June 16, 2025 • 28 mins
In this episode of We Need to Talk, Nyla Symone sits down with Nigerian artist CKay for an honest and insightful conversation about love, growth, and the global rise of Afrobeat. CKay reflects on his creative process, the importance of emotional well-being, and the impact DJs have in pushing the culture forward. He speaks to the personal and professional evolution that shaped his latest project, CKay The Second (which is a more mature and coherent body of work, influenced by his global experiences and emotional growth since the release of CKay The First). From navigating the music industry to defining success on his own terms, CKay shares how he's building something lasting—one intentional step at a time. Tune in and comment in the socials below.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to We need to Talk with production of the
Black Effect Podcast Network, and you're Monday.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm trying to get down with you. I need the view.
I'm trying to get down with you. We got to
dig down with you.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, get damn with what's one on? Guys, and welcome
to another episode we need to talk. I am your
host stylist Moan. I'm here with a very special guest. Today.
We got t K in the building. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm great?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
You I am.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
How's it going. I've seen you in l a v
Et weekend?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Yeah, I mean it's cool. I just got into New
York last night. You know, still a bit tired, but uh,
you know, we're out here. We pin okay.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, I'm gonna say you're two for two with the outfits.
Last time I seen you, the drip was good. Seeing
you today the drip is also good. I really like
this chain.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Thanks you too.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Why the purple.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
You mean the purple chain or the purple It.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Was kind of double on tundra, but as a question,
like yeah, for both.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I mean I like purple. I think it's a great color.
You know, this is like purple sapphires.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
This is a brand. I think it's cool. I like
that stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Purple is my favorite color.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Oh yeah, nice wearing sink?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Mmm, something like that? Maybe today? Yeah, not on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I mean sink sink is It comes in different ways.
We're in sink on Sunday in a different way.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Okay, yeah, okay, fair enough. And then why did you
choose to dye your hair gray?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Because deep down I'm an old man? Oh god, you know,
like I feel. I feel like I feel like I'm
seventy five years deep down, I've lived many lives. Really, Yeah,
so my gray hair is a way to remind myself
that I've lived many lives.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
The gray hair is not from the stress of the
women that you be playing with.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
No, No, I don't play.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
With women, like, oh please, I listen to the music.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I mean, you know, I don't call it playing with women.
It's just like, you know, things happen in love and
in life. You know, sometimes these things make for interesting stories.
But yeah, I'll never play with anyone's heart or feelings.
I'm not that kind of guy. Do you do you
(02:37):
like love? Are you a fan of love? You or
do you think it's like it's.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Calm No, I love love me too.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
No, you see where I'm seeing.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
No.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
No, once again.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I don't think we are. I don't think we are.
I know you're putting out c K two. What makes
you want to keep going with your name and doing
a series like that?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, because it's like a couple of reasons.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
First of all, it's like I feel like each time
I release an EP or make an EPI, it's like
it's like a child.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
You know.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
It's like you know when when artists say stuff like
oh or not just as its creative, be like, oh,
this is my baby.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
It's my baby.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
So it's kind of like the music is my baby
technically right, and you know, just like similar to making babies,
you know, it takes a lot out of you, Like
you literally put yourself into the music, and the music
is literally or the baby, it's literally made of you.
(03:39):
Like it's made of like of parts of you that
come together to create a new life on its own,
something that would live on its own and has its
own identity. So for the EP SEEK, the first was
like the first child, you know, it was what it was.
It was like a very important chapter in the story,
was the beginning of everything, to be very honest, like
(04:02):
K the First was like it was the beginning. Literally
everything I can I can say happened like between twenty
nineteen and now you can all trace it to K
the First. So K the Second is basically like the
second child. You know, the second page of the story,
(04:24):
the second chapter, and you know it's the second child.
Is never just like the first child. It's it's difference.
You know, it comes with its different personality, different traits,
different characteristics. So it's kind of the same with this EP.
It's a bit different from K the First, but in
my opinion, I think it's a lot more advanced and
(04:45):
it's a lot more like coherence than K the First.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
What would you say is the biggest difference? Is it
like life experience in storytelling or more so different in
like a production aspect.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I'd say it's a bit of both, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
First things first, where I was in life when I
made SIK the First was very different from where I
am in life right now, like the stuff I've been through,
you know, I'd say when I was making SIK the First,
I was very fresh on the scene, at least the
global scene, you know, in Nigeria. I was not so
(05:22):
fresh on the scene as much. But I was still
fresh on the scene to some you know, to some extents,
and with TIK the second, it's not I'm not really
exactly fresh on the scene.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
You know. I've experienced a lot.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
I've gone on tours, I've traveled the world, I've you know,
I've done quite a lot of stuff that you know,
exposed me to experiences, to people, to you know, two
different stuff basically, and all these things build character, They
build they build you as a person as a musician,
(05:59):
and it shows up in the music basically when you
make the music. I feel like in love in romantic affairs.
