February 19, 2025 • 28 mins
This week on WrestleChat Podcast, The AntMan and Michael Glavin break down WWE’s upcoming unsanctioned match between Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn—but do fans actually know what "unsanctioned" means? They dive into its history, from old-school wrestling commissions to classic bouts that defined the stipulation. Plus, WWE and UFC continue to blur the lines with Julius Creed stepping into The Ultimate Fighter—could this be the most natural crossover yet? The guys also discuss the major shake-up in independent wrestling as WWE introduces the ID Championships—a title that will be defended outside of WWE programming! And in case you missed it, LFG: Legends & Future Greats premiered this week, bringing together some of the biggest names in wrestling—Undertaker, Booker T, Mickie James, and Bubba Ray Dudley—to mentor the next generation of superstars. All that, plus WrestleMania speculation, potential WWE-UFC invasion angles, and why you should start paying attention to WWE's LFG series now! Subscribe and join the conversation—it's a great time to be a wrestling fan! #WrestleChatPodcast #KevinOwens #SamiZayn #WWEUFC #EliminationChamber #LFG #ProWrestling Follow the show on Instagram: ➡️ https://www.Instagram.com/WrestleChatPodcast Follow The AntMan: ➡️ https://www.Instagram.com/TheAntMan.co
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know what I'm I'm a little concerned with not concerned.
Concern is probably the wrong word, but like, so we
have this whole Kevin Owens Sammy's Ain match that is
an unsanctioned match. I'm worried that the majority of the
audience doesn't know what sanctioned means, much less what unsanctioned means.
(00:21):
Here's the reason. I remember growing up in World Class
always they would say at the beginning, this bout is
scheduled for fifteen minutes, and it is sanctioned by the
World Class Wrestling Association. And not until they did an
unsanctioned match did I ask my dad. I was like,
I don't even know what that means. One time and
(00:43):
kind of the comparison was, so you have a football
game and you know, ah say high school football game,
and you got refs out there, and you got the band,
and you know, do you pomping circumstance. They run through
the through the banners and go out on the field.
They do a kickoff and do all that stuff. That's
a sanctioned match by the school, the school district. You
(01:04):
and your buddies going out on the exact same football
field on Saturday morning and having a game is an
unsanctioned football game. I was like, I got it, even
at like ten years old when I heard that, I
got it. So if you don't understand what sanctioned means,
I think some people don't know the importance of what
unsanctioned means. Ww's hands are off this match, like it
(01:27):
may be happening in a ring, but it's after hours.
This is when we assume that everybody can leave and
everybody can go home. Just happens to be there, and
we go out there and have a match that there's
not a real ref. Maybe it's And actually I wonder
if they do that. I wonder for this match, if
they just don't have a referee, that might be kind
of cool for a Sammy Zay Kevin Owens unsanctioned. You know,
(01:49):
we presume probably a pretty big beat down happening on
one side or the other on both sides. Maybe you
do it without an a ref because I mean, what's
the point of having a ref if it's unsanctioned.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I think you're exactly right.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
I think that would be super cool because that's that's
always something in the past, Like when when I hear
unsanctioned match. My brain, uh, you know, reaches for the uh.
I think it was triple Eh, Shawn Michael's SummerSlam two
thousand and three.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Okay, they were.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
In an unsanctioned match, and that was one of Shawn's
first back after he was gone with his back injury
and stuff. And to your point, it's always a little
weird because you have an unsanctioned match, but you have
an officiant in.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
The ring right with a with a with a bell
ringing to start the match, and presumably one to end it.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, and and that's that is where it gets weird
because a normal match with pinfaller submission can't necessarily be
self governed because that's when you get into like a
last man standing match or a ladder match where it's
a little more you know, the aren't really as big
of a part of it. But I think you're exactly right.
(03:04):
I will I will say that in terms of people
not knowing, you made a comment about people not knowing
what an unsanctioned match is. I think that's why we
saw a little bit more of an elongated promo segment
between Sammy Zay and Adam Pierce is I think more
than happened in the past. Adam Pierce kind of unrolled
(03:25):
that kind of and kind of laid it out. And
now I was kind of half paying attention at the time,
you know, as as a with being a fan as
long as I have I can kind of half pay
attention and know what's going on and you know, whatever this,
whatever that.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
But you know where to catch the hotspots in it, Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Exactly so.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
But but if you're listening and maybe you don't know
what an unsanctioned match is, maybe he didn't catch the show.
Best thing to do is to go back and watch
Adam Pierce's promo because he's able actually in a he
did really well for as short of a time period
as it was to really explain the nuances behind that well.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
And I think more so is that they don't take
the time to say that it's sanctioned, and to be
to have normal sanctioned matches means we're going to hold
these these matches that are coming up to a certain
set of rules, a certain set of time limits. And
to be honest, we don't really have either one of
those for the most part, in pretty much any match anymore.
(04:25):
Uh you we do, But not like it used to be.
And I don't I'm not one to sit here and
harp on how it used to be. But if you're
gonna they're pull they're actually pulling from something that used
to be, and that being the sanction, What did that
even mean? And to understand that would then lead you
to understand what an unsanctioned one is. I even heard
even heard Bully and dave On on busted open. Uh,
(04:48):
Bully goes it is. Uh, it's the I'm not really
sure what an unsanctioned matched matches. It's just a if
you know what a sanction is, it's the un version
of that, he goes. That's the kind of education you get.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Here on busting over the well.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
And this historically goes to a completely different place and
time because back in the day it was important that
And I don't know what does or does not happen
with this today, but I know I've seen some documentaries
where they talk about this that back in the day,
you had to be a licensed professional wrestler, like and
(05:30):
and to be to have a match sanctioned. I'm assuming
all of the record keeping had to be in place,
and everybody had their licenses and all that type of stuff.
