June 5, 2025 • 32 mins
Ben Bowlin, new co-host of Wrongful Conviction and host of the long-standing podcast Stuff the Don’t Want You to Know and Jason Flom from the Wrongful Conviction podcast had the honor of sitting down for many hours to speak with Leonard Peltier about his personal life, the historical context of the resistance movement and events that led to the attack on Jumping Bull Ranch in ‘75, as well as his near 50 year fight for justice that led to his sentence commutation in the final minutes of the Biden Administration.
In part two of this three-part series, the FBI had such a large suspect list after the shootout on Jumping Bull Ranch that it included every native combat veteran in the area and even a 4-year-old. But soon the target list was narrowed down to Dino Butler, Bob Robideau, and Leonard Peltier. Both Butler and Robideau were soon arrested, tried, and acquitted, successfully arguing self defense.
But Leonard tells us how he sought help from Marlon Brando, and asylum in Canada before the presentation of false evidence brought him back to the US to stand trial.
The Wrongful Conviction of Leonard Peltier is a production of Lava For Good™ Podcasts in association with Signal Co. No1. It follows the January 2025 Sundance premiere of the documentary FREE LEONARD PELTIER, a searing investigation of the case from Public Square Films and directors David France and Jesse Short Bull.
We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported in this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Lava for Good.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Previously, on our coverage of Leonard Piltier, we talked about
the history that gave rise to Native activism like aim
the American Indian Movement in the nineteen sixties and seventies.
In addition to a focus on treaty violations, land reclamation,
and other issues, Aims supported the resistance to mining interest
in South Dakota, but they were met in force by
(00:26):
a federally funded paramilitary group called the Goon Squad that
perpetrated a reign of terror beginning in nineteen seventy two
on the Pine Ridge Reservation, leaving sixty unsolved murders in
its wake. So on June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy five,
when two plain close agents and unmarked vehicles drove onto
(00:48):
an AIME stronghold and drew their weapons, they were both
killed before the conveniently stationed SWAT teams could swoop in,
leaving the FEDS to figure out how they prosecuted someone
for defending their own community. This is wrongful conviction. You're
(01:12):
listening to wrongful conviction. You can listen to this and
all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and
ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on
Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction, where I'm once
(01:32):
again thrilled to be joined by Ben Bolan from one
of my favorite podcasts, Stuff They Don't Want You to Know.
As we continue now our coverage of the wrongful conviction
of Leonard Peltier.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
To help tell the story, we'll hear again from the
man himself, one of his co defendants, Dino Butler, as
well as one of his attorneys, Bruce Ellison. In addition,
we'll hear from one of his appellate attorneys, Ron Cooby.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
We'll pick up Leonard's story where we left off last
time on June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy five, when federal
forces had Jumping bull Ridge surrounded and it seemed like
an eagle was showing Leonard Peltier, Dino Butler, and Bob
Rogudoo to safety. They had made their way into a culvert,
one of those sometimes barely walkable drainage pipes that travel
(02:19):
under roadways. They had stopped there to pray, and, almost
as if by divine intervention, a surveillance plane left the area,
so they made their move, unsure of their fate or
of how many agents and goon squad members were still
up on the road.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
We had some young kids with us, and my responsibility
to make sure that they got safe. I sent them
ahead of me. I told them, go, I'll take up
the rear. And when they started shooting us, turn around
and start shooting back. And I'm not trying to make
myself and the hero. I was fighting for my life.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
And there were so many bullets flying around us. Man,
I just knew that somebody was going to get shot.
I could just feel the bullets buzzing around me. And
I ran and ran until I couldn't run no more,
and I just I thought, all hecky with it, and
I just lay down catch my breath. I was expecting
bullets to enter my body anytime.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
They were getting closer and closer to hit some of us,
so I would turn around to them, go keep going,
and I would start shooting back at them.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
I caught my breath, so I jumped up and I
started running again, and I couldn't see Leonard, I couldn't
see anybody, but I was praying that nobody was hurt.
And I ran until I couldn't run no more, and
I stopped, dropped on the ground. And I just kept
praying like that, no bullets entered my body. And I
got up again and I ran up.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
There was a little flat, so I finally made it
to the top, and here they come from the back
of the hill.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
So I turned around. I went back to the edge
of that platte, and there was a car coming up
the hill full of goons. I laid on the ground
and I emptied my gun out that car and it
turned around and ran back down the hill real fast.
And I couldn't believe we were all safe. None of
us got shot, no wounds or nothing. Man, when we
got up to the top of that hill, two brothers
(04:06):
come riding down on horseback and they said, Hey, what's
going on. What's happening, brothers?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I asked him, I said, what are you guys doing here?
He said, well, this is our people, this is our
war too. We are here to help you. And so
they led us out of there. These two young kids
came through a hail of bullet to come and help us.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
And that's a fact.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
The last time the FBI's horse heading out of there,
following those brothers on horseback, and Noah wounded lived up there,
and these brothers knew him and everything.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
He was the elder.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
That's where they took us. And he opened the door
and he says, I've been expecting you come on in.
So we all walked in there and he said, I
don't have much food. He said, but you're welcome to it.
And he said, you eat what you want.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I found out later that the whole reservation was praying
for us that we would get out of there. So
I believe it great spirit helped us get out of there.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
If we had done something wrong that day, we wouldn't
have got out of there. I mean that Diego helped us.
Those people help us. There was so much help.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
At this point, FBI agents examined the bodies and collected
bullets and casings, and they allegedly found one two twenty
three caliber shell casing in the agent's trunk, typical AMMO
for AR fifteen's. This becomes important later since none of
the agent's guns could fire that caliber. Agent Williams had
(05:33):
a handgun, which he allegedly fired only twice, while Agent
Kohler fired a handgun, three Toho eight rifle, and a
twelve gage shotgun once each.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Which sounds just as strange as the fact that these
two well trained agents only fired five shots total, just
five against an estimated one hundred and twenty five bullets
that were rained down on them by forty two different
shooters from the ranch, who, by the way, let's call
it what it is. They had every right to defend themselves,
(06:03):
especially when unidentified intruders had driven five hundred yards onto
private property and drawn their weapons, whether they had a
warrant or not.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
It was a day that should never have happened. Three
people unnecessarily died because of this government agenda.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
After the shooting, they wanted to course arrest somebody, and
they couldn't get nobody to talk to them.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
So the nationwide search starts.