I think I've matured a lot more compared to I'm clapping,
compared to where I was, you know, during c K
the first Yeah, and it's just for me looking at
(06:24):
the story, I think it's a very interesting progression of events, Like,
you know, watching my own growth has been so exciting
for me, you know, And I'm sure like the fans
every other person who.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
It's okay, I mean coming, come on, you're already disrupted
in it. Hey guys, this is Arthur. You're gonna sit
in that chair so you can switch the camera Okay,
(07:04):
it's just oneing too. That's and then those hyphones if
you wanna track audio.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, where was I again?
Speaker 1 (07:18):
You were saying that the difference is you've pictured.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, between the two epies.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, so well, I was gonna aks being that you
like travel all over the world so much, and then
you are using your real life experiences to put into
the music. What is like love life for you?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Like, well, right now I'm not in a relationship. First
things First, I was.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Oh, okay, but not anymore.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, But one thing I'd say about love is I
think love is a.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Very Love is probably like top two drugs in the world.
Like it has like very crazy effects on the human brain,
you know. I also think it makes people do crazy things,
irrational things, like it makes it controls people's lives in
(08:19):
different ways, Like I've seen people abandon their whole lives
in the name of love, you know, So it can
be It's a very potent drug.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
That is, like it's good and bad at the same
time depending on the context. You know.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
But one thing I would say I've come to realize
about love in the midst of everything is that at
the end of the day, love is a choice and
love is sacrifice. I feel like these two things kind
of sum up what love is like. Obviously, you can
be infatuated with someone, attracted to someone all that good stuff,
(08:56):
but like when they start to get annoying, when you
can't stand there them, stand them anymore, Like, will those
feelings sustain?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
It's no, it won't.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Like I feel like at that point, you have to
choose to love the person. You have to choose to
ignore all the bullshits, all the craziness, all the annoying
things they do, Like, you have to make a decision
too be like, Okay, regardless of all this stuff, I
would choose to love you. That's basically what I've come
(09:31):
to understand love to mean. And I think it's it's
not easy to love someone. It's it's not as easy
as it looks on TV or in videos. It's like
a full time job. So like you know, at the
end of the day, love is still a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Still I agree? Have you Like, because you said you're
no longer in relationship, did relationship end and a crash
out either on your behalf or the other?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
No, no crash out. It was like a very mature
you mature.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
No I'm very much lie, I'm for real, like it
was very mature and you know, civil situation. It wasn't
anything crazy. Okay, Yeah, I feel like you know, when
when to grown people in a relationship, it doesn't have
(10:32):
to get messy, you know, it can just be very respectful,
very sincere.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I'm very like you know civil.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Okay, this is true. I'll give you that, Okay on
the show, I like to play a game where you
have to fill in the blank. Okay, all right, the
older I get, the less I.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
The older I get, the less im I don't know,
do that get the less the less people ask you
how you're doing. I guess the more people just ask
you for shiit like.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Okay, hey, how are you? What's up? Yeah? I need this, this, this,
you know.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, it's like greet me. I'm a human.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah. The older you get, the more.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
That's fair. I think that just comes with success too.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Okay, you would never believe me if I told you.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
You would never believe me if I told you I
can cook?
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, would you be cooking? What is like your goal to?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I mean Nigerian stuff obviously, Like you know I can
fix your nice jel of fries. You know, jello fries,
does it hats it hats Jelo fries? Chicken you know
some chicken plan?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
You know who taught you how to cook?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I mean my mom, I grew up. I grew up.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
I had sisters too, like, so you just pick up
these things really easy. But I don't know, it's very
often though. I only cook if, like, if it's a
very special occasion, you know, or it's a very special person,
then I would like get into the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Nice. Yeah, did you cook for yourself when you left
home and moved to Legos?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Of course every time.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
For some reason, I feel like you was a hot
pocket Donald's type of guy.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Nah.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
First things first, there's no McDonald's in Nigeria, but we
have other stuff. There's other brands in Nigeria which shall
not be named. But yeah, I mean I was cooking
lots of noodles, you know, like there was a there
was a time I was eating noodles like a ridiculous
(12:57):
number of times a month, like was crazy. I feel
like at that point the noodle company needed to endorse
me or something.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Definitely, from the time you left home to you know,
for being on your own, how long did it take
for you to like pretty much make it?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
So the thing is making it in quotes, It's like
I feel there isn't so much as a definite moment
where you can see I made it. At this moment,
I feel like success is a very it's a very
ongoing process and it's like there are some seriously blood
(13:41):
lines there. So I can't really tell you that exact moment,
but I would say when I started to like make
money from my actual music, not just the production that
like I was doing, but like my own music, I
would say it took me like maybe four or five
(14:01):
years of being in legos and like you know, doing
my thing all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
You know, five years, that's not bad.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, From time to time, it's good to do.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
From time to time, it's good to to do exercise,
go to the gym, you know, don't sit down all day,
you know, get active.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
It's good for your health. It's good for everything. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Jay Z is a rapper. Okay, Okay. The craziest thing
that happened on tour had to be the time when.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
One of the crazy crazy things was when someone threw
a bra on stage. And the first one it's just
like the quickest thing I can think of. There's a
lot more crazy stuff, but I can't really say it
on camera.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Why call you because I can't?
