January 15, 2024 • 27 mins
Skye Perryman, President and CEO of Democracy Forward, returned to Woke AF Daily to look ahead to 2024 and the fight for our lives that lies in front of us.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with
Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker.
As today it is MLK Day, and you know, I
will say this first of all, like how fast is
January going? It blows my mind because I just feel
(00:31):
like we're just getting started with the new year, and
it's like we're already in the third week. Nonetheless, folks,
MLK Day is an obnoxious day in America. It's the
day when Republicans and white supremaists love to pull out
the one or two quotes plucked perfectly from Martin Luther
(00:54):
King's life, a man that they had assassinated, and talk
about upholding you know, King's dream and all of those things,
knowing good, goddamn well that for those Octanagerians, Martin Luther
King should still be alive. But because of hateful, vindictive
(01:17):
racist people like them, like the MAGA supremacists, he is not.
And everything that their party is working to do is
to absolutely go against every single thing that that man fought,
(01:37):
was jailed for, beaten for, and eventually was murdered for.
You know, people forget that just because you see pictures
which I believe now have been purposely made to be
black and white. We had color photographs, folks. Ruby Bridges
(02:00):
is sixty five years old, the little girl who integrated
schools after Brown versus the Board of Education. She's sixty
five years old. So when you're looking at the Mitch McConnell's,
the Joe Biden's, the Donald Trumps, looking at these people
(02:22):
that are in their eighties, understand that Martin Luther King,
on top of many many black leaders that were resistance fighters,
didn't make it out of their teens, of their twenties,
of their thirties, or saw their forties. And had it
(02:45):
not been for this blood soaked hate that they are
right now stirring and stewing in, these would be our
elder statesman. And so I offer that today because I
(03:10):
believe that we are in the fight for our lives.
I can't overstate it enough. It isn't about parties, it
isn't about people. It is about freedom, It is about liberty,
(03:33):
It is about justice, It is about dignity. It is
about hope. And so I hope as today that you
reflect on this day off, if you are lucky enough
(03:54):
and privileged enough to have it, that you think about
what your role in response is in this movement, because
that is what we are trying to create, a movement
that is not about again a party or a man,
but about our collective belief and the possibility of different
(04:16):
people from different groups and communities and religions and genders
and gender identities and orientations being able to live side
by side, being able to coexist peacefully, not from a
place of tolerating one another, not even from a place
of accepting one another, but from a place of celebrating
(04:40):
one another. Because the more I learn, the more open
my heart is, the more human I am, and the
more that I see our faiths intertwined. So you're suffering
is my suffering. My win is your win. And think
(05:07):
about how we are going to advance that cause, how
we are going to expand that movement. Coming up next, friends,
my conversation with Sky Perriman, President and CEO of Democracy Forward.
Democracy Forward is a leading the legal fight against the
(05:31):
extremist policies you've seen in the headlines recently, from defending
President Biden's student alone forgiveness program to keeping medication abortion available.
I can think of no better conversation to have today.
Than this one, which indeed was pre recorded, but really
important and salient about why the legal fight is just
(05:57):
as important for us as we understand and our own
fight and part in this movement for justice. Folks, I
am very excited to welcome back to wok F Daily,
Sky Perryman, who is the president and CEO of Democracy Forward.
(06:19):
You know when I even just the name makes me
happy because I need people that want to move democracy forward,
and you all, as a national legal organization try and
advance democracy, which I can only imagine in this climate
(06:41):
where every case, whether it's at the state level federal level,
is just so consequential. So Sky, first give us you
know your your thoughts on twenty twenty three the Eagle
News the fight that we had and are having around
(07:06):
holding on to our democracy.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I think it was a really consequential year. I agree
with you there. I mean, look, the year started off
with litigation that extremists had filed in Texas late last
year seeking to remove the approval of a reproductive health
medication mif of pristone, which is known by some by
(07:30):
the abortion pill, questioning FDA's authority. We had extremist groups
that were seeking to promote the big lie and the
independent theory of state legislatures to suppress votes, seeking to
bring their cases to the Supreme Court. A range of
(07:51):
extremist organizations, including led by individuals who served in the
prior administration, that sought to roll back racial equity measures
for higher education at the Supreme Court and then throughout
the country, we saw while voters are showing up in
record numbers voting on issues, voting in states like Ohio
(08:16):
to protect abord access, to protect healthcare access, while people
are trying to make their voices heard in ideologically and
geographically diverse areas of the country. These are not all
places that you might think are the bastion of every
progressive policy. You have people of many different views, but
(08:37):
all coming together to say, this is democracy, this is
about people's rights. We may disagree that there's some foundational
things here, and at the same time, we have state
attorneys general and local officials and others throughout the country
really seeking to undermine the ability of people to vote
and to make their voices heard. And so I think
we saw some triumphs for democracy in this last year.
