December 13, 2023 • 21 mins
This week on WWF Jeff and I speak with WWE SmackDown superstar Santos Escobar, the former leader of Legado Del Fantasma and a former NXT Cruiserweight Champion. Escobar shares his journey from being a second-generation luchador in Mexico to becoming one of the most dominant and charismatic wrestlers in WWE.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Now you're made events Introducing the hosts are Wrestling.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
With Freddy, Chef Died and of Fredys.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Junior, Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to a brand new episode
of Wrestling with Freddy Wrestling with Friends. We're not going
to do any news because we have a very special
guest today and we're going to get right to it.
But just before anything else, I want you to know
how awesome our producer and this show thinks you are.
(00:32):
This is the introduction that our producer wrote. Here we
go listen to this. This is god Mode Today. We
have a charismatic and skilled professional wrestler who's made a
significant impact in the world of WWE. With an impressive
blend of technical prowess, in ring ability, and a captivating presence,
he has established himself as a noteworthy figure in WWE.
(00:55):
Hailing from Mexico, he embodies the rich tradition of Lucha
libre while bringing his unique style island persona to the
global stage of sports entertainment. He made his mark in
WWE as the leader of the faction known as Legado
del Fantasma, displaying not only his wrestling skills but also
his leadership qualities beyond his in ring accomplishments. He exudes
confidence in charisma, making him a compelling figure both inside
(01:18):
and outside the Squared Circle. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to
the show. Santos Escobar, sir. That's that's like documentarian style
right there. How are you, sir, Good to see you.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I'm super happy, Ermano, Freddy Carnal, thank you, Jeff, thank
you for having me.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
On the show.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Like I said before, I appreciate the opportunities. This is
a unique opportunity for me to speak to my people,
and I just cherished this moment as they afford this
chance for mihente out there to see what's underneath the
character they see on TV.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Well, this is a big opportunity for us too, So
the feeling is one hundred percent mutual. I want to
get right into this and I'd like to start off
on a deeper note and maybe we'll lighten up as
we go. You know, my father was in show business
before me, and he passed away a long time ago,
but his legend and the shoes that he left for
me to fill were massive in size, and I spent
(02:19):
my life trying to make sure that I walked the
right path. Your father walked this path before you as
El Fantasma, and I'm just wondering what legacy means to you.
What kind of pressure that is? Do you thrive on
that pressure? Do you create it yourself? Was it placed
upon you all those things? If you could just kind
(02:40):
of talk me through what it's like to follow in
your father's footsteps, because it's no easy task.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Well, it was all of the evap Actually, legato means legacy,
and that's why Lego Fantasma came about in WW. I
thought it was very important for me to portray what
my real legacy was, what my real legado was, and
very straightforward Legado del fantasma, which is a legacy of
my dad. And my dad still does his think because
(03:07):
you know, once you become a luchador, a wrestler, a
sports and retainer, however you want to call it, you
will never stop being it. You'll keep doing it till
the wheels come up. And he just had a show
in Atlanta like two months ago, and he's doing autograph signings,
appearances and whatnot. And I'm so happy he still does
that because it's been not just my hero, my instructor,
(03:31):
my friend, my executioner sometimes early on in my career.
I've been doing this for twenty three years now. I'm
going on my twenty fourth year next year. He's always
been so hard on me, like it's critique since I
was a kid, and one of the things that this
is personal, but it is the truth. You know how
(03:51):
in lucha lib you inherit your family's name, your family's
tradition whatever. My dad did not thought I was tough
enough to carry on with this legacy early on, and
he gave his name to someone else, my cousin and
that my brothers.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
That made me just go ballistic because.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
I realized that this life of always trying to prove
yourself with yourself with whoever you see in the mirror,
it's also the same with your family. Much to my surprise,
this happened, and I had to work my behind off
just to prove to him, because at the beginning I
didn't even want to be the son of a phantasma anymore.
