August 15, 2022 • 41 mins
When Tammy Poole and her husband Michael Poole argued, Tammy says that Michael would threaten to commit suicide. Then on April 22, 2007, in their hometown of Chatsworth, GA, a rifle took Michael’s life. While Tammy adamantly claims that her husband tragically shot himself in front of her, a single declaration from a pathologist led investigators to theorize that Tammy actually pulled the trigger. Despite numerous experts proving this pathologist wrong, and countless examples of an unfair trial with ineffective assistance, Tammy has been serving a life sentence in prison since 2008. Maggie speaks with Tammy Poole, Shanacy Densmore, Tammy’s daughter and Brandon Bullard, Tammy’s attorney. Author, podcaster and exoneree Amanda Knox joins Maggie at the top of the show to set the stage for this tragic story.
To learn more and get involved, visit:
https://www.change.org/p/the-state-of-georgia-release-tammy-from-years-of-wrongful-imprisonment
Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freleng is a production of Lava for Good™ Podcasts in association with Signal Co. No1.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
A note for listeners, this episode contains discussion of suicide.
Please listen with caution and care. So, Amanda, thank you
for joining me. I want to introduce you to listeners
who might not know who you are. You are a podcaster,
you have a podcast with your husband called Labyrinth, and
you're an ethical storyteller. Is how you like to refer
(00:21):
to yourself. Yes, and for those who don't know, I
also was wrongly convicted, which is how we know each
other through the Innocence Network. So it's great to see
you again, Maggie. When you look at wrongful convictions with women,
what are maybe the three most common factors you see?
So the vast majority of cases where women are wrongly
convicted actually involved them being accused of a crime that
(00:44):
never happened in the first place. What ultimately happens in
a lot of these cases is women who are suddenly
shocked by a tragic thing that happens to them feel
a sense of guilt that is then utilized by the
police to either coerce them in to falsely confessing, or
is used as a way to suggest that they are
(01:05):
behaving like a guilty person. So someone who is experiencing
grief or shock is told that they're not acting the
way that a person is supposed to act in their situation.
And there's also this assumption that we have that women,
especially in the caretaking role, are somehow responsible when something
tragic and unfortunate happens to someone who is in their
(01:28):
care and we need to push back against those assumptions
and narratives of the perfect mother and the perfect wife
and the perfect daughter and instead acknowledge that human beings
are complicated and that there's more to the story, likely
than we are being told in the media. I kept
(01:51):
thinking that I wouldn't have to say anything because the
mamma at that town struggling is thinking that it was
my fault, that I should have done something different. I
didn't realize that saying these things was making me look guilty.
(02:13):
I didn't realize that people were watching that every moon
from Lava for Good this is wrongful conviction with Maggie
Freeling today Tammy Pool. On the evening of April two
(02:43):
thousand seven, Tammy Pool and her husband Michael got into
an argument at their home in Chatsworth, Georgia. They had
a tumultuous relationship and this was not unusual. This time, though,
a gun was involved and Michael suffered a fatal bullet
wound to his temple. Tammy says the shot was self
(03:03):
inflicted and that Michael had often threatened suicide in the past,
but as the only witness to the shooting, police saw
Tammy as a suspect. A case was quickly built against her,
and she was arrested, charged, and convicted for the murder
of her husband, Michael. This is not happening. This is
(03:26):
just this can't be happening. How did they not know?
I didn't realize that. My lawyers did not think. I
didn't realize that, um, there was no science to it,
just one opinion. He assured me he was going to
tell the jury how it happened, and that never never happened.
(03:50):
I am Tammy Pool. I've been incarcerated in uh Georgia
prisons for fifteen years. Tammy Pool was born December three
(04:15):
in La j, Georgia to Rose and Curtis David. She's
the youngest of two kids. Her brother, Danny, is fifteen
years older. I always looked up to my brother. He
was just great to me. He had this wonderful, big,
huge cat. I used to share my ice cream with it,
and I just loved that cat. Tammy and her brother
(04:38):
learned to find joy in the little things, especially since
their family didn't have a lot of money. One year,
we weren't able to get a birthday cake, and my
mom had bought some about a couple of boxes of
little debbies and arranged them and made it look like
a clown so it was a clown cake. So I
remember that being happy. But Tammy's childhood was also filled
(05:03):
with a lot of trauma. My Uh, my father drank
a lot. Uh my mother was a hoarder, so there
was a lot of things that went on. Um, I
had different babysitters, so there was some childhood mental, physical,
(05:23):
and sexual abuse. And I just I've never I just
didn't say anything. Um, I kind of closed in all myself.
As she got older, she admits she started expressing her
trauma in destructive ways. When I was seventeen years old,
(05:48):
I um was hanging around with some people that were
a little older than me, and um they were breaking
into houses. I was as eight in the vehicle while
they went in, and of course they ended up getting caught,
and then I had gotten trouble for shot lifting. When
(06:10):
Tammy was seventeen, she met her first husband, Kenny. After
about a year together, in August five, she gave birth
to her first child, Shannonsy. It was amazing just to
see her born, to see her little face when she
came out, it was just absolutely amazing. Um. Then within
(06:34):
just a few months, I was pregnant again and this
was my son, Christopher. He was born to L twenty third,
So that was only eleven and a half months after Shantasy,
So we would call those Irish twins. Tammy and her
husband bought a house in Chatsworth, Georgia. Life was great.
(06:56):
They were living their dream and their children have fond
memories to you. What do you remember about growing up
with your mom? Remember her taking us to Disney World,
I mean driving the Tower of Terror and I was terrified.
This is Tammy's oldest child, Shannonsy. I remember her like
teaching me how to drive when I was younger, like
(07:18):
bits and pieces, um and her taking me to beauty pageants.
She was like my biggest fan when I was in
beauty pageants. I used to take them to karate practice
and um I tried to coach them in basketball. A
little five and six year old teams and UM, I
(07:41):
didn't know how to play basketball, but I just wanted
to spend time with them, and I wanted them to
have the things that I didn't have. On the outside, Tammy,
Kenny and their kids were a picture perfect family, but
her marriage with Kenny soon hit the rocks. We were
We were good for a little while, and then about
(08:02):
ten years in we decided to call it quits. Tammy's
past had caught up with her and it led her
to drug use. I had battled with UM addiction to
myth and UM, I just I'm not sure exactly what
(08:28):
to say about that. UM. A lot of people may
understand the childhood trauma, especially untreated childhood trauma. You will
live your life in a way kind of like on autopilot.
You just do. You don't really think about it. So
my struggle with drugs, I didn't really think about that.
