August 13, 2025 • 48 mins
What separates a good deer hunter from a great one? In this episode, Jake Hofer asks Steve Hanson, Don Higgins, Skip Sligh, Mark Kenyon, Thomas Mlsna, Jeff Sturgis, Bobby Kendall, and Bill Winke to weigh in on the one mistake they see holding most hunters back. Is it luck, having better land to hunt or something unrelated? Is it luck, having better land to hunt or something unrelated?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
People are their own worst enemy in that they're harvesting
that year that they want just a year or two
too early. So I would say the biggest thing you
could do to go from that good to great category
is be much more selective on what you're harvesting.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
We are back with another episode of Back forty Podcasts,
brought to you by land dot com, the leading online
real estate marketplace to find your perfect rural, recreational, agricultural,
or hunting properties here in the US. And this week
we're diving into another topic. We all want to get
better every season. We want to just incrementally get a
little better. And this is rooted to get the expert
(00:37):
panels to share something that maybe you're going to overlook
this season unless you listen to this episode. And it's
the biggest mistake hunters make from being good to great.
And each guest has a different little take a different
perspective on this. And I think that by the time
you listen to this year, you're going to be able
to take eight different things more than likely to have
your season hopefully go a little bit better. And I
(01:00):
often wonder you're finding success. You're you know, you're shooting
good deer having good luck and he just wanted to
get better. We're ready to dive into our expert panels
without further ado. Let's get into the earning question and
whytail dilemma for this week on back forty. First off,
we have Jeff Sturgist to share what he believes keeps
(01:22):
good hunters from being great. Here we go.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
You know, and I could see once you hit that
private land set up, it's more in maintenance mode. Your
public land hunting is scouting and verifying. There's some things
you look at there. But I really feel like that
to be a part of that five percent club less
is more. I think one of the things that you
can buck tradition on is in not fall for a
(01:47):
lot of honisms out there, and one of the big
ones that has kept a lot of people back that
has been a quote tried and true huntism for decades
and decades is you can't kill him from the couch
and firm believe. I wrote an article a long time
ago and it was about you know, I had I
think I was flanked by a couple one hundred and
sixty five hundred and seventy inch bucks that shot the
(02:08):
year before by sitting, you know, one time for you know,
six times for per buck, something like that, seven times
per buck. But the point is that you can kill
them from the couch, and you do that by being patient.
And so there's one way to look at it is
you have this select spot on public land, it's a
(02:30):
little island to go in and hunt. There's a certain
mature buck there. It's almost like you have to beat
everybody in there and that, and there's truth to that,
And I'm not saying there's not certain really high pressure
situations where you're competing with neighbors almost and you want
to get in and shoot the certain box. You're going
to go, throw all cautions to the wind. You're going
to that best spot. I don't choose to hunt those areas.
(02:54):
If it's high competition like that, likely there's not a
mature buck there to begin with. If there's that many
people hunting it in that location. I'd rather go to
a spot that had fewer deer, maybe less sign even
in some of those areas out in Ohio public Land
that I've hunted than the shawnee. I'd rather go in
an hour and not see anybody than go in twenty minutes.
(03:16):
And have tons of sign and see a lot of
people knowing the mature boxer three quarters a mile away.
So I like going to those areas where those there's
not that pressure anyways. But then once you find those areas,
being more of a tactician using the weather is critical
to me. And unfortunately, there's a lot of movement studies
out there, scientific movement studies that'll show that, well, deer
(03:37):
just move consistently in the morning in the afternoon. I
like to look at in terms of extremes, for example,
a blizzard. If there's a blizzard, deer aren't moving. They
might move right before, they'll move when it breaks, but
when the blizzard's coming down, they're in a heidi hole somewhere.
Not they don't get up and brows, but they're not
moving long movements. Same with thunderstorm, high winds forty to
(03:59):
fifty miles sixty million hour winds now. Maybe that's normal
out in your area in the plane state somewhere, but
typically it's not and it suppresses deer movement. And so
if you look at the combination of all those things,
severe heat, even severe cold, sometimes deer won't move in
the morning hours when it's negative twenty, but as soon
as it warms up to plus fifteen at eleven o'clock
(04:21):
in the morning, they're on their feet because they're conserving
energy when it's cold, and they can expend more energy
and conserve it at the same time while they're eating
when it's a little bit warmer.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
We'll put all.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Those factors together, temperature change, extremes of temperature, extremes of winds,
extremes of weather, and it's obvious that your movement is
suppressed when there are at extremities. So if you take
those into an account and you look at the weather,
to me, you can predict when there's going to be
(04:51):
decent times to hunt when there's not. Now, maybe you
just have to hunt on the weekends. There's nothing you
can do about it.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
But even then you can.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Make wise choices on stand selection and save your best stands,
not for your first set, for when the conditions of
the weather are optimum during that weekend. Said, maybe you
have a three day weekend and your boss will let
you take a Friday instead of a Monday, and you
can let him know at the last minute, hey, I'm
gonna take Friday off instead of Monday because that's the
(05:19):
way the weather's slanting, so by the time you're putting yourself.
I shot a lot of bucks on a common lease
I shared with a friend of mine. I shot twice
as many bucks as he did, and it was really more.
He was a really good hunter. He shot a lot
of amazing bucks. Two hundred and some engine Kansas for example.
He shot some monsters. But on that lease that we shared,
(05:42):
I would let him pick his stand first out of
the seventeen, and I'd pick what was left over. I
always search for not our favorite stand, not even both
the best stand, but the stand that had the least
amount of pressure. And so I'd look at an area
that I thought we hadn't pressured for two or three weeks,
little hight hidden corner. And your favorite stand should always
(06:04):
be the next stand you shoot a buck out of,
not the last. And so if you hold true to
some of your favorites, yeah they'll pay off here and there.
But if you want to be in that five percent
club shoot bucks eighty percent of the time your target bucks,
then you have to do things a little bit different.
And oftentimes that is on that property. Over that same
(06:24):
year period of time, I shot seventeen bucks out of
fourteen stands. I think he shot nine bucks out of
two stands and eight out of one stand. And it
was because he loved that horse we called the thorstbasher stand,
and he loved going to it, and that was just
vacation though you like going to it. He'd sit there
doggedly and he loved that stand, and oh that was
(06:44):
fine too. But those are some of the things I
think that take to be a little bit different.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
There you have it. That's what Jeff has to say.
I think fallen into hunting isms that can often be
a trap, and you have to blaze your own path
and figure out what works for you. And obviously it's
worked for Jeff over the years. Next we have Don Higgins.
Here's what he has to say. This is the biggest
mistake from good hunters to great hunters. What is it?
That's easy?
Speaker 5 (07:10):
I think that there's a lot of deer hunters out
there that are very good at what they do, and
they have got so good and so proficient at killing
middle aged bucks like this called middle aged bucks, that
they cannot change what they're doing to kill the next
class of bucks. They're so stuck in their ways. You know,
(07:32):
this has worked for me in the past. I just
need to keep doing it and eventually I will kill older,
bigger bucks. Well, older bigger bucks require a different set
of rules. And I think that there's a lot of
guys that have become so successful at killing three and
four year old bucks that they just can't break those
habits and habits that they've got to break if they
(07:53):
want to consistently shoot five, six, seven, eight year old
whatever older bucks, because they're totally an animal. They played
by a totally different set of rules, and the hunter's
got to play by a different set of rules. And
I can't tell you countless hunters that I consider good
hunters will never become great hunters because they just can't
(08:14):
quit doing things that have worked on lesser bucks.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
How often do you have that conversation with someone that
sends you an email, reaches out, runs into you at
a trade show or speaking event. They're like, don I
feel like I'm here, but I really want to get here?
And then what's the reaction he say, well, you gotta
stop shooting good bucks? Are they do? They say? Good point,
I agree or no, I need to find different spot
because I need to go find the great opportunities and
(08:39):
keep my pattern.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
Yeah, and you know another thing is I can tell
if a guy's never going to be a great hunter,
he's gonna be running down great hunters. He's going to
be making excuses. But for why does that guy always
shoot giants? Well, he he's got lots of money, and
he leases all this ground, he owns this great property.
(09:01):
And or in my case, they'll say he turns loose pennies.
You know, they've always got an excuse for why the
other guy's doing it and why they aren't. If a
guy's making excuses, he's never going to be a great hunter.
I say that you've got a choice in life. And
it's not just with deer hunting. It's with a lot
of things. You can make excuses or you can find solutions.
(09:24):
And there's too many guys out there making excuses for
other people instead of finding solutions to their own issues.
And maybe it's the place they're hunting. Maybe they need
to spend more effort, Maybe they need to go out
of state, you know, maybe they're stuck in a state
like Michigan where there are no bucks the caliber they
want to shoot. They need to spend their effort on
finding places in other states, you know, like Iowa, Illinois, Ohio,
(09:48):
come to the Midwest where those giants exist, and even
at that, it might take years to find the right property,
the right situation. But you can make excuses why somebody
else is successful and you're not, or you can find
solutions to your own situation. And that separates good hunters
from great hunters.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
That's Don's take here on this. And I think there's
a lot of really good hunters and you heard it
from him. What kind of separates the pack, for lack
of a better way to say it, from being good
to great? And that's his perspective, and next step we
have skipsly on his take. What do you think is
the biggest mistake hunters make from being good to great?
They've killed noe on a five year period. They're shooting
(10:30):
some good bucks, and it's human nature. People want to
do better, constantly improved, and so wherever they're at in
the country and whatever their standards are, they would identify
as good, but they want to be great. What's the
mistake that maybe's holding the.
Speaker 6 (10:42):
Back trigger management and discipline. I would say most people
can't do it well. I've shot one sixties that are
five year olds, and I really do want to shoot
a giant buck. Okay, then that means that next time
there's maybe a one sixty or one seventy that's five
(11:05):
that walks by you. You know, as long as you knew,
like there is some bigger deer in the area, or
he could you know, maybe I'll hunt him next year,
you can let him go, And a lot of times
that's what That's how I'll get a lot of the
deer I've got over the years. It's like that deer was,
you know, one sixty five with a kicker at five
(11:26):
years old, and I'm like, now, let's just see what
happens with him. Well, a lot of guys can't let
that deer go. Well, it's kind of it's kind of statistics.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
If your goal.