(04:37):
I said like, Okay, that's not going to happen, but
I'm gonna prove to you. Not only am I tough
enough and I can have your name out there, I'm
going to become a stable name on my own, and
I started doing it on my own. My first three
years were as a top secret. That was that was
my wrestling name, top secret. I just kept doing it,
(05:01):
and eventually my dad was We would coexist in the
same shows. He would be in the main event and
I would be, you know, just the first match, which
in the US, by the way, it's different. Three of
the most important positions you can have is opening the show,
crossover or main event. Yeah, those are three important positions
(05:23):
that do you get in the US. Not in Mexico,
my friends, not in Mexico. In Mexico, it's by order
and you have to climb that hierarchy and eventually get
to the main event.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
That's how it works.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
It's like old school boxing. You start with the small guys,
work your way up to the champions. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
So there was instances way back when when we would
be on the same show and I would be home
three hours before he arrived because he was on the
main event. But it was just this fire inside me
that was ignited when that happened, and eventually he came
around and I came around too. Because wrestling, sports entertainment,
(06:02):
lucha libre is so hard that eventually you realize I
know where he's coming from. I know he doesn't want
me to embarrass whatever he did for forty years and
still does. And I that sang in and I understood.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
That's that's what I was gonna follow up with. And Jeff,
then I'll let you jump in. Do you think he
did that to you on purpose to motivate you sometimes
or do you think that's just the way he was?
Speaker 4 (06:25):
No?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
No, I think he was legit. He he didn't thought
I was. I was ready for this, wow, man, but
I made it. And then you talk about legacy because
everyone knew he was my dad, and he's an important
figure in Mexico.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
So everyone would try to test me. Everyone would try to,
you know.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Like realize that Okay, they want to find out are
you for real?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Let's see what you got?
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Or he had beef with people from thirty years ago,
and I would be the one to solve the situation,
you know.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Like, So it was hard. It was really hard to
grow up in that environment.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Then he became the Commissioner in Mexico, which is an
even higher position, and that was even harder for me.
But by then I was tough, tough enough to go
through whatever, and it was it was hard, it was
hard to climb to start them in Mexico, and then
eventually it was always my dream to come to WWE.
I gotta be honest, And there's a vivid, a very
(07:24):
vivid memory have I was with my dad watching TV
and it was Seawn Michael's and Triple H on TV
what life is and how I became who I am
and how I worked with them, the way I've worked
with them, that's just destiny. I don't know how that happened,
but it was them who inspired me. And I said
to my dad when I was a kid and I
(07:44):
was told him that's what I want to do there
with them, and he just said, go for it, do
whatever it takes to do it. And of course some
years afterwards he denied me the pretending to be his uh,
the follower of the steps.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
But that's just how a lot of plans. You know,
it's never the way you want it.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
It's never the way you plan it, but it's always
if you have a vision and your vision is clear,
you'll get there.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Go ahead, Jeff, I know you want to jump in there.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Yeah, I'm a big fan Sanchos.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
One thing That's one thing on this show I don't
shut up about as the wrestling needs. We need more
giants and we need more louchas. That's all I That's
all I talk about. So I'm a huge happy to
have you on the thing. Why don't you steal your
dad's name. You should be Fantasma.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Just steal it.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Say I'm taking it, dude, and I'm taking the mask
and this is.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Now now now what now? What daddy?
Speaker 1 (08:45):
The ultimate heel move, that's what.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
No, No, Santa is good.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
I was a heel for a while in that household fun. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
Oh, here's a here's a question that like marks like
me wonder you know when when we get to actually
get to be in your house or apartment or wherever
you are right now. I always one of the things
like you've won a ton of things, thank you.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
But there's the thing is you, guys, you win these
things as you go. You're in Lucha forever.
Speaker 6 (09:16):
You you've won the you know, the n XT cruiser weight,
You've you've got things that you that you've a comp
and now, how do one do wrestlers keep a belt
from every time they win or or where do they
keep all this stuff? When they move around, you take
photos of it and then.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Give the belt.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
But how does it work. Where do you keep all
these championships and trophies and belts.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, yeah, you get to keep one, and I have
my trophy room back there, so I have all all
the belts I've ever obtained in my career.
Speaker 6 (09:45):
That must mean helping movers or helping wrestlers move, must
be a real pain in the ass.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Oh yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
It is because because if you're a veteran or on
your way to becoming a veteran, you will have your
team at home because you want to keep everything under control.
And so when you move, it's down to the floor
of the gym, all the you know, the.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Stuff you got there, your frame pictures. It's hard.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
That must be. Imagine helping the rock move.
Speaker 6 (10:15):
He's got all those chains and treadmills and belts, this chains.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
Pancake batter.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Hey is the trophy room and the gym the same room?
Are you looking at championships while you work out?
Speaker 4 (10:28):
No, it's a different.
Speaker 5 (10:30):
Your uncle was a wrestler too, right, Santos.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yeah, and it was my cousin who got the name,
not me.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I'm gonna go lift as soon as we finish me too,
let's let's talk storyline. So look, I'll be honest, man,
I'm biased. You've you've been in my home, we've broken
bread together, You've met my wife, my children, So I'm
on your side, even if you are breaking heroes knees. Okay,
what do you see as your future in the upcoming year?
