June 3, 2024 • 42 mins
In December 1998, 81-year old Mary Bramlett was killed in a drive-by shooting near Whittier, CA. That same night, Miguel Solorio went to the movies with his new girlfriend Silvia Torres then to a party hosted by Miguel’s sister. Despite many alibi witnesses and no physical evidence to tie him to the murder, Miguel was ultimately convicted of the crime.
But Miguel’s wrongful conviction didn’t stop Silvia from loving him — or from pouring everything she had into proving his innocence. When the system failed her, she decided to take the investigation into her own hands and bravely fight for Miguel’s freedom.
Wrongful Conviction with Lauren Bright Pacheco is a production of Lava for Good™ Podcasts in association with Signal Co. No1.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Tens of thousands of people incarcerated in the US have
been wrongfully convicted and are being held in captivity for crimes,
even as they adamantly maintain their innocence. What's it like
to be one of those imprisoned people, and what's it
like to be their ally, the one outside committed to
fighting for their freedom. I'm Lauren Brade Pacheco, and this
(00:28):
is wrongful conviction. Miguel Salario was falsely accused of taking
part in a drive by shooting when he was nineteen
years old. On the evening of December seventh, nineteen ninety eight,
eighty one year old Mary Bramlett was driving home in Woodyeer, California,
(00:51):
when two men drove up in a car and opened fire,
fatally shooting her for no apparent reason. A group of
eyewitnesses had interacted with a vehicle matching the gunman's description
earlier that same night, and they were interviewed by police.
Miguel's Solario was identified by a couple of these eyewitnesses
(01:11):
and ultimately sentenced to life in prison without parole, despite
having an alibi and no physical evidence ever tied him
to the crime. Today, I'm happy to welcome Miguel's solario
to wrongful conviction, and we also have with us Sylvia Celario,
Miguel's wife, who has been an important part of his
(01:32):
case from the very beginning. Thank you too so much
for joining me and for sharing your story with everyone.
Just to go back and to start from the very beginning, Miguel,
could you tell me a little bit about your childhood,
where you grew up and what your family life was like.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I was born in July seventh of nineteen seventy nine.
I was born in Mexico and michal Kan. I have
three older brothers and two older sisters. Mom. Mom came
to the United States because they wanted a better life,
and at that time she wasn't with my father no
more so while I was six months she left me.
My other sisters were taking care of me, so I
(02:12):
was like kind of raced without my mother at that time.
She came to West La Los Angeles, and then about
nineteen eighty two, I ended up going to the United
States for the American dream, you know, and my other
brothers and sisters came along too, and happened to be
raised there in Silver Lake by Eco Park in West
La it was a crampy little house, like a one
(02:34):
bedroom with like probably a little size of of closet.
It was two bunk bits to my top brothers would
be in the bottom. My two brothers will be in
the bottom bunk, and I'll be with my other brother
on the top bunk and my other sister on the floor.
That's how cramped up it was. And I remember one
time waking up like at twelve o'clock at night and
I was so hungry. I was probably like seven or
(02:55):
eight years old. I turned the lights from the kitchen.
You see all these cockroaches just storming in and everything.
So I said, you know what, I don't want this
kind of property. I want to achieve something and do
good something with my life. Because I was like smart,
quiet kid, you know, I want to don't want to
live this kind of environment. I want to do good.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
You had older brothers when you moved from Mexico. What
was the community like? And we're gangs a big part
of the community, you know what.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Growing up I was just associating with, like with the
wrong crowd and everything. You know, I was abandoned, neglected,
and they gave me like some kind of like affection
like my parents couldn't give me because me, I like
to party, have fun, drink and have a good time.
And you know, especially when your youth, that's where you
get to meet girls, have good time, work and everything.
You know, that's not a crime to meet people, you know,
(03:45):
So it was.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
More like a social outlet for you. Yes, but it's
something that was used against you because the police then
had you on their radar because of it. Yes, Now
you know you mentioned that you were a smart kid,
and you showed that promise academically too. How did you
(04:09):
get the nickname clever?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
So it happens to be that out of all the
crowd I was hanging around with, I was the only
one that really was going to school, educating myself and
trying to accomplish a dream, my vision I had trying
to do some succeed in life. So that's how the
name came about.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
What were your dreams? What were your ambitions when you
were a young teenager?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So back in the nineties, I remember in the nineties
of Microsoft, I loved computers for high school, and I said,
you know what, after I graduate, I'm going to work
in an office one day and climb the ladder. I
want to dress on a sue ties dress is shoes
and just claim the latter. That was my vision. So
sure enough, I was the first one of my family
(04:52):
to graduate high school. I was trying to set a
good example class of ninety seven. And right after that
I started going to college. You know, I was like,
you know what, I'm on the major in business management.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
All right now. At this same time, a lovely young
lady by the name of Sylvia had already entered your life.
Tell me a little bit about first laying eyes on Sylvia.
How did you guys meet and what did you think?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
One time we had like a little kickback and it
was like twenty my friends and a lot of girls.
And I remember I'm always looking around and I see
this pretty woman sitting on the couch. Plus she had
long hair too at that time, like very long, and
I love long hair. So I approached her, I introduced
myself and we started talking and then she's like, hey,
(05:38):
so what are you do in life? And I'm like, oh,
I work in a warehouse fifty to fifty five hours
a week and I also go to college. And she
kind of doubted me. So I was like, you want
to see my college ID.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
That's why I say, never told a book by a discover. Yeah,
I didn't believe him, but then he pulled out his
college ID, so you know, I saw he had something
going for himself, and you know, we just started talking
and exchanged phone numbers and got to know each other
from there.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
What was it about the connection that you guys had
that made this feel so different for you? Sylvia?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
His personality. He's got a great outgoing personality, always happy, smiling,
so during the moments I would be feeling down, he
would just be there to lift me up. So it
was just like that connection that we had.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
What what was it about Sylvia? How was she different
from other girls you'd known and you dated.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I felt so much connection went there because I'm always
kind of like a hermit right there. But with hers,
She'll come and let's go to Santa Monica Beach, and
I loved that. I was like, you know what, I
like that going to the Griffith Park Observatory looking at
the stars, just me and her bonding doing things together.
So I was like, man, I like this relationship.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
You told me me that your dreams for the future
up until that point were computers and climbing the corporate ladder.
Now it sounds like Sylvia became part of that future too.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yes, and she was also going to college too, working,
so we were always like, you know, trying to accomplish
goals with one another, like she was doing something and
she was doing something. But she ended up getting her
AA degree, so she accomplished her dream. Unfortunately with me,
like I was starting college and just with the blink
of an eye, my life just got stolen. I was like, WHOA, unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
So it wasn't nine months later that both of your
worlds entirely changed after meeting at that party.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yes, both of our lives just changed, the whole one
pint eighty and all that completely.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Take me to the night that changed everything for both
of you.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So that day of December sixth and ninety eight, it
was a Sunday, my day off from work in school.
So remember we were talking and I was like, hey,
what do you want to do today? She's like, watch
a good movie. We'll watch you right there and Wado
really send them was in uptown Waditer, So she decided
to pick that movie cycle. So we end up going
and for some reason, the movie was kind of boring.
(08:30):
I'm not even enjoying it. She's like, well, you know what,
let's leave. So we went out. We're leaving and she
spoke to the manager. His name was John Murray, and
she's like, hey, I would like to get a refund
on this movie. Mister Murray goes, well, I cannot give
you a refund. What we could do is I can
give you two free passes. You could come watch any
(08:50):
movies whenever you guys want. That's bargain. That's cool, all right.
So he gave us two step tickets and we took off.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
And then Sylvia, why don't you pick it up from there?