But you can find pictures on the Internet of people
like I think like hul Cogan and Brunos San Martino
and different guys like that, where there's like pictures hanging
out there of their old wrestling licenses. And so I
(05:53):
think this whole topic of sanction also goes back to
that that there might have been a lot of legal
things happening back then that may not happen today because
it's an entertainment product now instead of a sporting product.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Very much so this applies because I just happened to
have one. This is my official for one match only
the Oklahoma Professional Boxing Commission profess professional wrestler Anthony Lay.
(06:27):
This card will expire on six thirty, two thousand and three.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Not allowed to wrestle anymore, and let's go get this updated.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
I guess there like a DMV for for wrestling licenses,
you have to go standard much.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
It was a what I do love about this? Do
you know who Danny Hodge is? No? I don't, Okay,
old legend in professional wrestling and more so in catch
and amateur wrestling. He was the chairman and so his
autograph is at the bottom of this. And but yes,
you would see a shady doctor in a strip mall
(07:07):
that would check if you could touch your toes. He
would check to see if your ankles would pop out
of place, and your knees were fine. And then he
had me do like jumpin jacks. It was something crazy.
And then he goes, okay, cool, pass hands me a
hands me a piece of paper. And then I got
this in the mail about a week later. There you go, Yeah,
(07:30):
that's you're exactly right there, you said, so had I
had a little a little part of that story. Yeah.
Date issued was seven eight, two thousand and two, So dude,
twenty three years old. That out of date. But yeah,
you're right. I mean it was. It was very much
treated as a as a real sport and not sports entertainment.
(07:53):
And come to think of it, when I said that,
they would announce that it was sancient at the beginning.
They would always say, have the National Wrestling Alliance. So
it was the NWA was the one that sanctioned all
of the matches, and it was important for them to
say that at the beginning. All that being said, I
think that this match is going it has the potential
to be a show stealer. These guys just having a
normal match with a ref, with the ringing of the
(08:16):
bell and everything else that goes into a normal wrestling match.
Tear the house down anytime that they take each other on.
You even see some clips here and there on social
media of them wrestling back and Ring of Honor and
how crazy and brutal those were. This one not having
any I mean, I think that either you end the
show and then these two guys come out like aw
(08:37):
does a lights out match. That was the really hot
match between thunder Rosa and Britt Baker for the women's
title back in the day, and where both of them
are just bloody. There's a great picture on a shirt
of Britt Baker with their face is just all bloody
from that match. But that was a lights out, unsanctioned match,
so I guess you can still have a ref, but
(08:58):
I think for this one, it's just the other I
just can't get up. That'd be a great way to
end the match.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's uh, it's it's been really
cool seeing this take shape because I think in the
last couple episodes I mentioned about how well these guys
know each other, but I think what's gonna be fun
about this is the story arc coming into it, because
on times before, the one that I'm remembering most prominently
(09:28):
was when Kevin Owens debuted in NXT and Sammy's Ain
was already there. Kevin Owens came out, turned on him
the whole thing. That's great, that's fun, that's that's awesome.
There's I have no complaints about that. But now we
have this story arc where two years ago they were
main eventing russell Mania, coming out as tag team champions,
(09:51):
and then slowly seeing that degrade over time in the
bloodline uh saga and stuff like that. And and you know,
we've made comments over the last couple of weeks too
that Kevin Owens is doing probably some of the most
realistic heel work that's ever happened in the history of wrestling.
And so not only do we have this long rant
(10:13):
to say, not only do we have their ability to
perform with each other physically, which in any other podcast
that I realized that statement would probably throw some red flags.
Wrestling is good, but now we have the story to
go along with it, and I'm really excited to let
that marinade for another week or two and then to
(10:35):
see that come to fruition because even though there is
a bunch of story to back it up, they've proven
they don't need it. And so how much better is
it going to be when you can perform and have
the story along with it?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah? I agree. Ever, wonder how how would you really
incorporate UFC and WWE together? And well, you take the
guys who have been real wrestlers, real face fighters in
WWE and make them a part of the UFC. Does
see them punk go back and take another round and
trying to do something there? Not quite that, We're going
(11:09):
to leave it to the younger guys, like a guy
named Julius Creed. He joined Team Cormier on the UFC
Ultimate Fighter. DC just named Julius Creed as the coach
of his team on Ultimate Fighter. Now, if you remember
back Ultimate Fighters literally the show that saved the UFC
when they were they were the the you know what
(11:32):
swirling down at the bottom of the toilet. This show
single handedly pulled UFC out of that and put them
on the track to where they are today, a multi
billion dollar company. And that show still really really hot
and it's produced a lot of really great fighters Julius
Creed of Creed Brothers in what is it? Team Alpha?
(11:55):
Is it? What they're called?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
American Ala?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
American Alpha? Thank you? Uh? Part of the legit going
to be working in the UFC as the coach of
DC's teams. So that'll be fun to watch on The
Ultimate Fighter this year. Are you liking this? Uh? This really?