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Who participated?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
No, No, I just prefer not to.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Okay, By the end of twenty twenty five, I hope to.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
By the end of twenty twenty five, I hope to,
you know, have released a very successful EP c K
the second. I hope to also get back on the road.
You know, I've been on a break from the road
for like six seven months now, you know, recording music,
taking care of my mental health, all that stuff. I'm
(15:29):
super excited to get back on the road. And yeah,
by the end of the year, I also want to
just celebrate a successful year and spend time with my
family and loved ones.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
How do you maintain your mental health when you are
on the road.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
It's not easy to do that. Actually, well, I like
to meditate a lot quiet time. I like to have
quiet time to just like be in my thoughts. I
talk to family members from time to time to just like,
you know, keep myself ground there. I pray a lot
(16:06):
as well, and I try to just get as much
sleep as possible and go to the gym too. I
feel like exercise really helps to like not just build
you physically, but also mentally. You know, I think exercise
is like mental exercise too.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah for sure. Yeah, that's a good routine. That's like
your morning routine. Yeah yeah, Okay, when it's all said
and done, I want my legacy.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
To be when it's all said and done, I want
my legacy to be that I innovated afrobits and that
I took the sound a step further or five steps
for that, or ten steps for that, like not just
even the sound, but music in general. Like, you know,
I want to break the norm. I want to do
(16:58):
exciting stuff that hasn't been done before. I want to
break boundaries that haven't been broken before. And I want
to basically trail blaze, you know, a whole new movements
in music.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
When you see others participating in afrobeats, I know, like
within the hip hop space, sometimes people feel like, oh,
hip hop went mainstream, it's watered down, X Y and Z.
Do you ever feel like that about afrobeats and where
it's growing too, or do you think you guys are
still doing a good job of maintaining like the essence
(17:32):
and authenticity of the genre.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, the thing is, you know, afrobeats.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Or any genre for that matter, it's like in a
constant flux, is in a constant state of evolution.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Like you know, going back to my.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Parents' time, when my parents were young and they were
listening to music afro beats, it wasn't even they weren't
calling it afrobats back then. They you know, the most
popular African genres were actually high life, not afrobeats. So
obviously America, Europe, everybody knows, oh afrobeats, afrobeas, it is
(18:17):
like a term that has been coined to just to
generalize the whole thing. It's kind of like if I
say America beats, how does that sound? You know, oh,
American music. Let's say, you know, I'm in a European
context and I'm trying to describe American music and I
call it American beats. It's a disservice to American music
(18:39):
because there's country, there's jazz, there's this, there's that. So
it's kind of like the way it is with African music.
So back in the days, there was high life, and
high life was played by live bands, wasn't really recorded.
You didn't really have people going into the studios and
producers making beats and the musicians sing on it. They
would jam and vibe out for like seven eight minutes,
(19:02):
nine minutes and record that jam session and that's the song.
They put out the song, put out the album, and
that's the album.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
You have songs.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Fifteen minutes songs are not fifteen minutes now, even amongst
the Africans, we don't make fifteen minutes songs anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
That is evolution.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Not every musician records their music with their live band
in the studio. Now there's producers that make beats. You
have live musicians that, like you know, they play guitar
on a beat, or they play violin on a beat,
or they play whatever on the beats, but it's still
a beat, is still a producer that made it.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
That's evolution. The rhythms have changed as well.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Like you know, now African music is a lot more
club friendly than it used to be. The African music
in the time of my parents was not very club friendly.
It was just you know, live and stuff. So it's evolved.
So I feel, coming back to your question, in the
modern day, if you look at other you know, people
(20:08):
who are outside the culture doing the sound or contributing
to the sound. I mean, they're going to obviously do
what they will with the sound. You cannot really get
to keep what people do with the sound, you know.
I think if people take the sound and do something
(20:29):
interesting and that thing shifts the terrain and people love it,
why not. I Mean it's kind of like I would
say with R and B and hip hop as well,
Like there was a time R and B was very
R and B, and there was a time it started
to like have bloodlines with hip hop, like you started
to have trap R and B that you know, sounded
(20:50):
like trap music, but they were singing, you know, stuff
like that. It's kind of the same thing with afrobeats too,
Like when American artists make afrobeats, you know, they're not
already saying the lambards and the stuff we say, like
the slangs, you know, because aphrobeit is more than just
the beats, is the culture is the slang, the language.
