April 10, 2025 • 39 mins
On July 10, 1994, in Houston, TX, four to six armed men forcibly entered a house that was being used as a base for selling crack cocaine. The intruders kicked down the door and immediately opened fire. Willie Williams and Clifford Tyler were shot while trying to flee but survived. Alton “Bud” Brown managed to escape unharmed but Charles Monroe was shot and succumbed to his injuries and died. Neither Williams nor Tyler were able to identity the shooter and since there was no physical evidence the case was closed.
12 years later, the case was re-opened with Ivery Dorsery as the primary suspect. Even though Ivery had several alibi witnesses who attested to his whereabouts the night of the crime and even though there was still no physical evidence tying anyone to the shooting, Ivery was charged and convicted with felony murder and sentenced to 20 years in prison.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
On July tenth, nineteen ninety four, a group of armed
men invaded and robbed a suburban Houston crack operation. Of
the four occupants of the home, one claimed to have
hit until the assailants left. One was fatally shot, while
the other two were injured but managed to escape. One
(00:23):
of the surviving victims described an assailant, but couldn't make
an identification for twelve years, at which point he finally
picked out the photo of Ivory Dorsey, a guy he'd
known since middle school who definitely didn't fit his description,
but Ivory was sentenced to twenty years. Anyway, this is
(00:44):
wrongful conviction. You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen
to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one
week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for
Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction,
(01:10):
where we've got a case out of Houston, Texas where
our guest languished in prison for over a decade after
the assailant came forward and claimed responsibility, and the record still,
by the way, is uncorrected. But luckily I guess yeah,
I mean, you could say that he's at least out
(01:31):
on parole and so Ivory, thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Thank you for having us too.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And with him is a recent Princeton graduate, Kennedy Mattis,
whose involvement began with the Making Xandery class, an undergraduate
course that was originally started at Georgetown with our good
friends Mark Howard and Marty Tankliffe. It's now spread to Princeton,
while Kennedy is continuing on her own righteous path to
Harvard Law. Yeah you heard that right, So we hope
(02:00):
this is the first of many many visits.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Kennedy, welcome, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Now, Ivery, you grew up in Houston, right, so tell
us about that.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
My mother, she was a single black woman. My sister
like was ten years younger than me. No dad, typical
life going on in the ghetto. She was heavily into
drugs bro She tried to go to work every day
and still get high and have parties.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
On the weekend.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I can remember when I was a kid, my mother
was on hair run. My mother would leave certain days
and be gone two three days and I would still
fix my sister hair up, take her to school that
I go to school. I'd be late every day for
first period, and they started asking questions and stuff like that,
and I just lie to them, tell them, yeah, we move.
I got to catch two buses to school, you know
what I'm saying. Because I didn't want to give my
mother up because my worst fear was being separated.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So they hadn't moved. They lived at the Villa Americana
apartment complex, which was otherwise known as the Bricks, which
was notorious for poverty, violence and the police misconduct that
can plague an area like that. So he'd lie for
his mom to keep them together.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I just wanted to protect her. But I was a kid.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
All I wanted to do is play baseball at that
time and do music. I love hip hop, jazz, R
and B. You know what I'm saying, Blues, zodico. My
grandmother she used to always play pop and blues and
different stuff like that, so she was like my first DJ.
And my grandfather ran a couple of clubs, so you know,
they always had music banging in there and everything. But
(03:25):
I was always around people playing records and I loved
it that growing up.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
That was my go to place.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Like when I was incarcerated, I drew, I wrote music,
but that was my go to place to get away
from the reality. But April the ninth, nineteen ninety three,
my mother wind up down HIV Man bird. When I
was like seventeen, I had to do what I had
to do to survive. I started selling drugs. You know
what I'm saying, take care of me and my sister.
At this time, I'm like homeless. And if I had
(03:52):
a little work, like we call drugs back then I
would be able to proper stair somebody house and do
a little traffic while I could make me some money.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Between the his mother's death in the summer of ninety four,
he had two sons, one with a young woman named
Tamika Houston, and at that time they were staying at
the home of Lafonda Henry, which is where they were
on the night of July tenth, nineteen ninety four, when,
unbeknownst to them, across town, a blue car pulled up
to a suburban home that operated as a drug house.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
So that night at five four to two six here
in Dell Street, there were four men in the house.
There was the decedent, mister Charles Monroe. There were Clifford
Tyler and Willie Williams, who were by the kitchen cutting
each other's hair, and then there was Alton Brown who
went by Bud and he was cleaning in a back room.
Around eleven thirty, one of the neighbors, Cleveland Guite, heard
(04:41):
the car doors slam, which woke come up, so he
hooked outside. That's when four to six men break into
the house. They kicked the door in and they start
shooting immediately. Clifford Tyler and Willie Williams get hit with
bullets while they run out the back door, but they
live and Charles Monroe ends up downing from the gunshots.
(05:02):
Alton Bud Brown hid in the closet while this was happening.
His testimony is that he didn't see anything, but he
heard these men ask Charles Monroe to show them where
the drugs are. He takes them to the back room.
Charles Monroe tussles the gun that's held by one of
the men we later find out is mister Xavier Stevenson.
While they tussle over the gun is when the gun
(05:23):
goes off and that's how Charles Monroe is fatally shot.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
And the major blood spatter was in the back room
of the house. But oddly Charles Monroe's body was found outside,
which raises questions about Alton Bud Brown.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
If you look at the evidence, blood was all over
the house and he was outside, so that showed you
that Charles was trying to get some help. So that
made me think that this guy was struggling and fighting
for his life. And Bud, whatever his name is, I
was wondering why he never Rander aid.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
To Ivory's point, there's still a lot of confusion and
mystery around the exact incidents that place in Alton Bud Brown.
He was interviewed the one time, I believe after the incident,
and he wasn't called to testify at trial.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
He said what he had allegedly just heard and that
he hadn't seen any of the assailants. And according to
Xavier Stevenson's Affidavid, the arm group left with a camquarder,
a police scanner, and a cell phone.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
The next day, a knock came at the door, probably
around ten some because I never forget because Price's right
was on and that's when the female friend that I
was staying with, she answered the door and she was like,
it's black. I went outside and holler led him whatever,
and that's when an Xavier Stevens was trying to sell
me the phone. So I was like, at work, that's
the first thing I asked, when I should have asked
where you got it from. I used the phone just
(06:45):
to call the house to hear the house phone ring.
I didn't know she was going to pick up the
phone and work. I say what you want for and
he was like twenty dollars? So I said where you
get it from? So he was like, man, don't worry
about all that, bro, Do you want it or not?
And when his demeanor change, I was like, nah, I'm good.
At that time, Comiskey had pulled up and he was
asking to use the house phone because at that time
we was hustling and we all had pages. So I
(07:07):
was like, well, shit, he got a phone. He's trying
to saill right now.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Ivory's friend, Comiski Lockett, ended up using the cell phone too,
and was also later allegedly identified by Clifford Tyler, a
guy I renewed from middle school, but first Tyler identified
no one.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
So when he was first interviewed, this was July eleventh,
nineteen ninety four, post surgery, so immediately the day after
his statement was that there were more than one suspect,
but he only saw one. The one suspect he saw
was the first man through the door. He thinks the
first suspect said something similar to give it up prior
to starting shooting, but the suspects were shooting before they
(07:47):
had a chance to react. His initial description was a blackmail,
short and skinny in his thirties.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah, I was nineteen years old, he said. The guy
was short, a dog African male. I was already like six' to,
one like brown, skin the same COLOR i am. Now
they tried to make LIKE i was darker back.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Then it was.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Crazy now it just ain't, me. Man.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
LIKE a couple of days, later the female friend THAT
i was staying, with she told me that a police call,
here AND i say the police for? What you, Know
i'm a drug, Dealer So i'm, like the hell the
cops call her? For and she like, homicides something about
a phone maybe that phone, dead old, boy trying to
sell your dumb.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Ass lafonda's home phone, record as well As ivory's, pager
would prove that he was At lafonda's during the. Crime after,
all that's how he made a, living right he'd get,
paiged call back on the home phone and do. Business but,
nevertheless the police must have been checking the cell phones,
activity which led them to Call lafonda's home.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
PHONE i called the police station trying to see what
the hell they was calling my house. For they was,
like who are? You AND i was, Like Ivory dorser
he called my house or such An it's like there
was a murder of. Vegigation were trying to see who
had the phone in because he tell us. ANYTHING i, say,
Man i'm not trying to get him. Ned did you
just say somebody got? Killed i'm trying to protect my.
People i'm not finna get involved IN. Ned so he was,
like can you come down to the. STATION i, say
(09:06):
come down to the. Station you already got my. Address
you come over here and high limit my whole family
gonna be him my. Lawyer it was, like you don't
need no. Lawyer we ain't trying to do all. That
we just want to talk to you see if you
know a couple of these guys that type of. Thing
so he never, came never seen.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Him and perhaps Since ivory wouldn't risk his and his
family safety to further their, investigation they kept him in
mind for a later date because this meant that he
knew who had the cell phone. Right but he didn't
hear any more about this investigation until over a year,
later in which Time Clifford tyler viewed two.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Lineups august twenty, fifth nineteen ninety, four the lead detective
shows him a. Lineup that detective points to the guy
in the second position and ask if he shot at,
him to which Mister tyler responds that he never really
got a good look at the. Suspects On august, eleventh
nineteen ninety, five this is when Mister tyler's brought to
the police Station Charles monroe's. Mother he was shown another photo.