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, so after the movies, we just we drove down
with your boulevard and went to his sister, Sandra's house
and peta Riverta. She had a little gathering there and
that's where we remained the rest of the night.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
So you guys are hanging out there, and then at
some point, Miguel, your brother Pedro leaves to go get beer.
I think did he ever come back while you guys
were there?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Not that I recall, you know, because we're there probably
like close to midnight, you know, And we end up
leaving like wrong midnight or so, she dropped me off
at my house and waitier and I told her, hey,
when you get home, Paige me so I could know
you got home safe. So she ended up paging me,
and we spoke out into like one thirty word of
(09:48):
both like you hang up, no, you hang up, you know,
one of them kind of things at that time. So
we're like, you know what, let's just hang up. At
the same time, we end up hanging I go, really,
I go. We got both hang up because we both
have a busy schedule for tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
So it was just an ordinary night for you two.
But that same evening, an eighty one year old woman
named Mary Bramlett was shot from another car while she
was stopped at a red light and later died. Six
people who were driving in a car nearby and had
seen the shooter minutes before, were later called as witnesses
(10:21):
by the police, and one of them, Angelica Martinez, thought
that she had heard someone shout your nickname, Clever, and
that she maybe recognized you based on a photo array
she was shown by police, but she wasn't positive. And
then what happened next Miguel So.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
On December ninth. Three days later, I believe like around
six or seven in the morning, you know, I was
Bredy getting ready to go to school and go get
my day started.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
I remember that day clearly. There was probably about twenty
cop cars surrounding his house. Looking out the window and
I'm like, oh my god, why are these cop cars here?
I mean, we had no clue. I had no clue
what was going on.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
So they raid my house and I'm like, what's going on?
Like swarmed in and they handcuffed me, and you're being
on the rest we got to question. You're like, okay, I.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Was even treated as a criminal. They put me in
the cop car. I was only nineteen. You know, I
can be intimidating. I've never been inside of a cop
car before. Once they had searched the whole house, I
remember one of the officers had told me what they
were trying to charge Migul for, and I told him, like,
that's impossible. He was with me the whole time. He
(11:32):
couldn't have done this, you know. And from that Sunday
it was an ordinary day that me and him had
spent together. And three days later, like your whole life
just changes.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
And so you guys get to the station and then
what happens, you.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Know, Like they took me and tied to Picco diveda
shares and they questioned me. They read me my rights
and everything, and they're like, what did you do? December sixth,
nineteen ninety. They're like, oh, well, you want to turning
go no, I'll cooperate. I'll tell you exactly what I'm
what I did, and what same story that I was
with her and everything, just like that I was with
her and I was, you know, my whole day because
(12:11):
my day off from work. They didn't really say too much,
like hey, we're for investigating this and murdering. I'm like, huh,
you know, like I have no knowledge where you guys
tell me and you guys are excusing me of something
I have no knowledge of. So they helped me for
like seventy two hours, you know. And during those seventy
two hours, the homicide detective mcadary's like, you know, where
(12:31):
me go. I know you had nothing to do with it.
Here's my card. Go do my investigation, go find out
who did it. If not, I'm gonna come after you
whether you did it or not.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
So Detective macldairy said you saw this for me or
I'm charging you with the crime exactly now. Was that
the first time you had ever met Detective mackldery.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yes, that was the only time I ever heard of
that name macldery.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
You know, had you ever had any run ins with
the law before that.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I had a dui before with a CHP officer, but
I never been to in and out of prison. Don't
got no criminal history or nothing like that. So all
I've been really arrested was like for like a misdemeanor.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
And then two days later they have to release you
because there's not sufficient evidence to keep you.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
They raised in my house, they didn't find nothing, no weapons,
no nothing, they have nothing. They released me on a
Friday night. So after I got released, I told Siviy,
you know what, we have to go back to the theaters,
go retreat a surveilliance tape, so we go show the
credibility of what we're saying is the truth. So we
went back on Sunday and we went and we talked
to mister John Murray. I told him the situation, I'm
(13:48):
being falsely accused. I need to first, I told you,
I need the surveillians tape he goes, you still got
your stuff ticket He goes, Yeah, he goes, I got
some good news and some bad news. The bad news
is that the surveillians tape rewinds every two hours and
then records over the same take. But if you want,
I remember you guys, he goes, here's my home phone
number and my office if you guys need me to
(14:09):
have your attorney contact me and everything.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Because you guys both knew that you not only had
an alibi, you were one another's alibis. Were you sure
that this would just blow over, Miguel.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
You know what, like I never I never knew that
this would actually happen, you know, I was, like you
believe in the justice system and everything. Like I was
just still I'm still shot disappointed.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Actually, so, Sylvia, you also had interaction with the same detective.
Can you tell me about being questioned by Detective macaldairy
and how you felt about those interactions?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
As time passed by, mcaelderry and another detective came to
my job in Baldwin Park where I was working at
at the time, and started questioning me. They even threatened
me if I wasn't saying the truth, they were going
to throw me in behind bars. I was looking at
jail time, so, you know, a lot of intimidation trying
(15:12):
to take me to jail because they thought I was
covering up for him.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Did they ever try to get you to turn on
the goun.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
They tried to get me to turn on him. They
would ask me questions as far as he was ever
mean to me, or you know, he's a dangerous person,
you need to stay away from him, and like none
of that is even true.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
And then it's kind of like you were thrown into
the court of public opinion even before you even saw
the inside of a courtroom, because the day you were arrested,
your photo was plastered on the front page of the
local paper.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yes, when I got released afterwards, my whole face was
shown in the newspaper with your daily news on the
media of the news, and I was so humiliated. Pull
yourself from my shoes. Your face is being human aid
telling the world that you come into a crime, that
you killed this individual, and your whole faate muction's right there.
How humiliating could that be? You know, it's like the
(16:12):
worst feeling of person could feel.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
You know, But after your photo had been made public
two of the people who had been in that second
car were again shown your picture in a photo array,
this time on a group of people who were gathered
near a van in the Quiet Village Gangs area. You
were in that group, Miguel, but about fifteen feet away
(16:34):
from the van. The police claimed that they found a
three point fifty seven revolver underneath the van, and they
connected it to the Mary Bramlet shooting and then to
you through an informant who said it was your gun
even though it was not. And then a month later
you were arrested again.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Like I mentioned maclberry, since I was in cooperative man,
I had no knowledge, Soul, I didn't do his dirty job.
He's like, you know what I told Migil, whether he
was gifts or now all going to come after he
kept this word, they found that three fifty seven. I'm
not knowing that's the weaponr what it was. And again
here comes again storming in my house, marsh on fifth,
(17:18):
and they arrest me. I was like again, like like,
what's going on here? And this nightmare is turning it
all over again.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
So, Sylvia, how did you find out that he was
arrested for the second time?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
My sister in law at the time. She called me
and she said, hey, you know, they arrested Miguel second time.
I'm like what I was like, Oh my goodness, Like
this nightmare it's about to begin, you know. And it
was a horrible feeling.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Miguel, you're charged with first degree murder for the shooting
of Bramlett and six counts of assault with a firearm
for all of the passengers that were also in the
other vehicle.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I remember in August of ninety nine, I went to
court and I remember the Diegos honored we're going to
drop the death penalty on Miguel and we're going to
give him life without the possibility of parole. And I
was just shocked, like, oh, these people are trying to
kill me. If they were trying to give me the
death penalty, like are you serious?
Speaker 1 (18:18):
And so you knew going into that trial that you
were up against the system in a horrible way. What
was that like that period for both of you as
he's awaiting trial, because you've been taken away from life
(18:38):
as you know it, and you've been taken away from
each other. Sylvia, how did you try to support Miguel
during that time?