Americans don't really speak the language, but they just sing
(21:11):
on the beats, and you know, sometimes it sounds nice,
sometimes maybe not as nice. But you know, nobody is
out here like a police saying, oh, you cannot do
afrobeats because you're American. I mean, you're free to try
do your thing, like you know, but we know what
it is, like Africans, we know where the sound started from.
(21:35):
You know, nobody is erasing the history there. It's there,
the legacy is there, and I think it's just up
to us too, you know, to do something interesting with
the sound and make it relevant to our time, the
time we live in, because at the end of the day,
this is not nineteen seventy, this is twenty twenty five.
Like the music has to reflect the time. So those
(21:57):
are my two cents on that.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Would you say, so high life is like the father
of what modern day afrobeat is.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Now, I would say in a way, because you know,
Fellaculty is the founder of afrobat not without the s
aprobits so afrobeats, But then he used to be a
high live musician before he invented afrobits.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Many people don't know that.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
But like when I did like reading on him and
all that stuff, like I discovered that he had a
high life band called I think Colo Lobitos or something
like that, or egypt Atya, I'm not sure which of
them it was, but basically he had a high live
band and high life music was very popular, and I
think he went to university in the UK and when
(22:46):
he was in London he kind of reinvented himself and
came up with a new you know, fusion and called
it afrobits, basically mixing Euroba drums and jazz basically, and
he was calling out the governments. It was a very
revolutionary genre. It wasn't just for pleasure, like listening pleasure.
(23:08):
The music was for revolution. So the music we make
now is a lot more for listening pleasure than revolution,
you know, because you know, we turn up to it
in the club where you know, people drinking alcohol, dancing
and all that stuff. Back in the days, nobody was
really trying to dance to that, like it was some
serious self you know.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, so I would say I wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I don't know if I would say high Life was
was the forefather of afrobeat or anything. But I'll just
tell you fella used to make high life. So do
with this information?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Will there's some DNA to it? Actually?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Okay. I like having these conversations. I feel like I
learned so much because at least here, I like, all
we see is American culture, Like we don't know, it's
not like I feel like it's an insult to say
afrobeats now, but afrobeats isn't like being forced on us.
It's not our regular so and I know American cultures
(24:10):
dominates entertainment worldwide, but it's cool to hear. And where
are like the places that you guys typically find music
at least like growing up, Like did you guys have
like a LimeWire and stuff like that or.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Yeah, I mean we had everything you guys have basically,
but I would say at the time, like me growing up,
regardless of the limewires and the iTunes and all that
good stuff, in Nigeria, there was like a system of
(24:49):
distribution of music. It sounds weird when I when I
say it, but basically bootleg was the system at the time.
So there was a there's a place called a Laba Market,
which is like a I don't know how I described
(25:10):
this in an American context, but like a flea market
more like electronics and stuff like it's a they sell
all kinds of stuff here, right, And this is the
place where like music used to be pirated bootlegged basically,
so you'd see albums bootlegged and they would like sell
(25:32):
these on the streets. And that's how music used to
blow up back in the days, because like the CDs
would just be everywhere on the streets and the music
blows up, and obviously radio and all that stuff. So
we used to discover afrobeats from the bootleg CDs or
from DJ mixes. You know, they would do DJ mixes
and bootleg them on the streets and sell. Then there
(25:56):
was blogs for free downloads, lots of you know, there
were lots of blo I used to upload the music
for free, you know, free downloads, and I feel like
over time streaming kind of started to replace that, but
it's still there, Like a lot of people still download
stuff for free. I think that's kind of why it's
(26:18):
a bit difficult to track sales of afrobeats if you
tracked sales the way America America will track sales, like
we'll probably have so many records that are probably silver
in America but like twenty times platinum in Nigeria because
we have the population, like Nigeria has over two hundred
million people, and these people are consuming music on a
(26:41):
daily basis. It's just probably not on Spotify or Apple Music.
So an American looking at spotifile Apple Music may not
get the full accurate picture of the consumption of music
in Nigeria. So it's kind of like I could go
on and on and tell you like this, but we'll
(27:01):
probably be here for like six more hours. That's basically,
you know, just a lowdown of how afro beats used
to be before it came to this point.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
We are like, yeah, I feel like even now you
gotta follow some of the DJs to get what's actually
going on over there.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, of course, yeah, of course.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
I feel DJs are very important in terms of afrobeats
because before there was TikTok Instagram, the DJs were the
ones who carried afrobeats. You know, they still do obviously.
I'm just saying like back then, it was like basically
the DJs who were like pushing it, playing it in parties,
playing it in clubs like you know, in the days
(27:44):
of two Phase, the bands, you know, it was DJs.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Well, c K, thank you so much for joining me.