(08:52):
I just I just did it. Tammy's drug youse got
out of control. She went to jail a couple of
time is because of it, which led to more problems
between her and Kenny. We had a awful custody battle,
and I was usually on the losing end. Shantasy remembers
(09:13):
how it impacted her relationship with her mom. It wasn't
really a conventional relationship, Like I didn't I felt like
I didn't really like my mom because of everything I
had heard, and I wasn't able to form my own
opinion as a child. So what were you hearing like
(09:36):
people around town or classmates, um, family members, mostly family
members saying that like, she's always going to be a
drug addict, she's always going to be a bad person.
She's always like, uh, never going to be there for me.
And so did you feel like she was a good mom? Well,
(09:56):
I mean I felt like she was um for a
little while. Well and then I really don't know when
it was, but I had like she had to meet
us at a place for like supervised visitation, and I
remember being told that she had to take a drug
test and I remember thinking like that's that's not what
(10:19):
I want as a mom, Like that's not who I
want my mom to be, and that's I didn't really
think she was a good mom at that point. I
did when I was younger, um, but after probably nine
maybe tien um, I started to think that she was
just a junkie and a bad person because that's what
(10:40):
I had been led to believe, and I wasn't really
able to get to know her because I had already
planted in my mind that I didn't want to. Around
this time, about two thousand one, Tammy was trying to
pick up the pieces of her life when she met
another man named Robbie. Their son, Brent, was born in
two thousand three, but that relationship didn't last long. So
(11:05):
I was still in the middle of those becaust the battles,
trying to get trying to get myself together, trying to
do all these things, but I could never quite reach
my um potential. Tammy became more motivated to change things though,
(11:29):
when she met someone else around January two thousand four.
His name was Robert Michael Pool, and he went by Michael.
He seemed like a really nice person. He had his
own place, he had a job as a carpenter, and
we just started talking. And I was single at the time,
(11:54):
so I just thought it was great. I kind of
thought that he was, Oh, here's this guy that's got
it together and I keep messing up. He can help me.
I kind of with him as like my savior. Tammy
was smitten with Michael I just thought that, uh, Mike
(12:18):
was gonna get a little better. Okay, I'm gonna have
this normal life. We're gonna be We're gonna be just fun.
Like Tammy, Michael had three kids. They moved in together,
and things were on the up for their blended family. Yeah. Yeah.
We always talked about our kids and we would take
them places like the river and fishing and things like that. Um,
(12:45):
fun things with the kids. I don't know. We just
we called ourselves the Brady Bunch, the Pool Bunch. Tammy
was finally feeling good in her life, and two thousand
five she went back to school at Appalachian Technical College
to study accounting and business. She eventually pursued a paralegal program,
(13:08):
and it was love for her older brother Danny that
inspired her. He had a lot of run ins with
the police, and I really wanted to keep him out
of jail. So I thought, if I could be a
good attorney, I could keep him out of jail. But
not long after Tammy and Michael got together, things took
a turn. It started with the house they were living in.
(13:30):
It comes found out the house study lived in, he
didn't actually he wasn't actually running that house. It wasn't
actually his house. So after I had moved in there
with him, we um lift and moved in with his sister.
And UM, it was just it was it was little things,
(13:52):
and these were things Michael's ex wife had already tried
to warn her about. She tried to talk to me
one day and and I didn't listen. I I always
thought that it was her fault that they had split up,
and I didn't realize until probably a year later, that, Um,
(14:15):
Michael had some serious problems. Those little things that I liked.
I liked the way he watched me. I like the
way he paid attention. But it kind of turned dark. Um,
if my eyes looked the wrong way, I was accused
of looking at somebody else or um. It was little things,
(14:40):
little things like that. But Tammy says, the little things
at times also turned into physical violence. And then it
was a push and then the harder shove, and so um,
of course I pushed back, and then I left, and
(15:01):
then we got back together, and then I left, and
then we got back together. Timmy says they would follow
the cycle countless times, but of course maybe and me
I would make excuses for him. By two thousand six,
(15:21):
things were really bad between the two. One day they
were driving in the car and got into an argument,
and it took the trouble they were having to a
whole other level. We had a car accident. But the accident, um,
it wasn't really an accident, Like he ran the car
off the road because we were arguing and I had
(15:41):
just buckled my seatbelt because the road that we were
on was just very very curvy, and we hit a tree.
So you think he did it on purpose? Um, No,
he did. He did it on purpose. Um. He said
that he was going to kill us both. Tammy was
(16:06):
lucky she survived, although the accident left her badly injured
with internal bleeding. She would be in a walker for
months after. Still, Tammy and Michael stayed together, but things
continued to deteriorate. Tammy started becoming convinced that Michael was
having some serious mental health issues. We dabbled in Matthews
(16:28):
and I'm not sure. I'm not sure if he did
the wrong kind, if you did too much. It was
like he started going crazy and there was something. It
was odd. Everyone noticed his behavior. His older sister and
(16:48):
I talked about having had committed He had went to
his ex wife's house, tried to get a telephone that
belonged to his dad, this antique telephone, because he thought
he was going to call his ad. The problem is
his dad had been dead for years, so it was
I can't really describe it, and Tammy says, Michael continued
(17:12):
to talk about suicide. He had started doing that so much.
I had taken guns away from him before, and his
little sister had taken got her boyfriend to take a
gun away from him. It just seems to be getting
worse and worse. I didn't know. I didn't know what
to do. He had found out that his sister and
(17:34):
I were talking about putting me in a mental institution,
and he sore that he would he would kill me
to kill her. He would kills both. That he did
not want to go to a mental institution, and I
believe him. The violence at home was bad. We argued constantly.
(17:57):
It was. It was more than I knew how to
deal with. I didn't know how to help him, help myself,
how to convince him that I loved him and that
we were going to be okay. It was it was
a very very dark time. This episode is underwritten by
(18:22):
A I G, a leading global insurance company. A i
G is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making
a positive difference in the lives of its employees and
in the communities where we work and live. In light
of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance and
in recognition of a i g s commitment to criminal
(18:42):
and social justice reform, the a i G Pro Bono
Program provides free legal services and other support to underrepresented
communities and individuals. On the evening of April seven, Tammy
(19:02):
and Michael were again arguing. I found out that he
had been talking to this girl, but it turns out
he was only talking to her about drugs. So we
were arguing. Um, I told him. I told him that
day that, Um, I hope he died, you know. Then
(19:29):
we made up, of course, there's always that makeup period.