(10:59):
Now that this year's coming to a close in the
new year, where do you see you going? What do
you see you building as far as your legacy?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Well, first of all, I think it's important to master
your instrument in what we do. Specifically, you got to
be good at cutting promos. Why because it's important to
share whatever it is, a storyline, whatever is you're feeling,
with the audiences and so that they can relate or not.
(11:28):
But more importantly, understand what you're trying to do out there,
which is why I did what I did in La
Hollywood and learn train my acting become better at it.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Of course I do not have the pen. I do
not write the storylines.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
But what I can do, and I've been trying to
do and I will keep on doing, is get myself better,
keep learning, keep growing, keep becoming a better instrument so
that when they write these things, I'm there and I
haven't missed one important show in the year, and this
(12:02):
is my first year on the main roster, so I'm
just I'm thankful.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I am.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I hope that I get more, but I'm already doing
a lot of stuff that I wasn't doing six months ago.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
They're They're giving me a lot of freedom.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
And all this effort that I'm putting into it, it's
paying off, and I'm just glad that it's happening right now.
The storyline is what it is, and I love it.
I have the opportunity to show more of what I
got and hopefully we'll get to wrestle Mania.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah. I've been watching you grow so quickly. You know.
We only have so much time on the show, so
we couldn't watch every single wrestling promotions show out there,
so we kind of stuck to Raw and SmackDown. But
my introduction to you, and a lot of people's introduction
was the World Cup, where we watched you and Ricochet
put on a match that I didn't know even existed,
(12:58):
Like it was so what the two of you were
doing was magical. And then I learned that you two
have a history, and I don't want to speak on
other promotions, but you two have had a history. Like
you said, you've been doing this twenty three years. Was yeah, okay, cool,
we can say it. Oh, I'm glad you guys had
a history. I'd like to talk about that match in particular,
(13:22):
if memory serves you, and the type of story that
you guys were telling, because it, to me was like
a Match of the Year contender.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
I think he texted me or something.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I remember that I sent you a message.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
But but this is important Treddie, because we shared the
ring so many times in lu Chanderground and we've always
had great chemistry. And he left lu Chander Ground before me,
and then he went through a very rough time because
he couldn't compete.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Then he started competing and doing his thing. I went
through my own you know.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Situation there, finally got out of my contract and then
it started competing. But I did it first an NXC,
just like you did. Eventually it was going to happen
and we would see each other, you know, in different
events WrestleMania, because I was doing Standing Deliver and he
would be doing WrestleMania stuff and we'd be like, hey,
we're going to get to it.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
One day. That day came and I remembered, and this is.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Very important to both of us, I think, because it
was the main event at SmackDown, and i'd been I'd
been there for two months, three months at tops, so
it wasn't like I was doing it for a year,
and then I eventually made it to the main event.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I was.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
I got the opportunity. So Triple H said to us,
all right, guys. He pulled this aside and he said,
this is it. No handcuffs, Just give me three segments
of the best that you can do, and then in
the future when you're main eventing, no one's going to
(14:58):
say why.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
So I know it's a lot.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
It's on you, but I did what I had to do,
and now you're there, you go out there and tear it.
And that's what we did.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, man, you guys killed it. Jeff, I know we're
getting close on time, so I'll let you close this
out if you got something else.
Speaker 6 (15:16):
Oh yeah, this one's gonna make him a little nervous
right here.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
So here's the thing.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
Me and my buddy BRENTT. Tobler, we're both stand up comedians,
and what we like to do is when we go
when we go to the clubs, we always say to ours,
we say to the bookers and the owners and the managers,
because comedy is similar to wrestling in a lot of ways.
It is the road life and the things, and so
we always say who's the worst, who's the best? And
so they always go, we had so and so on
(15:42):
here he's a real jerk and a drunk, or oh,
this guy is awesome and we love them. So in
your experience of wrestling, who's a guy or gal in
wrestling that you're like, dude, I just love this person.
There my ride or die, they're the best? And then
if you will who do you just go?
Speaker 4 (15:58):
I'd hate that guy? So, so, who's the best?
Speaker 5 (16:01):
Who's the worst?
