December 29, 2022 • 55 mins
This is an updated episode that originally aired on September 25, 2017.
On the afternoon of April 15th, 1994, two men were sitting in a powder-blue Cadillac in the Quindaro neighborhood of Kansas City, KS. A man dressed in black ran up to the passenger side, raised a shotgun and fired four rounds in what looked like a drug-related hit, killing the two passengers Doniel Quinn and Donald Ewing. Lamonte McIntyre, who was 17 at the time, was arrested and charged with two counts of first-degree murder. The prosecution relied primarily on the testimonies of two eyewitnesses who identified Lamonte as the shooter. Both eyewitnesses later recanted. Even though there was no physical evidence linking him to the crime, he was found guilty by a jury and sentenced to two consecutive life terms.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
We originally released our interview with Lamon McIntyre on September seventeen.
Since then, a monumental shift has occurred in the dynamic
that resulted with Lamont behind bars and the guy who
deliberately framed him for a crime he didn't commit living
free as a detective for Kansas City, Kansas. It's alleged
(00:25):
that Roger Golupski was notorious in the black community for
using his authority to coerce women into sexual acts in
exchange for leniency, turning a blind eye, or just for
the courtesy of having him not framed them or a
family member. I'm cautiously optimistic about what appears to be
the beginning of some semblance of justice for Grupski and
(00:47):
the good people of Kansas City. Golupski has now been
formally charged in several cases in September for two counts
of sexual assault the same m O as we just mentioned,
and then in November, an indictment was revealed in which
Glupski was alleged to have conspired with a drug kingpin
(01:08):
to run a sex trafficking operation that routinely victimized minors.
Gorupski allegedly shielded the operation from investigation in exchange for
cash and sexual acts from his choice of girls. One
of the victims alleged that Gorupsky choked and raped her
when she was just sixteen years old. Gorupski maintains his innocence,
(01:29):
but if these allegations are true, I hope he burns
in the very real health in which he puts so
many innocent and at risk people. On April fifteenth, Dannielle
Quinn and Donald Ewing were fatally shot while sitting at
a powder blue Cadillac when a man dressed in black
(01:51):
pumped four shotgun rounds into the car. One alleged witness
claimed to have recognized the shooter as an acquaintance, quote unquote,
Lamont something. Another eye witness identified seventeen year old Lamont
McIntyre from a photo lineup. Both witnesses made positive identifications
in court, and despite a total lack of corroborating physical evidence,
(02:13):
this case appeared to be as open and shut as
they come, resulting in two consecutive life prison terms for
Lamont McIntyre. On this episode, we speak with Lamont, a
Pellet attorney, Cheryl Pilot, a former FBI agent and police
corruption expert al Generic as well as Lamont himself from
behind bars to find out how this seemingly righteous prosecution
(02:35):
had actually been corrupted from the very start. This is
wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason flam
(02:56):
Today's episode will make your blood boil and it will
blow your mind. So settle in because this is going
to be a crazy ride. Guilty one word ceiling Lamont
McIntyre's fate. Lamont McIntyre, aged seventeen and nine, has so
far been imprisoned for twenty two years. Twenty two years ago,
(03:16):
two young men, twenty one year old Don Yell Quinn
and his thirty four year old cousin Donald Ewing, were
gunned down in a horrible double homicide. Six hours after
the murders, police arrested McIntyre, but never searched his house
for evidence. Moreover, it was a trial which prosecutors offered
no physical evidence tying McIntyre to the crime, no motive,
(03:37):
no connection between him and the victims, no weapon, no fingerprints,
nor did Kansas City Campus believe even request search warrants
to find any of that material. A retired officer who
reviewed the case calls the investigation grossly deficient. Most notable
is that the family of the victims for twenty two
years have steadfastly insisted that he is innocent. Other witnesses,
(04:01):
also relatives of the victim, insisted as soon as they
saw McIntyre sitting at the defense table, they knew he
was not the shooter. They told the prosecutor, but were ignored.
One family member has signed and Affidavid claiming that under
pressure from police and the prosecutor, she lied at McIntyre's trial.
We're the first time a jury is speaking publicly about
the case. Greg Lover says that he now believes that
(04:22):
Wyandotte County jury was wrong. They didn't care about anything.
They just had their man and it was enough for
the twelve person jury. In deliberations, Loudber says he and
another juror were holdouts, but it was late in the
day and there was mounting pressure from others who wanted
a verdict. Maybe I had an opportunity to, you know,
do something good on that jury, but I sure didn't
(04:43):
do it. I took a coward's way out. It is
the speedy investigation and prosecution of that crime in this
place that a team of exonerators now insist was also
the focus of a terrible injustice. Lt. McIntyre, aged seventeen
and nine, has so far been imprisoned for twenty two years,
convicted and given two consecutive life sentences for a crime
(05:04):
they say you never commit. Well, I'm just gonna say
I'm really happy that today joining us to discuss the
insane case of Lamont McIntyre. We have with us Lamont's attorney,
Cheryl Pilot, as well as retired FBI Special Agent Al
gener Rich. Cheryl and Al, thank you for being here.
(05:26):
Thank you so much. We're glad to be here, happy
to be here, and we will be hearing later on
in the episode from Lamont, who will be calling in
from president in Kansas, where he has been incarcerated for
approximately twenty four years now since he was a teenager
for a crime that he did not commit. Now, let's
go back to the beginning. On April there are two
(05:50):
men sitting in a Cadillac in Kansas City, Kansas, when
they were approached by a man with a shotgun. These
facts are not in dispute right and what we know
is that war shots were fired into the car, killing
the passenger Don yelle Quinn instantly and the driver, Donald Ewing,
who died later in the hospital. And amazingly, within six hours,
(06:12):
they managed to find a guy who had nothing to
do with the crime, Lamont McIntyre, who was seventeen at
the time, and he was arrested and charged with two
counts of first degree murder in spite of a total
lack of any physical evidence connecting him to the crime.
How did this happen? Cheryl? And I'll jump in whenever
(06:32):
you want. Lamont was arrested and prosecuted after police obtained
three interviews from eyewitnesses, one of them never testified, but
the taped interviews of these eyewitnesses in a very serious
crime obviously where someone can go to prison for the
rest of their life, amounted to a total of twenty
(06:55):
taped minutes, and one of the eyewitness is was only
interviewed for four minutes. Is that an investigation? What is that?
So all? You've done a lot of research and you
were in the FBI for quite a while, Is that right?
I was in the FBI for twenty five years. I
was a special agent. I specialized in investigating police corruption.
(07:19):
I worked in Chicago very successfully, and then in Kansas City, Kansas.
Agent Jenner was not involved with this murder case at
all when it happened. I knew Mr Jenner Rich through
other cases and after he retired a number of years
after he retired, actually and I was working on trying
(07:39):
to achieve Lamont's exoneration, I approached him to talk to
him about the Kansas City, Kansas Police Department and things
that I had uncovered in my investigation. And it was
at that point that Alan I started talking about some
of the things he had learned while working for the FBI,
(08:01):
and they, you know, matched up with some of the
things I had uncovered in my investigation. And it was
because of that that he became a witness in this
case that I hope to use at our hearing. So,
prior to la Month's arrest, can we talk about what
was happening with this particular cop whose name was Roger Globski.
(08:25):
Sometime around or so, I was able to open an
investigation into police corruption in Kansas City, Kansas. And as
the investigation went on over time, over many years, we
developed maybe somewhere between twelve and fifteen police officers who
were titled subjects of the investigation. Some of it involved
(08:47):
civil rights, like beating people up, stealing their shoes when
they were walking down the street because the officer like
the shoes, or in the case of Glupski, you know,
sexual extortion. But most of it involved corruption involving drugs,
mostly cocaine. And in the course of this investigation, just
by talking to people, which is when I'm pretty good
at over time, you know, a number of people told
(09:11):
us about Grupski extorting sex from black women and he
liked black women. We never developed enough evidence on on
Glupski to prosecute him. That's the extent of my knowledge
about Grupski. I always believe that that police were good,
and the police were on our side and they're there
to protect us all and so I always find these stories,
(09:34):
even as long as I've been working on this issue,
and I've got twenty five years now of experience, but
I always find these stories so just depressing and shocking,
and it flips everything upside down. Well, like you, I
was very naive until I went to Chicago and then
I saw police corruption on the mass of scale. But
(09:55):
then when I got back to Kansas City in six
and it's probably got involved in Kansas City, Kansas. You know,
I saw the same activity. There wasn't on the grand scale.
You know that it's that it's conducted in Chicago. It's
basically police officers, most of whom are white, picking on minorities,
(10:15):
most of whom are black, some of them are Hispanic.
Because when you're a drug dealer, you know, you can't
go to the police the FBI and say, hey, these
cops are stealing my drugs, these cops are stealing my
drug money. You basically have to you have to suck
it up. So that's what they do in Chicago. That's
what they do everywhere. So Lamont his troubles really began
(10:39):
when his mom was at a car with I guess
was her boyfriend at the time, Cheryl Right. Glubski approached
the car and told her to get out and threatened
her with arrest or arrest of her boyfriend unless she
agreed to come down to the police station. And then
the problems really began when she refused to become one
(11:02):
of his girls so to speak. Right, I mean, obviously
she was in a terrible situation where she's very vulnerable,
not able to defend herself from a cop who's willing
to go to almost any lanes to fulfill his desires.
She had a tremendous problem, and she decided that she
wanted to maintain her dignity, really right, And so what
(11:25):
seems like happen is that as a consequence, Gloobski decided
that he would target and frame her son. And something
that is so evil that, you know, makes me want
to quit the human race. There was an encounter that
Lamont's mother had with the detective some years earlier. I
mean it was years actually before the double homicide happened.
