April 9, 2020 • 42 mins
Katy, Robert and Cody are joined by Eva Cantor to discuss how around the country, Christofascists have started tightening screws and enacting their long-simmering plan to eliminate transgender people. Also, our guest Eva has a very cute cat!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Worst Year Ever, a production of I Heart
Radio Get Everything. So don't don't it's still a horrible year, horrible, horrible,
(00:26):
horrible year. Him Robert, Hi, Robert, I'm Katie. Welcome to
the Horrible Year Show. This is the show about bad years,
and this year we're talking about, which not a great year.
That's all I've got to say. Yeah, is that it? Yep? Yep? Alright, guys,
(00:51):
good episode. Yeah, Okay, uh no, that's a lie. Like
everything I say, except for the stuff I'm about to say,
because today we're going to talk about out something very important, UM,
which is how the COVID nineteen epidemic is being used
as an excuse by the GOP to push laws criminalizing
the existence of transgender people. Um. A nice light topic
(01:13):
for a nice light week, well for a nice light year,
for a nice light year. So I should probably introduce
the fourth voice that people may have heard a couple
of times, Our our guest for today, Eva cant or
how you doing Eva? Um, you know, I'm having a
very cool times like everybody else. Uh, there's some stuff
(01:35):
going on in the in the news I've heard about.
I'm not watching it anymore of you know it's all cool.
You aren't good for you. Yeah, I've tried to tune out.
It's hard to tune it out. I'm I'm impressed by it,
but you gotta. I think all you can do anymore
is you know you said aside about like an hour
day to catch up and go like, okay, that's that's
my budget. I'm good. And then after that you just
kind of if you've seen one news program, you'll you'll coverage,
(01:58):
you'll see the next. I was not going to be
that much difference. I have specifically avoided having a TV
that can deliver me the news. Um, and I think
that we would all do well. You know how Elvis
shot is TV because you got angry at the news.
What if we did that for each other? Yeah, if
we all shot each other's TVs. You pick up any
(02:19):
kind of weapon and you to break into a stranger's
home and damage their television, that would violate our six
ft Oh yeah, that's the only reason, the only reason
I wouldn't do that. When all of this is over,
I swear to you, I will come and I will
shoot your TVs. We'll all be shooting each other's TV.
(02:41):
I mean, the key is to just aim at a
TV but yeah, you want to have you. Thank you
for joining us. Sorry for that terrible introduction where I
know it's better than any of what I've done on
my own, I think. Um, yeah, if you know me
on Twitter, I'm sorry. That's that's your mistake, not mine.
I am. It's not a mistake. No, no one should
(03:03):
be on Twitter. It's yeah, we're we're all trapped there.
Um I saw I think you know it's making fun
of it. Oh, it's the blue Hell site. And you know,
because if you post there too much. The thing about
Hell is you can't leave. That's why it's hell. But yeah,
I'm a member of the Social Strivel Association's Central Committee,
which is not as scary as it sounds. Um, you know,
(03:27):
I promise. Uh, I'm a transgender person and a lot
of other things. Uh, just going going through the motions
right now, I'm probably a bunch of thing isn't forgetting,
but you know I'm here. So yeah, what I enjoyed
about your Twitter presence is that you're one of the
only people I know who has a functioning understanding of
(03:47):
how stocks work. You know, you know what stocks are. Um,
so this is a little off topic, but what are they? Oh, God,
like seriously, because I can tell you no, no, no,
I was okay, okay, can I can I do a
(04:09):
quick callback like super fast? Fellow person from the DFW area,
I listened to your Mark Cuban episode, and um, as
you know, a proud person from the from the df
W area, I have spent much of my life proudly
just loathing Mark Cuban. Um and you know, as as
a billionaire, you know, still sucks. But but I now
have to like hate him less than Jerry Jones, which
(04:29):
just oh that's a bitter pill. That's the worst. Yeah,
I mean Jerry Jerry Jones is pretty outwardly offensive loads yea,
everything about him you can just on every level, even
if you didn't have the money, could still hate him.
Where it's like Mark Cuban, like, well, he said some
things that aren't like the worst thing I've ever heard.
So I guess the thing that's interesting about Mark Cuban
(04:51):
is that there are a lot of ways where the
goal is similar to what what I'd say that we
all believe in. It's just his mean of getting there
that I find. Philosophical difference of opinion. I suppose, but
at least you're not his worldviews. Yeah, and the thing
that he is, but like the other things that he's
(05:14):
he's useful in a way that I don't want to
say out loud because of reasons. But you know, it's
not Jerry Jones. And that's the thing that I'm not
able to say before. Yeah, so let's I had to
google Jerry Jones. I'll be honest. He sounds like he sucks.
(05:35):
You can, broadly, I think, define the groups of people
that are are trying to kill us all into two groups,
and it's it's the kinds of people who like do
it um as a byproduct of doing other things. And
there's the kind of people who are really just hunkering
down to murder people. Um. And today we're going to
talk about the hunkered down I want to murder people um,
(05:56):
because that that is like the overwhelming feeling I'm in
right now from a lot of the legislation being pushed
in state houses around the United States aimed at like
transgender people. And this this kicked off before um, the
coronavirus epidemic, but they've they've certainly taken advantage of it.
There was an interesting article that came out like back
(06:20):
in February at the top of this year. That was
like laying out all of the different state bills and
stuff that the Republicans were pushing this year. And it's
a Washington Post article. I think I'm just gonna quote
like the top of it right now because it lays
out things pretty well. Uh, last week's O and this
is like February. Last week, South Dakota's Republican House passed
(06:41):
a bill banning doctors from treating young people under age
sixteen with hormones or gender confirming surgeries, making doing so
punishable with up to a year and a two thousand
dollar fine. Well, this week the bill failed to pass
out of its state Senate committee. The full state Senate
could still decide to take it up. Meanwhile, still similar
proposals have been fired filed in Colorado, Florida, Idaho, oak Homa, Missouri,
and South Carolina, and lawmakers in Kentucky, Georgia, and Texas
(07:04):
say they are also planning to file such bills. So yeah,
it's like there's a clampdown that was planned at the
start of the year, even before the coronavirus hit um
And this has been so generally, and at least in
the reading I've done, most of it seems to suggest
that this really got started after two fifteen. And it's
(07:24):
because of um oh, Bridge Fell versus Hodges, which is
like the Supreme Court case that that opened legal marriage
rights to same sex couples across the country. So after
the religious right lost that battle, they started increasingly targeting
transgender people like that was the next fight they picked
is we've we've at least temporarily lost this fight to
(07:44):
make it illegal for gay people to get married. Um,
it's time to funk up some trans folks. Uh. And
I found an analysis on what the Washington Post that
analyzed seventy one bills introduced in state legislatures or that
there were that which revealed there were seventy one bills
introduced in state legislature is between January one, twos and
fourteen and February of tis and eighteen then included the
word transgender. And this was like a massive spike. The
(08:08):
there were like two bills in two thousand fourteen that
used the word transgender, nine in two thousand fifteen, two
and two thousand sixteen, and two thousand seventeen and fifteen
and two thousand eighteen, UM. So yeah, that's kind of
like the background of this is there was this surge
that started five years ago and pushing against trans rights,
and now that, uh, the coronavirus epidemic has kind of
(08:31):
occupied everyone's mind. It's being used as an excuse to
push a lot of this stuff through. The most recent
example would be the state of Idaho, which just um
introduced HB five hundred UM and pushed it up to
the governor. And the bill bands trans girls and women
from high school and college women's sports, as well as
HP five oh nine, which bands gender changes on birth
certificates issued in the state. Uh. And the deadline for
(08:53):
signing or vetoing the bills was March thirty one, which
happened to be International trans Day of Visibility, and the
governor signed up both on the law. So like that's
that's kind of the start of what we're going to see,
but it's it's going to accelerate over the next couple
of months as this continues coronavirus continues to dominate. And anyway,
that's my introductor, Ychpiel. That's a that was yeah, um yeah,
(09:17):
and I think I think that's like at the core
of it too is um what we see internationally is
you have, uh, you know, this realization that you know,
certain parts of the culture war have been lost. They
you know, gay people, Hey, they exist. You can't you know,
get rid of them. So you know Ellen's got a
(09:38):
TV show. Oh well, too bad. Um, So before you know,
some some popular transgender person has a TV show, we
better make sure that we make being transgender just such
a hell to exist. They all go in the closet
and whatever. Um, So we're going to do that as
quickly and harshly as possible. And I think a thing
(10:01):
that um, a lot of people you know, really should
keep in mind and and tend to forget, is that,
you know, this isn't happening, you know, spur of the moment.
There are these bills, there are these plans, There are
these ideas that they're all sitting in a drawer somewhere there.
There are are plans to this, and it's like what
happens in the UK. There's international cooperation on these things.