Speaker 3 (18:48):
It was hard because for me about the justice system
took someone that meant so much to me. They took
him away, and that feeling is it was like an
agony feeling, a feeling of agony that of anguish you
just you can't control. So I have to learn how
(19:08):
to accept. Okay, they took him away, and after adapting
accepting what had happened, I learned to cope with it
and be you know, his basically his advocate.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
What point did you make that decision? Did you realize
that you were going to be there for him no
matter what.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Since day one, since the time of the incident that happened.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Miguel, would you have just assumed that after nine months,
this young woman with a bright future and ambitions would
stick to you and stick by you the way she has.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I remember that, as I mentioned about that penalty, I
give her a car and I explained to her what happened.
And she's a Miguel, You're completely innocent. I know for fact,
I was with you that night. We're gonna fight, and
from that moment on, we were determined to, you know,
do whatever it takes to fight and get justice. Be
your voice, be heard, to find no matter.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
What right, and then Miguel. The trial began in February
of two thousand. Two of the witnesses from the second
car were called to testify. Martin Leva identified Miguel, but
Angelica Martinez admitted on the stand that she wasn't sure
it was you. She said, it kind of looked like you.
(20:33):
And that's interesting because, as it would turn out, it
was your brother, Pedro, who was in the car that night,
in a car that was registered to your father.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
So the interesting part about Angelica, right on the first
sixpect they showed to the witnesses, did not select me.
They selected somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
And so in six pack, you mean the photos of
suspects that they show the witnesses a.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Lineup, you have like a six different individuals. On the
first one, I didn't even get picked out. The second time,
Angelica selects my picture right after I came out in
the media, and everything contaminates the mind of a witness.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
And they actually the defense brought your brother Pedro into
the courtroom and on the stand, Angelica couldn't identify you
as the driver. Exactly what was it like sitting in
that courtroom and having that unfold, because it becomes increasingly
(21:37):
obvious that it's not just a case of mistaken identity.
You've been mistaken for your brother.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, just like the whole situation, like being involved, being
in the newspaper, and just being costly excused by these
two people. It's just like so David's so hard, sad,
It's just like wow, like mind blowing. That's how I
was feeling at that moment.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
And as mi Guel's alibi witness, Sylvia, you were called
to testify, but you weren't allowed to watch the trial.
What was that like for you?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
When the trial started meeping his alibi? I thought, Okay,
this is going to be easy. You know everything that
I had told mackelderry. I thought it was just all
going to come forward. But obviously they withheld they withheld,
you know, evidence that could have helped Miguel. So I
thought everything was told, but obviously he turned everything around
(22:33):
to his advantage.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Well, you didn't bank on the fact that, even though
you were his alibi, that a detective would end up
going on the stand, misrepresenting the two interviews you had
with him and lying on the stand, which ultimately discredited
you and weakened your strength as his alibi.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Right, You think that the officer would literally speak the truth,
you know, but under old he falsified information. You know,
she had got interviewed by him at her job, you know,
and Detective macadery did not produce that tape, and that's
how he discredit her credibility, making her say that she
(23:18):
was just covering up for me.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And then the guy who linked you to that revolver
in the first place ended up admitting that he just
signed whatever the detectives gave him because he didn't want
to get in trouble.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yes, he said he stated that he was threatened by
mcadairy and he was so scared that he said that
he heard about mcadery, what the things he could do,
just put put people in prison for something that he knew,
and he was scared and that's why he stated that.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Okay, so this is this is the the clencher for me.
So then the defense also were able to call McElderry
to this stand and he admitted that one he had
not investigated Pedro as an alternate suspect, and that he
(24:12):
had not investigated your alibi. So that's how you're leading
into the jury going into deliberation for three days I
think that having heard the state's case against you and
the defense that your attorney mounted, that you must have felt,
(24:35):
of course, the jury is going to decide in your favor.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I was feeling conflict, feeling like optimistic. You always got
to hope for the best no matter what situation you're in.
And after the third day of deliberation, if they have
reached a verdict, and I'm standing right there again, I
remember we the jury find Miguel Solaurier guilty of first
degree murder, and I remember looking at the DA and
she looked at me and she just winked at me,
(24:59):
like I got you. In my mind's like man, you're
making a mistake. You got the wrong individual, you know.
And that's when my life changed, right.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I can't I can't imagine the way that must have
felt on so many levels, because you are now being
sentenced to life for something you had nothing to do with,
but your brother may have very well been a part
(25:38):
of and he didn't defend you. Miguel, did you just
feel betrayed by the system, by your family, by your brother.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I was just like lost in translation that how could
this actually happened? To me? Like wow, Like you feel
your heart just shattered, crushed.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
I was at home at the time. I remember getting
that phone call I believe was one of his family members.
They had told me they found him guilty, and that's
when I just i just broke down, broke down crying.
I'm like, no, how could this be. Once the verdict
came back as guilty, that's when you know your whole
(26:21):
life just changes.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Do you remember that first time that you saw him
after he was convicted, Sylvia.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
I do. It was at the county jail, not a
good place. It was very emotional, you know, seen him
behind glass, not being able to hug him. You know,
it was an emotional time for me.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
How would you describe to somebody who hasn't experienced but
that feeling of helplessness when someone you love has been
convicted of a crime they didn't come.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Out agony, feelings of agony, fatness. You feel helpless with
the situation someone you know being ripped out of your
life from the justice system that you trust. They failed us.
It was hard for me to accept what had happened
(27:22):
to Miguel and to me.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
As well, like knowing the fact that when you have
a life without sentence, you're never going to see your mom.
You're never gonna see day like you're not gonna see
your dad, and you're never gonna see your brother's, sister's
nieces anybody. I was like, you know what, I do
not want to die in prison. I want to fight
no matter what, because life of doubt, your break is
basically dying in prison no matter what.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
You're listening to Wrongful Conviction with Lauren Bright Pacheco. You
can listen to this and all the Love of for
Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing
to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. You guys
(28:15):
make the decision three years after his conviction to get married.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Well before the three years, he had asked me to
marry him. It was at the county jail and I
said yes, and Niguel, you want to take it from there?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yes, And it was September twenty fifth of two thousand
and four when we got married. So I liked that
song by Earthwind and Fire or September, so it reminds
me of that moment, you know, And it was magical.
It was something something new.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Because I mean it wasn't your traditional marriage, you know,
ceremony wasn't your traditional ceremony. But when you love someone,
you just you go for it. You know that's the
person you want to be with.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Well, I went to visit, and I remember I wrote
my little vowels she as a matter of fact, the
same paper I wrote my vow she carries it with
her in her wallet everywhere she goes.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
If you'll share, what's one special part of them, what
really sticks out to you as so very special?
Speaker 3 (29:19):
The part where he says from the moment I laid
eyes on you, that's the part that sticks out so
this very day.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
And that party when you were sitting on the couch,
she knew he was looking at his future.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Wife, and I didn't even know.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
You guys are still in your early twenties when you
make the decision to get married. What did your friends
and family think, Sylvia? Did they ever ever think that
you were potentially throwing your life away?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
I did have family members that try to stop me
from getting married. However, I didn't let that stop me
from making my decision. I fell in love with Miguel
and ended up getting married to him, despite people trying
to convince me otherwise.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
So that's a beautiful bright spot in this really dark story.
Because the story doesn't end with that happy moment, it
goes on for nearly another two decades. What were the
darkest times for both of you? And that was there
(30:30):
any point where you thought this is too much taking
on the entire system.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
A couple of the darkest times for me personally was
the lockdowns when I couldn't see him from months, because
prison sometimes things happen Riot's breakout. Mind you, I've never
stepped to a prison in my life until I started
visiting Miguel, So being in that environment, seen the surroundings,
(31:01):
and having to deal with lockdowns, not being able to
see him, that that was very hard.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Miguel. That was your day in, day out, twenty four
to seven for days, weeks, months, years. When did it
get too much for you?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
You know? You guess that when your loved ones one
three because visits are from like eight thirty to three o'clock,
So you see your loved one leaving, you wish you
could just hold their hands, just go leave with them,
like take me with you, you know. But then like
two thousand and nine, fifteen, I believe you know, we
(31:39):
wrote the Innocence Project again and they finally say we
can't help you. So we hit another dead end. That time,
depression did hit me pretty bad and I got real sick,
like to the point where I almost died in there.