(09:01):
The voters in Ohio showing up against many attempts to
mislead on that ballot, to provide misinformation, and yet they
showed up and voted overwhelmingly to protect reproductive freedom for all.
So I think we saw some things like that that
are really encouraging. The Supreme Court did not endorse this
(09:22):
extreme independent theory of the state legislature. The Supreme Court
did stay, which means, you know, pause this extremist ruling
out of Texas that would have removed approval for medication
abortion with myth of christone. But then at the same time,
I think we saw really what the stakes are because
there were a number of places where there was a
(09:44):
rollback of rights on racial equity in higher education. A
number of states continued to ban or otherwise restrict abortion
access even though we know that the vast majority of
people in this country support it. And we're seeing this
constellation of extremist, far right groups really seeking to push
(10:05):
their views even though they don't represent the majority of people.
So I think twenty twenty three showed a lot of
what's at stake, and there were some good wins, but
there were some really unfortunate losses, and we're learning, you know,
democracy has never been a given and it's only as
good as those of us that are going to do
the work to continue it, and that that works for
(10:27):
all of us.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
You know, Sky, thank you for laying out that picture,
because I think that you're right. We did see some wins,
but we actually saw some devastating losses. Right at the
Supreme Court with the affirmative Action case. We saw, you know,
I'm in New York and one hundred year old ban
(10:52):
on guns was overturned, you know, in a densely populated
city and area. Were watching, and I love the imagery
that you conjured by saying a constellation of these right
wing groups that are putting their clause, their stamp all
(11:14):
over this country. And I wonder, you know, where I
am concerned is that the courts are have always been
our pathway to liberation in this country for groups that
have been traditionally marginalized. We also know that during the
(11:36):
Trump administration, that man placed hundreds of right wing judges
sprinkling them all over the country, in some instances to
protect himself and in other instances to further the cause
of these right wing groups. And so when you look
right now at the comparison in terms of what the
(11:57):
Biden administration has been able to do around judgeships and
how you know, this Department of Justice has been taking
on a kind of web you know, of of of
attempts to try and overturn a lot of decisions that
(12:19):
have been made or bring you know, legal cases. How
confident are you in the courts still being the pathway
to not even holding democracy? I won't even talk about
expanding it.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Well, here's the thing. The courts are both a frontline
in the battle for democracy, whether they are good or
whether they are ill, whether they are promoting the rights
of people, which is what the courts are supposed to
do in a democracy, or whether they are rolling back
the rights at the invitation of far right and extremist groups.
(12:55):
The courts are where the fight is in many cases,
I mean communities are too, but the court that is
the place that the far right is going to seek
to go to try to win battles that they cannot
win among the vast majority of people, and it is
the place that we all must be At the same time,
it is also a great backstop and last resort we
(13:16):
see the courts deliver for people even amidst some of
the trends that you have cited and devastating things that
I forgot. And when you first asked me the question,
I mean student loan debt. I was just reading about
how people are not able to afford their holiday expenses
because of the student loan payments that are coming back.
