May 12, 2021 • 39 mins
A notorious informant father and son duo traded false information for $2k, wrongfully ensnaring 4 young men in the criminal legal system - one of whom was budding hip hop star, artist, and author, Al Cleveland.
Learn more and get involved at:
Deacon Cleveland Music
Al Cleveland's Artwork
3 Strands, 1 Cord: A Couple's Guide to Understanding Incarceration
Baby Shark: The Childhood Genius of Daymond John
https://www.ohioinnocenceproject.org
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
In the late eighties and early nineties, the crack epidemic
was in full swing in many parts of the country,
including Lorraine, Ohio, where Sunset Boulevard was known as the
place to buy and smoke crack without being hassled by
the authorities. The infamously corrupt Lorraine police department had a
relationship with a drug dealer addict and a notorious informant
named William Avery Senior, who ran the scene on Sunset
(00:25):
Boulevard and he didn't appreciate New Yorkers encroaching on his turf.
On August, the bodies of Marcia Blakeley and Floyd Epps
were discovered separately. The tire marks on their heads were
at least in part to blame for their deaths. After
the cases went cold, two thousand dollar reward drew the
attention of William Avery Senior, who brought in his teenage
(00:48):
son to falsely accuse four men from New York, including
Al Cleveland. The fact that al Cleveland was in New
York at the time of the murder and that Avery
Junior recanted his statement at the first of the four
trials did not stop Prosecutor Jonathan Rosenbaum from going ahead
with all four of these sham trials. The Ohio criminal
(01:09):
legal system continuously ignored William Averred Jr's recantations for twenty
five long years, leaving parole as Al Cleveland's only avenue
for relief. This is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam. Welcome
(01:36):
back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom. That's me, and
today you're gonna hear a story that defies description. I'm
going to first of all, introduce first. Jennifer Passion Persund
has been on the show before, is the deputy director
of the Ohio Innocence Project. Jennifer, Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction.
Thank you, it's good to be back. And Al Cleveland,
(01:58):
Um No, I'm just gonna say this. Al has lived
about seven or eight lifetimes so far. Um, and he
survived twenty five years in prison for a gruesome double
murder that happened in Ohio while he was in Queens,
New York. That's just the beginning. So without further ado,
Al Cleveland, I'm so happy you're here. I'm sorry you
(02:20):
have to be here, but I'm happy you're here. Hey,
I'm here. I'm with Jason Blot you gotta realized, Jason,
Like I'm fresh home, like I've just been home maybe
five months, and I sat on the wreck visualizing this.
So here we are, and I'm excited. I'm pumped up,
and thank you for doing this. Thank you for doing this.
I don't even know what to say. That means. That
means more to me than you couldn't even know. And
(02:41):
so al going back to the beginning, you grew up
such a fascinating story. You were a hip hop artist,
and not only that, but you were very close friends
with L. L Cool J back in Hollis Queen's about that. Yeah,
so um, he grew up right around the corner from me.
So we were always in the basement, you know, making
(03:02):
mix tapes and making songs, and like I've seen his
ascent from the basement to you know, a national stage.
You know, used to go with him on tour, like
if he was in any of the surrounding states, we
would get in the van and go wherever he was
and get backstage passes and you know, just have tons
(03:23):
of fun. It was just tons of fun seeing that rise. Yeah,
you witnessed literally the birth of a legend. And here's
your dear friend I mean that rumor has it that
you actually painted his room. I mean, it's so crazy.
I did, I did, I did, and he owes me
thirty bucks still for it. Oh my god, with interest.
That's incredible. Um. In his book I Make My Own
(03:44):
Rules l L actually shouts you out and credit to
your artwork actually as an early inspiration of his. So
that's one. Okay, that's just one. You ain't heard nothing yet.
Stick with us, Okay. So another childhood friend of yours
is Damon John, and this I think highlights how crazy
and random all this ship is because I think it's
(04:05):
fair to say you all had the same potential, but
the system grabbed you and those guys went on to
become success stories while you were being held captive by
the state for a crime you didn't commit. And for
those of you who don't know, Damon John is the
founder and CEO of Fubu. So tell us about Damon
just quickly and how you come to know him in
the beginning. Oh, man, me and Damon we went to
(04:27):
the same Catholic school together in our neighborhood from maybe
second or third grade. All the way, uh, we're going adventures,
bike rides, camping with my dad. That was my guy.
I wrote a book about it, actually, a little children's book,
What don't you Do? I feel like you? Okay, but
we're gonna get into that later. So to set the stage,
we're back in the eighties and early nineties. The crack
(04:48):
epidemic was in full swing, and you were now going
back and forth to Northeast Ohio. Right, it seems so random.
Why would a kid from Queen's end up in Loren, Ohio. Alright, So,
since I'm talking to youth from and you've got experience
in the music business, I want to just go back
a little bit to help you and help everybody understand.
(05:09):
So late eighties, my sister gets killed by some skinheads
in Detroit, and it was a big thing. My mom
was protesting and but me, I internalized this thing and
just kind of like went into my art. And at
the time, I was doing graffiti and you know art
on that level, trying to get into galleries and trying
to make my way, but it wasn't happening. So I
(05:32):
started promoting parties, doing shows, ran into a guy who
had a studio. We started going to the studio. I
found out, Hey, I got some talent. I can rap,
I can do this. I see l L do it.
Let me take this route. So we started going to
the studio and making songs, and we started forming a
vision of what we wanted to do. But the problem
was Jason. Back then, you know, you had to get
(05:53):
records pressed up, you had to get a song mastered,
you had to go through all these steps, and I
didn't have the money for that. At every stage, we
kept finding ourselves os broke. So ninety one, a friend
of mine gets in touch with me. He had left
New York to go to Ohio with a few other
dudes and they were into the drug scene, low level,
(06:13):
but he was incarcerated and he asked me to help
him with the bond money. At the time, I didn't
have it. I only had my rep money. So he
enticed me a little more and told me he would
double my money. Just come on out, give him a
few days and he would have the money back for me.
And at the time I wanted to explore the music
scene out here. I said, you know what the heck man,
and I did it and I sent him the money
came out here. That's how I wound up out here.
(06:37):
He took me to a project. You know, he's showing
me how he does his thing. You know, gave me
the little package to hold. Police comes, they chase him,
arrest him. I have the little thing. I ditched, a
little thing. I wind up meeting some guys. Went to
a guy's house who wind up being the guy who
wanted setting us up. But I went to his house.
(06:57):
He asked me if I had anything, and I'm like,
I kind of do. He asked me about from New York.
Do I knows my code defendant? Like yeah, I know him. Yeah.
He's like, if you got something, I can sell it.
So I went and retrieved this stuff. You start breaking
it down when him I didn't even know. The prices
were haggling, and he takes what he buys from me,
goes right out into the street and he's stopping cars
(07:17):
like he's a traffic controller, is selling his thing. And
maybe hour and a half later, the whole little bag
of stuff I had was it was gone. I had
about in my pocket for the next thirty to forty days.
I just went on a mission to get my startup capital. So,
I mean, I know it was wrong, but that was
I had a vision. I had a vision, Jason, and
I can't leave out the fact that when you look
(07:39):
at the history of hip hop music, there's so many artists,
legendary artists who grew up the same way you did,
some of them from the same area you came from,
and you ended up in the crack game because that
was the option that was available at the time, like
you said, to get startup capital or whatever it may be.
And just by fate, they didn't get arrested. Um and
(08:00):
many people know the names I mean, because these people
are not they're not secretive about it. When I had
Mike Bail on the podcast and I asked him this
question how many people he met in prison that were
as talented as he is, and he said he couldn't
even count. How many. You know, I've met so many
guys in there, Jason, who the visionaries? You know, they're
the breadwinners and their families. And I just want to
make it clear. I just want to make sure I
(08:21):
share this message that if you do have a dream,
if you do have a vision, try to find out
how to do a business plan. Try to find out
how to go to a bank or ask people family
members to invest in your dream. Instead of taking that
route and putting yourself at risk to come to the
penitentiary because it's full of guys with dreams that fall through.