I used to weigh one hundred and eighty six pounds,
and I got so depressed, hit me so bad that
(32:00):
I wasn't eating, I wasn't being responsive, and I dropped
so much weigh within like three to four weeks, I
was just on my bed. It's just you know, sick,
and I ended up going all the way to one
hundred and nineteen pounds.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
At that point, he was going to die on me
if something wasn't you know, going to happen. So we
had to do an emergency conservatorship. And I remember at
that time questioning myself, Am I making the right decisions
and just praying, praying about it and just having that
faith that hope that everything will come together, making the
(32:40):
decision Okay, he needs a fitting tube, let's go for it.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
And what was that like emotionally when he was giving
up all hope physically and mentally for you, Sylvia.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Trying to support him, trying to lift up his spirits,
you know, tell him, don't worry. We got this, we
can't give up.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
You underwent electric shock therapy.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yes, I went to ect electric convulsive treatment like four
to five times, right, And I mustn'tdmit. That's like the
worst pain a human being could Actually, it's almost like
picture this. You know if you put your two hands
in the socket of the electricity socket and you hold
on to it and you just hear fee electricity. Well,
(33:25):
that's exactly what I was feeling. And I remember they
used to tie me down. I even got burdmarks right
here in the back of my thing and on my legs.
The last one I was going to shock therapy in
the hospital, I was just like as soon as they
turned on the electricity for five minutes, I was yelling
on top of my like, turn this off. It's the worst,
(33:46):
you know, in the agony, you know, just it's like
when you get shocked, you want to let go, but
imagine not able to let go with electricity. And they
were so painful that the only side of that it
did give me was that it wiped out my memory
from like two thousand ten to two thousand and sixteen
(34:07):
and wiped my memory. It wiped out my whole like
a couple of years out of my mind, like I
don't remember being in this prison, you know. But the
only part that I'm grateful that I know who Sylvia is,
who my mom is, who my sisters are, and who
my siblings. But I told you know what, I'm grateful
for that I didn't forget the moment I married you,
(34:29):
and I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
While all of this is going on, Sylvia, you've also
decided that part of how you're gonna fight it is
basically by becoming a private investigator. Right. You end up
knowing that there are some important pieces to this puzzle,
and many of them hinged with Miguel's brother Pedro, who
(34:54):
has been writing you letters since two thousand and seven.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Well, during that time in a federal prison, him writing me,
it was just casual pretty much, you know, just touching base.
But I remember one of them being I wanted to
get an investigator, you know, to investigate mcgl's case. He
had told me I was wasting my time, wasting my
money if I did. He wanted to see me in
(35:19):
person and tell me what really went down that night. Well,
only a person who knows what went down that night
would know. So at that time, I saved. I saved
all the letters, any emails, anything that would help mcgil's case,
I saved. And then I just I went from there
(35:42):
just trying to put the puzzle together, all the pieces together,
doing my own investigation.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
And so you were able to get a statement from
a woman who was involved with Pedro at that time
or saw him with a that night.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Yes, so I hired a private investigator and she took
the declaration of another person who gave more details in
regard to that.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Okay, And basically that connected Pedro to a weapon the
night of the incident. And how did someone named Jose
Perez come into the picture.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
That night of the incident when that happened that night,
I remember meeting a person named Jose. The only thing
I remember about him was he had big ears and
he had a white T shirt. That's all I remember.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
That's interesting because one of the witnesses had mentioned that
the person had big ears, and so Jose was very
likely the guy that Pedro left the gathering with that night.
So you had all these pieces of the puzzle in
your hands, and then you were able to connect with
an atturn Ernie, who's another hero in the story. Ellen Eggers.
(37:04):
She agreed to take your case pro bono and also
brought it to the Northern California Innocence Project. Correct Ellen.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
I remember her telling me, Miguel, you know what, I
got good news to you to tell you I've been retired.
I want to take two cases, and I'm going to
take yours. And I was like, thank you. You know,
she's just like, she's the kind of attorney I always
believe that she was the one immediately. She's the type
of attorney. She's like a pit bull. She's no little
(37:34):
chiwala turn, she's a pip like, go get her, go
get things done. And that's the kind of we needed
an attorney, and that's the good ultimate attorneys you need.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
So once Ellen took his case, you know, it took
so many years, but all the pieces were starting to
come together and like, okay, maybe this is it, this
is the turning point of the life changing.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
And it happened fast. I mean after yeah, you know,
almost twenty five years, so over two decades of justice
moving like a frozen slug on this case and everything
you guys were doing, falling on death fears. It happened
in almost lightning speed. Your conviction was vacated and all
(38:16):
charges against you were dropped. In November of twenty twenty three,
you were declared factually in a cent a month later.
Take me to the moment that he walked out of
prison a free man.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Sylvia, Oh my goodness, where do I begin. This was
tears of joy, of happiness when he walked out. I'm like,
oh my goodness, Like, this is what I've been fighting
for all these years, not just having my husband out,
but having an innocent man finally free after so many
(38:51):
years brought me the biggest joy in my life.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Miguel, I remember the moment they finally said like actually
insud like man, it was just it's like a dream.
You know when you have a good dream. It's a
beautiful and you wake up. You're like, oh, lets see
if I could go back to sleep and dream the
same dream. Well, it's a dream. That's reality finally, Like,
it's real reality of innocence. I'm happy.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
So you know, you mentioned how incredible Ellen was as
the attorney who made all the difference in this case,
but she said, had it not been for his main
alibi witness, Sylvia, who knew he was innocent, stood by
him and married him after his conviction, he might never
(39:36):
have seen this day. What words do you use to
describe the gratitude you have for your wife.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
I value everything she has been for me. She's been
my voice, She's been there every step of the way.
They say this is my favorite quote, and this is
like a true friend walks in when the rest of
the world walks out. Well, you know, that's and a blessing.
She's been my advokay, you know. And we fought together,
and she was always believed in us, and we came
(40:07):
to this point. I just want to say thank you,
saving for always helping me fight for justice, for always
being there no matter what situation I faced, You always
there for me.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Thank you, Miguel. Did you ever think that we would
last this long? Despite this long journey and the ups
and downs? Did you think we would ever last this long?
Twenty five years later.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
As soon as I started after I got convicted, I
had a vision in my mind, like you know what,
the love we have for one another, the connection that
felt for you, what I felt in my heart, it's
going to be possible? Then possible? Is it possible? And
that's how I see my vision that that to this day.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Yeah, because sometimes you think, Okay, is this situation going
to break you or is it going to make you stronger?
And reflecting back at everything is it's only made us
a lot stronger. Having that hope, that faith, that perseverance.
You don't become bitter, You just you become more wise
(41:12):
and more humble with the situation.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Right. We value each other, We don't take each other
for granted, and we just keep pushing no matter what,
and we stay had and half marching forward no matter
what situation we phase.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Wow, you guys very much meant those vows you took
while you were in prison. Yes, thank you for listening
to Wrongful Conviction. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco. Please support your
(41:49):
local innocence organizations and go to the links in the
episode description to see how you can help. I'd like
to thank our executive producers Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, and
Kevin Wardis, as well as our producers Annie Chelsea, Kathleen Fink,
and Jackie Pauley. This series is produced, edited, and hosted
by me Lauren Bright Pacheco. Our senior producer is Kara Kornhaber.
