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March 2, 2022 37 mins

When 43 year old bowling alley manager Ken Wyniemko ejected an off duty cop from his establishment for drunk and disorderly conduct, he didn't think it would lead to a wrongful conviction. On April 30th, 1994, a woman was blindfolded and raped by a masked man in her home in Clinton Township, Michigan. The composite sketch was deemed only 60% accurate, but nonetheless, was made available to the media. When Ken's disgruntled ex girlfriend reported that the sketch resembled him, investigators used this opportunity to exact revenge for the bowling alley manager's slight against their brother in blue. They manipulated the line up to produce an identification from the victim who had never clearly seen her attacker's face. With the help of incentivized jailhouse snitch testimony, the jury ignored the biological evidence that excluded Ken, sending him to serve 40-60 years. DNA evidence eventually led to his exoneration in 2003, and now, Ken devotes his time to lobbying for criminal justice reform legislation - some of which led to finding the actual rapist in his case.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
On April thirtieth, a man in a nylon stocking mass
broke into a year old woman's home in Michigan while
she slept. He blindfolded and raped her over the course
of several hours before leaving. Since the victim was blindfold
and it had only caught a few glimpses of her attacker,
the composite sketch she created with investigators was deemed only
six accurate when the sketch hit the media. A bowling

(00:26):
alley manager named Kenwynebko was named by a disgruntled X
as a potential culprit. Ken had recently ejected an off
duty cop from his bowling alley for being drunken disorderly,
which was not taken kindly by the officers friends on
the force. With this grudge looming, and despite Ken not
matching the physical description, detectives acted on this dubious tip

(00:47):
and manipulated a lineup to produce his identification. DNA testing
was available, but not done yet. Even the syrology testing
of the biological evidence from the attack was again not
a match for Kent. However, while Canna awaited trial in jail,
the assistant prosecutor offered his cell made a deal to
join the lead detective in giving false testimony that Ken

(01:09):
had confessed to the rape. His hastily appointed defense attorney
did not have time to prepare. Between the false testimony,
the shaky composite sketch, and the bogus lineup, the jury
ignored the exculpatory prology and sent Kennaway to prison for
forty to sixty years. With the help of the Coolie
Innocence Project in Michigan, Ken was finally able to obtain

(01:30):
the biological evidence, including an unopened rape kit, to find
out who had really committed this horrific crime nearly a
decade prior. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction.

(01:55):
Today's story is one that I've heard whispered about ever
since it happened, in hushed tones in the innocence community,
where people talk about how this was one of the
worst examples of our criminal legal system. And also people
have talked to me for a long time about this
man and the incredible work that he's done evil from

(02:18):
inside the walls of prison. You got to hear this
story to believe it. And I'm talking about the man
who's on the air with us right now, can we Namco.
Thank you for being here. Welcome to ronfal Conviction Jason.
It is my pleasure. Thank you for inviting us, and
with him is an awesome character in her own right.
Gail Palmakoff, attorney with the Cool the Innocence Project, baged

(02:41):
out of Michigan where this horrible crime happened. Gail, first
of all, thank you for all the incredible work you're doing,
and welcome to the show. I'm so glad to have
you here. Oh, thank you for having me. So this
case goes all the way back to the early mid nineties.
But Kenna, what was your life like before you got
wrapped up in this well. I started with GM right

(03:04):
after high school. I was working with my two brothers
and my dad. We're all scaled trade workers. I was
married from nineteen seventy to nineteen eighty and my father
in law owned a nightclub and a bowling center in Detroit.
It's called Falcon Lanes. So I was working for GM
during the day and I was working at the bowling
yellow and nightclub at night. Then I went out on

(03:25):
my own and I was just managing bowling centers and
I was managing at the center at the time at
Kingswood Lanes in McComb County, Michigan, and that's how this
whole incident started. So it sounds like you've got a
good thing going there, managing this bowling alley, a good
peaceful life. But here's where the seed of this story
is planted with you and the police, right, so please

(03:47):
take us through this. It was on our Friday night.
We had a family bowling night. Okay, the parents are
bringing their kids in. We get three pizza everyone, and
the place was jam So I was sitting in my office.
One of my waitresses, Kelly, k into my office and
she says, Kenny, there's a guy bowling on Lane twelve.
She thought he was drunk, and she said that she
noticed that the guy had two bowling bags. One he