Then Shantisy and Christopher left to spend the evening with
their father. Brent also went with his dad. Of course,
after the kids left, we had some you know, makeup
making out, um, and I don't know what happened, like
(19:50):
something snack, um, And then he just got really really
angry and um. Tammy says. This is when Michael went
and grabbed a rifle. I remember I was on the
bed and he pointed the gun at me, and I
(20:14):
got in the fetal position, and I was just saying no, please, no,
no no. And then he pulled me by my ankle
off the end of the bed and he was banging
that the gun. It was a rifle. He was banging
it against his head and it was right there in
(20:37):
front of my face, and and I got up. I
was standing, and he leaned over in front of me,
and so he kept reaching for the trigger and I
had my hands on the end of the barrel, and
I kept thinking, it's gonna shoot me, It's gonna shoot me.
But Michael didn't shoot her. He put his trigger. I'm sorry.
(21:05):
The bullet hit Michael in the left side of his forehead.
I didn't have any idea what to do, um, I
didn't no CPR. I kept trying to get my phone
down on one one. I didn't want to leave them
ahead to go outside to come out one one and
(21:27):
I am. It seemed like it too had been forever
to get there. I don't have any idea how long
was it just seemed like a really long time. An
ambulance finally came and took Michael to the hospital. Tammy
was driven there by a friend from church. At the hospital,
(21:47):
Michael was pronounced dead. Tammy was absolutely distraught, but I
just kept saying, I should have I should have I
should have done something different. Um, I should be nicer.
I shouldn't have said what I said when I told
(22:09):
him that I hope he died. I shouldn't have said that.
When the police came onto the case, they immediately questioned Tammy.
(22:33):
I remember they asked me like a lot of questions.
But I kept thinking that you know, they're gonna know,
They're they're gonna know he shot himself. I mean, they
have to know, right. The police were focusing on the
fact that Tammy's story kept changing. I kept thinking that
I wouldn't have to say anything because my mind at
(22:59):
that time struggling with thinking that it was my fault,
that I should have done something different. Because she felt
guilty for telling Michael she wished he was dead. Tammy
didn't want the police to think it was a suicide.
I kept thinking, Okay, well, if I say that the
(23:24):
gun got caught on a broken laundry basket there, that
the trigger got caught on that then it wasn't my
fault and it wasn't Michael's fault, and everybody can just
live with a tragic accident. And so that's what I
told people. Then my landlord called and said, what happened?
(23:47):
Was he cleaning the gun? And that was the next morning.
And what was I to say? No, he killed himself
because I was a bad wife. Rather than saying that,
I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what happened. I didn't
realize that saying these things was making me look guilty.
(24:10):
I didn't realize that people were watching that every move
I was drowning in my pain. And I don't know.
I don't know what I was thinking. I can't um
I can't describe that. A pathologist, Dr William Oliver, performed
(24:38):
the autopsy on Michael's body and declared that the fatal
shot was not self inflicted. This, along with her changing statements,
solidified the case against Tammy, and just a few months later,
in June two seven, she was arrested for the murder
of Michael Pool. Tammy's trial started on June nine, a
(25:08):
year after Michael's death. Her defense attorney, Richard Thurman, was
actually Michael's cousin by marriage, and if that sounds like
it's weird, it is. The prosecutor was d A. Joe
Hendrix and one of his assistants, Mike Baird. Their case
was straightforward. Tammy was the only one in the room
with Michael she shot him. A firearms examiner from the
(25:32):
Georgia Bureau of Investigation, Christopher Robinson, took the stand. He
said the weapon used was the semi automatic rifle found
in the bedroom Tammy and Michael shared. The prosecutors also
called Dr Oliver, who testified that the gunshot wound was
inflicted not by Michael but by someone else. The prosecution
also used Tammy and Michael's tumultuous relationship, her past run
(25:55):
ins with the law, and her changing story against her.
A woman who had been imprisoned in the same facility
as Tammy testified that Tammy had confessed to her that
she had gotten Michael quote out of the picture in
order to be with someone else. Both of Tammy's kids
were also called to testify against her. I remember them
hounding me with crazy questions like what we had to
(26:19):
eat and what I was doing there the week before
because it was spring break. Things like um did I
see them ever like hit each other or anything like that,
And I just I just didn't think that was a
Those are questions to ask a child. It's like they
were trying to get me to say that they were
(26:42):
physically abusive to each other in front of everybody, or
like they were. They asked me if I had ever
seen them be involved in drugs, and I I was
not prepared to answer that on a stand. At fourteen,
when it came time for Tammy's son, Christopher to take
the witness stand, he said he saw Tammy and my
Michael make up after their fight before leaving with his dad.
(27:03):
Michael's sister testified that she believed Michael would kill Tammy
and then himself, and Michael's brother in law also testified
that Michael had said he would kill himself if the
circumstances did not improve. Defense attorney Thurman also cross examined
the woman who had allegedly heard Tammy confess while she
was in jail. Under cross examination, it came out that
(27:24):
this witness had a motive of her own to sell
Tammy out for perhaps less severe charges for herself, but
the defense did not call any experts to refute the
States expert that Michael's death was not a murder. The
trial was quick, the jury found Tammy guilty, and she
was sentenced to life in prison plus twenty seven years.
(27:50):
This is not happening. This is just this can't be happening.
How did they not know? I didn't realize that. My
lawyers did not think. I didn't realize that, um, there
was no science to it, just one opinion. He assured
me he was going to tell the jury how it happened,
(28:11):
and that never never happened. Timmy lost everything, including her kids.
So did you think your mom did this when it
first happened. I did. After her mother went to prison,
(28:36):
Shannonsy says she felt worthless. I had always been told
that I was just like her, So I started to think, well,
maybe I am. Maybe I just can't be good. Maybe
I don't know any good things to do. So Shannonsy
started running with a bad crowd like her mom had done.
After I turned twenty one, I was really well. After
(28:56):
I turned eighteen is when I moved out and I
was able to, Oh goodness, do really crazy things because
I felt like my whole life was not there, Like
I didn't I didn't have my mom. My relationship with
my dad was not good because of that, and so
I just I kind of felt like a went off
the rails. I guess you could say I started to party,
(29:20):
to drink, being reckless and careless. For years, Shannonsy and
Tammy went without speaking. During that time, Tammy made a
point to work on herself. She got clean from drugs
and sought treatment for her childhood trauma. She started doing
yoga and focusing on spiritual and physical well being. All
the while she also kept working on her case. Tammy
(29:43):
kept thinking, surely, at some point they're going to know. Surely,
at some point somebody will see the truth. Then someone
did see. A pro bono attorney picked up Tammy's cave,
and in two thousand eleven, they filed a motion for
a new trial. At this point, Tammy reached out to
(30:05):
her kids. She let them know she had a court
hearing coming up and she wanted them to attend. And
I remember going, and I remember sitting in that courtroom,
and when I heard everything they were saying, it was
like my mom was blown. All these years, Chantasy thought
(30:26):
her mom was a cold blooded murderer, but now sitting
in the courtroom hearing the evidence. I couldn't fathom the
fact that I was one of the ones that was
against her when there was no possible way she could
have done this everything they were laying out in court,
There was no way. Something was seriously wrong with this case.