(08:44):
So I just wanted to share that. No, I'm glad
you did. And Jennifer, I want to talk about the
Lorraine Police Department because of course Loren Ohio was where
I was spending his time in those days, and they
were known for sexual abuse and brutality, which is sadly
a problem that exists to this day and so many
different police departments around this country. Can you paint a
picture of what was going on back then and there
(09:06):
and what was the deal with their unsavory relationship with
this shady character, William Avery Senior. Yeah, there was a
huge crack problem. Similar to lots of other areas in
the country. The police had people like William Avery Senior, who,
at least according to Avery, could kind of do some
(09:27):
favors as a see I and then be left alone
and do whatever you wanted. So there seemed to be
sort of this unofficial arrangement between the cops and some
of the people there. So it seemed to me that
when folks from New York came in and started sort
of messing with that system. It did not go over
well with either the residents or the police. You had
just gotten involved in this business so to speak out.
(09:49):
Were you aware of what the Lorraine Police Department was
up to? No, I wasn't actually um I found out
years later to our investigation that Code have been in
was the one who invited me out here. He was
kind of like a target. We actually found a picture
with him with a bull's on in their police files
like here, I am just waltz right into Lorraine. I
(10:09):
had no idea. You're sitting duck, let's face it. And
as part of the story centers around a guy named
William Avery Sr. Who was a prolific paid informant at
the time, and he received special treatment as informants do
in exchange for his help. He lived on Sunset Boulevard
in Lorraine, Ohio with his son, William Avery Jr. Who
(10:30):
he had introduced to crack when the kid was just
fourteen years old, and this had become this sort of
neighborhood spot where people would come to smoke crack and
the police looked the other way, of course, because he
was helping them out while lying for them on cases.
As well as maybe providing accurate information once in a while.
I have no idea. And then there was Marcia Blakeley. Well,
Marcia Blakely was the murder victim. I'm she was a
(10:51):
young woman who was addicted to crack and other drugs
and was known on the streets for turning tricks selling
stolen goods to feed her addiction. She was just a
user who, for reasons that I still don't quite understand,
ended up brutally murdered in this whole situation. Yes, so
she and a guy named Floyd Epps turned up dead,
(11:13):
and this is, you know, one of the most brutal
crimes I've ever heard of. On August eighth, thanking anyone
at in the morning, Marsha Blakely's body was discovered in
an alley behind the Westgate Shopping Center in the rain.
She had twenty five stab wounds, fractured ribs, of broken neck,
a slit throat, and torture wounds on her neck and head.
(11:33):
And if that wasn't enough, her head had been run
over by a car twice now. Earlier that same day
at am, Floyd Epps's body was found nearby, and his
head had also been run over by a car. So
this is bizarre because police believe that the murders were related.
Anyone would of course, I mean, you don't hear stories
too often people being the heads run over by cars, thankfully,
(11:54):
but no arrests were made in the Epps killing, and
no arrested and made to this date, which is the
whole separate problem. But with nothing was happening with these cases,
the cops wire offered a two thousand dollar reward for information.
So now we go all the way to over a
month later, September ten, William Avery Senior said he had
information and they told him that the reward would only
(12:18):
be given to someone with firsthand knowledge. Yeah, so William
every Senior takes his son, William Avery Junior in the
next day to meet with the cops to say what
you know, he knew about the crime. But his story
as it was told that day does not match up
to what he eventually said in the trials. And in addition,
it was just a bizarre meeting where you know, the
(12:40):
cops are interviewing William Avery Jr. About supposedly witnessing this burder,
and yet his father sat in on the entire interview.
And said like, yeah, I'm here to remind him of
the things that he forgot, which just raised all kinds
of red flags. But yet that's that's what they went with.
So when Every Senior and Junior went to the police,
(13:01):
Junior implicated four individuals and the death of Marsha Blakeley.
That four men were Lenworth Edwards, Benson Davis, John Edwards,
and Alfred Cleveland, men that he claimed were drug dealers
from New York. Now. Avery Junior went on to say
that he owed you Al money and in order to
pay off the debt. Avery Junior claimed that Al took
him to Apps's apartment where Marcia Blakely was and that
(13:23):
Al told him to assault her. Avery Junior claimed to
refuse because he knew Marsha Blakely. So, according to this
crazy tale from Every Junior, the three other men assaulted
her for twenty minutes while he and Al watched. Avery
continued on that he went back to his apartment after
the assault, but said that Al came by after and
told him, quote, we took care of the junkie, We
(13:47):
knocked her off, and thanks just started rolling from there.
Although they never really found any other evidence at all,
implicating these guys, but he can't find stuff that doesn't
exist because they weren't exactly So you were aren't even
in Ohio? Right? What tell us where you were during
this week? And how we know that that's really true?
All right? So, yeah, I was on probation at the time.
(14:07):
I didn't realize when I was going to trial. I
wasn't sure because it was like four years later that
that was the day that I went to my probation officer,
but I knew. I went back to New York to
see my probation officer and I was in New York
with Damon John, who had a van business at the time.
I went to buy a TV and I needed him
to come bring the TV to my house. And this
(14:30):
is all, you know, the seventh, the eighth, when these
people were killed, and when I was going to trial,
I had to receive for this TV. You know, we
got those times. You know. He came to trial and
prosecuted trying to dog him out like he was some
young punk. You know, he tried to discredit him and
it was crazy. I mean, the stage acknowledged that he
had seen the probation officer in New York on August seven.
(14:50):
But they just said, well, he must have decided he
was gonna either drive or fly to Ohio to come
and commit this brutal murder against this woman. He didn't
even know. But it was just the word of one person,
that was it. So four people were victims of this
compromise to say the least paid informant and it was
a two award and then they paid him again. Yeah,
he got the two thousand dollar award for coming forward initially,
(15:13):
which was interesting because the award was listed for anyone
would get it, leading to an arrest. They arrest lyne
Worth Edwards, one of the co defendants. He gets the
two thousand dollars. They then schedule a deposition of William
Avery Jr. Claiming that his life is in danger or something,
and he gets paid again, and then he ends up
getting paid more. So at the end of the bowl saga,
(15:34):
he ended up getting paid around five thousand dollars for
his testimony. Right, we're talking five thousand more money than
it is today. Yeah, absolutely, to someone who was a
crack addict who you know, on the stand said he
never really had a job, so this was his income.
So Avery Junior changed and recanted his story multiple times
after the initial interrogation, but his claims anyway were enough
(15:56):
and the authorities were happy to use them to convict
four are men. Avery Junior was supposed to testify the
first trial because guys were tried separately. Right, Lyndworth Edwards
was the first trial. Yes, so at Lyndworth Edwards first trial,
this was the first of the four to be tried. Yeah,
William Avery Jr. Basically demanded ten thousand dollars to keep
(16:18):
giving his testimony, which you know, of course, the prosecutor said, well, no,
we're not paying you anything. So at this point, Avery Jr.
Then says, well, I'm not going to testify. Everything I
said before was a lie. So yeah, they end up
throwing him in jail and charging him with contempt. But
he later comes back and it's the second trial for
(16:38):
Linworth and says, well, the reason I flip flopped before
was because I was threatened in the jail if I
went forward with telling what I know about this crime.
And so that's how they got away with putting on
his testimony in Lyndberth's second trial and then in the
rest of the defendants trials. However, we found out later
(17:02):
years later, was that those threats never happened. We found
records showing that Avery Jr. He actually got in trouble
for making false reports about getting threatened. And so the
whole case was just built on a live basically a
lot of lies, um but um and out your trial.
(17:23):
You were the third one tried right, and your trial
lasted six days. When the jury came in, I turned
around to look at them and I saw it was hatred.
Bro So I hatred and uh my mom was there
(17:49):
a couple of supporters. And when the judge read the verdict,
he told me I'm sentenced to life. And I told
me I didn't do it. You know, damn the screech
when he said guilty, the screech king m mother's voice.
