day do you think you'd devote to
that high level side of things.

Speaker 4 (10:07):
I'd probably I'd say probably fifty.

Speaker 5 (10:13):
Would be driving around at the very least, I think,
just because depending on how big the area is too,
Like if you can cover it from daylight till noon, say,
and then I think from that point that's going to
help you pick out the spots that you want to
dive into and put boots on the ground and scout.

(10:35):
So I'd probably drive around until I covered the whole thing,
and then you never really know what that's going to uncover.
I feel like a lot of times.

Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yeah, yeah, so true.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Okay, Let's imagine we are we're hunting. Season's open and
it's an out of state hunt opening.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
Week of the sea. You're there for a week.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
This is mixed private ag ground, so like think like
alfalfa or soybeans, something green on the neighboring private the
public land is river bottom ground.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
All right.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
The hiccup, like the kind of wrench thrown into your plans, though,
is that you can't hunt the first few days of
the season, so you have to show up like three
days late. So it's opening week, but you missed the
first three days, so you know, the amazing opening night
when no one's been in there, Like, we don't get that.
You have to show up after those first few days
of hunting. And this is a place that historically has

(11:39):
had hunting pressure, so this is not like some kind
of secret Heidi hole that no one's gonna hunt. There
will be people hunting those first couple of days. So
that's your scenario. It's opening week, but you missed the
first three days. River bottom cover that you can out
in the public green ag fields on the neighboring private.
How would you approach your first few hunts on this
property in this situation? Do you still hunt it like

(12:01):
you normally would like an early season opening week or
are you assuming now they're not on the food, they're
probably you know, reacting to pressure.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
How would you tackles.

Speaker 5 (12:10):
I'd probably say saying it's three weeks in or not
three weeks, three days in the sea, three days, I
would think, okay, I'm gonna go around and check these
access points and see like, is there a bunch of
tire tracks in there?

Speaker 4 (12:25):
What's that?

Speaker 5 (12:26):
What can I tell from just the clues on the
ground how many people have been in here, how many
people been in here, whatever it may be.

Speaker 4 (12:35):
But then from there, once I.

Speaker 5 (12:36):
Figure out, let's say I find a spot that looks
like there has been a whole lot of people into it,
and I'm imagining like a piece of river bottom that's
you know, there's a little bit of or quite a
bit of room back there, like you have some room
to roam once you leave the parking lot, maybe you can.

Speaker 4 (12:56):
Get deep in their ways.

Speaker 5 (12:59):
I'd probably from there if I had a day or
two or three days to hunt. At that point, I'd think,
all right, well, I'm gonna just kind of ease my
way into this. I'm just gonna take it real slow.
Maybe maybe head in at like noon or one o'clock
and just kind of pick my way back in there
and scout and look at all the sign.

Speaker 4 (13:21):
And then once I find.

Speaker 5 (13:23):
Start finding a little bit better sign like rubs and
good trails and whatever it may be, I'd probably set
up and hunt it for the afternoon and then just
kind of take it like a stage stage hunt all
the way back in there. If I was just going
to focus on that one specific river bottom piece, because
like you said, they're probably not gonna be coming out

(13:44):
to the food at that point, so then or in daylight,
you know, So yeah, I just kind of pick my
way back in there. And I feel like that's something
we do all the time, and that's one of my
favorite ways to hunt. If you have a spot where
you're like, you know, there's you know, there's a buck
back in there somewhere, or several bucks maybe, and just

(14:06):
kind of play detective back in there for a couple
of days and just kind of you know, you start
seeing a little bit of sign, you start running into
a few deer here and there maybe, and then set
up and try it. And if you don't see the
action there you want to see, then the next day,
as long as you didn't spook a whole bunch of stuff,

(14:27):
just tear down, go back out, and then the next
day just go in there a little bit deeper until
you find the next batch at hot sign. And then
I think if you do that and you just kind
of always have the wind in your face or whatever,
and you just take it real slow, give yourself plenty
of time to get back in there and get set up.
I think that's a lot of times we have some

(14:48):
of our best hunts.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
So what if let's throw one more curveball in there.
All right, Let's say that you have hunted this piece before.
You hunted it the year before, but you hunted it
like mid September, so we're imagining this is like opening
week early September.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
We'll see. So you've hunted it in mid.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
September before when it was like really blown up two
weeks worth of hunting, and you did the approach you
talked about where you kind of staged your way back,
but you had to keep on going farther and farther
and farther back to finally find where they're daylighting. So
mid for mid September hunt you found out you had
to be like all the way on the edge of
the bed I mean sorry, all the way on the
edge of the river almost until you could actually get

(15:30):
some daylight activity. So now you know like where the
core core core stuff is. But at the same time,
now you're thinking, well, we're only three days in, maybe
they're moving more. So I guess what I'm getting at
is if you knew where they were bedded, would you
still be kind of careful and start far out and
slowly work your way back because maybe only three days

(15:53):
and they might be coming out that far. Or would
you say, well, I know where they're at, and maybe
I could kill them, you know, one hundred yards in
from the field edge, but I could just blast right
in there and just get tight to the bedding that
I know is very very deep. But at the same time,
you're gonna have to push through a lot covered to
get there. Does that change things at all?

Speaker 4 (16:11):
I think it might.

Speaker 5 (16:12):
I think it might change things a little bit. Depends
on like some think it depends on the time that
I would have, Like say if I had if I
had three days to hunt it, and I'm like, I
don't know, they might make it all the way out here,
because I think I think that's also something that we
do a lot, or I do a lot where like
you're saying, Okay, I'm pretty sure they're going to be

(16:34):
right in this hole right back here. And then if
it's early on in the season, even though maybe it's
three days in and there has been some people in there,
I think a lot of times like I'll push it
a little bit too far, too fast, and then I'll
blow something out of there and it won't work out

(16:55):
where if I have if I know I have that
time to kind of ease my way back in there,
then I'll probably be a little bit more conservative and
you know, hold up a little bit and just see.
Because a lot of times, like early in the season,
like I was saying, like I'll go too far. I mean,
if I'd have just held up back there and a

(17:17):
buck might get up and all of a sudden, he's
you know, covering a little bit more ground than what
I maybe expected. Because there one time Iowa during early
muslither season, I had a real similar situation happened. I
guess where I ended up killing a buck. But me

(17:38):
and Keith were hunting. It was like these big ridges
that all dropped down into a bowl and it was
a bunch of nasty willows at the very end of it.
But these ridges are like super super long, so long
ways coming from the parking lot, and then it all
dropped down into this river and we would walk in

(17:59):
and we'd only take it one hundred and two hundred
yards and there'd be scrapes and rubs, and then I'd
bump a dough or something. I'd be like, oh, you know,
I better hold up right here, because I'm like, I
don't know, they might be just over this next little
in this next little bowl or something coming up to
this ridgetop to feed on all these acorns. So we

(18:21):
set up, like I don't know how many days in
a row. We set up probably three days in a
row where we'd go in and set up and we
wouldn't see nothing. Then we might I mean we were
bumping does on the way in, so that would be
a lot of times where I'd be like, oh, I
better stop right here because what if the buck's like
right over the next deal. So we did that for

(18:44):
three days, I think at least. But the thing that
we were looking at to make our move all the
way in there to where we thought that the bucks
were probably at was there was a day coming up
that was super super windy, so like fifteen mile an

(19:07):
hour winds was coming up, and it was going to
be early muzzle other season, so we were like, well,
it's just kind of pick our way in here, and
maybe there is a chance that there's one up on
these ridges, it's going to pop up here before on
the top before dark. And so we did that a
few different times, and like I said, we didn't see anything.

