June 20, 2024 • 35 mins
Shortly before 1 a.m. on September 1, 1994, a car pulled up in front of an apartment building in Chicago, IL and a passenger fired several gunshots at a group of people, killing two and injuring a third. Notorious police detective Reynaldo Guevara was assigned the case and claimed that surviving eyewitnesses identified 19-year-old Roberto Almodovar and 17-year-old William Negron as the perpetrators. Despite no physical evidence tying either man to the crime, both men were sentenced to life in prison without parole for the shooting.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following interview was recorded in person at the twenty
twenty four Innocent Network conference in New Orleans. On September one,
nineteen eighty four, a drive by shooting occurred in front
of an apartment building on West Cortland Street in Chicago, Illinois.
Two people were killed and one was injured. The shooting
(00:22):
was believed to be a part of an ongoing gang
feud between the Maniac Latin Disciples and the Insane Dragons. Soon,
the surviving witnesses identified two alleged Insane Dragons from a
photo array, seventeen year old William Nagron and nineteen year
old Robert Almodovar. Despite a strong alibi defense, both young
(00:46):
men got life without parole. But this is wrongful conviction.
Wrongful conviction has always given voice to innocent people in prison,
and now we're expanding that voice to you. Call us
(01:07):
at eight three three two oh seven four six sixty
six and tell us how these stories make you feel
and what you've done to help the cause, even if
it's something as simple as telling a friend or sharing
on social media, and you might just hear yourself in
a future episode. Call us eight three three two oh
seven four six sixty six. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction.
(01:38):
This story is like a perfect encapsulation of so many
different problems in Chicago law enforcement circles and even on
a broader level of people's attitudes towards certain members.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Of the community.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
And it's a really important episode for that reason. And
another reason why is because one of our guests today
I'm going to introduced now Jennifer Bonjin, a bongie and
law group. I'm excited to have her here today. Jennifer,
thanks for being here, Thank you, and with us today
is the man of the hour we're recording here at
the Innocent Network conference with the guy I met which
(02:16):
was very fortuitous and serenipitous last year at the Instance
Network conference in Phoenix. Now we're New Orleans. Robert Albadova
or Robert, thanks for being here, well, thanks for having me,
and thanks for last year. You were the guy who
told me about Jimmy Soto and I was very right place,
right time, happy to be able to be of some
assistance to the team that was working to free him.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
And he's like a legend in prison because he's ready
to give the law helped like guys get home.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
You and a number of the other Xogneries told me
last year, and I was like, well, that's crazy that
he's got everybody else home and he's still there. So
fortunately he's not there anymore, and he's never going back,
and he's actually going to law school. This fall to
Lostwestern is going to be It's one of the greatest
stories I've heard in all my years of doing We
don't want to give away too much of the end
of the story, but we're obviously here, which is great.
But how you got here it's horrifying. You ran into
(03:04):
one of the worst, most corrupt, most dangerous cops in
the country, Chicago Police Detective Ronaldo Guivara, who has been
responsible for countless wrongful convictions and incredible huge amounts of
payouts to people who he wronged that the taxpayers of
Chicago I've had and Illinois have had to foot those bills.
But before this happened, what was your life like growing up?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
You know, my mom raised me and my brothers and sisters.
My dad he didn't live with us. He was basically
a drug user. My mom she didn't like my father
period on my father's side. That's why she can move
far away so my brother, My big brother, Charlie, took
me from my mom's house always to my grandfather's house
and once she showed me that I'd be going there
(03:47):
all the time. My father, one of his sisters is
my aunt Gladdess, and she basically kind of took me
in whenever it summification came.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I sticked with her. She like a mom figure. She
gave me that love, that attention that I ain't get
from my own mom. My mom.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
She tried to do her best, but my mom also
was abusive. She useduld me and my brother, my sisters
a lot. The station courts ball bucos. You know, my
mom was rough and then also lived in our neighborhood
is also rough too. We live in the home Park area.
Gang infected. You got ma Langton typos, you got Spanish
coverst instant dragons, drug didders. It's just a low income neighborhood,
(04:24):
ampy loss everywhere. And at the time my mom was
living in Lan King's neighborhood, and then when my father
lived at my grandfather's house. You know, folks areast dragons.
You know, also a quiet kid, laid back. You know,
I never got to no trouble and then as I
got older in my teens, that's when you know, the
gangs came into my life because you all still got
(04:46):
to remember us, you guys surviving in the same neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
As we've heard in other Chicago gang cases, gang affiliation
is determined by where you live, not by how actively
you're involved. Robert became known to the police as being
a film with the Insane Dragons.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
And here's an interesting piece of this. Robert had no
criminal background. He had a couple little my bass yeah,
but arrests, no conviction. His rap sheet looks better than mine. Okay,
he was a really good kid. There was a gang
officer named Mark O'shewsky who basically terrorized Robert on the streets.
(05:23):
Robert's girlfriend lived in an area where this police officer
sort of lived, kind of adjacent to Humble Park.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, yuppie, says, yuppy area of the brick Yard area.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
She was staying over there and my cousin also live
over there too.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
And I was staying there for the summertime, and that's
how I met my girlfriend. And during that time I
was over there, Osky always harassed me because I stand out,
you know, I had to back your clothes, push back hat, shaggy.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
He's a pretty boy.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
You know, he said, Okay, I was.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
So so that time he's seen me, he pulled me
over and one time he asked me, you know where
you're from.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I said, I'm from home and Park.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
He was like, man, take your spic ass back to
the home park because he's like, fuck up this area.
I'm like, I looked at him, like really, And ever
since then he's just keep my hangrassing me.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So, you know, one of the things that stuck out
when I was researching your case, I'm reading about how
you were categorized as a member of the Insane Dragons gang,
and then I'm looking at the alibi. Roberto worked in an
eleven hour shift at Farley's Chocolate Company on August thirty first,
nineteen nighty four, and left work at five pm, then
took a bus to Wilbur Wright College, where he attended
a class until ten pm, and then took a bus home,
(06:28):
where he remained the rest of the night. That would
make you the world's most industrious and studious and responsible
gang member in the history of the gang culture. Right,
But there's a very logical explanation for why that is.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
My girlfriend got pregnant.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I like, I want to be there for my daughter,
and I know by being that lifestyle I won't be
able to. So I left it alone. We moved in
with my guys. Job that went to Wright Cottage right
cottage base. He provided once you get GD you could
pick up a trade and that's my goal.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Say with that money, give my own place and be
there for my daughter.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
It was really on the right path.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
And the funny thing about that, before I ever got
locked up with is case. I was walking with my girlfriend.
Osski drove out to me and said, man, you know,
education guys haven't cast you yet, but why I do
get you?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
You going down for a long time. And this when
Loui shit happened, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
And then shortly before one am on September one, nineteen
ninety four, a car pulled up in front of a
department building in the thirty nine hundred block of West
Cortland in Chicago. A passenger fired several gunshots at a
group of people. Amy Mrkez and Jorge Rodriguez, who were
both eighteen years old, were killed. Twenty year old Jacqueline
Grande was shot in the back but she survived. And
(07:40):
another teenager named Kenneally Saiez dove behind a parked car
when the shots erupted and somehow miraculously escaped injury. And
then the Chicago Police detective Ronaldo Guivara, who our listeners
will recognize, gets involved and this night eronfolded.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
You know, when I started handling these cases involved Reygavara,
I first came with this idea that when you were
framed by a police officer, there must be some reason,
like prior history, there's some retaliation, there's something right. And
what I came to learn and Robert's case is a
perfect example of it, is no sometimes he just framed
people because he could, and he didn't care who it was.