(18:17):
I knew it took a part, the yank, a serious
part from All I can do is trying to turn around,
comfort her like it's gonna be okay, It's gonna be
all right. This episode is underwritten by the A I
(18:43):
G pro Bono Program. A I G is a leading
global insurance company, and for over a decade, the A
I G pro Bono Program has provided thousands of hours
of free legal services and other support to nonprofit organizations
and individuals most in need. Or recently, the program added
criminal and social justice reform as a key pillar of
(19:05):
its mission. Yeah. So, um, I went to a high
security prison they call them close camps where they send
people that you know, done some of society's worst crimes there.
And those first six or seven years that kind of
(19:26):
blurried to me because I was so focus on fighting
and educate myself. I had to totally like re educate
myself because everything I had thought I believed turned out
to be alive about the system and everything. You know,
I had to learn about myself. You know. I learned
about my history, learned about the history of this country,
(19:49):
learned about you know, other people who suffered injustices, and
tried to understand how these things happened. You know, it
wasn't just me, and I started learning like, man, this
is a big problem. So I just got on a
mission to better myself and better educate myself so I
(20:09):
could learn how to write better, learn how to communicate better,
to get support. You know, I had to be able
to write people. It's like you're going on a campaign
and you just gotta learn how to articulate yourself at
the same time growing spiritually, working out, trying to be
an impact on the guys in there, because I started
seeing that, you know, a lot of guys who weren't
(20:30):
educated at all, like no g ds and a lot
of illiteracy. So I put myself in a block where
I can tutor guys and just help out in that way.
I knew it was other guys that were innocent, and
if they were illiterate, they didn't stand a chance. You know,
tons of guys in there for stuff they didn't do,
but they don't have any support. They don't know how
to explain their situations. They don't even really know what happened.
(20:53):
They don't really understand the language that was used on
in the courtroom, that just sitting there trying to fight
their way through the everyday life of prison. So I
just had to try to be an impact in there.
I wasn't going to allow what happened to me to
make me bitter, make me angry, because I saw that
it's directly affects your health. So I had to make
(21:14):
my mind up to you know, understand forgiveness and trying
to understand that maybe these people made the mistakes. Maybe
they really thought we did do this, you know, but
I found out later on. This is what gets me angry, man,
is that they knew it was other people and other suspects.
They will own these guys, trail man, and these are
people that we're finding out other people that committed the crime,
(21:35):
and they were on that track, but just wanted us
just focus on us, man, and went forward with a
full story at preschool. It could have poked holes in
this guy's story, but they moved forward with it. Yeah.
I mean, it's extraordinary to me that you and others
have found a way to not only find this spiritual
(21:56):
grace or whatever you want to call it, but also
to overcome the best word I can think of this
incredible hardship is not even I can't find the right where.
But it's worth noting that Al was convicted about five
years after the crime was committed all the way, and
that same year there was a motion for a new
(22:17):
trial based on an Affidavid from Jeremiah abdul at Charlton Al.
Who was he and why was his affi David significant?
So this was a few years after my conviction. I
run into this guy who says he had some information
that he's been trying to share and had in fact
shared with police, and he was the last person to
(22:40):
see Marsha Blakeley. At least he alleged he was, you know,
put her into the car with two guys to exchange
for drugs. I guess he was like pimping, so to speak,
and he put her in the car with these guys.
So the judge did give us a hearing based on
his affidavit. Anytime somebody files an affidavit, you have to
come to testify to the truthfulness of the affidavit. But
(23:04):
when we get to the hearing, my lawyer wasn't even prepared,
didn't call him, didn't subpoena, and lo and behold, I
found out this same prosecutor had indicted her for some
some stuff in her office, you know, stuff that they
were going through, and had her under indictment at the
time of that hearing. So she wasn't in the right mind.
And the judge denied the hearing based on her unpreparedness.
(23:27):
And she was a good attorney, I mean, she she fought,
she believed in me, but she couldn't go up against
these guys. Man, they were too influential. It seems to
me that there were any number of times when the
state had not just the opportunity, but the obligation to
right this wrong, but like it often does, instead it
(23:47):
sort of got under its shell like a turtle and
deflected any new information or evidence to protect this wrongful
conviction or these for wrong for convictions. Yeah, out did
his sort of regular direct appeals which didn't go anywhere.
And then later Avery Jr. You know, the only guy
that put him at the scene, he recanted and admitted
(24:07):
that he made the whole thing up. What's interesting about
that is it took a long time for Al's family
to track down Avery Junior. He kind of lived off
the grid and it was hard to find him. But
once they did and he admitted, you know that he
he had lied in this. What we later found out
was that that wasn't the first time he recanted. He
actually recanted a couple of years before that to an
(24:31):
FBI agent in Detroit, just completely out of the blue
and on his own. Nobody from the state ever got
ahold of Al or any of his attorneys to let
him know that. So at that point there was no
evidence left and the states admitted that in filings before
that without Avery Jr. There's no case against al. So
this was before Ohio Innocence Project and I got involved
(24:53):
in the case. But he went back to state court
with this sworn statement in affidavit from Avery Junior. And
in the state court they finally eventually held a hearing
where they called him in to testify. Well, they read
him his rights on the stand, trying to prosecute him
with perjury in the four different trials. If he proceeded
to recant on the stand and he said, well, I'm
(25:14):
not going to prison for thirty years, took the fifth
and walked out. Now, the only reasonable conclusion you could
draw from that was that he was going to testify
that he lied at the trial because he wasn't in
any danger if he was going to suddenly say he
was telling the truth at the trial, if that makes sense.
But in any case, he walks outside and there's an
interview with a reporter right afterwards where he says, dude's innocent,
(25:37):
but I'm not going to prison for it. Yeah. Yeah,
his silence spoke volumes absolutely, and if they were interested
in justice, they would have let him testify. So yeah,
then he lost there, and then we ended up in
federal court, and that's where I kind of came in.
We know how difficult the federal court is, unfortunately, due
to the chances of success in federal court are basically
(26:00):
the same as a snowballs chance in hell. But tell
us what you did, how you did it, and how
the hell you finally managed to bring him home is
a miracle. So we filed it in federal court, and
the district court had said that we couldn't go forward
with the habeas case because there's this statute of limitations
for of one year, and long story short, they said
(26:22):
we were too late. So we filed an appeal because
there's this exception if you can show that someone is
actually innocent, and that's what we did with the recantation
from avery. And then we had evidence from the alibi
witnesses and additional alibi witnesses as well. So the state,
you know, had poked holes in Al's alibi a trial
(26:45):
by saying, well, he could have driven or flown here
after the times we knew he was in New York. Well,
we had additional witnesses that we found that proved that
Al was in New York at the time the crime happened,
or so close in time to it that unless he
could time travel, he could not have possibly gone back
to Ohio. So based on those things, we convinced the
(27:08):
six Circuit that we had shown that he was actually innocent.
That didn't mean that he got to go home. That
just meant that we got the right to actually pursue
the habeas claims in the district court. So I mean
in federal court you have to make federal constitutional claims.
So we were making federal claims of Brady violations where
(27:28):
the state had hit evidence and also that they had
intentionally put on false evidence from Avery that they knew
was false, and also claimed like in effective assistance of
trial counsel for failing to find some of these additional
alibi witnesses. And then we also made a claim based
on actual innocence and said, you know, he has a
federal constitutional right to not be imprisoned if he's actually innocent,
(27:51):
although interestingly, the U. S. Supreme Court even to this
day has not expressly recognized that that's a federal constitutional
right to not be in prison and if you're innocent.
So we had this hearing and then we lost I mean,
I can't even describe how I felt when the notification
came in. It came over email and I saw it,
(28:12):
and I think I just about fell out of my chair.
You know, Losing the appeals in this case has been
I think the hardest thing I've had to deal with professionally.