Speaker 7 (16:02):
Santos Well, to be very honest, I don't really hate nobody.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
I try to. I gotta be doing this for a
long time.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
So I used to hate people, but it was wrong
because this is a business and you have to treat
it as such. And I know it involves a lot
of passion, a lot of real emotions, a lot of
real feelings, but at the core, it is a business
and you have to treat it as such. And sometimes
people rubbed you the wrong way, But that doesn't mean
you gotta hate.
Speaker 6 (16:35):
So you hate dragonly, I get it all right, that's fair,
it's stupid, just kidding.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
The new North American Champion by the.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Way, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
Who he's the best?
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Then he's a guy.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Who's who you think?
Speaker 6 (16:50):
Is it going to be a big star or is
it just a good person or something somebody vouched for?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Dragon is going to be a Dragon Lee is going
to be a big star. I think that it's pretty
obvious that he's.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Got something going on.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Yeah, he's been on the main roster for less than
two months. He already had these first one on one
premium live events.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
You had such a crazy tach with him, dude, it.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Was like, yeah, you lazy chemistry.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
You refuse to engage in a lucha or style. For
the first few minutes of the match, it was just
like yep, it was almost deserve it. And then when
you gave it to him, you gave it to so
hard it was awesome.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
That's important to do because you know this. It is Freddy.
I was going to tell you, Prince, you know this, Freddy.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
You know this jet If you see Toulucha guys, and
Triple A said it in the conference in the press
conference afterwards, Tulucha guys that bring more than just being
Tuluca guys.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
That's what I wanted. That was my aim, that was
my vision.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
And I know the urge is there to if you
have twelve to fifteen minutes, just go out and do
crazy stuff.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
But the truth about this is if you stay Luca,
you say Luca.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
And I want to create a hybrid much like we
did it in Luca Underground, most like we did someplace
in other places, you know, an impact back then. I
try to bring my style with the American style so
that anyone that watches the show will connect and we'll
understand what I'm trying to do. And also because I
want to work with Randy, I want to work with Roman,
(18:24):
I want to work with everyone out there, and keeping
myself in a box is not going to help me.
So I needed to portray this. I needed to share
this vision and Dragon lead he got it.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
If you do wrestle Randy Orton, you got to give
him one for me because he jacked my backup when
I hosted Monday nightra on a podcast. Granted it was
my fault, but I need some payback. I need.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
It won't be easy, It won't be easy.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
He's huge right now. I might end up getting one
for my own, but I'll do it for you, bro.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Think you bet now? I noticed the Elm Street sign
back there. Are you a horror fan or do you
just like pain?
Speaker 3 (19:05):
No?
Speaker 4 (19:05):
I am, I am. We're horror fans in this family.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
What is your favorite or maybe you don't have a
favorite because there's so many great ones. But what's one
that you like to talk about, that that you always
have to talk about when you're with friends talking horror movies?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
The two of my my my two most important movies
are that I was really scared when I was a
kid was Chucky on the Elm Street.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Because I was I was a little kid, and I
would literally think that I was on one corner of
the bed or the other corner of the because I
would think that Freddy was gonna just come out of
my you know that was or I would stay really
still because I would feel like, you know, Chucky's a
little step.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
Kids for real.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
But then kids love yeah. But then afterwards I.
Speaker 6 (19:50):
Was saying, kids love Chucky because he always said you
always cursed a lot. You would always say, like shit
and beat he was. He would always curse. And remember,
as a.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Kid, Spanish, the Spanish dub is dope on Chucky.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
The Spanish is so good. It's so good. But you
know what's funny to me that kids nowadays don't see
it as scary as I used to them.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
It's when kids told know what you did last summer.
They're like, that movie's so funny, and I'm like, ah,
that's kind of an insult.
Speaker 7 (20:19):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
We worked really aren't on that, but right it was.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
It was.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
It was scary.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
And back then, I mean going to parties and being
in the first year of college or whatever, you would
relate to those movies. You know, like after after party,
the lady is gonna walk by myself. Now I'll walk
with you. I don't want nothing to happen to you. You know. Yeah,
like like you would relate. But nowadays kids are in
(20:43):
a different dimension. I must, I must say because to me,
for example, the Exorcists, for example, it was one of
the movies that I really liked that enjoy Amen.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, the omen that's a great one too. You know,
people thought the Exorcist was real when that ship came out.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
That's how much fun or around it was. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I think that's why wrestlers like horror so much, because
it's all about tricking the audience into making it real
just for that moment and suspending that disbelief. Listen, we're
gonna get into this and more stuff on the Deeper
Dive on tomorrow show, which is Thursday, unsanctioned Thursday. So
I want to thank all of you for listening. Santos
Anko in anywhere, thank you for listening. See you tomorrow.