(08:18):
Robert had no prior involvement with Reygaevera, And I think
what happened is this shooting happens September one, Area five,
with Gavara being the big player there. They're not interested
in getting the right person finding justice for the family
of these victims. They are interested in closing a case
as quickly as possible, and it doesn't matter who because
(08:39):
all of the young Latino men in Humboldt Park are
fungible interchangeable, doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
It's a body for a body, right exactly.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
It did not matter. There was nothing about you know,
letting the facts lead you to. You know, what detectors
are supposed to do, and the way they would do
it is they would work backwards. They would decide based
on where the shooting took place and which gangs were
at odds with each other, and then say it must
be someone from this gang, and then we will narrow
the pool from there. So this shooting, they came up
(09:08):
with the idea that it was an insane dragon. There's
actually never been any real good evidence that the shooting
was carried out by an insane dragon, but that's what
they started with. So, because Robert's prior association was with
the insane dragons, and this Olshefsky guy, you know, had
it out for Robert, Olshevski was like, a I got
a guy for you, and Cavarro was like cool. And
(09:28):
here's an interesting piece of this. They didn't have any
photos of him because he really had not been in
much trouble. So Olshefsky He's like, I know where the
kid's cousin hangs out. So they literally did a pretextual
arrest of him and his cousin so that they get
the polaroid of him to then go manipulate the witnesses.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
So he was rasking my cousin too. And so my
uncle decided on what we're going to sell the house.
We're going to move because k keep my harasses. Then
night she talking about at the time, the house is empty. Basically,
you know, it's just college refrigerator. Oh SESTI came by
the light at the house. My cousin's like, man, I
went with taks him like, man, I go out there
to talk to him. Man, you walk in here, he's
(10:07):
gonna see us. He's gonna be down some bullshit basically,
And sure enough that's what happened. And soon as she
walked in, he's seeing us get on the fucking floor.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I was like, wait a minute, you know, where's your
warring at. You can't just do this.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
He's like, shut the fuck up, him in the back
of your head with the pistol, let us down. He
wait to the backup, came searched the house, you know,
and somehow they found dulfa bag with its shotgun. Allegedly,
they had us on the ground. They snatched my cousin up.
They took her to the back room and you can
hear him just hit him, beating up my cousin. Boom
(10:39):
boom boom, and he come out the room, he crying.
He said, do you know anything about this murder that happened?
I said, I don't know nothing about no damn murder.
After that, it took us to Grand Sancho. It was
like four of us to put us in the room.
And mind you're like, I got arrested by Shiskey so
many times I be by myself.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
He locked me up for my backs, Like what the fuck?
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Just harassment, Just harassment, then, I mean so many He
never took my porteror picture ever. So this time around
he went to the drawer and put out that camera.
Po camera, take our pictures and then they let you go.
Right then, like a week later, I get arrested for
this murder.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, September eleventh, so it was ten days after the crime.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Well yeah, they had to go, you know, manipulate the witnesses.
And as you pointed out, the Robert had an airtight
alibi for the time of the crime. Absolutely, he had
worked at Farley's Candies, where his aunts worked, he had
to clack in and out. Then he went to his
classes and even his teacher signed an affid David long
Ago saying, yeah, he was in class that night. And
(11:40):
then you know, he took the bus home. His girlfriend
wasn't home with the baby, and he was kind of
upset that it was so late and she wasn't home
with the baby. And she got home and they have
screaming match, yelling for like hours, and his aunts actually
called his cousin and said, Junior, they call him Junior
in the family and Sassy are fighting. Can you come
(12:02):
try to you know, come, and they came. There were
so many alibi witnesses and this is all at the
exact same time that this murder was going down.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Of course that didn't matter. I mean, you could have
been playing center for the bulls in front of twenty
thousand people. They still would have convicted you, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
So Gavera basically took a polaroid of Robert and got
Kenney Saez, who was in a gang. Obviously his best
friend and his girlfriend was killed. Emotions running high. You
want vengeance, and a cop says to you, this is
the guy who did it all. You got to do
is go in and identify him. He's like, I'll go
along with that, sure, even though now he says I
(12:39):
never saw who did it.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
No, he's busy diving car, looked trying to stay alive. Yeah, yes,
that's pretty hard to see. And of course then there's
the added pressure if you want to get somebody because
you were there. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Kennelly, he says, gave some very powerful testimony at his
evidentiary hearing. He felt so guilty. He was in a gang,
he was out there, his girlfriend, she came to see him.
You know, he's like, I can't possibly not do this
when my girlfriend shot and killed. You know, the family
is upset with me, as it is.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
And this is also a period in time when the
Chicago PD was torturing not only suspects but also witnesses.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Absolutely, Gavarro, there's a history of that people who he
wanted as witnesses, who were uncooperative. They then got targeted.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
So you were arrested September eleventh, ten days after this
horrible crime.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
And then that guy locked up. They basically asked me
about the murder.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I teld him I didn't do nothing, and then they
basically telling listen, I guess your buddy in the room
saying that you did it. I'm like, I don't care
who you got. You can have Jesus, I didn't do
this shit. You got the wrong person. So they put
us in the lineup, and that's why I met see Willie,
my cult defendant.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
That's Willy.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
What the fuck I don't know? I said, man, you know,
did you do this? Or I ain't doing none of this.
So they put us in the lineup. Of course, the
witnesses point us out, and then they charged us for
the murder. And now I'm handcuffed to the wall in
the room by myself, just got the shitty look, tears
in my eye. I think, I'm not I can't believe
this is happening to me. And I never met this
(14:10):
guy in my life, Guerrero, so I don't know why
he stashed me up. And then the door opened up,
olshshky stick his head in, liot at me and say gotcha,
and he closed the door out of this motherfucker. And
that's why I put it together.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
It's fucking sinister, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
It's sinister. And when we deposed him, I asked him
about that he didn't really deny it. He said, I
don't know if I said that. I may have said
I told you. I'm like, well, it's pretty similar.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
So Shesky was how Grea got a wow?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Basically, yeah, I mean police officers would go to Gavera
to do the dirty work. It wasn't just him doing it.
They were all dirty, but they would get Goavera to
do the heavy lifting.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
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Speaker 3 (15:20):
The process of going to kind of jail, they're lying
up against the wall. You gotta get asshole naked right
next to somebody else right next to you. Officers coming
down make you bend over with spasce cheeks. You know,
it's just embarrassing, you know. And then that's just that.
You guys see the doctor, they call him the dick doctor.
So you go in there, you take a que tip
(15:41):
or something and pinion pee hope as shit was just like,
what the fuck?
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Nineteen years old too, so young, never had this experience.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Never in my life. I wait, what one p thirty
five parties soaking wet. You know, skinny kid, you know
I got up front. I was you know, I was scared.
You walk in there and you're a pack of people
just looking at you. WHI should be about the screaming
to like what the David gangs, you know, they run
everything basically in there. You don't find the rules, you'll
be your ass will stabbed, may be killed. It was
(16:12):
just a whole nother world.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Man. Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
So this is September of nineteen ninety four. I'm assuming
there was either no bail or an unreachable amount of bail.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Right, and there's no bail. They give us no bail,
no bail at all.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Okay, So now now you're in there for fourteen months
awaiting trial.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Right, First of all, stay attorney was sticking at.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Death pending on a nineteen year old with no criminal history.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
The death penalty, which is reserved for the worst of the.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Worst, the worst of the worst. It's a sure for anyone,
because we.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Shouldn't have a death penalty.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
But that's agreed, agreed, it should be for no one.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I was scared. I was scared it wanted to kill him,
murdered me.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, Jennifer, why don't you take.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Us through this?
