April 2, 2018 • 53 mins
Malcolm Alexander was wrongfully convicted for a 1979 rape in Gretna, LA and spent nearly four decades incarcerated before DNA evidence proved his innocence. In February 1980, police arrested 20-year-old Malcolm Alexander after a white woman accused him of sexually assaulting her. Malcolm, who is black, told police that the sex occurred after he gave the woman money and that it was consensual. This encounter, which was uncorroborated and later dropped, prompted police to place Malcolm’s photo in an array that was shown to the 1979 rape victim over four months after she was attacked at gunpoint by a complete stranger. The assailant was behind the victim for the entirety of the crime, and her opportunity to view him was extremely limited. According to police reports, the victim “tentatively” selected Malcolm Alexander’s photo. Yet, police conducted a physical line-up three days later that included Malcolm, who was the only person from the photo array who was shown again to the victim in the physical line-up. Again, the victim made a “possible” identification and the word “tentative” was written next to Malcolm’s line-up number. However, when the original detective returned later that day to record a statement from the victim, the victim’s confidence was recorded as 98% sure that Malcolm Alexander was the assailant. He was arrested and charged with aggravated rape and he went to trial on November 5, 1980. The entire trial—from selection of the jury until the jury’s guilty verdict—lasted one day, and he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Malcolm’s paid attorney, who was subsequently disbarred, failed to make court appearances and to file important pleadings, including a motion challenging the identification. The Innocence Project first took up Malcolm Alexander’s case in 1996 but quickly learned that the rape kit and a semen-stained towel had been destroyed only four years after his conviction. In 2013, new hair evidence recovered from the crime scene was found at the Jefferson Parish Sheriff’s Office Crime Lab. The tests showed that all three hairs came from the same person, and Malcolm Alexander was excluded as the source of the hairs. On January 30, 2018, absolved of the crime thanks to DNA evidence, Malcolm Alexander walked free from the Louisiana State Penitentiary at Angola after serving 38 years. He is joined by his son Malcolm Jr. and Innocence Project's Director of Post-Conviction Litigation, Vanessa Potkin, in this episode.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
America has two point two million people in prison. If
just one percent is wrong, that's twenty two people. That's
a lot of people's lives destroyed. If the system wants
to take you out of society, they will do it
no matter what lords they have to break, saying that
(00:23):
they are enforcing the lords, but they're breaking the lord.
Having to hear those people say that I was guilty
of a crime that I did not commit, and then
here my family break down behind me and not be
able to do anything about it. I can't describe the
crushing weight that was. I'm not anti police, I'm just
anti corruption. A lot of times we look and we
(00:46):
see something happened to somebody, and that's the first thing
we said, that could never happen to me, But they can.
This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with
(01:16):
Jason Flam Today, I have a truly extraordinary guest, a
gentleman named Malcolm Alexander, who was released from prison three
weeks ago after serving almost thirty eight years for a
crime he did not commit. Louisiana inmate is a free
man this afternoon after he was clearing of a rape
(01:37):
that happened back in nine st Judge throughout fifty eight
year old Malcolm Alexander's conviction after defense attorneys argued that
Alexander's trial lawyer failed to point out the victim has
been doubtful when she identified him. Alexander spent thirty eight
years at Angola for the crime. Malcolm, welcome to the show.
(01:57):
And with him today is his son, Malcolm Jr. Who
is forty years old. He was too at the time
that his father was sent away. So Malcolm Junior, welcome
to wrong for Conviction. And we have a return visit
from one of Malcolm's extraordinary lawyers at the Innocence Project,
(02:18):
Vanessa Potkin, who is the director of post conviction Litigation. Vanessa,
welcome back, Thank you for having me. Great to be here. So, Malcolm,
I want to go back to the beginning, before this
whole insane saga started. Let's go back to where you
grew up and how you grew up and what your
(02:39):
life was like as a child as a young man. Well,
very simple, sir, play sports and George biking, done a
lot of fishing. What kind of sports? I mean, you're
a pretty big guy, look like you might play some football,
played a lot of football. Came up from Junior High
Too High playing football, went to John Eric Wordly Middle School,
(03:02):
and I left from Worrely Middle School, went to West
Jefferson High. From West Jefferson High went to Joan Eric
And after that, yeah, yes, I just went into the
working world. What were you working at? My seperate jobs,
it was like a oncet. I worked for International Tank Terminal.
(03:23):
I worked for Fleet Company. I worked for Golf Central Road.
There's a lot of jobs for a guy who is
still just a teenager. Really at the time. Right, you
had your son, Malcolm, who is sitting here in Malcolm Jr.
Sitting here with you know you had him when you
were very young, Yes, sir, I had him actually a
lot of scaling uh high school. And that's the kind
(03:46):
of reason why I had all the job because I
was playing football plus working at the same time. Right,
So you had a very busy life. We had a
good life, yes, sir, And you got a great son
out of it. Was now a man obviously grew up
without his father. And of course now I got to
just get this out. You have a grandson, Malcolm the third, sir.
(04:09):
It's amazing your grandson is twenty, which is the same
age that you were when when you were locked up.
It's unbelievable. I mean, that really gives a sense of
the timeline and going back and we were talking like
who is president when you were locked up? I think
we were doing quarter time. Jimmy Carter was the president. Wow,
(04:32):
that does give a sense of of how long ago
it really was. So how did this happen? And then
we turn to Vanessa for a second. Can you take
us through how this began and why it was allowed
to continue when there were so many obvious signs that
he wasn't the guy. Sure. In nineteen seventy nine, a
(04:54):
woman was minding an antique shop that she had just
opened when a black man that she had never se
before came into the store and basically attacked her from
behind at gunpoint, took her into a small bathroom in
the back of the store, where he sexually assaulted her
twice and then fled. And this was the rape of
(05:14):
brutal rape of a white woman by a black male
in the Deep South in ninety nine. And we'll get
into the fact that there was a cross racial identification
or misidentification, which we know is a is a huge
problem because scientific study after study have proven that our
memories are totally fallible. In this case, the identification was
(05:35):
made four and a half months after the crime, right,
and good luck trying to remember what you were doing
four and a half months ago or any details of that.
But then when it's across racial identification, of course the
odds of a correct result go down dramatically, and this
had all of those factors right, that's right. The victim
in this case was attacked in an antique store that
(05:57):
she had just opened. It was early in the day
and a man came in with a gun. Most of
the attack happened from behind, and it was at gunpoint.
We know weapon focus is also a big issue in
misidentifications because when a crime happens with the weapon, people
tend to look at the weapon, not the person who
was holding the weapon, and really be focused on what's
(06:18):
happening there. So the assailant came into the store armed
and the victim was held at gunpoint throughout the entire attack,
and then the perpetrator fled, so she had a very
limited opportunity to to see the person who did this,
and over four months went by with no identification. Made
or you know, no suspect in the case. Unfortunately, in
(06:41):
March of nineteen, Malcolm Alexander had a consensual relationship with
a white woman and it turned out that she was
a sex worker and wanted money from him, and when
he didn't give her the money, she made a false
allegation of rape, and that charge was immediately smith. It
was not pursued at all. Absolutely, the police found no cooperation,
(07:04):
they didn't pursue it. But the lead officer who responded
to that case had also been the lead officer on
the nineteen seventy nine rape in the antique store. And
so when Malcolm Alexander came in and told police exactly
what happened and made a statement, the officer said, hmmm,
and this isn't the reports. You know. There was something
(07:26):
about him that reminded him of the previous incident that
by now had been unsolved for you know, just about
four months from our take. The only thing that similar
between both incidents is that the victim was white. Otherwise
they were completely different than the perpetrator was black. Correct,
and well, there was no perpetrator in the ones. In
both cases, it was a sexual event. What you want
(07:47):
to call it between a black male and a white woman.
But other than that, there is one was consensual, one
was not. There's no similarity. That was just a terrible
coincidence that happened to put Malcolm in the crosshairs of
the parties, right, I guess coincidence or racism on the
part of the investigating officer both both. And once he
was put into the photo ray, then the factors that
(08:10):
you were discussing before kick in, and you know, this
is night and the lead detective is administering the photo ray,
which we know today by best practices, is not how
it should be done. That should be a blind lineup
where the person conducting the ray doesn't know who the
suspect is, so they can't intentionally or unintentionally conveyed cues
to the eyewitness as to who to pick. But the victim,
(08:33):
she picked him out tentatively and said she wanted to
see him again in person. So three days later they
didn't in person lineup, and Malcolm was the only person
from the photo array who was repeated in the in
person lineup, right, which again is going to be a
very suggestive protocol. Malcolm, what was going on in your head?
Because here you are one day, you're working on several jobs,
(08:56):
you're playing sports, you're raising your family, and and you
get arrested. Did you even know about this crime? Had
you heard anything about it? Was it talked about in
the neighborhood? No, sir. And actually when I was approached
about it, I volunteered to go to the lineup because
I was actually sitting in the parish waiting to get
out on bill. And when they approached me about this
(09:17):
crime here, and they asked me what i'd be willing
to appear in front of the lineup. I know I
hadn't done anything, you know far as in that case
there what they're talking about. Someone else said that I
may have raped them, But all the time I know
I hadn't reaped in and wanted the beginning. And then
she picked you out of the lineup, That's what I
was told. So you weren't even made aware of it
(09:40):
at that time, no, sir. So what happens next? All right?
I think it was the next day that came back
and booked me or something like this. Here the attorney
that I had with me at the lineup, his name
was Ralph Burnett, and I wind up dismissing him. He
was another pairing attorney who asked the questioning to me,
(10:02):
do I go around raping on white women? So I
had to uh just miss him. I called my parents
and explaining to my parents what was happening, and I
guess to let him know what that he would fire it.
And that's when we went and got Joe Tosh with
the way in the fact that Joe Tosh and Robert
(10:24):
Burnett was actually working out the same office. It didn't
even know that, sir. I mean, that sounds like an
office from hell. Because this guy Tosh was one of
the most incompetent and even evil characters that the American
Bar Association has a level ever allowed to become a lawyer.