And of course the Supreme Court stopped the President's initiative
(13:40):
to relieve student debt, and economic pressures are rising out
of the pandemic, which was something that we represented a
range of legal scholars it said was completely lawful and appropriate,
but the Supreme Court disagreed. So I think at the
same time, the courts are a backstop. I mean this
year in Arkansas, we saw Governor Huckabee Sanders sign a
(14:02):
law that was going to criminalize librarians. Our team took
that law of court on behalf of librarians and others
in the state and alongside a broad coalition, and we
want a court order that is temporarily blocking that that
unlawful violation of the First Amendment and protecting libraries and
librarians in Arkansas. And so we see in our work
(14:24):
every day how the courts are still important and can
serve a very protective purpose for democracy. But we also
see how they're a place where the fights really are
and where there is a coordinated attempt to misuse our
courts to have them do something other than justice, to
have them roll back the rights of people. And so
I think my takeaway is that regardless of whether you
(14:48):
believe in change the courts or not, you've got to
be there because that's where these fights are, and that's
where democracy is it's arising in these case and I
think there is some reason to be optimistic. We've seen
a number of judges confirmed, federal judges confirmed that reflect
(15:08):
the diversity, the rich diversity and strength of our diversity
as a country. We see judges in some of our
work that we're appointed by individuals who might not agree
with an expansive vision of civil rights or of constitutional rights,
but nevertheless that apply the rule of law. And then
(15:30):
we also see extremists like what we've seen in Texas
and what we've seen in a number of places, where
there are judges actively rolling back the rights of people
at the invitation of these groups. And it's really important
that we be there with the full power of the
American people and the communities that are impacted, to use
our voice to push back.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I mean, Texas has been a petri dish of the
Republican extreme US for for quite some time. But their
recent headlines. First it was you know, the the the
buoys that they wanted to put out to like physically
harm migrants that are trying to cross. Then it was,
(16:16):
you know, most recently the case of the of the
woman that needed to flee the state because the Texas
Supreme Court denied her and an abortion with a with
a fetus that was unviable. You know, now it is
it is uh, the governors have now the governor has
now said that it is okay for law enforcement to
(16:38):
arrest migrants or or those rather that they suspect of
being migrants. And so when we see these things taking place,
and then I want to add on top of that,
Donald Trump uh most recently saying that he's going to
be a dictator on day one. Uh most recently saying that,
(17:00):
you know, we're going to take back the White House
in twenty twenty four and then will negotiate afterwards because
I'm owed, you know, years, and then I will weaponize
and be your retribution. Do you think that people understand
the stakes that we are that we are up against
(17:21):
that democracy held and is holding on by a thread
right now. But that if if a Donald Trump or
any frankly body word to take on outside of a
Democrat this election in twenty twenty four, that we don't
have the backstops anymore. We don't have the fall safes
(17:46):
or the guard rails. Do people? Do you feel like
people recognize what is at stake?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
We have to hope they do. I mean, look, democracy
did hold in many ways because of the work that
people like you and your community and the listeners that
tune into your show, because of the work that legal
organizations and other advocates did in the prior administration. But
people lost out there. I mean, it held on, but
(18:15):
as you said, it held on by a thread. And
we have a number of communities in this country that
were worse off after the prior administration, after their prior
administration's assault on democracy. And we have a number of
communities in this country that are worse off now that
we have extremist legal organizations seeking to misuse our courts
to roll back the rights of people, to deprive people
(18:36):
of basic human rights and civil rights. And so I
think they're really high stakes and One of the things
we're focused on at Democracy Forward is making sure that
people know that we all have a role to play here.
I saw a depiction the other day of a picture
that had a single individual saying, you know, I'm a
single individual, what am I supposed to do here? And
(18:59):
then there was one that six million. You know, we're
all single individuals, and it's our collective power in coming
together that can really be important in this time in
demanding that our government work for all people, that the
people that are entrusted to represent us, the people that
are entrusted to be interpreting our constitution and our laws
in our courts, that they believe in democracy and want
(19:22):
to move it forward. A lot of what we're doing
at Democracy Forward as we look to twenty twenty four
is not only fighting the fights of today. And by
the way, we were representing the nation's medical community in
the Texas Supreme Court last weekend in Kate Cox's case,
which is a really tragic case and shows you what's
at stake here for so many families and people across
(19:43):
the country. But we're going to take on those fights,
but we're also looking at what needs to be done
when you have public reports coming out on an almost
weekly basis about quote, shadow governments that are being formed
to undermine the independence of our civil so servius, to
roll back lawful policies that help protect people, to politicize
(20:06):
our institutions, and so there's a lot of that work
that needs to be happening to really understand the stakes
and communicate about that. And so I'm really happy that
you're having me on today for us to have this conversation,
but also that your listeners, hopefully as they're reflecting on
the end of twenty twenty three in the beginning of
twenty four, that we can really look together ahead and
(20:27):
see what we need to do, because it is the
responsibility of all of us to be informed to show up.
But think about individual people in Ohio might not have
thought they had the power, and they have won a
right for people in that state that many thought was
impossible because of the collective power that people can build.
So I do believe that if we come together when
(20:47):
we fight, we know that democracy will win. That people
have to have the fight in them.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
What are you at democracy forward? Paying attention to what
is on your radar twenty twenty four in terms of
legal cases that you are on that you are going
to be defending, like what is what's on your radar?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Well at the Supreme Court, of course, there are a
number of cases that the Court is hearing this term
that could really radically alter the way that government functions
and its ability to function for people in our country.
