April 10, 2023 • 33 mins
In May 2001, Talalelei “TJ” Edwards, his wife and son were sharing an Anchorage, AK apartment with a woman named Melissa along with Melissa’s 1 year old son, Derrick. Talalelei often watched the boys on the days when other sitters were not available. On the morning of May 8, Derrick slept for a few hours until Talalelei noticed his odd breathing. Trained in child caregiving, Talalelei responded by blowing air on the child’s face, and performing CPR. When he did not respond, Talalelei took Derrick to the hospital. He passed away later that night. Based on the now discredited science of Shaken Baby Syndrome, Talalelei was sentenced to 20 years in prison. Maggie talks to Talalelei "TJ" Edwards, Salome Inoke, Talalelei's sister, and Bill Oberly, Talalelei's attorney.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
In two thousand and four, Tala La lay Edwards, a
young father and husband living in Anchorage, Alaska, was accused
of killing a one year old child who was in
his care. TJ was adamant he was innocent. He loved
children and was known to be a great father to
his own sons. They couldn't bring one person on my behalf.
(00:30):
They ever say that they saw me be violent, a
violent guy, and will do something to a kid. They
even took my two boys from me when this happened.
When he went to trial, he was sure the jury
would see the truth that he wouldn't hurt anyone, let
alone a child. When they say guilty, I was shocked,
(00:52):
And what made it real for me was my mom.
She started belting out crying and I looked back at her.
Imagine senior just like getting weak and just everybody's trying
to pick her up. I hate we live in that
memory that was running to me. I was trying to
erase it's stuck in there. My name is Tala La
(01:14):
lay Edwards Junior. Everybody knows me as TJ. I was
in cars ready for fourteen years for something I didn't commit,
and I'm here to tell my story from Lava for
Good This is Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeley today. Tala
(01:34):
lay Edwards Tala Lala Edwards Junior, known as TJ, was
born in the Samoan Islands on April seventeenth, nineteen eighty one,
(01:58):
to Salome and Edwards Sor. We are from the Islands
of Samore. Mom was born in western Samoa and my
dad was from American Samore. For a while, there has
just been me and my brother, Richard, who's a year
younger than me, before everybody else came, and it's probably
like a five or six year gap between the next
(02:21):
set of like it was. My two sisters came after
me and Richard, eventually adding up to nine kids in total.
Although the family lived in California briefly when TJ was young,
they soon went back to the Samoan Islands. My dad
took us back to the islands so we can learn
the culture, the language we speak, and just learn everything
(02:42):
about the Samoan culture. And so we stayed there for
about four or five years before moving back to California,
where the rest of my siblings were born. He is
like a best friend to me. This is TJ's sister, Salome,
who was named after their mother. She's six years younger
than TJ. I just remember him always being the one
(03:06):
that I looked up to. I wrote a few papers
on him in school as like the person that I'm
I look up to the most. After their parents divorced
in nineteen ninety five, TJ, as the oldest, found his
role in the family evolving, so I kind of had
to play their father figure off like watching over my
(03:28):
other younger siblings. Helping up my mom was just for
life because she was just to stay at home mom
before you know a dad separated. Salome remembers how TJ
stepped up for the family at the time. She came
to confide in her brother about everything in her life.
When I wasn't doing so good in school, I would
(03:48):
go to him and ask him for help on homework
or just anything that I wanted to talk to him about,
even if it was me dating someone. He was very
patient and also always created a s space for me
to go and talk to him about anything I was
going through. TJ was only fourteen at the time and
couldn't help out financially. Yet, when expenses became too much
(04:10):
for his mom, she packed up a car with whatever
they could fit and drove herself and her nine kids
from California to Anchorage, Alaska, where she had family. So
what is living in Alaska like? Living in Alaska's um
It's a pretty, you know, slow motion state. It's pretty
a mellow. At first, I've never seen snow before. So
(04:34):
when we came up here, I was like, wow, this
is nice. You know, it was awesome for the first
I see six months and two I was like, all right,
I mean I'm done with the cold. But things were
still hard for the family. It was a struggle just
to live up in Alaska. We were poor growing up,
you know, and we didn't have the finance to go
(04:55):
get us an apartment, you know, we had to live
with my auntie. And then when we moved up here.
Despite the hardships, TJ has fond memories of his childhood
being with my siblings up here, you know, just all
of us out there and snow and kind of like
just enjoying each other's company, you know, just us bonding
together and being there for each other. Was like that
(05:18):
was all to me. All I wanted to do was
keep the smile on their faces. We were pretty spoiled
because of him. Salome remembers TJ taking his siblings everywhere
he went, like sports games and their favorite hangout, we
always want to chuck e cheese. We went like probably
once a week, literally, but life in their part of
(05:46):
town was rough. I dropped out of tenth grade because
there's a lot of shootings going on and our family
was definitely one of those houses. I was getting shot
at because of you know, certain gangs or whatever they
call each other, clicks up here that we're going through
some battles back and forth. The gangs and anchorage included
(06:08):
Samoan Street gangs that sometimes fought with Tongan gangs, and
they thought that we were involved in that, me and
my siblings, you know, they thought we were involving any
of the gang activities and it wasn't the case, but
we were just caught in a crossfire of things, and
that's what kind of made me and my brothers stepped
out of school, like dropped out. TJ says. At the time,
(06:29):
there was a lot of racism and anchorage against Polynesians.
Polynesians were getting into altercations with the police and stuff
like that at that time, and we were definitely being
frowned upon as far as growing up here with the
law against you know, the poly community back then, and
(06:49):
it was difficult to like, you know, call them for
any kind of help because as soon as they pull
up and find out, oh, there's a poly community or
Polynesian family, didn't they kind of like turned the backs
on us or not even give us a help that
we needed, you know what I mean. After TJ dropped
out of high school, he went on to receive an
education with the Alaska Youth Military Program. It was for
(07:13):
kids that they were troubled youth or whatever and that
didn't graduate, but they given this chance to either you
go there to military or you know, you be able
to get your diploma that way. At this point, TJ
also had a girlfriend, Leona, and when I went into
(07:34):
this youth academy program in ninety nine, come to find
out that we were expecting the kid later on that
year in November, which I had my first son, which
is John tay Moses Edwards. So we got married August fourteenth,
ninety nine and Johns was born eleven seventeen, nineteen ninety nine.