(10:44):
How he became a lawyer in the first place as
a mystery, But the fact is that he was later
disbarred for such egregious misconduct or whatever you want to
call malfeasance and competence. And in your case, it actually
bears read because it defies the imagination to see what
is possible in our criminal justice system. And I'm going
(11:06):
to read something here. He repeatedly failed to appear in court,
missing both the arrangement and the sentencing that alone is
giving me the chills. It's just shocking. I mean, how
can a lawyer not show up? It's just I mean,
and there and there you are probably wondering, where's my
lawyer at right? How does anybody would be Okay, take
(11:32):
a second here. He also failed to file important and
basic pleadings with the court. He never challenged the circumstances
of the identification, which would be lawyering one oh one, Vanessa.
The list goes on. He did not prepare an opening statement,
failed to properly cross examined witnesses, sometimes asking no questions
(11:52):
at all, and gave just a four page closing argument
and then, as if to put an explain nation point
on this whole nightmare scenario of American jurisprudence. Despite explicitly
telling Malcolm and his family that he would appeal to
the decision, he never did so. Um, this is hard
(12:14):
probably for a lot of people to believe that in
the situation in which literally your life is in this
guy's hands, because you were facing and ultimately were given
a sentence of life at hard labor with no possibility
of parole, and this guy didn't even bother to do
(12:37):
things that any first year law student would have done. Um,
and it's a terrible failure that nobody steps in, and
there's got to be someone who's gonna go, wait, this
is not okay, and that should have happened in your case.
There should be some check and balance where when an
attorney fails so terribly it doesn't take years and years
(13:00):
and years and then wait for the guy to get
this barred after he screws over so many other people too.
I mean, God knows the trail of destruction and misery
that he left. How many more Malcolm Alexander's are out
there that had the terrible misfortune and not only be
wrongfully accused and arrested for something and charged, but then
to be represented misrepresented by this small evil man. Um,
(13:27):
it's uh, this is America. That shouldn't happen. Mm hmmm.
So how long did you have to wait for your
trial to start? Think about three months? Because um, it
(13:52):
was a time that uh, I actually went to Jackson,
Mississippi for the criminal and saying for a little while,
they're trying to buy time to get a lawyer to
investigate the case. Because at some point in there he
was explaining to me about the date that the crime
happened on, and then by time I made back, then
(14:14):
you're telling me about it happened on another date. And
at the time I was working, so we was trying
to establish me an alibi, my my family and us
to get with my boss to show the lawyer because
he really wasn't doing know what we call leg work,
and the information he was kind of like giving us
about the case wasn't really never measuring up because we
(14:35):
discovered that after him constantly saying the date was off.
So we just couldn't necessarily afford to go and get
another lawyer just like that, and I had made a
decision about had actually having my own paid attorney, So
just one thing led to another, and I just wound
up sticking with him, and my boss, who I was
(14:57):
working for doing contract work with, he like, what's going on?
His question asked, what was the lawyer actually saying the
date that it happened on that Pacific date? Because he
had wanted to come to cold and testify that much.
We did run by the lawyer, but there was something
that he just never follow up on. So your boss,
(15:20):
who would have been probably a very believable witness as
somebody who was a successful businessman and point people like yourself.
I never got the chance to get understand and tell
people where you really were that day exactly. And were
you aware at this time that this lawyer was really
selling you down the river? No, sir, not really, because
(15:41):
I went into the system trusting it, not believing that
you know, they actually can find me guilty or he
he got allowed me to be found guilty or something
I didn't do. And I considered, once all the facts,
is actually knowing about the case, you know it would
prove that I didn't do it. That seems to be
a common thread, right. You believe from the beginning that
(16:02):
the system would work for you because you knew that
you weren't there, you weren't the guy, and in fact,
you didn't even match the description as it turns out.
But it failed that every step of the way. And
there are so many things that just one thing could
have gone right and would have changed the whole outcome
of this thing, but instead everything went wrong. So the
day of the trial comes and you're still believing that
the jury is going to hear the facts and they're
(16:25):
going to recognize that there's a big, big mistake. You're
gonna go home to your family. So what was that
day like? Well, I'm sitting there, me and my family
and the lawyer and let's see, I'm listening to him
call witness who testified, asked her, well, this investigating the
(16:47):
met this week we was calling he had calling that
and there getting like a narrative of the events that
it was taking place, that surround the crime, where it's
going to the sea, collecting every dance. And then we
got over to the doctor where they brought up to
the hospital. Then we went to the doctor who exambled
(17:07):
her and he gave his findings and stuff like this
here in some way and there he's more or less
repeating thanks what she said, more than actually gave his
expert analysis of the test results and stuff like that.
But I'm listening to all this show, but then nothing
actually is printing the thing at me until we got
(17:28):
to the final stage when we went to talking about identification.
So I'm saying, well, just the only thing they're talking about,
this identification that actually connected me with this. We had
no other witness, no nothing, I mean, no finger press,
no blood tests, nothing, nothing but identifications. So I'm saying,
(17:49):
all right, let's see and the rest of the fact
that the only evidence against him was I witness identification
months and months after the fact. Had you been representing him,
what would you have done well, I would have challenged
the idea. I mean, there was a lot that the
(18:09):
lawyer could have done based on the actual facts of
the case, the fact that the victim did not have
a good opportunity to view the assailant, that the attack
happened from behind, that the assailant had a gun to
the victim's head throughout most of the attack, and like
Malcolm said, there was just a very vague description of
the assailant, you know, just basically general height, general appearance, race,
(18:31):
but you know, nothing specific. And the victim's identification came
over four months after the crime happened, in these suggestive
identification procedures where he was repeatedly shown to the victim.
And what's most important is that the second time the
victim was shown Malcolm was in this live lineup, and
even that second time through that suggestive procedure, she was
(18:55):
not positive that he was the assailant. Her identification was
documented as possible and tentative, and that was the lineup
report that was prepared by the officer who conducted the
identification procedure. What happened to the guilty beyond all reasonable
doubt thing, Well, that is just not what happened here.
(19:15):
I mean, it's just it's so enraging, as you said,
to listen to this story and to kind of relive
it again with Malcolm, because here he is twenty years old.
His life is at stake, right, He's gonna be sentenced
to life with no possibility parole, which is the mandatory
sentence in Louisiana for aggravated rape, which just means any
type of rape with force. And so he's on trial
(19:38):
for his life and his lawyer is not doing anything.
I mean, imagine your first lawyer says to you, do
you like raping white woman? It's like who that's your defender,
that's supposed to be your advocate against the government coming
after you with all of the resources that it has
to prosecute you for this crime. And then he goes
to trial and his trial last one day. In one day,
(20:00):
they pick a jury, have opening statements, present all of
the evidence. I mean not opening statements by Malcolm's lawyer,
but the state. They present all of the state's case,
the defense doesn't call a single witness. The jury deliberates
and returns the verdict. You know by six pm. It's
insane that justice. Yeah, one day, you're really right to
(20:21):
put that in very stark, you know light, because one
day that's what Malcolm's life was worth. Two pretty much
everybody in that courtroom, right, even his defender, he didn't
want to be bothered. Obviously, he didn't show up, he
didn't do any research, he didn't call any witnesses, he
didn't do anything that he was supposed to do, and
any I keep harping on that because it's madness. And then,
(20:42):
like you said, one day and everybody go home and
go get somebody and watch the news and go to
sleep or whatever they do. Right, and he goes off
to prison for the rest of his life. And it
takes thirty eight years to unravel this disaster and to
bring him back home to where he belongs. I want
to get to you in a minute, Malcolm Junior, because
I mean you were you were just a baby at
the time. Were you even aware of any of this stuff?
(21:05):
Because you were between two and three while this was
taking place, right, who took care of you during this
time between my mom and grandmother and grandfather and my
mom mom. So all my grandmother's, my mom my ain'ties.
They all stepped up. And how difficult was it for you?
I mean, was there a stigma attached to it? Did
(21:25):
other kids have an idea that your dad was in prison?
And what did that mean? And how difficult was it? Well,
none of the kids knew. I didn't even know in
the beginning. But as I got older, desk, when I
became aware of you know, when we all go see him,
and I'm young, I'm wondering why he can't come with me,
you know, when you would go visit them and Gold. Yes,
when I go visit him and Gold. So, like I said,
(21:48):
going there from two years old, growing up, going there,
and as I got old, I'm like, he asked my grandmother, like,
my why my dad can't come? You know, so she'll
be like he coming, he just can't come right now.
So then as I got old, it's like, oh, this jail,
like my dad in jail. So because there nobody actually
(22:11):
fully told like sit down and told me your dad
is in jail. So I just had there as I
got order figure it out on my own, and and
then it's like, man, what my dad in jail for?
You know? So I'm getting bits and pieces. And then
as I got older, and still they talked to him
like like my my uncles and my aunts and everybody,
(22:32):
like everybody in the neighborhood, like, man, your dad didn't
do that. You know. Once I got up in age
and they're talking about the case, like your dad and
never do nothing like that. They have to do is
race cars and play football and things like that. So
I never felt any you know, far as not believing
that he didn't do it, because everybody that ever knew
(22:52):
him always had something positive to sell about them, and that,
you know, they wronged him, and you know, things like that.
So you don't seem well, both of you, neither one
of you seem angry. I mean, did at any point
did you become angry at the system because you knew
that your dad was in this. And we've seen different cases.
We've been people on the show where their children actually
(23:13):
thought they were guilty because they were told that the
father was guilty or their mother. But how did you,
how did you process that? I don't know, I feel
like I would have been very angry. Yeah, yeah, I
was mad growing up with with your dad not there
and he missed in your life and you get them
folks in the role you'll be neating you your dad
in the house and that father figure. So he always
(23:35):
was in my life talking to me over the phone,
but that's not him in the presence of being there
to be able to put his foot down in things
that when I'm getting out the way with my mom
all doing things I shouldn't be doing, you definitely need
your dad there. So, yeah, I was mad. Let's go
back to the trial day. There's this one day trial
(23:56):
and now it's getting to be late afternoon, early evening.