(11:49):
And at the time of the double homicide, my client
was inexplicably dragged into the case. One of the eyewitnesses
told the police she thought the shooter looked like a
Lament dating her niece. Police never bothered to find out
what Lamont that was. They don't go ask the niece
what Lamont that was. They simply put another Lament and
(12:12):
it's undisputed, an entirely different Lamont my client into the
case and somehow obtain this identification. What's interesting about the lineup,
and I've never seen anything like this before, is three
of the five photos were of young male members of
the MC entire family. You don't have to be a
(12:34):
conspiracy theorist to say, well, that doesn't make a lot
of sense. What it's one perpetrator. It's not like that
somebody said there were three brothers that were involved. It's
one perpetrator, you know. And then the justice system we
know as a tendency to chew people up and spit
them out when they are poor, particularly if they're minorities
(12:57):
and underrepresented. It's really it's not a fair fight, is it. Well,
I mean, this, this whole thing um was an impossible
battle for Lamont to begin with. I mean, first of all,
the investigation itself, I don't think really qualified is is
a true investigation because so little was done. No evidence
(13:20):
of motive was ever uncovered. There was no physical evidence
that tied Lamont to the crime. There was not even
any evidence that he knew the two victims, their backgrounds,
of the two victims, and who might have a motive
to harm them. That was never investigated. There was an
eyewitness directly across the street who was never interviewed, whose
(13:41):
whose mother said, you know, she she knows who the
suspect is. I mean, the the failures and lapses and
irregularities in this case just go on and on. I mean,
other than the twenty minutes of taped interviews from the eyewitnesses,
there was very little else and the only evidence at
trial against Lamont were two eyewitnesses. One of them has
(14:06):
admitted that she lied, that she was coerced. The other
eyewitness seems frankly, very perplexed by her testimony, and it's
it's very clear that it's an eye witness a misidentification
based on manipulation. And we know also that had this
trial taken place twenty years later or so, with everything
(14:28):
that's known now about the unreliability of eyewitness identification, there's
a very good chance that that would have been discredited
because there was no other evidence connecting to the crime.
You take a person who's traumatized, who has just witnessed
a really horrific event, and they can be pretty easy
to pressure or manipulate. And in fact, this witness provided
(14:50):
in a tape statement my client's last name, a man
she did not know and had never heard of, which
raises the very interesting question of who gave her the name.
It was disputed at trial that she did not know
my client. Yet the fact that there was an original
tape statement where she provided his name never came out.
(15:10):
That was never admitted at trial. She also stated wrongly
that my client was the Lamont who had dated her niece.
At trial undisputed that that was not true. It was
an entirely different Lamont who was in fact identified by
his name to the jury, an entirely different person. So,
I mean, the whole thing is is troubling beginning to end,
(15:32):
really a perfect storm of chaos and horror and misconduct,
things being done improperly. So you have this cop in
this department that is so corrupt isn't even the right word,
but that's engaged in so many legal activities. And isn't
(15:53):
it ironic and tragic that Lamont is in prison living
in hell after twenty four years and this this cop
who was from what I've read, raping people, robbing people,
dealing drugs, protecting drug dealers, he's out. How How is that?
I mean, that must not not sit well with you,
(16:15):
with your whole background either. What I'm really hoping for,
what our entire team is hoping for, and what we
have sought for a long time, is a very full
investigation into the activities of this detective. There needs to
be an investigation by people who have the power to
(16:36):
follow all the leads, develop information, compel the testimony of witnesses,
and obtain other evidence. Let me let me turn it
to you for a second, because we have not had
somebody with your background and experience on the show before,
and I would venture to say that you had a
(16:57):
very very difficult and dangerous job right investigating cops. Particularly
when you're investigating cops, we've got a lot to hide,
makes you a very unpopular person, I would think, so,
looking back on it, how did this manage to go
on for so long without somebody coming along and saying, uh,
(17:21):
you know, besides you, hey, hey, we're not going to
tolerate this. They don't give a ship. At the time
we were doing these investigations, the police chief of Kansas City, Kansas,
a guy named Tom Daily. He had previously been indicted
by the Federal Strike Force for extorting money at a
whorehouses along the kar River in Kansas. He was doing
(17:42):
that allegedly when it was a captain. He was acquitted
because it was a real weak case. But after being
an acquitted for extortion, the city wound up eventually making
him the chief is that the actions you know, of
a responsible a city administration or a police department. So
he had the chief over here, Tom Dale. He had
(18:02):
previously been indicted by the FEDS. He despised the federal government.
He hated the U. S. Attorney's Office and UH and
the FBI. And he's the chief. He was part of it.
So you have this guy Golubski, who, in that scenario
is operating basically with impunity, right because he knows his
(18:23):
chief doesn't give a ship. And with the chief having
literally what it sounds like, gotten away with that particular
pattern of activity as well as I'm sure other things
that he was doing. The people underneath them are probably thinking, hey,
this is great, no one's going to touch us, and
they're right, and nobody did. So how frustrated was that
(18:44):
for you? There? You are really fighting an unwinnable war,
right You're you're there trying to protect the public from
the police force. Were the chief of police who not
only doesn't give a fuck, but doesn't want that He
wants you. He probably wants you to funk out of
his hair so he could just you know, run the
streets how he wants to write. When I started working
over there. You had a person, you know, some guy
(19:07):
I knew, had a lot of people in the county jail,
and they would say so and so confronted me and
stole my money, stole my drugs. You go, what, what's
the CoP's name? I don't know his name. You know
what's he looked like? Well, you know he's some white guy.
Well you go to the police. The police did not
have photographs of their police officers, So if a victim
(19:27):
came in there alleging that so and so officer robbed
from me, extorted me, they didn't even have photographs to
show people so they could identify who the police officer was.
So good luck, you know, through the U. S. Attorney's Office,
through UH Julie Robinson, who was a prosecutor at the time,
we subpoenaed photographs of every sworn officer in the Kansas City,
(19:50):
Kansas Police Department, and there was how to pay for that.
I was almost removed from the investigation because of that.
You know, I think one of the problems is that
other law enforcement officers don't want to investigate law enforcement
and as a general rule, I think they find it
distasteful something they would rather avoid and there is a
(20:13):
tendency to minimize misconduct. I found that really pretty shocking,
not in light of everything else we're talking about, but
I can see how you would, and it's it really
gets easier and easier to see how these wrongful convictions
are so common. I mean, here we have an interesting situation, right,
We're talking to Al, who's in there with his badge
(20:35):
working for the Federal Beer of Investigation and basically being
told go fund himself. So what chance does a seventeen
year old black kid from the poorer side of town,
what chance does he have against this blue wall, this
blue monster that was out to get him. He had
(20:56):
no chance. So now fast forward to twenty four years later,
Lamont sits in a prison studying reading. By all accounts,
a model prisoner, somebody who maintains a positive outlook in
spite of this. You know what can only be described
as the worst faith that can be fall an individual
(21:20):
to be cars rave or something he didn't do for
the rest of your life. But now we have hope, right,
I mean, he has hope thanks to you and the
years of work that you've done in this case and
Al and other brave people who have devoted their time
and in some cases probably even risk their own personal
safety to try to get justice in this case. What
does it look like now? What happens next? Tell us
(21:41):
what's going on. We have a evidentiary hearing coming up
in October and we intend to present somewhere between forty
and fifty witnesses who provide very powerful testimony on various
aspects of the case. Was almost nothing really to support
(22:02):
the conviction to begin with, nothing other than the testimony
of the two eye witnesses, and I believe that has
been thoroughly shredded at this point through recantations and admissions
and the result of other investigation. And we are also
focusing on the very troubling misconduct in the case. It
(22:24):
is intimately connected to how the investigation was conducted, and
we're going to bring all that out and show how
we believe this went wrong, and we very much hope
to be successful. What's the date of the hearing October twelfth.
October twelfth, And is this in a federal court. We
(22:46):
are in Windout County District Court, which is a state court.
My client is litigating what's called a successive petition under
sixty fIF seven and you have essentially a procedural barrier
to get over before you can get back into court.
But we do have this evidentiary hearing schedule that we
are very very excited about. One of the most compelling
(23:08):
things about the case we haven't mentioned this yet, is
that the families of both victims have always known my
client is innocent and are very much squarely supporting the
quest to free him. They know that they did not
get justice, their families did not get justice, and that cheryld.
In your experience, that's not a common thing, right, I mean,
(23:30):
most of the cases I've seen, even in the face
of what could be overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the
victims families sometimes stick with what they've been told all
along because they just can't. They can't even process the
idea that they may have been lied to and that
the wrong person may have been serving time for the
for the murder of their loved one. So in this case,
this is a very unusual scenario, isn't it It is?
(23:51):
And one of the eyewitnesses is related to both of
the victims, and she her family in the family of
the second victim, to whom she's a bit more distantly related,
have always told me that they have known from the
beginning that the authorities got the wrong man. They have
(24:12):
always known this. They've made periodic efforts to correct this,
to address this, to try and get some justice, all
without success. And if there wasn't already enough to chew on,
this is the part that really just sets me off,
his courter pointed. Attorney Gary Long was on supervised probation
(24:33):
at the time of the trial for failing to diligently
handle three prior cases. He was suspended from the bar
a couple of years later for failure to adequately hinder
a separate criminal case, and he was this bar. How
is it even possible that, in a life or death
situation that you take somebody and you say, you know what,
(24:54):
we're going to give you a lawyer who's already messed
up three times when I said nobody gives a ship.
Do you understand what I mean? Do you know that
that you know that Tara Moore had you know she's
now a federal prosecutor. Yes, So Tara Moorehead was the
prosecutor in this case. Obviously didn't see anything wrong with
(25:16):
her prosecuting a case in which a young man's life
was at stake in front of a judge with whom
she had carried on an affair a few years earlier.
I think most reasonable people would agree that one or
the other should have been recused from this particular scenario,
(25:37):
because even if they were saints, and obviously they weren't,
because she's also the same woman from what I've read,
who threatened a witness who tried to come forward with
the truth with losing custody of her own children. But yes,
and now she's moved up the ladder. Seems like all
the bad guys have won here. Al what the fuck? Well?
(25:59):
I think are more heads currently married to a police officer.
I think there's some other prosecutors over in the federal U. S.
Attorney's Office that are married to other police officers. So
you're not going to expect them to investigate police corruption,
are you? Well? I guess that would make it tricky,
wouldn't it. They're not going to do it, and they don't.
I mean, there there's so much that could be investigated
(26:22):
that ought to be investigated, and you know, I I
should also point out that sexual misconduct among police officers
is not unusual in some departments. When you have poor
and vulnerable people encounter folks with ultimate authority over them,
ultimate authority in that particular moment. You know, those things
(26:46):
can happen all too easily, and they do, and they
happen frequently. You know, when I was in age, and
I'm about six ft four, I had a gun, a
badge and radio and everything. At nighttime when I was
on my way home or on the weekends, I would
not drive to Kansas City, Kansas, unless I was accompanied
by another FBI agent. Thought they might have run you
(27:07):
off the road or something else. They could do anything.
They could pull me over and not saying they don't
know who I was, and they could say, pulled a
gun and they could shoot me. So I have all
that power and authority. What is some little black kid
on the street half. I hope that in exposing the
story of Lamont and some of the things that you've
shared out that people, you know, get their backs up
(27:30):
and get get angry and get involved. These are just people,
They're just regular people, and they're they're being so terribly
abused and victimized by people who are supposed to protect them.
