August 20, 2025 • 37 mins
You’ve checked your cameras, glassed your fields, and walked the farm and still no sign of a buck worth hunting. Now what? In this episode, Jake Hofer brings the question to Steve Hanson, Don Higgins, Skip Sligh, Mark Kenyon, Thomas Mlsna, Jeff Sturgis, Bobby Kendall, and Bill Winke. When there’s no target on your radar, how do you adjust, stay patient, and still put yourself in a position to have your best season yet? The group shares their go-to moves when the intel goes cold, including how to stay mentally locked in, where to shift your scouting focus, and when to trust that a buck will show up. If you’re heading into the season with an empty hit list, this episode is for you.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Don't panic. That's the worst thing you can do, right.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
You can't expect to always just sit around and have
one show up.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
It's just not the reality.
Speaker 4 (00:08):
It really goes back to what was left there last year,
which it was good last year, and there was some
really good upcumbers. There were some nice bocks that you
were hunting that you were happy to tag. It'll be
good to get in this year.
Speaker 5 (00:18):
Welcome back to another round of Back forty, where we
traveled across the Midwest, bringing a group of experts to
dive into one single question, one white tailed dilemma that
we face throughout the build up of the white tail season.
Back forty is brought to you by land dot com,
the leading online real estate marketplace to find your perfect rural, recreational, agricultural,
(00:40):
or hunting properties here in the US. This week, we're
diving into a question and topic that I think a
lot of people may be sitting in right now. And
some people have comfort with this and some people are
likely very nervous. And so what we're diving into is
if you've been running cameras, you've been trying to scout,
and you haven't found a deer yet, that gets you excited. Now,
(01:01):
A lot of people right now will say, well, yeah,
dear shift, but where do deer shift and is this
something that you can bank on? Do you have intel
from last year? And we brought in our panel of
experts that have decades of experience that can help you
recognize these patterns that may be impactful for you to
develop a really good game plan for right now to
potentially find a buck to hunt, or number two, find
(01:22):
an area that will likely have a buck show up
when it matters during the season.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
So we have our.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
Expert panel here again with Bill Winky, Bobby Kendall, Skip Sly,
Steve Hansen, Jeff Sturgist, Don Higgins, Thomas Milsna, and Mark Kenyon,
and we're going to get right into this with Bill
on what he thinks and what to do. If you've
been scouting all year and you haven't found a buck
to hunt, should you panic and what should you do?
(01:52):
All my friends are sending me pictures of giant velvet bucks.
They're telling me all these big deer that they're going
to be able to hunt like a loser. I haven't
found any deer to hunt yet. It's August eighteen, and
I just feel like my season is ruined before it started.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
What do I do?
Speaker 4 (02:09):
It's still too early to now. I mean, I've seen
the playing field change clear into October.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
With respect to the bucks that.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Are in my hunting area, what I always think is
in what I've learned, you know, through the years, is
the bucks that were there last year in the fall
are probably going to be there again this year. If
there weren't any good bucks on the pump Beak last year,
or any really good up and comers, then you maybe
(02:41):
are aleser because you're continue to hunt there and there's
probably not going to be any this year because they
don't just magically appear. They grow and they're not nearly
as transient, is what we think. And that's the other
big I'm saying misconceptions. People think all them be it out,
they're always on the move. They're not always on the move.
(03:04):
I've not seen that, And talk with.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
Outfigures over the years.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Some of them there are guys that you know, you've
talked with the past, that you know we would you
know the same people and we've compared notes, and they
aren't moving all over the place. So you've got bucks
in their summer ranges drifted and dispersing into their fall ranges.
If it's been a good area and asked, it's just
(03:29):
a matter of time before those bucks show up again,
because unless they died somehow somewhere else, most of the
bucks use the same fall range year after year, and
you get a certain percentage of them that drop out.
You know that that move a little bit depends on
the size of the property you're hunting. If you're hunting
a smaller property, he might be fringed out on the neighbors.
(03:51):
He might not seem until the rock he's up cruising,
But more than likely, if he was in that area
last year, he's not dead. He's going to be in
that area again this year, but it may not be
could be clear into October before he starts to show up,
but for sure September.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
So the question people should be asking is is there
a deer or does the farm I'm hunting this year?
Is there any reason to think that a big one
will show up in the actual hunting season?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
And I shouldn't panic right now?
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Yeah, I think you Again, it really goes back to
what was left there last year, and if it was
good last year, and there was some really good up
and cumbers. There were some nice bucks that you were
hunting that you were be happy to tag. It'll be
good to get in this year. They just may not
be summering there, and that's the thing. You just have
to be patient. But if it wasn't any good last
(04:39):
year and you didn't have the up and combers that
you're saying, oh boy, this's gonna be a great bug
next year, if you didn't have that deer last year,
then there's a pretty good chance that you need to
find someplace else to haunt there.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
You guys have it.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
That is Bill's perspective, and what I gather from that
is dig back in your brain right now, or go
back and look at last year's pictures.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
What may sow up?
Speaker 5 (05:00):
And if the answer is nothing, you might want to
look for another spot or develop an alternate game plan.
Next up, we have Bobby Kendall and let's hear what
he has to say about this topic. All my buddies
are sending pictures to all these giant deer, and I'm
feeling like a loser that's getting peck picked, lass and dodgeball.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I can't find a buck the hunt. What do I do?
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Is late August, they're done growing. Basically, they're getting ready
to shed their velvet. All time excitement, but I'm not
very optimistic right now, yeap.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
So yeah, I think we talked about good hunters and
great hunters, and one of those things I think I
said is great hunters are really good at finding big deer.
So like, if you just have one spot to hunt,
and I understand, I get it, a lot of people
just have one spot to hunt or no spots to haunt.
(05:49):
You can't expect to always just sit around and have
one show up. It's just not the reality. You have
to get good at killing big deer consistently. You have
to get good at finding big deer consistently. So there's
years that I go into the season and I don't
have a whole lot going on, and I just start scrapping,
you know, I just start grinding, and you know, just
(06:11):
spots I might not hunt in a year, but I
could probably hunt if I call them this and that.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I just start running cameras everywhere.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
You just have to get spend more of your efforts
finding other places than trying to uh make make one magically.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Appear, because it just it doesn't really work.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Like that, and I wish I had a better answer
than that, but you got to get really good at
finding them and casting a big net. I think it's
somewhat rare to just have bucks or show up. I mean,
certain farms are different in that, but if you're running
your cameras effectively, especially if you're doing some stuff with
food blots and everything, it's it's not very often that
you don't have a deer, or at least know a deer. Nowadays,
(06:50):
know the deer is very Yeah. Another thing is I
think I talked about this before too, like as you're
looking for other places to hunt, so if you have
a hunch that there's one around or whatever, always be
moving the cameras because they're in bachelor groups and they
could be right there. I mean, I'm watching it at
(07:11):
my house right now, Like there's all these fields and
there's one field where all the bucks are, and if
you came and it's one part of the field, they're
in every night. So if your camera's on the other
side of the field, you're missing them and you're like,
I don't have any dear to hunt. But if it's
on the other side of the field, you're like, I
got a big one to hunt, So always moving your cameras,
shuffling them even if it's not not very far, and
(07:34):
at the same time working on your dame for trying
to find new places to hunt.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
Bobby's advice is super real and tangible for anyone that
is counting on luck.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
And also if.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
You're feeling like, hey, this isn't likely going to happen,
you have time to go out and look and try
to find something that you don't know anything about and
start learning and start preparing a plan B or C
or D. Next up, we have gips Lide. Let's keep
the episode moving. Ride along, and let's hear what Skip
p hass to say. All my friends are sending me
pictures of giant bucks that they have on camera, big
(08:09):
velvet bucks. They're all excited. I'm sitting over here. I
feel like a loser. I've had my cameras up, I
just can't find a buck to hunt.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
What do I do?
Speaker 7 (08:18):
One we need to understand that a lot of these
bucks aren't in their their fall range yet, so a
lot can change so and a lot of these guys
will be really excited, like I'm the guy with all
these giant bucks on camera, and I've got all these
soybeans or whatever. And then those same guys that think
they're doing really great October or August nineteenth, it comes
(08:41):
to like September nineteenth and like those bucks are gone
or October one, they're gone now. And then the guy
that might be like I don't have anything, Alsen's like, hey,
I actually pick some bucks up, So that actually doesn't
make me nervous. So what I would say if I
don't have giants on camera, like my buddies are all
(09:04):
bragging they do, and it's August nineteenth, I'm setting my
farm up or the places I can hunt to be.