Did or he goes out. They deliberated I think for
less than an hour, right, less than an hour? Yeah,
they come back. Did you believe at this point having
now seen the whole day's proceedings, and you get a
sense when you're in that room you sort of make
some eye contact with the jurors and whatnot, Right, what
(24:18):
was going through your mind and what was that moment like,
uh when they came back into the court room. The
honest it was like a toss up because the lawyer
really didn't say much into my defense. I'm trying to
get you an idea of high ward for me. Really,
I could say it back then and opposed to high
(24:39):
see it now and make me know because I really realized,
you know a lot that he didn't do. It's all right,
But it was like, is this really happening? To be
honest withcher, I couldn't really believe that it actually taking place.
They actually couldn't believe that we had got this far
with it, right, because you should have never even been
(25:00):
on trial in the first place. We know that, well,
I don't want to minimize the idea of three months
in jail waiting your trial, But had it resolved at
that point, you could have gone on with your life
and piece things back together, maybe gotten your job back
and gone back to raising your family, etcetera. But then
there was that moment when they announced their verdict. It
(25:21):
was shocking. It was hurting because I remember my mother
busting out crying, my sister started crying, and my dad
had just hid. Then he looked on their face. Yeah,
I came. And remember even if the lawyer said everything
onna be all right or not and all, I can't
(25:42):
even remember that because really are paying attention more to
my family then, because thank you. See, thinking now, I
realized when I got found guilty, they got found guilty,
it just was more than just me. There was finally guilty.
And uh, once I actually stepped out their present, that's
(26:05):
when I started crying and really really say they and
affect me a lot of trying to remain strong for
them at that time. And then not too long after that,
I guess you were taken off to what is one
of the worst prisons anywhere in the world, really and
gola Um and it's really a slave plantation. And in fact,
(26:28):
from what I understand, you were actually made to pick
cotton in the beginning, right, which is an image that
is just mind blowing. Yes, sir, Yes, when I got there,
were still picking cotton. We're still picking oachres. We're stire
picking the corn, very the vegetable. And then they have
(26:48):
a two what they called a hole actually was a
tree branch with a piece of mellow on the end
that we was using to sprad the roads with a
tree branch with a piece of metal in it describe
the road, Yes, sir, So it's pretty much like a
change gang more or less. You don't think about it.
We didn't actually have to change us. We had to
(27:08):
cut gals and everything and a certain paramele. We had
to stay within. Here you are an innocent man, take
(27:31):
it away from your family and your life and everything else,
put into this basically hell on Earth. How did you
managed to persevered? What kind of strength does it take
to deal with almost four decades in that environment knowing
the whole time that you're innocent. Well, most people when
(27:53):
they go into the institution that discover it try to
adjust to the institution, but it's got pocketed inside the
institution that is educational and positive and by me. Actually,
alfway has worked. When I was in the free world
and going into that type of environment field work and
stuff like that, it was kind of that readjusting, And
(28:17):
I know it always was a place that I didn't
want to be, that I shouldn't have been in the
first player. So it was a question is what can
I do? How can I maintain that? Actually it would
help me to get out of here. And like I
always tell people, getting mad when they're gonna solve the problem.
I was somewhat angery in the beginning because I know
(28:38):
I wouldn't be here as common, but that didn't solve
my problem. So during my appeal stage and once it
was overwhere and went into my post conviction, we had
this lawyer who actually suggested, because we had to go
in and high and not a lawyer to do the peers,
we actually had this not a lawyer who suggested to
(29:00):
my parents that I could file my own post conviction.
So from that and when my parents mentioned that to
me and said that the lawyers said where you could
take time out by you being there and learning the
law and do your own post conviction and stuff like that.
And I didn't even get mad about that because it's
the truth, you know, that's started me, That's started me
(29:25):
into pursuing my freedom on my own. And how did
you find out about the Innocence Project? Right? One of
the prison magazines that I had received had the Innocent
Project addressing information you on it. So you just sent
off a letter and then and then how did you
find out? Did you get a letter back say and
(29:47):
we're gonna take your case? Yes, I did. I did
receive it, and it actually brightened me to be honest
withcher because I tried hard to contact other organizations and
trying to get them interesting in case. And Malcolm Jr.
How where were you during this time of this stuff.
Did he call you and say, hey, guess what, I
got some great news? Or you must have been trying
(30:08):
everything you could do as well to help him because
you knew he was innocent as your dad and I
can see you love him. So yeah, I had got
a couple of lawyers myself once I got up in
age and went to making money. Ain't nothing he called for.
I didn't try, you know, we we we was trying
and investigators trying this, go talk to this one, you
know what I mean, putting my money up, me and
my grandmother gonna get this lawyer, that lawyer. So it
(30:32):
is whatever he needed. I was there and was willing
to do whatever it takes to try. But when he
called and said, hey, man, they found some evidence. Because
he had been writing down into Jefferson Paris for the
years and years and years with new evidence. And when
he called and said and they said they found some evidence,
and we were like, oh yeah, you know, we were
just very excited about that. And then also when he
(30:54):
said that the Innocent Project is going to take the
case again, he said, man, we're good, we're straight, I'm
gonna be there. And this was just in the beginning.
We were just so happy about that, you know, just
I was very happy and please, yeah, Vanessa, back to you.
So originally, when the inst Project got involved, the evidence
was nowhere to be found, right, So um, you know,
(31:15):
Malcolm really reached out in the early days of our history,
and in nine six we started working on his case
and a law student reached out to the court clerk's
office that was supposed to have all the trial exhibits,
and I think it was in an earlier day of honesty,
got a letter back saying we inadvertently destroyed all of
the evidence. We shouldn't have. It was a mistake. Today
(31:38):
they probably would have just said, yeah, as lost, we
can't find it, but they actually copped to the fact
that they had destroyed it. Just a couple of years
after his trial, you know, LUNTI, he was still on
post conviction. So there was seem an evidence that had
been left that we could have tested, but it had
been destroyed. And so we because we were just focused
at the time on DNA cases, we closed out Malcolm's
(31:59):
case and nine D six, but he didn't give up.
You know, he kept on filing motions. He kept on,
as Malcolm Jr. Said, reaching out to the officials in
Jefferson Parish. And so his persistence paid off in two
thousand thirteen when they responded to him and said, actually,
even though all of that evidence at the courthouse had
been destroyed, there was some hairs that had been collected
(32:20):
from where the victim was raped, and those had been
kept at the lab. So they found this envelope that
would turn out to be the key to his freedom.
Are there rules for the safeguarding and the storing safe
storing of evidence from cases around the country, So unfortunately,
there are no uniform rules. Some states have preservation laws
(32:42):
that require evidence to be held onto but in some
states it's perfectly fine to destroy evidence after a direct appeal.
So that's something that has to be changed. I mean,
how can we have somebody in prison and destroy evidence
that could one day, you know, show that we got
it wrong. And we know that technology constantly evolves, so
(33:03):
there's just no reason to be destroying biological evidence that
could cut to the truth in a case. It could
not only prove that the person that's in there is
their own but could also show who the right one
is and then do society a big favor by getting
that predator off the streets. So back to you, So
now here it is again, like I said, I mean,
what a roller coaster ride, because after sixteen long years,
(33:26):
you get the golden tickets, so to speak, right the
instance projects taking your case. Then you get the huge
disappointment finding out that the evidence, which is what you
need in order to be able to prove what you know,
is gone. That would be the time when it would
have been convenient for you to just say, you know what,
I give up. I can't. I mean, who can. The
(33:48):
highs and lows are insane, But seventeen more years you
persisted until one day two thousand and thirteen, after thirty
three years, and even that's five years ago now because
we're in two thousand eighteen. Obviously it's remarkable. I mean,
it's uh, it says a lot about you. I don't
know who could who could do that? You're doing this
(34:09):
hard time in the best way that you possibly can, right,
doing positive things, staying close with your family, fighting to
prove your innocence. And then three weeks ago on January
two thousand eighteen, almost thirty eight years a lifetime. Okay, Um, yeah,
(34:33):
let's just process that. What was that day? Like, No,
so I actually was in the coat room when I
found out, and really I was fighting back to tales.
It almore went through I got I'm staying I went
through a life I deny you. And when I say,
like Eric Corner, that I would turn no matter whether
(34:54):
I was writing or even wrong, I just say right,
because I knew I was right on the right trio.
I was always constantly being told that you know, it's wrong,
it's not gonna happen. You know, we deny and we
deny and we deny you and be honest with you.
My true freedom date date that I knew that I
(35:14):
truly was gonna get out when Mr Vanessa actually believe
in me being innocent, and she always told me then
that she will be with me to the end. And
if I told her people such as just it's remarkable
or irreplaceable. And that's when I believe that I was
(35:35):
gonna get out, that's when you believed and and that's
a very powerful statement. Um, but then you went to
court and this is the opposite. Now right now, we're
thirty eight years later families there. Yes, Sir Malcolm Jr.
Were you there that day? And you were there, Vanessa right.
It was actually an incredibly stressful day because we had
(35:58):
done DNA testing in Malcolm's case, and as of July
two thousand and seventeen, we had some indications from the
prosecutor's office that they were recognizing that this was a
erroneous conviction and would potentially be moving with us to
vacate the conviction. But it was seven excruciating months of
(36:19):
getting to that point, and even as of the morning
of January, we were not certain that they were going
to vacate the conviction. So when Malcolm says he learned
that he was being exonerated in court, he really did,
because we didn't know as of that morning what was
going to happen. And it was incredible pressure because Malcolm
(36:42):
was in court, he had been waiting on the quote
unquote one yard line for seven months. His entire family
was there, and we didn't know whether they were going
to agree or ask for more time. Okay, so now
back to you, welcome, Okay, So you're there, Vanessa stre
Us and out Um. I know the family has got
(37:03):
to be on ten, right, stress level and you're there,
You've seen everything. Now, so what happened? How did it
come down? Ah? How do you ways saying waken up
from a coma? I mean it was like it happened
(37:24):
to be alive. I mean everything that I actually ever
went through preparing myself for this one day, it was
all worth it. I mean, keeping clear, not getting any trouble,
learning much as I can learn. I mean, just preparing
myself to one day actually returning to society. Would she
(37:46):
finally said that she had to say my immediate release. Yeah,
it was like it did it mean? Like did she
really see immediately because of thinking my head to go
back to a gola? I thought you're gonna sen me
back there in gola. Um. But so those were the
(38:09):
words the judge said. There was some arguments back and
forth whatever, and then the judge said, what I mean,
it's unfortunately not what you would want it to be
in every way, because you want the state to say
on the record we're sorry. You want the judge to
publicly acknowledge all that has been robbed from Malcolm and
(38:29):
his family who were there in court. And while everyone
was cordial and the conviction was vacated it. Certainly it
wasn't what he was owed at that moment, but he
was getting out and so there was a big sense
of joy. And his mom was in the courtroom and
probably twenty or thirty family members at least. That's must
have been a raucous And what did you do? Did
(38:51):
you turn around and and did you jump for joy?