(10:24):
There are you know, think tanks about this stuff. These
people all talk to each other and you know, I
mean just saying out wow, it sounds conspiratoral like, oh,
there's this international community of of you know, people who
sit around all day thinking about other people's genitals. But like, yeah, um,
that's what it is, and and that's what it is
(10:46):
to be in this community is you have to think, like, hey,
there's people who just think NonStop about me being trans,
about people who I don't know being trans, because I
would like to think about literally anything else. I'd love
to like, man, just down some hormone and he left
the funk alone. What that'd be really cool and just
not think about it for a day. Yeah, it's really
good that you point out the international dimension to this,
(11:08):
because it is like it is international. Hungary just sought. So.
The big news last week was that Hungary's President uh
Orban Victor Orban Um basically had laws introduced that's kind
of his equivalent of a Reichstag fire declaration, which is
what gave Hitler dictatorial power. He has taken permanent, long
term power UM and is now president forever at decree
(11:31):
basically UM as a result of the coronavirus epidemic. And
that that made the news and I think a lot
of people have heard that, but at the exact same time,
or Bon introduced a series of bills that, among other things,
stipulates that gender should be defined as biological sex based
on primary sex characteristics and chromosomes. Uh. It records people
sex at birth in the civil registry and makes it
(11:51):
impossible for anyone to change their legally recognized gender. This
is like the first thing or Bon felt important to
do after after getting the dictate or card passed to him. Yeah,
and it's it's I mean kind of like with with
all of this, like you know, if you're gay, if
you're if you're sexual, really, if you're if you're straight,
(12:12):
and just not like the group that's going to do
great when things turn pair shapes, like hey, um, you
know it might be trans people, it might be whatever group. Um,
but it's it's gonna come your way. And if you
can't feel some way about it because it's it's someone else,
feel some way about it, because like it's gonna be
(12:33):
you eventually, and it's gonna be some guy like Victor
Urban taking power and now you live in a fascist heelescape.
Like that's that's how authoritarianism works. Um is pointing at
a group and saying, well, they're not enough, Like you.
So we're just gonna go ahead and say they don't exist.
Don't worry about it. It won't be you next week.
It will yeah, I mean it'll take three or four
(12:56):
weeks for someone like me. So I feel actually pretty
good mean about it. You can still buy guns, so
you're fine with that poem? Uh, first they came for
them and then they stopped. It was fine. Yeah, Cody,
that's the entirety of the famous poem about fascism, and
it's totally cool. Yeah, yeah, it's totally cool. Is the
(13:18):
title of There was Less Traffic? So actually things worked
out for me, um the autobon, So actually it was
totally awesome. Yeah. All right, that's enough Hitler talk for
a while. This isn't behind no more fun jokes, No
more fun Hitler jokes. I know, I know that your
(13:39):
favorite part, except for when Cody and I come up
with nicknames for ourselves. I don't know. This is Uh,
it's one of those things. I feel like there's a
degree to which I don't know how much more I
should say, because it's a matter of like, this is
a horribly fucked up situation and it's going to get
worse unless people do something, please do something. Um, so
(14:01):
I guess one of the questions is like, would what
can we do while we're all sitting here at home,
um being like, oh no, another horrible thing is happening
an answer, yeah, yeah, answer this question authoritatively for everyone
right now on the spot. Please. This is I'm just
(14:23):
I'm just having like this nightmares flashbacks when um, Michael
Bloomberg said he met with leaders of the trans community,
and all of us on Twitter were like, what when
do we have that vote? Did you guys vote on
the leaders? Because I didn't, Yeah, I missed that meeting. Actually,
um yeah, I think I think I called and sick
for that when wey have had like a proxy or something, Um,
(14:43):
we do have a leader? Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Yeah my card was in the mail or something. I
don't know. But yeah, So it's tricky because, like especially now,
I mean, you know, obviously there can only be one
problem at a time and nothing, no, no too bad
things ever happened at once. So it's it's really hard
(15:04):
for when a community says, I mean, I mean one
of the things that that we've seen because you know, um,
transpobs in in the UK are incredibly well organized um
and and they have a huge presence online um and
they just well we'll call themselves like hey, we're words
that basically just mean biggott um and and they have
an amazing ability to just say like, hey, you know,
(15:26):
you may think you're being oppressed, but like there's a
pandemic on you know, shut up. And I think when
you see members of any group and this, you know
that transgider people are no different. Say something terrible is happening.
Here's here's what it is. Don't The worst thing you
can do is say, hey, COVID nineteen is happening. Hey,
(15:50):
the hospitals are full of whatever we can wait. Well, no,
like use your fore brain and think about it for
a second and realize that anytime there's a crisis, someone
in power is going to use it to get more power.
And you know they're going to not use it on
you if you're doing okay. They're going to use it
on people who have the least power. So maybe listen
(16:12):
to those people, like, yeah, like that's if if you're
if you're someone who's in that position, who has that comfort.
I don't want to use the P word because I
know people get kind of you know, annoyed when you
say privilege, but that's what it is. Um. You have
to you have to listen when people say like, hey,
this bad thing is happening. It's it is what it is,
because I mean, the unfortunate reality is is like it is.
(16:35):
It is very hard to be part of a small
group of people who are who are politically disadvantaged. You know,
like you were mentioning that, hey, they're there. There are
are people in states saying that you know in all
these different states, you know, the people under a certain
age you know can't get X y Z transition and
saying oh, you can't medically transition if you're under whatever age. Well,
the thing is is is it? You know, ten year
olds aren't medically transitioning. That's not happening. Like they're getting therapy.
(17:00):
They're allowed to explore those feelings. They're allowed to like
lead healthy lives. And I'll tell you something. If I
was ten years old or you know, this is getting
a little personal, but that was around the age I
started like going like, hey, I think there might be
something going on here. And if I was in a
society where like I wouldn't be. I grew up in
rural Texas frankly drug behind to pick up because I mean,
(17:24):
let's let's let's make it really explicit. That's not like,
that's not like a euphemism. That was one of the
defining things that happened when both you and I were
children in Texas. Uh, there was there's a young gay
kid um not too far from more you and I
grew up who I think probably even you were about fourteen. Um.
That happened to get where but yeah, and that was
that was I'm not gonna lie. It was one of
the things that made me realize, oh, I need to
(17:45):
be in the closet until I die um because I
realized that's that's going to happen to me. And if
I was in a society where it was acceptable to
even think about being trans um, I would probably be
a much happier, healthier person. And there are a lot
of people who would be in the exact same position.
And if you're someone who is outside of that community.
(18:08):
As silly as the word community is, the very bait
most basically can do is listen and you're going to
hear some frustration, You're gonna hear some anger because it's
a frustrating and and anger inducing time. Um, but just
remember it's it's not directed at you, you know, it's
it's directed at how much everything sucks right now. Yeah,
and it's so I mean, I know we even talking
(18:31):
about this now for a few minutes, but it's um
with everything going on, COVID nineteen, all of this horrific
news coming down the pipeline, it's just very easy for
stuff that is immediately important in so many people's lives, um,
for that to get lost in the shuffle and so listening. Yeah,
(18:54):
that is a frustrating answer. It's also the most important answer.
It's paying attention. It's not just like not clicking on
that article you see because you're at if you have
the bandwidth. I know everyone's going through a lot right now,
but like saying like, yes, stop and pay attention to this.
Imagine take how hard this is for you, and then
imagine if you had even less going on, like even
(19:16):
less power, you know, even more marginalized. And empathy is
just so important right now, and it's we lose it
so fast, Yeah, especially when like we're uh suffering to
like it's exactly, it gets harder for some people, I
think to focus on anything else that's wrong when like
they're focused on trying I don't know, lockdown toilet paper
(19:38):
or whatever. But if we don't want things to get worse,
part of it starts with, um, you know, protecting the whole.
The whole like community, And I mean that in terms of,
like everyone who lives around you and who you're intertwined
with is part of that community. And like if a
segment of that community is being targeted, like you were
(19:59):
saying earlier, even it's going to come on you eventually.
Like this, this ship spreads in the same way if
I can, I mean can go on a rant about
Syria every day of the week, but like you ignore
one group of people and horrible things happened to them,
and then horrible things start happening everywhere. It's, um, just
the way the world works. You horrible things happen uh
(20:20):
to certain people. Then that tells people that did the
thing that it's okay to make horrible things happen because
they can get away with it and they're all friends.
All the horrible people are friends, good friends in their community. Yeah,
all right, we need to take a real quick ad
break speak listen to these COMMI listen to these speaking
(20:45):
of the worst people in history. They all need access
to flying robots that can launch missiles full of swords
at cars filled with dissidences. And if you need something
like that, the fine people at Raytheon have got your back.