Speaker 4 (16:52):
It was an incredibly weak case and hinged entirely on
the testimony of two witnesses who were manipulated to some
degree into making identifications. We had Jackie Grande who actually
admitted to Robert's prior lawyer that preceded his trial attorney,
(17:13):
that she had essentially been shown who to pick out.
And then Kennily Sayez, prior to trial, admitted that Gavara
had shown him a photograph and said this is who
you need to choose in the lineup. He admitted it
prior to trial, and then guess what happened. Shockingly, he
was arrested himself and they were like, you're going to
(17:37):
have to go back to your original story or you know,
we can really fuck your life up. And so by
the time he hit the stand, he was back with
the lie. So we now have two witnesses who, even
if they were not manipulated, wouldn't have giving reliable testimony because,
as we pointed out earlier, the circumstances under which this
shooting happened, the shooter is shooting from the back of
(17:59):
a car, are in a dark street, seconds people trying
to avoid getting hit by bully.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
I mean, under the best of circumstances, you wouldn't be
able to rely on those identifications. And now you have
police officers saying this is who you need to pick out,
and Robert's alibi they put the alibi defense on. But
the end of the day in the nineties, the police
win and he went to prison, sentenced to life.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
November thirtieth, nineteen ninety five, you and Willie Nigron convicted
the first degree murders for the deaths of Rodriguez and
Murcus and attempted murder in aggravated battery of Siaz and Grande,
and each sentence to life without parole. We know the
cops knew that you were innocent. Do you think the
prosecutors knew?
Speaker 4 (18:44):
I don't know how they couldn't have.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
You know, I was blessed to have a family that
was there for me, especially my aunt Gladdness.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
She did everything.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yeah, she did everything for me everything. I got sentiment
the ark eight hours away from the city at the time.
My daughter was like think three years old. My aunt
God bless herself. She paid for my lawyer fee, She
set my phone calls, she sent me money, my own
(19:32):
mob that shit. But my aunt did everything for me
and the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
She ken't be going.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Yeah, she got them through.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
My other aunts to be married to the Irish there
there too. But the one that took the blovet what's
my aunt gladness and that's just her husband.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
He's like, you know, do what you need to do.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Tell people, Yeah, they mortgaged their house to buy.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
These are not rich people, no and sacrifice. She live
in the basement of her father's house on finished basement
to help pay the loan that she took out to
pay for her lawyers. So they had to live in
the fucking home, finished.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Basement, and then would also go to protests, you know,
they were out there advocating as well, like actually trying
to bring attention to.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
The case, to the case.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Then one day I'm in the yard and I met
this guy, Angel Rodriguez, right, yeah, Azel Rodriguez, basically from
the same neighborhood that he told him by his case.
He said, I got convera too, and he told him
by his sister is trying to form it a committee
of run COVID, the people with family members. So he
gave me his sister phone number against him, my aunt,
(20:42):
and they formed this committee.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
The man justice from there he just blew up.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Yeah, it's an incredible story of sort of the community,
largely women, the ants, the sisters, you know, mothers, coming
together having loved ones who are incarcerated, who they leave
our innocent by sharing those stories amongst themselves. They're like
Gavara's on your case. They did spreadsheets, they made the
(21:07):
connection that Gavarro was framing their loved ones, and they
were out there protesting, rallying, and even trying to bring
it to the Chicago Police Department. They even went to
the FBI in the nineties and was really fucked up.
Is the FBI knew it. They knew it because Gavara
was doing business with Joe Mazinowski, who's a notoriously corrupt
(21:28):
police officer, and they look the other way.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
It's pretty depressing, you know, we've got such a long
history of doing these shows. I don't know, but I
think if anyone actually did an analysis, I think you'd
find more women who are heroes in these stories.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Than anyone wouldn't have any reason to expect.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
It's amazing because the courage that it took they were
putting their liberty at risk as well, because these cops
would stop at nothing. So we're going to dedicate this
episode to them. But how did this get resolved?
Speaker 4 (21:57):
I'll give you the quick version. Evidence was being red
field of this pattern and practice of misconduct of Reygavara.
Northwestern had done some amazing work. Jane Railey started developing evidence.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Another super woman, another super.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Really and put all this evidence together that you know,
the guys started having access to right. They didn't necessarily
have access for a lawyer or money for a lawyer,
but they were able to put together pro say post
conviction petitions, meaning they wrote them themselves.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
As we mentioned earlier, Robert joined forces with an incredible
jail house lawyer named Jimmy Sodo.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yeah, it was a seminari about two or three years.
He's like a legend of the law. I picked his mind,
he helped me out and the basically he got me home.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Jimmy Soto did your pro say petition right, basically saying
there's this pattern in practice misconduct. I was framed by
this guy and he manipulated the eyewitness testimony goes into
a petition. Of course, you know the judge immediately dismissed it.
It went up on appeal. The appellate court said no,
it should go back four additional proceedings under the Post
(23:01):
Conviction Hearing Act. And then I think Robert got my
name from Jimmy Soda exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
And that sent her letter as a copy of my opinion.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
The appellate court opinion. That sent it back for further proceedings.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
And that's when she gave me a call and.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
I came and visited him.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And that first phone call was awesome. Though, what year
is that? Thirteen?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
You know, you get these cous from lawyers, you'd be
all professional. Her started talking to one of the guys
from the street. She's cursedly laughing right like. She sounded
like a truck driver, you know. I'm like, wow, cool.
So my only question to her was, you know, when
shit they'll go your way? Are you going to talk
to your wrong She's like, fuck no, I'm gonna fight
this case all the way, so you come home. I said,
all right, cool, Bet, I want you to represent me
in the rest.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
It's history, this history. So we were in front of
a judge. Judge Lynn was not his original trial judge,
but had presided over his post conviction proceedings and had
summarily shut him down. I was not a fan. He
was not a fan of me.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Great place to start there.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Yeah, and I told Robert from the stuff, I don't
think we're going to fucking win in front of this guy.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I agree with her too.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
Yeah, he's already ruled against you. For him to admit
he had gotten it wrong, he's such an egotistical maniac.
He's not going to do it. So we have to
prepare to win before the appellate court. So we started
an evidentiary hearing that lasted two years, not straight every day,
but one day of testimony the next day. I mean
it went on for quite some time. And this was
in the Anita Alvarez days pre Kim Fox, so the
(24:26):
state they weren't hearing anything about innocence. And I don't
know how many times he threatened to hold me in contempt,
but it was a number. I got to the point
I'm like, bring it, you keep threatening it, do it.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
That is my family was terrified. Don't do this. I
don't want to get locked up. No, she doing what
she needs to do.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Oh no, He would be like ms. Boungie, you are
so unprofessional sometimes, and I said, and you are sexist.
I would put everything on the record, and he just
did not know what to do with me. He didn't
really want to lock me up, but he wanted to
threaten it to control me.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
But despite this contentious relationship and what appeared to be
like an allergy to evidence of actual innocence, outside of
these proceedings, not only had Kim Fox been elected as
Cook County State's Attorney, but also an independent investigation into
Quevara was underway in which they chose four of his
cases as examples, and one of them was Roberts.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
So we have the city of Chicago hiring a private
law firm, Siddley and Austin, a big fancy law firm,
to do this investigation that concludes that Robert's more likely
than not innocent. We even brought it before the judge,
is part of our post conviction evidence. Didn't move the
needle at all. So we continued to fight, and Kim
Fox then came into office. So we're going into closing
(25:46):
arguments for our post conviction proceeedings. And I remember that
weekend just having such a pit in my stomach that
I just knew that this judge was going to fuck us,
and I said, you know what, I'm going to pack
that courtroom. We are going to have a big pro
test that day. We are going to bring attention because
if he's gonna fuck us, I want everybody to see it.