I stayed pretty calm. I stayed pretty comb I don't
know I can explain it. It's just the institutional life.
It prepares you for moment slect that. It's kind of
like it don't take your spirit, but it makes you
(39:14):
live a hart of life, not your emotions so much. Yeah, well,
let me get the family perspective from Malcolm Jr. Because
you're sitting there in the courtroom with the twenty or
thirty family members, however many it is, but it's your dad.
There's nobody closer to Malcolm in the courtroom than you
because yours blood. So what was your reaction and what
(39:37):
was the family's reaction? I mean, did you even believe it? Uh? Well,
I'll tell you what. We droned for joy. You know,
we were very excited and uh were, like she said,
it was she we were sitting there just waiting and waiting,
and we didn't know if it was going to happen
that day. But when it did, yeah, we we we
we just jumped and clapped and laughed and cried whatevery,
(39:59):
you know, just surreal, like I just couldn't believe that
they had came. So yeah, we were. It was excited,
very excited. And then did you just walk right out
into the daylight? And where did you go? Went down
to booking. I had to have a change of clothes
and everything, and they had to like process me out
(40:21):
and from that, Yeah, at the signs, some released paper
and then they let me go. They finally let me go.
Was it an hour or three hours? How long did
that whole process take? I think about an hour and
a half. And everybody was there waiting for you when
you when you came out and walked down the steps
(40:42):
like in the movie or something like that, And that
was the true exciting moment. Beautiful was a beautiful day,
son was out and everything and a nice little breeze blowing.
I would remember that. I mean it was beautiful, all
of us out there waiting on men standing and welcome me. Yeah,
I mean that's you remember, you think I remember just
(41:05):
when the joy say, you know, reverts free and stuff
like that. But to actually step out into society, into
the free world and breathe again and not worry about
all that prevent life. Where did you go? I went
to an innocent project off over the land, get their
(41:26):
in view, you know, say hello, thanks everyone there more
or less, then tell around and when UH got me
something to eat? Actually we got me some seafood, actually
said there and enjoying it? Did we eat some friedbrry
that night? Yeah? And the uh wife that COLI on
(41:47):
that late that night, my son wife make a frieberry
that my mother UH told her to make that I
grew up on eating, and uh she made me some
fribrary and I always wanted to eat some home bib friberry.
Oh so fried red Okay. And the seafood. I can't
imagine how good that takes after thirty eight years of
no seafood. Right, they're not giving you any seafood and
(42:07):
their goal, no, sir, now like you would think, we
it's really more like fish paddies. And if you actually
get to ever see a shrimp and all, you know,
like you probably say far in between. Yeah, I hear that.
Do you have a memory from those almost four decades
in prison? Was there a worst moment from all the
(42:29):
time you were locked up? Yes, sir, actually witness and
really experience a lot of not caring yuh like I
see to be in a place where that's truly no
emotions being showed. Everybody like smothering the actually the way
(42:50):
they feel and walking around asked, you know, I'm not
to be touched, I'm not to even be spoken to. Uh?
Is it is? It kind of nerves setting troubling me,
and you really want to get out of here, You
want to find a way to get away from that.
(43:13):
It's not a society as this society. It's a side
of the way. It don't breathe criminal. It just takes
the It strips you up your emotions, It makes you
suppress your emotion and and then you replace with uh,
(43:39):
I don't care. I mean it was probably a numbing
routine of just one day after another, weeks bleeding into months,
bleeding into years, bleeding into decades. But was there in
that routine? Was there one day of the week that
was better? Was there a day when there was any
any differentiation where not necessary. Oh wait, just on a
(44:01):
Friday that we realized once we get off that Friday,
we really had the next two days to relax, too
late for our self because you didn't have to work,
that we didn't have to work. And that's kind of
like became a lot. I was specialty. I was privileged
(44:22):
that we actually went to work and worked the five
days for the weekend for them two days to relax,
just like being on the outside, with the difference being
that in the goal, you're making somewhere between two cents
and twenty one cents an hour, right, yes, sir, yeah,
because we've heard about how they pay some people four
cents and keep two cents as attacks. Um. So now
(44:46):
you're here in New York, and you know, obviously we're
super happy to have you here and and seeing the
sights and and and running around like a movie star
or something like that, right, going to shows and restaurants
and whatnot. It must be just a surreal experience all
the way around. Is if says it seemed like a dream,
(45:07):
it does because everything I had explained that I would
like to do and see, I'm actually have an opportunity
to do it. I never actually had opportuned to leave Louisiana,
and none of that I have been afforded. Is it's like,
really that dream coming true. Even flying on the plane
was my first experience ever in life. Well, that's gonna
(45:31):
be a trip before we wrap up, and I want
to give everybody a chance to say some last words,
and I'll start with you, and I hope you'll talk
a little bit more about the problem with cases in
which I would just identification is the only evidence, and
how people should approach that when they're called to be
(45:53):
on a jury, and how they should interpret that, especially
in a case like this where it's across racial identification. Absolutely.
You know, we know so much more today about the
problems with memory and eyewitness identification, and it is the
leading cause of wrongful convictions in the DNA cases in
(46:15):
Louisiana right now. Unfortunately, they have not adopted reforms that
we know could lead to a reduction in mistaken eyewitness identifications.
And so that's an effort of the Innocence Project and
Innocence Project New Orleans to try to make sure that
Louisiana adopts reforms that could reduce wrongful convictions based on misidentification,
(46:38):
and just in general, you know, we should take a
step back in the criminal justice system and say, you know,
are we willing to send people to prison based on
an eyewitness identification alone that has no corroboration? I mean,
what do we do in those cases where the only
piece of evidence is an eyewitness identification, a piece of
evidence that we know is very unreliable. All so we
(47:01):
need to enact reforms. When people are our juries, they should,
you know, really understand that even though this type of
evidence is convincing. You know, if you have an eyewitness
who points the finger and says that's the person who
raped me, they may believe it. They probably genuinely believe it,
and they've come to believe it, but that doesn't mean
that it's right. And mistaken Eyewitness identification happens at alarming rates,
(47:26):
and we have to look at the conditions under which
the identification was made. We have to look at the
process under which the identification was made and make sure
that it wasn't suggestive. And we need to rethink about
indigent defense in this country. I mean, Malcolm did hire
a lawyer, but the lawyer he hired was based on
very limited means I'm glad you brought up the thing
(47:48):
about the indigent defense because you talk about a broken system.
Last year in New Orleans, the public Defenders handled approximately
twenty tho cases, so that, if you do the simple math,
is about four hundred cases per person per lawyer, and
courts are closed on the weekends, so that means they
(48:10):
were processing. And I say processing because it's really more
processing than representing one and a half clients per day.
So when you really think about it, what kind of
time did they have to spend? And in fact, the
head of the Public Defenders Association down there, I forgot
it's called actually refused to let his lawyers handle any
felony cases until he gave him more lawyers because he said,
(48:31):
I'm not going to just process people into prison. It's
a very principled stand. I think they ended up giving
him like eight or nine more lawyers. I mean, it's
a drop in the bucket, but at least it's a
little bit better. But yeah, that's the system that we're in.
And as long as we're in that system, there's going
to be another Malcolm Alexander every day, every hour. You
just don't have a shot. You don't have a shot.
(48:52):
So before we get to the star of our show,
for the closing thoughts, Malcolm Jr. You've been through so much.
I would love to get any anything that you want
to share with the audience about, you know, any thoughts
you have it all. There's never give up on your family.
You know, it'd be a it would be a rough
role going through that and seeing someone you love that's
(49:13):
incarcerated like that, knowing that they are innocent, and you
have all kind of mixed emotions Like I said, you'd
be mad, you'd be sad, and everything else and all above.
But just stay prayed up and just keep hoping and
wishing us something to break. And thanks to the Innocent Project.
I thank them for everything they have done for myself,
(49:35):
my dad and my family, putting him back in my
life because I never thought this dare come. So it's
just like unbelievable for me, for my grandmother, it's like
waking up to be to talk to him. I ain't
gotta be worried about waiting on the phone call and
just just out. You know, I'm forty now and he
went when I was two, But we still got a
(49:56):
lot of time that we can you know, sharing him
being if my son and so I'm just thankful that everybody,
you know, most of my family still here that to
enjoy him and uh, the rest of our life with him,
you know, so definitely happen for that your grandson will
get a chance to hear this. And is there anything
specific you want to say either about him or to him. Well, actually,
(50:20):
I've been out there life. I've been out their life
a long time, and for that, I'd like to apologize
not only to my son but also to my grandson.
And I like to see that I'm really proud of
my son for what he actually has done with his
life and sending it over to my grandson. He's done
(50:41):
well with my grandson, but I can't see no more
to either one of them outside the fact that really
I love him and being here with him, it's actually
gonna give me opportunity to show just how much I
really love him. And now out um the moment, we've
(51:01):
all been waiting for it. And what else can you
share with our audience? Well, he touched on something there is,
like I said, and being there, you know, you never
lose thought of your family, and especially important that your
family never lose the thought of you. So you like
(51:24):
setting a goal for yourself, and your goal is to
return back to your loved ones. But most of us
actually never like I said, I never felt I never
realized how much they had affect them. You know. I
guess I was so caught up in trying to get
back to him, I never took the time out to
(51:47):
think about how that affect them. And since I've been
out and being like, man, y'all really missed me. You know,
it's like you're really kept love from me. You know,
it just wouldn't saying it or even with that deal
of just doing little things like se didn't be money
(52:07):
anything like that. It was like we need you, and
I guess she just nice and doing let you is
really low. I guess that says at all. Um. Yeah,
all I can say about that is again, thank you
(52:30):
for being here. I wish you all the blessings that
life has to offer. You know, I hope you lived
to be a great grandfather and a great great grandfather
and that everything goes your way. So thanks again for
sharing your story, and to all of you, Malcolm Jr.
