June 16, 2021 • 47 mins
This is an updated episode that originally aired on July 29, 2020.
On the night of April 25th, 1976, a wealthy, 54 year old widow was burglarized and sexually assaulted in Concord, North Carolina. Police and prosecutors then conspired to elicit a mistaken witness ID, mishandle and suppress evidence, commit perjury and ignore alibis to wrongfully convict Ronnie Long and send him to prison for 44 years.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Since our initial release of Ronnie Long story, there have
been some incredible developments, and this is a re release
of that story with new content outlining the great news.
At around on the night of April nineteen seventy six,
the fifty four year old widow of a Cannon Mills
(00:20):
executive was at her home and Conquered, North Carolina when
a man grabbed her from behind. She fought him, scratching
her attacker so hard that her nails bent backwards, but
ultimately he overpowered and raped her. She described her assailant
as a light skinned black man with no mention of
facial hair, wearing a dark leather coat and a beanie hat.
(00:42):
A rape kit was done and the police carefully collected
a mountain of forensic evidence. Meanwhile, across town, nineteen year
old Ronnie Long was at home with his mother, on
the phone with the mother of his own two year
old son till ten PM. A few days later, Ronnie
received a court summons for trespassing in the park after hours.
(01:03):
He was wearing a dark leather coat at the time.
Police would ask the rape victim to be present in
court to see if her attacker was present. On the day,
Ronnie the owner of a dark leather coat, was scheduled
to appear disguised. She sat in the gallery for two
hours in Ronnie's presence, only to identify him as her
attacker when his name was called. The state would present
(01:26):
a case without any of the collected forensic or biological evidence,
solely resting their case upon this extremely unorthodox and totally
unreliable cross racial identification and Ronnie's unscratched leather coat. For that,
Ronnie has been in prison for forty four years. This
(01:49):
is wrongful conviction with Jason Flomer, Welcome back to wrongful Conviction.
Today's case, will Um. It's going to upset you. I'm
(02:12):
gonna tell you right now. This is a grotesque injustice
that was inflicted and is still being inflicted on an
amazing man named Ronnie Long. And we're hoping to hear
from Ronnie during the recording. We'll be calling in from
prison where he has been since nineteen seventies six for
(02:32):
a crime he didn't commit. In this time of COVID,
there's all sorts of complications, so we're going to try
to make it work with us now as well is
Jamie Law. Jamie is an attorney at Duke University's Wrongful
Convictions Clinic. And Jamie, thank you for joining us on
the show. Thank you for having me. I'm want to
(02:55):
do something unusual here. I actually want to start at
the end. We we almost ever do that. But there's
a quote from a judge named James Wynn, who's a
circuit court judge in the fourth District Court. So this
is a serious guy. And Judge Wynn said, and I quote,
(03:16):
prosecutors clearly had evidence that any defense counsel in the world,
not only in but in the history of this country
would have wanted or needed, and which should have been supplied,
and yet we did not provide it. He goes on
to say, what is it about us that we want
(03:40):
to prosecute and keep people in jail when we know
evidence may exist that might lead to a different conclusion.
Why is that so offensive to us now that we
want to protect illegal activity from forty four years ago?
What's the harm of looking at the new evidence? He said?
(04:01):
When did justice leave the process? So we let our
rules blind us to what we all can see. Wow. Well,
during the course of argument, it made us optimistic that
after forty four years, um end maybe near to the
(04:21):
injustice that occurred in Ronnie's case. It's been an incredible
difficult journey through the courts to get his case to
where it was. On May seven of this year, you
said we'll start at the end, and the end at
this point in time was an argument on May seven
in front of the full four Circuit Court of Appeals,
(04:42):
which is fifteen active judges, all have been appointed by
a President judge when was making that quote in response
to arguments from the State of North Carolina that more
or less was asking the court to disregard all the
evidence that is now known about in this case that
was hid from Ronnie at the time of his trial
(05:05):
in nineteen seventy six. And Judge win also discussed sort
of the circumstances of nineteen seventy six and the conditions
of black males, particularly in the South in nineteen seventy six,
and how they were wrongfully convicted in great numbers. So
at the moment Judge Wynn offered his viewpoints during the
(05:26):
course of the stakes argument, we knew that we had
succeeded in conveying to the court the seriousness and the
magnitude of the injustice that occurred in Ronnie's case has promised.
We got a phone call from Ronnie, and I must
warn you that there was a poor connection with the prison.
So ron is a little hard to hear. But what
he has to say needs to be heard, so please
(05:49):
bear with us. You know how to play paid call.
You will not be charged for this call. This call
is from and in mad End album Le Correctional Institution.
This call will be monitored and recorded. To accept this call,
Prince Stive now to decline this call. Hang up. Thank
(06:10):
you for using global tie link. Hi Ronnie, thanks for
calling me. I know we have a limited time, so
let's get right into it now. You grew up in
conquered North Carolina, right, seven brothers and sisters. Can you
tell me a little bit about your life before all
of this horrible stuff happened? Pretty sports? When I was
in how school? Wait, I learned how to leave. That's
(06:35):
care of work I was doing with my dad. I'll
go to work with him sometimes big money with young
still a lot of time with my phone him his model.
Thank you's a little cool in the game. The game
when I never treat it with three Now I read
about this one time before you had your son way
(06:56):
before the incident that lands you in prison, there was
an encounter that you once had with some police officers.
They pulled up on you, harassed you a bit, Hey,
you know what you're doing around here? Boy type of thing,
and you responded, isn't this America? Aren't I free to
walk on this sidewalk? That right? I was coming from
a girl house? How coming from the girl house one night?
(07:17):
The area that was in it was only this area,
so I'll come at all one night, the two white
cups pull behind me, Ada, what are you coming from?
What are you doing in this area here? Pally? Did
you walk side walk here? They took me to me
(07:38):
to be down, I stated, a pay about to round
not also came up tops ago. You can leave. I
just gotta walk up with all all. And that's it
seems to be how he got to be on the
radar of the local authorities. And then on the faithful
(07:58):
day of Sunday six around pm, a wealthy white, fifty
four year old widow of a Cannon Mills executive was
burglarized and raped. Awful, awful crime. And Cannon Mills was
a major employer in the area. And that name is
going to come to play a big role in this.
(08:20):
In this story, the victim said that while she was
preparing food for a beach trip the following day, a
black man snuck into her home and grabbed her from behind.
She said the intruder told her that he only had
fifteen minutes as his friends were waiting for him outside
like a horror movie, and he proceeded to rape her.
She later described her attacker as quote yellow looking and
(08:42):
quote again not blue black, maybe wearing gloves, a beanie hat,
no mention of any facial hair, and a dark leather coat.
She also described the violent struggle where she scratched her
attacker so hard that her fingernails bent backward, which would
definitely have left the mark on that leather coat. The
victim said that whenever she tried to move, he would
(09:02):
slam her head against the ground. Then the phone rang,
startling the attacker, who gathered his things and left through
the front door. The victim then rushed over to her
neighbors naked, where she was able to call the police,
and they arrived around ten pm. The victim has since
passed away um, but that being said, she was rushed
(09:24):
to the hospital for a rape kit and the doctor
performed all the tests and collected all the biological evidence
and everything else. What happened next is that Detective Eisenhower
of the Concord Police Department arrived at the victim's home
around ten thirty, photographed the house, and began collecting evidence,
(09:45):
including latent fingerprints, carpet samples, suspect hair paint samples, as
well as pieces of the victim's clothing and partially burned matches,
and he later brought them to the State Bureau of
Investigation office at Raleigh for examination. He also lifted a
latent shoe print from a column near the porch. Now
(10:05):
this is important. Later has nothing but the shoe print
was ever discussed at trial. And before we go any further,
we need to state clearly that Ronnie had a solid alibi.
And remember the crime took place at Ronnie at around
nine thirty. You were at home with your mother, waiting
on your father to get back with the car so
(10:26):
you could head out to a party in Charlotte. You
were on the phone with the mother of your child.
Your mom hopped on the phone a few times to
say hello to her grandson. Right, yes, on the phone too.
But you can't all understand what you say, but he's
trying to talk and says that he on the phone
to my mom, was on the phone. I'll stay on
the phone. I'm gonna stays on the phone, and I'm
(10:50):
waiting on my dad to come back with your card.
I'm trying to cross one or two party and shout.