You know, if I can do anything for habitat, making
them thicker, making them you know, not not a lot
of intrusion, making them good sanctuaries for the deer where
they feel safe, and that can be done through habitat,
(09:24):
and it can be done just through pressure. But if
you have desirable thick cover, that's when I see a
lot of transitions like whoa, they came off the beans
or things start thinning out. You know, Well that deer
might be living in kind of a cattle pasture area, Well,
those are going to thin out and there'll be no
brows later and a lot of these deer relocate.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
So I would try to.
Speaker 7 (09:45):
Have as many setups in like thick secluded areas that
have some food that you're like, this is desirable for
a big buck. And if it is, by definition, over
that month maybe two month period is things then out
props come down, white bucks start fighting for dominance. They're
(10:05):
going to get pushed off, and the dynamics will change.
And if you have a farm built to house a
matured a mature buck, there's a good chance that your
dynamics will change, uh in a month. Just get all
those farms prepped ready, get your stands up, get your
setups up, so when those bucks do show up, which
hopefully they do, sometimes maybe they won't, you're ready to go.
(10:27):
And your farm is very low pressure, and then you
you're you're ready to execute any plan if you need,
if you need to, and and a buck shows up
that you want to hunt.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
On a let's say like forty or sixty or seventy
acre track, are you are you more excited when you
don't have some bucks on camera in late summer.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Depends on the track.
Speaker 7 (10:48):
I want them there in the summer for sure, uh,
and I really hope I don't lose them. And when
I lose them, there's definitely some commonalities on why those
dear leave. In my opinion, what are what are some
of those coming out don't have good thermal cover, don't
have super thick, thick, nasty like guys are like I
don't like cedar trees.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I want to get rid of them all.
Speaker 7 (11:08):
Well, I have cedar trees because those bucks are going
to seek that really dense cover out and maybe not
the stuff that's like so tight together you can't walk through,
but like really thick nasty stuff. Those bucks are going
to want to be there. And then you know, if
I had a forty that's like, hey, I got giants
out there, but it's just got you know, a five
acre timber draw. Well, as those beans dry down and
(11:32):
turn yellow, all of a sudden, those bucks will probably vanish.
So that one would be very concerning to me if
I if I didn't have a lot of good thick cover,
I wouldn't panic. I just find the thickest, nastiest cover
that's not not blown up, and as long as you
know you got say a forty acre piece and what
blows a lot of farms up is like, hey, this
(11:54):
forty acre piece is ideal, and all of a sudden
every year the bucks go there, but then the people
screw it up blown back out. Well, if I have
the farm that I make sure that doesn't happen, most
of my neighbors will probably do stupid stuff and push
the deer in there a lot of times, So I
would just keep it. So It's just like if you
(12:15):
build it, they will come, and sometimes they do come,
and sometimes they don't. Just understand that and if they
don't come consistently, there's something wrong with the farm. But
I would just say if you get good at knowing
how to know what a great farm is with like
seclusion safety, good thermal cover, nasty thick bedding cover, and
(12:35):
then you don't blow it out a lot of times
by definition it will you're gonna gain bucks. Is especially
if people are doing stupid stuff around you, or things
are thinning out and I see that all the time,
like the leaves start falling and.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Whoa that that stuff that look.
Speaker 7 (12:52):
Kind of thick with cattle in and well that's a
ghost town and all thst deer leave and they'll find
the farm like heres if it's set up right.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Next up we have Steve Hanson, and he does a
ton of work on the farms, and I think his
perspective is a little bit different. I'm not going to
spoil anything, so here we go. This is what Steve
Hanson has to say for the folks that either have
a bunch of bucks or don't have anything, how to
find one and what you should do right now.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
It's late summer.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Okay, you've probably had cameras out, you've done some scouting,
you have a few spots right now, you've unt it
in the past.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
You can't find a buck, yep.
Speaker 8 (13:28):
Now what well, what I would start doing at that point,
depending on when your season opens. If you still have
and you know this, we talked about this one of
the other questions, but if you still have quite a
bit of time before your hunting season opens, I would
invest a ton of time glassing if that and that
that can take two different approaches. One is truly just
(13:50):
glassing where you're sitting in the truck, sitting on a
high point watching something like that. If that's not an
option in your area, maybe set stands for the upcoming
hunting season.
Speaker 6 (14:01):
More of observation stands.
Speaker 8 (14:03):
You're there, you're hunting, but instead of hunting, you know,
one little tight funnel right outside of a betting area,
get out on an open oak ridge or an oak
flat where you can see a couple hundred yards with
your binoculars through the timber both directions, and you're hunting
and you're in the game with a good solid wind direction.
But you're also in a spot where you can glass
and move and then just be ready to move quickly
(14:24):
once you do identify a target buck. But you have
to kind of pull back from hunt mode and go
into more even if it's a scout slash hunt, a
hanging hunt type thing, just to get a good vantage
point on some other areas.
Speaker 6 (14:35):
But you're going to have to.
Speaker 8 (14:36):
Cover more country to be able to be able to
try to find one. It's all going to focus on
finding them. And I would probably move my cameras around
quite a bit.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
Where would you move them or I guess and this
is you know, this is throughout the summer too, So
are you banking on any sort of summer shift or
bucks changing as velvet is about to shed too?
Speaker 6 (14:54):
Yeah, I would.
Speaker 8 (14:55):
I would definitely be moving, you know, as you go
through August. We usually if we get a big wind
of enter something will put acorns on the ground. I
would move off the edge of the soybean fields and
stuff the traditional summer spots. I would find you know,
trails and stuff in the betting areas close to where
there is solid mass crops, you know, And I would
focus on white oaks in a lot of area. They're
going to be the earlier of the acorns and they're
(15:16):
far preferred. So I would definitely shift to shift the
cameras to that, and then shift my strategy. Try to
have a two prong approach where you've moved the cameras
to better and newer locations, and then I would also
plan on you know, physically glassing through hunts or through
whatever whatever that takes.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
So I would you think twenty years ago and think
of some of the bucks that you've killed over the years,
how often did you have August intel of those deer?
Speaker 8 (15:45):
I would say even twenty years ago, we probably had
intel of some kind on all of.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Them in that summertime frame.
Speaker 8 (15:52):
Yep, in the summertime frame, either through glassing. We actually
one buck in particular, which was approximately twenty years ago,
I can remember we was a brand new property and
we had a friend in town from out of the area,
and we all divided up in July before a Canadian
fishing trip and jumped up in the stands or in
shooting huts, and he told us he saw this buck
(16:15):
and like the way he described it, like, we're like,
this guy's from back east.
Speaker 6 (16:20):
His name, he's a great friend.
Speaker 8 (16:21):
His name's Bob, and we're like, hops, probably doesn't know.
He probably saw one hundred and sixty inch ten pointer,
you know, and thought that was that. So we located
that deer through glassing to appease Bob and sort of
ourselves before we the next day, before we left for Canada,
we put some corn out there, put a camera and
these were cameras you had to pull the chip, you know,
(16:43):
all that stuff, and left went on our fishing trip,
came back and there was two bucks there on that camera,
one of which I killed, which was the one that
scored two fourteen. The other one I still think about this.
We never saw the other one again, and he had
to be close to one ninety, maybe because they were
both somewhat equal in that trail camera picture, but that
(17:04):
those were the bucks that Bob had seen, which we
identified through glassing and then moved in and actually got
hard evidence with a picture through specifically moving a camera
over there.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Now, let's get into what Jeff Sturge's perspective is on
the topic. Might be totally different than everyone else here,
let's get into it. I can't find a buck to hunt.
I don't know of one right now based off of
summer intel.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
What do I do?
Speaker 6 (17:35):
Now, You're probably doing a great job.
Speaker 9 (17:37):
The majority of lands that hold the mature and this
isn't like one hundred percent rule, but it's probably ninety.
It's up there, it's high, but the majority of the
box will hold. The lands that hold the best box
here in the summertime do not hold the same box
here in the fall.
Speaker 6 (17:52):
And there's nothing magical about it.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
You know.
Speaker 9 (17:55):
I've been on over fourteen hundred properties to analyze them
for an entire day in twenty one years and twenty
six states, and I see the same.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
Thing over and over and over again.
Speaker 9 (18:05):
Mature bucks have one habitat requirement during the summertime and
another habitat requirement in the fall.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
That habitat merk requirement might go back.