And Vanessa, thanks again for being here and you've been
listening to a truly extraordinary man and an amazing episode
(52:54):
of Wrongful Conviction. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Don't
forget to give us a fantastic review. Wherever you get
your podcasts, it really helps. And I'm a proud donor
(53:16):
to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll join
me in supporting this very important cause and helping to
prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocence Project dot org
to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like
to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wardis.
The music on the show is by three time OSCAR
nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on
(53:37):
Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast.
Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam is a production of Lava
for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one
America has two point two million people in prison. If
just one percent is wrong, that's twenty two people. That's
a lot of people's lives destroyed. If the system wants
to take you out of society, they will do it
no matter what lords they have to break, saying that
(00:23):
they are enforcing the lords, but they're breaking the lord.
Having to hear those people say that I was guilty
of a crime that I did not commit, and then
here my family break down behind me and not be
able to do anything about it. I can't describe the
crushing weight that was. I'm not anti police, I'm just
anti corruption. A lot of times we look and we
(00:46):
see something happened to somebody, and that's the first thing
we said, that could never happen to me, But they can.
This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with
(01:16):
Jason Flam Today, I have a truly extraordinary guest, a
gentleman named Malcolm Alexander, who was released from prison three
weeks ago after serving almost thirty eight years for a
crime he did not commit. Louisiana inmate is a free
man this afternoon after he was clearing of a rape
(01:37):
that happened back in nine st Judge throughout fifty eight
year old Malcolm Alexander's conviction after defense attorneys argued that
Alexander's trial lawyer failed to point out the victim has
been doubtful when she identified him. Alexander spent thirty eight
years at Angola for the crime. Malcolm, welcome to the show.
(01:57):
And with him today is his son, Malcolm Jr. Who
is forty years old. He was too at the time
that his father was sent away. So Malcolm Junior, welcome
to wrong for Conviction. And we have a return visit
from one of Malcolm's extraordinary lawyers at the Innocence Project,
(02:18):
Vanessa Potkin, who is the director of post conviction Litigation. Vanessa,
welcome back, Thank you for having me. Great to be here. So, Malcolm,
I want to go back to the beginning, before this
whole insane saga started. Let's go back to where you
grew up and how you grew up and what your
(02:39):
life was like as a child as a young man. Well,
very simple, sir, play sports and George biking, done a
lot of fishing. What kind of sports? I mean, you're
a pretty big guy, look like you might play some football,
played a lot of football. Came up from Junior High
Too High playing football, went to John Eric Wordly Middle School,
(03:02):
and I left from Worrely Middle School, went to West
Jefferson High. From West Jefferson High went to Joan Eric
And after that, yeah, yes, I just went into the
working world. What were you working at? My seperate jobs,
it was like a oncet. I worked for International Tank Terminal.
(03:23):
I worked for Fleet Company. I worked for Golf Central Road.
There's a lot of jobs for a guy who is
still just a teenager. Really at the time. Right, you
had your son, Malcolm, who is sitting here in Malcolm Jr.
Sitting here with you know you had him when you
were very young, Yes, sir, I had him actually a
lot of scaling uh high school. And that's the kind
(03:46):
of reason why I had all the job because I
was playing football plus working at the same time. Right,
So you had a very busy life. We had a
good life, yes, sir, And you got a great son
out of it. Was now a man obviously grew up
without his father. And of course now I got to
just get this out. You have a grandson, Malcolm the third, sir.
(04:09):
It's amazing your grandson is twenty, which is the same
age that you were when when you were locked up.
It's unbelievable. I mean, that really gives a sense of
the timeline and going back and we were talking like
who is president when you were locked up? I think
we were doing quarter time. Jimmy Carter was the president. Wow,
(04:32):
that does give a sense of of how long ago
it really was. So how did this happen? And then
we turn to Vanessa for a second. Can you take
us through how this began and why it was allowed
to continue when there were so many obvious signs that
he wasn't the guy. Sure. In nineteen seventy nine, a
(04:54):
woman was minding an antique shop that she had just
opened when a black man that she had never se
before came into the store and basically attacked her from
behind at gunpoint, took her into a small bathroom in
the back of the store, where he sexually assaulted her
twice and then fled. And this was the rape of
(05:14):
brutal rape of a white woman by a black male
in the Deep South in ninety nine. And we'll get
into the fact that there was a cross racial identification
or misidentification, which we know is a is a huge
problem because scientific study after study have proven that our
memories are totally fallible. In this case, the identification was
(05:35):
made four and a half months after the crime, right,
and good luck trying to remember what you were doing
four and a half months ago or any details of that.
But then when it's across racial identification, of course the
odds of a correct result go down dramatically, and this
had all of those factors right, that's right. The victim
in this case was attacked in an antique store that
(05:57):
she had just opened. It was early in the day
and a man came in with a gun. Most of
the attack happened from behind, and it was at gunpoint.
We know weapon focus is also a big issue in
misidentifications because when a crime happens with the weapon, people
tend to look at the weapon, not the person who
was holding the weapon, and really be focused on what's
(06:18):
happening there. So the assailant came into the store armed
and the victim was held at gunpoint throughout the entire attack,
and then the perpetrator fled, so she had a very
limited opportunity to to see the person who did this,
and over four months went by with no identification. Made
or you know, no suspect in the case. Unfortunately, in
(06:41):
March of nineteen, Malcolm Alexander had a consensual relationship with
a white woman and it turned out that she was
a sex worker and wanted money from him, and when
he didn't give her the money, she made a false
allegation of rape, and that charge was immediately smith. It
was not pursued at all. Absolutely, the police found no cooperation,
(07:04):
they didn't pursue it. But the lead officer who responded
to that case had also been the lead officer on
the nineteen seventy nine rape in the antique store. And
so when Malcolm Alexander came in and told police exactly
what happened and made a statement, the officer said, hmmm,
and this isn't the reports. You know. There was something
(07:26):
about him that reminded him of the previous incident that
by now had been unsolved for you know, just about
four months from our take. The only thing that similar
between both incidents is that the victim was white. Otherwise
they were completely different than the perpetrator was black. Correct,
and well, there was no perpetrator in the ones. In
both cases, it was a sexual event. What you want
(07:47):
to call it between a black male and a white woman.
But other than that, there is one was consensual, one
was not. There's no similarity. That was just a terrible
coincidence that happened to put Malcolm in the crosshairs of
the parties, right, I guess coincidence or racism on the
part of the investigating officer both both. And once he
was put into the photo ray, then the factors that
(08:10):
you were discussing before kick in, and you know, this
is night and the lead detective is administering the photo ray,
which we know today by best practices, is not how
it should be done. That should be a blind lineup
where the person conducting the ray doesn't know who the
suspect is, so they can't intentionally or unintentionally conveyed cues
to the eyewitness as to who to pick. But the victim,
(08:33):
she picked him out tentatively and said she wanted to
see him again in person. So three days later they
didn't in person lineup, and Malcolm was the only person
from the photo array who was repeated in the in
person lineup, right, which again is going to be a
very suggestive protocol. Malcolm, what was going on in your head?
Because here you are one day, you're working on several jobs,
(08:56):
you're playing sports, you're raising your family, and and you
get arrested. Did you even know about this crime? Had
you heard anything about it? Was it talked about in
the neighborhood? No, sir. And actually when I was approached
about it, I volunteered to go to the lineup because
I was actually sitting in the parish waiting to get
out on bill. And when they approached me about this
(09:17):
crime here, and they asked me what i'd be willing
to appear in front of the lineup. I know I
hadn't done anything, you know far as in that case
there what they're talking about. Someone else said that I
may have raped them, But all the time I know
I hadn't reaped in and wanted the beginning. And then
she picked you out of the lineup, That's what I
was told. So you weren't even made aware of it
(09:40):
at that time, no, sir. So what happens next? All right?
I think it was the next day that came back
and booked me or something like this. Here the attorney
that I had with me at the lineup, his name
was Ralph Burnett, and I wind up dismissing him. He
was another pairing attorney who asked the questioning to me,
(10:02):
do I go around raping on white women? So I
had to uh just miss him. I called my parents
and explaining to my parents what was happening, and I
guess to let him know what that he would fire it.
And that's when we went and got Joe Tosh with
the way in the fact that Joe Tosh and Robert
(10:24):
Burnett was actually working out the same office. It didn't
even know that, sir. I mean, that sounds like an
office from hell. Because this guy Tosh was one of
the most incompetent and even evil characters that the American
Bar Association has a level ever allowed to become a lawyer.
(10:44):
How he became a lawyer in the first place as
a mystery, But the fact is that he was later
disbarred for such egregious misconduct or whatever you want to
call malfeasance and competence. And in your case, it actually
bears read because it defies the imagination to see what
is possible in our criminal justice system. And I'm going
(11:06):
to read something here. He repeatedly failed to appear in court,
missing both the arrangement and the sentencing that alone is
giving me the chills. It's just shocking. I mean, how
can a lawyer not show up? It's just I mean,
and there and there you are probably wondering, where's my
lawyer at right? How does anybody would be Okay, take
(11:32):
a second here. He also failed to file important and
basic pleadings with the court. He never challenged the circumstances
of the identification, which would be lawyering one oh one, Vanessa.