(07:55):
TJ was nineteen at the time. He had been considering
a career in the military, but becoming a father put
a spin on his plans. It was just one of
those things that I fell in love with seeing my
son being born. I didn't want him to grow up
without a father, you know what I mean, being away,
So just me and my siblings growing up without our father.
(08:15):
That's what really made me want to stay home with
him and all the time, and didn't want to go nowhere,
and so I ended up not going to the military. Instead.
TJ took on two jobs in Anchorage, one at Applebee's
and when it's a security guard. He and Leona got
their own place. In the spring of two thousand and one,
(08:38):
TJ and Leona opened their house up to their close
friend Melissa and her one year old son, Derek. Derek
was TJ and Leona's godson, so they didn't hesitate when
Melissa needed a place to live. We didn't want them
to be out there in the streets and I having
nowhere to stay, so we had an extra room and
absolutely I said sure, why not. She ended up moving
(08:59):
in with us, and he started noting, seeing like a pattern.
She loves to go out and have fun, often leaving
Derek and TJ's care but he was fine with that.
You know, I don't mind watching my godson because him
and my son are pretty much, you know, the same age.
(09:19):
Melissa and Leonel worked together, so when TJ wasn't working
and the babysitter was unavailable, TJ took care of both
Derek and John Tay. TJ even got certified as a
caregiver and learned CPR and other first aid. One day,
while TJ was watching the boys, he noticed a scratch
on the back of Derek's head and he mentioned it
(09:39):
to Melissa. He was like, hey, have you noticed anything
wrong with your son's hey? Like, and she was like,
she had no idea where the scratch came from. Derek
had also been sick for a few days. He wasn't
eating and was throwing up a lot. Melissa was already
planning to bring him to the doctor, so we tell there's, well,
(10:00):
you know, you should probably go and have this looked at,
you know, when you go to a doctor. So when
you brought Derek back to the house, we asked him, so,
did you mentioned anything about the head injury? And she
never mentioned it, So we were kind of like stump,
like why not, why didn't you tell the doctor whoever
it was seeing him about, you know, that scratch behind
(10:20):
his head. A few days later, on the morning of
May eighth, two thousand and one, Melissa left Derek with
TJ and John Tay while she went to work. Leona
had already left the house for the day to TJ
was alone with the boys. She brought him in the room.
(10:42):
He was sort of crying a little bit, and then
he stopped crying, and then you know, we went downstairs.
I started cleaning up the house and everything. But soon
TJ noticed Derek wasn't doing well. I noticed him not
responding or it just breathing. Period. When TJ picked him up,
he saw that Derek's eyes were half open and his
(11:04):
fists were clenched. TJ tried blowing air in his face
to arouse him, but Derek was not responding, and so
I immediately I freaked out. I started doing CPR on
them and wrest them, rushing to the hospital instead of
calling nine one one, because TJ still didn't trust the police.
(11:26):
I've had the issues with calling any kind of authorities
or whatever, So my immediate reaction was to make sure
that Derek makes it there. Alive still. This episode is
(11:52):
underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. AIG is
committed to corporate social responsibility and to making a positive
difference in the lives of its employees and in the
communities where they work and live. In light of the
compelling need for pro bono legal assistance and in recognition
of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, the
(12:13):
AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and other
support to underrepresented communities and individuals at the hospital. Once
the doctors took Derek, TJ was left alone to process
what had just happened. They went back there and the
(12:36):
tip favor for them to come. Tell me where was
glonas lay sir, can you go on the front? You
got some class, I want to talk to you, stuff
like that, and I'm like, okay, I'm thinking maybe they'ren't
tend me what's going on, But instead one of the
detectives started questioning him. TJ told the detective everything he knew.
He was just cleaning up the house when he noticed
(12:56):
Derek struggling to breathe. He's saying, now something happened. You
should the baby or something, and I'm like should the baby?
What are you talking about? You know, And I was
kind of dumbfounded about the whole situation, like why are
you accused me? At eight fifty five that night, Derek
(13:19):
was taken off ventilator support and died. Doctors had discovered
that Derek's brain was bleeding and swollen, but showed no
signs of blunt force trauma. Brain bleeding and swelling, bleeding
in the eyes, and little or no evidence of external
trauma were known at the time as the triad supposedly
(13:40):
telltale signs of SPS or shaken baby syndrome. Experts at
the time claimed these injuries had only three known causes,
falls from a three story building, high speed motor vehicle crashes,
or violent shaking. Because he had been the last dult
alone with Derek before his death, TJ immediately became the
(14:04):
only suspect. They're you know, the whole time, they're like
convinced that I did it that morning, you know, like,
oh yeah, look how big he is. And that's what
the detective was kept drilling to me after one years
interview here, like TJ, man, look how big you are.
Like if I was a kid and you were over here,
like shaking me. I would I would be in the
same just and derek'son, I'm like, what are you a
(14:27):
big guy? Yeah? I was. I wouldn't say like a
big guy, but I mean I was. I was too
sixty at that time. I was, you know, pretty athletic
and stuff, and I didn't really see myself as a
as a Polynesian like a big you know, and that's
how they they look at us, you know, They're all
you guys are pretty big people, and so I yeah,
(14:48):
I was kind of like freaking out, like wow, yeah,
actually telling me for me now. The investigation into Derek's
death took nearly six months. During that time, police failed
(15:10):
to investigate any other angles besides SPS. In fact, they
often disregarded evidence that did not point to SPS. For example,
police and doctors ignored the fact that Derek had been
sick before his death, and was in fact taking multiple
medications a doctor had prescribed to address his symptoms. Also,
(15:30):
in the weeks before his death, while being babysat by
two twelve year old girls, Derek suffered a fall. The
police did not ask the babysitters about this, nor did
they follow up on any of his other medical issues.