Speaker 6 (06:32):
They even included at one point every Native man who
had ever been in combat in Indo, China on.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Their suspect list. Wow, they also included a four year old.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
While the FEDS tried to whittle down that suspect list,
AIM leadership, including Dennis Banks and Leonard Peltier, traveled out
west to gather financial support for whoever was about to
fight a tremendous legal battle, and one of their visits
was with the Godfather himself, Marlon fucking Brando.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
He was from Omaha, Nebraska. There's a big reservation right
on the border there, so his mother had some Native
blood in there. Marlon had been involved in a Native
struggle since the fifties. Dennis and I decided to go
to California and see some of our friends there to
see if to give us some financial help, and we
(07:26):
were successful in that. Marlon even gave us a mobile
home to take back with us to Pine Ridge. It
was literally a war scene.
Speaker 5 (07:35):
Now.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
You had FBI agents running around the fatigues, you had
helicopters flying all over, you had SWAT teams running around
the reservation.
Speaker 6 (07:45):
It was decided that they were going to break the
American indew movement. They were going to do it one
way or another. They were going to go as for
as they could with kind of insurgency. Helicopters, armored cars,
a lot of heavy weaponry being brought into Pine Ridge
and throughout the reservation. Over over the days, searches of homes,
(08:05):
terrorizing the people.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
They were threatening them, especially the kids. Somebody's going to
end up killing them because they were there. Something was
going to happen to their families. And they still couldn't
get nobody to talk to them because nobody knew nothing.
I dies, but nobody's going to talk to them anyway.
Speaker 6 (08:22):
The local people felt tremendous love and support towards the resistance.
But to counter that, you want to terrorize people so
that they don't help, or maybe they inform as an
attorney with the who they need Offense Committee. I was
on the ground right after the firefight Oglala. I was
still studying for the bar at that time, and if
(08:44):
Offense Comittee had a little hut where some of us
stayed overnight, and we got a call that there had
been a goon attack and we went probably equivalent about
three city blocks over to this house and you could
still see the dust in the air, and you could
smell courtite, You could see the terror and the fear.
That was a woman and a couple of kids, And
these are kind of unique experiences for a young Jewish
(09:06):
kid out of New York.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
But Bruce quickly got acquainted with the situation and he
told us about an AIM member named Byron Deserso. Deserts's
father read an underground newspaper that was critical of the
tribal chairman Dick Wilson and his federally funded pairamilitary group,
the Goon Squad, which had attacked Byron's friends.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
They started shooting at a young couple as they got
out of their car. The person who defended himself with
a single shot twenty two against semioma and automatic weapons
was arrested in his home for disorderly conduct. So Byron
was going there to see how he can help out.
And Byron was on his way home in Womblee and
a caravan of goons passed by and they riddled the
(09:49):
car with bullets and they killed Byron Breccacy. The other
three people in the car were not hurt and as
a winning defense cann't remember. We were asked to go
down and to investigate. And the first thing that we
were met with in the streets of Wombli, we were
surrounded by a SWAT team which questioned us at gunpoint.
(10:09):
But it was part of that fear there. They had
already destroyed two homes by fire bombing them. They had
shot up about a half a dozen homes.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Well, we started to protect the people again because of
all the chaos and terrorism they were committing against the
local citizens.
Speaker 6 (10:26):
There, and you know, staying overnight in that community and
watching the elders get together and give a warning to
the goons. You get out the next day by noon,
or we're going to come and take you out. Because
the government wasn't taking them out.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
It appears that Leonard's participation in resisting this continued reign
of terror put a target on his back.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Cornypi documents.
Speaker 6 (10:48):
They decided that Leonard had shot the agents two and
a half weeks after the firefight. And they made this
conclusion because they say they found some of his fingerprints
on some items that were in the camp area about
quarter from mile away from the scene.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Which says exactly nothing.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
But that was where they started from. And then they
went and they targeted four people Leonard, Dino Butler, Bob
Robberdew and Jimmy Eagle.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Jimmy Eagle, I wasn't even in the state. It was
on a Wyoming reservation. We didn't understand why we were indicted,
why we were being accused, because we don't know who
the real shooters are.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
They caught up with Dino Butler first.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
I was arrested in Rosebud and I was taking to Pierce,
South Dakota. I was put in jail there, Dad two
holding tanks, one tank where they put all the goons
and the other tank of where they put all the
AIM members.
Speaker 6 (11:45):
So first they captured Dino Butler in Rosebud and then
Bob Robberdy down in Kansas.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
In September nineteen seventy five, Bob Robadu and two other
AM members, Michael Anderson and Norman Charles, were traveling through Wichita,
Kansas in Leonards station wagon when either ammunition or an
explosive went off in the back of the vehicle, and
authorities found an AR fifteen inside the burning wreck, which
was then taken for comparison to the two twenty three
(12:11):
shellcasing allegedly found an Asian Kohler's trunk, and we'll hear
more about that later. But meanwhile they put pressure on Bob, Mike,
Norman as well as the people back on Pine Ridge
and continued to pursue both Jimmy Eagle and Leonard Peltier.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
They offered people money, cattle, They offered people land on
our own reservation. How the hell do you got a
right to offer us land on our own reservation to
become an informant, But the people said, no, we're not
going to do this to Leonard, you can kiss our ass.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
We're not going to do it.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
We're not going to get up there and make false
statements against him. So I was protected by the people,
but they were still continuing to do this for.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
Quite a while.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
And there is a treaty among the United States and
Canada that people can cross that border anytime they want.
So that's when the elders are telling me that I
should go to Canada and we could find out what
kind of evidence they got.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
According to the extradition agreement between the United States and Canada,
the authorities must produce convincing evidence of guilt for Canada
to extradite. So Leonard left for Canada in Marlon Brando's
motor home with Dennis Banks as well as with two
other individuals, and they made it to Oregon. Then they
(13:30):
were pulled over on November fourteenth, nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
We were traveling down the highway and this cop pulls
us over, and I think you jumped the gun because
right down the road they had a whole road blocks
and everything else set up, but just cop pulled us over.
Like I said, I think it was premature. He started
shooting and I tried to draw them shooting away from
camouting her kids. They were all laying on the ground
(13:56):
and there was cop screaming and yelling and all.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
This other shit.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
It so we've split up and we've shaped I did
get shot there still to this day have laded my body.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
Where were you shot Leonard in the back? That's a miracle.
If you weren't killed or paralyzed. You can't go to
a hospital.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
You can't go to hospital. And I'm wounded. Some of
the supporters that opened their homes for me, and so
I had a doctor comment, we're trying to get the
bullet out of my shoulder. And from there I went
in a state with various people. I think it was
at least six months.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
During which time Leonard's name went to the top of
the FBI's most wanted list before he went to Canada,
where he was picked up by the Royal Canadian Mounted
Police in Hinton, Alberta in February nineteen seventy six, and
then he was transported to the much less Native friendly
province of British Columbia.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
I went before a very conservative judge who was not
my friend, not Indians, native people's friends. It was quite
obvious even he said it was not going to turn
me back to the United States. He said, there is
no evidence. I can't just turn this man over. They
(15:23):
continued to develop false evidence. They created a false witness.