I I don't it makes me sick. I just say
that the fear and the terror that some of the
citizens experience cannot be overstated. I mean, you have someone
(27:53):
with a badge with ultimate and really, as I said
in that moment, unchecked authority, is enormous fear of the
police and enormous, sometimes unmovable resistance to getting involved in
anything that has to do with the criminal justice system.
I've spent some years, honestly just earning the trust of
(28:17):
some people in the community so that they will sit
down and speak with me so that we can investigate
the case. Nobody wants anything to do with a case
you say, courthouse people walk the other way. They don't
want anything to do with that. And ultimately we have
been successful in securing some very good witnesses because they
(28:40):
did want to help someone they've viewed as innocent. And
you know, I should point out here that all of
the street talk we have ever heard in the community
is that Lamont is innocent, the guy who got wrongfully convicted.
It's like everyone knows, the whole community knows. The victims
family leads no. Everyone knows Lamont did not do this.
(29:05):
Everyone knows. You have a prepaid call from an innate
at Kansas Department of Corrections Lansing Correctional Facility. To accept
(29:27):
this call, press or say five to refuse. This call
will be recorded and subject to monitoring. At any time.
You may begin speaking now, Lamont, welcome to the show. So, Lamont,
I want to go back to the beginning, when you
grew up and how this all started. I've seen photos
(29:50):
of you with your family. Looked like you had not
an easy but a happy childhood. Is that fair? Can
you just describe what it was like. I've heard you
talk about Christmas and stuff. Uh. Yeah, we was tightened it,
you know. I was like my mother was just only
paying in the house and it was close me and
my siblings, and we did everything together. We stayed in
one house, you know, we to carry of each other.
(30:12):
So glowing off of me was my family was a
big day. Didn't really bite about a lot of stuff.
And I was me and my three brothers and my sister.
My was a sister. My mother worked a lot, so
my sister kind of watched that. There was a little
bit some other family members liked to go with my
family member's house uncles and be around them. Our mother
(30:34):
was at work. I kind of still stayed around family
I sat at my home, so real, family oriented and
where you grew up. You had no idea at this
time that the police force was really as corrupt as
anyone could possibly imagine until this terrible incident occurred. And
(30:55):
I want to go back to that. What happened. You
were a setvent teen year old kid going along with
your life, trying to make it in a difficult place,
and then one day out of the blue, you get
arrested and don't even know what's going on or what happened. Uh,
that's exactly what happened. And I was it was a
(31:15):
typical day. It was like a Friday, typical day. I
was in Rode in a Downey Common program where it's
all time of school when they wu help you get
your high school to phone, and then that gets you
in uh college, so like a little degree program as
a part of and um, it was just a Friday.
I get a call phone call saying the police over
(31:38):
my grandmother's house looking for me. Called my mother. We
go to the police station and they started talking about
two murders. And I had no answers for him because
I don't know if they were saying what they were
talking about. So from that moment I was arrested, charged
and uh eventually convicted of two murders. Then I had
(31:59):
in the way what about And we know now that
they were deliberately targeting you because of this particular police
officer who was up to all kinds of criminal activity himself.
And that's the irony of this is that he belongs
in jail, and I'm hoping that by the end of
(32:21):
this that's exactly what's going to happen. But the idea
that this system, this so called justice system, had made
a decision that you were going to be there. Guy,
there was this double murder, right, two guys sitting in
a car. They were involved in drug activity. They were dealers.
We now know also that one of them had been
(32:42):
beaten by the guys he was working for in the
drug business. Right, he was working as a doorman in
a crack then, and he had feared for his life,
and in fact he had good reason to because I
guess he had from what I've learned he has been
he had been stealing from them, so that every reason
and to know that this was a drug hit, and
(33:04):
you weren't involved in that game or that business. Did
you know these guys. I didn't know the witnesses, I
don't know the victims that I would have connected to
it at all. That's why I so it's so hard
for me to understand how something that could happen because
and I was forward about everything. I don't try to
hide nothing because I knew that what they were talking
(33:25):
about that time, I had nothing to do with it.
I would involved. I don't know what the police officer's
motive was to plan it on meal. I still don't
know to this day what happened. Well, it does seem
like now with everything we've learned that the officer involved,
the first one who arrived on the scene was an
officer named Glubski. It's a white guy who had a
(33:47):
proclivity for women of color and when he didn't get
his way, he would exact revenge. And so what it
seems like is that in this particular case, he targeted
you be because your mom wasn't having any part of that.
And that's what makes this particularly sinister and sick. You
end up going to trial, and I find it interesting,
(34:11):
among all the other things in your case, that they
offers you a plea bargain right and you didn't take it.
I wouldn't the rest of the plea bargain. I can't
understand how I sit in this situation, and I hadn't
know nothing about the time itself. Sole bargains. Far from
my mom I was, and why I find that and
why I brought that up, Lemon, And I've seen the
(34:31):
mugshot picture of you, and it really hurt my heart
because I could see in your face just how confused
you were and scared of a situation that you couldn't
possibly imagine what was happening at that time. I also
would think that if you were guilty and they're offering
you a deal and you know your chances of winning
(34:53):
in the court are going to be low because they
have all these cops and everybody else is going to testify,
I guess you would have taken the plea bar and
anybody with the right mind would take a plea bargain.
You're not crazy, are you right? You don't You don't
sound crazy. You don't sound crazy at all. So in
the situation like this, I mean, we have in this
country over cases end up in plea bargains. So had
(35:13):
you been guilty, that would have been a very logical
thing to do. But as an innocent person and probably
somebody who still trusted in the system, you went forward
with your right to a trial, and you were represented
by a guy who they knew your court appointed lawyer.
They knew this guy was incompetent because he had already
been disciplined for three previous cases that he had completely botched.
(35:35):
It almost sounds like they did it on purpose. They
assigned a guy who didn't go and interview witnesses, who
didn't really didn't do anything he was supposed to do.
And what was that like? Were you aware at that
time that this guy wasn't I mean, I don't even
know if it was really on your side, but I mean,
as you're watching these proceedings, what were you thinking? Like
(35:57):
a lawyer? He presented itself like a person is there
on my behind to take care of this business, and
he's seeing real professional at first, So I didn't know
what to expect because I've never been in that situation
before anyway, So his first impression was for me, it
was a good impression because I didn't know what a
lawyer was supposed to do. I was so ignorant to
(36:18):
the law and our thing work. I just believed in
the justice system at that time. I really did. I
thought there was no possible way, being an innocent person
or person that has nothing to do with that crime,
that I would be found guilty. So I don't really
pay too much attention to the credibility of this lawyer.
It didn't die on me that I would be found
guilty of the crime that I had nothing to do
(36:38):
with it. So I didn't really think about it in
those times. I was just thinking, you can't give me
any lawyer, anybody from anywhere, and it'll be okay because
once they realized they had the wrong person to get
ironed out and trial, That's what I was thinking. But
I didn't plan all how to think that people would
get on the stand and line. It was on fabricade,
and I didn't think that was gonna happen. I had
(36:58):
no idea that they had already made up in their
mind and I was going to escape God for this
particular crime. So definitely being needed at a law and
have these work in the justice system. I believe in
the justice system at that time. I really did. I
think all of us do when we're kids, especially brought
up in a good home like you were. You brought
up to believe that people are good and that the
(37:20):
system is is going to work for you, and then
you had a lawyer who, had he been competent, I
still think would have one your case in spite of
all this, because of the simple fact that it was
an easy case. The witnesses were not credible at all.
We now know that they also withheld exculpatory evidence, So
(37:42):
you really didn't have a fair chance, especially not with
a lawyer who was incompetent. And ultimately, let's not forget
that this particular lawyer was disbarred not too long after
your trial. And again for the listeners out there, think
about that, this is a guy who had been disciplined
in new merce cases prior to laments and then ultimately
(38:04):
gets disbarred when the extent of his gross incompetence is
brought to the Supreme Court of Kansas, the attention to
the Supreme Court, and then he voluntarily gave up his
license to practice law. And that wasn't the end of
the nightmare. We now know too that your appellate lawyer
was disbarred. I mean, you can't even make this stuff up.
(38:26):
So what happened like now you're in the courtroom, the
jury goes out, the arguments have been made. You saw
these witnesses get up and lie. You saw these police
officers get up and lie. Your defense made whatever arguments
they made. Did you believe that they would come back
and declare you innocent? I did. I did five of
(38:49):
them up being I did. I just didn't know that
this is how to sit them work. They found me
guilty based all all evidence, for the kind of evidence
by a certain as your attorney. They heard stuff about me.
There wasn't even about Lemar Magnetize, and she just kind
of made self up. They told his story, and the
jury believed. But at the time before they came back
(39:10):
with a guilty Birdie, I still didn't think I'll be
found guilty because the whole time I'm sitting there, in
the whole time I'm going through the process of getting
to trial, I still had no knowledge of the actual crime.
So I'm thinking, with my young mind being naive, that
there's no way a jury can finally guilty when I'm
really not guilty, when I had nothing to do with it.
I'm not tied to it at all. The witnesses, the
(39:34):
victims I'm not tied to it. I was in the
area when it happened. When they came in, I noticed
that no juries, no one looked me in my face,
no one looked looked up. Everyone came in looking down
at the floor. So I kind of had an eerie feeling,
but I still had hope that it will work out
in the right way. So when they read the verdict
(39:54):
and they said guilty, it's like I've seen my whole
life flash before me and I and for that moment,
I fosed and I was sitting there and I stood up,
and I remember saying something. I was screaming something, you know,
to the effects of I'm not guilty, and you got
the wrong person whatever. And I felt someone holding me
or wrapping me from behind, and I wasn't shot, so
(40:16):
I didn't really I was like a lost moment. But
I turned around and I see my mother hold me, screaming,
crying like don't take my baby away from me, don't
take my baby. And I'm looking at her and I
realized that this is a serious situation now, but it
still didn't feel real. It was my life in my situation,
but it didn't feel like my life in my situation.
(40:37):
I felt like I was outside of myself looking at
this event happened. I couldn't stop it. So I wasn't
shot and that shot lasted for a few years after
that I was in shot. So now now you're convicted
of a double murder and sentence to life in prison?
Where did they take you to the processes? Like? From
this time you get them victed Standing County for about
(40:58):
two months, then you go to citizen Now the how
cinis in Wanna County. They gave me to life sentences
to ron consecutive. You never that. They sent me to
a process of center which we call RDU, where they
see you to determine what classification you would be, what
custody you would be in. I was considered max custody.
