November 20, 2019 • 33 mins
Bobbie Jean Johnson was given up for adoption at birth, survived abuse in foster care, and ran away into the sex trade of New Orleans as a teenager. In 1977, a New Orleans antiquities dealer, Arthur Samson, was shot in the stomach and stabbed approximately 100 times inside his shop at 1130 St Charles Ave. His store was ransacked, and the safe was missing about $2,000. A month later police stopped 2 men and Bobbie Jean Johnson for a traffic violation in a stolen car. At the time Johnson was not a suspect, but police were on the lookout for a .32 caliber revolver. They found one in Bobbie Jean’s purse. She endured a violent interrogation that resulted in a tape recorded false confession, riddled with inconsistencies. One of the men that had been in the car with Johnson told police that he had slipped the gun into her purse while they were being pulled over, but his statement was both ignored by the prosecution and hidden from the defense. To make matters worse, her trial lawyer, Thomas Baumler, had been described as a “warm body”. In 1978, Bobbie Jean Johnson was convicted of 1st degree murder and sentenced to life in prison. After serving 41 years behind bars, Bobbie Jean continued to maintain her innocence; however, she was forced to plead guilty to manslaughter and armed robbery in order to obtain her freedom in February of 2018. To make this story even more tragic, Bobbie Jean spent less than 18 months as a free woman before passing away.
Donations made to IPNO with the note “Bobbie Jean Johnson” will be matched dollar for dollar! https://ip-no.org/support/donate/ or can be mailed to P.O. Box 792808, New Orleans, LA 70179.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bobby Jean Johnson was given up for adoption at birth
and later molested while she was in foster care. She
ran away from that horrible situation and tried to survive
as a sex worker on the streets of New Orleans.
In nineteen seventy seven, an antiquities dealer named Arthur Sampson
was found dead at his Saint Charles Avenue shop. He
had been shot once in the stomach with a thirty
(00:23):
two caliber bullet, had stabbed over one hundred times. The
store was ransacked and safe was missing about two thousand dollars.
A month after the murder, Bobby Jean was writing and
what she did not know at the time was a
stolen car with two men. When they were pulled over
by the police for a traffic violation. One of the
men stashed a knife, a thirty two caliber revolver, and
Bobby Jean's purse. At eighteen years old, Bobby Jeane Johnson
(00:47):
was brought in for a violent interrogation that would change
the course of her already tragic and vulnerable life. This
is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction today. I
(01:08):
have a guest who is um one of the most
extraordinary people with one of the most insane stories that
I've ever heard. And she's also just a beautiful, beautiful person. Um. So,
Bobby Jean Johnson, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. As I always say,
I'm sorry you're here, but I'm glad you're here and
(01:31):
everyone will find out why. Um And with her is
Kat Forrester, who is the communications director for the Instance
Project of New Orleans, also known as Hypno and Cat.
Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. Thanks so much, happy to be here. So,
Bobby Jean was freed from prison two thousand eighteen after
serving forty one years in prison for a crime she
(01:52):
didn't commit. And this case has so many of the
hallmarks of the causes of wrongful victions that you know,
it's almost a clean sweep, so to speak. I mean,
there was misconduct, there was a false confession that you
were tortured into making. Incompetent defense. It's not even that's
not even strong enough of a word. And we're going
(02:13):
to get into that all of that. But we're talking
about the murder of Arthur Sampson, right, And this is
an extremely violent crime. This was a white man who
was an antiquities dealer in New Orleans who was shot
and stabbed a hundred times. I mean, that's a vicious,
vicious crime. And just to paint a picture for people
who are listening, how tall are you? You're five feet tall,
(02:35):
and you're not a big one. Wasn't that big at
the time. I was like ninety eight pounds, like and
I wall size zero paints. I could go with my
clothes out the children's section. So the whole thing makes
no sense just on a purely physical level. And Mr Sampson,
I mean, nobody deserves to die like he did. But
he was a sort of a dicey character anyway. Right.
(02:56):
He was known for bringing sex workers to his home,
which is one of the reasons why the logical suspect
would have been this woman who was a sex worker
who was the last person to see him alive. Yeah,
she was the last person he was seen with by anyone. Right,
So usually you know, we all watched those crime shows
on TV, you know, you go down that path at
(03:17):
least take a look, you know, but that's not what happened. Um,
what year was this by you were an eighteen year
old girl, yeah at the time, so what was going on?
You were living in New Orleans at the time. Yeah,
and I was like on drugs and stuff, right. So
one night we was riding in a call. It was
me and two other dudes were running call and the cops,
(03:39):
the police stopts for traffic of valation. Were you driving? No?
I wasn't driving all right. And at the time when
the police stopped us, that wanted the dudes that was
in the call with me, do the knife in a
gun in my person? So wouldn't because I know I
didn't have no knife and gun in my purse. So
when the police pulled all my stuff about my person,
(04:00):
he said, oh, we got a knife and the gun.
I said that it's not for me. But on they
took us to homotide On Division and they put us
in different rooms and kept question and I was in
questions and I kept tell him I don't know nothing
about I don't even know what his place is at.
And I heard this man and so I wanted the
dudes to do they put the gun in and I
didn't make a statement and said, app when y'all stopped this,
(04:22):
I put that knife in the gun. And Bob jeans,
that's not hos I did it. And he made a statement,
they just ignored a statement. I mean, cat, do you
think they knew at the time that they had the
wrong person, but they just wanted to clean up the
case and that was what was really going on. Yeah,
I think so. I mean, I think they had a
pretty viable suspect and they didn't follow any of the
leads and that other suspects case. UM. And I think
(04:43):
that so often, particularly you know, back in the seventies, eighties,
nineties in New Orleans. UM, particularly with black folks. I
think that they, you know, the cops got tunnel vision
and you know, when they found somebody and it seemed
easy enough to pin it on that person, you know,
even if all the evidence in the world pointed to
someone else. So often they just got tunnel vision and
(05:07):
um focused on one person and you know, force their
theory of the case to fit to that person. So
they knew, they knew that this guy had come forward
who admitted that he had a classy guy. By the way,
it's a cops coming. He's putting his his knife and
he's going to be your purse. I mean, that's a
hell of a thing. And when you were arrested and
if you're okay, even talking about it. I mean what
(05:29):
I've read about the interrogation that you went through, this
is like something out of you know, a bad movie,
or out of the torture that you read about in
in a foreign country or Abu grab, you know, something
like that. But I mean you went to the police
station and what happened, and then they put it in
separate rooms, and uh they kept throwing pictures in front
me and they say, uses him him. I said, well,
(05:52):
I've never seen that man before, the dead guy. You
had a dead man all the samson and then uh
one he had me in my face. He said, no,
listake or to the other room. So when they took
me to the other room, they still was asking me.
So when I kept saying I don't know. I can't
tell you nothing. I don't know, he said, oh, you're
gonna know, and he called me a black bee and
(06:12):
he put my hand, got me to the back behind
his like wooden chair and put a plastic bag over
my head. The chair fell back and they started kicking
me in my ribs and all over and hit me.