Speaker 9 (18:15):
End of winter to spring to what it was during
the summertime, so they have different areas, and even scientific
studies will show that there's often a barbell movement to
mature box where they spend forty percent of their time here,
forty percent of their time here, twenty percent of the
time in between.
Speaker 6 (18:32):
Well, if you look at the habitat.
Speaker 9 (18:33):
They need during the summertime, they need quality summer food.
So a lot of times if you're seeing big groups
of box, you're probably not hunting giant hardwoods in Kentucky, Pennsylvania,
or up north swamps in the Northern States, it's probably
because they're out in ag areas.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Well.
Speaker 9 (18:49):
If they're hitting ag areas or aunt alfalfa soybeans, those
are all gone. Once the alfalfa frost out k October,
it's almost worthless. We're surrounded by hundreds of acres of alfalfa,
and those that doesn't drive the deer herd. In drives
the deer herd in May, June, July, August, especially after
the cuttings. When it comes to October, November, December and beyond,
(19:10):
it does not, and so that summer food that they
craved all summer is gone. So a mature buck is willing.
He's got a home range five times greater than a
doll family group. He's going to find quality food that
is unpressured, and he wants quality fall food in winter
food which is not the same as the summer. Also,
(19:30):
he wants high overstory and shade during the summertime. He
can't crash his velvet antlers to that high stem count hardwood, regen,
and briers that he would prefer to live in during October, November, December, January, February, March.
In fact, he browses there, lives there during the daylight.
He can't live there with his velvet during the summertime.
(19:50):
So not only does his food source change, his cover
sources changed too. So if you're building a property on
private land or fall food plots, not only are you
you're helping your hunt out obviously by positioning those bucks
on your land here in the falling off the summer,
but you're also giving the deer what they need the
most too. They don't need your food during the summertime,
but they desperately need it in the pre.
Speaker 6 (20:11):
Winter winter post winter.
Speaker 9 (20:13):
So if you're focusing your food efforts in that time,
you're helping the critters and the wildlife and the deer,
and at the same time you're helping your hunt too,
and so that's a good thing. And I can honestly
say that we have about of the two thirds of
the one hundred percent of the box that we expect
to see and target this year. All our target bucks,
(20:34):
we're seeing about a third of them right now. We
identified two of them on a cruise the other night
around the neighborhood and they were about a mile from
the property. In October, November, December, our home range will
be where they live. And I'm not saying this to brag.
My neighbor last year sent me we had shot. I
(20:54):
wounded a buck that was a six year old. Unfortunately,
he is one of the ones we saw in the neighborhood,
which was a really good thing the other night ll beams.
But anyways, we shot two of the other ones, and
my neighbor said, well, that was only bucks we were after, So.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
I don't even know if I'm gonna come back to hunt.
I thought he would have he's one hundred acres.
Speaker 9 (21:13):
Off the edge of us. I thought he would have
had other mature bucks to shoot. But he positions his
food source and I've talked to him about this, but
he positions his food source so it's right up against
our property. Well, all the bucks that hit his food
live and reside on our property during the daylight. He
sent me a text saying that he hadn't seen anywhere
else but the last three years he sees those bucks
all summer long, and then by late October November, he
(21:36):
doesn't see him anymore, and we shoot him on our land,
And it's because of cover and food source positioning. I'd
rather he actually take his food away from us, develop
his own core betting area. Then he can develop separate
buck movements and for that we get potentially twice as
much or fifty percent more mature bucks in the area
(21:57):
that we could all hunt and enjoy.
Speaker 6 (21:58):
So I'd actually rather see that and try to help
them out.
Speaker 9 (22:01):
And it's not necessarily it is a competition thing to
some extent, but at the same time, if you help
each other out, and I could think you can build
a better dear overall, that helps out the entire neighborhood.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Over the years, I feel that Jeff has educated a
lot of people on core and non core bucks. And
when you really want to be holding deer and I
think his perspective is extremely relatable. On a smaller parcel.
More likely, you can't hold a bunch of mature bucks
the entire year. They're going to be out in different areas. So,
hearing that from Jeff, if you're sitting in that exact
(22:33):
position right now, you should feel a lot better. Now
let's get into what Don Higgins thinks on this exact topic.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I can't find a buck to hunt now? What keep looking?
Speaker 10 (22:45):
I mean bucks that you know in early falls, starting
around September one, when they start shitting velvet bachelor groups
start breaking up, bucks start shifting their ranges, moving from
their summer range to their fall range. I get a
lot of bucks on camera in the fall that I
did not have pictures of in the summer. If you
(23:06):
got a specific goal, no matter what that goal is,
it could be you know, one hundred and forty inches,
or it could be booner. If you haven't found that
buck yet, keep looking. Don't compromise. You know, that's another
thing that will separate good hunters from greade hunters. Great
hunters don't compromise. When they've got a goal, they stick
to that goal no matter how long it takes to
(23:27):
reach it. They keep striving for that goal without compromise,
So don't give up.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
How important do you think it is to identify Maybe
a lot of people maybe only have one or two spots.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
And so.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
For those people, if typically bucks show up in September
or October or November, would you tell them not to
panic and stick the plan?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
No?
Speaker 10 (23:50):
What I would tell them is, why do you only
have one or those spots? Is your wife telling you
can only hunt here?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
There?
Speaker 10 (23:56):
Nobody's tied down. It's not like we're kids depending on
our parents to take sut up to the woods and
drop us off. We got a call a free adult man.
Nobody's tying you down to two hunting properties. Get off
your butt and go make something for yourself. Yeah, if
you want to kill giants, there's no excuses.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
There's Don's perspective, and I think there's a common theme
that if you've been listening along to each in every
single episode, that a lot of this comes down to
simply effort. All the tactics that are in here, I
understand they don't sound groundbreaking, but it comes down to
effort and your ability to spread out your options to
up your success and there's still time to do that,
(24:34):
and hopefully don just encourage you to consider that before
the season officially kicks off. And now we have Thomas
Milsna and his perspective on not having a buck to hunt,
or not knowing eyone, or sitting there with no intel
what to do? And should you panic? All of my
friends are sending me giant velvet bucks. They already have
(24:54):
a rolodex of Target bucks, and I'm sitting here feeling
like a loser on a single buck yet hunt?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
What do I do? And do I panic? No?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
No, don't panic. That's the worst thing you can do.
Right early in the season like this, I never get
worried now. I always go back and lean on that
historical data.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
So again, most of the time, if I'm hunting a
deer that's five or six years page, I've got a
year or two of history with him at least. So
if I go back and I'm if I was anticipating
that this buck was going to be around early season
and I can't find him in the summertime, then I
might be a little bit more worried. But even then
I don't worry too much because earlier in the season
(25:38):
there's a lot more cover, there's a lot more food.
Deer move a lot less, plain and simple. So if
he's just not getting pushed around, he's happy where he is.
As fall progresses, he's going to shift a little bit, right,
So that's the biggest thing to think about. If you
were chasing a buck last year or watching a target
buck last year, potential target buck an up and comer,
and now he's on your target list this year. If
(25:59):
you were watching him last year and you were seeing
him on your property in the end of October, then
don't be alarmed if you don't see him in August. Right,
it's a completely different timeframe. If you were seeing him
in October last year and then October rolls around this
year and you're still not seeing him, then I would
worry a little bit, and maybe I would just start wondering, like,
did he get killed in his early season range by
(26:20):
some other hunter that was anticipating him being there early
in the season. Right, Every property is different, every buck
is different. The best thing you can do is track
each buck individually, you know, focus on those deer on
their target deer, maintain or collect information that you can
log for that historic data and really really try to
(26:42):
dial in the areas of your property and what the
habitat has to offer them. You know, that's like the
next level of it. Right after anticipating where deer are
going to be, Well, ask the question why are they there?
Is there more cover based on the time of the year,
Is there more food based on the time of the year.
You know, all those things go hand in hand with
the pressure element that we face all the time. So
(27:03):
don't panic if it's summertime, unless that book is a
buck that you normally see there in the summer, and
then he's normally their early season, you're trying to hunt him.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
If you normally see him later.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
In the fall and he's not there in the summer,
they're going to shift their home range as always. You
know that buck might shift miles or he might shift
over the ridge. Every situation is a little bit different.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
That's been not at least we have Mark Nyan to close
out this episode and he's going to tell you about
his perspective on this topic for right now and also
later in the season.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
So here we go.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
We're going to close this out strong with Mark Kenyan.