I never met her in my life, but she was
claiming she was my girlfriend and she was an eyewitness.
Speaker 7 (15:34):
And the FBI used what they knew to be a
perjured affidavit in order to obtain his extradition from Canada.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
This is one of Leonard's appellot attorneys, Ron Cooby. He's
explaining how the FBI found a woman named Mirgal poor Bear,
who gave three affidavits. Her first, which was initially hidden,
said that Leonard had confessed to her after the fact,
and then poor Bear swore two more affidavits saying that
she was an eye witness.
Speaker 7 (16:06):
Myrtle poor Bear, who was deeply psychotic, made a number
of different affidavids till she satisfied the FBI, and she
said she actually witnessed Leonard Pilteer shoot the agent's at
close range because she was there. Now everybody knew that
Myrtle poor Bear was nowhere near the scene of this.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
The people in the community stated out right that he
was the faith.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
They don't know her.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
They knew I was never a winner or not because
I had a girl from there. I had two kids there.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
And by the way, when murder Poor Bear was Leonard
Belteer's girlfriend, she was also a local aim leader's girlfriend
by the name of Dick Marshall, and later she claimed
that Dick Marshall confessed to her to killing a goon.
Speaker 7 (16:49):
Ancillary to that perjured Affid David was an Affid David
from firearms expert Evan Hodge that the shell case that
was found in the agent's car had extractor marks on it.
Extractor mark comparisons are not an exact science, unlike say,
(17:11):
firing pin comparisons.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
When a semi automatic weapon is fired, the firing pin
springs forward through the breach face behind the bullet. It
strikes the bullet primer, a small explosive that ignites the
propellant gunpowder, and this creates enough high pressure gas to
send both the projectile forward from its casing down the
barrel and sliding the casing back against the breach face
(17:36):
where it's grabbed by the extractor. This extractor slides the
casing further back where it's hit by the ejector and
then flies out an opening on the right side of
the gut.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Each movement leaves striations, and each machine part leaves marks
on the casing, which can then be compared to other
casings produced by test firing a suspect weapon, and really
all firearm analysis is best suited for excluding a firearm
rather than actually making definitive matches. However, the firing pin
(18:12):
test provides the most accurate reading, and it improved from
two D microscopic images in nineteen seventy five to the
three D imaging available by twenty ten, delivering up to
ninety eight point eight percent accuracy, Whereas extractor marks are
described as being able to identify class characteristics like the
make and model, but they have no value in identifying
(18:34):
the individual weapon well. Extractor marks were the subject of
Evan Hodge's Affidavid, which, along with Myrtle Poor bears Affidavid
one extradition. So while Leonard's team appealed the extradition and
Jimmy Eagle hadn't even been located yet, Dino and Bob
went to trial in July of nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
What do I went on trial and see the rapids
the FBI sent a team and they just terrorized those
people and see the rapids that they said that they
had two A members. I killed two fbis. No one
should go out alone by themselves. Don't leave your cars unlock.
They told them that there would be snipers up on
buildings and everything. There's going to be Dog soldiers terrorizing
(19:18):
the people and trying to set us free and all.
I mean, they really done a job on those people
before our trial.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
The term Dog Soldiers refers to a militaristic band of
the Cheyenne Nation dating back to the eighteen thirties. They
served as an effective bulwark against western expansion in present
day Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, and Wyoming.
Speaker 6 (19:39):
It was all about creating a climate of fear and terror.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
When my parents, our defense team came to see the rapids,
my mother and father, my little brother, no one would
take them in. Finally John Tredell and his group came
in and they started making speeches and talking to these people,
and the doors opened up, the church open up, and
they have some land to our people to set up
their camps there, and my mom and dad got a
(20:05):
hotel room. I mean, it was a beautiful what happened there.
Without those people, we would have probably been convicted there.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So the FBI's jurypool poisoning had been neutralized for civil
rights attorney William Kunstler to present the self defense theory,
while the prosecution now had to prove their narrative.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
The government's theory in about the Robberty trial was that
this was a pre planned ambush, and they argued that
and tried to assert it, and it kind of blew
up on their face in the middle of the trial.
It just became so ludicrous.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Initially, this narrative was built in part on Myrtle Poor
Bears affidavits, the ones which she also said that she
witnessed this group allegedly planning to lure agents into the
compound to be ambushed, but soon after the extradition proceedings,
she stopped cooperating with the FEDS. The FEDS then had
(21:00):
had to produce new testimony to assert that Bob and
Dino were part of some premeditated act.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
One of the things that the FBI was very successful
at was going into jails and finding people who were
in the same jail, maybe as a person who they
were targeting, and suddenly the targeted person would.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Confess them, of course, so how mus to this day,
that's right.
Speaker 6 (21:21):
And the FBI particularly liked to go to people who
are accused of breaking in homes.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
And raping women, four children, or elders.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
In this case, they found a man that was facing
extradition to Texas, where the Texas Rangers sent word that
if they get him back there, he's not going to
survive very long.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
His name was Vern Harper. He said that I confessed
everything to him in the jails, and the agreement that
he made with the government is that he would testify
against us if they would see that the charges in
Texas against him were dismissed.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
And you saw how much do you know, talked after
all these years. Usually people when they made denal Butler,
they might not hear him say a word for two weeks.
But nevertheless, that night those two became such good friends
that Dino confessed to not only being involved in killing
the agents, but also trying to assassinate a federal judge
in Rapid City.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
But Vern Harper was exposed for what he had stood
to gain, and then another witness, Wilford Draper, admitted that
he'd changed his story upon instruction from the FBI. Nonetheless,
Draper put an AR fifteen in Leonard's hands, as did
Norman Brown, who received immunity and later recanted. Brown placed
Bob Dino and Leonard near the agent's car with an
(22:37):
AR fifteen, but at this point the AR fifteen from
the car fire in Wichitah was only tacitly linked to
the two twenty three casing bound in Asian Kohler's car.
After all, there were other AR fifteens on Jumping Bull Ranch.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
In the public robbery trial, they presented testimony to basically
this weapon, this damaged AR fifteen that was found, and
witchta that they could not conclusively state that that weapon
had been used to fire at the agents because they
couldn't do a firing pin test on what was left
of this rifle, and it was a mess except for
(23:15):
what looked like a brand new bolt mechanism when we
saw it.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
The brand new bolt mechanism is important to remember for later,
but for now, there was no known firing pin test. Therefore,
this was a case of self defense. It's a case
where the FEDS thought they were in pursuit of Jimmy
Eagle in a red pickup truck and drove on to
the compound. A firefight started, and Robadu and Butler arrived
(23:39):
after the fact, unsure who they were exchanging fire with,
and that scenario wasn't exactly out of ordinary for them.