(10:04):
Lineup one of the photo lineups the lead, detective he,
says point out the guy with the gold. Tooth and
so that's when Mister tyler points To, kamiski Because comiski
is a man from the neighborhood who had a gold
tooth at the. Time he, says he's half, shirts Mister
lockett half shirts not because it happened so, quickly so.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
It appears That, Kamisky lockett And ivory were their preferred.
Suspects considering the statement that was produced about a week,
earlier On august, seventh nineteen ninety, five with a woman
Named Letitia henderson who was in jail facing her own.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Charges so she said she was staying at a woman's.
Apartment the woman Is, Squeaky Squeaky's ivory's. Aunt letitia said
she couldn't provide a, day a, time she couldn't, remember
but she just remembers being there one, time and she
Said ivory was there, frequently and she Heard ivory in
the back room with some other guys saying that he
(10:58):
had hit a. Lick and she saw a lartch amount
of money on the. Bed she saw a black, pistol
and she said that she with another woman that she
was incarcerated, with determined it had to have Been ivory
who Killed monroe Because ivory always carried a mask and
he drove the same blue cars one described by the.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Neighbors they said that she said That's july to, tenth
nineteen ninety. Four she was At squeaky. House Well squeaky was.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Incarcerated she wind up getting locked Up december ninety three
or something like, that writing Hot, chicks and they came
and Vict us out the. House the constables did and
they locked that door. Up nobody was in the. House july,
tenth nineteen ninety.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Four the police then Interviewed squeaky and that's When squeaky
said she had never Seen Letitia henderson in her.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Life, nevertheless they Visited ivory for the first.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Time the investigators was asking, me do you know this?
Guy do you know that? Guy i'm like.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
No when they mentioned to The fertiler name we had
went to middle, school was like and their name. Familiar
so WHEN i asked around the, neighborhood somebody, say, man that's,
toughy AND i was, like, Toughy oh, SHIT i Know.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Toughy he KNOW i ain't coming his.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
House i'm gonna just go high let him and ask
him to go to the police station with. Me now
do you THINK i would actually come in his, house
kill his, friend shoot him and his other, homeboy and
then come to him and ask him.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
To go to the police.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Station now that doesn't sound. Likely so even with Seeing
ivory in the, Flesh tyler wouldn't Corroborate Lutitia henderson's clearly false.
Statement but, yet the state later claimed That tyler was
just too scared to come.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Forward the theory that prosecutors put forth that he was
scared to come, forward scared to be able to, snitch
is questionable because he cooperates with the police seven times
throughout the twelve. Years one of the times was in
two thousand and. One the police report says that he
spoke to the lead, detective but we have no summary
about what was said during that.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Interview and then in two thousand and, Six Harris county
began reopening cold cases and they Paid Clifford tyler another
visit That, april and we're not sure, why but by
this time it seems he was ready to.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Cooperate his statement is that he could recall everything from
nineteen ninety four like it happened, yesterday and that's when
the lead detective made a photo. Spread Mister tyler pointed
to the individual in the three, position which the police
report says Is Aaron, brown and that's when Mister tyler
says he's positive that he was.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
There Aaron brown is the brother of a previous guest
on this, Show alfred D Wayne, brown who left a
really powerful impression on. Me by the, way we'll link
alfred interview in the episode. Description strangely though The browns
And ivory all grew up in The Villa, Americana so
maybe there's a pattern of policing in impoverished black. Neighborhoods
(13:43):
certainly seems that way in this. One but either, way
That Aaron brown idea was ignored and the police went
back To Clifford. Tyler that may where he Id'd ivory And,
camiski both of whom had contact with this drug house
cell phone Through Xavier.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Stevenson IF i did something like, This, hill why WOULD
i even use the phone to call my phone? MAN
i won't even took no damn cell. Phone xaviers had
to be crazy to even do something like. That you
know What i'm saying, now real toll. Man and by that,
Time Exaviers stevenson wind up catching two murder cases behind
a ten cent dispute in the, store so he wind
(14:20):
up going on death.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Row it seems that the police didn't know About, xavier
but rather that this cell phone both led To ivory And,
comiskey but that it also led to phone and pager
records that would Prove ivory's. Innocence so how do they
Used tyler's identification and ignore how they got To ivory
in the first. Place the cell. Phone, well the police
(14:43):
claimed that a man Named Kelton smith said That ivory
had confessed to, him leading them back To Clifford, Tyler
but the last recorded interaction With tyler was that.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Spring now they said they talked To Kelter smith In? October,
right how did he you go? Back this is not
a time. Machine nobody never caught that, though BUT i.
Did how'd you gonna talk to somebody In october and
then say you go back from the new evidence that you,
discovered you go back and go talk to?
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Him and may you can't, obviously but now they had
a path to an indictment without mentioning the cell.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Phone the charging instrument was filed On december, nineteenth two
thousand and. Six it Lists Letitia, Henderson Clifford tyler his,
lineup and Then Kelton, smith who testified and recanted a
statement at. Trial but those three and not the, phone
were sited in the charging instrument Against. Ivory ivery never
(15:38):
had the opportunity to exercise his right to Question Letitia
henderson since she was one of his.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Accusers the case should have been dismissed because that's what
they act. Like they had from the get.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Go it wasn't That Letitia henderson was listed as a
state's witness and didn't show. Up she wasn't even listed
as a state. Witness.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Wow so trial began In december two thousand and seven
without Either letitia or the freaking cell, phone but rather
the other surviving, Victim Willie.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Williams and that's when he revealed to the jury that
he had met with The District attorney at the time
the night. Before so this was the night After varder
In ivory's, case and when he arrived at the DA's,
Office Clifford tyler was there and they had spoken about
the case and bits and.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Pieces Willie williams was sitting in there with THE dja
corroborating their. Statement but the interesting thing about Mister, williams
like he told the, Truth like this man was not
one of the mans that came to my house that,
night but the police he'll be like he tentively ideed,
him just saying stuff like, that and it was all a.
Lie the man, SAID i never seen his man. Before he,
(16:43):
said he's seen a Dark African american male and he's
seen a Bright African american male that was like high.
Yellow you know What i'm, Saying i'm neither one of.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Them So Willie williams was more of a defense, witness
as Was Calton, smith who they claimed had Heard ivory.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Confess basically was telling him like, this what you said
on this Affid? Davis he, said you may HAVE Affi,
davis BUT i have assigned. Anything so he just told the.
Truth like me and him never had a conversation about
me telling him THAT i killed white. Boy he told, me, say,
MAN i don't even talk like, that Like i'm running
around the neighborhood of Saying i'll kill somebody or. Something
he said that they threatened him if he didn't say
(17:21):
what they wanted him to, say he won't gonna go
home this.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Family Kelton smith's testimony was first On december, eleventh so
that night is when the district attorney at the time
saw him and threatened. Him and then it's On december
twelfth that he, SAYS i was. Intimidated they said THAT
i wouldn't see my daughters IF i changed my testimony
When i'm supposed to be released In. May and then
that's when the district attorney was trying to get him
(17:45):
to go into how much bigger he is than, her
and how could she possibly be intimidating to? Him and
that's when he mentioned he, Said i'm not intimidated, physically
but when you're a part of the system and you
threatened to prevent me from seeing my, daughters THAN i am.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Intimidated Kelton smith was the last unintentional defense. Witness but
it seems Like ivory's attorney didn't prepare or even mount
a defense of his.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Own he didn't talk to none of THE da. Witnesses
he never talked to none of my. Witnesses and he'll
tell them someone they can, understand even A. Celton he was,
like did you ever talk to me or?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Anybody?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
No did anybody promise you your statement for your such?
Initiinate he was, like, no never seen, him never talked to.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Anybody ivory's attorney declined to make an opening. Statement there
were no defense witnesses during the guilt and innocence phase
of this. Trial there's just questions of Whether ivory really
had effective assistance of.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Counsel it certainly seems that. Way i've retold him about
the phone records and begged him to Subpoena Xavier.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Stevenson BUT i told my, lawyer, hey, man you need
to subpoena this, guy like along with my alibi, witnesses
BECAUSE i could prove THAT i was somewhere. Else so
my lawyers he always told me the case was, weak
AND i was trying to build a defense for. Myself
but he was always, saying.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Man you're innocent to proven.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Guilty everybody knows that's a, lie especially when you're a black.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Man you not innocent to prove, guilty not In Harrison.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
County so all it took Was Clifford, tyler who they
claimed to overcome a fear of reprisal to Identify ivory
after twelve, years a fear that they tried to support
by talking about When ivory had reached out to him
in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Five he even mentioned this on the stand THAT i
was at the flea market AND i was by. Myself
he was with his, cousin he was with his, brother
he was with his, homeboy AND i was asking you
to go to the police station with. Me that's why
my lawyer was, like, well it seemed like he was
trying to clear his, name and he, said what did you?