This was Wrestling with Freddy. This has been a production
(21:29):
of Iheart'smichael Toura podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Now you're made events Introducing the hosts are Wrestling.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
With Freddy, Chef Died and of Fredys.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Junior, Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to a brand new episode
of Wrestling with Freddy Wrestling with Friends. We're not going
to do any news because we have a very special
guest today and we're going to get right to it.
But just before anything else, I want you to know
how awesome our producer and this show thinks you are.
(00:32):
This is the introduction that our producer wrote. Here we
go listen to this. This is god Mode Today. We
have a charismatic and skilled professional wrestler who's made a
significant impact in the world of WWE. With an impressive
blend of technical prowess, in ring ability, and a captivating presence,
he has established himself as a noteworthy figure in WWE.
(00:55):
Hailing from Mexico, he embodies the rich tradition of Lucha
libre while bringing his unique style island persona to the
global stage of sports entertainment. He made his mark in
WWE as the leader of the faction known as Legado
del Fantasma, displaying not only his wrestling skills but also
his leadership qualities beyond his in ring accomplishments. He exudes
confidence in charisma, making him a compelling figure both inside
(01:18):
and outside the Squared Circle. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to
the show. Santos Escobar, sir. That's that's like documentarian style
right there. How are you, sir, Good to see you.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I'm super happy, Ermano, Freddy Carnal, thank you, Jeff, thank
you for having me.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
On the show.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Like I said before, I appreciate the opportunities. This is
a unique opportunity for me to speak to my people,
and I just cherished this moment as they afford this
chance for mihente out there to see what's underneath the
character they see on TV.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Well, this is a big opportunity for us too, So
the feeling is one hundred percent mutual. I want to
get right into this and I'd like to start off
on a deeper note and maybe we'll lighten up as
we go. You know, my father was in show business
before me, and he passed away a long time ago,
but his legend and the shoes that he left for
me to fill were massive in size, and I spent
(02:19):
my life trying to make sure that I walked the
right path. Your father walked this path before you as
El Fantasma, and I'm just wondering what legacy means to you.
What kind of pressure that is? Do you thrive on
that pressure? Do you create it yourself? Was it placed
upon you all those things? If you could just kind
(02:40):
of talk me through what it's like to follow in
your father's footsteps, because it's no easy task.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Well, it was all of the evap Actually, legato means legacy,
and that's why Lego Fantasma came about in WW. I
thought it was very important for me to portray what
my real legacy was, what my real legado was, and
very straightforward Legado del fantasma, which is a legacy of
my dad. And my dad still does his think because
(03:07):
you know, once you become a luchador, a wrestler, a
sports and retainer, however you want to call it, you
will never stop being it. You'll keep doing it till
the wheels come up. And he just had a show
in Atlanta like two months ago, and he's doing autograph signings,
appearances and whatnot. And I'm so happy he still does
that because it's been not just my hero, my instructor,
(03:31):
my friend, my executioner sometimes early on in my career.
I've been doing this for twenty three years now. I'm
going on my twenty fourth year next year. He's always
been so hard on me, like it's critique since I
was a kid, and one of the things that this
is personal, but it is the truth. You know how
(03:51):
in lucha lib you inherit your family's name, your family's
tradition whatever. My dad did not thought I was tough
enough to carry on with this legacy early on, and
he gave his name to someone else, my cousin and
that my brothers.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
That made me just go ballistic because.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
I realized that this life of always trying to prove
yourself with yourself with whoever you see in the mirror,
it's also the same with your family. Much to my surprise,
this happened, and I had to work my behind off
just to prove to him, because at the beginning I
didn't even want to be the son of a phantasma anymore.
(04:37):
I said like, Okay, that's not going to happen, but
I'm gonna prove to you. Not only am I tough
enough and I can have your name out there, I'm
going to become a stable name on my own, and
I started doing it on my own. My first three
years were as a top secret. That was that was
my wrestling name, top secret. I just kept doing it,
(05:01):
and eventually my dad was We would coexist in the
same shows. He would be in the main event and
I would be, you know, just the first match, which
in the US, by the way, it's different. Three of
the most important positions you can have is opening the show,
crossover or main event. Yeah, those are three important positions
(05:23):
that do you get in the US. Not in Mexico,
my friends, not in Mexico. In Mexico, it's by order
and you have to climb that hierarchy and eventually get
to the main event.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
That's how it works.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
It's like old school boxing. You start with the small guys,
work your way up to the champions. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
So there was instances way back when when we would
be on the same show and I would be home
three hours before he arrived because he was on the
main event. But it was just this fire inside me
that was ignited when that happened, and eventually he came
around and I came around too. Because wrestling, sports entertainment,
(06:02):
lucha libre is so hard that eventually you realize I
know where he's coming from. I know he doesn't want
me to embarrass whatever he did for forty years and
still does. And I that sang in and I understood.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
That's that's what I was gonna follow up with. And Jeff,
then I'll let you jump in. Do you think he
did that to you on purpose to motivate you sometimes
or do you think that's just the way he was?