I honestly think my transition was just fine. Together, everything down,
(21:14):
We're back, and I feel like I appreciate all of you,
and also the good people at Raytheon. M mostly people
at Raytheon yeah hashtag yeah one social distance and folks
I don't live too far from them. I'm gonna I'm
gonna go. I mean, actually, Robert, do you want me
(21:34):
to go over to Raytheon and be like, hey, actually
great hop that big wrought iron Yeah what I One
thing I hear about Raytheon is that they're parking lot
security isn't good. Oh yeah, no, it's I'm gonna take
a big cookie bouquet and they're gonna be like, you
know what, we were going to just perforate you, but
(21:55):
now that I will bet there. They've got to be
registered like an essential business, right like the US government
isn't isn't turning down missile from home? Yeah? Yeah right now?
Oh my god, like staff, like the cooks and the
(22:18):
maids and stuff. Do you think those are essential services? Yeah, no,
they're They're all still coming into work. Yeah, I don't know.
I wonder how that's working. I am mostly curious though
about yeah zoom bombing a defense distributor as they Yeah,
that could be a lot of fun. I just I
(22:39):
just feel bad for whatever essential workers making McDonald's runs
for the presidente yeah, uh yeah. And that's one of
the things that, um, I'm interested in terms of this
is like I feel like one of the reasons things
haven't been even worse than they are is just the
(23:00):
fact that I don't know, they've been pretty bad. Like
I like, I keep going back and forth, like as
to like, is Trump worse than a baseline Republican would
have been because a baseline Republican or not a baseline
like an actual like an actual like religious conservative? Like
is he worse because those people like George W. Bush
(23:22):
they tend to at least have a little bit of
fear of electoral consequences. And Trump just kinda he just
he draws so much attention unto himself that I think
other fucked up things that happen have get less attention.
That's what I'm getting at, And so I wonder if
like he's been able to get away with even more
damaging bigoted ship even though I don't think he's personally
(23:43):
all that motivated by hatred of LGBT people. I think
he's just doesn't. Yeah, that's why they love him so much,
because everything slips off him so easily, and he does
consume the attention, and so, yeah, all these things can
happen under the radar because everyone's talking about co fefe
or whatever. He believes that hard and very much. But
(24:07):
if it benefits him to take up a cause of
some sort, you know, yeah, yeah, I think it's ego
and it's yeah they use Yeah. I think his actual
personal level of bigot Tree is like seventies bigot Tree,
where he holds like all of the basic attitudes about
different different groups of people that were on TV in
(24:30):
the seventies. Forgive the comparison. It's spun style racism. Yeah,
he's just like your crappy uncle, Like he's just an
old man who's just you know, oh, hey, that's weird.
I don't get it, Like, yeah, you know, oh so
that's what you're doing, Okay, weird, and I think like
if he was surrounded by people who were similarly kind
(24:50):
of whatever about everything, he would not be like an
active bigot. Yeah. I don't think he's like a bigot
in the way that like his you know, Klansman awful
that was. He's certainly not like a full blown Nazi
like um, thank god he's with a number vice president
somehow cool Um Biden. He's he's not like a Christian extremist, Yeah,
(25:11):
he's not. He's not a full blown diminionist. He's not
like you know, going to bathe the country and the
cleansing blood of you know, Lord God Christ or anything,
and like, you know, yeah, I don't think. I don't
think he wants to like open up death camps necessarily, um,
which just other kinds of camp. He would, he would
at least he would do all these things if the
(25:32):
right group of people convinced them to, which is pretty easy.
And yeah, this is what's happening. Yeah, on his own,
the only death camps he'll set up are ones that
are more or less where the death is a byproduct
of the other horrible ship he's trying to do. And
the fact that he's like a buffoonish, incompetent dullard who
can't anything right because he manufactures death camps, not always intentionally,
(25:54):
like about half the time, it's just because he was
making some other kind of camp that's he's made, which
bad we shouldn't have present section. Yeah, there's there's there's
no real I guess direction to this other than us
like stumbling through. So let's let's this is nice. Let's
(26:14):
talk about, um, what it is like the organization you
you represent as the Socialist Rifle Association, which I talked
about a couple of times on a number of my podcasts. Um,
I'm kind of curious what you see is sort of
the intersection of of your interest in uh self defense
and community self defense and what we're seeing right now
(26:35):
out of the administration in terms of like bigoted policies.
So um, you know, uh boy, that's asked me a
lot of easy questions. Uma, So you know one I
will always say, you know, the s r A is
very complex and multifaceted organization because you have like you know,
I'm down the DFW area and you know our chapter
(26:57):
here is, Um, I'm going to get a lot of
bull if I I don't say this very smartly. Um,
you know, we're we're a very um you know, if
if you're a leftist, you're gonna know what this means.
So I apologize to people who don't know all the lingo.
You know, we're a very lib left you know, anarchist
shaped you know kind of group. We're not all that.
You know, We've got more people who are very state heavy,
who love their more structural stuff. Sure, great, cool whatever,
(27:20):
And then you have other places where it's more you know,
oh they love their marks, they love their little round glasses. Um,
I'm giving people ship. Um you know, sure, But like
we're a very diverse organization ideologically, we're also a very
diverse organization. Um you in terms of identity, We've got
a lot of cists people. We've got a lot of
trans people, have a lot of straight gay, you know,
lesbian this that another thing kind of folks and um,
(27:41):
you know, one of the things that I like about
us is that I think, on on a root level,
everybody in the s A understands the importance of community
to defense and um, you know, intercommunalism and the idea
that like it's not enough to you know, just be
able to if someone comes on your door, you can
you can get him with your gun, because that's some
like you know, libertarian soldier of fortune crap, like that's
(28:05):
that's goofy, that's that's also you know, dangerous. You're gonna
yourself that Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I've had some
I've had some quarrels with a couple of FedEx guys.
You know, then there's the mail man. But as a
general rule, yeah, I wouldn't think that as a reasonable
primary reason to own arms. And like that's one part
(28:25):
of it worries me is a lot about a lot
of the people asking me for gun advice, is that,
like they're clearly worried about like protecting their home with
a thing that they're just gonna buy because it's a
totem against fear um. And I'm very hesitant to advise
people to to to buy fear totems. Being a Texan,
I grew up around guns. I I you know, they're
(28:46):
just a thing that you can have, and it's like
it's like a kitchen knife on the counter. The thing
on its own is not that dangerous, and the hands
of someone who doesn't know how to wield one, they're
gonna cut your fingers off. And I know, like if
you're from somewhere else, if you have different view of
things that, yeah, well you know sure, I'm not gonna whatever. UM.
And in the s r A, you know, we have
(29:06):
a very geographically and culturally diverse group of people who
you know, don't have who have different levels of comfort
with that. And in terms of community defense, UM, we're
much more uniform in that. You know, it is up
to all of us to take care of all of us,
and it is up to all of us to make
sure that you know, we don't turn towards bigotry, We
don't turn towards you know. Hey, UM, you know, my
(29:30):
ability to feel safe is more important than your actual safety. UM,
my feeling of autonomy is more important than your personhood.
And UM, you know, for whatever disagreements we might have
as members for UM, whatever ideological differences we have, I
(29:50):
want to I hope I believe that is something that
is UM that unites us all as as members in
the s r A UM, and I hope it continue
us too, because I will say, and this is maybe
a little inside baseball, but maybe our president and vice
president hopefully won't be mad at me for saying, um
that while while this has been going on, um, you know,
(30:11):
everything with COVID nineteen and the quarantine and the current
you know, political moment um. I will say, our our
our membership has been going up. Are are You can
look at our Twitter. Our follower numbers have been going
up a lot. Interesting, The ray has been going up
a lot. People are worried and they're reaching out to
to the left. And I'm sure, and I'll tell you now,
(30:31):
I'm sure that the n A can say the same.
I'm sure the INTERA is like, oh man, people are
super interesting guns. I will be really curious. I haven't
actually looked at the INN. If the INTERA has posted
new membership numbers, I'm wondering. I feel like I've lived
through a lot of gun buying panics, as I know
you have. Eva. I remember the first big one of
(30:52):
my life was in two thousand eight, two tho nine,
when President Obama was elected and then sworn in because
of I shouldn't need to say a bunch of sists
were scared that a black guy was president and in
the world was ending um and then most of the
gun buying panics that have happened over the years since then,
We're like, there's a big one after um Adam Lanza
shot up that the Sandy Hook Elementary School because people
(31:15):
were scared of a gun band. Um they tend to
spike after really big massacres, or they didn't after the
Vegas shooting, which is this is getting like it's weird. UM.
There's some suspicion as to why, but UM, as a
general rule, it's either racism or fear of liberals that
sparks UM gun runs. This is the first gun run
(31:38):
I've seen that wasn't sparked by that, And I wonder
if we're not seeing a larger chunk of this one
being driven by people who are are liberals, are on
the left, as opposed to um UM being driven primarily
by like frightened conservatives. Like I'm very curious as to
how many of those gun buyers actually got in our
(31:58):
A memberships and how many of them were people who
just it's it's both a good and a bad thing.