When Derek first got to the hospital that day, doctors
also noted that he was doing something called posturing, which
(15:50):
is what TJ saw with Derek's clench fists and bent arms.
Posturing is a sign of seizure activity and can also
indicate swelling in the brain. But when doctors discovered the
brain swelling, they then focus their attention on confirming their
suspicions of SBS, ignoring any other possible causes. During the
(16:16):
investigation period, TJ and Leona were still in touch with Melissa.
She didn't blame TJ for the death of her son,
and in fact had told that to the police. She said, yes,
I went to the cops and I told him that
she didn't do it. I know you didn't do it.
You would never do something like this for my son,
because she knew, like I took care of her son
better than she's ever done, you know what I mean.
(16:37):
I've always been there to bathe him, and you know,
whenever she's too tired to care for him or whatnot.
And plus, you know, Derek and my son, like we're
almost the same age and they play with each other.
So when she made that statement that she knew that
she knew I didn't do nothing to her son to
cause this harm all against Derek. They looked at her
as a suspect. They didn't turn her. I say, what
(17:00):
was that. You're a TJ. Now, if you're saying that
TJ didn't do it, then you're the one. And so
that's when she retracted her statement and made another statement.
On October tenth, two thousand and one, TJ was working
one of his jobs when the police showed up. There
(17:22):
is like seven patrol cars that came on base. I
didn't know what was going on. I'd seen my boss
walking with a whole bunch of guys behind them. Those
were the detectives that are coming up to apprehend me
for the charge of the shaking baby Syner case. TJ
(17:48):
was arrested and charged with manslaughter and second degree murder.
Salome was shocked when she found out. She remembers thinking
about her youngest sister, who is teen years younger than TJ.
My mom left my dad when she was only a
week old. So TJ was literally like her father growing up,
(18:09):
and I've seen him like change her diverse, you know,
literally everything. So it was hard to it was hard
to even accept that's what they were charging him with
or arresting him for it, because that's just not what
I could ever imagine him doing. In addition to the charges,
(18:29):
TJ was hit with a double whammy. They even took
my two boys from me when this happened. By this time,
Leona had given birth to their second son, Javin. They
said I couldn't be around my kids until further investigation,
and then when they took my kids from us, I
couldn't believe it. I just felt like it was a nightmare.
(18:53):
I just I still remember that day like vividly right now,
and that's why I was like, man, I just hated
that feeling. TJ's trial started two and a half years
later in March of two thousand and four. The prosecutor
was Adrian Bachmann, and the case against TJ was thin.
(19:17):
They couldn't bring one person on my behalf they ever
say that they saw me be violent, a violent guy,
and will do something to this, you know, to a kid.
The prosecution's entire case rested solely on the idea that
only violently shaking a baby could cause the symptoms Derek had,
and that the injuries could have only happened within a
(19:38):
few hours of Derek's death, when only TJ was home
with him. The testimony at trial was pretty consistent with
if these three symptoms show up, it's child abuse and
shaking baby, and it has to have happened within the
last couple of hours. This is Bill Oberlei. He's the
(19:59):
executive legal director of the Alaska Innocence Project. He says
this was pretty much the only evidence presented at trial.
No signs on Derek of any fresh injuries, no signs
that he was picked up and held tightly and shaken,
no neck injuries. There was nothing presented that would support
(20:22):
provide physical evidence of the allegations they were making. However,
one neighbor did testify to hearing a noise like furniture
dropping quote loud enough that it shook the ceiling. The
prosecution suggested this was TJ slamming Derek on the floor.
So how did the defense respond? That was much of
(20:45):
the defense was that there was no indication of any
fresh injuries. TJ's attorney was Rex Butler. The defense called
one expert witness, doctor Janice Apoven, who was a forensic pathologist.
Doctor Opoven testified that there were indications of iron deposits
(21:09):
in Derek's brain. When blood starts to decompose after bleeding,
like in the brain, iron is formed, and so the
presence of iron in Derek's brain meant that the injury
he suffered would have been five to seven days old,
but that wasn't enough reasonable doubt for the jury. After
(21:32):
three days of deliberations, on April first, two thousand and four,
TJ was convicted of second degree murder. I didn't think
it was real because I got convicted on April Fools Day.
When they say guilty, I looked at my attorney, I say, easy,
did they just say guilty? I was shocked. And what
(21:55):
made it real for me that I knew that they
say guilty was my mom. She started helping out crying
and I looked back at her. I just seen her
just like getting weak and just everybody's trying to pick
her up, and I just started like breaking down. I
can't believe it. It didn't finally hit me until they
closed the door after escorting me back. When they hold people,
(22:19):
it was tough. It was I hate reliving that memory
and I was one memory I was trying to erase,
but it's it's stuck in there. Twenty two year old
TJ was sentenced to twenty years in prison, the minimum
sentence at the time. First, it was a scary you know,
just as scary this is being in cars already. You
(22:43):
see a lot of movies about prison, and you know,
for me to actually be there, and yeah, I didn't
I didn't want to do nothing. I didn't even eat
their food for a whole year. I started questioning that, man,
what did I go wrong? And you know, with my life,
you know, there's a lot of questions going through my head.
I didn't know what to do. Leona brought their kids
(23:21):
to see TJ regularly, but as his years in prison
went on, TJ's relationship with Leona deteriorated. I didn't blame
her for it, you know what I mean. It gets
lonely out there for people. Of course, she has needs
and wants stuff like that they need to be met.
And she ended up going her separate way. And it
(23:43):
was tough to even explain it to my kids, but
they knew what was going on. I in some of
our visits will start kissing and hugging each other. And
then as we started getting years in, they noticing us
just not even doing that. I'm doing that with my kids,
I'm hugging them, and so they started noticing that we're
not holding hands in a disney room. It was definitely tough.
(24:08):
TJ and Leone divorced in twenty ten, but in the
middle of that, TJ got some good news. His sister,
Salome told him she was engaged. The reason why I
even seem potential in my husband's because he reminds me
so much of my brother m bodies, everything that I
could say that I would be looking for in a man.