The list goes on. He did not prepare an opening statement,
failed to properly cross examined witnesses, sometimes asking no questions
(11:52):
at all, and gave just a four page closing argument
and then, as if to put an explain nation point
on this whole nightmare scenario of American jurisprudence. Despite explicitly
telling Malcolm and his family that he would appeal to
the decision, he never did so. Um, this is hard
(12:14):
probably for a lot of people to believe that in
the situation in which literally your life is in this
guy's hands, because you were facing and ultimately were given
a sentence of life at hard labor with no possibility
of parole, and this guy didn't even bother to do
(12:37):
things that any first year law student would have done. Um,
and it's a terrible failure that nobody steps in, and
there's got to be someone who's gonna go, wait, this
is not okay, and that should have happened in your case.
There should be some check and balance where when an
attorney fails so terribly it doesn't take years and years
(13:00):
and years and then wait for the guy to get
this barred after he screws over so many other people too.
I mean, God knows the trail of destruction and misery
that he left. How many more Malcolm Alexander's are out
there that had the terrible misfortune and not only be
wrongfully accused and arrested for something and charged, but then
to be represented misrepresented by this small evil man. Um,
(13:27):
it's uh, this is America. That shouldn't happen. Mm hmmm.
So how long did you have to wait for your
trial to start? Think about three months? Because um, it
(13:52):
was a time that uh, I actually went to Jackson,
Mississippi for the criminal and saying for a little while,
they're trying to buy time to get a lawyer to
investigate the case. Because at some point in there he
was explaining to me about the date that the crime
happened on, and then by time I made back, then
(14:14):
you're telling me about it happened on another date. And
at the time I was working, so we was trying
to establish me an alibi, my my family and us
to get with my boss to show the lawyer because
he really wasn't doing know what we call leg work,
and the information he was kind of like giving us
about the case wasn't really never measuring up because we
(14:35):
discovered that after him constantly saying the date was off.
So we just couldn't necessarily afford to go and get
another lawyer just like that, and I had made a
decision about had actually having my own paid attorney, So
just one thing led to another, and I just wound
up sticking with him, and my boss, who I was
(14:57):
working for doing contract work with, he like, what's going on?
His question asked, what was the lawyer actually saying the
date that it happened on that Pacific date? Because he
had wanted to come to cold and testify that much.
We did run by the lawyer, but there was something
that he just never follow up on. So your boss,
(15:20):
who would have been probably a very believable witness as
somebody who was a successful businessman and point people like yourself.
I never got the chance to get understand and tell
people where you really were that day exactly. And were
you aware at this time that this lawyer was really
selling you down the river? No, sir, not really, because
(15:41):
I went into the system trusting it, not believing that
you know, they actually can find me guilty or he
he got allowed me to be found guilty or something
I didn't do. And I considered, once all the facts,
is actually knowing about the case, you know it would
prove that I didn't do it. That seems to be
a common thread, right. You believe from the beginning that
(16:02):
the system would work for you because you knew that
you weren't there, you weren't the guy, and in fact,
you didn't even match the description as it turns out.
But it failed that every step of the way. And
there are so many things that just one thing could
have gone right and would have changed the whole outcome
of this thing, but instead everything went wrong. So the
day of the trial comes and you're still believing that
the jury is going to hear the facts and they're
(16:25):
going to recognize that there's a big, big mistake. You're
gonna go home to your family. So what was that
day like? Well, I'm sitting there, me and my family
and the lawyer and let's see, I'm listening to him
call witness who testified, asked her, well, this investigating the
(16:47):
met this week we was calling he had calling that
and there getting like a narrative of the events that
it was taking place, that surround the crime, where it's
going to the sea, collecting every dance. And then we
got over to the doctor where they brought up to
the hospital. Then we went to the doctor who exambled
(17:07):
her and he gave his findings and stuff like this
here in some way and there he's more or less
repeating thanks what she said, more than actually gave his
expert analysis of the test results and stuff like that.
But I'm listening to all this show, but then nothing
actually is printing the thing at me until we got
(17:28):
to the final stage when we went to talking about identification.
So I'm saying, well, just the only thing they're talking about,
this identification that actually connected me with this. We had
no other witness, no nothing, I mean, no finger press,
no blood tests, nothing, nothing but identifications. So I'm saying,
(17:49):
all right, let's see and the rest of the fact
that the only evidence against him was I witness identification
months and months after the fact. Had you been representing him,
what would you have done well, I would have challenged
the idea. I mean, there was a lot that the
(18:09):
lawyer could have done based on the actual facts of
the case, the fact that the victim did not have
a good opportunity to view the assailant, that the attack
happened from behind, that the assailant had a gun to
the victim's head throughout most of the attack, and like
Malcolm said, there was just a very vague description of
the assailant, you know, just basically general height, general appearance, race,
(18:31):
but you know, nothing specific. And the victim's identification came
over four months after the crime happened, in these suggestive
identification procedures where he was repeatedly shown to the victim.
And what's most important is that the second time the
victim was shown Malcolm was in this live lineup, and
even that second time through that suggestive procedure, she was
(18:55):
not positive that he was the assailant. Her identification was
documented as possible and tentative, and that was the lineup
report that was prepared by the officer who conducted the
identification procedure. What happened to the guilty beyond all reasonable
doubt thing, Well, that is just not what happened here.
(19:15):
I mean, it's just it's so enraging, as you said,
to listen to this story and to kind of relive
it again with Malcolm, because here he is twenty years old.
His life is at stake, right, He's gonna be sentenced
to life with no possibility parole, which is the mandatory
sentence in Louisiana for aggravated rape, which just means any
type of rape with force. And so he's on trial
(19:38):
for his life and his lawyer is not doing anything.
I mean, imagine your first lawyer says to you, do
you like raping white woman? It's like who that's your defender,
that's supposed to be your advocate against the government coming
after you with all of the resources that it has
to prosecute you for this crime. And then he goes
to trial and his trial last one day. In one day,
(20:00):
they pick a jury, have opening statements, present all of
the evidence. I mean not opening statements by Malcolm's lawyer,
but the state. They present all of the state's case,
the defense doesn't call a single witness. The jury deliberates
and returns the verdict. You know by six pm. It's
insane that justice. Yeah, one day, you're really right to
(20:21):
put that in very stark, you know light, because one
day that's what Malcolm's life was worth. Two pretty much
everybody in that courtroom, right, even his defender, he didn't
want to be bothered. Obviously, he didn't show up, he
didn't do any research, he didn't call any witnesses, he
didn't do anything that he was supposed to do, and
any I keep harping on that because it's madness. And then,
(20:42):
like you said, one day and everybody go home and
go get somebody and watch the news and go to
sleep or whatever they do. Right, and he goes off
to prison for the rest of his life. And it
takes thirty eight years to unravel this disaster and to
bring him back home to where he belongs. I want
to get to you in a minute, Malcolm Junior, because
I mean you were you were just a baby at
the time. Were you even aware of any of this stuff?
(21:05):
Because you were between two and three while this was
taking place, right, who took care of you during this
time between my mom and grandmother and grandfather and my
mom mom. So all my grandmother's, my mom my ain'ties.
They all stepped up. And how difficult was it for you?
I mean, was there a stigma attached to it? Did
(21:25):
other kids have an idea that your dad was in prison?
And what did that mean? And how difficult was it? Well,
none of the kids knew. I didn't even know in
the beginning. But as I got older, desk, when I
became aware of you know, when we all go see him,
and I'm young, I'm wondering why he can't come with me,
you know, when you would go visit them and Gold. Yes,
when I go visit him and Gold. So, like I said,
(21:48):
going there from two years old, growing up, going there,
and as I got old, I'm like, he asked my grandmother, like,
my why my dad can't come? You know, so she'll
be like he coming, he just can't come right now.
So then as I got old, it's like, oh, this jail,
like my dad in jail. So because there nobody actually
(22:11):
fully told like sit down and told me your dad
is in jail. So I just had there as I
got order figure it out on my own, and and
then it's like, man, what my dad in jail for?
You know? So I'm getting bits and pieces. And then
as I got older, and still they talked to him
like like my my uncles and my aunts and everybody,
(22:32):
like everybody in the neighborhood, like, man, your dad didn't
do that. You know. Once I got up in age
and they're talking about the case, like your dad and
never do nothing like that. They have to do is
race cars and play football and things like that. So
I never felt any you know, far as not believing
that he didn't do it, because everybody that ever knew
(22:52):
him always had something positive to sell about them, and that,
you know, they wronged him, and you know, things like that.
So you don't seem well, both of you, neither one
of you seem angry. I mean, did at any point
did you become angry at the system because you knew
that your dad was in this. And we've seen different cases.
We've been people on the show where their children actually
(23:13):
thought they were guilty because they were told that the
father was guilty or their mother. But how did you,
how did you process that? I don't know, I feel
like I would have been very angry. Yeah, yeah, I
was mad growing up with with your dad not there
and he missed in your life and you get them
folks in the role you'll be neating you your dad
in the house and that father figure. So he always
(23:35):
was in my life talking to me over the phone,
but that's not him in the presence of being there
to be able to put his foot down in things
that when I'm getting out the way with my mom
all doing things I shouldn't be doing, you definitely need
your dad there. So, yeah, I was mad. Let's go
back to the trial day. There's this one day trial
(23:56):
and now it's getting to be late afternoon, early evening.
Did or he goes out. They deliberated I think for
less than an hour, right, less than an hour? Yeah,
they come back. Did you believe at this point having
now seen the whole day's proceedings, and you get a
sense when you're in that room you sort of make
some eye contact with the jurors and whatnot, Right, what
(24:18):
was going through your mind and what was that moment like,
uh when they came back into the court room. The
honest it was like a toss up because the lawyer
really didn't say much into my defense. I'm trying to
get you an idea of high ward for me. Really,
I could say it back then and opposed to high
(24:39):
see it now and make me know because I really realized,
you know a lot that he didn't do. It's all right,
But it was like, is this really happening? To be
honest withcher, I couldn't really believe that it actually taking place.
They actually couldn't believe that we had got this far
with it, right, because you should have never even been
(25:00):
on trial in the first place. We know that, well,
I don't want to minimize the idea of three months
in jail waiting your trial, But had it resolved at
that point, you could have gone on with your life
and piece things back together, maybe gotten your job back
and gone back to raising your family, etcetera. But then
there was that moment when they announced their verdict. It
(25:21):
was shocking. It was hurting because I remember my mother
busting out crying, my sister started crying, and my dad
had just hid. Then he looked on their face. Yeah,
I came. And remember even if the lawyer said everything
onna be all right or not and all, I can't
(25:42):
even remember that because really are paying attention more to
my family then, because thank you. See, thinking now, I
realized when I got found guilty, they got found guilty,
it just was more than just me. There was finally guilty.