I was gonna say unique, but I would say more
a conventional way of getting a WWE star involved in UFC.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Oh absolutely.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
And I think what's cool is if if it unfolds
naturally the right way, it could result in a push
for American Alpha too. Because if you've got if you've
got a guy that's you know, like that, that has that.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Strong look to him as.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
A coach you know of a UFC team, how do
you not push him on the WWE side too? And
and in storyline, you know, we we saw Chad Gable
tell his his crew like, when I get back, you
guys better have some gold. And I think what I'm
assuming is that's going to be a start for a
big push for American Alpha.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
They've got it the so the two guys.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
And and uh uh.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
They call her the pit Bull.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I know, I'm blanking on her name too. I know
what you're talking about. Originally I was gonna say Maxine
Dude pre but she's not part of that anymore. Yes, no, no, no, no, no, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
But anyway, Ivy Niles, there it is. I knew it
was on my brains.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
But but she's great. I mean her match with who
did she face the other night? Boy, I'm bat in
a thousand to day. Anyway, she's been doing great stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
On Monday or before.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I think it was Monday. Didn't she have a qualifying
match or am I mixing shows up? No?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
She did on Monday. She fought a returning Now I'm
gonna blank on this girl's name.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Was it Dakota Kai?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yes, thank you Dakota.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, great stuff in in that match. I really I
really like both of them, and either one of them
are being used as much as they should be. Maybe
in time, but but American Alpha is great. I love them.
I think they're going to come out pretty clutch here soon.
But wrapping all this up, getting back to the original point, Yes,
this crossover with UFC WWE, I think it's what we
(14:11):
would expect it to be. I think it makes more
sense for WWE to go there than for UFC to
come to WWE. Right now, I think that feels better.
But as they slowly start to mix these waters, this
just this feels good.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, and it's important to mix the right part of
the waters. And I think Kevin Julius Creed legit catch wrestler,
amateur wrestler, he and his brother both great, great amateur wrestlers.
And to see he'll move over, Julius, move over, and
I say move over. He's still going to be on
WWE's He's going to be a coach for Daniel Cormier's
(14:47):
team over there. So that'd be really fun to watch.
And at the right time, it'll be the right person
that somebody from UFC will come over to WWE and
you know, take on someone. And you know, right now,
I think we just immediately think of another guy. But man,
can you think of the next Toronda Rowsey that may
jump over and challenge the women's champion or you know,
Charlotte ends up winning the title at rustle Mania, someone
(15:10):
a legit UFC fighter comes over and challenges the queen.
That'd be that'd be pretty impressive.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I don't want to.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Get too far off track, but do you know what,
I would give definitely at least a kidney, if not
a few other body parts for there to be like
a rehashing of the Invasion Angle WW with.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
The right people deck. Would that be easy to do?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Doesn't have to be the whole brand, doesn't have to
be all in. It can just be five people on
each side or something.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
But I'm going to want to I'm going to add
another wrinkle to that. What if you had like a
not a I was going to say, a reunion, or
not a reunion, but a remake of the Shield with
guys that are that are in the UFC coming over
playing playing bodyguards for Punk or somebody like that. Again,
(16:06):
that'd be kind of cool. Right, We've got not this
next weekend, not this coming a week in the week
after March first, we have the elimination Chamber, and that
just gives us, you know, within a month and a
half of WrestleMania, Jay Usso has now picked his opponent.
It is going to be gun there. And I love how,
you know, I'm kind of looking ahead and kind of
(16:27):
you know, predictive booking or what a fantasy booking. That's
what I was gonna say. I meant to say some
fantasy booking here of how they could do WrestleMania the
past couple of weeks. Oh, and every match has got
to be the main event, right, I think this might
be a cool way of doing this. And see what
you think. I think this is great because you know,
(16:48):
we talked about it in the last episode we did
how it didn't have to be gone through probably would
be and why would we want to see Gunther and
Jay again when Jay couldn't beat him? All that stuff,
But think about this the past few weeks. I don't
Monday they didn't do it, but the past weeks before
they started the show off hot with the entire arena
yeating with jay Uso. I mean even the little encore
(17:10):
that would happen before he'd start speaking, and because they'd
say one more time, one more time, start chanting that.
What if that's how you start a WrestleMania night. You
start with Jayo's in the whole place yeating, and then
Jay wins the world title. That's you walk back through
the curtain and go go beat that.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
No, it's gonna be a great wrestling match. It may
not be the best one on the card, but you
got to get the crowd higher than that, have fun.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yeah, and you're zeroed in on on just the thing
because for years it was what's the main event?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
What's the main event? And then you saw this.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Shift with a lot of WWE's guy going if you
can't be on last, I want to be on first.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
We'll be on first and I and we've.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Seen a lot of great opening matches the last several years.
And I would say that even goes back to the
Vince era, where like even on the tail end of that,
they were doing really good at booking the show with
good opens, and it wasn't always that way, and so
you are dead on that that would just be a
(18:18):
killer way to start. I mean I would take it
a step further and say that needs to start the
whole weekend like that, that number one that needs to
be how it goes? Now who knows? I mean, because
you've got to have your main event for both nights.
So is it a women's title?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Is you know? Who knows?
Speaker 3 (18:38):
They're all they're all five star caliber matchups.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Right, It's WrestleMania. So you're trying to sort straws and
you really can't.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
And but starting that out russe Mania weekend with with
jay us Wu.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
The jay Uzo would be amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
You sent me something. It was Triple H sitting there
with two titles that looked like that they were completely what.
I didn't get a chance to read it before we
jumped on here. What what was that post about?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
They have now?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
So we know that WWE is identifying uh, younger athletes
as a part of their ID program. Sure people, right, yeah, yeah,
people from the independent scene now. To be perfectly transparent
with you, I don't know exactly how all that works.
I don't know if it's a developmental deal. I don't
know if they stay on the indies. I just know
that it's a thing, okay.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
But his post was they actually have WWE Men's and
Women's i D Championship now, which which is interesting and
and the the description was like, I don't remember what
they said how they were going to termine an inaugural champion.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
But that WWE I D Championship for both men and
women is going to be defended in the independence scene.
