Ep. 942: What Would Kip Adams Do?

This week on the show I’m running Kip Adams, of the National Deer Association, through our What Would You Do gauntlet, giving us insight into exactly how he'd handle some of the most challenging deer hunting scenarios I could throw at him.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile
hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light
Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on
the show, I'm joined by Kip Adams of the National
Dear Association for another episode of our what would You
Do series, in which we are running him through some
of the toughest hunting circumstances and situations I could throw
at him. Really all right, welcome back to the Wired

(00:42):
to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light and
their Camel for Conservation initiative. And today we're wrapping up
are what would you Do series. If you've been listening,
you know the gist, you know the format, But if
you're new, what this entails is a guest comes on
the episode and I run them through a series of

(01:03):
different specific hypothetical hunting scenarios. I might propose, Hey, it's
this date and you're in this place and this happens,
what would you do? And then that's what we do,
through many different topics, many different regions, different ideas, different challenges,
different curve balls, to see how these people process these

(01:23):
types of scenarios in the field, how they think them through,
how they take action, how they get from point A
to point B. And today's guest is Kip Adams from
the National Deer Association. And this is a really interesting
one to wrap up on because he's got a perspective
that is unique compared to everybody else that we've talked
to this year in our series, but also compared to

(01:44):
almost all of the other what would you do episodes
we've done over the course of the last five or
six years. He's a Kip is not just a great
deer hunter, he is also a incredibly experienced, well read,
and diversely experienced wildlife biologist and land manager. He works
as the Director of Conservation or geez I think actually

(02:06):
chief conservation Officer now for the National Deer Association. He's
worked on probably hundreds of different properties across the nation,
working with people on their hunting plans, their land management strategies,
habitat improvement projects, and much larger deer and conservation related issues.
But then he also has been able to take all

(02:28):
that insight, all that information and then applied it to
his own hunting world and life, where he owns and
manages a property in Pennsylvania that he's been hunting and
working on for I think decades now and killing mature
bucks consistently with a whole bunch of other folks, family
and friends the hunter too, and also managing for healthy

(02:49):
habitat and a healthy deer herd across the board. So
he's able to check a whole lot of boxes with
this diverse set of expertise that is really unique that
I think gives us in his answers a level of
depth that most people don't have. So we're going to
run k through a few management related questions, but a

(03:10):
lot of hunting questions. But what he brings is this
scientific perspective that I think colors things in a unique
and really helpful way. So that's the plan for today's episode.
It's a great one. I think it's perfect for those
of us who are kicking off our hunting seasons soon.
Kip's going to give us all something to think about
as opening Day and the coming weeks unfold in what

(03:31):
should be a very very exciting few months here to come.
So that is our game plan. My couple, I guess
housekeep items for you today would be number one. The
Wired Hunt hats are still available. The brand new Wired
Hunt shirts are still available as well over at the
med Eater store. Excuse me. We also have a lot
going on with podcasts in the met Eater and Wired

(03:53):
Hunt world. Of course, there's this show, the flagship Wired
Hunt Show. We also have the Foundations episodes the ton
Peterson which hopefully you're listening to every Tuesday. Those are
Tony's quick kind of monologues on some different deer hunting issue,
kind of like a foundational, really important deer hunting issue
every week. Great place to learn, great place to up
your hunting game. Our Back forty podcast is still ongoing.

(04:17):
That comes out every Wednesday with Jake Hoefer talking to
a panel of eight different expert guests tackling some tough
situations as well some interesting questions. So tune into that
one for a diverse set of insights on specific questions.
I'm loving what I'm hearing there so far. And then
of course across the rest of the media to network,
you know, depending on what you're interested, and we've got

(04:38):
something for you. Cal in the Field is Cal's we
can review podcasts. There's just great conservation and hunting and
fishing related news there to stay up to data on
what's happening across the world. Of course, the Mediator podcast,
the media or trivia podcast, that's all a lot of
fun and very interesting. Clay's podcast Bear Grease, the Backwoods

(05:01):
University podcast, which is on the Bear Grease feed is
brand new and that's really interesting. The American West podcast
with Dan Floores was kicked off this summer and that
is fascinating learning about the history of the American West
and much of what's gone there gone on there with wildlife.
So man, there's so much to tune into right now.

(05:21):
We're pumping it out at a record pace, and I
hope you are checking out all of these different shows
we have. Of course on YouTube, we've got just an
endless array of new videos too that are going to
ramp up as the season progresses, so lots to check out,
and of course hopefully there's lots for you to be
doing out there in the field too. So if your
season is kicking off like mine will be. Let me

(05:44):
see here. It's twoth It's August twenty fifth when I'm
recording this. By the time you listen to the next podcast,
I will be on my first hunt the year, which
is very exciting. Maybe you will be too, So if
you are best of luck out there, and without any
further ado, let's get to my chat with mister Kip
Adams of the National Deer Association, which I should have

(06:04):
mentioned at the top is truly the premiere conservation organization
or whitetail deer across the nation. If you are not
aware of what the Deer Association is doing, please go
to Deer Association dot com. After you listen to my
chat with Kip. Here we go, all right. Joining me

(06:28):
back on the show a many time returning guest is
Kip Adams. Welcome back, Kip, Hey, thanks Mark, good to
be here, Good to see you, and I always appreciate
you taking time to chat. It's been a lot of
years now. We're on a shared zoom call the other
day and it was mentioned that you had been with
the National Deer Association or the qtmay or is it

(06:50):
twenty three years now? Is that right?

Speaker 3 (06:51):
Twenty three years last week? Yes, it has gone fast.
It's been a great ride, and well you know how
quickly time fliers. But I don't feel anywhere near old
enough to have been anywhere for that long, let alone
one place that long brought up here. Yeah, it's a
twenty three year or so. Pretty pretty crazy.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, that's incredible. You've you've been kind of an icon
of our community in that role you've played there. And
and so I'll say for everyone, thank you for what
you've done there for more than two two decades now.
You've certainly helped a lot of folks, taught me a
lot along the way. And all that said, though, kid,
today I want to unfortunately run you through the ringer.

(07:36):
I'm gonna toss you into a but a bunch of
challenging situations. We're gonna run you through the gauntlet of
sorts to see how you would handle this stuff. And
I think you know, we've we've talked to a lot
of really good deer hunters, but you are a really
good deer hunter. Plus, you are someone who has a
tremendous amount of experience from a deer biology perspective, from

(07:59):
a land managed perspective, from a you know, a thirty
thousand foot overview. You've worked with and learned from managers
and state you know, managing agencies and biologists from all
over the country, so I'm very curious to see how
all of that colors how you hunt and how you
make hunting decisions. So that's that's kind of what I'm

(08:19):
most interested in as we as we kick this one off, Kip,
So you know the basic gist of this format. I've
kind of given you the rundown. So are you ready
just to just jump into this and see where things go?

Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah, I'm all set. That's gonna be fun. Let's let's go.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Okay, So this first question, let's imagine that you just
picked up a brand new hunting lease. All right, very exciting.
You're gonna be hunting a new spot. You just picked
up this lease. It's in Virginia, and you've never hunted
here before. The problem is, you just signed the contract
right now. It's late August, hunting season opens very soon,

(08:56):
and you've it's a long term lease, so you know
you're gonna hunting this place for you know, three, four
or five years. You have this great runway ahead of you,
but you know nothing about the property, you know nothing
about the neighborhood, and the hunting season is just weeks away.
What do you do in the next few weeks? To
start developing a plan because you have no idea what

(09:19):
dr are out here. You don't know how many bucks
there are, how many dos there are, how many you
should shoot, what kind of hunting or management plan you
should have, and the deadline is very quickly approaching. What
do you do with this short term turnaround that you
have before the season momens? To just wrap your head
around the plan?