So Jamie, can you take us back to how Ronnie
came to be implicated in it and how he could
have possibly been convicted in spite of no evidence at all,
(11:11):
none zero. Yeah. Ronnie, very much like other young black
men in nineteen seventy six and still today, was harassed
by law enforcement officers. That harassment directly led to what
ultimately becomes this forty four year old wrongful conviction. On April,
the victim is assaulted and raped in her home. A
(11:34):
few days after that, Ronnie receives a trespassing charge at
the local park that was adjacent to his home when
he shouldn't have been there, and during that time it
appears that he was observed wearing a black leather coat.
The officer who stopped him recalled that the person who
was described by the victim had been wearing a dark
(11:55):
leather coat on the night of April when she gave
a description to law enforce it, and despite Ronnie not
matching other very prominent features that were included in her description,
the officer decided that perhaps he was the individual who
had assaulted the victim. I mean it was significant the
disparities between her description of her assailant and Ronnie. She
(12:18):
described her assailant as a yellow black male. In the
South at the time, to describe somebody as a yellow
black male meant a light skinned black person of mixed origin.
She never mentioned her assailant having facial hair. Ronnie had
facial hair, and disputed that he had facial hair on
April nineteen seventy six when she was assaulted. So despite
(12:42):
him having a different complexion having facial hair, where she
never described facial hair, he becomes a suspect. Officers then
go to her home and says, we have reason to
believe that the individual who had assaulted you will be
in the courtroom on this date fifteen days later, May
tenth nine, and we'd like you to come down to
(13:05):
the courtroom to see if you can identify the person
who attacked you there. So immediately in her mind she
thinks they've done some investigation and have identified a likely suspect,
but all they had done is made the connect um
to the fact that Ronnie had a black leather coat,
similar to what she described. The real curious thing with
(13:26):
respect to law enforcement asking the victim to go to
the courthouse to try and make identification is they had
a picture of Long that they could have shown her
when they went to her and asked her to come
to the courthouse, And they could have did it in
a fair procedure, or as fair as these identification procedures
can be, with the inclusion of fillers to ensure that
(13:47):
she's selecting him from memory and not because he looks
most like the attacker or because she's being presented a
suspect in a very suggestive way. They elected to forego that.
So she's out to the courthouse dressed in a disguise
because she's fearful that if her attacker was there, he'd
recognize her. She describes during her testimony being terrified. She
(14:12):
six in the courtroom for an hour and a half
in Long's presence and fails to identify him, and only
when his name is called and he walks up to
resolve the trespassing charge, which was dismissed that day. Did
she say he's the one? But it's telling because we
later learned during her testimony at trial that there were
(14:35):
only twelve black males in the courtroom. She quickly eliminated
several of them because they had afros where they were older.
She described one as being old and hunched over, and
she says that he was the only one that looked
remotely similar to her attacker. And identification evidence is already
flawed and highlighting reliable, but here you can just take
(14:57):
her words that she's just picking the person that's most
likely to be her attacker, that's president in the courtroom,
so she can in the experience where she's traumatized and terrified,
so that in essence becomes the only evidence against Long.
And here we are, forty four years later, trying to
undo that identification. And I'm glad you brought that up, Jamie,
(15:18):
because we know the most unreliable eye witness identification as
cross racial. This fits exactly into that category. And then,
of course there's still room for it to get worse.
So Ronnie, take us back to the day that you
were in court for the misdemeanor trespassing charge when you
had no idea. You couldn't have had any idea that
(15:40):
there was a rape victim in the gallery who was
being led to believe that her attacker was in the
courtroom that day. And the craziest thing is that you
two were in each other's presence for nearly two hours
before she idd you right, yeah, they misdemeanor just passing
black go downtown. You know I'm sitting there for the
(16:01):
nun o'clock lived day. When you called my name, I
stood up. We'll walk down front me and my dad.
This is when the polony said, when they say that
she had the same two detectives there was on this
tape that did on this case the whole time they
were sitting in the jury box. She's testified that it
was exact me, twelve black an import room. There's not
(16:26):
an eat people here looking like me. She's supposed to
be looking for a young black head that I saw
this her, but she distinctly stated that she's looked around
and looked around and looked around it to the trash group,
and I didn't see nobody. I want you home king
to think about me, she said. She said in the
court room there for all on her heads, looking around,
(16:47):
and she still didn't see anymore the people want. She
didn't see any one. You'll still said, because of the
scriptures that she gave the polies with the light skinned
black man with no hand on his face. I'm sitting
up in there and you understanding, says god skinned but
hand on my face. So I didn't ask another the
description your stun said that she were looking for. That's
(17:08):
why she couldn't pick me out. When she picked me
out here, say said. When they called my name, run
alone or to the front, run alone? Uh, if you
ain't court I said, yeah, we come down front. And
that's when she said, she's looking down. She didn't recognize me.
She's looking down my name. You go, number one. How
are you gonna sit in the courtroom, you know, says
a whole hour to head they're living. It ain't a
twelve blocks in them people sitting there for a whole
(17:30):
hour and a half. You don't see this young black
man that you're looking for the reading. You don't see
it because she's not Yeah he got he got held
it the court acts. This woman could pot eat the
part that I told you to pick and run alone.
See they could have I don't know. That's in the trash.
(17:54):
They could have. I don't know. The Pacers Foundation is
a proud supporter of this episode of Ronval Conviction with
Jason Flam and of the Last Mile organization, which provides
business and tech training to help incarcerated individuals successfully and
(18:15):
permanently re enter the workforce. The Pacers Foundation is committed
to improving the lives of Hoosiers across Indiana, supporting organizations
that are dedicated primarily to helping young people and students.
For more information on the work of the Pacers Foundation
or the Last Mile program, please visit Pacers Foundation dot
org or the Last Mile dot org. This episode is
(18:40):
underwritten by Paul Weiss, Rifkin, Horton and Garrison, a leading
international law firm. Paul Weiss has long had an unwavering
commitment to providing impactful, pro bono legal assistance to the
most vulnerable members of our society and in support of
the public interest, including extensive work in the criminal justice area.
(19:06):
So the victim makes this shaky identification, tells the detectives,
but you've got no idea that any of this is
going on. You're there for this misdemeanor charge, which gets dismissed,
and then you go home. But that was not the
last you'd see of law enforcement that day. We went
home with the ill wake up a while. When Ronnie
(19:36):
was picked up, he was not told that he was
suspected of this brain Instead, he arrived at the station
at PM, was read his rights, and the police claimed
that they asked permission to search his car, but they hadn't,
and then they testified to finding gloves, matchbooks, and a
(19:56):
beanie in the car. Ronnie maintains at the loves her heads,
but the penie was not. I followed the police downtown.
I used to drive with gloves on, but when I
get out of cars my clothes off. I speak to
my home and my sons. Val I tried to call
a locked though I got on reflect me of the jacket. Yeah,
(20:19):
I'll go there they kill me. I'm on suspecting of
ripon bager kids. I'll take the keys up and they
take the keys up in front out to go with
the same to the kids that there was in the
court room that morning. Yo, man with all going with
my keys, bring my keys that killed. They're just want
to look in your car. You ain't gotten in the
hide now, but yin gave you permission to look at
my car either. So they go down look at my car.
(20:43):
They come back again. They got mom. She took my
other jacket off of menkid, just the mother stuff. I
had my glove. They had lime green to barget that
I had never seen a dead my life. And for
anyone who doesn't know, it's a bog and I didn't
know a toboggan is a hat like the one described
by the victim in this case. So the police come
(21:05):
back with what they claim to have found in your car.
Go ahead, Ronnie, they say, the guy just got your car.
If you won't be back when we take some investigation,
sign your name my head. Got look on the people
for me to sunda. Sign your name my head. You
won't beat him. Okay, I love my jacket. Back my
(21:26):
jacket on my glue. But I don't know who he is.
But I don't know what my jacket blue. So I
sund on the tree. Time to sign us to consent
for So they tricked you in order to make it
seem like you consented, and that way it would have
made the search technically legal. They planted the lime green
(21:50):
hatter Toboggan. Now the police got a live lead to
bogg And saying that this is the hand of the perpetrator.
I'm telling how long and then also where that you
and I ain't never hear that. How long it gets
the head inside out? It's it's red is looking a
hand and read his head in the head. You gotta live.