(30:48):
And at that moment, I knew that I had to
find out and I had to get her side, and
I had to help her because it wasn't fair, Like
I felt like I had ripped the opportunity from her,
from her telling me the truth because I didn't give
her a chance, because nobody allowed me to really get
the truth from her. They didn't let me see what
(31:11):
really happened. From that moment on, I have believed in
my mom and I will never back down again. In
Tammy's motion was denied, but by she was back in court,
(31:31):
her story was immediately compelling to me. She was an
immediately compelling person. This is Tammy's current lawyer, Brendan Bullard.
He came onto her case in what what was compelling
about her case that made you want to take it for?
You know? Virtually nothing? Well, two things, uh, One, Tammy.
(31:51):
The way Tammy told her story to me, I can't
count the number of murder cases I've handled at this point,
I don't want to think about it that. Uh, it
just it did not jibe with with any of my
past experiences. It just the state's narrative, what what It
just didn't seem to fit, especially after talking to her.
(32:17):
One of the main pieces of evidence for Tammy's innocence
is the results of a gunshot residue test. These results
had actually been presented at the trial. There was no
gunshot residue because typically when you when you fire a gun,
there is microscopic residue that sort of balloons out or
(32:38):
plumes out from from around the gun and it ends
up on your hands, it ends up in your clothes,
and it can be tested for. So there's sort of
one piece of forensic evidence that you would assume should
be there if Tammy fired the shot that is wholly absent.
And Tammy's new team finally has experts that contract to
(33:00):
what the state said at Tammy's trial. At that time,
Dr Oliver, the state's expert, said that there is no
dispute that the fatal shot in Michael's forehead was from
close range. However, for Tammy to have fired a shot
into her husband's head at at at the steep angle
that Dr Oliver proposed, he would have to have been
(33:21):
lying prone. She would have to have been holding the
rifle at his head and pointing towards his body. It's
just hard to him unless he's unless he's shooting him
when he's asleep, and there's no suggestion that that's the case.
The post conviction team brought that testimony to a new expert,
Dr James Downs, who has been a forensic pathologist for
(33:43):
three decades. Dr Down says that the state's expert was
flat out wrong. The bullet didn't go downward as Dr
Oliver had contended, but traveled upward into Michael's head. And
Dr Down's words quote, it's physically impossible for this injury
to happen with a rifle at that angle. But much
(34:04):
more plausible and much more physically possible, is the diagram
of Michael holding shot across his body. His arm is
long enough to reach the trigger pull on the Winchester
to hold the shot against his head. And basically, when
you look at the undeniable forensic evidence of the direction
of the foot, the location of the pieces that rejectile,
(34:26):
and the path of rejectile took through his head. When
you trace that, it just seems obvious because it is
where natural is more plausible. It is the explanation that
best fits all of the data without excluding anything. And then,
in a surprise twist, one of the original States experts
(34:49):
is now on Tammy's side. Christopher Robinson, formerly of the
Georgia Bureau of Investigation, had testified at the trial about
the type of gun that was used. He's now retired
with his own forensic practice, so Tammy's team went back
to him and asked him to evaluate the evidence, something
he had never been asked to do for Tammy's case.
When Chris looked at the evidence, he simply could not
(35:14):
avoid the conclusion that it was that it was a
self inflicted shot and because it was consistent with with
other suicides he's handled. And that's the and that's his
read on the evidence. And you know, his is a
hard opinion to discount. He's willing to come in and say,
look this this is I'm I'm in this because it
(35:34):
is wrong, because the conviction is wrong. And if the
g b I had asked me to look at the
case the way I've since been asked to look the case,
I would have come to the same conclusion. Robinson also
suggested that the gun be tested for DNA. If Tammy
fired the shot, she would have had her hands around
(35:55):
the trigger of the gun, around the butt and the
trigger pull and the trigger guard, and so she would
have likely deposited skin cells there, so that can be
sampled and determined. And at this point what we fully
expect DNA testing the show is that her skin cells
(36:15):
are not there. That they might be saying near the
barrel of the gun or on the barrel gun where
she she moved it, but they weren't near the trigger,
and that Michael's and also that Michael's are Tammy's team
is currently petitioning for the DNA testing. Between the lack
of gunshot residue on Tammy or her clothes and dr
(36:38):
downs and Christopher Robinson's testimonies, plus the potential new DNA evidence, Tammy,
her family and her team are hopeful she will be
granted a new trial and come home. Shannessy says she's
ready to have her mom finally back in her life
and to start their relationship over. So, how is it
(36:59):
now amazing? We talk every day Um, she's my biggest supporter.
Somebody girl. Huh yeah she uh. She does everything she
can to help. She is seriously the strongest woman I
(37:26):
know at this point, Like she hasn't been through so
much and yet she still sees the positive side of everything.
But she she's smart, she's funny. Um, she's dedicated to
her family. Um, she talks to my kids every day
(37:48):
that she calls. And she sent prison. I can't imagine
how how happy I could have been if she would
have been in my life when she was supposed to be,
Like if we would have been able to talk when
I turned eighteen or seventeen or sixteen even, and she
(38:09):
could have told me that I am like, I am
worth it, and I am okay, and I'm not like
anybody else, and she's not like anybody else. And you
can change, you can accept you're past and then change
your future. And when her mom does get out, Shantonsy's
(38:34):
first order of business, We're gonna die her hair. That's
what she wants. She wants me to bring a box
of hair die and die her hair because she's yes, yeah,
so And they were going to go to six Flags
and Lake Winnie and take the kids to Florida, and
I'm gonna be able to go on a date my
(38:55):
fiance because she'll be able to watch my kids and
she'll love it anyway. So it's gonna be amazing. So
when you get out, Tammy, what's like the first things
you want to do? Um? Hug all three of my grandchildren. Um,
(39:19):
maybe just be grateful for every second. Thank you, kiss
the outside ground. If you want to help Tammy, you
can go to change dot org and search Tammy Pool.
There's a petition started by Shannonsy for her freedom. Thank
(39:44):
you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank
Amanda Knox for bringing Tammy's case to our attention and
for joining me on the show today. Starting next week,
Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling is taking a break for
a while, but we'll be back with season two real soon.