Speaker 3 (09:38):
All right, Well, the first thing I'm going to do is,
as I'm a huge fan of on X, I use
on X every day, I'm going to go to on
X and take a look airily at what's going on there,
just to give myself a good feel for what is
in the neighborhood. And so many people that we work
with look at their property and if I'm visiting a property,
you know, they'll ask me like, hey, what should I

(09:59):
plant here? Or what would you do there? And the
first thing I always do is I want to see
what is in your property or on it, but I
want to look at the whole neighborhood. That's where it
all will start for me. So I want to look
at it from the air and just see, all right,
not only what is there, but what does it look like?
On the neighbors and a couple of properties removed, just
to wrap my head around, all, right, what am I

(10:19):
getting myself into? Is it mostly forested? Is it all forested?
Is there some ag land? Is it a mix of open?
What do we have relative to the neighbors? So, for example,
I've been on properties that were mostly wooded in a
sea of open areas. So I mean that was like
all the cover, most of the best cover was there.
So that would be my first step, and I would.

(10:42):
I'm lucky in that I have worked with a lot
of great wildlife biologists and a lot of really good
deer and habitat researchers, and so I've tried to learn
from all of those because as you mentioned, I've been
with QDMA or NDA now for twenty three years. I
have been managing or conduct and research on deer for
over thirty years. But I am first and foremost of

(11:04):
deer hunting. So that's where it all begins and that's
what it all ends for me. So with all of
the new research that I keep up with, I am
always thinking about that from a hunter's perspective, how can
I use this to, you know, to get myself closer
to deer involved or people that I'm mentoring, how can
we get closer? So I would go to Onyx. I
would look airily and say, all right, where am I starting,

(11:27):
you know, just so that I get to feel for
what type of environment am I in. There's parts of
Virginia that are solid forests. There's parts of Virginia that
are all national forests. I hope this lease is not
in the national forest. Nothing against the national forest, but
you know so much that is just all over mature
hardwoods and it's just a monoculture of that everywhere, you know,
very low quality habitat from a deer perspective. So anyway,

(11:51):
I want to see what am I starting at, so
that I know forested open mix the more importantly, mark
what is in that neighborhood, Like am I hunting similar
features as what the neighbors are or do I have
something very different that I can key in it. So
that's my starting point.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
Okay, So so one follow up, what about One of
the things I was thinking about is I was considering
this situation would be just determining like what should I
even think about shooting, Like not even knowing what's out there,
not having started, you know, really developing, whether it be
an inventory or lack of a better term inventory, you

(12:30):
being someone who's pretty well, very very well informed and
making those decisions the right way. I'm wondering, you know,
is there anything Is it too late to get a
survey of the population. Is it too late to really
get get your head wrapped around you know, what's out
there so you can make harvest decisions in a better way.
Or is that first year at this point you know
you're just gonna be learning as you go.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
I think there's gonna be a lot of well, I
think there's always some learning as you go, but there
is still time to collect some great data on you
know what, dear, I'd be on the property. I've done
a summer camera survey on our farm in northern Pennsylvania
every year for over twenty years now, and in fact we're
in the middle of it right now. That survey always
ends Labor Day weekend, so that is a great way

(13:14):
to get a good idea of numbers of bucks on
the property. Now, granted, some of these deer are going
to leave and they're they're ready bound. Now is when
they start shifting from that summer to following, but others
will come on. So it gives me a snapshot in
time of numbers of bucks on the property. From that,
then I can get an smate the number of dos,
which then helps me calculate the target dough harvest, like
do we need to be shooting any dose? And if yes,

(13:37):
is it a few or is it a lot? That
also gives me a good idea of age structure the
bucks that are there, because I want to go into
season with realistic expectations, you know, and I would love
to kill, you know, one hundred and eighty inch deer,
but you know what, I'm my farm in Pennsylvania. That's
not going to happen. If I go in every season
that is a goal. I Am not going to have
any fun and hunting is about having fun. So I

(14:00):
think the more local knowledge I have, it allows me
to develop more realistic expectations, which then allows me to
have more fund So that's very important. So from that perspective,
I would look at every year the Deer Association produces
an annual Deer report. I would look at that for
Virginia and see, hey, what is the annual buck harvest,

(14:20):
annual doe harvest, and change structure of the buck harvest
to give me a feel er. You know, is this
state shooting mostly younger deer or is it most of
the older deer? Now this is the state wide look.
But then I would go to the Virginia dn RS
or what DW are they are now Division of wallaf
Resources their website to see what additional information do they

(14:41):
have relative to the deer herd in the area where
I'm going to be. Some states have awesome data on
the website harvest numbers, age structures, et cetera, by county
or by township or by DMU. So I would learn
what I could from the website with that. It might
be the part part of the state that this lease
is in, you know, it has a great age structure

(15:03):
relative to the rest of the state, or it might
be the other end inspective. But I would learn everything
I could from that. Then I would make a phone
call to the state Wilife Agency, say, but I would
make sure I did my homework first. No state, dearbile
just wants to receive a call from me, you or
anybody else saying hey, where should I go hunting? Or
what's it like? However, if he or she gets a

(15:26):
call from a hunter saying I'm going to be hunting
in your state this year. I have done my homework.
I see that on average, you harvest you know, two
bucks per square mile. You have pretty good age structure
to show the look. I've scoured your website, I've read
your resources. Hey, here are some things I can't find.
Is there anything in addition you can help me with.
They are much more likely than to be good friends

(15:48):
and share information to let you know, So that would
be a great way to get some local intel or
you know, you may be able to work with somebody
in that area. Now, one thing that say, I know
nobody in the area where we are through well through NDA.
We work closely with white Tail Properties. Wait Tail Properties

(16:11):
has like four hundred land specialists throughout the US. I
promise you I could call or look at the white
Tail property's website, find a land specialist in that area,
call him or her and get awesome local information on Hey,
what's the scoop on the local dere are you know?
They you know, will be able to tell hey, people
in this area, if it's brown, it's down, they're shooting everything,

(16:34):
or ooh, that area you're in. They are far more
likely to wait until dear or older. So that would
be a great opportunity to meet somebody locally, get the
lay of the land, you know, from somebody who knows
deer and deer hunting. So those would be my steps.
Look at our DAR report, scholar, the state agency website,
talk to the state Wileife agency, so I can get
a local biologist, and then talk to somebody local.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Strong, strong suggestion. Here's another one we're going to put
you on. Well, well, let's play it out. Let's play
it out this Virginia scenario a little bit further. Let's
say you start your process and you have one spot
you can plant a food plot. So you plan a
food plot in August. At some point, you go back
out on September seventh to go see it for the

(17:22):
first time since you planted. And let's say you planted
a green plot, a diverse blend of various grains and
Nebraskas of clover, some stuff like that. You go back
September seventh and it is in bad shape. It is dry,
it is weedy, there is very little of the kind

(17:43):
of growth you were hoping for. What do you do
to salvage this situation. It's your only plot, it's your
only food. You were hanging a lot of hopes on
this thing.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
What now, Well, one thing that I would definitely take
that opportunity to learn a little bit about numbers of
deer in the area, because when I planted that, I
would have also put an exclusion cage on it, so
that when I go back September seventh, say it's been
dry or whatever, and boyd there's not much growing, I
could at least look at what's growing inside that exclusion case.