(22:12):
We read area when I had it, I like to say,
I definitely help. I got black hand even longer, said
you see it's mad as night. Yeah, I know what's
going to be young. The States would never let me
DNA test that head. I want to have a hand
DNA dest They didn't. Never, they didn't never would never
(22:33):
let So we now come to the conclusion that the
police planted this beanie in the car so that they
could have another you know, well really know that there
is no other evidence, so that they could have something
that they could use against him. And I say something
(22:55):
they could use against him because remember all of that
evidence detective Eyes and hard collected from the crime scene. Well,
if the red hairs that they found in the beanie
that are clearly not Ronnie's hair, bother you just wait
because It's about to get way worse again. The crime
scene evidence comes back from the State Peo of Investigation
in Raleigh, and none of it matches Ronnie. But since
(23:17):
the rich white widow of an executive of one of
the biggest employers in town just ideed him as her
rapist rather than just doing the right thing, the just thing,
the evidence never even made it to the prosecutor's office,
let alone the defense. So the police withheld the evidence
from both the defense and the prosecution. Let me just
(23:41):
repeat that the police withheld the evidence not just from
the defense, but from the prosecution, just in case the
prosecution might have decided, hey, wait a minute, we got
the wrong guy. That the police decided to play judge jury,
and I mean they might as well played executioner, because
poor Ronnie has been in prison for four four fucking years.
(24:01):
I mean this is um yeah, I mean, just when
they think I've heard it all, um, and Jamie, you're
living this day in and day out. Now, I mean,
what what can you add to that? Because it gets
worse from there? Right, So, they not only tested this
evidence and it didn't match long. When it didn't match Long,
(24:22):
they made the decision that they wouldn't turn it over
to the defense or the prosecution, which we contending. We
argued this at the May seventh hearing that we had
in this case, that there's a possibility that the prosecutor
could have decided not to go forward with this case
at all had he known that all the forensic test
(24:42):
results pointed away from Ronny and towards another suspect. There
was suspect hair collected brought to Ralie, examined by the
crime lab, determined by the crime lab to be in
the parlanks of the lab report of Negroid or Mongolian origin,
meaning that it came from a person who was either
Asian or black. And we know that that hair that
(25:04):
was collected that was suspect hair didn't match along. If
it didn't match along, then the suspect, the person who
should have been incarcerated for forty four years. There's the
evidence of who that person's identity is. And it's remarkable
in the fact that they believe this would be probative.
They collected because they thought it would be probative. All
(25:26):
indications are they did come from the suspect, but when
it didn't match long they kept it from everybody so
the prosecutor would go forward on the basis of this
completely unheard of identification procedure. And I have to tell you, Jason,
I'm very skeptical whenever any client offers a suggestion that
(25:47):
evidence may be planted. But as you look at this
case and what officers did keeping evidence away from the prosecutor,
it really makes you stopping say, oh, my good, no,
this is completely consistent with the behaviors of the officers
in this case. And then when Long says those are
(26:08):
my gloves, but I've never seen that beanie in my life,
you think, why would he acknowledge owning one but not
the other. And the only explanation is because the officers
in this case set out to ensure Long was convicted.
That included lying, hiding, and with the beanie, manufacturing evidence
(26:29):
to ensure that he would spend the rest of his
life incarcerating convicted for this crime. And for whatever reason,
the state of North Carolina is just willing to ignore
that all together and continue to argue that Long is
guilty of this crime. Crazy right, And there's no evidence
that he ever owned a beanie, there's no photographs of
(26:50):
him at a beanie, there's no, nobody knew about any beanie.
There's also the fact that the victim has fought her
attacker with all of her strength, and she had scratched
attacker so hard that her own nails bent back. Do
you know who, dude, did you take a love of check?
Did you spread? Did you look at it? I'm on
(27:12):
a microscope. Ain't know when will you can add that
stretto media, because yeah, I had my coat look upon
the microscope. But yet still she's saying, that's the coat,
that's the jack, that's the perpetrated world. And when those
sages all meaning when those sects exact, well, there's a
(27:35):
good explanation for there being no scratches on you, your face,
your leather coat. It's painfully simple. It's because you weren't
there that night. But she idd you. They were trying
to make the square fit the circle, and they were
willing to bend the rules pen break the rules. They
planted evidence in your car and tried everything they could
(27:56):
to make sure that they got a conviction in this case.
And people were out in the street protesting as well. Right, So,
but when they arrested you, they offered you a plea deal,
so they can make all of that public outcry just
go away. Now they love me, and when they love me,
or they offered me or seven years three, they offered
(28:16):
me a seven years three told me that I would
be back home in three years. And it made it
explicitly clear that I didn't take the plea if you
were trying for my life. So I mean, I got
people in the street in the stream, I got my family,
I did the street. I got people in the street
deals that's supportful. I knew exactly what they wanted, and
(28:38):
they wanted to me to keep beat out to that
charge so they could put it in on front page.
Oh let us long to do it. A great job.
So always you only got Holland and gether and going
three then going, But I knew I couldn't do that
to called number one, my dad said, and it really
(29:00):
so so you did something, you didn't do it? I
turned down to So I will fix it, topsta. I
wish it the serious way to do. He took me
the same year see stay in North Canomoboisilky. But then
we get to the trial itself, and this is gonna
(29:23):
shock exactly no one. This is an all white jury
conquered North Carolina. The jury was handpicked by the Cabas
County Sheriff. And get this, three of the members of
the jury worked for Cannon Mills. And you'll remember that
the victims husband worked at Cannon Mills as well. So
(29:47):
the jury chairperson at the time created a master list
of jurors. To get us summons for jury duty, you
had to be on that list. And prior to Long's trial,
he brought that list of mass the jurors first to
the sheriff and allowed the sheriff to strike through any
person on that list that the sheriff deemed unfit for
(30:09):
jury duty. He then brought the list to the conquered
police department, and testimony is that the chief of police
and some of his deputies sat there and did the same.
So law enforcement, the very people who investigated this case,
end up lying about this case. About the evidence collected
(30:32):
in this case, played a role in the selection of
the jurors who ultimately found Mr. Long guilty. And in
this trial, every single witness that testified for the State
of North Carolina was white. Every single witness that testified
on behalf of Ronnie Long to demonstrate his innocence, to
(30:54):
prove his alibi, to show that he was nowhere near
the victim's home on the night this attack occurred. Was black,
and by selecting an all white jury in segregated Concord,
North Carolina in nine, ultimately what we had was a
circumstance where the jurors were being asked to decide between
finding their neighbors truthful or finding the people from the
(31:17):
other side of the tracks, the black side of town.
They would have had to find them truthful over the
officers who were their neighbors, who are the people who
lived in their community, their side of town. That's what
it would have taken to find Long not guilty. And
of course we all know how it played out. And
(31:38):
this courtroom, there was a racially divided court with blacks
on one side and whites on the other um And
of course, now the really awful result, but predictable result
of this sham trial was that on October first, nine,
with his whole life in front of him, Ronnie Long
(31:59):
was convicted and sentenced to two life terms. His mother
fainted and a riot nearly ensued. Um Long himself has
called his conviction a quote modernized lynching. Sanctioned by law.
When they found me guilty, they started in the court room.
I started, my molester, she said to ham Me. She
(32:21):
grabbing up a bill, said who will make it up
to fronto Jellis holds it. They're right there. Get that.
I wanted to Ronnie tonight and listen to this. So
after Long's conviction, concord bubbled over with fury. The next day,
(32:42):
hundreds of protesters descended on the city's downtown, staging a
demonstration in front of the courthouse, and for days fifty
or more police officers in full riot gear stationed themselves
at a nearby park, and the police chief warned protesters
violence would be met with force. So I mean nothing
(33:04):
has changed. And the and the bravery, the courage of
these people who protested, putting themselves in grave danger from
the same police force that had just framed their friend,
their neighbor, their fellow human. I had spoke with his
trial counsel, Jim Fuller prior to the May seventh arguments,
(33:25):
and he said, Jamie, I've only been maced one time
in my life, and it was after the verdict when
outbursts occurred in the courtroom and law enforcement decided to
clear out all the supporters of Long, and he said
officers were beating a young man and he tried to
(33:46):
pull the officers away, and they turned and sprayed him
Long's trial attorney in the face with mace. Nothing has changed. Um,
it's really uh, it's really hard to you know. It's
(34:07):
I mean, I'm trying to be optimistic, and you know,
I think we are on the verge of change, and
but it's it's remarkable how much things are as they
were forty four years later. See post conviction lidication history.
(34:30):
Can you walk us through that, Jamie, because it's quite
extraordinary in and of itself. It's been a long process.
So it began in the nineties. After he was convicted.