And uh, once I actually stepped out their present, that's
(26:05):
when I started crying and really really say they and
affect me a lot of trying to remain strong for
them at that time. And then not too long after that,
I guess you were taken off to what is one
of the worst prisons anywhere in the world, really and
gola Um and it's really a slave plantation. And in fact,
(26:28):
from what I understand, you were actually made to pick
cotton in the beginning, right, which is an image that
is just mind blowing. Yes, sir, Yes, when I got there,
were still picking cotton. We're still picking oachres. We're stire
picking the corn, very the vegetable. And then they have
(26:48):
a two what they called a hole actually was a
tree branch with a piece of mellow on the end
that we was using to sprad the roads with a
tree branch with a piece of metal in it describe
the road, Yes, sir, So it's pretty much like a
change gang more or less. You don't think about it.
We didn't actually have to change us. We had to
(27:08):
cut gals and everything and a certain paramele. We had
to stay within. Here you are an innocent man, take
(27:31):
it away from your family and your life and everything else,
put into this basically hell on Earth. How did you
managed to persevered? What kind of strength does it take
to deal with almost four decades in that environment knowing
the whole time that you're innocent. Well, most people when
(27:53):
they go into the institution that discover it try to
adjust to the institution, but it's got pocketed inside the
institution that is educational and positive and by me. Actually,
alfway has worked. When I was in the free world
and going into that type of environment field work and
stuff like that, it was kind of that readjusting, And
(28:17):
I know it always was a place that I didn't
want to be, that I shouldn't have been in the
first player. So it was a question is what can
I do? How can I maintain that? Actually it would
help me to get out of here. And like I
always tell people, getting mad when they're gonna solve the problem.
I was somewhat angery in the beginning because I know
(28:38):
I wouldn't be here as common, but that didn't solve
my problem. So during my appeal stage and once it
was overwhere and went into my post conviction, we had
this lawyer who actually suggested, because we had to go
in and high and not a lawyer to do the peers,
we actually had this not a lawyer who suggested to
(29:00):
my parents that I could file my own post conviction.
So from that and when my parents mentioned that to
me and said that the lawyers said where you could
take time out by you being there and learning the
law and do your own post conviction and stuff like that.
And I didn't even get mad about that because it's
the truth, you know, that's started me, That's started me
(29:25):
into pursuing my freedom on my own. And how did
you find out about the Innocence Project? Right? One of
the prison magazines that I had received had the Innocent
Project addressing information you on it. So you just sent
off a letter and then and then how did you
find out? Did you get a letter back say and
(29:47):
we're gonna take your case? Yes, I did. I did
receive it, and it actually brightened me to be honest
withcher because I tried hard to contact other organizations and
trying to get them interesting in case. And Malcolm Jr.
How where were you during this time of this stuff.
Did he call you and say, hey, guess what, I
got some great news? Or you must have been trying
(30:08):
everything you could do as well to help him because
you knew he was innocent as your dad and I
can see you love him. So yeah, I had got
a couple of lawyers myself once I got up in
age and went to making money. Ain't nothing he called for.
I didn't try, you know, we we we was trying
and investigators trying this, go talk to this one, you
know what I mean, putting my money up, me and
my grandmother gonna get this lawyer, that lawyer. So it
(30:32):
is whatever he needed. I was there and was willing
to do whatever it takes to try. But when he
called and said, hey, man, they found some evidence. Because
he had been writing down into Jefferson Paris for the
years and years and years with new evidence. And when
he called and said and they said they found some evidence,
and we were like, oh yeah, you know, we were
just very excited about that. And then also when he
(30:54):
said that the Innocent Project is going to take the
case again, he said, man, we're good, we're straight, I'm
gonna be there. And this was just in the beginning.
We were just so happy about that, you know, just
I was very happy and please, yeah, Vanessa, back to you.
So originally, when the inst Project got involved, the evidence
was nowhere to be found, right, So um, you know,
(31:15):
Malcolm really reached out in the early days of our history,
and in nine six we started working on his case
and a law student reached out to the court clerk's
office that was supposed to have all the trial exhibits,
and I think it was in an earlier day of honesty,
got a letter back saying we inadvertently destroyed all of
the evidence. We shouldn't have. It was a mistake. Today
(31:38):
they probably would have just said, yeah, as lost, we
can't find it, but they actually copped to the fact
that they had destroyed it. Just a couple of years
after his trial, you know, LUNTI, he was still on
post conviction. So there was seem an evidence that had
been left that we could have tested, but it had
been destroyed. And so we because we were just focused
at the time on DNA cases, we closed out Malcolm's
(31:59):
case and nine D six, but he didn't give up.
You know, he kept on filing motions. He kept on,
as Malcolm Jr. Said, reaching out to the officials in
Jefferson Parish. And so his persistence paid off in two
thousand thirteen when they responded to him and said, actually,
even though all of that evidence at the courthouse had
been destroyed, there was some hairs that had been collected
(32:20):
from where the victim was raped, and those had been
kept at the lab. So they found this envelope that
would turn out to be the key to his freedom.
Are there rules for the safeguarding and the storing safe
storing of evidence from cases around the country, So unfortunately,
there are no uniform rules. Some states have preservation laws
(32:42):
that require evidence to be held onto but in some
states it's perfectly fine to destroy evidence after a direct appeal.
So that's something that has to be changed. I mean,
how can we have somebody in prison and destroy evidence
that could one day, you know, show that we got
it wrong. And we know that technology constantly evolves, so
(33:03):
there's just no reason to be destroying biological evidence that
could cut to the truth in a case. It could
not only prove that the person that's in there is
their own but could also show who the right one
is and then do society a big favor by getting
that predator off the streets. So back to you, So
now here it is again, like I said, I mean,
what a roller coaster ride, because after sixteen long years,
(33:26):
you get the golden tickets, so to speak, right the
instance projects taking your case. Then you get the huge
disappointment finding out that the evidence, which is what you
need in order to be able to prove what you know,
is gone. That would be the time when it would
have been convenient for you to just say, you know what,
I give up. I can't. I mean, who can. The
(33:48):
highs and lows are insane, But seventeen more years you
persisted until one day two thousand and thirteen, after thirty
three years, and even that's five years ago now because
we're in two thousand eighteen. Obviously it's remarkable. I mean,
it's uh, it says a lot about you. I don't
know who could who could do that? You're doing this
(34:09):
hard time in the best way that you possibly can, right,
doing positive things, staying close with your family, fighting to
prove your innocence. And then three weeks ago on January
two thousand eighteen, almost thirty eight years a lifetime. Okay, Um, yeah,
(34:33):
let's just process that. What was that day? Like, No,
so I actually was in the coat room when I
found out, and really I was fighting back to tales.
It almore went through I got I'm staying I went
through a life I deny you. And when I say,
like Eric Corner, that I would turn no matter whether
(34:54):
I was writing or even wrong, I just say right,
because I knew I was right on the right trio.
I was always constantly being told that you know, it's wrong,
it's not gonna happen. You know, we deny and we
deny and we deny you and be honest with you.
My true freedom date date that I knew that I
(35:14):
truly was gonna get out when Mr Vanessa actually believe
in me being innocent, and she always told me then
that she will be with me to the end. And
if I told her people such as just it's remarkable
or irreplaceable. And that's when I believe that I was
(35:35):
gonna get out, that's when you believed and and that's
a very powerful statement. Um, but then you went to
court and this is the opposite. Now right now, we're
thirty eight years later families there. Yes, Sir Malcolm Jr.
Were you there that day? And you were there, Vanessa right.
It was actually an incredibly stressful day because we had
(35:58):
done DNA testing in Malcolm's case, and as of July
two thousand and seventeen, we had some indications from the
prosecutor's office that they were recognizing that this was a
erroneous conviction and would potentially be moving with us to
vacate the conviction. But it was seven excruciating months of
(36:19):
getting to that point, and even as of the morning
of January, we were not certain that they were going
to vacate the conviction. So when Malcolm says he learned
that he was being exonerated in court, he really did,
because we didn't know as of that morning what was
going to happen. And it was incredible pressure because Malcolm
(36:42):
was in court, he had been waiting on the quote
unquote one yard line for seven months. His entire family
was there, and we didn't know whether they were going
to agree or ask for more time. Okay, so now
back to you, welcome, Okay, So you're there, Vanessa stre
Us and out Um. I know the family has got
(37:03):
to be on ten, right, stress level and you're there,
You've seen everything. Now, so what happened? How did it
come down? Ah? How do you ways saying waken up
from a coma? I mean it was like it happened
(37:24):
to be alive. I mean everything that I actually ever
went through preparing myself for this one day, it was
all worth it. I mean, keeping clear, not getting any trouble,
learning much as I can learn. I mean, just preparing
myself to one day actually returning to society. Would she
(37:46):
finally said that she had to say my immediate release. Yeah,
it was like it did it mean? Like did she
really see immediately because of thinking my head to go
back to a gola? I thought you're gonna sen me
back there in gola. Um. But so those were the
(38:09):
words the judge said. There was some arguments back and
forth whatever, and then the judge said, what I mean,
it's unfortunately not what you would want it to be
in every way, because you want the state to say
on the record we're sorry. You want the judge to
publicly acknowledge all that has been robbed from Malcolm and
(38:29):
his family who were there in court. And while everyone
was cordial and the conviction was vacated it. Certainly it
wasn't what he was owed at that moment, but he
was getting out and so there was a big sense
of joy. And his mom was in the courtroom and
probably twenty or thirty family members at least. That's must
have been a raucous And what did you do? Did
(38:51):
you turn around and and did you jump for joy?
I stayed pretty calm. I stayed pretty comb I don't
know I can explain it. It's just the institutional life.