I want the newspapers there to see it. And Monday
(26:08):
we show up, big protest outside. We go to the courtroom.
The courtroom is filled. I argued the hell out of
this case. And at one point the state's attorney turned
around to the audience the gallery and she's like, do
you think I would be up here if I believed
Ray Gavarro was a bad cop? And you could hear
(26:29):
everybody going uh huh.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
There was like this collective silently though it wasn't like disruptive,
but it was just this incredible energy, and the judge
was so angry about it. I was convinced he was
going to still fuck us. He isn't going to make
his ruling that day. We go in the back and
Celeste says to me, that's the state's attorney. She goes,
will he take time served? We can reduce it? Wants
(26:54):
to now cut a deal, and I went back to him.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I'm like, fuck, no.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
No, and then I immediately leaked it to BuzzFeed that
they had made that offer, because you know, it's despicable.
And then the state ultimately reached out. Kim Fox called
me directly. She said, you know, I'm new to the office.
I'm getting up to speed, and you know, we didn't
really realize what was going on. They ultimately did the
(27:22):
right thing to agree to post conviction relief and dismiss
his case. And I got to hand it to them
because the first assistant, Eric Sussman, called the judge up.
He told the judge, we might want to get counsel
on the phone for mister Elmodovar. I just want to
let you know some developments in our office, Judge, and
he's like, no, we don't need we don't need her
to tell me what's going on now. That's completely ex
party in inappropriate. You cannot be having one sided conversations,
(27:45):
absolute judicial misconduct. And Susman says, we want to agree
to relief and vacate the convictions, and the judge goes,
why are you going to do that. I'm going to
rule your way, yeah, ex party, and to their credit,
they said thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Y's talk about a rig system, right, that's gross.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
After Eric Susman gave this deposition that the judge demanded
the next party conversation and basically said I'm going to
rule your way. I got that deposition and I walked
into Judge Lynn's courtroom like two years later. I sat
in the front row and he hates to see me
in there. He's like, ms Bongi, and you have something
in here? I said, well, Judge, actually I was hoping
(28:24):
to get a minute of your time in chambers. And
he's like, do I need approver? I said, yeah, bring one.
Approver is like a witness to the conversation. And I
said I'll bring my own. So we went back there
and I said, here's the transcript. I think it's absolutely despicable.
Basically what you did, Jennifer. That's not how I remember
going down exactly. I don't remember it going down that way.
(28:47):
Oh well, A former US attorney and an assistant States
Attorney under Oath said something different, but you should have this.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
You held him in contempt.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
I did. I held him in contempt.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
So finally, when did you actually walk out?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
After the closing argument? Thursday?
Speaker 3 (29:05):
I get a call and I got some good news.
You coming home, like when like tomorrow you coming home
from I was like, get them. I'm like, no, no,
you already coming home tomorrow. And for so real, you know,
you think about this day, you dream about it, and
she actually telling me why I want to hear. So
I'm just ecstatic. I'm happy. I'm a clown nine. As
(29:26):
I'm walking out, I see my friend of mine that
we were locked up together him and are He does
a barber I tell him I'm coming home. I beat
my case, no fuck, and we hugged right there in
the hallway. He's crying. I'm crying. I was like, man, hey,
can't get a haircut. He's like, man, walk in the barbershop,
and while my guy gave him a haircut, he telling
everybody about my case. So everybody walking us and me
(29:47):
touched me trying to get that luck, good luck off
of them.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
And when they fighting, just dropped the case and everything.
It was mad.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
He wasn't happy about it because he wanted to not
my ass, but unfortunately he didn't even get what he wants,
so fuck him and were walking until you get processed.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
And this is the part that kind of felt so real.
To me.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
They took me to the room. Ain't got my clothes.
I took the clothes off. I pay on street clothes
and one of the officers she looked at me and said, man,
you look good.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
I'm gonna walk you by the lady lock up. They're
gonna love you. So she did that. All the ladies
are screaming, hey, Poppy, what's up going on?
Speaker 3 (30:22):
But anyway, and I'm sending down the way to get
my fringing prints and my picture taken. I was sitting down.
I see a bus coming in Gay's on the noon,
coming into the county getting processed in. I don't look
at that. I just thinking about that when I first
came in. That was me twenty three years ago. And
after they took my picture of my fringing prince. So
as I walk up, I see everybody. I see my
(30:44):
baby girl right there, my daughter, Jasmine, and she's just
jumping my arm. Gave me a big hug, and I'm like,
he's dreaming about this type of shit all my life.
When I got lot Us, she was six months old.
I come out, she's a young lady, twenty three years old,
you know, And it was so emotional.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
One of the bit beside her being born is like
one of the best ever in my life. And then
run into that crowd seeing my father, my aunt hugging
my ass saying.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
That we finally did it. You know, we fucking did it.
We're here and seeing Jennifer. It was just it was amazing.
Buzzfree was there.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Yeah, they recorded the whole thing, the whole live stream, did.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I It was just it was a good Friday too.
I will never forget it.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Wow. Well, that's a great place to wrap this up.
But we always have one special feature of the show
called Closing Arguments where I think both of you again,
and then I'm gonna turn my microphone off, kick back
in my chair and listen to anything else you think
we may have left out. Why don't you go first, Jennifer,
(31:43):
and what do you got?
Speaker 4 (31:44):
There's so many stories associated with Robert's case. You know,
I've been representing him a very long time. I've known
his family a long time, and I remember, you know,
the first time I went to visit him at Minard
and they always say, you know, you're doing the time
or the time to do it, you you know, And
I think some people have this fortitude to survive these conditions,
(32:05):
and I frankly don't know that I would ever have it.
And I've seen people who have it and people who don't,
and it's heartbreaking obviously for people that prison is doing them.
But Robert, you know, he came in for the visit,
giant smile on his face. I was like, this guy,
you would think he was coming in from like the
country club or something like. He's so positive and he
(32:27):
has a natural life sentence and there are no guarantees
that I'm going to be able to get him home.
This system has not worked for him. Just this incredible optimism.
It just blew me away. And even when I had
to deliver you know, some bad news or you know,
we things were stacked against us not looking good, never
ever lost his optimism, his again fortitude. I don't know
(32:51):
how else to describe it. And it's like no other
person I really ever met, and then to come out
and just be doing great work. He works as a
clerk for US in Chicago, and that means all types
of things. He runs a lot of errands, but he
also does important work of getting recent axoneries back on
their feet, helps them navigate a system they're not familiar with.
(33:14):
He even watched my daughter's dog in Chicago who bid him?
So you know, he puts up with a lot. But
he's a writer. Die. We are forever bonded as friends
apart from you know, this incredible relationship as attorney client,
but you know, I consider him one of my best friends.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Wow, thank you.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I mean, I love this woman to the you know,
I told I do anything for her, and she's amazing.
She walked the walk at the end of the day,
you know, and she's real, she's one hundred. There's no
fucking around with her. She just told you like it is.
And that's what I love about her, you know. Besides her,
and know Javii Solo, you know, big influence in my life.
Another friend of mine named top Dog. He also kind
of helped me on two of my posts, you know.
(33:53):
And also Melissa Sagora she's a reporter for Buzzfree News
and she wrote the story about my story also all
the covers.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, it's a curt Well. I think like two years
to write that story.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
I think she did a lot of good investigative journalists
amazing work.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
I love her too. She did a great job and
bought the light to Mike Kate.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen
to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one
week early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on
Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team Connor
Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive
producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cliburn. The music
in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated
(34:39):
composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across all
social media platforms at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction.