(04:09):
had two bowling balls in and the other bag he
had cans of Miller light. So I came out of
my office and there was a father, mother, and two
kids on Lane eleven and this guy was getting an
argument with him. So I walked down there and I said,
excuse me, do these two bags belonged to you? He says,
who the hell are you? I said, my name is Kenny.
On the manager's place and said what's your name? And

(04:31):
he said my name is John. So I said, well John,
I said, do you mind if I take a look
into the second bag over here? He said why, what's
the problem. I said, that's my right, I'm doing my job.
Opened up the second bag. He had leving cans of
Miller Light in that bag. So I said, John, do
yourself a favor. I said, take your bulls. Was back
to the counter, get your refund, and you're all done

(04:51):
bullings for tonight. You brought this beer into my establishment,
and that's illegal. He said, I bought that beer here.
I said, John, I know you're lying to me because
we don't sell canned beer. All the beer that we
sell are in bottles. And I grabbed the bag with
the beer in it. He said, where you going? That's
you know, that's mine. I said, will you come back
and talk to me tomorrow? John, The place is packed.
I don't want to argue with you. So I got
the bag, took in the office with me, putting on

(05:13):
our floor. About ten minutes later, this guy comes in
the office. He said, what do you say your name was?
I said, my name is Ken. He's a well can
I just want you to know that I'm not leaving
here until I get my beer back. And his voice
started getting louder and louder. I said, look, John, I
told you I'm not going to argue with you tonight.
One way or another. You're leaving this building. If you
don't want to leave on your own, I'll throw you out.

(05:34):
And he said, you can't throw me out of here.
And he reached in his pocket and he pulled out
a puttin township police bad And I said, you should
know better that you cannot bring alcohol into establishment that
has a looker laces. He said, I'm not leaving until
I get dead beer. So I got up, got him
in a head lock, and he's still holding onto this
bag with his bowling balls in it, and I started
dragging him towards the front door to double glass doors

(05:55):
and investibule leading out in the parking lot. And as
I'm dragging him up, he takes the bag with a
bowling balls and he shatters the glass doors. Dragged him
outside to him on the park a lot. I told him,
I'll see you later. So on the way back, I
told one of my porters to get a broom and
sweep up the glass. I go back in the office.
About twenty minutes after that, carry the counterman comes in.
He says, Kenny, there's two uniform cops out here when

(06:17):
I talk to you. So they come in and asked me,
I heard you had a problem over here about a
half hour ago. So I told him the same thing
I just told you. I tried to be as nice
as I could to him, but he didn't want to listen,
and I repeated to them the same thing I told John.
If he was a cop, you know better than to
bring alcohol into establishment. They has a looker ways. His
partner says, is your looker license up to date? I said, yes,

(06:38):
it is. I said it's posted on the wall behind
the bar, where it's supposed to be by law. And
he said, well, do you matter if I take a
look at it. I said no, as a matter of fact,
I'll take a walk with you. So we walked inside
the bar. I pulled the license off the wall and
I showed it to him. In meantime, his partners started
walking around the whole bar, up and down the lanes,
looking around, and he finally came back as everything okay, officer,

(06:59):
and he said, well, Kenny to be honest with you
and we'll come back to check. Gun. You have five
or six months do on a road, make sure you're okay, said,
Is that some kind of a threat his partnership. We
don't make threats. We keep promises. And he walked out
the door. So that's how this whole thing began. I believe. Wow,
that's such a sinister scenario. Just I mean, I don't

(07:20):
think anybody who wanted to be in your shoes at
that point. And Gail, I want to turn to you now,
Can you take us back to the crime itself and
how they managed to get anyone in their right mind
to believe that Ken was involved. The basic facts are
is that on April thirtie, the woman the complainant, had
been at a party earlier in the day. She came home,

(07:41):
she went to bed about two am. Later in the morning,
closer to five, she wakes up and there's a masked
man in her room. He had a nylon over his head.
He went and got underwear out of her dower, put
panties over her head, and then over the course of
the next couple of hours, engaged in multi full acts
of sexual penetration. She never really saw the perpetrator. She