(18:15):
An exclusion cage, you know, you know, a three to
four foot diameter you know, wire structure staked down so
that deer candy what's inside? This gives me a great
idea on what was the germination of that seed like?
And then what is the pressure, you know, grazing pressure
from deer, who who's eating it? So I putting exclusion
cage on every one of my food plots just for that,

(18:37):
just so I know, hey, how hard are they hit us?
So when I went back and looked at that, even
if outside maybe it's been really dry, kind of like
it's been here in northern Pennsylvania this summer, it is
super dry. Many of my food plots, you know, would
look horrible just no rain. But every one of those
has an exclusion cage on it, and even in the
ones that are really tiny er, I'm doing good. I

(19:00):
can still measure the difference inside and exclusion cage as
out because there's no pressure at all inside, So that
mark would let me know, Okay, one, yeah, we need
some rain. I don't have much food here. But is
the food any taller inside that cage or not? If
it's not, that's a good sign that deer aren't, you know,
just eating everything right to the ground. If it is

(19:22):
considerably taller inside, that lets me know. One, there is
not enough food in this neighborhood for the numbers of
deer that are here. That will let me know, Okay,
you know what, I am absolutely going to take at
least one dough this year. That'll be my first step
in trying to figure out how many I should take,
because there should be enough food in that area for deer,

(19:44):
regardless of food plots. Food pots should be there like
as a supplement, so you know, if I'm looking in
that food inside that exclusion cage is a lot taller,
you know, Regardless of how many deer are there. There
are more deer than there is food avail, so that
that's good information for me to know. And I'm used
that to either you know, as I'm figuring out how
many dos I will shoot, but also probably what I

(20:06):
can expect from a buck standpoint, you know, a buck
quality standpoint, like nutritional standpoint, So that would be good
to know. Say, I get there, man, it's really dry. Okay,
I'm still happy that I have something that's in open
area because even if there's not a lot of food
in it, just the fact that it's open and different
from wooded areas, that's still an attraction point for deer.

(20:29):
So that's helpful to me. I also probably would be
doing a little drive through the neighborhood that day and
just looking at other either ag fields and or food
plots that I could see from the road to see like, okay,
how does my stuff compare to the neighbors? So to
the neighbors, is that stuff growing really good? You know?
Or yeah they're in tough shape as well, Because that

(20:51):
kind of you know, lets me know the playing field
when it comes time from an attraction end. Now, I
would have also looked at on X flipped on the
soil quality layer to know where that food plot is.
Am I giving myself the best chance to grow good
food there?

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Or not?

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Very simple to look and see, like, hey, ooh, the
quality of soil here is you know, much higher than
surrounding areas or you know, some properties. I have been
on people at food plots because that's the only open area.
But if you look at the soil profiles, you realize
it's some of the worst soil on the whole property,
Like that would be the last place to pick for them,
So that I would understand. Am I giving myself a

(21:30):
good chance to grow something good here if conditions are
right or not? So that will go in to let
me know how either Okay, I'm kind of in an
average situation if this isn't growing good, or now I'm
in a bad situation. Man, everybody else seems the neighbors
have way better food. Plus that will change my perspective
hunting wise, and where I'm picking, you know, two hangstands

(21:52):
that first year or or what I expect from the
first year on the lease.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Is there any scenario in which you would try to
make a last minute hail mary attempt to resurrect that
food plot to either replant it or supplement it or
do anything else.

Speaker 3 (22:11):
Yep. If it is say you say that the green plot,
say you know that I whatever I plant, it doesn't matter.
Say I get there and it's and is just not
at all what I was hoping. It's full of all
kinds of other weeds that aren't nutritious to deer that
I know will that time of the year, September seventh,
around Labor day, if Virginia is far enough south, I

(22:35):
still would have time to either spray that plot and
then broadcast winter wheat or winter rye or or brask
or something else that I could still get decent growth
out of that. Would you know, I could hunt through
the fallen into the winter. I would pick something that
is an annual plant, something that is going to grow
very very fast, put on as much tonnage as possible.

(22:59):
I'd have planted as late as Labor day in northern
Pennsylvania before you know, you don't get a lot of
growth out, but you get some. Virginia would be a
place that early September. If this thing is really really bad, yes,
you still have time for you know, one more planning
fingers crossed. You know, rain is coming, or maybe rain

(23:20):
is about right there, so you get farther north than that,
you still you still could do it. You could throw it,
you know, as you said, a hail Mary, even in
Pennsylvania around September seventh, just recognizing you're not going to
get a lot.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Now.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
If I'm looking at that plot and what I had
planned has germinated, it's just competing with some weeds and
you know needs rain, then I'm not going to replant it.
I may spread that to remove that competition from the weeds,
to give the things I have there every chance, you know,
to out compete it. You know, as soon as we
get some good rain. But all is not lost early

(23:55):
September at that latitude, there's still a chance to end
up with something decent.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
To Okay, that's good news, good news. Here's another hypothetical.
Let's say you own a one hundred acre farm and

(24:21):
you have been hunting this farm for a number of years,
but you've done it kind of by feel. I guess
you've been that person who's always been targeting a buck.
You should a doe here and there, but maybe you've
not been serious about it. That said You've been listening
to this podcast for years now, and you heard mister
Kip Adams come on the show last winter and say, hey,

(24:42):
you really got to take the dough harvest thing more seriously.
You heard it a year before when Nick Pinzoto came
on and said the same thing. You've heard it from
your state DNR. You've read about it in the magazine articles.
You're realizing, Oh, wow, maybe I need to take this
whole ant lilas harvest thing a little bit more seriously.
You've noticed there's tons of deer on my farm, you know,

(25:02):
every year, especially in the late season. I'm just seeing
a pile of deer out there, more and more deer
every year. I probably do need to do something about it.
So this year you've made it a goal that you
are going to take more does. You're going to kill
more does this year. But you also have two really
great target bucks on your farm this year that you're
very excited about that they've just reached that let's say

(25:26):
five year old mark that you've been hoping they would
get to, and you're just thrilled about that. You're sitting
here the night before opening day thinking to yourself, well,
I really want to kill does this year. I really
want to kill these bucks and I don't want to
spook these bucks while doing that. What do you do
to be able to achieve both of those goals somehow?

(25:48):
Moving to this season?

Speaker 3 (25:50):
Would I would shoot I would shoot Dose as early
as possible if given the chance. I'm not going to
pass a chance on one of those bucks to do that,
but I would shoot Dose early in the season, and
I would try to If I'm going to shoot multiple doughs,
I would try to do that from different stands, so

(26:10):
I'm not shooting them all from the same spot, and
I wouldn't necessarily shoot them from my best stand that
I thought I had chances to kill that bucket. And
the reason I say those is oftentimes, with the exception
of early early season like first or second day, which
can be very good times to kill mature bucks, you know,

(26:30):
they're still pretty particular. If you can hunt in September Pennsylvania,
we are essentially the beginning of October. We've kind of
missed that nice window in that September window to kill
those mature bucks. So often the best time to kill
him is once we get into late October or early November.
I love it. Our Pennsylvania farm, if we have most

(26:51):
of our dough harvest done in early to mid October,
we never get there, but we try because what that
allows us to do is spread doors harvest around throughout property.
Have it early such that when our rut comes, you know,
I tell you guys, like, have your dough harvest done
so all you have to do is focus on bucks
for the rest of the year. It's such a good

(27:12):
feeling to know, like I am solely focused here. I
don't have to worry about, you know, trying to be
a good steward and shoot my does later. I've already got,
you know, those doughs in the freezer, which that means
now I don't need well, Pennsylvania is at one buck state.
But some hunters get so nervous, like oh I just
got to get a dear in the freezer, so they
shoot a younger buck. Don't do that, shoot a dough sorry. Anyway,