You can also follow me on Instagram at it's Jason Flamm.
Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts
and association with Signal Company Number one
The following interview was recorded in person at the twenty
twenty four Innocent Network conference in New Orleans. On September one,
nineteen eighty four, a drive by shooting occurred in front
of an apartment building on West Cortland Street in Chicago, Illinois.
Two people were killed and one was injured. The shooting
(00:22):
was believed to be a part of an ongoing gang
feud between the Maniac Latin Disciples and the Insane Dragons. Soon,
the surviving witnesses identified two alleged Insane Dragons from a
photo array, seventeen year old William Nagron and nineteen year
old Robert Almodovar. Despite a strong alibi defense, both young
(00:46):
men got life without parole. But this is wrongful conviction.
Wrongful conviction has always given voice to innocent people in prison,
and now we're expanding that voice to you. Call us
(01:07):
at eight three three two oh seven four six sixty
six and tell us how these stories make you feel
and what you've done to help the cause, even if
it's something as simple as telling a friend or sharing
on social media, and you might just hear yourself in
a future episode. Call us eight three three two oh
seven four six sixty six. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction.
(01:38):
This story is like a perfect encapsulation of so many
different problems in Chicago law enforcement circles and even on
a broader level of people's attitudes towards certain members.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Of the community.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
And it's a really important episode for that reason. And
another reason why is because one of our guests today
I'm going to introduced now Jennifer Bonjin, a bongie and
law group. I'm excited to have her here today. Jennifer,
thanks for being here, Thank you, and with us today
is the man of the hour we're recording here at
the Innocent Network conference with the guy I met which
(02:16):
was very fortuitous and serenipitous last year at the Instance
Network conference in Phoenix. Now we're New Orleans. Robert Albadova
or Robert, thanks for being here, well, thanks for having me,
and thanks for last year. You were the guy who
told me about Jimmy Soto and I was very right place,
right time, happy to be able to be of some
assistance to the team that was working to free him.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
And he's like a legend in prison because he's ready
to give the law helped like guys get home.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
You and a number of the other Xogneries told me
last year, and I was like, well, that's crazy that
he's got everybody else home and he's still there. So
fortunately he's not there anymore, and he's never going back,
and he's actually going to law school. This fall to
Lostwestern is going to be It's one of the greatest
stories I've heard in all my years of doing We
don't want to give away too much of the end
of the story, but we're obviously here, which is great.
But how you got here it's horrifying. You ran into
(03:04):
one of the worst, most corrupt, most dangerous cops in
the country, Chicago Police Detective Ronaldo Guivara, who has been
responsible for countless wrongful convictions and incredible huge amounts of
payouts to people who he wronged that the taxpayers of
Chicago I've had and Illinois have had to foot those bills.
But before this happened, what was your life like growing up?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
You know, my mom raised me and my brothers and sisters.
My dad he didn't live with us. He was basically
a drug user. My mom she didn't like my father
period on my father's side. That's why she can move
far away so my brother, My big brother, Charlie, took
me from my mom's house always to my grandfather's house
and once she showed me that I'd be going there
(03:47):
all the time. My father, one of his sisters is
my aunt Gladdess, and she basically kind of took me
in whenever it summification came.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I sticked with her. She like a mom figure. She
gave me that love, that attention that I ain't get
from my own mom. My mom.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
She tried to do her best, but my mom also
was abusive. She useduld me and my brother, my sisters
a lot. The station courts ball bucos. You know, my
mom was rough and then also lived in our neighborhood
is also rough too. We live in the home Park area.
Gang infected. You got ma Langton typos, you got Spanish
coverst instant dragons, drug didders. It's just a low income neighborhood,
(04:24):
ampy loss everywhere. And at the time my mom was
living in Lan King's neighborhood, and then when my father
lived at my grandfather's house. You know, folks areast dragons.
You know, also a quiet kid, laid back. You know,
I never got to no trouble and then as I
got older in my teens, that's when you know, the
gangs came into my life because you all still got
(04:46):
to remember us, you guys surviving in the same neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
As we've heard in other Chicago gang cases, gang affiliation
is determined by where you live, not by how actively
you're involved. Robert became known to the police as being
a film with the Insane Dragons.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
And here's an interesting piece of this. Robert had no
criminal background. He had a couple little my bass yeah,
but arrests, no conviction. His rap sheet looks better than mine. Okay,
he was a really good kid. There was a gang
officer named Mark O'shewsky who basically terrorized Robert on the streets.
(05:23):
Robert's girlfriend lived in an area where this police officer
sort of lived, kind of adjacent to Humble Park.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, yuppie, says, yuppy area of the brick Yard area.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
She was staying over there and my cousin also live
over there too.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
And I was staying there for the summertime, and that's
how I met my girlfriend. And during that time I
was over there, Osky always harassed me because I stand out,
you know, I had to back your clothes, push back hat, shaggy.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
He's a pretty boy.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
You know, he said, Okay, I was.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
So so that time he's seen me, he pulled me
over and one time he asked me, you know where
you're from.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I said, I'm from home and Park.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
He was like, man, take your spic ass back to
the home park because he's like, fuck up this area.
I'm like, I looked at him, like really, And ever
since then he's just keep my hangrassing me.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So, you know, one of the things that stuck out
when I was researching your case, I'm reading about how
you were categorized as a member of the Insane Dragons gang,
and then I'm looking at the alibi. Roberto worked in an
eleven hour shift at Farley's Chocolate Company on August thirty first,
nineteen nighty four, and left work at five pm, then
took a bus to Wilbur Wright College, where he attended
a class until ten pm, and then took a bus home,
(06:28):
where he remained the rest of the night. That would
make you the world's most industrious and studious and responsible
gang member in the history of the gang culture. Right,
But there's a very logical explanation for why that is.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
My girlfriend got pregnant.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I like, I want to be there for my daughter,
and I know by being that lifestyle I won't be
able to. So I left it alone. We moved in
with my guys. Job that went to Wright Cottage right
cottage base. He provided once you get GD you could
pick up a trade and that's my goal.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Say with that money, give my own place and be
there for my daughter.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
It was really on the right path.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
And the funny thing about that, before I ever got
locked up with is case. I was walking with my girlfriend.
Osski drove out to me and said, man, you know,
education guys haven't cast you yet, but why I do
get you?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
You going down for a long time. And this when
Loui shit happened, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
And then shortly before one am on September one, nineteen
ninety four, a car pulled up in front of a
department building in the thirty nine hundred block of West
Cortland in Chicago. A passenger fired several gunshots at a
group of people. Amy Mrkez and Jorge Rodriguez, who were
both eighteen years old, were killed. Twenty year old Jacqueline
Grande was shot in the back but she survived. And
(07:40):
another teenager named Kenneally Saiez dove behind a parked car
when the shots erupted and somehow miraculously escaped injury. And
then the Chicago Police detective Ronaldo Guivara, who our listeners
will recognize, gets involved and this night eronfolded.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
You know, when I started handling these cases involved Reygavara,
I first came with this idea that when you were
framed by a police officer, there must be some reason,
like prior history, there's some retaliation, there's something right. And
what I came to learn and Robert's case is a
perfect example of it, is no sometimes he just framed
people because he could, and he didn't care who it was.