It's still boggles my mind and infuriates me and saddens
me all at the same time. And then, because of
(28:33):
the weirdness of habeas law, we weren't allowed to appeal directly.
We had to ask for permission to appeal. And then
the Sixth Circuit, which was the same court that had
said we had put forward a case showing that al
was actually innocent, then denied us the right to appeal
and said we didn't even have the right to appeal,
which I still can't explain that. I don't know how
you say, well, it looks like he's actually innocent, then
(28:55):
get more evidence supporting that, and then just say, well,
never mind, we're not going to hear claim anymore. But
that's what happened. That's our system, ladies and gentlemen. The
Sixth Circuits said, yeah, you're innocent, but no, we're not
going to give you a new trial. Furthermore, the Supreme
Court has said that actual innocence doesn't necessarily provide a
(29:17):
basis for relief. I think it was Scalia who made
that awful statements. And you know, we should all be
reviled by this, like what are you talking about? Like
what the fuck are you talking about? That actual innocence
is not a basis for relief. Yes it is. Everybody
knows this, and yet that's not the way it works here.
(29:41):
It's like procedure is more important than justice. Is basically
what it comes down to, and it's madness. It's absolute madness.
And we're here, Alice, here in the flesh, as a
living example of just how wrong all of this is.
But before we get to the close into the show,
I want to talk about one other, absolutely extraordinary aspect
(30:06):
of your life, and that is your wife and family.
It's beautiful. In all this darkness and misery, this woman,
who I look forward to meeting some day, stood by you.
How is that even possible? Years We did an interview
yesterday and I asked her junior interview, what would make
(30:27):
a woman make such a huge sacrifice in her life,
and she just said, man, love, I mean, it was
very powerful and this woman loves me man like. That's
why I made that song Jennifer about you, guys, and
I'm telling you all through the song like love can
do all things. Yeah, I had Damon John as a
(30:48):
friend and he did Rise while I was in prison
and helped out with attorney fees where he could and
where I needed him to. But it wasn't money. It
was the love of people, was a love of my wife.
It was a love of family members who supported me.
It was a love of Jennifer and then Innocence Project
and it's just me saying things. So I want to
share that. You know, I'll go by the name of
(31:10):
Deacon Cleveland. It's called Welcome Back, and it's awesome. Thanks
for all of them prayers, Thanks for all of your
thoughts while I was up in there. Appreciate you to
water while I was doing. I'm so happy that your
talents will finally be put to use in the world.
(31:31):
So everyone, please make sure you scroll down. We'll have
all of this length in the bio. And don't forgive
my wife in that books. She's sitting right here with me.
Three Strands, one Core, A Couple's Guide to Understanding Incarceration
for couples and families going through in conseration, if they
need some help on how to navigate that terrain and
(31:52):
make it through and possibly even thrive in love, then
get the book. It's our way of serving that community.
So three strands, one chord, Couple's Gods to Understanding Incarceration,
ROBERTA and Alpha Cleveland, thank you for real man, those
that the Ohio Innocence Project, Jennifer rannelm and Morgan Jassy
(32:15):
in Virginia and uh Jason Flam and Lorie Pushing, praying,
my wife, my kids, never complaining once more? Was the
house this crazy crazy, It's summer of Jennifer. You presented
(32:43):
OL's case of innocence along with countless letters of support
and had that pro board hearing. They voted in favor
of Owl's release. So in Ohio, the way it works
as if you are recommended for prole and certain crimes,
the victims family or the prosecutor has the opportunity to object.
(33:03):
So that's what happened, and so then it goes to
the full parole boards. There was ten members and we
went in. Person Al was not there. It was me
and his wife. We came in and spoke, and then
Damon John spoke via the internet, and then you know,
the victims family members were allowed to speak to But
it was a really moving and overwhelming moment because one
(33:24):
of the victims family members actually spoke out in favor
of Pearle because she didn't think that they had done
the crime either, which just hearing that was overwhelming. So
the whole Pearl Board left and we just kind of
had to sit there and wait for them to make
a decision, which was one of the longest times of
waiting I think I've ever felt. But they came back
in and it was nine to one in favor of
(33:46):
parole for him and his conefident Lyndworth Edwards was also
up that day and so they both were granted it,
And I mean, it was just incredible knowing he was
finally going to come home, and it was frustrating knowing
he wasn't getting exhonerate did or no one was acknowledging
his innocence yet, but at least he'd be home. It's
(34:07):
it's anticlimactic in a sense because this is important for
the audience to hear al still hasn't been declared. Actually innocent,
which means he's not eligible for compensation. He still has
to be on parole, etcetera. I'm going to put it
out there right now. I mean, I think we have
to explore the possibility of getting an absolute pardon. You know,
I will help in any way that I'm asked too.
(34:29):
I don't want to get in the way. I think
the governor of Ohio is a reasonable and decent man. Well,
thank you. Well, I will say that we're not done yet.
We think we've identified who actually did the crime, and
so you know, we're now in the position the only
legal avenue he has forward at this point is if
we can solve the crime for the state and kind
of take it to them, which is what we're working on.
(34:50):
So stay tuned. Hopefully this isn't the end. Hopefully he
will eventually get the exoneration he deserves. Amen to that.
And at this point we turned to the part where
I first of all, thank each of you for being
here and sharing this unbelievable story. And now I'm going
(35:12):
to introduce the closing of the show, which is called
closing arguments are probably enough, And this is the part
where I turn off my microphone, kick back in my chair,
close my eyes, leave my headphones on, and I turn
it over to you first, Jennifer for closing arguments, whatever
you want to say, anything you think that's left unsaid,
and then we'll save the best for last, and would
(35:33):
go to you Al for your closing arguments, and that's
how we'll end the show. Well, I wanted to say
thank you for having me on today and listening to
the story about we barely scratch the surface of all
the crazy twists and turns of this case, but I
appreciate you bringing this to the audience, and Al, I
(35:54):
just wanted to say thank you for you know, believing
in me over this whole time, even when things haven't
gone as we hoped. But I'm just so delighted that
your home, and I'm so excited to see all the
good that you're doing in the world. And I'm happy
that other people now finally get to see what I've
been able to see for the last eleven years that
we've been working on this case together. And I'm excited
(36:17):
to see what comes in your future. But also just
a reminder that you can't do it all in a day,
because I know you're trying now, so Jennifer, I want
to first, I want to thank you. I want to
thank Cassie. I want to thank Moran, want to thank
Virginia or think Professor Gatzi for you know, back in
US putting you in position for taking the case, taking
(36:40):
a huge burden off of me and my family. You know.
Thank you. Second, Jason, you talked about going to the
governor for a pardon and helping in any way. You
can thank you for that. But I have two co
defendants who are still incarcerated, Ben's and Davis and John
and it, and if we went to the governor about anything,
(37:05):
I would want the focus to be them and their
release because they're sitting in there. Their poorer boar dates
didn't come up like Lenny's and ours did. They're still
in there and they don't deserve to be there, So
any efforts in that area I would love to be
focused on them. I'm gonna be all right, bro, I'm
(37:28):
gonna be okay, you know what I mean. But them,
and if anybody out there has any information, you know
what a long shot this is on the wrong forul
Previction podcast. Who knows somebody might listen to this and
have some information about who really committed the crimes. We
think we know the truth, we think we know who
(37:50):
did it, but we need confirmation, we need concrete evidence.
So please contact my lawyer at the Innocence Project, Jennifer.
Please tell them your number or who they can contact
if you have any information, contact them. Un let's get
this overwit so we can get these men out of prison. Jennifer,
(38:11):
please please tell me remember yeah, absolutely, the Ohio Innocence Project.
You can reach us here at five one three zero
seven five to And I also wanted to just add
that the fact that you know you were given the
chance to say anything after Jason, and your first thought
(38:31):
is to think of your two code defendants who are
still in prison, I think tells everybody all they need
to know about your character. Appreciate that. Thank you for
listening to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam. Please support your
local innocence projects and go to the link in our
(38:53):
bio to see how you can help. I'd like to
thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Clyburne and Kevin Warns.