There are a variety of cases in a category of
law called administrative law, which is really how federal agencies
(21:33):
are able to implement policies that Congress passes to help people,
and the extremists and far right legal movements are seeking
to undermine the ability of government to work for people.
So we're weighing in and a lot of those cases
on behalf of small businesses, and on behalf of scholars,
and on behalf of many folks that have a stake,
and we'll be watching those a lot. Of course, given
(21:54):
the stakes of the twenty twenty four election, We'll be
watching activity and communities throughout the country where there will
be efforts to suppress votes, efforts to try to keep
people from participating in the political process, and where there
is a need, you will find us there. You will
find us supporting organizations that will be there. And then
of course We represent the generic manufacturer of mythipristom, which
(22:17):
is the abortion pill, and it's the majority of the market,
and the Supreme Court just last week has agreed to
hear to get again here a case it is a
resident of Texas, and so we'll be on the front
lines of that fight as well as fighting against state
laws that are seeking to override the federal government's authority
(22:38):
to regulate medication abortion and make it available to all people.
You know, there's no shortage of work in twenty twenty four,
but I think really focusing on how we make sure
that people are empowered to participate in their government, to
show up, to show up for their communities, to show
up for democracy. We're going to be really focused on that.
(22:59):
And then we're also going to folks us on a
lot of these legal fights.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
And last question for you. You know you mentioned that
you know the individual you know, recognizing that they have power,
and as a collective we have more powered them. We know,
what can people that are listening to this show do?
How can they get involved with democracy forward? How can
they offer support? Please?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Well, first of all, let me say, I think if
if we in twenty twenty four, if every day we
woke up, or maybe not even every day, once a week,
we ask that question of ourselves and of our families
and of our communities. I think democracy would be in
a great place at the end of next year, and
so I think one is we've got to ask that question,
what can we do for us? Specifically, I would encourage
(23:49):
our listeners to go to Democracyforward dot org, to sign
up to get our newsletter, to follow us on social media.
We have a lot of opportunities for people to get involved.
We will be around the country this year. We're going
to be in Tennessee doing some work. We're going to
be in Texas, We'll be at south By Southwest. You know,
we'll be around the country. We'd love to connect with
you when we're in your community. But also you can
(24:10):
get in touch with us through our work and stay
informed about these fights, and we really need that in
the days ahead. But even more broadly, I think people
need to reflect on democracy is about all of us,
and it's about a way of life, and it's about
an affirmation that it's people need to be able to
pursue their happiness and to pursue their dreams here in
a country, and we need a country that creates the
(24:32):
conditions for that. And so whether you go and get
a public library card and start supporting your public library,
whether you start supporting a local community effort that's seeking
to inform people about efforts, whether you go buy a
subscription to a reputable news source and pay for some
of that content that's created that's fighting misinformation. I think
(24:53):
there's a lot of things we can do in our
daily lives. You don't have to be a lawyer, you
don't have to consider yourself an advocate an activist. There's
so much that we can do. We certainly need to
vote and make a plan and get our friends to
make a plan, but there's a lot that we can
do in our daily lives, from supporting our libraries to
supporting our communities, showing up at a school board meeting
and listening. I mean, we have extreamists that are infiltrating
(25:16):
these school board meetings and we're on the front lines
with parents and teachers all across the country. That's another
thing we're going to be doing in twenty twenty four
on these fights. You know, show up, even if you
don't have a kid in the school, this is your
community and this is what's happening, and so I think
that there's a real power in that. We've seen that
throughout this country's history, we have seen times of course,
(25:38):
the democracy has not delivered for people, for all people
in this country because of systems and structures that we're
trying to keep democracy from many folks, from women, from
people of color, from people with low incomes, from folks
that look different or spoke a different language, or worship differently.
And so these are fights that this country has been
through before, but they're high stakes and we've got to
(26:01):
pay attention. So I would just encourage your listeners to
ask that question every week, and then, of course, very simply,
you can go to democracyforward dot org and if you
sign up, you'll at least get a piece of mail
once a week with a lot of great ways that
you can get involved.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Sky Perryman, thank you so much for the work that
you are doing over at Democracy Forward, and you know,
for amplifying the issues for fighting on behalf of all
of us and on democracy. We appreciate you and hope
to have more conversations with you and the coming year.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Well, yes, and thank you for everything that you do,
and thanks to your community. I hope everyone has a
good holiday and a RESTful and happy new Year. And
we've got a lot of work ahead of us.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yes we do, Yes we do appreciate you. That is
it for me today, dear friends on Woke a f
as always Power to the people and to all the people. Power,
Get woke and stay
Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with
Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker.