(19:28):
Maybe we had a dough come by real late, but
not much. And so then that day when the winds
picked up, we were like, all right, we're we're going
We're going for it now. And the interesting thing to
me about this whole hunt was.

Speaker 4 (19:48):
The amount of deer that we kicked up on the
way in to get.

Speaker 5 (19:51):
To where the buck ended up being at and where
we were kind of thinking he.

Speaker 4 (19:55):
Might have been at.

Speaker 5 (19:56):
And so it was me, Keith and Gregg and we
just kind of went in on that same ridge top
that we'd been hunting, and we were walking past rubs
and scrapes and everything else kicking up does I mean
we probably kicked up ten or fifteen dos up on
the ridges, and every time one would get up, I'd
be like, oh crap, did I.

Speaker 4 (20:18):
Just screw the boodchier right?

Speaker 5 (20:21):
And it'd take off and it'd be a dough and
it's like, all right, good, So we'll just keep easing
our way back in there, and eventually we got all
the way to the back and started dropping off down
into the bottom and at that point, because we were
moving pretty slow the whole time, it was like getting
to be the last hour a daylight or so, and

(20:42):
we just dropped in there. And right as soon as
we dropped down in there, I looked up and this
buck was coming right out of the bedding cover that
we were thinking he might have been in.

Speaker 4 (20:54):
And then we ended up getting him.

Speaker 5 (20:56):
But that was That's one that is pretty similar to
that situation, like you're talking about, just like making a
decision to whether or not you still hunt or stage
your way in there, or do you just die right in.
It's hard because it's a hard decision to make a
lot of time, especially for me, where I'm like, I
don't want to go too far and blow it all

(21:17):
up before we even have a solid hunt, you know, inside.

Speaker 4 (21:22):
The bubble of where we think he's at.

Speaker 5 (21:24):
Yeah, And uh so, I really I really like hunting
like that whenever I can just kind of ease my
way into a spot and eventually dive all the way
in there. But I mean you run a risk too
with that, where it's like maybe you don't go all
the way in there, and then the next day you
show up and there's already a truck in the parking

(21:45):
lot or something, and then you don't get the chance
to actually dive all the way in there. So it
can be kind of a hard decision to make, But
those hunts are pretty fun.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
I think if you have that situation that like, let's
continue to on that line. So let's imagine you start
stage hunting. Let's say you're you're two days into your
stage hunt. You've you've hunted the first day kind of
conservatively saw some deer, but not quite right. So you say,
day two, I'm gonna go in. I'm gonna push one
hundred yards further. Let's say you get in there and

(22:16):
now you start seeing some bucks, but it's like a
couple of nice two year olds, but you just know
there's got to be a big old stinky hog back
there somewhere.

Speaker 3 (22:23):
You're just not quite far enough. So now day three,
you show back up.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
It's a Friday, and there's a truck of the parking
lot and it's kind of let's just say, like it's
the kind of public land that in your head you're thinking, man,
it's gonna be really hard to get back to where
I want to go without having to walk past this guy.
Either this guy is in there or he's gonna be
somewhere that I'm gonna have to walk right past or
in that zone. You know, would you say I'm going

(22:48):
for it anyways.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Or would you be would you bow out.

Speaker 5 (22:52):
M I'd probably I'd probably be trying to figure out
a way to get in there. Yeah, hopefully not walk
right underneath the guy. But if I had to, you know,
if there's like no other way to get in there,
and I might, well, he's if say the say there's

(23:14):
like this access that you're like, all right, he's gotta
be back, I'm gonna walk by him, then I probably
wouldn't do it. But h if there's another way to
like loop in there and get back to the stuff
that I'm wanting to hunt, then I would.

Speaker 4 (23:30):
I would go for it, because you know, who knows
he might be.

Speaker 5 (23:35):
He might be all the way back in there where
you're trying to go, or he might be just out
of sight out of the parking lot too. So if
there's a way that I think that I can get
in there without messing his hunt up too much, then
I would do it. But if I knew I was
gonna have to walk right underneath of him. I'd I'd
stay out of there, but and probably and then i'd

(23:55):
probably come back the next day or two days later
and just I have all the way back in there.
But yeah, those those can be tricky, and that's why
it's nerve wracking to hold up sometimes and not dive
all the way in. But that's just the risk you run,
I guess on the public.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
Yeah, yeah, that's the truth. All right.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
It's it's early October, and you are kind of doing
what you just described. You're kind of scout hunting your
way in, so you don't have anything pre mapped out,
you don't have something, you don't have a tree picked out.
You're gonna kind of still hunt, slash scout your way
in until you find a.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Spot that looks really good. We'll say we're.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
In like like Illinois, Missouri kind of location, okay, and
you're working your way through and you spot a buck
standing up in a brushy draw definitely looks like some
brushy kind of bedding cover.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
He's standing up.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
He seems like, man, this could be a situation where
I could move in closer, but he beds right back down,
and as you start working your way towards him, you
realize that the wind's a little bit swirling. Let's say
it's kind of in a low spot and you're just
noticing the winds doing some funky stuff. What do you
do in that scenario? Would you try to make a
move on that deer right then and there? Or does

(25:26):
that does that kind of if you wind make you
be more conservative and make you want to do something different?

Speaker 3 (25:32):
How would you approach it?

Speaker 2 (25:35):
And then let me let me paint just a little
bit more of the picture while you think, imagine he's
he's in this kind of low, brushy draw you saw
him bed down. I'm imagining like like briars, alders, willows
like that kind of just like kind of brushy low stuff.
And you've got like a couple different low rages that

(25:55):
kind of all drop down to this slight depression. So
you've got some hard woods and then this brushy stuff
down there on the bottom where you just saw him
drop it, and maybe some grass mixed in there.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
That's your That's as best as I can give you.

Speaker 5 (26:10):
Okay, let's see what time What time frame was it?

Speaker 3 (26:15):
First week of October? First week of October?