Speaker 6 (11:39):
Was to shoot a three year old, for example, you're
almost always going to shoot a three year old, because
for every five year old you see usually my like
loose math, I'm making this up, but I might have
to pass fifteen three year olds before I get a
chance at a five year old. It could be math
like that, very simple. So if my goal was a
(12:01):
three year old, the chance of getting a five year old,
so minimal because I'm going to tag out, I'm gonna
shoot a three year old, and I'm gonna get so
many more opportunities to those. Well, if my goal was
I do want to shoot a giant and I know
he's in the area, he's there's a one ninety that's
six or seven years old, and there's also a couple
five year olds in there, and some four year olds
that are you know, one hundred and sixty hundred and seventy.
(12:24):
You can't shoot those, and you probably will get a
chance those those lesser bucks, And if you can't hold yourself,
you know, discipline yourself, you're gonna end up shooting those
and not get the giant one. And then the other
thing where I see going from good to great is
folks don't understand how many different items in hunting habitat
(12:47):
down the list. It depends what level you take it,
how many different eyes to dot and tease, it to cross,
how many different mistakes you can make, and how many
how many different things you need to do, you know,
to shoot great bucks too. May if you're in the habitat,
I could be like, here's a list of twenty things
that you have to do or ten or five or whatever.
(13:08):
It's a long list though, And it's the same with hunting.
There's all these things. When you get to that kind
of like top level stuff that you know, there's so
many eyes to dot and teas to cross.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
It's crazy.
Speaker 6 (13:19):
And usually when guys are like, I have a giant farm,
money is not an object, and I don't have good
results and I'm a good hunter. You start going through
and you're like, dude, you've got a list on habitat
hunting techniques, how much you hunt. That's like one hundred
items long. If you really start going through it all
(13:39):
and say it, say it was twenty items long, and
it's it's actually longer than that, but say it's twenty
and you go through it with anybody that's like, I'm
not satisfied with the results. I'm just I'm not shooting
giants like people would think I should be. I don't
want to admit this to anybody, and I have these
conversations quite often. I don't want to publicly that I'm
(14:00):
I'm very disappointed in my farm. They're missing all these things,
all these common mistakes that I see it all the
time that they need to fix, and it's if you
want to do it, it's a it's a lot of work.
People do not understand how much work and how many
different things go into doing it, you know, at the
(14:23):
top level. And so a lot of people will say, well,
then I don't want to do it at the top level,
and that's fine. That's that's the majority of people, right,
And I totally understand that. But it is it's a
lot of time and it's a lot of dedication, you know.
On the other side, that too, it's not as much
as is what people think. I mean, it's a lot
(14:44):
of time and effort. But the same people are like, well,
I can't do all that stuff. It's like, how much
time do you waste on other stuff? Really, how much
time do you do you blow on watching TV and
sitting on your phone? Take out your phone, go look
go the settings and to go to screen time and
look at how much time did I waste on all
(15:06):
these things? Hey, I could have been doing all these
things for hunting. If that's what you wanted, I want
to shoot a giant buck, Maybe your time should be
utilized to that stuff. And I'm not saying that's the
most important thing hunting if it's not the most important
thing in my life, but if I want to be
good at it, and it's like something, hey, I do
want to be really good at it.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It's just going to take a lot of time.
Speaker 6 (15:27):
And there's a lot of details to this stuff, a
lot of details, and that only comes, you know, figuring
some of those details out.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Well, what are those details? How do I do them?
Speaker 6 (15:37):
It just takes time that you naturally acquire some every
year as you grow as a hunter. I mean, you
could say I was a good hunter at twenty five,
and I was probably good hunter, but the amount of
things I didn't know at twenty five that I know
now is astounding, And the things I'll probably know in
ten years versus today will probably be substantially different. I'm
(15:59):
constantly trying new things, learning new things, being like old self.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
You did some really dumb things. Let's fix this, let's
try new things.
Speaker 6 (16:07):
You know, good hunters are constantly evolving and learning new
things and admitting that they don't have it all figured out.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
After listening to that, you probably realize there's a lot
of different things that go into being a great hunter,
whether it's managing your ground properly, how often you hunt it?
All the things that he said, and I couldn't agree more.
And as you're going through the season, I think you
have to ask yourself those questions and make sure that
you're doing the right thing at the right time. And
if you screw up, that's okay, keep note of it
and try not to make the same mistake twice. Next
up we have Steve Hanson. Here we go. What do
(16:37):
you think is the biggest mistake hunters make from being
good to great? There's a lot of good hunters out there.
With all the tools we have, I feel the bar
of good hasn't gotten lower, but people have gotten more proficient, sure,
And I think a lot of people obviously want to
get better. Everyone wants to get better every year, right,
So what are some things that you think or what's
one thing that keeps guys from being good to them
(16:58):
getting up to the next level of being proficient or
being more efficient? With proficient and efficient.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Sure is, you know, if someone's looking at they're judging
this by the calibler of deer that they're harvesting, so
they're wanting to go from good deer to great deer.
Ninety percent of the time, I would say people are
their own worst enemy in that they're harvesting that deer
that they want just a year or two too early.
(17:27):
So I would say the biggest thing you could do
to go from that good to great category is be
much more selective on what you're harvesting, because obviously those
deer live on the property you're hunting. You figured them
out enough if you pass them up at you know,
if your goal is a one seventy and you shoot
this one at one fifty five, well that was most
likely you're one seventy one year, one year down the road.
(17:49):
So I would say that would be you know, being
able to judge deer and pass deear up is probably
going to be the biggest thing, biggest difference I know
of the guys that truly kill high end deer every
year and the ones that always want to and seem,
you know, to be a year behind so to speak.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, so you think trigger discipline is the biggest That
would be the biggest thing that I see for sure.
So what about for the guy that once goes first
pope and young buck that yeah, you know again, I
think of like Pennsylvania, Michigan or Ohio, where right, you know,
like the each state in each area has a different
ceiling or potential ceiling.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I would say, you know, if if your goal is
is that and that is something you haven't attained up
to that point, you've got a one hundred percent focus
on hunting where they are, if they're If a poping
young deer is a rare deer in your neighborhood, then
move to where one is, go scout more, find one,
but don't invest your time hunting where what you're after
(18:45):
isn't you know, If there's not one there, you can't
get them. I don't care how good of a shot
you are. I don't care how many hours you put
in the stand. So at that point, if your goal
is to up your game to whatever the next level is,
make sure that that target animal exists where you're you know,
and then devote more time to If you don't have one,
devote more time to scouting than hunting, even if it
(19:06):
means you've got a scout during the hunting season. You know,
I see way too many people that just pile into
a stand and sit there all day because they're hunting,
you know what I mean? Where I would rather say, hey,
I don't even have a buck to hunt. It's October
twenty eighth, it's nice and cold out, but they've just
harvested all this corn. I'm going to drive around tonight
in glass. I'm gonna see if I can find one.
Then I find one, then I'm back in the game again.
(19:26):
But if you don't have one to hunt, just randomly
sitting in a stand a lot of days may not
pay off.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, there's Steve's take on this white tail pondering question.
Next up we have Bill Winki. Here we go. This
is the biggest mistake hunters make from being good to great.
So they have some success, and you know, this panel
of experts, they aspire to be as efficient or as
(19:53):
successful as everyone that I'm interviewing for this series. What
are you doing different than a good hunter?
Speaker 7 (19:58):
I'll just hunt better spots usually, you know. And I think, gosh,
I learned an article Conbucon's volting back is a long
long ago, and I said, I bet you if we
if we took the best deer hunter in the United States,
it'd be somebody who hunts public land in Pennsylvania or
(20:20):
Michigan or somewhere like that. In the shooting two and
a half year old bucks every year. That that guy
you're trying to loose in some spots that I get on,
he's probably gonna be at least as successful as war
than what I am. So that the real game is
the diligence and the time and the commitment to find
(20:42):
in those bucks to hunt in the first place. And
you know, that's really what it boils down too. There's
there's almost because the skills involved. Everybody can learn those.
If you can learn, you know, the stuff we've been
talking about serious so far on entry, how to be
bullet grew, you know how to shoot your bowl really well,
(21:03):
you know how to play the win. A lot of
that stuff guys can figure out after a few years
of money. But what they don't have is two or
three big mature bucks gone. And that's what it comes
down to. It's a simple answer. And so the best
hunters are the ones who are the best at money.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
It's been fun for me because that that answer has
been somewhat similar. Of the guys that are have a
lot of nets out are the ones that are actually
the best hunters. They don't say they have some magic
superpower of making a big deer show up in front
of them within their bow bow range. And that's it.
Speaker 7 (21:40):
That's I've kind of resolved myself to that back because
you look around and see that these guys kill them
two or each year, every other year or whatever. It's
like the commitment required to do that something that I'm
not really to make, you know, because for one reason
or another, they have the money, the energyar or whatever
is to make that happen. Nothing against their hunting skills.
(22:04):
I'm sure they're good hunters to but probably not really
that much better hunters than a lot of people. They
just are really good at finding these big deer. And
that's that's. That's the hunt before the hunt. If you
have to pick the which of those two hunts is
the most important, it's the first one.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I think Bill has a really fair point on his
take here. You have to be realistic with your own work, schedule,
your own lifestyle, your own obligations, where you hunt, what
opportunities are there. And I think that's a very real
way to look at it and put it. So I
appreciate Bill chiming in and giving his opinion. And the
next step we have, Bobby Kendall. Here we go.
Speaker 8 (22:42):
I think that the number one thing that could take
somebody from a good hunter to a great hunter is
the ability to think like a deer all throughout the year.
No matter what you're doing, you're always thinking from the
deer's perspective of what it is you're doing, and you
need to use use that information against him. So some
examples like it's it's so easy to watch videos nowadays
(23:06):
and learn to do all this stuff, use all these
tools in our our in our tool belt, you know,
switch grass and corn and all the different stuff you're planning,
and it's it's easy to go out there and and
and just throw it all out there. But if you
step back, there has to be a strategy behind it.
There has to be Do I have a plan for
(23:27):
this food to work in October? Do I have a
plan for this food to work in the summer? Do
I have a plan for it to work in November?
Do I have a plan for it to work in
late season? Is it put out there in a way
that I'm going to get a shot and a bow
shot it fish quickly and efficiently. Because I'm playing the
(23:47):
odds game, he only might walk some many days in October.