(27:33):
I would shoot was early, I wouldn't necessarily kill it.
From my stand to, I think I have the best
chance at killing a mature bucket, and I would try
to spread the dough harvest out, you know, across the
property a little bit. If you have one hundred acres,
you definitely have an opportunity to be able to do that.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yep, Okay, that makes sense to me. That's uh, it's
it's something that I personally have have struggled with myself
doing the early doll harvest. But I know I need to.
I need to get get working sooner because the late,
the late stress trying to kill a dough or kill
a bunch of doughs late is always trying in December
when somehow you can see doughs all the time and

(28:13):
have a thousand shot opportunities when you're trying to kill
a buck, But then as soon as you're trying to
kill a dough, they somehow become incredibly elusive.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
So I agree, And you know what I want to
tell hunters is to make themselves feel feel good about it,
or to know because some people just aren't entirely sure. Yes,
Mark said, I should kill a dough or camp or
who everybody? You know what, there's a very simple way,
actually two simple ways of one. We talked about the
exclusion cages. Look look at that. You can tell that
food outside of those should absolutely be as high as

(28:44):
it is inside. If it's not you need to shoot
more does. That's very simple. Everybody can look at that. Also,
if when you shoot a dough because deer lay fat
on external to meat, when you skin that deer, there
are to be a big thick layer of fat own
the animal's body that you see. If that thick layer
of fat is not there, there's not enough food for

(29:06):
the deer neighborhood. You need to shoot more does or
even if you feel dressing that the kidneys should be
totally encased in fat. If you have a hard time
finding the kidneys because it just looks like fat lobs,
that is awesome. If you can see the kidneys, you
know very easily there's not enough food for the deer
in a neighborhood. So those are really simple ways to
let yourself feel good about. Okay, you know those deer,

(29:27):
they will make use of that. Oh, you know that
food if it's available, which makes their heavier, which is great,
which means bucks have bigger antlers, which is great. All
the things we want. So you don't have to be
a you know, a scientist or certainly not a rocket
scientist to determine is there enough food here or not?
So you know, look at the exclusion cage, look at
the fat on deer. It's very simple. Anybody can determine that.

(29:50):
And if you're not seeing that, shoot another dough.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Get to work. Okay, it's the night before opening day.
We'll say you're you're at home in Pennsylvania. H right,
opening day coming up, and you've got a big old
buck that you are there's one day you're very, very
excited to hunt this year, and as you mentioned that
first day or two. Okay, let me change this a
little bit. I'm going to take you to a stay

(30:15):
with a September opener. Okay, so so hit pause here.
We're going to Maryland, Maryland. All right, We're going to
Maryland with a September opener, and there's a big old
buck that you would like to hunt on this particular
property that you can have access to. Leading up to

(30:36):
opening day, you have had daylight photos of this buck.
This buck's been out and about. You know what it's
bead to feed pattern is. You've got it pretty dial.
You think like, all right, opening day should be great.
But the day arrives and you have two very warm
days to open the season, so above average temperatures for

(30:58):
the first two days of the season. Does that impact
how you approach those first two days of the first
handful of days, and if so, how it does it?

Speaker 3 (31:10):
It does not affect it very much. It does a
little bit mentally for me because I grew up in
northern Pennsylvania, deer season is supposed to be cold, So
when it's hot, we just feel like, yeah, it's you know,
it's hot for us. You know, deer aren't moving either.
There are literally millions of data points with radio color
deer that show that temperature a little bit above average

(31:33):
is not impacting them at all. They are still moving
just like they would if it was colder. The biggest
difference in the temperature stuff is what we feel, you know,
as as hunters. Perfect example, when I was in graduate
school at the University of New Hampshire, their bot season
always started September fifteenth. I vividly remember September fifteenth, sitting

(31:53):
in a tree stand in central New Hampshire ninety some degrees,
sweating profusely and you know, bugs all over me, not
having any fun at all, to thinking it's opening day
like I am going, and then they're thinking there's no
way deer moving. So I wasn't as intent on the

(32:14):
stand as I should have been. My mind wasn't in
it the way it should have been because it didn't
feel cold to me. I don't kill a deer, you know,
I blame it on the heat. Well, you know, then
you fast forward even look like those deer were moving.
They might have moved slightly later in the day, but
they are still They're not waiting until after dark. You know,
they are getting up all day long, you know, multiple

(32:36):
times a day, to urinate, to defecate, to get a snacked.
They're up and move it. So the warm part of
that market will play on my psyche because I like
it to the hot when it's colder, but it's not
impacting deer. And this actually I've learned this when I
worked for the State of Florida. You know, it never
got cold there, Like the whole deer season was warm.
So you know, deer are still moving. They have to

(32:57):
get up and move. So I do believe that there
are there are there are certain days, and you know
this and serious hunters us, there are certain days. It
just feels different in the woods. It's electricity in the air,
whether in the GPS. Studies suggest that it's not just temperature,
it's not just barometric pressure. But I think there's some

(33:21):
combination of things that we just haven't been able to
adequately measure yet, because there are certain days that just
feel different, but overall they do will show man. Even
when it's warmer, deer are still move. So I tell people, like,
don't stay home just because it's warm. I you know,
I have to sometimes remind myself of that. I personally
don't enjoy it as much because I grew up hunting

(33:42):
when it was cold. But I at least now I
will not stay home because it's warm, because I know
those deer are going to move. I just have to
make sure that I am mentally strong enough to keep
myself focused even though there's not a little chill in there.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
So let me let me let me add a little
bit more detail here, because your perspective on this is
really interesting to me, because, as you know, everybody has
very strong feelings about temperature impacts on deer, but the
science continues to come back showing negligible correlation. But I
know you as a hunter, as you just alluded to, like,

(34:17):
there is something that you and I know and Matt
and other people who are very dialed on the science
still are like, well, there are certain days, so so
imagine this. Imagine you have three days to hunt. You
have the first three days of the season to hunt there, right,
and as I just described, your first two days are hot.
Third day temperatures drop twenty degrees Okay, and you have

(34:43):
You've got two places you could hunt. One of them
is like the absolute best place to kill this deer.
You think it's like close to it's right in between
his bedding and feeding areas, and there's a super hot
food source. It's like that quintessential early season it's spot
to kill a boobut, but it's high impact, so you know,
like if you go in there and hunt it and

(35:04):
it doesn't work out, it's gonna be really hard to
get out of there without him knowing it. The second
place you could hunt is like maybe it could work,
Like there's a chance maybe he happens to come out
this way. But it's like a very safe place to hunt.
So you could hunt this and it's very easy to
get out after the evening hunt. He's not gonna smell you,
he's not gonna see or hear you. It's safe, but

(35:26):
just lower odds of reward. So those are your two
possible locations you could hunt. You have three days to
do it. Two days are hot, one day is much colder.
How do you split your decision? How do you split
your pressure? Given that I am going to I am
going to hot, Well, let me let me storry. Let

(35:48):
me throw on one more thing just for the audience.
I want you to or I want the audience to
remember something you mentioned a few minutes ago, which is
that that first day or that first two two days
can oftentimes be your very best chance to kill a
deer before they change their behavior. So that mine sorry,
go ahead, kid, So.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
With that, I am going regardless of the temperature. So
the temperature is not going to be a factor here.
If the wind is right, I say, it's the same
road I am hunting, the stand that is safer to
get in and out. And the reason that I say
that is the worst thing that we can do as
hunters is spook deer from where we're trying to hunt them.