Speaker 5 (26:18):
All right, Yeah, I'd probably if I started, Let's say
I start diving down in there, and I'm starting to
get a little bit closer down into the hole that
he's in, and the wind starts getting a little funky
on me, I would I would probably back up. I
would for sure back up to wherever I got a
good solid wind, whatever direction it is, say it's back

(26:40):
in my face at that point, and then from there
I would take a second and just look at the
whole situation, and I would take as much time as
I needed to try and figure out how to get
in there wherever I think he's going to come out at.
I'd probably even look at the map. Even though I'm
looking at the deer, I still look at the map

(27:01):
a bunch and think about, all right, where's he going
to go from?

Speaker 4 (27:04):
Right here? Is he going to come out?

Speaker 5 (27:05):
I think he's gonna come out to the north east,
whatever it may be. And then I would then that's
when I would make my make my move on him,
where I would probably early October, I'd probably want to
get within one hundred yards if I could, or closer,

(27:26):
depending on the situation. If I could find a spot,
say I could find a spot where maybe I just
keep bouncing a little bit and out of sight of him,
and then I eventually find a spot where all right,
the wind is coming right up this draw and it's
probably gonna hold all the way up this draw.

Speaker 4 (27:43):
Then maybe I'd have a better.

Speaker 5 (27:45):
Chance of just kind of easing straight down at him
and getting as close as I could. But that's the
thing whenever you and that's where they're at a lot
of times, wherever the wind is just doing like this.
So uh, but that's also a fun situation to be
and if you have one spotted, then you can just
kind of, if you have enough time before he gets
up and gets out of there, just take a step

(28:08):
back and try and figure it out. I guess that's
the funniest part I think about hunting, and everything is
just all the strategy and like the chess match that
goes into it of stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (28:22):
But in that situation, I'd for sure, especially.

Speaker 5 (28:26):
If I'm on an out of state hunt and I
got eyes on a buck down in this bottom, I'd
be trying to do whatever I could to get within
killing destined of them.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
I guess.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
So it's okay, so you're throwing milkweed or something, checking
wind all the way, you get to a spot where, like, hey,
I actually think the wind might work here. You find
your spot that you just describe, which is as close
as you can get.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
But here's something that I've often debated.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
When you're in the situation where you know there's a
buck better than there and it's kind of low brushy stuff,
right so you can't see him right now, But if you.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
Get higher, can he see you?

Speaker 2 (29:04):
I'm always I'm wondering at this point, do I just
hun the ground or do I try to slip in
some sticks and staddle and get up in the tree
and give myself a slightly better position or slightly you know,
you know, just better circumstances. Would you risk trying to
get up in a tree in that situation or just
stay on the ground and make sure that there's no
chance he sees you.

Speaker 5 (29:25):
In that situation, I'd probably be staying on the ground,
I think. But that's that's the thing. It's like hard,
you know, if you're not actually looking at the whole deal.
I would it would be hard to decide what you're
gonna do.

Speaker 4 (29:39):
But I would.

Speaker 5 (29:41):
I feel like I would probably stay on the ground
because I would I feel like i'd be maneuvering around
as much as I.

Speaker 4 (29:48):
Needed to find the spot that I thought would work.

Speaker 5 (29:52):
Like I'm imagining he's in this bowl right here, but
you got these little finger hedges that are kind of
dropping down all the way around pretty much, and that's
where I'd be like trying to figure out. I'd be
taking quite a bit of time, like like you said,
dropping milkweed, trying to find that spot where maybe there's
a little bit of a more steady wind as I

(30:14):
get in there closer.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
And yeah, I think I would stay on the ground
because then.

Speaker 5 (30:20):
Then if he does get up and he does something
a little different than what you thought, you might still
have a little bit of a chance to maneuver a
little bit, try and get in front.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
Of him and.

Speaker 4 (30:33):
Climbing up in the tree.

Speaker 5 (30:35):
If you climb up in the tree and you're in
sight of him, I think then you might blow him
out of there before he even gets up and does
whatever he's gonna do. So uh, and here's another here's another.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
Thought on it.

Speaker 5 (30:49):
Say, say he gets up and does something a little
different than what I think, and it's like, oh boy,
he's gonna he's gonna walk right up there and get
our or something.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
Say, if I have.

Speaker 5 (31:01):
A chance to slip out of a drawl or something
and get out of there before you can can get
to our wind, then I would do that to you.
And that'd be an advantage of being on the ground
because then you might have another chance at him the
next day if he's if he's in that same spot
or or somewhere close.

Speaker 4 (31:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
So, yeah, I was gonna ask. I was gonna ask
a follow up kind of similar to that I was.
I was wondering, and you know this is I've got
another question kind of around the same challenge. But but
I'm curious what you would do in this specific scenario.
Imagine you did this, You found this spot, you found
this little draw where it's kind of sucking your wind down.
You finally get that consistent wind. You set up on

(31:43):
the ground, you're happy with the situation. You're just counting
down and you're just waiting. It's it's three hours to dark,
it's two hours to dark, it's one hour to dark.
And now you're thinking, like any minute now, this buck's
gonna get up and this thing's gonna happen. And then
at that one hour mark, your wind, your consistent wind
isn't consistent anymore. It starts doing the swirly thing that

(32:05):
it was doing everywhere else. With it being the last
hour of daylight, are you like, I'm out and you
slip out of that draw some way, or do you say, well,
it's the last hour, you know, you know it is
what it is, and just play it out and see
what happens.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
How do you handle that?

Speaker 5 (32:21):
Mm hmm, that's that's tough. I would probably at that
point being if it's the last hour and I'm thinking
I'm in this right spot, but the wind is wrong,
I would probably have a hard time. I would probably
have a hard time leaving, But I don't necessarily think

(32:41):
leaving is would be the wrong answer.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
Well, you know how it is.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Sometimes you get where the wind's like not always wrong,
like it's it's good for five minutes, and then five
minutes like I don't come out right now, but then
five minutes I was like, Okay, now if you came
right now, it would work, you know those.

Speaker 4 (32:55):
Days, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 5 (32:57):
And there there so there was one hunt I'm thinking
of that's real similar to this, But it was in
the morning and this was out in Wyoming and me
and Greg had spotted this buck. He walks all the
way down this river bottom and walk it or we
watch him for a long time, lays down and he's
like right below us, and we're.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
Up on like this it drops off.

Speaker 5 (33:20):
It's this big bluff, so we're like looking right down
at him, and uh. So we make our move and
get down in there, and it's the same same situation
you're talking about, except it's not it's not in the afternoon,
so I don't know when this thing's gonna get up
or what he's gonna do. But we slip all the

(33:40):
way in there and get to like twenty yards of him,
and we're sitting there and all I can see is
like part of his rack, just sitting there, and it's
moving every once in a while, just a little bit.
And our wind was pretty consistent, like blowing parallel to him,
I guess, And we sat there for a long time,

(34:01):
like a couple hours, but our wind every once in
a while would make like this weird flipping around, and
he wouldn't spook.

Speaker 4 (34:11):
So we're like, all right, well, it must be all right.