I have to be able to get in there does
this location pull my thermals as well as the wind direction,
so I don't get screwed in October, you know, am
I do? I use a cent free box here because
it's an October spot to hedge against swirling winds and
and and you know, all that stuff in the month
(24:10):
of October because this is probably where he's going to
be in October, because he's going to be market territory.
So I can see him wanting to come down that line.
So I'm gonna eliminate those scrape branches so he has
to come here. Like always thinking reverse engineering everything from
the way that a big deer thinks all the way
to when you're picking your tree stand locations. I think
(24:34):
good hunters can identify the spots and they can plant
the stuff, but they when it comes time to picking
what stand to be at that day, they're not thinking,
like a deer, well where is he going to be
today because of the wind direction and he's using his
nose to look for doze or you know. Uh, as
(24:55):
you get into the end of October and into November,
there's all these micro phases or date phase mindset, there's
all these mindset shifts, and so when you have the
ability to think like a deer and be ahead of them,
you know, Like I call October twenty eighth boomerang phase,
and I think it's a little phase that happens where
all these mature bucks kind of have their territory that
(25:17):
they're marking, and then right around the twenty eighth you'll
see them boomeranging out of their core and overlapping into
other deer within the same age class. And so if
you know that, you can be like, well, I haven't
got his picture here, but you know, it makes sense
that he's going to show up here now because we're.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
At that phase.
Speaker 8 (25:34):
And as these faces change, you're ahead of it because
some of them are so short window like that, that's
a fairly short window before his mindset changes to territory
marking to actually does.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
So what I'm hearing is seems almost more instinctual.
Speaker 8 (25:54):
Yeah, it's instinctual, but it's like also like.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Common sense, like, but most people don't think that way.
Speaker 8 (25:58):
Yeah. I think if you take a step back and
maybe we do a podcast on this and think and
just like dive into the mindset of a buck through
the deer.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Season, if you're behind.
Speaker 8 (26:10):
I've heard people say, you know, if you're if you're
doing what you see on the trail came a week
ago or two weeks ago, especially in November stuff, you're
too late, it's already happened, which is right, But on
the flip side of that, you need to know where
to be ahead of him as we change, you know,
so the season almost very systematic. Like for me anyway,
(26:30):
like I have a plan and it's like I don't
even care it's today and now I'm gonna be doing
this type thing, Like it's November twenty eight. Their mindset is,
oh my god, I just lost, you know, however much weight,
and I'm about to die because it's getting really cold
tomorrow like that, November twenty is my date. Like that's
when their mindset kind of changes. So, you know, I like,
(26:55):
I feel there's something about wet standing soybeans in October,
Like it might be one of they're less desirable food sources,
but on a really rainy, soaker of a day, you
might have every deer on your farm in in October.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So it's like thinking, like a deer which is a
really hot tip. That's a really hot tip. Oh yeah,
that happened right down the road here, it's a really
hot tip. Yeah, happen right down the road here. So
I mean to summarize, it's it's a good good from great.
Speaker 8 (27:24):
A deer and not just doing all this stuff we
all do now, like there's you know, you might go
to you might knock that out.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I'm right or wrong.
Speaker 8 (27:34):
Everybody does it different, but like you might come out
to my place and see how it's set up and
be like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. But in my mind,
like I mean, it's everything is done to like to
an exact for an exact reason. But yeah, just thinking
like a deer and having a plan for the whole
season and then using his mindset against him, you know,
(27:55):
instead of like we have a logging division obviously, instead
of just and it's all situational because as I'm saying this,
this is the south facing hillside that we log the
heck out of, But it's because of some strategic things
we got going on down here that makes it so huntable.
You don't need to go up in there. But if
you've got a big wooded farm and you can't do
a bunch of food, maybe further east or something Kentucky
(28:18):
instead of just clear cutting the whole farm. Maybe you
select cut it, but you take areas, go scout, see
where the deer are already betting on whatever knobs, Identify
a tree for that wind relative to the betting area
somewhere you can kind of get in there and then
stand there in the beds and look up at the
(28:39):
sky and south sky, and just mark those trees and
just open the light in to puff on that betting spot.
And then when that thickens and the rest of it's
not thick and he goes looking for does, now you
have connect the dots. So now when he goes and
he's looking for does, when he goes to that thicket
(29:01):
that's only a tenth of an acre, he's not gonna walk.
Before he could just cruise by fifty yards down the
hill because it was easier walking and just look over there.
But now when he gets there, or if there's even
like when I'm picking a tree a stand spot, like
if there's a tree top that naturally fell down, I
might get down into that tree top, even though it
(29:22):
might make more sense to be in a tree right
over here, because in the rut, when he goes there,
he's gonna come on this side of that tree that
he can't see into to smell for dough, and same
thing on those little thickets. So you got these connected dots,
and when he goes, he's most likely going to be
on the down side of that little thicket so he
can smell in it. And you've already reversed engineer by
(29:42):
the way he's thinking. So back to the original question,
is always thinking like a deer, always reverse engineering, whether
you're hunting ground that you cannot do any manipulation and
you're just you versus him and you're scouting and you know,
I still love doing that, or if you're go crazy
over the top with development, it still works most efficiently
(30:05):
when it's reverse engineer from the way a big deer
is going to use it in a way that you
have a plan for the whole season.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
That's Bobby's opinion on this question. Appreciate him sharing it,
and we have up next Thomas Mills Nutt. So, what
do you think is the biggest mistake that keeps hunters
from going from good to great? In your own opinion?
Speaker 9 (30:27):
Yeah, there could be a lot of things, right, and
like you said, you have to define your own success
so that ultimately might dictate what that thing is, but
on a general skill from my experience what I see
across the board, and something I constantly preach and coach
to clients. It's all about thinking ahead, right, you know,
planning long term, long term mindset versus all a short term.
(30:51):
One thing I say to clients frequently is you can't
kill great deer if you kill good deer. And that's
kind of this long term thinking, this mindset of right
now isn't as important as what can build to the future. So,
you know, I always say every year's a building year.
I've said that before, right, every year's building year. Ever
years a building year. If you kill all the good dear,
(31:14):
or you just keep on settling for whatever level you're at,
you're never going to achieve the next level, you know.
And again there's a lot of different variations of that.
Sometimes it's pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. It's
really easy to get comfortable hunting the same few stands,
hunting the same way you do, and being content with
a certain level or quality of animals that you're harvesting.
(31:39):
But ultimately, if you approach a season or habitat, project
or land management, whatever, might be thinking every year's a
building year.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Every year's a building year.
Speaker 9 (31:48):
And also don't fall into this pressure where you feel
like you have to just tag that buck and move on.
Then things start to build up and with that patience, right,
we hear that all the time. Impatience is a virtue,
but it's true across the board, from habitat development to
sitting in the tree stand and holding out for that
higher caliber gear. If you have that patience, it doesn't
(32:11):
take that long really for things to build up, to
level up to Now you're operating at this completely different
level and a different mindset, and I think that's what
it takes. You know, it's just that patience in general,
and passing up a mediocre season or a good season. Right.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
I guess it's all relative.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Right.
Speaker 9 (32:26):
I might look at it and say it's mediocre. You
might look at it and say that's a really good
season for you. A few years of that and then
it's time to level up. But being willing to pass
up certain opportunities to level up and with that push
yourself out of the comfort zone, you know, back to
that comfort zone thing. Understanding when to be aggressive is
probably a big part of that. But I think more
(32:48):
than anything else, it's being patient and focusing on the
fact that every year is a building year, especially in
this game, right hunting, We hear us all time, hunting
is conservation. Hunting is conservation. If we want to be conservationists,
that we need to be thinking long term. Right, So
it's not so much that's happening this year. What can
I do to get better this year. I don't have
(33:08):
to fill my tag every year. Long term mindset that
to me shift at my perspective or or maybe increase
my maturity level as a hunter, and I raise my
standards and that just becomes the new normal. Right then
you're just operating at a different level. You know, there's
a lot of different things that go into being a
great hunter, though, right You know, your level of observation,
(33:30):
the time that you put in all of these things
are going to dictate your sess in the long run.
And all of that goes hand in hand with pulling
the trigger too soon. If you if you settle for
something that's less than great, then you're not investing the
time to become great essentially, right, So, you know, settling
for good isn't always the worst thing, but that takes
(33:50):
away from the time invested in becoming great. And you know,
the same goes with shooting a good deer versus a
great deer. Giving that deer time to mature and express
its full potential. That levels you up. So you know,
there's yeah, there's a lot there. It's all relative. You
know what, how do you define a great hunter versus
a good hunter? Again, it's all really relative. But I
really think patience and just thinking long term is the
(34:12):
biggest factor involved.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Do you think it really boils down to the fear
of failure. There's another way to look at that too, Yeah,
very much.
Speaker 9 (34:22):
So you know, I don't know exactly how that quote goes,
but there's never it's not a failure if you learn
from it, right, And I think that's a huge part
of hunting is everything is a learning opportunity at life
in general. Right, you can look at it as a
failure or look at look at it as a learning experience.
So again, making more aggressive moves or being patient. Yeah,
(34:45):
there's going to be seasons. I've certainly had seasons. Not
that long ago, I passed up a one hundred and
what turned out to be one hundred and sixty two
inch nine pointer that had a thirteen inch brow time. Right,
I passed it up because I was after a different deer.
That was a learning experience, right, I've probably I should
have capitalized on that.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
I ate my tag that.
Speaker 9 (35:02):
Year, but I had a really good season and I
ended up learning a whole lot more about the deer
I was chasing, which led to, you know, subsequent years
of success based on that intel that I collected.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
And really again it leveled me up.
Speaker 9 (35:14):
It changed my perspective on how it hunted the property,
which equaled a lot more long term success. That wouldn't
have happened if I would have pulled the trigger and
killed that deer and tagged out when I had the opportunity.
So it really does come back to that patient side
of things, you know, and again thinking long term.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Do you think there's any shortcut to becoming great?
Speaker 4 (35:34):
No, No, there isn't.
Speaker 9 (35:37):
I mean, in this digital age, this information age.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
I see this a lot.
Speaker 9 (35:43):
You know, I'll end up on a property and someone
will pair it certain concepts that they get off a
YouTube or from other professionals or other influencers, and it's
good information, but you don't really ever understand what's applicable
to your situation. Until you either age, try to apply
it or be experience a situation where it's necessary. Right,
(36:05):
So you can soak up a lot of information, but
until you actually go out and get some experience invest
the time in it, you don't really know what's going
to work for your situation or not. So again, a
lot of that is learning through failure, and failure is
the best teacher, right. We hear that all the time,
You've heard it since we were little kids.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Failures.