All right, all my friends, they are sending me pictures
of a big deer. They're saying, this is going to
be my best year yet, and I'm sitting here and
I feel like a lame o. I haven't found any
deer yet. I have my cameras up. I'm starting to
panic because i just want to find a deer that
I'll be excited to hunt.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
What do you do if you're sitting in that position
right now? Yeah, well, hear me.
Speaker 11 (27:58):
It does depend on when somebody's listening to this right now.
If if somebody's listening to this right now in August,
you know, late summer, that's one thing. If someone were
to be listening to this in season, it's another. I'll
give both answers to help someone out in either situation.
If it's in the summer and they don't have a buck,
they're exciting to hunt, it's understandable to be disappointed. And
(28:20):
I've had a couple of years or that that's the case.
I'm going this's a bummer, but I'm not in panic mode.
So much changes from the end of summer until hunting
season arrives. There's there's several major shifts. Right There's what
a lot of us called the September shift. So when
bucks lose their velvet, you get a reshuffling of the deck.
(28:40):
I've always found like somewhere on like thirty percent, give
or take, something like that shifts to a slightly different range.
So there's gonna be new bucks coming in, there's gonna
be some bucks leaving. So I'm not you know, what's
there in August or July is oftentimes different than what's
going to be there in October when I start out,
So right out the gate, I know that's going to happen,
So I'm not worried yet. Number Two, As that rut
(29:03):
starts getting closer and closer, you start getting more movement,
more deer moving in. I have some properties that simply
don't have a lot of bucks until the rut, Like
one farm that I hunt just I know because of
the habitat type that's there, it's not a summer place.
But come late October, all of a sudden, bucks start
trolling through. So you can sometimes learn the DNA of
your farm or the DNA of your area and just
(29:26):
come to understand that some places just aren't going to
have that. So hopefully that's something you've come to learn
about your places, and you know, whether or not that's
the case. But if you're in an area where it
historically is always held deer in the summer, and you
know that usually the deer that show up in the
summer are also the deer that are there in the fall.
There's places like that too, And if it's a given
year that's not the case, and like holl of Smokes,
(29:48):
there's no mature bucks this year, then I've got some worries.
Now I'm thinking, like, what's going on? Why is this
year so different than every other year? Is there EHD
has something else going on on that I'm you know,
that's going to mess me up for the whole year.
If I'm in that situation and I have real concerns
because of how different this is in the past, while
(30:08):
I still know that things still could change, I would
at this point be thinking, Okay, how do I diversify? Right, Like,
the key to safe investing is a diversified portfolio, and
I think that diversified to your portfolio is always good.
I did too, So this is something that I'm every
year of trying to get a little better at this,
and I'm trying to provide myself this kind of safety net.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
But that is having.
Speaker 11 (30:34):
Multiple options, so never being dependent on just one spot
or just one property or one square mile or one zone.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Whatever.
Speaker 11 (30:40):
It is having as many different areas as possible, so
you don't find yourself in a position with nothing to
hunt or nothing you're excited about. You've always got an
option B, an option C, another zone, another area, another,
even if it's just public land, and you're like, hey,
if my core spot that I've always hunted the past
doesn't have one, at least I I know three or
(31:01):
four other public land spots that I can go dive into,
learn more about, and find something fun to do over there.
I think that's a great thing to have in mind.
I've had some years where deer that I think should
be around aren't around, and I was so excited about
them that I wanted to try to confirm like life
or death, or try to refine them or find something else.
So that's why I start casting nets. So I start
(31:23):
driving around summer evenings and glassing fields and the surrounding neighborhoods,
like imagine like growing concentric circles around where they used
to be and trying to find that deer again or
find another deer. I'm really excited about and then start
trying to get new access, so you're trying to find
that deer and then start knocking on doors around them
and see if you can get access to where a
deer you are excited hunt is now, so that if
(31:45):
it doesn't show back up on your place in October
or November, you have those options. So I think those
are a couple different ways of going about this. There's
the sit back and relax and feel confident that something's
going to happen because you have other options, or because
you know that things do circle around, or I think
there's to seek it out and go find other opportunities.
(32:05):
And I think, you know, some of the conversations that
we've had are around like what separates good from grape
or what separates you know, those who are consistently killing.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
A deer versus like every year killed one.
Speaker 11 (32:15):
And I think like the ones who always have opportunities
are typically the ones who don't just kick back and
say whatever. They're the ones that, hey, if it's not happening,
I'm gonna make it happen somewhere else or in some
other way. And so I think that's when it comes
down to, like do you have the interest and the
willingness to seek them out. In that case, in season,
(32:36):
if I don't have a buck to hunt, it's much
more of that. So while like the August thing, I
might be a little bit more like, Okay, it's probably
gonna happen. Still hopefully I'm going a diversified position already,
but I'm probably not panicked. But if it's in October
or November it's still there's nothing to hunt, then it's like, okay,
it's go time. And if it's go time and there's
(32:59):
nothing to hunt, and it's like all right, I have
to go seek it out elsewhere unless I have different goals,
like if your goals aren't around, I have to kill
a big drive buck. And instead of like, hey, I
want to spend time get my kids out hunting, I
want to kill some doves and whatever comes through, whatever
you know, whatever happens to be here is fine.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Like if that's what make you happy and great, enjoy it,
no worries.
Speaker 11 (33:19):
But if you are like dedicated to killing a five
year old or dedicated to killing a certain caliber deer,
you can't kill it if it's not there. And so
in that case it's time to pound wars. It's time
to explore public land. Hopefully you have a diversified portfolio
of access. It's time to check all those other places out.
Oh and then here's another really important thing to know.
(33:43):
I've also been in this position where I thought I
didn't have anything to hunt because my cameras weren't showing it,
and I made the mistake of assuming that was like
gospel truth property. Yeah, it's important not to live and
die by your cameras, because I've also thought, oh, this
dear's gone, and then I didn't hunt for a while,
but then finally, all right, I better go out there,
(34:03):
and so I.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Do go hunt in the band. There he is.
Speaker 11 (34:05):
He's just been avoiding the cameras the whole time too.
So make sure that you are actually confirming presence of
the deer with your eyes yourself, rather than depending on
our technology. These tools are great, but do not be
too dependent on them, because there's a whole lot slipping
by that we never see. And if you're not out
there in the field hunting or scouting and doing it
(34:26):
yourself old fashioned woodsmanship and hunting. If you're not doing that,
you are not in a position to make a defining
decision of whether or not there's a buck to hunt
or not.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Yeah, I think that's a really healthy outlook.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
And that was really the general consensus across the board
of hey, don't panic, and there is a shift that
is very real and hopefully, if you have a good farm,
your habitat's only going to get better throughout the leading
up the season and during the actual season when you'll
have an opportunity to hunt them. And that was the
general consensus. The other general consensus was keep looking, like,
(35:02):
just don't totally bank on one will show up, because
one shows up every single year, and go out and
maybe get an option, you know, two, three, four, five,
sixty seven.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
You can never have too many options.
Speaker 5 (35:14):
You really can't. And I think that it's a super
exciting time. And if you have one on camera, maybe
start looking at, Okay, where may he shift and anticipate
that maybe you can knock on a door and get permission,
or maybe the farm's large enough anything, I think he's
going to shift over to this direction. And maybe you
have enough data and intel over the years where you
(35:34):
feel like you're you're.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Just waiting for everything to unfold. And that's an exciting
place to be.
Speaker 5 (35:39):
Next week, we're diving into an exciting question and dilemma
to where you're just got access to something brand new.
It's late August, it's kind of late to do. It's
too late to do a spring food plot. It may
or may not be too late to do some major projects.
Where you go season is right around the corner, and
(35:59):
that'll be next week.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
There, you guys have it.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
I hope you enjoyed this episode and what I gathered
from this expert panel on the one topic that we
all get a little wound up about.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
If you're sitting here with no.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
Deer on the farm that you own, you manage, you lease,
you pay really close attention to. The thesis is do
not panic, but think about what deer may show up
from last year. That's probably number one. Number two, do
you have good fall habitat? And if the answer is no,
you still have time to get an alternate plan and
(36:34):
make sure that you're not counting on luck, you're not
magically anticipating a big deer to show up. And ultimately,
if you have a bunch of bucks on camera right
now and you're feeling awesome, but once again, the fall
habitat is not going to be ideal. I wouldn't be
feeling as confident and I've done I've been on both
ends of this perspective throughout the years, and I get
(36:54):
a lot less nervous when I don't have Summer Bucks
on camera. But I do know the fall habitat is solid.