Speaker 4 (06:25):
No?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
No, I think he was legit. He he didn't thought
I was. I was ready for this, wow, man, but
I made it. And then you talk about legacy because
everyone knew he was my dad, and he's an important
figure in Mexico.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
So everyone would try to test me. Everyone would try to,
you know.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Like realize that Okay, they want to find out are
you for real?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Let's see what you got?
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Or he had beef with people from thirty years ago,
and I would be the one to solve the situation,
you know.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Like, So it was hard. It was really hard to
grow up in that environment.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Then he became the Commissioner in Mexico, which is an
even higher position, and that was even harder for me.
But by then I was tough, tough enough to go
through whatever, and it was it was hard, it was
hard to climb to start them in Mexico, and then
eventually it was always my dream to come to WWE.
I gotta be honest, And there's a vivid, a very
(07:24):
vivid memory have I was with my dad watching TV
and it was Seawn Michael's and Triple H on TV
what life is and how I became who I am
and how I worked with them, the way I've worked
with them, that's just destiny. I don't know how that happened,
but it was them who inspired me. And I said
to my dad when I was a kid and I
(07:44):
was told him that's what I want to do there
with them, and he just said, go for it, do
whatever it takes to do it. And of course some
years afterwards he denied me the pretending to be his uh,
the follower of the steps.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
But that's just how a lot of plans. You know,
it's never the way you want it.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
It's never the way you plan it, but it's always
if you have a vision and your vision is clear,
you'll get there.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Go ahead, Jeff, I know you want to jump in there.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Yeah, I'm a big fan Sanchos.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
One thing That's one thing on this show I don't
shut up about as the wrestling needs. We need more
giants and we need more louchas. That's all I That's
all I talk about. So I'm a huge happy to
have you on the thing. Why don't you steal your
dad's name. You should be Fantasma.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Just steal it.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Say I'm taking it, dude, and I'm taking the mask
and this is.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Now now now what now? What daddy?
Speaker 1 (08:45):
The ultimate heel move, that's what.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
No, No, Santa is good.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
I was a heel for a while in that household fun. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
Oh, here's a here's a question that like marks like
me wonder you know when when we get to actually
get to be in your house or apartment or wherever
you are right now. I always one of the things
like you've won a ton of things, thank you.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
But there's the thing is you, guys, you win these
things as you go. You're in Lucha forever.
Speaker 6 (09:16):
You you've won the you know, the n XT cruiser weight,
You've you've got things that you that you've a comp
and now, how do one do wrestlers keep a belt
from every time they win or or where do they
keep all this stuff? When they move around, you take
photos of it and then.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Give the belt.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
But how does it work. Where do you keep all
these championships and trophies and belts.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, yeah, you get to keep one, and I have
my trophy room back there, so I have all all
the belts I've ever obtained in my career.
Speaker 6 (09:45):
That must mean helping movers or helping wrestlers move, must
be a real pain in the ass.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Oh yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
It is because because if you're a veteran or on
your way to becoming a veteran, you will have your
team at home because you want to keep everything under control.
And so when you move, it's down to the floor
of the gym, all the you know, the.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Stuff you got there, your frame pictures. It's hard.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
That must be. Imagine helping the rock move.
Speaker 6 (10:15):
He's got all those chains and treadmills and belts, this chains.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
Pancake batter.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Hey is the trophy room and the gym the same room?
Are you looking at championships while you work out?
Speaker 4 (10:28):
No, it's a different.
Speaker 5 (10:30):
Your uncle was a wrestler too, right, Santos.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yeah, and it was my cousin who got the name,
not me.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I'm gonna go lift as soon as we finish me too,
let's let's talk storyline. So look, I'll be honest, man,
I'm biased. You've you've been in my home, we've broken
bread together, You've met my wife, my children, So I'm
on your side, even if you are breaking heroes knees. Okay,
what do you see as your future in the upcoming year?