In the meantime, don't go anywhere. We've still got lots
of these stories to tell, and you can still catch
(40:05):
Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom every Thursday. See you in
season two. Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with
Maggie Freeling. Please support your local innocence organizations. And go
to the links in our bio to see how you
(40:27):
can help. I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason
Flam and Kevin Wurdis, as well as our senior producer
Annie Chelsea, researcher Lila Robinson, story editor Sonya Paul, with
additional production by Jeff Klaiburne and Connor Hall. The music
in this production is by three time OSCAR nominated composer
Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at
(40:49):
Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on
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On all three platforms, you can also follow me both
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Freeling is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in
association with Signal Company Number one h
A note for listeners, this episode contains discussion of suicide.
Please listen with caution and care. So, Amanda, thank you
for joining me. I want to introduce you to listeners
who might not know who you are. You are a podcaster,
you have a podcast with your husband called Labyrinth, and
you're an ethical storyteller. Is how you like to refer
(00:21):
to yourself. Yes, and for those who don't know, I
also was wrongly convicted, which is how we know each
other through the Innocence Network. So it's great to see
you again, Maggie. When you look at wrongful convictions with women,
what are maybe the three most common factors you see?
So the vast majority of cases where women are wrongly
convicted actually involved them being accused of a crime that
(00:44):
never happened in the first place. What ultimately happens in
a lot of these cases is women who are suddenly
shocked by a tragic thing that happens to them feel
a sense of guilt that is then utilized by the
police to either coerce them in to falsely confessing, or
is used as a way to suggest that they are
(01:05):
behaving like a guilty person. So someone who is experiencing
grief or shock is told that they're not acting the
way that a person is supposed to act in their situation.
And there's also this assumption that we have that women,
especially in the caretaking role, are somehow responsible when something
tragic and unfortunate happens to someone who is in their
(01:28):
care and we need to push back against those assumptions
and narratives of the perfect mother and the perfect wife
and the perfect daughter and instead acknowledge that human beings
are complicated and that there's more to the story, likely
than we are being told in the media. I kept
(01:51):
thinking that I wouldn't have to say anything because the
mamma at that town struggling is thinking that it was
my fault, that I should have done something different. I
didn't realize that saying these things was making me look guilty.
(02:13):
I didn't realize that people were watching that every moon
from Lava for Good this is wrongful conviction with Maggie
Freeling today Tammy Pool. On the evening of April two
(02:43):
thousand seven, Tammy Pool and her husband Michael got into
an argument at their home in Chatsworth, Georgia. They had
a tumultuous relationship and this was not unusual. This time, though,
a gun was involved and Michael suffered a fatal bullet
wound to his temple. Tammy says the shot was self
(03:03):
inflicted and that Michael had often threatened suicide in the past,
but as the only witness to the shooting, police saw
Tammy as a suspect. A case was quickly built against her,
and she was arrested, charged, and convicted for the murder
of her husband, Michael. This is not happening. This is
(03:26):
just this can't be happening. How did they not know?
I didn't realize that. My lawyers did not think. I
didn't realize that, um, there was no science to it,
just one opinion. He assured me he was going to
tell the jury how it happened, and that never never happened.
(03:50):
I am Tammy Pool. I've been incarcerated in uh Georgia
prisons for fifteen years. Tammy Pool was born December three
(04:15):
in La j, Georgia to Rose and Curtis David. She's
the youngest of two kids. Her brother, Danny, is fifteen
years older. I always looked up to my brother. He
was just great to me. He had this wonderful, big,
huge cat. I used to share my ice cream with it,
and I just loved that cat. Tammy and her brother
(04:38):
learned to find joy in the little things, especially since
their family didn't have a lot of money. One year,
we weren't able to get a birthday cake, and my
mom had bought some about a couple of boxes of
little debbies and arranged them and made it look like
a clown so it was a clown cake. So I
remember that being happy. But Tammy's childhood was also filled
(05:03):
with a lot of trauma. My Uh, my father drank
a lot. Uh my mother was a hoarder, so there
was a lot of things that went on. Um, I
had different babysitters, so there was some childhood mental, physical,
(05:23):
and sexual abuse. And I just I've never I just
didn't say anything. Um, I kind of closed in all myself.
As she got older, she admits she started expressing her
trauma in destructive ways. When I was seventeen years old,
(05:48):
I um was hanging around with some people that were
a little older than me, and um they were breaking
into houses. I was as eight in the vehicle while
they went in, and of course they ended up getting caught,
and then I had gotten trouble for shot lifting. When
(06:10):
Tammy was seventeen, she met her first husband, Kenny. After
about a year together, in August five, she gave birth
to her first child, Shannonsy. It was amazing just to
see her born, to see her little face when she
came out, it was just absolutely amazing. Um. Then within
(06:34):
just a few months, I was pregnant again and this
was my son, Christopher. He was born to L twenty third,
So that was only eleven and a half months after Shantasy,
So we would call those Irish twins. Tammy and her
husband bought a house in Chatsworth, Georgia. Life was great.
(06:56):
They were living their dream and their children have fond
memories to you. What do you remember about growing up
with your mom? Remember her taking us to Disney World,
I mean driving the Tower of Terror and I was terrified.
This is Tammy's oldest child, Shannonsy. I remember her like
teaching me how to drive when I was younger, like
(07:18):
bits and pieces, um and her taking me to beauty pageants.
She was like my biggest fan when I was in
beauty pageants. I used to take them to karate practice
and um I tried to coach them in basketball. A
little five and six year old teams and UM, I
(07:41):
didn't know how to play basketball, but I just wanted
to spend time with them, and I wanted them to
have the things that I didn't have. On the outside, Tammy,
Kenny and their kids were a picture perfect family, but
her marriage with Kenny soon hit the rocks. We were
We were good for a little while, and then about
(08:02):
ten years in we decided to call it quits. Tammy's
past had caught up with her and it led her
to drug use. I had battled with UM addiction to
myth and UM, I just I'm not sure exactly what
(08:28):
to say about that. UM. A lot of people may
understand the childhood trauma, especially untreated childhood trauma. You will
live your life in a way kind of like on autopilot.
You just do. You don't really think about it. So
my struggle with drugs, I didn't really think about that.
(08:52):
I just I just did it. Tammy's drug youse got
out of control. She went to jail a couple of
time is because of it, which led to more problems
between her and Kenny. We had a awful custody battle,
and I was usually on the losing end. Shantasy remembers
(09:13):
how it impacted her relationship with her mom. It wasn't
really a conventional relationship, Like I didn't I felt like
I didn't really like my mom because of everything I
had heard, and I wasn't able to form my own
opinion as a child. So what were you hearing like
(09:36):
people around town or classmates, um, family members, mostly family
members saying that like, she's always going to be a
drug addict, she's always going to be a bad person.
She's always like, uh, never going to be there for me.