Speaker 5 (34:13):
It must just be kind of swirling real quick, but
not getting to him getting out of there, So we
sat there and sat there and sat there, and he
never got up, and all of a sudden it did
the same thing. And then that time he caught us
and he was out of there immediately. So that's like
that's part of it too, Like running that risk.

Speaker 4 (34:34):
I think.

Speaker 5 (34:36):
It's just a hard situation to make that decision, but
like that's the I feel like that's the difference a
lot sometimes is if I'm out of state and we're
on like the third day of the hunt at that point,
and we're within twenty yards of this year, but our
wind is kind of acting a little funky, then at

(34:57):
that point, I'm I'm sticking it out. I'm gonna see
if he stands up or what he does, and if
I can, if you just all you had to do
is stand up for just a few seconds and then
I'd probably got a good shot at him.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
But at that point, yeah, I was.

Speaker 5 (35:11):
I was in there to It was either make or
break at that point, and we just had one gust
of wind that switched on us and you got us.
But going back to your situation like you're talking about,
in that, uh, I'm probably gonna stick.

Speaker 4 (35:28):
It out if I If I'm.

Speaker 5 (35:30):
In there in the spot that I want to be in,
and our wind starts acting a little bit funky, I'd
probably be like, well, we're just gonna see what happens,
because in an hour, that wind could still switch quite
a bit. At that point, Yeah, like thermals might start dropping,
and that might screw you too, But at least you know,
you don't necessarily always know exactly what that wind's going

(35:52):
to do, so you might just stick it out a
little bit. Or I would maybe stick it out a
little bit longer and just see if see what what
might change, and maybe I can still have a chance
at that point, I guess.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
But I feel like in these kinds of scenarios, especially
public or heavily pressure private, there are certain special scenarios
where sometimes you just got to risk it. Oh if
you have eye, if you have eyes on a good buck,
that's such a special thing, Like, oh, you don't.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
Get eyes on a buck all that.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Often where you know, oh, he's right here, Usually you're saying,
I think he's here, right, I think he's there. But
when you know he's right there, you kind of got
to just send it.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
In a lot of cases, you.

Speaker 4 (36:33):
Got to go for it at that point.

Speaker 5 (36:34):
I think I think the same thing like you're saying,
it's so hard to especially if you are watching him
stand up and lay back down. I mean, that's that's
a lot of times the best opportunity are going to
get So you might as well just stick it out
and see if you can make it happen, and that
that first first try at him, because chances are if you,

(36:56):
chances are if you back out of there, say, and
maybe he doesn't get your win right off the bat,
get a chance, he's gonna get up and walk out
of there and kind of be manning around and catch
your ground scent anyway and be somewhere else tomorrow. So
uh yeah, anytime you get in that situation, I feel
like you just got to try and make something work

(37:18):
and that that's that's a fun situation to be in too.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
So yeah, all right, I'm giving you a new one.

Speaker 4 (37:25):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
These are are all kind of slight iterations and something
similar because I'm kind of riffing on things that you
guys often do.

Speaker 4 (37:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
So so again, let's let's say you're in Pennsylvania this
time mid October, and again you're you're working some relatively
new stuff. Like again, you're not hunting your back ford it.
This is like some stuff that you don't fully know.
You map scouted it, you've you've thought about it, but
you're gonna You're gonna do your kind of scout your

(37:54):
way in stage hunt is your plan. But as you
walk through, everything's kind of the same. There's like there's
a little rub here, there's a scrape here, there's some
trails here, but you know, let's stay. You start at noon,
and from noon to one it's still kind of that,
and from one to three it's still kind of there's
a little bit here, a little bit here. But nothing
is screaming. Nothing is like oh yes, Like you're not

(38:16):
bumping a bunch of doughs like you said earlier.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
You're not coming.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Across the red hot, huge scrape on the edge of
nasty thick cover. It's just kind of like open hardwoods,
some mixed cover here and there. But nothing screams, you know,
screams like stop. Would you just keep scouting your way
in all the way till dark or will it be
like the last hour daylight? And you're finally like, all right, well,

(38:39):
nothing seems good. I'm just gonna sit and watch for
the last hour, like how would you handle that scenario
where you scout and never find the oh, flashing red
light stop here situation.

Speaker 5 (38:53):
In that situation, I would probably like I would keep
going until like probably an hour before dark or something.
If I'm not finding exactly what I want to find
or whatever something that says, yeah, I better stop, I'd
probably just keep going and tell about an hour before dark,

(39:15):
and then I might just set up and just see
what happens, and maybe you just get lucky and catch
some deer movement at that point, because I mean, if
you're finding sign all the way up through somewhere and
maybe it's not anything crazy, I mean, there's probably good
amount of deer around, so you might as well just

(39:37):
set up and just see what happens, rather than just
keep walking and then next thing you know, you walk
up on a buck and blow.

Speaker 4 (39:43):
Them out of there.

Speaker 5 (39:46):
So I would probably just, yeah, scout until hour before dark,
and maybe I found a scrape.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
Or a rub or whatever it may be.

Speaker 5 (39:56):
I'd just set up on that and just kind of
see what happened and then and then regroup for the
next day and and try and figure out what I
what do I.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
Want where do I want to adjust? To or what
do I want to do for the next day or two.

Speaker 5 (40:14):
But I feel like we run into that situation a
lot too, where it's like, especially out of state, where
you're like you keep walking and walking and walking, and
you're like nothing is making me want to stop. And
that's a hard situation to decide what to do, where
you're just like and at that point you're so frustrated

(40:35):
you've been walking or something, you're like, let's just let's
just throw up and stand and sit here, or just
sit on the ground and just see what happens. Yeah,
I mean, okay, So another scenario where I ran into
that same pretty much the same exact thing that you
just described. I ran into that last year in at Iowa,

(40:59):
and I had been running trail or cell cameras all fall,
and at this point it's like November third or something,
so I mean, things are really going at that point.
And I was me and Walker, who I was hunting with,

(41:21):
we were not doing that well at that point. We
were like, could not get on deer. We were like
chasing cell cameras around get a big picture of a
big buck over here, and I'd be like, oh, we
got to go try that just like spread myself way
too thin where I'm like, oh, I'm gonna go hunt
over here, and then the next day I'm gonna go
hunt twenty miles over this way in a completely different

(41:43):
piece of public. So when this scenario came up, I
had pretty much just totally wrote off all the pictures
that I'd gotten or anything. I'm like, I'm not hunting
around cameras, not doing any of that. I'm just getting
We're going to go into this piece of public that
we hadn't hunted at that point in the fall.

Speaker 4 (42:06):
But I was like, We're just going to scout.

Speaker 5 (42:09):
Away into it and see what happens, because we got
to just try something different at this point, basically, And
that was the situation that we walked in there.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
There was this big ridge system.

Speaker 5 (42:22):
Found like a little tiny rub here, found another little
rub over here, like.