Speaker 9 (36:21):
You know, I just came from a client property and
we were talking about random scenarios, and you know, one
of the scenarios we were discussing was injuring a deer. Right, Like,
you make a bad shot on a deer. If you're
a good hunter or you know, good or great doesn't matter,
but if you're a moral, responsible hunter, you should feel
really bad if you make a bad shot on deer.
(36:43):
It's inevitably going to happen to anyone who bohunts, right,
But that pain sticks with you a long time, and
the next time that opportunity comes up where it's a
marginal shot, you're either a going to have practiced a
lot more with your bow through the off season and
be more confident to make that shot, or b you're
just not going to take that shot, right. That's a
result of that experience or that pain that came with
(37:04):
a prior failure. So I think that there's a lot,
like I said, a lot that comes with those failures
in general.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
But it's not that straightforward. You have to live it.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
You can't just jump. You know.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
One of the things I say frequently too.
Speaker 9 (37:19):
You know, you said your goal is high, but think
about climbing a set of stairs or climbing a ladder
to get there, because you can't just jump straight up
and obtain that goal. And if you can, maybe you
can hang on for a short period of time, but
it's not sustainable, right, So you have to work your
way up to achieve that level of greatness.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Any any one like a one liner for someone to
go from good to grade to remember as it's October
or November and they're like, man, I remember when Thomas said,
remember this?
Speaker 9 (37:44):
I mean the thing that I say, I repeat it
quite a bit to clients. And I guess the reason
I do this is because I do have a lot
of clients that are good hunters. You know, a lot
of clients are good hunters, but they're looking to take
it to that next level. And again, like I said previously,
you cannot kill great.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Deer if you kill good deer.
Speaker 9 (38:03):
So if you're always going out and settling for a
certain age class of deer, you're either a not letting
those deer mature. Or if there are older age classes
or higher quality of deer, higher caliber of deer in
the area on the property, then you're not doing things
to give yourself an opportunity to kill those deer because
you're settling for the other deer. And that might be
(38:25):
you know, again, there's a variety of ways that you
can accomplish that. It might be through habitat improvement, through
manipulating movement on your property to increase opportunity. It might
be just that patience factor, right, holding off for it,
or just being a better hunter.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Right.
Speaker 9 (38:41):
I mean, it's a lot easier to kill a three
year old deer than it is to kill a six
year old deer. So a lot of people are going
to settle for a three year old deer versus waiting
out for a six year old deer.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Now, every situation is different.
Speaker 9 (38:54):
I might have a busy life, family at home and
I have a very small amount time to hunt, so
I need to go out and capitalize on that opportunity.
No one's here, at least I'm not here to judge
that person, right, But if you're constantly killing that quality
of deer, that caliber of deer, you're never going to
achieve the next level unless it's bite pure luck. So
you know, incrementally gaining confidence, incrementally gaining skills, all those
(39:18):
things come with repetition and experience, time invested into the process,
and learning through both failures and success along the way.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Thomas is a guy that continues to get better every year,
it seems like. And that's his perspective. And last, but
not least, we have wire to hunt. Resident post Mark
Kenyon on his opinion for this question. Okay, you're having
a lot of good seasons, just good, good, God man,
I feel like I'm getting one percent better. But I
want to make a big jump. I want to become great.
(39:50):
I want to start killing my target buck. I want
to start stao stepping this progression of a white tail
deer hunter, a serious whitetail deer hunter. What do you
think keeps most hunters at good versus great?
Speaker 10 (40:07):
There's as you were asking that question, I had like
three or four different things all pop off my mind.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
There's so many different things that can.
Speaker 10 (40:15):
Be that like barrier to breaking through the threshold, I
think one of the obvious ones.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
But it's like, it's not sexy, and it's something that
so many people.
Speaker 10 (40:25):
Talk about over and over and over again that maybe
it becomes annoying or you lose out you stopped hearing
it because it's been said so many times.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
But truly, when I made the shift from.
Speaker 10 (40:38):
You know, kind of just like coasting until actually focusing
on all of the little things, like when you really
become detail oriented, when you really are willing to not
take shortcuts, when you are really willing to start caring
about all the little things, those small improvements all steck
up in a really, really really big way and eventually
(40:59):
to killing becoming great. Like That's that's the unsexy answer,
is that it's not any one thing. It's taking everything serious.
It's doing all the little things right. It's putting in
that work throughout the entire year or as much of
the year as you possibly can. That is the stuff
that all adds up. But it's it's you know, when
somebody hears that. It's hard to just be like, Okay,
(41:21):
I'm gonna press that button and all of a sudden
that's gonna work.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Right. That doesn't do it.
Speaker 10 (41:24):
There's not an easy button, there's not a silver bullet.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
But I do think that's the case.
Speaker 10 (41:29):
Now, there are other like shifts or like mindset shifts
that can really help. Like something we talked about the
other day that really helped me was really looking at
the year as a full calendar and how everything changes
on a day to date basis, and how you need
to change your hunting season throughout to follow along with that.
So it's having like a calendar for your year and
really thinking about how you hunt differently at every time
(41:51):
of the year, and how you apply pressure to your
property at different times of the year. All that really helps.
That helps me a lot. I think another thing that
really could actually change somebody's success in a dramatic way,
and interestingly would not even require them to become a
better hunter, but could change their success would be simply
(42:12):
get more access if you had more places to hunt.
And so much of what people have success, like the
deer they kill, is determined by the properties.
Speaker 4 (42:23):
They hunt, the places that they hunt.
Speaker 10 (42:25):
There are and I don't mean this to offend anyone,
but there are a lot of people with a ton
of big deer in the wall that are much worse hunters,
worse quote unquote hunters then people who have way fewer
deer on the wall. Simply the only difference is where
they hunt. One person hunts in one state, one person
huntsing the other. Or one person has a thousand acre
(42:46):
family farm and one person's been trying to scrap together
tens and thirties and forties by door knocking. That can
make a huge difference, a monstrous difference. So that alone,
if you simply put in time to get access to
new places in more places, that could totally change your trajectory.
And honestly, that's a big part of my story in
that when I started, I started deer hunting a forty
(43:09):
acre piece in northern Michigan that was surrounded by public
and that's all I knew for years up until my
late teens. That's what I did. And there was four
keys and six pointers and a year and a half folds.
If you saw a two year old, it was the
biggest buck anyone'd seen in three years. So growing up
with that context and with that opportunity set, the success
I could have was incredibly limited. And by being stuck
(43:32):
in that box, not only was my opportunities to kill
deer limited, but also my opportunities to learn were limited.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
And so that's that's this other thing.
Speaker 10 (43:41):
If you add new access, if you get new permissions,
or you scout me public land, or you buy a
farm or whatever it is, you do two things. Number One,
you increase your opportunities because you might have a better
place now and right there, like instantly, all of a sudden,
you're a better hunter because you have deer to hunt,
or bigger deer to hunt, or older deer to hunt.
But then by hunting new places, that is one of
(44:03):
the absolute fastest ways to learn and to get better.
And so you're achieving two things in the same single decision.
You are increasing your opportunities and instantly having new learning opportunities.
That's going to help you become a better and better
and better heart. So I think if you do that
while also having this commitment to doing the things, the
(44:24):
little things right, if you do those two things, you
have a strong opportunity to move up towards a great hunter.
Those are the first two things that can online. I
think there's a thousand different things we could talk about.
I'm sure there's people who said something like, wow, you're
not gonna be a great hunter if you shoot good deer,
or there's gonna be people who say, you know, I
don't know. There's a thousand different ways you could take this,
(44:44):
and I'm very interested to hear what everybody else said.
But I think those two things in tandem could make
could break people through the glass ceiling, take to the
nuxt level. Very simple and not like profound, I guess,
but those two things could absolutely change the success that
anybody's having.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah, that's and that was another reason I asked this
question because there's a lot of different answers, and once again,
it could be dependent on all the different things that
every white tail hunter faces, whether it's access challenges or
I mean, the list goes on and on if you
want to go from good to great. And I think
that people inherently just want to get better, and so
(45:26):
maybe the goal here was is that what's one little
thing that I could just get a little better at
to get Maybe I'm just okay, maybe I'm really bad,
and I want to be okay and good and stare
step it up. But this was there was a wide
variety of answers, and I think if someone's listening into
this once again, it's applying number one, being real with
yourself and number two is it am I disciplined? Am
(45:48):
I putting in the effort? Because I think it's easy
to say, well, I could kill those deer if I
had the same access, And I think, well, if that's
the case, and you aspire for those goals, then you
have to do things in order to have those opportunities.
And they're probably right. If they didn't have the opportunity
to hunt here like that, I think they would be successful.
And I think that's uh, you know, we're here in
(46:09):
Iowa right now, and last night we were have people
move here because they're so ate up with this to
have an opportunity to have a great deal. And I
think that, you know, I think the what is great,
what is a great deal, and what is a great
hunter might be completely different. Maybe a great hunter means
that you introduced twenty new people to hunting, and you
(46:30):
were a great mentor and you taught them a lot
of great things. And then twenty years later, all those
twenty great hunters, we turn into great hunters. And so
I think there's a lot of really interesting ways to
look at this, and hopefully this is inspiring everyone to
challenge themselves just to get a little bit better this fall,
take mental notes and discontinuing to enjoy this season and
(46:51):
not have any added pressure. Next week, we're diving into
something that people are in panic mode. We're getting into
mid August. Now. They listen to the first episode, they
hung their cameras and they're like, man, I don't have
any deer on camera, and we're going to dive into
what to do when you haven't found a deer yet.
There you guys have I hope you guys enjoyed this
episode and maybe it opened your eyes, maybe you took
(47:14):
a quick look in the mirror. I know I did.
It's like, man, I can definitely do better at some
of these things. And that's the purpose of this episode
to find the things that make folks that seemingly have
great seasons every single year. What are they doing differently
and how can I emulate that? And maybe that's doing more,
maybe that's doing less. It just completely depends on what
your circumstances are, and next week we have the next dilemma.
(47:35):
More than likely there's been a big buck pictures floating
around and the question is I can't find a buck
to hunt now what? So that's what we have next week.