(24:29):
But Salome told her fiance that they couldn't get married
until TJ was out. She had always dreamed of having
her big brother walk her down the aisle, and because
of that, we were waiting for his appeals they were
getting denied. After about five years, TJ told her not
to wait any longer. He called me and he said,
(24:54):
I don't know why you keep putting your life on hold.
You should go ahead and marry him. And I didn't
want to because I wanted him to be there, but
because he was like, all my appeals are getting denied.
I don't think I'm gonna get out anytime soon, So
stop putting your life on hold for me, and that
was like the hardest thing for me to accept, and
(25:17):
I just remember crying and telling him I didn't want
to But I did eventually get married and he wasn't there,
and it was like it was like I was trying
to be happy, but at the same time, there was
a big part of me that was missing. Life was
(25:37):
passing t J by as he sat in prison. All
I was trying to do was get out as soon
as i could, like going and hating the law library,
learning about my case and just seeing what kind of
what else I can do to help give me out sooner.
And so that's what thought about the Alaska Innocence Project.
He immediately reached out to tell them about his case,
(26:00):
and in twenty eleven he got a letter back from
Bill Oberleigh and he's willing to take over my case
and give it a shot, you know, give me a
second chance to go on the courts. I was like, wow.
I remember calling my family up and just in tears
is of happiness, like, oh wow, this is the second
chance that I've always wanted, I prayed for. I look
(26:22):
forward to it, you know what I mean. So just
to know that I do have a fighting chance to
get out. We at the OSK Innocence Project and all
the innocence projects in America take their jobs really seriously,
and we have to be convinced that our client is
innocent before we are willing to go forward. And that
(26:46):
is my feeling about t J. Edwards, that I have
no doubt that he is innocent. Two eleven was when
the shaking baby syndrome belief was starting to be challenged
in a fairly strong degree. And as I dug deeper
(27:09):
into TJ's case, two things became clear to me. One,
I met TJ and realized what kind of individual he
was and that on one level convinced me that he
could not have done what he was accused of doing
or convicted of doing. And secondly, I looked into the
(27:32):
facts of the case as it related to shaking baby
syndrome and realized that the challenges that were being put
forward on shaking baby cases all pretty much applied to
TJ's case. Today, experts agree that there can be other
explanations for the triad, like seizures or even a short fall.
(27:52):
Bill says that Derek's strange sickness and the symptoms days
before he died clearly showed something else was going on
with him, and that investigators should have considered this the
basis of the conviction. The medical legal testimony that was
the basis of the conviction can no longer support the conviction,
(28:13):
and therefore it is a wrongful conviction that needs to
be overturned. Four years Bill worked on preparing TJ's appeal,
but in twenty fifteen, twenty years after he was first incarcerated,
TJ was released on parole. He completed his parole term
in the summer of twenty twenty one. Although TJ is
(28:34):
no longer a prisoner of the state, he is still
labeled a convicted baby killer. I'm somewhat free. I'm still
with my name not clear. That's how I look at
I'm still incarcerated still, you know what I mean, Until
everything is exhausted and getting clear from the system, that's
I look at being free. Meanwhile, TJ is trying to
(28:56):
adjust to life outside prison. I ain't gonna lie this
whole incarceration. That definitely I lost, like my joy in life,
as far as like all the fun things I used
to love. I used to love Christmas, I used to
love birthdays. I used to love anniversaries. I used to
love like just celebration. Right when I got out, I
(29:19):
feel like if I was to be celebrated and like happy,
like you'll get taken away from me, just like that.
If I have too much fun, it's gonna get taken away.
And that's what incarceration did for me. In twenty eighteen,
Bill filed a post conviction challenge to TJ's conviction, stating
(29:42):
that the changes in forensic evidence invalidate the conviction. They
are still in litigation. The fact that a short fall
cannot cause these injuries is no longer valid testimony. How
many doctors do you need to come forward and say that.
(30:05):
TJ is now working at an oil field in the
North Slope Borough in Alaska and is saving to buy
a home for his family. He's remarried to a woman
named Morgan, is a father to her children, Caden and Victoria,
and of course continues to have a relationship with both
of his sons from his first marriage. His family is
planning to move to California to be closer to Salome,
(30:27):
who is ecstatic her best friend is out of prison.
What I love about him too, is that even if
he's in a shower or doing something. He always picks up.
So it's great to be able to have that communication
and for me to be able to call him instead
of having a wait until he is available. I was
just laughing about this the other day because because of him,
(30:49):
I FaceTime a lot now. TJ is very much He
doesn't like calling just on the phone. He wants to
FaceTime all the time. TJ says now that he's he
wants to continue to mentor kids like he used to
do his own siblings and as he did in prison.
I felt like I was a therapist in there, you know,
(31:10):
giving out advices and some of the people I have
relationships now when I get out, they're the reason why
I'm up here. I'm a slope now, you know, having
a good job up here. I feel like my work
here in Alaska is not done as far as like,
you know, wanting to go out here and speaking to
(31:30):
some of the youth up here and just share my story,
you know, with them. This can happen to you. You know,
if you're you're thinking you got a perfect life going
and a snap of a finger, you're just on the
other side now. To help support the Alaska Innocence Project.
(31:50):
Go to Alaska Innocence Project dot org or check out
the links in our bio. Next time on Wrongful Conviction
with Maggie Freeling, Gwen Graham, let's think I know of
the police are coming down to talk to me. They said,
(32:10):
your ex girlfriend said that you killed somebody at an
earsing home, and I laughed at him. I second believe
you came down here for that bullshit. But then when
they charge me with I think four and more, That's
when I started losing it. Thanks for listening to Wrongful
Conviction with Maggie Freeling. Please support your local innocence organizations
(32:32):
and go to the links in our bio to see
how you can help. I'd like to thank our executive
producers Jason Flam and Kevin Wurdis, as well as our
senior producer Annie Chelsey, producer Lila Robinson, and story editor
Sonja Paul. The show is edited and mixed by Annie Chelsey,
with additional production by Jeff Cleburne and Connor Hall. The
music in this production is by three time OSCAR nominated
(32:54):
composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram
at Wrongful Conviction on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast and
on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava
for Good. On all three platforms, you can also follow
me on both Instagram and Twitter at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful
Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a production of Lava for
(33:14):
Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one
In two thousand and four, Tala La lay Edwards, a
young father and husband living in Anchorage, Alaska, was accused
of killing a one year old child who was in
his care. TJ was adamant he was innocent. He loved
children and was known to be a great father to
his own sons. They couldn't bring one person on my behalf.