(42:12):
Story editing by Hannah bial research by Shelby Sorels, mixing
and sound design by Nick Massetti, with additional production by
Jeff Clyborne. Our theme music is by Jay Ralph. Be
sure to follow us across all social media platforms at
Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also
follow me on all platforms at Lauren Bright Pacheco. Wrongful
(42:35):
Conviction is a production of Lava for Good podcasts in
association with Signal Company Number one
Tens of thousands of people incarcerated in the US have
been wrongfully convicted and are being held in captivity for crimes,
even as they adamantly maintain their innocence. What's it like
to be one of those imprisoned people, and what's it
like to be their ally, the one outside committed to
fighting for their freedom. I'm Lauren Brade Pacheco, and this
(00:28):
is wrongful conviction. Miguel Salario was falsely accused of taking
part in a drive by shooting when he was nineteen
years old. On the evening of December seventh, nineteen ninety eight,
eighty one year old Mary Bramlett was driving home in Woodyeer, California,
(00:51):
when two men drove up in a car and opened fire,
fatally shooting her for no apparent reason. A group of
eyewitnesses had interacted with a vehicle matching the gunman's description
earlier that same night, and they were interviewed by police.
Miguel's Solario was identified by a couple of these eyewitnesses
(01:11):
and ultimately sentenced to life in prison without parole, despite
having an alibi and no physical evidence ever tied him
to the crime. Today, I'm happy to welcome Miguel's solario
to wrongful conviction, and we also have with us Sylvia Celario,
Miguel's wife, who has been an important part of his
(01:32):
case from the very beginning. Thank you too so much
for joining me and for sharing your story with everyone.
Just to go back and to start from the very beginning, Miguel,
could you tell me a little bit about your childhood,
where you grew up and what your family life was like.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I was born in July seventh of nineteen seventy nine.
I was born in Mexico and michal Kan. I have
three older brothers and two older sisters. Mom. Mom came
to the United States because they wanted a better life,
and at that time she wasn't with my father no
more so while I was six months she left me.
My other sisters were taking care of me, so I
(02:12):
was like kind of raced without my mother at that time.
She came to West La Los Angeles, and then about
nineteen eighty two, I ended up going to the United
States for the American dream, you know, and my other
brothers and sisters came along too, and happened to be
raised there in Silver Lake by Eco Park in West
La it was a crampy little house, like a one
(02:34):
bedroom with like probably a little size of of closet.
It was two bunk bits to my top brothers would
be in the bottom. My two brothers will be in
the bottom bunk, and I'll be with my other brother
on the top bunk and my other sister on the floor.
That's how cramped up it was. And I remember one
time waking up like at twelve o'clock at night and
I was so hungry. I was probably like seven or
(02:55):
eight years old. I turned the lights from the kitchen.
You see all these cockroaches just storming in and everything.
So I said, you know what, I don't want this
kind of property. I want to achieve something and do
good something with my life. Because I was like smart,
quiet kid, you know, I want to don't want to
live this kind of environment. I want to do good.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
You had older brothers when you moved from Mexico. What
was the community like? And we're gangs a big part
of the community, you know what.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Growing up I was just associating with, like with the
wrong crowd and everything. You know, I was abandoned, neglected,
and they gave me like some kind of like affection
like my parents couldn't give me because me, I like
to party, have fun, drink and have a good time.
And you know, especially when your youth, that's where you
get to meet girls, have good time, work and everything.
You know, that's not a crime to meet people, you know,
(03:45):
So it was.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
More like a social outlet for you. Yes, but it's
something that was used against you because the police then
had you on their radar because of it. Yes, Now
you know you mentioned that you were a smart kid,
and you showed that promise academically too. How did you
(04:09):
get the nickname clever?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
So it happens to be that out of all the
crowd I was hanging around with, I was the only
one that really was going to school, educating myself and
trying to accomplish a dream, my vision I had trying
to do some succeed in life. So that's how the
name came about.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
What were your dreams? What were your ambitions when you
were a young teenager?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So back in the nineties, I remember in the nineties
of Microsoft, I loved computers for high school, and I said,
you know what, after I graduate, I'm going to work
in an office one day and climb the ladder. I
want to dress on a sue ties dress is shoes
and just claim the latter. That was my vision. So
sure enough, I was the first one of my family
(04:52):
to graduate high school. I was trying to set a
good example class of ninety seven. And right after that
I started going to college. You know, I was like,
you know what, I'm on the major in business management.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
All right now. At this same time, a lovely young
lady by the name of Sylvia had already entered your life.
Tell me a little bit about first laying eyes on Sylvia.
How did you guys meet and what did you think?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
One time we had like a little kickback and it
was like twenty my friends and a lot of girls.
And I remember I'm always looking around and I see
this pretty woman sitting on the couch. Plus she had
long hair too at that time, like very long, and
I love long hair. So I approached her, I introduced
myself and we started talking and then she's like, hey,
(05:38):
so what are you do in life? And I'm like, oh,
I work in a warehouse fifty to fifty five hours
a week and I also go to college. And she
kind of doubted me. So I was like, you want
to see my college ID.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
That's why I say, never told a book by a discover. Yeah,
I didn't believe him, but then he pulled out his
college ID, so you know, I saw he had something
going for himself, and you know, we just started talking
and exchanged phone numbers and got to know each other
from there.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
What was it about the connection that you guys had
that made this feel so different for you? Sylvia?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
His personality. He's got a great outgoing personality, always happy, smiling,
so during the moments I would be feeling down, he
would just be there to lift me up. So it
was just like that connection that we had.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
What what was it about Sylvia? How was she different
from other girls you'd known and you dated.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I felt so much connection went there because I'm always
kind of like a hermit right there. But with hers,
She'll come and let's go to Santa Monica Beach, and
I loved that. I was like, you know what, I
like that going to the Griffith Park Observatory looking at
the stars, just me and her bonding doing things together.
So I was like, man, I like this relationship.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
You told me me that your dreams for the future
up until that point were computers and climbing the corporate ladder.
Now it sounds like Sylvia became part of that future too.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yes, and she was also going to college too, working,
so we were always like, you know, trying to accomplish
goals with one another, like she was doing something and
she was doing something. But she ended up getting her
AA degree, so she accomplished her dream. Unfortunately with me,
like I was starting college and just with the blink
of an eye, my life just got stolen. I was like, WHOA, unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
So it wasn't nine months later that both of your
worlds entirely changed after meeting at that party.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yes, both of our lives just changed, the whole one
pint eighty and all that completely.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Take me to the night that changed everything for both
of you.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So that day of December sixth and ninety eight, it
was a Sunday, my day off from work in school.
So remember we were talking and I was like, hey,
what do you want to do today? She's like, watch
a good movie. We'll watch you right there and Wado
really send them was in uptown Waditer, So she decided
to pick that movie cycle. So we end up going
and for some reason, the movie was kind of boring.
(08:30):
I'm not even enjoying it. She's like, well, you know what,
let's leave. So we went out. We're leaving and she
spoke to the manager. His name was John Murray, and
she's like, hey, I would like to get a refund
on this movie. Mister Murray goes, well, I cannot give
you a refund. What we could do is I can
give you two free passes. You could come watch any
(08:50):
movies whenever you guys want. That's bargain. That's cool, all right.
So he gave us two step tickets and we took off.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
And then Sylvia, why don't you pick it up from there?
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, so after the movies, we just we drove down
with your boulevard and went to his sister, Sandra's house
and peta Riverta. She had a little gathering there and
that's where we remained the rest of the night.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
So you guys are hanging out there, and then at
some point, Miguel, your brother Pedro leaves to go get beer.