It prepares you for moment slect that. It's kind of
like it don't take your spirit, but it makes you
(39:14):
live a hart of life, not your emotions so much. Yeah, well,
let me get the family perspective from Malcolm Jr. Because
you're sitting there in the courtroom with the twenty or
thirty family members, however many it is, but it's your dad.
There's nobody closer to Malcolm in the courtroom than you
because yours blood. So what was your reaction and what
(39:37):
was the family's reaction? I mean, did you even believe it? Uh? Well,
I'll tell you what. We droned for joy. You know,
we were very excited and uh were, like she said,
it was she we were sitting there just waiting and waiting,
and we didn't know if it was going to happen
that day. But when it did, yeah, we we we
we just jumped and clapped and laughed and cried whatevery,
(39:59):
you know, just surreal, like I just couldn't believe that
they had came. So yeah, we were. It was excited,
very excited. And then did you just walk right out
into the daylight? And where did you go? Went down
to booking. I had to have a change of clothes
and everything, and they had to like process me out
(40:21):
and from that, Yeah, at the signs, some released paper
and then they let me go. They finally let me go.
Was it an hour or three hours? How long did
that whole process take? I think about an hour and
a half. And everybody was there waiting for you when
you when you came out and walked down the steps
(40:42):
like in the movie or something like that, And that
was the true exciting moment. Beautiful was a beautiful day,
son was out and everything and a nice little breeze blowing.
I would remember that. I mean it was beautiful, all
of us out there waiting on men standing and welcome me. Yeah,
I mean that's you remember, you think I remember just
(41:05):
when the joy say, you know, reverts free and stuff
like that. But to actually step out into society, into
the free world and breathe again and not worry about
all that prevent life. Where did you go? I went
to an innocent project off over the land, get their
(41:26):
in view, you know, say hello, thanks everyone there more
or less, then tell around and when UH got me
something to eat? Actually we got me some seafood, actually
said there and enjoying it? Did we eat some friedbrry
that night? Yeah? And the uh wife that COLI on
(41:47):
that late that night, my son wife make a frieberry
that my mother UH told her to make that I
grew up on eating, and uh she made me some
fribrary and I always wanted to eat some home bib friberry.
Oh so fried red Okay. And the seafood. I can't
imagine how good that takes after thirty eight years of
no seafood. Right, they're not giving you any seafood and
(42:07):
their goal, no, sir, now like you would think, we
it's really more like fish paddies. And if you actually
get to ever see a shrimp and all, you know,
like you probably say far in between. Yeah, I hear that.
Do you have a memory from those almost four decades
in prison? Was there a worst moment from all the
(42:29):
time you were locked up? Yes, sir, actually witness and
really experience a lot of not caring yuh like I
see to be in a place where that's truly no
emotions being showed. Everybody like smothering the actually the way
(42:50):
they feel and walking around asked, you know, I'm not
to be touched, I'm not to even be spoken to. Uh?
Is it is? It kind of nerves setting troubling me,
and you really want to get out of here, You
want to find a way to get away from that.
(43:13):
It's not a society as this society. It's a side
of the way. It don't breathe criminal. It just takes
the It strips you up your emotions, It makes you
suppress your emotion and and then you replace with uh,
(43:39):
I don't care. I mean it was probably a numbing
routine of just one day after another, weeks bleeding into months,
bleeding into years, bleeding into decades. But was there in
that routine? Was there one day of the week that
was better? Was there a day when there was any
any differentiation where not necessary. Oh wait, just on a
(44:01):
Friday that we realized once we get off that Friday,
we really had the next two days to relax, too
late for our self because you didn't have to work,
that we didn't have to work. And that's kind of
like became a lot. I was specialty. I was privileged
(44:22):
that we actually went to work and worked the five
days for the weekend for them two days to relax,
just like being on the outside, with the difference being
that in the goal, you're making somewhere between two cents
and twenty one cents an hour, right, yes, sir, yeah,
because we've heard about how they pay some people four
cents and keep two cents as attacks. Um. So now
(44:46):
you're here in New York, and you know, obviously we're
super happy to have you here and and seeing the
sights and and and running around like a movie star
or something like that, right, going to shows and restaurants
and whatnot. It must be just a surreal experience all
the way around. Is if says it seemed like a dream,
(45:07):
it does because everything I had explained that I would
like to do and see, I'm actually have an opportunity
to do it. I never actually had opportuned to leave Louisiana,
and none of that I have been afforded. Is it's like,
really that dream coming true. Even flying on the plane
was my first experience ever in life. Well, that's gonna
(45:31):
be a trip before we wrap up, and I want
to give everybody a chance to say some last words,
and I'll start with you, and I hope you'll talk
a little bit more about the problem with cases in
which I would just identification is the only evidence, and
how people should approach that when they're called to be
(45:53):
on a jury, and how they should interpret that, especially
in a case like this where it's across racial identification. Absolutely.
You know, we know so much more today about the
problems with memory and eyewitness identification, and it is the
leading cause of wrongful convictions in the DNA cases in
(46:15):
Louisiana right now. Unfortunately, they have not adopted reforms that
we know could lead to a reduction in mistaken eyewitness identifications.
And so that's an effort of the Innocence Project and
Innocence Project New Orleans to try to make sure that
Louisiana adopts reforms that could reduce wrongful convictions based on misidentification,
(46:38):
and just in general, you know, we should take a
step back in the criminal justice system and say, you know,
are we willing to send people to prison based on
an eyewitness identification alone that has no corroboration? I mean,
what do we do in those cases where the only
piece of evidence is an eyewitness identification, a piece of
evidence that we know is very unreliable. All so we
(47:01):
need to enact reforms. When people are our juries, they should,
you know, really understand that even though this type of
evidence is convincing. You know, if you have an eyewitness
who points the finger and says that's the person who
raped me, they may believe it. They probably genuinely believe it,
and they've come to believe it, but that doesn't mean
that it's right. And mistaken Eyewitness identification happens at alarming rates,
(47:26):
and we have to look at the conditions under which
the identification was made. We have to look at the
process under which the identification was made and make sure
that it wasn't suggestive. And we need to rethink about
indigent defense in this country. I mean, Malcolm did hire
a lawyer, but the lawyer he hired was based on
very limited means I'm glad you brought up the thing
(47:48):
about the indigent defense because you talk about a broken system.
Last year in New Orleans, the public Defenders handled approximately
twenty tho cases, so that, if you do the simple math,
is about four hundred cases per person per lawyer, and
courts are closed on the weekends, so that means they
(48:10):
were processing. And I say processing because it's really more
processing than representing one and a half clients per day.
So when you really think about it, what kind of
time did they have to spend? And in fact, the
head of the Public Defenders Association down there, I forgot
it's called actually refused to let his lawyers handle any
felony cases until he gave him more lawyers because he said,
(48:31):
I'm not going to just process people into prison. It's
a very principled stand. I think they ended up giving
him like eight or nine more lawyers. I mean, it's
a drop in the bucket, but at least it's a
little bit better. But yeah, that's the system that we're in.
And as long as we're in that system, there's going
to be another Malcolm Alexander every day, every hour. You
just don't have a shot. You don't have a shot.
(48:52):
So before we get to the star of our show,
for the closing thoughts, Malcolm Jr. You've been through so much.
I would love to get any anything that you want
to share with the audience about, you know, any thoughts
you have it all. There's never give up on your family.
You know, it'd be a it would be a rough
role going through that and seeing someone you love that's
(49:13):
incarcerated like that, knowing that they are innocent, and you
have all kind of mixed emotions Like I said, you'd
be mad, you'd be sad, and everything else and all above.
But just stay prayed up and just keep hoping and
wishing us something to break. And thanks to the Innocent Project.
I thank them for everything they have done for myself,
(49:35):
my dad and my family, putting him back in my
life because I never thought this dare come. So it's
just like unbelievable for me, for my grandmother, it's like
waking up to be to talk to him. I ain't
gotta be worried about waiting on the phone call and
just just out. You know, I'm forty now and he
went when I was two, But we still got a
(49:56):
lot of time that we can you know, sharing him
being if my son and so I'm just thankful that everybody,
you know, most of my family still here that to
enjoy him and uh, the rest of our life with him,
you know, so definitely happen for that your grandson will
get a chance to hear this. And is there anything
specific you want to say either about him or to him. Well, actually,
(50:20):
I've been out there life. I've been out their life
a long time, and for that, I'd like to apologize
not only to my son but also to my grandson.
And I like to see that I'm really proud of
my son for what he actually has done with his
life and sending it over to my grandson. He's done
(50:41):
well with my grandson, but I can't see no more
to either one of them outside the fact that really
I love him and being here with him, it's actually
gonna give me opportunity to show just how much I
really love him. And now out um the moment, we've
(51:01):
all been waiting for it. And what else can you
share with our audience? Well, he touched on something there is,
like I said, and being there, you know, you never
lose thought of your family, and especially important that your
family never lose the thought of you. So you like
(51:24):
setting a goal for yourself, and your goal is to
return back to your loved ones. But most of us
actually never like I said, I never felt I never
realized how much they had affect them. You know. I
guess I was so caught up in trying to get
back to him, I never took the time out to
(51:47):
think about how that affect them. And since I've been
out and being like, man, y'all really missed me. You know,
it's like you're really kept love from me. You know,
it just wouldn't saying it or even with that deal
of just doing little things like se didn't be money
(52:07):
anything like that. It was like we need you, and
I guess she just nice and doing let you is
really low. I guess that says at all. Um. Yeah,
all I can say about that is again, thank you
(52:30):
for being here. I wish you all the blessings that
life has to offer. You know, I hope you lived
to be a great grandfather and a great great grandfather
and that everything goes your way. So thanks again for
sharing your story, and to all of you, Malcolm Jr.
And Vanessa, thanks again for being here and you've been
listening to a truly extraordinary man and an amazing episode
(52:54):
of Wrongful Conviction. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Don't
forget to give us a fantastic review. Wherever you get
your podcasts, it really helps. And I'm a proud donor
(53:16):
to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll join
me in supporting this very important cause and helping to
prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocence Project dot org
to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like
to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wardis.
The music on the show is by three time OSCAR
nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on
(53:37):
Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast.
Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam is a production of Lava
for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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