(41:19):
So from there they sent me to prison other than us.
That's a that's a prison in Kansas they called Glady
in the school, one of those tough prisons. You know, people,
you know, it's a prison. It's like the work not
did you have a prison? Is that more? Is this dark?
Is negative? This pension feel he's hopelessness. It's a world
(41:44):
that is all I was just seventeen year old. Did
you have plans. Did you have a career mind, what
was the outlook for the future. We're still just trying
to figure it out. Yeah, I wasthing I wanted to do,
(42:05):
and it was just I was I was been gude
in the line, and I was just in a place
where everybody around me was either dine or going to
jail or I was just in the kind of remindment.
It didn't produce a lot of hope. I didn't have.
I didn't have a lot of people to look up
to or emula, nothing like that. But I did enjoy
taking care of my family. So my life was just
(42:26):
basically about trying to take care of my family the
best way I know how, or to look out for
my loved ones. You know, I had skills and things
I could do, Like I was a barber, I was
cutting hair since I was twelve. You know, I was
comedian and I had these in the back of my mind.
I wanted to be a comedian and I had things
I wanted to do. I just didn't know how to
get to where I wanted to be. But I still
(42:49):
didn't think that my life was of being in prison
or going to jail, being in this kind of situation.
What is a typical day like for you on the inside?
How do you get through to it? What's the schedule? Uh,
typical day. Typical day is re readjusted. It's like from
Hunt day to the nexus. Finding a way to get
(43:12):
by for one day, a line something for my days,
and then I just try to it just sucks. I
gotta repeat it like if I have a bad day
or I'm frustrated for one day, I'm going to sleep,
wake up to repeat this day again. So I try
to find the best I can or get the best
I can out of a day, because waking up to
repeat it is the anxiety. That's where all that the
(43:33):
worst stuff is knowing of it. For the last twenty
three years and two huntres some months and they have
a on a weeks and eight thousand days. It's the
same thing. It never changes. So I devote my time
to read it and studying and write like music right, poetry,
trying to keep my mind free as possible. I try
(43:54):
to stay out of prison mentionally. I tried out to.
I'm not into prison politics, I'm not in prison mentally,
but I'm here. I had to be my body here.
But I try to keep my mind far from this
places i can, so it's just a bunch of moments
of readjusting every day. And I have a lot of
love people that love me and care about me, so
I'll focus on that. But it's bad. It used to
(44:16):
be a lot worse than it is. Now. I'm starting
to see I'm coming alive now because I can see
a light at the end of this dark tundle. I've
been there for so long, so I'm better now. But yeah,
it wasn't so good before. It's better now. But it
was always sad to wake up. I had to repeat
this same cycle over and over again. That stuff is
another drive of person crazy. There's a lot of moments
where I felt like it's the point, you know, to
(44:39):
keep going to wake up every day that I had
to deal with the exact same nightmare you're trying to
escape from the night before. But I had my mother,
like she never gave up on me from day one.
Like when the worst moments of my life, you know,
I felt like I just couldn't do it no more
so that I couldn't take another step. She would show
up and when she would grab me and hold me
and looked at my face of mean, this is not
(45:00):
my life. I passed through, this is not my destination.
And so I had a lot of support my family
and and I gave my life to God and I
pray a lot of meditate a lot. So initially I
was kind of in this dark place where I was
so hurt and sad and depressed, and so I kept
(45:25):
people kept coming to my life. There was like beacons
of light and hope for me and I and I
and I thank God for all those people came into
my life and supported me, and they short it up.
I always have something to look forward to, because this
is a dark place. It's a dark situation where if
you don't have enough support. For me, it was just supporting.
I found it supportant. Then years later Sheryl and to
(45:48):
turn our ministries and innocent projects, they kept start coming
into my life and they breathe, uh, they breathe license
to me, it's like my second wind. And I'm grateful
for those people. Everybody was for me and everybody who
put forth effort, go out every day and do something
to help me get my life back. I'm, however, grateful
(46:09):
for those people. If you're even allow yourself, if you
allow your mind to go there. What are you dreaming
about when you get out? Because I'm convinced you are
going to come home and I'm gonna be there fighting
right alongside with everybody else. What's the first thing you
want to do? And then how do you see the
future The first day I'm gonna do with eat something.
(46:31):
That's what I fantasized about. Mostly, I want to eat
something that is there. From there, I want to have
some type of impact or effect on young people making
poor decisions. It was eventively uh landed in a situation
like this, you know. So I want to just raise
any kind of awareness I can about decision making because
you know, had I've been told how to make better
(46:53):
decisions to myself. I think even no I was even
to the law and this is something that had nothing
to do with me, and uh that I still gonna
been making better insist myself before this stuff even came about.
So I don't want to be able to be there
for young people as much as I can. So I
can I can help them understand that even though you
don't do something wrong, even though you don't commit a crime,
(47:14):
you can be you still got to be accountable and
you still got to be a mindful of the fact
that you're out there floating around and you can easily
be put in a situation like that, and if you're
not being productive and doing something this uh productive out
their life. So I just want to be able to
reach the young people as much as I can, and
now that there's that to be young, just anybody, I
don't want to be able to share my experience and
(47:37):
hopefully in all help out in any kind of way.
I'm sure that you will do that, and then you're
gonna have a very positive impact on a lot of
people because you have a very rare combination of intelligence
and a manner that is so positive and strong but
still gentle that I believe that you'll be able to
affect a lot of a lot of young people, and
(47:58):
I'm looking forward to watching you do that. There's one
other thing I wanted to raise. I'm always amazed when
I speak to someone in your situation, and especially so
with you, that you don't seem to be bitter after
everything that's happened. And I know you talked about your
faith and family and the strength that you get from
(48:20):
from them, But how is it possible that someone can
go through this most unimaginable nightmare, still be in it
and yet be as positive and strong as you are now. Well,
I had my moments with anger. Books You've always like
taking point and hoping someone else died from it. I
(48:40):
would only want to affect about me being angry. No
one else seeing the notice of attention to me being angry.
So how is this a learning experience? Like being angry
doesn't help me? So I didn't want to help myself
because I know I always knew I was gonna be
here forever. I know that basically the truth was surface
and I would have a life outside of it. Oh,
so I devoted a lot of time and energy towards
(49:03):
helping myself, and I hurt myself. So being angry was
something that was a hinterest to me, not a benefit.
So I try to say positive because these places you
got to keep up with a seven take care of yourself,
and anger and stress and all those things is just
short in your life span, and I got to like
to live. So I just choose. I choose to be positive.
(49:25):
I choose to not be angry and allow anger to
kill me. I don't want to die in this place,
and I don't want to have a short life. So
I stick firm to what I believe in, and I
believe in my faith, and I believe in meditation, I
believe in exercise. I'm believing to take care of my mom,
body and soul. And that's another to vote my time too. Wow. Um,
(49:46):
all I can do is tell you that you have
you have all my respect and support. And I was saying, then,
you know, I've seen too many miracles to stop believing
in miracles. So I'm excited to watch you be the
next one or one of the next ones, and we'll
never stop fighting for you and for other people in
(50:08):
your situation. I'm looking forward to a positive outcome and
to getting to know you on the outside the mind.
I'm just going to turn it over to you and
say it is your microphone. What do you want to
share with the audience? Well, these these kind of cases
having or more than they should, you know. So it's
like I always see on TV or day line, we
(50:31):
see anything man so many years in prison didn't get exonerated,
and you see this happened time and time again. But
what you never ever see a hairy here about how
much that stuff impact the effect of the families, but
those people like I had a post knit family. We
was close and it was a thing. This is not
just like me being affected by it, invent it happened
(50:51):
in my life. It hurts me to see how much
how much it affected not only me, was my family.
And it's difficult because if theF a man had to
go through a certain thing by himself, that's a that's
his life, that's his his path and life. He got
to go through that. I had to do what I
had to do, no matter what. But when you see
someone you care about being affected about what you had
to do or what you had to endure, it it's
(51:13):
a it's a different kind of feeling. And it's like
people don't really pay attentions that I know about that,
Like when uh, this is attorneys of of being dishonest
when they're trying to get from victions and all that.
I don't think they take that consideration how many people
they are affecting, but just not going by the law,
just not being truthful about certain things, not just me,
(51:34):
whatever issue personal issue they may add about with me.
My family is affected by that, my brothers, my brother's kids.
When all this happened and they feel like they lost
a mother because my mother devoted so much time for
trying to give me back out of the system that
they felt like they were neglected. So they were affected
by that. My older sister was affected, my brother was affected.
(51:56):
I mean, everybody was affected. One minute remaining and when
you're trying to hold onto something good, even when you're
trying to get something good in this kind of situation,
there's still nothing good come from it. It's just always bad.
It's always negative as always a challenge is always hurdles,
so always something. But for the person that's in the
middle of it, that's just my experience. But on the
(52:17):
outside of it, that's something people don't never get a
chance to see. That's that's that's just a harsh or
harsh reality for a person to live based on someone
else being in competition when all this stuff basically could
have been avoided by someone just doing their job. But
the job people was uh employed them to do, you know.
So I think people should understand that and know that
(52:39):
there's a lot of people to be affected by something
like that. I think a lot of tissues should be
brought to this moment and this kind of situation. So
a lot of people can uh, if you ever find
another person that situation, it can be more mindful of that,
try to help in a different kind of way. They could,
because it's not just about me, somebody everybody here about.
(53:03):
On October thirteenth, two thousand seventeen, Wayan Dot County District
Attorney Mark dupri moved to vacate the conviction and dismissed
all charges against Lamont. Hours later, Lamont McIntyre walked out
of the courthouse a free man for the first time
in over twenty three years. Since then, Lamont has won
his wrong conviction civil suit, as well as a civil
(53:25):
suit against a number of officers, including Roger Globski. The
suit included the initials of at least seventy three other
women that Glupski allegedly victimized. After thirty years in the
uniform of the Kansas City, Kansas Police Department, Roger Glupski
went to work for nearby Edwardsville p D in two
thousand ten. Since Lamont's exoneration, Glupski faces three criminal indictments,
(53:48):
and from what I understand, there are more on the way.
It's also been rumored that Glupski may have been an
active participant in at least a dozen murders. And while
there might be an attempt to cut him down as
only one bad apple, we must remember as a director
of the Midwest Innocence Project, Tricia Bushnell put it, quote
there's an entire system that not only permitted him to
(54:10):
do it, but supported him and promoted him end quote.