Say he, SAID i didn't want to see. HIM i
didn't want to talk to. HIM i just want to
sat in the. Car, now that's a. Lie we didn't
(19:42):
have no beef with each. OTHER i never knew that
he was a person that didn't like. ME i never
knew that he Would god understand and do something like
this to.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Me and it's not like he hadn't cooperated with police
seven times over twelve. Years and something telling happened when
the assistant District, Attorney Rachel, ponk asked him about the identification.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Process she, said did you tell anybody from law enforcement
that it Was Ivory dorsey who done this before they
showed you the picture of?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Him or after they showed him the? Picture and he said,
after IF.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
I had to show you a picture of someone before
you said was, them that's not your coming.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Forward you never.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Knew who it, was especially when he'd Known ivory for many.
Years and it appears that this pattern.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Continued he would say one minute that they, like what
did you see when the door? Open he'll say chrome
gun or something like, that and then she'll switch it
up and, then, oh, NA i saw a pump shotgun
to make LIKE i got the murder weapon and then
he said something about LIKE i was the shortest, guy
AND i was, LIKE i was six. Ones that's against
what the witness, said you, know like he was freestyling
(20:45):
and they was misleading him the whole.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Time but despite the issues with his, testimony it appears
to have Scared ivory's trial attorney into scrambling a last
minute alibi witness with the help Of ivory's friend and,
mentor Mister.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Perkins now he's, REALIZING I i guess that Am i'm
gonna send this man to prison for something he didn't.
Do and he's, like do you think, that Mister, perkinson.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Go get your son.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Mother SO i had talked to my son mother night
before and he went over there and nobody answered the,
door and he was, like, man the light was, ON
i heard THE tv playing the.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Number nobody came to the. Door so it's like.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
WOW a couple years, LATER i didn't find out that
she was pregnant by another guy and she had a
baby that same day THAT i was going to.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Try that's why she wasn't.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
There AND i.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Think the trial attorney realized after there was a guilty verdict.
Rendered and it's during the defense's closing remarks when the
trial attorney, admits and this is, verbatim the attorney, says
how easy it is to convict a young black. Man
it's just. Easy this is. Obscene this is obscene what you.
Did and it's Not ivory. Door she's. Fault it's. MINE
i had ten strikes and OBVIOUSLY i didn't use them
(21:52):
appropriately or properly in this. Case.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Man at that, Moment i'm talking to guard in my
head And i'm, LIKE i didn't even do. This is
it's somebody that you want me to. Meet DO i
supposed to go to the. Penitentiary it's something that you
want me to, do Because i'll. Go but you KNOW
i didn't do. This i'm innocent of. This AND i
heard this Scripture joshua one through. Nine he was, saying
(22:16):
don't be. Afraid i'll go with you. Wherever you know
What i'm, saying be strong and be very. Courageous i'm
gonna be with you wherever you.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Go that's WHAT i.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Heard and WHEN i got in the shower that, night
BUT i cried like twenty years for something THAT i didn't.
DO i didn't understand why all this was happening to.
(22:47):
Me you, know losing my mother at a young, age
trying to take care of my, sister trying to do
things like why did this guy get up there and
lie on? Me DID i hurt this guy in some
kind of way?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Intentionally?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
UNKNOWINGLY i didn't know What i'm, saying and seeing him do,
that LIKE i, THOUGHT i was something THAT i wasn't
WHEN i first got locked up for this, BRO i
ain't gonna.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
LIE i w wasn't strong like. This NOW i wanted
to commit.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
SUICIDE i felt LIKE i had let my kids. DOWN
i had promised my kids THAT i would always be
there for them BECAUSE i didn't have a, daddy you
know What i'm. Saying AND i promised them, like, man
if anything happened to, ME i want y'all always to
take care of each other and be with each. Other they,
separated we all. SEPARATED i wouldn't seeing them and stuff like.
That and that's when time started really getting to. ME
i wouldn't seeing my, people AND i love hard, MAN
(23:31):
i love my, people you know What i'm. Saying reality kicked.
IN i had to get on my, knees could just be,
grateful just. SURVIVE i started drawing, them you, know and
the music and stuff like. That that became my cell.
THERAPY i had to rely on the, real livey. DOORS
i had to go back to being myself WHEN i
was a kid AND i used to draw those, pictures
and that stuff started coming back to. Me, Man that's
what helped me get through this. TIME i started cutting
(23:53):
hair and just vibing with different. People now was showing
me how to go to the law, library how to do,
research how to work on the. Lot and that's When
god started introducing me to people, inside like a guy
Named Danny.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Anderson in addition to guys Like, Danny ivory wrote to
many attorneys and innocence organizations and received support from The
Texas Innocence, project who reached out To Xavier.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Stevenson and before, THAT i had a dream That Exavier
stevenson he had came on the same UNIT i was.
On he's, like what are you doing? Here AND i,
say may you know that cell phone you tried to sell?
Me and he, said don't worry about. IT i got
you AND i woke up in a cold. Switch that's
WHEN i got The Alpha davis from.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Him by this, Time xavier's defense team was able to
get his death sentence thrown out he.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Had an intellectual. Disability he was charged with murdering two
people over ten cents in a convenience. Store so the
courts ruled that it would be violating his right that
prevents against cron unusual punishment if he was put to,
death and so his sentence was commuted to. Life he
is pro eligible in twenty forty.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
And in direct conflict with that, Objective xavier wrote an
affidavit Supporting ivory.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Edis when he found out THAT i was incarcerated for
something that he had, done he does The. AFFIDAVID i
Think september twenty. TWELVE i get the Affid. David Immediately i'm, like,
Wow i'm finna ask for evidentier HERE i KNEW i
was finna go.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Home you know What i'm. Saying it's twenty.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Twelve we talked about twelve years, ago thirteen years, ago
AND i was talking to this guy Named Larry. Brown
because Now i'm on a different unit From, DANNY i
reach out To danny and we found out That danny's
Did i'm, like, Wow so REMEMBER i just got a
whole rit done By Danny anderson twenty seven grounds that
he found in the. Case that's how bad it. Was
(25:35):
And larry was, like how you gonna do. That you're
gonna do? ACT i, say Because i'm actually. Innocent and
it was, Like, okay you can do, that but you
can't file all the.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Grounds his Friend Larry brown advised him to will down
the filing to his eight strongest constitutional claims to pair
with his actual innocence claim and newly discovered.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
EVIDENCE i filed it in twenty. Fifteen when you file something,
good they gonna delay. You when you file something, bad
they gonna deny.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
You. Man they got so many ways to just tell you,
KNOW i wrote the judge this, LEFT i asked.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
THEM i, said up from the bottom of my, Heart,
MAN i put everything on my mother's, GRAVE i, said.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
MAN i told the.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
JUDGE i, say, man, LOOK i don't even care about
no money or none of.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
That you know What i'm. Saying it was this out For.
Davis please just let me go.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Home SO i could save my son from coming to
the penitential of getting killed on the streets Of. HOUSTON
i just want to go home SO i can finish
raising my. Kids but they held that.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Rid deny or. Delay this went on until another friend
Named Steve morgan helped him get the evidentiary hearing that
he deserved A navy.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Seal he the one got me, back do the. Evidence you're.
Here they bench warmed me. Back they reset me like
twenty two. TIMES i wind up staying in the county
twenty two. Months they resetted me every, month and they
USED covid for an excuse like they always do to.
DELAY i finally got my day in. COURT i just
KNEW i was finna go. Home Exavier stevenson got up
(26:57):
there and exonerated, me really told the truth about.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Everything Mister stevenson went through very specific details of the
crime that you could not have known about if you weren't.
There he recalled that there were three cars in the,
driveway that there were nice rims in the, house and
this matches the police. Report he identified that there were
men in the kitchen clipping each other's. Hair he recalled
a pool table right in the front. Room he just
(27:21):
recalled things very.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Accurately they tried to cross him up and make like
he was lying and like he was doing me a.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Favor how you doing me a, favor Mister.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Stevenson he also filed a habeas write at the time
of the evident your, hearing he hadn't heard. Back he's
still eligible for. Parole he comes up For pearl and twenty.
Forty he had, children so if, anything he jeopardized himself
by coming.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Forward it was very. Emotional he broke down. Crying it
made me start crying BECAUSE.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I couldn't believe that it was steal people on Planet
earth that would tell the truth about something that they.
Did AND i mirre that a man would stand up
and take responsibility for his own. DESTINY i wouldn't let
no nobody go down for.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Me.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Man If i've done, SOMETHING i tell y'all done. It
AND i was, wondering, like why is the family not?
Here why the victim family not? Here like they should
have been there to hear. That his mother should have
been there to hear. That you know What i'm, saying
to get some type of, closure real. Talk, well the youngest,
(28:30):
son he feels like since his mother had passed AND
i had been, gone he had told me THAT i
really needs you out. Here when you think you're gonna get,
OUT i thought you was gonna win you a. Pill
AND i was trying to explain to him THAT i
am gonna win my, pill just speaking by. Faith just
bad with, Me, man just hold, On i'm. TRYING i
told him like. THIS i, Say, Man i'm in the
middle of a war AND i don't have no. GUN
(28:50):
i don't have no. Bullets i'm over here making bullets
and make an assault rifles to fight these. People BECAUSE
i don't have the. AMMUNITION i have to get in
these books AND i have to learn this and ask
questions BECAUSE i don't. Notice this is not my. Language
see you could thank you got so much game until
you go on in front of them.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Votes, well they've still been holding. It you know What i'm.