It's not even going to be on WWE programming. And
so mind absolutely blown because as many amazing things that
have happened over the last couple of years. You know,
we talk about the forbidden door, the the thing, the
(20:13):
partnership with TNA. Over the last couple of years, we
saw Triple eight show up at like Evolve and different
stuff like that. To see this happening ensures not that
there was any doubt, but just reinforces in you know,
six feet of concrete that WWE is not going anywhere
(20:34):
because their hand has reached I don't mean the bottom
as in like a hierarchy, but but it has reached
all the way down to you know, the beginner level,
if you will, and has started to identify people you know,
and and it's it's just awesome and how cool is
(20:56):
it to see a WWE title on the independent scene
that it does doesn't matter, like it's not stuck to
a promotion. You have somebody that can take it to
New Japan, you have somebody that can take.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
It to Evolve or TNA or like Sky's Limit.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
You know what. To me in my mind, what it
makes WWE is so first they identified the the either
territories or schools as ww I ds, and then now
they're going to crown champions in those collectively with these
so those men's and women's that look like there's men's title,
women's title. It really has is starting to establish WWE
(21:35):
as definitively the mothership of wrestling. Yep, so yes, you
may be over here. But well, like I mentioned before
that there was NWA that governed overall of wrestling. It's
not you know, with with monopoly laws and stuff. I
don't think it's it's not going to be that, but
this allows them to do that without having the ownership
(21:56):
of the place. But you own the place when your
title's there.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Do you know what I would give to see a
legitimate and monopoly lawsuit around profession would be awesome.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Well, speaking of along the same lines as ww ID,
I mean speaking of iding the Next Generation. LFG premiered
on AE W I W A n E this week. Yeah,
I don't think it premiered on a W. LFG is
Legends and Future Grades. But don't be fooled. That's just
for TV. It's let's freaking go, you know what that's
(22:31):
the LFG stands for. But four coaches just an impeccable
booker t You have Mickey James, you have Bubba Ray Dudley.
Yes it's Bubba because he's back in WWE, and you
have the undertaker. Some of these guys have been there
a year and then other people have been there a
(22:52):
week a week and you're performing, doing cutting a promo,
actually showing what skills you know in the ring in
front and even Sean Michael said in the very first episode,
I don't know what I would have done if I
had wrestled like this in front of Harley Race As
I was like that just be I'd be scared to death,
(23:15):
you know, and the other.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Should interrupt you in pause there for people don't put
enough stock in like to that statement. Take anything. It's like,
I'm gonna go eat hot dogs with Joey Chestnut. That's terrifying.
You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna go play I'm gonna
go play baseball with Barry Bonds.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
That's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
And he's coaching you to bat and for your first
time ever picking up a baseball bat.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, like, like people do not like the gravity of
the people that you're standing in front of is an
opportunity that you never should have been afforded, and don't
screw it up anyway.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Continue It is a combination, though, and I think that
the Bubba Ray said the best. It's a combination of
what you to be tough enough and America's best talent
or American idol or whatever you take. It's those two
things and you put them together. So you have guys
that are you know, they're all there legit for either
(24:15):
they have already been training or they're coming into training
to be a wrestler. But it's crazy that one of
them is a Vander Holyfield Son who was amazing in
the NFL until he got hurt. He played for the
for the Bagels and for Oh the Eagles. He played
for both of those teams and was a great running back.
(24:36):
And now he's coming over here. And you know, Bullie
Ray gave him his in his first day there, gave
him his first pointer was how what's going to get
you in the door. He's like my dad's name. It's like,
don't shy away from it, don't make it your identity.
But makes make people perk up and listen when you
say I'm a Vander Holyfield Son and then go show
(24:57):
what you can do. And so it's just just really
get in there. Obviously, all those guys are so honest.
You've got the locker room leader with the Undertaker as
one of the coaches, and he's going to be yours.
That's incredible. There is one I can't for the right now.
I've blanked on her name, but she won a gold
medal in the last Olympics in the or in the
twenty twenty Olympics in freestyle wrestling. And you might remember
(25:22):
because she had these big blocky glasses on that she
that she would wear because they liked seeing glass, not
just stylish glasses, and she was very recognizable, had like
the the bare ears, I think is what my daughter
calls them, where their hair is like up on each side.
And so she that's how you know, she was kind
of presented at the Olympics that year and won a
gold medal. Now she's over here and she's really good,
(25:45):
really good, like better than any beginner should be. But
I don't think she has one of these what you
don't need.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
And the cool thing about these shows, if you go
through both iterations of tough, and if you go even
to other WWE competition shows like The Diva's Search back
in the day, right, people do not realize the amount
of superstars that were gathered from those and we're not
just talking about winners. Like if you go back to
(26:17):
every WWE competition show, you're going to see a main
event player somewhere in these competition shows. For instance, I
think Mandy Rose when she was still with the company.
I think she came from the the newer version of
tough Enough and she was a much time. She was
(26:38):
a multiple time NXT champion super Over. People loved her
and so like it feels like it's in a more
WWE content. No, these are literally the people that are
going to be on our screens in five years, and
so pay attention because this is this is your opportunity
to be a wrestling hipster where you're like I saw
(26:58):
them before.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
They it's exactly right. So Sunday nights and here's the deal.