I know we got K two on the way tour
on the way. I'm super excited for both. I'll definitely
be in the building. Can you just shout out your
grammar let everybody know where to follow you if they
don't already.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
All right, you can follow me on ka Y, on
the Score, Yle on ig, Twitter, everywhere you know. But
go listen to K the second, first, and foremost. Don't
sleep on your bicycle, don't be told, don't listen to
it on Instagram. Go listen to it right now.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Until next time, guys talk soon. We need to Talk
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Talk at wntt LK on Instagram and TikTok
Welcome to We need to Talk with production of the
Black Effect Podcast Network, and you're Monday.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm trying to get down with you. I need the view.
I'm trying to get down with you. We got to
dig down with you.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, get damn with what's one on? Guys, and welcome
to another episode we need to talk. I am your
host stylist Moan. I'm here with a very special guest. Today.
We got t K in the building. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm great?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
You I am.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
How's it going. I've seen you in l a v
Et weekend?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Yeah, I mean it's cool. I just got into New
York last night. You know, still a bit tired, but uh,
you know, we're out here. We pin okay.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, I'm gonna say you're two for two with the outfits.
Last time I seen you, the drip was good. Seeing
you today the drip is also good. I really like
this chain.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Thanks you too.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Why the purple.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
You mean the purple chain or the purple It.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Was kind of double on tundra, but as a question,
like yeah, for both.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I mean I like purple. I think it's a great color.
You know, this is like purple sapphires.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
This is a brand. I think it's cool. I like
that stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Purple is my favorite color.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Oh yeah, nice wearing sink?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Mmm, something like that? Maybe today? Yeah, not on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I mean sink sink is It comes in different ways.
We're in sink on Sunday in a different way.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Okay, yeah, okay, fair enough. And then why did you
choose to dye your hair gray?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Because deep down I'm an old man? Oh god, you know,
like I feel. I feel like I feel like I'm
seventy five years deep down, I've lived many lives. Really, Yeah,
so my gray hair is a way to remind myself
that I've lived many lives.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
The gray hair is not from the stress of the
women that you be playing with.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
No, No, I don't play.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
With women, like, oh please, I listen to the music.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I mean, you know, I don't call it playing with women.
It's just like, you know, things happen in love and
in life. You know, sometimes these things make for interesting stories.
But yeah, I'll never play with anyone's heart or feelings.
I'm not that kind of guy. Do you do you
(02:37):
like love? Are you a fan of love? You or
do you think it's like it's.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Calm No, I love love me too.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
No, you see where I'm seeing.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
No.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
No, once again.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I don't think we are. I don't think we are.
I know you're putting out c K two. What makes
you want to keep going with your name and doing
a series like that?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, because it's like a couple of reasons.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
First of all, it's like I feel like each time
I release an EP or make an EPI, it's like
it's like a child.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
You know.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
It's like you know when when artists say stuff like
oh or not just as its creative, be like, oh,
this is my baby.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
It's my baby.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
So it's kind of like the music is my baby
technically right, and you know, just like similar to making babies,
you know, it takes a lot out of you, Like
you literally put yourself into the music, and the music
is literally or the baby, it's literally made of you.
(03:39):
Like it's made of like of parts of you that
come together to create a new life on its own,
something that would live on its own and has its
own identity. So for the EP SEEK, the first was
like the first child, you know, it was what it was.
It was like a very important chapter in the story,
was the beginning of everything, to be very honest, like
(04:02):
K the First was like it was the beginning. Literally
everything I can I can say happened like between twenty
nineteen and now you can all trace it to K
the First. So K the Second is basically like the
second child. You know, the second page of the story,
(04:24):
the second chapter, and you know it's the second child.
Is never just like the first child. It's it's difference.
You know, it comes with its different personality, different traits,
different characteristics. So it's kind of the same with this EP.
It's a bit different from K the First, but in
my opinion, I think it's a lot more advanced and
(04:45):
it's a lot more like coherence than K the First.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
What would you say is the biggest difference? Is it
like life experience in storytelling or more so different in
like a production aspect.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I'd say it's a bit of both, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
First things first, where I was in life when I
made SIK the First was very different from where I
am in life right now, like the stuff I've been through,
you know, I'd say when I was making SIK the First,
I was very fresh on the scene, at least the
global scene, you know, in Nigeria. I was not so
(05:22):
fresh on the scene as much. But I was still
fresh on the scene to some you know, to some extents,
and with TIK the second, it's not I'm not really
exactly fresh on the scene.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
You know. I've experienced a lot.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
I've gone on tours, I've traveled the world, I've you know,
I've done quite a lot of stuff that you know,
exposed me to experiences, to people, to you know, two
different stuff basically, and all these things build character, They
build they build you as a person as a musician,
(05:59):
and it shows up in the music basically when you
make the music. I feel like in love in romantic affairs.
I think I've matured a lot more compared to I'm clapping,
compared to where I was, you know, during c K
the first Yeah, and it's just for me looking at
(06:24):
the story, I think it's a very interesting progression of events, Like,
you know, watching my own growth has been so exciting
for me, you know, And I'm sure like the fans
every other person who.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
It's okay, I mean coming, come on, you're already disrupted
in it. Hey guys, this is Arthur. You're gonna sit
in that chair so you can switch the camera Okay,
(07:04):
it's just oneing too. That's and then those hyphones if
you wanna track audio.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, where was I again?