He filed his first what we call here in North
Carolina motions for Appropriate Relief. They're the post conviction review
petitions that initiate uh post conviction proceedings, and it was
(34:55):
related to the jury he was ruled against or in
the course of those proceedings. That was then appealed in
federal court, arguing the same things, that he didn't commit
the crime and that his trial was unfair, in part
because of the way in which the jury was seated
and he was ruled against in federal court. Over the years,
(35:16):
he tried to get people to help him, and then
in two thousand five, the Innocence Project at the University
of North Carolina took interest in the case, and the
present litigation began. They found an attorney to work with Ronnie.
That attorney did all the work necessary to uncover not
just the lies, but the evidence that was withheld from
(35:39):
Long at the time of his trial, and they went
into state court and held an evidentiary hearing where the
judgtured testimony related to the withholding of this evidence. That's
a real interesting proceeding because the prosecutor, the individual who
tried running along back in nineteen seventy six, took the
stand in testified for Long that he didn't have copies
(36:03):
of these reports. He didn't know that this testing was done.
Had he known that it was done, he would have
required that had been turned over. He also talked about
a sexual assault kit that we haven't even talked about,
that they collected one from the victim and then it
subsequently disappeared. Yeah, so he testified for long, but despite
all that, the judging State court ruled against Long. And
(36:26):
found that he hadn't proven that his rights were violated.
The case then went to the North Carolina Supreme Court.
There are seven justices on the North Carolina Supreme Court.
One set out the decision, and as a result, the
Supreme Court split three three. So TI went to the state.
Ronnie's conviction was upheld and he was still incarcerated. It
(36:51):
then went to an organization in North Carolina called the
North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission. They reviewed the case and
their focused was trying to find the sexual assault kit
that was collected and disappeared. They did not find it,
but they actually discovered that in two thousand and eight.
During the course of those proceedings, officers light again by
(37:12):
saying that they had no physical evidence remaining in the case.
In their custody winning fact, they had all the latent
fingerprints that had been collected from the crime scene. That's
when I got involved and the other attorneys I worked
with at the Wrongful Convictions Clinic, we worked to file
another habeas petition on Ronnie's behalf. It was dismissed because
(37:34):
the district court said that we had failed to bring
the fingerprint related evidence in state court. Prior to filing
our habeas petition. Of course, it would have been brought
in state court had it not been hit during the
time that the state post conviction litigation was ongoing. Now
we appealed that dismissal. The Fourth Circuit reversed and sent
(37:55):
it back to the District Court. Then the District Court
once again unted a dismissal on behalf of the state.
The district Court said that while we had shown that
evidence was withheld, that it was favorable too Long, but
that the state court was reasonable in determining that the
evidence was immaterial to the outcome of his trial. So
(38:20):
it was dismissed again, and we appealed that decision, which
came in July of The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals
heard oral arguments in May of twenty nineteen. A panel
entered a decision two to one saying that Long had
failed to demonstrate the materiality of the evidence of the
(38:43):
state court again was reasonable. That decision came down in
January of We then asked for full court review called
a petition for rehearing embunk and what that triggers is
that full fifteen judge review of the case. The Court
agreed to hear it while sitting in bunk, and that's
the argument we had in May seven. So it's been
(39:06):
it's been a long fight to get to the point
where we know that the judges are at least, you know,
seeing the injustices here that we saw as evidence by
the statement of Judge wind during the course of those
oral arguments, Judge Winn said, quote, prosecutors clearly had evidence
that any defense counsel in the world, not only in
(39:30):
six but in the history of this country would have
wanted or needed, and which should have been supplied, and
yet we did not provide it. What is it about
us that we want to prosecute and keep people in
jail when we know evidence may exist that might lead
to a different outcome. Why is that so offensive to
us now that we want to protect illegal activity from
(39:53):
forty four years ago? End quote? And of course he
was referring to the illegal activity on the part of
law enforcement in this case. So the fifteen judge panel
for the on Bound Carry in the Fourth Circuit heard
(40:13):
Rynie's case in May, and finally in August they voted
nine to six in Ronnie's favor to reverse the dismissal
of his petition. Then the U. S District Court granted
Ronnie's habeas writ setting him free on August after forty
four long years, and the very next day, the Cabras
(40:36):
County District Attorney dismissed the charges. I mean, I will
never forget watching the live stream of your release. It
was really emotional for me, so I can't imagine what
it must have been like for you. I'm sitting on
my bunk side going to meet him as they are
harry up. They brought to them clothed right now. I said, man,
(41:00):
what's this? When we go on the court, he said, nah, Man,
they told me release you just that quick. When that
man told me they're your clue. Right now, the wife
is out there waiting on you. I come listen. If
you look down him and shoot, my shoes ain't tired.
(41:23):
My socks is in my back. I walked out on
my wife birthday. You're talking about me late. Meant to
walk out that gate after for the four years and
turn around and look at it. I told myself when
(41:45):
I looked at it, I would never ever go behind
another ball, another lock and key. They would never ever
lock me up again. Yeah, you're fucking a right about that.
I mean, so what did you do with the rest
of the day. I mean, it was your wife, Ashley's birthday,
as fate would have it, on top of everything else,
So a pretty nice gift for her, was you? I mean,
(42:09):
can you walk us through that magical day? Talk to
the media? Oh, kis mar this is Nehew kiss my wife.
They have been about ninety days since I've seen that
because of the COVID thing. Man, So me and my lawyers,
my wife, a couple of friends with the restaurant State
Bocar own in cheese. Wasn't spin of anything? Man, game
(42:31):
and man always men. I'm sitting around, we're talking, matt
a the doulation being able man to breed. Yeah, breathing
free air after an amount of time that is incomprehensible
to any of us riding. I can't express how happy
(42:53):
I am for you. And not long after your release,
you filed for a pardon of innocence from Governor Cooper,
who agreed to it in December, and in March you
restive state compensation, which amounts to it's actually shockingly low,
but nothing and nothing would ever be enough. It works
out to about seventeen thousand dollars a year, which feels
(43:15):
like a bit of a slap in the face. But
there's really nothing. There's no amount that could replace all
of that lost time. You can't get it back. I
can't go back to May Tim not consid So I mean,
what can they give me? I would, though, like understand why.
I mean, what type of person, what type of mentality?
(43:39):
New heir? We know you send an innocent person to
the gas change. Yeah, there's there's no answer to how
someone could do that and just go home and sleep
at night. And I mean, it doesn't make any sense
to me and never will. Is there anything though that
our audience can do to help you or any of
(43:59):
the things you're trying to achieve? Yeah? Yeah, since I've
been out man struggle, I gotta go fund me paid man,
whatever it is you can help me with. I want
you to know that I appreciate this. Yeah. Well, we'll
definitely have that link to our bio, so please if
you can scroll down and click the link and get involved, listen.
I want to let you know man that I appreciate
(44:20):
having a platform for me to speak farm Jason. I
want to thank you in your network. Man, y'all stay
and saying for what you did for me and my calls. Yeah, Ronnie, look,
I mean when I heard about your situation, all of
us here at ron Conviction Podcast we had to do
whatever we could. You know, there's a lot of people
that helped. I'm honored that we were a part of
helping you to win your freedom, and I hope we
(44:43):
stay friends for a long long time. I know we will.
So now we turn to the closing of our show.
First of all, I just want to thank you, Ronnie
for your courage, your strength, your grace. And now I'm
gonna turn my microphone off, leave my headphones on, kick
back in my chair, close my eyes and just listen
to whatever you want to share with me and our audience. Man,
(45:06):
it's look at what they free to put me in
that sale. And my mind started racing. And the only
thing that I could keep telling myself, well, you got
to be strong, you got to be strong. You got
me strong, got me strong. I took him. Built on
the fact that, man, I knew they had been a deal.
(45:27):
I built on the fact that then it was kind
of Lize in my family name, It was kind of
lies in my lane did a lit on me. When
I say that a lied on me, man, I'm talking
about corruption, corruption, a lie. Only man, don't put me
in the penitentiary. And I knew that I could not
(45:47):
let them get away with this ship. Be strong, Be strong,
be strong, health, faith, health, faith, and no that you
could overcome any obstacle, any barrier, any hurdles in life
(46:10):
if you apply yourself the mind. When they say the
man is the terrible thing in the way, being bullshit,
it is you sit around for fortful years and not
do anything to utilize your mythic capacity. Next day, you know, man,
(46:33):
you understand saying you walk around on psychotic drugs and
everything because you cannot deal with the tension and the stress.
This hell. It's hard, I'm telling you. But your mind
is the key in your heart. It's your determination. Thank
(46:58):
you for listening to Ron Fucking Action with Jason Flom.
Please support your local innocence projects and go to the
link in our bio to see how you can help.