I guess, yeah, I do wonder, and I actually think
it Okay, So you mentioned the stocking earlier. I'm gonna
actually kind of look at it from like a almost
an economic standpoint, because like if you're sending you know,
because I look at because what gets me is the
ammunition side of it, because you cannot find like five, five,
(32:21):
six of all things, which is stupidly common, right, it's
the bullet that goes in an A R fifteen. Yeah,
as a general m DESI general really a um. And
you know if you're in Texas, that's you need even
this stuff. It's everywhere, um, and you can't. They sold
fifteen thousand round buckets for three grand when I was
back there, and and for it to be just missing,
(32:43):
that means there are people buying it in places that
normally it's not getting bought, Like there there's a demand
shock for what's I mean, I think you guys talked
about demand shock in the show before, so I can
just say that word now. It's fine, um, but there's
there's people buying it in places and amounts that normally
there's just not a demand for it, which yees to
me implies that like there's now a demographic shift and
who's buying this stuff, which on some level is like
(33:03):
kind of I guess worrying because it's like, yeah, there's
there's probably more just loose ammunition in this country per
capita than there's been just the Revolutionary War. I have
a bunch of it on my desk. Yeah, I mean
just I mean that that's the thought that like, I
really can't put a feeling to um, and it's kind
(33:24):
of hard not to, like, I just don't know how
to feel about that, Like it's really Yeah, I'll say
it's a transgender two it sucks. Yeah, it's it's not
a plague. It blows. You mentioned you mentioned the years
of the plague. I'm gonna pour some bev here just quickly.
It blows. Yeah, it's what is um? Uh. This is
(33:48):
is not brought to you by Woodford Reserves of the Bourbons.
It's one of them. Yeah, which brings us back to
our topic of the worst you're ever topic at hand.
And I will say, like that is um and I
think it is related to the trans thing, probably because
you know, if this gets worse and they're people talking like, oh,
(34:08):
we're flattening, flattening the curves, flattening curves, flattening the curves. Um.
You can watch TV. There are people pouring into churches
right now. There are people saying there's no plague there's
no plague. We'll we'll see. Um, we're supposed to be
hitting the peak now and and some places are just
getting started. Yeah. That's the scary thing is it's looking
like sucking. Michigan's probably what twelve days out from their peace. Believable,
(34:33):
Their numbers are already horrible. Whatever happens today, Yeah, there's
there's no telling. Um, we're not we're not going to know.
And if things if things get worse, you know, people
are going to get mad. Hopefully people get mad at
the people in power. Hopefully people get mad at the
people who let them with fingers fucking crossed. Yeah. Yeah,
(34:57):
but if if the people in power needs someone to blame,
if if the churches need someone to blame, they're going
to say, well it's it's you know, it's the people
who bathe. That's what always happens. That's that's how the
song always goes. Yeah, you're referring to the episode of
Behind the Bastards I just did when we talk about
why Jewish people were targeted during the Black Death and
because not as many of them died because they bathed
(35:19):
every week and Christians didn't you know, um, because it
was gross in the past. Yeah, and for what you're
seeing this happen. Yeah, yeah, story today about the you know,
Jewish gatherings and stuff being zoom bombed by people with
(35:39):
anti Semitic messages and yeah trans community already. But yeah,
and that guy. There's just video again today of like
a dude in front of the Chinese consul in Australia
with a bull whip, like shouting race hatred. Um, that's cool, cool,
just like his just like it's cool, hero, just like
(36:03):
just like our buddy Hitler. I shouldn't call him our buddy.
I really gotta I gotta break that. Shouldn't say that
I gotta recalibrate some things after doing the show that
I do, just like just like that one person in
history who also had a bull whip. Yeah, of course
(36:23):
about I don't really have a joke. This is just
a bad thing that's happening. Yeah, So I do think
it's important to like, uh, yeah, there's when when we
talk about stuff like this, it's important to both like, um,
keep in mind like the things that are are specific
to like this individual group that's struggling, whether you're talking
(36:45):
about like racism against Asian Americans or like you know,
anti trans policies being pursued by the government, Like it's
important to talk about how those things are like, how
those trials being faced by those communities are unique. But
I also think like it's important to recognize that the
attacks to both of those communities have the same point
of origin, which is like, and it's not like an individual.
There are individuals that we can look at as as
(37:08):
like inflection points for that, but it's like it's a feeling,
and it's a feeling that has been deliberately cultivated like
a garden in the hearts of millions. Um. And that's
the thing that's going to kill a lot more people
than the coronavirus. And I would say, I would say
a majority of the people who have died of the coronavirus.
There's numbers coming out right now suggesting like se of
(37:29):
the dead and Louisiana are black. Where there's all these
systemic reasons why that's the case. Um. I didn't come
on here to say that the solution to fighting all
of these things as bullets, because I don't think that
it is. But I'm sure open to anyone who has
an idea of like how we how we fix this uh,
should we just can we ban Facebook first? I would
(37:51):
be a good start. Yeah. I mean the bullets aren't
a solution for obviously. I think it's um the comfort,
it's a preparation, preparation. I was one of the people
that reached out to you when this started, Robert, you know,
should we get a handgun? Thankfully I did ask you
when you were like not now, like not the time,
(38:13):
like you know, like you're gonna do this. Don't just
buy a handgun so you have or yeah, yeah, don't
get a fear to yeah, don't be literally an episode
of The Simpsons, Yeah yeah, Hey, Now, Homer developed a
lot of fun uses for his gun that I denticate
to They're great for turning off lights, which we need
(38:37):
to start mushrooms. Thank you, dig up mushrooms, your mushroom life.
I think that's about all we had to talk about
for today. UM So, this has been a fun discussion
about how when the authoritarians in power pushed to marginalize
(38:57):
groups of people based on big tree, it will inevitably
lead to death on an almost unimaginable scale if it
isn't immediately and uh strongly resisted, and there's a variety
of strategies to doing that, which Sophie make a note
that's the title of the episode. Fun you know, like
I said, a nice light topic for a nice like
(39:17):
we in a nice light year. Yeah, yeah, we we
are planning to do some more episodes where we focus
on different communities and areas being affected that you might
not immediately realize, to try to expand awareness and yeah,
get it. We need to be listening, We need to
be paying attention. And the thing you can do, the
(39:38):
most important that you can do, and this is while
you're stuck online, is if you see someone saying, hi,
you know, I'm not not high or whatever, if I'm
a if you're a transgender person who's saying, you know,
something that seems angry, that seems frustrated, don't be put
off by the tone, don't be put off by whateverything.
Listen to what's actually being said, because there's gonna be anger,
there's gonna be frustration, there's gonna be hurt, there's going
(39:59):
to be years of pent up whatever. Trust me, it's
going to be years of it, um, But there's going
to be truth in that experience, and you have to
you have to listen now more than ever because it's
going to get worse. Things are going to get worse,
and we have a reminder. Yeah, it's so easy to
(40:20):
get wrapped up in in everything that we are experiencing
and online there's this veneer like it's we're connected, but
we're anonymous, we're separate. We we are not actually sharing
each other's pain that easily. You know, you have to
just stop and take a step back and not knee
jerk react to things, which is something that I especially
(40:42):
need to do. I mean we all need to. I
don't say that in like a preacher way. I mean
it is a reminder to myself. As Eva stated, things
are going to get worse. And follow us on Twitter? Yes, yeah,
even what's your Twitter handle on Twitter to guarantee that
things get I mean, well, if you're gonna, if you're
(41:04):
if for whatever on godly reason, you're gonna go on Twitter.
Um you can you can find me at Po River
jam Band p O River jam Band on on the
Twitter website, Um, if you want to. And and again
just you know, let's listen to what people have to
say and you know, be there for each other and
(41:25):
you the people who are who are less powerful than
you are going to be there for you. People who
are more profer than you should be there for you.
It's not about social capital, it's not about political capital.
It's just about it's about we've got to be there
for each other because it's it's going to get rough
out there and all we're gonna have is each other.
So do that. Just try to try to be less,
(41:48):
try to be less of what we've been. I guess
so do that? Can we all just take it down
and notch? Yeah? Just just be cool for like ten
and see how that feels. Well, you can see how
we feel on Twitter. I don't know why I keep
bringing this back to plugging our Twitter, but you just
want all of us to be swimming around in that
(42:08):
slop of a Twitter pig pen. You can find none
of us on Twitter, fucking go outside, but also people,
yeah yeah, on Twitter, on Instagram at Worst your pod,
you can follow Katie at Katie Stool. You can follow
Robert at I Right, Okay, you can follow Cody at
(42:30):
dr Mr Cody and you should go washer here. So
Everything I Tried, Worst Year Ever is a production of
I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever
(42:52):
you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Worst Year Ever, a production of I Heart
Radio Get Everything. So don't don't it's still a horrible year, horrible, horrible,
(00:26):
horrible year. Him Robert, Hi, Robert, I'm Katie. Welcome to
the Horrible Year Show. This is the show about bad years,
and this year we're talking about, which not a great year.