Saying they've just been delaying it, like never heard nothing back.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
From it's really unbelievable when the actual assailment comes forward
and their response is just that they just want to
bury their heads in the. Sand but luckily are good
friends At, Georgiatown Mark howard and the one and Only Marty. Tankliffe,
well they're branching out to other college, campuses And princeton
(29:35):
agreed to offer their making an ex. Recourse in the
spring semester Of kennedy's senior year in.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
High, SCHOOL i interned at The Ohio Innocence project and
was really blown away WHEN i met some of the
exoneries who talked about how they had been screwed by
the legal, system AND i spent all of colleges trying
to learn more about, it which is during the spring
semester of my senior years when this class was. Offered
it was a no. Brainer we were given four cases
to read, through And ivory stuck out immediately because the
(30:05):
case summary described that someone had come forward and, confessed
But ivory was still in, prison which not knowing anything
else about his. Case that's mind. Blowing and so with
one of our, professors we'd have calls and we'd go
over exactly what we were doing for the. Investigation we
all would, workshop so these would happen. Weekly we'd Update
ivory on who we spoke, to what we found through
(30:27):
going through the police, reports the trial, transcripts Which ivory
had not received at that. Point we were the first
people to Send ivory his files because he couldn't access.
Them So ivory was seeing this material for the first,
time and so we were all going through like, seeing
oh my, gosh on page like twenty, six line, seven
look at, this like look at what this person. Said
(30:48):
we had Visited houston. Twice both trips were interviewing. Witnesses
it was also Meeting ivory's family in, person because we
wanted to get to know the people who were imported
In ivory's life and help them connect with. Them it
was really just everything we worked on his, case but
it was more so making sure that he was fully set.
Up he was connected to people he hadn't been connected within, years.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
And like so many of us in this, movement once
you see, it you just can't turn.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Away ken and them they did a little bit more
than what they told, You like they was sending us, books,
money making SURE i had something to. Eat they did
more than what they had. To they could have just
did just for a grade and moved, on but, no
they got. Involved they got in the foxhole with. Me
they became family man real.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Toe In may of twenty twenty three is WHEN i
graduated AND i started working, immediately and So ivory AND
i adjusted our call. Schedules we still worked on his
case and we shifted to, parole and so that was
WHEN i was working with two other, Students ben And,
carry and we all kind of worked on. It ivory
had all of his educational, Certificates we got over eleven
(31:57):
eleven to twelve letters of rec tracked down his childhood
pastor to write a letter of. Recommendation he got a
hold of his disciplinary record which had four non violent,
infractions with the latest infraction being like twenty, twelve and
it was like you were late to class because your
door was barricaded from. Something Just we put together a
(32:19):
pearl packet that ended up being one hundred and nine,
pages And ivory had an attorney from an innocence clinic
out Of Texas southern who stepped in to Represent ivory
during his parole. Hearing so that takes us Through december
of twenty twenty. Three ivery. One did you get the
official letter that you were a proof of? Parole?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Wow seven less.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Light.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
YEAH i just remember refreshing the page that morning seeing
that you were, approved and THEN i Messaged ivory On
securists AND i said call me in all, caps which
is WHEN i was able to tell you that you
were approved for.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Parole, yeah AND i broke.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Down, yeah, yeah we both.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
Did i've never been on parole because this is like
my first time really being IN, tdc So i'm asking
all the, inmates, like, hey what's this? All you got
to go to a rehabilitation. Thing so WHEN i got
to the, program my son was. There this is the
twelve year old that was at the house with me
that day WHEN i got. Arrested my ten and twelve year,
old but this was my oldest, son my, junior AND
i haven't seen him in eighteen. Years so WHEN i
(33:19):
get to the, UNIT i got a chance to hugg. Him,
man we sat there and talked for a, while and we,
vibe you know What i'm, saying just chopping it up
and everything by his, brother by his. Situation HOW i
wanted to see him on the outside so we could
sit down and have. DINNER i want to restore our
relationship with my kids and get everything going back.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Together just seeing my. Son and then it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Because the drugs inside the system with the kids and,
stuff and now you know What i'm, saying that my
child eventually was doing this and it hurted, me AND
i was trying not to get into it with him
because it's at this time when you have to be a.
Father but Then i've been gone for eighteen, years so
AND i try to tell him, something it's like we
would bump heads with each.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Other BUT i was. HURT i had missed.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
HIM i missed on trying to discipline, him AND i
couldn't tell him.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Nothing and he's back in cars of.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Raided he got out like about four months before me
and went back to the. County AND i wind up
getting Out february.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
The, fifth and he went back. In was it the
day that you got out or was it was a
few days, Before.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Yeah violating his parole of.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Curfew AND i never got a chance to chop it
up with, him you know What i'm.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Saying in the free.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
World AND i talked to him on the phone and
stuff like, that but, MAN i just don't get. IT
i love, him, Man and every TIME i call, Him i'm,
like just take care of. YOURSELF i just want to
see you out there and take care of my, grandbaby
which is his. Daughter she played, basketball she run. Track
smart little, girl need her. DAD i can't even go
to a game and see her play BECAUSE i can't
go To Harris. COUNTY i can't go see none of
my family In Harris. County you know What i'm. SAYING i, said,
(34:50):
WELL i just got to be. Grateful at LEAST i
Know i'm.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Gome we wish you nothing but the best on your
continued struggle to clear your. Name and as we're all
aware both that legal battle and even just, surviving nothing
comes for. Free And ivory is, working but he needs
more support than he can. Muster so we're going to
(35:14):
be linking his GoFundMe in the episode, description and we'll
follow his social. Media we're going to put in the
episode description so we can follow his progress and who,
knows maybe even get to hear some great.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
MUSIC i want to release this song That i'm working.
On it's called it Was All just A. Dream i'm
coming from my. Mother he had it to my. FATHER
i want to release that For mama and all the
mothers in the, world grandmother's baby, mothers BECAUSE i lost
my son mother WHILE i was going. Too SO i
just want to dedicate this to the women man who have.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Children and then if social media is at Bring ivory.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Home so please scroll down and Support. Ivory and with,
that we're going to go to closing, arguments where first of,
ALL i want to thank each of you from the
bottom of my heart for being here closing. Arguments i'm
going to turn my microphone off and just kick back
in my chair and listen to anything else each of
you want to. Share, kennedy you started, off and then
when you're, done just hand the microphone off To ivory
(36:05):
and he'll take us off into the.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Sunset thank you so much for having us in giving
us the opportunity to share ivory story with the. World
it's as infuriating as it. Sounds there are as many
questions as you think there. Are we're still finding new
stuff every, day and while we've had the, OPPORTUNITY i
think to talk about the hallmarks of wrongful conviction that
(36:27):
are In ivory's, case the inconsistent eyewitness, testimony the ineffective
assistance of, counsel official misconduct throughout the trial and during
the appellate. Phase there were also a lot of smaller
injustices throughout the way That ivory had to deal, with
one of which being staying connected with. Family it's really
expensive and when you rely on those family and friends
to support you mentally and spiritually as well as to
(36:51):
help you fight for your, innocence it's really. Hard so
that was one just the challenges with. Parole ivory found
out that he was not being released until year after
he was given, parole and it was in the fall
that he was told he couldn't step foot In Harris,
county which is where his entire parole packet laid out
his reentry. Plan so just the challenges of parole as another.
(37:13):
Injustice he's. Faced the. Heat there's no ac Inside texas,
prisons And ivory can speak to how hot it was
throughout the. Summer that's why we were rushing to get
him released when we found out that he was approved In,
january so that he wouldn't have to spend another summer
inside Of texas. Prisons and the last Thing ivory worked
all throughout his, incarceration but he wasn't paid a. Cent
(37:35):
and so these are some of the injustices that he
also had to deal with that weren't part of his
fighting for his innocence per, se but just details to
keep in mind as there are other people fighting for their.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Innocence this injustice in this, world, man it's like a.
Disease it's not going to own my door, now but
tomorrow can be knocking on. Yodo there's no respective. PERSON
i don't care who he. Is it doesn't matter if
you black or. WHITE i got friends inside that's black and.
White That's meskins that's going through the same. Thing AND
i don't want to forget those, guys you know What i'm.
(38:08):
Saying AND i think this happened to me BECAUSE i
judged a. Man i'll never forget. IT i was sitting
on the couch Youre. No six AND i seen this
man on the news and they said he had raped these.
KIDS i don't even know this, man BUT.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I judged this.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Man god showed me that same man coming out in
two thousand and nine where he was exonerated BY, dna
and this TIME.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
I was in.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Jail it made me look at life. Different, Man like
if you don't know, something shut your damn.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Mouth people don't. Understand it ain't gotta be, You it
can be your.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Kids Maybe god allowed me to go through this to
help somebody else out that's gonna go through this because
he told Me i'm bringing you out of your. Valley
but the other people that's gonna have to go through.
