March 19, 2025 • 30 mins
This week on WrestleChat Podcast, AntMan and Michael dive deep into John Cena’s explosive promo on Raw, his surprising heel turn, and the unanswered questions about his feud with Cody Rhodes. Did this segment deliver, or did it leave too many gaps? 🤔 Plus, we break down the Jey Uso vs. Gunther rivalry—is it clicking, or does something feel off? And how does this compare to the Charlotte Flair vs. Tiffany Stratton feud? Can Tiffany rise to the occasion and prove she's more than just another challenger? Also on the docket: ✅ Is Aleister Black coming back to WWE? 🤯 ✅ Is Penta vs. Bron Breakker the next great Intercontinental Championship feud? ✅ WrestleMania storylines heating up—who’s got the momentum? And hey, we’re so close to hitting 1K followers on Instagram & TikTok! 🙌 Help us hit that milestone and keep the wrestling conversation going. Hit SUBSCRIBE on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or iHeartRadio and never miss an episode! 🎧💥 #WrestleChatPodcast #WWE #WrestleMania #JohnCena #CodyRhodes #Gunther #JeyUso #TiffanyStratton #CharlotteFlair #MalakaiBlack #AEW #WWENews Follow the show on Instagram: ➡️ https://www.Instagram.com/WrestleChatPodcast Follow The AntMan: ➡️ https://www.Instagram.com/TheAntMan.co
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'll tell you something. I could get used to watching
Monday night Raw at two pm in the afternoon. Does
that mean do you put that as a work meeting
for you? Yes?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Yeah, so I just I blocked it off. I happened
to be off work anyway. Coincidentally, coincidentally, coincidentally, Greg, if
you're watching, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Everything I was like was the truth?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
But but no, it was. It was. It was a
much different dynamic. However, as good as that was, I'm
gonna I'm gonna start the show by taking us way
off on a backcountry road here, it really messed up
my day in the sense that it made my afternoon fun.
And then after it was over, I was like, there's
(00:49):
nothing left. I just need to go to bed, Like,
can I just go to bed at five o'clock?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Like? Is that allowed? It's only because right now you
don't have a lawn too mote. That's what I did.
I wouldn't moved the lawn. It was over. I was like, Man,
I contemplated about seven pm, going, hey, guys, you ready
to turn on Raw just to get the reaction. Yeah,
they had already like walked in in the middle of it,
you know, all that stuff. Let's go back real quick
(01:15):
and take a look at a condensed version of the
beginning of Raw.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
You see, for twenty five years, I've been the victim. Okay,
I have been the victim of an abusive relationship.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
No, no, no, you have lost your time to talk.
I tried one last time to get along with you, guys.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I tried one last time to do something nice for you,
and you ruined it, just like you're going everything. Look,
I am not a babyface, I am not a heel.
I'm a human being, and each and every one of
(02:08):
you has been awful to me. Go ahead, go ahead,
You've been awful. Listen, kid enough.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
And it's certainly not kid. It's WWE Champion.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Even after what you did.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
I was excited at the prospect of going week to
week face to face with John Cena, and instead I
got this. Well, this better not show up at WrestleMania,
because if it does, I run it over. I run
it out because I already took it's best shot and
(02:56):
it wasn't good enough.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I retire it early.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
So go find John Cena because I want to wrestle
him at wrestle Mania forty one.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Not this whiny bitch. Wow. Okay, the language of Cody
Rhodes is I mean, it's staying up there. It's not
quite the F bomb on elimination Chamber, but I mean
he's keeping it rolling. He's kind of like the comics
that say that that that's the only time you really
get laughs, although there will be something let's say, let's
(03:30):
say not he's I do most of them say that
is the way you get the quickest laughs is to
drop some of those explicitives. But there I think it
may have just meant a little more between John Cena
and Cody Rhodes in that instance, What a way to
kick it off. Nearly thirty minutes of John Cena, well,
about twenty minutes of John Cena, in the last ten
(03:50):
minutes of Cody telling him how he thought as well.
I liked the rest of RAW. I didn't care about
the rest of raw. You're exhausted, but the exactly and
I wonder what the I mean I was exhausted watching
the the audience of Brussels. I can't imagine what the
(04:10):
audience in Brussels we're experiencing. After that thirty minutes was over,
It's like, how do I would hate to be the
match that followed that.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, I mean it. You know, you never know what's
going on behind the scenes. Did seem to have to
catch a plane to keep wrapping up other you know stuff.
We know he's got a long run, you know where
he's settling into full time here coming up soon, but
I don't know if he's finishing up other stuff that
could have had nothing.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
To do with it.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It did seem like for such a blockbuster thing, it
seems strange to go on first, But that could also
be the Netflix era where they want to grab everybody's
attention right from the start and then hope they stick around,
versus the alternative, you know, cable TV. Maybe it was
the opposite. Maybe you know, the way Nielsen worked or whatever,
(05:00):
they had to keep him on longer. But all that
to say, it was definitely an emotional ride that left
you kind of tired when it was all done.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Even heel Seena back in the day before he turned
to the hustle, loyalty, respect and what have you, never
spoke to the audience like he did last night. It
was their fault or our fault. I'm included in that.
It was my fault. I was mean to him. The
abusive relationship was between me and Sena. That's how he
made me feel anyway, watching that promo, how about you,
(05:33):
do you feel like you abused him a little bit? Verbally?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I wanted to after that. I wanted to.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
After that, well, I didn't really feel like that, but
now I do, Sina, how about that?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
It's a little strange, well diving into it now, so
I have to cut this up. I was really thinking
about this today, So in the moment I loved the segment.
Really nothing about it I didn't like. As I was
chewing on it and saw replays and stuff. I think
it was brilliantly executed. Sina is a master on the microphone.