That's all I've got to say. Yeah, is that it? Yep? Yep? Alright, guys,
(00:51):
good episode. Yeah, Okay, uh no, that's a lie. Like
everything I say, except for the stuff I'm about to say,
because today we're going to talk about out something very important, UM,
which is how the COVID nineteen epidemic is being used
as an excuse by the GOP to push laws criminalizing
the existence of transgender people. Um. A nice light topic
(01:13):
for a nice light week, well for a nice light year,
for a nice light year. So I should probably introduce
the fourth voice that people may have heard a couple
of times, Our our guest for today, Eva cant or
how you doing Eva? Um, you know, I'm having a
very cool times like everybody else. Uh, there's some stuff
(01:35):
going on in the in the news I've heard about.
I'm not watching it anymore of you know it's all cool.
You aren't good for you. Yeah, I've tried to tune out.
It's hard to tune it out. I'm I'm impressed by it,
but you gotta. I think all you can do anymore
is you know you said aside about like an hour
day to catch up and go like, okay, that's that's
my budget. I'm good. And then after that you just
kind of if you've seen one news program, you'll you'll coverage,
(01:58):
you'll see the next. I was not going to be
that much difference. I have specifically avoided having a TV
that can deliver me the news. Um, and I think
that we would all do well. You know how Elvis
shot is TV because you got angry at the news.
What if we did that for each other? Yeah, if
we all shot each other's TVs. You pick up any
(02:19):
kind of weapon and you to break into a stranger's
home and damage their television, that would violate our six
ft Oh yeah, that's the only reason, the only reason
I wouldn't do that. When all of this is over,
I swear to you, I will come and I will
shoot your TVs. We'll all be shooting each other's TV.
(02:41):
I mean, the key is to just aim at a
TV but yeah, you want to have you. Thank you
for joining us. Sorry for that terrible introduction where I
know it's better than any of what I've done on
my own, I think. Um, yeah, if you know me
on Twitter, I'm sorry. That's that's your mistake, not mine.
I am. It's not a mistake. No, no one should
(03:03):
be on Twitter. It's yeah, we're we're all trapped there.
Um I saw I think you know it's making fun
of it. Oh, it's the blue Hell site. And you know,
because if you post there too much. The thing about
Hell is you can't leave. That's why it's hell. But yeah,
I'm a member of the Social Strivel Association's Central Committee,
which is not as scary as it sounds. Um, you know,
(03:27):
I promise. Uh, I'm a transgender person and a lot
of other things. Uh, just going going through the motions
right now, I'm probably a bunch of thing isn't forgetting,
but you know I'm here. So yeah, what I enjoyed
about your Twitter presence is that you're one of the
only people I know who has a functioning understanding of
(03:47):
how stocks work. You know, you know what stocks are. Um,
so this is a little off topic, but what are they? Oh, God,
like seriously, because I can tell you no, no, no,
I was okay, okay, can I can I do a
(04:09):
quick callback like super fast? Fellow person from the DFW area,
I listened to your Mark Cuban episode, and um, as
you know, a proud person from the from the df
W area, I have spent much of my life proudly
just loathing Mark Cuban. Um and you know, as as
a billionaire, you know, still sucks. But but I now
have to like hate him less than Jerry Jones, which
(04:29):
just oh that's a bitter pill. That's the worst. Yeah,
I mean Jerry Jerry Jones is pretty outwardly offensive loads yea,
everything about him you can just on every level, even
if you didn't have the money, could still hate him.
Where it's like Mark Cuban, like, well, he said some
things that aren't like the worst thing I've ever heard.
So I guess the thing that's interesting about Mark Cuban
(04:51):
is that there are a lot of ways where the
goal is similar to what what I'd say that we
all believe in. It's just his mean of getting there
that I find. Philosophical difference of opinion. I suppose, but
at least you're not his worldviews. Yeah, and the thing
that he is, but like the other things that he's
(05:14):
he's useful in a way that I don't want to
say out loud because of reasons. But you know, it's
not Jerry Jones. And that's the thing that I'm not
able to say before. Yeah, so let's I had to
google Jerry Jones. I'll be honest. He sounds like he sucks.
(05:35):
You can, broadly, I think, define the groups of people
that are are trying to kill us all into two groups,
and it's it's the kinds of people who like do
it um as a byproduct of doing other things. And
there's the kind of people who are really just hunkering
down to murder people. Um. And today we're going to
talk about the hunkered down I want to murder people um,
(05:56):
because that that is like the overwhelming feeling I'm in
right now from a lot of the legislation being pushed
in state houses around the United States aimed at like
transgender people. And this this kicked off before um, the
coronavirus epidemic, but they've they've certainly taken advantage of it.
There was an interesting article that came out like back
(06:20):
in February at the top of this year. That was
like laying out all of the different state bills and
stuff that the Republicans were pushing this year. And it's
a Washington Post article. I think I'm just gonna quote
like the top of it right now because it lays
out things pretty well. Uh, last week's O and this
is like February. Last week, South Dakota's Republican House passed
(06:41):
a bill banning doctors from treating young people under age
sixteen with hormones or gender confirming surgeries, making doing so
punishable with up to a year and a two thousand
dollar fine. Well, this week the bill failed to pass
out of its state Senate committee. The full state Senate
could still decide to take it up. Meanwhile, still similar
proposals have been fired filed in Colorado, Florida, Idaho, oak Homa, Missouri,
and South Carolina, and lawmakers in Kentucky, Georgia, and Texas
(07:04):
say they are also planning to file such bills. So yeah,
it's like there's a clampdown that was planned at the
start of the year, even before the coronavirus hit um
And this has been so generally, and at least in
the reading I've done, most of it seems to suggest
that this really got started after two fifteen. And it's
(07:24):
because of um oh, Bridge Fell versus Hodges, which is
like the Supreme Court case that that opened legal marriage
rights to same sex couples across the country. So after
the religious right lost that battle, they started increasingly targeting
transgender people like that was the next fight they picked
is we've we've at least temporarily lost this fight to
(07:44):
make it illegal for gay people to get married. Um,
it's time to funk up some trans folks. Uh. And
I found an analysis on what the Washington Post that
analyzed seventy one bills introduced in state legislatures or that
there were that which revealed there were seventy one bills
introduced in state legislature is between January one, twos and
fourteen and February of tis and eighteen then included the
word transgender. And this was like a massive spike. The
(08:08):
there were like two bills in two thousand fourteen that
used the word transgender, nine in two thousand fifteen, two
and two thousand sixteen, and two thousand seventeen and fifteen
and two thousand eighteen, UM. So yeah, that's kind of
like the background of this is there was this surge
that started five years ago and pushing against trans rights,
and now that, uh, the coronavirus epidemic has kind of
(08:31):
occupied everyone's mind. It's being used as an excuse to
push a lot of this stuff through. The most recent
example would be the state of Idaho, which just um
introduced HB five hundred UM and pushed it up to
the governor. And the bill bands trans girls and women
from high school and college women's sports, as well as
HP five oh nine, which bands gender changes on birth
certificates issued in the state. Uh. And the deadline for
(08:53):
signing or vetoing the bills was March thirty one, which
happened to be International trans Day of Visibility, and the
governor signed up both on the law. So like that's
that's kind of the start of what we're going to see,
but it's it's going to accelerate over the next couple
of months as this continues coronavirus continues to dominate. And anyway,
that's my introductor, Ychpiel. That's a that was yeah, um yeah,
(09:17):
and I think I think that's like at the core
of it too is um what we see internationally is
you have, uh, you know, this realization that you know,
certain parts of the culture war have been lost. They
you know, gay people, Hey, they exist. You can't you know,
get rid of them. So you know Ellen's got a
(09:38):
TV show. Oh well, too bad. Um, So before you know,
some some popular transgender person has a TV show, we
better make sure that we make being transgender just such
a hell to exist. They all go in the closet
and whatever. Um, So we're going to do that as
quickly and harshly as possible. And I think a thing
(10:01):
that um, a lot of people you know, really should
keep in mind and and tend to forget, is that,
you know, this isn't happening, you know, spur of the moment.
There are these bills, there are these plans, There are
these ideas that they're all sitting in a drawer somewhere there.
There are are plans to this, and it's like what
happens in the UK. There's international cooperation on these things.