(08:18):
Robert had no prior involvement with Reygaevera, And I think
what happened is this shooting happens September one, Area five,
with Gavara being the big player there. They're not interested
in getting the right person finding justice for the family
of these victims. They are interested in closing a case
as quickly as possible, and it doesn't matter who because
(08:39):
all of the young Latino men in Humboldt Park are
fungible interchangeable, doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
It's a body for a body, right exactly.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
It did not matter. There was nothing about you know,
letting the facts lead you to. You know, what detectors
are supposed to do, and the way they would do
it is they would work backwards. They would decide based
on where the shooting took place and which gangs were
at odds with each other, and then say it must
be someone from this gang, and then we will narrow
the pool from there. So this shooting, they came up
(09:08):
with the idea that it was an insane dragon. There's
actually never been any real good evidence that the shooting
was carried out by an insane dragon, but that's what
they started with. So, because Robert's prior association was with
the insane dragons, and this Olshefsky guy, you know, had
it out for Robert, Olshevski was like, a I got
a guy for you, and Cavarro was like cool. And
(09:28):
here's an interesting piece of this. They didn't have any
photos of him because he really had not been in
much trouble. So Olshefsky He's like, I know where the
kid's cousin hangs out. So they literally did a pretextual
arrest of him and his cousin so that they get
the polaroid of him to then go manipulate the witnesses.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
So he was rasking my cousin too. And so my
uncle decided on what we're going to sell the house.
We're going to move because k keep my harasses. Then
night she talking about at the time, the house is empty. Basically,
you know, it's just college refrigerator. Oh SESTI came by
the light at the house. My cousin's like, man, I
went with taks him like, man, I go out there
to talk to him. Man, you walk in here, he's
(10:07):
gonna see us. He's gonna be down some bullshit basically,
And sure enough that's what happened. And soon as she
walked in, he's seeing us get on the fucking floor.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I was like, wait a minute, you know, where's your
warring at. You can't just do this.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
He's like, shut the fuck up, him in the back
of your head with the pistol, let us down. He
wait to the backup, came searched the house, you know,
and somehow they found dulfa bag with its shotgun. Allegedly,
they had us on the ground. They snatched my cousin up.
They took her to the back room and you can
hear him just hit him, beating up my cousin. Boom
(10:39):
boom boom, and he come out the room, he crying.
He said, do you know anything about this murder that happened?
I said, I don't know nothing about no damn murder.
After that, it took us to Grand Sancho. It was
like four of us to put us in the room.
And mind you're like, I got arrested by Shiskey so
many times I be by myself.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
He locked me up for my backs, Like what the fuck?
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Just harassment, Just harassment, then, I mean so many He
never took my porteror picture ever. So this time around
he went to the drawer and put out that camera.
Po camera, take our pictures and then they let you go.
Right then, like a week later, I get arrested for
this murder.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, September eleventh, so it was ten days after the crime.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Well yeah, they had to go, you know, manipulate the witnesses.
And as you pointed out, the Robert had an airtight
alibi for the time of the crime. Absolutely, he had
worked at Farley's Candies, where his aunts worked, he had
to clack in and out. Then he went to his
classes and even his teacher signed an affid David long
Ago saying, yeah, he was in class that night. And
(11:40):
then you know, he took the bus home. His girlfriend
wasn't home with the baby, and he was kind of
upset that it was so late and she wasn't home
with the baby. And she got home and they have
screaming match, yelling for like hours, and his aunts actually
called his cousin and said, Junior, they call him Junior
in the family and Sassy are fighting. Can you come
(12:02):
try to you know, come, and they came. There were
so many alibi witnesses and this is all at the
exact same time that this murder was going down.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Of course that didn't matter. I mean, you could have
been playing center for the bulls in front of twenty
thousand people. They still would have convicted you, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
So Gavera basically took a polaroid of Robert and got
Kenney Saez, who was in a gang. Obviously his best
friend and his girlfriend was killed. Emotions running high. You
want vengeance, and a cop says to you, this is
the guy who did it all. You got to do
is go in and identify him. He's like, I'll go
along with that, sure, even though now he says I
(12:39):
never saw who did it.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
No, he's busy diving car, looked trying to stay alive. Yeah, yes,
that's pretty hard to see. And of course then there's
the added pressure if you want to get somebody because
you were there. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Kennelly, he says, gave some very powerful testimony at his
evidentiary hearing. He felt so guilty. He was in a gang,
he was out there, his girlfriend, she came to see him.
You know, he's like, I can't possibly not do this
when my girlfriend shot and killed. You know, the family
is upset with me, as it is.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
And this is also a period in time when the
Chicago PD was torturing not only suspects but also witnesses.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Absolutely, Gavarro, there's a history of that people who he
wanted as witnesses, who were uncooperative. They then got targeted.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
So you were arrested September eleventh, ten days after this
horrible crime.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
And then that guy locked up. They basically asked me
about the murder.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I teld him I didn't do nothing, and then they
basically telling listen, I guess your buddy in the room
saying that you did it. I'm like, I don't care
who you got. You can have Jesus, I didn't do
this shit. You got the wrong person. So they put
us in the lineup, and that's why I met see Willie,
my cult defendant.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
That's Willy.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
What the fuck I don't know? I said, man, you know,
did you do this? Or I ain't doing none of this.
So they put us in the lineup. Of course, the
witnesses point us out, and then they charged us for
the murder. And now I'm handcuffed to the wall in
the room by myself, just got the shitty look, tears
in my eye. I think, I'm not I can't believe
this is happening to me. And I never met this
(14:10):
guy in my life, Guerrero, so I don't know why
he stashed me up. And then the door opened up,
olshshky stick his head in, liot at me and say gotcha,
and he closed the door out of this motherfucker. And
that's why I put it together.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
It's fucking sinister, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
It's sinister. And when we deposed him, I asked him
about that he didn't really deny it. He said, I
don't know if I said that. I may have said
I told you. I'm like, well, it's pretty similar.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
So Shesky was how Grea got a wow?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Basically, yeah, I mean police officers would go to Gavera
to do the dirty work. It wasn't just him doing it.
They were all dirty, but they would get Goavera to
do the heavy lifting.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this
and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early
and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus
on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
The process of going to kind of jail, they're lying
up against the wall. You gotta get asshole naked right
next to somebody else right next to you. Officers coming
down make you bend over with spasce cheeks. You know,
it's just embarrassing, you know. And then that's just that.
You guys see the doctor, they call him the dick doctor.
So you go in there, you take a que tip
(15:41):
or something and pinion pee hope as shit was just like,
what the fuck?
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Nineteen years old too, so young, never had this experience.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Never in my life. I wait, what one p thirty
five parties soaking wet. You know, skinny kid, you know
I got up front. I was you know, I was scared.
You walk in there and you're a pack of people
just looking at you. WHI should be about the screaming
to like what the David gangs, you know, they run
everything basically in there. You don't find the rules, you'll
be your ass will stabbed, may be killed. It was
(16:12):
just a whole nother world.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Man. Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
So this is September of nineteen ninety four. I'm assuming
there was either no bail or an unreachable amount of bail.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Right, and there's no bail. They give us no bail,
no bail at all.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Okay, So now now you're in there for fourteen months
awaiting trial.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Right, First of all, stay attorney was sticking at.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Death pending on a nineteen year old with no criminal history.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
The death penalty, which is reserved for the worst of the.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Worst, the worst of the worst. It's a sure for anyone,
because we.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Shouldn't have a death penalty.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
But that's agreed, agreed, it should be for no one.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I was scared. I was scared it wanted to kill him,
murdered me.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, Jennifer, why don't you take.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Us through this?
Speaker 4 (16:52):
It was an incredibly weak case and hinged entirely on
the testimony of two witnesses who were manipulated to some
degree into making identifications. We had Jackie Grande who actually
admitted to Robert's prior lawyer that preceded his trial attorney,
(17:13):
that she had essentially been shown who to pick out.