At this time, we.
Speaker 6 (23:49):
Were able to present members of the community, the people
of Pine Ridge, who came in and talked to the jury.
Helped them to understand what life was like during what
was regarded as the Reign of Terror, scores of people
being killed, people being kept on the floors of their
(24:10):
homes while bullets went through the walls. Clarence Kelly, the
FBI director at the time, we subpoened him and put
him on the witness stand and he admitted that everyone
has the right to defend themselves and it doesn't matter
who the aggressor is, and he even said even if
it's an FBI agent. And the jury became convinced that
(24:32):
Dino Butler and Bob Robert and Leonard had he been
on trial with them, were acting in self defense that
day in whoever was responsible for the killing of the
deaths of the agents.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Everybody knew that this was an American Indian Movement stronghold,
and they came right onto where the cars were found.
If they did that to a white community, they would
have been shot too. We were protectling in our homes
like any other American has the right to do, and
they got acquitted. The jury to all white jury Christians,
(25:09):
conservative juries said those Indians have the same rights as
we do to protect their homes, to protect their families and.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
Their children and everything else.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
That's why they were acquitted.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
The acquittals happened in seedar rapids. The jurors, some of
them in post trial interviews said by the way they
were treated, said they came away from the trial terrified
that they were going to face reprisals from the FBI
and the US marshalls.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
After I got out of jail, I came back to
Oregon at my mother and father's house in Cutler City.
One night, meing Neelock decided to go up to town
and we met my cousin in the bar there just
playing pool. And while we were there, this one guy
and one white guy. He came over to our table
(26:07):
and he started talking about these two FBI agans that
were killed, and he was saying how they deserved that
and all this and that. My cousin said, well, what
the hell are you talking about? And he said, get
the hell out of here. I don't know if he
was a FBI Asian or not, but he left. And
I had an uncle that lived about two blocks from
where we were at. My mom and dad lived about
(26:29):
a mile from where we were at, and we were
on foot, so I told Neila, let's walk up to
my uncle's place and we'll stay there tonight. So we
did that. Next morning, my little brother came up there
and told us that the FBI had raised at my
mom and dad's house. And he said when he woke up,
an FBI Asian was pointing a pistol at his head
and says, where's your fucking brother at. And when they
(26:51):
found out we weren't there, Mom, she said, one of
those Asians walked over to her and they told her,
you know, we may not have got him this time,
we will get him.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
We will get him.
Speaker 6 (27:02):
After the Butler robbery trial, the government kind of freaked
out and they decide that they're going to have a
meeting in Washington, DC at FBI headquarters. Prosecutors are their
the FBI's the air, and they either have to decide
that the agents followed Jimmy Eagle into the jumping boat compound,
which is what the deceased agents transmitted they were doing.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
Or they had to say.
Speaker 6 (27:27):
Jimmy Eagle was never there, and really it was Leonard
Peltier who was the killer.
Speaker 7 (27:32):
Somebody had to pay, and that somebody was going to
be Leonard Peltier. He was the last one available to them.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
So they made a decision to dismiss the charges against
Jimmy Eagle and in their words, put the full prosecutive
weight of the federal government to be directed.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
Against Leonard Peltier.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
So they decide that they have to if they're going
to win, they have to prove that Leonard did it.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Because Dino and Robert were able to prove that it
was self defense, they changed the whole story and said
that this was actually a cold blooded execution.
Speaker 6 (28:06):
Then suddenly this damaged day R fifteen that was found
in Wichita, which they never attributed to Leonard in any way.
That weapon had to have been the one that was
used to kill the agents, And they found the showcase
and that was a couple of feet away in the
open trunk, and therefore Leonard Muster did it.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
And by eliminating the idea that there were other ar
fifteens on the compound, which was just a lie. It
wasn't true. The extractor marked comparison in absence of a
firing pin test became enough for them to say that's
the gun, and since it was found close to the bodies,
the narrative was that he was able to walk up
to the agents, who were no longer a threat, and
execute them in cold blood, as supported by Myrtle Poor
(28:43):
Bears Affid Davids. But by this time Myrtle herself had
come forward.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
It was total bs. They terrified this one.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
They threatened to take her kids away, right to take
your kids away, which is also standard operating procedure, unfortunately
and police departments too often around the country.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
In pre trial proceedings, Leonard's attorney tried to admit Myrtle
Poor Bear as their witness, where she would testify as
to how she was treated and forced to lie. However,
the judge barred her from testifying and he cited mental incompetence.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
They got a different judge, a notoriously racist judge as
we understand it, a guy named Paul Benson.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
They moved a child from Saya Rapids up to Fargo,
North Dakota.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
There was an all white jury.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
I mean the program that set up was a program
meant to convict Leonard.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
And with the new narrative that this was a cold
blooded execution of two incapacitated FBI agents, self defense was
off the table and the judge would not allow any
testimony about the climate of violence and fear that led
up to June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
The judge would not let them make the statement. The
judge d a statement that Leonard Peltiers is on trial here,
not FBI, and that was a begin the type of
trial I was going to receive.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
And that's where we'll pause for the second of three
episodes of the wrongful conviction of Leonard Peltier and stick
around because there's still so much more to come.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
First, opportunity I got, I was able to escape.
Speaker 7 (30:16):
Kunstler learned of this teletype from Agent Hodge, which had
been suppressed.
Speaker 6 (30:22):
That damaged AR fifteen could produce a firing pentest.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
I don't know who pulled a trigger.
Speaker 6 (30:28):
Then how could the judge deny him the same defense
that Butler and Robberty.
Speaker 7 (30:32):
You have nothing that any of the dozens of lawyers
did accomplished a single damned thing for Leonard.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
You had on your side, Hope Francis, Archbishop to to Mother,
Teresa Nelson, Mandela Muhammad Ali, the Dali Lama Correta, Scott
King out rage against the machine, Tom Morello, Johnny Depp.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Regional director of the FBI. Don Edwards is the supporter
of mine. He said, I worked there. I know what
they did to Leonard.
Speaker 6 (31:02):
Clinton was told that South Dakota senator would lose the selection.
Speaker 5 (31:07):
If he pardoned Peltier. My anger kept me alive.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
I just made my mind up. You ain't going to
break me.
Speaker 7 (31:13):
Most of us never thought we would see the day
that Leonard would walk out of prison alive.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
The guard there said, ma'am, I've told you there's no
visitation today.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
And I said, the President has just granted clemency to
Leonard Peltier, and so I'm wondering if you could let
him know.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
It is just about Leonard Peltier. It's about the struggle.