And he kept saying, black bee, Yeah, you're gonna tell
us because we know, you know, we know you know
he's said, because let me tell you, he said, ain't
number of police officers in this in the station right here,
(06:34):
and we could kill you and your family would never
know nothing about you. So I'm scared to that. And
so he said, come on, we're going bagging there by
the time, he said, you're gonna put on and if
you don't, you get some more. And I was scared
of that. I was crying and everything. I had five
police officers standing up behind me and one sitting down
who had the table carter and um, he said, now
you're ready, I said, I haint, I don't know that
(06:55):
he said. He turned the tape off and he said,
you're gonna repeat what I said, yeah, until minute. So
I was so scared. I did everything that was telling
me to put on put on, but it was a lie.
I did it because I was scared. Well, yeah, you
had a very good reason to be scared. I mean
that was certain everywhere and even after the j F
(07:19):
fail back with they was kicking me in my rooms
and everything. It was horrible and Jason, I just wanted
to say that, like the world had not been kind
to Bobby Jean before this all happened. You know, she
had had a really tough up upbringing, and it makes
so much sense that she would do anything to kind
of survive, right this, this brutal police interrogation and beating.
(07:43):
Thank you, Bobby. Um. Yeah, I just feel like the
world had not been kind to her, had not offered
her a lot of hope. Um. And I you know,
I think because I was I was given away with
my mama had me and I had to go on
(08:04):
like that. It was like I was scared, Oh world,
am I shoulder? So I just got out there and
I just wanted about it. Loved me and I just
wanted to be accepting and stuff. So whenever it took
for me to do that, I did it. And she
was she was a young a young girl, as you
keep kind of pointing out, you know, who was doing
(08:25):
the best she could with what she had. Um. And
then and then this thing happened to her, right yeah,
then this thing happened. This is you know, there's been
too many of these cases where we've learned that the
(08:46):
officers have threatened to kill the person unless they confess.
Johnny and CAPI A is one thing of a year,
I guess in Texas. There's too many of these. And
you know, Johnny says to me, he was on the
podcast and he said, um, he ask me, why would
I confess? And he was eighteen like you were, And uh,
he says, why wouldn't I confess? He goes, I wanted
(09:06):
to live? You know what I want? I just want
I wanted to live. I was a young girl eighteen.
You're really more of a child than a woman. I
mean at that point, you know, I mean, we know
that the adolescent brain doesn't fully develop until you and
here you are not just a younger but a little girl,
right um pounds like you said, in a room full
of big, tough guys who you would want to think
(09:28):
are gonna protect you, right, um. And in fact, they're
threatening in a very real way. Right. It's not like
it doesn't sound like an empty threat when they're putting
a plastic bag over and beating you and kicking you.
I mean, so, I don't think there's any question. And
I think it's so important that you're here, and I
really appreciate you. I know it's difficult for you. I
can see how difficult it is, but it's so important
(09:49):
for the public to understand that these false confessions happen
for a variety of reasons. Not everybody's tortured, but a
lot of people are psychologically coerced or their trad or
they're you know, confused. So yeah, in your situation, I
don't think anyone would probably behave any differently than you did.
But then what a difficult thing to live with. Two
Because knowing as you're going to prison for the rest
(10:11):
of your life that you are in a certain way
responsible because you you know, you admitted something that you
didn't do. But but her confession didn't match the facts
of the case anyway. No, she I mean she got
a lot of of it wrong. Um, I mean she
didn't get much of it right actually, And that's also
(10:33):
a typical thing in these false confession cases. After torturing
her for hours, the police were able to extract the
taped confession that was riddled with inconsistencies. According to that
false confession, Bobby Jeane and a woman named Kimberly Legan
had met Sampson in the French Quarter. Legan solicited him
for sex, then when he brought them back to his store,
(10:53):
and again back to the false narrative that she created
just to make the torture stop. She said, Bobby herself
at him once in the chest and once in the head,
and then her friend Legan stabbed him over one hundred times.
Then they robbed his store and sped off in a
stolen Pontiac grhand Prix. Now for the actual facts, Arthur
Sampson was shot only once in the stomach. Bobby Jean
(11:14):
described Sampson as being twenty years younger and a half
foot taller than he was. And lastly, the Pontiac grhand
Prix would not have made a good getaway car, as
it was not stolen until hours after the murder. The
man who had stashed the thirty two caliber revolver and
knife her person made a statement admitting to just that,
but that fact was inconvenient to the prosecution's narrative and
was therefore hidden from the defense. All of this could
(11:36):
have been brought up during trial if Bobby Jean had
adequate counsel. However, with no family and no backup whatsoever,
Bobby Jean didn't have a chance in help. Now you're
taking to jail. How long did you have to wait
for your trial? Eighteen months? Eighteen months in jail? And
I know how bad that must have been, because jails,
(11:57):
I mean, anywhere terrible, but in New Orleans. Um, it's infamous,
it is. Yeah, your trial was. Um, it was like
the combination of a bad dream and a bad joke
because the people who were supposed to be defending you
did nothing of the sort. And can you talk about that?
Yeah again, Um doing my trial, Um, my lawyer wouldn't
(12:21):
let me get understanding and talking my own defense. He
fell asleep through the trial. The lawyer was asleep. Yeah,
he fell asleep on the trial. I had to wake
him up. And he didn't do no opening um statements,
no opening statements, and no clue was in statements. And um.
One of the jewels stood up and state told the Joys,
(12:43):
I cannot give miss Johnson a fair trial because I
had a relationship with this man. The judic said, be
seated with the victim. Yeah, and he Um, Now I
know because when I was in prison, I took fairly
and I graduated from it. But my lawyers should have
called a mistrial. When that Jews stood up and he
didn't say not a wound, and the judge said, just
let's let's please proceed. I mean I've been doing this
(13:07):
work for over twenty five years, and I've heard a
lot of stories. I've never heard that before. I mean,
I've heard stories of yours that had but I never
heard a juror actually stand up and admit to you.
She raised her hand and she said, yeah, can I
get this lady a bit trial? Because I had a
relationship with Mr Samson, and so your lawyer was asleep,
you're waking him up. He made no opening statement, he
(13:29):
made no closing statement, and he didn't object didn't call
him miss trial. He made one objection throughout the trial,
to the admission of a photograph um. He has a
total of eight cross examination questions, the majority of which
dealt with the ballistics of the gun. No opening and
no closing, and he presented no case theory. He essentially
(13:50):
did nothing except Jake and ned. Yeah. I mean, he
didn't defend you so much as process you. Right when
I was in jail, when they appeared him to me,
he never came seeing me. Only time I seen him
was at court and sometimes when they would have court
days for me, but he wouldn't be there, so they
would postpone it so another day. Oh so that's why
(14:13):
I took eighteen months again to trial because he wouldn't
show up. He wouldn't show up. Did at any point
did you request a different lawyer? Did you even know
that you? I didn't know. I was young and I
didn't know, and you probably. I mean, I would think
in that situation, you know nothing about alone, right And
I would think again in that situation that you would
be worried if you did request when then you can
upset the only guy who's on your side right now?