(06:06):
The way he managed the really hot crowd at the
beginning of the promo almost had a yawn there, but
I thought it back jump. But I love the way
that like the almost walking out, you know that beautiful
controlling the crowd. But where it fell short for me
(06:28):
in hindsight was that it doesn't explain why Sina did
what he did. It explains why Sina is in a
bad mood, like you know, like he exactly like this
is not an explanation so far for that Now, I
(06:51):
think maybe this could be a multi stage thing where
I think they knew that we would have loved Hena
if it was the Doctor of Thuganomics or something like that.
Maybe they felt they had to make Sena almost this
like pathetic thing to break down all this so we
would actually be disgusted with him. So I'm waiting to
(07:14):
see maybe if it's a multi tier thing. But to
summarize and not ramble on the only thing that lacked
was it doesn't explain him capitalizing in a dirty way
at Elimination Chamber and then subsequently turning on Cody. There's
no you know, the rock wasn't mentioned at all. That
(07:35):
seemed like a weird thing. So this is the first
time where I left a segment going Okay, this doesn't
feel like something that I just need to be patient
and wait play out. This kind of just felt like
a miss. So I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not
sure if I am.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
You know, a couple of things. One of the one
that he brought up that I didn't put in our
little condensed version there was his point of being the
butt of an invisible joke for the last for the
last fifteen twenty years, which I thought was I didn't
even catch it in the moment. I watched it twice,
didn't catch it the second time. I didn't notice it
until somebody posted about it and then actually put the
(08:16):
video afterwards, and I was like, oh, he did bring
that up. How about It's like, it's one of those
you'll uncover. I believe that I'll uncover. The more I
watch it, the more I'll catch and those I love
those kind of thing. I mean, you could tell he
thought about it. You could also I've heard this about
Sina and kind of going and pulling the curtain back
of Tad that he doesn't like to know what the
(08:37):
other person's going to say to him and to you know,
unless Cody told him I need a prompt like hey
kid or hey Tiger or whatever. If that wasn't and
it was just that quick, that makes it even more special.
But to know that he doesn't like to know what
they're going to say, he'll respond how he would normally
respond is the best. Because Cody left it with there's
(09:00):
nothing left for him to say. There's nothing left for
Sina to say in this occasion to rebut or to refute,
especially as Cody's walking out and wrap it up. The
best thing was to do was to walk out and
give the crowd their opportunity to do exactly what they
did and no, hey, goodbye. And they had tried that
(09:21):
once and did a little bit in the middle of it,
but the one at the end was so loud, so responsive,
just bully, I think is he posted something about this.
This was the epitome of a Seth and a Jedi,
them going at it with each other. This was this
was it. These were the two and it makes me
(09:44):
excited about what's next. Even though he may not have
touched on what you pointed out and why he did
what he did to Cody. It also gave me the
hope that maybe the Rock and Travis Scott are not
going to be involved in the week to week, which
I'd be okay with. They come back at Maniat. Yeah,
I get it our power, you get eyes on the product.
That's completely fine. But let it be between them two
(10:04):
from now until one month from now. We only have
four more weeks before those two get in the ring,
presumably at night number two of WrestleMania forty one. I
haven't given any kind of lineup yet of when this
might go down. Of course, we talked about Roman Reigns
last week, guessing that will have some prominent placement. I mean,
you really have four prominent placements in these shows, the
(10:28):
very first match and the very last match of each night,
So you have a lot to do before we get
to April nineteenth and twentieth. With Cody, what do you expect?
Was this what you expected from the first face to
face between the two? For me? It was enough for me.
(10:49):
I didn't want physicality in this one. I wanted him
to do basically exactly what he did. I thought if
we got too much, there's not a lot left. What
do you think?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, I agree, I think it was the right amount
of everything. I agree they should not touch each other
before Mania. Cody's a super baby face. There's no reason
for him to be picking a dirty fight, and Sena's
playing you know, that greasy, slimy heel, and he's not
gonna want to do it unless there's a payday involved, exactly,
(11:21):
and so there's there's no reason for them to touch
prior to Mania. So it was it was tastefully done
the way it all worked out.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, And a couple of things that I've
forgotten about. Just now that Sena touched on which people
were posting about. When he does come back on March
sixteenth in Brussels, there's going to be a brand new
look for John Cena, a brand new song, and he
touched on him. I'm not giving you a brand new look.
You guys dress like me. I don't dress like you anyway.
This is me. That's me on the song, and that
(11:53):
is my song. It's not your song. I don't need
to change anything. This is who I am. You guys
have hated this and it's me. I'm really glad that
they touched on things that people are talking about.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, it's nice to feel like the IWC exists. I
don't think they should drive anything. I want to make
that very clear.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
If you're booking that way, that is a terrible way
to book, which it doesn't feel like you're doing on this.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
To acknowledge the conversation that is being had makes it
feel that much more real. To know that Cina indirectly
addressed something I said on X That's cool, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, agreed, I'm excited about this. Hey, real quick Instagram.
We are forty five away from our first thousand, kind
of close to that if you wouldn't mind. If you're
not following this yet on Instagram, wrestle Chat podcast, on TikTok,
we are five away, just five away from our first
thousand on TikTok. So if you're not following us on
any of the social media's, or ax is the only
(13:01):
one that's different because it doesn't allow you that many letters.
It's wrestle Chat Pod. Everything else is wrestle Chat podcast.
If you mind give us a follow, you can also
just hit the link if you go to wrestle chat
podcast dot com. Some other stuff we got coming up
for WrestleMania forty one, or at least anticipating Jay and Gunther.
We know we have that as the world title. Especially
you don't want to compare one to the other, but
(13:22):
just excitement in and of itself, I'm not sure the
excitement levels on WrestleMania par at the moment. Where do
you see this going and what do you expect to
happen between now and this time next month?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Michael, Well, well, now I'm not sure because did you
did you hear the breaking news today's h He has
a back injury from carrying the weight of this fun
Did he really post that somebody did not him?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Oh, that's hilarious that somebody did. This is even worse
news now other than having nowhere to go.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, person on X that actually wrote that credit to.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You, I read it off of this excellent work, excellent one.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
But but here here's the thing. I like jay Uso.