It's about what they'd tried to do to us natives.
They tried to exterminate us.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Be sure to tune in for the final episode of
The Wrongful Conviction of Leonard Peltier. Thank you for listening
to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this and all
the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and ad
free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.
(32:01):
I want to thank our production team, Connor Hall and
Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler,
Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Kleiber. The music in this production
was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
Be sure to follow us across all social media platforms
at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can
also follow me on Instagram at It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful
(32:22):
Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and
association with Signal Company Number One. We have worked hard
to ensure that all facts reported in this show are accurate.
The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in
this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect
those of Lava for Good
Previously, on our coverage of Leonard Piltier, we talked about
the history that gave rise to Native activism like aim
the American Indian Movement in the nineteen sixties and seventies.
In addition to a focus on treaty violations, land reclamation,
and other issues, Aims supported the resistance to mining interest
in South Dakota, but they were met in force by
(00:26):
a federally funded paramilitary group called the Goon Squad that
perpetrated a reign of terror beginning in nineteen seventy two
on the Pine Ridge Reservation, leaving sixty unsolved murders in
its wake. So on June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy five,
when two plain close agents and unmarked vehicles drove onto
(00:48):
an AIME stronghold and drew their weapons, they were both
killed before the conveniently stationed SWAT teams could swoop in,
leaving the FEDS to figure out how they prosecuted someone
for defending their own community. This is wrongful conviction. You're
(01:12):
listening to wrongful conviction. You can listen to this and
all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and
ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on
Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction, where I'm once
(01:32):
again thrilled to be joined by Ben Bolan from one
of my favorite podcasts, Stuff They Don't Want You to Know.
As we continue now our coverage of the wrongful conviction
of Leonard Peltier.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
To help tell the story, we'll hear again from the
man himself, one of his co defendants, Dino Butler, as
well as one of his attorneys, Bruce Ellison. In addition,
we'll hear from one of his appellate attorneys, Ron Cooby.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
We'll pick up Leonard's story where we left off last
time on June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy five, when federal
forces had Jumping bull Ridge surrounded and it seemed like
an eagle was showing Leonard Peltier, Dino Butler, and Bob
Rogudoo to safety. They had made their way into a culvert,
one of those sometimes barely walkable drainage pipes that travel
(02:19):
under roadways. They had stopped there to pray, and, almost
as if by divine intervention, a surveillance plane left the area,
so they made their move, unsure of their fate or
of how many agents and goon squad members were still
up on the road.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
We had some young kids with us, and my responsibility
to make sure that they got safe. I sent them
ahead of me. I told them, go, I'll take up
the rear. And when they started shooting us, turn around
and start shooting back. And I'm not trying to make
myself and the hero. I was fighting for my life.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
And there were so many bullets flying around us. Man,
I just knew that somebody was going to get shot.
I could just feel the bullets buzzing around me. And
I ran and ran until I couldn't run no more,
and I just I thought, all hecky with it, and
I just lay down catch my breath. I was expecting
bullets to enter my body anytime.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
They were getting closer and closer to hit some of us,
so I would turn around to them, go keep going,
and I would start shooting back at them.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
I caught my breath, so I jumped up and I
started running again, and I couldn't see Leonard, I couldn't
see anybody, but I was praying that nobody was hurt.
And I ran until I couldn't run no more, and
I stopped, dropped on the ground. And I just kept
praying like that, no bullets entered my body. And I
got up again and I ran up.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
There was a little flat, so I finally made it
to the top, and here they come from the back
of the hill.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
So I turned around. I went back to the edge
of that platte, and there was a car coming up
the hill full of goons. I laid on the ground
and I emptied my gun out that car and it
turned around and ran back down the hill real fast.
And I couldn't believe we were all safe. None of
us got shot, no wounds or nothing. Man, when we
got up to the top of that hill, two brothers
(04:06):
come riding down on horseback and they said, Hey, what's
going on. What's happening, brothers?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I asked him, I said, what are you guys doing here?
He said, well, this is our people, this is our
war too. We are here to help you. And so
they led us out of there. These two young kids
came through a hail of bullet to come and help us.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
And that's a fact.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
The last time the FBI's horse heading out of there,
following those brothers on horseback, and Noah wounded lived up there,
and these brothers knew him and everything.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
He was the elder.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
That's where they took us. And he opened the door
and he says, I've been expecting you come on in.
So we all walked in there and he said, I
don't have much food. He said, but you're welcome to it.
And he said, you eat what you want.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I found out later that the whole reservation was praying
for us that we would get out of there. So
I believe it great spirit helped us get out of there.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
If we had done something wrong that day, we wouldn't
have got out of there. I mean that Diego helped us.
Those people help us. There was so much help.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
At this point, FBI agents examined the bodies and collected
bullets and casings, and they allegedly found one two twenty
three caliber shell casing in the agent's trunk, typical AMMO
for AR fifteen's. This becomes important later since none of
the agent's guns could fire that caliber. Agent Williams had
(05:33):
a handgun, which he allegedly fired only twice, while Agent
Kohler fired a handgun, three Toho eight rifle, and a
twelve gage shotgun once each.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Which sounds just as strange as the fact that these
two well trained agents only fired five shots total, just
five against an estimated one hundred and twenty five bullets
that were rained down on them by forty two different
shooters from the ranch, who, by the way, let's call
it what it is. They had every right to defend themselves,
(06:03):
especially when unidentified intruders had driven five hundred yards onto
private property and drawn their weapons, whether they had a
warrant or not.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
It was a day that should never have happened. Three
people unnecessarily died because of this government agenda.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
After the shooting, they wanted to course arrest somebody, and
they couldn't get nobody to talk to them.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
So the nationwide search starts.
Speaker 6 (06:32):
They even included at one point every Native man who
had ever been in combat in Indo, China on.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Their suspect list. Wow, they also included a four year old.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
While the FEDS tried to whittle down that suspect list,
AIM leadership, including Dennis Banks and Leonard Peltier, traveled out
west to gather financial support for whoever was about to
fight a tremendous legal battle, and one of their visits
was with the Godfather himself, Marlon fucking Brando.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
He was from Omaha, Nebraska. There's a big reservation right
on the border there, so his mother had some Native
blood in there. Marlon had been involved in a Native
struggle since the fifties. Dennis and I decided to go
to California and see some of our friends there to
see if to give us some financial help, and we
(07:26):
were successful in that. Marlon even gave us a mobile
home to take back with us to Pine Ridge. It
was literally a war scene.
Speaker 5 (07:35):
Now.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
You had FBI agents running around the fatigues, you had
helicopters flying all over, you had SWAT teams running around
the reservation.