Golubski had been made captain and his former partner was
chief of police until two thousand nineteen. Thank you for
listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank our production
(54:31):
team Connor Hall, Jeff Clyverne, and Kevin Wardis, with research
by Lila Robinson. The music in this production was supplied
by three time Oscar nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure
to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook
at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at wrong Conviction,
as well as at Lava for Good. On all three platforms.
(54:53):
You can also follow me on both TikTok and Instagram
at It's Jason flock Rangful Conviction is a production of
babl for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company. Number
one m
We originally released our interview with Lamon McIntyre on September seventeen.
Since then, a monumental shift has occurred in the dynamic
that resulted with Lamont behind bars and the guy who
deliberately framed him for a crime he didn't commit living
free as a detective for Kansas City, Kansas. It's alleged
(00:25):
that Roger Golupski was notorious in the black community for
using his authority to coerce women into sexual acts in
exchange for leniency, turning a blind eye, or just for
the courtesy of having him not framed them or a
family member. I'm cautiously optimistic about what appears to be
the beginning of some semblance of justice for Grupski and
(00:47):
the good people of Kansas City. Golupski has now been
formally charged in several cases in September for two counts
of sexual assault the same m O as we just mentioned,
and then in November, an indictment was revealed in which
Glupski was alleged to have conspired with a drug kingpin
(01:08):
to run a sex trafficking operation that routinely victimized minors.
Gorupski allegedly shielded the operation from investigation in exchange for
cash and sexual acts from his choice of girls. One
of the victims alleged that Gorupsky choked and raped her
when she was just sixteen years old. Gorupski maintains his innocence,
(01:29):
but if these allegations are true, I hope he burns
in the very real health in which he puts so
many innocent and at risk people. On April fifteenth, Dannielle
Quinn and Donald Ewing were fatally shot while sitting at
a powder blue Cadillac when a man dressed in black
(01:51):
pumped four shotgun rounds into the car. One alleged witness
claimed to have recognized the shooter as an acquaintance, quote unquote,
Lamont something. Another eye witness identified seventeen year old Lamont
McIntyre from a photo lineup. Both witnesses made positive identifications
in court, and despite a total lack of corroborating physical evidence,
(02:13):
this case appeared to be as open and shut as
they come, resulting in two consecutive life prison terms for
Lamont McIntyre. On this episode, we speak with Lamont, a
Pellet attorney, Cheryl Pilot, a former FBI agent and police
corruption expert al Generic as well as Lamont himself from
behind bars to find out how this seemingly righteous prosecution
(02:35):
had actually been corrupted from the very start. This is
wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason flam
(02:56):
Today's episode will make your blood boil and it will
blow your mind. So settle in because this is going
to be a crazy ride. Guilty one word ceiling Lamont
McIntyre's fate. Lamont McIntyre, aged seventeen and nine, has so
far been imprisoned for twenty two years. Twenty two years ago,
(03:16):
two young men, twenty one year old Don Yell Quinn
and his thirty four year old cousin Donald Ewing, were
gunned down in a horrible double homicide. Six hours after
the murders, police arrested McIntyre, but never searched his house
for evidence. Moreover, it was a trial which prosecutors offered
no physical evidence tying McIntyre to the crime, no motive,
(03:37):
no connection between him and the victims, no weapon, no fingerprints,
nor did Kansas City Campus believe even request search warrants
to find any of that material. A retired officer who
reviewed the case calls the investigation grossly deficient. Most notable
is that the family of the victims for twenty two
years have steadfastly insisted that he is innocent. Other witnesses,
(04:01):
also relatives of the victim, insisted as soon as they
saw McIntyre sitting at the defense table, they knew he
was not the shooter. They told the prosecutor, but were ignored.
One family member has signed and Affidavid claiming that under
pressure from police and the prosecutor, she lied at McIntyre's trial.
We're the first time a jury is speaking publicly about
the case. Greg Lover says that he now believes that
(04:22):
Wyandotte County jury was wrong. They didn't care about anything.
They just had their man and it was enough for
the twelve person jury. In deliberations, Loudber says he and
another juror were holdouts, but it was late in the
day and there was mounting pressure from others who wanted
a verdict. Maybe I had an opportunity to, you know,
do something good on that jury, but I sure didn't
(04:43):
do it. I took a coward's way out. It is
the speedy investigation and prosecution of that crime in this
place that a team of exonerators now insist was also
the focus of a terrible injustice. Lt. McIntyre, aged seventeen
and nine, has so far been imprisoned for twenty two years,
convicted and given two consecutive life sentences for a crime
(05:04):
they say you never commit. Well, I'm just gonna say
I'm really happy that today joining us to discuss the
insane case of Lamont McIntyre. We have with us Lamont's attorney,
Cheryl Pilot, as well as retired FBI Special Agent Al
gener Rich. Cheryl and Al, thank you for being here.
(05:26):
Thank you so much. We're glad to be here, happy
to be here, and we will be hearing later on
in the episode from Lamont, who will be calling in
from president in Kansas, where he has been incarcerated for
approximately twenty four years now since he was a teenager
for a crime that he did not commit. Now, let's
go back to the beginning. On April there are two
(05:50):
men sitting in a Cadillac in Kansas City, Kansas, when
they were approached by a man with a shotgun. These
facts are not in dispute right and what we know
is that war shots were fired into the car, killing
the passenger Don yelle Quinn instantly and the driver, Donald Ewing,
who died later in the hospital. And amazingly, within six hours,
(06:12):
they managed to find a guy who had nothing to
do with the crime, Lamont McIntyre, who was seventeen at
the time, and he was arrested and charged with two
counts of first degree murder in spite of a total
lack of any physical evidence connecting him to the crime.
How did this happen? Cheryl? And I'll jump in whenever
(06:32):
you want. Lamont was arrested and prosecuted after police obtained
three interviews from eyewitnesses, one of them never testified, but
the taped interviews of these eyewitnesses in a very serious
crime obviously where someone can go to prison for the
rest of their life, amounted to a total of twenty
(06:55):
taped minutes, and one of the eyewitness is was only
interviewed for four minutes. Is that an investigation? What is that?
So all? You've done a lot of research and you
were in the FBI for quite a while, Is that right?
I was in the FBI for twenty five years. I
was a special agent. I specialized in investigating police corruption.
(07:19):
I worked in Chicago very successfully, and then in Kansas City, Kansas.
Agent Jenner was not involved with this murder case at
all when it happened. I knew Mr Jenner Rich through
other cases and after he retired a number of years
after he retired, actually and I was working on trying
(07:39):
to achieve Lamont's exoneration, I approached him to talk to
him about the Kansas City, Kansas Police Department and things
that I had uncovered in my investigation. And it was
at that point that Alan I started talking about some
of the things he had learned while working for the FBI,
(08:01):
and they, you know, matched up with some of the
things I had uncovered in my investigation. And it was
because of that that he became a witness in this
case that I hope to use at our hearing. So,
prior to la Month's arrest, can we talk about what
was happening with this particular cop whose name was Roger Globski.
(08:25):
Sometime around or so, I was able to open an
investigation into police corruption in Kansas City, Kansas. And as
the investigation went on over time, over many years, we
developed maybe somewhere between twelve and fifteen police officers who
were titled subjects of the investigation. Some of it involved
(08:47):
civil rights, like beating people up, stealing their shoes when
they were walking down the street because the officer like
the shoes, or in the case of Glupski, you know,
sexual extortion. But most of it involved corruption involving drugs,
mostly cocaine. And in the course of this investigation, just
by talking to people, which is when I'm pretty good
at over time, you know, a number of people told
(09:11):
us about Grupski extorting sex from black women and he
liked black women. We never developed enough evidence on on
Glupski to prosecute him. That's the extent of my knowledge
about Grupski. I always believe that that police were good,
and the police were on our side and they're there
to protect us all and so I always find these stories,
(09:34):
even as long as I've been working on this issue,
and I've got twenty five years now of experience, but
I always find these stories so just depressing and shocking,
and it flips everything upside down. Well, like you, I
was very naive until I went to Chicago and then
I saw police corruption on the mass of scale. But
(09:55):
then when I got back to Kansas City in six
and it's probably got involved in Kansas City, Kansas. You know,
I saw the same activity. There wasn't on the grand scale.
You know that it's that it's conducted in Chicago. It's
basically police officers, most of whom are white, picking on minorities,
(10:15):
most of whom are black, some of them are Hispanic.
Because when you're a drug dealer, you know, you can't
go to the police the FBI and say, hey, these
cops are stealing my drugs, these cops are stealing my
drug money. You basically have to you have to suck
it up. So that's what they do in Chicago. That's
what they do everywhere. So Lamont his troubles really began
(10:39):
when his mom was at a car with I guess
was her boyfriend at the time, Cheryl Right. Glubski approached
the car and told her to get out and threatened
her with arrest or arrest of her boyfriend unless she
agreed to come down to the police station. And then
the problems really began when she refused to become one
(11:02):
of his girls so to speak. Right, I mean, obviously
she was in a terrible situation where she's very vulnerable,
not able to defend herself from a cop who's willing
to go to almost any lanes to fulfill his desires.
She had a tremendous problem, and she decided that she
wanted to maintain her dignity, really right, And so what
(11:25):
seems like happen is that as a consequence, Gloobski decided
that he would target and frame her son. And something
that is so evil that, you know, makes me want
to quit the human race. There was an encounter that
Lamont's mother had with the detective some years earlier. I
mean it was years actually before the double homicide happened.
(11:49):
And at the time of the double homicide, my client
was inexplicably dragged into the case. One of the eyewitnesses
told the police she thought the shooter looked like a
Lament dating her niece. Police never bothered to find out
what Lamont that was. They don't go ask the niece
what Lamont that was. They simply put another Lament and
(12:12):
it's undisputed, an entirely different Lamont my client into the
case and somehow obtain this identification. What's interesting about the lineup,
and I've never seen anything like this before, is three
of the five photos were of young male members of
the MC entire family. You don't have to be a
(12:34):
conspiracy theorist to say, well, that doesn't make a lot
of sense. What it's one perpetrator. It's not like that
somebody said there were three brothers that were involved. It's
one perpetrator, you know. And then the justice system we
know as a tendency to chew people up and spit
them out when they are poor, particularly if they're minorities
(12:57):
and underrepresented. It's really it's not a fair fight, is it. Well,
I mean, this, this whole thing um was an impossible
battle for Lamont to begin with. I mean, first of all,
the investigation itself, I don't think really qualified is is
a true investigation because so little was done. No evidence
(13:20):
of motive was ever uncovered. There was no physical evidence
that tied Lamont to the crime. There was not even
any evidence that he knew the two victims, their backgrounds,
of the two victims, and who might have a motive
to harm them. That was never investigated. There was an
eyewitness directly across the street who was never interviewed, whose
(13:41):
whose mother said, you know, she she knows who the
suspect is. I mean, the the failures and lapses and
irregularities in this case just go on and on. I mean,
other than the twenty minutes of taped interviews from the eyewitnesses,
there was very little else and the only evidence at
trial against Lamont were two eyewitnesses. One of them has
(14:06):
admitted that she lied, that she was coerced. The other
eyewitness seems frankly, very perplexed by her testimony, and it's
it's very clear that it's an eye witness a misidentification
based on manipulation. And we know also that had this
trial taken place twenty years later or so, with everything
(14:28):
that's known now about the unreliability of eyewitness identification, there's
a very good chance that that would have been discredited
because there was no other evidence connecting to the crime.