I think did he ever come back while you guys
were there?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Not that I recall, you know, because we're there probably
like close to midnight, you know, And we end up
leaving like wrong midnight or so, she dropped me off
at my house and waitier and I told her, hey,
when you get home, Paige me so I could know
you got home safe. So she ended up paging me,
and we spoke out into like one thirty word of
(09:48):
both like you hang up, no, you hang up, you know,
one of them kind of things at that time. So
we're like, you know what, let's just hang up. At
the same time, we end up hanging I go, really,
I go. We got both hang up because we both
have a busy schedule for tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
So it was just an ordinary night for you two.
But that same evening, an eighty one year old woman
named Mary Bramlett was shot from another car while she
was stopped at a red light and later died. Six
people who were driving in a car nearby and had
seen the shooter minutes before, were later called as witnesses
(10:21):
by the police, and one of them, Angelica Martinez, thought
that she had heard someone shout your nickname, Clever, and
that she maybe recognized you based on a photo array
she was shown by police, but she wasn't positive. And
then what happened next Miguel So.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
On December ninth. Three days later, I believe like around
six or seven in the morning, you know, I was
Bredy getting ready to go to school and go get
my day started.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
I remember that day clearly. There was probably about twenty
cop cars surrounding his house. Looking out the window and
I'm like, oh my god, why are these cop cars here?
I mean, we had no clue. I had no clue
what was going on.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
So they raid my house and I'm like, what's going on?
Like swarmed in and they handcuffed me, and you're being
on the rest we got to question. You're like, okay, I.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Was even treated as a criminal. They put me in
the cop car. I was only nineteen. You know, I
can be intimidating. I've never been inside of a cop
car before. Once they had searched the whole house, I
remember one of the officers had told me what they
were trying to charge Migul for, and I told him, like,
that's impossible. He was with me the whole time. He
(11:32):
couldn't have done this, you know. And from that Sunday
it was an ordinary day that me and him had
spent together. And three days later, like your whole life
just changes.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
And so you guys get to the station and then
what happens, you.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Know, Like they took me and tied to Picco diveda
shares and they questioned me. They read me my rights
and everything, and they're like, what did you do? December sixth,
nineteen ninety. They're like, oh, well, you want to turning
go no, I'll cooperate. I'll tell you exactly what I'm
what I did, and what same story that I was
with her and everything, just like that I was with
her and I was, you know, my whole day because
(12:11):
my day off from work. They didn't really say too much,
like hey, we're for investigating this and murdering. I'm like, huh,
you know, like I have no knowledge where you guys
tell me and you guys are excusing me of something
I have no knowledge of. So they helped me for
like seventy two hours, you know. And during those seventy
two hours, the homicide detective mcadary's like, you know, where
(12:31):
me go. I know you had nothing to do with it.
Here's my card. Go do my investigation, go find out
who did it. If not, I'm gonna come after you
whether you did it or not.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
So Detective macldairy said you saw this for me or
I'm charging you with the crime exactly now. Was that
the first time you had ever met Detective mackldery.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yes, that was the only time I ever heard of
that name macldery.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
You know, had you ever had any run ins with
the law before that.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I had a dui before with a CHP officer, but
I never been to in and out of prison. Don't
got no criminal history or nothing like that. So all
I've been really arrested was like for like a misdemeanor.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
And then two days later they have to release you
because there's not sufficient evidence to keep you.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
They raised in my house, they didn't find nothing, no weapons,
no nothing, they have nothing. They released me on a
Friday night. So after I got released, I told Siviy,
you know what, we have to go back to the theaters,
go retreat a surveilliance tape, so we go show the
credibility of what we're saying is the truth. So we
went back on Sunday and we went and we talked
to mister John Murray. I told him the situation, I'm
(13:48):
being falsely accused. I need to first, I told you,
I need the surveillians tape he goes, you still got
your stuff ticket He goes, Yeah, he goes, I got
some good news and some bad news. The bad news
is that the surveillians tape rewinds every two hours and
then records over the same take. But if you want,
I remember you guys, he goes, here's my home phone
number and my office if you guys need me to
(14:09):
have your attorney contact me and everything.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Because you guys both knew that you not only had
an alibi, you were one another's alibis. Were you sure
that this would just blow over, Miguel.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
You know what, like I never I never knew that
this would actually happen, you know, I was, like you
believe in the justice system and everything. Like I was
just still I'm still shot disappointed.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Actually, so, Sylvia, you also had interaction with the same detective.
Can you tell me about being questioned by Detective macaldairy
and how you felt about those interactions?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
As time passed by, mcaelderry and another detective came to
my job in Baldwin Park where I was working at
at the time, and started questioning me. They even threatened
me if I wasn't saying the truth, they were going
to throw me in behind bars. I was looking at
jail time, so, you know, a lot of intimidation trying
(15:12):
to take me to jail because they thought I was
covering up for him.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Did they ever try to get you to turn on
the goun.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
They tried to get me to turn on him. They
would ask me questions as far as he was ever
mean to me, or you know, he's a dangerous person,
you need to stay away from him, and like none
of that is even true.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
And then it's kind of like you were thrown into
the court of public opinion even before you even saw
the inside of a courtroom, because the day you were arrested,
your photo was plastered on the front page of the
local paper.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yes, when I got released afterwards, my whole face was
shown in the newspaper with your daily news on the
media of the news, and I was so humiliated. Pull
yourself from my shoes. Your face is being human aid
telling the world that you come into a crime, that
you killed this individual, and your whole faate muction's right there.
How humiliating could that be? You know, it's like the
(16:12):
worst feeling of person could feel.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
You know, But after your photo had been made public
two of the people who had been in that second
car were again shown your picture in a photo array,
this time on a group of people who were gathered
near a van in the Quiet Village Gangs area. You
were in that group, Miguel, but about fifteen feet away
(16:34):
from the van. The police claimed that they found a
three point fifty seven revolver underneath the van, and they
connected it to the Mary Bramlet shooting and then to
you through an informant who said it was your gun
even though it was not. And then a month later
you were arrested again.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Like I mentioned maclberry, since I was in cooperative man,
I had no knowledge, Soul, I didn't do his dirty job.
He's like, you know what I told Migil, whether he
was gifts or now all going to come after he
kept this word, they found that three fifty seven. I'm
not knowing that's the weaponr what it was. And again
here comes again storming in my house, marsh on fifth,
(17:18):
and they arrest me. I was like again, like like,
what's going on here? And this nightmare is turning it
all over again.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
So, Sylvia, how did you find out that he was
arrested for the second time?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
My sister in law at the time. She called me
and she said, hey, you know, they arrested Miguel second time.
I'm like what I was like, Oh my goodness, Like
this nightmare it's about to begin, you know. And it
was a horrible feeling.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Miguel, you're charged with first degree murder for the shooting
of Bramlett and six counts of assault with a firearm
for all of the passengers that were also in the
other vehicle.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I remember in August of ninety nine, I went to
court and I remember the Diegos honored we're going to
drop the death penalty on Miguel and we're going to
give him life without the possibility of parole. And I
was just shocked, like, oh, these people are trying to
kill me. If they were trying to give me the
death penalty, like are you serious?
Speaker 1 (18:18):
And so you knew going into that trial that you
were up against the system in a horrible way. What
was that like that period for both of you as
he's awaiting trial, because you've been taken away from life
(18:38):
as you know it, and you've been taken away from
each other. Sylvia, how did you try to support Miguel
during that time?
Speaker 3 (18:48):
It was hard because for me about the justice system
took someone that meant so much to me. They took
him away, and that feeling is it was like an
agony feeling, a feeling of agony that of anguish you
just you can't control. So I have to learn how
(19:08):
to accept. Okay, they took him away, and after adapting
accepting what had happened, I learned to cope with it
and be you know, his basically his advocate.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
What point did you make that decision? Did you realize
that you were going to be there for him no
matter what.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Since day one, since the time of the incident that happened.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Miguel, would you have just assumed that after nine months,
this young woman with a bright future and ambitions would
stick to you and stick by you the way she has.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I remember that, as I mentioned about that penalty, I
give her a car and I explained to her what happened.