The music on the show, as always is by three
time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow
us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at
Wrongful Conviction. Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam is a
(39:13):
production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal
Company Number one
In the late eighties and early nineties, the crack epidemic
was in full swing in many parts of the country,
including Lorraine, Ohio, where Sunset Boulevard was known as the
place to buy and smoke crack without being hassled by
the authorities. The infamously corrupt Lorraine police department had a
relationship with a drug dealer addict and a notorious informant
named William Avery Senior, who ran the scene on Sunset
(00:25):
Boulevard and he didn't appreciate New Yorkers encroaching on his turf.
On August, the bodies of Marcia Blakeley and Floyd Epps
were discovered separately. The tire marks on their heads were
at least in part to blame for their deaths. After
the cases went cold, two thousand dollar reward drew the
attention of William Avery Senior, who brought in his teenage
(00:48):
son to falsely accuse four men from New York, including
Al Cleveland. The fact that al Cleveland was in New
York at the time of the murder and that Avery
Junior recanted his statement at the first of the four
trials did not stop Prosecutor Jonathan Rosenbaum from going ahead
with all four of these sham trials. The Ohio criminal
(01:09):
legal system continuously ignored William Averred Jr's recantations for twenty
five long years, leaving parole as Al Cleveland's only avenue
for relief. This is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam. Welcome
(01:36):
back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom. That's me, and
today you're gonna hear a story that defies description. I'm
going to first of all, introduce first. Jennifer Passion Persund
has been on the show before, is the deputy director
of the Ohio Innocence Project. Jennifer, Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction.
Thank you, it's good to be back. And Al Cleveland,
(01:58):
Um No, I'm just gonna say this. Al has lived
about seven or eight lifetimes so far. Um, and he
survived twenty five years in prison for a gruesome double
murder that happened in Ohio while he was in Queens,
New York. That's just the beginning. So without further ado,
Al Cleveland, I'm so happy you're here. I'm sorry you
(02:20):
have to be here, but I'm happy you're here. Hey,
I'm here. I'm with Jason Blot you gotta realized, Jason,
Like I'm fresh home, like I've just been home maybe
five months, and I sat on the wreck visualizing this.
So here we are, and I'm excited. I'm pumped up,
and thank you for doing this. Thank you for doing this.
I don't even know what to say. That means. That
means more to me than you couldn't even know. And
(02:41):
so al going back to the beginning, you grew up
such a fascinating story. You were a hip hop artist,
and not only that, but you were very close friends
with L. L Cool J back in Hollis Queen's about that. Yeah,
so um, he grew up right around the corner from me.
So we were always in the basement, you know, making
(03:02):
mix tapes and making songs, and like I've seen his
ascent from the basement to you know, a national stage.
You know, used to go with him on tour, like
if he was in any of the surrounding states, we
would get in the van and go wherever he was
and get backstage passes and you know, just have tons
(03:23):
of fun. It was just tons of fun seeing that rise. Yeah,
you witnessed literally the birth of a legend. And here's
your dear friend I mean that rumor has it that
you actually painted his room. I mean, it's so crazy.
I did, I did, I did, and he owes me
thirty bucks still for it. Oh my god, with interest.
That's incredible. Um. In his book I Make My Own
(03:44):
Rules l L actually shouts you out and credit to
your artwork actually as an early inspiration of his. So
that's one. Okay, that's just one. You ain't heard nothing yet.
Stick with us, Okay. So another childhood friend of yours
is Damon John, and this I think highlights how crazy
and random all this ship is because I think it's
(04:05):
fair to say you all had the same potential, but
the system grabbed you and those guys went on to
become success stories while you were being held captive by
the state for a crime you didn't commit. And for
those of you who don't know, Damon John is the
founder and CEO of Fubu. So tell us about Damon
just quickly and how you come to know him in
the beginning. Oh, man, me and Damon we went to
(04:27):
the same Catholic school together in our neighborhood from maybe
second or third grade. All the way, uh, we're going adventures,
bike rides, camping with my dad. That was my guy.
I wrote a book about it, actually, a little children's book,
What don't you Do? I feel like you? Okay, but
we're gonna get into that later. So to set the stage,
we're back in the eighties and early nineties. The crack
(04:48):
epidemic was in full swing, and you were now going
back and forth to Northeast Ohio. Right, it seems so random.
Why would a kid from Queen's end up in Loren, Ohio. Alright, So,
since I'm talking to youth from and you've got experience
in the music business, I want to just go back
a little bit to help you and help everybody understand.
(05:09):
So late eighties, my sister gets killed by some skinheads
in Detroit, and it was a big thing. My mom
was protesting and but me, I internalized this thing and
just kind of like went into my art. And at
the time, I was doing graffiti and you know art
on that level, trying to get into galleries and trying
to make my way, but it wasn't happening. So I
(05:32):
started promoting parties, doing shows, ran into a guy who
had a studio. We started going to the studio. I
found out, Hey, I got some talent. I can rap,
I can do this. I see l L do it.
Let me take this route. So we started going to
the studio and making songs, and we started forming a
vision of what we wanted to do. But the problem
was Jason. Back then, you know, you had to get
(05:53):
records pressed up, you had to get a song mastered,
you had to go through all these steps, and I
didn't have the money for that. At every stage, we
kept finding ourselves os broke. So ninety one, a friend
of mine gets in touch with me. He had left
New York to go to Ohio with a few other
dudes and they were into the drug scene, low level,
(06:13):
but he was incarcerated and he asked me to help
him with the bond money. At the time, I didn't
have it. I only had my rep money. So he
enticed me a little more and told me he would
double my money. Just come on out, give him a
few days and he would have the money back for me.
And at the time I wanted to explore the music
scene out here. I said, you know what the heck man,
and I did it and I sent him the money
came out here. That's how I wound up out here.
(06:37):
He took me to a project. You know, he's showing
me how he does his thing. You know, gave me
the little package to hold. Police comes, they chase him,
arrest him. I have the little thing. I ditched, a
little thing. I wind up meeting some guys. Went to
a guy's house who wind up being the guy who
wanted setting us up. But I went to his house.
(06:57):
He asked me if I had anything, and I'm like,
I kind of do. He asked me about from New York.
Do I knows my code defendant? Like yeah, I know him. Yeah.
He's like, if you got something, I can sell it.
So I went and retrieved this stuff. You start breaking
it down when him I didn't even know. The prices
were haggling, and he takes what he buys from me,
goes right out into the street and he's stopping cars
(07:17):
like he's a traffic controller, is selling his thing. And
maybe hour and a half later, the whole little bag
of stuff I had was it was gone. I had
about in my pocket for the next thirty to forty days.
I just went on a mission to get my startup capital. So,
I mean, I know it was wrong, but that was
I had a vision. I had a vision, Jason, and
I can't leave out the fact that when you look
(07:39):
at the history of hip hop music, there's so many artists,
legendary artists who grew up the same way you did,
some of them from the same area you came from,
and you ended up in the crack game because that
was the option that was available at the time, like
you said, to get startup capital or whatever it may be.
And just by fate, they didn't get arrested. Um and
(08:00):
many people know the names I mean, because these people
are not they're not secretive about it. When I had
Mike Bail on the podcast and I asked him this
question how many people he met in prison that were
as talented as he is, and he said he couldn't
even count. How many. You know, I've met so many
guys in there, Jason, who the visionaries? You know, they're
the breadwinners and their families. And I just want to
make it clear. I just want to make sure I
(08:21):
share this message that if you do have a dream,
if you do have a vision, try to find out
how to do a business plan. Try to find out
how to go to a bank or ask people family
members to invest in your dream. Instead of taking that
route and putting yourself at risk to come to the
penitentiary because it's full of guys with dreams that fall through.