This this injustice is. Everywhere people keep ignoring it like
it doesn't, matter but we need to do something different for.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Real it's like. Cancer, man.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Thank you for listening to wrongful. Conviction you can listen
to this and all The lava For good podcasts one
week early and ad free by subscribing To lava For
Good plus On Apple. PODCASTS i want to thank our production,
Team Connor hall And Kathleen, fink as well as my
fellow executive Producers Jeff, Kempler Kevin, wartis And Jeff. Cleiber
the music in this production was supplied by three TIME
(39:20):
oscar nominated Composer Jay. Ralph be sure to follow us
across all social media platforms At lava For good and
At Wrongful. Conviction you can also follow me On instagram
At It's Jason. Flamm Wrongful conviction is a production Of
lava For Good podcasts and association With Signal Company Number.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
One we have worked hard to ensure that all facts
reported in this show are.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Accurate the views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured
in this show are their own and do not necessarily
reflect those Of lava For good
On July tenth, nineteen ninety four, a group of armed
men invaded and robbed a suburban Houston crack operation. Of
the four occupants of the home, one claimed to have
hit until the assailants left. One was fatally shot, while
the other two were injured but managed to escape. One
(00:23):
of the surviving victims described an assailant, but couldn't make
an identification for twelve years, at which point he finally
picked out the photo of Ivory Dorsey, a guy he'd
known since middle school who definitely didn't fit his description,
but Ivory was sentenced to twenty years. Anyway, this is
(00:44):
wrongful conviction. You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen
to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one
week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for
Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction,
(01:10):
where we've got a case out of Houston, Texas where
our guest languished in prison for over a decade after
the assailant came forward and claimed responsibility, and the record still,
by the way, is uncorrected. But luckily I guess yeah,
I mean, you could say that he's at least out
(01:31):
on parole and so Ivory, thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Thank you for having us too.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And with him is a recent Princeton graduate, Kennedy Mattis,
whose involvement began with the Making Xandery class, an undergraduate
course that was originally started at Georgetown with our good
friends Mark Howard and Marty Tankliffe. It's now spread to Princeton,
while Kennedy is continuing on her own righteous path to
Harvard Law. Yeah you heard that right, So we hope
(02:00):
this is the first of many many visits.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Kennedy, welcome, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Now, Ivery, you grew up in Houston, right, so tell
us about that.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
My mother, she was a single black woman. My sister
like was ten years younger than me. No dad, typical
life going on in the ghetto. She was heavily into
drugs bro She tried to go to work every day
and still get high and have parties.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
On the weekend.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I can remember when I was a kid, my mother
was on hair run. My mother would leave certain days
and be gone two three days and I would still
fix my sister hair up, take her to school that
I go to school. I'd be late every day for
first period, and they started asking questions and stuff like that,
and I just lie to them, tell them, yeah, we move.
I got to catch two buses to school, you know
what I'm saying. Because I didn't want to give my
mother up because my worst fear was being separated.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So they hadn't moved. They lived at the Villa Americana
apartment complex, which was otherwise known as the Bricks, which
was notorious for poverty, violence and the police misconduct that
can plague an area like that. So he'd lie for
his mom to keep them together.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I just wanted to protect her. But I was a kid.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
All I wanted to do is play baseball at that
time and do music. I love hip hop, jazz, R
and B. You know what I'm saying, Blues, zodico. My
grandmother she used to always play pop and blues and
different stuff like that, so she was like my first DJ.
And my grandfather ran a couple of clubs, so you know,
they always had music banging in there and everything. But
(03:25):
I was always around people playing records and I loved
it that growing up.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
That was my go to place.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Like when I was incarcerated, I drew, I wrote music,
but that was my go to place to get away
from the reality. But April the ninth, nineteen ninety three,
my mother wind up down HIV Man bird. When I
was like seventeen, I had to do what I had
to do to survive. I started selling drugs. You know
what I'm saying, take care of me and my sister.
At this time, I'm like homeless. And if I had
(03:52):
a little work, like we call drugs back then I
would be able to proper stair somebody house and do
a little traffic while I could make me some money.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Between the his mother's death in the summer of ninety four,
he had two sons, one with a young woman named
Tamika Houston, and at that time they were staying at
the home of Lafonda Henry, which is where they were
on the night of July tenth, nineteen ninety four, when,
unbeknownst to them, across town, a blue car pulled up
to a suburban home that operated as a drug house.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
So that night at five four to two six here
in Dell Street, there were four men in the house.
There was the decedent, mister Charles Monroe. There were Clifford
Tyler and Willie Williams, who were by the kitchen cutting
each other's hair, and then there was Alton Brown who
went by Bud and he was cleaning in a back room.
Around eleven thirty, one of the neighbors, Cleveland Guite, heard
(04:41):
the car doors slam, which woke come up, so he
hooked outside. That's when four to six men break into
the house. They kicked the door in and they start
shooting immediately. Clifford Tyler and Willie Williams get hit with
bullets while they run out the back door, but they
live and Charles Monroe ends up downing from the gunshots.
(05:02):
Alton Bud Brown hid in the closet while this was happening.
His testimony is that he didn't see anything, but he
heard these men ask Charles Monroe to show them where
the drugs are. He takes them to the back room.
Charles Monroe tussles the gun that's held by one of
the men we later find out is mister Xavier Stevenson.
While they tussle over the gun is when the gun
(05:23):
goes off and that's how Charles Monroe is fatally shot.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
And the major blood spatter was in the back room
of the house. But oddly Charles Monroe's body was found outside,
which raises questions about Alton Bud Brown.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
If you look at the evidence, blood was all over
the house and he was outside, so that showed you
that Charles was trying to get some help. So that
made me think that this guy was struggling and fighting
for his life. And Bud, whatever his name is, I
was wondering why he never Rander aid.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
To Ivory's point, there's still a lot of confusion and
mystery around the exact incidents that place in Alton Bud Brown.
He was interviewed the one time, I believe after the incident,
and he wasn't called to testify at trial.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
He said what he had allegedly just heard and that
he hadn't seen any of the assailants. And according to
Xavier Stevenson's Affidavid, the arm group left with a camquarder,
a police scanner, and a cell phone.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
The next day, a knock came at the door, probably
around ten some because I never forget because Price's right
was on and that's when the female friend that I
was staying with, she answered the door and she was like,
it's black. I went outside and holler led him whatever,
and that's when an Xavier Stevens was trying to sell
me the phone. So I was like, at work, that's
the first thing I asked, when I should have asked
where you got it from. I used the phone just
(06:45):
to call the house to hear the house phone ring.
I didn't know she was going to pick up the
phone and work. I say what you want for and
he was like twenty dollars? So I said where you
get it from? So he was like, man, don't worry
about all that, bro, Do you want it or not?
And when his demeanor change, I was like, nah, I'm good.
At that time, Comiskey had pulled up and he was
asking to use the house phone because at that time
we was hustling and we all had pages. So I
(07:07):
was like, well, shit, he got a phone. He's trying
to saill right now.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Ivory's friend, Comiski Lockett, ended up using the cell phone too,
and was also later allegedly identified by Clifford Tyler, a
guy I renewed from middle school, but first Tyler identified
no one.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
So when he was first interviewed, this was July eleventh,
nineteen ninety four, post surgery, so immediately the day after
his statement was that there were more than one suspect,
but he only saw one. The one suspect he saw
was the first man through the door. He thinks the
first suspect said something similar to give it up prior
to starting shooting, but the suspects were shooting before they
(07:47):
had a chance to react. His initial description was a blackmail,
short and skinny in his thirties.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah, I was nineteen years old, he said. The guy
was short, a dog African male. I was already like six' to,
one like brown, skin the same COLOR i am. Now
they tried to make LIKE i was darker back.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Then it was.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Crazy now it just ain't, me. Man.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
LIKE a couple of days, later the female friend THAT
i was staying, with she told me that a police call,
here AND i say the police for? What you, Know
i'm a drug, Dealer So i'm, like the hell the
cops call her? For and she like, homicides something about
a phone maybe that phone, dead old, boy trying to
sell your dumb.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Ass lafonda's home phone, record as well As ivory's, pager
would prove that he was At lafonda's during the. Crime after,
all that's how he made a, living right he'd get,
paiged call back on the home phone and do. Business but,
nevertheless the police must have been checking the cell phones,
activity which led them to Call lafonda's home.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
PHONE i called the police station trying to see what
the hell they was calling my house. For they was,
like who are? You AND i was, Like Ivory dorser
he called my house or such An it's like there
was a murder of. Vegigation were trying to see who
had the phone in because he tell us. ANYTHING i, say,
Man i'm not trying to get him. Ned did you
just say somebody got? Killed i'm trying to protect my.
People i'm not finna get involved IN. Ned so he was,
like can you come down to the. STATION i, say
(09:06):
come down to the. Station you already got my. Address
you come over here and high limit my whole family
gonna be him my. Lawyer it was, like you don't
need no. Lawyer we ain't trying to do all. That
we just want to talk to you see if you
know a couple of these guys that type of. Thing
so he never, came never seen.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Him and perhaps Since ivory wouldn't risk his and his
family safety to further their, investigation they kept him in
mind for a later date because this meant that he
knew who had the cell phone. Right but he didn't
hear any more about this investigation until over a year,
later in which Time Clifford tyler viewed two.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Lineups august twenty, fifth nineteen ninety, four the lead detective
shows him a. Lineup that detective points to the guy
in the second position and ask if he shot at,
him to which Mister tyler responds that he never really
got a good look at the. Suspects On august, eleventh
nineteen ninety, five this is when Mister tyler's brought to
the police Station Charles monroe's. Mother he was shown another photo.
(10:04):
Lineup one of the photo lineups the lead, detective he,
says point out the guy with the gold. Tooth and
so that's when Mister tyler points To, kamiski Because comiski
is a man from the neighborhood who had a gold
tooth at the. Time he, says he's half, shirts Mister
lockett half shirts not because it happened so, quickly so.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
It appears That, Kamisky lockett And ivory were their preferred.