(00:30):
They ever say that they saw me be violent, a
violent guy, and will do something to a kid. They
even took my two boys from me when this happened.
When he went to trial, he was sure the jury
would see the truth that he wouldn't hurt anyone, let
alone a child. When they say guilty, I was shocked,
(00:52):
And what made it real for me was my mom.
She started belting out crying and I looked back at her.
Imagine senior just like getting weak and just everybody's trying
to pick her up. I hate we live in that
memory that was running to me. I was trying to
erase it's stuck in there. My name is Tala La
(01:14):
lay Edwards Junior. Everybody knows me as TJ. I was
in cars ready for fourteen years for something I didn't commit,
and I'm here to tell my story from Lava for
Good This is Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeley today. Tala
(01:34):
lay Edwards Tala Lala Edwards Junior, known as TJ, was
born in the Samoan Islands on April seventeenth, nineteen eighty one,
(01:58):
to Salome and Edwards Sor. We are from the Islands
of Samore. Mom was born in western Samoa and my
dad was from American Samore. For a while, there has
just been me and my brother, Richard, who's a year
younger than me, before everybody else came, and it's probably
like a five or six year gap between the next
(02:21):
set of like it was. My two sisters came after
me and Richard, eventually adding up to nine kids in total.
Although the family lived in California briefly when TJ was young,
they soon went back to the Samoan Islands. My dad
took us back to the islands so we can learn
the culture, the language we speak, and just learn everything
(02:42):
about the Samoan culture. And so we stayed there for
about four or five years before moving back to California,
where the rest of my siblings were born. He is
like a best friend to me. This is TJ's sister, Salome,
who was named after their mother. She's six years younger
than TJ. I just remember him always being the one
(03:06):
that I looked up to. I wrote a few papers
on him in school as like the person that I'm
I look up to the most. After their parents divorced
in nineteen ninety five, TJ, as the oldest, found his
role in the family evolving, so I kind of had
to play their father figure off like watching over my
(03:28):
other younger siblings. Helping up my mom was just for
life because she was just to stay at home mom
before you know a dad separated. Salome remembers how TJ
stepped up for the family at the time. She came
to confide in her brother about everything in her life.
When I wasn't doing so good in school, I would
(03:48):
go to him and ask him for help on homework
or just anything that I wanted to talk to him about,
even if it was me dating someone. He was very
patient and also always created a s space for me
to go and talk to him about anything I was
going through. TJ was only fourteen at the time and
couldn't help out financially. Yet, when expenses became too much
(04:10):
for his mom, she packed up a car with whatever
they could fit and drove herself and her nine kids
from California to Anchorage, Alaska, where she had family. So
what is living in Alaska like? Living in Alaska's um
It's a pretty, you know, slow motion state. It's pretty
a mellow. At first, I've never seen snow before. So
(04:34):
when we came up here, I was like, wow, this
is nice. You know, it was awesome for the first
I see six months and two I was like, all right,
I mean I'm done with the cold. But things were
still hard for the family. It was a struggle just
to live up in Alaska. We were poor growing up,
you know, and we didn't have the finance to go
(04:55):
get us an apartment, you know, we had to live
with my auntie. And then when we moved up here.
Despite the hardships, TJ has fond memories of his childhood
being with my siblings up here, you know, just all
of us out there and snow and kind of like
just enjoying each other's company, you know, just us bonding
together and being there for each other. Was like that
(05:18):
was all to me. All I wanted to do was
keep the smile on their faces. We were pretty spoiled
because of him. Salome remembers TJ taking his siblings everywhere
he went, like sports games and their favorite hangout, we
always want to chuck e cheese. We went like probably
once a week, literally, but life in their part of
(05:46):
town was rough. I dropped out of tenth grade because
there's a lot of shootings going on and our family
was definitely one of those houses. I was getting shot
at because of you know, certain gangs or whatever they
call each other, clicks up here that we're going through
some battles back and forth. The gangs and anchorage included
(06:08):
Samoan Street gangs that sometimes fought with Tongan gangs, and
they thought that we were involved in that, me and
my siblings, you know, they thought we were involving any
of the gang activities and it wasn't the case, but
we were just caught in a crossfire of things, and
that's what kind of made me and my brothers stepped
out of school, like dropped out. TJ says. At the time,
(06:29):
there was a lot of racism and anchorage against Polynesians.
Polynesians were getting into altercations with the police and stuff
like that at that time, and we were definitely being
frowned upon as far as growing up here with the
law against you know, the poly community back then, and
(06:49):
it was difficult to like, you know, call them for
any kind of help because as soon as they pull
up and find out, oh, there's a poly community or
Polynesian family, didn't they kind of like turned the backs
on us or not even give us a help that
we needed, you know what I mean. After TJ dropped
out of high school, he went on to receive an
education with the Alaska Youth Military Program. It was for
(07:13):
kids that they were troubled youth or whatever and that
didn't graduate, but they given this chance to either you
go there to military or you know, you be able
to get your diploma that way. At this point, TJ
also had a girlfriend, Leona, and when I went into
(07:34):
this youth academy program in ninety nine, come to find
out that we were expecting the kid later on that
year in November, which I had my first son, which
is John tay Moses Edwards. So we got married August fourteenth,
ninety nine and Johns was born eleven seventeen, nineteen ninety nine.
(07:55):
TJ was nineteen at the time. He had been considering
a career in the military, but becoming a father put
a spin on his plans. It was just one of
those things that I fell in love with seeing my
son being born. I didn't want him to grow up
without a father, you know what I mean, being away,
So just me and my siblings growing up without our father.