You take a person who's traumatized, who has just witnessed
a really horrific event, and they can be pretty easy
to pressure or manipulate. And in fact, this witness provided
(14:50):
in a tape statement my client's last name, a man
she did not know and had never heard of, which
raises the very interesting question of who gave her the name.
It was disputed at trial that she did not know
my client. Yet the fact that there was an original
tape statement where she provided his name never came out.
(15:10):
That was never admitted at trial. She also stated wrongly
that my client was the Lamont who had dated her niece.
At trial undisputed that that was not true. It was
an entirely different Lamont who was in fact identified by
his name to the jury, an entirely different person. So,
I mean, the whole thing is is troubling beginning to end,
(15:32):
really a perfect storm of chaos and horror and misconduct,
things being done improperly. So you have this cop in
this department that is so corrupt isn't even the right word,
but that's engaged in so many legal activities. And isn't
(15:53):
it ironic and tragic that Lamont is in prison living
in hell after twenty four years and this this cop
who was from what I've read, raping people, robbing people,
dealing drugs, protecting drug dealers, he's out. How How is that?
I mean, that must not not sit well with you,
(16:15):
with your whole background either. What I'm really hoping for,
what our entire team is hoping for, and what we
have sought for a long time, is a very full
investigation into the activities of this detective. There needs to
be an investigation by people who have the power to
(16:36):
follow all the leads, develop information, compel the testimony of witnesses,
and obtain other evidence. Let me let me turn it
to you for a second, because we have not had
somebody with your background and experience on the show before,
and I would venture to say that you had a
(16:57):
very very difficult and dangerous job right investigating cops. Particularly
when you're investigating cops, we've got a lot to hide,
makes you a very unpopular person, I would think, so,
looking back on it, how did this manage to go
on for so long without somebody coming along and saying, uh,
(17:21):
you know, besides you, hey, hey, we're not going to
tolerate this. They don't give a ship. At the time
we were doing these investigations, the police chief of Kansas City, Kansas,
a guy named Tom Daily. He had previously been indicted
by the Federal Strike Force for extorting money at a
whorehouses along the kar River in Kansas. He was doing
(17:42):
that allegedly when it was a captain. He was acquitted
because it was a real weak case. But after being
an acquitted for extortion, the city wound up eventually making
him the chief is that the actions you know, of
a responsible a city administration or a police department. So
he had the chief over here, Tom Dale. He had
(18:02):
previously been indicted by the FEDS. He despised the federal government.
He hated the U. S. Attorney's Office and UH and
the FBI. And he's the chief. He was part of it.
So you have this guy Golubski, who, in that scenario
is operating basically with impunity, right because he knows his
(18:23):
chief doesn't give a ship. And with the chief having
literally what it sounds like, gotten away with that particular
pattern of activity as well as I'm sure other things
that he was doing. The people underneath them are probably thinking, hey,
this is great, no one's going to touch us, and
they're right, and nobody did. So how frustrated was that
(18:44):
for you? There? You are really fighting an unwinnable war,
right You're you're there trying to protect the public from
the police force. Were the chief of police who not
only doesn't give a fuck, but doesn't want that He
wants you. He probably wants you to funk out of
his hair so he could just you know, run the
streets how he wants to write. When I started working
over there. You had a person, you know, some guy
(19:07):
I knew, had a lot of people in the county jail,
and they would say so and so confronted me and
stole my money, stole my drugs. You go, what, what's
the CoP's name? I don't know his name. You know
what's he looked like? Well, you know he's some white guy.
Well you go to the police. The police did not
have photographs of their police officers, So if a victim
(19:27):
came in there alleging that so and so officer robbed
from me, extorted me, they didn't even have photographs to
show people so they could identify who the police officer was.
So good luck, you know, through the U. S. Attorney's Office,
through UH Julie Robinson, who was a prosecutor at the time,
we subpoenaed photographs of every sworn officer in the Kansas City,
(19:50):
Kansas Police Department, and there was how to pay for that.
I was almost removed from the investigation because of that.
You know, I think one of the problems is that
other law enforcement officers don't want to investigate law enforcement
and as a general rule, I think they find it
distasteful something they would rather avoid and there is a
(20:13):
tendency to minimize misconduct. I found that really pretty shocking,
not in light of everything else we're talking about, but
I can see how you would, and it's it really
gets easier and easier to see how these wrongful convictions
are so common. I mean, here we have an interesting situation, right,
We're talking to Al, who's in there with his badge
(20:35):
working for the Federal Beer of Investigation and basically being
told go fund himself. So what chance does a seventeen
year old black kid from the poorer side of town,
what chance does he have against this blue wall, this
blue monster that was out to get him. He had
(20:56):
no chance. So now fast forward to twenty four years later,
Lamont sits in a prison studying reading. By all accounts,
a model prisoner, somebody who maintains a positive outlook in
spite of this. You know what can only be described
as the worst faith that can be fall an individual
(21:20):
to be cars rave or something he didn't do for
the rest of your life. But now we have hope, right,
I mean, he has hope thanks to you and the
years of work that you've done in this case and
Al and other brave people who have devoted their time
and in some cases probably even risk their own personal
safety to try to get justice in this case. What
does it look like now? What happens next? Tell us
(21:41):
what's going on. We have a evidentiary hearing coming up
in October and we intend to present somewhere between forty
and fifty witnesses who provide very powerful testimony on various
aspects of the case. Was almost nothing really to support
(22:02):
the conviction to begin with, nothing other than the testimony
of the two eye witnesses, and I believe that has
been thoroughly shredded at this point through recantations and admissions
and the result of other investigation. And we are also
focusing on the very troubling misconduct in the case. It
(22:24):
is intimately connected to how the investigation was conducted, and
we're going to bring all that out and show how
we believe this went wrong, and we very much hope
to be successful. What's the date of the hearing October twelfth.
October twelfth, And is this in a federal court. We
(22:46):
are in Windout County District Court, which is a state court.
My client is litigating what's called a successive petition under
sixty fIF seven and you have essentially a procedural barrier
to get over before you can get back into court.
But we do have this evidentiary hearing schedule that we
are very very excited about. One of the most compelling
(23:08):
things about the case we haven't mentioned this yet, is
that the families of both victims have always known my
client is innocent and are very much squarely supporting the
quest to free him. They know that they did not
get justice, their families did not get justice, and that cheryld.
In your experience, that's not a common thing, right, I mean,
(23:30):
most of the cases I've seen, even in the face
of what could be overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the
victims families sometimes stick with what they've been told all
along because they just can't. They can't even process the
idea that they may have been lied to and that
the wrong person may have been serving time for the
for the murder of their loved one. So in this case,
this is a very unusual scenario, isn't it It is?
(23:51):
And one of the eyewitnesses is related to both of
the victims, and she her family in the family of
the second victim, to whom she's a bit more distantly related,
have always told me that they have known from the
beginning that the authorities got the wrong man. They have
(24:12):
always known this. They've made periodic efforts to correct this,
to address this, to try and get some justice, all
without success. And if there wasn't already enough to chew on,
this is the part that really just sets me off,
his courter pointed. Attorney Gary Long was on supervised probation
(24:33):
at the time of the trial for failing to diligently
handle three prior cases. He was suspended from the bar
a couple of years later for failure to adequately hinder
a separate criminal case, and he was this bar. How
is it even possible that, in a life or death
situation that you take somebody and you say, you know what,
(24:54):
we're going to give you a lawyer who's already messed
up three times when I said nobody gives a ship.
Do you understand what I mean? Do you know that
that you know that Tara Moore had you know she's
now a federal prosecutor. Yes, So Tara Moorehead was the
prosecutor in this case. Obviously didn't see anything wrong with
(25:16):
her prosecuting a case in which a young man's life
was at stake in front of a judge with whom
she had carried on an affair a few years earlier.
I think most reasonable people would agree that one or
the other should have been recused from this particular scenario,
(25:37):
because even if they were saints, and obviously they weren't,
because she's also the same woman from what I've read,
who threatened a witness who tried to come forward with
the truth with losing custody of her own children. But yes,
and now she's moved up the ladder. Seems like all
the bad guys have won here. Al what the fuck? Well?
(25:59):
I think are more heads currently married to a police officer.
I think there's some other prosecutors over in the federal U. S.
Attorney's Office that are married to other police officers. So
you're not going to expect them to investigate police corruption,
are you? Well? I guess that would make it tricky,
wouldn't it. They're not going to do it, and they don't.
I mean, there there's so much that could be investigated
(26:22):
that ought to be investigated, and you know, I I
should also point out that sexual misconduct among police officers
is not unusual in some departments. When you have poor
and vulnerable people encounter folks with ultimate authority over them,
ultimate authority in that particular moment. You know, those things
(26:46):
can happen all too easily, and they do, and they
happen frequently. You know, when I was in age, and
I'm about six ft four, I had a gun, a
badge and radio and everything. At nighttime when I was
on my way home or on the weekends, I would
not drive to Kansas City, Kansas, unless I was accompanied
by another FBI agent. Thought they might have run you
(27:07):
off the road or something else. They could do anything.
They could pull me over and not saying they don't
know who I was, and they could say, pulled a
gun and they could shoot me. So I have all
that power and authority. What is some little black kid
on the street half. I hope that in exposing the
story of Lamont and some of the things that you've
shared out that people, you know, get their backs up
(27:30):
and get get angry and get involved. These are just people,
They're just regular people, and they're they're being so terribly
abused and victimized by people who are supposed to protect them.
I I don't it makes me sick. I just say
that the fear and the terror that some of the
citizens experience cannot be overstated. I mean, you have someone
(27:53):
with a badge with ultimate and really, as I said
in that moment, unchecked authority, is enormous fear of the
police and enormous, sometimes unmovable resistance to getting involved in
anything that has to do with the criminal justice system.