I hope you guys tune in for another round of
this expert panel as we're getting closer and closer to
deer season, and each week we're going to keep chipping
away at some of these issues, some of these dilemmas
that we all face as we're building up to deer seasons.
(47:56):
So we'll see it
People are their own worst enemy in that they're harvesting
that year that they want just a year or two
too early. So I would say the biggest thing you
could do to go from that good to great category
is be much more selective on what you're harvesting.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
We are back with another episode of Back forty Podcasts,
brought to you by land dot com, the leading online
real estate marketplace to find your perfect rural, recreational, agricultural,
or hunting properties here in the US. And this week
we're diving into another topic. We all want to get
better every season. We want to just incrementally get a
little better. And this is rooted to get the expert
(00:37):
panels to share something that maybe you're going to overlook
this season unless you listen to this episode. And it's
the biggest mistake hunters make from being good to great.
And each guest has a different little take a different
perspective on this. And I think that by the time
you listen to this year, you're going to be able
to take eight different things more than likely to have
your season hopefully go a little bit better. And I
(01:00):
often wonder you're finding success. You're you know, you're shooting
good deer having good luck and he just wanted to
get better. We're ready to dive into our expert panels
without further ado. Let's get into the earning question and
whytail dilemma for this week on back forty. First off,
we have Jeff Sturgist to share what he believes keeps
(01:22):
good hunters from being great. Here we go.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
You know, and I could see once you hit that
private land set up, it's more in maintenance mode. Your
public land hunting is scouting and verifying. There's some things
you look at there. But I really feel like that
to be a part of that five percent club less
is more. I think one of the things that you
can buck tradition on is in not fall for a
(01:47):
lot of honisms out there, and one of the big
ones that has kept a lot of people back that
has been a quote tried and true huntism for decades
and decades is you can't kill him from the couch
and firm believe. I wrote an article a long time
ago and it was about you know, I had I
think I was flanked by a couple one hundred and
sixty five hundred and seventy inch bucks that shot the
(02:08):
year before by sitting, you know, one time for you know,
six times for per buck, something like that, seven times
per buck. But the point is that you can kill
them from the couch, and you do that by being patient.
And so there's one way to look at it is
you have this select spot on public land, it's a
(02:30):
little island to go in and hunt. There's a certain
mature buck there. It's almost like you have to beat
everybody in there and that, and there's truth to that,
And I'm not saying there's not certain really high pressure
situations where you're competing with neighbors almost and you want
to get in and shoot the certain box. You're going
to go, throw all cautions to the wind. You're going
to that best spot. I don't choose to hunt those areas.
(02:54):
If it's high competition like that, likely there's not a
mature buck there to begin with. If there's that many
people hunting it in that location. I'd rather go to
a spot that had fewer deer, maybe less sign even
in some of those areas out in Ohio public Land
that I've hunted than the shawnee. I'd rather go in
an hour and not see anybody than go in twenty minutes.
(03:16):
And have tons of sign and see a lot of
people knowing the mature boxer three quarters a mile away.
So I like going to those areas where those there's
not that pressure anyways. But then once you find those areas,
being more of a tactician using the weather is critical
to me. And unfortunately, there's a lot of movement studies
out there, scientific movement studies that'll show that, well, deer
(03:37):
just move consistently in the morning in the afternoon. I
like to look at in terms of extremes, for example,
a blizzard. If there's a blizzard, deer aren't moving. They
might move right before, they'll move when it breaks, but
when the blizzard's coming down, they're in a heidi hole somewhere.
Not they don't get up and brows, but they're not
moving long movements. Same with thunderstorm, high winds forty to
(03:59):
fifty miles sixty million hour winds now. Maybe that's normal
out in your area in the plane state somewhere, but
typically it's not and it suppresses deer movement. And so
if you look at the combination of all those things,
severe heat, even severe cold, sometimes deer won't move in
the morning hours when it's negative twenty, but as soon
as it warms up to plus fifteen at eleven o'clock
(04:21):
in the morning, they're on their feet because they're conserving
energy when it's cold, and they can expend more energy
and conserve it at the same time while they're eating
when it's a little bit warmer.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
We'll put all.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Those factors together, temperature change, extremes of temperature, extremes of winds,
extremes of weather, and it's obvious that your movement is
suppressed when there are at extremities. So if you take
those into an account and you look at the weather,
to me, you can predict when there's going to be
(04:51):
decent times to hunt when there's not. Now, maybe you
just have to hunt on the weekends. There's nothing you
can do about it.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
But even then you can.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Make wise choices on stand selection and save your best stands,
not for your first set, for when the conditions of
the weather are optimum during that weekend. Said, maybe you
have a three day weekend and your boss will let
you take a Friday instead of a Monday, and you
can let him know at the last minute, hey, I'm
gonna take Friday off instead of Monday because that's the
(05:19):
way the weather's slanting, so by the time you're putting yourself.
I shot a lot of bucks on a common lease
I shared with a friend of mine. I shot twice
as many bucks as he did, and it was really more.
He was a really good hunter. He shot a lot
of amazing bucks. Two hundred and some engine Kansas for example.
He shot some monsters. But on that lease that we shared,
(05:42):
I would let him pick his stand first out of
the seventeen, and I'd pick what was left over. I
always search for not our favorite stand, not even both
the best stand, but the stand that had the least
amount of pressure. And so I'd look at an area
that I thought we hadn't pressured for two or three weeks,
little hight hidden corner. And your favorite stand should always
(06:04):
be the next stand you shoot a buck out of,
not the last. And so if you hold true to
some of your favorites, yeah they'll pay off here and there.
But if you want to be in that five percent
club shoot bucks eighty percent of the time your target bucks,
then you have to do things a little bit different.
And oftentimes that is on that property. Over that same
(06:24):
year period of time, I shot seventeen bucks out of
fourteen stands. I think he shot nine bucks out of
two stands and eight out of one stand. And it
was because he loved that horse we called the thorstbasher stand,
and he loved going to it, and that was just
vacation though you like going to it. He'd sit there
doggedly and he loved that stand, and oh that was
(06:44):
fine too. But those are some of the things I
think that take to be a little bit different.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
There you have it. That's what Jeff has to say.
I think fallen into hunting isms that can often be
a trap, and you have to blaze your own path
and figure out what works for you. And obviously it's
worked for Jeff over the years. Next we have Don Higgins.
Here's what he has to say. This is the biggest
mistake from good hunters to great hunters. What is it?
That's easy?
Speaker 5 (07:10):
I think that there's a lot of deer hunters out
there that are very good at what they do, and
they have got so good and so proficient at killing
middle aged bucks like this called middle aged bucks, that
they cannot change what they're doing to kill the next
class of bucks. They're so stuck in their ways. You know,
(07:32):
this has worked for me in the past. I just
need to keep doing it and eventually I will kill older,
bigger bucks. Well, older bigger bucks require a different set
of rules. And I think that there's a lot of
guys that have become so successful at killing three and
four year old bucks that they just can't break those
habits and habits that they've got to break if they
(07:53):
want to consistently shoot five, six, seven, eight year old
whatever older bucks, because they're totally an animal. They played
by a totally different set of rules, and the hunter's
got to play by a different set of rules. And
I can't tell you countless hunters that I consider good
hunters will never become great hunters because they just can't
(08:14):
quit doing things that have worked on lesser bucks.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
How often do you have that conversation with someone that
sends you an email, reaches out, runs into you at
a trade show or speaking event. They're like, don I
feel like I'm here, but I really want to get here?
And then what's the reaction he say, well, you gotta
stop shooting good bucks? Are they do? They say? Good point,
I agree or no, I need to find different spot
because I need to go find the great opportunities and
(08:39):
keep my pattern.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
Yeah, and you know another thing is I can tell
if a guy's never going to be a great hunter,
he's gonna be running down great hunters. He's going to
be making excuses. But for why does that guy always
shoot giants? Well, he he's got lots of money, and
he leases all this ground, he owns this great property.
(09:01):
And or in my case, they'll say he turns loose pennies.
You know, they've always got an excuse for why the
other guy's doing it and why they aren't. If a
guy's making excuses, he's never going to be a great hunter.
I say that you've got a choice in life. And
it's not just with deer hunting. It's with a lot
of things. You can make excuses or you can find solutions.
(09:24):
And there's too many guys out there making excuses for
other people instead of finding solutions to their own issues.
And maybe it's the place they're hunting. Maybe they need
to spend more effort, Maybe they need to go out
of state, you know, maybe they're stuck in a state
like Michigan where there are no bucks the caliber they
want to shoot. They need to spend their effort on
finding places in other states, you know, like Iowa, Illinois, Ohio,
(09:48):
come to the Midwest where those giants exist, and even
at that, it might take years to find the right property,
the right situation. But you can make excuses why somebody
else is successful and you're not, or you can find
solutions to your own situation. And that separates good hunters
from great hunters.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
That's Don's take here on this. And I think there's
a lot of really good hunters and you heard it
from him. What kind of separates the pack, for lack
of a better way to say it, from being good
to great? And that's his perspective, and next step we
have skipsly on his take. What do you think is
the biggest mistake hunters make from being good to great?
They've killed noe on a five year period. They're shooting
(10:30):
some good bucks, and it's human nature. People want to
do better, constantly improved, and so wherever they're at in
the country and whatever their standards are, they would identify
as good, but they want to be great. What's the
mistake that maybe's holding the.
Speaker 6 (10:42):
Back trigger management and discipline. I would say most people
can't do it well. I've shot one sixties that are
five year olds, and I really do want to shoot
a giant buck. Okay, then that means that next time
there's maybe a one sixty or one seventy that's five
(11:05):
that walks by you. You know, as long as you knew,
like there is some bigger deer in the area, or
he could you know, maybe I'll hunt him next year,
you can let him go, And a lot of times
that's what That's how I'll get a lot of the
deer I've got over the years. It's like that deer was,
you know, one sixty five with a kicker at five
(11:26):
years old, and I'm like, now, let's just see what
happens with him. Well, a lot of guys can't let
that deer go. Well, it's kind of it's kind of statistics.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
If your goal.