Suspects considering the statement that was produced about a week,
earlier On august, seventh nineteen ninety, five with a woman
Named Letitia henderson who was in jail facing her own.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Charges so she said she was staying at a woman's.
Apartment the woman Is, Squeaky Squeaky's ivory's. Aunt letitia said
she couldn't provide a, day a, time she couldn't, remember
but she just remembers being there one, time and she
Said ivory was there, frequently and she Heard ivory in
the back room with some other guys saying that he
(10:58):
had hit a. Lick and she saw a lartch amount
of money on the. Bed she saw a black, pistol
and she said that she with another woman that she
was incarcerated, with determined it had to have Been ivory
who Killed monroe Because ivory always carried a mask and
he drove the same blue cars one described by the.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Neighbors they said that she said That's july to, tenth
nineteen ninety. Four she was At squeaky. House Well squeaky was.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Incarcerated she wind up getting locked Up december ninety three
or something like, that writing Hot, chicks and they came
and Vict us out the. House the constables did and
they locked that door. Up nobody was in the. House july,
tenth nineteen ninety.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Four the police then Interviewed squeaky and that's When squeaky
said she had never Seen Letitia henderson in her.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Life, nevertheless they Visited ivory for the first.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Time the investigators was asking, me do you know this?
Guy do you know that? Guy i'm like.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
No when they mentioned to The fertiler name we had
went to middle, school was like and their name. Familiar
so WHEN i asked around the, neighborhood somebody, say, man that's,
toughy AND i was, like, Toughy oh, SHIT i Know.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Toughy he KNOW i ain't coming his.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
House i'm gonna just go high let him and ask
him to go to the police station with. Me now
do you THINK i would actually come in his, house
kill his, friend shoot him and his other, homeboy and
then come to him and ask him.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
To go to the police.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Station now that doesn't sound. Likely so even with Seeing
ivory in the, Flesh tyler wouldn't Corroborate Lutitia henderson's clearly false.
Statement but, yet the state later claimed That tyler was
just too scared to come.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Forward the theory that prosecutors put forth that he was
scared to come, forward scared to be able to, snitch
is questionable because he cooperates with the police seven times
throughout the twelve. Years one of the times was in
two thousand and. One the police report says that he
spoke to the lead, detective but we have no summary
about what was said during that.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Interview and then in two thousand and, Six Harris county
began reopening cold cases and they Paid Clifford tyler another
visit That, april and we're not sure, why but by
this time it seems he was ready to.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Cooperate his statement is that he could recall everything from
nineteen ninety four like it happened, yesterday and that's when
the lead detective made a photo. Spread Mister tyler pointed
to the individual in the three, position which the police
report says Is Aaron, brown and that's when Mister tyler
says he's positive that he was.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
There Aaron brown is the brother of a previous guest
on this, Show alfred D Wayne, brown who left a
really powerful impression on. Me by the, way we'll link
alfred interview in the episode. Description strangely though The browns
And ivory all grew up in The Villa, Americana so
maybe there's a pattern of policing in impoverished black. Neighborhoods
(13:43):
certainly seems that way in this. One but either, way
That Aaron brown idea was ignored and the police went
back To Clifford. Tyler that may where he Id'd ivory And,
camiski both of whom had contact with this drug house
cell phone Through Xavier.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Stevenson IF i did something like, This, hill why WOULD
i even use the phone to call my phone? MAN
i won't even took no damn cell. Phone xaviers had
to be crazy to even do something like. That you
know What i'm saying, now real toll. Man and by that,
Time Exaviers stevenson wind up catching two murder cases behind
a ten cent dispute in the, store so he wind
(14:20):
up going on death.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Row it seems that the police didn't know About, xavier
but rather that this cell phone both led To ivory And,
comiskey but that it also led to phone and pager
records that would Prove ivory's. Innocence so how do they
Used tyler's identification and ignore how they got To ivory
in the first. Place the cell. Phone, well the police
(14:43):
claimed that a man Named Kelton smith said That ivory
had confessed to, him leading them back To Clifford, Tyler
but the last recorded interaction With tyler was that.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Spring now they said they talked To Kelter smith In? October,
right how did he you go? Back this is not
a time. Machine nobody never caught that, though BUT i.
Did how'd you gonna talk to somebody In october and
then say you go back from the new evidence that you,
discovered you go back and go talk to?
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Him and may you can't, obviously but now they had
a path to an indictment without mentioning the cell.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Phone the charging instrument was filed On december, nineteenth two
thousand and. Six it Lists Letitia, Henderson Clifford tyler his,
lineup and Then Kelton, smith who testified and recanted a
statement at. Trial but those three and not the, phone
were sited in the charging instrument Against. Ivory ivery never
(15:38):
had the opportunity to exercise his right to Question Letitia
henderson since she was one of his.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Accusers the case should have been dismissed because that's what
they act. Like they had from the get.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Go it wasn't That Letitia henderson was listed as a
state's witness and didn't show. Up she wasn't even listed
as a state. Witness.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Wow so trial began In december two thousand and seven
without Either letitia or the freaking cell, phone but rather
the other surviving, Victim Willie.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Williams and that's when he revealed to the jury that
he had met with The District attorney at the time
the night. Before so this was the night After varder
In ivory's, case and when he arrived at the DA's,
Office Clifford tyler was there and they had spoken about
the case and bits and.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Pieces Willie williams was sitting in there with THE dja
corroborating their. Statement but the interesting thing about Mister, williams
like he told the, Truth like this man was not
one of the mans that came to my house that,
night but the police he'll be like he tentively ideed,
him just saying stuff like, that and it was all a.
Lie the man, SAID i never seen his man. Before he,
(16:43):
said he's seen a Dark African american male and he's
seen a Bright African american male that was like high.
Yellow you know What i'm, Saying i'm neither one of.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Them So Willie williams was more of a defense, witness
as Was Calton, smith who they claimed had Heard ivory.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Confess basically was telling him like, this what you said
on this Affid? Davis he, said you may HAVE Affi,
davis BUT i have assigned. Anything so he just told the.
Truth like me and him never had a conversation about
me telling him THAT i killed white. Boy he told, me, say,
MAN i don't even talk like, that Like i'm running
around the neighborhood of Saying i'll kill somebody or. Something
he said that they threatened him if he didn't say
(17:21):
what they wanted him to, say he won't gonna go
home this.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Family Kelton smith's testimony was first On december, eleventh so
that night is when the district attorney at the time
saw him and threatened. Him and then it's On december
twelfth that he, SAYS i was. Intimidated they said THAT
i wouldn't see my daughters IF i changed my testimony
When i'm supposed to be released In. May and then
that's when the district attorney was trying to get him
(17:45):
to go into how much bigger he is than, her
and how could she possibly be intimidating to? Him and
that's when he mentioned he, Said i'm not intimidated, physically
but when you're a part of the system and you
threatened to prevent me from seeing my, daughters THAN i am.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Intimidated Kelton smith was the last unintentional defense. Witness but
it seems Like ivory's attorney didn't prepare or even mount
a defense of his.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Own he didn't talk to none of THE da. Witnesses
he never talked to none of my. Witnesses and he'll
tell them someone they can, understand even A. Celton he was,
like did you ever talk to me or?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Anybody?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
No did anybody promise you your statement for your such?
Initiinate he was, like, no never seen, him never talked to.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Anybody ivory's attorney declined to make an opening. Statement there
were no defense witnesses during the guilt and innocence phase
of this. Trial there's just questions of Whether ivory really
had effective assistance of.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Counsel it certainly seems that. Way i've retold him about
the phone records and begged him to Subpoena Xavier.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Stevenson BUT i told my, lawyer, hey, man you need
to subpoena this, guy like along with my alibi, witnesses
BECAUSE i could prove THAT i was somewhere. Else so
my lawyers he always told me the case was, weak
AND i was trying to build a defense for. Myself
but he was always, saying.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Man you're innocent to proven.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Guilty everybody knows that's a, lie especially when you're a black.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Man you not innocent to prove, guilty not In Harrison.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
County so all it took Was Clifford, tyler who they
claimed to overcome a fear of reprisal to Identify ivory
after twelve, years a fear that they tried to support
by talking about When ivory had reached out to him
in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Five he even mentioned this on the stand THAT i
was at the flea market AND i was by. Myself
he was with his, cousin he was with his, brother
he was with his, homeboy AND i was asking you
to go to the police station with. Me that's why
my lawyer was, like, well it seemed like he was
trying to clear his, name and he, said what did you?
Say he, SAID i didn't want to see. HIM i
didn't want to talk to. HIM i just want to
sat in the. Car, now that's a. Lie we didn't
(19:42):
have no beef with each. OTHER i never knew that
he was a person that didn't like. ME i never
knew that he Would god understand and do something like
this to.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Me and it's not like he hadn't cooperated with police
seven times over twelve. Years and something telling happened when
the assistant District, Attorney Rachel, ponk asked him about the identification.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Process she, said did you tell anybody from law enforcement
that it Was Ivory dorsey who done this before they
showed you the picture of?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Him or after they showed him the? Picture and he said,
after IF.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
I had to show you a picture of someone before
you said was, them that's not your coming.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Forward you never.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Knew who it, was especially when he'd Known ivory for many.