And then Kennily Sayez, prior to trial, admitted that Gavara
had shown him a photograph and said this is who
you need to choose in the lineup. He admitted it
prior to trial, and then guess what happened. Shockingly, he
was arrested himself and they were like, you're going to
(17:37):
have to go back to your original story or you know,
we can really fuck your life up. And so by
the time he hit the stand, he was back with
the lie. So we now have two witnesses who, even
if they were not manipulated, wouldn't have giving reliable testimony because,
as we pointed out earlier, the circumstances under which this
shooting happened, the shooter is shooting from the back of
(17:59):
a car, are in a dark street, seconds people trying
to avoid getting hit by bully.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
I mean, under the best of circumstances, you wouldn't be
able to rely on those identifications. And now you have
police officers saying this is who you need to pick out,
and Robert's alibi they put the alibi defense on. But
the end of the day in the nineties, the police
win and he went to prison, sentenced to life.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
November thirtieth, nineteen ninety five, you and Willie Nigron convicted
the first degree murders for the deaths of Rodriguez and
Murcus and attempted murder in aggravated battery of Siaz and Grande,
and each sentence to life without parole. We know the
cops knew that you were innocent. Do you think the
prosecutors knew?
Speaker 4 (18:44):
I don't know how they couldn't have.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
You know, I was blessed to have a family that
was there for me, especially my aunt Gladdness.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
She did everything.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yeah, she did everything for me everything. I got sentiment
the ark eight hours away from the city at the time.
My daughter was like think three years old. My aunt
God bless herself. She paid for my lawyer fee, She
set my phone calls, she sent me money, my own
(19:32):
mob that shit. But my aunt did everything for me
and the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
She ken't be going.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Yeah, she got them through.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
My other aunts to be married to the Irish there
there too. But the one that took the blovet what's
my aunt gladness and that's just her husband.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
He's like, you know, do what you need to do.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Tell people, Yeah, they mortgaged their house to buy.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
These are not rich people, no and sacrifice. She live
in the basement of her father's house on finished basement
to help pay the loan that she took out to
pay for her lawyers. So they had to live in
the fucking home, finished.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Basement, and then would also go to protests, you know,
they were out there advocating as well, like actually trying
to bring attention to.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
The case, to the case.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Then one day I'm in the yard and I met
this guy, Angel Rodriguez, right, yeah, Azel Rodriguez, basically from
the same neighborhood that he told him by his case.
He said, I got convera too, and he told him
by his sister is trying to form it a committee
of run COVID, the people with family members. So he
gave me his sister phone number against him, my aunt,
(20:42):
and they formed this committee.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
The man justice from there he just blew up.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Yeah, it's an incredible story of sort of the community,
largely women, the ants, the sisters, you know, mothers, coming
together having loved ones who are incarcerated, who they leave
our innocent by sharing those stories amongst themselves. They're like
Gavara's on your case. They did spreadsheets, they made the
(21:07):
connection that Gavarro was framing their loved ones, and they
were out there protesting, rallying, and even trying to bring
it to the Chicago Police Department. They even went to
the FBI in the nineties and was really fucked up.
Is the FBI knew it. They knew it because Gavara
was doing business with Joe Mazinowski, who's a notoriously corrupt
(21:28):
police officer, and they look the other way.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
It's pretty depressing, you know, we've got such a long
history of doing these shows. I don't know, but I
think if anyone actually did an analysis, I think you'd
find more women who are heroes in these stories.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Than anyone wouldn't have any reason to expect.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
It's amazing because the courage that it took they were
putting their liberty at risk as well, because these cops
would stop at nothing. So we're going to dedicate this
episode to them. But how did this get resolved?
Speaker 4 (21:57):
I'll give you the quick version. Evidence was being red
field of this pattern and practice of misconduct of Reygavara.
Northwestern had done some amazing work. Jane Railey started developing evidence.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Another super woman, another super.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Really and put all this evidence together that you know,
the guys started having access to right. They didn't necessarily
have access for a lawyer or money for a lawyer,
but they were able to put together pro say post
conviction petitions, meaning they wrote them themselves.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
As we mentioned earlier, Robert joined forces with an incredible
jail house lawyer named Jimmy Sodo.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yeah, it was a seminari about two or three years.
He's like a legend of the law. I picked his mind,
he helped me out and the basically he got me home.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Jimmy Soto did your pro say petition right, basically saying
there's this pattern in practice misconduct. I was framed by
this guy and he manipulated the eyewitness testimony goes into
a petition. Of course, you know the judge immediately dismissed it.
It went up on appeal. The appellate court said no,
it should go back four additional proceedings under the Post
(23:01):
Conviction Hearing Act. And then I think Robert got my
name from Jimmy Soda exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
And that sent her letter as a copy of my opinion.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
The appellate court opinion. That sent it back for further proceedings.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
And that's when she gave me a call and.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
I came and visited him.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And that first phone call was awesome. Though, what year
is that? Thirteen?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
You know, you get these cous from lawyers, you'd be
all professional. Her started talking to one of the guys
from the street. She's cursedly laughing right like. She sounded
like a truck driver, you know. I'm like, wow, cool.
So my only question to her was, you know, when
shit they'll go your way? Are you going to talk
to your wrong She's like, fuck no, I'm gonna fight
this case all the way, so you come home. I said,
all right, cool, Bet, I want you to represent me
in the rest.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
It's history, this history. So we were in front of
a judge. Judge Lynn was not his original trial judge,
but had presided over his post conviction proceedings and had
summarily shut him down. I was not a fan. He
was not a fan of me.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Great place to start there.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Yeah, and I told Robert from the stuff, I don't
think we're going to fucking win in front of this guy.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I agree with her too.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
Yeah, he's already ruled against you. For him to admit
he had gotten it wrong, he's such an egotistical maniac.
He's not going to do it. So we have to
prepare to win before the appellate court. So we started
an evidentiary hearing that lasted two years, not straight every day,
but one day of testimony the next day. I mean
it went on for quite some time. And this was
in the Anita Alvarez days pre Kim Fox, so the
(24:26):
state they weren't hearing anything about innocence. And I don't
know how many times he threatened to hold me in contempt,
but it was a number. I got to the point
I'm like, bring it, you keep threatening it, do it.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
That is my family was terrified. Don't do this. I
don't want to get locked up. No, she doing what
she needs to do.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Oh no, He would be like ms. Boungie, you are
so unprofessional sometimes, and I said, and you are sexist.
I would put everything on the record, and he just
did not know what to do with me. He didn't
really want to lock me up, but he wanted to
threaten it to control me.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
But despite this contentious relationship and what appeared to be
like an allergy to evidence of actual innocence, outside of
these proceedings, not only had Kim Fox been elected as
Cook County State's Attorney, but also an independent investigation into
Quevara was underway in which they chose four of his
cases as examples, and one of them was Roberts.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
So we have the city of Chicago hiring a private
law firm, Siddley and Austin, a big fancy law firm,
to do this investigation that concludes that Robert's more likely
than not innocent. We even brought it before the judge,
is part of our post conviction evidence. Didn't move the
needle at all. So we continued to fight, and Kim
Fox then came into office. So we're going into closing
(25:46):
arguments for our post conviction proceeedings. And I remember that
weekend just having such a pit in my stomach that
I just knew that this judge was going to fuck us,
and I said, you know what, I'm going to pack
that courtroom. We are going to have a big pro
test that day. We are going to bring attention because
if he's gonna fuck us, I want everybody to see it.