There are fifteen episodes and all of them are ninety
minutes long. That does a lot of content. Ninety minutes long,
fifteen episodes. This can take us the next fourteen weeks
to get through the rest of them. And looking forward
to it because it is a really really good, really
good show, and especially I think when they start cooking,
like they don't even have their coaches yet. I think
(27:20):
only two of them do one guy and one girl,
and so it's going to be very fun to watch
over the next few weeks, and we'll talk about it
as that show progresses here on this podcast. March first
is going to be the Elimination Chamber. We'll talk more
about that show coming up next week here on the podcast,
and anything else we need to hit before you take off.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
It's a great time to be a professional wrestling fan.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Indeed it is for Michael Glavin, I'm the ant Man.
We'll see you next time on the wrestle Chat podcast.
You know what I'm I'm a little concerned with not concerned.
Concern is probably the wrong word, but like, so we
have this whole Kevin Owens Sammy's Ain match that is
an unsanctioned match. I'm worried that the majority of the
audience doesn't know what sanctioned means, much less what unsanctioned means.
(00:21):
Here's the reason. I remember growing up in World Class
always they would say at the beginning, this bout is
scheduled for fifteen minutes, and it is sanctioned by the
World Class Wrestling Association. And not until they did an
unsanctioned match did I ask my dad. I was like,
I don't even know what that means. One time and
(00:43):
kind of the comparison was, so you have a football
game and you know, ah say high school football game,
and you got refs out there, and you got the band,
and you know, do you pomping circumstance. They run through
the through the banners and go out on the field.
They do a kickoff and do all that stuff. That's
a sanctioned match by the school, the school district. You
(01:04):
and your buddies going out on the exact same football
field on Saturday morning and having a game is an
unsanctioned football game. I was like, I got it, even
at like ten years old when I heard that, I
got it. So if you don't understand what sanctioned means,
I think some people don't know the importance of what
unsanctioned means. Ww's hands are off this match, like it
(01:27):
may be happening in a ring, but it's after hours.
This is when we assume that everybody can leave and
everybody can go home. Just happens to be there, and
we go out there and have a match that there's
not a real ref. Maybe it's And actually I wonder
if they do that. I wonder for this match, if
they just don't have a referee, that might be kind
of cool for a Sammy Zay Kevin Owens unsanctioned. You know,
(01:49):
we presume probably a pretty big beat down happening on
one side or the other on both sides. Maybe you
do it without an a ref because I mean, what's
the point of having a ref if it's unsanctioned.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I think you're exactly right.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
I think that would be super cool because that's that's
always something in the past, Like when when I hear
unsanctioned match. My brain, uh, you know, reaches for the uh.
I think it was triple Eh, Shawn Michael's SummerSlam two
thousand and three.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Okay, they were.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
In an unsanctioned match, and that was one of Shawn's
first back after he was gone with his back injury
and stuff. And to your point, it's always a little
weird because you have an unsanctioned match, but you have
an officiant in.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
The ring right with a with a with a bell
ringing to start the match, and presumably one to end it.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, and and that's that is where it gets weird
because a normal match with pinfaller submission can't necessarily be
self governed because that's when you get into like a
last man standing match or a ladder match where it's
a little more you know, the aren't really as big
of a part of it. But I think you're exactly right.
(03:04):
I will I will say that in terms of people
not knowing, you made a comment about people not knowing
what an unsanctioned match is. I think that's why we
saw a little bit more of an elongated promo segment
between Sammy Zay and Adam Pierce is I think more
than happened in the past. Adam Pierce kind of unrolled
(03:25):
that kind of and kind of laid it out. And
now I was kind of half paying attention at the time,
you know, as as a with being a fan as
long as I have I can kind of half pay
attention and know what's going on and you know, whatever this,
whatever that.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
But you know where to catch the hotspots in it, Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Exactly so.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
But but if you're listening and maybe you don't know
what an unsanctioned match is, maybe he didn't catch the show.
Best thing to do is to go back and watch
Adam Pierce's promo because he's able actually in a he
did really well for as short of a time period
as it was to really explain the nuances behind that well.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
And I think more so is that they don't take
the time to say that it's sanctioned, and to be
to have normal sanctioned matches means we're going to hold
these these matches that are coming up to a certain
set of rules, a certain set of time limits. And
to be honest, we don't really have either one of
those for the most part, in pretty much any match anymore.
(04:25):
Uh you we do, But not like it used to be.
And I don't I'm not one to sit here and
harp on how it used to be. But if you're
gonna they're pull they're actually pulling from something that used
to be, and that being the sanction, What did that
even mean? And to understand that would then lead you
to understand what an unsanctioned one is. I even heard
even heard Bully and dave On on busted open. Uh,
(04:48):
Bully goes it is. Uh, it's the I'm not really
sure what an unsanctioned matched matches. It's just a if
you know what a sanction is, it's the un version
of that, he goes. That's the kind of education you get.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Here on busting over the well.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
And this historically goes to a completely different place and
time because back in the day it was important that
And I don't know what does or does not happen
with this today, but I know I've seen some documentaries
where they talk about this that back in the day,
you had to be a licensed professional wrestler, like and
(05:30):
and to be to have a match sanctioned. I'm assuming
all of the record keeping had to be in place,
and everybody had their licenses and all that type of stuff.
But you can find pictures on the Internet of people
like I think like hul Cogan and Brunos San Martino
and different guys like that, where there's like pictures hanging
out there of their old wrestling licenses. And so I
(05:53):
think this whole topic of sanction also goes back to
that that there might have been a lot of legal
things happening back then that may not happen today because
it's an entertainment product now instead of a sporting product.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Very much so this applies because I just happened to
have one. This is my official for one match only
the Oklahoma Professional Boxing Commission profess professional wrestler Anthony Lay.