(36:31):
And as soon as we spook them from there, they
remember that other deer, you know, they share information that
stand is never as good again. And I have we
have seen this on our Pennsylvania farm. We have stands
here that are put in very good places, partly because

(36:52):
we have awesome entry and exit routes where we don't
spook deer going there or coming from there. So what
that means is I will pick that spot to say
spout to get in and out because deer travel so much,
and deer select many different areas to bed and so
you can do everything right. The wind is perfect, I'm

(37:14):
in my stand. You can do everything right. But if
that deer doesn't happen to be in that area, you
don't have a chance to see it. However, if you're
at that high risk spot, there might be a dough
to five or other small box or whatever that are,
and if you spook them from that stand, you really

(37:35):
reduced your chances to kill that buck you're trying to
from that. What we have done in our place over
the last several years, and it has really worked out well,
is pick stands that are in good spots that we
aren't spooking dear from, or at least spooking very very
few dear from. Because that way mark rather than making
those stands good once or twice a year, we can

(37:56):
go back to them literally five to ten times a year.
And what that does is we only hunt when the
conditions are right. But if I can hunt a stand,
say eight times, the odds are much greater in my favor.
With that buck that I'm trying to kill is in
that area that night, not two hundred yards away on
the neighbors or a quarter mile away here. So part

(38:17):
of it is the odds. You know, you can have
the best stand in the world, but you're not guaranteed
that that deer is going to be right there. But
if you can go back to that again and again
and again every time you can, you have increased the
odds that now through his travel, he is not only
on the property of access to hunt, but on that
portion of the property. We have permanent stands on our

(38:40):
farm that we have killed multi that have been there
literally a decade, and we have killed multiple four plus
year old bucks out of four to eight year old bucks.
Same stand not moved all tower blind there that we
can get in year after year after year because we

(39:01):
spook so few deer get it in or out. We
also have stands used to have stands like the first
place at the high risk in the past. That man
it is literally in the best spot, and we have
killed some deer out of them, but we have spooked
way more deer, not the ones who are trying to kill,
then the ones that we have killed out. And as

(39:21):
soon as you do that, then quality of that stand
really drops. So back to your question, I will pick
the spot. I don't care about the temperature. I'm going
to prefer it to be colder. But I am going
to take the stand that I can get in and
out without spooking things, because on a three day hunt,
I might be able to hunt that three times, you know,
in just up my odds each time of being able

(39:43):
to have the deer that I'm looking for not only
in the neighborhood, but right there where I have a
chance to be able to shoot him from that stand.
So I'm a huge fan mark of the entry in
the exit, and I will even give up views of
food plots or oak plots or whatever. I used to
like to be right on the edge where I could
see it all and be able to shoot. I have

(40:04):
changed my mindset tremendous event I am back off those now,
even though I do the majority of bow hunting, I
am back off those will give up shots in certain
places of views to be able to get there and
out without being without spooking deer without seeing them. So anyway,
that has worked out so much better for us over
the past five to ten years that I would never

(40:28):
go back to the other one with the exception of
it's the last day of season and I know I
won't be back in the higher risk stand. It's just
way better in a much better spot. If I know
that I will not be able to hunt this deer
again for a long time, that is the only time
I would do that. And on our farm, that is
the only time that I will sit a stand if

(40:48):
the wind is questionable at all all year, we are disciplined.
We won't do it last night a season is the
only time I would sit if I think the chances
are in my favor that a certain years comment if
the wind isn't exactly right, Okay, I should say, if
the wind isn't acceptable to.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
Be there, Yeah, all right. I've got one more scenario
that's that's kind of related to this, this this earlier
discussion around whether or you know movement related factors. Maybe
not my last question, but my last for this moment.
Another one of these hunter isms that everyone likes to

(41:29):
point to would be the October lull, right everybody, Not everybody,
but many folks have talked about the impact of mid October.
So let's say it's October sixteenth, and you're hunting your
home farm in Pennsylvania and you have a target buck
that you've been following around. There's there's the one big

(41:50):
seven year old on your guys's place that you've been
watching for years, and this is the year you think
you can take them. And mid October major coal and
pushing through. Your buck is still that large. He has
been showing up on camera after dark the entire season.
You've had no daylight settings while hunting, yet you've had

(42:11):
no daylight photos of him yet during the season. There
is a thirty degree temperature drop coming up on October sixteenth.
What does this do if in any way change your
hunting strategy for him? If on October sixteenth, big cold
front pushes through, but he's been dark to this point, I.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
Was seeing the cold front is going to make me
very happy because, as I said, I like it to
be cold to hunt. The data with regard to do
your move into cold fronts, as we said, doesn't hold up.
I mean, the GPS data will show when that cold
front comes through that had no impact on his movements

(42:52):
leading up to it or his movements after. However, when
you get that big of a change, I personally feel
there is some in there. Whether it's thirty degrees colder
or thirty degrees warmer, big wide swings tend to for
whatever reason, uh, you know, get deer moving a little bit.
So I'm gonna love the cold front because mentally I
like to hunt cold. If it's not getting cold, I'm

(43:15):
still going to be there. And I will say this,
there's so much data now with that October lull all
over the White Tails range north, south, east, and west
that show across October or if you're in the southeast,
you know, we think of October to north as you know,
it's that pre rut leading up to the rough that
same time period like in Louisiana, which tends to be

(43:36):
December or January or other say, every single GPS cost
star shows deer move more all the way through that
October supposed you know lull thing, but you know what March,
so I know they are moving more every single day
through there. I also know as a hunter there are

(43:56):
times I really struggle to find there in October, and
I all so would swear they can't be moving, you know,
like I just can't. So I know what the data
says that keeps me going as a hunter to know that, hey,
I know they're moving, I just have to do a
better job figuring out here. And even on our home farm, man,
there's times in October that we struggle to find deer.

(44:16):
You know, our cameras show us now they're still moving
in that so I know that they are. But I
hear like I sympathize with hunters who can struggle, particularly
in mid October when deer are hard to find. My
professional opinion is what's happened is you know by now
do you know they're being hunted? And they do such

(44:37):
a good job reacting to human presence, whether you see
them or not, just knowing that you were there. But that,
more than anything else, is what's going on. They're just
reacting to now more there are more hunters in the woods,
there's more ATVs in the woods, there's people around, so
you know they're just on high alert. So my part
of that is, Man, that buck I've seen that lets

(44:58):
me know it Okay, you're like, I'm still in the game.
This is good. I'm still going to try. He's got
I know that we're not to the rut yet, so
you know, he still is going to want to be
eating as much as possible. I would still think my
best chance to kill him is as he is headed
to a food source. I used to hunt food sources

(45:18):
a lot more than I do today, and the reason
for that is I used to set up almost exclusively
on food, whether that be a food plot or in
an oak flat where there's a bunch of acorns or
near an apple orchs or whatever it was. And I
still do that occasionally today, but I am much more
so likely to be positioned between where I think or

(45:40):
know they're bedding and where they're going and get them
in between the two. And I'm not being cliche with us.
The reason I say this is one there I am
more likely to see them during shooting hours. You know,
they often are going to be at that food plot,
but oftentimes it's not till after dark. That's a big thing.
But what I found marked to be even more sucessful

(46:00):
for me is as they as I try to intercept
them on the way wherever I am in between those
two areas, there's almost never a deer near me at dark.
You know they are over at the food plot or
they are over else. So what that allows me to
do is get out of my stand without spooking anybody
and get out of the woods, which means then I

(46:22):
can come back and be able to hunt that spot.
And I'm convinced this is why we are able to
hunt those stands that I mentioned effectively year after year,
because there are areas where, in many cases you know
deer move through, you know, lots of shooting light, which
is great. They give you a good look and they're gone,
so you can get out of a stand at night
and never spook anything. I think that, more than anything else,

(46:43):
is what has really changed the game for us, particularly
with regard to to killing mature bucks. And we've been
very lucky and shot a bunch of them on our
farm over the last decade, and that, as much as anything,
is what has made that happen. We often don't see
as many deer because we don't see that huge group
flood the field or whatever at dark, but we are

(47:05):
more effective at killing the ones are trying to kill
because we are better at I guess being a little
stealthy in and out.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah, And like you said earlier, there's a lot a
lot in regards to discipline here with some of these decisions.
So here's here's one that I'm curious on your take on.