(14:34):
Did you have any family in the courtroom with you
or anything like that? Nobody? Did you? All alone? Jesus
Christ took them less than an hour to come back
with a guilty verdict. Yeah. So when I got there,
(15:00):
at first, I wasn't because I was angry. I was
angry and I was hurt because when I was I
started fighting all this it didn't matter no more because
I had it was like, well, Baptine, you got a
life sentence, now, it's nothing you could do. You to
go on to die in this prison. But then I
started praying and praying and praying and won't. The last
(15:21):
fight I had, I remember, I was in the cell.
I just felt to my knees and I said, God,
just take my life. I'm I'm tired of living like this.
Take my life and do what you want to do
with it. And from that data this was I ain't
been the same. I grew up, I got more mature,
and I did everything I could do. They was they
was offering on the g D. So I know I
(15:44):
had been on the school a few months and stuff,
and I got in this trouble because I know I
was a small girl. I had just I hadn't graduated.
I dropped out at the eleventh grade. And um, so
I took the g D and I passed the g D.
It was giving grand self for introduction in the business
payroll accountant and pay league. First I took the pair
or legal one and I passed with a four partower. Yeah,
(16:08):
and I studied hard or I started hard because I
wanted it and I wanted I did everything I could
to rehabilitate myself in every kind of way. It was
nothing I didn't do positive in jail. I had fights
in jail because I was small, and they thought I
was scared of it, but I wasn't. And I had
fights with quite a few people. But I grew and amateure.
(16:33):
I did everything I know to do right. I was
a law curtin and all this in the prison. When
I got into the oh, the lord librry, I started
writing to everybody to try to help me. One day
my sister said, just sent me all your pavoits and
my British Innocent Project. And when I sent them all
to it, they got him and they started working on
(16:56):
my case immediately. Every two weeks they would be update
to see me and it tell me how the case
was going on. And then the day oh, I went
to quote on the sailing. I didn't even know I
had a quote on the day. Oh, it's it's if
having to get ready. You got a culture, I said,
a court rebound. You all. I have never taken me
back to court, so I didn't know what was going on.
(17:18):
So I said, okay. When I got drissed, it brought
me to call house and all my all Liam was
in the court room for me. A lawyers, yes, but
all my lawyers walked up with me to the podium
when I had to do the bleed in everything for
many long years, both the Promise of Justice Initiative and
the Innocence Project of New Orleans worked tirelessly on Bobby
(17:39):
Jeane's case, investigating leads, studying the evidence, and identifying the
inconsistencies in her violently courced false confession to eventually force
the District Attorney's office to offer a plea deal. The
deal was this her first degree murder conviction and life
sentence would be vacated, but Bobby Jean had to plead
guilty to manslaughter and armed robbery in order to be
(17:59):
re sentence to time served. Her attorneys also had to
drop any claims that the d a's office did not
turn over exculpatory evidence. This was not the outcome that
day or anyone who cared about Bobby Jean had hoped for,
but it was the only one that would set her free.
It's really sort of the last miserable aspect of this
(18:21):
case is the fact that even after all these years,
and even after it's been proven that you had nothing
to do with this, they still wouldn't admit their mistake,
right because they wanted to maintain the conviction. They want
to make sure you didn't get anything for it. So
the d A's office in New Orleans forced you to
take a plea just to sort of could be free,
(18:45):
as that was the only way that you take this
flee or you stay in for its right. I think
anybody would do what you did. And and Cat, I
want you to jump in here anytime, because I know
you're intimately familiar with this case, and I know how
proud you are of the work that as I am
as a supporter of Innocence Project New Orleans, I'm so
proud of the work that they did. And I'm so happy.
(19:06):
I mean, I saw those pictures when and I posted
on my Instagram, UM, which is at it's Jason Flam
as people know, but I posted the pictures of Bobby
Jean walking out of prison that day, and just my
heart was breaking or or or floated. I was breaking,
My heart was breaking, and I was floating in the air,
and it was a whole crazy thing. Can you shine
some light on this, Cat, because this this case is
(19:27):
bizarre even by our standards. Yeah. Absolutely so. It was
a case that we worked on for for several years. UM.
One of the attorneys in our office, Shrell Arnold, worked
on it for a long time and it ended up
being UM the Promise of Justice Initiative, incredible organization in
New Orleans who ended up freeing Bobby Jean and walking
her out of prison. But we were there because she was,
(19:49):
you know, the first female client who we had really
worked on her case for for for a long time
and had a really good lead and and and part
of that is because, as you know, Jason, I'm or
you know, women aren't often sentenced to life in prison
or long prison sentences, which is what HYPNO does is
free innocent life sentence prisoners. UM. And and women so
(20:12):
often are caught up in things that men do right there,
or they harm or kill their domestic abusers. UM. And
so this was you know, really exciting for us, I
think because it was the first time that we'd worked
with a woman, UM for a number of years. UM.
And of course Bobby Cheen is just incredible, and you know,
I think having her come home, UM, I actually came
(20:34):
and hung out with her in Atlanta when she got home,
and we went to the aquarium and UM started learning
how to use a cell phone and as as I think,
we showed you some pictures and UM, it was a
really incredible moment. I you know, can't imagine being incarcerated
for forty one years, no I mean, when you put
that in context, that's I mean, you were only eighteen
(20:55):
at the time, so that's twice as long as you
had been alive, plus another five years. I mean, it's
it's impossible, I think for anybody to comprehend who hasn't
been through it. Jesus, who was president when you went
to prison? I don't remember. I don't know Jimmy Carter
was president. That's god. Yeah, I mean it's a low time.
(21:21):
Most of the people who are listening to the show
weren't born yet. Um, and everything was different. Um. And
then you come out into a world where everybody's walking
around typing on their phones, cross's going everywhere, like there's
just everything is different. When I at my first phone
in my hand, was like, oh my god. Kay. She
(21:42):
had to show me everything, had to turn it on
and everything. First thing she wanted was an Instagram account. Yeah,
what is it? What is your Instagram account? I don't know.
She doesn't know, Bobby. So you walk out, I mean,
what what the difference? You? You go win as it's scared, brutalized,
(22:03):
young nineteen twenty year old woman, but eighteen when you
went to jail, um, and you come out as a
an accomplished, mature, fifty nine year old woman. You walk
out into a world that looks almost nothing like it
did when you went in. Its New Orleans don't look
(22:24):
nothing like it did when I went in. I mean
I almost forgot the names of the streets. That's how
definitely looked at me. Yeah. I had five five my
lowers with me, and it was just, I don't know,
it was a feeling I never had before. I used
to pray every night, God, you might only witness and
(22:46):
you know I didn't kill nobody, just open these doors
and help me. Every night I prayed that in my room.