(06:27):
This card will expire on six thirty, two thousand and three.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Not allowed to wrestle anymore, and let's go get this updated.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
I guess there like a DMV for for wrestling licenses,
you have to go standard much.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
It was a what I do love about this? Do
you know who Danny Hodge is? No? I don't, Okay,
old legend in professional wrestling and more so in catch
and amateur wrestling. He was the chairman and so his
autograph is at the bottom of this. And but yes,
you would see a shady doctor in a strip mall
(07:07):
that would check if you could touch your toes. He
would check to see if your ankles would pop out
of place, and your knees were fine. And then he
had me do like jumpin jacks. It was something crazy.
And then he goes, okay, cool, pass hands me a
hands me a piece of paper. And then I got
this in the mail about a week later. There you go, Yeah,
(07:30):
that's you're exactly right there, you said, so had I
had a little a little part of that story. Yeah.
Date issued was seven eight, two thousand and two, So dude,
twenty three years old. That out of date. But yeah,
you're right. I mean it was. It was very much
treated as a as a real sport and not sports entertainment.
(07:53):
And come to think of it, when I said that,
they would announce that it was sancient at the beginning.
They would always say, have the National Wrestling Alliance. So
it was the NWA was the one that sanctioned all
of the matches, and it was important for them to
say that at the beginning. All that being said, I
think that this match is going it has the potential
to be a show stealer. These guys just having a
normal match with a ref, with the ringing of the
(08:16):
bell and everything else that goes into a normal wrestling match.
Tear the house down anytime that they take each other on.
You even see some clips here and there on social
media of them wrestling back and Ring of Honor and
how crazy and brutal those were. This one not having
any I mean, I think that either you end the
show and then these two guys come out like aw
(08:37):
does a lights out match. That was the really hot
match between thunder Rosa and Britt Baker for the women's
title back in the day, and where both of them
are just bloody. There's a great picture on a shirt
of Britt Baker with their face is just all bloody
from that match. But that was a lights out, unsanctioned match,
so I guess you can still have a ref, but
(08:58):
I think for this one, it's just the other I
just can't get up. That'd be a great way to
end the match.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's uh, it's it's been really
cool seeing this take shape because I think in the
last couple episodes I mentioned about how well these guys
know each other, but I think what's gonna be fun
about this is the story arc coming into it, because
on times before, the one that I'm remembering most prominently
(09:28):
was when Kevin Owens debuted in NXT and Sammy's Ain
was already there. Kevin Owens came out, turned on him
the whole thing. That's great, that's fun, that's that's awesome.
There's I have no complaints about that. But now we
have this story arc where two years ago they were
main eventing russell Mania, coming out as tag team champions,
(09:51):
and then slowly seeing that degrade over time in the
bloodline uh saga and stuff like that. And and you know,
we've made comments over the last couple of weeks too
that Kevin Owens is doing probably some of the most
realistic heel work that's ever happened in the history of wrestling.
And so not only do we have this long rant
(10:13):
to say, not only do we have their ability to
perform with each other physically, which in any other podcast
that I realized that statement would probably throw some red flags.
Wrestling is good, but now we have the story to
go along with it, and I'm really excited to let
that marinade for another week or two and then to
(10:35):
see that come to fruition because even though there is
a bunch of story to back it up, they've proven
they don't need it. And so how much better is
it going to be when you can perform and have
the story along with it?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah? I agree. Ever, wonder how how would you really
incorporate UFC and WWE together? And well, you take the
guys who have been real wrestlers, real face fighters in
WWE and make them a part of the UFC. Does
see them punk go back and take another round and
trying to do something there? Not quite that, We're going
(11:09):
to leave it to the younger guys, like a guy
named Julius Creed. He joined Team Cormier on the UFC
Ultimate Fighter. DC just named Julius Creed as the coach
of his team on Ultimate Fighter. Now, if you remember
back Ultimate Fighters literally the show that saved the UFC
when they were they were the the you know what
(11:32):
swirling down at the bottom of the toilet. This show
single handedly pulled UFC out of that and put them
on the track to where they are today, a multi
billion dollar company. And that show still really really hot
and it's produced a lot of really great fighters Julius
Creed of Creed Brothers in what is it? Team Alpha?
(11:55):
Is it? What they're called?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
American Ala?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
American Alpha? Thank you? Uh? Part of the legit going
to be working in the UFC as the coach of
DC's teams. So that'll be fun to watch on The
Ultimate Fighter this year. Are you liking this? Uh? This really?
I was gonna say unique, but I would say more
a conventional way of getting a WWE star involved in UFC.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Oh absolutely.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
And I think what's cool is if if it unfolds
naturally the right way, it could result in a push
for American Alpha too. Because if you've got if you've
got a guy that's you know, like that, that has that.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Strong look to him as.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
A coach you know of a UFC team, how do
you not push him on the WWE side too? And
and in storyline, you know, we we saw Chad Gable
tell his his crew like, when I get back, you
guys better have some gold. And I think what I'm
assuming is that's going to be a start for a
big push for American Alpha.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
They've got it the so the two guys.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
And and uh uh.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
They call her the pit Bull.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I know, I'm blanking on her name too. I know
what you're talking about. Originally I was gonna say Maxine
Dude pre but she's not part of that anymore. Yes, no, no, no, no, no, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
But anyway, Ivy Niles, there it is. I knew it
was on my brains.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
But but she's great. I mean her match with who
did she face the other night? Boy, I'm bat in
a thousand to day. Anyway, she's been doing great stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
On Monday or before.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I think it was Monday. Didn't she have a qualifying
match or am I mixing shows up? No?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
She did on Monday. She fought a returning Now I'm
gonna blank on this girl's name.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Was it Dakota Kai?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yes, thank you Dakota.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, great stuff in in that match. I really I
really like both of them, and either one of them
are being used as much as they should be. Maybe
in time, but but American Alpha is great. I love them.