Speaker 4 (42:29):
Not much really, and.

Speaker 5 (42:34):
It was to a point where I was just like
so frustrated I couldn't find we did, weren't finding anything
that I was like, all right, yeah, let's set up
on this. And so I just ended up sitting down
on the ground up against his tree and it was
this huge bowl that kind of ran down. So we
could see good ways down through there, and it was
only forty minutes till dark, and it was cloudy that day,

(42:57):
so it was probably less than that even and I
just sat down on a tree and we just kind
of sat there and took a break, and it was like,
all right, well, probably not going to kill a deer tonight,
so he might as well just sit down and just
see what happens, and we probably not can see anything.

Speaker 4 (43:14):
We'll probably just walk out and regroup tomorrow.

Speaker 5 (43:16):
So we sit down and like five minutes goes by
and I look up and there's this huge buck standing
down in the clear, down in the bottom of the bowl,
and I'm like, holy crap, walker, I'm like, there's a
big buck down here. And we just sit there and
I don't know what this buck was doing or anything,

(43:39):
but I mean, he just was. He stood up and
then he laid back down, and that was the whole
rest of the afternoon. There was only like twenty minutes
or something of daylight at that point.

Speaker 4 (43:51):
And yeah, he just kind of laid there.

Speaker 5 (43:54):
I don't know if he had been shot or what.
That's kind of what I thought after, but anyway, that
don't necessarily matter. But that's the situation that we were in,
Like we weren't finding anything that, you know, really tipped
us off to all right, we gotta sit right here.
And I think sometimes that's the best thing you can do,

(44:17):
just kind of sit down wherever. I mean, ideally you'd
make an actual setup. At that point, we were just
sitting up against a tree, but I just looked down
and there was a big Bucks standing there, and I'm like,
you know, there's obviously some deer around at that point,
but nothing like scorching hot. And then the next day

(44:38):
we went in there same spot, didn't set up in
the same exact spot, but in the same general area,
and we saw quite a few deer the next day.
I mean, we saw a couple of little bucks, quite
a few dos, and so pretty decent hunt, I guess
the next day.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
But those are always some of them. It was frustrating.

Speaker 5 (45:02):
Situations that I feel like I'll get in where you
just walk and walk and walk, and you just find
in these little tiny rubs or whatever, nothing too crazy.
And I think if you're committed to that spot for
that afternoon, I think that's the best thing you can do.
If you get down to the last hour hour and

(45:23):
a half daylight, just make it, make a decent setup
and see what happens, and maybe you'll learn something from that,
or you might see it, might see some deer, so.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
Or just practice some some zen self talk and try
to calm yourself down from the frustration the day.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
Yeah, that's probably the.

Speaker 5 (45:44):
Best thing you can do anyway, because otherwise you're going
to be your mind's going to be in a whirlwind
for the next day. If you can sit down and yeah,
look at the map and try and at that point
just start coming up with a game plan for the
next day.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
A lot of times, but yeah, regroup a little bit.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
Yeah, I don't think it.

Speaker 5 (46:03):
I don't think it hurts in those situations, just to
make some sort of setup and just see what happens, and.

Speaker 4 (46:10):
Yeah, never know what what might go down.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
All right, So remember that first question I gave you
about having one day in August to go and do
like a twelve hour scout, right, Uh So let's let's
go back there. Let's say you did that one day
of scouting and it was amazing, Like when you walked
through there, you were bumping deer all over the place.
You bumped a one seventy.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
Off a bed.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
You saw just ripped up old rubs from the year before.
You found just like scorched earth, incredible looking activity. And
you knew, like, man, when I come back in November,
this place is going to be amazing. You drove around
the last hour of daylight in the fields and the
surrounding agg and you saw a lot of deer, You.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
Saw a bunch of good bucks.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Everything you could possibly ask for you saw in that
day of scouting. All Right, you return in November, first
week in November, and you pull up to that first
parking lot that you looked at in August.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
There's three cars there.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
You pull up to the second car or the second
parking lot, there's a car there. You go to the
third parking lot, there's a car there. There's two guys
getting out some portable tree stands on the back tailgate
of one of those trucks. Everywhere you go, you're seeing people.
Is that enough to like say, screw it, I'm gonna

(47:33):
go to some other property that we didn't get scouted
this summer? Or would you I guess, or what would
you do? What would you do in this scenario where
the scouting was so exciting. You had such high hopes,
but now you arrive and there's people everywhere.

Speaker 5 (47:46):
At that point, I'm probably I'm probably gonna I'd probably
back out and go somewhere else that I hadn't scouted,
maybe something that looks kind of similar to the have
tet that I did scout where I found all that
real good sign, but also I could see myself you say,

(48:09):
I did see all them people or whatever. I might
still try and find a little spot here or there
where I could slip in and just try it for
a day and just see what happens. Especially if there's
like you're saying, there's deer all over the place. I
would still probably do a little bit of driving around

(48:30):
looking for a spot where maybe there's not somebody at,
or you know, just like a little pocketed ground where
I guess, yeah, where there's not somebody at and just
try it. But then that would be one where I
might try it for an afternoon, and if I don't

(48:50):
see some action or whatever, then I'm pulling the plug
probably pretty quick. But it's it is hard sometimes when
you find a spot that you're so excited about and
then you get back there and and then you just
got to be like, well, this probably isn't isn't the
best spot, so I'm just gonna bounce and head to

(49:12):
the next spot. But yeah, that that's probably what I
would do a lot of times. I mean, I feel
like the more you do it where it's like you
go on these hunts out of state and maybe you're
in a spot and you're just like hunting one day
after the next and not seeing what you want to see,

(49:37):
and you'll just get to a point where you're like,
all right, yep, it's time to pull the plug. And
a lot of times that's an exciting thing to do,
I think, because I feel like a lot of the
times will be you know, in this cycle of hunting
the same spot, not the same exact spot, but the
same public areas, say, and it's just not quite working,

(50:00):
and then you say, all right, time to time to
head to the next spot. And I feel like a
lot of times that's when you that's when things turn
around for you.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
On that trip. Because we do that all the time
where we'll kind of.

Speaker 5 (50:17):
Get married to a spot right off the bat and
you're like, oh, this is gonna work, this is gonna work,
this is gonna work, and then it just doesn't and
doesn't doesn't.

Speaker 4 (50:24):
And then you're like, all right, gotta go.

Speaker 5 (50:27):
Yeah, and uh, I mean, I'm thinking in Oklahoma a
couple of years ago, me and Jake, we're hunting this spot.
Everything looked really good, a lot of deer around, but
also a lot of people. And this was November time frame,
like first week or two November, and we were hunting.