As today it is MLK Day, and you know, I
will say this first of all, like how fast is
January going? It blows my mind because I just feel
(00:31):
like we're just getting started with the new year, and
it's like we're already in the third week. Nonetheless, folks,
MLK Day is an obnoxious day in America. It's the
day when Republicans and white supremaists love to pull out
the one or two quotes plucked perfectly from Martin Luther
(00:54):
King's life, a man that they had assassinated, and talk
about upholding you know, King's dream and all of those things,
knowing good, goddamn well that for those Octanagerians, Martin Luther
King should still be alive. But because of hateful, vindictive
(01:17):
racist people like them, like the MAGA supremacists, he is not.
And everything that their party is working to do is
to absolutely go against every single thing that that man fought,
(01:37):
was jailed for, beaten for, and eventually was murdered for.
You know, people forget that just because you see pictures
which I believe now have been purposely made to be
black and white. We had color photographs, folks. Ruby Bridges
(02:00):
is sixty five years old, the little girl who integrated
schools after Brown versus the Board of Education. She's sixty
five years old. So when you're looking at the Mitch McConnell's,
the Joe Biden's, the Donald Trumps, looking at these people
(02:22):
that are in their eighties, understand that Martin Luther King,
on top of many many black leaders that were resistance fighters,
didn't make it out of their teens, of their twenties,
of their thirties, or saw their forties. And had it
(02:45):
not been for this blood soaked hate that they are
right now stirring and stewing in, these would be our
elder statesman. And so I offer that today because I
(03:10):
believe that we are in the fight for our lives.
I can't overstate it enough. It isn't about parties, it
isn't about people. It is about freedom, It is about liberty,
(03:33):
It is about justice, It is about dignity. It is
about hope. And so I hope as today that you
reflect on this day off, if you are lucky enough
(03:54):
and privileged enough to have it, that you think about
what your role in response is in this movement, because
that is what we are trying to create, a movement
that is not about again a party or a man,
but about our collective belief and the possibility of different
(04:16):
people from different groups and communities and religions and genders
and gender identities and orientations being able to live side
by side, being able to coexist peacefully, not from a
place of tolerating one another, not even from a place
of accepting one another, but from a place of celebrating
(04:40):
one another. Because the more I learn, the more open
my heart is, the more human I am, and the
more that I see our faiths intertwined. So you're suffering
is my suffering. My win is your win. And think
(05:07):
about how we are going to advance that cause, how
we are going to expand that movement. Coming up next, friends,
my conversation with Sky Perriman, President and CEO of Democracy Forward.
Democracy Forward is a leading the legal fight against the
(05:31):
extremist policies you've seen in the headlines recently, from defending
President Biden's student alone forgiveness program to keeping medication abortion available.
I can think of no better conversation to have today.
Than this one, which indeed was pre recorded, but really
important and salient about why the legal fight is just
(05:57):
as important for us as we understand and our own
fight and part in this movement for justice. Folks, I
am very excited to welcome back to wok F Daily,
Sky Perryman, who is the president and CEO of Democracy Forward.
(06:19):
You know when I even just the name makes me
happy because I need people that want to move democracy forward,
and you all, as a national legal organization try and
advance democracy, which I can only imagine in this climate
(06:41):
where every case, whether it's at the state level federal level,
is just so consequential. So Sky, first give us you
know your your thoughts on twenty twenty three the Eagle
News the fight that we had and are having around
(07:06):
holding on to our democracy.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I think it was a really consequential year. I agree
with you there. I mean, look, the year started off
with litigation that extremists had filed in Texas late last
year seeking to remove the approval of a reproductive health
medication mif of pristone, which is known by some by
(07:30):
the abortion pill, questioning FDA's authority. We had extremist groups
that were seeking to promote the big lie and the
independent theory of state legislatures to suppress votes, seeking to
bring their cases to the Supreme Court. A range of
(07:51):
extremist organizations, including led by individuals who served in the
prior administration, that sought to roll back racial equity measures
for higher education at the Supreme Court and then throughout
the country, we saw while voters are showing up in
record numbers voting on issues, voting in states like Ohio
(08:16):
to protect abord access, to protect healthcare access, while people
are trying to make their voices heard in ideologically and
geographically diverse areas of the country. These are not all
places that you might think are the bastion of every
progressive policy. You have people of many different views, but
(08:37):
all coming together to say, this is democracy, this is
about people's rights. We may disagree that there's some foundational
things here, and at the same time, we have state
attorneys general and local officials and others throughout the country
really seeking to undermine the ability of people to vote
and to make their voices heard. And so I think
we saw some triumphs for democracy in this last year.