It was so aw for me. Here we are at
the Innocence Network conference. By the way, how about this conference, Bobby,
(23:09):
It's amazing. Yeah. So we're here at the Innsence Never
Conference with about two hundred exonrees and six hundred UM
people activists, social workers, UM, civilians who want to get involved.
Two of them are in the room with us right now. UM.
(23:30):
We have lawyers here, we have experts on everything from
you know, false confessions to uh, you name it, and
uh it's an awesome, awesome thing. I mean, people are
connecting and strategizing and coming up with best practices and
helping each other. And yeah, I mean we have we
have thirty five new Exonorees here that we're on stage
(23:52):
last night saying and dancing and it was some crazy
scene and it's amazing, including you. Yeah, yeah, I are
you up there? How to feel to be up there?
Bobby Jane? It was it feel good? It felt good
for you to connect with the other axonorees. What is
that experience like? It's just like because I just don't
(24:12):
I said, I knowing it that many people there is
both convincious and it made me feel good to know
that I was. I was. I wasn't the only one.
Oh no, hell no, but I didn't know it at
the time. But it really feel good. And to know
how much love this we show to each other. Mm hmm. Yeah,
we ain't done yet. We're gonna be loving on you
(24:36):
for the well for the rest of the time, but
especially the less next twenty four hours, and we're all
gonna be here together. It's gonna be amazing. Um. And
I know that people are are so glad that you're here.
It's amazing, right, Yes, yeah, I mean, I'm so honored
to be here and be a part of this movement. Um.
I will tell anybody who's listening that, Um, you know,
(24:57):
I call it selfish altruism because I could cosider it
a privilege and an honor to get to be around
people like yourself and to be able to make some
small difference is uh, you know, it's the most rewarding
thing in my life. I mean, you know, obviously you know,
I'm a father and that's a tremendously important thing to me.
But beyond that, it's the most important work that I
(25:18):
can imagine being involved with. And you're a living proof
of it. And here we are celebrating you and celebrating
freedom and working on getting the next people out. And
and so now you're living in Georgia, in Georgia the
cat and what gives you join? Now? Do you have
any joy in your life now? I have to enjoy
in my life now because it's like living where I live.
(25:41):
I can come and go with exact please. Anybody could
come get me and like take me wherever they want,
seem like, if they want to take me out did
or whatever, I could do it. And they have a
lot of activities because I'm because I'm because of my age.
They have a lot of activities for all and I
always attended. They have the church service. I always attended
and they treat me good. And what is it thing
(26:02):
you do once a month, Bobby Jean, Oh, I'll go
to George's Innocent Project. I'm a man of the George's
Innocent Project and I never missed a meeting. I'm always there. Yeah.
They've really lovingly taken her into the agonary meetings that
happened once a month there so she gets to hang
out with other wrongfully incrstor to people who live in Georgia.
I see you got the shirt on Georgia. You go,
(26:25):
what did Geogia Innocent Project shirt? I say, yeah, I
don't have one for all if no where, I need
to get you a justice shirt. I know I have
a justice I think we can arrange that you got
that one. I got it, Okay. Perfect teamwork makes the
dream work. Um. So this is the part of the
show that is my favorite part because this is the
(26:48):
part of the show where I get to First of all,
I thank you well, thank you for having me, Bobby,
Geene Johnson and cat Forrester, thank you for coming and
sh especially Bobby obviously Bobby Team, for I know how
difficult it is to talk about these things, and it's
so important that you're here. UM, So you know, thank
(27:10):
you on behalf of me and all my listeners and
everybody in the Innocence Network. And then this is the
part where I get to stop talking, and UM, I
turned it over to you two fabulous ladies for final
closing thoughts. UM, and I think we should we should
(27:31):
finish with you Bobby, because UM, I want to hear
anything you have to say, any anything at all about
any subject. But first, Cat, what what are your closing thoughts.
I'm just so glad that we helped get her home.
And I was thinking about it because we're at the
aquarium last night for the Innocence Network dinner, and we
went to the aquarium right after she got out, and
(27:54):
to see the joy on her face, you know, at
like you know, seeing very cool fit um was just unparalleled. UM.
And I'm just so glad to have been able to
experience that with her and just see, you know, how
many new things she gets to explore in this life
(28:14):
now that she's a free, a free woman. Yeah, it
was amazing to me because the Querum. I would always
say that the short on't teel how I used to say,
I want to go there. I want to go there.
So when Cat him and she said, you want to
go to the Quirre. And when she did, it was
like a joy. A lot of George just jumped on
my face. I said, yeah, I want to go. I
wanna go Cat, I want to go see him. And
(28:35):
when I came seeing it was so beautiful. I just
it was so amazing out here. But Cat led me
all the way through and she was there, you have
nowhere has been there for me. I could call him
in any given time or whenever, and if it's a
problem I have, they would do their best to fix
or if I like sometimes I used to get depressed
(28:56):
and stuff and I used to call him me. It's tall.
And Angelique has been marvelous. Oh my gosh, she has
been great. She client services specialist. Yes, she has been great.
No matter what. If she can't call me back at
the time, she takes me back and say I'll call
you in a few minutes. Just hold long and um.
But it has been great and it's and I'm happy
(29:19):
to be home. I'm happy. I'm happy more happy now
than I've ever been in my life. I didn't I
never knew so much love and stuff, but now I do,
and it's it's great. It's just that they took a
(29:40):
lot of away from me. They took everything away from
me for nothing but something I didn't even do. I
lost everything. Oh, my youth was gone. And I just
want to thank you Jason for having me. Wow, We're
(30:02):
gonna be here for you too. Um, you have a
whole new family now. You got family members here now,
and you've got a lot more that are listening to
the show. And so um you're You're a brave and
strong and amazing woman and we're gonna support you in
every way we can. So um, so again, thank you
for being here, Thanks again for listening. Um, I'm gonna
(30:25):
go try to recover. That's what I'm gonna do. And
uh and and we'll see you next week. I'm wrong
for conviction. I have some devastating news to share. Um.
Bobby Jane Johnson, who I recorded this amazing, haunting episode with,
passed away. Um. It was unexpected. I'm no doctor, but
(30:49):
I can say that she died of the abuse and
neglect that she suffered at the hands of the State
of Louisiana during her forty one years of wrongful incarceration.
Bobby was an angel on earth. She was just a beautiful,
damaged soul who wanted nothing but to be loved and
to help others. And she was out less than eighteen
(31:12):
months when she died. And I bring that up because
it's a sort of a hidden and horrible truth. I
don't know the statistics nationally, but in the state of Louisiana,
approximately of axonorees die within eighteen months of their release
from prison. It's really hard for me to process this one.
We were planning Bobby's birthday party when we got the news.
(31:34):
She had called me and said that she called me,
Mr j She called me. She called me, she says,
mr Ja. She goes, you know, my birthday is coming up.