(50:52):
Jake had actually shot a buck in that piece of
public that we started at, and we were seeing you know,
decent bucks here and there, but then we'd run into
people and we'd run into people, and then eventually we
were like, let's just ditch, just go try and find
something else. So we found ended up we were driving

(51:16):
like a long ways across the state. We were just
gonna go clear across the states some other some real
small chunks, and on the way there there was a
tiny little piece of public, or it looked tiny on
the map. It was a decent size once you got there,
but uh no trees, hardly at all. Like nothing on

(51:38):
the map looked like trees or like a block of
woods or anything like that. And we just pulled in
there and got there like twenty minutes before dark and
started seeing bucks left and right, and then the next
day it got up and I ended up shooting one
there the very next morning. So that's that's where I

(51:58):
guess I feel like, uh like, especially if me and
Jake go somewhere like that and then you're just not
seeing what you want to see, or you're just not
getting into quite as much as you want to. He's
pick up and move and and at some point running
to a spot and you're like, all right, yeah, this

(52:19):
is this is it now?

Speaker 2 (52:23):
Location can make all the difference, No, for sure, Yeah
that's the truth. All right, Let's let's riff on this

(52:43):
just a little bit more, a little bit on like
the dealing.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
With people situation.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Let's say that we'll stick in the same spot, so,
same place you scouted in the summer, same place looked incredible.
Let's say you found just like that epic buck betting
kind of sound like like a buck now kind of spot.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
And you're gonna hunt it.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
It's like late October, late October twenty third or twenty fourth.
Let's say that's when you return for this strip, first
time hunting it. You've got incredibly high hopes for it.
There's not a bunch of trucks at the parking lot
this time. So let's pretend that that last scenario didn't happen.
So instead, you show up on the twenty fourth for
the first time, no other trucks, The buck nest or
whatever looks.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
Like, Man, this is gonna be great.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
You slip in, you get tight, relatively tight to it,
sky high.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
This is it.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
And three hours before dark, here comes another hunter and
he goes past you, even closer to the buck bedding.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
Let's say like you can't see. Let's say like there's
a little bit of a.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Gap between where you are and where you think those
bucks are. He walks by withinside of you and goes
past you. What do you do in that scenario?

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Do you hunt it? Do you bail and go try
to find something new?

Speaker 4 (53:57):
If I'm already you're saying up in there.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Yep, you're in a tree. Let's say you're up in
your saddle and he goes past you. It goes deeper
than you, but you know that he went right into
the hole. He's in there somewhere.

Speaker 5 (54:10):
I'm probably I'm probably gonna hunt it for at that point,
I'm gonna stay in there and just see what happens,
because maybe he walks in there and bumps one out
of there and it comes right by me. But yeah,
I'd probably stay in there at that point for at
least a little bit longer, a couple hours or whatever,

(54:32):
and just try it. But then if I'm just sitting
there and just can't get that guy going in there
out of my mind, then at that point I would
probably be like, I, uh, let's go try something different.
I don't like that at that point. But if he
walked in there, yeah, I'd probably sit it it didn't
work out, then then at that point that's when i'd regroup.

(54:55):
After maybe a couple hours, especially if it's getting to
that time of the year, like October twenty fourth, then
I would I'd be more likely to stick stick it
out in there for a little bit longer and just
see what happens, because you never know, and him walking
in there maybe that works to your advantage.

Speaker 4 (55:14):
I guess, uh yeah, but yeah, But.

Speaker 5 (55:19):
Then at that point, if it didn't work out, if
I was there for the whole rest of the afternoon
and he had walked in there past me, then I
probably wouldn't be coming back. I'd probably I'd probably climb
down and make an adjustment, go somewhere else, try something different.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
At that point, yep, makes sense.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
All right, Let's fast forward back to the rut and
you are set up in a location that is just
screaming hot with rut sign, fresh rubs, fresh scrapes, and
you ran this terrific little like terrain pinch point. Maybe
it's a saddle and a ridge and there's a creek crossing,
and there's several different things that make this seem like

(56:02):
a dyamite rut spot. You sit it the entire day,
don't see a single deer. Day two, you go back
and keep hunting it, or because everything else looks so great,
or is a full day with zero deer enough for
you to say, screw this, I'm looking for something new.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
Mmmm. That's I would probably I would.

Speaker 5 (56:26):
I would probably want to try it again, especially if
I was in there didn't see anybody else, then I
would want to try it again.

Speaker 4 (56:36):
If I if I.

Speaker 5 (56:37):
Was in there and then let's say I saw somebody
else walking by me or something like that, and I
didn't see any deer, then yeah, I'd probably be bailing out,
going trying something different, trying to find the action but yeah,
if I if there was a bunch of sign in there,
I'd be trying that spot again. Maybe not that exact spot,

(56:57):
but I would. I would be coming back back in
there the next day and uh maybe hunt that same
spot in the morning, the same tree even And if
that that didn't work out, then I'd be getting down
and doing some walking around in there looking for the
next setup that I think would work and try that.

(57:22):
And I think that's I think that's the whole thing
about the rut too. Like if you're in a spot
like that where there's tons of sign and you're not
seeing really good action, or maybe not really good action,
but you're not seeing a little bit of action, you
gotta get down and and go try and find it

(57:42):
because otherwise, I mean, that's that's what happened to us
this year, same thing. Like I me and Walker scattered
this spot one day and it was like October twenty ninth.
Tons of sign in there, crazy, I mean, like rubs
and scrapes everywhere coming right out of this block of

(58:05):
thick covered and I'm like, yeah, I mean we were
both standing there like this is the spot, but we
didn't hunt it that day because it was super warm
that afternoon, and I wanted to just bounce around and
find a bunch of different spots to go back to
because we were about to have some really good weather
coming up. So I'm like, all right, let's just scout
find spots, mark spots, and won't come back and hunt them.

(58:28):
So I hang a trail camera in there that afternoon,
and right at dark, two big bucks come right in
front of the trail camera, which is.

Speaker 4 (58:38):
Right where I would have set up.

Speaker 5 (58:40):
If I didn't hang the camera there, I would have
just set up there hunted on that trail that they
walked out on. So the next day we go in there,
hunt it the whole day, and we saw one small
buck all day I think, and had one guy while
in on us.

Speaker 4 (59:02):
Before daylight. So that's the spot.

Speaker 5 (59:07):
That was going through my mind as you were going
through that situation, I guess. And so at that point,
I'm like, that was a hard spot for me to leave,
to pick up and leave because I had just gotten
two really nice bucks on here the day before. So
we hunted all day, don't see anything, and I think,

(59:34):
I want to say, we went back in there the
next morning and try it one more time, and didn't
see nothing. And then from there we were like, all right, nope,
we're pulling the plug on this.

Speaker 4 (59:43):
We're not coming back. And kind of the.

Speaker 5 (59:45):
Crazy thing is I didn't hardly have anything on that
trail camera either after that. So but in that situation,
what we did was we backed out after giving it
a full day and then next morning or something like that,
and then we just started bouncing around either in the car,
in the boat, whatever, and then we started getting back

(01:00:09):
on deer after that.

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
So that was once.