I think they're going to come out pretty clutch here soon.
But wrapping all this up, getting back to the original point, Yes,
this crossover with UFC WWE, I think it's what we
(14:11):
would expect it to be. I think it makes more
sense for WWE to go there than for UFC to
come to WWE. Right now, I think that feels better.
But as they slowly start to mix these waters, this
just this feels good.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, and it's important to mix the right part of
the waters. And I think Kevin Julius Creed legit catch wrestler,
amateur wrestler, he and his brother both great, great amateur wrestlers.
And to see he'll move over, Julius, move over, and
I say move over. He's still going to be on
WWE's He's going to be a coach for Daniel Cormier's
(14:47):
team over there. So that'd be really fun to watch.
And at the right time, it'll be the right person
that somebody from UFC will come over to WWE and
you know, take on someone. And you know, right now,
I think we just immediately think of another guy. But man,
can you think of the next Toronda Rowsey that may
jump over and challenge the women's champion or you know,
Charlotte ends up winning the title at rustle Mania, someone
(15:10):
a legit UFC fighter comes over and challenges the queen.
That'd be that'd be pretty impressive.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I don't want to.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Get too far off track, but do you know what,
I would give definitely at least a kidney, if not
a few other body parts for there to be like
a rehashing of the Invasion Angle WW with.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
The right people deck. Would that be easy to do?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Doesn't have to be the whole brand, doesn't have to
be all in. It can just be five people on
each side or something.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
But I'm going to want to I'm going to add
another wrinkle to that. What if you had like a
not a I was going to say, a reunion, or
not a reunion, but a remake of the Shield with
guys that are that are in the UFC coming over
playing playing bodyguards for Punk or somebody like that. Again,
(16:06):
that'd be kind of cool. Right, We've got not this
next weekend, not this coming a week in the week
after March first, we have the elimination Chamber, and that
just gives us, you know, within a month and a
half of WrestleMania, Jay Usso has now picked his opponent.
It is going to be gun there. And I love how,
you know, I'm kind of looking ahead and kind of
(16:27):
you know, predictive booking or what a fantasy booking. That's
what I was gonna say. I meant to say some
fantasy booking here of how they could do WrestleMania the
past couple of weeks. Oh, and every match has got
to be the main event, right, I think this might
be a cool way of doing this. And see what
you think. I think this is great because you know,
(16:48):
we talked about it in the last episode we did
how it didn't have to be gone through probably would
be and why would we want to see Gunther and
Jay again when Jay couldn't beat him? All that stuff,
But think about this the past few weeks. I don't
Monday they didn't do it, but the past weeks before
they started the show off hot with the entire arena
yeating with jay Uso. I mean even the little encore
(17:10):
that would happen before he'd start speaking, and because they'd
say one more time, one more time, start chanting that.
What if that's how you start a WrestleMania night. You
start with Jayo's in the whole place yeating, and then
Jay wins the world title. That's you walk back through
the curtain and go go beat that.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
No, it's gonna be a great wrestling match. It may
not be the best one on the card, but you
got to get the crowd higher than that, have fun.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yeah, and you're zeroed in on on just the thing
because for years it was what's the main event?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
What's the main event? And then you saw this.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Shift with a lot of WWE's guy going if you
can't be on last, I want to be on first.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
We'll be on first and I and we've.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Seen a lot of great opening matches the last several years.
And I would say that even goes back to the
Vince era, where like even on the tail end of that,
they were doing really good at booking the show with
good opens, and it wasn't always that way, and so
you are dead on that that would just be a
(18:18):
killer way to start. I mean I would take it
a step further and say that needs to start the
whole weekend like that, that number one that needs to
be how it goes? Now who knows? I mean, because
you've got to have your main event for both nights.
So is it a women's title?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Is you know? Who knows?
Speaker 3 (18:38):
They're all they're all five star caliber matchups.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Right, It's WrestleMania. So you're trying to sort straws and
you really can't.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
And but starting that out russe Mania weekend with with
jay us Wu.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
The jay Uzo would be amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
You sent me something. It was Triple H sitting there
with two titles that looked like that they were completely what.
I didn't get a chance to read it before we
jumped on here. What what was that post about?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
They have now?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
So we know that WWE is identifying uh, younger athletes
as a part of their ID program. Sure people, right, yeah, yeah,
people from the independent scene now. To be perfectly transparent
with you, I don't know exactly how all that works.
I don't know if it's a developmental deal. I don't
know if they stay on the indies. I just know
that it's a thing, okay.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
But his post was they actually have WWE Men's and
Women's i D Championship now, which which is interesting and
and the the description was like, I don't remember what
they said how they were going to termine an inaugural champion.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
But that WWE I D Championship for both men and
women is going to be defended in the independence scene.