Speaker 1 (07:18):
You were saying that the difference is you've pictured.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, between the two epies.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, so well, I was gonna aks being that you
like travel all over the world so much, and then
you are using your real life experiences to put into
the music. What is like love life for you?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Like, well, right now I'm not in a relationship. First
things First, I was.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Oh, okay, but not anymore.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, But one thing I'd say about love is I
think love is a.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Very Love is probably like top two drugs in the world.
Like it has like very crazy effects on the human brain,
you know. I also think it makes people do crazy things,
irrational things, like it makes it controls people's lives in
(08:19):
different ways, Like I've seen people abandon their whole lives
in the name of love, you know, So it can
be It's a very potent drug.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
That is, like it's good and bad at the same
time depending on the context. You know.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
But one thing I would say I've come to realize
about love in the midst of everything is that at
the end of the day, love is a choice and
love is sacrifice. I feel like these two things kind
of sum up what love is like. Obviously, you can
be infatuated with someone, attracted to someone all that good stuff,
(08:56):
but like when they start to get annoying, when you
can't stand there them, stand them anymore, Like, will those
feelings sustain?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
It's no, it won't.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Like I feel like at that point, you have to
choose to love the person. You have to choose to
ignore all the bullshits, all the craziness, all the annoying
things they do, Like, you have to make a decision
too be like, Okay, regardless of all this stuff, I
would choose to love you. That's basically what I've come
(09:31):
to understand love to mean. And I think it's it's
not easy to love someone. It's it's not as easy
as it looks on TV or in videos. It's like
a full time job. So like you know, at the
end of the day, love is still a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Still I agree? Have you Like, because you said you're
no longer in relationship, did relationship end and a crash
out either on your behalf or the other?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
No, no crash out. It was like a very mature
you mature.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
No I'm very much lie, I'm for real, like it
was very mature and you know, civil situation. It wasn't
anything crazy. Okay, Yeah, I feel like you know, when
when to grown people in a relationship, it doesn't have
(10:32):
to get messy, you know, it can just be very respectful,
very sincere.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I'm very like you know civil.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Okay, this is true. I'll give you that, Okay on
the show, I like to play a game where you
have to fill in the blank. Okay, all right, the
older I get, the less I.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
The older I get, the less im I don't know,
do that get the less the less people ask you
how you're doing. I guess the more people just ask
you for shiit like.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Okay, hey, how are you? What's up? Yeah? I need this, this, this,
you know.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, it's like greet me. I'm a human.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah. The older you get, the more.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
That's fair. I think that just comes with success too.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Okay, you would never believe me if I told you.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
You would never believe me if I told you I
can cook?
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, would you be cooking? What is like your goal to?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I mean Nigerian stuff obviously, Like you know I can
fix your nice jel of fries. You know, jello fries,
does it hats it hats Jelo fries? Chicken you know
some chicken plan?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
You know who taught you how to cook?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I mean my mom, I grew up. I grew up.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
I had sisters too, like, so you just pick up
these things really easy. But I don't know, it's very
often though. I only cook if, like, if it's a
very special occasion, you know, or it's a very special person,
then I would like get into the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Nice. Yeah, did you cook for yourself when you left
home and moved to Legos?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Of course every time.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
For some reason, I feel like you was a hot
pocket Donald's type of guy.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Nah.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
First things first, there's no McDonald's in Nigeria, but we
have other stuff. There's other brands in Nigeria which shall
not be named. But yeah, I mean I was cooking
lots of noodles, you know, like there was a there
was a time I was eating noodles like a ridiculous
(12:57):
number of times a month, like was crazy. I feel
like at that point the noodle company needed to endorse
me or something.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Definitely, from the time you left home to you know,
for being on your own, how long did it take
for you to like pretty much make it?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
So the thing is making it in quotes, It's like
I feel there isn't so much as a definite moment
where you can see I made it. At this moment,
I feel like success is a very it's a very
ongoing process and it's like there are some seriously blood
(13:41):
lines there. So I can't really tell you that exact moment,
but I would say when I started to like make
money from my actual music, not just the production that
like I was doing, but like my own music, I
would say it took me like maybe four or five
(14:01):
years of being in legos and like you know, doing
my thing all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
You know, five years, that's not bad.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, From time to time, it's good to do.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
From time to time, it's good to to do exercise,
go to the gym, you know, don't sit down all day,
you know, get active.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
It's good for your health. It's good for everything. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Jay Z is a rapper. Okay, Okay. The craziest thing
that happened on tour had to be the time when.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
One of the crazy crazy things was when someone threw
a bra on stage. And the first one it's just
like the quickest thing I can think of. There's a
lot more crazy stuff, but I can't really say it
on camera.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Why call you because I can't?