So I hope you guys enjoyed this. Next week, we're
diving into a different can of worms and those that
just got a new farm, or just got a new lease,
or just knocked on the door and is basically starting
a ground zero with the season right around the corner.
(37:16):
We're gonna share what all these folks would do before
the season and what they wouldn't do, which may be
more important.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
So until then, we'll see you next time. See you
Don't panic. That's the worst thing you can do, right.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
You can't expect to always just sit around and have
one show up.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
It's just not the reality.
Speaker 4 (00:08):
It really goes back to what was left there last year,
which it was good last year, and there was some
really good upcumbers. There were some nice bocks that you
were hunting that you were happy to tag. It'll be
good to get in this year.
Speaker 5 (00:18):
Welcome back to another round of Back forty, where we
traveled across the Midwest, bringing a group of experts to
dive into one single question, one white tailed dilemma that
we face throughout the build up of the white tail season.
Back forty is brought to you by land dot com,
the leading online real estate marketplace to find your perfect rural, recreational, agricultural,
(00:40):
or hunting properties here in the US. This week, we're
diving into a question and topic that I think a
lot of people may be sitting in right now. And
some people have comfort with this and some people are
likely very nervous. And so what we're diving into is
if you've been running cameras, you've been trying to scout,
and you haven't found a deer yet, that gets you excited. Now,
(01:01):
A lot of people right now will say, well, yeah,
dear shift, but where do deer shift and is this
something that you can bank on? Do you have intel
from last year? And we brought in our panel of
experts that have decades of experience that can help you
recognize these patterns that may be impactful for you to
develop a really good game plan for right now to
potentially find a buck to hunt, or number two, find
(01:22):
an area that will likely have a buck show up
when it matters during the season.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
So we have our.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
Expert panel here again with Bill Winky, Bobby Kendall, Skip Sly,
Steve Hansen, Jeff Sturgist, Don Higgins, Thomas Milsna, and Mark Kenyon,
and we're going to get right into this with Bill
on what he thinks and what to do. If you've
been scouting all year and you haven't found a buck
to hunt, should you panic and what should you do?
(01:52):
All my friends are sending me pictures of giant velvet bucks.
They're telling me all these big deer that they're going
to be able to hunt like a loser. I haven't
found any deer to hunt yet. It's August eighteen, and
I just feel like my season is ruined before it started.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
What do I do?
Speaker 4 (02:09):
It's still too early to now. I mean, I've seen
the playing field change clear into October.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
With respect to the bucks that.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Are in my hunting area, what I always think is
in what I've learned, you know, through the years, is
the bucks that were there last year in the fall
are probably going to be there again this year. If
there weren't any good bucks on the pump Beak last year,
or any really good up and comers, then you maybe
(02:41):
are aleser because you're continue to hunt there and there's
probably not going to be any this year because they
don't just magically appear. They grow and they're not nearly
as transient, is what we think. And that's the other
big I'm saying misconceptions. People think all them be it out,
they're always on the move. They're not always on the move.
(03:04):
I've not seen that, And talk with.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
Outfigures over the years.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Some of them there are guys that you know, you've
talked with the past, that you know we would you
know the same people and we've compared notes, and they
aren't moving all over the place. So you've got bucks
in their summer ranges drifted and dispersing into their fall ranges.
If it's been a good area and asked, it's just
(03:29):
a matter of time before those bucks show up again,
because unless they died somehow somewhere else, most of the
bucks use the same fall range year after year, and
you get a certain percentage of them that drop out.
You know that that move a little bit depends on
the size of the property you're hunting. If you're hunting
a smaller property, he might be fringed out on the neighbors.
(03:51):
He might not seem until the rock he's up cruising,
But more than likely, if he was in that area
last year, he's not dead. He's going to be in
that area again this year, but it may not be
could be clear into October before he starts to show up,
but for sure September.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
So the question people should be asking is is there
a deer or does the farm I'm hunting this year?
Is there any reason to think that a big one
will show up in the actual hunting season?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
And I shouldn't panic right now?
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Yeah, I think you Again, it really goes back to
what was left there last year, and if it was
good last year, and there was some really good up
and cumbers. There were some nice bucks that you were
hunting that you were be happy to tag. It'll be
good to get in this year. They just may not
be summering there, and that's the thing. You just have
to be patient. But if it wasn't any good last
(04:39):
year and you didn't have the up and combers that
you're saying, oh boy, this's gonna be a great bug
next year, if you didn't have that deer last year,
then there's a pretty good chance that you need to
find someplace else to haunt there.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
You guys have it.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
That is Bill's perspective, and what I gather from that
is dig back in your brain right now, or go
back and look at last year's pictures.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
What may sow up?
Speaker 5 (05:00):
And if the answer is nothing, you might want to
look for another spot or develop an alternate game plan.
Next up, we have Bobby Kendall and let's hear what
he has to say about this topic. All my buddies
are sending pictures to all these giant deer, and I'm
feeling like a loser that's getting peck picked, lass and dodgeball.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I can't find a buck the hunt. What do I do?
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Is late August, they're done growing. Basically, they're getting ready
to shed their velvet. All time excitement, but I'm not
very optimistic right now, yeap.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
So yeah, I think we talked about good hunters and
great hunters, and one of those things I think I
said is great hunters are really good at finding big deer.
So like, if you just have one spot to hunt,
and I understand, I get it, a lot of people
just have one spot to hunt or no spots to haunt.
(05:49):
You can't expect to always just sit around and have
one show up. It's just not the reality. You have
to get good at killing big deer consistently. You have
to get good at finding big deer consistently. So there's
years that I go into the season and I don't
have a whole lot going on, and I just start scrapping,
you know, I just start grinding, and you know, just
(06:11):
spots I might not hunt in a year, but I
could probably hunt if I call them this and that.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I just start running cameras everywhere.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
You just have to get spend more of your efforts
finding other places than trying to uh make make one magically.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Appear, because it just it doesn't really work.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Like that, and I wish I had a better answer
than that, but you got to get really good at
finding them and casting a big net. I think it's
somewhat rare to just have bucks or show up. I mean,
certain farms are different in that, but if you're running
your cameras effectively, especially if you're doing some stuff with
food blots and everything, it's it's not very often that
you don't have a deer, or at least know a deer. Nowadays,
(06:50):
know the deer is very Yeah. Another thing is I
think I talked about this before too, like as you're
looking for other places to hunt, so if you have
a hunch that there's one around or whatever, always be
moving the cameras because they're in bachelor groups and they
could be right there. I mean, I'm watching it at
(07:11):
my house right now, Like there's all these fields and
there's one field where all the bucks are, and if
you came and it's one part of the field, they're
in every night. So if your camera's on the other
side of the field, you're missing them and you're like,
I don't have any dear to hunt. But if it's
on the other side of the field, you're like, I
got a big one to hunt, So always moving your cameras,
shuffling them even if it's not not very far, and
(07:34):
at the same time working on your dame for trying
to find new places to hunt.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
Bobby's advice is super real and tangible for anyone that
is counting on luck.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
And also if.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
You're feeling like, hey, this isn't likely going to happen,
you have time to go out and look and try
to find something that you don't know anything about and
start learning and start preparing a plan B or C
or D. Next up, we have gips Lide. Let's keep
the episode moving. Ride along, and let's hear what Skip
p hass to say. All my friends are sending me
pictures of giant bucks that they have on camera, big
(08:09):
velvet bucks. They're all excited. I'm sitting over here. I
feel like a loser. I've had my cameras up, I
just can't find a buck to hunt.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
What do I do?
Speaker 7 (08:18):
One we need to understand that a lot of these
bucks aren't in their their fall range yet, so a
lot can change so and a lot of these guys
will be really excited, like I'm the guy with all
these giant bucks on camera, and I've got all these
soybeans or whatever. And then those same guys that think
they're doing really great October or August nineteenth, it comes
(08:41):
to like September nineteenth and like those bucks are gone
or October one, they're gone now. And then the guy
that might be like I don't have anything, Alsen's like, hey,
I actually pick some bucks up, So that actually doesn't
make me nervous. So what I would say if I
don't have giants on camera, like my buddies are all
(09:04):
bragging they do, and it's August nineteenth, I'm setting my
farm up or the places I can hunt to be.
You know, if I can do anything for habitat, making
them thicker, making them you know, not not a lot
of intrusion, making them good sanctuaries for the deer where
they feel safe, and that can be done through habitat,
(09:24):
and it can be done just through pressure. But if
you have desirable thick cover, that's when I see a
lot of transitions like whoa, they came off the beans
or things start thinning out. You know, Well that deer
might be living in kind of a cattle pasture area, Well,
those are going to thin out and there'll be no
brows later and a lot of these deer relocate.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
So I would try to.