I like Jay, I like his move set, I like
his charisma. This current lane that he's in feels like
it's a little too much Samoan Mojo Raleigh. For me,
(14:35):
it's just like dude comparison, Like it's just like yeah
and Mojo, I thought you were cool too, Like it's
it's just it's like hamsna Yeats World champ Yeat like
it's it's just it's canned and it's predictable. And I
(14:59):
really feel that there's like take the USO penitentiary era
and put a face version on that Superstar Superstar. Now
here's here's the thing I'm gonna acknowledge. I'm a little
bit older. Jay Usso is probably the stuff to a
(15:20):
thirteen year old kid, Like I get that, but when
you're kind of strapping that rocket, because like even go
back to like Sena a perfect example. Sena even in
like like Deepen the Doctor of thug Anomics, he was
never cheesy, like it was over the top, but it
(15:42):
wasn't corny. And I feel like where we've landed with
Jay currently is it's got a little bit of corny
to it. And so it's a really hard matchup with Gunther,
who is this ultra serious heel, very sharp dressed, like
really the antithesis of Cody Rhodes, you know on the
(16:04):
face and heel side, if you think about it, just
the polished heel champion and this thing with Jay for me,
it's just not matching up well.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
And the things that have always made the matches that
Cody Rhodes have has had over the last year that
have really waded into Cody Rhods becoming the star that
he is is the opposition that he's faced every single time,
and it's always been like, you know, right after WrestleMania,
it was the rock him coming out with with what
Cody gave him in his hand and handing that back
(16:36):
and what it was that a lot of speculation about that,
and then every match that he that he had since
then always had had some adversity that he needed to
come over and and it was the what am I
trying to say? It's it was equivalent on the opposite end,
and there hasn't been that for Gunther is spectacular, He's
not being met with the same energy right from Ja. Yes,
(16:57):
Jay is great in and of himself. They it's like
styles clashing when it comes to these two, it will
be a great match. Absolutely, both of them are great wrestlers.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Story, I got so confused because you said styles clashing,
and I went, wait, are we talking about AJ styles?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
That's where AJ got his name from. Yea, the actual
styles clash. But they say that that that is supposed
to make a great feud a style you know, a
great match anyway, or the different styles of the two clashing.
But in this instance, I don't. It feels like they're
on different pages between Jay and Company.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Both guys have lost a little bit of steam in
this feud, and I'm not really sure why. Somebody on
X the other day had a great point and they
said they figured out what made Gunther special far too late,
because when he was the Intercontinental Champion, he was over
over right, and it's because he was wrestling on TV
(17:57):
week in and week out, and assume as as he
won the World Heavyweight Championship, he wasn't on TV as much,
and I think every time he's there it's great. And
then now we're seeing him more on a week to
week basis. And then with Jay, it's to your point,
there's no really, there's nothing to overcome. I mean, if
(18:18):
you look at some of the greatest kind of Royal
Rumble journeys, most of them have something to overcome, to
your point, and in this scenario, there's just there's nothing
to overcome.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, and not to go backwards, but that what all
makes me excited that I think it's probably time that
Cody maybe loses, not to jump ahead, but maybe loses
the title at WrestleMania, because it's time for that next
chasm for him to cross to the same one that
(18:52):
we watched for over a year, what we thought he
was going to get at WrestleMania thirty nine that he
didn't end up getting into WrestleMania forty and the Grand
Canyon he strolled through and fought through to get to
forty and make it happen. I think that that's what
he's going to need again. Now these two guys need
that same thing, whether Jay needs to he won the
(19:15):
Intercontinental title and then lost it and then won the
Royal Rumble, or had a chance to win the world
title at Saturday Night. Saturday Nights made event and lost
that match, but then won the Royal Rumbles. He gets
another chance. It's that storytelling is a little off and
a little odd. Now you like you like to say,
is that I'm not going to jump ahead and I'm
(19:36):
gonna give them the benefit of the doubt, right because
so much the great stuff there and I'm anxious to
see what they do in this one because right now
it's not clicking. Yeah, it's like it feels like it's
you know, some music, You and I both musicians, that
it feels like just we're off with the drummer right
now with those two and as soon as it clicks,
it'll be great.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And again, this is nothing against either one of these guys,
of course, it's just something to your point, something's not there.
But right now, I'm just not hyped going into this.
And the other thing I was thinking kind of while
you were wrapping up there was I think it's really
(20:17):
easy to make these decisions potentially when you're only looking
at T shirt sales, which I'm sure are great for
Jay Uso. He is a prominent figure in the company,
but for whatever reason, it's not there yet. But we've
got a month.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
So we'll see fantasy booking throwing this in here that
something would not that it has to be this person.
I'm just gonna put them in the slot because we've
heard that there's going to be, you know, one last
run at least one last match for Goldberg. I could
see something happening just out of the blue. If this
is match number one on night number one, as as
(20:56):
Jay is coming to the ring, he gets speared through
something by gold Oldberg out of the blue, and Goldberg
takes his place and has something there. Now, I know
they probably want to do a build up that's not
going to happen again. I'm only inserting Goldberg's name in
that place. For something catastrophic to happen before Jay ever
gets to the ring for that match. That would make
(21:16):
something interesting for me. Yeah, I agree, And I think.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Expounding upon the point you just made, you know, I
think it's possible the regime could also be saying, hey,
everything doesn't have to culminate at WrestleMania. Some things could.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Start absolutely completely agree. Now I've had I was going
to say, have similar feelings. I had similar feelings, and
they haven't all gone away, but I had some similar
feelings about Tiffany and Charlotte on our notes. I'm sorry,
I patrician, Tiffy. I'm glad. You know what I meant.