And she said in her little voice, because you know,
she's only about nineties something pounds, and she said, you know,
I've never had a happy birthday. And you know, that
(31:55):
really just messed my head up, as you can imagine.
So we began planning myself. Stacy Ryan, who mentored her
hero the band Um wonderful rock and roll band that
I work with from Atlanta. We all were putting our
resources together and planning a big, beautiful birthday celebration for
(32:16):
her in Atlanta, and you know, just a week before
it was supposed to happen, we got the news that
she was gone. So um, Bobby Jean, You're gone, but
never forgotten. Rest in power. Don't forget to give us
(32:37):
a fantastic review wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps.
And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and
I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very
important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go
to Innocence Project dot org to learn how to donate
and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team,
Connor Hall and Kevin Awards. The music in the show
(33:00):
is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be
sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and
on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason
Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and
association with Signal Company Number one
Bobby Jean Johnson was given up for adoption at birth
and later molested while she was in foster care. She
ran away from that horrible situation and tried to survive
as a sex worker on the streets of New Orleans.
In nineteen seventy seven, an antiquities dealer named Arthur Sampson
was found dead at his Saint Charles Avenue shop. He
had been shot once in the stomach with a thirty
(00:23):
two caliber bullet, had stabbed over one hundred times. The
store was ransacked and safe was missing about two thousand dollars.
A month after the murder, Bobby Jean was writing and
what she did not know at the time was a
stolen car with two men. When they were pulled over
by the police for a traffic violation. One of the
men stashed a knife, a thirty two caliber revolver, and
Bobby Jean's purse. At eighteen years old, Bobby Jeane Johnson
(00:47):
was brought in for a violent interrogation that would change
the course of her already tragic and vulnerable life. This
is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction today. I
(01:08):
have a guest who is um one of the most
extraordinary people with one of the most insane stories that
I've ever heard. And she's also just a beautiful, beautiful person. Um. So,
Bobby Jean Johnson, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. As I always say,
I'm sorry you're here, but I'm glad you're here and
(01:31):
everyone will find out why. Um And with her is
Kat Forrester, who is the communications director for the Instance
Project of New Orleans, also known as Hypno and Cat.
Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. Thanks so much, happy to be here. So,
Bobby Jean was freed from prison two thousand eighteen after
serving forty one years in prison for a crime she
(01:52):
didn't commit. And this case has so many of the
hallmarks of the causes of wrongful victions that you know,
it's almost a clean sweep, so to speak. I mean,
there was misconduct, there was a false confession that you
were tortured into making. Incompetent defense. It's not even that's
not even strong enough of a word. And we're going
(02:13):
to get into that all of that. But we're talking
about the murder of Arthur Sampson, right, And this is
an extremely violent crime. This was a white man who
was an antiquities dealer in New Orleans who was shot
and stabbed a hundred times. I mean, that's a vicious,
vicious crime. And just to paint a picture for people
who are listening, how tall are you? You're five feet tall,
(02:35):
and you're not a big one. Wasn't that big at
the time. I was like ninety eight pounds, like and
I wall size zero paints. I could go with my
clothes out the children's section. So the whole thing makes
no sense just on a purely physical level. And Mr Sampson,
I mean, nobody deserves to die like he did. But
he was a sort of a dicey character anyway. Right.
(02:56):
He was known for bringing sex workers to his home,
which is one of the reasons why the logical suspect
would have been this woman who was a sex worker
who was the last person to see him alive. Yeah,
she was the last person he was seen with by anyone. Right,
So usually you know, we all watched those crime shows
on TV, you know, you go down that path at
(03:17):
least take a look, you know, but that's not what happened. Um,
what year was this by you were an eighteen year
old girl, yeah at the time, so what was going on?
You were living in New Orleans at the time. Yeah,
and I was like on drugs and stuff, right. So
one night we was riding in a call. It was
me and two other dudes were running call and the cops,
(03:39):
the police stopts for traffic of valation. Were you driving? No?
I wasn't driving all right. And at the time when
the police stopped us, that wanted the dudes that was
in the call with me, do the knife in a
gun in my person? So wouldn't because I know I
didn't have no knife and gun in my purse. So
when the police pulled all my stuff about my person,
(04:00):
he said, oh, we got a knife and the gun.
I said that it's not for me. But on they
took us to homotide On Division and they put us
in different rooms and kept question and I was in
questions and I kept tell him I don't know nothing
about I don't even know what his place is at.
And I heard this man and so I wanted the
dudes to do they put the gun in and I
didn't make a statement and said, app when y'all stopped this,
(04:22):
I put that knife in the gun. And Bob jeans,
that's not hos I did it. And he made a statement,
they just ignored a statement. I mean, cat, do you
think they knew at the time that they had the
wrong person, but they just wanted to clean up the
case and that was what was really going on. Yeah,
I think so. I mean, I think they had a
pretty viable suspect and they didn't follow any of the
leads and that other suspects case. UM. And I think
(04:43):
that so often, particularly you know, back in the seventies, eighties,
nineties in New Orleans. UM, particularly with black folks. I
think that they, you know, the cops got tunnel vision
and you know, when they found somebody and it seemed
easy enough to pin it on that person, you know,
even if all the evidence in the world pointed to
someone else. So often they just got tunnel vision and
(05:07):
um focused on one person and you know, force their
theory of the case to fit to that person. So
they knew, they knew that this guy had come forward
who admitted that he had a classy guy. By the way,
it's a cops coming. He's putting his his knife and
he's going to be your purse. I mean, that's a
hell of a thing. And when you were arrested and
if you're okay, even talking about it. I mean what
(05:29):
I've read about the interrogation that you went through, this
is like something out of you know, a bad movie,
or out of the torture that you read about in
in a foreign country or Abu grab, you know, something
like that. But I mean you went to the police
station and what happened, and then they put it in
separate rooms, and uh they kept throwing pictures in front
me and they say, uses him him. I said, well,
(05:52):
I've never seen that man before, the dead guy. You
had a dead man all the samson and then uh
one he had me in my face. He said, no,
listake or to the other room. So when they took
me to the other room, they still was asking me.
So when I kept saying I don't know. I can't
tell you nothing. I don't know, he said, oh, you're
gonna know, and he called me a black bee and
(06:12):
he put my hand, got me to the back behind
his like wooden chair and put a plastic bag over
my head. The chair fell back and they started kicking
me in my ribs and all over and hit me.
And he kept saying, black bee, Yeah, you're gonna tell
us because we know, you know, we know you know
he's said, because let me tell you, he said, ain't
number of police officers in this in the station right here,
(06:34):
and we could kill you and your family would never
know nothing about you. So I'm scared to that. And
so he said, come on, we're going bagging there by
the time, he said, you're gonna put on and if
you don't, you get some more. And I was scared
of that. I was crying and everything. I had five
police officers standing up behind me and one sitting down
who had the table carter and um, he said, now
you're ready, I said, I haint, I don't know that
(06:55):
he said. He turned the tape off and he said,
you're gonna repeat what I said, yeah, until minute. So
I was so scared. I did everything that was telling
me to put on put on, but it was a lie.