(08:06):
said that when he took his mask off, she couldn't
see him, and that when he lifted the mask at all,
she only got glimpses of him. He left, he had
secured her hands to the bed. She was able to
get herself extricated. She went to the neighbors sought help.
She was taken to the hospital. A rape kip was performed.
The police got involved in an investigation, and on the

(08:29):
day that this occurred, they took her statements, and she
told the officers that she really did not get a
good look at this perpetrator. He was, you know, masked.
She was masked. They said, can you help with a composite.
She didn't think that she would be very helpful because
she didn't see the man. She said, at one point,
the guy's mask had risen above his chin. She said

(08:52):
he had a deep cleft chin. She could tell he
was a smoker. At Tangy had thought she heard and inhaler,
and she estimated that he was about six ft one
six ft two, about two pounds. I was five ft
eleven eighty five pounds. Never had a cleft shin in
my life, didn't smoke back then, okay, and so I

(09:13):
smoke until I got to Jackson prison. Now those are
the facts. So she gave a composite and on the
composite it's accurate. She was not able to identify critical features.
He was masked with a nylon. She was blindfolded with
panties that were later secured with the necktie. But the
composite was out in the media and one of Ken's
ex girlfriend, very disgruntled ex girlfriend, thought the composite looked

(09:37):
like Ken contacted the Clinton Township Police Department and that's
how Ken gets involved is through the composite. This is
July fourteen. I mean home in bed, sleeping by eight
thirty in the morning and there's a knock on my
front door. So I got up to answer the door
and there's a young lady sitting in my porch and
I said, can I help you? And she said as
your name Kenny as yes it is. What can I

(09:58):
do for you? Well? She moved on a side four
playing closed. Officers rushed me at tackled me to throw
me down on the floor of my living room, handcuffed
me behind my back, and I'm rolling around. What the
hell's going up? This woman was a detective and she
told me that they have a warrant for my arrest.
I'm gonna be taken down to the McComb County Jail
be placed in the lineup because I'm suspected of being

(10:19):
the person that committed to be I'm Robbie in a
rape back in April. And I said, what the hell
are you talking about? So they took me down to
the McComb County Jail and Detective Oastin was the lead
detective at the time. He told me I was we
placed in a lineup because they had received an anonymous
phone call that ken Wan m go the manager at
kings Or Lanes, looks like a deposit that was issued

(10:41):
in the paper about this woman who was robbed in
a rape. So at that point the detectives bring kennon,
they put them in a lineup. They bring in the
complaining in the rape case, and she's in the lineup room.
She looks at the six folks, is unable to identify
Ken goes out, speaks with members of the prose shooter's office,
comes back in the people in the lineup rust to say,

(11:05):
I don't remember what the words are. Can you probably do.
What time does your husband come home? Right, there are
six of us, and they're all five guys had mustaches.
I've ever had a mustache in my life. And when
I first put us in the lineup together, I was
in number six position. They took her out to talk
to the prosecutor and her assistant and Detective Osten. During

(11:26):
that time, officer brought in a riser, like a three
inch high riser out of wood. They brought it in,
They put it under the number two spot. They moved
the guy that was a number two spots the number
six spot. They moved me and made me stand in
the rising in number two positions. And after that she says,
Ken is the one, and that's how Ken gets roped
into this whole thing. This episode is under by A

(12:00):
i G, a leading global insurance company. A i G
is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making a
positive difference in the lives of its employees and in
the communities where we work and live. In light of
the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and in
recognition of a g s commitment to criminal and social
justice reform, the A i G pro Bono Program provides

(12:21):
free legal services and other support to underrepresented communities and individuals.
The complainant reported in her written statements that the perpetrator
ejaculated three times, one of which was oral, and with

(12:42):
respect to the oral ejaculation, he wiped her mouth out
with a pair of panties and they were left at
the scene. The point is is that there was an
enormous amount of biological evidence, including a rape kit, that
was collected after this crime at the hospital that day.
Some of it was asked that some of wasn't, but
the biological evidence that was tested was tested using techniques