(10:24):
There are you know, think tanks about this stuff. These
people all talk to each other and you know, I
mean just saying out wow, it sounds conspiratoral like, oh,
there's this international community of of you know, people who
sit around all day thinking about other people's genitals. But like, yeah, um,
that's what it is, and and that's what it is
(10:46):
to be in this community is you have to think, like, hey,
there's people who just think NonStop about me being trans,
about people who I don't know being trans, because I
would like to think about literally anything else. I'd love
to like, man, just down some hormone and he left
the funk alone. What that'd be really cool and just
not think about it for a day. Yeah, it's really
good that you point out the international dimension to this,
(11:08):
because it is like it is international. Hungary just sought. So.
The big news last week was that Hungary's President uh
Orban Victor Orban Um basically had laws introduced that's kind
of his equivalent of a Reichstag fire declaration, which is
what gave Hitler dictatorial power. He has taken permanent, long
term power UM and is now president forever at decree
(11:31):
basically UM as a result of the coronavirus epidemic. And
that that made the news and I think a lot
of people have heard that, but at the exact same time,
or Bon introduced a series of bills that, among other things,
stipulates that gender should be defined as biological sex based
on primary sex characteristics and chromosomes. Uh. It records people
sex at birth in the civil registry and makes it
(11:51):
impossible for anyone to change their legally recognized gender. This
is like the first thing or Bon felt important to
do after after getting the dictate or card passed to him. Yeah,
and it's it's I mean kind of like with with
all of this, like you know, if you're gay, if
you're if you're sexual, really, if you're if you're straight,
(12:12):
and just not like the group that's going to do
great when things turn pair shapes, like hey, um, you
know it might be trans people, it might be whatever group. Um,
but it's it's gonna come your way. And if you
can't feel some way about it because it's it's someone else,
feel some way about it, because like it's gonna be
(12:33):
you eventually, and it's gonna be some guy like Victor
Urban taking power and now you live in a fascist heelescape.
Like that's that's how authoritarianism works. Um is pointing at
a group and saying, well, they're not enough, Like you.
So we're just gonna go ahead and say they don't exist.
Don't worry about it. It won't be you next week.
It will yeah, I mean it'll take three or four
(12:56):
weeks for someone like me. So I feel actually pretty
good mean about it. You can still buy guns, so
you're fine with that poem? Uh, first they came for
them and then they stopped. It was fine. Yeah, Cody,
that's the entirety of the famous poem about fascism, and
it's totally cool. Yeah, yeah, it's totally cool. Is the
(13:18):
title of There was Less Traffic? So actually things worked
out for me, um the autobon, So actually it was
totally awesome. Yeah. All right, that's enough Hitler talk for
a while. This isn't behind no more fun jokes, No
more fun Hitler jokes. I know, I know that your
(13:39):
favorite part, except for when Cody and I come up
with nicknames for ourselves. I don't know. This is Uh,
it's one of those things. I feel like there's a
degree to which I don't know how much more I
should say, because it's a matter of like, this is
a horribly fucked up situation and it's going to get
worse unless people do something, please do something. Um, so
(14:01):
I guess one of the questions is like, would what
can we do while we're all sitting here at home,
um being like, oh no, another horrible thing is happening
an answer, yeah, yeah, answer this question authoritatively for everyone
right now on the spot. Please. This is I'm just
(14:23):
I'm just having like this nightmares flashbacks when um, Michael
Bloomberg said he met with leaders of the trans community,
and all of us on Twitter were like, what when
do we have that vote? Did you guys vote on
the leaders? Because I didn't, Yeah, I missed that meeting. Actually,
um yeah, I think I think I called and sick
for that when wey have had like a proxy or something, Um,
(14:43):
we do have a leader? Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Yeah my card was in the mail or something. I
don't know. But yeah, So it's tricky because, like especially now,
I mean, you know, obviously there can only be one
problem at a time and nothing, no, no too bad
things ever happened at once. So it's it's really hard
(15:04):
for when a community says, I mean, I mean one
of the things that that we've seen because you know, um,
transpobs in in the UK are incredibly well organized um
and and they have a huge presence online um and
they just well we'll call themselves like hey, we're words
that basically just mean biggott um and and they have
an amazing ability to just say like, hey, you know,
(15:26):
you may think you're being oppressed, but like there's a
pandemic on you know, shut up. And I think when
you see members of any group and this, you know
that transgider people are no different. Say something terrible is happening.
Here's here's what it is. Don't The worst thing you
can do is say, hey, COVID nineteen is happening. Hey,
(15:50):
the hospitals are full of whatever we can wait. Well, no,
like use your fore brain and think about it for
a second and realize that anytime there's a crisis, someone
in power is going to use it to get more power.
And you know they're going to not use it on
you if you're doing okay. They're going to use it
on people who have the least power. So maybe listen
(16:12):
to those people, like, yeah, like that's if if you're
if you're someone who's in that position, who has that comfort.
I don't want to use the P word because I
know people get kind of you know, annoyed when you
say privilege, but that's what it is. Um. You have
to you have to listen when people say like, hey,
this bad thing is happening. It's it is what it is,
because I mean, the unfortunate reality is is like it is.
(16:35):
It is very hard to be part of a small
group of people who are who are politically disadvantaged. You know,
like you were mentioning that, hey, they're there. There are
are people in states saying that you know in all
these different states, you know, the people under a certain
age you know can't get X y Z transition and
saying oh, you can't medically transition if you're under whatever age. Well,
the thing is is is it? You know, ten year
olds aren't medically transitioning. That's not happening. Like they're getting therapy.
(17:00):
They're allowed to explore those feelings. They're allowed to like
lead healthy lives. And I'll tell you something. If I
was ten years old or you know, this is getting
a little personal, but that was around the age I
started like going like, hey, I think there might be
something going on here. And if I was in a
society where like I wouldn't be. I grew up in
rural Texas frankly drug behind to pick up because I mean,
(17:24):
let's let's let's make it really explicit. That's not like,
that's not like a euphemism. That was one of the
defining things that happened when both you and I were
children in Texas. Uh, there was there's a young gay
kid um not too far from more you and I
grew up who I think probably even you were about fourteen. Um.
That happened to get where but yeah, and that was
that was I'm not gonna lie. It was one of
the things that made me realize, oh, I need to
(17:45):
be in the closet until I die um because I
realized that's that's going to happen to me. And if
I was in a society where it was acceptable to
even think about being trans um, I would probably be
a much happier, healthier person. And there are a lot
of people who would be in the exact same position.
And if you're someone who is outside of that community.
(18:08):
As silly as the word community is, the very bait
most basically can do is listen and you're going to
hear some frustration, You're gonna hear some anger because it's
a frustrating and and anger inducing time. Um, but just
remember it's it's not directed at you, you know, it's
it's directed at how much everything sucks right now. Yeah,
and it's so I mean, I know we even talking
(18:31):
about this now for a few minutes, but it's um
with everything going on, COVID nineteen, all of this horrific
news coming down the pipeline, it's just very easy for
stuff that is immediately important in so many people's lives, um,
for that to get lost in the shuffle and so listening. Yeah,
(18:54):
that is a frustrating answer. It's also the most important answer.
It's paying attention. It's not just like not clicking on
that article you see because you're at if you have
the bandwidth. I know everyone's going through a lot right now,
but like saying like, yes, stop and pay attention to this.
Imagine take how hard this is for you, and then
imagine if you had even less going on, like even
(19:16):
less power, you know, even more marginalized. And empathy is
just so important right now, and it's we lose it
so fast, Yeah, especially when like we're uh suffering to
like it's exactly, it gets harder for some people, I
think to focus on anything else that's wrong when like
they're focused on trying I don't know, lockdown toilet paper
(19:38):
or whatever. But if we don't want things to get worse,
part of it starts with, um, you know, protecting the whole.
The whole like community, And I mean that in terms of,
like everyone who lives around you and who you're intertwined
with is part of that community. And like if a
segment of that community is being targeted, like you were
(19:59):
saying earlier, even it's going to come on you eventually.
Like this, this ship spreads in the same way if
I can, I mean can go on a rant about
Syria every day of the week, but like you ignore
one group of people and horrible things happened to them,
and then horrible things start happening everywhere. It's, um, just
the way the world works. You horrible things happen uh
(20:20):
to certain people. Then that tells people that did the
thing that it's okay to make horrible things happen because
they can get away with it and they're all friends.
All the horrible people are friends, good friends in their community. Yeah,
all right, we need to take a real quick ad
break speak listen to these COMMI listen to these speaking
(20:45):
of the worst people in history. They all need access
to flying robots that can launch missiles full of swords
at cars filled with dissidences. And if you need something
like that, the fine people at Raytheon have got your back.