(08:44):
So I just wanted to share that. No, I'm glad
you did. And Jennifer, I want to talk about the
Lorraine Police Department because of course Loren Ohio was where
I was spending his time in those days, and they
were known for sexual abuse and brutality, which is sadly
a problem that exists to this day and so many
different police departments around this country. Can you paint a
picture of what was going on back then and there
(09:06):
and what was the deal with their unsavory relationship with
this shady character, William Avery Senior. Yeah, there was a
huge crack problem. Similar to lots of other areas in
the country. The police had people like William Avery Senior, who,
at least according to Avery, could kind of do some
(09:27):
favors as a see I and then be left alone
and do whatever you wanted. So there seemed to be
sort of this unofficial arrangement between the cops and some
of the people there. So it seemed to me that
when folks from New York came in and started sort
of messing with that system. It did not go over
well with either the residents or the police. You had
just gotten involved in this business so to speak out.
(09:49):
Were you aware of what the Lorraine Police Department was
up to? No, I wasn't actually um I found out
years later to our investigation that Code have been in
was the one who invited me out here. He was
kind of like a target. We actually found a picture
with him with a bull's on in their police files
like here, I am just waltz right into Lorraine. I
(10:09):
had no idea. You're sitting duck, let's face it. And
as part of the story centers around a guy named
William Avery Sr. Who was a prolific paid informant at
the time, and he received special treatment as informants do
in exchange for his help. He lived on Sunset Boulevard
in Lorraine, Ohio with his son, William Avery Jr. Who
(10:30):
he had introduced to crack when the kid was just
fourteen years old, and this had become this sort of
neighborhood spot where people would come to smoke crack and
the police looked the other way, of course, because he
was helping them out while lying for them on cases.
As well as maybe providing accurate information once in a while.
I have no idea. And then there was Marcia Blakeley. Well,
Marcia Blakely was the murder victim. I'm she was a
(10:51):
young woman who was addicted to crack and other drugs
and was known on the streets for turning tricks selling
stolen goods to feed her addiction. She was just a
user who, for reasons that I still don't quite understand,
ended up brutally murdered in this whole situation. Yes, so
she and a guy named Floyd Epps turned up dead,
(11:13):
and this is, you know, one of the most brutal
crimes I've ever heard of. On August eighth, thanking anyone
at in the morning, Marsha Blakely's body was discovered in
an alley behind the Westgate Shopping Center in the rain.
She had twenty five stab wounds, fractured ribs, of broken neck,
a slit throat, and torture wounds on her neck and head.
(11:33):
And if that wasn't enough, her head had been run
over by a car twice now. Earlier that same day
at am, Floyd Epps's body was found nearby, and his
head had also been run over by a car. So
this is bizarre because police believe that the murders were related.
Anyone would of course, I mean, you don't hear stories
too often people being the heads run over by cars, thankfully,
(11:54):
but no arrests were made in the Epps killing, and
no arrested and made to this date, which is the
whole separate problem. But with nothing was happening with these cases,
the cops wire offered a two thousand dollar reward for information.
So now we go all the way to over a
month later, September ten, William Avery Senior said he had
information and they told him that the reward would only
(12:18):
be given to someone with firsthand knowledge. Yeah, so William
every Senior takes his son, William Avery Junior in the
next day to meet with the cops to say what
you know, he knew about the crime. But his story
as it was told that day does not match up
to what he eventually said in the trials. And in addition,
it was just a bizarre meeting where you know, the
(12:40):
cops are interviewing William Avery Jr. About supposedly witnessing this burder,
and yet his father sat in on the entire interview.
And said like, yeah, I'm here to remind him of
the things that he forgot, which just raised all kinds
of red flags. But yet that's that's what they went with.
So when Every Senior and Junior went to the police,
(13:01):
Junior implicated four individuals and the death of Marsha Blakeley.
That four men were Lenworth Edwards, Benson Davis, John Edwards,
and Alfred Cleveland, men that he claimed were drug dealers
from New York. Now. Avery Junior went on to say
that he owed you Al money and in order to
pay off the debt. Avery Junior claimed that Al took
him to Apps's apartment where Marcia Blakely was and that
(13:23):
Al told him to assault her. Avery Junior claimed to
refuse because he knew Marsha Blakely. So, according to this
crazy tale from Every Junior, the three other men assaulted
her for twenty minutes while he and Al watched. Avery
continued on that he went back to his apartment after
the assault, but said that Al came by after and
told him, quote, we took care of the junkie, We
(13:47):
knocked her off, and thanks just started rolling from there.
Although they never really found any other evidence at all,
implicating these guys, but he can't find stuff that doesn't
exist because they weren't exactly So you were aren't even
in Ohio? Right? What tell us where you were during
this week? And how we know that that's really true?
All right? So, yeah, I was on probation at the time.
(14:07):
I didn't realize when I was going to trial. I
wasn't sure because it was like four years later that
that was the day that I went to my probation officer,
but I knew. I went back to New York to
see my probation officer and I was in New York
with Damon John, who had a van business at the time.
I went to buy a TV and I needed him
to come bring the TV to my house. And this
(14:30):
is all, you know, the seventh, the eighth, when these
people were killed, and when I was going to trial,
I had to receive for this TV. You know, we
got those times. You know. He came to trial and
prosecuted trying to dog him out like he was some
young punk. You know, he tried to discredit him and
it was crazy. I mean, the stage acknowledged that he
had seen the probation officer in New York on August seven.
(14:50):
But they just said, well, he must have decided he
was gonna either drive or fly to Ohio to come
and commit this brutal murder against this woman. He didn't
even know. But it was just the word of one person,
that was it. So four people were victims of this
compromise to say the least paid informant and it was
a two award and then they paid him again. Yeah,
he got the two thousand dollar award for coming forward initially,
(15:13):
which was interesting because the award was listed for anyone
would get it, leading to an arrest. They arrest lyne
Worth Edwards, one of the co defendants. He gets the
two thousand dollars. They then schedule a deposition of William
Avery Jr. Claiming that his life is in danger or something,
and he gets paid again, and then he ends up
getting paid more. So at the end of the bowl saga,
(15:34):
he ended up getting paid around five thousand dollars for
his testimony. Right, we're talking five thousand more money than
it is today. Yeah, absolutely, to someone who was a
crack addict who you know, on the stand said he
never really had a job, so this was his income.
So Avery Junior changed and recanted his story multiple times
after the initial interrogation, but his claims anyway were enough
(15:56):
and the authorities were happy to use them to convict
four are men. Avery Junior was supposed to testify the
first trial because guys were tried separately. Right, Lyndworth Edwards
was the first trial. Yes, so at Lyndworth Edwards first trial,
this was the first of the four to be tried. Yeah,
William Avery Jr. Basically demanded ten thousand dollars to keep
(16:18):
giving his testimony, which you know, of course, the prosecutor said, well, no,
we're not paying you anything. So at this point, Avery Jr.
Then says, well, I'm not going to testify. Everything I
said before was a lie. So yeah, they end up
throwing him in jail and charging him with contempt. But
he later comes back and it's the second trial for
(16:38):
Linworth and says, well, the reason I flip flopped before
was because I was threatened in the jail if I
went forward with telling what I know about this crime.
And so that's how they got away with putting on
his testimony in Lyndberth's second trial and then in the
rest of the defendants trials. However, we found out later
(17:02):
years later, was that those threats never happened. We found
records showing that Avery Jr. He actually got in trouble
for making false reports about getting threatened. And so the
whole case was just built on a live basically a
lot of lies, um but um and out your trial.
(17:23):
You were the third one tried right, and your trial
lasted six days. When the jury came in, I turned
around to look at them and I saw it was hatred.
Bro So I hatred and uh my mom was there
(17:49):
a couple of supporters. And when the judge read the verdict,
he told me I'm sentenced to life. And I told
me I didn't do it. You know, damn the screech
when he said guilty, the screech king m mother's voice.