I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff
Clyburne and Kevin Warness. The music on the show, as
always is by three time Oscar nominated composer Jay Ralph.
Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction
(47:20):
and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast. Wrongful Conviction with
Jason Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts
in association with Signal Company Number one
Since our initial release of Ronnie Long story, there have
been some incredible developments, and this is a re release
of that story with new content outlining the great news.
At around on the night of April nineteen seventy six,
the fifty four year old widow of a Cannon Mills
(00:20):
executive was at her home and Conquered, North Carolina when
a man grabbed her from behind. She fought him, scratching
her attacker so hard that her nails bent backwards, but
ultimately he overpowered and raped her. She described her assailant
as a light skinned black man with no mention of
facial hair, wearing a dark leather coat and a beanie hat.
(00:42):
A rape kit was done and the police carefully collected
a mountain of forensic evidence. Meanwhile, across town, nineteen year
old Ronnie Long was at home with his mother, on
the phone with the mother of his own two year
old son till ten PM. A few days later, Ronnie
received a court summons for trespassing in the park after hours.
(01:03):
He was wearing a dark leather coat at the time.
Police would ask the rape victim to be present in
court to see if her attacker was present. On the day,
Ronnie the owner of a dark leather coat, was scheduled
to appear disguised. She sat in the gallery for two
hours in Ronnie's presence, only to identify him as her
attacker when his name was called. The state would present
(01:26):
a case without any of the collected forensic or biological evidence,
solely resting their case upon this extremely unorthodox and totally
unreliable cross racial identification and Ronnie's unscratched leather coat. For that,
Ronnie has been in prison for forty four years. This
(01:49):
is wrongful conviction with Jason Flomer, Welcome back to wrongful Conviction.
Today's case, will Um. It's going to upset you. I'm
(02:12):
gonna tell you right now. This is a grotesque injustice
that was inflicted and is still being inflicted on an
amazing man named Ronnie Long. And we're hoping to hear
from Ronnie during the recording. We'll be calling in from
prison where he has been since nineteen seventies six for
(02:32):
a crime he didn't commit. In this time of COVID,
there's all sorts of complications, so we're going to try
to make it work with us now as well is
Jamie Law. Jamie is an attorney at Duke University's Wrongful
Convictions Clinic. And Jamie, thank you for joining us on
the show. Thank you for having me. I'm want to
(02:55):
do something unusual here. I actually want to start at
the end. We we almost ever do that. But there's
a quote from a judge named James Wynn, who's a
circuit court judge in the fourth District Court. So this
is a serious guy. And Judge Wynn said, and I quote,
(03:16):
prosecutors clearly had evidence that any defense counsel in the world,
not only in but in the history of this country
would have wanted or needed, and which should have been supplied,
and yet we did not provide it. He goes on
to say, what is it about us that we want
(03:40):
to prosecute and keep people in jail when we know
evidence may exist that might lead to a different conclusion.
Why is that so offensive to us now that we
want to protect illegal activity from forty four years ago?
What's the harm of looking at the new evidence? He said?
(04:01):
When did justice leave the process? So we let our
rules blind us to what we all can see. Wow. Well,
during the course of argument, it made us optimistic that
after forty four years, um end maybe near to the
(04:21):
injustice that occurred in Ronnie's case. It's been an incredible
difficult journey through the courts to get his case to
where it was. On May seven of this year, you
said we'll start at the end, and the end at
this point in time was an argument on May seven
in front of the full four Circuit Court of Appeals,
(04:42):
which is fifteen active judges, all have been appointed by
a President judge when was making that quote in response
to arguments from the State of North Carolina that more
or less was asking the court to disregard all the
evidence that is now known about in this case that
was hid from Ronnie at the time of his trial
(05:05):
in nineteen seventy six. And Judge win also discussed sort
of the circumstances of nineteen seventy six and the conditions
of black males, particularly in the South in nineteen seventy six,
and how they were wrongfully convicted in great numbers. So
at the moment Judge Wynn offered his viewpoints during the
(05:26):
course of the stakes argument, we knew that we had
succeeded in conveying to the court the seriousness and the
magnitude of the injustice that occurred in Ronnie's case has promised.
We got a phone call from Ronnie, and I must
warn you that there was a poor connection with the prison.
So ron is a little hard to hear. But what
he has to say needs to be heard, so please
(05:49):
bear with us. You know how to play paid call.
You will not be charged for this call. This call
is from and in mad End album Le Correctional Institution.
This call will be monitored and recorded. To accept this call,
Prince Stive now to decline this call. Hang up. Thank
(06:10):
you for using global tie link. Hi Ronnie, thanks for
calling me. I know we have a limited time, so
let's get right into it now. You grew up in
conquered North Carolina, right, seven brothers and sisters. Can you
tell me a little bit about your life before all
of this horrible stuff happened? Pretty sports? When I was
in how school? Wait, I learned how to leave. That's
(06:35):
care of work I was doing with my dad. I'll
go to work with him sometimes big money with young
still a lot of time with my phone him his model.
Thank you's a little cool in the game. The game
when I never treat it with three Now I read
about this one time before you had your son way
(06:56):
before the incident that lands you in prison, there was
an encounter that you once had with some police officers.
They pulled up on you, harassed you a bit, Hey,
you know what you're doing around here? Boy type of thing,
and you responded, isn't this America? Aren't I free to
walk on this sidewalk? That right? I was coming from
a girl house? How coming from the girl house one night?
(07:17):
The area that was in it was only this area,
so I'll come at all one night, the two white
cups pull behind me, Ada, what are you coming from?
What are you doing in this area here? Pally? Did
you walk side walk here? They took me to me
(07:38):
to be down, I stated, a pay about to round
not also came up tops ago. You can leave. I
just gotta walk up with all all. And that's it
seems to be how he got to be on the
radar of the local authorities. And then on the faithful
(07:58):
day of Sunday six around pm, a wealthy white, fifty
four year old widow of a Cannon Mills executive was
burglarized and raped. Awful, awful crime. And Cannon Mills was
a major employer in the area. And that name is
going to come to play a big role in this.
(08:20):
In this story, the victim said that while she was
preparing food for a beach trip the following day, a
black man snuck into her home and grabbed her from behind.
She said the intruder told her that he only had
fifteen minutes as his friends were waiting for him outside
like a horror movie, and he proceeded to rape her.
She later described her attacker as quote yellow looking and
(08:42):
quote again not blue black, maybe wearing gloves, a beanie hat,
no mention of any facial hair, and a dark leather coat.
She also described the violent struggle where she scratched her
attacker so hard that her fingernails bent backward, which would
definitely have left the mark on that leather coat. The
victim said that whenever she tried to move, he would
(09:02):
slam her head against the ground. Then the phone rang,
startling the attacker, who gathered his things and left through
the front door. The victim then rushed over to her
neighbors naked, where she was able to call the police,
and they arrived around ten pm. The victim has since
passed away um, but that being said, she was rushed
(09:24):
to the hospital for a rape kit and the doctor
performed all the tests and collected all the biological evidence
and everything else. What happened next is that Detective Eisenhower
of the Concord Police Department arrived at the victim's home
around ten thirty, photographed the house, and began collecting evidence,
(09:45):
including latent fingerprints, carpet samples, suspect hair paint samples, as
well as pieces of the victim's clothing and partially burned matches,
and he later brought them to the State Bureau of
Investigation office at Raleigh for examination. He also lifted a
latent shoe print from a column near the porch. Now
(10:05):
this is important. Later has nothing but the shoe print
was ever discussed at trial. And before we go any further,
we need to state clearly that Ronnie had a solid alibi.
And remember the crime took place at Ronnie at around
nine thirty. You were at home with your mother, waiting
on your father to get back with the car so
(10:26):
you could head out to a party in Charlotte. You
were on the phone with the mother of your child.
Your mom hopped on the phone a few times to
say hello to her grandson. Right, yes, on the phone too.
But you can't all understand what you say, but he's
trying to talk and says that he on the phone
to my mom, was on the phone. I'll stay on
the phone. I'm gonna stays on the phone, and I'm
(10:50):
waiting on my dad to come back with your card.
I'm trying to cross one or two party and shout.
So Jamie, can you take us back to how Ronnie
came to be implicated in it and how he could
have possibly been convicted in spite of no evidence at all,
(11:11):
none zero. Yeah. Ronnie, very much like other young black
men in nineteen seventy six and still today, was harassed
by law enforcement officers. That harassment directly led to what
ultimately becomes this forty four year old wrongful conviction. On April,
the victim is assaulted and raped in her home. A
(11:34):
few days after that, Ronnie receives a trespassing charge at
the local park that was adjacent to his home when
he shouldn't have been there, and during that time it
appears that he was observed wearing a black leather coat.