(13:05):
that were not the best techniques available prology testing I'm
talking about. They didn't use DNA, and furthermore, the testing
that was done didn't help their case at all because
it didn't match ken. Yeah. In fact, there was nothing
at all that tied can to this rape except that composite,
this composite sketch, which even the victim said was only

(13:25):
six accurate, and no one could have created an accurate
sketch from this for the reason we've already talked about.
And of course this bogus lineup which they tried to
use every dirty trick in the book in order to
get hurt to identify you in the lineup. Well, they
released me. After the lineup was done, I'd call my
dad to come and pick me up, you know, from
the jail. My dad was seventy six years old. We

(13:47):
went back to my house and pulling the driveway in,
I could see all the lights around. Their doors were open,
and I'm thinking, what the health is going on? So
walk inside the house. It looked like our tornado had
grown to my house. Everything was tossed and turned. The
cops were so arrogant. They went inside my refrigerator. I
had jars of pickles and peppers, and they broke the
jars on my kitchen floor. My dad started crying. I

(14:09):
guess it. Dads. Don't worry. Go home and try to
get some sleep. I'll clean up. So I stayed up
most of like trying to put everything back together. Got
up next morning and I went to Myers to buy
some of the stuff that the cops had broken. Come back,
I'll pulling the driveway and Osten and his partner brought
my elect They pulled in behind my rear bumper like
to try to block me off. So I get out
of the car and I'm holding one bag the grossers

(14:31):
in my left hand, and Osten says, one, m put
that bag in the ground, put your hands on top
of the car. So I put the bag in a driveway,
put my hand on top of the car, and handcuffed
me behind my back. And I said, you want to
tell me what's going on now? He'said, well, I'm under
arrest for this bee arm Robbie and the rape because
I was identified the day before in that lineup. And
I said, looking, I'm not the smartest guy in the world,

(14:53):
but I'm not stupid. If I was identified in that lineup,
you guys would never let me go. You to arrest
of me running a spot. And I'll never forget this
line as long as I lived. Wilson said, you know
what one I'm going by the time I get done
fucking with you. Is it across you a million dollars
to get your ass out of prison? Quote unquote It's
really sick thing. I mean, who are you supposed to

(15:14):
call when the cops are the criminals? So here you are.
You've never been in trouble a day in your life.
Now you're sent into a jail. What was that experience? Like?
That was hell step below prison, that's for sure. But
I wouldn't wish that on anyone. You know. I had
a court apponent attorney. His name is Lawrence Peppler. Guy
wouldn't take my phone calls. So I filed a grievance

(15:37):
against him to try to get another attorney. We have
a hearing on a Friday afternoon in front of Judge Schwartz,
and Judge Schwartz said that he's not in the habit
of changing attorneys. And he told me that he's going
to give me a new Attorney's name is Albert Markowski,
and if I don't like him, I can defend myself.
And I told him I don't know the first thing

(15:58):
about the law. But he says, come Monday morning, we're
picking a jury. So what that means is this, Mr
Marokowski is going to have Saturday and Sunday to prepare
for a case. Fifteen Council of CSC. What kind of
be what kind of I'm robbery? Gal? You got away
in on this? I mean they did judge really appointed
attorney on Friday who starts the case on Monday, and

(16:20):
explain CSC and these initials as well. If you could
CSC one case, which is a criminal sexual assault case
first degree, involves acts of penetration. It's a life offense.
Anyone would need a lot of time to prepare for that,
particularly in this case because the rape itself was factually complex,
and then the process and procedure afterwards required a lot

(16:43):
of analysis. So two days a week doesn't matter, is
just totally insufficient. So you go to trial. If you
can even call it that, it's a show trial in effect, right,
I mean, they gave you no hope. In hell. I
don't know what was on the judge's mind, but one
would have hoped that the judge would have been an

(17:05):
arbiter in this and would have actually wanted to see
justice done, even though it seems like nobody else on
that side did or had any interest in it. But nonetheless,
you're now screwed. You've got this attorney who you've just met,
who hasn't had any time to do any investigation or
preparation of any kind, and now you go to trial.
So how long did the trial take? And did anyone