(47:36):
Let's imagine you're out hunting on October twenty fourth, and
let's say you're still at least you can tell me
if this is wrong. But on October twenty fourth, I'm
still considering food sources and bedding and how they're moving
back and forth between the two. But when you're on
stand that evening, you see a dough getting chased by

(47:57):
a group of bucks, like four different come piling through,
just like chasing, like hardcore chasing. There's you know, a
year and a half old, a year and a half old,
a three year old, and then a mature buck is
in the tail. There's four different bucks, all hot on
the still they go just busting past you. It's October
twenty fourth. You had been planning to continue to hunt

(48:20):
kind of a bed to food type pattern for the
rest of your weekend hunt. Now you see that. Does
that change anything for your next couple hunts?

Speaker 3 (48:28):
But it probably not. And the reason I say that
is if we're in Virginia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, or somewhere in
the north where you know the rut is gonna peak
in early to mid November, I often think of Halloween
is flipping the switch from you know, the rut standpoint,
so still late October like that, Probably what has happened
is that dough is in heat. And if you look

(48:51):
at the rut maps, you know it's a very steep
bell curve where most deer are bred of a short time.
But there's still a lot of deer. You know, they
get bread in October, even some back into September. So
it's probably a dough that just came in heat early
obviously has attracted the attention of those bucks. And as
you're starting that, in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, late

(49:12):
on Earth October twenty fourth, I see this. I'm thinking
some young bucks are just chasing her around, you know,
this kind of bird dogging her and harrassing her. So
you said, oh no, no, there's actually a three year
old and if I okay, they're not messing with her
because she's not in heat or almost in here. So
what I would do in that situation is I would
look at that as kind of an outlier, and I

(49:33):
absolutely would be calling to those bucks. I like to
call a bunch anyway. I'm very, very active in that.
I think it's a lot of fun. I grew up
with a turkey call in my mouth, so I love
the calling anyway, and I call way more today while
I'm deer hunting than I have in the past. You know,
I'm not nearly as nervous about spooking deer. Deer are

(49:54):
communicating all the time, you know, verbally, so I am
absolutely trying to call all that deer into me to
you know, to make something hap her, put myself in play.
I'm not entirely changing my my strategy yet because it's
still about a week early for when most of that
is coming. But I would take advantage of that as
an outlier of hey, this is my good fortune. I

(50:17):
see this. And actually an example was last fall my
daughter and I were in North Dakota. She had a
deer tag. I did not, but we saw a buck
in there. We could see it long ways away. We
watched the buck chasing does five hundred plus yards away
in and out of this brush, and uh so I

(50:37):
started calling to him, and my daughter looked at me, like,
come on, dad. I tought her it was eighteen at
the time. She's hunting a lot like she She's like,
do you really think, I said, do you want to
just sit here and do nothing? Like the chances that
we're gonna call him to us? Yeah, he's got four
or five dos there, but look, we're gonna I'm we're
gonna play the game. So we call he mess with them,

(50:59):
and they weren't and he they were probably close, but
mess a little bit, and all of a sudden, he's
four hundred yards away, still kind of there. I continued
to call, and I was calling in such that you know,
I actually was challenging him a little bit, just letting
him know, like a girl with a very sharp end
on it, like man, just let him know, Hey, I
see you, and uh. He would look at us and

(51:21):
kind of be through bush. About an hour later, he's
three hundred yards away, and h make a long story short,
another hour later, he's one hundred and twenty yards standing
in front of us, ticked off at whereas and my
daughter killed him right four year old buck.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
And so as we leave, she says, so like like Dad,
she said, like, I am super happy. That was awesome,
And I know that deer wasn't here by chance, like
I know it was because we and she was using
we I know it's because we called him in and
then she smiled. I know, but I said, you know,
you're absolutely right, you know, like if we if we

(51:59):
are timid and nothing, I mean, I guess it's possible
mark that deer comes with. But I'm gonna say from
a Honting end in your union experience, there is maybe
a one percent chance that deer ends up where he did.
He came a long way, and he came there because
of you know, the calling that we did, so example
you gave. I absolutely am calling to those deer, you know,

(52:21):
to try to put myself in a position. How are
they gonna come? You know, like who knows, maybe maybe not,
but you know, in the process of all that may lee.
You know that dough may end up coming back by
or whatever. So I'm gonna try anyway, But I am
not shifting my strategy based on you know, one outlier,
you know, a little bit early before the run.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
In that scenario October twenty fourth, Buck's chasing a doll
what's the call that you would try to employ.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
I would be grunting at that bucket, particularly lead buck.
So if I thought I would be doing anywhere from
a challenge grunt at him to let him know all
the way up to a snort wize and so you know,
I'm not being real timid with just little tending grunts,
you know, or just social grunts or whatever. So I
would have grown. And so often when I'm hunting now

(53:10):
I'm I've grunt. Some people won't grunt when they're not
seeing deer. I am grinning all the time. In the fall,
I have called a lot of deer and I did
not know here there you know that came out to
check what was going on. So in those cases, you know,
I'm often just going like, ah, well, if I see
a buck that I want to call to, I will
do that, but at the end, make it very sharp.

(53:31):
That's more of the challenging like a man to let
him know I'm talking to you. I'm not just genuinely
communicating like I am talking to you, and I've done that.
Whether I see a buck or no, I absolutely will
do it. You know, if it's a buck that I
want to get closer to me, so that and up
to a snort wheeze. It's a bit early for a

(53:54):
snort weeze, I went, and I love the snort wheeze.
As we get into November, probably I'm not snoring weason,
you know, the twenty fourth of October. But I definitely
would be challenged running to that deer. But if it,
you know, I wouldn't be opposed. I guess to storm
reason as well. You know you're not going to scare
it away, so I mean you're not. It's not like
I do that. It's like, oh, everything's ruined. So anyway,

(54:17):
I think more people should be more aggressive from the calling.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
That does your calling your comfort with aggressive calling? Does
that extend to rattling as well? Or do you have
a different take on that now?

Speaker 3 (54:26):
You know I'd love to rattle, and I rattle very
little anymore. I used to rattle a lot more than
I do now. And I've called some really nice bucks
in and had fun with that, I found though at
least I do most of my honting in Pennsylvania, but
I've rattled in North Dakota, Kentucky, Illinois, all over the place.