And she's a Miguel, You're completely innocent. I know for fact,
I was with you that night. We're gonna fight, and
from that moment on, we were determined to, you know,
do whatever it takes to fight and get justice. Be
your voice, be heard, to find no matter.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
What right, and then Miguel. The trial began in February
of two thousand. Two of the witnesses from the second
car were called to testify. Martin Leva identified Miguel, but
Angelica Martinez admitted on the stand that she wasn't sure
it was you. She said, it kind of looked like you.
(20:33):
And that's interesting because, as it would turn out, it
was your brother, Pedro, who was in the car that night,
in a car that was registered to your father.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
So the interesting part about Angelica, right on the first
sixpect they showed to the witnesses, did not select me.
They selected somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
And so in six pack, you mean the photos of
suspects that they show the witnesses a.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Lineup, you have like a six different individuals. On the
first one, I didn't even get picked out. The second time,
Angelica selects my picture right after I came out in
the media, and everything contaminates the mind of a witness.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
And they actually the defense brought your brother Pedro into
the courtroom and on the stand, Angelica couldn't identify you
as the driver. Exactly what was it like sitting in
that courtroom and having that unfold, because it becomes increasingly
(21:37):
obvious that it's not just a case of mistaken identity.
You've been mistaken for your brother.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, just like the whole situation, like being involved, being
in the newspaper, and just being costly excused by these
two people. It's just like so David's so hard, sad,
It's just like wow, like mind blowing. That's how I
was feeling at that moment.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
And as mi Guel's alibi witness, Sylvia, you were called
to testify, but you weren't allowed to watch the trial.
What was that like for you?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
When the trial started meeping his alibi? I thought, Okay,
this is going to be easy. You know everything that
I had told mackelderry. I thought it was just all
going to come forward. But obviously they withheld they withheld,
you know, evidence that could have helped Miguel. So I
thought everything was told, but obviously he turned everything around
(22:33):
to his advantage.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Well, you didn't bank on the fact that, even though
you were his alibi, that a detective would end up
going on the stand, misrepresenting the two interviews you had
with him and lying on the stand, which ultimately discredited
you and weakened your strength as his alibi.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Right, You think that the officer would literally speak the truth,
you know, but under old he falsified information. You know,
she had got interviewed by him at her job, you know,
and Detective macadery did not produce that tape, and that's
how he discredit her credibility, making her say that she
(23:18):
was just covering up for me.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And then the guy who linked you to that revolver
in the first place ended up admitting that he just
signed whatever the detectives gave him because he didn't want
to get in trouble.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yes, he said he stated that he was threatened by
mcadairy and he was so scared that he said that
he heard about mcadery, what the things he could do,
just put put people in prison for something that he knew,
and he was scared and that's why he stated that.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Okay, so this is this is the the clencher for me.
So then the defense also were able to call McElderry
to this stand and he admitted that one he had
not investigated Pedro as an alternate suspect, and that he
(24:12):
had not investigated your alibi. So that's how you're leading
into the jury going into deliberation for three days I
think that having heard the state's case against you and
the defense that your attorney mounted, that you must have felt,
(24:35):
of course, the jury is going to decide in your favor.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I was feeling conflict, feeling like optimistic. You always got
to hope for the best no matter what situation you're in.
And after the third day of deliberation, if they have
reached a verdict, and I'm standing right there again, I
remember we the jury find Miguel Solaurier guilty of first
degree murder, and I remember looking at the DA and
she looked at me and she just winked at me,
(24:59):
like I got you. In my mind's like man, you're
making a mistake. You got the wrong individual, you know.
And that's when my life changed, right.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I can't I can't imagine the way that must have
felt on so many levels, because you are now being
sentenced to life for something you had nothing to do with,
but your brother may have very well been a part
(25:38):
of and he didn't defend you. Miguel, did you just
feel betrayed by the system, by your family, by your brother.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I was just like lost in translation that how could
this actually happened? To me? Like wow, Like you feel
your heart just shattered, crushed.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
I was at home at the time. I remember getting
that phone call I believe was one of his family members.
They had told me they found him guilty, and that's
when I just i just broke down, broke down crying.
I'm like, no, how could this be. Once the verdict
came back as guilty, that's when you know your whole
(26:21):
life just changes.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Do you remember that first time that you saw him
after he was convicted, Sylvia.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
I do. It was at the county jail, not a
good place. It was very emotional, you know, seen him
behind glass, not being able to hug him. You know,
it was an emotional time for me.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
How would you describe to somebody who hasn't experienced but
that feeling of helplessness when someone you love has been
convicted of a crime they didn't come.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Out agony, feelings of agony, fatness. You feel helpless with
the situation someone you know being ripped out of your
life from the justice system that you trust. They failed us.
It was hard for me to accept what had happened
(27:22):
to Miguel and to me.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
As well, like knowing the fact that when you have
a life without sentence, you're never going to see your mom.
You're never gonna see day like you're not gonna see
your dad, and you're never gonna see your brother's, sister's
nieces anybody. I was like, you know what, I do
not want to die in prison. I want to fight
no matter what, because life of doubt, your break is
basically dying in prison no matter what.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
You're listening to Wrongful Conviction with Lauren Bright Pacheco. You
can listen to this and all the Love of for
Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing
to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. You guys
(28:15):
make the decision three years after his conviction to get married.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Well before the three years, he had asked me to
marry him. It was at the county jail and I
said yes, and Niguel, you want to take it from there?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yes, And it was September twenty fifth of two thousand
and four when we got married. So I liked that
song by Earthwind and Fire or September, so it reminds
me of that moment, you know, And it was magical.
It was something something new.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Because I mean it wasn't your traditional marriage, you know,
ceremony wasn't your traditional ceremony. But when you love someone,
you just you go for it. You know that's the
person you want to be with.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Well, I went to visit, and I remember I wrote
my little vowels she as a matter of fact, the
same paper I wrote my vow she carries it with
her in her wallet everywhere she goes.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
If you'll share, what's one special part of them, what
really sticks out to you as so very special?
Speaker 3 (29:19):
The part where he says from the moment I laid
eyes on you, that's the part that sticks out so
this very day.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
And that party when you were sitting on the couch,
she knew he was looking at his future.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Wife, and I didn't even know.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
You guys are still in your early twenties when you
make the decision to get married. What did your friends
and family think, Sylvia? Did they ever ever think that
you were potentially throwing your life away?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
I did have family members that try to stop me
from getting married. However, I didn't let that stop me
from making my decision. I fell in love with Miguel
and ended up getting married to him, despite people trying
to convince me otherwise.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
So that's a beautiful bright spot in this really dark story.
Because the story doesn't end with that happy moment, it
goes on for nearly another two decades. What were the
darkest times for both of you? And that was there
(30:30):
any point where you thought this is too much taking
on the entire system.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
A couple of the darkest times for me personally was
the lockdowns when I couldn't see him from months, because
prison sometimes things happen Riot's breakout. Mind you, I've never
stepped to a prison in my life until I started
visiting Miguel, So being in that environment, seen the surroundings,
(31:01):
and having to deal with lockdowns, not being able to
see him, that that was very hard.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Miguel. That was your day in, day out, twenty four
to seven for days, weeks, months, years. When did it
get too much for you?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
You know? You guess that when your loved ones one
three because visits are from like eight thirty to three o'clock,
So you see your loved one leaving, you wish you
could just hold their hands, just go leave with them,
like take me with you, you know. But then like
two thousand and nine, fifteen, I believe you know, we
(31:39):
wrote the Innocence Project again and they finally say we
can't help you. So we hit another dead end. That time,
depression did hit me pretty bad and I got real sick,
like to the point where I almost died in there.