(08:15):
That's what really made me want to stay home with
him and all the time, and didn't want to go nowhere,
and so I ended up not going to the military. Instead.
TJ took on two jobs in Anchorage, one at Applebee's
and when it's a security guard. He and Leona got
their own place. In the spring of two thousand and one,
(08:38):
TJ and Leona opened their house up to their close
friend Melissa and her one year old son, Derek. Derek
was TJ and Leona's godson, so they didn't hesitate when
Melissa needed a place to live. We didn't want them
to be out there in the streets and I having
nowhere to stay, so we had an extra room and
absolutely I said sure, why not. She ended up moving
(08:59):
in with us, and he started noting, seeing like a pattern.
She loves to go out and have fun, often leaving
Derek and TJ's care but he was fine with that.
You know, I don't mind watching my godson because him
and my son are pretty much, you know, the same age.
(09:19):
Melissa and Leonel worked together, so when TJ wasn't working
and the babysitter was unavailable, TJ took care of both
Derek and John Tay. TJ even got certified as a
caregiver and learned CPR and other first aid. One day,
while TJ was watching the boys, he noticed a scratch
on the back of Derek's head and he mentioned it
(09:39):
to Melissa. He was like, hey, have you noticed anything
wrong with your son's hey? Like, and she was like,
she had no idea where the scratch came from. Derek
had also been sick for a few days. He wasn't
eating and was throwing up a lot. Melissa was already
planning to bring him to the doctor, so we tell there's, well,
(10:00):
you know, you should probably go and have this looked at,
you know, when you go to a doctor. So when
you brought Derek back to the house, we asked him, so,
did you mentioned anything about the head injury? And she
never mentioned it, So we were kind of like stump,
like why not, why didn't you tell the doctor whoever
it was seeing him about, you know, that scratch behind
(10:20):
his head. A few days later, on the morning of
May eighth, two thousand and one, Melissa left Derek with
TJ and John Tay while she went to work. Leona
had already left the house for the day to TJ
was alone with the boys. She brought him in the room.
(10:42):
He was sort of crying a little bit, and then
he stopped crying, and then you know, we went downstairs.
I started cleaning up the house and everything. But soon
TJ noticed Derek wasn't doing well. I noticed him not
responding or it just breathing. Period. When TJ picked him up,
he saw that Derek's eyes were half open and his
(11:04):
fists were clenched. TJ tried blowing air in his face
to arouse him, but Derek was not responding, and so
I immediately I freaked out. I started doing CPR on
them and wrest them, rushing to the hospital instead of
calling nine one one, because TJ still didn't trust the police.
(11:26):
I've had the issues with calling any kind of authorities
or whatever, So my immediate reaction was to make sure
that Derek makes it there. Alive still. This episode is
(11:52):
underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. AIG is
committed to corporate social responsibility and to making a positive
difference in the lives of its employees and in the
communities where they work and live. In light of the
compelling need for pro bono legal assistance and in recognition
of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, the
(12:13):
AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and other
support to underrepresented communities and individuals at the hospital. Once
the doctors took Derek, TJ was left alone to process
what had just happened. They went back there and the
(12:36):
tip favor for them to come. Tell me where was
glonas lay sir, can you go on the front? You
got some class, I want to talk to you, stuff
like that, and I'm like, okay, I'm thinking maybe they'ren't
tend me what's going on, But instead one of the
detectives started questioning him. TJ told the detective everything he knew.
He was just cleaning up the house when he noticed
(12:56):
Derek struggling to breathe. He's saying, now something happened. You
should the baby or something, and I'm like should the baby?
What are you talking about? You know, And I was
kind of dumbfounded about the whole situation, like why are
you accused me? At eight fifty five that night, Derek
(13:19):
was taken off ventilator support and died. Doctors had discovered
that Derek's brain was bleeding and swollen, but showed no
signs of blunt force trauma. Brain bleeding and swelling, bleeding
in the eyes, and little or no evidence of external
trauma were known at the time as the triad supposedly
(13:40):
telltale signs of SPS or shaken baby syndrome. Experts at
the time claimed these injuries had only three known causes,
falls from a three story building, high speed motor vehicle crashes,
or violent shaking. Because he had been the last dult
alone with Derek before his death, TJ immediately became the
(14:04):
only suspect. They're you know, the whole time, they're like
convinced that I did it that morning, you know, like,
oh yeah, look how big he is. And that's what
the detective was kept drilling to me after one years
interview here, like TJ, man, look how big you are.
Like if I was a kid and you were over here,
like shaking me. I would I would be in the
same just and derek'son, I'm like, what are you a
(14:27):
big guy? Yeah? I was. I wouldn't say like a
big guy, but I mean I was. I was too
sixty at that time. I was, you know, pretty athletic
and stuff, and I didn't really see myself as a
as a Polynesian like a big you know, and that's
how they they look at us, you know, They're all
you guys are pretty big people, and so I yeah,
(14:48):
I was kind of like freaking out, like wow, yeah,
actually telling me for me now. The investigation into Derek's
death took nearly six months. During that time, police failed
(15:10):
to investigate any other angles besides SPS. In fact, they
often disregarded evidence that did not point to SPS. For example,
police and doctors ignored the fact that Derek had been
sick before his death, and was in fact taking multiple
medications a doctor had prescribed to address his symptoms. Also,
(15:30):
in the weeks before his death, while being babysat by
two twelve year old girls, Derek suffered a fall. The
police did not ask the babysitters about this, nor did
they follow up on any of his other medical issues.
When Derek first got to the hospital that day, doctors
also noted that he was doing something called posturing, which
(15:50):
is what TJ saw with Derek's clench fists and bent arms.
Posturing is a sign of seizure activity and can also
indicate swelling in the brain. But when doctors discovered the
brain swelling, they then focus their attention on confirming their
suspicions of SBS, ignoring any other possible causes. During the
(16:16):
investigation period, TJ and Leona were still in touch with Melissa.
She didn't blame TJ for the death of her son,
and in fact had told that to the police. She said, yes,
I went to the cops and I told him that
she didn't do it. I know you didn't do it.