(09:01):
The voters in Ohio showing up against many attempts to
mislead on that ballot, to provide misinformation, and yet they
showed up and voted overwhelmingly to protect reproductive freedom for all.
So I think we saw some things like that that
are really encouraging. The Supreme Court did not endorse this
(09:22):
extreme independent theory of the state legislature. The Supreme Court
did stay, which means, you know, pause this extremist ruling
out of Texas that would have removed approval for medication
abortion with myth of christone. But then at the same time,
I think we saw really what the stakes are because
there were a number of places where there was a
(09:44):
rollback of rights on racial equity in higher education. A
number of states continued to ban or otherwise restrict abortion
access even though we know that the vast majority of
people in this country support it. And we're seeing this
constellation of extremist, far right groups really seeking to push
(10:05):
their views even though they don't represent the majority of people.
So I think twenty twenty three showed a lot of
what's at stake, and there were some good wins, but
there were some really unfortunate losses, and we're learning, you know,
democracy has never been a given and it's only as
good as those of us that are going to do
the work to continue it, and that that works for
(10:27):
all of us.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
You know, Sky, thank you for laying out that picture,
because I think that you're right. We did see some wins,
but we actually saw some devastating losses. Right at the
Supreme Court with the affirmative Action case. We saw, you know,
I'm in New York and one hundred year old ban
(10:52):
on guns was overturned, you know, in a densely populated
city and area. Were watching, and I love the imagery
that you conjured by saying a constellation of these right
wing groups that are putting their clause, their stamp all
(11:14):
over this country. And I wonder, you know, where I
am concerned is that the courts are have always been
our pathway to liberation in this country for groups that
have been traditionally marginalized. We also know that during the
(11:36):
Trump administration, that man placed hundreds of right wing judges
sprinkling them all over the country, in some instances to
protect himself and in other instances to further the cause
of these right wing groups. And so when you look
right now at the comparison in terms of what the
(11:57):
Biden administration has been able to do around judgeships and
how you know, this Department of Justice has been taking
on a kind of web you know, of of of
attempts to try and overturn a lot of decisions that
(12:19):
have been made or bring you know, legal cases. How
confident are you in the courts still being the pathway
to not even holding democracy? I won't even talk about
expanding it.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Well, here's the thing. The courts are both a frontline
in the battle for democracy, whether they are good or
whether they are ill, whether they are promoting the rights
of people, which is what the courts are supposed to
do in a democracy, or whether they are rolling back
the rights at the invitation of far right and extremist groups.
(12:55):
The courts are where the fight is in many cases,
I mean communities are too, but the court that is
the place that the far right is going to seek
to go to try to win battles that they cannot
win among the vast majority of people, and it is
the place that we all must be At the same time,
it is also a great backstop and last resort we
(13:16):
see the courts deliver for people even amidst some of
the trends that you have cited and devastating things that
I forgot. And when you first asked me the question,
I mean student loan debt. I was just reading about
how people are not able to afford their holiday expenses
because of the student loan payments that are coming back.