Speaker 6 (07:45):
It was decided that they were going to break the
American indew movement. They were going to do it one
way or another. They were going to go as for
as they could with kind of insurgency. Helicopters, armored cars,
a lot of heavy weaponry being brought into Pine Ridge
and throughout the reservation. Over over the days, searches of homes,
(08:05):
terrorizing the people.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
They were threatening them, especially the kids. Somebody's going to
end up killing them because they were there. Something was
going to happen to their families. And they still couldn't
get nobody to talk to them because nobody knew nothing.
I dies, but nobody's going to talk to them anyway.
Speaker 6 (08:22):
The local people felt tremendous love and support towards the resistance.
But to counter that, you want to terrorize people so
that they don't help, or maybe they inform as an
attorney with the who they need Offense Committee. I was
on the ground right after the firefight Oglala. I was
still studying for the bar at that time, and if
(08:44):
Offense Comittee had a little hut where some of us
stayed overnight, and we got a call that there had
been a goon attack and we went probably equivalent about
three city blocks over to this house and you could
still see the dust in the air, and you could
smell courtite, You could see the terror and the fear.
That was a woman and a couple of kids, And
these are kind of unique experiences for a young Jewish
(09:06):
kid out of New York.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
But Bruce quickly got acquainted with the situation and he
told us about an AIM member named Byron Deserso. Deserts's
father read an underground newspaper that was critical of the
tribal chairman Dick Wilson and his federally funded pairamilitary group,
the Goon Squad, which had attacked Byron's friends.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
They started shooting at a young couple as they got
out of their car. The person who defended himself with
a single shot twenty two against semioma and automatic weapons
was arrested in his home for disorderly conduct. So Byron
was going there to see how he can help out.
And Byron was on his way home in Womblee and
a caravan of goons passed by and they riddled the
(09:49):
car with bullets and they killed Byron Breccacy. The other
three people in the car were not hurt and as
a winning defense cann't remember. We were asked to go
down and to investigate. And the first thing that we
were met with in the streets of Wombli, we were
surrounded by a SWAT team which questioned us at gunpoint.
(10:09):
But it was part of that fear there. They had
already destroyed two homes by fire bombing them. They had
shot up about a half a dozen homes.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Well, we started to protect the people again because of
all the chaos and terrorism they were committing against the
local citizens.
Speaker 6 (10:26):
There, and you know, staying overnight in that community and
watching the elders get together and give a warning to
the goons. You get out the next day by noon,
or we're going to come and take you out. Because
the government wasn't taking them out.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
It appears that Leonard's participation in resisting this continued reign
of terror put a target on his back.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Cornypi documents.
Speaker 6 (10:48):
They decided that Leonard had shot the agents two and
a half weeks after the firefight. And they made this
conclusion because they say they found some of his fingerprints
on some items that were in the camp area about
quarter from mile away from the scene.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Which says exactly nothing.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
But that was where they started from. And then they
went and they targeted four people Leonard, Dino Butler, Bob
Robberdew and Jimmy Eagle.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Jimmy Eagle, I wasn't even in the state. It was
on a Wyoming reservation. We didn't understand why we were indicted,
why we were being accused, because we don't know who
the real shooters are.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
They caught up with Dino Butler first.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
I was arrested in Rosebud and I was taking to Pierce,
South Dakota. I was put in jail there, Dad two
holding tanks, one tank where they put all the goons
and the other tank of where they put all the
AIM members.
Speaker 6 (11:45):
So first they captured Dino Butler in Rosebud and then
Bob Robberdy down in Kansas.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
In September nineteen seventy five, Bob Robadu and two other
AM members, Michael Anderson and Norman Charles, were traveling through Wichita,
Kansas in Leonards station wagon when either ammunition or an
explosive went off in the back of the vehicle, and
authorities found an AR fifteen inside the burning wreck, which
was then taken for comparison to the two twenty three
(12:11):
shellcasing allegedly found an Asian Kohler's trunk, and we'll hear
more about that later. But meanwhile they put pressure on Bob, Mike,
Norman as well as the people back on Pine Ridge
and continued to pursue both Jimmy Eagle and Leonard Peltier.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
They offered people money, cattle, They offered people land on
our own reservation. How the hell do you got a
right to offer us land on our own reservation to
become an informant, But the people said, no, we're not
going to do this to Leonard, you can kiss our ass.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
We're not going to do it.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
We're not going to get up there and make false
statements against him. So I was protected by the people,
but they were still continuing to do this for.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
Quite a while.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
And there is a treaty among the United States and
Canada that people can cross that border anytime they want.
So that's when the elders are telling me that I
should go to Canada and we could find out what
kind of evidence they got.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
According to the extradition agreement between the United States and Canada,
the authorities must produce convincing evidence of guilt for Canada
to extradite. So Leonard left for Canada in Marlon Brando's
motor home with Dennis Banks as well as with two
other individuals, and they made it to Oregon. Then they
(13:30):
were pulled over on November fourteenth, nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
We were traveling down the highway and this cop pulls
us over, and I think you jumped the gun because
right down the road they had a whole road blocks
and everything else set up, but just cop pulled us over.
Like I said, I think it was premature. He started
shooting and I tried to draw them shooting away from
camouting her kids. They were all laying on the ground
(13:56):
and there was cop screaming and yelling and all.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
This other shit.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
It so we've split up and we've shaped I did
get shot there still to this day have laded my body.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
Where were you shot Leonard in the back? That's a miracle.
If you weren't killed or paralyzed. You can't go to
a hospital.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
You can't go to hospital. And I'm wounded. Some of
the supporters that opened their homes for me, and so
I had a doctor comment, we're trying to get the
bullet out of my shoulder. And from there I went
in a state with various people. I think it was
at least six months.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
During which time Leonard's name went to the top of
the FBI's most wanted list before he went to Canada,
where he was picked up by the Royal Canadian Mounted
Police in Hinton, Alberta in February nineteen seventy six, and
then he was transported to the much less Native friendly
province of British Columbia.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
I went before a very conservative judge who was not
my friend, not Indians, native people's friends. It was quite
obvious even he said it was not going to turn
me back to the United States. He said, there is
no evidence. I can't just turn this man over. They
(15:23):
continued to develop false evidence. They created a false witness.
I never met her in my life, but she was
claiming she was my girlfriend and she was an eyewitness.
Speaker 7 (15:34):
And the FBI used what they knew to be a
perjured affidavit in order to obtain his extradition from Canada.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
This is one of Leonard's appellot attorneys, Ron Cooby. He's
explaining how the FBI found a woman named Mirgal poor Bear,
who gave three affidavits. Her first, which was initially hidden,
said that Leonard had confessed to her after the fact,
and then poor Bear swore two more affidavits saying that
she was an eye witness.