And so did you feel like she was a good mom? Well,
(09:56):
I mean I felt like she was um for a
little while. Well and then I really don't know when
it was, but I had like she had to meet
us at a place for like supervised visitation, and I
remember being told that she had to take a drug
test and I remember thinking like that's that's not what
(10:19):
I want as a mom, Like that's not who I
want my mom to be, and that's I didn't really
think she was a good mom at that point. I
did when I was younger, um, but after probably nine
maybe tien um, I started to think that she was
just a junkie and a bad person because that's what
(10:40):
I had been led to believe, and I wasn't really
able to get to know her because I had already
planted in my mind that I didn't want to. Around
this time, about two thousand one, Tammy was trying to
pick up the pieces of her life when she met
another man named Robbie. Their son, Brent, was born in
two thousand three, but that relationship didn't last long. So
(11:05):
I was still in the middle of those becaust the battles,
trying to get trying to get myself together, trying to
do all these things, but I could never quite reach
my um potential. Tammy became more motivated to change things though,
(11:29):
when she met someone else around January two thousand four.
His name was Robert Michael Pool, and he went by Michael.
He seemed like a really nice person. He had his
own place, he had a job as a carpenter, and
we just started talking. And I was single at the time,
(11:54):
so I just thought it was great. I kind of
thought that he was, Oh, here's this guy that's got
it together and I keep messing up. He can help me.
I kind of with him as like my savior. Tammy
was smitten with Michael I just thought that, uh, Mike
(12:18):
was gonna get a little better. Okay, I'm gonna have
this normal life. We're gonna be We're gonna be just fun.
Like Tammy, Michael had three kids. They moved in together,
and things were on the up for their blended family. Yeah. Yeah.
We always talked about our kids and we would take
them places like the river and fishing and things like that. Um,
(12:45):
fun things with the kids. I don't know. We just
we called ourselves the Brady Bunch, the Pool Bunch. Tammy
was finally feeling good in her life, and two thousand
five she went back to school at Appalachian Technical College
to study accounting and business. She eventually pursued a paralegal program,
(13:08):
and it was love for her older brother Danny that
inspired her. He had a lot of run ins with
the police, and I really wanted to keep him out
of jail. So I thought, if I could be a
good attorney, I could keep him out of jail. But
not long after Tammy and Michael got together, things took
a turn. It started with the house they were living in.
(13:30):
It comes found out the house study lived in, he
didn't actually he wasn't actually running that house. It wasn't
actually his house. So after I had moved in there
with him, we um lift and moved in with his sister.
And UM, it was just it was it was little things,
(13:52):
and these were things Michael's ex wife had already tried
to warn her about. She tried to talk to me
one day and and I didn't listen. I I always
thought that it was her fault that they had split up,
and I didn't realize until probably a year later, that, Um,
(14:15):
Michael had some serious problems. Those little things that I liked.
I liked the way he watched me. I like the
way he paid attention. But it kind of turned dark. Um,
if my eyes looked the wrong way, I was accused
of looking at somebody else or um. It was little things,
(14:40):
little things like that. But Tammy says, the little things
at times also turned into physical violence. And then it
was a push and then the harder shove, and so um,
of course I pushed back, and then I left, and
(15:01):
then we got back together, and then I left, and
then we got back together. Timmy says they would follow
the cycle countless times, but of course maybe and me
I would make excuses for him. By two thousand six,
(15:21):
things were really bad between the two. One day they
were driving in the car and got into an argument,
and it took the trouble they were having to a
whole other level. We had a car accident. But the accident, um,
it wasn't really an accident, Like he ran the car
off the road because we were arguing and I had
(15:41):
just buckled my seatbelt because the road that we were
on was just very very curvy, and we hit a tree.
So you think he did it on purpose? Um, No,
he did. He did it on purpose. Um. He said
that he was going to kill us both. Tammy was
(16:06):
lucky she survived, although the accident left her badly injured
with internal bleeding. She would be in a walker for
months after. Still, Tammy and Michael stayed together, but things
continued to deteriorate. Tammy started becoming convinced that Michael was
having some serious mental health issues. We dabbled in Matthews
(16:28):
and I'm not sure. I'm not sure if he did
the wrong kind, if you did too much. It was
like he started going crazy and there was something. It
was odd. Everyone noticed his behavior. His older sister and
(16:48):
I talked about having had committed He had went to
his ex wife's house, tried to get a telephone that
belonged to his dad, this antique telephone, because he thought
he was going to call his ad. The problem is
his dad had been dead for years, so it was
I can't really describe it, and Tammy says, Michael continued
(17:12):
to talk about suicide. He had started doing that so much.
I had taken guns away from him before, and his
little sister had taken got her boyfriend to take a
gun away from him. It just seems to be getting
worse and worse. I didn't know. I didn't know what
to do. He had found out that his sister and
(17:34):
I were talking about putting me in a mental institution,
and he sore that he would he would kill me
to kill her. He would kills both. That he did
not want to go to a mental institution, and I
believe him. The violence at home was bad. We argued constantly.
(17:57):
It was. It was more than I knew how to
deal with. I didn't know how to help him, help myself,
how to convince him that I loved him and that
we were going to be okay. It was it was
a very very dark time. This episode is underwritten by
(18:22):
A I G, a leading global insurance company. A i
G is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making
a positive difference in the lives of its employees and
in the communities where we work and live. In light
of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance and
in recognition of a i g s commitment to criminal
(18:42):
and social justice reform, the a i G Pro Bono
Program provides free legal services and other support to underrepresented
communities and individuals. On the evening of April seven, Tammy
(19:02):
and Michael were again arguing. I found out that he
had been talking to this girl, but it turns out
he was only talking to her about drugs. So we
were arguing. Um, I told him. I told him that
day that, Um, I hope he died, you know. Then
(19:29):
we made up, of course, there's always that makeup period.
Then Shantisy and Christopher left to spend the evening with
their father. Brent also went with his dad. Of course,
after the kids left, we had some you know, makeup
making out, um, and I don't know what happened, like
(19:50):
something snack, um, And then he just got really really
angry and um. Tammy says. This is when Michael went
and grabbed a rifle. I remember I was on the
bed and he pointed the gun at me, and I
(20:14):
got in the fetal position, and I was just saying no, please, no,
no no. And then he pulled me by my ankle
off the end of the bed and he was banging
that the gun. It was a rifle. He was banging
it against his head and it was right there in
(20:37):
front of my face, and and I got up. I
was standing, and he leaned over in front of me,
and so he kept reaching for the trigger and I
had my hands on the end of the barrel, and
I kept thinking, it's gonna shoot me, It's gonna shoot me.