(10:59):
Now that this year's coming to a close in the
new year, where do you see you going? What do
you see you building as far as your legacy?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Well, first of all, I think it's important to master
your instrument in what we do. Specifically, you got to
be good at cutting promos. Why because it's important to
share whatever it is, a storyline, whatever is you're feeling,
with the audiences and so that they can relate or not.
(11:28):
But more importantly, understand what you're trying to do out there,
which is why I did what I did in La
Hollywood and learn train my acting become better at it.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Of course I do not have the pen. I do
not write the storylines.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
But what I can do, and I've been trying to
do and I will keep on doing, is get myself better,
keep learning, keep growing, keep becoming a better instrument so
that when they write these things, I'm there and I
haven't missed one important show in the year, and this
(12:02):
is my first year on the main roster, so I'm
just I'm thankful.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I am.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I hope that I get more, but I'm already doing
a lot of stuff that I wasn't doing six months ago.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
They're They're giving me a lot of freedom.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
And all this effort that I'm putting into it, it's
paying off, and I'm just glad that it's happening right now.
The storyline is what it is, and I love it.
I have the opportunity to show more of what I
got and hopefully we'll get to wrestle Mania.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah. I've been watching you grow so quickly. You know.
We only have so much time on the show, so
we couldn't watch every single wrestling promotions show out there,
so we kind of stuck to Raw and SmackDown. But
my introduction to you, and a lot of people's introduction
was the World Cup, where we watched you and Ricochet
put on a match that I didn't know even existed,
(12:58):
Like it was so what the two of you were
doing was magical. And then I learned that you two
have a history, and I don't want to speak on
other promotions, but you two have had a history. Like
you said, you've been doing this twenty three years. Was yeah, okay, cool,
we can say it. Oh, I'm glad you guys had
a history. I'd like to talk about that match in particular,
(13:22):
if memory serves you, and the type of story that
you guys were telling, because it, to me was like
a Match of the Year contender.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
I think he texted me or something.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I remember that I sent you a message.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
But but this is important Treddie, because we shared the
ring so many times in lu Chanderground and we've always
had great chemistry. And he left lu Chander Ground before me,
and then he went through a very rough time because
he couldn't compete.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Then he started competing and doing his thing. I went
through my own you know.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Situation there, finally got out of my contract and then
it started competing. But I did it first an NXC,
just like you did. Eventually it was going to happen
and we would see each other, you know, in different
events WrestleMania, because I was doing Standing Deliver and he
would be doing WrestleMania stuff and we'd be like, hey,
we're going to get to it.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
One day. That day came and I remembered, and this is.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Very important to both of us, I think, because it
was the main event at SmackDown, and i'd been I'd
been there for two months, three months at tops, so
it wasn't like I was doing it for a year,
and then I eventually made it to the main event.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I was.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
I got the opportunity. So Triple H said to us,
all right, guys. He pulled this aside and he said,
this is it. No handcuffs, Just give me three segments
of the best that you can do, and then in
the future when you're main eventing, no one's going to
(14:58):
say why.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
So I know it's a lot.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
It's on you, but I did what I had to do,
and now you're there, you go out there and tear it.
And that's what we did.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, man, you guys killed it. Jeff, I know we're
getting close on time, so I'll let you close this
out if you got something else.
Speaker 6 (15:16):
Oh yeah, this one's gonna make him a little nervous
right here.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
So here's the thing.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
Me and my buddy BRENTT. Tobler, we're both stand up comedians,
and what we like to do is when we go
when we go to the clubs, we always say to ours,
we say to the bookers and the owners and the managers,
because comedy is similar to wrestling in a lot of ways.
It is the road life and the things, and so
we always say who's the worst, who's the best? And
so they always go, we had so and so on
(15:42):
here he's a real jerk and a drunk, or oh,
this guy is awesome and we love them. So in
your experience of wrestling, who's a guy or gal in
wrestling that you're like, dude, I just love this person.
There my ride or die, they're the best? And then
if you will who do you just go?
Speaker 4 (15:58):
I'd hate that guy? So, so, who's the best?
Speaker 5 (16:01):
Who's the worst?
Speaker 7 (16:02):
Santos Well, to be very honest, I don't really hate nobody.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
I try to. I gotta be doing this for a
long time.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
So I used to hate people, but it was wrong
because this is a business and you have to treat
it as such. And I know it involves a lot
of passion, a lot of real emotions, a lot of
real feelings, but at the core, it is a business
and you have to treat it as such. And sometimes
people rubbed you the wrong way, But that doesn't mean
you gotta hate.