(54:48):
I don't call as many deer in that way, and
I end up sometimes I think, making more noise on
my darn rattling antlers when I'm putting them down on
a stand or carrying or carrying out or whatever. So
you know, I used to carry a lot more stuff
to the stand than I do now. I try to
go minimal just to not have all of that, and

(55:08):
rattling antlers are one of the things that I've kind
of to let go of.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Now.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
If I'm going to South Texas, I'm I'm taking rattling
And absolutely I never go deer hunting without a grunt tube.
I often grunt with my mouth any but I always
have a grunt tube. There was a long time and
I carried you know, antler's off fall. I don't do
that anymore, but more so just from because I don't
want to carry them, so I don't. I have friends

(55:33):
that had that rattle in a lot of deer over
here and have fun with it. I think it's a
lot of fun, but it's also a lot of movement,
you know, all of this, and so I probably well,
I shouldn't say I know that I have spooked, and
I've seen deer that I have spooked, either in the
course of the rattling or done is setting the antlers
down on a tree stand or whatever. So I'm so
careful about movement, and there's very little movement associated with grunting,

(55:56):
a lot more so with rattling, So I'm not nearly
as much rattler as I used to be.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
Okay, we're head and south. Let's say you are gonna
go hunt in Georgia with your buddy Lindsay Thomas Jr.
And I don't know what his family property looks like there,
So let's just say that you guys are on a
property that has a big central core of cover and

(56:22):
that is like all of the cover. There's a big
chunk of this bedding in the middle, and then it's
surrounded on all Let's say it's a square, and on
all four sides there's a different food source. Okay, to
your north is a chunk of hardwoods with some oaks
in there. To your south are some green fields, like

(56:42):
some food plots. They plant some clover or maybe some
cereal grains. It's like a mixture of that kind of stuff.
To your east is a neighboring property owner with corn planted.
And to your west you have some kind of native
region generation old field kind of stuff going on. Okay,

(57:04):
those are the four different food sources surrounding your square
of cover. And I can repeat that for you if
you want at some point. But on this particular evening
hunt you're going on, Lindsey tells you, Hey, this place
is great. There's a lot of great deer. The challenge
is you just never know what they're going to come
out to feed on. They've got these four options, four
different directions. It's very tricky to pick where to hunt

(57:26):
on any given night. There seems to be no rhyme
or reason, he says. And on this particular night, you
have a light and variable wind, so there's not going
to be a really strong stiff breeze to be considering.
So it's late October, you're hunting this place in Georgia
with a light and variable wind. You're trying to choose
where to sit for your evening hunt. And I'll repeat

(57:49):
your food sources. To your north, you have your hardwoods
with oaks. To your south, you have your green food plots.
To your east, you have the cornfield. Into your west,
you have the old field region kind of thing going on.

(58:10):
Where would you hunt why how would you come to
that decision?

Speaker 3 (58:13):
Okay? And in what month is it?

Speaker 2 (58:15):
This is the end of October.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
End of October, okay. The first thing I would do
is I would be assessing wind. Can do like I
would pick based on where the wind is. You've already
said wind is not a factor. Can have any of those,
so you know that I can pick one spot or
I have a stamp for every wind with those the
next thing I would do, And first of all, I

(58:37):
like the idea of the cover being central hunting from
the outside, like hunting deer coming out of that into food.
That is a really, really good setup. I like that
a lot. What I would do I think that there
are if oaks are falling with acorns hitting the ground,
there are very few things that attract dear more than acorns,

(58:58):
particularly white oak acorns. If I can hunt white oak acorns,
corn green, whatever it is, or really successful vegetation, odds
are and there's lots of deer food studies to show this.
Acorns are likely your best bet. You know they are
going to be just super attractive. Deer love them, and

(59:19):
that time of the year you are at the end
of when they can really put on much fat to
get ready for winter, so they are going to be
doing everything possible to add as much fat as they
possibly can, So acorns will be an awesome, awesome selection. However,
I would pick where I'm going to be as much
as anything based on what does the cover around that

(59:43):
food source look like. And by that what I mean
is for a long time we had food plots, or
we had open oak stands where you know, we're hunting
with a corns or whatever, where you had that and
then you had woods. Today, every single food plot I
have and almost every single stand I have in the woods,

(01:00:07):
those food sources have some type of cover immediately adjacent
to them. So for example, the food plot it was
a square. Rather than plant that whole thing, I plant
a smaller portion of it and have early successional vegetation
all the way around where awesome oak stands. Rather than
being all open through the woods. We have done work

(01:00:29):
in the woods so that we have young forests so
that it's thick cover right adjacent to where there. And
the reason for this mark is as you're where deer
are going to go find the food, you know, but
they might eat after dark. So if I can only
have one food or cover. I'm taking cover every single
time because that still keeps me in the ball game.

(01:00:50):
And when I mentioned this, about every single one of
our stands has early successional vegetation around it because that
facilitates daytime movement of deer into that food source. You know,
they might be in the food plot after dark, but
they're going to be you know, in the area right
near it before dark. If they feel secure in three

(01:01:10):
to five feet of early successful vegetation makes them feel
very secure. We are hunting from an elevated position, we
can see the deer very clearly, so it puts us
at a tremendous advantage. Having that cover right around food
is an absolute game changer, absolutely, and we have shot
some of the best bumps on us over the last

(01:01:31):
few years with that exact scenario. Case in point, my son,
this is three hunting seasons ago, now overlooking a food
plot that had been there for a long time. That
year I had taken the outside acre of it and
made it into early successful vegetation. Pennsylvania has more dinners
per square mile in every other state fourteen and a
half deer, so there are people everywhere we are into

(01:01:55):
It's the end of November. We've hunted deer for six
or seven weeks with the bow, now a week with
a rifle. Deer know they're being hunted. I'm in the
stand when my young son we watch a buck walk
into this food plot. What he's done is he's walking
by the early successful vegetation because he knows one step.
I'm completely hit. It's a winter ride plot. He walks

(01:02:16):
down an hour before dark. You know mature bucks aren't
walking around an hour before dark in Pennsylvania. He walks
down this row of early successional vegetation, stops at one
hundred and thirty yards away. My son pulls a trigger,
drops him in his tracks. We are going crazy celebrating
because we've had our camp since nineteen seventy seven. This

(01:02:38):
was the biggest buck we'd ever killed. This was a
six and a half year old, one hundred and fifty
inch dear that is standing at the edge of a
food plot an hour before dark. He's not standing there
if that early successional vegetation isn't there. That is the
game jigger. That is why every food plot we have
now has that around it. And then when we are

(01:02:59):
standing in the woods, we work in the woods to
have thicket. They don't have to be huge areas, but
it just has to be enough cover that deer feels
secure that one step and I'm hitting. So I say
that to say, everything else being equal, I'm going to
hunt at oat flat. I want to be with the
eight corns. But if it's all wide open and the
corn and or the green patch has early successful vegetation

(01:03:22):
aren't cover around it, I likely I'm picking one of
those because deer are more likely to show themselves during shooting. Ours.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
All right, I love this topic that you brought up
about the hunting pressure impacts there and how you've dealt
with that. From like a habitat management perspective, I've got
to question a scenario for you that is related. Let's
say you're on your home farm or yeah, let's say
it's your home farm and you get new neighbors this year.

(01:03:50):
And I don't know what your neighboring landowners situation is,
but let's say that this new neighbor owns property on
two sides of your farm and they come in the
season open, and all of a sudden, you see, like WHOA,
these guys are guns blazing. There's people there every weekend,
sometimes weekdays, there's a whole pile of people. Like a
lot of hunters, you frequently see them. You hear them

(01:04:13):
buzzing around on their ATVs all the time. They're setting
up on your property lines. You're seeing them often right
there on the edge of your property. As the season advances.
This continues from a hunting perspective of what you can
do and impact right now during this season while this
is happening. How does that change things, if at all,
for you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
The first thing I'm going to do is if somebody
buys land near me, I'm going to go meet them
and introduce myself and just let them know what we do.
And actually, this is a very real serio for us
because where I am in northern Pennsylvania, it's an economically
depressed area. It's an awesome place to raise kids and hunt.
Money wise, you know, there's not so every landowner except

(01:04:58):
for one who borders our farm, lives at least three
hours away. They live in southern pa or Maryland or
New Jersey and then drive up here monetarily. You know,
they can afford to land here more than the locals can.
It's a great place to be. So having said that
you know, it's not like I grew up with it.
Because I now live where I grew up, It's not
like I grew up with our neighbors. So what I

(01:05:20):
do is is I share information with all of our neighbors.
Every year, I share trail camber pictures, I share an
annual camp report to let them know what we're doing.
And I remember in the early years when I started this,
the guys that are camp said, I can't believe you're
sharing dear camp, And I said, look, I want them
to know. This is what we're doing. We're gonna be
we want to be good neighbors. I'm not asking you