But Michael didn't shoot her. He put his trigger. I'm sorry.
(21:05):
The bullet hit Michael in the left side of his forehead.
I didn't have any idea what to do, um, I
didn't no CPR. I kept trying to get my phone
down on one one. I didn't want to leave them
ahead to go outside to come out one one and
(21:27):
I am. It seemed like it too had been forever
to get there. I don't have any idea how long
was it just seemed like a really long time. An
ambulance finally came and took Michael to the hospital. Tammy
was driven there by a friend from church. At the hospital,
(21:47):
Michael was pronounced dead. Tammy was absolutely distraught, but I
just kept saying, I should have I should have I
should have done something different. Um, I should be nicer.
I shouldn't have said what I said when I told
(22:09):
him that I hope he died. I shouldn't have said that.
When the police came onto the case, they immediately questioned Tammy.
(22:33):
I remember they asked me like a lot of questions.
But I kept thinking that you know, they're gonna know,
They're they're gonna know he shot himself. I mean, they
have to know, right. The police were focusing on the
fact that Tammy's story kept changing. I kept thinking that
I wouldn't have to say anything because my mind at
(22:59):
that time struggling with thinking that it was my fault,
that I should have done something different. Because she felt
guilty for telling Michael she wished he was dead. Tammy
didn't want the police to think it was a suicide.
I kept thinking, Okay, well, if I say that the
(23:24):
gun got caught on a broken laundry basket there, that
the trigger got caught on that then it wasn't my
fault and it wasn't Michael's fault, and everybody can just
live with a tragic accident. And so that's what I
told people. Then my landlord called and said, what happened?
(23:47):
Was he cleaning the gun? And that was the next morning.
And what was I to say? No, he killed himself
because I was a bad wife. Rather than saying that,
I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what happened. I didn't
realize that saying these things was making me look guilty.
(24:10):
I didn't realize that people were watching that every move
I was drowning in my pain. And I don't know.
I don't know what I was thinking. I can't um
I can't describe that. A pathologist, Dr William Oliver, performed
(24:38):
the autopsy on Michael's body and declared that the fatal
shot was not self inflicted. This, along with her changing statements,
solidified the case against Tammy, and just a few months later,
in June two seven, she was arrested for the murder
of Michael Pool. Tammy's trial started on June nine, a
(25:08):
year after Michael's death. Her defense attorney, Richard Thurman, was
actually Michael's cousin by marriage, and if that sounds like
it's weird, it is. The prosecutor was d A. Joe
Hendrix and one of his assistants, Mike Baird. Their case
was straightforward. Tammy was the only one in the room
with Michael she shot him. A firearms examiner from the
(25:32):
Georgia Bureau of Investigation, Christopher Robinson, took the stand. He
said the weapon used was the semi automatic rifle found
in the bedroom Tammy and Michael shared. The prosecutors also
called Dr Oliver, who testified that the gunshot wound was
inflicted not by Michael but by someone else. The prosecution
also used Tammy and Michael's tumultuous relationship, her past run
(25:55):
ins with the law, and her changing story against her.
A woman who had been imprisoned in the same facility
as Tammy testified that Tammy had confessed to her that
she had gotten Michael quote out of the picture in
order to be with someone else. Both of Tammy's kids
were also called to testify against her. I remember them
hounding me with crazy questions like what we had to
(26:19):
eat and what I was doing there the week before
because it was spring break. Things like um did I
see them ever like hit each other or anything like that,
And I just I just didn't think that was a
Those are questions to ask a child. It's like they
were trying to get me to say that they were
(26:42):
physically abusive to each other in front of everybody, or
like they were. They asked me if I had ever
seen them be involved in drugs, and I I was
not prepared to answer that on a stand. At fourteen,
when it came time for Tammy's son, Christopher to take
the witness stand, he said he saw Tammy and my
Michael make up after their fight before leaving with his dad.
(27:03):
Michael's sister testified that she believed Michael would kill Tammy
and then himself, and Michael's brother in law also testified
that Michael had said he would kill himself if the
circumstances did not improve. Defense attorney Thurman also cross examined
the woman who had allegedly heard Tammy confess while she
was in jail. Under cross examination, it came out that
(27:24):
this witness had a motive of her own to sell
Tammy out for perhaps less severe charges for herself, but
the defense did not call any experts to refute the
States expert that Michael's death was not a murder. The
trial was quick, the jury found Tammy guilty, and she
was sentenced to life in prison plus twenty seven years.
(27:50):
This is not happening. This is just this can't be happening.
How did they not know? I didn't realize that. My
lawyers did not think. I didn't realize that, um, there
was no science to it, just one opinion. He assured
me he was going to tell the jury how it happened,
(28:11):
and that never never happened. Timmy lost everything, including her kids.
So did you think your mom did this when it
first happened. I did. After her mother went to prison,
(28:36):
Shannonsy says she felt worthless. I had always been told
that I was just like her, So I started to think, well,
maybe I am. Maybe I just can't be good. Maybe
I don't know any good things to do. So Shannonsy
started running with a bad crowd like her mom had done.
After I turned twenty one, I was really well. After
(28:56):
I turned eighteen is when I moved out and I
was able to, Oh goodness, do really crazy things because
I felt like my whole life was not there, Like
I didn't I didn't have my mom. My relationship with
my dad was not good because of that, and so
I just I kind of felt like a went off
the rails. I guess you could say I started to party,
(29:20):
to drink, being reckless and careless. For years, Shannonsy and
Tammy went without speaking. During that time, Tammy made a
point to work on herself. She got clean from drugs
and sought treatment for her childhood trauma. She started doing
yoga and focusing on spiritual and physical well being. All
the while she also kept working on her case. Tammy
(29:43):
kept thinking, surely, at some point they're going to know. Surely,
at some point somebody will see the truth. Then someone
did see. A pro bono attorney picked up Tammy's cave,
and in two thousand eleven, they filed a motion for
a new trial. At this point, Tammy reached out to
(30:05):
her kids. She let them know she had a court
hearing coming up and she wanted them to attend. And
I remember going, and I remember sitting in that courtroom,
and when I heard everything they were saying, it was
like my mom was blown. All these years, Chantasy thought
(30:26):
her mom was a cold blooded murderer, but now sitting
in the courtroom hearing the evidence. I couldn't fathom the
fact that I was one of the ones that was
against her when there was no possible way she could
have done this everything they were laying out in court,
There was no way. Something was seriously wrong with this case.