Charlotte and Tiffany Stratton at WrestleMania for the women's WWE
(22:00):
Women's title. This one felt like the Jay and the
Gunther match with kind of leaning the other way Charlotte.
Now you know how I feel about Charlotte. I think
we we've established that here on this podcast. However, if
you just look at it, you go, Okay, yeah, Tiffy
is just not measuring up to watch Charlotte. Until Monday,
(22:21):
I was gonna say, I keep wanting to say Monday night,
that's Monday afternoon for me. So Monday afternoon on Raw
with that pollpart that continued to miss TV and again
came back around that just became more and more brutal
as they went along. I thought that, Okay, I have
some interest. Now there's some fire in Tiffany Stratton to
(22:41):
whoop the queen, and if we can continue that for
the next four weeks and build upon it. I'm gonna
be interested in that match, how about you.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I'm still in a place where I'm just kind of
fundamentally rejecting it. If I'm being honest, the Charlotte Flair
actor is still there for me because what it feels like.
And again, I don't know anything. I'm just going off
of muscle memory from what I've seen for the last decade.
(23:12):
It's gonna come in or Charlotte's gonna come in. It's
gonna be a great match, She's gonna win, and it's
just more Charlotte Flair having another number next to her
name that she doesn't need. She came back, she won
the rumbles, she won a title. Wow, We've seen that
story one hundred times now, and so you know, it's
it's nothing against Charlotte's talent, it's nothing against Tiffany's contributions
(23:36):
to the feud. But at the moment, I'm still in
the place or I'm just like it seems predictable, So
I'm just not in it right now.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Well, and that they need to get somebody, and Tiffany
the most likely individual, someone to the level of Becky
Lynch for Charlotte. If Charlotte is your is your queen
and the women's division, she needs to have somebody, Like
we talk about with all these other ones, you need
to have that opposition, and she right now doesn't have anybody.
If if she's your, you know, your golden goose in
(24:07):
the women's side, you need to build somebody. So why
why not Tiffany get you have the belt on her
right now? I think the excitement with Tiffany was her
cashing in to get that title, right, But there's nobody
else I see behind Tiffany that's any better than where
Tiffany is right now, right and what they put behind.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Her well, and the other thing. From a more global perspective,
there are very, very very few feuds that you can
name that with Charlotte Flair that didn't involve a title. Yeah,
that's very true everybody else on the roster. You look
(24:48):
at people like Sasha and Bailey that just hated each
other because they hated each other. You know, you have
back in the day you had Trician lieda that it
was a It transcended the title because there was other issues.
Charlotte can't carry a storyline without a title being involved.
And that's why it's frustrating. And we've already seen that
from Tiffany Stratton with her work with Nya Jacks. There
(25:11):
was tension between them. Now granted I agree that the
briefcase was a part of it, but they played off
of that dynamic of them being friends. There was a
story within the story, and so again, just to repeat myself,
that's why I can't get on board with it, because
I want Charlotte doesn't need the title anymore. She's the
(25:35):
highest or she has the most accolades of any other
female talent on the roster. Her being in a title
situation is just not necessary.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
And if you have to compare it or given an example,
you can do that with John Cena before right now.
You had John Cena go for a long time with
no title, and even when he did have a title,
it was a secondary title. It was a US title. Well,
he was an Although he had more accolades than anyone
that was in the running for the world title, the
WWE Championship, he wasn't in that picture. He had other
(26:10):
things going on. And I don't know why you can't
have that with Charlotte as well. I don't know what
always has to be about the women's world title. While
that is great, that it doesn't make this story interesting
for anyone I believe. Yeah, we've talked about a few
times before I get there. If you haven't subscribed to
(26:32):
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(26:53):
the chat. So drop a comment on the YouTube the
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thoughts if you're not watching on YouTube, and let us
know how you feel about all these topics that we've
talked about today. We've hit on a couple of times
(27:15):
the free agents that are still out there, whether it
be from TNA leaving, whether it be from AAW leaving,
and just kind of floating. Anticipation of them coming back
probably hasn't been any more than been any higher for
any two people than Ray Phoenix. And I don't know
what to call it. A call him Alistair Black or
Malachi Black. I guess if he's coming back to ww
(27:37):
you'ld be Malachi, right, And a lot of speculation if
the smoke and the four that came on the screen
on RAW I think actually on Smackdowns where I saw
it first, could that be Malachi coming back to the WWE,
NF so, any speculation on what the four means.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
My initial thought trying to decrypt it is I think
it's going to end up being a date in April,
So I think I think we'll see the four and
then and then the other will come out. But honestly,
I can't fall between the two. Alistair Black being his
WWE name.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Was it Alistair Black? I thought it was Malachi Black.
Malachi Black is outside w w E Okay, got it?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yeah, copy Alistair was his ENNX teen name, Okay, But
I couldn't tell.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I think it could be either.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I think it leans more toward Alistair right now, but
I'm also not as familiar with Ray Phoenix's like branding
and the stuff that like the look he usually goes
for so a lot more.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Luca would be my guess, and I would have thinks
something to do with his brother, who is Penta, right,
I would if they're putting them back together, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
And I would think with all the news that's been
around Ray Phoenix, I would have to think that his
would be more of like a rise showing up rather
than like a forecasted thing. So I'm gonna lean more
toward that. Maybe it's Alistair Black, but it also could
be neither of these people.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
That's very true. It could be neither one of them. Now,
speaking of Pinta, though he announced that he is going
after the Intercontinental Championship, presumably in time for WrestleMania, has
four weeks to build up something there with bron Breaker.
We'll dig into that next week here on the podcast. Now,
let us know what you think, even if you want
(29:31):
to talk about that, hit us up with what you
think about Penta going for the Icy title. Do you
see that coming off a bron Breaker or is this
the beginning of a few that could last for a
week that might be fun. We haven't had one of
those in a little bit. It's always about what goes
up to I like what you said. It could be
a place where things start, and I would like that
for a long run with you talk about styles clashing
(29:53):
and just a monster and bron Breaker and a lucha
and pentas. Styles very different and could be very fun
to watch over the community. So we'll wait and see.