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Who participated?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
No, No, I just prefer not to.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Okay, By the end of twenty twenty five, I hope to.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
By the end of twenty twenty five, I hope to,
you know, have released a very successful EP c K
the second. I hope to also get back on the road.
You know, I've been on a break from the road
for like six seven months now, you know, recording music,
taking care of my mental health, all that stuff. I'm
(15:29):
super excited to get back on the road. And yeah,
by the end of the year, I also want to
just celebrate a successful year and spend time with my
family and loved ones.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
How do you maintain your mental health when you are
on the road.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
It's not easy to do that. Actually, well, I like
to meditate a lot quiet time. I like to have
quiet time to just like be in my thoughts. I
talk to family members from time to time to just like,
you know, keep myself ground there. I pray a lot
(16:06):
as well, and I try to just get as much
sleep as possible and go to the gym too. I
feel like exercise really helps to like not just build
you physically, but also mentally. You know, I think exercise
is like mental exercise too.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah for sure. Yeah, that's a good routine. That's like
your morning routine. Yeah yeah, Okay, when it's all said
and done, I want my legacy.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
To be when it's all said and done, I want
my legacy to be that I innovated afrobits and that
I took the sound a step further or five steps
for that, or ten steps for that, like not just
even the sound, but music in general. Like, you know,
I want to break the norm. I want to do
(16:58):
exciting stuff that hasn't been done before. I want to
break boundaries that haven't been broken before. And I want
to basically trail blaze, you know, a whole new movements
in music.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
When you see others participating in afrobeats, I know, like
within the hip hop space, sometimes people feel like, oh,
hip hop went mainstream, it's watered down, X Y and Z.
Do you ever feel like that about afrobeats and where
it's growing too, or do you think you guys are
still doing a good job of maintaining like the essence
(17:32):
and authenticity of the genre.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, the thing is, you know, afrobeats.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Or any genre for that matter, it's like in a
constant flux, is in a constant state of evolution.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Like you know, going back to my.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Parents' time, when my parents were young and they were
listening to music afro beats, it wasn't even they weren't
calling it afrobats back then. They you know, the most
popular African genres were actually high life, not afrobeats. So
obviously America, Europe, everybody knows, oh afrobeats, afrobeas, it is
(18:17):
like a term that has been coined to just to
generalize the whole thing. It's kind of like if I
say America beats, how does that sound? You know, oh,
American music. Let's say, you know, I'm in a European
context and I'm trying to describe American music and I
call it American beats. It's a disservice to American music
(18:39):
because there's country, there's jazz, there's this, there's that. So
it's kind of like the way it is with African music.
So back in the days, there was high life, and
high life was played by live bands, wasn't really recorded.
You didn't really have people going into the studios and
producers making beats and the musicians sing on it. They
would jam and vibe out for like seven eight minutes,
(19:02):
nine minutes and record that jam session and that's the song.
They put out the song, put out the album, and
that's the album.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
You have songs.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Fifteen minutes songs are not fifteen minutes now, even amongst
the Africans, we don't make fifteen minutes songs anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
That is evolution.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Not every musician records their music with their live band
in the studio. Now there's producers that make beats. You
have live musicians that, like you know, they play guitar
on a beat, or they play violin on a beat,
or they play whatever on the beats, but it's still
a beat, is still a producer that made it.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
That's evolution. The rhythms have changed as well.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Like you know, now African music is a lot more
club friendly than it used to be. The African music
in the time of my parents was not very club friendly.
It was just you know, live and stuff. So it's evolved.
So I feel, coming back to your question, in the
modern day, if you look at other you know, people
(20:08):
who are outside the culture doing the sound or contributing
to the sound. I mean, they're going to obviously do
what they will with the sound. You cannot really get
to keep what people do with the sound, you know.
I think if people take the sound and do something
(20:29):
interesting and that thing shifts the terrain and people love it,
why not. I Mean it's kind of like I would
say with R and B and hip hop as well,
Like there was a time R and B was very
R and B, and there was a time it started
to like have bloodlines with hip hop, like you started
to have trap R and B that you know, sounded
(20:50):
like trap music, but they were singing, you know, stuff
like that. It's kind of the same thing with afrobeats too,
Like when American artists make afrobeats, you know, they're not
already saying the lambards and the stuff we say, like
the slangs, you know, because aphrobeit is more than just
the beats, is the culture is the slang, the language.
Americans don't really speak the language, but they just sing
(21:11):
on the beats, and you know, sometimes it sounds nice,
sometimes maybe not as nice. But you know, nobody is
out here like a police saying, oh, you cannot do
afrobeats because you're American. I mean, you're free to try
do your thing, like you know, but we know what
it is, like Africans, we know where the sound started from.
(21:35):
You know, nobody is erasing the history there. It's there,
the legacy is there, and I think it's just up
to us too, you know, to do something interesting with
the sound and make it relevant to our time, the
time we live in, because at the end of the day,
this is not nineteen seventy, this is twenty twenty five.