Speaker 7 (16:06):
Myrtle poor Bear, who was deeply psychotic, made a number
of different affidavids till she satisfied the FBI, and she
said she actually witnessed Leonard Pilteer shoot the agent's at
close range because she was there. Now everybody knew that
Myrtle poor Bear was nowhere near the scene of this.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
The people in the community stated out right that he
was the faith.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
They don't know her.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
They knew I was never a winner or not because
I had a girl from there. I had two kids there.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
And by the way, when murder Poor Bear was Leonard
Belteer's girlfriend, she was also a local aim leader's girlfriend
by the name of Dick Marshall, and later she claimed
that Dick Marshall confessed to her to killing a goon.
Speaker 7 (16:49):
Ancillary to that perjured Affid David was an Affid David
from firearms expert Evan Hodge that the shell case that
was found in the agent's car had extractor marks on it.
Extractor mark comparisons are not an exact science, unlike say,
(17:11):
firing pin comparisons.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
When a semi automatic weapon is fired, the firing pin
springs forward through the breach face behind the bullet. It
strikes the bullet primer, a small explosive that ignites the
propellant gunpowder, and this creates enough high pressure gas to
send both the projectile forward from its casing down the
barrel and sliding the casing back against the breach face
(17:36):
where it's grabbed by the extractor. This extractor slides the
casing further back where it's hit by the ejector and
then flies out an opening on the right side of
the gut.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Each movement leaves striations, and each machine part leaves marks
on the casing, which can then be compared to other
casings produced by test firing a suspect weapon, and really
all firearm analysis is best suited for excluding a firearm
rather than actually making definitive matches. However, the firing pin
(18:12):
test provides the most accurate reading, and it improved from
two D microscopic images in nineteen seventy five to the
three D imaging available by twenty ten, delivering up to
ninety eight point eight percent accuracy, Whereas extractor marks are
described as being able to identify class characteristics like the
make and model, but they have no value in identifying
(18:34):
the individual weapon well. Extractor marks were the subject of
Evan Hodge's Affidavid, which, along with Myrtle Poor bears Affidavid
one extradition. So while Leonard's team appealed the extradition and
Jimmy Eagle hadn't even been located yet, Dino and Bob
went to trial in July of nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
What do I went on trial and see the rapids
the FBI sent a team and they just terrorized those
people and see the rapids that they said that they
had two A members. I killed two fbis. No one
should go out alone by themselves. Don't leave your cars unlock.
They told them that there would be snipers up on
buildings and everything. There's going to be Dog soldiers terrorizing
(19:18):
the people and trying to set us free and all.
I mean, they really done a job on those people
before our trial.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
The term Dog Soldiers refers to a militaristic band of
the Cheyenne Nation dating back to the eighteen thirties. They
served as an effective bulwark against western expansion in present
day Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, and Wyoming.
Speaker 6 (19:39):
It was all about creating a climate of fear and terror.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
When my parents, our defense team came to see the rapids,
my mother and father, my little brother, no one would
take them in. Finally John Tredell and his group came
in and they started making speeches and talking to these people,
and the doors opened up, the church open up, and
they have some land to our people to set up
their camps there, and my mom and dad got a
(20:05):
hotel room. I mean, it was a beautiful what happened there.
Without those people, we would have probably been convicted there.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So the FBI's jurypool poisoning had been neutralized for civil
rights attorney William Kunstler to present the self defense theory,
while the prosecution now had to prove their narrative.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
The government's theory in about the Robberty trial was that
this was a pre planned ambush, and they argued that
and tried to assert it, and it kind of blew
up on their face in the middle of the trial.
It just became so ludicrous.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Initially, this narrative was built in part on Myrtle Poor
Bears affidavits, the ones which she also said that she
witnessed this group allegedly planning to lure agents into the
compound to be ambushed, but soon after the extradition proceedings,
she stopped cooperating with the FEDS. The FEDS then had
(21:00):
had to produce new testimony to assert that Bob and
Dino were part of some premeditated act.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
One of the things that the FBI was very successful
at was going into jails and finding people who were
in the same jail, maybe as a person who they
were targeting, and suddenly the targeted person would.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Confess them, of course, so how mus to this day,
that's right.
Speaker 6 (21:21):
And the FBI particularly liked to go to people who
are accused of breaking in homes.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
And raping women, four children, or elders.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
In this case, they found a man that was facing
extradition to Texas, where the Texas Rangers sent word that
if they get him back there, he's not going to
survive very long.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
His name was Vern Harper. He said that I confessed
everything to him in the jails, and the agreement that
he made with the government is that he would testify
against us if they would see that the charges in
Texas against him were dismissed.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
And you saw how much do you know, talked after
all these years. Usually people when they made denal Butler,
they might not hear him say a word for two weeks.
But nevertheless, that night those two became such good friends
that Dino confessed to not only being involved in killing
the agents, but also trying to assassinate a federal judge
in Rapid City.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
But Vern Harper was exposed for what he had stood
to gain, and then another witness, Wilford Draper, admitted that
he'd changed his story upon instruction from the FBI. Nonetheless,
Draper put an AR fifteen in Leonard's hands, as did
Norman Brown, who received immunity and later recanted. Brown placed
Bob Dino and Leonard near the agent's car with an
(22:37):
AR fifteen, but at this point the AR fifteen from
the car fire in Wichitah was only tacitly linked to
the two twenty three casing bound in Asian Kohler's car.
After all, there were other AR fifteens on Jumping Bull Ranch.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
In the public robbery trial, they presented testimony to basically
this weapon, this damaged AR fifteen that was found, and
witchta that they could not conclusively state that that weapon
had been used to fire at the agents because they
couldn't do a firing pin test on what was left
of this rifle, and it was a mess except for
(23:15):
what looked like a brand new bolt mechanism when we
saw it.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
The brand new bolt mechanism is important to remember for later,
but for now, there was no known firing pin test. Therefore,
this was a case of self defense. It's a case
where the FEDS thought they were in pursuit of Jimmy
Eagle in a red pickup truck and drove on to
the compound. A firefight started, and Robadu and Butler arrived
(23:39):
after the fact, unsure who they were exchanging fire with,
and that scenario wasn't exactly out of ordinary for them.
At this time, we.
Speaker 6 (23:49):
Were able to present members of the community, the people
of Pine Ridge, who came in and talked to the jury.