Speaker 7 (09:45):
Have as many setups in like thick secluded areas that
have some food that you're like, this is desirable for
a big buck. And if it is, by definition, over
that month maybe two month period is things then out
props come down, white bucks start fighting for dominance. They're
(10:05):
going to get pushed off, and the dynamics will change.
And if you have a farm built to house a
matured a mature buck, there's a good chance that your
dynamics will change, uh in a month. Just get all
those farms prepped ready, get your stands up, get your
setups up, so when those bucks do show up, which
hopefully they do, sometimes maybe they won't, you're ready to go.
(10:27):
And your farm is very low pressure, and then you
you're you're ready to execute any plan if you need,
if you need to, and and a buck shows up
that you want to hunt.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
On a let's say like forty or sixty or seventy
acre track, are you are you more excited when you
don't have some bucks on camera in late summer.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Depends on the track.
Speaker 7 (10:48):
I want them there in the summer for sure, uh,
and I really hope I don't lose them. And when
I lose them, there's definitely some commonalities on why those
dear leave. In my opinion, what are what are some
of those coming out don't have good thermal cover, don't
have super thick, thick, nasty like guys are like I
don't like cedar trees.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I want to get rid of them all.
Speaker 7 (11:08):
Well, I have cedar trees because those bucks are going
to seek that really dense cover out and maybe not
the stuff that's like so tight together you can't walk through,
but like really thick nasty stuff. Those bucks are going
to want to be there. And then you know, if
I had a forty that's like, hey, I got giants
out there, but it's just got you know, a five
acre timber draw. Well, as those beans dry down and
(11:32):
turn yellow, all of a sudden, those bucks will probably vanish.
So that one would be very concerning to me if
I if I didn't have a lot of good thick cover,
I wouldn't panic. I just find the thickest, nastiest cover
that's not not blown up, and as long as you
know you got say a forty acre piece and what
blows a lot of farms up is like, hey, this
(11:54):
forty acre piece is ideal, and all of a sudden
every year the bucks go there, but then the people
screw it up blown back out. Well, if I have
the farm that I make sure that doesn't happen, most
of my neighbors will probably do stupid stuff and push
the deer in there a lot of times, So I
would just keep it. So It's just like if you
(12:15):
build it, they will come, and sometimes they do come,
and sometimes they don't. Just understand that and if they
don't come consistently, there's something wrong with the farm. But
I would just say if you get good at knowing
how to know what a great farm is with like
seclusion safety, good thermal cover, nasty thick bedding cover, and
(12:35):
then you don't blow it out a lot of times
by definition it will you're gonna gain bucks. Is especially
if people are doing stupid stuff around you, or things
are thinning out and I see that all the time,
like the leaves start falling and.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Whoa that that stuff that look.
Speaker 7 (12:52):
Kind of thick with cattle in and well that's a
ghost town and all thst deer leave and they'll find
the farm like heres if it's set up right.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Next up we have Steve Hanson, and he does a
ton of work on the farms, and I think his
perspective is a little bit different. I'm not going to
spoil anything, so here we go. This is what Steve
Hanson has to say for the folks that either have
a bunch of bucks or don't have anything, how to
find one and what you should do right now.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
It's late summer.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Okay, you've probably had cameras out, you've done some scouting,
you have a few spots right now, you've unt it
in the past.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
You can't find a buck, yep.
Speaker 8 (13:28):
Now what well, what I would start doing at that point,
depending on when your season opens. If you still have
and you know this, we talked about this one of
the other questions, but if you still have quite a
bit of time before your hunting season opens, I would
invest a ton of time glassing if that and that
that can take two different approaches. One is truly just
(13:50):
glassing where you're sitting in the truck, sitting on a
high point watching something like that. If that's not an
option in your area, maybe set stands for the upcoming
hunting season.
Speaker 6 (14:01):
More of observation stands.
Speaker 8 (14:03):
You're there, you're hunting, but instead of hunting, you know,
one little tight funnel right outside of a betting area,
get out on an open oak ridge or an oak
flat where you can see a couple hundred yards with
your binoculars through the timber both directions, and you're hunting
and you're in the game with a good solid wind direction.
But you're also in a spot where you can glass
and move and then just be ready to move quickly
(14:24):
once you do identify a target buck. But you have
to kind of pull back from hunt mode and go
into more even if it's a scout slash hunt, a
hanging hunt type thing, just to get a good vantage
point on some other areas.
Speaker 6 (14:35):
But you're going to have to.
Speaker 8 (14:36):
Cover more country to be able to be able to
try to find one. It's all going to focus on
finding them. And I would probably move my cameras around
quite a bit.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
Where would you move them or I guess and this
is you know, this is throughout the summer too, So
are you banking on any sort of summer shift or
bucks changing as velvet is about to shed too?
Speaker 6 (14:54):
Yeah, I would.
Speaker 8 (14:55):
I would definitely be moving, you know, as you go
through August. We usually if we get a big wind
of enter something will put acorns on the ground. I
would move off the edge of the soybean fields and
stuff the traditional summer spots. I would find you know,
trails and stuff in the betting areas close to where
there is solid mass crops, you know, And I would
focus on white oaks in a lot of area. They're
going to be the earlier of the acorns and they're
(15:16):
far preferred. So I would definitely shift to shift the
cameras to that, and then shift my strategy. Try to
have a two prong approach where you've moved the cameras
to better and newer locations, and then I would also
plan on you know, physically glassing through hunts or through
whatever whatever that takes.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
So I would you think twenty years ago and think
of some of the bucks that you've killed over the years,
how often did you have August intel of those deer?
Speaker 8 (15:45):
I would say even twenty years ago, we probably had
intel of some kind on all of.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Them in that summertime frame.
Speaker 8 (15:52):
Yep, in the summertime frame, either through glassing. We actually
one buck in particular, which was approximately twenty years ago,
I can remember we was a brand new property and
we had a friend in town from out of the area,
and we all divided up in July before a Canadian
fishing trip and jumped up in the stands or in
shooting huts, and he told us he saw this buck
(16:15):
and like the way he described it, like, we're like,
this guy's from back east.
Speaker 6 (16:20):
His name, he's a great friend.
Speaker 8 (16:21):
His name's Bob, and we're like, hops, probably doesn't know.
He probably saw one hundred and sixty inch ten pointer,
you know, and thought that was that. So we located
that deer through glassing to appease Bob and sort of
ourselves before we the next day, before we left for Canada,
we put some corn out there, put a camera and
these were cameras you had to pull the chip, you know,
(16:43):
all that stuff, and left went on our fishing trip,
came back and there was two bucks there on that camera,
one of which I killed, which was the one that
scored two fourteen. The other one I still think about this.
We never saw the other one again, and he had
to be close to one ninety, maybe because they were
both somewhat equal in that trail camera picture, but that
(17:04):
those were the bucks that Bob had seen, which we
identified through glassing and then moved in and actually got
hard evidence with a picture through specifically moving a camera
over there.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Now, let's get into what Jeff Sturge's perspective is on
the topic. Might be totally different than everyone else here,
let's get into it. I can't find a buck to hunt.
I don't know of one right now based off of
summer intel.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
What do I do?
Speaker 6 (17:35):
Now, You're probably doing a great job.
Speaker 9 (17:37):
The majority of lands that hold the mature and this
isn't like one hundred percent rule, but it's probably ninety.
It's up there, it's high, but the majority of the
box will hold. The lands that hold the best box
here in the summertime do not hold the same box
here in the fall.
Speaker 6 (17:52):
And there's nothing magical about it.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
You know.
Speaker 9 (17:55):
I've been on over fourteen hundred properties to analyze them
for an entire day in twenty one years and twenty
six states, and I see the same.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
Thing over and over and over again.
Speaker 9 (18:05):
Mature bucks have one habitat requirement during the summertime and
another habitat requirement in the fall.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
That habitat merk requirement might go back.
Speaker 9 (18:15):
End of winter to spring to what it was during
the summertime, so they have different areas, and even scientific
studies will show that there's often a barbell movement to
mature box where they spend forty percent of their time here,
forty percent of their time here, twenty percent of the
time in between.
Speaker 6 (18:32):
Well, if you look at the habitat.
Speaker 9 (18:33):
They need during the summertime, they need quality summer food.