Years and it appears that this pattern.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Continued he would say one minute that they, like what
did you see when the door? Open he'll say chrome
gun or something like, that and then she'll switch it
up and, then, oh, NA i saw a pump shotgun
to make LIKE i got the murder weapon and then
he said something about LIKE i was the shortest, guy
AND i was, LIKE i was six. Ones that's against
what the witness, said you, know like he was freestyling
(20:45):
and they was misleading him the whole.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Time but despite the issues with his, testimony it appears
to have Scared ivory's trial attorney into scrambling a last
minute alibi witness with the help Of ivory's friend and,
mentor Mister.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Perkins now he's, REALIZING I i guess that Am i'm
gonna send this man to prison for something he didn't.
Do and he's, like do you think, that Mister, perkinson.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Go get your son.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Mother SO i had talked to my son mother night
before and he went over there and nobody answered the,
door and he was, like, man the light was, ON
i heard THE tv playing the.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Number nobody came to the. Door so it's like.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
WOW a couple years, LATER i didn't find out that
she was pregnant by another guy and she had a
baby that same day THAT i was going to.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Try that's why she wasn't.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
There AND i.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Think the trial attorney realized after there was a guilty verdict.
Rendered and it's during the defense's closing remarks when the
trial attorney, admits and this is, verbatim the attorney, says
how easy it is to convict a young black. Man
it's just. Easy this is. Obscene this is obscene what you.
Did and it's Not ivory. Door she's. Fault it's. MINE
i had ten strikes and OBVIOUSLY i didn't use them
(21:52):
appropriately or properly in this. Case.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Man at that, Moment i'm talking to guard in my
head And i'm, LIKE i didn't even do. This is
it's somebody that you want me to. Meet DO i
supposed to go to the. Penitentiary it's something that you
want me to, do Because i'll. Go but you KNOW
i didn't do. This i'm innocent of. This AND i
heard this Scripture joshua one through. Nine he was, saying
(22:16):
don't be. Afraid i'll go with you. Wherever you know
What i'm, saying be strong and be very. Courageous i'm
gonna be with you wherever you.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Go that's WHAT i.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Heard and WHEN i got in the shower that, night
BUT i cried like twenty years for something THAT i didn't.
DO i didn't understand why all this was happening to.
(22:47):
Me you, know losing my mother at a young, age
trying to take care of my, sister trying to do
things like why did this guy get up there and
lie on? Me DID i hurt this guy in some
kind of way?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Intentionally?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
UNKNOWINGLY i didn't know What i'm, saying and seeing him do,
that LIKE i, THOUGHT i was something THAT i wasn't
WHEN i first got locked up for this, BRO i
ain't gonna.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
LIE i w wasn't strong like. This NOW i wanted
to commit.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
SUICIDE i felt LIKE i had let my kids. DOWN
i had promised my kids THAT i would always be
there for them BECAUSE i didn't have a, daddy you
know What i'm. Saying AND i promised them, like, man
if anything happened to, ME i want y'all always to
take care of each other and be with each. Other they,
separated we all. SEPARATED i wouldn't seeing them and stuff like.
That and that's when time started really getting to. ME
i wouldn't seeing my, people AND i love hard, MAN
(23:31):
i love my, people you know What i'm. Saying reality kicked.
IN i had to get on my, knees could just be,
grateful just. SURVIVE i started drawing, them you, know and
the music and stuff like. That that became my cell.
THERAPY i had to rely on the, real livey. DOORS
i had to go back to being myself WHEN i
was a kid AND i used to draw those, pictures
and that stuff started coming back to. Me, Man that's
what helped me get through this. TIME i started cutting
(23:53):
hair and just vibing with different. People now was showing
me how to go to the law, library how to do,
research how to work on the. Lot and that's When
god started introducing me to people, inside like a guy
Named Danny.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Anderson in addition to guys Like, Danny ivory wrote to
many attorneys and innocence organizations and received support from The
Texas Innocence, project who reached out To Xavier.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Stevenson and before, THAT i had a dream That Exavier
stevenson he had came on the same UNIT i was.
On he's, like what are you doing? Here AND i,
say may you know that cell phone you tried to sell?
Me and he, said don't worry about. IT i got
you AND i woke up in a cold. Switch that's
WHEN i got The Alpha davis from.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Him by this, Time xavier's defense team was able to
get his death sentence thrown out he.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Had an intellectual. Disability he was charged with murdering two
people over ten cents in a convenience. Store so the
courts ruled that it would be violating his right that
prevents against cron unusual punishment if he was put to,
death and so his sentence was commuted to. Life he
is pro eligible in twenty forty.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
And in direct conflict with that, Objective xavier wrote an
affidavit Supporting ivory.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Edis when he found out THAT i was incarcerated for
something that he had, done he does The. AFFIDAVID i
Think september twenty. TWELVE i get the Affid. David Immediately i'm, like,
Wow i'm finna ask for evidentier HERE i KNEW i
was finna go.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Home you know What i'm. Saying it's twenty.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Twelve we talked about twelve years, ago thirteen years, ago
AND i was talking to this guy Named Larry. Brown
because Now i'm on a different unit From, DANNY i
reach out To danny and we found out That danny's
Did i'm, like, Wow so REMEMBER i just got a
whole rit done By Danny anderson twenty seven grounds that
he found in the. Case that's how bad it. Was
(25:35):
And larry was, like how you gonna do. That you're
gonna do? ACT i, say Because i'm actually. Innocent and
it was, Like, okay you can do, that but you
can't file all the.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Grounds his Friend Larry brown advised him to will down
the filing to his eight strongest constitutional claims to pair
with his actual innocence claim and newly discovered.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
EVIDENCE i filed it in twenty. Fifteen when you file something,
good they gonna delay. You when you file something, bad
they gonna deny.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
You. Man they got so many ways to just tell you,
KNOW i wrote the judge this, LEFT i asked.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
THEM i, said up from the bottom of my, Heart,
MAN i put everything on my mother's, GRAVE i, said.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
MAN i told the.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
JUDGE i, say, man, LOOK i don't even care about
no money or none of.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
That you know What i'm. Saying it was this out For.
Davis please just let me go.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Home SO i could save my son from coming to
the penitential of getting killed on the streets Of. HOUSTON
i just want to go home SO i can finish
raising my. Kids but they held that.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Rid deny or. Delay this went on until another friend
Named Steve morgan helped him get the evidentiary hearing that
he deserved A navy.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Seal he the one got me, back do the. Evidence you're.
Here they bench warmed me. Back they reset me like
twenty two. TIMES i wind up staying in the county
twenty two. Months they resetted me every, month and they
USED covid for an excuse like they always do to.
DELAY i finally got my day in. COURT i just
KNEW i was finna go. Home Exavier stevenson got up
(26:57):
there and exonerated, me really told the truth about.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Everything Mister stevenson went through very specific details of the
crime that you could not have known about if you weren't.
There he recalled that there were three cars in the,
driveway that there were nice rims in the, house and
this matches the police. Report he identified that there were
men in the kitchen clipping each other's. Hair he recalled
a pool table right in the front. Room he just
(27:21):
recalled things very.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Accurately they tried to cross him up and make like
he was lying and like he was doing me a.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Favor how you doing me a, favor Mister.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Stevenson he also filed a habeas write at the time
of the evident your, hearing he hadn't heard. Back he's
still eligible for. Parole he comes up For pearl and twenty.
Forty he had, children so if, anything he jeopardized himself
by coming.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Forward it was very. Emotional he broke down. Crying it
made me start crying BECAUSE.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I couldn't believe that it was steal people on Planet
earth that would tell the truth about something that they.
Did AND i mirre that a man would stand up
and take responsibility for his own. DESTINY i wouldn't let
no nobody go down for.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Me.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Man If i've done, SOMETHING i tell y'all done. It
AND i was, wondering, like why is the family not?
Here why the victim family not? Here like they should
have been there to hear. That his mother should have
been there to hear. That you know What i'm, saying
to get some type of, closure real. Talk, well the youngest,
(28:30):
son he feels like since his mother had passed AND
i had been, gone he had told me THAT i
really needs you out. Here when you think you're gonna get,
OUT i thought you was gonna win you a. Pill
AND i was trying to explain to him THAT i
am gonna win my, pill just speaking by. Faith just
bad with, Me, man just hold, On i'm. TRYING i
told him like. THIS i, Say, Man i'm in the
middle of a war AND i don't have no. GUN
(28:50):
i don't have no. Bullets i'm over here making bullets
and make an assault rifles to fight these. People BECAUSE
i don't have the. AMMUNITION i have to get in
these books AND i have to learn this and ask
questions BECAUSE i don't. Notice this is not my. Language
see you could thank you got so much game until
you go on in front of them.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Votes, well they've still been holding. It you know What i'm.