(01:05:41):
to do what we do. If you don't want to
ever pass the buck, that's totally fine. But I want
you to know where going to so that if you
choose to, then you can feel secure that we're going
to as well. And that has worked out very well
for us. So first thing, I'm gonna let them know, Hey,
I'm Kip Adams. You know awesome hunting in the area. Congratulations,
And by this, you know we work with a lot

(01:06:02):
of the neighbors here. Share information. You know you have
bought into a good place to deer on. This is
kind of what the neighborhood does. This is what we do.
Love to hear what you want to do, you know,
love to have you be a good, productive part of us.
And if they say they choose they don't want to
be at all, or they just are. And there are

(01:06:22):
certainly something like that, and I work with people who
have neighbors like that. I work really hard to make
sure we have good cover on us so that deer
have places to feel secure. I would absolutely make sure
that in these areas that deer you know, between us
and them, had really good cover that they could get into,
whether they're on you know, our farm and moving into that,

(01:06:43):
you know, because they're not our deer. It's the neighborhoods dereal.
They belong to everybody. But you know, if these people
are and the neighbors are shooting everything or run over,
I want to provide a place for deer that are,
you know, near us to be able to feel safe
and secure as well. So I'm going to make sure
there's really good cover that they can get in, and
then I'm gonna be uber careful to not apply pressure

(01:07:04):
to those sides of the property that you know, to
make dear want to leave and go the other way,
and you know how dear are, though, they will react
very quickly realize if there's less pressure over here, I'm
going to spend more time this way. So we'll just
we'll just be super careful about that. But I absolutely
I am going to reach out and try to meet the
neighbors and you know, be a be a good good

(01:07:26):
friend to them, so at least give them the opportunity
to to be good friends with us too.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
Yep, that makes a lot of sense, all right, Kip.
In the interesting time, I want to move us to
the final section of this gauntlet, which is like a
rapid fire section. I've got several just very quick questions
that I ask everybody and ask for them to just
respond with like a yes or no or like the
one word answer. I'll give you your options. I know what

(01:07:51):
you're gonna answer for a couple of these, but I
gotta ask you anyway, and then we'll we'll wrap up
with the one real doozy for you, Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
Right, all right?

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
So does the moon matter to deer movement in any
way at all? That is worthwhile for hunters to pay
attention to yes or.

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
No no, not that it's been in there. Again, there
are millions of data points to show this, and that
goes for both moon phase and moon direction, whether it's
overhead or underfoot. We literally are talking to maybe a
minute or two minutes different, So no appreciable difference with

(01:08:27):
regard to to when deer moment.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
Would you take a fifty yard shot at a white
tail with your bow? Yes? Or no?

Speaker 3 (01:08:35):
I would not. I practice that far. I practice farther
than that. Most of the hunting that I do involves
being near or in woods, so total wide open area.
If I was hunting most of that, like maybe mostly
out west, that might be different. For the vast majority
of the deer hunt that I do, I personally am

(01:08:55):
not shooting fifty yards.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
Yeah, if you only have one of these for the
rest of your deer hunting days, which would it be
grunt tube or rattling antlers, grunt tube expandable or fixed
blade broadheads.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
I'm an expandable guy. And then the data shows that
that that's a little better. And this comes from a
hardcore fixed blade guy for a long long time, But
for white tails, I'm an expandable guy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
Okay, should you stop a moving buck with some kind
of sound before shooting with your bow. Yes or no?

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
Yes, and that that is a gay difference for me.
I did not used to be that I am with
a rifle, no, with a bow. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
Okay. Let's imagine that I ascend to a place of
power in which I have control over your hunting privileges
and I am going to take away your hunting license
across all fifty states unless you can kill a mature
buck this year. You have to kill a mature buck

(01:09:59):
that if you don't, no more hunt in the rest
of your days. Here's the real kicker, though. You only
get one day to hunt this season, and you have
one location to do it from, like one specific stand site,
one ambush location. I would like you to pick the
date on the calendar that you would like to choose
for this very important hunt, and then describe for me

(01:10:21):
the exact spot. This can be an actual spot that
you know of, or this can you can paint a hypothetical.
You can dream up your perfect situation if you'd like.
But what's the best possible date for you to kill
this mature buck and the best possible place to do
it on that day?

Speaker 3 (01:10:37):
My favorite day to hunt therey of the year is
November sixth, and so it's that early November time. Personally,
the sixth that's just been very good to me. So
it's going to be November sixth if I'm in Pensilvan,
say I'm near home, it's where we have, you know,
a mix of woods and ag land. I am going
to be in the woods, preferably on a saddle with
good cover nearby, just a route that really is conducive

(01:11:03):
to deer move and you'll covering a lot of the ground.
You'll be able to navigate between ridges. So I'm a
huge fan of saddles, but I absolutely want some some
cover and then often is in the case of young forest,
you know, even those environments nearby. But November sixth, without
a doubt, one day of the year, that's the day
I'm hunting.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
All right, Well, I have a strong sense of confidence
that you would get the job done, Kip. I believe
I think you'll be able to keep on hunting, Kip.
Before I let you go, what should folks know if
there's is there anything new with the with the Deer
Social Association these days, anything that should be checking out,
anything you want to make sure we're aware before you

(01:11:44):
hit the road.

Speaker 3 (01:11:45):
I think one thing that's cool that we have now
that it's going to be brand new is, you know,
we talk to people about the need to shoot additional
analysts deer. Part of the reason they don't, it's not
because they're not a tag or they don't see it,
it's because they don't even outlet far. So we have
spent a ton of time this past year H one
working with Venison Processors to develop a national Venison donation

(01:12:07):
processor map. You can go to Deer Association dot com
and see that, and we continue to add Venison processors
all the time, so it's a place that you can
have an L two take a deer to be donated,
and we're working with statewide donations to increase the amount
of revenue to them so that it doesn't cost you
or me or any un or anything. You can literally

(01:12:29):
take the deer, not pay a penny. You've done your
service as a deer steward. You know, you're you're helping
balance deer nerves and then that food ends up in
needy family's hands. So I am super excited about that. So, yeah,
they can go check out that Venison processor map. Has
all the information you know on state donation programs, et cetera.
I think it's a great resource for hunters and it's

(01:12:50):
helping get food into needy family's hands and allowing hunters
to be the champions of society. So that's a pretty
good image for hunters to be. I like that a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
Yeah, that's that's a huge win across the board. Well, Kip,
thank you as always thoroughly enjoyed our chat. I always
learned something. I always come away with these with new
ideas and stuff to take to the woods with me,
so I appreciate that, Kip, And best luck this season.

Speaker 3 (01:13:16):
All right. Thank you always good to talk with you,
and thanks for what you do, and absolutely good luck
to you as well. And I'll be following you and
I'll be sending you a congrats when I see some hero.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Pics, so bitter back at you. Thanks geting right, We'll
see you all right, And that's a wrap. Thank you
for tuning in. As I reminded you guys at the
end of the introduction, please go to dear Association dot
com to learn more about what the National Deer Association
is doing. Kip is leading the charge on a lot

(01:13:47):
of really great and important conservation work for white tail deer,
white tail deer habitat, and the issues and causes that
matter to folks like you and me deer hunters. So
become a member. Support dear association. Keep on saying the
Deer Association. It's the National Deer Association, but their website
is Deer Association dot com. So, without all said, and

(01:14:09):
without any further ado, thanks for being here. I appreciate
you being a part of this community. I appreciate you
tuning in every single week, and until next time, best
of luck in the woods and stay wired to hunt.