(17:28):
do anything to help you during this process? No? Mr Brokowski,
I think I talked to him twice the picture jury
on Monday, afternoon. The trial lasted the rest of the week.
The following a week, the jury came back on Wednesday.
So despite the victim's uncertainty regarding the composite sketch and

(17:49):
her glimpses of the attacker, the composite sketch was admitted
into evidence and the prosecution's case was centered on this
composite sketch because remember, Ken wasn't air right, so there
was no forensic evidence connecting into the crime, and of
course the strology testing didn't connect into it either, So

(18:09):
the composite sketch, they realized, wasn't going to be enough
on its own, which brings us to this character named
Glenn McCormick. Gail, please tell us who this guy was
and the role that he played. Glenn McCormick shared a
cell with Ken for a little while when he was
in the McComb County jail. He was released, he was
contacted by Detective Ostin. He was asked to come to

(18:31):
the Clinton Township Police Department and he was told by
Linda Davis, the prosecutor, that he was in a world
of hurt. He was charged with arm robbery obstructing a
police officer. He was a fourth habitual, so he had
potentially a life sentence, and that if he would testify
against Ken, you know, something could be worked out with
respect to his charges. And the deal was his charges

(18:56):
would be changed to attempt on armed robbery with a
recommendation for a year in the county jail, which is
a whole lot different than a potential life offense. He
was told by Lynda Davis and Osten that if he
didn't testify to what they had in every point, Lynda
Davis guaranteed him that he would not see the later date.
McCormick was in an interview room this discussion occurred, the

(19:20):
police report was placed in front of him. Lynda Davis
and Detective Osten left the room. McCormick had an opportunity
to read the police report and that's how he learned
the facts of Ken's case. They came back into the
room and they did a recording of him. He testified
at trial that Ken said that yeah, I did it.

(19:40):
They ain't got shipped on me. I hit all the
evidence and so on. McCormick lied under oath during the trial.
It was pretty egregious. So everybody knows you can't bribe
a witness. Right, you get five years and more for
bribing a witness. But the government comes along and says
to this guy, he's very simple. You can choose door one,
door number two. Door number one you spend a rest
of your life in prison, or door number two, which

(20:03):
you might find more pleasurable. You can simply lie and
exactly the ways that we tell you to, and we'll
leave you this document as we just sort of slink
out of the room. So you can learn about this
case that you know absolutely nothing about, and then you
can lie on the stand and then only spend about
a year in county jail. I mean, you make the decision.

(20:25):
And this guy, who was apparently not a terrific guy
to start with, was a very easy decision for him
to make. And so he got up on the stand
and lie under oath. Another crime. So the crimes just
keep piling up, but none of them are yours. It's amazing.
So the jury goes out, how long did they deliberate for?
They got the case on Friday afternoon, came back Wednesday,

(20:47):
November nine, the guilty and all counts. So that moment
when they came back and declared you guilty and ultimately
sends you to forty to sixty years in prison, so
a life sentence because you weren't a young man. I
was forty three, right, a living death sentence. I mean,
could you take us back to that probably the worst
moment of your life. I can. I can remember my

(21:08):
dad was sitting right behind me when it purtic was
announced and I could hear my dad said no, no.
He started crying and I tried to get up to
give him a hug, and the court offices and standing
right behind me, he pushed me back down in the chair.
I'll never forget that day as long as I lift
that moment. That's one of the things that motivates me
to do what I've been doing for the last eighteen years,

(21:29):
and I will never stop. When they put me in
my first cell, Jason, I was scared to that. I
was shaking, I was crying, and I sat down my bucket.
I started to tear the bed sheets into strips. I

(21:51):
was gonna hang myself. That's how desponded I felt. I
remember getting down on my knees and praying, Lord Lord,
please sum away, please told me what to do, and
as God is my witness, I swear this is the truth.
I could feel like a hand touched my right shoulder
and I heard her voice say, Kenny, You're going to
be just fine. And when I heard those words, something

(22:14):
came over me. I stood up and I just made
my mind out. I'm gonna do whatever I have to
do with God's help to prove my innocence. Well, you
had God and Gail right so, and you needed both
not only God and Gail. I had Cat a sweatload
from the Innocence Project, Kim Shine, who is a reporter
from the Detroit News. You know I've been blessed with
three angels and Gail. We know it's so easy to