Speaker 5 (01:00:13):
That was one scenario where it was like, uh, I
mean crazy good sign in there, just had picture of
two bucks go through there the day before, hunted it
for the whole next day, next morning, whatever, and just
it was just completely dead in there. And then that's
when we pulled the plug after that. But that was hard.

(01:00:34):
I remember that being really hard for me to be like,
all right, we got to go try something else because
this wasn't it wasn't working.

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
So but yeah, what about.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
A slight variation on that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Let's say like you've got this amazing spot and you
go in there and you set up and let's say
it's like it's like a tight kind of location where
you because of the creek crossing. Because of the way
the funnels, you really feel confident, like, man, if a
deer comes through here, he's gonna come through here at
the X. And so you set up in range of

(01:01:08):
the X, and it's kind of a funky tree to
get up into, but once you're up in there, it's
like great cover, perfect shooting range of the AX. Like
you are feeling very very confident. The sign is incredible.
But as the day progresses, let's say the first couple
hours of daylight, you see a bunch of deer and
three bucks all come through, but they're all like twenty

(01:01:30):
yards out of range.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
For whatever reason, you felt like the X.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
That you thought was where they would all be, they're
just doing something slightly off of that, and they're you know,
they're out at fifty yards every single time. These three
bucks that all came through at different times, they're all
just out of range.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
Do you move in any kind of way.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
After the first few hours or do you say, wow,
you know this is this still should work eventually?

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
Do you stick it out?

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
Do you shift your location by twenty yards or what
do you do in that scenario after you've seen three
bucks pass through just out of range, even though everything
else looks so good.

Speaker 5 (01:02:07):
That at that point, yeah, I'd be getting down and
moving over there.

Speaker 4 (01:02:11):
Wherever I'd seen them all going through, I'd be If
I saw a coup, it would probably be one or
two or two or three bucks.

Speaker 5 (01:02:22):
If they two or three bucks went through the same spot, yeah,
I'd be climbing down and getting over.

Speaker 4 (01:02:27):
There for for the rest of the day. Probably.

Speaker 5 (01:02:30):
But uh yeah, which that's a good that's a great
scenario to be in too. I think like, even if
you are sitting there thinking how they should come right
through here, then you see several of them do the
same thing, it's like, oh yeah, I'm getting right over
there and sitting it out. And then that's when you'd
move over there, and then you'd hear something behind you

(01:02:51):
and you'd look back and one be walking right.

Speaker 4 (01:02:56):
That's exactly what true.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
Oh god, yeah, that's so true.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
When when would you make that move? Would you let's say,
like the third buck moves through. In your head, you're like, okay,
I gotta move, but it's nine o'clock. Do you move,
like as soon as that bucks out of sight, I'm
doing it right away? Or are you gonna wait till
a certain time of day when you think the least
do your activity is going to be your when do
you decide to pull that plug and actually physically tear

(01:03:23):
everything down.

Speaker 5 (01:03:25):
I I would probably as soon as that third buck
went through, I'd probably be climbing down as fast as
I could to get over there. I think, because and
that's that's uh, yeah, that's one of those decisions where
it's like you sit there and hesitate just a little bit,
and you're like, should I move or should I not?
It'd be like, I mean, it'd be hard. It's hard

(01:03:47):
to make that decision to do it because any next
thing you know, you're climbing down one another one's coming
spook him. But I think it's I think if you
especially if you see like three of them do that, Yeah,
I'd be climbing down as fast as I could to
get over there. And maybe you don't even maybe you
don't even move over there and climb a tree if

(01:04:08):
you're real worried about like you say, it's like you said,
nine o'clock in the morning and in the middle of
the rut or something. Yeah, I would be like getting
over there as fast as I could, and maybe I
wouldn't even climb a tree at that point, because because
that's another situation where it's like then you're leaving yourself.

(01:04:29):
As long as it takes you to climb the tree
and get everything set up, that's even more time that
you're taking to not be ready to shoot one if
it walks down that trail. So I'd just be probably
getting over there and trying to find a set up
on the ground somewhere to where I don't have to
mess around with anything, you know, the least amount of

(01:04:52):
time as I could. I'd just dive in there and
get ready to to shoot.

Speaker 4 (01:04:58):
The next one that walked down to there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
But yeah, that makes sense, That makes sense. All right, Ted,
We're gonna shift to the last little section of this gunlet,
which is which is like a quick rapid fire session here.

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):
Okay, So I'm gonna give you a question.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
You have to give me your like gut instinct answer
one word answers only, and then we're gonna run through
like five of these real.

Speaker 4 (01:05:24):
Quick one word all right.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
Yeah, yeah, So I'll give you like an option this
or this, and then you choose. All right, so does
the moon impact deer movement?

Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
Yes? Or no? Uh? I have.

Speaker 5 (01:05:41):
Honestly, I have no idea, so.

Speaker 4 (01:05:47):
I really don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:05:48):
I've paid attention to it. I know this isn't a
one word answer, but I've paid attention to it a
little bit, but not enough to actually have my opinion
on it where I'm like, oh, oh, yeah for sure
or no.

Speaker 4 (01:06:05):
I think maybe yeah, but I don't know for sure.
That's the thing though. Here's the thing.

Speaker 5 (01:06:12):
I don't ever pay attention to it because I'm gonna
go I'm lucky to do what I do, so I'm like,
I'm going hunting every day anyway, so I never really
pay that much attention to it. I think if I
had limited time to hunt, I would pay a lot
more attention to it, just because I think that might
give me an advantage of I'm gonna take this day

(01:06:34):
to get out there and hunt or whatever. If there's
these if there is a moon phase that's going through
that looks good, you know, if I've seen that work before.
But yeah, I just don't pay attention to it enough
to say yes or no. I guess all right, I'll
do one word answers from now on.

Speaker 4 (01:06:52):
I'll try.

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
You gotta free pass on that one.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Would you take a fifty yard shot at a while,
I tell with your bow yes or no?

Speaker 4 (01:07:02):
Uh? Say no?

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
But if you if you could only have one of
these for the rest of your hunting life, which would
you choose? You have to pick either rattling antlers or
a grunt tube.

Speaker 4 (01:07:18):
Grunt tube.

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
Spannable or fixed blade broadheads for the rest of your life?

Speaker 4 (01:07:24):
Oh, fixed blade?

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
Should you stop a moving buck with some kind of
sound before shooting?

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
Yes? Or no?

Speaker 4 (01:07:33):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
If you could pick only one of these times to scout,
so you only get one of these windows for your
scouting for the whole year, which would you take? You
can scout like winter, spring, you can scout summer, or
you can have in season. Which of those three would
you pick? You can only pick one?

Speaker 4 (01:07:52):
Uh? Probably in season?

Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
Yeah, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
If you had to get a buck killed, doesn't matter
how old of a buck, doesn't matter how big a buck.
But a buck has to die today and you could
pick only one THHP team member to do it. So
who's the one who'd give you the very best chance
to get any any caliber buck but a buck dead

(01:08:18):
on the ground. Who would be the team member you'd pick?
They give you your best bet to get one and dead.

Speaker 5 (01:08:23):
Ah gosh, I'll say, Jake.

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
There you go.

Speaker 4 (01:08:32):
All right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
Now, here's one where you don't need to have just
one word. You can give me like a full explanation here. Okay,
I'm going to tell you that I rule the world.
I have control of your hunting privileges now okay, and
I'm going to take away your ability to hunt for
the rest of your life unless you kill a mature

(01:08:54):
buck this year. You gotta kill a mature buck this year.
If you do, then you can keep on hunting. If
you don't, you don't get down anymore. This is very
high stakes. Here's the problem. You only get one day
to do it, and you get one location to do it,
like a specific ambush location like this tree or this
spot on the ground or whatever. You get to pick

(01:09:14):
what date on the calendar you think would give you
your best chance, and then you need to describe to
me what that perfect spot would be that you would
want to spend this one day at to kill this
very important buck.

Speaker 3 (01:09:28):
Pick your date, tell me about the spot.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
It can be an imaginary hypothetical spot, or you could
think of an actual place that you think is amazing
for that day, and.

Speaker 5 (01:09:35):
Describe that I mean, I'll tell you, I mean, I
can take up one right away.

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
It's the buck that I shot last year.

Speaker 5 (01:09:42):
Actually, it was November eights and we were in a
spot where.

Speaker 4 (01:09:54):
There is.

Speaker 5 (01:09:56):
Some It was just a draw. So it was like
a perfect draw. It was probably eighty yards wide, maybe
one hundred yards wide, and there was crp out on
the left side and then just like some nasty thick
stuff on the right side, just like honeysuckle and stuff

(01:10:18):
that you pretty much just have to crawl through, and
most or a lot of surrounding area was like that.

Speaker 4 (01:10:24):
It was like a lot of.

Speaker 5 (01:10:26):
Really really thick cover, basically like stuff you think about
going rabbit hunting.

Speaker 4 (01:10:33):
And yeah, so that was the day that it was crazy.
I mean we.

Speaker 5 (01:10:40):
Were seeing bucks left and right, and a couple of
really big bucks and then but it was just like
the perfect scenario. It was early in the morning, thermals
were dropping back down behind us, and no, there wasn't
a single deer that got her wind or anything like that.

(01:11:01):
But that would be my that would be my choice
of day and and where I would sit because we've
seen some deer in that spot years before too, on
that same exact day.

Speaker 4 (01:11:17):
So yeah, that'd be where I go.

Speaker 3 (01:11:21):
What makes what makes that spot so incredible?

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
Do you think it's just because of that thick, nasty
cover and then kind of like a relatively tight pinch
with the draw? Is it the fact that wind sucks
down there?

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
What?

Speaker 4 (01:11:34):
Like?

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
What makes that so good? Do you think?

Speaker 4 (01:11:37):
I think that.

Speaker 5 (01:11:39):
I think that it's a spot where there's oh so
much of that thick cover where I don't think, I guess,
let me say here, I don't think there's bucks there
all year.

Speaker 4 (01:11:55):
Round, Like, I don't even think.

Speaker 5 (01:11:56):
I don't know that there's necessarily a buck that's living
there really in the season or anything, because there's not
like a whole bunch of food around or anything like that.
It's just tons of super super thick cover all around it.
And I think there's a lot of doze in there.
So I think there's doze in there probably most of

(01:12:17):
the year. And then as the rut gets ramped up,
since there are so many does there, uh you know,
there's more does that come into heat and whatever in
that specific spot, and then the bucks just kind of
have these little travel spots that they kind of work through.

(01:12:38):
And yeah, so I'm trying to think about it even
further further in detail than that, But I think that's
the main thing. Just like tons of doze in.

Speaker 4 (01:12:48):
There, not a.

Speaker 5 (01:12:51):
Lot of people around there, and eventually as the rut
gets ramped up, I think since there are so many
dos there, you get this, you know, movement of or
more consistent movement of bucks going through there, checking for

(01:13:13):
checking scent or whatever. Because I mean we were in
there for like two days this year, and I don't
know that we saw the same buck twice. It was
like several different bucks. Every time we'd see one, it
was a different by. So yeah, which was that was
pretty cool. But that's that's where I'd go if I
had to pick a spot to in a day, That's
where I go.

Speaker 3 (01:13:35):
Sounds sounds of my kind of spot, like this sounds
of it. Well, Ted, you passed, you survived the the
what would you do? Gauntlet?

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
Before I let you go, though, could you could you
give folks just any kind of preview that that folks
would be looking forward to? Are there any like really
exciting trips you guys have coming up? Is there anything
new coming up with THHB any sific projects or places
or anything you want us to check out?

Speaker 5 (01:14:03):
We got well this year, the hunt that I drew
an elk tag this year, so I'm pretty excited about that.

Speaker 4 (01:14:13):
And then we.

Speaker 5 (01:14:15):
Got some some more unique trips out west, I guess,
some Muzzloder hunts and stuff like that coming up. So
kind of a kind of a fun fall coming up.
It seems like Warb's got an elk tag down in Arizona,
so it seems like there's going to be a wide

(01:14:37):
variety of of different types of hunts this year coming up.
So I think we're all pretty excited about this fall
just because just for that reason, because there's more drawn
hunts and like different types of hunts than what we're
doing a lot of the time, I guess, So it
should be a pretty fun, pretty fun fall, pretty diverse

(01:15:00):
type of hunting, nice going on the whole fall.

Speaker 3 (01:15:04):
Nice to have that kind of change, a change of
pace sometimes.

Speaker 4 (01:15:07):
But yeah, this season, oh for sure, it'll be fun.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
Well, I'm looking forward to following long Ted. I appreciate
to appreciate everything you guys do. Appreciate you taking time
here today to talk through all this without a doubt
has got me more fired up than even before.

Speaker 3 (01:15:23):
I'm ready to get after it. Yeah, anyday, just a
few more weeks and it'll be just about here.

Speaker 4 (01:15:28):
Oh yeah, for sure. I'm excited about it, all.

Speaker 3 (01:15:31):
Right, Ted, Well, thank you and good luck this season.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
Thank you to you, all right, and that's a wrap
for today's show. Appreciate you joining me. I thoroughly enjoyed
this chat with Ted. I'm very excited for next week.
We have a really really good slate this month of
folks that are gonna be running through these hypotheticals. There's
gonna be some some other public land warriors kind of
like Ted, and then there's gonna be some private land

(01:15:55):
guys and everything in between. So it's gonna be great.
Stick around, stay tuned.

Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
It's going to be a.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
Great month, and then before we know it, hunting season
is going to be here. So until next time, thanks
for tuning in and stay wired to hunt.

Speaker 4 (01:16:10):
H