We'll chat about that next week. Anything else we should
hit before we roll out of here, Michael.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
It is still a great time to be a professional
wrestling fan.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Indeed it is. For Michael Cleavin, I'm the ant Man.
We'll see you next week here on the wrestle Chat podcast.
I'll tell you something. I could get used to watching
Monday night Raw at two pm in the afternoon. Does
that mean do you put that as a work meeting
for you? Yes?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Yeah, so I just I blocked it off. I happened
to be off work anyway. Coincidentally, coincidentally, coincidentally, Greg, if
you're watching, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Everything I was like was the truth?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
But but no, it was. It was. It was a
much different dynamic. However, as good as that was, I'm
gonna I'm gonna start the show by taking us way
off on a backcountry road here, it really messed up
my day in the sense that it made my afternoon fun.
And then after it was over, I was like, there's
(00:49):
nothing left. I just need to go to bed, Like,
can I just go to bed at five o'clock?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Like? Is that allowed? It's only because right now you
don't have a lawn too mote. That's what I did.
I wouldn't moved the lawn. It was over. I was like, Man,
I contemplated about seven pm, going, hey, guys, you ready
to turn on Raw just to get the reaction. Yeah,
they had already like walked in in the middle of it,
you know, all that stuff. Let's go back real quick
(01:15):
and take a look at a condensed version of the
beginning of Raw.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
You see, for twenty five years, I've been the victim. Okay,
I have been the victim of an abusive relationship.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
No, no, no, you have lost your time to talk.
I tried one last time to get along with you, guys.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I tried one last time to do something nice for you,
and you ruined it, just like you're going everything. Look,
I am not a babyface, I am not a heel.
I'm a human being, and each and every one of
(02:08):
you has been awful to me. Go ahead, go ahead,
You've been awful. Listen, kid enough.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
And it's certainly not kid. It's WWE Champion.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Even after what you did.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
I was excited at the prospect of going week to
week face to face with John Cena, and instead I
got this. Well, this better not show up at WrestleMania,
because if it does, I run it over. I run
it out because I already took it's best shot and
(02:56):
it wasn't good enough.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I retire it early.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
So go find John Cena because I want to wrestle
him at wrestle Mania forty one.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Not this whiny bitch. Wow. Okay, the language of Cody
Rhodes is I mean, it's staying up there. It's not
quite the F bomb on elimination Chamber, but I mean
he's keeping it rolling. He's kind of like the comics
that say that that that's the only time you really
get laughs, although there will be something let's say, let's
(03:30):
say not he's I do most of them say that
is the way you get the quickest laughs is to
drop some of those explicitives. But there I think it
may have just meant a little more between John Cena
and Cody Rhodes in that instance, What a way to
kick it off. Nearly thirty minutes of John Cena, well,
about twenty minutes of John Cena, in the last ten
(03:50):
minutes of Cody telling him how he thought as well.
I liked the rest of RAW. I didn't care about
the rest of raw. You're exhausted, but the exactly and
I wonder what the I mean I was exhausted watching
the the audience of Brussels. I can't imagine what the
(04:10):
audience in Brussels we're experiencing. After that thirty minutes was over,
It's like, how do I would hate to be the
match that followed that.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, I mean it. You know, you never know what's
going on behind the scenes. Did seem to have to
catch a plane to keep wrapping up other you know stuff.
We know he's got a long run, you know where
he's settling into full time here coming up soon, but
I don't know if he's finishing up other stuff that
could have had nothing.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
To do with it.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It did seem like for such a blockbuster thing, it
seems strange to go on first, But that could also
be the Netflix era where they want to grab everybody's
attention right from the start and then hope they stick around,
versus the alternative, you know, cable TV. Maybe it was
the opposite. Maybe you know, the way Nielsen worked or whatever,
(05:00):
they had to keep him on longer. But all that
to say, it was definitely an emotional ride that left
you kind of tired when it was all done.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Even heel Seena back in the day before he turned
to the hustle, loyalty, respect and what have you, never
spoke to the audience like he did last night. It
was their fault or our fault. I'm included in that.
It was my fault. I was mean to him. The
abusive relationship was between me and Sena. That's how he
made me feel anyway, watching that promo, how about you,
(05:33):
do you feel like you abused him a little bit? Verbally?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I wanted to after that. I wanted to.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
After that, well, I didn't really feel like that, but
now I do, Sina, how about that?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
It's a little strange, well diving into it now, so
I have to cut this up. I was really thinking
about this today, So in the moment I loved the segment.
Really nothing about it I didn't like. As I was
chewing on it and saw replays and stuff. I think
it was brilliantly executed. Sina is a master on the microphone.
(06:06):
The way he managed the really hot crowd at the
beginning of the promo almost had a yawn there, but
I thought it back jump. But I love the way
that like the almost walking out, you know that beautiful
controlling the crowd. But where it fell short for me
(06:28):
in hindsight was that it doesn't explain why Sina did
what he did. It explains why Sina is in a
bad mood, like you know, like he exactly like this
is not an explanation so far for that Now, I
(06:51):
think maybe this could be a multi stage thing where
I think they knew that we would have loved Hena
if it was the Doctor of Thuganomics or something like that.