Speaker 6 (11:39):
Was to shoot a three year old, for example, you're
almost always going to shoot a three year old, because
for every five year old you see usually my like
loose math, I'm making this up, but I might have
to pass fifteen three year olds before I get a
chance at a five year old. It could be math
like that, very simple. So if my goal was a
(12:01):
three year old, the chance of getting a five year old,
so minimal because I'm going to tag out, I'm gonna
shoot a three year old, and I'm gonna get so
many more opportunities to those. Well, if my goal was
I do want to shoot a giant and I know
he's in the area, he's there's a one ninety that's
six or seven years old, and there's also a couple
five year olds in there, and some four year olds
that are you know, one hundred and sixty hundred and seventy.
(12:24):
You can't shoot those, and you probably will get a
chance those those lesser bucks, And if you can't hold yourself,
you know, discipline yourself, you're gonna end up shooting those
and not get the giant one. And then the other
thing where I see going from good to great is
folks don't understand how many different items in hunting habitat
(12:47):
down the list. It depends what level you take it,
how many different eyes to dot and tease, it to cross,
how many different mistakes you can make, and how many
how many different things you need to do, you know,
to shoot great bucks too. May if you're in the habitat,
I could be like, here's a list of twenty things
that you have to do or ten or five or whatever.
(13:08):
It's a long list though, And it's the same with hunting.
There's all these things. When you get to that kind
of like top level stuff that you know, there's so
many eyes to dot and teas to cross.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
It's crazy.
Speaker 6 (13:19):
And usually when guys are like, I have a giant farm,
money is not an object, and I don't have good
results and I'm a good hunter. You start going through
and you're like, dude, you've got a list on habitat
hunting techniques, how much you hunt. That's like one hundred
items long. If you really start going through it all
(13:39):
and say it, say it was twenty items long, and
it's it's actually longer than that, but say it's twenty
and you go through it with anybody that's like, I'm
not satisfied with the results. I'm just I'm not shooting
giants like people would think I should be. I don't
want to admit this to anybody, and I have these
conversations quite often. I don't want to publicly that I'm
(14:00):
I'm very disappointed in my farm. They're missing all these things,
all these common mistakes that I see it all the
time that they need to fix, and it's if you
want to do it, it's a it's a lot of work.
People do not understand how much work and how many
different things go into doing it, you know, at the
(14:23):
top level. And so a lot of people will say, well,
then I don't want to do it at the top level,
and that's fine. That's that's the majority of people, right,
And I totally understand that. But it is it's a
lot of time and it's a lot of dedication, you know.
On the other side, that too, it's not as much
as is what people think. I mean, it's a lot
(14:44):
of time and effort. But the same people are like, well,
I can't do all that stuff. It's like, how much
time do you waste on other stuff? Really, how much
time do you do you blow on watching TV and
sitting on your phone? Take out your phone, go look
go the settings and to go to screen time and
look at how much time did I waste on all
(15:06):
these things? Hey, I could have been doing all these
things for hunting. If that's what you wanted, I want
to shoot a giant buck, Maybe your time should be
utilized to that stuff. And I'm not saying that's the
most important thing hunting if it's not the most important
thing in my life, but if I want to be
good at it, and it's like something, hey, I do
want to be really good at it.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It's just going to take a lot of time.
Speaker 6 (15:27):
And there's a lot of details to this stuff, a
lot of details, and that only comes, you know, figuring
some of those details out.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Well, what are those details? How do I do them?
Speaker 6 (15:37):
It just takes time that you naturally acquire some every
year as you grow as a hunter. I mean, you
could say I was a good hunter at twenty five,
and I was probably good hunter, but the amount of
things I didn't know at twenty five that I know
now is astounding, And the things I'll probably know in
ten years versus today will probably be substantially different. I'm
(15:59):
constantly trying new things, learning new things, being like old self.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
You did some really dumb things. Let's fix this, let's
try new things.
Speaker 6 (16:07):
You know, good hunters are constantly evolving and learning new
things and admitting that they don't have it all figured out.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
After listening to that, you probably realize there's a lot
of different things that go into being a great hunter,
whether it's managing your ground properly, how often you hunt it?
All the things that he said, and I couldn't agree more.
And as you're going through the season, I think you
have to ask yourself those questions and make sure that
you're doing the right thing at the right time. And
if you screw up, that's okay, keep note of it
and try not to make the same mistake twice. Next
up we have Steve Hanson. Here we go. What do
(16:37):
you think is the biggest mistake hunters make from being
good to great? There's a lot of good hunters out there.
With all the tools we have, I feel the bar
of good hasn't gotten lower, but people have gotten more proficient, sure,
And I think a lot of people obviously want to
get better. Everyone wants to get better every year, right,
So what are some things that you think or what's
one thing that keeps guys from being good to them
(16:58):
getting up to the next level of being proficient or
being more efficient? With proficient and efficient.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Sure is, you know, if someone's looking at they're judging
this by the calibler of deer that they're harvesting, so
they're wanting to go from good deer to great deer.
Ninety percent of the time, I would say people are
their own worst enemy in that they're harvesting that deer
that they want just a year or two too early.
(17:27):
So I would say the biggest thing you could do
to go from that good to great category is be
much more selective on what you're harvesting, because obviously those
deer live on the property you're hunting. You figured them
out enough if you pass them up at you know,
if your goal is a one seventy and you shoot
this one at one fifty five, well that was most
likely you're one seventy one year, one year down the road.
(17:49):
So I would say that would be you know, being
able to judge deer and pass deear up is probably
going to be the biggest thing, biggest difference I know
of the guys that truly kill high end deer every
year and the ones that always want to and seem,
you know, to be a year behind so to speak.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, so you think trigger discipline is the biggest That
would be the biggest thing that I see for sure.
So what about for the guy that once goes first
pope and young buck that yeah, you know again, I
think of like Pennsylvania, Michigan or Ohio, where right, you know,
like the each state in each area has a different
ceiling or potential ceiling.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I would say, you know, if if your goal is
is that and that is something you haven't attained up
to that point, you've got a one hundred percent focus
on hunting where they are, if they're If a poping
young deer is a rare deer in your neighborhood, then
move to where one is, go scout more, find one,
but don't invest your time hunting where what you're after
(18:45):
isn't you know, If there's not one there, you can't
get them. I don't care how good of a shot
you are. I don't care how many hours you put
in the stand. So at that point, if your goal
is to up your game to whatever the next level is,
make sure that that target animal exists where you're you know,
and then devote more time to If you don't have one,
devote more time to scouting than hunting, even if it
(19:06):
means you've got a scout during the hunting season. You know,
I see way too many people that just pile into
a stand and sit there all day because they're hunting,
you know what I mean? Where I would rather say, hey,
I don't even have a buck to hunt. It's October
twenty eighth, it's nice and cold out, but they've just
harvested all this corn. I'm going to drive around tonight
in glass. I'm gonna see if I can find one.
Then I find one, then I'm back in the game again.
(19:26):
But if you don't have one to hunt, just randomly
sitting in a stand a lot of days may not
pay off.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, there's Steve's take on this white tail pondering question.
Next up we have Bill Winki. Here we go. This
is the biggest mistake hunters make from being good to great.
So they have some success, and you know, this panel
of experts, they aspire to be as efficient or as
(19:53):
successful as everyone that I'm interviewing for this series. What
are you doing different than a good hunter?
Speaker 7 (19:58):
I'll just hunt better spots usually, you know. And I think, gosh,
I learned an article Conbucon's volting back is a long
long ago, and I said, I bet you if we
if we took the best deer hunter in the United States,
it'd be somebody who hunts public land in Pennsylvania or
(20:20):
Michigan or somewhere like that. In the shooting two and
a half year old bucks every year. That that guy
you're trying to loose in some spots that I get on,
he's probably gonna be at least as successful as war
than what I am. So that the real game is
the diligence and the time and the commitment to find
(20:42):
in those bucks to hunt in the first place. And
you know, that's really what it boils down too. There's
there's almost because the skills involved. Everybody can learn those.
If you can learn, you know, the stuff we've been
talking about serious so far on entry, how to be
bullet grew, you know how to shoot your bowl really well,
(21:03):
you know how to play the win. A lot of
that stuff guys can figure out after a few years
of money. But what they don't have is two or
three big mature bucks gone. And that's what it comes
down to. It's a simple answer. And so the best
hunters are the ones who are the best at money.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
It's been fun for me because that that answer has
been somewhat similar. Of the guys that are have a
lot of nets out are the ones that are actually
the best hunters. They don't say they have some magic
superpower of making a big deer show up in front
of them within their bow bow range. And that's it.
Speaker 7 (21:40):
That's I've kind of resolved myself to that back because
you look around and see that these guys kill them
two or each year, every other year or whatever. It's
like the commitment required to do that something that I'm
not really to make, you know, because for one reason
or another, they have the money, the energyar or whatever
is to make that happen. Nothing against their hunting skills.
(22:04):
I'm sure they're good hunters to but probably not really
that much better hunters than a lot of people. They
just are really good at finding these big deer. And
that's that's. That's the hunt before the hunt. If you
have to pick the which of those two hunts is
the most important, it's the first one.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I think Bill has a really fair point on his
take here. You have to be realistic with your own work, schedule,
your own lifestyle, your own obligations, where you hunt, what
opportunities are there. And I think that's a very real
way to look at it and put it. So I
appreciate Bill chiming in and giving his opinion. And the
next step we have, Bobby Kendall. Here we go.
Speaker 8 (22:42):
I think that the number one thing that could take
somebody from a good hunter to a great hunter is
the ability to think like a deer all throughout the year.
No matter what you're doing, you're always thinking from the
deer's perspective of what it is you're doing, and you
need to use use that information against him. So some
examples like it's it's so easy to watch videos nowadays
(23:06):
and learn to do all this stuff, use all these
tools in our our in our tool belt, you know,
switch grass and corn and all the different stuff you're planning,
and it's it's easy to go out there and and
and just throw it all out there. But if you
step back, there has to be a strategy behind it.
There has to be Do I have a plan for
(23:27):
this food to work in October? Do I have a
plan for this food to work in the summer? Do
I have a plan for it to work in November?
Do I have a plan for it to work in
late season? Is it put out there in a way
that I'm going to get a shot and a bow
shot it fish quickly and efficiently. Because I'm playing the
(23:47):
odds game, he only might walk some many days in October.
I have to be able to get in there does
this location pull my thermals as well as the wind direction,
so I don't get screwed in October, you know, am
I do? I use a cent free box here because
it's an October spot to hedge against swirling winds and
and and you know, all that stuff in the month
(24:10):
of October because this is probably where he's going to
be in October, because he's going to be market territory.