(22:38):
get wrong if we convicted, and the barriers to getting
an innocent person out are incredibly high. How did you
get involved in the case? How did you win it
against all these obstacles? And this was the first exoneration
for the Coolie Center at the Michigan Industence Project, right
it was? What happened was is I had gone to

(22:59):
a Criminal Defense Attorney of Michigan conference to hear Barry
Shuck speak and the people from the Innocence Project were there.
So I went out, I signed up and I said,
you know, you get a case in Macomb County, colmat
be happy to do it, and they did so. In
April or May of two thousand two, I went to
the Cooley Law School, I picked up the file. I

(23:20):
read it over the summer. I met Ken and decided
to file the motion in November, and when I was
putting the motion together, became pretty glaring that something terribly
wrong had happened. The identification was so bad that it's
hard to imagine that it formed the basis for Ken's

(23:42):
involvement and ultimate conviction because there wasn't anything else to
work with. Frankly, and at the time of trial, what
happens is is that the complainant points to Ken and says,
I'm a hundred percent sure he's the perpetrator. So you
have that, you have the snitch witness, and you know,
it's pretty compelling testimony. So I filed the motion to

(24:04):
get the biological evidence tested. The court granted it. The
detective Osten was vehemently opposed to the testing and said
so on the record. Judge Servito said he was going
to have the evidence tested. And I went to the
Clinton Chown Chip Police Department with the assistant prosecutor and
Detective Osten was there. We went through all the biological evidence.

(24:26):
It was an enormous amount. The rape kit had never
been opened, and so we did a chain of evidence
on all that sent up to the Michigan State Police
Crime Lab and then we waited for the results. And
then on June eleven, I got a phone call from
the county prosecutor that the DNA results are coming in
and they looked favorable to Ken. And when they came in,
indeed they were A cigarette butt at the scene showed

(24:50):
salava from an unknown donor, A fingernail scraping from the
complainant showed an unknown donor. And then there was semen
extracted from a pantyhose that was used to secure her
that also showed semen from an unknown donor. So there
were three pieces of evidence that corroborated that Ken was

(25:10):
factually not the perpetrator and innocent. Yeah, when you got
this evidence, you must have been jumping for joy. I
was how did you get the message to Ken and
what was that moment like for both of you? Did
you call him, did you go visit him? You know,
it happened like late in afternoon when I got the call,
and I couldn't even believe it. I was so excited,

(25:33):
so I got in my car to drive down to
the prison. You know, I wanted him to hear it
directly from me. And as I was driving to the prison,
I started to get so sad because almost ten years
of his life was gone. His dad had died, his
son had grown up. You know, families are blown apart
by these things. It's hard to repair all the things
that happened and all this time. So even those thoughts

(25:55):
are going through my mind. I finally get through security
at the prison and I meet Kennon. I think my
face was such that Ken was afraid I was bringing
bad news instead of good news. You know, Jason, I
can remember that moment like it was yesterday. I was
in my bunk and the guards came to get me,
and he said, you have to get up front right away.
Your attorney is waiting for you upfront. And I thinking
my dad had passed away and my mom wasn't doing

(26:17):
very well herself. So when the guards telling me I
have to get up their A S A P. I'm thinking, cheese,
don't tell me that my mom passed away, Because I
had a rough time dealing losing my dad and not
being allowed to go through the funeral. And I remember
when Gail walked in and she had this look on
her face. At Gale, what's the matter And she said, Kenny,
I don't know how to tell you this. I said, Gail,

(26:39):
please don't tell me. Something happened to my mother. And
Gail said, Kenny, I just talked to your mom about
hour ago and she's really happy. I said, then, what's
going on? Why are you here? And said that she
got word from the prosecutor's office. I am an innocent man,
and Carl My Lincoln wants me released. And I don't
know if you remember this. Gale. I got up and
I picked you up by your waist and I'm swinging

(27:00):
her around. Jason. I said, you know what happened. You
know what happened, and she said, can if you put
my heads down, I'll tell you what happened and the
rest is history. I well, I'll tell you what. That's
one moment I'll never forget as long as I've lived.
Never And then he was released on June three. So
after you were released, Glenn McCormick recanted his testimony and