Saying they've just been delaying it, like never heard nothing back.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
From it's really unbelievable when the actual assailment comes forward
and their response is just that they just want to
bury their heads in the. Sand but luckily are good
friends At, Georgiatown Mark howard and the one and Only Marty. Tankliffe,
well they're branching out to other college, campuses And princeton
(29:35):
agreed to offer their making an ex. Recourse in the
spring semester Of kennedy's senior year in.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
High, SCHOOL i interned at The Ohio Innocence project and
was really blown away WHEN i met some of the
exoneries who talked about how they had been screwed by
the legal, system AND i spent all of colleges trying
to learn more about, it which is during the spring
semester of my senior years when this class was. Offered
it was a no. Brainer we were given four cases
to read, through And ivory stuck out immediately because the
(30:05):
case summary described that someone had come forward and, confessed
But ivory was still in, prison which not knowing anything
else about his. Case that's mind. Blowing and so with
one of our, professors we'd have calls and we'd go
over exactly what we were doing for the. Investigation we
all would, workshop so these would happen. Weekly we'd Update
ivory on who we spoke, to what we found through
(30:27):
going through the police, reports the trial, transcripts Which ivory
had not received at that. Point we were the first
people to Send ivory his files because he couldn't access.
Them So ivory was seeing this material for the first,
time and so we were all going through like, seeing
oh my, gosh on page like twenty, six line, seven
look at, this like look at what this person. Said
(30:48):
we had Visited houston. Twice both trips were interviewing. Witnesses
it was also Meeting ivory's family in, person because we
wanted to get to know the people who were imported
In ivory's life and help them connect with. Them it
was really just everything we worked on his, case but
it was more so making sure that he was fully set.
Up he was connected to people he hadn't been connected within, years.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
And like so many of us in this, movement once
you see, it you just can't turn.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Away ken and them they did a little bit more
than what they told, You like they was sending us, books,
money making SURE i had something to. Eat they did
more than what they had. To they could have just
did just for a grade and moved, on but, no
they got. Involved they got in the foxhole with. Me
they became family man real.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Toe In may of twenty twenty three is WHEN i
graduated AND i started working, immediately and So ivory AND
i adjusted our call. Schedules we still worked on his
case and we shifted to, parole and so that was
WHEN i was working with two other, Students ben And,
carry and we all kind of worked on. It ivory
had all of his educational, Certificates we got over eleven
(31:57):
eleven to twelve letters of rec tracked down his childhood
pastor to write a letter of. Recommendation he got a
hold of his disciplinary record which had four non violent,
infractions with the latest infraction being like twenty, twelve and
it was like you were late to class because your
door was barricaded from. Something Just we put together a
(32:19):
pearl packet that ended up being one hundred and nine,
pages And ivory had an attorney from an innocence clinic
out Of Texas southern who stepped in to Represent ivory
during his parole. Hearing so that takes us Through december
of twenty twenty. Three ivery. One did you get the
official letter that you were a proof of? Parole?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Wow seven less.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Light.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
YEAH i just remember refreshing the page that morning seeing
that you were, approved and THEN i Messaged ivory On
securists AND i said call me in all, caps which
is WHEN i was able to tell you that you
were approved for.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Parole, yeah AND i broke.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Down, yeah, yeah we both.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
Did i've never been on parole because this is like
my first time really being IN, tdc So i'm asking
all the, inmates, like, hey what's this? All you got
to go to a rehabilitation. Thing so WHEN i got
to the, program my son was. There this is the
twelve year old that was at the house with me
that day WHEN i got. Arrested my ten and twelve year,
old but this was my oldest, son my, junior AND
i haven't seen him in eighteen. Years so WHEN i
(33:19):
get to the, UNIT i got a chance to hugg. Him,
man we sat there and talked for a, while and we,
vibe you know What i'm, saying just chopping it up
and everything by his, brother by his. Situation HOW i
wanted to see him on the outside so we could
sit down and have. DINNER i want to restore our
relationship with my kids and get everything going back.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Together just seeing my. Son and then it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Because the drugs inside the system with the kids and,
stuff and now you know What i'm, saying that my
child eventually was doing this and it hurted, me AND
i was trying not to get into it with him
because it's at this time when you have to be a.
Father but Then i've been gone for eighteen, years so
AND i try to tell him, something it's like we
would bump heads with each.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Other BUT i was. HURT i had missed.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
HIM i missed on trying to discipline, him AND i
couldn't tell him.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Nothing and he's back in cars of.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Raided he got out like about four months before me
and went back to the. County AND i wind up
getting Out february.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
The, fifth and he went back. In was it the
day that you got out or was it was a
few days, Before.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Yeah violating his parole of.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Curfew AND i never got a chance to chop it
up with, him you know What i'm.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Saying in the free.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
World AND i talked to him on the phone and
stuff like, that but, MAN i just don't get. IT
i love, him, Man and every TIME i call, Him i'm,
like just take care of. YOURSELF i just want to
see you out there and take care of my, grandbaby
which is his. Daughter she played, basketball she run. Track
smart little, girl need her. DAD i can't even go
to a game and see her play BECAUSE i can't
go To Harris. COUNTY i can't go see none of
my family In Harris. County you know What i'm. SAYING i, said,
(34:50):
WELL i just got to be. Grateful at LEAST i
Know i'm.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Gome we wish you nothing but the best on your
continued struggle to clear your. Name and as we're all
aware both that legal battle and even just, surviving nothing
comes for. Free And ivory is, working but he needs
more support than he can. Muster so we're going to
(35:14):
be linking his GoFundMe in the episode, description and we'll
follow his social. Media we're going to put in the
episode description so we can follow his progress and who,
knows maybe even get to hear some great.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
MUSIC i want to release this song That i'm working.
On it's called it Was All just A. Dream i'm
coming from my. Mother he had it to my. FATHER
i want to release that For mama and all the
mothers in the, world grandmother's baby, mothers BECAUSE i lost
my son mother WHILE i was going. Too SO i
just want to dedicate this to the women man who have.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Children and then if social media is at Bring ivory.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Home so please scroll down and Support. Ivory and with,
that we're going to go to closing, arguments where first of,
ALL i want to thank each of you from the
bottom of my heart for being here closing. Arguments i'm
going to turn my microphone off and just kick back
in my chair and listen to anything else each of
you want to. Share, kennedy you started, off and then
when you're, done just hand the microphone off To ivory
(36:05):
and he'll take us off into the.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Sunset thank you so much for having us in giving
us the opportunity to share ivory story with the. World
it's as infuriating as it. Sounds there are as many
questions as you think there. Are we're still finding new
stuff every, day and while we've had the, OPPORTUNITY i
think to talk about the hallmarks of wrongful conviction that
(36:27):
are In ivory's, case the inconsistent eyewitness, testimony the ineffective
assistance of, counsel official misconduct throughout the trial and during
the appellate. Phase there were also a lot of smaller
injustices throughout the way That ivory had to deal, with
one of which being staying connected with. Family it's really
expensive and when you rely on those family and friends
to support you mentally and spiritually as well as to
(36:51):
help you fight for your, innocence it's really. Hard so
that was one just the challenges with. Parole ivory found
out that he was not being released until year after
he was given, parole and it was in the fall
that he was told he couldn't step foot In Harris,
county which is where his entire parole packet laid out
his reentry. Plan so just the challenges of parole as another.
(37:13):
Injustice he's. Faced the. Heat there's no ac Inside texas,
prisons And ivory can speak to how hot it was
throughout the. Summer that's why we were rushing to get
him released when we found out that he was approved In,
january so that he wouldn't have to spend another summer
inside Of texas. Prisons and the last Thing ivory worked
all throughout his, incarceration but he wasn't paid a. Cent
(37:35):
and so these are some of the injustices that he
also had to deal with that weren't part of his
fighting for his innocence per, se but just details to
keep in mind as there are other people fighting for their.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Innocence this injustice in this, world, man it's like a.
Disease it's not going to own my door, now but
tomorrow can be knocking on. Yodo there's no respective. PERSON
i don't care who he. Is it doesn't matter if
you black or. WHITE i got friends inside that's black and.
White That's meskins that's going through the same. Thing AND
i don't want to forget those, guys you know What i'm.
(38:08):
Saying AND i think this happened to me BECAUSE i
judged a. Man i'll never forget. IT i was sitting
on the couch Youre. No six AND i seen this
man on the news and they said he had raped these.
KIDS i don't even know this, man BUT.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I judged this.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Man god showed me that same man coming out in
two thousand and nine where he was exonerated BY, dna
and this TIME.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
I was in.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Jail it made me look at life. Different, Man like
if you don't know, something shut your damn.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Mouth people don't. Understand it ain't gotta be, You it
can be your.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Kids Maybe god allowed me to go through this to
help somebody else out that's gonna go through this because
he told Me i'm bringing you out of your. Valley
but the other people that's gonna have to go through.
This this injustice is. Everywhere people keep ignoring it like
it doesn't, matter but we need to do something different for.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Real it's like. Cancer, man.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Thank you for listening to wrongful. Conviction you can listen
to this and all The lava For good podcasts one
week early and ad free by subscribing To lava For
Good plus On Apple. PODCASTS i want to thank our production,
Team Connor hall And Kathleen, fink as well as my
fellow executive Producers Jeff, Kempler Kevin, wartis And Jeff. Cleiber
the music in this production was supplied by three TIME
(39:20):
oscar nominated Composer Jay. Ralph be sure to follow us
across all social media platforms At lava For good and
At Wrongful. Conviction you can also follow me On instagram
At It's Jason. Flamm Wrongful conviction is a production Of
lava For Good podcasts and association With Signal Company Number.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
One we have worked hard to ensure that all facts
reported in this show are.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Accurate the views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured
in this show are their own and do not necessarily
reflect those Of lava For good
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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