So I can see him wanting to come down that line.
So I'm gonna eliminate those scrape branches so he has
to come here. Like always thinking reverse engineering everything from
the way that a big deer thinks all the way
to when you're picking your tree stand locations. I think
(24:34):
good hunters can identify the spots and they can plant
the stuff, but they when it comes time to picking
what stand to be at that day, they're not thinking,
like a deer, well where is he going to be
today because of the wind direction and he's using his
nose to look for doze or you know. Uh, as
(24:55):
you get into the end of October and into November,
there's all these micro phases or date phase mindset, there's
all these mindset shifts, and so when you have the
ability to think like a deer and be ahead of them,
you know, Like I call October twenty eighth boomerang phase,
and I think it's a little phase that happens where
all these mature bucks kind of have their territory that
(25:17):
they're marking, and then right around the twenty eighth you'll
see them boomeranging out of their core and overlapping into
other deer within the same age class. And so if
you know that, you can be like, well, I haven't
got his picture here, but you know, it makes sense
that he's going to show up here now because we're.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
At that phase.
Speaker 8 (25:34):
And as these faces change, you're ahead of it because
some of them are so short window like that, that's
a fairly short window before his mindset changes to territory
marking to actually does.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
So what I'm hearing is seems almost more instinctual.
Speaker 8 (25:54):
Yeah, it's instinctual, but it's like also like.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Common sense, like, but most people don't think that way.
Speaker 8 (25:58):
Yeah. I think if you take a step back and
maybe we do a podcast on this and think and
just like dive into the mindset of a buck through
the deer.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Season, if you're behind.
Speaker 8 (26:10):
I've heard people say, you know, if you're if you're
doing what you see on the trail came a week
ago or two weeks ago, especially in November stuff, you're
too late, it's already happened, which is right, But on
the flip side of that, you need to know where
to be ahead of him as we change, you know,
so the season almost very systematic. Like for me anyway,
(26:30):
like I have a plan and it's like I don't
even care it's today and now I'm gonna be doing
this type thing, Like it's November twenty eight. Their mindset is,
oh my god, I just lost, you know, however much weight,
and I'm about to die because it's getting really cold
tomorrow like that, November twenty is my date. Like that's
when their mindset kind of changes. So, you know, I like,
(26:55):
I feel there's something about wet standing soybeans in October,
Like it might be one of they're less desirable food sources,
but on a really rainy, soaker of a day, you
might have every deer on your farm in in October.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So it's like thinking, like a deer which is a
really hot tip. That's a really hot tip. Oh yeah,
that happened right down the road here, it's a really
hot tip. Yeah, happen right down the road here. So
I mean to summarize, it's it's a good good from great.
Speaker 8 (27:24):
A deer and not just doing all this stuff we
all do now, like there's you know, you might go
to you might knock that out.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I'm right or wrong.
Speaker 8 (27:34):
Everybody does it different, but like you might come out
to my place and see how it's set up and
be like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. But in my mind,
like I mean, it's everything is done to like to
an exact for an exact reason. But yeah, just thinking
like a deer and having a plan for the whole
season and then using his mindset against him, you know,
(27:55):
instead of like we have a logging division obviously, instead
of just and it's all situational because as I'm saying this,
this is the south facing hillside that we log the
heck out of, But it's because of some strategic things
we got going on down here that makes it so huntable.
You don't need to go up in there. But if
you've got a big wooded farm and you can't do
a bunch of food, maybe further east or something Kentucky
(28:18):
instead of just clear cutting the whole farm. Maybe you
select cut it, but you take areas, go scout, see
where the deer are already betting on whatever knobs, Identify
a tree for that wind relative to the betting area
somewhere you can kind of get in there and then
stand there in the beds and look up at the
(28:39):
sky and south sky, and just mark those trees and
just open the light in to puff on that betting spot.
And then when that thickens and the rest of it's
not thick and he goes looking for does, now you
have connect the dots. So now when he goes and
he's looking for does, when he goes to that thicket
(29:01):
that's only a tenth of an acre, he's not gonna walk.
Before he could just cruise by fifty yards down the
hill because it was easier walking and just look over there.
But now when he gets there, or if there's even
like when I'm picking a tree a stand spot, like
if there's a tree top that naturally fell down, I
might get down into that tree top, even though it
(29:22):
might make more sense to be in a tree right
over here, because in the rut, when he goes there,
he's gonna come on this side of that tree that
he can't see into to smell for dough, and same
thing on those little thickets. So you got these connected dots,
and when he goes, he's most likely going to be
on the down side of that little thicket so he
can smell in it. And you've already reversed engineer by
(29:42):
the way he's thinking. So back to the original question,
is always thinking like a deer, always reverse engineering, whether
you're hunting ground that you cannot do any manipulation and
you're just you versus him and you're scouting and you know,
I still love doing that, or if you're go crazy
over the top with development, it still works most efficiently
(30:05):
when it's reverse engineer from the way a big deer
is going to use it in a way that you
have a plan for the whole season.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
That's Bobby's opinion on this question. Appreciate him sharing it,
and we have up next Thomas Mills Nutt. So, what
do you think is the biggest mistake that keeps hunters
from going from good to great? In your own opinion?
Speaker 9 (30:27):
Yeah, there could be a lot of things, right, and
like you said, you have to define your own success
so that ultimately might dictate what that thing is, but
on a general skill from my experience what I see
across the board, and something I constantly preach and coach
to clients. It's all about thinking ahead, right, you know,
planning long term, long term mindset versus all a short term.
(30:51):
One thing I say to clients frequently is you can't
kill great deer if you kill good deer. And that's
kind of this long term thinking, this mindset of right
now isn't as important as what can build to the future. So,
you know, I always say every year's a building year.
I've said that before, right, every year's building year. Ever
years a building year. If you kill all the good dear,
(31:14):
or you just keep on settling for whatever level you're at,
you're never going to achieve the next level, you know.
And again there's a lot of different variations of that.
Sometimes it's pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. It's
really easy to get comfortable hunting the same few stands,
hunting the same way you do, and being content with
a certain level or quality of animals that you're harvesting.
(31:39):
But ultimately, if you approach a season or habitat, project
or land management, whatever, might be thinking every year's a
building year.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Every year's a building year.
Speaker 9 (31:48):
And also don't fall into this pressure where you feel
like you have to just tag that buck and move on.
Then things start to build up and with that patience, right,
we hear that all the time. Impatience is a virtue,
but it's true across the board, from habitat development to
sitting in the tree stand and holding out for that
higher caliber gear. If you have that patience, it doesn't
(32:11):
take that long really for things to build up, to
level up to Now you're operating at this completely different
level and a different mindset, and I think that's what
it takes. You know, it's just that patience in general,
and passing up a mediocre season or a good season. Right.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
I guess it's all relative.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Right.
Speaker 9 (32:26):
I might look at it and say it's mediocre. You
might look at it and say that's a really good
season for you. A few years of that and then
it's time to level up. But being willing to pass
up certain opportunities to level up and with that push
yourself out of the comfort zone, you know, back to
that comfort zone thing. Understanding when to be aggressive is
probably a big part of that. But I think more
(32:48):
than anything else, it's being patient and focusing on the
fact that every year is a building year, especially in
this game, right hunting, We hear us all time, hunting
is conservation. Hunting is conservation. If we want to be conservationists,
that we need to be thinking long term. Right, So
it's not so much that's happening this year. What can
I do to get better this year. I don't have
(33:08):
to fill my tag every year. Long term mindset that
to me shift at my perspective or or maybe increase
my maturity level as a hunter, and I raise my
standards and that just becomes the new normal. Right then
you're just operating at a different level. You know, there's
a lot of different things that go into being a
great hunter, though, right You know, your level of observation,
(33:30):
the time that you put in all of these things
are going to dictate your sess in the long run.
And all of that goes hand in hand with pulling
the trigger too soon. If you if you settle for
something that's less than great, then you're not investing the
time to become great essentially, right, So, you know, settling
for good isn't always the worst thing, but that takes
(33:50):
away from the time invested in becoming great. And you know,
the same goes with shooting a good deer versus a
great deer. Giving that deer time to mature and express
its full potential. That levels you up. So you know,
there's yeah, there's a lot there. It's all relative. You
know what, how do you define a great hunter versus
a good hunter? Again, it's all really relative. But I
really think patience and just thinking long term is the
(34:12):
biggest factor involved.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Do you think it really boils down to the fear
of failure. There's another way to look at that too, Yeah,
very much.
Speaker 9 (34:22):
So you know, I don't know exactly how that quote goes,
but there's never it's not a failure if you learn
from it, right, And I think that's a huge part
of hunting is everything is a learning opportunity at life
in general. Right, you can look at it as a
failure or look at look at it as a learning experience.
So again, making more aggressive moves or being patient. Yeah,
(34:45):
there's going to be seasons. I've certainly had seasons. Not
that long ago, I passed up a one hundred and
what turned out to be one hundred and sixty two
inch nine pointer that had a thirteen inch brow time. Right,
I passed it up because I was after a different deer.
That was a learning experience, right, I've probably I should
have capitalized on that.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
I ate my tag that.
Speaker 9 (35:02):
Year, but I had a really good season and I
ended up learning a whole lot more about the deer
I was chasing, which led to, you know, subsequent years
of success based on that intel that I collected.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
And really again it leveled me up.
Speaker 9 (35:14):
It changed my perspective on how it hunted the property,
which equaled a lot more long term success. That wouldn't
have happened if I would have pulled the trigger and
killed that deer and tagged out when I had the opportunity.
So it really does come back to that patient side
of things, you know, and again thinking long term.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Do you think there's any shortcut to becoming great?
Speaker 4 (35:34):
No, No, there isn't.
Speaker 9 (35:37):
I mean, in this digital age, this information age.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
I see this a lot.
Speaker 9 (35:43):
You know, I'll end up on a property and someone
will pair it certain concepts that they get off a
YouTube or from other professionals or other influencers, and it's
good information, but you don't really ever understand what's applicable
to your situation. Until you either age, try to apply
it or be experience a situation where it's necessary. Right,
(36:05):
So you can soak up a lot of information, but
until you actually go out and get some experience invest
the time in it, you don't really know what's going
to work for your situation or not. So again, a
lot of that is learning through failure, and failure is
the best teacher, right. We hear that all the time,
You've heard it since we were little kids.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Failures.