Maybe they felt they had to make Sena almost this
like pathetic thing to break down all this so we
would actually be disgusted with him. So I'm waiting to
(07:14):
see maybe if it's a multi tier thing. But to
summarize and not ramble on the only thing that lacked
was it doesn't explain him capitalizing in a dirty way
at Elimination Chamber and then subsequently turning on Cody. There's
no you know, the rock wasn't mentioned at all. That
(07:35):
seemed like a weird thing. So this is the first
time where I left a segment going Okay, this doesn't
feel like something that I just need to be patient
and wait play out. This kind of just felt like
a miss. So I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not
sure if I am.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
You know, a couple of things. One of the one
that he brought up that I didn't put in our
little condensed version there was his point of being the
butt of an invisible joke for the last for the
last fifteen twenty years, which I thought was I didn't
even catch it in the moment. I watched it twice,
didn't catch it the second time. I didn't notice it
until somebody posted about it and then actually put the
(08:16):
video afterwards, and I was like, oh, he did bring
that up. How about It's like, it's one of those
you'll uncover. I believe that I'll uncover. The more I
watch it, the more I'll catch and those I love
those kind of thing. I mean, you could tell he
thought about it. You could also I've heard this about
Sina and kind of going and pulling the curtain back
of Tad that he doesn't like to know what the
(08:37):
other person's going to say to him and to you know,
unless Cody told him I need a prompt like hey
kid or hey Tiger or whatever. If that wasn't and
it was just that quick, that makes it even more special.
But to know that he doesn't like to know what
they're going to say, he'll respond how he would normally
respond is the best. Because Cody left it with there's
(09:00):
nothing left for him to say. There's nothing left for
Sina to say in this occasion to rebut or to refute,
especially as Cody's walking out and wrap it up. The
best thing was to do was to walk out and
give the crowd their opportunity to do exactly what they
did and no, hey, goodbye. And they had tried that
(09:21):
once and did a little bit in the middle of it,
but the one at the end was so loud, so responsive,
just bully, I think is he posted something about this.
This was the epitome of a Seth and a Jedi,
them going at it with each other. This was this
was it. These were the two and it makes me
(09:44):
excited about what's next. Even though he may not have
touched on what you pointed out and why he did
what he did to Cody. It also gave me the
hope that maybe the Rock and Travis Scott are not
going to be involved in the week to week, which
I'd be okay with. They come back at Maniat. Yeah,
I get it our power, you get eyes on the product.
That's completely fine. But let it be between them two
(10:04):
from now until one month from now. We only have
four more weeks before those two get in the ring,
presumably at night number two of WrestleMania forty one. I
haven't given any kind of lineup yet of when this
might go down. Of course, we talked about Roman Reigns
last week, guessing that will have some prominent placement. I mean,
you really have four prominent placements in these shows, the
(10:28):
very first match and the very last match of each night,
So you have a lot to do before we get
to April nineteenth and twentieth. With Cody, what do you expect?
Was this what you expected from the first face to
face between the two? For me? It was enough for me.
(10:49):
I didn't want physicality in this one. I wanted him
to do basically exactly what he did. I thought if
we got too much, there's not a lot left. What
do you think?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, I agree, I think it was the right amount
of everything. I agree they should not touch each other
before Mania. Cody's a super baby face. There's no reason
for him to be picking a dirty fight, and Sena's
playing you know, that greasy, slimy heel, and he's not
gonna want to do it unless there's a payday involved, exactly,
(11:21):
and so there's there's no reason for them to touch
prior to Mania. So it was it was tastefully done
the way it all worked out.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, And a couple of things that I've
forgotten about. Just now that Sena touched on which people
were posting about. When he does come back on March
sixteenth in Brussels, there's going to be a brand new
look for John Cena, a brand new song, and he
touched on him. I'm not giving you a brand new look.
You guys dress like me. I don't dress like you anyway.
This is me. That's me on the song, and that
(11:53):
is my song. It's not your song. I don't need
to change anything. This is who I am. You guys
have hated this and it's me. I'm really glad that
they touched on things that people are talking about.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, it's nice to feel like the IWC exists. I
don't think they should drive anything. I want to make
that very clear.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
If you're booking that way, that is a terrible way
to book, which it doesn't feel like you're doing on this.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
To acknowledge the conversation that is being had makes it
feel that much more real. To know that Cina indirectly
addressed something I said on X That's cool, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, agreed, I'm excited about this. Hey, real quick Instagram.
We are forty five away from our first thousand, kind
of close to that if you wouldn't mind. If you're
not following this yet on Instagram, wrestle Chat podcast, on TikTok,
we are five away, just five away from our first
thousand on TikTok. So if you're not following us on
any of the social media's, or ax is the only
(13:01):
one that's different because it doesn't allow you that many letters.
It's wrestle Chat Pod. Everything else is wrestle Chat podcast.
If you mind give us a follow, you can also
just hit the link if you go to wrestle chat
podcast dot com. Some other stuff we got coming up
for WrestleMania forty one, or at least anticipating Jay and Gunther.
We know we have that as the world title. Especially
you don't want to compare one to the other, but
(13:22):
just excitement in and of itself, I'm not sure the
excitement levels on WrestleMania par at the moment. Where do
you see this going and what do you expect to
happen between now and this time next month?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Michael, Well, well, now I'm not sure because did you
did you hear the breaking news today's h He has
a back injury from carrying the weight of this fun
Did he really post that somebody did not him?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Oh, that's hilarious that somebody did. This is even worse
news now other than having nowhere to go.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, person on X that actually wrote that credit to.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
You, I read it off of this excellent work, excellent one.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
But but here here's the thing. I like jay Uso.