I honestly think my transition was just fine. Together, everything down,
(21:14):
We're back, and I feel like I appreciate all of you,
and also the good people at Raytheon. M mostly people
at Raytheon yeah hashtag yeah one social distance and folks
I don't live too far from them. I'm gonna I'm
gonna go. I mean, actually, Robert, do you want me
(21:34):
to go over to Raytheon and be like, hey, actually
great hop that big wrought iron Yeah what I One
thing I hear about Raytheon is that they're parking lot
security isn't good. Oh yeah, no, it's I'm gonna take
a big cookie bouquet and they're gonna be like, you
know what, we were going to just perforate you, but
(21:55):
now that I will bet there. They've got to be
registered like an essential business, right like the US government
isn't isn't turning down missile from home? Yeah? Yeah right now?
Oh my god, like staff, like the cooks and the
(22:18):
maids and stuff. Do you think those are essential services? Yeah, no,
they're They're all still coming into work. Yeah, I don't know.
I wonder how that's working. I am mostly curious though
about yeah zoom bombing a defense distributor as they Yeah,
that could be a lot of fun. I just I
(22:39):
just feel bad for whatever essential workers making McDonald's runs
for the presidente yeah, uh yeah. And that's one of
the things that, um, I'm interested in terms of this
is like I feel like one of the reasons things
haven't been even worse than they are is just the
(23:00):
fact that I don't know, they've been pretty bad. Like
I like, I keep going back and forth, like as
to like, is Trump worse than a baseline Republican would
have been because a baseline Republican or not a baseline
like an actual like an actual like religious conservative? Like
is he worse because those people like George W. Bush
(23:22):
they tend to at least have a little bit of
fear of electoral consequences. And Trump just kinda he just
he draws so much attention unto himself that I think
other fucked up things that happen have get less attention.
That's what I'm getting at, And so I wonder if
like he's been able to get away with even more
damaging bigoted ship even though I don't think he's personally
(23:43):
all that motivated by hatred of LGBT people. I think
he's just doesn't. Yeah, that's why they love him so much,
because everything slips off him so easily, and he does
consume the attention, and so, yeah, all these things can
happen under the radar because everyone's talking about co fefe
or whatever. He believes that hard and very much. But
(24:07):
if it benefits him to take up a cause of
some sort, you know, yeah, yeah, I think it's ego
and it's yeah they use Yeah. I think his actual
personal level of bigot Tree is like seventies bigot Tree,
where he holds like all of the basic attitudes about
different different groups of people that were on TV in
(24:30):
the seventies. Forgive the comparison. It's spun style racism. Yeah,
he's just like your crappy uncle, Like he's just an
old man who's just you know, oh, hey, that's weird.
I don't get it, Like, yeah, you know, oh so
that's what you're doing, Okay, weird, and I think like
if he was surrounded by people who were similarly kind
(24:50):
of whatever about everything, he would not be like an
active bigot. Yeah. I don't think he's like a bigot
in the way that like his you know, Klansman awful
that was. He's certainly not like a full blown Nazi
like um, thank god he's with a number vice president
somehow cool Um Biden. He's he's not like a Christian extremist, Yeah,
(25:11):
he's not. He's not a full blown diminionist. He's not
like you know, going to bathe the country and the
cleansing blood of you know, Lord God Christ or anything,
and like, you know, yeah, I don't think. I don't
think he wants to like open up death camps necessarily, um,
which just other kinds of camp. He would, he would
at least he would do all these things if the
(25:32):
right group of people convinced them to, which is pretty easy.
And yeah, this is what's happening. Yeah, on his own,
the only death camps he'll set up are ones that
are more or less where the death is a byproduct
of the other horrible ship he's trying to do. And
the fact that he's like a buffoonish, incompetent dullard who
can't anything right because he manufactures death camps, not always intentionally,
(25:54):
like about half the time, it's just because he was
making some other kind of camp that's he's made, which
bad we shouldn't have present section. Yeah, there's there's there's
no real I guess direction to this other than us
like stumbling through. So let's let's this is nice. Let's
(26:14):
talk about, um, what it is like the organization you
you represent as the Socialist Rifle Association, which I talked
about a couple of times on a number of my podcasts. Um,
I'm kind of curious what you see is sort of
the intersection of of your interest in uh self defense
and community self defense and what we're seeing right now
(26:35):
out of the administration in terms of like bigoted policies.
So um, you know, uh boy, that's asked me a
lot of easy questions. Uma, So you know one I
will always say, you know, the s r A is
very complex and multifaceted organization because you have like you know,
I'm down the DFW area and you know our chapter
(26:57):
here is, Um, I'm going to get a lot of
bull if I I don't say this very smartly. Um,
you know, we're we're a very um you know, if
if you're a leftist, you're gonna know what this means.
So I apologize to people who don't know all the lingo.
You know, we're a very lib left you know, anarchist
shaped you know kind of group. We're not all that.
You know, We've got more people who are very state heavy,
who love their more structural stuff. Sure, great, cool whatever,
(27:20):
And then you have other places where it's more you know,
oh they love their marks, they love their little round glasses. Um,
I'm giving people ship. Um you know, sure, But like
we're a very diverse organization ideologically, we're also a very
diverse organization. Um you in terms of identity, We've got
a lot of cists people. We've got a lot of
trans people, have a lot of straight gay, you know,
lesbian this that another thing kind of folks and um,
(27:41):
you know, one of the things that I like about
us is that I think, on on a root level,
everybody in the s A understands the importance of community
to defense and um, you know, intercommunalism and the idea
that like it's not enough to you know, just be
able to if someone comes on your door, you can
you can get him with your gun, because that's some
like you know, libertarian soldier of fortune crap, like that's
(28:05):
that's goofy, that's that's also you know, dangerous. You're gonna
yourself that Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I've had some
I've had some quarrels with a couple of FedEx guys.
You know, then there's the mail man. But as a
general rule, yeah, I wouldn't think that as a reasonable
primary reason to own arms. And like that's one part
(28:25):
of it worries me is a lot about a lot
of the people asking me for gun advice, is that,
like they're clearly worried about like protecting their home with
a thing that they're just gonna buy because it's a
totem against fear um. And I'm very hesitant to advise
people to to to buy fear totems. Being a Texan,
I grew up around guns. I I you know, they're
(28:46):
just a thing that you can have, and it's like
it's like a kitchen knife on the counter. The thing
on its own is not that dangerous, and the hands
of someone who doesn't know how to wield one, they're
gonna cut your fingers off. And I know, like if
you're from somewhere else, if you have different view of
things that, yeah, well you know sure, I'm not gonna whatever. UM.
And in the s r A, you know, we have
(29:06):
a very geographically and culturally diverse group of people who
you know, don't have who have different levels of comfort
with that. And in terms of community defense, UM, we're
much more uniform in that. You know, it is up
to all of us to take care of all of us,
and it is up to all of us to make
sure that you know, we don't turn towards bigotry, We
don't turn towards you know. Hey, UM, you know, my
(29:30):
ability to feel safe is more important than your actual safety. UM,
my feeling of autonomy is more important than your personhood.
And UM, you know, for whatever disagreements we might have
as members for UM, whatever ideological differences we have, I
(29:50):
want to I hope I believe that is something that
is UM that unites us all as as members in
the s r A UM, and I hope it continue
us too, because I will say, and this is maybe
a little inside baseball, but maybe our president and vice
president hopefully won't be mad at me for saying, um
that while while this has been going on, um, you know,
(30:11):
everything with COVID nineteen and the quarantine and the current
you know, political moment um. I will say, our our
our membership has been going up. Are are You can
look at our Twitter. Our follower numbers have been going
up a lot. Interesting, The ray has been going up
a lot. People are worried and they're reaching out to
to the left. And I'm sure, and I'll tell you now,
(30:31):
I'm sure that the n A can say the same.
I'm sure the INTERA is like, oh man, people are
super interesting guns. I will be really curious. I haven't
actually looked at the INN. If the INTERA has posted
new membership numbers, I'm wondering. I feel like I've lived
through a lot of gun buying panics, as I know
you have. Eva. I remember the first big one of
(30:52):
my life was in two thousand eight, two tho nine,
when President Obama was elected and then sworn in because
of I shouldn't need to say a bunch of sists
were scared that a black guy was president and in
the world was ending um and then most of the
gun buying panics that have happened over the years since then,
We're like, there's a big one after um Adam Lanza
shot up that the Sandy Hook Elementary School because people
(31:15):
were scared of a gun band. Um they tend to
spike after really big massacres, or they didn't after the
Vegas shooting, which is this is getting like it's weird. UM.
There's some suspicion as to why, but UM, as a
general rule, it's either racism or fear of liberals that
sparks UM gun runs. This is the first gun run
(31:38):
I've seen that wasn't sparked by that, And I wonder
if we're not seeing a larger chunk of this one
being driven by people who are are liberals, are on
the left, as opposed to um UM being driven primarily
by like frightened conservatives. Like I'm very curious as to
how many of those gun buyers actually got in our
(31:58):
A memberships and how many of them were people who
just it's it's both a good and a bad thing.