You would never do something like this for my son,
because she knew, like I took care of her son
better than she's ever done, you know what I mean.
(16:37):
I've always been there to bathe him, and you know,
whenever she's too tired to care for him or whatnot.
And plus, you know, Derek and my son, like we're
almost the same age and they play with each other.
So when she made that statement that she knew that
she knew I didn't do nothing to her son to
cause this harm all against Derek. They looked at her
as a suspect. They didn't turn her. I say, what
(17:00):
was that. You're a TJ. Now, if you're saying that
TJ didn't do it, then you're the one. And so
that's when she retracted her statement and made another statement.
On October tenth, two thousand and one, TJ was working
one of his jobs when the police showed up. There
(17:22):
is like seven patrol cars that came on base. I
didn't know what was going on. I'd seen my boss
walking with a whole bunch of guys behind them. Those
were the detectives that are coming up to apprehend me
for the charge of the shaking baby Syner case. TJ
(17:48):
was arrested and charged with manslaughter and second degree murder.
Salome was shocked when she found out. She remembers thinking
about her youngest sister, who is teen years younger than TJ.
My mom left my dad when she was only a
week old. So TJ was literally like her father growing up,
(18:09):
and I've seen him like change her diverse, you know,
literally everything. So it was hard to it was hard
to even accept that's what they were charging him with
or arresting him for it, because that's just not what
I could ever imagine him doing. In addition to the charges,
(18:29):
TJ was hit with a double whammy. They even took
my two boys from me when this happened. By this time,
Leona had given birth to their second son, Javin. They
said I couldn't be around my kids until further investigation,
and then when they took my kids from us, I
couldn't believe it. I just felt like it was a nightmare.
(18:53):
I just I still remember that day like vividly right now,
and that's why I was like, man, I just hated
that feeling. TJ's trial started two and a half years
later in March of two thousand and four. The prosecutor
was Adrian Bachmann, and the case against TJ was thin.
(19:17):
They couldn't bring one person on my behalf they ever
say that they saw me be violent, a violent guy,
and will do something to this, you know, to a kid.
The prosecution's entire case rested solely on the idea that
only violently shaking a baby could cause the symptoms Derek had,
and that the injuries could have only happened within a
(19:38):
few hours of Derek's death, when only TJ was home
with him. The testimony at trial was pretty consistent with
if these three symptoms show up, it's child abuse and
shaking baby, and it has to have happened within the
last couple of hours. This is Bill Oberlei. He's the
(19:59):
executive legal director of the Alaska Innocence Project. He says
this was pretty much the only evidence presented at trial.
No signs on Derek of any fresh injuries, no signs
that he was picked up and held tightly and shaken,
no neck injuries. There was nothing presented that would support
(20:22):
provide physical evidence of the allegations they were making. However,
one neighbor did testify to hearing a noise like furniture
dropping quote loud enough that it shook the ceiling. The
prosecution suggested this was TJ slamming Derek on the floor.
So how did the defense respond? That was much of
(20:45):
the defense was that there was no indication of any
fresh injuries. TJ's attorney was Rex Butler. The defense called
one expert witness, doctor Janice Apoven, who was a forensic pathologist.
Doctor Opoven testified that there were indications of iron deposits
(21:09):
in Derek's brain. When blood starts to decompose after bleeding,
like in the brain, iron is formed, and so the
presence of iron in Derek's brain meant that the injury
he suffered would have been five to seven days old,
but that wasn't enough reasonable doubt for the jury. After
(21:32):
three days of deliberations, on April first, two thousand and four,
TJ was convicted of second degree murder. I didn't think
it was real because I got convicted on April Fools Day.
When they say guilty, I looked at my attorney, I say, easy,
did they just say guilty? I was shocked. And what
(21:55):
made it real for me that I knew that they
say guilty was my mom. She started helping out crying
and I looked back at her. I just seen her
just like getting weak and just everybody's trying to pick
her up, and I just started like breaking down. I
can't believe it. It didn't finally hit me until they
closed the door after escorting me back. When they hold people,
(22:19):
it was tough. It was I hate reliving that memory
and I was one memory I was trying to erase,
but it's it's stuck in there. Twenty two year old
TJ was sentenced to twenty years in prison, the minimum
sentence at the time. First, it was a scary you know,
just as scary this is being in cars already. You
(22:43):
see a lot of movies about prison, and you know,
for me to actually be there, and yeah, I didn't
I didn't want to do nothing. I didn't even eat
their food for a whole year. I started questioning that, man,
what did I go wrong? And you know, with my life,
you know, there's a lot of questions going through my head.
I didn't know what to do. Leona brought their kids
(23:21):
to see TJ regularly, but as his years in prison
went on, TJ's relationship with Leona deteriorated. I didn't blame
her for it, you know what I mean. It gets
lonely out there for people. Of course, she has needs
and wants stuff like that they need to be met.
And she ended up going her separate way. And it
(23:43):
was tough to even explain it to my kids, but
they knew what was going on. I in some of
our visits will start kissing and hugging each other. And
then as we started getting years in, they noticing us
just not even doing that. I'm doing that with my kids,
I'm hugging them, and so they started noticing that we're
not holding hands in a disney room. It was definitely tough.
(24:08):
TJ and Leone divorced in twenty ten, but in the
middle of that, TJ got some good news. His sister,
Salome told him she was engaged. The reason why I
even seem potential in my husband's because he reminds me
so much of my brother m bodies, everything that I
could say that I would be looking for in a man.
(24:29):
But Salome told her fiance that they couldn't get married
until TJ was out. She had always dreamed of having
her big brother walk her down the aisle, and because
of that, we were waiting for his appeals they were
getting denied. After about five years, TJ told her not
to wait any longer. He called me and he said,
(24:54):
I don't know why you keep putting your life on hold.
You should go ahead and marry him. And I didn't
want to because I wanted him to be there, but
because he was like, all my appeals are getting denied.