So a lot of times if you're seeing big groups
of box, you're probably not hunting giant hardwoods in Kentucky, Pennsylvania,
or up north swamps in the Northern States, it's probably
because they're out in ag areas.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Well.
Speaker 9 (18:49):
If they're hitting ag areas or aunt alfalfa soybeans, those
are all gone. Once the alfalfa frost out k October,
it's almost worthless. We're surrounded by hundreds of acres of alfalfa,
and those that doesn't drive the deer herd. In drives
the deer herd in May, June, July, August, especially after
the cuttings. When it comes to October, November, December and beyond,
(19:10):
it does not, and so that summer food that they
craved all summer is gone. So a mature buck is willing.
He's got a home range five times greater than a
doll family group. He's going to find quality food that
is unpressured, and he wants quality fall food in winter
food which is not the same as the summer. Also,
(19:30):
he wants high overstory and shade during the summertime. He
can't crash his velvet antlers to that high stem count hardwood, regen,
and briers that he would prefer to live in during October, November, December, January, February, March.
In fact, he browses there, lives there during the daylight.
He can't live there with his velvet during the summertime.
(19:50):
So not only does his food source change, his cover
sources changed too. So if you're building a property on
private land or fall food plots, not only are you
you're helping your hunt out obviously by positioning those bucks
on your land here in the falling off the summer,
but you're also giving the deer what they need the
most too. They don't need your food during the summertime,
but they desperately need it in the pre.
Speaker 6 (20:11):
Winter winter post winter.
Speaker 9 (20:13):
So if you're focusing your food efforts in that time,
you're helping the critters and the wildlife and the deer,
and at the same time you're helping your hunt too,
and so that's a good thing. And I can honestly
say that we have about of the two thirds of
the one hundred percent of the box that we expect
to see and target this year. All our target bucks,
(20:34):
we're seeing about a third of them right now. We
identified two of them on a cruise the other night
around the neighborhood and they were about a mile from
the property. In October, November, December, our home range will
be where they live. And I'm not saying this to brag.
My neighbor last year sent me we had shot. I
(20:54):
wounded a buck that was a six year old. Unfortunately,
he is one of the ones we saw in the neighborhood,
which was a really good thing the other night ll beams.
But anyways, we shot two of the other ones, and
my neighbor said, well, that was only bucks we were after, So.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
I don't even know if I'm gonna come back to hunt.
I thought he would have he's one hundred acres.
Speaker 9 (21:13):
Off the edge of us. I thought he would have
had other mature bucks to shoot. But he positions his
food source and I've talked to him about this, but
he positions his food source so it's right up against
our property. Well, all the bucks that hit his food
live and reside on our property during the daylight. He
sent me a text saying that he hadn't seen anywhere
else but the last three years he sees those bucks
all summer long, and then by late October November, he
(21:36):
doesn't see him anymore, and we shoot him on our land,
And it's because of cover and food source positioning. I'd
rather he actually take his food away from us, develop
his own core betting area. Then he can develop separate
buck movements and for that we get potentially twice as
much or fifty percent more mature bucks in the area
(21:57):
that we could all hunt and enjoy.
Speaker 6 (21:58):
So I'd actually rather see that and try to help
them out.
Speaker 9 (22:01):
And it's not necessarily it is a competition thing to
some extent, but at the same time, if you help
each other out, and I could think you can build
a better dear overall, that helps out the entire neighborhood.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Over the years, I feel that Jeff has educated a
lot of people on core and non core bucks. And
when you really want to be holding deer and I
think his perspective is extremely relatable. On a smaller parcel.
More likely, you can't hold a bunch of mature bucks
the entire year. They're going to be out in different areas. So,
hearing that from Jeff, if you're sitting in that exact
(22:33):
position right now, you should feel a lot better. Now
let's get into what Don Higgins thinks on this exact topic.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I can't find a buck to hunt now? What keep looking?
Speaker 10 (22:45):
I mean bucks that you know in early falls, starting
around September one, when they start shitting velvet bachelor groups
start breaking up, bucks start shifting their ranges, moving from
their summer range to their fall range. I get a
lot of bucks on camera in the fall that I
did not have pictures of in the summer. If you
(23:06):
got a specific goal, no matter what that goal is,
it could be you know, one hundred and forty inches,
or it could be booner. If you haven't found that
buck yet, keep looking. Don't compromise. You know, that's another
thing that will separate good hunters from greade hunters. Great
hunters don't compromise. When they've got a goal, they stick
to that goal no matter how long it takes to
(23:27):
reach it. They keep striving for that goal without compromise,
So don't give up.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
How important do you think it is to identify Maybe
a lot of people maybe only have one or two spots.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
And so.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
For those people, if typically bucks show up in September
or October or November, would you tell them not to
panic and stick the plan?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
No?
Speaker 10 (23:50):
What I would tell them is, why do you only
have one or those spots? Is your wife telling you
can only hunt here?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
There?
Speaker 10 (23:56):
Nobody's tied down. It's not like we're kids depending on
our parents to take sut up to the woods and
drop us off. We got a call a free adult man.
Nobody's tying you down to two hunting properties. Get off
your butt and go make something for yourself. Yeah, if
you want to kill giants, there's no excuses.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
There's Don's perspective, and I think there's a common theme
that if you've been listening along to each in every
single episode, that a lot of this comes down to
simply effort. All the tactics that are in here, I
understand they don't sound groundbreaking, but it comes down to
effort and your ability to spread out your options to
up your success and there's still time to do that,
(24:34):
and hopefully don just encourage you to consider that before
the season officially kicks off. And now we have Thomas
Milsna and his perspective on not having a buck to hunt,
or not knowing eyone, or sitting there with no intel
what to do? And should you panic? All of my
friends are sending me giant velvet bucks. They already have
(24:54):
a rolodex of Target bucks, and I'm sitting here feeling
like a loser on a single buck yet hunt?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
What do I do? And do I panic? No?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
No, don't panic. That's the worst thing you can do.
Right early in the season like this, I never get
worried now. I always go back and lean on that
historical data.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
So again, most of the time, if I'm hunting a
deer that's five or six years page, I've got a
year or two of history with him at least. So
if I go back and I'm if I was anticipating
that this buck was going to be around early season
and I can't find him in the summertime, then I
might be a little bit more worried. But even then
I don't worry too much because earlier in the season
(25:38):
there's a lot more cover, there's a lot more food.
Deer move a lot less, plain and simple. So if
he's just not getting pushed around, he's happy where he is.
As fall progresses, he's going to shift a little bit, right,
So that's the biggest thing to think about. If you
were chasing a buck last year or watching a target
buck last year, potential target buck an up and comer,
and now he's on your target list this year. If
(25:59):
you were watching him last year and you were seeing
him on your property in the end of October, then
don't be alarmed if you don't see him in August. Right,
it's a completely different timeframe. If you were seeing him
in October last year and then October rolls around this
year and you're still not seeing him, then I would
worry a little bit, and maybe I would just start wondering, like,
did he get killed in his early season range by
(26:20):
some other hunter that was anticipating him being there early
in the season. Right, Every property is different, every buck
is different. The best thing you can do is track
each buck individually, you know, focus on those deer on
their target deer, maintain or collect information that you can
log for that historic data and really really try to
(26:42):
dial in the areas of your property and what the
habitat has to offer them. You know, that's like the
next level of it. Right after anticipating where deer are
going to be, Well, ask the question why are they there?
Is there more cover based on the time of the year,
Is there more food based on the time of the year.
You know, all those things go hand in hand with
the pressure element that we face all the time. So
(27:03):
don't panic if it's summertime, unless that book is a
buck that you normally see there in the summer, and
then he's normally their early season, you're trying to hunt him.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
If you normally see him later.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
In the fall and he's not there in the summer,
they're going to shift their home range as always. You
know that buck might shift miles or he might shift
over the ridge. Every situation is a little bit different.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
That's been not at least we have Mark Nyan to close
out this episode and he's going to tell you about
his perspective on this topic for right now and also
later in the season.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
So here we go.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
We're going to close this out strong with Mark Kenyan.
All right, all my friends, they are sending me pictures
of a big deer. They're saying, this is going to
be my best year yet, and I'm sitting here and
I feel like a lame o. I haven't found any
deer yet. I have my cameras up. I'm starting to
panic because i just want to find a deer that
I'll be excited to hunt.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
What do you do if you're sitting in that position
right now? Yeah, well, hear me.
Speaker 11 (27:58):
It does depend on when somebody's listening to this right now.