The officer who stopped him recalled that the person who
was described by the victim had been wearing a dark
(11:55):
leather coat on the night of April when she gave
a description to law enforce it, and despite Ronnie not
matching other very prominent features that were included in her description,
the officer decided that perhaps he was the individual who
had assaulted the victim. I mean it was significant the
disparities between her description of her assailant and Ronnie. She
(12:18):
described her assailant as a yellow black male. In the
South at the time, to describe somebody as a yellow
black male meant a light skinned black person of mixed origin.
She never mentioned her assailant having facial hair. Ronnie had
facial hair, and disputed that he had facial hair on
April nineteen seventy six when she was assaulted. So despite
(12:42):
him having a different complexion having facial hair, where she
never described facial hair, he becomes a suspect. Officers then
go to her home and says, we have reason to
believe that the individual who had assaulted you will be
in the courtroom on this date fifteen days later, May
tenth nine, and we'd like you to come down to
(13:05):
the courtroom to see if you can identify the person
who attacked you there. So immediately in her mind she
thinks they've done some investigation and have identified a likely suspect,
but all they had done is made the connect um
to the fact that Ronnie had a black leather coat,
similar to what she described. The real curious thing with
(13:26):
respect to law enforcement asking the victim to go to
the courthouse to try and make identification is they had
a picture of Long that they could have shown her
when they went to her and asked her to come
to the courthouse, And they could have did it in
a fair procedure, or as fair as these identification procedures
can be, with the inclusion of fillers to ensure that
(13:47):
she's selecting him from memory and not because he looks
most like the attacker or because she's being presented a
suspect in a very suggestive way. They elected to forego that.
So she's out to the courthouse dressed in a disguise
because she's fearful that if her attacker was there, he'd
recognize her. She describes during her testimony being terrified. She
(14:12):
six in the courtroom for an hour and a half
in Long's presence and fails to identify him, and only
when his name is called and he walks up to
resolve the trespassing charge, which was dismissed that day. Did
she say he's the one? But it's telling because we
later learned during her testimony at trial that there were
(14:35):
only twelve black males in the courtroom. She quickly eliminated
several of them because they had afros where they were older.
She described one as being old and hunched over, and
she says that he was the only one that looked
remotely similar to her attacker. And identification evidence is already
flawed and highlighting reliable, but here you can just take
(14:57):
her words that she's just picking the person that's most
likely to be her attacker, that's president in the courtroom,
so she can in the experience where she's traumatized and terrified,
so that in essence becomes the only evidence against Long.
And here we are, forty four years later, trying to
undo that identification. And I'm glad you brought that up, Jamie,
(15:18):
because we know the most unreliable eye witness identification as
cross racial. This fits exactly into that category. And then,
of course there's still room for it to get worse.
So Ronnie, take us back to the day that you
were in court for the misdemeanor trespassing charge when you
had no idea. You couldn't have had any idea that
(15:40):
there was a rape victim in the gallery who was
being led to believe that her attacker was in the
courtroom that day. And the craziest thing is that you
two were in each other's presence for nearly two hours
before she idd you right, yeah, they misdemeanor just passing
black go downtown. You know I'm sitting there for the
(16:01):
nun o'clock lived day. When you called my name, I
stood up. We'll walk down front me and my dad.
This is when the polony said, when they say that
she had the same two detectives there was on this
tape that did on this case the whole time they
were sitting in the jury box. She's testified that it
was exact me, twelve black an import room. There's not
(16:26):
an eat people here looking like me. She's supposed to
be looking for a young black head that I saw
this her, but she distinctly stated that she's looked around
and looked around and looked around it to the trash group,
and I didn't see nobody. I want you home king
to think about me, she said. She said in the
court room there for all on her heads, looking around,
(16:47):
and she still didn't see anymore the people want. She
didn't see any one. You'll still said, because of the
scriptures that she gave the polies with the light skinned
black man with no hand on his face. I'm sitting
up in there and you understanding, says god skinned but
hand on my face. So I didn't ask another the
description your stun said that she were looking for. That's
(17:08):
why she couldn't pick me out. When she picked me
out here, say said. When they called my name, run
alone or to the front, run alone? Uh, if you
ain't court I said, yeah, we come down front. And
that's when she said, she's looking down. She didn't recognize me.
She's looking down my name. You go, number one. How
are you gonna sit in the courtroom, you know, says
a whole hour to head they're living. It ain't a
twelve blocks in them people sitting there for a whole
(17:30):
hour and a half. You don't see this young black
man that you're looking for the reading. You don't see
it because she's not Yeah he got he got held
it the court acts. This woman could pot eat the
part that I told you to pick and run alone.
See they could have I don't know. That's in the trash.
(17:54):
They could have. I don't know. The Pacers Foundation is
a proud supporter of this episode of Ronval Conviction with
Jason Flam and of the Last Mile organization, which provides
business and tech training to help incarcerated individuals successfully and
(18:15):
permanently re enter the workforce. The Pacers Foundation is committed
to improving the lives of Hoosiers across Indiana, supporting organizations
that are dedicated primarily to helping young people and students.
For more information on the work of the Pacers Foundation
or the Last Mile program, please visit Pacers Foundation dot
org or the Last Mile dot org. This episode is
(18:40):
underwritten by Paul Weiss, Rifkin, Horton and Garrison, a leading
international law firm. Paul Weiss has long had an unwavering
commitment to providing impactful, pro bono legal assistance to the
most vulnerable members of our society and in support of
the public interest, including extensive work in the criminal justice area.
(19:06):
So the victim makes this shaky identification, tells the detectives,
but you've got no idea that any of this is
going on. You're there for this misdemeanor charge, which gets dismissed,
and then you go home. But that was not the
last you'd see of law enforcement that day. We went
home with the ill wake up a while. When Ronnie
(19:36):
was picked up, he was not told that he was
suspected of this brain Instead, he arrived at the station
at PM, was read his rights, and the police claimed
that they asked permission to search his car, but they hadn't,
and then they testified to finding gloves, matchbooks, and a
(19:56):
beanie in the car. Ronnie maintains at the loves her heads,
but the penie was not. I followed the police downtown.
I used to drive with gloves on, but when I
get out of cars my clothes off. I speak to
my home and my sons. Val I tried to call
a locked though I got on reflect me of the jacket. Yeah,
(20:19):
I'll go there they kill me. I'm on suspecting of
ripon bager kids. I'll take the keys up and they
take the keys up in front out to go with
the same to the kids that there was in the
court room that morning. Yo, man with all going with
my keys, bring my keys that killed. They're just want
to look in your car. You ain't gotten in the
hide now, but yin gave you permission to look at
my car either. So they go down look at my car.
(20:43):
They come back again. They got mom. She took my
other jacket off of menkid, just the mother stuff. I
had my glove. They had lime green to barget that
I had never seen a dead my life. And for
anyone who doesn't know, it's a bog and I didn't
know a toboggan is a hat like the one described
by the victim in this case. So the police come
(21:05):
back with what they claim to have found in your car.
Go ahead, Ronnie, they say, the guy just got your car.
If you won't be back when we take some investigation,
sign your name my head. Got look on the people
for me to sunda. Sign your name my head. You
won't beat him. Okay, I love my jacket. Back my
(21:26):
jacket on my glue. But I don't know who he is.
But I don't know what my jacket blue. So I
sund on the tree. Time to sign us to consent
for So they tricked you in order to make it
seem like you consented, and that way it would have
made the search technically legal. They planted the lime green
(21:50):
hatter Toboggan. Now the police got a live lead to
bogg And saying that this is the hand of the perpetrator.
I'm telling how long and then also where that you
and I ain't never hear that. How long it gets
the head inside out? It's it's red is looking a
hand and read his head in the head. You gotta live.