I did it because I was scared. Well, yeah, you
had a very good reason to be scared. I mean
that was certain everywhere and even after the j F
(07:19):
fail back with they was kicking me in my rooms
and everything. It was horrible and Jason, I just wanted
to say that, like the world had not been kind
to Bobby Jean before this all happened. You know, she
had had a really tough up upbringing, and it makes
so much sense that she would do anything to kind
of survive, right this, this brutal police interrogation and beating.
(07:43):
Thank you, Bobby. Um. Yeah, I just feel like the
world had not been kind to her, had not offered
her a lot of hope. Um. And I you know,
I think because I was I was given away with
my mama had me and I had to go on
(08:04):
like that. It was like I was scared, Oh world,
am I shoulder? So I just got out there and
I just wanted about it. Loved me and I just
wanted to be accepting and stuff. So whenever it took
for me to do that, I did it. And she
was she was a young a young girl, as you
keep kind of pointing out, you know, who was doing
(08:25):
the best she could with what she had. Um. And
then and then this thing happened to her, right yeah,
then this thing happened. This is you know, there's been
too many of these cases where we've learned that the
(08:46):
officers have threatened to kill the person unless they confess.
Johnny and CAPI A is one thing of a year,
I guess in Texas. There's too many of these. And
you know, Johnny says to me, he was on the
podcast and he said, um, he ask me, why would
I confess? And he was eighteen like you were, And uh,
he says, why wouldn't I confess? He goes, I wanted
(09:06):
to live? You know what I want? I just want
I wanted to live. I was a young girl eighteen.
You're really more of a child than a woman. I
mean at that point, you know, I mean, we know
that the adolescent brain doesn't fully develop until you and
here you are not just a younger but a little girl,
right um pounds like you said, in a room full
of big, tough guys who you would want to think
(09:28):
are gonna protect you, right, um. And in fact, they're
threatening in a very real way. Right. It's not like
it doesn't sound like an empty threat when they're putting
a plastic bag over and beating you and kicking you.
I mean, so, I don't think there's any question. And
I think it's so important that you're here, and I
really appreciate you. I know it's difficult for you. I
can see how difficult it is, but it's so important
(09:49):
for the public to understand that these false confessions happen
for a variety of reasons. Not everybody's tortured, but a
lot of people are psychologically coerced or their trad or
they're you know, confused. So yeah, in your situation, I
don't think anyone would probably behave any differently than you did.
But then what a difficult thing to live with. Two
Because knowing as you're going to prison for the rest
(10:11):
of your life that you are in a certain way
responsible because you you know, you admitted something that you
didn't do. But but her confession didn't match the facts
of the case anyway. No, she I mean she got
a lot of of it wrong. Um, I mean she
didn't get much of it right actually, And that's also
(10:33):
a typical thing in these false confession cases. After torturing
her for hours, the police were able to extract the
taped confession that was riddled with inconsistencies. According to that
false confession, Bobby Jeane and a woman named Kimberly Legan
had met Sampson in the French Quarter. Legan solicited him
for sex, then when he brought them back to his store,
(10:53):
and again back to the false narrative that she created
just to make the torture stop. She said, Bobby herself
at him once in the chest and once in the head,
and then her friend Legan stabbed him over one hundred times.
Then they robbed his store and sped off in a
stolen Pontiac grhand Prix. Now for the actual facts, Arthur
Sampson was shot only once in the stomach. Bobby Jean
(11:14):
described Sampson as being twenty years younger and a half
foot taller than he was. And lastly, the Pontiac grhand
Prix would not have made a good getaway car, as
it was not stolen until hours after the murder. The
man who had stashed the thirty two caliber revolver and
knife her person made a statement admitting to just that,
but that fact was inconvenient to the prosecution's narrative and
was therefore hidden from the defense. All of this could
(11:36):
have been brought up during trial if Bobby Jean had
adequate counsel. However, with no family and no backup whatsoever,
Bobby Jean didn't have a chance in help. Now you're
taking to jail. How long did you have to wait
for your trial? Eighteen months? Eighteen months in jail? And
I know how bad that must have been, because jails,
(11:57):
I mean, anywhere terrible, but in New Orleans. Um, it's infamous,
it is. Yeah, your trial was. Um, it was like
the combination of a bad dream and a bad joke
because the people who were supposed to be defending you
did nothing of the sort. And can you talk about that?
Yeah again, Um doing my trial, Um, my lawyer wouldn't
(12:21):
let me get understanding and talking my own defense. He
fell asleep through the trial. The lawyer was asleep. Yeah,
he fell asleep on the trial. I had to wake
him up. And he didn't do no opening um statements,
no opening statements, and no clue was in statements. And um.
One of the jewels stood up and state told the Joys,
(12:43):
I cannot give miss Johnson a fair trial because I
had a relationship with this man. The judic said, be
seated with the victim. Yeah, and he Um, Now I
know because when I was in prison, I took fairly
and I graduated from it. But my lawyers should have
called a mistrial. When that Jews stood up and he
didn't say not a wound, and the judge said, just
let's let's please proceed. I mean I've been doing this
(13:07):
work for over twenty five years, and I've heard a
lot of stories. I've never heard that before. I mean,
I've heard stories of yours that had but I never
heard a juror actually stand up and admit to you.
She raised her hand and she said, yeah, can I
get this lady a bit trial? Because I had a
relationship with Mr Samson, and so your lawyer was asleep,
you're waking him up. He made no opening statement, he
(13:29):
made no closing statement, and he didn't object didn't call
him miss trial. He made one objection throughout the trial,
to the admission of a photograph um. He has a
total of eight cross examination questions, the majority of which
dealt with the ballistics of the gun. No opening and
no closing, and he presented no case theory. He essentially
(13:50):
did nothing except Jake and ned. Yeah. I mean, he
didn't defend you so much as process you. Right when
I was in jail, when they appeared him to me,
he never came seeing me. Only time I seen him
was at court and sometimes when they would have court
days for me, but he wouldn't be there, so they
would postpone it so another day. Oh so that's why
(14:13):
I took eighteen months again to trial because he wouldn't
show up. He wouldn't show up. Did at any point
did you request a different lawyer? Did you even know
that you? I didn't know. I was young and I
didn't know, and you probably. I mean, I would think
in that situation, you know nothing about alone, right And
I would think again in that situation that you would
be worried if you did request when then you can
upset the only guy who's on your side right now?
(14:34):
Did you have any family in the courtroom with you
or anything like that? Nobody? Did you? All alone? Jesus
Christ took them less than an hour to come back
with a guilty verdict. Yeah. So when I got there,
(15:00):
at first, I wasn't because I was angry. I was
angry and I was hurt because when I was I
started fighting all this it didn't matter no more because
I had it was like, well, Baptine, you got a
life sentence, now, it's nothing you could do. You to
go on to die in this prison. But then I
started praying and praying and praying and won't. The last
(15:21):
fight I had, I remember, I was in the cell.