(27:20):
In a sworn affid David told the story of his
coercion by Linda Davis and Detective Oasten and later do
you file the federal civil rights lawsuit that was eventually
settled for three point seven million. Now we've got to
talk about the work that you're doing. I think it's
one of the reasons why people in the innocence community
can have so much respect for you, and why I've

(27:41):
really been looking forward to this podcast, not because of
You're amazing sense of humor, but more because what's that
great saying? This applies right to you? You ready, the
saying it's from somebody they Stephanie Sparkles. She said, I
love when people that have been through hell walk out
of the flames carrying buckets of water for those still

(28:03):
consumed by the fire. Can that is you to a
t You could be doing anything at all. No one
would fault you if you wanted to go be out
on an island somewhere with your toes in the sand
and a drink in each hand. You know, but that's
not the reality at all. You have hit the ground
running that have been making an impact on not just

(28:27):
individual cases, but on the macro issues. That have already
affected are going to continue effect even long after you're gone.
People in Michigan and even in the broader movement, and
so talk to us about the work that you've been doing.
It would have met to see you. Well, I meet
myself an agenda. I was so locked up, but I
knew it was just a matter of time before the
truth would come out. And one thing I wanted to do.

(28:47):
I wanted to have a rawful compensation build passed here
in Michigan because we didn't have one at the time.
And as a matter of fact, and you say to Michigan,
if you were in prison for a crime that you
did commit and your release from prison, the state will
help you get housing, job, trading clothing, food stamps. Okay,
you have to get your back on your feet. If
you are someone like myself, for my fellow Is honorees

(29:08):
who are totally innocent and release from prison, you don't
get a penny. That's just ridiculous. So I worked totally
a half years have that bill passed and another bill
that I worked on. There are so many unsolved, untested
rate cases in the state of Michigan, especially in Wayne
County in the Detroit area. I had this idea that
before someone can be released from prison on parole, they

(29:31):
have to submit a DNA sample. That DNA sample will
go into the National Code system and maybe they get
one hit. They take us all one rape of one murder.
It will be good. Good thing. That bill has passed
in the middle of two thousand eight, and ironically, that
was how they caught the actual rapist in my case
because of that bill. Wow. The actual rapist, his name

(29:53):
is Craig Ganza. He was about to be released from prison.
He gave a DNA sample. That's how he was found. Now,
one thing I want to make perfectly clear how bad
wrongful misidentifications are. The victims said, you know, she never
saw guy's face. She thought he was six two or
six three thirty pounds deep left chin at the time.

(30:14):
I was five ft eleven pounds. Okay, Mr Ganzer. The
actual rapist is six ft six, two hundred and ninety pounds. Wow,
So I was only eight inches often height and a
hundred five pounds and weight. You know, to me, that
shows more definite proof that the police knew that they

(30:36):
were framing an innocent man. So I'm happy about doing that.
I'm working on something for the last three or four
years about the qualified immunity issue that has to go.
This testimony has to go, and I don't care how
long does that take me. I'll get it done. So
there's some new development as we're speaking now that I
know you were so excited about. Tell us quickly about that. Well.

(30:58):
The good news is this deal's dely with Gail, and
I'm so proud of her. She is the most remarkable
and I've ever met in my life. We have a
new prosecutor McCown County's name is Pete Mosito, and Gail
you know more about it than I do. Pete has
started and gotten the budget to start up what's known
as a Conviction Integrity Unit, and the idea is is

(31:19):
once it's up and running, it will review cases to
determine whether or not innocent people are in prison. The
good thing is, the good news is Pete Lucido has
named Gail the director of the Macco County CiU unit.
Gail told me the news about that. That could be
a miracle in itself. The whole idea is the fair

(31:39):
administration of justice, and that exists on both ones, both
on the prosecutorial and on the side of innocence and
wrongful convictions to right those wrongs. And Pete has a
definite interest in making sure that the right people are
in prison. The prosecutor, in my opinion, should be not
only the sort of justice he or she has to
be the shield of justice. Also well said, and can