It's not even going to be on WWE programming. And
so mind absolutely blown because as many amazing things that
have happened over the last couple of years. You know,
we talk about the forbidden door, the the thing, the
(20:13):
partnership with TNA. Over the last couple of years, we
saw Triple eight show up at like Evolve and different
stuff like that. To see this happening ensures not that
there was any doubt, but just reinforces in you know,
six feet of concrete that WWE is not going anywhere
(20:34):
because their hand has reached I don't mean the bottom
as in like a hierarchy, but but it has reached
all the way down to you know, the beginner level,
if you will, and has started to identify people you know,
and and it's it's just awesome and how cool is
(20:56):
it to see a WWE title on the independent scene
that it does doesn't matter, like it's not stuck to
a promotion. You have somebody that can take it to
New Japan, you have somebody that can take.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
It to Evolve or TNA or like Sky's Limit.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
You know what. To me in my mind, what it
makes WWE is so first they identified the the either
territories or schools as ww I ds, and then now
they're going to crown champions in those collectively with these
so those men's and women's that look like there's men's title,
women's title. It really has is starting to establish WWE
(21:35):
as definitively the mothership of wrestling. Yep, so yes, you
may be over here. But well, like I mentioned before
that there was NWA that governed overall of wrestling. It's
not you know, with with monopoly laws and stuff. I
don't think it's it's not going to be that, but
this allows them to do that without having the ownership
(21:56):
of the place. But you own the place when your
title's there.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Do you know what I would give to see a
legitimate and monopoly lawsuit around profession would be awesome.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Well, speaking of along the same lines as ww ID,
I mean speaking of iding the Next Generation. LFG premiered
on AE W I W A n E this week. Yeah,
I don't think it premiered on a W. LFG is
Legends and Future Grades. But don't be fooled. That's just
for TV. It's let's freaking go, you know what that's
(22:31):
the LFG stands for. But four coaches just an impeccable
booker t You have Mickey James, you have Bubba Ray Dudley.
Yes it's Bubba because he's back in WWE, and you
have the undertaker. Some of these guys have been there
a year and then other people have been there a
(22:52):
week a week and you're performing, doing cutting a promo,
actually showing what skills you know in the ring in
front and even Sean Michael said in the very first episode,
I don't know what I would have done if I
had wrestled like this in front of Harley Race As
I was like that just be I'd be scared to death,
(23:15):
you know, and the other.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Should interrupt you in pause there for people don't put
enough stock in like to that statement. Take anything. It's like,
I'm gonna go eat hot dogs with Joey Chestnut. That's terrifying.
You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna go play I'm gonna
go play baseball with Barry Bonds.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
That's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
And he's coaching you to bat and for your first
time ever picking up a baseball bat.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, like, like people do not like the gravity of
the people that you're standing in front of is an
opportunity that you never should have been afforded, and don't
screw it up anyway.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Continue It is a combination, though, and I think that
the Bubba Ray said the best. It's a combination of
what you to be tough enough and America's best talent
or American idol or whatever you take. It's those two
things and you put them together. So you have guys
that are you know, they're all there legit for either
(24:15):
they have already been training or they're coming into training
to be a wrestler. But it's crazy that one of
them is a Vander Holyfield Son who was amazing in
the NFL until he got hurt. He played for the
for the Bagels and for Oh the Eagles. He played
for both of those teams and was a great running back.
(24:36):
And now he's coming over here. And you know, Bullie
Ray gave him his in his first day there, gave
him his first pointer was how what's going to get
you in the door. He's like my dad's name. It's like,
don't shy away from it, don't make it your identity.
But makes make people perk up and listen when you
say I'm a Vander Holyfield Son and then go show
(24:57):
what you can do. And so it's just just really
get in there. Obviously, all those guys are so honest.
You've got the locker room leader with the Undertaker as
one of the coaches, and he's going to be yours.
That's incredible. There is one I can't for the right now.
I've blanked on her name, but she won a gold
medal in the last Olympics in the or in the
twenty twenty Olympics in freestyle wrestling. And you might remember
(25:22):
because she had these big blocky glasses on that she
that she would wear because they liked seeing glass, not
just stylish glasses, and she was very recognizable, had like
the the bare ears, I think is what my daughter
calls them, where their hair is like up on each side.
And so she that's how you know, she was kind
of presented at the Olympics that year and won a
gold medal. Now she's over here and she's really good,
(25:45):
really good, like better than any beginner should be. But
I don't think she has one of these what you
don't need.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
And the cool thing about these shows, if you go
through both iterations of tough, and if you go even
to other WWE competition shows like The Diva's Search back
in the day, right, people do not realize the amount
of superstars that were gathered from those and we're not
just talking about winners. Like if you go back to
(26:17):
every WWE competition show, you're going to see a main
event player somewhere in these competition shows. For instance, I
think Mandy Rose when she was still with the company.
I think she came from the the newer version of
tough Enough and she was a much time. She was
(26:38):
a multiple time NXT champion super Over. People loved her
and so like it feels like it's in a more
WWE content. No, these are literally the people that are
going to be on our screens in five years, and
so pay attention because this is this is your opportunity
to be a wrestling hipster where you're like I saw
(26:58):
them before.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
They it's exactly right. So Sunday nights and here's the deal.
There are fifteen episodes and all of them are ninety
minutes long. That does a lot of content. Ninety minutes long,
fifteen episodes. This can take us the next fourteen weeks
to get through the rest of them. And looking forward
to it because it is a really really good, really
good show, and especially I think when they start cooking,
like they don't even have their coaches yet. I think
(27:20):
only two of them do one guy and one girl,
and so it's going to be very fun to watch
over the next few weeks, and we'll talk about it
as that show progresses here on this podcast. March first
is going to be the Elimination Chamber. We'll talk more
about that show coming up next week here on the podcast,
and anything else we need to hit before you take off.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
It's a great time to be a professional wrestling fan.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Indeed it is for Michael Glavin, I'm the ant Man.
We'll see you next time on the wrestle Chat podcast.
Host
Anthony "The AntMan" Lay
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