I just felt to my knees and I said, God,
just take my life. I'm I'm tired of living like this.
Take my life and do what you want to do
with it. And from that data this was I ain't
been the same. I grew up, I got more mature,
and I did everything I could do. They was they
was offering on the g D. So I know I
(15:44):
had been on the school a few months and stuff,
and I got in this trouble because I know I
was a small girl. I had just I hadn't graduated.
I dropped out at the eleventh grade. And um, so
I took the g D and I passed the g D.
It was giving grand self for introduction in the business
payroll accountant and pay league. First I took the pair
or legal one and I passed with a four partower. Yeah,
(16:08):
and I studied hard or I started hard because I
wanted it and I wanted I did everything I could
to rehabilitate myself in every kind of way. It was
nothing I didn't do positive in jail. I had fights
in jail because I was small, and they thought I
was scared of it, but I wasn't. And I had
fights with quite a few people. But I grew and amateure.
(16:33):
I did everything I know to do right. I was
a law curtin and all this in the prison. When
I got into the oh, the lord librry, I started
writing to everybody to try to help me. One day
my sister said, just sent me all your pavoits and
my British Innocent Project. And when I sent them all
to it, they got him and they started working on
(16:56):
my case immediately. Every two weeks they would be update
to see me and it tell me how the case
was going on. And then the day oh, I went
to quote on the sailing. I didn't even know I
had a quote on the day. Oh, it's it's if
having to get ready. You got a culture, I said,
a court rebound. You all. I have never taken me
back to court, so I didn't know what was going on.
(17:18):
So I said, okay. When I got drissed, it brought
me to call house and all my all Liam was
in the court room for me. A lawyers, yes, but
all my lawyers walked up with me to the podium
when I had to do the bleed in everything for
many long years, both the Promise of Justice Initiative and
the Innocence Project of New Orleans worked tirelessly on Bobby
(17:39):
Jeane's case, investigating leads, studying the evidence, and identifying the
inconsistencies in her violently courced false confession to eventually force
the District Attorney's office to offer a plea deal. The
deal was this her first degree murder conviction and life
sentence would be vacated, but Bobby Jean had to plead
guilty to manslaughter and armed robbery in order to be
(17:59):
re sentence to time served. Her attorneys also had to
drop any claims that the d a's office did not
turn over exculpatory evidence. This was not the outcome that
day or anyone who cared about Bobby Jean had hoped for,
but it was the only one that would set her free.
It's really sort of the last miserable aspect of this
(18:21):
case is the fact that even after all these years,
and even after it's been proven that you had nothing
to do with this, they still wouldn't admit their mistake,
right because they wanted to maintain the conviction. They want
to make sure you didn't get anything for it. So
the d A's office in New Orleans forced you to
take a plea just to sort of could be free,
(18:45):
as that was the only way that you take this
flee or you stay in for its right. I think
anybody would do what you did. And and Cat, I
want you to jump in here anytime, because I know
you're intimately familiar with this case, and I know how
proud you are of the work that as I am
as a supporter of Innocence Project New Orleans, I'm so
proud of the work that they did. And I'm so happy.
(19:06):
I mean, I saw those pictures when and I posted
on my Instagram, UM, which is at it's Jason Flam
as people know, but I posted the pictures of Bobby
Jean walking out of prison that day, and just my
heart was breaking or or or floated. I was breaking,
My heart was breaking, and I was floating in the air,
and it was a whole crazy thing. Can you shine
some light on this, Cat, because this this case is
(19:27):
bizarre even by our standards. Yeah. Absolutely so. It was
a case that we worked on for for several years. UM.
One of the attorneys in our office, Shrell Arnold, worked
on it for a long time and it ended up
being UM the Promise of Justice Initiative, incredible organization in
New Orleans who ended up freeing Bobby Jean and walking
her out of prison. But we were there because she was,
(19:49):
you know, the first female client who we had really
worked on her case for for for a long time
and had a really good lead and and and part
of that is because, as you know, Jason, I'm or
you know, women aren't often sentenced to life in prison
or long prison sentences, which is what HYPNO does is
free innocent life sentence prisoners. UM. And and women so
(20:12):
often are caught up in things that men do right there,
or they harm or kill their domestic abusers. UM. And
so this was you know, really exciting for us, I
think because it was the first time that we'd worked
with a woman, UM for a number of years. UM.
And of course Bobby Cheen is just incredible, and you know,
I think having her come home, UM, I actually came
(20:34):
and hung out with her in Atlanta when she got home,
and we went to the aquarium and UM started learning
how to use a cell phone and as as I think,
we showed you some pictures and UM, it was a
really incredible moment. I you know, can't imagine being incarcerated
for forty one years, no I mean, when you put
that in context, that's I mean, you were only eighteen
(20:55):
at the time, so that's twice as long as you
had been alive, plus another five years. I mean, it's
it's impossible, I think for anybody to comprehend who hasn't
been through it. Jesus, who was president when you went
to prison? I don't remember. I don't know Jimmy Carter
was president. That's god. Yeah, I mean it's a low time.
(21:21):
Most of the people who are listening to the show
weren't born yet. Um, and everything was different. Um. And
then you come out into a world where everybody's walking
around typing on their phones, cross's going everywhere, like there's
just everything is different. When I at my first phone
in my hand, was like, oh my god. Kay. She
(21:42):
had to show me everything, had to turn it on
and everything. First thing she wanted was an Instagram account. Yeah,
what is it? What is your Instagram account? I don't know.
She doesn't know, Bobby. So you walk out, I mean,
what what the difference? You? You go win as it's scared, brutalized,
(22:03):
young nineteen twenty year old woman, but eighteen when you
went to jail, um, and you come out as a
an accomplished, mature, fifty nine year old woman. You walk
out into a world that looks almost nothing like it
did when you went in. Its New Orleans don't look
(22:24):
nothing like it did when I went in. I mean
I almost forgot the names of the streets. That's how
definitely looked at me. Yeah. I had five five my
lowers with me, and it was just, I don't know,
it was a feeling I never had before. I used
to pray every night, God, you might only witness and
(22:46):
you know I didn't kill nobody, just open these doors
and help me. Every night I prayed that in my room.
It was so aw for me. Here we are at
the Innocence Network conference. By the way, how about this conference, Bobby,
(23:09):
It's amazing. Yeah. So we're here at the Innsence Never
Conference with about two hundred exonrees and six hundred UM
people activists, social workers, UM, civilians who want to get involved.
Two of them are in the room with us right now. UM.
(23:30):
We have lawyers here, we have experts on everything from
you know, false confessions to uh, you name it, and
uh it's an awesome, awesome thing. I mean, people are
connecting and strategizing and coming up with best practices and
helping each other. And yeah, I mean we have we
have thirty five new Exonorees here that we're on stage
(23:52):
last night saying and dancing and it was some crazy
scene and it's amazing, including you. Yeah, yeah, I are
you up there? How to feel to be up there?