Speaker 9 (36:21):
You know, I just came from a client property and
we were talking about random scenarios, and you know, one
of the scenarios we were discussing was injuring a deer. Right, Like,
you make a bad shot on a deer. If you're
a good hunter or you know, good or great doesn't matter,
but if you're a moral, responsible hunter, you should feel
really bad if you make a bad shot on deer.
(36:43):
It's inevitably going to happen to anyone who bohunts, right,
But that pain sticks with you a long time, and
the next time that opportunity comes up where it's a
marginal shot, you're either a going to have practiced a
lot more with your bow through the off season and
be more confident to make that shot, or b you're
just not going to take that shot, right. That's a
result of that experience or that pain that came with
(37:04):
a prior failure. So I think that there's a lot,
like I said, a lot that comes with those failures
in general.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
But it's not that straightforward. You have to live it.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
You can't just jump. You know.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
One of the things I say frequently too.
Speaker 9 (37:19):
You know, you said your goal is high, but think
about climbing a set of stairs or climbing a ladder
to get there, because you can't just jump straight up
and obtain that goal. And if you can, maybe you
can hang on for a short period of time, but
it's not sustainable, right, So you have to work your
way up to achieve that level of greatness.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Any any one like a one liner for someone to
go from good to grade to remember as it's October
or November and they're like, man, I remember when Thomas said,
remember this?
Speaker 9 (37:44):
I mean the thing that I say, I repeat it
quite a bit to clients. And I guess the reason
I do this is because I do have a lot
of clients that are good hunters. You know, a lot
of clients are good hunters, but they're looking to take
it to that next level. And again, like I said previously,
you cannot kill great.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Deer if you kill good deer.
Speaker 9 (38:03):
So if you're always going out and settling for a
certain age class of deer, you're either a not letting
those deer mature. Or if there are older age classes
or higher quality of deer, higher caliber of deer in
the area on the property, then you're not doing things
to give yourself an opportunity to kill those deer because
you're settling for the other deer. And that might be
(38:25):
you know, again, there's a variety of ways that you
can accomplish that. It might be through habitat improvement, through
manipulating movement on your property to increase opportunity. It might
be just that patience factor, right, holding off for it,
or just being a better hunter.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Right.
Speaker 9 (38:41):
I mean, it's a lot easier to kill a three
year old deer than it is to kill a six
year old deer. So a lot of people are going
to settle for a three year old deer versus waiting
out for a six year old deer.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Now, every situation is different.
Speaker 9 (38:54):
I might have a busy life, family at home and
I have a very small amount time to hunt, so
I need to go out and capitalize on that opportunity.
No one's here, at least I'm not here to judge
that person, right, But if you're constantly killing that quality
of deer, that caliber of deer, you're never going to
achieve the next level unless it's bite pure luck. So
you know, incrementally gaining confidence, incrementally gaining skills, all those
(39:18):
things come with repetition and experience, time invested into the process,
and learning through both failures and success along the way.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Thomas is a guy that continues to get better every year,
it seems like. And that's his perspective. And last, but
not least, we have wire to hunt. Resident post Mark
Kenyon on his opinion for this question. Okay, you're having
a lot of good seasons, just good, good, God man,
I feel like I'm getting one percent better. But I
want to make a big jump. I want to become great.
(39:50):
I want to start killing my target buck. I want
to start stao stepping this progression of a white tail
deer hunter, a serious whitetail deer hunter. What do you
think keeps most hunters at good versus great?
Speaker 10 (40:07):
There's as you were asking that question, I had like
three or four different things all pop off my mind.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
There's so many different things that can.
Speaker 10 (40:15):
Be that like barrier to breaking through the threshold, I
think one of the obvious ones.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
But it's like, it's not sexy, and it's something that
so many people.
Speaker 10 (40:25):
Talk about over and over and over again that maybe
it becomes annoying or you lose out you stopped hearing
it because it's been said so many times.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
But truly, when I made the shift from.
Speaker 10 (40:38):
You know, kind of just like coasting until actually focusing
on all of the little things, like when you really
become detail oriented, when you really are willing to not
take shortcuts, when you are really willing to start caring
about all the little things, those small improvements all steck
up in a really, really really big way and eventually
(40:59):
to killing becoming great. Like That's that's the unsexy answer,
is that it's not any one thing. It's taking everything serious.
It's doing all the little things right. It's putting in
that work throughout the entire year or as much of
the year as you possibly can. That is the stuff
that all adds up. But it's it's you know, when
somebody hears that. It's hard to just be like, Okay,
(41:21):
I'm gonna press that button and all of a sudden
that's gonna work.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Right. That doesn't do it.
Speaker 10 (41:24):
There's not an easy button, there's not a silver bullet.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
But I do think that's the case.
Speaker 10 (41:29):
Now, there are other like shifts or like mindset shifts
that can really help. Like something we talked about the
other day that really helped me was really looking at
the year as a full calendar and how everything changes
on a day to date basis, and how you need
to change your hunting season throughout to follow along with that.
So it's having like a calendar for your year and
really thinking about how you hunt differently at every time
(41:51):
of the year, and how you apply pressure to your
property at different times of the year. All that really helps.
That helps me a lot. I think another thing that
really could actually change somebody's success in a dramatic way,
and interestingly would not even require them to become a
better hunter, but could change their success would be simply
(42:12):
get more access if you had more places to hunt.
And so much of what people have success, like the
deer they kill, is determined by the properties.
Speaker 4 (42:23):
They hunt, the places that they hunt.
Speaker 10 (42:25):
There are and I don't mean this to offend anyone,
but there are a lot of people with a ton
of big deer in the wall that are much worse hunters,
worse quote unquote hunters then people who have way fewer
deer on the wall. Simply the only difference is where
they hunt. One person hunts in one state, one person
huntsing the other. Or one person has a thousand acre
(42:46):
family farm and one person's been trying to scrap together
tens and thirties and forties by door knocking. That can
make a huge difference, a monstrous difference. So that alone,
if you simply put in time to get access to
new places in more places, that could totally change your trajectory.
And honestly, that's a big part of my story in
that when I started, I started deer hunting a forty
(43:09):
acre piece in northern Michigan that was surrounded by public
and that's all I knew for years up until my
late teens. That's what I did. And there was four
keys and six pointers and a year and a half folds.
If you saw a two year old, it was the
biggest buck anyone'd seen in three years. So growing up
with that context and with that opportunity set, the success
I could have was incredibly limited. And by being stuck
(43:32):
in that box, not only was my opportunities to kill
deer limited, but also my opportunities to learn were limited.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
And so that's that's this other thing.
Speaker 10 (43:41):
If you add new access, if you get new permissions,
or you scout me public land, or you buy a
farm or whatever it is, you do two things. Number One,
you increase your opportunities because you might have a better
place now and right there, like instantly, all of a sudden,
you're a better hunter because you have deer to hunt,
or bigger deer to hunt, or older deer to hunt.
But then by hunting new places, that is one of
(44:03):
the absolute fastest ways to learn and to get better.
And so you're achieving two things in the same single decision.
You are increasing your opportunities and instantly having new learning opportunities.
That's going to help you become a better and better
and better heart. So I think if you do that
while also having this commitment to doing the things, the
(44:24):
little things right, if you do those two things, you
have a strong opportunity to move up towards a great hunter.
Those are the first two things that can online. I
think there's a thousand different things we could talk about.
I'm sure there's people who said something like, wow, you're
not gonna be a great hunter if you shoot good deer,
or there's gonna be people who say, you know, I
don't know. There's a thousand different ways you could take this,
(44:44):
and I'm very interested to hear what everybody else said.
But I think those two things in tandem could make
could break people through the glass ceiling, take to the
nuxt level. Very simple and not like profound, I guess,
but those two things could absolutely change the success that
anybody's having.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah, that's and that was another reason I asked this
question because there's a lot of different answers, and once again,
it could be dependent on all the different things that
every white tail hunter faces, whether it's access challenges or
I mean, the list goes on and on if you
want to go from good to great. And I think
that people inherently just want to get better, and so
(45:26):
maybe the goal here was is that what's one little
thing that I could just get a little better at
to get Maybe I'm just okay, maybe I'm really bad,
and I want to be okay and good and stare
step it up. But this was there was a wide
variety of answers, and I think if someone's listening into
this once again, it's applying number one, being real with
yourself and number two is it am I disciplined? Am
(45:48):
I putting in the effort? Because I think it's easy
to say, well, I could kill those deer if I
had the same access, And I think, well, if that's
the case, and you aspire for those goals, then you
have to do things in order to have those opportunities.
And they're probably right. If they didn't have the opportunity
to hunt here like that, I think they would be successful.
And I think that's uh, you know, we're here in
(46:09):
Iowa right now, and last night we were have people
move here because they're so ate up with this to
have an opportunity to have a great deal. And I
think that, you know, I think the what is great,
what is a great deal, and what is a great
hunter might be completely different. Maybe a great hunter means
that you introduced twenty new people to hunting, and you
(46:30):
were a great mentor and you taught them a lot
of great things. And then twenty years later, all those
twenty great hunters, we turn into great hunters. And so
I think there's a lot of really interesting ways to
look at this, and hopefully this is inspiring everyone to
challenge themselves just to get a little bit better this fall,
take mental notes and discontinuing to enjoy this season and
(46:51):
not have any added pressure. Next week, we're diving into
something that people are in panic mode. We're getting into
mid August. Now. They listen to the first episode, they
hung their cameras and they're like, man, I don't have
any deer on camera, and we're going to dive into
what to do when you haven't found a deer yet.
There you guys have I hope you guys enjoyed this
episode and maybe it opened your eyes, maybe you took
(47:14):
a quick look in the mirror. I know I did.
It's like, man, I can definitely do better at some
of these things. And that's the purpose of this episode
to find the things that make folks that seemingly have
great seasons every single year. What are they doing differently
and how can I emulate that? And maybe that's doing more,
maybe that's doing less. It just completely depends on what
your circumstances are, and next week we have the next dilemma.
(47:35):
More than likely there's been a big buck pictures floating
around and the question is I can't find a buck
to hunt now what? So that's what we have next week.
I hope you guys tune in for another round of
this expert panel as we're getting closer and closer to
deer season, and each week we're going to keep chipping
away at some of these issues, some of these dilemmas
that we all face as we're building up to deer seasons.
(47:56):
So we'll see it
Host
Mark Kenyon
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