And of course the Supreme Court stopped the President's initiative
(13:40):
to relieve student debt, and economic pressures are rising out
of the pandemic, which was something that we represented a
range of legal scholars it said was completely lawful and appropriate,
but the Supreme Court disagreed. So I think at the
same time, the courts are a backstop. I mean this
year in Arkansas, we saw Governor Huckabee Sanders sign a
(14:02):
law that was going to criminalize librarians. Our team took
that law of court on behalf of librarians and others
in the state and alongside a broad coalition, and we
want a court order that is temporarily blocking that that
unlawful violation of the First Amendment and protecting libraries and
librarians in Arkansas. And so we see in our work
(14:24):
every day how the courts are still important and can
serve a very protective purpose for democracy. But we also
see how they're a place where the fights really are
and where there is a coordinated attempt to misuse our
courts to have them do something other than justice, to
have them roll back the rights of people. And so
I think my takeaway is that regardless of whether you
(14:48):
believe in change the courts or not, you've got to
be there because that's where these fights are, and that's
where democracy is it's arising in these case and I
think there is some reason to be optimistic. We've seen
a number of judges confirmed, federal judges confirmed that reflect
(15:08):
the diversity, the rich diversity and strength of our diversity
as a country. We see judges in some of our
work that we're appointed by individuals who might not agree
with an expansive vision of civil rights or of constitutional rights,
but nevertheless that apply the rule of law. And then
(15:30):
we also see extremists like what we've seen in Texas
and what we've seen in a number of places, where
there are judges actively rolling back the rights of people
at the invitation of these groups. And it's really important
that we be there with the full power of the
American people and the communities that are impacted, to use
our voice to push back.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I mean, Texas has been a petri dish of the
Republican extreme US for for quite some time. But their
recent headlines. First it was you know, the the the
buoys that they wanted to put out to like physically
harm migrants that are trying to cross. Then it was,
(16:16):
you know, most recently the case of the of the
woman that needed to flee the state because the Texas
Supreme Court denied her and an abortion with a with
a fetus that was unviable. You know, now it is
it is uh, the governors have now the governor has
now said that it is okay for law enforcement to
(16:38):
arrest migrants or or those rather that they suspect of
being migrants. And so when we see these things taking place,
and then I want to add on top of that,
Donald Trump uh most recently saying that he's going to
be a dictator on day one. Uh most recently saying that,
(17:00):
you know, we're going to take back the White House
in twenty twenty four and then will negotiate afterwards because
I'm owed, you know, years, and then I will weaponize
and be your retribution. Do you think that people understand
the stakes that we are that we are up against
(17:21):
that democracy held and is holding on by a thread
right now. But that if if a Donald Trump or
any frankly body word to take on outside of a
Democrat this election in twenty twenty four, that we don't
have the backstops anymore. We don't have the fall safes
(17:46):
or the guard rails. Do people? Do you feel like
people recognize what is at stake?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
We have to hope they do. I mean, look, democracy
did hold in many ways because of the work that
people like you and your community and the listeners that
tune into your show, because of the work that legal
organizations and other advocates did in the prior administration. But
people lost out there. I mean, it held on, but
(18:15):
as you said, it held on by a thread. And
we have a number of communities in this country that
were worse off after the prior administration, after their prior
administration's assault on democracy. And we have a number of
communities in this country that are worse off now that
we have extremist legal organizations seeking to misuse our courts
to roll back the rights of people, to deprive people
(18:36):
of basic human rights and civil rights. And so I
think they're really high stakes and One of the things
we're focused on at Democracy Forward is making sure that
people know that we all have a role to play here.
I saw a depiction the other day of a picture
that had a single individual saying, you know, I'm a
single individual, what am I supposed to do here? And
(18:59):
then there was one that six million. You know, we're
all single individuals, and it's our collective power in coming
together that can really be important in this time in
demanding that our government work for all people, that the
people that are entrusted to represent us, the people that
are entrusted to be interpreting our constitution and our laws
in our courts, that they believe in democracy and want
(19:22):
to move it forward. A lot of what we're doing
at Democracy Forward as we look to twenty twenty four
is not only fighting the fights of today. And by
the way, we were representing the nation's medical community in
the Texas Supreme Court last weekend in Kate Cox's case,
which is a really tragic case and shows you what's
at stake here for so many families and people across
(19:43):
the country. But we're going to take on those fights,
but we're also looking at what needs to be done
when you have public reports coming out on an almost
weekly basis about quote, shadow governments that are being formed
to undermine the independence of our civil so servius, to
roll back lawful policies that help protect people, to politicize
(20:06):
our institutions, and so there's a lot of that work
that needs to be happening to really understand the stakes
and communicate about that. And so I'm really happy that
you're having me on today for us to have this conversation,
but also that your listeners, hopefully as they're reflecting on
the end of twenty twenty three in the beginning of
twenty four, that we can really look together ahead and
(20:27):
see what we need to do, because it is the
responsibility of all of us to be informed to show up.
But think about individual people in Ohio might not have
thought they had the power, and they have won a
right for people in that state that many thought was
impossible because of the collective power that people can build.
So I do believe that if we come together when
(20:47):
we fight, we know that democracy will win. That people
have to have the fight in them.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
What are you at democracy forward? Paying attention to what
is on your radar twenty twenty four in terms of
legal cases that you are on that you are going
to be defending, like what is what's on your radar?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Well at the Supreme Court, of course, there are a
number of cases that the Court is hearing this term
that could really radically alter the way that government functions
and its ability to function for people in our country.
There are a variety of cases in a category of
law called administrative law, which is really how federal agencies
(21:33):
are able to implement policies that Congress passes to help people,
and the extremists and far right legal movements are seeking
to undermine the ability of government to work for people.