If if somebody's listening to this right now in August,
you know, late summer, that's one thing. If someone were
to be listening to this in season, it's another. I'll
give both answers to help someone out in either situation.
If it's in the summer and they don't have a buck,
they're exciting to hunt, it's understandable to be disappointed. And
(28:20):
I've had a couple of years or that that's the case.
I'm going this's a bummer, but I'm not in panic mode.
So much changes from the end of summer until hunting
season arrives. There's there's several major shifts. Right There's what
a lot of us called the September shift. So when
bucks lose their velvet, you get a reshuffling of the deck.
(28:40):
I've always found like somewhere on like thirty percent, give
or take, something like that shifts to a slightly different range.
So there's gonna be new bucks coming in, there's gonna
be some bucks leaving. So I'm not you know, what's
there in August or July is oftentimes different than what's
going to be there in October when I start out,
So right out the gate, I know that's going to happen,
So I'm not worried yet. Number Two, As that rut
(29:03):
starts getting closer and closer, you start getting more movement,
more deer moving in. I have some properties that simply
don't have a lot of bucks until the rut, Like
one farm that I hunt just I know because of
the habitat type that's there, it's not a summer place.
But come late October, all of a sudden, bucks start
trolling through. So you can sometimes learn the DNA of
your farm or the DNA of your area and just
(29:26):
come to understand that some places just aren't going to
have that. So hopefully that's something you've come to learn
about your places, and you know, whether or not that's
the case. But if you're in an area where it
historically is always held deer in the summer, and you
know that usually the deer that show up in the
summer are also the deer that are there in the fall.
There's places like that too, And if it's a given
year that's not the case, and like holl of Smokes,
(29:48):
there's no mature bucks this year, then I've got some worries.
Now I'm thinking, like, what's going on? Why is this
year so different than every other year? Is there EHD
has something else going on on that I'm you know,
that's going to mess me up for the whole year.
If I'm in that situation and I have real concerns
because of how different this is in the past, while
(30:08):
I still know that things still could change, I would
at this point be thinking, Okay, how do I diversify? Right, Like,
the key to safe investing is a diversified portfolio, and
I think that diversified to your portfolio is always good.
I did too, So this is something that I'm every
year of trying to get a little better at this,
and I'm trying to provide myself this kind of safety net.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
But that is having.
Speaker 11 (30:34):
Multiple options, so never being dependent on just one spot
or just one property or one square mile or one zone.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Whatever.
Speaker 11 (30:40):
It is having as many different areas as possible, so
you don't find yourself in a position with nothing to
hunt or nothing you're excited about. You've always got an
option B, an option C, another zone, another area, another,
even if it's just public land, and you're like, hey,
if my core spot that I've always hunted the past
doesn't have one, at least I I know three or
(31:01):
four other public land spots that I can go dive into,
learn more about, and find something fun to do over there.
I think that's a great thing to have in mind.
I've had some years where deer that I think should
be around aren't around, and I was so excited about
them that I wanted to try to confirm like life
or death, or try to refine them or find something else.
So that's why I start casting nets. So I start
(31:23):
driving around summer evenings and glassing fields and the surrounding neighborhoods,
like imagine like growing concentric circles around where they used
to be and trying to find that deer again or
find another deer. I'm really excited about and then start
trying to get new access, so you're trying to find
that deer and then start knocking on doors around them
and see if you can get access to where a
deer you are excited hunt is now, so that if
(31:45):
it doesn't show back up on your place in October
or November, you have those options. So I think those
are a couple different ways of going about this. There's
the sit back and relax and feel confident that something's
going to happen because you have other options, or because
you know that things do circle around, or I think
there's to seek it out and go find other opportunities.
(32:05):
And I think, you know, some of the conversations that
we've had are around like what separates good from grape
or what separates you know, those who are consistently killing.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
A deer versus like every year killed one.
Speaker 11 (32:15):
And I think like the ones who always have opportunities
are typically the ones who don't just kick back and
say whatever. They're the ones that, hey, if it's not happening,
I'm gonna make it happen somewhere else or in some
other way. And so I think that's when it comes
down to, like do you have the interest and the
willingness to seek them out. In that case, in season,
(32:36):
if I don't have a buck to hunt, it's much
more of that. So while like the August thing, I
might be a little bit more like, Okay, it's probably
gonna happen. Still hopefully I'm going a diversified position already,
but I'm probably not panicked. But if it's in October
or November it's still there's nothing to hunt, then it's like, okay,
it's go time. And if it's go time and there's
(32:59):
nothing to hunt, and it's like all right, I have
to go seek it out elsewhere unless I have different goals,
like if your goals aren't around, I have to kill
a big drive buck. And instead of like, hey, I
want to spend time get my kids out hunting, I
want to kill some doves and whatever comes through, whatever
you know, whatever happens to be here is fine.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Like if that's what make you happy and great, enjoy it,
no worries.
Speaker 11 (33:19):
But if you are like dedicated to killing a five
year old or dedicated to killing a certain caliber deer,
you can't kill it if it's not there. And so
in that case it's time to pound wars. It's time
to explore public land. Hopefully you have a diversified portfolio
of access. It's time to check all those other places out.
Oh and then here's another really important thing to know.
(33:43):
I've also been in this position where I thought I
didn't have anything to hunt because my cameras weren't showing it,
and I made the mistake of assuming that was like
gospel truth property. Yeah, it's important not to live and
die by your cameras, because I've also thought, oh, this
dear's gone, and then I didn't hunt for a while,
but then finally, all right, I better go out there,
(34:03):
and so I.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Do go hunt in the band. There he is.
Speaker 11 (34:05):
He's just been avoiding the cameras the whole time too.
So make sure that you are actually confirming presence of
the deer with your eyes yourself, rather than depending on
our technology. These tools are great, but do not be
too dependent on them, because there's a whole lot slipping
by that we never see. And if you're not out
there in the field hunting or scouting and doing it
(34:26):
yourself old fashioned woodsmanship and hunting. If you're not doing that,
you are not in a position to make a defining
decision of whether or not there's a buck to hunt
or not.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Yeah, I think that's a really healthy outlook.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
And that was really the general consensus across the board
of hey, don't panic, and there is a shift that
is very real and hopefully, if you have a good farm,
your habitat's only going to get better throughout the leading
up the season and during the actual season when you'll
have an opportunity to hunt them. And that was the
general consensus. The other general consensus was keep looking, like,
(35:02):
just don't totally bank on one will show up, because
one shows up every single year, and go out and
maybe get an option, you know, two, three, four, five,
sixty seven.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
You can never have too many options.
Speaker 5 (35:14):
You really can't. And I think that it's a super
exciting time. And if you have one on camera, maybe
start looking at, Okay, where may he shift and anticipate
that maybe you can knock on a door and get permission,
or maybe the farm's large enough anything, I think he's
going to shift over to this direction. And maybe you
have enough data and intel over the years where you
(35:34):
feel like you're you're.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Just waiting for everything to unfold. And that's an exciting
place to be.
Speaker 5 (35:39):
Next week, we're diving into an exciting question and dilemma
to where you're just got access to something brand new.
It's late August, it's kind of late to do. It's
too late to do a spring food plot. It may
or may not be too late to do some major projects.
Where you go season is right around the corner, and
(35:59):
that'll be next week.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
There, you guys have it.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
I hope you enjoyed this episode and what I gathered
from this expert panel on the one topic that we
all get a little wound up about.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
If you're sitting here with no.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
Deer on the farm that you own, you manage, you lease,
you pay really close attention to. The thesis is do
not panic, but think about what deer may show up
from last year. That's probably number one. Number two, do
you have good fall habitat? And if the answer is no,
you still have time to get an alternate plan and
(36:34):
make sure that you're not counting on luck, you're not
magically anticipating a big deer to show up. And ultimately,
if you have a bunch of bucks on camera right
now and you're feeling awesome, but once again, the fall
habitat is not going to be ideal. I wouldn't be
feeling as confident and I've done I've been on both
ends of this perspective throughout the years, and I get
(36:54):
a lot less nervous when I don't have Summer Bucks
on camera. But I do know the fall habitat is solid.
So I hope you guys enjoyed this. Next week, we're
diving into a different can of worms and those that
just got a new farm, or just got a new lease,
or just knocked on the door and is basically starting
a ground zero with the season right around the corner.
(37:16):
We're gonna share what all these folks would do before
the season and what they wouldn't do, which may be
more important.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
So until then, we'll see you next time. See you
Host
Mark Kenyon
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