(18:17):
I knew it took a part, the yank, a serious
part from All I can do is trying to turn around,
comfort her like it's gonna be okay, It's gonna be
all right. This episode is underwritten by the A I
(18:43):
G pro Bono Program. A I G is a leading
global insurance company, and for over a decade, the A
I G pro Bono Program has provided thousands of hours
of free legal services and other support to nonprofit organizations
and individuals most in need. Or recently, the program added
criminal and social justice reform as a key pillar of
(19:05):
its mission. Yeah. So, um, I went to a high
security prison they call them close camps where they send
people that you know, done some of society's worst crimes there.
And those first six or seven years that kind of
(19:26):
blurried to me because I was so focus on fighting
and educate myself. I had to totally like re educate
myself because everything I had thought I believed turned out
to be alive about the system and everything. You know,
I had to learn about myself. You know. I learned
about my history, learned about the history of this country,
(19:49):
learned about you know, other people who suffered injustices, and
tried to understand how these things happened. You know, it
wasn't just me, and I started learning like, man, this
is a big problem. So I just got on a
mission to better myself and better educate myself so I
(20:09):
could learn how to write better, learn how to communicate better,
to get support. You know, I had to be able
to write people. It's like you're going on a campaign
and you just gotta learn how to articulate yourself at
the same time growing spiritually, working out, trying to be
an impact on the guys in there, because I started
seeing that, you know, a lot of guys who weren't
(20:30):
educated at all, like no g ds and a lot
of illiteracy. So I put myself in a block where
I can tutor guys and just help out in that way.
I knew it was other guys that were innocent, and
if they were illiterate, they didn't stand a chance. You know,
tons of guys in there for stuff they didn't do,
but they don't have any support. They don't know how
to explain their situations. They don't even really know what happened.
(20:53):
They don't really understand the language that was used on
in the courtroom, that just sitting there trying to fight
their way through the everyday life of prison. So I
just had to try to be an impact in there.
I wasn't going to allow what happened to me to
make me bitter, make me angry, because I saw that
it's directly affects your health. So I had to make
(21:14):
my mind up to you know, understand forgiveness and trying
to understand that maybe these people made the mistakes. Maybe
they really thought we did do this, you know, but
I found out later on. This is what gets me angry, man,
is that they knew it was other people and other suspects.
They will own these guys, trail man, and these are
people that we're finding out other people that committed the crime,
(21:35):
and they were on that track, but just wanted us
just focus on us, man, and went forward with a
full story at preschool. It could have poked holes in
this guy's story, but they moved forward with it. Yeah.
I mean, it's extraordinary to me that you and others
have found a way to not only find this spiritual
(21:56):
grace or whatever you want to call it, but also
to overcome the best word I can think of this
incredible hardship is not even I can't find the right where.
But it's worth noting that Al was convicted about five
years after the crime was committed all the way, and
that same year there was a motion for a new
(22:17):
trial based on an Affidavid from Jeremiah abdul at Charlton Al.
Who was he and why was his affi David significant?
So this was a few years after my conviction. I
run into this guy who says he had some information
that he's been trying to share and had in fact
shared with police, and he was the last person to
(22:40):
see Marsha Blakeley. At least he alleged he was, you know,
put her into the car with two guys to exchange
for drugs. I guess he was like pimping, so to speak,
and he put her in the car with these guys.
So the judge did give us a hearing based on
his affidavit. Anytime somebody files an affidavit, you have to
come to testify to the truthfulness of the affidavit. But
(23:04):
when we get to the hearing, my lawyer wasn't even prepared,
didn't call him, didn't subpoena, and lo and behold, I
found out this same prosecutor had indicted her for some
some stuff in her office, you know, stuff that they
were going through, and had her under indictment at the
time of that hearing. So she wasn't in the right mind.
And the judge denied the hearing based on her unpreparedness.
(23:27):
And she was a good attorney, I mean, she she fought,
she believed in me, but she couldn't go up against
these guys. Man, they were too influential. It seems to
me that there were any number of times when the
state had not just the opportunity, but the obligation to
right this wrong, but like it often does, instead it
(23:47):
sort of got under its shell like a turtle and
deflected any new information or evidence to protect this wrongful
conviction or these for wrong for convictions. Yeah, out did
his sort of regular direct appeals which didn't go anywhere.
And then later Avery Jr. You know, the only guy
that put him at the scene, he recanted and admitted
(24:07):
that he made the whole thing up. What's interesting about
that is it took a long time for Al's family
to track down Avery Junior. He kind of lived off
the grid and it was hard to find him. But
once they did and he admitted, you know that he
he had lied in this. What we later found out
was that that wasn't the first time he recanted. He
actually recanted a couple of years before that to an
(24:31):
FBI agent in Detroit, just completely out of the blue
and on his own. Nobody from the state ever got
ahold of Al or any of his attorneys to let
him know that. So at that point there was no
evidence left and the states admitted that in filings before
that without Avery Jr. There's no case against al. So
this was before Ohio Innocence Project and I got involved
(24:53):
in the case. But he went back to state court
with this sworn statement in affidavit from Avery Junior. And
in the state court they finally eventually held a hearing
where they called him in to testify. Well, they read
him his rights on the stand, trying to prosecute him
with perjury in the four different trials. If he proceeded
to recant on the stand and he said, well, I'm
(25:14):
not going to prison for thirty years, took the fifth
and walked out. Now, the only reasonable conclusion you could
draw from that was that he was going to testify
that he lied at the trial because he wasn't in
any danger if he was going to suddenly say he
was telling the truth at the trial, if that makes sense.
But in any case, he walks outside and there's an
interview with a reporter right afterwards where he says, dude's innocent,
(25:37):
but I'm not going to prison for it. Yeah. Yeah,
his silence spoke volumes absolutely, and if they were interested
in justice, they would have let him testify. So yeah,
then he lost there, and then we ended up in
federal court, and that's where I kind of came in.
We know how difficult the federal court is, unfortunately, due
to the chances of success in federal court are basically
(26:00):
the same as a snowballs chance in hell. But tell
us what you did, how you did it, and how
the hell you finally managed to bring him home is
a miracle. So we filed it in federal court, and
the district court had said that we couldn't go forward
with the habeas case because there's this statute of limitations
for of one year, and long story short, they said
(26:22):
we were too late. So we filed an appeal because
there's this exception if you can show that someone is
actually innocent, and that's what we did with the recantation
from avery. And then we had evidence from the alibi
witnesses and additional alibi witnesses as well. So the state,
you know, had poked holes in Al's alibi a trial
(26:45):
by saying, well, he could have driven or flown here
after the times we knew he was in New York. Well,
we had additional witnesses that we found that proved that
Al was in New York at the time the crime happened,
or so close in time to it that unless he
could time travel, he could not have possibly gone back
to Ohio. So based on those things, we convinced the
(27:08):
six Circuit that we had shown that he was actually innocent.
That didn't mean that he got to go home. That
just meant that we got the right to actually pursue
the habeas claims in the district court. So I mean
in federal court you have to make federal constitutional claims.
So we were making federal claims of Brady violations where
(27:28):
the state had hit evidence and also that they had
intentionally put on false evidence from Avery that they knew
was false, and also claimed like in effective assistance of
trial counsel for failing to find some of these additional
alibi witnesses. And then we also made a claim based
on actual innocence and said, you know, he has a
federal constitutional right to not be imprisoned if he's actually innocent,
(27:51):
although interestingly, the U. S. Supreme Court even to this
day has not expressly recognized that that's a federal constitutional
right to not be in prison and if you're innocent.
So we had this hearing and then we lost I mean,
I can't even describe how I felt when the notification
came in. It came over email and I saw it,
(28:12):
and I think I just about fell out of my chair.
You know, Losing the appeals in this case has been
I think the hardest thing I've had to deal with professionally.
It's still boggles my mind and infuriates me and saddens
me all at the same time. And then, because of
(28:33):
the weirdness of habeas law, we weren't allowed to appeal directly.