(30:48):
And at that moment, I knew that I had to
find out and I had to get her side, and
I had to help her because it wasn't fair, Like
I felt like I had ripped the opportunity from her,
from her telling me the truth because I didn't give
her a chance, because nobody allowed me to really get
the truth from her. They didn't let me see what
(31:11):
really happened. From that moment on, I have believed in
my mom and I will never back down again. In
Tammy's motion was denied, but by she was back in court,
(31:31):
her story was immediately compelling to me. She was an
immediately compelling person. This is Tammy's current lawyer, Brendan Bullard.
He came onto her case in what what was compelling
about her case that made you want to take it for?
You know? Virtually nothing? Well, two things, uh, One, Tammy.
(31:51):
The way Tammy told her story to me, I can't
count the number of murder cases I've handled at this point,
I don't want to think about it that. Uh, it
just it did not jibe with with any of my
past experiences. It just the state's narrative, what what It
just didn't seem to fit, especially after talking to her.
(32:17):
One of the main pieces of evidence for Tammy's innocence
is the results of a gunshot residue test. These results
had actually been presented at the trial. There was no
gunshot residue because typically when you when you fire a gun,
there is microscopic residue that sort of balloons out or
(32:38):
plumes out from from around the gun and it ends
up on your hands, it ends up in your clothes,
and it can be tested for. So there's sort of
one piece of forensic evidence that you would assume should
be there if Tammy fired the shot that is wholly absent.
And Tammy's new team finally has experts that contract to
(33:00):
what the state said at Tammy's trial. At that time,
Dr Oliver, the state's expert, said that there is no
dispute that the fatal shot in Michael's forehead was from
close range. However, for Tammy to have fired a shot
into her husband's head at at at the steep angle
that Dr Oliver proposed, he would have to have been
(33:21):
lying prone. She would have to have been holding the
rifle at his head and pointing towards his body. It's
just hard to him unless he's unless he's shooting him
when he's asleep, and there's no suggestion that that's the case.
The post conviction team brought that testimony to a new expert,
Dr James Downs, who has been a forensic pathologist for
(33:43):
three decades. Dr Down says that the state's expert was
flat out wrong. The bullet didn't go downward as Dr
Oliver had contended, but traveled upward into Michael's head. And
Dr Down's words quote, it's physically impossible for this injury
to happen with a rifle at that angle. But much
(34:04):
more plausible and much more physically possible, is the diagram
of Michael holding shot across his body. His arm is
long enough to reach the trigger pull on the Winchester
to hold the shot against his head. And basically, when
you look at the undeniable forensic evidence of the direction
of the foot, the location of the pieces that rejectile,
(34:26):
and the path of rejectile took through his head. When
you trace that, it just seems obvious because it is
where natural is more plausible. It is the explanation that
best fits all of the data without excluding anything. And then,
in a surprise twist, one of the original States experts
(34:49):
is now on Tammy's side. Christopher Robinson, formerly of the
Georgia Bureau of Investigation, had testified at the trial about
the type of gun that was used. He's now retired
with his own forensic practice, so Tammy's team went back
to him and asked him to evaluate the evidence, something
he had never been asked to do for Tammy's case.
When Chris looked at the evidence, he simply could not
(35:14):
avoid the conclusion that it was that it was a
self inflicted shot and because it was consistent with with
other suicides he's handled. And that's the and that's his
read on the evidence. And you know, his is a
hard opinion to discount. He's willing to come in and say,
look this this is I'm I'm in this because it
(35:34):
is wrong, because the conviction is wrong. And if the
g b I had asked me to look at the
case the way I've since been asked to look the case,
I would have come to the same conclusion. Robinson also
suggested that the gun be tested for DNA. If Tammy
fired the shot, she would have had her hands around
(35:55):
the trigger of the gun, around the butt and the
trigger pull and the trigger guard, and so she would
have likely deposited skin cells there, so that can be
sampled and determined. And at this point what we fully
expect DNA testing the show is that her skin cells
(36:15):
are not there. That they might be saying near the
barrel of the gun or on the barrel gun where
she she moved it, but they weren't near the trigger,
and that Michael's and also that Michael's are Tammy's team
is currently petitioning for the DNA testing. Between the lack
of gunshot residue on Tammy or her clothes and dr
(36:38):
downs and Christopher Robinson's testimonies, plus the potential new DNA evidence, Tammy,
her family and her team are hopeful she will be
granted a new trial and come home. Shannessy says she's
ready to have her mom finally back in her life
and to start their relationship over. So, how is it
(36:59):
now amazing? We talk every day Um, she's my biggest supporter.
Somebody girl. Huh yeah she uh. She does everything she
can to help. She is seriously the strongest woman I
(37:26):
know at this point, Like she hasn't been through so
much and yet she still sees the positive side of everything.
But she she's smart, she's funny. Um, she's dedicated to
her family. Um, she talks to my kids every day
(37:48):
that she calls. And she sent prison. I can't imagine
how how happy I could have been if she would
have been in my life when she was supposed to be,
Like if we would have been able to talk when
I turned eighteen or seventeen or sixteen even, and she
(38:09):
could have told me that I am like, I am
worth it, and I am okay, and I'm not like
anybody else, and she's not like anybody else. And you
can change, you can accept you're past and then change
your future. And when her mom does get out, Shantonsy's
(38:34):
first order of business, We're gonna die her hair. That's
what she wants. She wants me to bring a box
of hair die and die her hair because she's yes, yeah,
so And they were going to go to six Flags
and Lake Winnie and take the kids to Florida, and
I'm gonna be able to go on a date my
(38:55):
fiance because she'll be able to watch my kids and
she'll love it anyway. So it's gonna be amazing. So
when you get out, Tammy, what's like the first things
you want to do? Um? Hug all three of my grandchildren. Um,
(39:19):
maybe just be grateful for every second. Thank you, kiss
the outside ground. If you want to help Tammy, you
can go to change dot org and search Tammy Pool.
There's a petition started by Shannonsy for her freedom. Thank
(39:44):
you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank
Amanda Knox for bringing Tammy's case to our attention and
for joining me on the show today. Starting next week,
Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling is taking a break for
a while, but we'll be back with season two real soon.
In the meantime, don't go anywhere. We've still got lots
of these stories to tell, and you can still catch
(40:05):
Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom every Thursday. See you in
season two. Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with
Maggie Freeling. Please support your local innocence organizations. And go
to the links in our bio to see how you
(40:27):
can help. I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason
Flam and Kevin Wurdis, as well as our senior producer
Annie Chelsea, researcher Lila Robinson, story editor Sonya Paul, with
additional production by Jeff Klaiburne and Connor Hall. The music
in this production is by three time OSCAR nominated composer
Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at
(40:49):
Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on
Twitter at Wrongful Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good.
On all three platforms, you can also follow me both
Instagram and Twitter at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie
Freeling is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in
association with Signal Company Number one h
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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