Speaker 6 (16:35):
So you hate dragonly, I get it all right, that's fair,
it's stupid, just kidding.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
The new North American Champion by the.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Way, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
Who he's the best?
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Then he's a guy.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Who's who you think?
Speaker 6 (16:50):
Is it going to be a big star or is
it just a good person or something somebody vouched for?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Dragon is going to be a Dragon Lee is going
to be a big star. I think that it's pretty
obvious that he's.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Got something going on.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Yeah, he's been on the main roster for less than
two months. He already had these first one on one
premium live events.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
You had such a crazy tach with him, dude, it.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Was like, yeah, you lazy chemistry.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
You refuse to engage in a lucha or style. For
the first few minutes of the match, it was just
like yep, it was almost deserve it. And then when
you gave it to him, you gave it to so
hard it was awesome.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
That's important to do because you know this. It is Freddy.
I was going to tell you, Prince, you know this, Freddy.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
You know this jet If you see Toulucha guys, and
Triple A said it in the conference in the press
conference afterwards, Tulucha guys that bring more than just being
Tuluca guys.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
That's what I wanted. That was my aim, that was
my vision.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
And I know the urge is there to if you
have twelve to fifteen minutes, just go out and do
crazy stuff.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
But the truth about this is if you stay Luca,
you say Luca.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
And I want to create a hybrid much like we
did it in Luca Underground, most like we did someplace
in other places, you know, an impact back then. I
try to bring my style with the American style so
that anyone that watches the show will connect and we'll
understand what I'm trying to do. And also because I
want to work with Randy, I want to work with Roman,
(18:24):
I want to work with everyone out there, and keeping
myself in a box is not going to help me.
So I needed to portray this. I needed to share
this vision and Dragon lead he got it.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
If you do wrestle Randy Orton, you got to give
him one for me because he jacked my backup when
I hosted Monday nightra on a podcast. Granted it was
my fault, but I need some payback. I need.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
It won't be easy, It won't be easy.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
He's huge right now. I might end up getting one
for my own, but I'll do it for you, bro.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Think you bet now? I noticed the Elm Street sign
back there. Are you a horror fan or do you
just like pain?
Speaker 3 (19:05):
No?
Speaker 4 (19:05):
I am, I am. We're horror fans in this family.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
What is your favorite or maybe you don't have a
favorite because there's so many great ones. But what's one
that you like to talk about, that that you always
have to talk about when you're with friends talking horror movies?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
The two of my my my two most important movies
are that I was really scared when I was a
kid was Chucky on the Elm Street.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Because I was I was a little kid, and I
would literally think that I was on one corner of
the bed or the other corner of the because I
would think that Freddy was gonna just come out of
my you know that was or I would stay really
still because I would feel like, you know, Chucky's a
little step.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
Kids for real.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
But then kids love yeah. But then afterwards I.
Speaker 6 (19:50):
Was saying, kids love Chucky because he always said you
always cursed a lot. You would always say, like shit
and beat he was. He would always curse. And remember,
as a.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Kid, Spanish, the Spanish dub is dope on Chucky.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
The Spanish is so good. It's so good. But you
know what's funny to me that kids nowadays don't see
it as scary as I used to them.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
It's when kids told know what you did last summer.
They're like, that movie's so funny, and I'm like, ah,
that's kind of an insult.
Speaker 7 (20:19):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
We worked really aren't on that, but right it was.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
It was.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
It was scary.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
And back then, I mean going to parties and being
in the first year of college or whatever, you would
relate to those movies. You know, like after after party,
the lady is gonna walk by myself. Now I'll walk
with you. I don't want nothing to happen to you. You know. Yeah,
like like you would relate. But nowadays kids are in
(20:43):
a different dimension. I must, I must say because to me,
for example, the Exorcists, for example, it was one of
the movies that I really liked that enjoy Amen.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, the omen that's a great one too. You know,
people thought the Exorcist was real when that ship came out.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
That's how much fun or around it was. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I think that's why wrestlers like horror so much, because
it's all about tricking the audience into making it real
just for that moment and suspending that disbelief. Listen, we're
gonna get into this and more stuff on the Deeper
Dive on tomorrow show, which is Thursday, unsanctioned Thursday. So
I want to thank all of you for listening. Santos
Anko in anywhere, thank you for listening. See you tomorrow.
This was Wrestling with Freddy. This has been a production
(21:29):
of Iheart'smichael Toura podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
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