So we're weighing in and a lot of those cases
on behalf of small businesses, and on behalf of scholars,
and on behalf of many folks that have a stake,
and we'll be watching those a lot. Of course, given
(21:54):
the stakes of the twenty twenty four election, We'll be
watching activity and communities throughout the country where there will
be efforts to suppress votes, efforts to try to keep
people from participating in the political process, and where there
is a need, you will find us there. You will
find us supporting organizations that will be there. And then
of course We represent the generic manufacturer of mythipristom, which
(22:17):
is the abortion pill, and it's the majority of the market,
and the Supreme Court just last week has agreed to
hear to get again here a case it is a
resident of Texas, and so we'll be on the front
lines of that fight as well as fighting against state
laws that are seeking to override the federal government's authority
(22:38):
to regulate medication abortion and make it available to all people.
You know, there's no shortage of work in twenty twenty four,
but I think really focusing on how we make sure
that people are empowered to participate in their government, to
show up, to show up for their communities, to show
up for democracy. We're going to be really focused on that.
(22:59):
And then we're also going to folks us on a
lot of these legal fights.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
And last question for you. You know you mentioned that
you know the individual you know, recognizing that they have power,
and as a collective we have more powered them. We know,
what can people that are listening to this show do?
How can they get involved with democracy forward? How can
they offer support? Please?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Well, first of all, let me say, I think if
if we in twenty twenty four, if every day we
woke up, or maybe not even every day, once a week,
we ask that question of ourselves and of our families
and of our communities. I think democracy would be in
a great place at the end of next year, and
so I think one is we've got to ask that question,
what can we do for us? Specifically, I would encourage
(23:49):
our listeners to go to Democracyforward dot org, to sign
up to get our newsletter, to follow us on social media.
We have a lot of opportunities for people to get involved.
We will be around the country this year. We're going
to be in Tennessee doing some work. We're going to
be in Texas, We'll be at south By Southwest. You know,
we'll be around the country. We'd love to connect with
you when we're in your community. But also you can
(24:10):
get in touch with us through our work and stay
informed about these fights, and we really need that in
the days ahead. But even more broadly, I think people
need to reflect on democracy is about all of us,
and it's about a way of life, and it's about
an affirmation that it's people need to be able to
pursue their happiness and to pursue their dreams here in
a country, and we need a country that creates the
(24:32):
conditions for that. And so whether you go and get
a public library card and start supporting your public library,
whether you start supporting a local community effort that's seeking
to inform people about efforts, whether you go buy a
subscription to a reputable news source and pay for some
of that content that's created that's fighting misinformation. I think
(24:53):
there's a lot of things we can do in our
daily lives. You don't have to be a lawyer, you
don't have to consider yourself an advocate an activist. There's
so much that we can do. We certainly need to
vote and make a plan and get our friends to
make a plan, but there's a lot that we can
do in our daily lives, from supporting our libraries to
supporting our communities, showing up at a school board meeting
and listening. I mean, we have extreamists that are infiltrating
(25:16):
these school board meetings and we're on the front lines
with parents and teachers all across the country. That's another
thing we're going to be doing in twenty twenty four
on these fights. You know, show up, even if you
don't have a kid in the school, this is your
community and this is what's happening, and so I think
that there's a real power in that. We've seen that
throughout this country's history, we have seen times of course,
(25:38):
the democracy has not delivered for people, for all people
in this country because of systems and structures that we're
trying to keep democracy from many folks, from women, from
people of color, from people with low incomes, from folks
that look different or spoke a different language, or worship differently.
And so these are fights that this country has been
through before, but they're high stakes and we've got to
(26:01):
pay attention. So I would just encourage your listeners to
ask that question every week, and then, of course, very simply,
you can go to democracyforward dot org and if you
sign up, you'll at least get a piece of mail
once a week with a lot of great ways that
you can get involved.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Sky Perryman, thank you so much for the work that
you are doing over at Democracy Forward, and you know,
for amplifying the issues for fighting on behalf of all
of us and on democracy. We appreciate you and hope
to have more conversations with you and the coming year.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Well, yes, and thank you for everything that you do,
and thanks to your community. I hope everyone has a
good holiday and a RESTful and happy new Year. And
we've got a lot of work ahead of us.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yes we do, Yes we do appreciate you. That is
it for me today, dear friends on Woke a f
as always Power to the people and to all the people. Power,
Get woke and stay
Host
Danielle Moodie
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