I like Jay, I like his move set, I like
his charisma. This current lane that he's in feels like
it's a little too much Samoan Mojo Raleigh. For me,
(14:35):
it's just like dude comparison, Like it's just like yeah
and Mojo, I thought you were cool too, Like it's
it's just it's like hamsna Yeats World champ Yeat like
it's it's just it's canned and it's predictable. And I
(14:59):
really feel that there's like take the USO penitentiary era
and put a face version on that Superstar Superstar. Now
here's here's the thing I'm gonna acknowledge. I'm a little
bit older. Jay Usso is probably the stuff to a
(15:20):
thirteen year old kid, Like I get that, but when
you're kind of strapping that rocket, because like even go
back to like Sena a perfect example. Sena even in
like like Deepen the Doctor of thug Anomics, he was
never cheesy, like it was over the top, but it
(15:42):
wasn't corny. And I feel like where we've landed with
Jay currently is it's got a little bit of corny
to it. And so it's a really hard matchup with Gunther,
who is this ultra serious heel, very sharp dressed, like
really the antithesis of Cody Rhodes, you know on the
(16:04):
face and heel side, if you think about it, just
the polished heel champion and this thing with Jay for me,
it's just not matching up well.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
And the things that have always made the matches that
Cody Rhodes have has had over the last year that
have really waded into Cody Rhods becoming the star that
he is is the opposition that he's faced every single time,
and it's always been like, you know, right after WrestleMania,
it was the rock him coming out with with what
Cody gave him in his hand and handing that back
(16:36):
and what it was that a lot of speculation about that,
and then every match that he that he had since
then always had had some adversity that he needed to
come over and and it was the what am I
trying to say? It's it was equivalent on the opposite end,
and there hasn't been that for Gunther is spectacular, He's
not being met with the same energy right from Ja. Yes,
(16:57):
Jay is great in and of himself. They it's like
styles clashing when it comes to these two, it will
be a great match. Absolutely, both of them are great wrestlers.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Story, I got so confused because you said styles clashing,
and I went, wait, are we talking about AJ styles?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
That's where AJ got his name from. Yea, the actual
styles clash. But they say that that that is supposed
to make a great feud a style you know, a
great match anyway, or the different styles of the two clashing.
But in this instance, I don't. It feels like they're
on different pages between Jay and Company.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Both guys have lost a little bit of steam in
this feud, and I'm not really sure why. Somebody on
X the other day had a great point and they
said they figured out what made Gunther special far too late,
because when he was the Intercontinental Champion, he was over
over right, and it's because he was wrestling on TV
(17:57):
week in and week out, and assume as as he
won the World Heavyweight Championship, he wasn't on TV as much,
and I think every time he's there it's great. And
then now we're seeing him more on a week to
week basis. And then with Jay, it's to your point,
there's no really, there's nothing to overcome. I mean, if
(18:18):
you look at some of the greatest kind of Royal
Rumble journeys, most of them have something to overcome, to
your point, and in this scenario, there's just there's nothing
to overcome.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, and not to go backwards, but that what all
makes me excited that I think it's probably time that
Cody maybe loses, not to jump ahead, but maybe loses
the title at WrestleMania, because it's time for that next
chasm for him to cross to the same one that
(18:52):
we watched for over a year, what we thought he
was going to get at WrestleMania thirty nine that he
didn't end up getting into WrestleMania forty and the Grand
Canyon he strolled through and fought through to get to
forty and make it happen. I think that that's what
he's going to need again. Now these two guys need
that same thing, whether Jay needs to he won the
(19:15):
Intercontinental title and then lost it and then won the
Royal Rumble, or had a chance to win the world
title at Saturday Night. Saturday Nights made event and lost
that match, but then won the Royal Rumbles. He gets
another chance. It's that storytelling is a little off and
a little odd. Now you like you like to say,
is that I'm not going to jump ahead and I'm
(19:36):
gonna give them the benefit of the doubt, right because
so much the great stuff there and I'm anxious to
see what they do in this one because right now
it's not clicking. Yeah, it's like it feels like it's
you know, some music, You and I both musicians, that
it feels like just we're off with the drummer right
now with those two and as soon as it clicks,
it'll be great.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And again, this is nothing against either one of these guys,
of course, it's just something to your point, something's not there.
But right now, I'm just not hyped going into this.
And the other thing I was thinking kind of while
you were wrapping up there was I think it's really
(20:17):
easy to make these decisions potentially when you're only looking
at T shirt sales, which I'm sure are great for
Jay Uso. He is a prominent figure in the company,
but for whatever reason, it's not there yet. But we've
got a month.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
So we'll see fantasy booking throwing this in here that
something would not that it has to be this person.
I'm just gonna put them in the slot because we've
heard that there's going to be, you know, one last
run at least one last match for Goldberg. I could
see something happening just out of the blue. If this
is match number one on night number one, as as
(20:56):
Jay is coming to the ring, he gets speared through
something by gold Oldberg out of the blue, and Goldberg
takes his place and has something there. Now, I know
they probably want to do a build up that's not
going to happen again. I'm only inserting Goldberg's name in
that place. For something catastrophic to happen before Jay ever
gets to the ring for that match. That would make
(21:16):
something interesting for me. Yeah, I agree, And I think.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Expounding upon the point you just made, you know, I
think it's possible the regime could also be saying, hey,
everything doesn't have to culminate at WrestleMania. Some things could.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Start absolutely completely agree. Now I've had I was going
to say, have similar feelings. I had similar feelings, and
they haven't all gone away, but I had some similar
feelings about Tiffany and Charlotte on our notes. I'm sorry,
I patrician, Tiffy. I'm glad. You know what I meant.
Charlotte and Tiffany Stratton at WrestleMania for the women's WWE
(22:00):
Women's title. This one felt like the Jay and the
Gunther match with kind of leaning the other way Charlotte.
Now you know how I feel about Charlotte. I think
we we've established that here on this podcast. However, if
you just look at it, you go, Okay, yeah, Tiffy
is just not measuring up to watch Charlotte. Until Monday,
(22:21):
I was gonna say, I keep wanting to say Monday night,
that's Monday afternoon for me. So Monday afternoon on Raw
with that pollpart that continued to miss TV and again
came back around that just became more and more brutal
as they went along. I thought that, Okay, I have
some interest. Now there's some fire in Tiffany Stratton to
(22:41):
whoop the queen, and if we can continue that for
the next four weeks and build upon it. I'm gonna
be interested in that match, how about you.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I'm still in a place where I'm just kind of
fundamentally rejecting it. If I'm being honest, the Charlotte Flair
actor is still there for me because what it feels like.