(32:03):
if people want to know more about you or your story,
you have a book now, right, You have a book
that's available right now. How can our audience find that?
In case anyone would like to read my book, My
book is called Deliberate Injustice, the runfall Conviction of Can
you can go online? The website is Deliberate Injustice the
book dot com. You can also watch a story about

(32:24):
my case on Netflix. The series is called The Innocence Files.
My episode number nine is called The Million Dollar Man.
We'll have that link in the bio. And now we
go to the closing of our show, which is always
my favorite part. We call it closing Arguments, where first
of all, I think our two incredible guests, of course,

(32:44):
can Whinem go. You are a hero, and I'm so
proud of you and all the work you've done, and
I'm looking forward to continuing to work together to make
the system fairer and better for everyone. And of course,
Gail Pa mccough, I know how much this case meant
to you, so it's so great that you're here to
share this sort of triumphant retelling of this awful saga

(33:05):
and of course the good that came from it. So
how this segment of the show works is very, very simple.
I'm going to turn off my microphone, kick back in
my chair, leave my headphones on, and probably close my eyes,
and then closing arguments. Basically, you could just say anything
else you want to say anything. We haven't covered anything
you want to share with our audience. Gaily, you start

(33:26):
with all due respect to you, but it save the
best for last. Well, thank you so much for inviting
me and Ken to talk on your show. This is
a really important subject and from the standpoint of a lawyer,
it's an exciting area to be in. It's also an
heartbreaking area to work in. Just to give your listeners
some context in terms of the degree of the problem,

(33:47):
the Department of Justice reports that in two thousand nineteen,
there were two million, eighty six thousand people in prison
in the United States. The Innocence Project of West Virginia
says that between three and six percent of those in
prison are wrongfully convicted. Three percent is sixty two thi
hundred and eighty people, and six percent are hundred thoud

(34:09):
sixty people at any given time. And the truth is,
I don't think anybody really knows the real numbers. These
are extrapolations of these different programs. The National Registry of
Exoneration and keeps tracks of all the exonerations in the
United States, reports that since there have been two thousand,
nine hundred and thirty seven generations. Think about that, when

(34:33):
at any moment in time there's up two hundred and
twenty five thousand people wrongfully convicted in prison. It's an
astounding problem. People think that those in prison they're guilty,
and people that make claims of innocent are just blowing smoke.
It's not true. The wrongfully convicted, in the innocent are
truly sitting in prisons. So I hope that your audience

(34:53):
takes away that this does happen, can happen to you.
It can happen to your neighbor, your son, your father,
your un or your mother. It happens, and it's a tragedy.
It's almost an irreparable tragedy. In Ken's case, he lost
almost ten years of his life. He has out and
he has done an amazing job over these almost twenty years.
He's an extraordinary human, but he lost a lot too.

(35:16):
And so I hope that your audience takes away the
large scope of the problem. And she can also contribute
locally and nationally in terms of pressing politicians to create
more conviction integrity units, support innocence projects, support criminal justice reform,
and that type of thing. Thank you, thank you, Gail.

(35:39):
She is the epitome of what an attorney should be. Jason,
thank you for giving me the opportunity to tell my story.
It's want to do to people like you that he's not.
A rese such as myself can't share their stories with
the entire country with the hopes of enlightening people to
the truth law and for convictions happen every day in
this country. They have to stop, they must stop. I

(36:02):
don't consider myself a hero, and I'm just a good
guy who wants to do the right thing. And I
don't want anyone to have to go through what I
or my family had to go through. It's not fair.
It's not right. It's not the way America is supposed
to be. We can change it. It takes all of
us to change, each and every one of us. Again,
I want to thank you Jason Gail. I love you both.

(36:24):
Let's keep up to fight. God bless you, God bless everyone,
and make God bless America. Thank you, Thank you for
listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank our production
team Connor Hall, Justin Golden, Jeff Claverne, and Kevin Wardis,
with research by Lila Robinson. The music in this production

(36:46):
was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,
on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at
wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On
all three platforms. You can also follow me on both
TikTok and Instagram at It's Jason flam Raleval Conviction is

(37:08):
the production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with
Signal Company Number one
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Hosts And Creators

Lauren Bright Pacheco

Lauren Bright Pacheco

Maggie Freleng

Maggie Freleng

Jason Flom

Jason Flom

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