I want the newspapers there to see it. And Monday
(26:08):
we show up, big protest outside. We go to the courtroom.
The courtroom is filled. I argued the hell out of
this case. And at one point the state's attorney turned
around to the audience the gallery and she's like, do
you think I would be up here if I believed
Ray Gavarro was a bad cop? And you could hear
(26:29):
everybody going uh huh.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
There was like this collective silently though it wasn't like disruptive,
but it was just this incredible energy, and the judge
was so angry about it. I was convinced he was
going to still fuck us. He isn't going to make
his ruling that day. We go in the back and
Celeste says to me, that's the state's attorney. She goes,
will he take time served? We can reduce it? Wants
(26:54):
to now cut a deal, and I went back to him.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I'm like, fuck, no.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
No, and then I immediately leaked it to BuzzFeed that
they had made that offer, because you know, it's despicable.
And then the state ultimately reached out. Kim Fox called
me directly. She said, you know, I'm new to the office.
I'm getting up to speed, and you know, we didn't
really realize what was going on. They ultimately did the
(27:22):
right thing to agree to post conviction relief and dismiss
his case. And I got to hand it to them
because the first assistant, Eric Sussman, called the judge up.
He told the judge, we might want to get counsel
on the phone for mister Elmodovar. I just want to
let you know some developments in our office, Judge, and
he's like, no, we don't need we don't need her
to tell me what's going on now. That's completely ex
party in inappropriate. You cannot be having one sided conversations,
(27:45):
absolute judicial misconduct. And Susman says, we want to agree
to relief and vacate the convictions, and the judge goes,
why are you going to do that. I'm going to
rule your way, yeah, ex party, and to their credit,
they said thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Y's talk about a rig system, right, that's gross.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
After Eric Susman gave this deposition that the judge demanded
the next party conversation and basically said I'm going to
rule your way. I got that deposition and I walked
into Judge Lynn's courtroom like two years later. I sat
in the front row and he hates to see me
in there. He's like, ms Bongi, and you have something
in here? I said, well, Judge, actually I was hoping
(28:24):
to get a minute of your time in chambers. And
he's like, do I need approver? I said, yeah, bring one.
Approver is like a witness to the conversation. And I
said I'll bring my own. So we went back there
and I said, here's the transcript. I think it's absolutely despicable.
Basically what you did, Jennifer. That's not how I remember
going down exactly. I don't remember it going down that way.
(28:47):
Oh well, A former US attorney and an assistant States
Attorney under Oath said something different, but you should have this.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
You held him in contempt.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
I did. I held him in contempt.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
So finally, when did you actually walk out?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
After the closing argument? Thursday?
Speaker 3 (29:05):
I get a call and I got some good news.
You coming home, like when like tomorrow you coming home
from I was like, get them. I'm like, no, no,
you already coming home tomorrow. And for so real, you know,
you think about this day, you dream about it, and
she actually telling me why I want to hear. So
I'm just ecstatic. I'm happy. I'm a clown nine. As
(29:26):
I'm walking out, I see my friend of mine that
we were locked up together him and are He does
a barber I tell him I'm coming home. I beat
my case, no fuck, and we hugged right there in
the hallway. He's crying. I'm crying. I was like, man, hey,
can't get a haircut. He's like, man, walk in the barbershop,
and while my guy gave him a haircut, he telling
everybody about my case. So everybody walking us and me
(29:47):
touched me trying to get that luck, good luck off
of them.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
And when they fighting, just dropped the case and everything.
It was mad.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
He wasn't happy about it because he wanted to not
my ass, but unfortunately he didn't even get what he wants,
so fuck him and were walking until you get processed.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
And this is the part that kind of felt so real.
To me.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
They took me to the room. Ain't got my clothes.
I took the clothes off. I pay on street clothes
and one of the officers she looked at me and said, man,
you look good.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
I'm gonna walk you by the lady lock up. They're
gonna love you. So she did that. All the ladies
are screaming, hey, Poppy, what's up going on?
Speaker 3 (30:22):
But anyway, and I'm sending down the way to get
my fringing prints and my picture taken. I was sitting down.
I see a bus coming in Gay's on the noon,
coming into the county getting processed in. I don't look
at that. I just thinking about that when I first
came in. That was me twenty three years ago. And
after they took my picture of my fringing prince. So
as I walk up, I see everybody. I see my
(30:44):
baby girl right there, my daughter, Jasmine, and she's just
jumping my arm. Gave me a big hug, and I'm like,
he's dreaming about this type of shit all my life.
When I got lot Us, she was six months old.
I come out, she's a young lady, twenty three years old,
you know, And it was so emotional.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
One of the bit beside her being born is like
one of the best ever in my life. And then
run into that crowd seeing my father, my aunt hugging
my ass saying.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
That we finally did it. You know, we fucking did it.
We're here and seeing Jennifer. It was just it was amazing.
Buzzfree was there.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Yeah, they recorded the whole thing, the whole live stream, did.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I It was just it was a good Friday too.
I will never forget it.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Wow. Well, that's a great place to wrap this up.
But we always have one special feature of the show
called Closing Arguments where I think both of you again,
and then I'm gonna turn my microphone off, kick back
in my chair and listen to anything else you think
we may have left out. Why don't you go first, Jennifer,
(31:43):
and what do you got?
Speaker 4 (31:44):
There's so many stories associated with Robert's case. You know,
I've been representing him a very long time. I've known
his family a long time, and I remember, you know,
the first time I went to visit him at Minard
and they always say, you know, you're doing the time
or the time to do it, you you know, And
I think some people have this fortitude to survive these conditions,
(32:05):
and I frankly don't know that I would ever have it.
And I've seen people who have it and people who don't,
and it's heartbreaking obviously for people that prison is doing them.
But Robert, you know, he came in for the visit,
giant smile on his face. I was like, this guy,
you would think he was coming in from like the
country club or something like. He's so positive and he
(32:27):
has a natural life sentence and there are no guarantees
that I'm going to be able to get him home.
This system has not worked for him. Just this incredible optimism.
It just blew me away. And even when I had
to deliver you know, some bad news or you know,
we things were stacked against us not looking good, never
ever lost his optimism, his again fortitude. I don't know
(32:51):
how else to describe it. And it's like no other
person I really ever met, and then to come out
and just be doing great work. He works as a
clerk for US in Chicago, and that means all types
of things. He runs a lot of errands, but he
also does important work of getting recent axoneries back on
their feet, helps them navigate a system they're not familiar with.
(33:14):
He even watched my daughter's dog in Chicago who bid him?
So you know, he puts up with a lot. But
he's a writer. Die. We are forever bonded as friends
apart from you know, this incredible relationship as attorney client,
but you know, I consider him one of my best friends.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Wow, thank you.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I mean, I love this woman to the you know,
I told I do anything for her, and she's amazing.
She walked the walk at the end of the day,
you know, and she's real, she's one hundred. There's no
fucking around with her. She just told you like it is.
And that's what I love about her, you know. Besides her,
and know Javii Solo, you know, big influence in my life.
Another friend of mine named top Dog. He also kind
of helped me on two of my posts, you know.
(33:53):
And also Melissa Sagora she's a reporter for Buzzfree News
and she wrote the story about my story also all
the covers.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, it's a curt Well. I think like two years
to write that story.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
I think she did a lot of good investigative journalists
amazing work.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
I love her too. She did a great job and
bought the light to Mike Kate.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen
to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one
week early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on
Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team Connor
Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive
producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cliburn. The music
in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated
(34:39):
composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across all
social media platforms at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction.
You can also follow me on Instagram at it's Jason Flamm.
Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts
and association with Signal Company Number one
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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