I've spent some years, honestly just earning the trust of
(28:17):
some people in the community so that they will sit
down and speak with me so that we can investigate
the case. Nobody wants anything to do with a case
you say, courthouse people walk the other way. They don't
want anything to do with that. And ultimately we have
been successful in securing some very good witnesses because they
(28:40):
did want to help someone they've viewed as innocent. And
you know, I should point out here that all of
the street talk we have ever heard in the community
is that Lamont is innocent, the guy who got wrongfully convicted.
It's like everyone knows, the whole community knows. The victims
family leads no. Everyone knows Lamont did not do this.
(29:05):
Everyone knows. You have a prepaid call from an innate
at Kansas Department of Corrections Lansing Correctional Facility. To accept
(29:27):
this call, press or say five to refuse. This call
will be recorded and subject to monitoring. At any time.
You may begin speaking now, Lamont, welcome to the show. So, Lamont,
I want to go back to the beginning, when you
grew up and how this all started. I've seen photos
(29:50):
of you with your family. Looked like you had not
an easy but a happy childhood. Is that fair? Can
you just describe what it was like. I've heard you
talk about Christmas and stuff. Uh. Yeah, we was tightened it,
you know. I was like my mother was just only
paying in the house and it was close me and
my siblings, and we did everything together. We stayed in
one house, you know, we to carry of each other.
(30:12):
So glowing off of me was my family was a
big day. Didn't really bite about a lot of stuff.
And I was me and my three brothers and my sister.
My was a sister. My mother worked a lot, so
my sister kind of watched that. There was a little
bit some other family members liked to go with my
family member's house uncles and be around them. Our mother
(30:34):
was at work. I kind of still stayed around family
I sat at my home, so real, family oriented and
where you grew up. You had no idea at this
time that the police force was really as corrupt as
anyone could possibly imagine until this terrible incident occurred. And
(30:55):
I want to go back to that. What happened. You
were a setvent teen year old kid going along with
your life, trying to make it in a difficult place,
and then one day out of the blue, you get
arrested and don't even know what's going on or what happened. Uh,
that's exactly what happened. And I was it was a
(31:15):
typical day. It was like a Friday, typical day. I
was in Rode in a Downey Common program where it's
all time of school when they wu help you get
your high school to phone, and then that gets you
in uh college, so like a little degree program as
a part of and um, it was just a Friday.
I get a call phone call saying the police over
(31:38):
my grandmother's house looking for me. Called my mother. We
go to the police station and they started talking about
two murders. And I had no answers for him because
I don't know if they were saying what they were
talking about. So from that moment I was arrested, charged
and uh eventually convicted of two murders. Then I had
(31:59):
in the way what about And we know now that
they were deliberately targeting you because of this particular police
officer who was up to all kinds of criminal activity himself.
And that's the irony of this is that he belongs
in jail, and I'm hoping that by the end of
(32:21):
this that's exactly what's going to happen. But the idea
that this system, this so called justice system, had made
a decision that you were going to be there. Guy,
there was this double murder, right, two guys sitting in
a car. They were involved in drug activity. They were dealers.
We now know also that one of them had been
(32:42):
beaten by the guys he was working for in the
drug business. Right, he was working as a doorman in
a crack then, and he had feared for his life,
and in fact he had good reason to because I
guess he had from what I've learned he has been
he had been stealing from them, so that every reason
and to know that this was a drug hit, and
(33:04):
you weren't involved in that game or that business. Did
you know these guys. I didn't know the witnesses, I
don't know the victims that I would have connected to
it at all. That's why I so it's so hard
for me to understand how something that could happen because
and I was forward about everything. I don't try to
hide nothing because I knew that what they were talking
(33:25):
about that time, I had nothing to do with it.
I would involved. I don't know what the police officer's
motive was to plan it on meal. I still don't
know to this day what happened. Well, it does seem
like now with everything we've learned that the officer involved,
the first one who arrived on the scene was an
officer named Glubski. It's a white guy who had a
(33:47):
proclivity for women of color and when he didn't get
his way, he would exact revenge. And so what it
seems like is that in this particular case, he targeted
you be because your mom wasn't having any part of that.
And that's what makes this particularly sinister and sick. You
end up going to trial, and I find it interesting,
(34:11):
among all the other things in your case, that they
offers you a plea bargain right and you didn't take it.
I wouldn't the rest of the plea bargain. I can't
understand how I sit in this situation, and I hadn't
know nothing about the time itself. Sole bargains. Far from
my mom I was, and why I find that and
why I brought that up, Lemon, And I've seen the
(34:31):
mugshot picture of you, and it really hurt my heart
because I could see in your face just how confused
you were and scared of a situation that you couldn't
possibly imagine what was happening at that time. I also
would think that if you were guilty and they're offering
you a deal and you know your chances of winning
(34:53):
in the court are going to be low because they
have all these cops and everybody else is going to testify,
I guess you would have taken the plea bar and
anybody with the right mind would take a plea bargain.
You're not crazy, are you right? You don't You don't
sound crazy. You don't sound crazy at all. So in
the situation like this, I mean, we have in this
country over cases end up in plea bargains. So had
(35:13):
you been guilty, that would have been a very logical
thing to do. But as an innocent person and probably
somebody who still trusted in the system, you went forward
with your right to a trial, and you were represented
by a guy who they knew your court appointed lawyer.
They knew this guy was incompetent because he had already
been disciplined for three previous cases that he had completely botched.
(35:35):
It almost sounds like they did it on purpose. They
assigned a guy who didn't go and interview witnesses, who
didn't really didn't do anything he was supposed to do.
And what was that like? Were you aware at that
time that this guy wasn't I mean, I don't even
know if it was really on your side, but I mean,
as you're watching these proceedings, what were you thinking? Like
(35:57):
a lawyer? He presented itself like a person is there
on my behind to take care of this business, and
he's seeing real professional at first, So I didn't know
what to expect because I've never been in that situation
before anyway, So his first impression was for me, it
was a good impression because I didn't know what a
lawyer was supposed to do. I was so ignorant to
(36:18):
the law and our thing work. I just believed in
the justice system at that time. I really did. I
thought there was no possible way, being an innocent person
or person that has nothing to do with that crime,
that I would be found guilty. So I don't really
pay too much attention to the credibility of this lawyer.
It didn't die on me that I would be found
guilty of the crime that I had nothing to do
(36:38):
with it. So I didn't really think about it in
those times. I was just thinking, you can't give me
any lawyer, anybody from anywhere, and it'll be okay because
once they realized they had the wrong person to get
ironed out and trial, That's what I was thinking. But
I didn't plan all how to think that people would
get on the stand and line. It was on fabricade,
and I didn't think that was gonna happen. I had
(36:58):
no idea that they had already made up in their
mind and I was going to escape God for this
particular crime. So definitely being needed at a law and
have these work in the justice system. I believe in
the justice system at that time. I really did. I
think all of us do when we're kids, especially brought
up in a good home like you were. You brought
up to believe that people are good and that the
(37:20):
system is is going to work for you, and then
you had a lawyer who, had he been competent, I
still think would have one your case in spite of
all this, because of the simple fact that it was
an easy case. The witnesses were not credible at all.
We now know that they also withheld exculpatory evidence, So
(37:42):
you really didn't have a fair chance, especially not with
a lawyer who was incompetent. And ultimately, let's not forget
that this particular lawyer was disbarred not too long after
your trial. And again for the listeners out there, think
about that, this is a guy who had been disciplined
in new merce cases prior to laments and then ultimately
(38:04):
gets disbarred when the extent of his gross incompetence is
brought to the Supreme Court of Kansas, the attention to
the Supreme Court, and then he voluntarily gave up his
license to practice law. And that wasn't the end of
the nightmare. We now know too that your appellate lawyer
was disbarred. I mean, you can't even make this stuff up.
(38:26):
So what happened like now you're in the courtroom, the
jury goes out, the arguments have been made. You saw
these witnesses get up and lie. You saw these police
officers get up and lie. Your defense made whatever arguments
they made. Did you believe that they would come back
and declare you innocent? I did. I did five of
(38:49):
them up being I did. I just didn't know that
this is how to sit them work. They found me
guilty based all all evidence, for the kind of evidence
by a certain as your attorney. They heard stuff about me.
There wasn't even about Lemar Magnetize, and she just kind
of made self up. They told his story, and the
jury believed. But at the time before they came back
(39:10):
with a guilty Birdie, I still didn't think I'll be
found guilty because the whole time I'm sitting there, in
the whole time I'm going through the process of getting
to trial, I still had no knowledge of the actual crime.
So I'm thinking, with my young mind being naive, that
there's no way a jury can finally guilty when I'm
really not guilty, when I had nothing to do with it.
I'm not tied to it at all. The witnesses, the
(39:34):
victims I'm not tied to it. I was in the
area when it happened. When they came in, I noticed
that no juries, no one looked me in my face,
no one looked looked up. Everyone came in looking down
at the floor. So I kind of had an eerie feeling,
but I still had hope that it will work out
in the right way. So when they read the verdict
(39:54):
and they said guilty, it's like I've seen my whole
life flash before me and I and for that moment,
I fosed and I was sitting there and I stood up,
and I remember saying something. I was screaming something, you know,
to the effects of I'm not guilty, and you got
the wrong person whatever. And I felt someone holding me
or wrapping me from behind, and I wasn't shot, so
(40:16):
I didn't really I was like a lost moment. But
I turned around and I see my mother hold me, screaming,
crying like don't take my baby away from me, don't
take my baby. And I'm looking at her and I
realized that this is a serious situation now, but it
still didn't feel real. It was my life in my situation,
but it didn't feel like my life in my situation.
(40:37):
I felt like I was outside of myself looking at
this event happened. I couldn't stop it. So I wasn't
shot and that shot lasted for a few years after
that I was in shot. So now now you're convicted
of a double murder and sentence to life in prison?
Where did they take you to the processes? Like? From
this time you get them victed Standing County for about
(40:58):
two months, then you go to citizen Now the how
cinis in Wanna County. They gave me to life sentences
to ron consecutive. You never that. They sent me to
a process of center which we call RDU, where they
see you to determine what classification you would be, what
custody you would be in. I was considered max custody.
(41:19):
So from there they sent me to prison other than us.
That's a that's a prison in Kansas they called Glady
in the school, one of those tough prisons. You know, people,
you know, it's a prison. It's like the work not
did you have a prison? Is that more? Is this dark?