I guess, yeah, I do wonder, and I actually think
it Okay, So you mentioned the stocking earlier. I'm gonna
actually kind of look at it from like a almost
an economic standpoint, because like if you're sending you know,
because I look at because what gets me is the
ammunition side of it, because you cannot find like five, five,
(32:21):
six of all things, which is stupidly common, right, it's
the bullet that goes in an A R fifteen. Yeah,
as a general m DESI general really a um. And
you know if you're in Texas, that's you need even
this stuff. It's everywhere, um, and you can't. They sold
fifteen thousand round buckets for three grand when I was
back there, and and for it to be just missing,
(32:43):
that means there are people buying it in places that
normally it's not getting bought, Like there there's a demand
shock for what's I mean, I think you guys talked
about demand shock in the show before, so I can
just say that word now. It's fine, um, but there's
there's people buying it in places and amounts that normally
there's just not a demand for it, which yees to
me implies that like there's now a demographic shift and
who's buying this stuff, which on some level is like
(33:03):
kind of I guess worrying because it's like, yeah, there's
there's probably more just loose ammunition in this country per
capita than there's been just the Revolutionary War. I have
a bunch of it on my desk. Yeah, I mean
just I mean that that's the thought that like, I
really can't put a feeling to um, and it's kind
(33:24):
of hard not to, like, I just don't know how
to feel about that, Like it's really Yeah, I'll say
it's a transgender two it sucks. Yeah, it's it's not
a plague. It blows. You mentioned you mentioned the years
of the plague. I'm gonna pour some bev here just quickly.
It blows. Yeah, it's what is um? Uh. This is
(33:48):
is not brought to you by Woodford Reserves of the Bourbons.
It's one of them. Yeah, which brings us back to
our topic of the worst you're ever topic at hand.
And I will say, like that is um and I
think it is related to the trans thing, probably because
you know, if this gets worse and they're people talking like, oh,
(34:08):
we're flattening, flattening the curves, flattening curves, flattening the curves. Um.
You can watch TV. There are people pouring into churches
right now. There are people saying there's no plague there's
no plague. We'll we'll see. Um, we're supposed to be
hitting the peak now and and some places are just
getting started. Yeah. That's the scary thing is it's looking
like sucking. Michigan's probably what twelve days out from their peace. Believable,
(34:33):
Their numbers are already horrible. Whatever happens today, Yeah, there's
there's no telling. Um, we're not we're not going to know.
And if things if things get worse, you know, people
are going to get mad. Hopefully people get mad at
the people in power. Hopefully people get mad at the
people who let them with fingers fucking crossed. Yeah. Yeah,
(34:57):
but if if the people in power needs someone to blame,
if if the churches need someone to blame, they're going
to say, well it's it's you know, it's the people
who bathe. That's what always happens. That's that's how the
song always goes. Yeah, you're referring to the episode of
Behind the Bastards I just did when we talk about
why Jewish people were targeted during the Black Death and
because not as many of them died because they bathed
(35:19):
every week and Christians didn't you know, um, because it
was gross in the past. Yeah, and for what you're
seeing this happen. Yeah, yeah, story today about the you know,
Jewish gatherings and stuff being zoom bombed by people with
(35:39):
anti Semitic messages and yeah trans community already. But yeah,
and that guy. There's just video again today of like
a dude in front of the Chinese consul in Australia
with a bull whip, like shouting race hatred. Um, that's cool, cool,
just like his just like it's cool, hero, just like
(36:03):
just like our buddy Hitler. I shouldn't call him our buddy.
I really gotta I gotta break that. Shouldn't say that
I gotta recalibrate some things after doing the show that
I do, just like just like that one person in
history who also had a bull whip. Yeah, of course
(36:23):
about I don't really have a joke. This is just
a bad thing that's happening. Yeah, So I do think
it's important to like, uh, yeah, there's when when we
talk about stuff like this, it's important to both like, um,
keep in mind like the things that are are specific
to like this individual group that's struggling, whether you're talking
(36:45):
about like racism against Asian Americans or like you know,
anti trans policies being pursued by the government, Like it's
important to talk about how those things are like, how
those trials being faced by those communities are unique. But
I also think like it's important to recognize that the
attacks to both of those communities have the same point
of origin, which is like, and it's not like an individual.
There are individuals that we can look at as as
(37:08):
like inflection points for that, but it's like it's a feeling,
and it's a feeling that has been deliberately cultivated like
a garden in the hearts of millions. Um. And that's
the thing that's going to kill a lot more people
than the coronavirus. And I would say, I would say
a majority of the people who have died of the coronavirus.
There's numbers coming out right now suggesting like se of
(37:29):
the dead and Louisiana are black. Where there's all these
systemic reasons why that's the case. Um. I didn't come
on here to say that the solution to fighting all
of these things as bullets, because I don't think that
it is. But I'm sure open to anyone who has
an idea of like how we how we fix this uh,
should we just can we ban Facebook first? I would
(37:51):
be a good start. Yeah. I mean the bullets aren't
a solution for obviously. I think it's um the comfort,
it's a preparation, preparation. I was one of the people
that reached out to you when this started, Robert, you know,
should we get a handgun? Thankfully I did ask you
when you were like not now, like not the time,
(38:13):
like you know, like you're gonna do this. Don't just
buy a handgun so you have or yeah, yeah, don't
get a fear to yeah, don't be literally an episode
of The Simpsons, Yeah yeah, Hey, Now, Homer developed a
lot of fun uses for his gun that I denticate
to They're great for turning off lights, which we need
(38:37):
to start mushrooms. Thank you, dig up mushrooms, your mushroom life.
I think that's about all we had to talk about
for today. UM So, this has been a fun discussion
about how when the authoritarians in power pushed to marginalize
(38:57):
groups of people based on big tree, it will inevitably
lead to death on an almost unimaginable scale if it
isn't immediately and uh strongly resisted, and there's a variety
of strategies to doing that, which Sophie make a note
that's the title of the episode. Fun you know, like
I said, a nice light topic for a nice like
(39:17):
we in a nice light year. Yeah, yeah, we we
are planning to do some more episodes where we focus
on different communities and areas being affected that you might
not immediately realize, to try to expand awareness and yeah,
get it. We need to be listening, We need to
be paying attention. And the thing you can do, the
(39:38):
most important that you can do, and this is while
you're stuck online, is if you see someone saying, hi,
you know, I'm not not high or whatever, if I'm
a if you're a transgender person who's saying, you know,
something that seems angry, that seems frustrated, don't be put
off by the tone, don't be put off by whateverything.
Listen to what's actually being said, because there's gonna be anger,
there's gonna be frustration, there's gonna be hurt, there's going
(39:59):
to be years of pent up whatever. Trust me, it's
going to be years of it, um, But there's going
to be truth in that experience, and you have to
you have to listen now more than ever because it's
going to get worse. Things are going to get worse,
and we have a reminder. Yeah, it's so easy to
(40:20):
get wrapped up in in everything that we are experiencing
and online there's this veneer like it's we're connected, but
we're anonymous, we're separate. We we are not actually sharing
each other's pain that easily. You know, you have to
just stop and take a step back and not knee
jerk react to things, which is something that I especially
(40:42):
need to do. I mean we all need to. I
don't say that in like a preacher way. I mean
it is a reminder to myself. As Eva stated, things
are going to get worse. And follow us on Twitter? Yes, yeah,
even what's your Twitter handle on Twitter to guarantee that
things get I mean, well, if you're gonna, if you're
(41:04):
if for whatever on godly reason, you're gonna go on Twitter.
Um you can you can find me at Po River
jam Band p O River jam Band on on the
Twitter website, Um, if you want to. And and again
just you know, let's listen to what people have to
say and you know, be there for each other and
(41:25):
you the people who are who are less powerful than
you are going to be there for you. People who
are more profer than you should be there for you.
It's not about social capital, it's not about political capital.
It's just about it's about we've got to be there
for each other because it's it's going to get rough
out there and all we're gonna have is each other.
So do that. Just try to try to be less,
(41:48):
try to be less of what we've been. I guess
so do that? Can we all just take it down
and notch? Yeah? Just just be cool for like ten
and see how that feels. Well, you can see how
we feel on Twitter. I don't know why I keep
bringing this back to plugging our Twitter, but you just
want all of us to be swimming around in that
(42:08):
slop of a Twitter pig pen. You can find none
of us on Twitter, fucking go outside, but also people,
yeah yeah, on Twitter, on Instagram at Worst your pod,
you can follow Katie at Katie Stool. You can follow
Robert at I Right, Okay, you can follow Cody at
(42:30):
dr Mr Cody and you should go washer here. So
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(42:52):
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