I used to weigh one hundred and eighty six pounds,
and I got so depressed, hit me so bad that
(32:00):
I wasn't eating, I wasn't being responsive, and I dropped
so much weigh within like three to four weeks, I
was just on my bed. It's just you know, sick,
and I ended up going all the way to one
hundred and nineteen pounds.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
At that point, he was going to die on me
if something wasn't you know, going to happen. So we
had to do an emergency conservatorship. And I remember at
that time questioning myself, Am I making the right decisions
and just praying, praying about it and just having that
faith that hope that everything will come together, making the
(32:40):
decision Okay, he needs a fitting tube, let's go for it.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
And what was that like emotionally when he was giving
up all hope physically and mentally for you, Sylvia.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Trying to support him, trying to lift up his spirits,
you know, tell him, don't worry. We got this, we
can't give up.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
You underwent electric shock therapy.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yes, I went to ect electric convulsive treatment like four
to five times, right, And I mustn'tdmit. That's like the
worst pain a human being could Actually, it's almost like
picture this. You know if you put your two hands
in the socket of the electricity socket and you hold
on to it and you just hear fee electricity. Well,
(33:25):
that's exactly what I was feeling. And I remember they
used to tie me down. I even got burdmarks right
here in the back of my thing and on my legs.
The last one I was going to shock therapy in
the hospital, I was just like as soon as they
turned on the electricity for five minutes, I was yelling
on top of my like, turn this off. It's the worst,
(33:46):
you know, in the agony, you know, just it's like
when you get shocked, you want to let go, but
imagine not able to let go with electricity. And they
were so painful that the only side of that it
did give me was that it wiped out my memory
from like two thousand ten to two thousand and sixteen
(34:07):
and wiped my memory. It wiped out my whole like
a couple of years out of my mind, like I
don't remember being in this prison, you know. But the
only part that I'm grateful that I know who Sylvia is,
who my mom is, who my sisters are, and who
my siblings. But I told you know what, I'm grateful
for that I didn't forget the moment I married you,
(34:29):
and I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
While all of this is going on, Sylvia, you've also
decided that part of how you're gonna fight it is
basically by becoming a private investigator. Right. You end up
knowing that there are some important pieces to this puzzle,
and many of them hinged with Miguel's brother Pedro, who
(34:54):
has been writing you letters since two thousand and seven.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Well, during that time in a federal prison, him writing me,
it was just casual pretty much, you know, just touching base.
But I remember one of them being I wanted to
get an investigator, you know, to investigate mcgl's case. He
had told me I was wasting my time, wasting my
money if I did. He wanted to see me in
(35:19):
person and tell me what really went down that night. Well,
only a person who knows what went down that night
would know. So at that time, I saved. I saved
all the letters, any emails, anything that would help mcgil's case,
I saved. And then I just I went from there
(35:42):
just trying to put the puzzle together, all the pieces together,
doing my own investigation.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
And so you were able to get a statement from
a woman who was involved with Pedro at that time
or saw him with a that night.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Yes, so I hired a private investigator and she took
the declaration of another person who gave more details in
regard to that.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Okay, And basically that connected Pedro to a weapon the
night of the incident. And how did someone named Jose
Perez come into the picture.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
That night of the incident when that happened that night,
I remember meeting a person named Jose. The only thing
I remember about him was he had big ears and
he had a white T shirt. That's all I remember.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
That's interesting because one of the witnesses had mentioned that
the person had big ears, and so Jose was very
likely the guy that Pedro left the gathering with that night.
So you had all these pieces of the puzzle in
your hands, and then you were able to connect with
an atturn Ernie, who's another hero in the story. Ellen Eggers.
(37:04):
She agreed to take your case pro bono and also
brought it to the Northern California Innocence Project. Correct Ellen.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
I remember her telling me, Miguel, you know what, I
got good news to you to tell you I've been retired.
I want to take two cases, and I'm going to
take yours. And I was like, thank you. You know,
she's just like, she's the kind of attorney I always
believe that she was the one immediately. She's the type
of attorney. She's like a pit bull. She's no little
(37:34):
chiwala turn, she's a pip like, go get her, go
get things done. And that's the kind of we needed
an attorney, and that's the good ultimate attorneys you need.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
So once Ellen took his case, you know, it took
so many years, but all the pieces were starting to
come together and like, okay, maybe this is it, this
is the turning point of the life changing.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
And it happened fast. I mean after yeah, you know,
almost twenty five years, so over two decades of justice
moving like a frozen slug on this case and everything
you guys were doing, falling on death fears. It happened
in almost lightning speed. Your conviction was vacated and all
(38:16):
charges against you were dropped. In November of twenty twenty three,
you were declared factually in a cent a month later.
Take me to the moment that he walked out of
prison a free man.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Sylvia, Oh my goodness, where do I begin. This was
tears of joy, of happiness when he walked out. I'm like,
oh my goodness, Like, this is what I've been fighting
for all these years, not just having my husband out,
but having an innocent man finally free after so many
(38:51):
years brought me the biggest joy in my life.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Miguel, I remember the moment they finally said like actually
insud like man, it was just it's like a dream.
You know when you have a good dream. It's a
beautiful and you wake up. You're like, oh, lets see
if I could go back to sleep and dream the
same dream. Well, it's a dream. That's reality finally, Like,
it's real reality of innocence. I'm happy.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
So you know, you mentioned how incredible Ellen was as
the attorney who made all the difference in this case,
but she said, had it not been for his main
alibi witness, Sylvia, who knew he was innocent, stood by
him and married him after his conviction, he might never
(39:36):
have seen this day. What words do you use to
describe the gratitude you have for your wife.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
I value everything she has been for me. She's been
my voice, She's been there every step of the way.
They say this is my favorite quote, and this is
like a true friend walks in when the rest of
the world walks out. Well, you know, that's and a blessing.
She's been my advokay, you know. And we fought together,
and she was always believed in us, and we came
(40:07):
to this point. I just want to say thank you,
saving for always helping me fight for justice, for always
being there no matter what situation I faced, You always
there for me.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Thank you, Miguel. Did you ever think that we would
last this long? Despite this long journey and the ups
and downs? Did you think we would ever last this long?
Twenty five years later.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
As soon as I started after I got convicted, I
had a vision in my mind, like you know what,
the love we have for one another, the connection that
felt for you, what I felt in my heart, it's
going to be possible? Then possible? Is it possible? And
that's how I see my vision that that to this day.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Yeah, because sometimes you think, Okay, is this situation going
to break you or is it going to make you stronger?
And reflecting back at everything is it's only made us
a lot stronger. Having that hope, that faith, that perseverance.
You don't become bitter, You just you become more wise
(41:12):
and more humble with the situation.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Right. We value each other, We don't take each other
for granted, and we just keep pushing no matter what,
and we stay had and half marching forward no matter
what situation we phase.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Wow, you guys very much meant those vows you took
while you were in prison. Yes, thank you for listening
to Wrongful Conviction. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco. Please support your
(41:49):
local innocence organizations and go to the links in the
episode description to see how you can help. I'd like
to thank our executive producers Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, and
Kevin Wardis, as well as our producers Annie Chelsea, Kathleen Fink,
and Jackie Pauley. This series is produced, edited, and hosted
by me Lauren Bright Pacheco. Our senior producer is Kara Kornhaber.
(42:12):
Story editing by Hannah bial research by Shelby Sorels, mixing
and sound design by Nick Massetti, with additional production by
Jeff Clyborne. Our theme music is by Jay Ralph. Be
sure to follow us across all social media platforms at
Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also
follow me on all platforms at Lauren Bright Pacheco. Wrongful
(42:35):
Conviction is a production of Lava for Good podcasts in
association with Signal Company Number one
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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