I don't think I'm gonna get out anytime soon, So
stop putting your life on hold for me, and that
was like the hardest thing for me to accept, and
(25:17):
I just remember crying and telling him I didn't want
to But I did eventually get married and he wasn't there,
and it was like it was like I was trying
to be happy, but at the same time, there was
a big part of me that was missing. Life was
(25:37):
passing t J by as he sat in prison. All
I was trying to do was get out as soon
as i could, like going and hating the law library,
learning about my case and just seeing what kind of
what else I can do to help give me out sooner.
And so that's what thought about the Alaska Innocence Project.
He immediately reached out to tell them about his case,
(26:00):
and in twenty eleven he got a letter back from
Bill Oberleigh and he's willing to take over my case
and give it a shot, you know, give me a
second chance to go on the courts. I was like, wow.
I remember calling my family up and just in tears
is of happiness, like, oh wow, this is the second
chance that I've always wanted, I prayed for. I look
(26:22):
forward to it, you know what I mean. So just
to know that I do have a fighting chance to
get out. We at the OSK Innocence Project and all
the innocence projects in America take their jobs really seriously,
and we have to be convinced that our client is
innocent before we are willing to go forward. And that
(26:46):
is my feeling about t J. Edwards, that I have
no doubt that he is innocent. Two eleven was when
the shaking baby syndrome belief was starting to be challenged
in a fairly strong degree. And as I dug deeper
(27:09):
into TJ's case, two things became clear to me. One,
I met TJ and realized what kind of individual he
was and that on one level convinced me that he
could not have done what he was accused of doing
or convicted of doing. And secondly, I looked into the
(27:32):
facts of the case as it related to shaking baby
syndrome and realized that the challenges that were being put
forward on shaking baby cases all pretty much applied to
TJ's case. Today, experts agree that there can be other
explanations for the triad, like seizures or even a short fall.
(27:52):
Bill says that Derek's strange sickness and the symptoms days
before he died clearly showed something else was going on
with him, and that investigators should have considered this the
basis of the conviction. The medical legal testimony that was
the basis of the conviction can no longer support the conviction,
(28:13):
and therefore it is a wrongful conviction that needs to
be overturned. Four years Bill worked on preparing TJ's appeal,
but in twenty fifteen, twenty years after he was first incarcerated,
TJ was released on parole. He completed his parole term
in the summer of twenty twenty one. Although TJ is
(28:34):
no longer a prisoner of the state, he is still
labeled a convicted baby killer. I'm somewhat free. I'm still
with my name not clear. That's how I look at
I'm still incarcerated still, you know what I mean, Until
everything is exhausted and getting clear from the system, that's
I look at being free. Meanwhile, TJ is trying to
(28:56):
adjust to life outside prison. I ain't gonna lie this
whole incarceration. That definitely I lost, like my joy in life,
as far as like all the fun things I used
to love. I used to love Christmas, I used to
love birthdays. I used to love anniversaries. I used to
love like just celebration. Right when I got out, I
(29:19):
feel like if I was to be celebrated and like happy,
like you'll get taken away from me, just like that.
If I have too much fun, it's gonna get taken away.
And that's what incarceration did for me. In twenty eighteen,
Bill filed a post conviction challenge to TJ's conviction, stating
(29:42):
that the changes in forensic evidence invalidate the conviction. They
are still in litigation. The fact that a short fall
cannot cause these injuries is no longer valid testimony. How
many doctors do you need to come forward and say that.
(30:05):
TJ is now working at an oil field in the
North Slope Borough in Alaska and is saving to buy
a home for his family. He's remarried to a woman
named Morgan, is a father to her children, Caden and Victoria,
and of course continues to have a relationship with both
of his sons from his first marriage. His family is
planning to move to California to be closer to Salome,
(30:27):
who is ecstatic her best friend is out of prison.
What I love about him too, is that even if
he's in a shower or doing something. He always picks up.
So it's great to be able to have that communication
and for me to be able to call him instead
of having a wait until he is available. I was
just laughing about this the other day because because of him,
(30:49):
I FaceTime a lot now. TJ is very much He
doesn't like calling just on the phone. He wants to
FaceTime all the time. TJ says now that he's he
wants to continue to mentor kids like he used to
do his own siblings and as he did in prison.
I felt like I was a therapist in there, you know,
(31:10):
giving out advices and some of the people I have
relationships now when I get out, they're the reason why
I'm up here. I'm a slope now, you know, having
a good job up here. I feel like my work
here in Alaska is not done as far as like,
you know, wanting to go out here and speaking to
(31:30):
some of the youth up here and just share my story,
you know, with them. This can happen to you. You know,
if you're you're thinking you got a perfect life going
and a snap of a finger, you're just on the
other side now. To help support the Alaska Innocence Project.
(31:50):
Go to Alaska Innocence Project dot org or check out
the links in our bio. Next time on Wrongful Conviction
with Maggie Freeling, Gwen Graham, let's think I know of
the police are coming down to talk to me. They said,
(32:10):
your ex girlfriend said that you killed somebody at an
earsing home, and I laughed at him. I second believe
you came down here for that bullshit. But then when
they charge me with I think four and more, That's
when I started losing it. Thanks for listening to Wrongful
Conviction with Maggie Freeling. Please support your local innocence organizations
(32:32):
and go to the links in our bio to see
how you can help. I'd like to thank our executive
producers Jason Flam and Kevin Wurdis, as well as our
senior producer Annie Chelsey, producer Lila Robinson, and story editor
Sonja Paul. The show is edited and mixed by Annie Chelsey,
with additional production by Jeff Cleburne and Connor Hall. The
music in this production is by three time OSCAR nominated
(32:54):
composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram
at Wrongful Conviction on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast and
on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava
for Good. On all three platforms, you can also follow
me on both Instagram and Twitter at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful
Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a production of Lava for
(33:14):
Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Come hang with Amy Poehler. Each week on her podcast, she'll welcome celebrities and fun people to her studio. They'll share stories about their careers, mutual friends, shared enthusiasms, and most importantly, what's been making them laugh. This podcast is not about trying to make you better or giving advice. Amy just wants to have a good time.