(22:12):
We read area when I had it, I like to say,
I definitely help. I got black hand even longer, said
you see it's mad as night. Yeah, I know what's
going to be young. The States would never let me
DNA test that head. I want to have a hand
DNA dest They didn't. Never, they didn't never would never
(22:33):
let So we now come to the conclusion that the
police planted this beanie in the car so that they
could have another you know, well really know that there
is no other evidence, so that they could have something
that they could use against him. And I say something
(22:55):
they could use against him because remember all of that
evidence detective Eyes and hard collected from the crime scene. Well,
if the red hairs that they found in the beanie
that are clearly not Ronnie's hair, bother you just wait
because It's about to get way worse again. The crime
scene evidence comes back from the State Peo of Investigation
in Raleigh, and none of it matches Ronnie. But since
(23:17):
the rich white widow of an executive of one of
the biggest employers in town just ideed him as her
rapist rather than just doing the right thing, the just thing,
the evidence never even made it to the prosecutor's office,
let alone the defense. So the police withheld the evidence
from both the defense and the prosecution. Let me just
(23:41):
repeat that the police withheld the evidence not just from
the defense, but from the prosecution, just in case the
prosecution might have decided, hey, wait a minute, we got
the wrong guy. That the police decided to play judge jury,
and I mean they might as well played executioner, because
poor Ronnie has been in prison for four four fucking years.
(24:01):
I mean this is um yeah, I mean, just when
they think I've heard it all, um, and Jamie, you're
living this day in and day out. Now, I mean,
what what can you add to that? Because it gets
worse from there? Right, So, they not only tested this
evidence and it didn't match long. When it didn't match Long,
(24:22):
they made the decision that they wouldn't turn it over
to the defense or the prosecution, which we contending. We
argued this at the May seventh hearing that we had
in this case, that there's a possibility that the prosecutor
could have decided not to go forward with this case
at all had he known that all the forensic test
(24:42):
results pointed away from Ronny and towards another suspect. There
was suspect hair collected brought to Ralie, examined by the
crime lab, determined by the crime lab to be in
the parlanks of the lab report of Negroid or Mongolian origin,
meaning that it came from a person who was either
Asian or black. And we know that that hair that
(25:04):
was collected that was suspect hair didn't match along. If
it didn't match along, then the suspect, the person who
should have been incarcerated for forty four years. There's the
evidence of who that person's identity is. And it's remarkable
in the fact that they believe this would be probative.
They collected because they thought it would be probative. All
(25:26):
indications are they did come from the suspect, but when
it didn't match long they kept it from everybody so
the prosecutor would go forward on the basis of this
completely unheard of identification procedure. And I have to tell you, Jason,
I'm very skeptical whenever any client offers a suggestion that
(25:47):
evidence may be planted. But as you look at this
case and what officers did keeping evidence away from the prosecutor,
it really makes you stopping say, oh, my good, no,
this is completely consistent with the behaviors of the officers
in this case. And then when Long says those are
(26:08):
my gloves, but I've never seen that beanie in my life,
you think, why would he acknowledge owning one but not
the other. And the only explanation is because the officers
in this case set out to ensure Long was convicted.
That included lying, hiding, and with the beanie, manufacturing evidence
(26:29):
to ensure that he would spend the rest of his
life incarcerating convicted for this crime. And for whatever reason,
the state of North Carolina is just willing to ignore
that all together and continue to argue that Long is
guilty of this crime. Crazy right, And there's no evidence
that he ever owned a beanie, there's no photographs of
(26:50):
him at a beanie, there's no, nobody knew about any beanie.
There's also the fact that the victim has fought her
attacker with all of her strength, and she had scratched
attacker so hard that her own nails bent back. Do
you know who, dude, did you take a love of check?
Did you spread? Did you look at it? I'm on
(27:12):
a microscope. Ain't know when will you can add that
stretto media, because yeah, I had my coat look upon
the microscope. But yet still she's saying, that's the coat,
that's the jack, that's the perpetrated world. And when those
sages all meaning when those sects exact, well, there's a
(27:35):
good explanation for there being no scratches on you, your face,
your leather coat. It's painfully simple. It's because you weren't
there that night. But she idd you. They were trying
to make the square fit the circle, and they were
willing to bend the rules pen break the rules. They
planted evidence in your car and tried everything they could
(27:56):
to make sure that they got a conviction in this case.
And people were out in the street protesting as well. Right, So,
but when they arrested you, they offered you a plea deal,
so they can make all of that public outcry just
go away. Now they love me, and when they love me,
or they offered me or seven years three, they offered
(28:16):
me a seven years three told me that I would
be back home in three years. And it made it
explicitly clear that I didn't take the plea if you
were trying for my life. So I mean, I got
people in the street in the stream, I got my family,
I did the street. I got people in the street
deals that's supportful. I knew exactly what they wanted, and
(28:38):
they wanted to me to keep beat out to that
charge so they could put it in on front page.
Oh let us long to do it. A great job.
So always you only got Holland and gether and going
three then going, But I knew I couldn't do that
to called number one, my dad said, and it really
(29:00):
so so you did something, you didn't do it? I
turned down to So I will fix it, topsta. I
wish it the serious way to do. He took me
the same year see stay in North Canomoboisilky. But then
we get to the trial itself, and this is gonna
(29:23):
shock exactly no one. This is an all white jury
conquered North Carolina. The jury was handpicked by the Cabas
County Sheriff. And get this, three of the members of
the jury worked for Cannon Mills. And you'll remember that
the victims husband worked at Cannon Mills as well. So
(29:47):
the jury chairperson at the time created a master list
of jurors. To get us summons for jury duty, you
had to be on that list. And prior to Long's trial,
he brought that list of mass the jurors first to
the sheriff and allowed the sheriff to strike through any
person on that list that the sheriff deemed unfit for
(30:09):
jury duty. He then brought the list to the conquered
police department, and testimony is that the chief of police
and some of his deputies sat there and did the same.
So law enforcement, the very people who investigated this case,
end up lying about this case. About the evidence collected
(30:32):
in this case, played a role in the selection of
the jurors who ultimately found Mr. Long guilty. And in
this trial, every single witness that testified for the State
of North Carolina was white. Every single witness that testified
on behalf of Ronnie Long to demonstrate his innocence, to
(30:54):
prove his alibi, to show that he was nowhere near
the victim's home on the night this attack occurred. Was black,
and by selecting an all white jury in segregated Concord,
North Carolina in nine, ultimately what we had was a
circumstance where the jurors were being asked to decide between
finding their neighbors truthful or finding the people from the
(31:17):
other side of the tracks, the black side of town.
They would have had to find them truthful over the
officers who were their neighbors, who are the people who
lived in their community, their side of town. That's what
it would have taken to find Long not guilty. And
of course we all know how it played out. And
(31:38):
this courtroom, there was a racially divided court with blacks
on one side and whites on the other um And
of course, now the really awful result, but predictable result
of this sham trial was that on October first, nine,
with his whole life in front of him, Ronnie Long
(31:59):
was convicted and sentenced to two life terms. His mother
fainted and a riot nearly ensued. Um Long himself has
called his conviction a quote modernized lynching. Sanctioned by law.
When they found me guilty, they started in the court room.
I started, my molester, she said to ham Me. She
(32:21):
grabbing up a bill, said who will make it up
to fronto Jellis holds it. They're right there. Get that.
I wanted to Ronnie tonight and listen to this. So
after Long's conviction, concord bubbled over with fury. The next day,
(32:42):
hundreds of protesters descended on the city's downtown, staging a
demonstration in front of the courthouse, and for days fifty
or more police officers in full riot gear stationed themselves
at a nearby park, and the police chief warned protesters
violence would be met with force. So I mean nothing
(33:04):
has changed. And the and the bravery, the courage of
these people who protested, putting themselves in grave danger from
the same police force that had just framed their friend,
their neighbor, their fellow human. I had spoke with his
trial counsel, Jim Fuller prior to the May seventh arguments,
(33:25):
and he said, Jamie, I've only been maced one time
in my life, and it was after the verdict when
outbursts occurred in the courtroom and law enforcement decided to
clear out all the supporters of Long, and he said
officers were beating a young man and he tried to
(33:46):
pull the officers away, and they turned and sprayed him
Long's trial attorney in the face with mace. Nothing has changed. Um,
it's really uh, it's really hard to you know. It's
(34:07):
I mean, I'm trying to be optimistic, and you know,
I think we are on the verge of change, and
but it's it's remarkable how much things are as they
were forty four years later. See post conviction lidication history.
(34:30):
Can you walk us through that, Jamie, because it's quite
extraordinary in and of itself. It's been a long process.
So it began in the nineties. After he was convicted.
He filed his first what we call here in North
Carolina motions for Appropriate Relief. They're the post conviction review
petitions that initiate uh post conviction proceedings, and it was
(34:55):
related to the jury he was ruled against or in
the course of those proceedings. That was then appealed in
federal court, arguing the same things, that he didn't commit
the crime and that his trial was unfair, in part
because of the way in which the jury was seated
and he was ruled against in federal court. Over the years,
(35:16):
he tried to get people to help him, and then
in two thousand five, the Innocence Project at the University
of North Carolina took interest in the case, and the
present litigation began. They found an attorney to work with Ronnie.