Is negative? This pension feel he's hopelessness. It's a world
(41:44):
that is all I was just seventeen year old. Did
you have plans. Did you have a career mind, what
was the outlook for the future. We're still just trying
to figure it out. Yeah, I wasthing I wanted to do,
(42:05):
and it was just I was I was been gude
in the line, and I was just in a place
where everybody around me was either dine or going to
jail or I was just in the kind of remindment.
It didn't produce a lot of hope. I didn't have.
I didn't have a lot of people to look up
to or emula, nothing like that. But I did enjoy
taking care of my family. So my life was just
(42:26):
basically about trying to take care of my family the
best way I know how, or to look out for
my loved ones. You know, I had skills and things
I could do, Like I was a barber, I was
cutting hair since I was twelve. You know, I was
comedian and I had these in the back of my mind.
I wanted to be a comedian and I had things
I wanted to do. I just didn't know how to
get to where I wanted to be. But I still
(42:49):
didn't think that my life was of being in prison
or going to jail, being in this kind of situation.
What is a typical day like for you on the inside?
How do you get through to it? What's the schedule? Uh,
typical day. Typical day is re readjusted. It's like from
Hunt day to the nexus. Finding a way to get
(43:12):
by for one day, a line something for my days,
and then I just try to it just sucks. I
gotta repeat it like if I have a bad day
or I'm frustrated for one day, I'm going to sleep,
wake up to repeat this day again. So I try
to find the best I can or get the best
I can out of a day, because waking up to
repeat it is the anxiety. That's where all that the
(43:33):
worst stuff is knowing of it. For the last twenty
three years and two huntres some months and they have
a on a weeks and eight thousand days. It's the
same thing. It never changes. So I devote my time
to read it and studying and write like music right, poetry,
trying to keep my mind free as possible. I try
(43:54):
to stay out of prison mentionally. I tried out to.
I'm not into prison politics, I'm not in prison mentally,
but I'm here. I had to be my body here.
But I try to keep my mind far from this
places i can, so it's just a bunch of moments
of readjusting every day. And I have a lot of
love people that love me and care about me, so
I'll focus on that. But it's bad. It used to
(44:16):
be a lot worse than it is. Now. I'm starting
to see I'm coming alive now because I can see
a light at the end of this dark tundle. I've
been there for so long, so I'm better now. But yeah,
it wasn't so good before. It's better now. But it
was always sad to wake up. I had to repeat
this same cycle over and over again. That stuff is
another drive of person crazy. There's a lot of moments
where I felt like it's the point, you know, to
(44:39):
keep going to wake up every day that I had
to deal with the exact same nightmare you're trying to
escape from the night before. But I had my mother,
like she never gave up on me from day one.
Like when the worst moments of my life, you know,
I felt like I just couldn't do it no more
so that I couldn't take another step. She would show
up and when she would grab me and hold me
and looked at my face of mean, this is not
(45:00):
my life. I passed through, this is not my destination.
And so I had a lot of support my family
and and I gave my life to God and I
pray a lot of meditate a lot. So initially I
was kind of in this dark place where I was
so hurt and sad and depressed, and so I kept
(45:25):
people kept coming to my life. There was like beacons
of light and hope for me and I and I
and I thank God for all those people came into
my life and supported me, and they short it up.
I always have something to look forward to, because this
is a dark place. It's a dark situation where if
you don't have enough support. For me, it was just supporting.
I found it supportant. Then years later Sheryl and to
(45:48):
turn our ministries and innocent projects, they kept start coming
into my life and they breathe, uh, they breathe license
to me, it's like my second wind. And I'm grateful
for those people. Everybody was for me and everybody who
put forth effort, go out every day and do something
to help me get my life back. I'm, however, grateful
(46:09):
for those people. If you're even allow yourself, if you
allow your mind to go there. What are you dreaming
about when you get out? Because I'm convinced you are
going to come home and I'm gonna be there fighting
right alongside with everybody else. What's the first thing you
want to do? And then how do you see the
future The first day I'm gonna do with eat something.
(46:31):
That's what I fantasized about. Mostly, I want to eat
something that is there. From there, I want to have
some type of impact or effect on young people making
poor decisions. It was eventively uh landed in a situation
like this, you know. So I want to just raise
any kind of awareness I can about decision making because
you know, had I've been told how to make better
(46:53):
decisions to myself. I think even no I was even
to the law and this is something that had nothing
to do with me, and uh that I still gonna
been making better insist myself before this stuff even came about.
So I don't want to be able to be there
for young people as much as I can. So I
can I can help them understand that even though you
don't do something wrong, even though you don't commit a crime,
(47:14):
you can be you still got to be accountable and
you still got to be a mindful of the fact
that you're out there floating around and you can easily
be put in a situation like that, and if you're
not being productive and doing something this uh productive out
their life. So I just want to be able to
reach the young people as much as I can, and
now that there's that to be young, just anybody, I
don't want to be able to share my experience and
(47:37):
hopefully in all help out in any kind of way.
I'm sure that you will do that, and then you're
gonna have a very positive impact on a lot of
people because you have a very rare combination of intelligence
and a manner that is so positive and strong but
still gentle that I believe that you'll be able to
affect a lot of a lot of young people, and
(47:58):
I'm looking forward to watching you do that. There's one
other thing I wanted to raise. I'm always amazed when
I speak to someone in your situation, and especially so
with you, that you don't seem to be bitter after
everything that's happened. And I know you talked about your
faith and family and the strength that you get from
(48:20):
from them, But how is it possible that someone can
go through this most unimaginable nightmare, still be in it
and yet be as positive and strong as you are now. Well,
I had my moments with anger. Books You've always like
taking point and hoping someone else died from it. I
(48:40):
would only want to affect about me being angry. No
one else seeing the notice of attention to me being angry.
So how is this a learning experience? Like being angry
doesn't help me? So I didn't want to help myself
because I know I always knew I was gonna be
here forever. I know that basically the truth was surface
and I would have a life outside of it. Oh,
so I devoted a lot of time and energy towards
(49:03):
helping myself, and I hurt myself. So being angry was
something that was a hinterest to me, not a benefit.
So I try to say positive because these places you
got to keep up with a seven take care of yourself,
and anger and stress and all those things is just
short in your life span, and I got to like
to live. So I just choose. I choose to be positive.
(49:25):
I choose to not be angry and allow anger to
kill me. I don't want to die in this place,
and I don't want to have a short life. So
I stick firm to what I believe in, and I
believe in my faith, and I believe in meditation, I
believe in exercise. I'm believing to take care of my mom,
body and soul. And that's another to vote my time too. Wow. Um,
(49:46):
all I can do is tell you that you have
you have all my respect and support. And I was saying, then,
you know, I've seen too many miracles to stop believing
in miracles. So I'm excited to watch you be the
next one or one of the next ones, and we'll
never stop fighting for you and for other people in
(50:08):
your situation. I'm looking forward to a positive outcome and
to getting to know you on the outside the mind.
I'm just going to turn it over to you and
say it is your microphone. What do you want to
share with the audience? Well, these these kind of cases
having or more than they should, you know. So it's
like I always see on TV or day line, we
(50:31):
see anything man so many years in prison didn't get exonerated,
and you see this happened time and time again. But
what you never ever see a hairy here about how
much that stuff impact the effect of the families, but
those people like I had a post knit family. We
was close and it was a thing. This is not
just like me being affected by it, invent it happened
(50:51):
in my life. It hurts me to see how much
how much it affected not only me, was my family.
And it's difficult because if theF a man had to
go through a certain thing by himself, that's a that's
his life, that's his his path and life. He got
to go through that. I had to do what I
had to do, no matter what. But when you see
someone you care about being affected about what you had
to do or what you had to endure, it it's
(51:13):
a it's a different kind of feeling. And it's like
people don't really pay attentions that I know about that,
Like when uh, this is attorneys of of being dishonest
when they're trying to get from victions and all that.
I don't think they take that consideration how many people
they are affecting, but just not going by the law,
just not being truthful about certain things, not just me,
(51:34):
whatever issue personal issue they may add about with me.
My family is affected by that, my brothers, my brother's kids.
When all this happened and they feel like they lost
a mother because my mother devoted so much time for
trying to give me back out of the system that
they felt like they were neglected. So they were affected
by that. My older sister was affected, my brother was affected.
(51:56):
I mean, everybody was affected. One minute remaining and when
you're trying to hold onto something good, even when you're
trying to get something good in this kind of situation,
there's still nothing good come from it. It's just always bad.
It's always negative as always a challenge is always hurdles,
so always something. But for the person that's in the
middle of it, that's just my experience. But on the
(52:17):
outside of it, that's something people don't never get a
chance to see. That's that's that's just a harsh or
harsh reality for a person to live based on someone
else being in competition when all this stuff basically could
have been avoided by someone just doing their job. But
the job people was uh employed them to do, you know.
So I think people should understand that and know that
(52:39):
there's a lot of people to be affected by something
like that. I think a lot of tissues should be
brought to this moment and this kind of situation. So
a lot of people can uh, if you ever find
another person that situation, it can be more mindful of that,
try to help in a different kind of way. They could,
because it's not just about me, somebody everybody here about.
(53:03):
On October thirteenth, two thousand seventeen, Wayan Dot County District
Attorney Mark dupri moved to vacate the conviction and dismissed
all charges against Lamont. Hours later, Lamont McIntyre walked out
of the courthouse a free man for the first time
in over twenty three years. Since then, Lamont has won
his wrong conviction civil suit, as well as a civil
(53:25):
suit against a number of officers, including Roger Globski. The
suit included the initials of at least seventy three other
women that Glupski allegedly victimized. After thirty years in the
uniform of the Kansas City, Kansas Police Department, Roger Glupski
went to work for nearby Edwardsville p D in two
thousand ten. Since Lamont's exoneration, Glupski faces three criminal indictments,
(53:48):
and from what I understand, there are more on the way.
It's also been rumored that Glupski may have been an
active participant in at least a dozen murders. And while
there might be an attempt to cut him down as
only one bad apple, we must remember as a director
of the Midwest Innocence Project, Tricia Bushnell put it, quote
there's an entire system that not only permitted him to
(54:10):
do it, but supported him and promoted him end quote.
Golubski had been made captain and his former partner was
chief of police until two thousand nineteen. Thank you for
listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank our production
(54:31):
team Connor Hall, Jeff Clyverne, and Kevin Wardis, with research
by Lila Robinson. The music in this production was supplied
by three time Oscar nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure
to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook
at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at wrong Conviction,
as well as at Lava for Good. On all three platforms.
(54:53):
You can also follow me on both TikTok and Instagram
at It's Jason flock Rangful Conviction is a production of
babl for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company. Number
one m
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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