We had to ask for permission to appeal. And then
the Sixth Circuit, which was the same court that had
said we had put forward a case showing that al
was actually innocent, then denied us the right to appeal
and said we didn't even have the right to appeal,
which I still can't explain that. I don't know how
you say, well, it looks like he's actually innocent, then
(28:55):
get more evidence supporting that, and then just say, well,
never mind, we're not going to hear claim anymore. But
that's what happened. That's our system, ladies and gentlemen. The
Sixth Circuits said, yeah, you're innocent, but no, we're not
going to give you a new trial. Furthermore, the Supreme
Court has said that actual innocence doesn't necessarily provide a
(29:17):
basis for relief. I think it was Scalia who made
that awful statements. And you know, we should all be
reviled by this, like what are you talking about? Like
what the fuck are you talking about? That actual innocence
is not a basis for relief. Yes it is. Everybody
knows this, and yet that's not the way it works here.
(29:41):
It's like procedure is more important than justice. Is basically
what it comes down to, and it's madness. It's absolute madness.
And we're here, Alice, here in the flesh, as a
living example of just how wrong all of this is.
But before we get to the close into the show,
I want to talk about one other, absolutely extraordinary aspect
(30:06):
of your life, and that is your wife and family.
It's beautiful. In all this darkness and misery, this woman,
who I look forward to meeting some day, stood by you.
How is that even possible? Years We did an interview
yesterday and I asked her junior interview, what would make
(30:27):
a woman make such a huge sacrifice in her life,
and she just said, man, love, I mean, it was
very powerful and this woman loves me man like. That's
why I made that song Jennifer about you, guys, and
I'm telling you all through the song like love can
do all things. Yeah, I had Damon John as a
(30:48):
friend and he did Rise while I was in prison
and helped out with attorney fees where he could and
where I needed him to. But it wasn't money. It
was the love of people, was a love of my wife.
It was a love of family members who supported me.
It was a love of Jennifer and then Innocence Project
and it's just me saying things. So I want to
share that. You know, I'll go by the name of
(31:10):
Deacon Cleveland. It's called Welcome Back, and it's awesome. Thanks
for all of them prayers, Thanks for all of your
thoughts while I was up in there. Appreciate you to
water while I was doing. I'm so happy that your
talents will finally be put to use in the world.
(31:31):
So everyone, please make sure you scroll down. We'll have
all of this length in the bio. And don't forgive
my wife in that books. She's sitting right here with me.
Three Strands, one Core, A Couple's Guide to Understanding Incarceration
for couples and families going through in conseration, if they
need some help on how to navigate that terrain and
(31:52):
make it through and possibly even thrive in love, then
get the book. It's our way of serving that community.
So three strands, one chord, Couple's Gods to Understanding Incarceration,
ROBERTA and Alpha Cleveland, thank you for real man, those
that the Ohio Innocence Project, Jennifer rannelm and Morgan Jassy
(32:15):
in Virginia and uh Jason Flam and Lorie Pushing, praying,
my wife, my kids, never complaining once more? Was the
house this crazy crazy, It's summer of Jennifer. You presented
(32:43):
OL's case of innocence along with countless letters of support
and had that pro board hearing. They voted in favor
of Owl's release. So in Ohio, the way it works
as if you are recommended for prole and certain crimes,
the victims family or the prosecutor has the opportunity to object.
(33:03):
So that's what happened, and so then it goes to
the full parole boards. There was ten members and we
went in. Person Al was not there. It was me
and his wife. We came in and spoke, and then
Damon John spoke via the internet, and then you know,
the victims family members were allowed to speak to But
it was a really moving and overwhelming moment because one
(33:24):
of the victims family members actually spoke out in favor
of Pearle because she didn't think that they had done
the crime either, which just hearing that was overwhelming. So
the whole Pearl Board left and we just kind of
had to sit there and wait for them to make
a decision, which was one of the longest times of
waiting I think I've ever felt. But they came back
in and it was nine to one in favor of
(33:46):
parole for him and his conefident Lyndworth Edwards was also
up that day and so they both were granted it,
And I mean, it was just incredible knowing he was
finally going to come home, and it was frustrating knowing
he wasn't getting exhonerate did or no one was acknowledging
his innocence yet, but at least he'd be home. It's
(34:07):
it's anticlimactic in a sense because this is important for
the audience to hear al still hasn't been declared. Actually innocent,
which means he's not eligible for compensation. He still has
to be on parole, etcetera. I'm going to put it
out there right now. I mean, I think we have
to explore the possibility of getting an absolute pardon. You know,
I will help in any way that I'm asked too.
(34:29):
I don't want to get in the way. I think
the governor of Ohio is a reasonable and decent man. Well,
thank you. Well, I will say that we're not done yet.
We think we've identified who actually did the crime, and
so you know, we're now in the position the only
legal avenue he has forward at this point is if
we can solve the crime for the state and kind
of take it to them, which is what we're working on.
(34:50):
So stay tuned. Hopefully this isn't the end. Hopefully he
will eventually get the exoneration he deserves. Amen to that.
And at this point we turned to the part where
I first of all, thank each of you for being
here and sharing this unbelievable story. And now I'm going
(35:12):
to introduce the closing of the show, which is called
closing arguments are probably enough, And this is the part
where I turn off my microphone, kick back in my chair,
close my eyes, leave my headphones on, and I turn
it over to you first, Jennifer for closing arguments, whatever
you want to say, anything you think that's left unsaid,
and then we'll save the best for last, and would
(35:33):
go to you Al for your closing arguments, and that's
how we'll end the show. Well, I wanted to say
thank you for having me on today and listening to
the story about we barely scratch the surface of all
the crazy twists and turns of this case, but I
appreciate you bringing this to the audience, and Al, I
(35:54):
just wanted to say thank you for you know, believing
in me over this whole time, even when things haven't
gone as we hoped. But I'm just so delighted that
your home, and I'm so excited to see all the
good that you're doing in the world. And I'm happy
that other people now finally get to see what I've
been able to see for the last eleven years that
we've been working on this case together. And I'm excited
(36:17):
to see what comes in your future. But also just
a reminder that you can't do it all in a day,
because I know you're trying now, so Jennifer, I want
to first, I want to thank you. I want to
thank Cassie. I want to thank Moran, want to thank
Virginia or think Professor Gatzi for you know, back in
US putting you in position for taking the case, taking
(36:40):
a huge burden off of me and my family. You know.
Thank you. Second, Jason, you talked about going to the
governor for a pardon and helping in any way. You
can thank you for that. But I have two co
defendants who are still incarcerated, Ben's and Davis and John
and it, and if we went to the governor about anything,
(37:05):
I would want the focus to be them and their
release because they're sitting in there. Their poorer boar dates
didn't come up like Lenny's and ours did. They're still
in there and they don't deserve to be there, So
any efforts in that area I would love to be
focused on them. I'm gonna be all right, bro, I'm
(37:28):
gonna be okay, you know what I mean. But them,
and if anybody out there has any information, you know
what a long shot this is on the wrong forul
Previction podcast. Who knows somebody might listen to this and
have some information about who really committed the crimes. We
think we know the truth, we think we know who
(37:50):
did it, but we need confirmation, we need concrete evidence.
So please contact my lawyer at the Innocence Project, Jennifer.
Please tell them your number or who they can contact
if you have any information, contact them. Un let's get
this overwit so we can get these men out of prison. Jennifer,
(38:11):
please please tell me remember yeah, absolutely, the Ohio Innocence Project.
You can reach us here at five one three zero
seven five to And I also wanted to just add
that the fact that you know you were given the
chance to say anything after Jason, and your first thought
(38:31):
is to think of your two code defendants who are
still in prison, I think tells everybody all they need
to know about your character. Appreciate that. Thank you for
listening to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam. Please support your
local innocence projects and go to the link in our
(38:53):
bio to see how you can help. I'd like to
thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Clyburne and Kevin Warns.
The music on the show, as always is by three
time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow
us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at
Wrongful Conviction. Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam is a
(39:13):
production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal
Company Number one
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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