Bobby Jane? It was it feel good? It felt good
for you to connect with the other axonorees. What is
that experience like? It's just like because I just don't
(24:12):
I said, I knowing it that many people there is
both convincious and it made me feel good to know
that I was. I was. I wasn't the only one.
Oh no, hell no, but I didn't know it at
the time. But it really feel good. And to know
how much love this we show to each other. Mm hmm. Yeah,
we ain't done yet. We're gonna be loving on you
(24:36):
for the well for the rest of the time, but
especially the less next twenty four hours, and we're all
gonna be here together. It's gonna be amazing. Um. And
I know that people are are so glad that you're here.
It's amazing, right, Yes, yeah, I mean, I'm so honored
to be here and be a part of this movement. Um.
I will tell anybody who's listening that, Um, you know,
(24:57):
I call it selfish altruism because I could cosider it
a privilege and an honor to get to be around
people like yourself and to be able to make some
small difference is uh, you know, it's the most rewarding
thing in my life. I mean, you know, obviously you know,
I'm a father and that's a tremendously important thing to me.
But beyond that, it's the most important work that I
(25:18):
can imagine being involved with. And you're a living proof
of it. And here we are celebrating you and celebrating
freedom and working on getting the next people out. And
and so now you're living in Georgia, in Georgia the
cat and what gives you join? Now? Do you have
any joy in your life now? I have to enjoy
in my life now because it's like living where I live.
(25:41):
I can come and go with exact please. Anybody could
come get me and like take me wherever they want,
seem like, if they want to take me out did
or whatever, I could do it. And they have a
lot of activities because I'm because I'm because of my age.
They have a lot of activities for all and I
always attended. They have the church service. I always attended
and they treat me good. And what is it thing
(26:02):
you do once a month, Bobby Jean, Oh, I'll go
to George's Innocent Project. I'm a man of the George's
Innocent Project and I never missed a meeting. I'm always there. Yeah.
They've really lovingly taken her into the agonary meetings that
happened once a month there so she gets to hang
out with other wrongfully incrstor to people who live in Georgia.
I see you got the shirt on Georgia. You go,
(26:25):
what did Geogia Innocent Project shirt? I say, yeah, I
don't have one for all if no where, I need
to get you a justice shirt. I know I have
a justice I think we can arrange that you got
that one. I got it, Okay. Perfect teamwork makes the
dream work. Um. So this is the part of the
show that is my favorite part because this is the
(26:48):
part of the show where I get to First of all,
I thank you well, thank you for having me, Bobby,
Geene Johnson and cat Forrester, thank you for coming and
sh especially Bobby obviously Bobby Team, for I know how
difficult it is to talk about these things, and it's
so important that you're here. UM, So you know, thank
(27:10):
you on behalf of me and all my listeners and
everybody in the Innocence Network. And then this is the
part where I get to stop talking, and UM, I
turned it over to you two fabulous ladies for final
closing thoughts. UM, and I think we should we should
(27:31):
finish with you Bobby, because UM, I want to hear
anything you have to say, any anything at all about
any subject. But first, Cat, what what are your closing thoughts.
I'm just so glad that we helped get her home.
And I was thinking about it because we're at the
aquarium last night for the Innocence Network dinner, and we
went to the aquarium right after she got out, and
(27:54):
to see the joy on her face, you know, at
like you know, seeing very cool fit um was just unparalleled. UM.
And I'm just so glad to have been able to
experience that with her and just see, you know, how
many new things she gets to explore in this life
(28:14):
now that she's a free, a free woman. Yeah, it
was amazing to me because the Querum. I would always
say that the short on't teel how I used to say,
I want to go there. I want to go there.
So when Cat him and she said, you want to
go to the Quirre. And when she did, it was
like a joy. A lot of George just jumped on
my face. I said, yeah, I want to go. I
wanna go Cat, I want to go see him. And
(28:35):
when I came seeing it was so beautiful. I just
it was so amazing out here. But Cat led me
all the way through and she was there, you have
nowhere has been there for me. I could call him
in any given time or whenever, and if it's a
problem I have, they would do their best to fix
or if I like sometimes I used to get depressed
(28:56):
and stuff and I used to call him me. It's tall.
And Angelique has been marvelous. Oh my gosh, she has
been great. She client services specialist. Yes, she has been great.
No matter what. If she can't call me back at
the time, she takes me back and say I'll call
you in a few minutes. Just hold long and um.
But it has been great and it's and I'm happy
(29:19):
to be home. I'm happy. I'm happy more happy now
than I've ever been in my life. I didn't I
never knew so much love and stuff, but now I do,
and it's it's great. It's just that they took a
(29:40):
lot of away from me. They took everything away from
me for nothing but something I didn't even do. I
lost everything. Oh, my youth was gone. And I just
want to thank you Jason for having me. Wow, We're
(30:02):
gonna be here for you too. Um, you have a
whole new family now. You got family members here now,
and you've got a lot more that are listening to
the show. And so um you're You're a brave and
strong and amazing woman and we're gonna support you in
every way we can. So um, so again, thank you
for being here, Thanks again for listening. Um, I'm gonna
(30:25):
go try to recover. That's what I'm gonna do. And
uh and and we'll see you next week. I'm wrong
for conviction. I have some devastating news to share. Um.
Bobby Jane Johnson, who I recorded this amazing, haunting episode with,
passed away. Um. It was unexpected. I'm no doctor, but
(30:49):
I can say that she died of the abuse and
neglect that she suffered at the hands of the State
of Louisiana during her forty one years of wrongful incarceration.
Bobby was an angel on earth. She was just a beautiful,
damaged soul who wanted nothing but to be loved and
to help others. And she was out less than eighteen
(31:12):
months when she died. And I bring that up because
it's a sort of a hidden and horrible truth. I
don't know the statistics nationally, but in the state of Louisiana,
approximately of axonorees die within eighteen months of their release
from prison. It's really hard for me to process this one.
We were planning Bobby's birthday party when we got the news.
(31:34):
She had called me and said that she called me,
Mr j She called me. She called me, she says,
mr Ja. She goes, you know, my birthday is coming up.
And she said in her little voice, because you know,
she's only about nineties something pounds, and she said, you know,
I've never had a happy birthday. And you know, that
(31:55):
really just messed my head up, as you can imagine.
So we began planning myself. Stacy Ryan, who mentored her
hero the band Um wonderful rock and roll band that
I work with from Atlanta. We all were putting our
resources together and planning a big, beautiful birthday celebration for
(32:16):
her in Atlanta, and you know, just a week before
it was supposed to happen, we got the news that
she was gone. So um, Bobby Jean, You're gone, but
never forgotten. Rest in power. Don't forget to give us
(32:37):
a fantastic review wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps.
And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and
I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very
important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go
to Innocence Project dot org to learn how to donate
and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team,
Connor Hall and Kevin Awards. The music in the show
(33:00):
is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be
sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and
on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason
Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and
association with Signal Company Number one
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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