Helped them to understand what life was like during what
was regarded as the Reign of Terror, scores of people
being killed, people being kept on the floors of their
(24:10):
homes while bullets went through the walls. Clarence Kelly, the
FBI director at the time, we subpoened him and put
him on the witness stand and he admitted that everyone
has the right to defend themselves and it doesn't matter
who the aggressor is, and he even said even if
it's an FBI agent. And the jury became convinced that
(24:32):
Dino Butler and Bob Robert and Leonard had he been
on trial with them, were acting in self defense that
day in whoever was responsible for the killing of the
deaths of the agents.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Everybody knew that this was an American Indian Movement stronghold,
and they came right onto where the cars were found.
If they did that to a white community, they would
have been shot too. We were protectling in our homes
like any other American has the right to do, and
they got acquitted. The jury to all white jury Christians,
(25:09):
conservative juries said those Indians have the same rights as
we do to protect their homes, to protect their families and.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
Their children and everything else.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
That's why they were acquitted.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
The acquittals happened in seedar rapids. The jurors, some of
them in post trial interviews said by the way they
were treated, said they came away from the trial terrified
that they were going to face reprisals from the FBI
and the US marshalls.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
After I got out of jail, I came back to
Oregon at my mother and father's house in Cutler City.
One night, meing Neelock decided to go up to town
and we met my cousin in the bar there just
playing pool. And while we were there, this one guy
and one white guy. He came over to our table
(26:07):
and he started talking about these two FBI agans that
were killed, and he was saying how they deserved that
and all this and that. My cousin said, well, what
the hell are you talking about? And he said, get
the hell out of here. I don't know if he
was a FBI Asian or not, but he left. And
I had an uncle that lived about two blocks from
where we were at. My mom and dad lived about
(26:29):
a mile from where we were at, and we were
on foot, so I told Neila, let's walk up to
my uncle's place and we'll stay there tonight. So we
did that. Next morning, my little brother came up there
and told us that the FBI had raised at my
mom and dad's house. And he said when he woke up,
an FBI Asian was pointing a pistol at his head
and says, where's your fucking brother at. And when they
(26:51):
found out we weren't there, Mom, she said, one of
those Asians walked over to her and they told her,
you know, we may not have got him this time,
we will get him.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
We will get him.
Speaker 6 (27:02):
After the Butler robbery trial, the government kind of freaked
out and they decide that they're going to have a
meeting in Washington, DC at FBI headquarters. Prosecutors are their
the FBI's the air, and they either have to decide
that the agents followed Jimmy Eagle into the jumping boat compound,
which is what the deceased agents transmitted they were doing.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
Or they had to say.
Speaker 6 (27:27):
Jimmy Eagle was never there, and really it was Leonard
Peltier who was the killer.
Speaker 7 (27:32):
Somebody had to pay, and that somebody was going to
be Leonard Peltier. He was the last one available to them.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
So they made a decision to dismiss the charges against
Jimmy Eagle and in their words, put the full prosecutive
weight of the federal government to be directed.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
Against Leonard Peltier.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
So they decide that they have to if they're going
to win, they have to prove that Leonard did it.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Because Dino and Robert were able to prove that it
was self defense, they changed the whole story and said
that this was actually a cold blooded execution.
Speaker 6 (28:06):
Then suddenly this damaged day R fifteen that was found
in Wichita, which they never attributed to Leonard in any way.
That weapon had to have been the one that was
used to kill the agents, And they found the showcase
and that was a couple of feet away in the
open trunk, and therefore Leonard Muster did it.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
And by eliminating the idea that there were other ar
fifteens on the compound, which was just a lie. It
wasn't true. The extractor marked comparison in absence of a
firing pin test became enough for them to say that's
the gun, and since it was found close to the bodies,
the narrative was that he was able to walk up
to the agents, who were no longer a threat, and
execute them in cold blood, as supported by Myrtle Poor
(28:43):
Bears Affid Davids. But by this time Myrtle herself had
come forward.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
It was total bs. They terrified this one.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
They threatened to take her kids away, right to take
your kids away, which is also standard operating procedure, unfortunately
and police departments too often around the country.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
In pre trial proceedings, Leonard's attorney tried to admit Myrtle
Poor Bear as their witness, where she would testify as
to how she was treated and forced to lie. However,
the judge barred her from testifying and he cited mental incompetence.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
They got a different judge, a notoriously racist judge as
we understand it, a guy named Paul Benson.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
They moved a child from Saya Rapids up to Fargo,
North Dakota.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
There was an all white jury.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
I mean the program that set up was a program
meant to convict Leonard.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
And with the new narrative that this was a cold
blooded execution of two incapacitated FBI agents, self defense was
off the table and the judge would not allow any
testimony about the climate of violence and fear that led
up to June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
The judge would not let them make the statement. The
judge d a statement that Leonard Peltiers is on trial here,
not FBI, and that was a begin the type of
trial I was going to receive.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
And that's where we'll pause for the second of three
episodes of the wrongful conviction of Leonard Peltier and stick
around because there's still so much more to come.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
First, opportunity I got, I was able to escape.
Speaker 7 (30:16):
Kunstler learned of this teletype from Agent Hodge, which had
been suppressed.
Speaker 6 (30:22):
That damaged AR fifteen could produce a firing pentest.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
I don't know who pulled a trigger.
Speaker 6 (30:28):
Then how could the judge deny him the same defense
that Butler and Robberty.
Speaker 7 (30:32):
You have nothing that any of the dozens of lawyers
did accomplished a single damned thing for Leonard.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
You had on your side, Hope Francis, Archbishop to to Mother,
Teresa Nelson, Mandela Muhammad Ali, the Dali Lama Correta, Scott
King out rage against the machine, Tom Morello, Johnny Depp.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Regional director of the FBI. Don Edwards is the supporter
of mine. He said, I worked there. I know what
they did to Leonard.
Speaker 6 (31:02):
Clinton was told that South Dakota senator would lose the selection.
Speaker 5 (31:07):
If he pardoned Peltier. My anger kept me alive.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
I just made my mind up. You ain't going to
break me.
Speaker 7 (31:13):
Most of us never thought we would see the day
that Leonard would walk out of prison alive.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
The guard there said, ma'am, I've told you there's no
visitation today.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
And I said, the President has just granted clemency to
Leonard Peltier, and so I'm wondering if you could let
him know.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
It is just about Leonard Peltier. It's about the struggle.
It's about what they'd tried to do to us natives.
They tried to exterminate us.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Be sure to tune in for the final episode of
The Wrongful Conviction of Leonard Peltier. Thank you for listening
to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this and all
the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and ad
free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.
(32:01):
I want to thank our production team, Connor Hall and
Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler,
Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Kleiber. The music in this production
was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
Be sure to follow us across all social media platforms
at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can
also follow me on Instagram at It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful
(32:22):
Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and
association with Signal Company Number One. We have worked hard
to ensure that all facts reported in this show are accurate.
The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in
this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect
those of Lava for Good
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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