Like the music has to reflect the time. So those
(21:57):
are my two cents on that.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Would you say, so high life is like the father
of what modern day afrobeat is.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Now, I would say in a way, because you know,
Fellaculty is the founder of afrobat not without the s
aprobits so afrobeats, But then he used to be a
high live musician before he invented afrobits.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Many people don't know that.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
But like when I did like reading on him and
all that stuff, like I discovered that he had a
high life band called I think Colo Lobitos or something
like that, or egypt Atya, I'm not sure which of
them it was, but basically he had a high live
band and high life music was very popular, and I
think he went to university in the UK and when
(22:46):
he was in London he kind of reinvented himself and
came up with a new you know, fusion and called
it afrobits, basically mixing Euroba drums and jazz basically, and
he was calling out the governments. It was a very
revolutionary genre. It wasn't just for pleasure, like listening pleasure.
(23:08):
The music was for revolution. So the music we make
now is a lot more for listening pleasure than revolution,
you know, because you know, we turn up to it
in the club where you know, people drinking alcohol, dancing
and all that stuff. Back in the days, nobody was
really trying to dance to that, like it was some
serious self you know.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, so I would say I wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I don't know if I would say high Life was
was the forefather of afrobeat or anything. But I'll just
tell you fella used to make high life. So do
with this information?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Will there's some DNA to it? Actually?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Okay. I like having these conversations. I feel like I
learned so much because at least here, I like, all
we see is American culture, Like we don't know, it's
not like I feel like it's an insult to say
afrobeats now, but afrobeats isn't like being forced on us.
It's not our regular so and I know American cultures
(24:10):
dominates entertainment worldwide, but it's cool to hear. And where
are like the places that you guys typically find music
at least like growing up, Like did you guys have
like a LimeWire and stuff like that or.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Yeah, I mean we had everything you guys have basically,
but I would say at the time, like me growing up,
regardless of the limewires and the iTunes and all that
good stuff, in Nigeria, there was like a system of
(24:49):
distribution of music. It sounds weird when I when I
say it, but basically bootleg was the system at the time.
So there was a there's a place called a Laba Market,
which is like a I don't know how I described
(25:10):
this in an American context, but like a flea market
more like electronics and stuff like it's a they sell
all kinds of stuff here, right, And this is the
place where like music used to be pirated bootlegged basically,
so you'd see albums bootlegged and they would like sell
(25:32):
these on the streets. And that's how music used to
blow up back in the days, because like the CDs
would just be everywhere on the streets and the music
blows up, and obviously radio and all that stuff. So
we used to discover afrobeats from the bootleg CDs or
from DJ mixes. You know, they would do DJ mixes
and bootleg them on the streets and sell. Then there
(25:56):
was blogs for free downloads, lots of you know, there
were lots of blo I used to upload the music
for free, you know, free downloads, and I feel like
over time streaming kind of started to replace that, but
it's still there, Like a lot of people still download
stuff for free. I think that's kind of why it's
(26:18):
a bit difficult to track sales of afrobeats if you
tracked sales the way America America will track sales, like
we'll probably have so many records that are probably silver
in America but like twenty times platinum in Nigeria because
we have the population, like Nigeria has over two hundred
million people, and these people are consuming music on a
(26:41):
daily basis. It's just probably not on Spotify or Apple Music.
So an American looking at spotifile Apple Music may not
get the full accurate picture of the consumption of music
in Nigeria. So it's kind of like I could go
on and on and tell you like this, but we'll
(27:01):
probably be here for like six more hours. That's basically,
you know, just a lowdown of how afro beats used
to be before it came to this point.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
We are like, yeah, I feel like even now you
gotta follow some of the DJs to get what's actually
going on over there.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, of course, yeah, of course.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
I feel DJs are very important in terms of afrobeats
because before there was TikTok Instagram, the DJs were the
ones who carried afrobeats. You know, they still do obviously.
I'm just saying like back then, it was like basically
the DJs who were like pushing it, playing it in parties,
playing it in clubs like you know, in the days
(27:44):
of two Phase, the bands, you know, it was DJs.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Well, c K, thank you so much for joining me.
I know we got K two on the way tour
on the way. I'm super excited for both. I'll definitely
be in the building. Can you just shout out your
grammar let everybody know where to follow you if they
don't already.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
All right, you can follow me on ka Y, on
the Score, Yle on ig, Twitter, everywhere you know. But
go listen to K the second, first, and foremost. Don't
sleep on your bicycle, don't be told, don't listen to
it on Instagram. Go listen to it right now.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Until next time, guys talk soon. We need to Talk
It is a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network.
For more podcasts from the Black Effect Podcast Network, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Maxture you guys, follow We Need to
Talk at wntt LK on Instagram and TikTok
Host
Nyla Symone
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.