That attorney did all the work necessary to uncover not
just the lies, but the evidence that was withheld from
(35:39):
Long at the time of his trial, and they went
into state court and held an evidentiary hearing where the
judgtured testimony related to the withholding of this evidence. That's
a real interesting proceeding because the prosecutor, the individual who
tried running along back in nineteen seventy six, took the
stand in testified for Long that he didn't have copies
(36:03):
of these reports. He didn't know that this testing was done.
Had he known that it was done, he would have
required that had been turned over. He also talked about
a sexual assault kit that we haven't even talked about,
that they collected one from the victim and then it
subsequently disappeared. Yeah, so he testified for long, but despite
all that, the judging State court ruled against Long. And
(36:26):
found that he hadn't proven that his rights were violated.
The case then went to the North Carolina Supreme Court.
There are seven justices on the North Carolina Supreme Court.
One set out the decision, and as a result, the
Supreme Court split three three. So TI went to the state.
Ronnie's conviction was upheld and he was still incarcerated. It
(36:51):
then went to an organization in North Carolina called the
North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission. They reviewed the case and
their focused was trying to find the sexual assault kit
that was collected and disappeared. They did not find it,
but they actually discovered that in two thousand and eight.
During the course of those proceedings, officers light again by
(37:12):
saying that they had no physical evidence remaining in the case.
In their custody winning fact, they had all the latent
fingerprints that had been collected from the crime scene. That's
when I got involved and the other attorneys I worked
with at the Wrongful Convictions Clinic, we worked to file
another habeas petition on Ronnie's behalf. It was dismissed because
(37:34):
the district court said that we had failed to bring
the fingerprint related evidence in state court. Prior to filing
our habeas petition. Of course, it would have been brought
in state court had it not been hit during the
time that the state post conviction litigation was ongoing. Now
we appealed that dismissal. The Fourth Circuit reversed and sent
(37:55):
it back to the District Court. Then the District Court
once again unted a dismissal on behalf of the state.
The district Court said that while we had shown that
evidence was withheld, that it was favorable too Long, but
that the state court was reasonable in determining that the
evidence was immaterial to the outcome of his trial. So
(38:20):
it was dismissed again, and we appealed that decision, which
came in July of The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals
heard oral arguments in May of twenty nineteen. A panel
entered a decision two to one saying that Long had
failed to demonstrate the materiality of the evidence of the
(38:43):
state court again was reasonable. That decision came down in
January of We then asked for full court review called
a petition for rehearing embunk and what that triggers is
that full fifteen judge review of the case. The Court
agreed to hear it while sitting in bunk, and that's
the argument we had in May seven. So it's been
(39:06):
it's been a long fight to get to the point
where we know that the judges are at least, you know,
seeing the injustices here that we saw as evidence by
the statement of Judge wind during the course of those
oral arguments, Judge Winn said, quote, prosecutors clearly had evidence
that any defense counsel in the world, not only in
(39:30):
six but in the history of this country would have
wanted or needed, and which should have been supplied, and
yet we did not provide it. What is it about
us that we want to prosecute and keep people in
jail when we know evidence may exist that might lead
to a different outcome. Why is that so offensive to
us now that we want to protect illegal activity from
(39:53):
forty four years ago? End quote? And of course he
was referring to the illegal activity on the part of
law enforcement in this case. So the fifteen judge panel
for the on Bound Carry in the Fourth Circuit heard
(40:13):
Rynie's case in May, and finally in August they voted
nine to six in Ronnie's favor to reverse the dismissal
of his petition. Then the U. S District Court granted
Ronnie's habeas writ setting him free on August after forty
four long years, and the very next day, the Cabras
(40:36):
County District Attorney dismissed the charges. I mean, I will
never forget watching the live stream of your release. It
was really emotional for me, so I can't imagine what
it must have been like for you. I'm sitting on
my bunk side going to meet him as they are
harry up. They brought to them clothed right now. I said, man,
(41:00):
what's this? When we go on the court, he said, nah, Man,
they told me release you just that quick. When that
man told me they're your clue. Right now, the wife
is out there waiting on you. I come listen. If
you look down him and shoot, my shoes ain't tired.
(41:23):
My socks is in my back. I walked out on
my wife birthday. You're talking about me late. Meant to
walk out that gate after for the four years and
turn around and look at it. I told myself when
(41:45):
I looked at it, I would never ever go behind
another ball, another lock and key. They would never ever
lock me up again. Yeah, you're fucking a right about that.
I mean, so what did you do with the rest
of the day. I mean, it was your wife, Ashley's birthday,
as fate would have it, on top of everything else,
So a pretty nice gift for her, was you? I mean,
(42:09):
can you walk us through that magical day? Talk to
the media? Oh, kis mar this is Nehew kiss my wife.
They have been about ninety days since I've seen that
because of the COVID thing. Man, So me and my lawyers,
my wife, a couple of friends with the restaurant State
Bocar own in cheese. Wasn't spin of anything? Man, game
(42:31):
and man always men. I'm sitting around, we're talking, matt
a the doulation being able man to breed. Yeah, breathing
free air after an amount of time that is incomprehensible
to any of us riding. I can't express how happy
(42:53):
I am for you. And not long after your release,
you filed for a pardon of innocence from Governor Cooper,
who agreed to it in December, and in March you
restive state compensation, which amounts to it's actually shockingly low,
but nothing and nothing would ever be enough. It works
out to about seventeen thousand dollars a year, which feels
(43:15):
like a bit of a slap in the face. But
there's really nothing. There's no amount that could replace all
of that lost time. You can't get it back. I
can't go back to May Tim not consid So I mean,
what can they give me? I would, though, like understand why.
I mean, what type of person, what type of mentality?
(43:39):
New heir? We know you send an innocent person to
the gas change. Yeah, there's there's no answer to how
someone could do that and just go home and sleep
at night. And I mean, it doesn't make any sense
to me and never will. Is there anything though that
our audience can do to help you or any of
(43:59):
the things you're trying to achieve? Yeah? Yeah, since I've
been out man struggle, I gotta go fund me paid man,
whatever it is you can help me with. I want
you to know that I appreciate this. Yeah. Well, we'll
definitely have that link to our bio, so please if
you can scroll down and click the link and get involved, listen.
I want to let you know man that I appreciate
(44:20):
having a platform for me to speak farm Jason. I
want to thank you in your network. Man, y'all stay
and saying for what you did for me and my calls. Yeah, Ronnie, look,
I mean when I heard about your situation, all of
us here at ron Conviction Podcast we had to do
whatever we could. You know, there's a lot of people
that helped. I'm honored that we were a part of
helping you to win your freedom, and I hope we
(44:43):
stay friends for a long long time. I know we will.
So now we turn to the closing of our show.
First of all, I just want to thank you, Ronnie
for your courage, your strength, your grace. And now I'm
gonna turn my microphone off, leave my headphones on, kick
back in my chair, close my eyes and just listen
to whatever you want to share with me and our audience. Man,
(45:06):
it's look at what they free to put me in
that sale. And my mind started racing. And the only
thing that I could keep telling myself, well, you got
to be strong, you got to be strong. You got
me strong, got me strong. I took him. Built on
the fact that, man, I knew they had been a deal.
(45:27):
I built on the fact that then it was kind
of Lize in my family name, It was kind of
lies in my lane did a lit on me. When
I say that a lied on me, man, I'm talking
about corruption, corruption, a lie. Only man, don't put me
in the penitentiary. And I knew that I could not
(45:47):
let them get away with this ship. Be strong, Be strong,
be strong, health, faith, health, faith, and no that you
could overcome any obstacle, any barrier, any hurdles in life
(46:10):
if you apply yourself the mind. When they say the
man is the terrible thing in the way, being bullshit,
it is you sit around for fortful years and not
do anything to utilize your mythic capacity. Next day, you know, man,
(46:33):
you understand saying you walk around on psychotic drugs and
everything because you cannot deal with the tension and the stress.
This hell. It's hard, I'm telling you. But your mind
is the key in your heart. It's your determination. Thank
(46:58):
you for listening to Ron Fucking Action with Jason Flom.
Please support your local innocence projects and go to the
link in our bio to see how you can help.
I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff
Clyburne and Kevin Warness. The music on the show, as
always is by three time Oscar nominated composer Jay Ralph.
Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction
(47:20):
and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast. Wrongful Conviction with
Jason Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts
in association with Signal Company Number one
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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