And again, I don't know anything. I'm just going off
of muscle memory from what I've seen for the last decade.
(23:12):
It's gonna come in or Charlotte's gonna come in. It's
gonna be a great match, She's gonna win, and it's
just more Charlotte Flair having another number next to her
name that she doesn't need. She came back, she won
the rumbles, she won a title. Wow, We've seen that
story one hundred times now, and so you know, it's
it's nothing against Charlotte's talent, it's nothing against Tiffany's contributions
(23:36):
to the feud. But at the moment, I'm still in
the place or I'm just like it seems predictable, So
I'm just not in it right now.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Well, and that they need to get somebody, and Tiffany
the most likely individual, someone to the level of Becky
Lynch for Charlotte. If Charlotte is your is your queen
and the women's division, she needs to have somebody, Like
we talk about with all these other ones, you need
to have that opposition, and she right now doesn't have anybody.
If if she's your, you know, your golden goose in
(24:07):
the women's side, you need to build somebody. So why
why not Tiffany get you have the belt on her
right now? I think the excitement with Tiffany was her
cashing in to get that title, right, But there's nobody
else I see behind Tiffany that's any better than where
Tiffany is right now, right and what they put behind.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Her well, and the other thing. From a more global perspective,
there are very, very very few feuds that you can
name that with Charlotte Flair that didn't involve a title. Yeah,
that's very true everybody else on the roster. You look
(24:48):
at people like Sasha and Bailey that just hated each
other because they hated each other. You know, you have
back in the day you had Trician lieda that it
was a It transcended the title because there was other issues.
Charlotte can't carry a storyline without a title being involved.
And that's why it's frustrating. And we've already seen that
from Tiffany Stratton with her work with Nya Jacks. There
(25:11):
was tension between them. Now granted I agree that the
briefcase was a part of it, but they played off
of that dynamic of them being friends. There was a
story within the story, and so again, just to repeat myself,
that's why I can't get on board with it, because
I want Charlotte doesn't need the title anymore. She's the
(25:35):
highest or she has the most accolades of any other
female talent on the roster. Her being in a title
situation is just not necessary.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
And if you have to compare it or given an example,
you can do that with John Cena before right now.
You had John Cena go for a long time with
no title, and even when he did have a title,
it was a secondary title. It was a US title. Well,
he was an Although he had more accolades than anyone
that was in the running for the world title, the
WWE Championship, he wasn't in that picture. He had other
(26:10):
things going on. And I don't know why you can't
have that with Charlotte as well. I don't know what
always has to be about the women's world title. While
that is great, that it doesn't make this story interesting
for anyone I believe. Yeah, we've talked about a few
times before I get there. If you haven't subscribed to
(26:32):
the channel, if you're watching on YouTube, I'd love you
if you did that. If you're listening on the free
iHeartRadio app or Spotify or iHeart Apple podcast, go ahead
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we can also have conversations like these every single week,
and we always invite you to chime in and join
(26:53):
the chat. So drop a comment on the YouTube the
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iHeart don't yet, but you can also go over to
a wrestle chatpodcast dot com and just drop us your
thoughts if you're not watching on YouTube, and let us
know how you feel about all these topics that we've
talked about today. We've hit on a couple of times
(27:15):
the free agents that are still out there, whether it
be from TNA leaving, whether it be from AAW leaving,
and just kind of floating. Anticipation of them coming back
probably hasn't been any more than been any higher for
any two people than Ray Phoenix. And I don't know
what to call it. A call him Alistair Black or
Malachi Black. I guess if he's coming back to ww
(27:37):
you'ld be Malachi, right, And a lot of speculation if
the smoke and the four that came on the screen
on RAW I think actually on Smackdowns where I saw
it first, could that be Malachi coming back to the WWE,
NF so, any speculation on what the four means.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
My initial thought trying to decrypt it is I think
it's going to end up being a date in April,
So I think I think we'll see the four and
then and then the other will come out. But honestly,
I can't fall between the two. Alistair Black being his
WWE name.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Was it Alistair Black? I thought it was Malachi Black.
Malachi Black is outside w w E Okay, got it?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yeah, copy Alistair was his ENNX teen name, Okay, But
I couldn't tell.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I think it could be either.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I think it leans more toward Alistair right now, but
I'm also not as familiar with Ray Phoenix's like branding
and the stuff that like the look he usually goes
for so a lot more.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Luca would be my guess, and I would have thinks
something to do with his brother, who is Penta, right,
I would if they're putting them back together, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
And I would think with all the news that's been
around Ray Phoenix, I would have to think that his
would be more of like a rise showing up rather
than like a forecasted thing. So I'm gonna lean more
toward that. Maybe it's Alistair Black, but it also could
be neither of these people.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
That's very true. It could be neither one of them. Now,
speaking of Pinta, though he announced that he is going
after the Intercontinental Championship, presumably in time for WrestleMania, has
four weeks to build up something there with bron Breaker.
We'll dig into that next week here on the podcast. Now,
let us know what you think, even if you want
(29:31):
to talk about that, hit us up with what you
think about Penta going for the Icy title. Do you
see that coming off a bron Breaker or is this
the beginning of a few that could last for a
week that might be fun. We haven't had one of
those in a little bit. It's always about what goes
up to I like what you said. It could be
a place where things start, and I would like that
for a long run with you talk about styles clashing
(29:53):
and just a monster and bron Breaker and a lucha
and pentas. Styles very different and could be very fun
to watch over the community. So we'll wait and see.
We'll chat about that next week. Anything else we should
hit before we roll out of here, Michael.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
It is still a great time to be a professional
wrestling fan.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Indeed it is. For Michael Cleavin, I'm the ant Man.
We'll see you next week here on the wrestle Chat podcast.
Host
Anthony "The AntMan" Lay
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